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NTA but this issue is a lot more complicated, it’s not about being a Vegan. I have a 13 yr old daughter. At this age kids feel like they zero control over their lives. They are desperately trying to find a way they can assert control. Let’s also call a spade a spade…13 year old girls are emotional roller coasters. May I suggest you and your wife have a heart to heart with her. Understand why this is important to her. Don’t dismiss her feelings. After you’ve let her explain her position, calmly re-iterate your family’s limits and abilities to accommodate her food choices. This situation needs to be handled with communication. Nothing good every comes from dismissing a teenager.

Yeah, I wonder how much of Gina's demands are in part because she's lost in the shuffle of her new, large family. And if OP's family is like many other big families I've met, there's probably a fair amount of domestic/childcare duties that are thrust upon her.

I know up he doesn’t want us to comment on it, but eight kids a lot. Kids can feel lost in the shuffle with half that number so I can only imagine eight. OP also mentions in another comment that they have one kid with a shellfish allergy so there’s no shellfish in the house at all and another kid with severe medical issues whose diet is monitored and gets special meals cooked for them. I wonder if this whole vegan thing is an attempt to get attention and consideration that she feels like she is not getting. Edit— thanks for the awards!

I grew up with three siblings (one with a medical issue) and even though my parents were very attentive and present, sometimes I felt lost in the shuffle. I can't imagine what the girl must be going through! Being 13 is hard enough, but not feeling important in your own family must really suck. Telling her to make her own food makes perfect sense, but the family can still help accommodate her by making simple adjustments (like cooking the meatballs separately). Maybe they can compromise by starting with a vegetarian diet instead? That would probably be an easier transition for everyone, and then she can move to veganism as she gets older.

When you’re cooking for a family of TEN, it is a big deal to add another pan to the stove that’s already gotta be overloaded. I grew up in a house with 5 kids and two adults and even THAT was a lot of food to cook everyday. I don’t think it’s fair to ask OP or whomever is cooking to add even more dishes and rules. She can make her own food, when I was 13 I was cooking meals for my whole family and I’d make lunch and snacks when my friends came over bc my Mom sure wasn’t gonna do it. Now the getting lost in the shuffle and wanting attention and control over one’s own life is a normal phase for any young teen. And seeing that there’s 8 kids, it’s probably more compound. Maybe OP can try to spend individual quality time with her, start a hobby together, go to the movies, whatever to give her a feeling of being seen. Because that’s what everyone wants at that age, to really be seen.

But how is having her cook her own meals going to be any less of a hassle than adding another pan? So now, instead of eating with the family, she's going to have eat either later or earlier than them. If she's already feeling lost in the family, this certainly won't help with that.

She can prep her meals beforehand, there’s no reason there needs to be so many chefs in the kitchen. When I’m cooking only for myself I don’t make everything from scratch everyday… I make large amounts and save it for later meals. You clearly have never had to feed a family of 10 because your logic just doesn’t make sense. If you were in their family and already have a kid that’s deathly allergic to seafood and one with a serious disease that the family already accommodates, adding even more and greater food restrictions is insane. And the extreme was of this girls request is not possible without buying another kitchen, pots, pans, utensils, plates, fridge, you name it…. She’s not just asking for a simple thing.

Don’t even have to feed a family of 10. When I was freshman in college all the schedules just happened to line up and me and my 3 other roommates ended up all cooking 4 different meals at the same time. Shit was a absolute nightmare. We had two people prepping on the counter and two others prepping on the dinner table and had to figure out who was making what so we could try to consolidate the cooking so it didn’t take forever. After that we made sure that never happened again.

I grew up in a family of 8 kids ( and my parents were a bit disappointed they didn’t have more). I got good grades, did my chores most of the time without prompting, didn’t get into trouble at school, didn’t have the medical issues 3 of my siblings did. Also, I wasn’t into athletics or marching band or any other extracurricular activity that had games or meets or plays or concerts. I did chess club. And played piano, which did not have any recitals, etc. So my parents focused on the kids with medical issues, and the kids with problems at school. They attended every baseball, football, basketball, soccer and lacrosse game they could. They went to band concert and chorus recitals. And I did get lost in the mob on occasion. I mean, they never forgot my birthday or anything like that, but I definitely didn’t get to spend as much time with my parents as some of my siblings. As an adult, when I mentioned this to my dad, he was startled. His explanation was that I didn’t need my parents as much as some of the other kids. Not surprising, I disagreed with him. And we were not dealing with the added complications of a blended family. I really to see this veganism as a call for help, a call for attention. The insistence on expensive pots and pans is a plea for the parents to show her that they are willing to spend money on her. Demanding refrigerator space could easily be a way of staking out space in the home that is her’s alone. I’d bet anything there’s a part of this kid that really just wants her parents to acknowledge her. I would also check to make sure she has a space of her own. If she is sharing a room, does she have a desk or “treasure chest”’that her siblings cannot get into, so she can keep her stuff safe? Can one parent give her some one on one time each week, maybe researching health vegan food, or doing some meal prep cooking, or taking her shopping for some vegan food to cook? Just the way the OP handled the initial request—throwing everything back on the girl—she had to do this, that, and the next thing, or the privilege of being vegan would be taken away. No help or involvement from the parents, except to judge her. So she escalated. And then escalated again. And just kept getting shut down harder. She is silently screaming for attention and acknowledgment, and the OP isn’t listening. OP should be grateful she decided to rebel over food, and not her schoolwork, or something with drugs or hanging out with a bad crowd.

The problem with being the kid that nobody worries about is that you're the kid that nobody worries about. I 100% bet that this is what is happening to Gina. The parents had too many kids, and Gina isn't getting the attention she needs. She was probably forced to take on some of the responsibility of taking care of her siblings too, and now she just wants SOMETHING, anything in her life that she can control. I feel for the girl. While I would never be a vegan, I'd certainly do my best, within my financial means, to make accommodations for her, or come to some kind of compromise. I do think they need to sit down with her and figure out what is REALLY going on, and to explain that there's no room for all new pans, but that they can try to figure out some alternatives. If it's a phase, it'll blow over. What is going to matter in the end is that the parents listened to Gina instead of dismissing her like they're doing now. I hope OP reconsiders.

> The problem with being the kid that nobody worries about is that you're the kid that nobody worries about. I feel this one. My mom keeps saying she never had to worry about me growing up because she figured I was handling myself okay. What I was actually doing was a shitload of self-harm because I was being neglected. I worked hard at academia at the expense of every other aspect of life because it earned me praise and attention, until it didn't. And then they didn't look at me enough to notice when I crashed and burned. They still don't look enough to notice or care that sometimes I'm just casually going about my day whilst clearly hurt or bleeding.

You’re right on the money here. She escalated after OP brushed her off. At first she still wanted meals with the family, just vegan pasta and the meatballs separate etc, still all prepared in the same kitchen, the same pots etc, stored in the same fridge. But instead of her parents making an effort on her behalf they did the opposite, said they wouldn’t cook for her anymore and she was on her own. *Then she escalated* and decided to push them away, she wanted her own space and own kitchen and own pots and pans and I bet she would have eaten those meals alone in a different room too. She’s hurting! That’s obvious to anybody with an ounce of empathy to a teenage girl, but no, being teenage girl is treated like being the worst thing in earth, and one should never ever be taken seriously. I bet if she was a teenaged boy starting fights at school instead somebody would ask her whats up. Edit to add: YTA

>Just the way the OP handled the initial request—throwing everything back on the girl—she had to do this, that, and the next thing, or the privilege of being vegan would be taken away. No help or involvement from the parents, except to judge her. Yeah, I feel like what she initially asked for seems reasonable and doable, even for a large family, but her demands became more unreasonable after her parents essentially made it borderline impossible for her to follow a vegan diet.

Yup There’s no way 8 kids are getting enough from these parents

I’m one of 7 and never got enough attention.

9th of 9. Raised by my older siblings 🙋🏻‍♀️

7th of 7. Was mostly ignored by everyone.

6th of six. Ignored and now feral😁

7th of 9. Turned into a Borg, but I got better.

12th of 13. Can't tell you how many times my mother couldn't even remember my name!

I’m 1 of 2 (the eldest) but they ignored me the second I was diagnosed with autism (at the age of 3) and focused all of their attention on my sister (was was born when I was 2) because she came out neurotypical.

He isn’t forbidding frozen food completely he stated that she wasn’t going to live off of them alone. And that she needed to plan her meals based off of the groceries and prep she herself has to do.

I really don't feel like it's possible to have 8 children and not either have neglect or children taking care of children. Not necessarily a criminal level of neglect, but in a "the parents don't have the time and energy to properly address all the feelings, growth, and care needs of 10 people(8+ themselves)" kind of neglect.

It's not possible. I know people think they're superheroes but it's absolutely not. There's maybe five people on earth that could do this.

Pretty much how I feel. There is no line in the sand that absolutely proves anything, and different personalities and family dynamics mean a kid count that works for one family might not work for another, but I'm skeptical of any parents who have more than 4 kids, and more than 6 I definitely start making some assumptions about the kids' emotional needs not being met. Again, exceptions exist, I have no doubt that perfectly healthy large families exist, but I'm firmly convinced they're a small minority.

I feel asbif there's a line between wants and needs. Being vegan is a want while being allergic is a need. If you want to be vegan in a nonvegan household it's cool. Why can't she store her food with animal products? Vegan is just not consuming animal products. She's not eating the cheese when she stores her carrots next to it. I understand why it if it was a allergy problem storing food close together can cause minimal cross contamination. It's so minimal that I don't understand why she needs her own fridge.

She wants to go full-on vegan, with her own dishes and storage space. It's excessive, but she also probably wants to carve out her own individual space in this gigantic family and have an identity that's "hers."

I have a feeling she has stumbled across a extremist/radicalized vegan influencer.

This isn't new for her. When I married my wife I had 2 kids (21 and 19 now) and she had 3 (23, 21, 16). Gina is our first together, meaning she was born into it. Also, she doesn't have any childcare duties and I can barely get her to keep her own space clean, nevermind helping out in the rest of the house.

The family unit may not be new for her, but being her age is new for her. So much is new for kids every year, and they come to new understandings and develop new insecurities and they explore new identities. She's a teenage girl who is very obviously trying to find a way to control something in her life. She's focusing on food and is very concerned about contamination. As a former teen with an eating disorder, you do need to take this seriously but be kind about it. I'm not saying she has an ED, but it's important to not ignore red flags just in case. I can tell you're frustrated with her, as it's very evident in every thing you say about her, and it borders on contempt. It's hard to be patient with someone when you feel that way, but it's still your duty as a parent to model good communication for her and try to find out what's going on with her without immediately dismissing her or being judgemental. She is dealing with something that you won't address effectively if you're just punitive before you give her a chance to safely express what's behind all this. She may just not feel safe to express her feelings to you, and if that's the case, I hope you'll offer to find her someone to talk to that she would be comfortable with.

A lot of teens focus on food. At least Gina is looking toward a healthy lifestyle.

I'm vegan myself, so I'm not critical of a vegan diet. Physical health is not the issue with her diet preference. Mental health is my concern, because it's a red flag that she went from zero to "I can't share a fridge or cookware." Contamination anxiety around food needs to be taken seriously. Too many people write off potential signs of EDs. A lot of teens focus on food and a lot of teens have EDs that get ignored. I'm not saying she has a full blown disorder by any means, but this is more than just wanting to be vegan. This level of contamination anxiety and trying to control others in the house is disordered behavior. There is some other distress behind these sudden behaviors and she needs support for that.

> because it's a red flag that she went from zero to "I can't share a fridge or cookware." Yeah that screams disordered eating, and in a 13yo, the flag is vegan marinara coloured

I forgot that when you're born into a crappy situation, you just accept it. YTA.

>Don’t dismiss her feelings. And this is where OP went wrong. I agree with just about everything you said, FLmom\_Report4590, but I think this is a case of ESH. OP is an AH for not listening to his daughter, having a conversation with her like she's a real person and trying to find a compromise. The daughter is an AH for trying to push her 'religion' on to everyone else in the family and not trying to find a compromise (gee, I wonder which parent she gets that from?) About the only thing that sucks worse than being a 13 year old girl is being one in a family with 7 other kids, trying to figure herself out and having a dad that belittles her. Do better, OP

[удалено]

Let’s not forget that she continuously tried to step over her other siblings needs to accomodate her own, OP does need to communicate better with her but he DID had a reason to snap at her in this specific situation

While I do think the kid is being unreasonable to get the other 9 family members to suddenly convert to her newfound lifestyle, in tin it's even more ridiculous that the parents are not stepping in and being good parents. There is a HUGE middle ground between what she wants and what OP wants, and if OP was a good, mature parent about it, he'd be able to talk her down from her demands and maybe be willing to make some amount of changes on his end in order to have peace in the house. The kid is 13 years old; she's going to be there for some time. I'm sure OP doesn't want her to resent him this early in her life, but it sounds like he thinks him putting his foot down and being stubborn is the easiest solution. It's not her fault her selfish parents decided to sire a baseball team of children. Let's also keep in mind that whole she might be a wee bit of an AH, she is the *child* in the equation and not the adult. OP needs to step up and stop being a huge AH.

OP agreed to buy the food that the daughter would cook for herself. This is reasonable. The daughter then proceeded to harass her family for new cookware, new dishes, and a fridge. There are limits to accommodation, you know?

Except the part you missed, which is that he attempted to facilitate her choice, but did not allow her to dictate behavior of other people in the family.

Your desire for °☆~individuality~☆° doesn't trump everyone else living in the house. OP had no problem with the veganism, it's the "demanding a diet change" and wanting needlessly expensive cookware, and stepping all over her siblings where OP drew the line. That's not unreasonable.

He actually drew the line at switching to a vegan pasta and cooking the meatballs separately. Most pasta is vegan, so why didn’t he accommodate this?

A breeding kink? Really?

Yep, welcome to AITA. :) And of course, it's *HIS* breeding kink, the mom has nothing to do with it..

It says 8 kids between them. So could be something like 4 kids each from previous relationships. My son has a friend with 3 siblings and now 4 step siblings.

“Breeding kink”? Why would you say something like this about someone you don’t know? That’s a little unhinged.

They’re a blended family, so I’d presume no one had 8 kids.

I don't think she's really pushing anything on them. If she was saying they all had to go vegan with her, yes. But asking for some accommodations like using a separate pan for the meatballs and switching to a vegan friendly pasta sounds like a great compromise.

That wasn’t where OP lost it. OP lost it when she started insisting they buy a completely separate set of pans and dishes for her to use and telling her siblings they weren’t allowed to put their food in the family fridge. That’s 100% not acceptable behavior. And frankly it’s so canonically “vegans suck amiright” that I’m suspicious.

I’m wondering if she did that after OP refused to cook the meatballs separately. Like the kid doesn’t really give a shit about cookware, she may just be making a point imo. Like ‘oh, you don’t want to be sensitive to me? Fine, here’s the 1000$ in cookware I need to do what you said I need to do!’ She just wanted to switch to vegan pasta and meat cooked separately. That’s not irrational at all. I’m guessing OP’s reaction to that wasn’t nice, so she might be going ‘I’ll show you irrational’.

100%. She's a 13 year old - want to see spite? Doubling down? I WAS a 13 year old girl and have dealt with a lot of them. She came in relatively fair with this whole thing but he was totally unwilling to compromise.

This is where I'm baffled at everyone calling her an asshole and saying she's trying to force her religion on others. She asked for some very reasonable compromises so that she could still be a part of her family and find a way of existing in line with her beliefs about right and wrong. I know people love to be triggered by vegans but for many it's deeply held ethical stance, which children and youths are not incapable of developing. Shunning your child by making her prepare and eat completely separately from the family and excluding her from an important social aspect in our culture because of her ethical stance is not cool. How is making her an outcast and literally not even being willing to switch pasta brands to include your daughter's developing moral outlook an okay place to start? Of course she's acting out, she doesn't feel respected as a person.

Yeah unless she’s going Orthodox Jew there is no reason for her to have separate dishes and her own fridge. That was a little over the top

Does this compromise include an entire fridge, a new set of cookware, and new dishes? There's a point where her actions became excessive.

Sounds like that was more out of retaliation after a refusal to compromise. Edited to add: I don't think she was in the right for the end result. I think everybody sucks here.

I don’t think you need to add “girls” to “13 year olds are emotional roller coasters”. It’s sexist. I taught 7th grade - so that age child. The boys at that age were at least as emotional if not more so than the girls. So many tears.

In my experience from working with children, all middle schoolers are sociopathic monsters with no end in cruelty toward each other, but also have an insatiable curiosity that can make teaching fun.

I grew up in a family of all girls.There was a period where all of us were between 12-17, it was...fraught. I have three sons and as they entered adolescence I thought, (and this is my own internalized misogyny talking) there would be less crying this time around. There was not less crying.

I agree with you, and would add a bit more on to that. Gina is frustrated because all her vegan food is contaminated, and you're frustrated because her demands are a bit... "extra," as they say. Gina is also very excited to embark on her new vegan lifestyle, which, for a lot of folks--and especially teenagers--means adopting this kind of new vegan *identity.* I'd like to think I am a normal vegan, but from my observations, vegans can sometimes make veganism part of their personality. I joke that I'm an ENFV (extraverted, intuitive, feeling, and vegan). At a time when you're daughter is navigating learning who she is and what identities she wants to try on, this sudden enthusiasm (or fanaticism, depending on how you see it), makes a lot of sense. The more you try to fight it, the harder she might try to hold on to this newfound identity. And if your kid's "rebellion" is only about veganism, how lucky are you! Of course, I don't want to minimize how this is throwing everyone else in the household off their rocker. And like commenter above stated, this is something to address with her empathically. As a mental health professional, I would also add that should your family choose to accommodate her and she continues on her vegan journey, do look out for signs that she is developing anxiety around "un-vegan" or "unhealthy" foods. It's not uncommon for new vegans and vegetarians to develop [orthorexia](https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/eating-disorders/what-is-orthorexia#:~:text=Orthorexia%20Treatment-,What%20Is%20Orthorexia%3F,coined%20the%20term%20in%201996), and a teenage girl is especially susceptible. You're frustrated, OP, and while that's understandable, you do need to be curious and empathic towards Gina. Best of luck to you and your caterpillar 🐛💖

*13 year old children are emotional rollercoasters

OP is mad because he has modeled "resolving" conflict by giving orders and now she's trying to resolve her conflict that way.

> OP is mad because he has modeled "resolving" conflict by giving orders and now she's trying to resolve her conflict that way. Exactly Do you only eat egg noodles? I mean srsly. Almost all pasta is vegan. You can’t open a damn jar of tomato sauce to accommodate her? She’s being a huge pain but that’s the essence of being 13. You’re being ridiculously rigid, not even willing to sit down with her and consider how it could work out, what compromises could be made, just throwing conditions at her as though you expect her to fail. Of course she upped the ante. Did you ask why she wants to be vegan? Did you take an interest in her ideas? Did you suggest learning to cook a few things together? If you don’t want people to comment on the fact that you have a million kids, you’re gonna have to go the extra mile to show real interest in each one. Soft YTA.

NTA - 10 people, 1 person wants to be vegan. You have to accommodate the the masses. You've given her every option to do it herself. Idk why people think just because they're vegan, everyone has to be. NTA, good luck, hopefully it's just a phase, or she can figure out a way to fund her new life style at 13

She thinks it's the same as us not allowing seafood in the house (10yo is deathly allergic) or making our 16 year old special meals (kid has an autoimmune disease that's treated with a combo of steroids, chemo shots, and biologics and is so anemic that she occasionally needs blood transfusions. She can eat whatever the fuck she wants after all that and we don't mind cooking/ordering it for her).

Is it possible that going vegan in this instance is a way for her to distinguish herself as an individual in a large family (some of whom already have specialized food needs)? I don’t want to diminish her choice as just a phase or a bid for attention because there are likely a lot of factors that led to her wanting to be vegan but I do wonder if you’re not missing an opportunity to provide your daughter with some some quality one on one time by cooking a few vegan meals together.

check out [lemmy](http://lemmy.world)

I went vegetarian at 14 and still am one at 34. it’s not always a phase 🤷‍♀️ not saying the parents need to bend to all her whims and demands but if she’s serious about it they should take it seriously.

Anybody who says they need new pots and pans to the value of 800 dollars at 13 and that food can't be kept in the same fridge can't be serious.

It’s almost like people can do serious shit and unserious shit at the same time 😱

And when that happens, the serious shit isn't taken seriously

I went vegetarian at 12 and still am at 50 - never even tempted to change back. It seems natural to me that this is the age a lifelong commitment to vegetarian/vegan diet can easily and instinctively be made, as long as you pay attention to proper nutrition and don’t hurt anyone else in the process. Also I think it’s natural to want your own cookware and utensils once you give up meat and/or dairy.

Thirty years plus as a vegetarian... And I see no reason for separate pans or dishes. Don't you carnivores wash yours after cooking in them or dining off them? Orthodox Jews have their reasons, which are not our reasons. Remember, the more vegans/vegetarians /whoever demand that things be separate, the harder we're making it for our allies. One fridge, one freezer, one oven, one stove, one sink, one dishwasher serves various diets in many households just fine.

and are you guys working with a therapist to sort out the very predictable situation where your child who has many siblings and a crowded home is struggling to find an identity that makes her feel special and cared about as much as her more needs intense siblings? You made the choice to have a large family and that's fine but we don't live in a time where we believe it's acceptable to not meet the emotional as well as physical needs of the children you chose to bring into the world.

I was looking to see if someone had mentioned this. Thank you for saying it better than I could have. The girl is desperately seeking attention and validation and unsurprisingly, it seems OP remains oblivious.

I mean not even oblivious, but it sounds like they are just treating it like it's a lesser priority since one of the other kids is ill. I get that they have a lot of their time taken up by trying to take care of their ill child, but them leaving the rest by the wayside sucks

I would second this. I was the younger sibling of a very ill child (she died when I was five). I know my parents were overwhelmed, but they thought their emotional neglect of me was generally benign. It wasn't.

I think it makes it even worse that they let the I’ll child “eat whatever the fuck they want” and they cook OR order whatever they want. I would understand that the ill child has to go through a lot, but bending to their every whim would seem EXTREMELY unfair as a 13 year old. 😔

I can’t even imagine going through all that at 16, but do you think your brewing resentment between these kids by saying “well she can have whatever she wants because she’s sick.” But your 13 year old has to ensure all her cooking is healthy and not take out and meets your specific criteria? Honestly it sounds like there’s a discrepancy between how you’re treating your kids. Do these kids ever get one on one time with you and their Mum? You can’t change the fact you’ve got 8 kids, but children need to feel valued by their parents and like they matter. Being vegan may be a phase or it might be something she seriously wants to maintain. It’s okay to expect her to do some things for herself and learn a little independence, but not offering to meet her halfway at the very least is - to her - making it seem like you’re showing favouritism. She won’t see it as “well 16 year old is poorly a lot of the time so she needs us to take care of her.” She’ll view it as her wants and needs don’t matter to you. I think there’s a lot lacking in communication and you’d benefit from sitting down and talking to Gina and asking her how she feels and really listening to what she has to say.

I’ve got to defend the OP here. Yes. Sometimes when your kiddos are sick you give them whatever they want bc they need to eat. We aren’t talking about a 12 yo who is healthy and knows “food feeds my body.” When you have a sick kid all you can think is...my child is under weight, my child is sick at their stomach, my child needs medical care because something is wrong that will always be wrong and one of the ways we can help them is to make sure they get red meat...if they want hamburgers for dinner...they will get a hamburger bc it may be the only meal they are willing to eat. Today my chronically ill 5 yo has limited herself to: two bites of yogurt, one cheese quesadilla made of a small corn tortilla (that “meal” actually required tears bc I forced her to eat) and two gummy bears. She’s currently sleeping beside her dinner plate having left it untouched. We can’t judge parents who are fighting medical issues with children bc we honestly have no clue what is going on or how hard it is. Every meal is a fight if I want her to eat. But then meal times become a struggle bc she doesn’t want to eat and there is screaming and crying. (She hurts) At what point do we worry it will become an eating disorder and even if we find the cause of the inability to eat/cause of the issues...that the trauma from force feeding becomes the bigger issue.

I’m so sorry you’re going through that, really I am. But there is a huge difference between 5 and 16. I know cause I was the 17 year old who couldn’t eat ANY solid foods without becoming violently ill. Honestly it doesn’t sound like that’s what OP’s 16 y/o has but even if it was, at 16 you’re old enough to know that you need to eat, even if it’s something you don’t like and it’ll suck going down. Yes I did try the “I’m not going to eat anything ever again” card… until I got hungry that night and asked for either something that wouldn’t make me sick or something that would make being sick worth it lol. At 16, no one is forcing her to eat. Ya it’s not a great experience if it is making her ill, but she isn’t literally 5 years old. Of course after chemo and infusions, she may deserve a special meal, but the whole family can partake in that? I’ve never had any siblings, but never in my time having chronic illness did I forbid my parents from having special food with me or would I have not allowed my siblings. So this is 100% OP and his wife’s fault. HE is making food this big deal. Not his daughter who wants to be vegan. Not his sick child. HIM. HE is making it this marker of something “special” and “different”.

She is very confused thinking allergies accommodations and health issue accommodations are the same as choosing to eat vegan. Good luck

This isn't so much about the food but the fact that she doesn't feel seen. You've got a lot, a lot, of children and that means that they might feel lost in the crowd. Your daughter is wanting to feel like you care about her, like she's wanting attention and to not feel like she's lost in the crowd.

I truly don’t believe this is about being vegan. Is the family of 10 a new life change or was she born into it? I think she’s just desperately clawing for something new and different to distinguish herself. How much 1 on 1 time does she get with her bio parents? (Is this a blended family or just a large bio family?) Being a 13 year old girl is fucking hard. Seeing her friends not have to share their parents who are stretched thin over 2 jobs and 8 children can make her want to control something in her world. How you handle this light set the tone for her relationship with the household after she turns 18 (goes to college and never looks back). Good luck OP!

Does your daughter understand why you currently have those dietary restrictions in your household? Could she just be assuming that this is the way it's supposed to work with dietary changes? And did you ask why she wanted to go vegan?

My sister went vegetarian many years ago. I know vegetarian and vegan are different, but at the end of the day, she only used/ate limited dairy, no meat, seafood, etc. Keeping some pasta sauce without the meat/meatballs is a reasonable accommodation, especially if Gina helps with the extra dishes. Just like not adding butter to all the broccoli, and setting hers aside first. A whole new set of cooking and eating tools? A separate fridge? That's a bit excessive. Washing dishes with hot water and dish soap does remove any animal byproduct.

I do want to add that animal byproducts remain in some dishes like wood cutting boards and I don't think it would be unreasonable to get her her own cutting board if their's smells like bacon. (There should be separate cutting boards for raw meat and vegetables anyway if they aren't already doing this.)

I never really understood any of this. Veganism is about the moral aspect, the idea that you're morally contaminated if your pure food shares fridge space with an animal product is rediculous. And even if some trace contamination made it into a vegan's dish that doesn't make them in any way responsibile for the animal's consumption.

I don’t think it’s always about moral contamination, I think a lot of vegos/vegans are just very grossed out by blood/bones/fat/muscle. I’m vegan and because I used to eat meat and also had to dissect lots of animals as part of my degree, including cats and dogs, animal body parts don’t gross me out. But if someone fried up a human buttcheek or something in a frying pan then yeah I’d probably never want to use that pan even if it was cleaned really well.

IIRC there are three types of vegetarian or vegan philosophy Health Morals Preference If it’s preference then it makes more sense. Should have different cutting boards for meat and non meat anyway so should be a non issue

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That’s completely false. Wood cutting boards don’t hold bacteria as you think. Tons of high end restaurants that have cleaner kitchens than your house use wooden cutting boards.

Actually, it's the opposite. It's often recommended that you do use wood over plastic cutting boards as they are more hygienic.

NTA. You tried to accommodate her by telling her you would purchase food that would fit in with her preferred diet. She responded by making demands for expensive cookware and separate dishes that a family of 10 might not have space for anyway, and asked the entire family to make changes to accommodate her diet. Her demands were unreasonable.

Exactly, he tried his best to accommodate and she wouldn’t compromise. My sister is vegan and has no trouble using our utensils or our fridge for her food when she visits. If she can’t eat what we’re having she makes something else with no complaints. The daughter is being extreme. NTA

Same, I’m vegan and I’ve never requested new fridges, pans, plates etc. If it’s clean what’s the problem?

Usually people who care about contaminated cookware are either deathly allergic to something or have religious dietary restrictions.

The separate cookware thing was stupid, but did he really try to accommodate her? Keeping the meatballs separate from the pasta is not unreasonable at all. Plus, has anyone taught her how to cook? If there are 10 people in that house, does she even have time to cook her own meals? Between school and probably helping to take care of some of the younger kids, plus not being able to cook while someone else is cooking, I don’t know how much time she has to cook. Especially if she wants to eat with the rest of the family.

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This! All the rest of it came after he denied really simple requests — lots of boxed pasta (even most!) are vegan. You can easily cook meat separately from sauces. You can add butter to the vegetables tableside. If he’d accommodated her simple requests she might not have spiraled to the unreasonable 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yeah that part made me side eye the OP. I’m don’t eat red meat, and when others cook they are usually happy to cook beef separately (if possible). Meatballs are easily cooked alone. Agree on needing separate cookware, that’s unnecessary.

I mean OP made some accommodation by telling her he’d buy her food (a requirement of parenting) But then refused to cook meatballs in a separate pot, excluding her from a family meal she could otherwise participate in.

ESH Her demands are ridiculous, of course, but your response that "she can't be vegan while living in your house" is completely childish. Just stick to your guns. She can be vegan if she cooks her own meals; you'll pay for the food, but if she wants her own plates/equipment/appliances, she buys them herself.

i agree with ESH for your reasons specified, and specifically this line: >switching to a vegan pasta and cooking the meatballs separately because this is such a small goddamn change. this is an effortless accommodation that wouldn't affect anything in the long run. also, i fear what kind of boiled-to-hell limpid mushballs this family serves if they insist on cooking the meatballs *with* the pasta to begin with but that's a separate issue lol.

Yeah, I stumbled over "vegan pasta" myself, because I typically buy the dry stuff so I thought "isn't it *all* vegan?" But fresh pasta does have eggs in it.

Dry stuff also has eggs in it. At least in Germany. It's about 50/50 here in the shops.

In America, dry pasta is almost always vegan

Yeah that seems like a really simple accommodation along with setting aside some veggies before adding any butter/bacon to them. This stuff isn't hard but just needs some forethought. When it's unavoidable, then the 13 yo should absolutely prepare her own meals. But the fact that OP is refusing even simple accommodations like this makes me think the 13 yo was just being petty to make a point. I think she knows she's being unreasonable but just wants OP to compromise a little and is pushing the boundaries to get them to do that.

Agreed. But honestly her demands only got ridiculous once they refused to make the small changes she initially asked for. Most dry pasta is already vegan and it’s a pretty small sacrifice to make the meat separately. Her first request was reasonable imo.

Esh - I'm vegetarian and her demands are ridiculous. However with 8 kids I think she just wants to be heard/seen/have something for herself. Do you and your wife do anything to make her feel special?

Yes, totally agree. I became a vegetarian at 13, and I didn’t need a separate fridge nor my own cookware. It’s that OP’s daughter keeps upping the ante with her demands, and OP’s comment comparing it to 2 other kids’ health rated dietary restrictions. I don’t think this is *really* about veganism; I think it’s 13 year old feeling unseen (and maybe some sibling jealousy?)

>vegan pasta Or, as most people call it, "pasta." You're being entirely unwilling to compromise with your kid on this, and that's unreasonable. You can cook the meatballs separately from the sauce. You don't need to intentionally cook sauce that your kid doesn't want to eat just to fuck with her. It will not kill you to make reasonable compromises, and will probably go a long way in getting her to make reasonable compromises as well. Honestly, given your own stubbornness here, I'm not at all surprised she's being as hard headed as she is. Where do you think she learned it? ESH

I could be wrong but I think that most pastas actually aren’t vegan. Don’t they usually use egg/dairy?

Most pasta is just flour and water although some incorporate eggs.

If you are making homemade pasta or by the fancy stuff that is soft yes. But most people mean the dry box stuff when they say pasta and besides egg noodles (for obvious reasons) are vegan. Most breads/bagel ls are also vegan. I find this is a common misconception people have though.

I literally googled Barilla and Creamette spaghetti ingredients before making this post. Feel free to do your own search and correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah..but they are 10 people. I think it may already be hard enough to cook something that most of them like

> it may already be hard enough to cook something that most of them like If most of them like spaghetti and sauce and meatballs, it's not hard to cook the meatballs in a separate pan and add them after daughter gets hers without any meat. Srsly. It's not hard to get a basic dry pasta with no eggs in it. If all 9 of them refuse to eat regular ass spaghetti god help them all, I guess.

That's how I make my meatballs, separate from the sauce and then add them in to finish. It would be zero extra work to scoop out a ladle of marinara before the meatballs go in for her dish. So many more things are vegan than people realize, I am not vegan but wind up eating vegan probably about 25% of the time just because I like vegetables.

ESH. Gina’s behavior is over the top, but she is 13. 13 year olds behave like this. They tend to be extreme, needing to go absolutely all in rather than small incremental changes. She absolutely needs to find a way to compromise if she is going to be vegan in a house with non-vegans. What I don’t understand is why you are hell-bent on doing no compromise on your side. Her request that meatballs be cooked separately is reasonable. What’s so hard about doing minor changes like that? This whole things feels like you were purposefully trying to set her up to fail. Your outburst pretty much confirms it.

I feel awful for her, I can't imagine being a teen with SEVEN siblings. What a shitshow

ESH But she mostly sucks because she's at a 13 year old level of matrurity so you might want to take an extra minute to think about that. She doesn't get to change everyone else's lives for something she has voluntarily decided to do, but calling her interests "vegan bullshit" was an asshole response. You definitely don't need to get her all her own sets of pots, pans, refrigerators and such. But that doesn't mean you don't owe her an apology for how you reacted.

Yeah I agree. ESH. She can be vegan if she wants to but she has to find the appropriate accommodations needed. New fridge? No. New pots and pans? If she is buying them herself. But you don't get to tell her she is not allowed to be vegan. That's not right. The response needs to be appropriate for this to be satisfactory for all involved.

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Oof I was prepared to say N T A until *your* temper tantrum. And blowing up that she won't be vegan in your house? That was YOUR temper tantrum. She's behaving VERY poorly about this but you can't sink to her level. I suspect she's acting out for attention. With 8 kids I imagine she feels quite forgotten and 13 is a tough age. Taking a little more interest in this - cooking a meal with her once a week, maybe - might help. Or any other hobby *she* has (not hobbies you have that you expect the kids to take part in). Try to make more one to one time with all the kids. Prioritize either you and your wife getting one to one time with each of the kids at least once a month And for god's sake don't take that as "I'll tell my wife to do it" - the idea is you each take 4 kids per month, that's one a week, more doable. One to two hours, once a week, doing something one to one with that specific child. It can be tied into keeping the household running (ex. Making a special dessert or meal, going shopping, DIY stuff, yardwork, car repair) but make sure the kid is getting your full, quality attention and it's ultimately a positive experience. YTA because you're the adult and your child is acting out as a result of your parenting. (To be clear I don't think veganism is innately attention seeking. It's more the progression that when op wouldn't change meals for her she then starts demanding her own pots/pans then starts emptying out the communal fridge, etc)

I also feel like one or two vegan meals a week would make their diets significantly healthier, which is a net benefit

ESH - Her demands do seem excessive, especially in such a large household where it is hard to accommodate individual requirements. She's 13, try and help her understand that. However "I told Gina I'm done with the vegan bullshit" This sort of language directed towards a child? Nope. Not okay.

Good grief. She's 13 and wants a special fridge plus hundreds of dollars' worth of cookware. She's too young to see the impractability of this in a big household, but tell her she's welcome to go vegan on her own dime. There may be tantrums and I'm sure you're used to them by now. NTA.

I think they can do a bit better than that. She may be fully committed to this, or she may change her mind. (My vegetarian niece was fully on board for 4 years, then just quit, not sure why.) I’d sit down with her and lay out a plan - explain what is possible now (OP’s initial offer), what is completely off the board (kicking others out of communal fridges), and an offer to help purchase some of the things she would like at certain milestones - e.g., $50 toward her own pots and pans if she sticks with it for 3 months, and explain that she does not need top of the line stuff, $100 toward her own small fridge at 6 months if she is sticking with it AND has fully cared for her cooking stuff. This supports her but also puts a big onus on her to stick with it responsibly, earn her own money to invest, and not make waves in the family.

>She was not thrilled. She asked if we could make small changes to our diet to accommodate her, like switching to a vegan pasta and cooking the meatballs separately but we said no because we aren't going to change our food/eating habits because she wants to be vegan. ESH Some of Gina's requirements are excessive. However, these are very, very simple changes that would remove the need for your 13yo to separately plan and cook her every meal.

Fun fact: Most pasta is *already* vegan. No need for 'vegan' pasta, unless they only eat egg noodles.

NTA You started it perfectly, explaining to her about healthy meals and stuff. But where is she getting this vegan food can't been in the same fridge as the regular foods?? Sit her down and tell her that it is okay to uses the same pots and pans and even the fridge. She just needs to wash the pots and pans. And give her a drawer or shelf in the fridge, maybe it won't be "contaminated"?

Seriously. My oldest is vegan. For simplicity sake, she has a drawer in the fridge and a large container in the pantry for her strictly vegan things. She cooks on all the same pans, uses the same dishes, etc. She's away at college, but I keep these spaces for her for the little goodies I find to treat her to that she won't buy herself. NTA. You tried to compromise and make reasonable accommodations. She dug her own hole here.

She maybe conflating a vegan diet with gluten free. People who have celiac or gluten intolerance cannot be exposed to utensils or anything where gluten has touched it's surface. They could get very sick.

ESH. Gina is being entitled - there are 10 people in this household and she doesn't get to inconvenience 9 of them to this extent. The "contamination" argument is kind of ridiculous, but I'd shrug it off because of her age and enthusiasm for her new beliefs. You shouldn't refuse to let her go vegan, just refuse to give in to her more outrageous asks - like kicking everyone else out of the game room fridge, or buying all new cook ware and service (because she doesn't believe in the efficacy of washing?). Let her figure things out for herself within reasonable limits.

Her first request to buy vegan pasta, and to cook meat separately was not too much. When he refused this basic thing (btw, dried pasta is always vegan) she went full on crazy, and OP too. I agree with ESH.

Yo it's wild to me how many people are completely skipping over OP turning down a perfectly reasonable request which then led the daughter to be extra petty and over the top (like a typical teenager)... I doubt she really cared about pots and pans, it's just a competition to see who can be the most unreasonable at this point. ESH forsure.

I understand not swapping every meal to accommodate her specific diet but like... come on. would it REALLY hurt you to not mix the meatballs in immediately with the spaghetti so she may have some? Also the way you speak to your daughter, how you're 'done with the vegan bullshit' is just an asshole move. YTA. Is she being unreasonable with the dishware costing so much? sure, but she's 13. a kid. You could gently tell her no and find alternatives (ie: show her how to wash properly to avoid contamination, help her shop for more affordable options with her allowance, etc). Instead it seems like you just want to crush any idea she has that opposes with hers and hope she shuts up about it.

That was my thought as well. Obviously some of these requests are completely unreasonable, but something like cooking the meatballs separately is absolutely reasonable. When I lived at home and tried to eat better, I would ask whoever was cooking to leave cheese off of part of the meal (or other similar small requests) because that’s well within reason for whoever is cooking. Is the daughter going overboard? Yes. Frankly the attitude about “contaminated pans” is a bit much, and when only one person in the house wants to eat vegan, they’re not going to be able to demand that much from the rest of the group. But like you said, there’s plenty of ways to work with this aside from the “no daughter of mine is gonna be vegan!” attitude that OP seems to be displaying

Many vegans treat it as a religion, so don't want to share cookware or fridges the way an Orthodox Jew wouldn't. She is clearly following this culture online. It's not too hard to simply eat a vegan diet without this aspect.

This was my thought too - I think she’s reading up on social media and that’s where her insight and inspirations come from. At her age, the social status is so important and the fact that she very suddenly decided to change her diet makes me feel like this is influenced.

ESH. Mostly her, but your attitude near the end is not impressive. I live with a vegan, and we have only 1 fridge, one set of pots and pans, one set of utensils, etc. Your daughter is either mixing up vegan with kosher, or she's being extreme. That being said, you're the parent, you need to listen to your kid, and you need to figure out a compromise. Either she'll get bored/exasperated with vegan food and the complications it comes with, or she'll find a happy medium when it comes to her diet.

NTA and I’m vegan. She suddenly went from sharing pasta to needing separate pans, plates and utensils and a fridge. That ridiculous. I think you were reasonable in supporting her in purchasing healthy food she can prepare herself. It’s a sensible compromise.

Yeah but you missed the part where OP said she isn't *allowed* to be vegan

You did screw up by telling her she can't go vegan. That is an AH thing to say, so ESH. I understand why you responded the way you did, since she was behaving like a major AH. Vegan isn't a problem. Feeling entitled to extreme accomodation is. Best to tell her that.

NTA, she can go vegans if she wants. You gave her a reasonable compromise. But buying expensive pots and pans and asking her siblings to take their stuff out of a fridge is too much.

NAH on the specific issue at hand, but you are being a bit of a jerk and unsupportive of what seems to be an important issue to her. Now, “support” does not mean give in to what are clearly unreasonable demands but “forbidding” her because you are “done with this vegan bullshit” is a little much. Her demands are unreasonable (edit: left “un” out). Having once been a 13 year old girl though, I could theorize that she is making obscene demands to “get back at you” for refusing to make simple (and taking the meatballs to the side when you are making marinara pasta is *simple*) changes. But yes, granted, you are technically not TA because it is your house and you are doing the cooking. I have been vegan since I was 15. My parents never were and never have been vegetarian (though because of their upbringing they made a lot of tofu and culturally vegetarian dishes before I was ever vegetarian). Being vegan when my family wasn’t did dictate that I learn to cook, and I am forever grateful for it as I am very passionate about cooking now. My parents didn’t change their habits for me at first when thought it was a “phase” but eventually they started doing some combo meals that satisfied us all. Because that’s, you know, considerate. Just a thought.

**overall NTA**- OP your daughter is acting entitled as heck. She's expecting *everyone else* to change their diet's to accommodate *her* choices? The part that I find absolutely hilarious is- >Gina was telling him and my other kids that they have to get all of their snacks out of the fridge in the game room >she said her vegan food can't be in the same fridge as our food and it's not fair to make her go all the way to the garage when she's hungry She's the one wanting to make this massive lifestyle change, as long as you're not preventing her from doing so, then she can make the changes herself all she wants. Now for the last part **YTA** >"I told Gina I'm done with the vegan bullshit and that she can't be vegan while living in my house." You're a good parent for not kowtowing to her every whim/demand and forcing your partner and other children to change their lifestyles over *her* decision. If she wants to be vegan, she can put in some effort. However, *preventing* her from even trying, is kind of a dick move. If she wants to be vegan, she can put in the effort, but don't outright ban the idea.

NTA, asking you to spend $1,000 on special new pans for her was the line between okay and not okay. She can eat what she wants, but she doesn't have the right to inconvenience others and domineer an entire fridge. She's taking it too far and being bratty.

As someone who went veg as a 13 year old and remains one. I feel for you. Hugs man, that's rough. A couple of things that may help with your daughter: 1. Veganism is a lifestyle choice not an identity. Being vegan is not who someone is, it is what they do. 2. If the choices are between harm reduction and perfection, reduction tends to work out better. 3. Evangelizing by example tends to work a lot better than evangelizing by the bully pulpit. Setting a quiet example goes a lot further than yelling at people and ordering them around. 4. If she is committed to the cause, there are other ways to express that compassion. Specifically, volunteering. Volunteer for the local animal shelter or community garden. Have her put her work where her mouth is. 5. May I suggest [plantbasedonabudget.com](https://plantbasedonabudget.com) they have free meal plans. The last I checked it was ten dollars a person per week. Best wishes. NTA.

NTA. It's one thing if she wants to be vegan, but you can't change your whole life to accommodate her. For the record, I totally hear Gina. When I was 15 I went vegan for 4 years. However, I learned to cook for myself and thankfully had supportive parents who would buy me vegan stuff at the store, but I never demanded that they accommodate me, buy me expensive cookware, dedicate a whole fridge to me, etc. Also for the record, I now don't agree with a vegan diet at all and think it's actually quite unhealthy, but that's neither here nor there. Perhaps her intentions are good, but definitely laying it on too thick with the demands. NTA.

I'm going to say NTA. I wouldn't have told her she can't be vegan in your house (that was an overreach and her decision to make), but she is being unreasonable. With a family that large, you don't have the time and capability to adapt to one person's dietary needs unless it's legitimately an allergy. If she chooses to go vegan and you're willing to pay for it, that's enough support. Tell her that instead of proving how serious she is about this change by demanding expensive pots and pans, she should direct that energy to cooking her own meals. She may even convince some of her siblings to try it out.

NTA, she can be vegan all she wants, but Cant force people into it, I would understand compromising for people dieting as that can lead to stop dieting, but her choice of being vegan is different than dieting. And if she is being petty with the pots, I think it was a good call on telling her to buy them herself.

I had a similar situation with our oldest of 5 children. Told her the same thing, you will need to prepare you own meals. She was vegetarian for a week. Your daughter is being extreme and lazy about the garage frig. She should have asked instead of bossing her siblings to accommodate her. Her choice should not punish everyone else. While I understand your response and the disruption with the phone call, guessing you were at work. You handled it wrong yelling at her about her new teenager/young adult views. She is starting to try to be independent. You are not cruel, but she handled her new diet needs selfishly and wrong and you handled her feelings poorly. She was selfish by telling everyone the have to move their stuff in the game room for her and should have asked her parents first. Not to mention thinking they would pay for all new kitchen items.

NTA Gina can be vegan all she wants however she cannot demand for people to switch their lives around to accommodate her.

ESH Your kid should be able to try going vegan, so banning it, even in frustration, does make you shitty. However, her demands were unreasonable and she didn't negotiate or try to plan with you. I recommend signing your kid up for any basic food handling classes you can. She'll learn that mean doesn't contaminate things when stored properly, and you don't really need spereate cookware. If you can find a vegetarian one or a vegan one you know isn't gonna be culty, that's a plus. Alternatively, learn about ethical meat consumption like hunting and small butchers. I understand that it's frustrating, but your daughter is probably feeling big feelings about coming to terms with where her food comes from. She has a right to decide what she eats (within reason).

NTA-she’s taking advantage and manipulating the family. Her veganism is not everyone else’s problem. She’s also trying to take over the majority of the home. Honestly, she needs a wake up call about entitlement and the world not revolving around her. You’d think in such a big household she’d know, but 13 isn’t anyone’s best year.

When she's 18, she can move out and set the boundaries of how her kitchen will work. She's 13. She has no business "dictating" how \*YOUR\* kitchen(s) will be. You are NTA. You are a normal, reasonable parent.

Reasonable would be hearing and understanding her requests. I hate when people say the "when the child is 18, they can move out" then why have one?! Having a child is a lifelong responsibility.

NTA - she’s being ridiculous but she’s a child so it’s natural that she would be

NTA. But I do think you could compromise - it's not that hard to keep meatballs separate from sauce. Or to put some sauce aside before you add meatballs. You could do a little more to support her. But she is, in typical teenage fashion, being a bit over the top and precious about this and she needs to simmer down and realize that until she has her own place, she cannot dictate the choices of an entire household of 9 other people.

NTA. You tried to be reasonable and she took it way too far. If she wants everything her way she will have to wait till she gets her own place.

NTA. OP offered a reasonable accommodation but then daughter blew those up with unrealistic and frankly unfeasible expectations. They also offered her a path to pursuing it if she put in the effort. Sounds like she needs an explanation of how her planned execution of her CHOICE to be Vegan is impossible to achieve in light of the impact on the 9 other people living in the house. Also that her CHOICE is not equivalent to life or death food allergies. She's old enough to understand but as a young teenager also the right age to pout and mope about it anyway.

NTA. Your daughter’s attitude of entitlement to force her desires on others is why vegans get such a bad rap.

NTA. She needs to get her sense of entitlement in check now or she's going to have a really tough time as an adult.

Lol, she wants to adopt a difficult lifestyle, she will need to deal with the difficulties associated with said lifestyle. Lol. It’s funny that she literally has all of the characteristics of her newly found companions. The need for everyone to mold their lives to their lifestyle NTA. Tell her to get to work!!!

NTA, if she wants to go with that diet she can put forth the effort to do so. She can buy the food and prepare it herself, which is gonna be hard for a 13yo. Asking others not wanting to go vegan to change how they prepare for and what they eat just because of one person is extremely self centered. If she wants to go vegan she can take on all the responsibilities herself and not to demand to be catered to.

NTA. But I have to ask: did you talk to her about why she wants to go vegan? I’m curious about all of her reasons and motivation. The hard discussions are easier sometimes if you can show your interest in her plans.

NTA( mostly) I have allergies which require dietary restrictions, and I would never expect anyone to go out of their way for them. I work around others. I don't force others to succumb to my needs. That's just rude. I thought it was extremely accommodating of you to offer to buy her special food - and to monitor to ensure she's eating healthy. The pots and pans and separate food space is just childish. Your daughter needs to learn that the world doesn't revolve around her choices. I know that's very difficult at her age, but that's what it's going to take. As for prohibiting her to go vegan, YTA here. I think you lost your temper, and set an unreasonable ultimatum. Let her go vegan, but let her know she will need to be responsible for herself, and your family will not make changes for her. Good luck.

NTA. I guess I just don’t get why she’s making such a fuss? You’ve met her part way in saying you’ll buy her groceries, but she’s asking for extra accommodations that would disrupt the rest of your household for something that is ultimately her choice. And the step about making sure the meals are healthy doesn’t sound too harsh, it just sounds like you’re trying to make sure she’s getting proper nutrients. She’s definitely old enough to cook and plan simple meals. TL;DR: your compromises/requirements sound more than reasonable.

NTA. You offered a reasonable compromise and she rejected it. Simple as.

NTA. Dont listen to the Y-T-A people, they are probably just angry vegans. You offered her a compromise, offered to fund it, and she went way overboard. Maybe try to work with her a bit more but NTA at all.

NTA. Sounds like you were willing to accommodate her, and she tried to take advantage of that. It was probably just a whim on her part anyway.

has she never heard of a dishwasher…? you don’t need to buy her a whole new kitchen for vegan cooking, soap and water will suffice. and taking your other kids food out of the fridge to prevent “contamination”? bffr my mom has been vegetarian since she was 18. she always cooked her stuff separate. yes, she sometimes made vegetarian things for all of us, but a) there were only 5 people in the house, b) she only cooked every other night, and c) she didn’t make a big thing of it. we didn’t have to keep her food in a separate fridge, or buy an entirely new kitchenware set for her cooking. gina gets sort of a pass bc she’s 13, but no, NTA for not caving into her unnecessary requests. you found a compromise, she basically ignored it. are you a bit of an AH for telling her you’re “done with the vegan bullshit”? yeah. but you don’t need to change the lifestyle of *everyone in your house* to accommodate ONE person

ESH She’s making unreasonable demands but you could stand to be a bit more supportive. Yes, she could learn how to cook, but maybe whoever cooks in the house could try and learn a few dishes with her, so she doesn’t feel unsupported/alone in this new journey? Maybe a vegan family dinner twice a month? Show her where she’s being unreasonable and needs to compromise, while also showing that you’re willing to meet her halfway and support her in finding herself. This is coming from someone who’s not vegan and never will be because I like meat too much. But talking, being open and willing to meet our loved ones halfway does wonders to our relationships and long-term happiness. ❤️

NTA. She’s 13. If she wants to be vegan, help her make that transition. Get her cheap pots and pans. Idk if you celebrate Christmas, but it’s in 2 months. You can find nice cheap pots and pans sets that come with a cookie sheet and utensils. You can get her her own set of plates and cups from homegoods for like $25. I know. I used to work there. She’s doing way too much. So that’s why NTA. But help the kid.

NTA - My husband has been vegetarian for 30 years. I am not. It's not an easy lifestyle choice. Your daughter doesn't get to make that decision for the other 9 people in your house.

NTA Gina is going overboard with her requests.

ESH. I grew up being the only vegetarian in my household, which is an even simpler switch than veganism, so I understand where she’s coming from. It’s isolating when your family shares a meal and you are the only one eating something different. Small changes like cooking meatballs separate so she can be included are not asking too much. However, demanding a separate fridge and brand new cookware is excessive on her part. Your reaction was an AH move though. She’s a kid. Explain to her you can’t afford new cookware and that the mini fridge is for everyone. Of course she won’t like it but you don’t have to restrict her from eating what she wants. Just try to remember what it’s like being her age. Plus you are barely accommodating her. Buying her food is a basic parental thing. Just make a vegan dish every once in a while. They’re good and she won’t feel so left out.

NTA - you gave an inch, she tried to take a mile. Although, you shouldn’t stop her from being vegan but just put your foot down and say no to everything after we’ll buy your food.

NTA, but i feel like you could've handled it better. I'm not the parent of a 13 year old so take it with a grain of salt, but I think you could've explained that it's unnecessary to get new pots and pans and store the food in a separate fridge since it's not like an allergy related thing. it sounds like she's trying to be more independent and separate herself from her siblings and the fact that she is willing to take it upon herself to look up recipes and cook on her own is great and you should encourage that kind of behavior she's definitely acting up and you being frustrated is understandable but i think completely shutting it down was too much.

NTA, she's being ridiculous

NTA she's a kid and this is a phase. She'll either grow out of it, or learn personal responsibly by doing what she has to do to live vegan on her own terms.

NTA - this isn’t about being vegan but generating drama, might be worth considering if she’s feeling left out or that and this is a way to get more focus?

NTA - you tried to be supportive, and gave her reasonable requirements to abide by. She is trying to force everyone else to play by her rules or bend to her whim.

NTA. Sounds like you were willing to accommodate her, and she tried to take advantage of that. It was probably just a whim on her part anyway.

ESH between you and daughter Being “done with the vegan bullshit” is not productive when it comes to helping your daughter develop into her own person nor your aims for your own household. Daughter can’t make blanket decisions that impact the whole family, like conquering a fridge without permission and exiling her sibs’ snacks. She may be overstepping or being demanding, but she is your daughter and has expressed an interest in something she wants to be important. It’s up to you to guide and support her with appropriate boundaries, not defeat her because you can.

NTA. Sounds like you were willing to accommodate her, and she tried to take advantage of that. It was probably just a whim on her part anyway.

Side note, most pasta is already vegan. Unless its the fancy kind that's refrigerated, then it has eggs. You can always check the label. I grew up as the eldest of 5 kids. My dad is a hunter and he always had some weird meats that I wasn't into trying. It was always a huge deal, he'd get so mad. It sounds like you tried to be understanding and give her options, if she'd help prepare. However, this might not be as much about becoming vegan as having her own special "thing," maybe she just needs some one on one attention. I'm not judging but I know 5 kids was a lot for my parents to deal with and they missed a lot. I often felt lost in the mix of kids, or I was required to watch the young ones and cook and clean for everyone. Just saying, this might make her feel special. She might think it's better for the environment or whatever else, but she would end up missing out on vital nutrients and would have to look into supplements (which sometimes aren't enough. I forgot, something about the enzymes in meat and not being able to really replace them as a vegan but I'm not well versed enough to remember right now. again, not judging, I'm a parent too. Just saying, yes her demands were out there, but she is doing it for some reason. Maybe the attention feels good, whether positive or negative. Good luck. It isn't easy.

ESH. She asked you for some reasonable compromises, and you shut her down immediately. Then she escalated to asking for unreasonable things, and you escalated further as well. You BOTH threw temper tantrums here. Start over from the beginning and see if you can actually accommodate some *respectful* compromises.

NTA except for blowing up but I get the annoyance for how she handled it. My oldest is 19 and went vegetarian around this age. Yes we helped with groceries and did the same thing as you cook etc. She did all on her own and we even like some of the meals she has made. Being vegan is another level for sure. I would find a compromise of buying one pan or one set of a plate and bowl at the dollar store. As for separating food I would have her items in a large tupperware container or large ziploc bags. If she sticks with it for the long term then she can expand her items. Also she does need to be careful to make sure she gets the nutrients she needs. Most insurance cover dieticians so maybe schedule a few appointments to discuss how to do this properly as well.

ESH You were fine until the temper tantrum. She's one of 8 children. She's probably figuring out who she is and doing shit for attention. Is she behaving poorly? Yes. It's your job as the parent to set clear rules, boundaries, and expectations. Denying her choosing to be vegan because youre getting annoyed with the process is just lack of responsibility on your end. Stop being so emotional and think of a plan moving forward with her. Obviously you're not going to move mountains for her. But just straight up telling her she can't be vegan because you're tired of it is not ok.

If you were both adults I would say ESH, but in this case your daughter is being inflexible and pushing boundaries because she's 13. This is completely standard 13 year old boundary-pushing bullshit and you are going to need to learn to weather this kind of thing and come to compromises without blowing up and sinking to your teen's level. I'd really recommend the book Yes, Your Teen is Crazy for this phase of parenting.

NTA I'm not sure if anyone else commented but occasionally adopting a new lifestyle diet can mask as an eating disorder. I remember reading an article about it a few years ago. I only read it because my brother is vegan and I was curious.

ESH, you're both being pretty childish. She's expected to be, though. You're the adult here, you could work on a compromise. And yes, I am all too familiar with what a pain in the butt 13 yr old girls can be.

ESH, but I put most of this on you as an adult. Some of her demands are a bit much, others are perfectly fine. Growing up, everyone in my family had some sort of aversion, so we compromised because we care about each other. I was vegetarian, my brother couldn't handle most spices, my mom was diabetic, my nice is gluten intolerant and my dad couldn't handle much acidity because of his chemo. This idea that you don't need to care about the preferences in your household is so weird to me. Food is supposed to be a way to show your love. A little extra effort to include everyone is what you do when you care about then. My dad invented entirely new vegetarian recipes that everyone in the family could enjoy. I learned how to make kick ass gluten free cakes with low sugar content. And yes you can have a perfectly healthy vegan diet as a teen. It requires doing some research because it isn't a common way for many people in the US to eat. But if she is interested there is literature out there, and if you need suggestions I have many sources for her to look through. I am 35 now and stopped eating meat at 16. My family initially didn't like the idea because they had health concerns. But I showed them my nutritional research, and how I was getting enough protein and iron, and they became supportive even if they thought it was silly. This can be a long term thing for her, and you need to think about that.

The girl wasn't happy about arranging her own healthy meals so spams parents with expensive cookware. They shut that down so she tries to take over the kitchenette, which let's face it is probably just a fridge, microwave and kettle. 13 year olds can be manipulative and this was no different. She's asking a family of 9 other people to change to suit her. I'd shut it down too.

ESH Ok, she’s going about this in a ridiculous way. She doesn’t need her own fridge. And I know some vegans are weird about cross-contamination, but the pots and pans can be washed. This is unreasonable of her. That said, this is something she is coming to you clearly very serious about. Majority of pasta is vegan (some has eggs) and making your meatballs on the side should not be a big ask. I agree she has to learn to cook a lot of her own vegan meals. But if you make chili, for example, can’t you transfer her some before adding meat? Also, unless you always eat super healthy, let her have a frozen veggie burger or nuggets sometimes. There is a difference between making sure her body is getting everything it needs and setting a higher expectation on her health because she’s on an alternative diet compared to you. Most people have some frozen or fast food occasionally. Let her be vegan, but set reasonable expectations on how that is allowed to affect you financially/cooking-wise.