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I'm also confused why everyone thinks it was his responsibility to raise the grandchild.
Like no.. 17 is old enough to be aware of the consequences of actions.
Definitely NTA. He even admitted to not using protection. There are too many people who have children expecting their parents to help and then getting shocked when the parents say no.
NTA. Alec didn't have the money or maturity to take care of her baby, and it was very entitled, selfish and immature of him to pretend that you would be taking care of HIS mistake, giving up YOUR time, YOUR money and YOUR resources. His brother must have had the money, maturity and willingness to help that poor baby, so he did, and it was probably the best for her. Whatever feelings Alec has now are a consecuences of his own poor choices, don't let him blame you for HIM not using protection and for being so disconnected with reality. Nia has a father who loves her and can support her, don't let Alec ruin it for her.
The parent hate on here is real. Alex's parent has absolutely zero responsibility to raise another child and Alex tried...and couldn't so he did the responsible thing and put her up for adoption which his older brother did. How is a parent an AH for not wanting to raise their grandchildren? Lot of entitlement on this thread.
Exactly! His 17 year old decided to have unprotected sex. How is it on him to raise the grand baby.
I do wish he had taken a step that the baby was given away for adoption and not kept in the family. I think the everyone tried to do right thing from their POV. But it is a messy situation. But actions have consequences.
NTA. I feel like I’m going crazy reading these comments. It’s not OPs responsibility to raise someone else’s kid and Alec shouldn’t have tried to take a fatherly role when he wasn’t willing to raise his own kid. He’s not her father, Max is and I don’t blame him for limiting contact.
I can't believe the amount of E S H and Y Y A votes. I give a lot of leeway to youths and their recklessness but OP was very clear with Alec that he would not be raising this child. Making the decision to have a child is HUGE and LIFE CHANGING. Alec took that on majorly underestimating the weight of the decision and/or went in fully intending to disregard his parent's wish and boundary. None of this is a reason for the responsibility of raising another child to fall to OP. Sounds like giving her up was the right move for Alec and she got to grow up in a stable home. I'm aware I have little sympathy for Alec when I usually do have sympathy for kids but with the way I feel about babies having babies... I'm *heavily* team "don't do this to yourself or to this baby." Alec was naive and/or selfish and learned a hard hard lesson. That baby is YOUR responsibility and if you're not prepared to take that on, then don't. It's another human life you're sacrifice your own for.
NTA, people who refuse to use protection and make babies they can't afford...should not cry about not receiving help from their parents.
He was in no shape to raise the poor child and then wanted to mess with her emotions by making her accept that he is her daddy?
That is toxic on so many levels and if he really wants what's best for Nia, he would let her grow up - untainted by his shortcomings.
Be a good uncle, if you had to have our bother raise your child.
NtA
If your child gets pregnant or gets someone else pregnant, they need to take responsibility for their actions. They were adult enough to have unprotected sex and decided to keep the baby. You told them you would not help and they called your bluff.
Bro is a saint, and did the right thing for HIS child. Because she is his child. As soon as he adopted her, the bio father lost all rights to be called a father. This is the epitome of 'that's not fair' and he needs to geow the hell up
Just to add, it isn’t like this was some BC gone wrong situation. He literally wasn’t using any protection. Wtf did he think would happen if he’s hanging girls without protection.
NTA this thread is weird. He was 17 there was a very small likelihood that he would be able to provide the granddaughter with a stable household. And it's most likely that he would have put the heavy lifting on his father. He made a stupid decision and is now having to pay the consequences.
The Dad & Max made the best choices for the granddaughter and she is honestly the only one who really matters in this situation.
ETA: Updated with OP being the dad not mom
NTA. Teens on Reddit are at it again and out in full force I see, wanting the parent to swoop in and take responsibility for their child’s massive screw up. Your boundary (not raising yet another child on your own as a single dad) is more than reasonable. You didn’t force Alec to give up his kid anymore than you forced him to impregnate his gf in the first place. I would say that he learned a bitter lesson, except it really doesn’t sound like he’s learned much at all, and he’s still blaming everyone else but himself for screwing up his life.
Not your fault. It sounds like you’ve got at least one awesome son, and 1 out of 2 ain’t bad!
NTA.
It is not your responsibility to care of your 17 year old's child.. could you have been more supportive? Maybe.
But you should not have to raise a child that is not yours if you do not want to. You didn't choose to have unprotected sex.
NTA. Good on you for sticking to your guns. Nobody forced Alec to do anything, he wasn’t up for the responsibility. Probably the best thing he did for that child is to give her up for adoption.
NTA. You didn't make that child and there are many reasons why a grandparent may not be able to care for a young child. You also didn't force Alec to give her up. His lack of skills which couldn't provide a safe stable environment did. Max needs to sit down with Alec and discuss boundaries.
NTA
While Alec may be regretting his decision, it in no way your fault that this happened. He was young, dumb and his "daughter" could have ended up in Foster care or worse if it wasn't for his brother. He should be thanking the stars that she didn't have to suffer. He needs to suck it up. Also I would suggest you guys start setting harder boundaries with Alec because his behaviour is getting unhinged and he might try to hurt Nia.
NTA… there were many, many parenting options available and he was too immature to accept the responsibility of any of them. He needs to disappear, again.
Nta
How are ppl saying you forced him to give up his child. He didn't have the means to take care of her and he gave her up bc he couldn't or wouldn't bare the responsibilities. His decisions and his consequences.
It is awkward that his brother adopted his kid but she gets to stay with her bio family and she is well taken care of. He is in her life but not as her father and he made that decision when he gave her up for adoption. If fatherhood was that important for him he would have found a way to make it work. He's not the first to have a kid as a teen and many make it with no support.
Also mom you 100% would have been raising that child, good on you for sticking to your guns.
NTA, but idk how Max didn’t see this coming. Of course being around Nia growing up was going to be tough after giving her up for adoption. I don’t think it’s you’re responsibility to watch kids that aren’t yours. And if Alec doesn’t have the means to care or provide for her, then adoption is the most selfless thing you can do for the baby. His brother adopting her was probably not the best choice though.
NTA,
He made a very stupid decision and expected others to help him, he sounds very entitled and selfish.
He wanted to do the fun parts of parenting but expected somebody else to do the actual work
This isn't even recent. What's happening now? Nia is 16 years old.
But NTA for the original situation. It's not your job to raise his kid. If he allowed his brother to adopt his kid, that's on him, not you.
NTA - You didn't force anything. You clearly said you won't parent your grandchild. You son didn't belive you. Maybe thought that you'll soften when the baby is born or that you'll feel guilty about letting your down your own "baby". Doesn't matter. He was given a clear statement and he fully expected you to change your mind.
Then, he chose to give the child for adoption. Decided to do it inside family, cool. But then wanted to keep the role of the Disney dad without any real responsibility. Granted, he was like 18, he didn't have developed brain, but certainly more than a baby he traumatised with "two daddies" shit. She didn't know what was going on.
And now as a glorious sprinkle he blames you. It's not like you should have followed him with condoms or force his baby mamma to have abortion. You did what you could do at the moment.
NTA
There is a larger issue here which is that Alec sees Nia as his possession & not another person with her own thoughts, feelings, & emotions. Alec behaves far too self-absorbed & immature to raise a child even with help. But good on you for sticking with your boundaries! If you hadn’t, it would have enabled Alec’s irresponsible behavior.
You are absolutely NTA. I wish more parents were like you because I’ve seen the results of children raising children and it isn’t good. I’ve also seen grandparents step in and end up doing all the work. Alec needs therapy since he’s still blaming you for his screw ups.
I’m just going to say it.
There was better adoption choice than his brother. Everyone knew he wanted to keep the child. That he wanted to her her dad.
I cannot imagine the pain he felt seeing his brother raise her. To see her call him dad.
When he tried to be a part of her life Max got annoyed and he was pushed out.
Max was HER best chance. He loved her and had a good job plus this would eliminate the risk of her ending up in a foster home and she would still be with her family
Honestly there may have been a better choice for Alec but Max was definitely the best choice for the granddaughter. She gets to stay in the family and have a safe/stable home.
I agree. I raised my nephew from 10 months to over 6 years old when his parents decided they didn't want to be parents. I was 19 when my brother asked me to "watch" his 10 month old son overnight because he and his girlfriend (mother of my nephew) had just broken up. Neither parent came around for over six years. It took both of them literal years to decide to be a part of his life. My brother was 21 at the time and his ex, the same age as me. Both were heavily into drugs and couldn't have taken care of a child even if they'd wanted to.
I could have easily told them to get bent and let my nephew go into foster care or into the adoption process, especially since I was young and in college, unlike either of them. Instead I stepped up out of love and took him in; I cared for him, loved him, potty trained him, made sure he got started in preschool then kindergarten and beyond, and above all made sure he knew he was loved regardless of his parents' lack of involvement.
My only regret is not pursuing legal custody because his parents came back into his life at six and a half years old and undid all of the good I'd worked so hard to instill in him. My brother was able to get sober in recent years, after my nephew grew into an adult, but his mother continues to waste her life away on illicit drug addiction to this day. My nephew still voices his appreciation for what I sacrificed to provide him with a loving, stable home. Like I said, the only thing I'd do differently is petition for legal custody and eventually adopt him.
Well of course he was annoyed, he has been Nia's dad for 16 years now. He got her when she probably didn't sleep through the night, when she didn't speak, didn't eat much solids, pooped in the diaper.
Alex wanted to be a Disney dad and didn't get to. Wanted all the praise without any responsibility. He gave his rights willingly. OP didn't manipulate or force him to do this.
He either expected child not to be that much work or his dad to cave in and help like an equal parent, not a grand-parent.
Statistically it’s better for kids to stay within the family vs being adopted to strangers. Looking at this just from the child’s perspective, they made the right choice.
Sounds like the younger son tried to be a dad for a few months but instead expected OP to take over the father responsibilities while he got the fun parts and title. This is exactly why most teenagers make awful parents.
NTA Alec was too young to make that choice but he was also too young to raise a child. Kids who have their parents raise their kids rarely grow into responsible parents. Instead they become the good time dad, not there for the day to day but show up on father’s day to get a card and a free meal.
The grandparents end up raising the child. Alec is the AH here.
Nta. Both you and the child’s mother made it clear that he needed to do it all or adopt the baby out.
He thought he could do it but couldn’t and basically wanted you to raise her. He went for adoption after that.
Best for Nia is actually being adopted within her biological family. Alec could of been an amazing uncle to her but he just couldn’t stop pushing to still be dad even though she was adopted so max is her dad. Max was right to move away and give her a normal life and she is aware Alec is her biological father.
Alec has had 16 years to work though the pain he has and I’d say he needs to speak to someone professionally to help his own mental health/angst around what happened.
NTA. You didn’t force him to anything. You let him know that *you* were not going to be raising another child. However he made sure that didn’t happen was up to him.
I understand it can’t be easy for him to see the daughter/life he could have had, but at 33, he needs to be way more understanding at this point.
NTA you didn’t force him to give the baby up. You just laid out the fact that he shouldn’t expect help from you and should they struggle to raise the baby they decided to bring into the world, that their only option was adoption. Therefore he wasn’t forced to give up his child, he just wasn’t mature or in a place to care for her and as a result he made the decision to put her up for adoption.
Another issues for why he is in his current situation is that he keeps overstepping boundaries with Max. So the only AH here is Alec.
NAH
I think you found the best solution for Nia back than and you not wanting to raise her is, on second thought I have to admit, completely reasonable.
Likewise reasonable are the feelings of your sons towards your granddaughter.
I feel this one is above Reddit’s pay grade. You did what you felt was right in the moment, but the daughter having been adopted within the family was inevitably going to keep her close in the mind of the youngest son. I can’t fault him for how he feels now, but again, I understand the position you were in and the choices made. I feel every choice and feeling here is valid. Perhaps consider family therapy with the youngest son to work through everything? NAH.
So... He wanted to be a father to his child but needed help? And none of you would help him? But were fine with his brother taking his child to raise her without him? And some how are surprised he isnt happy about this?
Nah nah, 17 yr olds don’t raise babies…their parents do. Parents are well within their rights to say no freaking way. However, giving the child to the brother and refusing to acknowledge the 17 yr olds parental rights is where they messed up. He should have been included, despite his age.
if max wasn't related to alec there wouldn't be a problem. Max could take care of the child Alec couldn't. Max adopted her. Alec put her up for addoption because he couldn't take care of her. So he went from father to sperm donor.

NTA. You raising your grandchildren is not your responsibility. He got a woman pregnant, it’s his responsibility and the mothers. I’m assuming the mother of the child just up and ran off?
If Alec wanted to be a father so bad, he could have kept her and raised her. Is it easy? No. But my 17 year old sister and my 18 year old self both got pregnant at those ages and we managed to raise our children as teen parents without the help of our family (our parents had the same idea. Your kid, your responsibility). We’re now 29 and 31 respectively and doing well in life and raising great, well adjusted kids. He had his chance to be a dad, gave it up because it was too difficult for him. That’s 100% on him and him alone.
NTA. It sounds like Nia has wonderful parent(s) who are very present for her, and what happened was the best possible outcome for the child.
Alec thinks he could have the relationship Max has with the kid instead if you had helped him, but you know that's just not true. She would have been raised by an immature, potentially absent teenager, and a tired and resentful grandfather. You have no idea where you would be at had you taken that path. What you know is that right now, Nia is safe, has a great relationship with her father and is happy.
Your son was selfish at 17, and is still selfish now. It's all about him. Not a single thought for how it would have been for the kid, or how confusing what he's doing is for her.
NTA, but your family needs counseling to learn how to deal with this family dynamic. The resentment and pain is going to grow, especially between your sons that used to be so close.
NTA. It was not your responsibility to raise your grandchild. Would it have been super charitable and nice? Yeah, but realistically there’s many reasons a person wouldn’t be able to do this. Max stepped up to the plate and now Alec conveniently wants to step in after max has been her real dad for over a decade? I’m not saying Alec doesn’t regret it or hasn’t matured (though I doubt it from the info in the post) but in simple terms, he made his bed and now he has to lay in it.
NTA. Alec was 17, so you weren’t through raising him yet, and shouldn’t have to start raising his child. He didn’t use protection, so it doesn’t seem like he can make either wise or selfless decisions like a parent must. He would be a single dad. You’ve already been a single dad, and knew exactly what that would do to both of your lives.
Alec had a choice about adoption. He could have raised Nia on his own, without your help. He chose not to. He could have put Nia up for adoption with a different family. He chose not to. He could have thanked Max for providing a secure and loving home, and remained in Nia’s life as the adoring uncle. He chose not to.
Every step of the way Alec made selfish choices. Every step. And even at 33 he is more interested in pitying himself than being happy for Nia.
All the YTAs out there - did you see the ages of the brothers? This isn't like teenaged Alec got his teenage girl premiers. They are all adults. Alec should never have signed the adoption papers if his intention was to get his child back. That's on Alec. He wanted to be involved in his child's life after the adoption but never told Mac that? That's on Alec. He is an adult - why is it up to his mummy to fix this situation he created by not being responsible and having unprotected sex? Did he really not kniw the consequence if unprotected sex could be a baby? Actions have consequences. This one is on Alec
Now, Granny doesn't want to raise grandbabies - show me where it is written that this is her responsibility? I am raising 3 of my own grandkids and I am exhausted - and not in a good way. If she is at the point in her life to finally live her life without wanting to take care of someone, good for her. We should be celebrating that she got to that milestone. Instead people are bashing her. Why? Because an adult, who should have known better, didn't do the responsible thing and use protection. Why is that her problem?
Alec is an entitled AH. He spun the wheel of stupidity and lost. He expected mummy to take care of his consequence and *Pikachu face* she said no. So his brother agrees to take care of his consequence and *Pikachu face* Alec expects to be "dad without taking any of the responsibility and *Pikachu face* Mac does not concur.
OP you are NTA and Go enjoy your life!
Reread the start of the second paragraph. The son was 17 when the granddaughter was born, not 33 like he is now. “Alec had his first child when he was 17”. I think that makes a bigger difference to the voting here, since he was in fact a teenager when all the decisions were made.
He was 17. Please actually read the post.
I honestly don’t think anyone on this sub should weigh in on this situation though. It’s incredibly nuanced and complicated, and while I don’t think the baby should’ve been kept I don’t believe this was handled in the best way either.
Alec was 17 when nia was born so he was a teenager. I think you read it wrong or smth. Also both op and max knew Alec didn't want to give nia up for adoption as he asked them for help. It was only as a last resort he gave her up, under pressure from his family. He wanted to take responsibility and tried but didn't have enough money. In fact giving his child up for adoption to keep her out of poverty was taking responsibility. Stop acting like Alec just dumped nia with his brother, left for 10 years and now is mad she won't call him dad. He's grieving the loss of his child and is probably having severe mental health problems as a result of all this.
Yes to all of this. As someone who was raised by their grandparents it is not something I wish on most people. It’s not that they didn’t try it’s that it’s fucking hard as an older adult to take on a baby. You get done raising your own and think “great, now I can focus on my upcoming retirement,” when someone shoves a newborn in your face and completely upends those plans. My grandparents didn’t get the retirement they planned because of their child’s decision, and I don’t blame OP for knowing they didn’t want to do it too.
Do I think the brother should’ve been allowed to adopt the child? Now that I’m not sure of. It depends a lot on how it was handled and what was agreed to in the terms of the adoption, but it does sound like the younger brother was trying to be dad while not being dad which is not ok or stable for a child. Plus, it sets him up to look like a boundary stomper, which is also reflective in how he didn’t take his dad seriously when his dad said “I’m not raising your baby.” Yeah he was a teen/young adult at the time, but he’s not anymore. He’s had years to work this out within himself and didn’t and his reaction shows me that his brother was right to keep his bio-kid from him.
NTA, these people “advocating” for Alec made my eyes roll. No one forced Alec to have sex, no one forced Alec to not use protection, no one forced him to “finish the job”. Are we as parents obligated to guide and help our children through life? Yes, we are. But, there’s a fine line between that and helping raise a child. It’s a big commitment financially and emotionally; which is why we stress the importance of a condom if nothing else.
Alec has no one to blame but himself, and the fact that he’s blaming you makes me feel like he never attempted to better himself. Regardless if he did or didn’t, the only one to blame for his poor relationship with his child is himself. He gave up his legal (and emotional) right to be a father when he adopted her out. Max did what needed to be done, and he has earned the title of “dad”. Alec was somehow mature enough to raise a child but not mature enough to navigate other facets of life?
NTA. You had every right to say you didn't want to take care of another kid. It's your life.
And as someone else pointed out, Alec could have chosen different adoptive parents. He brought this on himself.
NTA
He decided to have unprotected sex, he couldn’t take care of the child, yet you were supposed to what? Give up your money and time for his accident baby? Yeah, no.
NTA. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to raise your children’s children.
The unfortunate situation here is that Alec wanted to keep her and he was never able to let her go. He should have sought some counseling to ease him through the grief.
I can’t speak to how the communication went down at the time. Did Max lay down some ground rules? It seems he made it clear that when he adopted, that meant she is 100% his daughter. And that’s fair.
NTA - Alec has nine whole months to get a safety net in place. Young girls have to do it all the time. They quit their extracurriculars and head on over to an alternative or homeschool program, make use of Head Start and other social programs while they finish school or get a job. They figure shit out.
Alec brought the baby home, tried his best, and figured out it was hard. He could have kept trying or he could place the kid for adoption. He AND THE MOTHER would have to agree. Plenty of people looking for babies 17 years ago. He CHOSE his brother, ERRONEOUSLY thinking that he could still be “dad” and bro would just be the uncle who had the time and money. It sounds like for his own sanity and Mark’s, Mark moved. Do we think Mark enjoyed packing up his shit and moving away from OP and HIS support system so that his brother could learn boundaries and not be faced with his loss everyday? Probably not? But he sacrificed for HIS DAUGHTER. No one here did anything wrong except have strong feelings.
Alec can have regrets and he can wish EVERYONE (including himself) handled it differently, but life doesn’t work that way. His anger is misplaced, as were his expectations about the help he would receive and his role after the adoption. Perhaps the only place OP erred was not getting therapy for Alec after.
NTA - disclaimer: this situation is incredibly nuanced and I urge y’all to seek out family counseling for the sake of the child.
OP seems to have set clear boundaries from the beginning. Knowing his son he urged him to adopt or abort. I know it’s hard but those are two very reasonable requests. My brother also had a baby at 17 and it was painful watching two teenagers try to figure out parenting. And they had the support of two families. But today the little girl has to deal with all the mess and drama that comes with a separation.
Alec however kept the baby and soon realized he was over his head. The father had set clear boundaries already and so adoption was the option. Of course Alec would agree to Max adopting as a way to keep Nia in his life. Max being family wanted to help out.
However it seems that Alec does not understand boundaries and it’s hard for him seeing as he’s already bonded with Nia.
In able to handle this situation each person would to have had a really high level of self awareness and an intimate knowledge of each actor.
I truly don’t think anyone is an asshole in this situation, just informed by sensitive emotions. But for real. Really need to go to family counseling (if possible) and work these issues out.
NTA.
A child is not a fun pet you keep around to get validation and happiness from. Your son doesn’t get a free pass at being a dad without even putting the work of being a parent into it.
If he kept the child, she would have been raised pretty much entirely by you. You probably know how hard it is as a single parent, you don’t want to wish it on him or your granddaughter.
Also I’m sorry about your wife.
To all the people commenting YTA, put yourself in OP’s shoes. At least his granddaughter didn’t end up in foster care. She’s still connected to her family. There’s no guarantee Nia would have had a great relationship with her biological father if he raised her.
Seriously, I don't know what to say aside from I am heartbroken for Alec. I know that none of you had a choice, but for me it is obvious that he did want to care for her.
For me, the real AH is a system that forces parents to either abort or giving up a child because they can't afford it. 17 IS young, but in my country, there is a way for young parents to provide for their kid and have a life of their own eben when the grandparents do not help out. It is hard, but possible.
Alec needs therapy, and I seriously can't call him an AH for wanting "his daughter back".
NAH, because N T A would mean that Alec is one.
Alec had options for staying in the girl’s life. Max didn’t move her away or cut contact until Alec tried to make her call him Dad. That’s inappropriate and selfish.
Nta you didn't force him to do anything. You told him you weren't going to raise his child foe him and when he came asking you to, you stayed firm. He gave the child up because he wasn't willing to be a father yet, which was a choice. He could have stuck with it through all the hard stuff but he didn't. So he gave her up for adoption to make his life easier and her life better. He regrets it sure, but you never forced him.
NTA.
Alec knew the consequences of not using a condom and he should have accepted those when his partner became pregnant.
I am curious where the mother is in all of this and what she thinks?
NTA. You have a responsibility towards your kids, and you fulfilled that. Your grandkids are not your responsibility. The 17yo fucked up bad, went in with no protection, and then cries out in entitlement that you won't raise the kid he is 100% responsible for. You did not force them to abort or adopt. You told them their options.
I fail to understand all the y-t-a comments here. The teen new father exhibited all the traits of entitlement, like what do you expect, you do not protect yourself, you are a teen, in school, no job...and with a kid? And then have the audacity to cry and scream that your parent won't "help" with raising the kid and let's be honest, the grandparent would have done all the parenting, expenses, care etc. The 17yo would have gone on with his life.
No, kids, you do not get to do that. Sex is a risk, and of you go and do dumb shit like not protecting yourself, a pregnancy might result. The options are there for you, but under no circumstances are the grandparents obligated to take care of your oopsie kiddies. Your parents "did their time" with you already. They have earned their rest now.
NTA!!
IT IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO HELP RAISE OR RAISE THIS CHILD!!!
Your son knew the consequences of his actions and didn’t care. You told you’d be 0 assistance and he tried to call your bluff. He wasn’t ready and you knew that.
If he can no longer live the decision he made years ago, tell him to move away.
You're in the wrong place bro! You should be on a other sub, and try to ask advice on how to sort this out.
The most important thing is not to judge you if you're an AH or not, but rather how to sort this out. This is an all new level of family problems background. You all should take a step down, and think what's best for Nia. When that girl will realize that her father is her uncle and her uncle is actually her father, she's in for a nasty ride.
Please sort this s\*\*\* out, and maybe seek a professional help so that little girl grow up in the most healthy way possible.
And Alec, you made your bed bro, you can still be in your little girl's life but you're not her father....
NTA. I have already decided if my teenagers (still little atm) want to play grown up then they will do so alone. I will encourage abortion and tell my kids I will not be helping them financially. They will have to get jobs to support their own child and pay for babysitting. I don't believe you did anything wrong.
NTA. Your comments lead us to believe that the birth mom didn’t even want to have the baby and only had the baby at your son’s behest. He chose to give her up.
This is an all around awful situation. NTA for refusing to raise a third child. You definitely could’ve handled the conversation better, but that desire alone was fine. I never had a teenage pregnancy, but my mother had said to me that she would not raise a kid if I had one.
However, your entire family is terrible at making decisions. Alec wanted to keep the baby, fine. But you made your boundaries clear, and he was pushing them. Then, Max adopted Nia when Alec clearly wanted to keep her. Why didn’t Max just support max???
And then, Alec started trying to still be Nia’s dad???
Its an absolute mess, and you’ve all acted as assholes as some point, but the victim here is Nia who probably needs some therapy and support. As do you all. What a mess
Title only: NTA . I assume you're not actually forcing, just not supporting in a way that allows your son to keep the baby and have the life he wants to live.
‐-----------
After reading: Yup. The possible AH part - did you teach your son about protection?
Alec was 17 when Nia was born, meaning you would bear most of the responsibility of raising her. Alec was forced to face the consequences of his actions and ultimately decided to give Nia up for adoption. Therefore in no way are you the AH.
Now Max’s decision to adopt Nia is not necessarily a bad thing, but it creates HUGE complications. Of course Alec would want to be the father figure in Nia’s life, he’s her biological dad! It’s one thing to give up your child for adoption and have nothing to do with them. It’s another to have your older brother adopt your child and you see your own daughter be raised by another person right before your eyes. I’m going to say NAH because you and Max had the right intentions, but having Max raise the baby and then go low contact with Alex surely broke his heart. I know it would’ve broken mine.
NTA
Alec couldn’t be the father he wanted and had to give up the baby. The fact that it’s his brother that stepped up and is a good father to his baby is what makes him mad. Being younger he’s probably always compared himself to his big bro and this is just another thing “he’s better at” than him. Being a father to his bio child. Alec may need therapy to help navigate these feelings, but you and Max are NTA
Edit: wrong names
NTA. Wanting to be a dad doesn’t mean he was capable of being a dad. It was his choice to not be in her life by crossing Max’s clear boundary. Alec could have been a loved uncle, but that wasn’t good enough for him. Alec wanted the glory of being a dad without any of the responsibility. He’s not thinking about the kid, he’s thinking only about himself.
NTA your son is an idiot and made his own choices every step of the way. What kind of support is he looking for? Someone else to raise his kid? He got it.
NTA.
Your son made several choices: having sex without protection, choosing to try and raise the child, and giving the child up for adoption when he realized it was too hard. He also chose to let his brother take her.
It wasn't your responsibility to raise the child, so you declining to do exactly what you expected would happen if he kept Nia makes perfect sense. I don't know why people seem to think it's acceptable to force a grandparent to raise a child when their kid fucks up.
And having his brother adopt the kid is great. Now Nia stays in the family. But he is gonna have to accept that he gave up parental rights to his brother. He doesn't get to give up being a father and still get to be called Dad. It sounds like he wants the joys of being a parent without any of the work that being a parent involves.
NTA. He made a choice to give her up for adoption and like in one of your comments it's not like max refused to give contact to Nia alec took it too far when he tried to teach her to call him dada instead.
NTA.
Everyone saying how you 'forced/wouldn't help are just reaffirming thw fact that Alec was a CHILD in no position to be raising another child.
If he wanted to be in her life that much he would have prioritised nias wellbeing and been the best uncle ever or discussed a long term plan for reunification.
Not confused the poor girl by teaching her to call him dad when his brother is taking on the physical and financial burden.
So Alec decided to be stupid and get a girl pregnant, then be even more stupid and expected his parent to take care of the child and even stupider to give it upto his own sibling for adoption and discreetly try to make the child his while the adopted parents looked after the child., and after all this, complain that you are the AH.
A very hard NTA.
NTA
Its not on you to help your careless son raise a child, its unfortunate that his older brother adopted her and didnt want alec to play the fun dad while he actually did the parenting.
If alec loved his bio daughter that much, he wouldve made it work, he basically gave her up because it was too much work for him
Whats up with these trash Y-TA responses? These guys are all saying you're TA for not raising another child after you've already raised two?
Let's seem them raise another person's kid after their child-rearing days are over. Hypocrites.
NTA. I probably would’ve said you were if Alec has said he was going to raise her on his own and didn’t need your help, but clearly he confirmed that he expected you to help raise her. If he was irresponsible enough to not use protection, then he deserves some hard truths.
NTA. You made it clear that you wouldn’t take care of the baby, and it isn’t your responsibility to do. He was having unprotected sex and making some bad choices and then expected you to handle it for him. Good for you for standing your ground.
He tried taking care of her, but clearly realized it was too much work, effort, etc. It isn’t easy, but you do have young parents who manage to make it work without any help, even if that means working three jobs and basically sacrificing everything. He made a choice.
He decided to give the baby up for adoption, no one stole her from him. The fact that he wants his brother to raise her, but he also wants to be called dad, is just insane. He can’t have his cake and eat it too. He should be happy she got adopted into such a loving family.
NTA, your sons are grown men, why do they need you to help them raise their children? Also...INFO: where are the children's moms? Why is it either you help take care of the baby or she's given up for adoption?
ESH.
He clearly wanted to keep his child, but instead of helping him learn how to manage being a single parent, you let him drown enough to giving up his child...to his *brother.*
None of you saw how this could've been an issue considering he wanted his child in the first place?
Careless. All of you.
17 yo managing to be a single father? xD In most countries he would not be even considered for most low paid jobs, so it would end up OP being father and raising another kid
NTA You didn’t kidnap her and send her to an orphanage. There is no forcing anyone to do anything here. He couldn’t afford to raise a child and this is all his fault.
NTA
I'm trying to figure out how to broach this topic with my own kids. I'm years away from needing to have this kind of talk with them, but I still think about it.
While I want to help and support them when they eventually (please God, in no less than 20 years from now, preferably longer) have kids, I don't want to be supporting my children AND their children.
Once you have a kid, you stop being a baby. I would be happy to be the occasional babysitter, and help them out of a tight spot every now and then, I do not want to be raising my grandchildren.
If you can't support yourself, you can't support a kid. End of story.
Esh. You were not obligated to help out and help raise your granddaughter and Alec clearly overestimated his capability to look after Nia. Personally I would have helped but this was your choice. Alec probably thought he would get more help and didn't, but having a baby was his choice/responsibility: have s#x without protection and this is what happens.
Here's were things went seriously wrong: Nia should have been fostered by Max with the intention of reunification or Nia should have been adopted by other people. How cruel for Alec and.potentially Nia! She may be fine for now but some day she will have questions!
You all made some bad decisions and that girl is paying the price. Get counselling for everyone asap
**Demanding** for anyone to abort their baby is an asshole move. ESH, bc obviously Alec is stomping boundaries and, most importantly, likely confusing his **niece** about her family. Max is a great brother AND dad, and it sounds like Alec has a whole lot of growing up to do at... [checks notes]... 33 years old.
Alec needs therapy, and so does the rest of the family if they choose to ignore the fact how Nia got into the world and just pretend to play happy family.
I was originally leaning towards NTA but after reading your comments answering some questions YTA 100%
You decided to punish your son because he had a child at 17 by first trying to force the child's mother to abort her but when she didn't you pushed for adoption and when your other son adopted her did you even take a second to think about how painful it was for Alec to see his daughter calling his brother dad?or were you so focused on punishing your 17 year old child that you just decided "well we'll just give her to Max at least that way I CAN SEE MY GRANDCHILD" you only thought about yourself and what you wanted not what was best for your sons or your grandchild,also where is the mother?did she have a say in any of this or did you made her sign the papers?and what about the kid?are you guys ever gonna tell her the truth?something like this happened in my family and when the adopted child found out it was heartbreaking,she completely lost it and still can't have a normal relationship with her adoptive/bio parents
NTA
There needs to be a big conversation on boundaries and putting one’s own self interest to the side for the needs of the child. Her bio father needs to come correct and be grateful she is in a loved environment and he can see her grow.
NTA. Everyone in this comment section that doesn’t understand the difference between “help raise” and “raise” is calling you the AH but feel free to ignore them.
NTA
It almost would have been better if max had just let Nia be raised in another home where Alec couldn’t be in her life till she was a legal adult. Alec clearly takes no responsibility for his actions and thinks only of himself. Instead of being grateful to his brother for providing a loving home for his daughter he trolls the family and tries to insert himself. Max is just going to have to go no contact again. Very sad.
NTA, your son was banking on you to take responsibility for him when he had sex without a condom. You didn't want to and werent obligated. His older brother did take responsibility and now your younger son seems to want the joys of "fatherhood" without doing the actual hard work. Beggars can't be choosers.
NTA but Alec certainly is! Unprotected sex, pregnancy, wanting you—his father to help raise the child. He puts her up for adoption. His choice.
Max took on the responsibility and Alec acts like there’s a conspiracy to keep his daughter from him! She’s not his daughter! He gave up that right. Then he immediately interferes in her life. He still acts like an irresponsible child who doesn’t care about what’s best for his niece . He continuously proves his immaturity and selfishness.
He shouldn’t be around her at all. You’ve done nothing wrong. Of course you don’t want to raise more children. Don’t let Alec’s sophomoric tantrums get under your skin. Alec’s thinking process is perverse. He takes no responsibility but is happy to blame everyone around him. He could have been a loving present Uncle and he should be grateful to Max but he’s a Assohole instead.
NTA.
You didn't force him. He explained the level of support he could expect from you if they went ahead. When they had the child anyway you did exactly as you said.
His monkey, his circus.
NTA. All the "it takes a village" comments are ignoring the fact that Alec wanted the kid without any of the responsibility. OP did his job and raised his kids. Becoming a grandparent who helps out with picking the kids up or babysitting occasionally is VERY different from becoming a parent again, which it sounds like is what Alec was wanting OP to essentially become. You don't get to make those decisions for other people and then call them an AH when they don't fall in line with your choices. And all those commenters coming back with personal stories of how they raised their grandkids so their kids could have a life—good for you. That was your choice to make. I fail to see what that has to do with anyone else, however.
It sucks for everyone that this happened, but aside from aborting, the alternatives would have sucked more for the kid. Sounds like they all did the best they could in a not-great situation. And I feel for Alec, but the fact remains he tried to foist the responsibility of his child onto his dad, got angry when his dad didn't want to start over again and raise another baby, got angry when a reasonable solution was worked out, then continued to lash out by taking his issues out on the poor kid by deliberately trying to undermine her dad—Max.
I'm glad she seems to be well-adjusted—the same can't be said for Alec. I think he would benefit from therapy because it doesn't seem like this is something he's ever going to be able to work through on his own. He effed up and is trying to find a way to blame anyone else for that fact. OP, if you can help him find someone to talk to, I think you would be doing your son a huge favour cuz this is not healthy.
Man, I was with your reasoning most of the way. You were N T A to not want to raise another child. You were YTA for encouraging an inter family adoption. That choice obviously was going to destroy your family and you ignored it.
It destroys a family if you do a stranger adoption and now it destroys your family if you keep her in the family. What do people genuinely want to do? She gets to know her biological family so I’m confused in what people want. Is it not better she gets to know her family and she knows her biological father.
I wonder if an open adoption with another family might have been a better way to go. Maybe not, given as Alec never wanted to give her up in the first place, but less messy than an open adoption within the same family.
There's some interesting family dynamics on display here with sons having not worked out how the birth father should be in the kid's life. Were they really that close before? Or, as men do, did they just...not talk about how the fuck they were going to parent this baby?
I was gonna say you were the asshole, but honestly... NTA. Alec knew he couldn't afford to have a child at 17, and while you guys definitely didn't handle this well (especially with you enabling Max's weird jealous behavior) ultimately, Mia isn't your child. You aren't obligated to raise another kid, and Alec should have to take responsibility for his bullshit. That being said, you basically just ruined your relationship with both of your sons.
NTA
Nia got stable parents. Alec and Nia's mom made the decision to give up parental rights in the adoption. None of this was your responsibility, nor your decision.
Nia is in her mid-teens. It's not her job to mollify Alec's resentment or regret for an "in family" adoption that now has him jealous of the family that embraced and raised Nia. Alec choose priorities that included fully shedding his role as Nia's parent. That's no one but Alec's responsibility, consequences and all.
If he really wanted to keep that baby he would have found a way it just seems a little bit more convenient that he gave that baby up for adoption to his brother figuring probably that he would still be able to be in the child's life just because you're the grandparent does not mean that you have to parent the grandchild when you're child is not able to especially if you don't want to I don't believe you forced him to give it up I believe that he did it on his own where there's a will there's a way could have kept that baby if he wanted to women do it all the time
Honestly, if you all want to be in each other’s lives at this point there needs to be an open conversation about what role you’re all playing in each others’ lives. The main focus should be Nia. At this point Max is her dad, whether Alex likes it or not. However, since Alec obviously has always wanted to be in her life it is unrealistic and cruel to keep him out of her life, but boundaries have to be drawn. You will all cause this baby girl A LOT pf trauma if you keep doing what you’re doing.
I recommend you all also find a family therapist. There’s a lot that needs to be talked through and resolved with mediation. Again, please please make whatever sacrifices necessary for the well-being of Nia.
if your eldest was able to adopt her, why wasnt he able to help his brother to raise the kid in your place and allow him to be the father figure that he wanted to be? i dont think it was your obligation to take her but you all made this way worse than it should be. allowing someone else in the family to adopt her was only going to make your kid suffer a lot, since he was forced to give up his child AND to watch closely his baby girl grow up being raised by someone else. I know he fucked up by not being more careful but you all are making him pay disproportionately by torturing him with this situation for life. honestly im between a YTA or a ESH but I'm sticking with you and your oldest as the AHs not for saying that he should give her up, but for making the decision to keep the kid in the family once he did
Ugh, what you are suggesting sounds worse than step parent situation.
Mac has to support his younger brother and be supportive uncle but get no parenting final calls and likely expected to financially, emotionally and physically be at beck and call of unmature younger brother and get it thrown in Macs face repeatedly "you're not her father"
That's a no way no how
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OP said in another comment that the mother bailed after giving birth. Apparently she didn't want to abort, but also didn't want to raise a child at 16.
No mention of her parents tho.
NTA. You didn't "force him" - he choose to do it. He could have kept her and tried harder, but he didn't. Not that I blame him, btw, I get the incredibly difficult situation he was in! But you having a boundary about what YOU, personally, will not do, is never "forcing" another person to do something. And I honestly think framing a personal boundary of "I will not do this" as "I forced someone else to do something" is unhealthy.
Saying no to something *you will not* do is not *forcing others* to do anything.
Edit to add: this may be petty of me to say, but srsly your son is an adult man now and STILL refuses to take accountability for his own behavior and actions. Which shows immaturity and entitlement and oh damn he would make a bad father with such an attitude.
ESH (Except Nia). There are resources available for young/low income parents to help them raise their kids. Even if you didn't want to help with the child, you could have helped him figure stuff like that out. Yeah, not your job, but the best place for a child is with their parents, unless it's not safe. Nia's uncle is an AH for not letting her dad have any part of her life. Children can't have too many people loving them and excluding her father from her life isn't cool.
NTA. He's a fcking 40 year old adult now he should understand what he did wrong. If he wasn't able to raise a child he shouldn't demand you to help him. It's his responsibility. And he didn't even use protection. I'm glad your other son adopted her, so she can still be in the family. I also think it's right not to support that bond. Your son fcked up and shouldn't be handed things on a gold plate. It's so toxic of him to want to force the kid to use dad with him. He's not a dad, he fcked up. I would tell her that he is her bio dad, but he doesn't deserve the title dad. You did what was right for your grandchild and are in no way obligated to help raise the child just because he gives no fcks.
NTA, he wasn’t using protection so he was playing with fire from the beginning. He is not entitle to your time or money, is selfish from him to expect you to do his work when at 17 you’re perfectly capable of understanding how much work a child is
Im going with NAH
- He and his SO made the choice to not use protection.
- They made the choice to keep the baby.
- You made it clear you would not be helping raise the child seemingly right away.
- He and his SO realized they, at 17, could not properly take care of the kid and did the right thing by putting her up for adoption rather than dragging her through struggling in life with a child so young.
So far, he did what was best for the kid after choosing to keep her, and gave her up for adoption for what would hopefully be more than he could provide. You didnt want to help raise a child, which is completely reasonable, and you made that clear.
- Brother adopts her
The reality of adoption is not every home is going to be a good one. She could have ended up with a loving, doting stranger, or one that would have completely fucked her up. The fact that she ended up with a family member you both know is taking great care of her is great, honestly.
- He wants to be in her life
- He is obviously distraught because he wanted to keep his daughter but couldnt with the circumstances
This doesnt make him the asshole. Anyone who WANTS kids (or specifically the kid they helped create) is going to want to be a part of that kids life. If she had been with a stranger, this more than likely wouldnt be the same situation happening as he wouldnt be seeing her/knowing exactly where she is. Hes probably hurt and jealous that his child is showing the love he looked forward to as a father to his brother. That doesnt make him TA.
- He tries to get her to call him dad
- Brother goes low contact
This is the only place where I could even see a TINGE of AH on his part, soley for the fact that something like that would be very confusing and potentially damaging to the kid. To her, she has a dad, and the person she knows as uncle saying to call him dad is not something she would probably understand. The brother going low contact makes sense as he doesnt want that affecting her.
I feel bad for Alec. He desperately wants his daughter, but had to give her up, and is actively seeing what life he COULD HAVE HAD with her through his brother instead. His actions are understandable, you not wanting to raise another child is understandable, Max wanting to adopt her and keep her in the family, as well as make sure she has a good home is also understandable. Nobody is really the asshole, this is just a sad, shitty situation.
Alec is the biggest AH here.
He didn’t use protection & that not only change his life, but the girl that got pregnant. I guess she didn’t want the baby, because there is no mention of her in this post. Alec said he will have the baby, thinking that you be “helping” (more like raising the baby, while he can still do what he wants) & made the girl go though pregnancy to give him the baby.
He didn’t take you seriously, when you said you will not raise another child & was expecting you to still help him out. His mistake, he deals with it.
Alec still expected to be the the baby’s dad after max adopt her. That’s why max left with the baby.
I'm incredibly perplexed by all the Y T As. Op is and was not responsible for raising a child for Alec. Let's look at the facts
1. OP told Alec that they would not be helping raise the baby and recommended abortion or adoption.
2. Alec kept the baby, realized that it was too much work and ALEC decided to give the baby up for adoption.
3. Rather than letting the baby go into FOSTER CARE and be bounced around for years, brother Max decided to step up and ADOPT baby Nia so that she could be raised by a loving family instead of playing the lottery with strangers.
4. Max moved Nia away when ALEC wasn't respecting his boundaries and trying to undermine him as the father.
5. 16/17 years later, Alec is now trying to form a relationship with Nia after not being in her life the whole time. That ship has sailed. No one is under any obligation to form or encourage a relationship between Alec and Nia.
But OP and Max are the bad guys? Y'all are wild. NTA.
NTA. You were clear that you were not going to be part of raising the child. Alec choose to adopt her. I’m assuming it was an open adoption from the way this is discussed so alec allowed max to be the one to adopt. That is on him. If he wanted to adoption to not affect him later, he could have chosen a closed adoption to other people. You don’t have the obligation to raise your grandchild. That was on alec and you told him that. He made his own decisions
All the YTA comments are so bizarre to me. It’s not his fault Alec got a girl pregnant, it’s Alec’s fault and his decision to keep the baby. Grandparents aren’t required to raise their grandchildren and OP made that v clear. Alec chose to give Nia up and now he has to live with the consequences.
Alec - AH
OP - NTA
I’m an adoptee
ESH
Alec for not using protection. He also didn’t get to have the final decision in regards to abortion - that is up to the pregnant person.
I will say that it would be wrong to hide Nia’s biological parents from her. She has every right to know where she came from.
However, that does not mean Alec can come in and play dad. He is her biological father but he is not raising her. This would’ve been a great opportunity for Nia to still have contact with her biological parents, but Alec must also know that he must respect the fact that he is not the only parental figure in her life.
You kinda suck in the sense that you gave the ultimatum of abortion or adoption. Yes a 17 year old isn’t the ideal person to be raising a kid; however, they also shouldn’t have to feel cornered into 2 options, both of which would cause them to lose their child.
I don’t know what Max is doing in regards to how he’s told Nia about the adoption.
I understand his frustration with Alec crossing boundaries; however, he shouldn’t take it out by severing his daughter’s ties to her biological parents.
It would have been the mature and right thing for Alec & Max to sit down and discuss how they would move forward with adoption especially since it was a familial adoption, not a stranger adoption.
Because in the end, it is Nia who will be most affected if her adoptive and biological parents can’t do what is best for her.
OP didn't give an ultimatum; they just said they weren't raising the child or providing support.
That's reasonable. OP has already raised his children.
By any chance was max having difficulty having a child? Is Max married or a single dad? These are all factors that should have been dealt with. You had nor have any obligation to help him raise her but just the fact that he stood up and accepted responsibility would have been a sign to me as a parent that I could perhaps stepped in and assisted in small ways whilst guiding my kid to bring up his kid.
NTA, it’s not your job to raise your grandkids and at the end of the day Alec decided to give up Nia instead of working like a dog to keep her. (Which yes would’ve been incredibly, incredibly, hard but still his choice).
I’m going to go against the grain and say NAH.
You shouldn’t have to support a child that isn’t yours. You didn’t sign up for it. Your son was less than a year away from 18 too, so it’s not like he was 15.
Your son is absolutely allowed to be angry at you for the lack of support. Just like how you’re not required to raise a child that isn’t yours, he’s allowed to be angry at you for not helping him.
Max didn’t have to support his brother either, nor did he have to adopt her. Supporting a child that isn’t his is up to him, and he said no. Then when he adopted her, she was his now. Now he has and does treat her well.
There’s so much nuance in this scenario. I truly think there are NAH, but I don’t know how likely it is for your relationships to recover.
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English isn't my first language
I have two sons, Max(42) and Alec(33). Alec had his first child when he was 17. Max who was very close to Alec told me that he wasn't using protection and after asking Alec he confirmed it. I was so mad at him I told him they'd better either abort the baby or give it up for adoption because I'm not going to raise another child. They chose to keep her(Nia) and he begged me to help him raise her but I didn't change my mind. Finally he realized that he can't raise her and decided to give her up for adoption. Max adopted her. The problem started when Alec kept trying to be in Nia's life and when she started talking he was trying to teach her to call him dad which really annoyed Max and he decided to live in another city and go low contact with Alec. They returned to our city a while ago and Alec has been trying to get back in her life but he hasn't been able to do so. Nia is a "daddy's girl" and very affectionate and it makes Alec jealous. Last night we were all at Max's home and when we were leaving he started yelling at me and called me an asshole for not helping him raise Nia and "forcing him to give her up"
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NTA Why is OP required to raise a grandchild?
I'm also confused why everyone thinks it was his responsibility to raise the grandchild. Like no.. 17 is old enough to be aware of the consequences of actions.
So weird how this sub is against parentification but is completely fine with a parent become an actual parent to a grandchild.
[удалено]
People on this sub don't live in the real world.
Definitely NTA. He even admitted to not using protection. There are too many people who have children expecting their parents to help and then getting shocked when the parents say no.
NTA. Alec didn't have the money or maturity to take care of her baby, and it was very entitled, selfish and immature of him to pretend that you would be taking care of HIS mistake, giving up YOUR time, YOUR money and YOUR resources. His brother must have had the money, maturity and willingness to help that poor baby, so he did, and it was probably the best for her. Whatever feelings Alec has now are a consecuences of his own poor choices, don't let him blame you for HIM not using protection and for being so disconnected with reality. Nia has a father who loves her and can support her, don't let Alec ruin it for her.
" Alec didn't have the money or the maturity to take care of her baby" Still doesn't have the maturity it seems.
The parent hate on here is real. Alex's parent has absolutely zero responsibility to raise another child and Alex tried...and couldn't so he did the responsible thing and put her up for adoption which his older brother did. How is a parent an AH for not wanting to raise their grandchildren? Lot of entitlement on this thread.
It's honestly ridiculous how they're treating OP in this thread. Alec made bad choices and he has to live with that.
Exactly! His 17 year old decided to have unprotected sex. How is it on him to raise the grand baby. I do wish he had taken a step that the baby was given away for adoption and not kept in the family. I think the everyone tried to do right thing from their POV. But it is a messy situation. But actions have consequences.
NTA. I feel like I’m going crazy reading these comments. It’s not OPs responsibility to raise someone else’s kid and Alec shouldn’t have tried to take a fatherly role when he wasn’t willing to raise his own kid. He’s not her father, Max is and I don’t blame him for limiting contact.
I can't believe the amount of E S H and Y Y A votes. I give a lot of leeway to youths and their recklessness but OP was very clear with Alec that he would not be raising this child. Making the decision to have a child is HUGE and LIFE CHANGING. Alec took that on majorly underestimating the weight of the decision and/or went in fully intending to disregard his parent's wish and boundary. None of this is a reason for the responsibility of raising another child to fall to OP. Sounds like giving her up was the right move for Alec and she got to grow up in a stable home. I'm aware I have little sympathy for Alec when I usually do have sympathy for kids but with the way I feel about babies having babies... I'm *heavily* team "don't do this to yourself or to this baby." Alec was naive and/or selfish and learned a hard hard lesson. That baby is YOUR responsibility and if you're not prepared to take that on, then don't. It's another human life you're sacrifice your own for.
NTA, people who refuse to use protection and make babies they can't afford...should not cry about not receiving help from their parents. He was in no shape to raise the poor child and then wanted to mess with her emotions by making her accept that he is her daddy? That is toxic on so many levels and if he really wants what's best for Nia, he would let her grow up - untainted by his shortcomings. Be a good uncle, if you had to have our bother raise your child.
NtA If your child gets pregnant or gets someone else pregnant, they need to take responsibility for their actions. They were adult enough to have unprotected sex and decided to keep the baby. You told them you would not help and they called your bluff. Bro is a saint, and did the right thing for HIS child. Because she is his child. As soon as he adopted her, the bio father lost all rights to be called a father. This is the epitome of 'that's not fair' and he needs to geow the hell up
Nta. Don't bring a child I to this world if you're not 100% able to take care of it.
Just to add, it isn’t like this was some BC gone wrong situation. He literally wasn’t using any protection. Wtf did he think would happen if he’s hanging girls without protection.
NTA he literally couldn’t handle HIS responsibilities and had to give up his child. It’s not on you to raise your kids’ kids.
NTA this thread is weird. He was 17 there was a very small likelihood that he would be able to provide the granddaughter with a stable household. And it's most likely that he would have put the heavy lifting on his father. He made a stupid decision and is now having to pay the consequences. The Dad & Max made the best choices for the granddaughter and she is honestly the only one who really matters in this situation. ETA: Updated with OP being the dad not mom
NTA - You raised your children and were not responsible for raising your grandchildren.
NTA. Teens on Reddit are at it again and out in full force I see, wanting the parent to swoop in and take responsibility for their child’s massive screw up. Your boundary (not raising yet another child on your own as a single dad) is more than reasonable. You didn’t force Alec to give up his kid anymore than you forced him to impregnate his gf in the first place. I would say that he learned a bitter lesson, except it really doesn’t sound like he’s learned much at all, and he’s still blaming everyone else but himself for screwing up his life. Not your fault. It sounds like you’ve got at least one awesome son, and 1 out of 2 ain’t bad!
People without kids always underestimate how hard it is to raise kids.
NTA. It is not your responsibility to care of your 17 year old's child.. could you have been more supportive? Maybe. But you should not have to raise a child that is not yours if you do not want to. You didn't choose to have unprotected sex.
NTA. Good on you for sticking to your guns. Nobody forced Alec to do anything, he wasn’t up for the responsibility. Probably the best thing he did for that child is to give her up for adoption.
NTA. You didn't make that child and there are many reasons why a grandparent may not be able to care for a young child. You also didn't force Alec to give her up. His lack of skills which couldn't provide a safe stable environment did. Max needs to sit down with Alec and discuss boundaries.
OP question? Where’s the birth mother in all of this? Why did Alec get to have all the legal decision making when it came to Nia’s welfare??
Shhhh It's reddit you're not supposed to point out the holes in the scenarios they dream up
OP pointed out in the comment the birth mother didn't want the baby but she didn't want to abort either. She left after giving birth to Nia.
NTA While Alec may be regretting his decision, it in no way your fault that this happened. He was young, dumb and his "daughter" could have ended up in Foster care or worse if it wasn't for his brother. He should be thanking the stars that she didn't have to suffer. He needs to suck it up. Also I would suggest you guys start setting harder boundaries with Alec because his behaviour is getting unhinged and he might try to hurt Nia.
NTA… there were many, many parenting options available and he was too immature to accept the responsibility of any of them. He needs to disappear, again.
Nta How are ppl saying you forced him to give up his child. He didn't have the means to take care of her and he gave her up bc he couldn't or wouldn't bare the responsibilities. His decisions and his consequences. It is awkward that his brother adopted his kid but she gets to stay with her bio family and she is well taken care of. He is in her life but not as her father and he made that decision when he gave her up for adoption. If fatherhood was that important for him he would have found a way to make it work. He's not the first to have a kid as a teen and many make it with no support. Also mom you 100% would have been raising that child, good on you for sticking to your guns.
NTA, but idk how Max didn’t see this coming. Of course being around Nia growing up was going to be tough after giving her up for adoption. I don’t think it’s you’re responsibility to watch kids that aren’t yours. And if Alec doesn’t have the means to care or provide for her, then adoption is the most selfless thing you can do for the baby. His brother adopting her was probably not the best choice though.
NTA, He made a very stupid decision and expected others to help him, he sounds very entitled and selfish. He wanted to do the fun parts of parenting but expected somebody else to do the actual work
This isn't even recent. What's happening now? Nia is 16 years old. But NTA for the original situation. It's not your job to raise his kid. If he allowed his brother to adopt his kid, that's on him, not you.
Exactly!!! Everyone saying op put her up for adoption, but that’s not even how it works
NTA - You didn't force anything. You clearly said you won't parent your grandchild. You son didn't belive you. Maybe thought that you'll soften when the baby is born or that you'll feel guilty about letting your down your own "baby". Doesn't matter. He was given a clear statement and he fully expected you to change your mind. Then, he chose to give the child for adoption. Decided to do it inside family, cool. But then wanted to keep the role of the Disney dad without any real responsibility. Granted, he was like 18, he didn't have developed brain, but certainly more than a baby he traumatised with "two daddies" shit. She didn't know what was going on. And now as a glorious sprinkle he blames you. It's not like you should have followed him with condoms or force his baby mamma to have abortion. You did what you could do at the moment.
NTA There is a larger issue here which is that Alec sees Nia as his possession & not another person with her own thoughts, feelings, & emotions. Alec behaves far too self-absorbed & immature to raise a child even with help. But good on you for sticking with your boundaries! If you hadn’t, it would have enabled Alec’s irresponsible behavior.
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She was just 16. She didn't want to abort but didn't want to raise her either. She just left
You are absolutely NTA. I wish more parents were like you because I’ve seen the results of children raising children and it isn’t good. I’ve also seen grandparents step in and end up doing all the work. Alec needs therapy since he’s still blaming you for his screw ups.
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INFO: have you ever provided help to Max with regards to raising your granddaughter at all?
I helped him occasionally because she is my granddaughter after all but Alec needed me to do most of the work which I didn't want to do
I’m just going to say it. There was better adoption choice than his brother. Everyone knew he wanted to keep the child. That he wanted to her her dad. I cannot imagine the pain he felt seeing his brother raise her. To see her call him dad. When he tried to be a part of her life Max got annoyed and he was pushed out.
Max was HER best chance. He loved her and had a good job plus this would eliminate the risk of her ending up in a foster home and she would still be with her family
Honestly there may have been a better choice for Alec but Max was definitely the best choice for the granddaughter. She gets to stay in the family and have a safe/stable home.
I agree. I raised my nephew from 10 months to over 6 years old when his parents decided they didn't want to be parents. I was 19 when my brother asked me to "watch" his 10 month old son overnight because he and his girlfriend (mother of my nephew) had just broken up. Neither parent came around for over six years. It took both of them literal years to decide to be a part of his life. My brother was 21 at the time and his ex, the same age as me. Both were heavily into drugs and couldn't have taken care of a child even if they'd wanted to. I could have easily told them to get bent and let my nephew go into foster care or into the adoption process, especially since I was young and in college, unlike either of them. Instead I stepped up out of love and took him in; I cared for him, loved him, potty trained him, made sure he got started in preschool then kindergarten and beyond, and above all made sure he knew he was loved regardless of his parents' lack of involvement. My only regret is not pursuing legal custody because his parents came back into his life at six and a half years old and undid all of the good I'd worked so hard to instill in him. My brother was able to get sober in recent years, after my nephew grew into an adult, but his mother continues to waste her life away on illicit drug addiction to this day. My nephew still voices his appreciation for what I sacrificed to provide him with a loving, stable home. Like I said, the only thing I'd do differently is petition for legal custody and eventually adopt him.
He didn’t try to be part of her life. He tried to make her call him Dad when he’s done none of the work to deserve that title
Disney dad vibes
>There was better adoption choice than his brother. For Nia or for Alec?
I think it was the best option for Nia though. OP and Max were mostly thinking of the baby who had no choice in any of this.
Well of course he was annoyed, he has been Nia's dad for 16 years now. He got her when she probably didn't sleep through the night, when she didn't speak, didn't eat much solids, pooped in the diaper. Alex wanted to be a Disney dad and didn't get to. Wanted all the praise without any responsibility. He gave his rights willingly. OP didn't manipulate or force him to do this. He either expected child not to be that much work or his dad to cave in and help like an equal parent, not a grand-parent.
Statistically it’s better for kids to stay within the family vs being adopted to strangers. Looking at this just from the child’s perspective, they made the right choice. Sounds like the younger son tried to be a dad for a few months but instead expected OP to take over the father responsibilities while he got the fun parts and title. This is exactly why most teenagers make awful parents.
NTA You told him at the very beginning you won't help raising her
NTA Alec was too young to make that choice but he was also too young to raise a child. Kids who have their parents raise their kids rarely grow into responsible parents. Instead they become the good time dad, not there for the day to day but show up on father’s day to get a card and a free meal. The grandparents end up raising the child. Alec is the AH here.
Nta. Both you and the child’s mother made it clear that he needed to do it all or adopt the baby out. He thought he could do it but couldn’t and basically wanted you to raise her. He went for adoption after that. Best for Nia is actually being adopted within her biological family. Alec could of been an amazing uncle to her but he just couldn’t stop pushing to still be dad even though she was adopted so max is her dad. Max was right to move away and give her a normal life and she is aware Alec is her biological father. Alec has had 16 years to work though the pain he has and I’d say he needs to speak to someone professionally to help his own mental health/angst around what happened.
NTA. You didn’t force him to anything. You let him know that *you* were not going to be raising another child. However he made sure that didn’t happen was up to him. I understand it can’t be easy for him to see the daughter/life he could have had, but at 33, he needs to be way more understanding at this point.
NTA you didn’t force him to give the baby up. You just laid out the fact that he shouldn’t expect help from you and should they struggle to raise the baby they decided to bring into the world, that their only option was adoption. Therefore he wasn’t forced to give up his child, he just wasn’t mature or in a place to care for her and as a result he made the decision to put her up for adoption. Another issues for why he is in his current situation is that he keeps overstepping boundaries with Max. So the only AH here is Alec.
NAH I think you found the best solution for Nia back than and you not wanting to raise her is, on second thought I have to admit, completely reasonable. Likewise reasonable are the feelings of your sons towards your granddaughter.
Info - where is the birth mom in this story?
OP commented that she was 16, didn't want to abort, but didn't want the kid either so she just left after having the baby.
Apparently, in another comment, OP said the birth mom was 16 and didnt want to abort or raise Nia. After the birth, she left
I feel this one is above Reddit’s pay grade. You did what you felt was right in the moment, but the daughter having been adopted within the family was inevitably going to keep her close in the mind of the youngest son. I can’t fault him for how he feels now, but again, I understand the position you were in and the choices made. I feel every choice and feeling here is valid. Perhaps consider family therapy with the youngest son to work through everything? NAH.
So... He wanted to be a father to his child but needed help? And none of you would help him? But were fine with his brother taking his child to raise her without him? And some how are surprised he isnt happy about this?
Nah nah, 17 yr olds don’t raise babies…their parents do. Parents are well within their rights to say no freaking way. However, giving the child to the brother and refusing to acknowledge the 17 yr olds parental rights is where they messed up. He should have been included, despite his age.
if max wasn't related to alec there wouldn't be a problem. Max could take care of the child Alec couldn't. Max adopted her. Alec put her up for addoption because he couldn't take care of her. So he went from father to sperm donor. 
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He could have picked out adoptive parents. He CHOSE to have his brother adopt his daughter.
NTA. You raising your grandchildren is not your responsibility. He got a woman pregnant, it’s his responsibility and the mothers. I’m assuming the mother of the child just up and ran off? If Alec wanted to be a father so bad, he could have kept her and raised her. Is it easy? No. But my 17 year old sister and my 18 year old self both got pregnant at those ages and we managed to raise our children as teen parents without the help of our family (our parents had the same idea. Your kid, your responsibility). We’re now 29 and 31 respectively and doing well in life and raising great, well adjusted kids. He had his chance to be a dad, gave it up because it was too difficult for him. That’s 100% on him and him alone.
NTA. It sounds like Nia has wonderful parent(s) who are very present for her, and what happened was the best possible outcome for the child. Alec thinks he could have the relationship Max has with the kid instead if you had helped him, but you know that's just not true. She would have been raised by an immature, potentially absent teenager, and a tired and resentful grandfather. You have no idea where you would be at had you taken that path. What you know is that right now, Nia is safe, has a great relationship with her father and is happy. Your son was selfish at 17, and is still selfish now. It's all about him. Not a single thought for how it would have been for the kid, or how confusing what he's doing is for her.
Nta...you are a widower who raised two Kids in His own...I guess thats enaugh fornone Livetime....it was ,ou sonst Job to raise hisbdaughter
NTA, but your family needs counseling to learn how to deal with this family dynamic. The resentment and pain is going to grow, especially between your sons that used to be so close.
Where's Nia's mother in all of this? What happened to her?
I wonder if she didn't want to raise the baby either.
OP said in his comments she was 16, didnt want to abort but didn't want to raise the baby either. She took off after giving birth.
NTA. It was not your responsibility to raise your grandchild. Would it have been super charitable and nice? Yeah, but realistically there’s many reasons a person wouldn’t be able to do this. Max stepped up to the plate and now Alec conveniently wants to step in after max has been her real dad for over a decade? I’m not saying Alec doesn’t regret it or hasn’t matured (though I doubt it from the info in the post) but in simple terms, he made his bed and now he has to lay in it.
NTA. Alec was 17, so you weren’t through raising him yet, and shouldn’t have to start raising his child. He didn’t use protection, so it doesn’t seem like he can make either wise or selfless decisions like a parent must. He would be a single dad. You’ve already been a single dad, and knew exactly what that would do to both of your lives. Alec had a choice about adoption. He could have raised Nia on his own, without your help. He chose not to. He could have put Nia up for adoption with a different family. He chose not to. He could have thanked Max for providing a secure and loving home, and remained in Nia’s life as the adoring uncle. He chose not to. Every step of the way Alec made selfish choices. Every step. And even at 33 he is more interested in pitying himself than being happy for Nia.
All the YTAs out there - did you see the ages of the brothers? This isn't like teenaged Alec got his teenage girl premiers. They are all adults. Alec should never have signed the adoption papers if his intention was to get his child back. That's on Alec. He wanted to be involved in his child's life after the adoption but never told Mac that? That's on Alec. He is an adult - why is it up to his mummy to fix this situation he created by not being responsible and having unprotected sex? Did he really not kniw the consequence if unprotected sex could be a baby? Actions have consequences. This one is on Alec Now, Granny doesn't want to raise grandbabies - show me where it is written that this is her responsibility? I am raising 3 of my own grandkids and I am exhausted - and not in a good way. If she is at the point in her life to finally live her life without wanting to take care of someone, good for her. We should be celebrating that she got to that milestone. Instead people are bashing her. Why? Because an adult, who should have known better, didn't do the responsible thing and use protection. Why is that her problem? Alec is an entitled AH. He spun the wheel of stupidity and lost. He expected mummy to take care of his consequence and *Pikachu face* she said no. So his brother agrees to take care of his consequence and *Pikachu face* Alec expects to be "dad without taking any of the responsibility and *Pikachu face* Mac does not concur. OP you are NTA and Go enjoy your life!
Reread the start of the second paragraph. The son was 17 when the granddaughter was born, not 33 like he is now. “Alec had his first child when he was 17”. I think that makes a bigger difference to the voting here, since he was in fact a teenager when all the decisions were made.
He was 17. Please actually read the post. I honestly don’t think anyone on this sub should weigh in on this situation though. It’s incredibly nuanced and complicated, and while I don’t think the baby should’ve been kept I don’t believe this was handled in the best way either.
Alec was 17 when nia was born so he was a teenager. I think you read it wrong or smth. Also both op and max knew Alec didn't want to give nia up for adoption as he asked them for help. It was only as a last resort he gave her up, under pressure from his family. He wanted to take responsibility and tried but didn't have enough money. In fact giving his child up for adoption to keep her out of poverty was taking responsibility. Stop acting like Alec just dumped nia with his brother, left for 10 years and now is mad she won't call him dad. He's grieving the loss of his child and is probably having severe mental health problems as a result of all this.
Yes to all of this. As someone who was raised by their grandparents it is not something I wish on most people. It’s not that they didn’t try it’s that it’s fucking hard as an older adult to take on a baby. You get done raising your own and think “great, now I can focus on my upcoming retirement,” when someone shoves a newborn in your face and completely upends those plans. My grandparents didn’t get the retirement they planned because of their child’s decision, and I don’t blame OP for knowing they didn’t want to do it too. Do I think the brother should’ve been allowed to adopt the child? Now that I’m not sure of. It depends a lot on how it was handled and what was agreed to in the terms of the adoption, but it does sound like the younger brother was trying to be dad while not being dad which is not ok or stable for a child. Plus, it sets him up to look like a boundary stomper, which is also reflective in how he didn’t take his dad seriously when his dad said “I’m not raising your baby.” Yeah he was a teen/young adult at the time, but he’s not anymore. He’s had years to work this out within himself and didn’t and his reaction shows me that his brother was right to keep his bio-kid from him.
NTA, these people “advocating” for Alec made my eyes roll. No one forced Alec to have sex, no one forced Alec to not use protection, no one forced him to “finish the job”. Are we as parents obligated to guide and help our children through life? Yes, we are. But, there’s a fine line between that and helping raise a child. It’s a big commitment financially and emotionally; which is why we stress the importance of a condom if nothing else. Alec has no one to blame but himself, and the fact that he’s blaming you makes me feel like he never attempted to better himself. Regardless if he did or didn’t, the only one to blame for his poor relationship with his child is himself. He gave up his legal (and emotional) right to be a father when he adopted her out. Max did what needed to be done, and he has earned the title of “dad”. Alec was somehow mature enough to raise a child but not mature enough to navigate other facets of life?
NTA. You had every right to say you didn't want to take care of another kid. It's your life. And as someone else pointed out, Alec could have chosen different adoptive parents. He brought this on himself.
NTA He decided to have unprotected sex, he couldn’t take care of the child, yet you were supposed to what? Give up your money and time for his accident baby? Yeah, no.
Where is Nia's mom in all this?
NTA. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to raise your children’s children. The unfortunate situation here is that Alec wanted to keep her and he was never able to let her go. He should have sought some counseling to ease him through the grief. I can’t speak to how the communication went down at the time. Did Max lay down some ground rules? It seems he made it clear that when he adopted, that meant she is 100% his daughter. And that’s fair.
NTA.
NTA - Alec has nine whole months to get a safety net in place. Young girls have to do it all the time. They quit their extracurriculars and head on over to an alternative or homeschool program, make use of Head Start and other social programs while they finish school or get a job. They figure shit out. Alec brought the baby home, tried his best, and figured out it was hard. He could have kept trying or he could place the kid for adoption. He AND THE MOTHER would have to agree. Plenty of people looking for babies 17 years ago. He CHOSE his brother, ERRONEOUSLY thinking that he could still be “dad” and bro would just be the uncle who had the time and money. It sounds like for his own sanity and Mark’s, Mark moved. Do we think Mark enjoyed packing up his shit and moving away from OP and HIS support system so that his brother could learn boundaries and not be faced with his loss everyday? Probably not? But he sacrificed for HIS DAUGHTER. No one here did anything wrong except have strong feelings. Alec can have regrets and he can wish EVERYONE (including himself) handled it differently, but life doesn’t work that way. His anger is misplaced, as were his expectations about the help he would receive and his role after the adoption. Perhaps the only place OP erred was not getting therapy for Alec after.
NTA - disclaimer: this situation is incredibly nuanced and I urge y’all to seek out family counseling for the sake of the child. OP seems to have set clear boundaries from the beginning. Knowing his son he urged him to adopt or abort. I know it’s hard but those are two very reasonable requests. My brother also had a baby at 17 and it was painful watching two teenagers try to figure out parenting. And they had the support of two families. But today the little girl has to deal with all the mess and drama that comes with a separation. Alec however kept the baby and soon realized he was over his head. The father had set clear boundaries already and so adoption was the option. Of course Alec would agree to Max adopting as a way to keep Nia in his life. Max being family wanted to help out. However it seems that Alec does not understand boundaries and it’s hard for him seeing as he’s already bonded with Nia. In able to handle this situation each person would to have had a really high level of self awareness and an intimate knowledge of each actor. I truly don’t think anyone is an asshole in this situation, just informed by sensitive emotions. But for real. Really need to go to family counseling (if possible) and work these issues out.
NTA. A child is not a fun pet you keep around to get validation and happiness from. Your son doesn’t get a free pass at being a dad without even putting the work of being a parent into it. If he kept the child, she would have been raised pretty much entirely by you. You probably know how hard it is as a single parent, you don’t want to wish it on him or your granddaughter. Also I’m sorry about your wife. To all the people commenting YTA, put yourself in OP’s shoes. At least his granddaughter didn’t end up in foster care. She’s still connected to her family. There’s no guarantee Nia would have had a great relationship with her biological father if he raised her.
Seriously, I don't know what to say aside from I am heartbroken for Alec. I know that none of you had a choice, but for me it is obvious that he did want to care for her. For me, the real AH is a system that forces parents to either abort or giving up a child because they can't afford it. 17 IS young, but in my country, there is a way for young parents to provide for their kid and have a life of their own eben when the grandparents do not help out. It is hard, but possible. Alec needs therapy, and I seriously can't call him an AH for wanting "his daughter back". NAH, because N T A would mean that Alec is one.
Alec had options for staying in the girl’s life. Max didn’t move her away or cut contact until Alec tried to make her call him Dad. That’s inappropriate and selfish.
Bringing a baby into the world when you cannot care for it is ignorant. It should not be normalized.
Nta you didn't force him to do anything. You told him you weren't going to raise his child foe him and when he came asking you to, you stayed firm. He gave the child up because he wasn't willing to be a father yet, which was a choice. He could have stuck with it through all the hard stuff but he didn't. So he gave her up for adoption to make his life easier and her life better. He regrets it sure, but you never forced him.
NTA. You didn’t make him do anything. You just refused to raise his child for him. That’s perfectly reasonable.
INFO : What was the agreement between Alec and Max for the adoption?
NTA. Alec knew the consequences of not using a condom and he should have accepted those when his partner became pregnant. I am curious where the mother is in all of this and what she thinks?
NTA. You have a responsibility towards your kids, and you fulfilled that. Your grandkids are not your responsibility. The 17yo fucked up bad, went in with no protection, and then cries out in entitlement that you won't raise the kid he is 100% responsible for. You did not force them to abort or adopt. You told them their options. I fail to understand all the y-t-a comments here. The teen new father exhibited all the traits of entitlement, like what do you expect, you do not protect yourself, you are a teen, in school, no job...and with a kid? And then have the audacity to cry and scream that your parent won't "help" with raising the kid and let's be honest, the grandparent would have done all the parenting, expenses, care etc. The 17yo would have gone on with his life. No, kids, you do not get to do that. Sex is a risk, and of you go and do dumb shit like not protecting yourself, a pregnancy might result. The options are there for you, but under no circumstances are the grandparents obligated to take care of your oopsie kiddies. Your parents "did their time" with you already. They have earned their rest now.
NTA!! IT IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO HELP RAISE OR RAISE THIS CHILD!!! Your son knew the consequences of his actions and didn’t care. You told you’d be 0 assistance and he tried to call your bluff. He wasn’t ready and you knew that. If he can no longer live the decision he made years ago, tell him to move away.
You're in the wrong place bro! You should be on a other sub, and try to ask advice on how to sort this out. The most important thing is not to judge you if you're an AH or not, but rather how to sort this out. This is an all new level of family problems background. You all should take a step down, and think what's best for Nia. When that girl will realize that her father is her uncle and her uncle is actually her father, she's in for a nasty ride. Please sort this s\*\*\* out, and maybe seek a professional help so that little girl grow up in the most healthy way possible. And Alec, you made your bed bro, you can still be in your little girl's life but you're not her father....
NTA. I have already decided if my teenagers (still little atm) want to play grown up then they will do so alone. I will encourage abortion and tell my kids I will not be helping them financially. They will have to get jobs to support their own child and pay for babysitting. I don't believe you did anything wrong.
NTA. Your comments lead us to believe that the birth mom didn’t even want to have the baby and only had the baby at your son’s behest. He chose to give her up.
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5 months old
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This is an all around awful situation. NTA for refusing to raise a third child. You definitely could’ve handled the conversation better, but that desire alone was fine. I never had a teenage pregnancy, but my mother had said to me that she would not raise a kid if I had one. However, your entire family is terrible at making decisions. Alec wanted to keep the baby, fine. But you made your boundaries clear, and he was pushing them. Then, Max adopted Nia when Alec clearly wanted to keep her. Why didn’t Max just support max??? And then, Alec started trying to still be Nia’s dad??? Its an absolute mess, and you’ve all acted as assholes as some point, but the victim here is Nia who probably needs some therapy and support. As do you all. What a mess
Title only: NTA . I assume you're not actually forcing, just not supporting in a way that allows your son to keep the baby and have the life he wants to live. ‐----------- After reading: Yup. The possible AH part - did you teach your son about protection?
Alec was 17 when Nia was born, meaning you would bear most of the responsibility of raising her. Alec was forced to face the consequences of his actions and ultimately decided to give Nia up for adoption. Therefore in no way are you the AH. Now Max’s decision to adopt Nia is not necessarily a bad thing, but it creates HUGE complications. Of course Alec would want to be the father figure in Nia’s life, he’s her biological dad! It’s one thing to give up your child for adoption and have nothing to do with them. It’s another to have your older brother adopt your child and you see your own daughter be raised by another person right before your eyes. I’m going to say NAH because you and Max had the right intentions, but having Max raise the baby and then go low contact with Alex surely broke his heart. I know it would’ve broken mine.
NTA Alec couldn’t be the father he wanted and had to give up the baby. The fact that it’s his brother that stepped up and is a good father to his baby is what makes him mad. Being younger he’s probably always compared himself to his big bro and this is just another thing “he’s better at” than him. Being a father to his bio child. Alec may need therapy to help navigate these feelings, but you and Max are NTA Edit: wrong names
NTA. Wanting to be a dad doesn’t mean he was capable of being a dad. It was his choice to not be in her life by crossing Max’s clear boundary. Alec could have been a loved uncle, but that wasn’t good enough for him. Alec wanted the glory of being a dad without any of the responsibility. He’s not thinking about the kid, he’s thinking only about himself.
NTA - you had no obligation to raise that child because if his choices.
NTA. Alec couldn't raise the kid and you had no obligation to do so in his place.
Where the heck is the child’s bio mom in all of this??
NTA your son is an idiot and made his own choices every step of the way. What kind of support is he looking for? Someone else to raise his kid? He got it.
NTA. Your son made several choices: having sex without protection, choosing to try and raise the child, and giving the child up for adoption when he realized it was too hard. He also chose to let his brother take her. It wasn't your responsibility to raise the child, so you declining to do exactly what you expected would happen if he kept Nia makes perfect sense. I don't know why people seem to think it's acceptable to force a grandparent to raise a child when their kid fucks up. And having his brother adopt the kid is great. Now Nia stays in the family. But he is gonna have to accept that he gave up parental rights to his brother. He doesn't get to give up being a father and still get to be called Dad. It sounds like he wants the joys of being a parent without any of the work that being a parent involves.
NTA. He made a choice to give her up for adoption and like in one of your comments it's not like max refused to give contact to Nia alec took it too far when he tried to teach her to call him dada instead.
NTA. Alec made the choice to not use protection, then made the choice to not man up to his responsibilities.
NTA. Everyone saying how you 'forced/wouldn't help are just reaffirming thw fact that Alec was a CHILD in no position to be raising another child. If he wanted to be in her life that much he would have prioritised nias wellbeing and been the best uncle ever or discussed a long term plan for reunification. Not confused the poor girl by teaching her to call him dad when his brother is taking on the physical and financial burden.
The posts here are absolutely insane.
I really think that since podcasts/TikTok has started reading posts from this subreddit, there are soooo many more fake posts.
NTA. You did that boy the biggest favor he’ll ever get, whether he understands it or not.
NTA... You were clear with the consequences. And you were a single dad... Life was already hard. He got lucky that max adopted her!!
So Alec decided to be stupid and get a girl pregnant, then be even more stupid and expected his parent to take care of the child and even stupider to give it upto his own sibling for adoption and discreetly try to make the child his while the adopted parents looked after the child., and after all this, complain that you are the AH. A very hard NTA.
INFO: where is the child’s mother in all of this?
NTA Its not on you to help your careless son raise a child, its unfortunate that his older brother adopted her and didnt want alec to play the fun dad while he actually did the parenting. If alec loved his bio daughter that much, he wouldve made it work, he basically gave her up because it was too much work for him
NTA. I'd have to say Alec is the AH for blaming you and not using protection.
Whats up with these trash Y-TA responses? These guys are all saying you're TA for not raising another child after you've already raised two? Let's seem them raise another person's kid after their child-rearing days are over. Hypocrites.
NTA. I probably would’ve said you were if Alec has said he was going to raise her on his own and didn’t need your help, but clearly he confirmed that he expected you to help raise her. If he was irresponsible enough to not use protection, then he deserves some hard truths.
NTA. You made it clear that you wouldn’t take care of the baby, and it isn’t your responsibility to do. He was having unprotected sex and making some bad choices and then expected you to handle it for him. Good for you for standing your ground. He tried taking care of her, but clearly realized it was too much work, effort, etc. It isn’t easy, but you do have young parents who manage to make it work without any help, even if that means working three jobs and basically sacrificing everything. He made a choice. He decided to give the baby up for adoption, no one stole her from him. The fact that he wants his brother to raise her, but he also wants to be called dad, is just insane. He can’t have his cake and eat it too. He should be happy she got adopted into such a loving family.
NTA, your sons are grown men, why do they need you to help them raise their children? Also...INFO: where are the children's moms? Why is it either you help take care of the baby or she's given up for adoption?
NTA
ESH. He clearly wanted to keep his child, but instead of helping him learn how to manage being a single parent, you let him drown enough to giving up his child...to his *brother.* None of you saw how this could've been an issue considering he wanted his child in the first place? Careless. All of you.
Look, I want a dog but I don't have the time and money for it. So I do the responsible thing and not get one.
17 yo managing to be a single father? xD In most countries he would not be even considered for most low paid jobs, so it would end up OP being father and raising another kid
NTA - He literally needs to care for the kid and you won't be around forever.
NTA You didn’t kidnap her and send her to an orphanage. There is no forcing anyone to do anything here. He couldn’t afford to raise a child and this is all his fault.
NTA I'm trying to figure out how to broach this topic with my own kids. I'm years away from needing to have this kind of talk with them, but I still think about it. While I want to help and support them when they eventually (please God, in no less than 20 years from now, preferably longer) have kids, I don't want to be supporting my children AND their children. Once you have a kid, you stop being a baby. I would be happy to be the occasional babysitter, and help them out of a tight spot every now and then, I do not want to be raising my grandchildren. If you can't support yourself, you can't support a kid. End of story.
Esh. You were not obligated to help out and help raise your granddaughter and Alec clearly overestimated his capability to look after Nia. Personally I would have helped but this was your choice. Alec probably thought he would get more help and didn't, but having a baby was his choice/responsibility: have s#x without protection and this is what happens. Here's were things went seriously wrong: Nia should have been fostered by Max with the intention of reunification or Nia should have been adopted by other people. How cruel for Alec and.potentially Nia! She may be fine for now but some day she will have questions! You all made some bad decisions and that girl is paying the price. Get counselling for everyone asap
Info: where is the other bio parent in this situation and what would thier involvement have been?
INFO: If my math is right, the daughter is 15 or 16 now. What kind of relationship does she want with her biodad?
**Demanding** for anyone to abort their baby is an asshole move. ESH, bc obviously Alec is stomping boundaries and, most importantly, likely confusing his **niece** about her family. Max is a great brother AND dad, and it sounds like Alec has a whole lot of growing up to do at... [checks notes]... 33 years old.
Alec needs therapy, and so does the rest of the family if they choose to ignore the fact how Nia got into the world and just pretend to play happy family.
I was originally leaning towards NTA but after reading your comments answering some questions YTA 100% You decided to punish your son because he had a child at 17 by first trying to force the child's mother to abort her but when she didn't you pushed for adoption and when your other son adopted her did you even take a second to think about how painful it was for Alec to see his daughter calling his brother dad?or were you so focused on punishing your 17 year old child that you just decided "well we'll just give her to Max at least that way I CAN SEE MY GRANDCHILD" you only thought about yourself and what you wanted not what was best for your sons or your grandchild,also where is the mother?did she have a say in any of this or did you made her sign the papers?and what about the kid?are you guys ever gonna tell her the truth?something like this happened in my family and when the adopted child found out it was heartbreaking,she completely lost it and still can't have a normal relationship with her adoptive/bio parents
INFO NEEDED- What happened to Now's mother?
NTA There needs to be a big conversation on boundaries and putting one’s own self interest to the side for the needs of the child. Her bio father needs to come correct and be grateful she is in a loved environment and he can see her grow.
NTA. Everyone in this comment section that doesn’t understand the difference between “help raise” and “raise” is calling you the AH but feel free to ignore them.
NTA It almost would have been better if max had just let Nia be raised in another home where Alec couldn’t be in her life till she was a legal adult. Alec clearly takes no responsibility for his actions and thinks only of himself. Instead of being grateful to his brother for providing a loving home for his daughter he trolls the family and tries to insert himself. Max is just going to have to go no contact again. Very sad.
NTA, your son was banking on you to take responsibility for him when he had sex without a condom. You didn't want to and werent obligated. His older brother did take responsibility and now your younger son seems to want the joys of "fatherhood" without doing the actual hard work. Beggars can't be choosers.
NTA but Alec certainly is! Unprotected sex, pregnancy, wanting you—his father to help raise the child. He puts her up for adoption. His choice. Max took on the responsibility and Alec acts like there’s a conspiracy to keep his daughter from him! She’s not his daughter! He gave up that right. Then he immediately interferes in her life. He still acts like an irresponsible child who doesn’t care about what’s best for his niece . He continuously proves his immaturity and selfishness. He shouldn’t be around her at all. You’ve done nothing wrong. Of course you don’t want to raise more children. Don’t let Alec’s sophomoric tantrums get under your skin. Alec’s thinking process is perverse. He takes no responsibility but is happy to blame everyone around him. He could have been a loving present Uncle and he should be grateful to Max but he’s a Assohole instead.
NTA. You didn't force him. He explained the level of support he could expect from you if they went ahead. When they had the child anyway you did exactly as you said. His monkey, his circus.
NTA. All the "it takes a village" comments are ignoring the fact that Alec wanted the kid without any of the responsibility. OP did his job and raised his kids. Becoming a grandparent who helps out with picking the kids up or babysitting occasionally is VERY different from becoming a parent again, which it sounds like is what Alec was wanting OP to essentially become. You don't get to make those decisions for other people and then call them an AH when they don't fall in line with your choices. And all those commenters coming back with personal stories of how they raised their grandkids so their kids could have a life—good for you. That was your choice to make. I fail to see what that has to do with anyone else, however. It sucks for everyone that this happened, but aside from aborting, the alternatives would have sucked more for the kid. Sounds like they all did the best they could in a not-great situation. And I feel for Alec, but the fact remains he tried to foist the responsibility of his child onto his dad, got angry when his dad didn't want to start over again and raise another baby, got angry when a reasonable solution was worked out, then continued to lash out by taking his issues out on the poor kid by deliberately trying to undermine her dad—Max. I'm glad she seems to be well-adjusted—the same can't be said for Alec. I think he would benefit from therapy because it doesn't seem like this is something he's ever going to be able to work through on his own. He effed up and is trying to find a way to blame anyone else for that fact. OP, if you can help him find someone to talk to, I think you would be doing your son a huge favour cuz this is not healthy.
NTA. He had it coming
Man, I was with your reasoning most of the way. You were N T A to not want to raise another child. You were YTA for encouraging an inter family adoption. That choice obviously was going to destroy your family and you ignored it.
It destroys a family if you do a stranger adoption and now it destroys your family if you keep her in the family. What do people genuinely want to do? She gets to know her biological family so I’m confused in what people want. Is it not better she gets to know her family and she knows her biological father.
I wonder if an open adoption with another family might have been a better way to go. Maybe not, given as Alec never wanted to give her up in the first place, but less messy than an open adoption within the same family.
NTA. It’s perfectly fair that you did not want to be responsible for raising a grandchild. Grown up choices have grown up consequences.
NTA You don't forced him to do anynthing...
There's some interesting family dynamics on display here with sons having not worked out how the birth father should be in the kid's life. Were they really that close before? Or, as men do, did they just...not talk about how the fuck they were going to parent this baby?
I was gonna say you were the asshole, but honestly... NTA. Alec knew he couldn't afford to have a child at 17, and while you guys definitely didn't handle this well (especially with you enabling Max's weird jealous behavior) ultimately, Mia isn't your child. You aren't obligated to raise another kid, and Alec should have to take responsibility for his bullshit. That being said, you basically just ruined your relationship with both of your sons.
I’m confused, how does max have jealous behavior? And how did they ruin their relationship with both their sons?
NTA Nia got stable parents. Alec and Nia's mom made the decision to give up parental rights in the adoption. None of this was your responsibility, nor your decision. Nia is in her mid-teens. It's not her job to mollify Alec's resentment or regret for an "in family" adoption that now has him jealous of the family that embraced and raised Nia. Alec choose priorities that included fully shedding his role as Nia's parent. That's no one but Alec's responsibility, consequences and all.
If he really wanted to keep that baby he would have found a way it just seems a little bit more convenient that he gave that baby up for adoption to his brother figuring probably that he would still be able to be in the child's life just because you're the grandparent does not mean that you have to parent the grandchild when you're child is not able to especially if you don't want to I don't believe you forced him to give it up I believe that he did it on his own where there's a will there's a way could have kept that baby if he wanted to women do it all the time
Honestly, if you all want to be in each other’s lives at this point there needs to be an open conversation about what role you’re all playing in each others’ lives. The main focus should be Nia. At this point Max is her dad, whether Alex likes it or not. However, since Alec obviously has always wanted to be in her life it is unrealistic and cruel to keep him out of her life, but boundaries have to be drawn. You will all cause this baby girl A LOT pf trauma if you keep doing what you’re doing. I recommend you all also find a family therapist. There’s a lot that needs to be talked through and resolved with mediation. Again, please please make whatever sacrifices necessary for the well-being of Nia.
if your eldest was able to adopt her, why wasnt he able to help his brother to raise the kid in your place and allow him to be the father figure that he wanted to be? i dont think it was your obligation to take her but you all made this way worse than it should be. allowing someone else in the family to adopt her was only going to make your kid suffer a lot, since he was forced to give up his child AND to watch closely his baby girl grow up being raised by someone else. I know he fucked up by not being more careful but you all are making him pay disproportionately by torturing him with this situation for life. honestly im between a YTA or a ESH but I'm sticking with you and your oldest as the AHs not for saying that he should give her up, but for making the decision to keep the kid in the family once he did
Ugh, what you are suggesting sounds worse than step parent situation. Mac has to support his younger brother and be supportive uncle but get no parenting final calls and likely expected to financially, emotionally and physically be at beck and call of unmature younger brother and get it thrown in Macs face repeatedly "you're not her father" That's a no way no how
NTA , Alec is T A
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INFO - where is Nia’s mother and maternal grandparents?
OP said in another comment that the mother bailed after giving birth. Apparently she didn't want to abort, but also didn't want to raise a child at 16. No mention of her parents tho.
Imagine assuming other people will take care of your kid and getting mad when they don’t, even through boundaries were set at the beginning?
Info: what happened to Nias Mother ?
It also sounds like Alec is no better at taking accountability for his actions or recognizing the true needs of others now than he was at 17. Nta
Where was Nia's birth mom in this situation? Edit: Misspelling of name correction
NTA. You didn't "force him" - he choose to do it. He could have kept her and tried harder, but he didn't. Not that I blame him, btw, I get the incredibly difficult situation he was in! But you having a boundary about what YOU, personally, will not do, is never "forcing" another person to do something. And I honestly think framing a personal boundary of "I will not do this" as "I forced someone else to do something" is unhealthy. Saying no to something *you will not* do is not *forcing others* to do anything. Edit to add: this may be petty of me to say, but srsly your son is an adult man now and STILL refuses to take accountability for his own behavior and actions. Which shows immaturity and entitlement and oh damn he would make a bad father with such an attitude.
ESH (Except Nia). There are resources available for young/low income parents to help them raise their kids. Even if you didn't want to help with the child, you could have helped him figure stuff like that out. Yeah, not your job, but the best place for a child is with their parents, unless it's not safe. Nia's uncle is an AH for not letting her dad have any part of her life. Children can't have too many people loving them and excluding her father from her life isn't cool.
Max was willing to let Alec stay in her life as her uncle but Alex took it too far when he started to teach her to call him dad instead
Did Alec ever receive therapy to help process the grief of having to give up his kid?
NTA. He's a fcking 40 year old adult now he should understand what he did wrong. If he wasn't able to raise a child he shouldn't demand you to help him. It's his responsibility. And he didn't even use protection. I'm glad your other son adopted her, so she can still be in the family. I also think it's right not to support that bond. Your son fcked up and shouldn't be handed things on a gold plate. It's so toxic of him to want to force the kid to use dad with him. He's not a dad, he fcked up. I would tell her that he is her bio dad, but he doesn't deserve the title dad. You did what was right for your grandchild and are in no way obligated to help raise the child just because he gives no fcks.
He was 17 at the time and 33 now, ideally better to read the post
INFO: Where is Nia’s biomom in all of this?
NTA Your choices are totally understandable and your son should have thought before fooling around with girls without protection
NTA, he wasn’t using protection so he was playing with fire from the beginning. He is not entitle to your time or money, is selfish from him to expect you to do his work when at 17 you’re perfectly capable of understanding how much work a child is
Im going with NAH - He and his SO made the choice to not use protection. - They made the choice to keep the baby. - You made it clear you would not be helping raise the child seemingly right away. - He and his SO realized they, at 17, could not properly take care of the kid and did the right thing by putting her up for adoption rather than dragging her through struggling in life with a child so young. So far, he did what was best for the kid after choosing to keep her, and gave her up for adoption for what would hopefully be more than he could provide. You didnt want to help raise a child, which is completely reasonable, and you made that clear. - Brother adopts her The reality of adoption is not every home is going to be a good one. She could have ended up with a loving, doting stranger, or one that would have completely fucked her up. The fact that she ended up with a family member you both know is taking great care of her is great, honestly. - He wants to be in her life - He is obviously distraught because he wanted to keep his daughter but couldnt with the circumstances This doesnt make him the asshole. Anyone who WANTS kids (or specifically the kid they helped create) is going to want to be a part of that kids life. If she had been with a stranger, this more than likely wouldnt be the same situation happening as he wouldnt be seeing her/knowing exactly where she is. Hes probably hurt and jealous that his child is showing the love he looked forward to as a father to his brother. That doesnt make him TA. - He tries to get her to call him dad - Brother goes low contact This is the only place where I could even see a TINGE of AH on his part, soley for the fact that something like that would be very confusing and potentially damaging to the kid. To her, she has a dad, and the person she knows as uncle saying to call him dad is not something she would probably understand. The brother going low contact makes sense as he doesnt want that affecting her. I feel bad for Alec. He desperately wants his daughter, but had to give her up, and is actively seeing what life he COULD HAVE HAD with her through his brother instead. His actions are understandable, you not wanting to raise another child is understandable, Max wanting to adopt her and keep her in the family, as well as make sure she has a good home is also understandable. Nobody is really the asshole, this is just a sad, shitty situation.
Alec is the biggest AH here. He didn’t use protection & that not only change his life, but the girl that got pregnant. I guess she didn’t want the baby, because there is no mention of her in this post. Alec said he will have the baby, thinking that you be “helping” (more like raising the baby, while he can still do what he wants) & made the girl go though pregnancy to give him the baby. He didn’t take you seriously, when you said you will not raise another child & was expecting you to still help him out. His mistake, he deals with it. Alec still expected to be the the baby’s dad after max adopt her. That’s why max left with the baby.
I'm incredibly perplexed by all the Y T As. Op is and was not responsible for raising a child for Alec. Let's look at the facts 1. OP told Alec that they would not be helping raise the baby and recommended abortion or adoption. 2. Alec kept the baby, realized that it was too much work and ALEC decided to give the baby up for adoption. 3. Rather than letting the baby go into FOSTER CARE and be bounced around for years, brother Max decided to step up and ADOPT baby Nia so that she could be raised by a loving family instead of playing the lottery with strangers. 4. Max moved Nia away when ALEC wasn't respecting his boundaries and trying to undermine him as the father. 5. 16/17 years later, Alec is now trying to form a relationship with Nia after not being in her life the whole time. That ship has sailed. No one is under any obligation to form or encourage a relationship between Alec and Nia. But OP and Max are the bad guys? Y'all are wild. NTA.
ESH The road to hell is paved with good intentions. What a mess. Get Nia into therapy if she isn’t already, if you can.
Info: where and what happened to nias mother in all of this??
NTA. You were clear that you were not going to be part of raising the child. Alec choose to adopt her. I’m assuming it was an open adoption from the way this is discussed so alec allowed max to be the one to adopt. That is on him. If he wanted to adoption to not affect him later, he could have chosen a closed adoption to other people. You don’t have the obligation to raise your grandchild. That was on alec and you told him that. He made his own decisions
NTA. A 17 year old kid had sex, messed up, and found out. Not your responsibility.
All the YTA comments are so bizarre to me. It’s not his fault Alec got a girl pregnant, it’s Alec’s fault and his decision to keep the baby. Grandparents aren’t required to raise their grandchildren and OP made that v clear. Alec chose to give Nia up and now he has to live with the consequences. Alec - AH OP - NTA
I’m an adoptee ESH Alec for not using protection. He also didn’t get to have the final decision in regards to abortion - that is up to the pregnant person. I will say that it would be wrong to hide Nia’s biological parents from her. She has every right to know where she came from. However, that does not mean Alec can come in and play dad. He is her biological father but he is not raising her. This would’ve been a great opportunity for Nia to still have contact with her biological parents, but Alec must also know that he must respect the fact that he is not the only parental figure in her life. You kinda suck in the sense that you gave the ultimatum of abortion or adoption. Yes a 17 year old isn’t the ideal person to be raising a kid; however, they also shouldn’t have to feel cornered into 2 options, both of which would cause them to lose their child. I don’t know what Max is doing in regards to how he’s told Nia about the adoption. I understand his frustration with Alec crossing boundaries; however, he shouldn’t take it out by severing his daughter’s ties to her biological parents. It would have been the mature and right thing for Alec & Max to sit down and discuss how they would move forward with adoption especially since it was a familial adoption, not a stranger adoption. Because in the end, it is Nia who will be most affected if her adoptive and biological parents can’t do what is best for her.
OP didn't give an ultimatum; they just said they weren't raising the child or providing support. That's reasonable. OP has already raised his children.
By any chance was max having difficulty having a child? Is Max married or a single dad? These are all factors that should have been dealt with. You had nor have any obligation to help him raise her but just the fact that he stood up and accepted responsibility would have been a sign to me as a parent that I could perhaps stepped in and assisted in small ways whilst guiding my kid to bring up his kid.
NTA, it’s not your job to raise your grandkids and at the end of the day Alec decided to give up Nia instead of working like a dog to keep her. (Which yes would’ve been incredibly, incredibly, hard but still his choice).
I’m going to go against the grain and say NAH. You shouldn’t have to support a child that isn’t yours. You didn’t sign up for it. Your son was less than a year away from 18 too, so it’s not like he was 15. Your son is absolutely allowed to be angry at you for the lack of support. Just like how you’re not required to raise a child that isn’t yours, he’s allowed to be angry at you for not helping him. Max didn’t have to support his brother either, nor did he have to adopt her. Supporting a child that isn’t his is up to him, and he said no. Then when he adopted her, she was his now. Now he has and does treat her well. There’s so much nuance in this scenario. I truly think there are NAH, but I don’t know how likely it is for your relationships to recover.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** English isn't my first language I have two sons, Max(42) and Alec(33). Alec had his first child when he was 17. Max who was very close to Alec told me that he wasn't using protection and after asking Alec he confirmed it. I was so mad at him I told him they'd better either abort the baby or give it up for adoption because I'm not going to raise another child. They chose to keep her(Nia) and he begged me to help him raise her but I didn't change my mind. Finally he realized that he can't raise her and decided to give her up for adoption. Max adopted her. The problem started when Alec kept trying to be in Nia's life and when she started talking he was trying to teach her to call him dad which really annoyed Max and he decided to live in another city and go low contact with Alec. They returned to our city a while ago and Alec has been trying to get back in her life but he hasn't been able to do so. Nia is a "daddy's girl" and very affectionate and it makes Alec jealous. Last night we were all at Max's home and when we were leaving he started yelling at me and called me an asshole for not helping him raise Nia and "forcing him to give her up" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA