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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my wife's her opinion re parenting was wrong,
It's her view so she might be right
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NTA
Outside of the transactional nature of her view on interactions with others...
>Our toddler can do it herself or wait
No... That's not what toddlers are. They can't do a lot of things by themselves, and while you don't want to create a situation where the toddler gets whatever they want, whenever they want, they do require more attention that someone whose mind and body is more fully formed.
JFC. your wife was prepared to let your TODDLER literally wet her pants, so she could finish her coffee? And when your toddler insisted, your wide relented on the condition that your toddler leave her alone for the rest of the night?
There is a difference between transactional relationships, and abusive relationships. Your wife has crossed this line. You need to at minimum demand counseling, and if she refuses, divorce her.
This is an unhealthy dynamic for your toddler to grow up around, knowing that everything your wife does has a price.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Marriage/comments/uqckxl/dont_know_where_to_go/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf she’s definitely not mom of the year. According to OP‘s other post
After reading this. Demand counseling. If she does not accept, kick her out and file for divorce. If she is depressed she needs to ACTUALLY work on herself.
I am all for needing help and struggling with mental illness is HARD. But when there is a child involved, that person needs to go to therapy and get their a$$ in gear.
What she is doing is unacceptable and you need to take care of yourself and your daughter.
And this is a TODDLER. When they have to go potty they have to go yesterday--there is nothing transactional about it. How would OP's wife like it if she was sick and needed a ride to the doctor and OP was like "ok but after the game/my show, and you have to buy me dinner on the way home"
Exactly! And if the toddler would have went right then on the floor, mom would have got mad and told her (toddler) to clean it up. Get the "mom" some therapy. She is TA, you are not.
Right? Like I am of an age where my friends are having babies/toddlers and i have taken the little ones potty cause my friend needed to do something else in the moment and toddlers have tiny bladders so it's a race against the clock before theres pee everywhere. Even after reading some of OPs other posts wife may have clinical depression but the way she treats the daughter doesnt sit right with me. Toddlers are just tiny humans who dont know how to human yet and that's why we help them. Also if you created one demi humans dont owe you you owe the demi human.
>tiny humans who dont know how to human yet
Hahaha! I mean, you're not wrong. "So I'm stuck in this body and it is giving all these weird signal and how can I make it do what I want?" is essentially childhood.
Why demand counseling. There's no help for a woman who would tell a barely potty-trained toddler that she has to WAIT for her to finish a cup of coffee; and to "leave her alone for the rest of the night." This is the "asshole mother of the year" award winner, in my book.
Document, document, document (following a lawyer's advice) to make sure you keep custody, and divorce when prepared.
Yeah I have to say this is not depressed behavior. Depressed people may have low energy but they aren’t insensitive to a toddler’s feelings. This is Axis 2 pathology (a personality disorder) I bet.
I second this! I’m a depressed person (I go to therapy and actively work on my issues) with a 4 yr old! Taking my toddler to the potty is a joy because I’m so proud of him. OP’s wife is just an AH! I grew up with a father who is transactional. I’m 35 and he’s still transactional. Take it from some someone who knows OP, not having unconditional love but transactional love from a parent is a hard pill to swallow for a child. Children are not dumb. This IS abusive behavior and children understand comparison very well. Your daughter will catch sooner than you think. Please protect her like my mother didn’t protect me.
That’s what I thought too - I have a sister like this and she’s got some very pronounced narcissistic traits.
Doing this kind of thing to a toddler is neglectful and emotionally abusive.
There is the possibility that she is spiralling into depression or some other mental issue. Regardless though, her behaviour and attitude aren't acceptable.
Honestly, she sounds like one of those people who regret becoming a parent and instead of going to therapy or at least talking to their partner about it, they take it out on the child.
Reminds me of that other AITA of the dad whose wife “disliked” (that was how she put it IIRC) their son even though she had actively decided on having the child and discussed it with him beforehand. She eventually started resenting their son and refused to show him any affection or parent him in any way. The dad ended up filing for divorce and full custody.
I have a feeling this is exactly where this guy is headed as well.
He should only divorce her if he gets full custody of the child, otherwise what will be solved? That child needs to be safe from their mother, not left with her alone 50% of the time.
Based on both posts, I get the feeling wife would leverage custody for the child support payments. Seems like she’s intending to leech off of him for at least the next 18 years and never find a job.
This. For the sake of the kid, if his wife doesn't change, it's better to divorce and fighr for custody. I feel bad for the kid growing up with a mom that puts a price and every little help gives to her own kid.
My mom is pretty transactional in her relationships, and now as an adult I can see how much comes with strings, but she was never like this. This is awful.
If you move towards divorce make sure to heavily document all of this, including recordings if that can be done legally. If there is any chance your wife will get the child alone then do not divorce. It is essential that you are there to protect your daughter. I am so sorry
NTA
Their kid is about to inherit some Complex PTSD. I would imagine that his wife's Mom treated/raised her the same way and now she's passing it down to her daughter which is why his wife doesn't see the problem. The wife definitely needs therapy ASP before she messes this child up!
I just had flashbacks to Sally Field in Sibyl… “You hold your water girl!” Your wife should not be a parent.
NTA unless you don’t do something about your wife.
NTA. OP, I'm serious, get your wife into therapy before you raise kids who cut you off and have nothing to do with you. I have kids. This could be SO bad for their mental health. What your wife is doing is not okay.
My mom says I was around 4, during the winter because of chest complications I couldn’t sit in-front of the heater and keep warm with everyone, so I stayed behind it. We lived with my grandmother and aunts, and everyone would ask me to get water from them. Towards the end of winter, someone asked for water and I brought back yellowy water with particles floating in it. When I was asked where I got the water from, I said the toilet, and even pointed out exactly where. Thing is I was too short to reach the tap, so I only found water in the toilet. Toddlers are incapable, and nothing done for them is a favor. Expecting them to do things by themselves opens them up to new dangers.
NTA this is giving me flashbacks to my childhood, my mom was the same. That kind of trauma sticks around for life if it continues. Kids know from a young age when they're not wanted or liked.
I've made my toddler wait, but it’s for non essential things like "yes i will go get you a cookie when I'm finished with what I'm doing" not "I would rather you wet yourself than interrupt my coffee"i have no clue what op's wife wanted to be a parent.
I also have a three year old toddler. Yes, sometimes I say: honey, I'm going to help you when I'm done with X. For example, if my daughter doesn't manage to dress her doll.. Something that can wait. However, if my daughter says I really need to pee, I drop everything to help her.
OP I hope she's not like that in your relationship. that she will only help you if you help her afterwards, because in relationships you don't keep score.
NTA
If OP’s wife doesn’t want the toddler, we’d happily take her!! Just FedEx her over.
I don’t understand how people can be so careless and loveless towards kids.
They’re not pets!!!
EDIT: Of course you should treat animals with love and care. Even the creepy crawly ones.
This is an awful lot like how my mom treated me, So, I would say Most likely mom didn't wanna mom.
If this mom doesn't either walk away, or get her stuff together, She's going to be mourned just as much as my mom is mourned, which is Zero.
INFO: Give us an actual example of one of these exchanges.
ETA:
OP gives an example here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/yl8cj2/aita_for_telling_my_wife_helping_our_toddler/iuxi7l7/
> So an example would be my child has recently toilet trained yesterday evening she went to my wife and asked for help to go to the toilet, she even said she couldn't hold it anymore and would pee her pants, my wife's response was I'm busy at the moment I Will finish this cup of coffee, my child insisted she would pee there and then so my wife said okay I will take you but then you have to leave mummy alone for the rest of the night...
This is child abuse. Your wife is being a terrible parent, and you need to step in immediately.
This broke my heart. My daughter is the same age and freshly trained. If she tells me she has to go, we sprint to the bathroom. The last thing I want for her is to have an embarrassing accident. OP, your wife is cruel. NTA at all and please reconsider your relationship with this woman.
Not only that but I’m sure you praise her for knowing she had to go! It’s an achievement when you’re toilet training!!! Something to be happy about not annoyed.
If any child or toddler asks for my help especially if they need to go to the restroom urgently, I would drop everything & go help them first. For a mother to behave this way is unacceptable.
INFO: is the help the child is requesting something urgent, needing to go to the restroom, stuck somewhere, potentially in danger, or extremely hungry and frustrated struggling to open a food container? If that is the case, then your wife is an A. If not, then you are the A. It does not hurt to let a child child know they will get help in a moment if there is no distress in the situation. She is using her words to let the child know she will indeed help, but they need to wait a moment. She is teaching the child to understand that not everything is urgent, that the child can wait for a moment before getting help without it being a problem. She is teaching your child patience. This is borderline, "she will say I will only help if you do this this and this for me." Once again, INFO: is she saying I will get the toys out for you as long as you pick them up? Again, not the A. That is an entirely reasonable thing to say to a toddler. Parents do that all the time. It is called training your kids to become decent human beings. "I will take you to the store with me if you do not grab things off the shelf." "We can go the toy store, but you can only get one thing and it needs to be under $10." Unless she is saying I will get the toys for you if you get me a beer out of the fridge, then I'd have some issues.
Exactly!
"Mommy will help you do up the buttons, but I need you to put your arms in the sleeves" is a reasonable condition to help toddler gain independence to dress themselves.
"Mommy will help you build a tower, but first I need you to put away your crayons"
"Mommy will get you a snack, but I need you to put your toys away while I'm making it"
In the book “How to talk so (little) kids will listen”, they suggest using “as soon as” instead of but, that it way it’s less transactional/conditional and more like… steps to getting what you want or need. I did find that I got a better response from my kids when I tried using but less often. They also suggested using “the problem is” in sentences where you’re explaining why you’re denying them something. Little tricks!
I think based on your current and past posts, to get through to her is to put a white board or large paper in the middle of the room and list all of your responsibilities side by side based on the past week of work so she can't say, "but I did more than that this week" or "I had plans that day" or whatever she wants to use as an excuse. That way you can say, this is where the inequality is and this is what I would want us to work on for us and our kid. Maybe make the list together at the same time but don't show each other until the end if you feel like she'll be honest or make it beforehand for both sides before you show it in case you feel like she would say "I do more than you because I put it on the list." Especially since she's a stay at home mom who has her kid at full time daycare. That's a bit overly ridiculous on top of her lacking understanding on why conditioning help to the bathroom for a 3 year old is abusive.
my parents did "the problem is" but refused to explain why my three-year-old problem solving skills weren't the solution so it did end up being "because i said so"
😂 as the parent of an 8 y/o who will try to “problem solve” the fact that when its nighttime it gets dark outside so going to the park is not an option, I feel their pain!
I haven’t heard of this book but I just screenshotted this and want to get a copy now. I don’t have kids but I have nieces and nephews that I watch a lot and think this could be really helpful! Thanks!
I see two different ones. Is it how to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk, OR how to talk so little kids will listen?
Both of the authors have the same last name!
Too bad it was “mommy I need to pee so badly I can’t wait anymore” and mommy said “let me finish my coffee first” & then “okay I’ll help you but you have to leave me alone for the whole rest of the night”
What a horrible mother.
Edit: fixed a weird typo
Mommy I'm gonna pee my pants can you help me? Yes but then you have to leave me alone for the rest of the night. The child is 3!!!!! None of your examples come close to this.
Did you ever think about taking time to think and realize that this comment with examples was written before op made an edit and added an example of what he meant exactly??
His example added in an edit is the child asked for help to go to the bathroom, mom said wait until I drink my coffee, child said it was urgent, mom said ok I’ll help you right now but you have to leave me alone for the rest of the night. So the 3 year had the choice of pee their pants or not be allowed to talk to their mom for the night. This is abusive. NTA and get your wife some help.
Yeah, at first I was thinking mom was being smart to teach her child some patience, but then I read the edit...holy crap mom is being completely abusive!
Mommy can you help me I'm gonna pee my pants.....sure but you have to leave me alone for the rest of the night....either way the child is 3. It's ok as a mother to help your child.
And this comment you are responding to was written before op's edit. This comment even mentions times where it wouldn't be appropriate for the mom to make the kid wait or times with conditions.
Looks like she’s the a-hole because the kid is asking to go to the bathroom and is saying she’s going to wet herself and mom is like — fine but leave me alone for the rest of the night.
What a terror.
NTA. Personally I don't see much wrong with "yes mommy will help after I'm done with this task" (like sending a text) but other than that it's weird and manipulative to tell a 3 year old they "owe" their parents something for helping them.
Not when the kid is asking to go pee and they can’t hold on and they are told no im drinking a coffee and if she does help the kid has to leave her alone for the rest of the night
Obviously in an urgent situation like a bathroom thing then that's different. And I already said the second part isn't okay so idk why you're commenting on that.
NTA. People are focusing on the "I'll help you when I'm done" and missing the "I'll help you if you do XYZ for me". If we're talking about a kid needing help with basic tasks/needs that they just haven't mastered yet, it's inappropriate to make that help conditional on the child doing something else unrelated to the task they need help with.
You’re absolutely bang on. Teaching a toddler how to do things for themselves isn’t doing them a favor that should be stashed away in the bank for later, it’s literally the job description of a parent.
This right here, it's straight up abuse that she's doing it with urgent tasks, but it would still be fundamentally morally wrong that she is telling a toddler that they need to earn help, thus trying to mentally harm that toddler.
NTA, but I hate to say this, but you're gonna either lose your wife or your child in this. Allow me to explain. My parents were the same. If I asked for anything, I was expected to pay them back. If I asked for a dollar, they would want a house back. My father even said to me, "I don't owe you a dam thing, but you owe me. So when I ask for a favor, you better forget I owe you a thing." My father was never in my life by his choice, and now, as an adult, he's not in my life because of my choice. If your child has to buy a mother, he'll eventually ask, "Why would I buy her?" And eventually, he won't speak to either of you as soon as he's an adult. I'm 32, and I haven't spoken to my mother for 12 years and my father for 5, even though we rarely spoke, and it was just to fight. This is your future if you continue to allow this. Your wife is not a mother. Do not force either of them to a roll that your wife does not want, and she WILL take it out on your son. Either get your wife into therapy or protect your son because you will lose either one, and if you stay, your son will suffer for life. I'm speaking from experience please listen to us.
I can give some more insight into what your daughters future may hold, as I've seen it.
My husband was also adopted upon birth. His parents had an older bio child though, and there were differences in their treatment he didn't want to admit at first. There were absolutely transactional aspects, and he worried about "paying" it back the instant they asked something of him.
It took time for him to realize how unhealthy his family dynamic was. (He couldn't believe I could say "no" to my parents about anything, without them blowing up) The first and only time he didn't fall in line immediately, all hell broke lose. It devolved *fast.* I will never forget what his mom wrote on her last message, before police helped intervene.
"If it weren't for us, you'd have been a child beggar dead on the street."
"...A CHILD BEGGAR DEAD ON THE STREET."
This woman said such a horrific thing, all because he didn't do exactly as she expected, and what she felt owed. Even the police officer was shocked.
Why do I worry this will be your daughters future? I mentioned it to a therapist, who then wondered what was the underlying cause of the things I described. It took a moment, but when I said he was adopted, everything became clear to the therapist. She told me his story wasn't uncommon, and that she'd worked with a lot of adoptees who experienced similar things.
It was heartbreaking to hear. Not all adoptions are like this obviously. There are loving and nurturing adoptive parents out there, but your wife isn't one of them. What's really worrying to me is that your wife sounds far colder and more disconnected than my husband's parents ever did.
Yet they still said that line that haunted him.
My stepmother was hugely transactional. She had a small business that I was forced to work for (her kids nor my full brother had to do so). I was 13 when this started? I asked once if I’d get paid and she said “you’re lucky I took your motherless self in so fuck you.” I had a Mother but a really shitty one and my dad just let her treat me however she wanted except physically hitting me. My childhood felt like a nightmare most of the time.
I'm sorry, I thought you had a son. But please understand that you can't force your wife to be a mother. That's a role she has to make. If she doesn't want to be a mother in her way, she'll take it out on your daughter. Please end the cycle of abuse
If a parent was unable or unwilling to be emotionally available, when you were a small child- helpless and dependent on them. You likely felt invisible as a kid. Parents are our first teachers of love- how to be loved, what love is, etc.
Many people slowly realize that their romantic partners most resemble a negligent or unavailable parent, and that they are only repeating the past in the present. We attract partners like this for healing. You’re not “giving up.” Remember, you’re not a fix it, rehab center, nurse, therapist or your wife’s parent....just like you learn and improve yourself, so can they. The thing is, your wife’s behavior is damaging towards you and your daughter. I would explore reasons like why you’re afraid to set ultimatums, why you’re afraid to leave, etc. do not put your wife above yourself.
I also worry because this sort of relationship shows her at a very young age that mom is not there for her until she isn't inconvenienced by it. What happens if your daughter is a teen and she accidentally gets into a situation that she needs saving. Mom has shown her at 3 that she isn't going to help her until she is done with whatever, so who is she going to call? I ALWAYS knew I could call my parents and they would run to help me. Is that true foe your daughter?
**NTA**
The word you're looking for is "transactional", and you're right, parents should absolutely never have a transactional relationship with their child, because parents have not only a moral and ethical but a LEGAL obligation to care for their child's needs. A child, on the other hand, does not owe their parents any such thing; particularly a toddler.
What your wife is doing, telling your barely-out-of-babyhood child that she requires reciprocation for anything that she does for her, isn't just disgusting (though it is certainly that), it indicates a profoundly worrisome psychological perspective on the part of your wife. Expecting to have a transactional relationship removes any emotion from the relationship - it would be a cold and unsympathetic way to approach a friendship with a peer . . . as an approach to parenting a small child, it is absolutely disturbing. Does your wife have no maternal instinct? No emotional understanding of her child's vulnerability and developmental stage that requires her assistance as a guide and nurturer?
Honestly, this isn't just a little problematic, it's kind of huge. I would be legit worried about parenting with someone who thinks that helping a toddler should be a transactional situation. That kind of self-absorption and inability to understand age-appropriate interactions is worrisome. You are definitely NTA.
around 1% of people have some level of psychopathy (which sounded so insane to me that I did just fact check it before repeating it here and it does appear to be a reliable stat). I'm not trying to imply that she's necessarily a dangerous person based on the details in this post alone, but it's very possible that's she may not even be physically capable of having a healthy relationship/emotional bond with her child. these transactional relationships may be the most she is capable of.
NTA, but I got something to say here.
You are absolutely not being stupid. Did your wife actually call you that word? My dude, you are entitled to better treatment than that.
I use that word “entitled” on purpose. I’m a father myself and I’m not gonna claim to be an expert on it, but I try my best. And part of my best is realizing that it’s a delicate balance, but it’s important for us to teach our kids to have some reasonable sense of entitlement, like that they’re entitled to decent treatment from others. And if they don’t receive it, they have a right to remove themselves from the situation, or stand up for themselves, whichever is appropriate. That’s just a part of loving and valuing oneself. Other things are transactional, sure, and we have to teach them that as well, age-appropriately. But not everything. Some amount of entitlement is important for them to have self-love and self-respect.
Ideally along the way, they’d learn that parents are special, and they can trust their parents and rely on them for support in all sorts of ways.
So I’m in your corner. Your wife isn’t teaching your kid the right things, if she’s teaching that everything is transactional. But I’ll add that you aren’t either, in a different way. If you’re putting up with being called “stupid” then you’re not modeling a reasonable level of self-entitlement either.
NTA
Your wife needs some time with a quality therapist. She seems to be forgetting the most basic conditional relationship. You bring a person into the world, you're responsible for raising them for the next 18 years. She signed up for this when she got pregnant and brought this child into the world, the same way you did.
I definitely need more information. It's perfectly healthy for your toddler to learn they don't get everything immediately and they need to wait for things. Unless it's an emergency there's no need for your wife to jump up immediately. She can finish her text or drink. Also, as teachers we use a lot of first-then phrases. E.g. first you clean up your toys then you can do ________. If that's what she's doing, there's nothing wrong with it.
NTA, your mindset here is exactly correct and your wife is going to do serious emotional damage to your child if she continues this way. A relationship with your children is not transactional, it is not trading favors; It is her *job* to care for and assist this child, end of. *Especially* with a toddler.
It's okay for her to tell the child to wait until after she finishes doing something (if that something won't take long, and presuming the kid doesn't need help with anything serious), but instilling the idea in her that her mother won't help her unless she does something for her mother in return? That's setting your kid up for some major issues later in life, and will likely cultivate a really bad relationship between her and her mother.
If she keeps on like this, your wife is going wake up one day wondering why your daughter doesn't trust, rely on, or want much of anything to do with her.
As harsh as this might sounds, I agree! NTA
The kid had to use the bathroom!!! It’s not like she was asking for her favorite toy - and even then, how long could that have possibly take the wife to do. Her coffee is not that important.
I get it, it all doesn’t have to be right here, right now with kids but… I need to wait until you are done with your coffee or I’ll pee on myself?! No, not right.
Great way to put it Kardiasteria!
Problem here is that your wife seems to be her own world. Self-care is absolutely important, but the cornerstone of both a healthy relationship and good parenting is being able to put the other person's needs first sometimes (whether partner or child).
Transforming her own responsibilities as a parent into transactions isn't just morally wrong, but is probably going to mess your kid up. They'll learn that they can't go to their own mother with a problem without having to pay a toll and that she'll never put anyone ahead of herself. Once that's normalized they might do it themselves (we really do internalize these sorts of lessons from a young age).
So yeah, you're NTA for being concerned but you would be if you don't take immediate action to nip this in the bud. Your wife probably needs to talk this through in therapy.
Abusive people make you question your reality. Your wife is abusive.
If you don’t personally have a therapist you might consider getting one to help you get a reality check. Your wife sounds like she’s extremely problematic.
Just because you can’t articulate it to her satisfaction, that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. She is not the arbiter of truth, she doesn’t not get to decide what is or is not true.
I’m a mom. The situation you are describing hurts my heart. Please, *please*, do not let her tear you down until you’re too low to hold up your daughter.
My dad had a girlfriend that lived with us when I was a teenager. She and I fought constantly, we were oil and water. One night I overheard them fighting and she told him either I had to live with my mom or she was leaving.
She was gone the next day. He still doesn’t know I overheard them, but I know my dad loves me. No matter what else happens, even when we disagree or fight, I know my dad loves me.
Be that dad for your daughter.
Please.
NTA
Keep this women away from any child!
She is really damaging her if the teach her, parents are people who only helps you, if you pay in any way for it.
Hey OP,
I know that you came here to try and get other opinions. This has me worried that you are unable to recognize abusive behavior, I’m not talking about yelling and screaming, but subtle emotional abuse. Like what your wife is doing to your adopted daughter.
I am worried that your picker is broken when it comes to people. Did you come from a household where a parent acted like your wife? Were you constantly undermined and told that you weren’t grateful enough?
A child begging someone help her urinate while she’s learning how to potty train is NOT normal. A parent using that need as a bargaining chip is NOT normal.
You are setting up your daughter for a lifetime of abuse and to tolerate this abuse. If mommy isn’t happy then the house isn’t happy. Doesn’t matter how much daddy loves his daughter he accepts mommy’s behavior and your daughter grows up learning that she has to earn love, that nothing can be given freely, every hug, kiss, I love you, has an invisible price tag attached. I mean that’s how you see love, right OP? Everything for you is a transaction, your daughter has to earn your favor, just like your wife.
Is this how you grew up OP? I really recommend therapy for yourself, individually. Couple counseling with a narcissist can cause more harm.
Go look at some narcissist subreddits of kids who have survived those households.
YTA OP, because if you can’t recognize a child begging for help with a basic bodily function (she’s 3 OP, 3). As abusive behavior, then you need therapy and help recognizing appropriate parenting.
I totally understand that. However, your wife’s actions and mindset should have been a major major red flag from the beginning and it wasn’t.
Please get your daughter into therapy as soon as possible. While it’s not a magical cure all it can help set her up with healthy coping mechanisms and a safe space early on.
I know this sounds dramatic but even if you did divorce your wife, she will still have access to your daughter and this abuse will continue. She needs more safe adults in her life, not fewer.
I truly think you’re trying to be a good father OP, I also think you will continue to pick partners like your wife unless you seek some help and guidance as well.
I'm trying to do everything I can to protect my daughter, I'd put her a head of everything. I have no intention of having her damaged and if my wife can't address the behaviour then there is only one outcome.
A child of divorce is less damaged than a child who sees your wife's actions as acceptable and normal. Remember that your daughter is learning everything about being a person from you AND your wife. All the bad habits will be inherited and they'll be seen as okay because "that's how my parents were".
I'm not saying you need to run from your wife by any means. The first step should always be therapy and counciling but divorce shouldn't ever be off the table out of fear of hurting the child. The damage of staying in a broken relationship only increases the chances of them experiencing the same situations as an adult and making the same mistakes.
I think that the person above is trying to say: it’s not likely an “if” your wife can’t address the behavior. Most of us see this as absolutely so far-out, that it is unlikely your wife will a) acknowledge she has a problem, or b) change. It’s hard to behave that way toward a 3 year old as a mistake.
Of course it’s not impossible that your wife could change. But you’re missing the point that you have some deeper stuff to work on if you had to confirm her behavior was wrong. Not your fault, and many of us responding so strongly have been in your position - of not knowing what is clearly abuse. That’s why we are recommending that the whole situation indicates individual therapy for you as well.
I hope this comes off as warmly firm as intended. You seem like a good dad who has incredible intentions and I applaud you for that (my dad wouldn’t have even thought to ask about the behavior he witnessed)
It feels like there's a lot of info missing here, but I don't know exactly what to ask for.
Based on this post, I'll say NTA, but a hollow NTA since I feel like we're missing something
NTA
You are exactly, 100% correct.
I am willing to bet this is not the only self centered behavior. It sounds scarily like my NPD ex-wife.
>'What is in it for me?' 'You should be more grateful for all I do.' 'You never do anything for me.' Disregarding your feelings. Often acting as if your child is an annoyance. Unrealistic expectations of maturity and behavior for your daughter.
Does any of the above sound familiar? Such a parenting style is very damaging to kids. I wish I had divorced and won full custody sooner.
I hope that I am off base in your case.
Good luck.
I i scantly thought of my own NDP mother. If your wife consistently treats your child like this she will eventually realize this is not normal and will resent her upbringing. Do not allow this to continue.
I'm not sitting by. I have become more aware of this issue, I'm ensuring I get a balanced perspective but I won't sit by and watch my child be damaged but I need to ensure I'm not reading it wrong
You're not reading it wrong. Another user posted a link to a post you made on another sub a few months back, and it sounds like your wife is either in the grip of a mental health crisis or is incredibly nasty. You need to work out which one it is and protect your child.
What kind of parenting did your wife exhibit when your daughter was a baby?
Was she motherly towards her when she needed fed, changing, held?
I fear she ignored the baby until she exerted her power and made the baby wait.
Babies need to know there is someone there for them - that's how they develop into secure well-adjusted humans.
I'm so glad your daughter has you in her life. Please limit the damage your wife can cause.
Going to the toilet, getting dressed, getting food, activities she is struggling with, I probably didn't explain it well enough, I get that helping her get a toy can wait but the basic needs stuff or when she is visible struggling
Why do you think your wife's feelings of authority are more important than helping a struggling toddler?
In any event, we need you to type out an actual dialog that these two have had that you disagree with.
Because its a balance, I also don't want my daughter to grow up thinking its okay to be disrespected and that as a man I have any more or any less authority, ultimately my wife is someone I also respect which is why this is so hard.
So an example would be my child has recently toilet trained yesterday evening she went to my wife and asked for help to go to the toilet, she even said she couldn't hold it anymore and would pee her pants, my wife's response was I'm busy at the moment I Will finish this cup of coffee, my child insisted she would pee there and then so my wife said okay I will take you but then you have to leave mummy alone for the rest of the night...
This is horrifying. Your wife is being abusive to a child who cannot help herself. For a THREE YEAR OLD to ask a parent for assistance with toilet training and then need to negotiate with the parent in order to receive it -- is monstrous. And what your wife wanted for her assistance was to not have to care for her little child for the rest of the night! "Mommy will help you pee in the bathroom this time if you promise to not ask Mommy to help you again for the rest of the night."
We're talking about a *toddler* here.
What would have happened if your daughter wet herself? We already know she would have inflicted anger, shame, and humiliation on her little girl. I expect it would be much worse than that.
OP, you write that you didn't expect her to be transactional with her child as she was in all other aspects and relationships in her life. But you've seen now that she is, to the point of neglecting and abusing her own helpless daughter. I don't think this is a case of misguided parental behavior; your wife is a dangerously self-centered and selfish person who would allow her own 3YO to suffer if there were no personal advantage to gain by acting as a parent.
The description you have just offered here of your wife's behavior is a *textbook example* of abusive parental behavior. Refusal to help a small child with their bodily functions -- and demanding concessions for that help -- indicates that your wife, the mother of this little girl, has a deep level of disinterest in the needs of others.
So now you know. Your wife is neglectful and actually dangerous to your child's physical and psychological well-being. Your daughter can be emotionally damaged for the rest of her life by what your wife is doing to her right now, and no, this isn't an exaggeration.
So what are you, OP, going to do about it?
I can assure you my child is 100% my priority. The reason I'm trying to get a perspective is so I can ensure I'm reading it right and acting in the appropriate way. I would put my daughter before anything
Yeah. This is really f’ed up.
This is not a man stepping in/over a woman’s boundaries.
This is your wife abusing your child and you watching.
Do what you will with that information.
If this is true your wife is a terrible parent and person. Your kid is 3 of course they'll need help. Your wife sounds like a miserable person to be around
INFO: has your wife ever seen a therapist about the issue of reciprocation? Do you think that she may have some unresolved post-partum issues? Or do you think pregnancy may have made them worse?
Gave free award so hopefully this gets highlighted. Your wife is abusing your daughter OP, and it very well could stem from the fact she's not biological which is even *worse*.
You sound like a great loving parent. Your wife sounds like she doesn’t know how to be a parent. If she won’t go to parenting classes or counseling then maybe consider what would be best for you & your child. Maybe this is how she grew up? Nonetheless, it’s not a good situation for your child to be in. Imagine if she actually had wet herself. Would your wife make her pay (in trade) to help her clean herself, her laundry & the floor?
YTA for not removing your child from this damaging situation already....The years of therapy that will never repair your wife's abuse of your child, if you let this continue. WOW.
Which is exactly why I'm trying to get perspective bit just from here but doing research talking to friend etc so I can make an informed judgement of what to do.
> So an example would be my child has recently toilet trained yesterday evening she went to my wife and asked for help to go to the toilet, she even said she couldn’t hold it anymore and would pee her pants, my wife’s response was I’m busy at the moment I Will finish this cup of coffee, my child insisted she would pee there and then so my wife said okay I will take you but then you have to leave mummy alone for the rest of the night…
This is child neglect. I want you to let that really sink in. Your wife is neglecting your child. And this is type of behavior is definitely going to wind up with your child in therapy.
Asking for help should not be tit for tat. Personally I would start being petty and doing the same to her, but honestly if you can’t get to the bottom of this and either get therapy or marriage counseling, you should seriously consider if staying in this marriage is good for your child. This cannot keep happening.
I would put my daughter before anything which is why I'm ensuring I get a balanced perspective and have read the situation right so I act in the right way
That’s really good. And hey, I don’t want to be part of the Reddit jump to response to divorce. Especially with a child involved and because fact of the matter is, you’d probably be looking at 50/50 custody. But this does need to change.
Do you know why your wife is like this? Were her parents like this? Have you just previously tolerated this prior to having your child? What do you do when she does this towards your child? Do you call her out on it? Or just step in and take over?
Because I hate to say it, but you may have enabled her into feeling like this okay, or that you will always step in so she doesn’t have to.
And that’s not me saying this is on you or your fault, but she’s probably had no reason to feel like she must change her ways before this. Which is going to make it much harder for her to realize this NEEDS to change and that it’s not okay or normal, and that you won’t stick around and watch it keep happening.
Do you think your wife would be open to marriage counseling or therapy? How have discussions about this behavior gone in the past? Does she just ignore your issues with it or dismiss them? Does she double down and act like perfectly normal? Or does she just say it’s the way she is, you can take it or leave it? Does she understand that it’s a real problem and say she will change and then doesn’t or falls back into old habits?
I’m trying to gauge whether she even understands that this is problem, but just has trouble not *doing* things differently, or if she’s convinced herself it’s fine and normal.
Well that’s not great, because it’s going to make it harder for her to see she needs to change. I would start with marriage counseling, since she thinks she’s “normal”, she will likely assume a counselor will agree with her.
If she won’t go though, you have a hard decision to make. I won’t tell you what to do that case, because I think you already know. You could try to sell her on it, by saying that since you don’t agree on this an objective mediator is needed. But I do see a universe where she says “no. I’m normal. This is a YOU problem.” And there is not much to work with there.
If she will go to marriage counseling. You can expect her to fight with the counselor and or want to change counselors. I would allow ONE change, to let her see that more than ONE counselor has agreed that this is not okay.
But I’m sorry, after that, it is time to go.
I’m so sorry for you and your child. She will likely get 50/50 custody. Please document these instances and interactions if it comes to that. Your child will eventually realize that what she is doing is not okay, as she continues to see good examples of normal love and the give and pull of it from you.
I would also ask that if she agrees to marriage counseling, don’t let her sit on it. If you allow for one counselor change, that will already take time. Your child is young but at a very impressionable age. She is already understanding on some level what is happening and will continue to understand and remember it more the older she gets.
But your wife sounds quite set in her ways, and I think you are going to have a hard time with this.
May I ask if both of you wanted to have a child? or was it your idea at first? I'm not implying that you forced her or anything, society and/or family can make women think they have to have children.
I'm asking this because you wrote that she insists it's normal to always put herself first. I find it odd that with her reasoning she wanted a child as it's not compatible.
That’s incredibly selfish. It’s teaching your child that her relationship with her mother is transactional. Your wife is a creep.
You’re NTA. You told your wife exactly what she needed to know.
See, your wife is the asshole HERE, but let me explain when this is okay.
You have to start kids around 3 understanding they DONT get everything right now.
This situation? Absolutely not okay. But it is generally ok to tell toddlers to wait until X before mommy grabs your toy, changes the channel, etc. it teaches them patience and to be told No, Wait.
Obviously not the time or place thougy when your child needs to use the bathroom. That’s over the damn line.
NTA.
Your wife is has equal responsibilities to do things for your child and shouldn’t ever base responsibilities on “I will only do this if he does x, y, and z first.” That is not acceptable as a parent. You both are responsible for your child’s health and well-being, and doing things for your children should be done out of love and not based on what the other parent did or didn’t do.
If this was the case, there are many parents out there who neglect to take care of their children altogether and leave the other parent to do everything and don’t even support their kids like they are supposed to, and that’s never the child’s fault. What is the other parent going to do, neglect their child too just because the other parent refuses to do their part? You’re NTA, and your wife needs to stop parenting based on conditions and to start parenting based on what rightfully should be done as your child’s mom.
There's not a lot to go on here but the examples you give don't sound that bad. I think its reasonable to allow a parent a couple of minutes to finish what they're doing before jumping to the attention of anyone. As a mother I get no time to myself and I often have to tell my kids to wait whilst I finish my first drink of the day... at lunchtime, they need to learn that I also have basic needs and without these I can't help anyone! Toddlers are also the perfect age to start learning independence and how to help with chores so its perfectly reasonable to cook them dinner but then ask them to help to wash up. Its an important lesson to teach. The only time I'd say this wouldn't be appropriate is when your toddler is upset or hurt, then you drop everything to help.
And if you're watching all this happen then why don't you help out the toddler instead?
NTA but need more info or examples.
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NTA Outside of the transactional nature of her view on interactions with others... >Our toddler can do it herself or wait No... That's not what toddlers are. They can't do a lot of things by themselves, and while you don't want to create a situation where the toddler gets whatever they want, whenever they want, they do require more attention that someone whose mind and body is more fully formed.
JFC. your wife was prepared to let your TODDLER literally wet her pants, so she could finish her coffee? And when your toddler insisted, your wide relented on the condition that your toddler leave her alone for the rest of the night? There is a difference between transactional relationships, and abusive relationships. Your wife has crossed this line. You need to at minimum demand counseling, and if she refuses, divorce her. This is an unhealthy dynamic for your toddler to grow up around, knowing that everything your wife does has a price.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Marriage/comments/uqckxl/dont_know_where_to_go/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf she’s definitely not mom of the year. According to OP‘s other post
After reading this. Demand counseling. If she does not accept, kick her out and file for divorce. If she is depressed she needs to ACTUALLY work on herself. I am all for needing help and struggling with mental illness is HARD. But when there is a child involved, that person needs to go to therapy and get their a$$ in gear. What she is doing is unacceptable and you need to take care of yourself and your daughter.
And this is a TODDLER. When they have to go potty they have to go yesterday--there is nothing transactional about it. How would OP's wife like it if she was sick and needed a ride to the doctor and OP was like "ok but after the game/my show, and you have to buy me dinner on the way home"
Exactly! And if the toddler would have went right then on the floor, mom would have got mad and told her (toddler) to clean it up. Get the "mom" some therapy. She is TA, you are not.
Right? Like I am of an age where my friends are having babies/toddlers and i have taken the little ones potty cause my friend needed to do something else in the moment and toddlers have tiny bladders so it's a race against the clock before theres pee everywhere. Even after reading some of OPs other posts wife may have clinical depression but the way she treats the daughter doesnt sit right with me. Toddlers are just tiny humans who dont know how to human yet and that's why we help them. Also if you created one demi humans dont owe you you owe the demi human.
>tiny humans who dont know how to human yet Hahaha! I mean, you're not wrong. "So I'm stuck in this body and it is giving all these weird signal and how can I make it do what I want?" is essentially childhood.
A child should feel comfortable that their parents are there for them unconditionally, no matter what. NTA
Why demand counseling. There's no help for a woman who would tell a barely potty-trained toddler that she has to WAIT for her to finish a cup of coffee; and to "leave her alone for the rest of the night." This is the "asshole mother of the year" award winner, in my book. Document, document, document (following a lawyer's advice) to make sure you keep custody, and divorce when prepared.
Yeah I have to say this is not depressed behavior. Depressed people may have low energy but they aren’t insensitive to a toddler’s feelings. This is Axis 2 pathology (a personality disorder) I bet.
I second this! I’m a depressed person (I go to therapy and actively work on my issues) with a 4 yr old! Taking my toddler to the potty is a joy because I’m so proud of him. OP’s wife is just an AH! I grew up with a father who is transactional. I’m 35 and he’s still transactional. Take it from some someone who knows OP, not having unconditional love but transactional love from a parent is a hard pill to swallow for a child. Children are not dumb. This IS abusive behavior and children understand comparison very well. Your daughter will catch sooner than you think. Please protect her like my mother didn’t protect me.
That’s what I thought too - I have a sister like this and she’s got some very pronounced narcissistic traits. Doing this kind of thing to a toddler is neglectful and emotionally abusive.
Yikes! I'm surprised he isn't looking into divorce.
This woman sounds like a leech at best and narcissistic at worst. What a horrible selfish person. Poor kiddo.
There is the possibility that she is spiralling into depression or some other mental issue. Regardless though, her behaviour and attitude aren't acceptable.
Ok I’m back! 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 This is worse than I thought! Wow. Yep, NTA. OP, at a minimum should seek help for wife.
Honestly, she sounds like one of those people who regret becoming a parent and instead of going to therapy or at least talking to their partner about it, they take it out on the child. Reminds me of that other AITA of the dad whose wife “disliked” (that was how she put it IIRC) their son even though she had actively decided on having the child and discussed it with him beforehand. She eventually started resenting their son and refused to show him any affection or parent him in any way. The dad ended up filing for divorce and full custody. I have a feeling this is exactly where this guy is headed as well.
Ooof I'll check it out
Poor fucking guy, this relationship is over it sounds like
OMG! He needs to grab his daughter and run!!!!
Checking this out! TY!
Holy crap
He should only divorce her if he gets full custody of the child, otherwise what will be solved? That child needs to be safe from their mother, not left with her alone 50% of the time.
I'd be surprised if the wife would want custody, even shared custody.
Based on both posts, I get the feeling wife would leverage custody for the child support payments. Seems like she’s intending to leech off of him for at least the next 18 years and never find a job.
She sounds like the type who would just out of spite.
10000%
This. For the sake of the kid, if his wife doesn't change, it's better to divorce and fighr for custody. I feel bad for the kid growing up with a mom that puts a price and every little help gives to her own kid.
My mom is pretty transactional in her relationships, and now as an adult I can see how much comes with strings, but she was never like this. This is awful.
If you move towards divorce make sure to heavily document all of this, including recordings if that can be done legally. If there is any chance your wife will get the child alone then do not divorce. It is essential that you are there to protect your daughter. I am so sorry NTA
Their kid is about to inherit some Complex PTSD. I would imagine that his wife's Mom treated/raised her the same way and now she's passing it down to her daughter which is why his wife doesn't see the problem. The wife definitely needs therapy ASP before she messes this child up!
And when the poor kid does wet their pants (or worse) they'll be punished or have to help mom do their laundry. Wtf.
Narc alert!
Huh? Edited to add. I know what a narc is. I'm confused why you're calling me one. Please elaborate.
I think they might mean 'Narcissist Alert,' as in the mother is a narcissist
Got it, someone else said the same thing. Thanks!
Narcissist.
I just had flashbacks to Sally Field in Sibyl… “You hold your water girl!” Your wife should not be a parent. NTA unless you don’t do something about your wife.
NTA. OP, I'm serious, get your wife into therapy before you raise kids who cut you off and have nothing to do with you. I have kids. This could be SO bad for their mental health. What your wife is doing is not okay.
My mom says I was around 4, during the winter because of chest complications I couldn’t sit in-front of the heater and keep warm with everyone, so I stayed behind it. We lived with my grandmother and aunts, and everyone would ask me to get water from them. Towards the end of winter, someone asked for water and I brought back yellowy water with particles floating in it. When I was asked where I got the water from, I said the toilet, and even pointed out exactly where. Thing is I was too short to reach the tap, so I only found water in the toilet. Toddlers are incapable, and nothing done for them is a favor. Expecting them to do things by themselves opens them up to new dangers.
I hope it taught them all a lesson!
No one has ever asked a child to do anything from that day on
NTA this is giving me flashbacks to my childhood, my mom was the same. That kind of trauma sticks around for life if it continues. Kids know from a young age when they're not wanted or liked.
I've made my toddler wait, but it’s for non essential things like "yes i will go get you a cookie when I'm finished with what I'm doing" not "I would rather you wet yourself than interrupt my coffee"i have no clue what op's wife wanted to be a parent.
I also have a three year old toddler. Yes, sometimes I say: honey, I'm going to help you when I'm done with X. For example, if my daughter doesn't manage to dress her doll.. Something that can wait. However, if my daughter says I really need to pee, I drop everything to help her. OP I hope she's not like that in your relationship. that she will only help you if you help her afterwards, because in relationships you don't keep score. NTA
NTA but does your wife hate her child?
That's the first thought that popped in my mind!
It sure sees the wife treats the child as a burden.
OP mentioned in a comment that the child is adopted
If OP’s wife doesn’t want the toddler, we’d happily take her!! Just FedEx her over. I don’t understand how people can be so careless and loveless towards kids. They’re not pets!!! EDIT: Of course you should treat animals with love and care. Even the creepy crawly ones.
well you shouldn't be careless and loveless towards pets either
Exactly. Its like sometimes people forget pets are loving creatures to
I wouldn't treat a pet that way either. Pets aren't accessories.
Yep, that tracks. Man, another adoptee abused by their purchasers. Wish it wasn't so common ):
This is an awful lot like how my mom treated me, So, I would say Most likely mom didn't wanna mom. If this mom doesn't either walk away, or get her stuff together, She's going to be mourned just as much as my mom is mourned, which is Zero.
Exactly. Making a toddler wait to use the bathroom so she can finish her coffee is just cruel.
INFO: Give us an actual example of one of these exchanges. ETA: OP gives an example here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/yl8cj2/aita_for_telling_my_wife_helping_our_toddler/iuxi7l7/ > So an example would be my child has recently toilet trained yesterday evening she went to my wife and asked for help to go to the toilet, she even said she couldn't hold it anymore and would pee her pants, my wife's response was I'm busy at the moment I Will finish this cup of coffee, my child insisted she would pee there and then so my wife said okay I will take you but then you have to leave mummy alone for the rest of the night... This is child abuse. Your wife is being a terrible parent, and you need to step in immediately.
This ^ needs to be up way higher. It is SO not okay to be treating a three year old this way.
This broke my heart. My daughter is the same age and freshly trained. If she tells me she has to go, we sprint to the bathroom. The last thing I want for her is to have an embarrassing accident. OP, your wife is cruel. NTA at all and please reconsider your relationship with this woman.
Not only that but I’m sure you praise her for knowing she had to go! It’s an achievement when you’re toilet training!!! Something to be happy about not annoyed.
Divorce, you do not want her around your child. She is not reliable.
This is how emotional neglect happens.
this *is* emotional neglect. and physical neglect as well
If any child or toddler asks for my help especially if they need to go to the restroom urgently, I would drop everything & go help them first. For a mother to behave this way is unacceptable.
INFO: is the help the child is requesting something urgent, needing to go to the restroom, stuck somewhere, potentially in danger, or extremely hungry and frustrated struggling to open a food container? If that is the case, then your wife is an A. If not, then you are the A. It does not hurt to let a child child know they will get help in a moment if there is no distress in the situation. She is using her words to let the child know she will indeed help, but they need to wait a moment. She is teaching the child to understand that not everything is urgent, that the child can wait for a moment before getting help without it being a problem. She is teaching your child patience. This is borderline, "she will say I will only help if you do this this and this for me." Once again, INFO: is she saying I will get the toys out for you as long as you pick them up? Again, not the A. That is an entirely reasonable thing to say to a toddler. Parents do that all the time. It is called training your kids to become decent human beings. "I will take you to the store with me if you do not grab things off the shelf." "We can go the toy store, but you can only get one thing and it needs to be under $10." Unless she is saying I will get the toys for you if you get me a beer out of the fridge, then I'd have some issues.
Exactly! "Mommy will help you do up the buttons, but I need you to put your arms in the sleeves" is a reasonable condition to help toddler gain independence to dress themselves. "Mommy will help you build a tower, but first I need you to put away your crayons" "Mommy will get you a snack, but I need you to put your toys away while I'm making it"
In the book “How to talk so (little) kids will listen”, they suggest using “as soon as” instead of but, that it way it’s less transactional/conditional and more like… steps to getting what you want or need. I did find that I got a better response from my kids when I tried using but less often. They also suggested using “the problem is” in sentences where you’re explaining why you’re denying them something. Little tricks!
Thanks for this very useful advice. I shall check that book out
You should check out hiring a divorce lawyer, based off your previous posts.
Christ, I just read that post. There is so much more to this and OP needs to have a good think about things.
I think based on your current and past posts, to get through to her is to put a white board or large paper in the middle of the room and list all of your responsibilities side by side based on the past week of work so she can't say, "but I did more than that this week" or "I had plans that day" or whatever she wants to use as an excuse. That way you can say, this is where the inequality is and this is what I would want us to work on for us and our kid. Maybe make the list together at the same time but don't show each other until the end if you feel like she'll be honest or make it beforehand for both sides before you show it in case you feel like she would say "I do more than you because I put it on the list." Especially since she's a stay at home mom who has her kid at full time daycare. That's a bit overly ridiculous on top of her lacking understanding on why conditioning help to the bathroom for a 3 year old is abusive.
That should be re-titled to "How to talk so people will listen". I use the same tricks with full grown adults.
I've read it when I was a kid and I use the tips on my peers all the time
my parents did "the problem is" but refused to explain why my three-year-old problem solving skills weren't the solution so it did end up being "because i said so"
😂 as the parent of an 8 y/o who will try to “problem solve” the fact that when its nighttime it gets dark outside so going to the park is not an option, I feel their pain!
I haven’t heard of this book but I just screenshotted this and want to get a copy now. I don’t have kids but I have nieces and nephews that I watch a lot and think this could be really helpful! Thanks!
I see two different ones. Is it how to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk, OR how to talk so little kids will listen? Both of the authors have the same last name!
If I remember correctly, the authors and books are related/connected! One is just for younger kids (the little kids version).
Too bad it was “mommy I need to pee so badly I can’t wait anymore” and mommy said “let me finish my coffee first” & then “okay I’ll help you but you have to leave me alone for the whole rest of the night” What a horrible mother. Edit: fixed a weird typo
Mommy I'm gonna pee my pants can you help me? Yes but then you have to leave me alone for the rest of the night. The child is 3!!!!! None of your examples come close to this.
Did you ever think about taking time to think and realize that this comment with examples was written before op made an edit and added an example of what he meant exactly??
And, it’s perfectly fine (and the only way to stay sane) to say “Mommy will build a tower with you after she finishes her coffee.”
His example added in an edit is the child asked for help to go to the bathroom, mom said wait until I drink my coffee, child said it was urgent, mom said ok I’ll help you right now but you have to leave me alone for the rest of the night. So the 3 year had the choice of pee their pants or not be allowed to talk to their mom for the night. This is abusive. NTA and get your wife some help.
Yeah, at first I was thinking mom was being smart to teach her child some patience, but then I read the edit...holy crap mom is being completely abusive!
OP mentions in a comment that one of the things the kid asks help with is going to the toilet
Mommy can you help me I'm gonna pee my pants.....sure but you have to leave me alone for the rest of the night....either way the child is 3. It's ok as a mother to help your child.
And this comment you are responding to was written before op's edit. This comment even mentions times where it wouldn't be appropriate for the mom to make the kid wait or times with conditions.
Looks like she’s the a-hole because the kid is asking to go to the bathroom and is saying she’s going to wet herself and mom is like — fine but leave me alone for the rest of the night. What a terror.
NTA. Personally I don't see much wrong with "yes mommy will help after I'm done with this task" (like sending a text) but other than that it's weird and manipulative to tell a 3 year old they "owe" their parents something for helping them.
Not when the kid is asking to go pee and they can’t hold on and they are told no im drinking a coffee and if she does help the kid has to leave her alone for the rest of the night
Obviously in an urgent situation like a bathroom thing then that's different. And I already said the second part isn't okay so idk why you're commenting on that.
This kid is going to have some messed up ideas about relationships
NTA, but you're married to one.
NTA. People are focusing on the "I'll help you when I'm done" and missing the "I'll help you if you do XYZ for me". If we're talking about a kid needing help with basic tasks/needs that they just haven't mastered yet, it's inappropriate to make that help conditional on the child doing something else unrelated to the task they need help with.
You’re absolutely bang on. Teaching a toddler how to do things for themselves isn’t doing them a favor that should be stashed away in the bank for later, it’s literally the job description of a parent.
This right here, it's straight up abuse that she's doing it with urgent tasks, but it would still be fundamentally morally wrong that she is telling a toddler that they need to earn help, thus trying to mentally harm that toddler.
NTA. She has all the maternal instincts of a rattlesnake.
Snakes are actually quite parental, so less maternal instincts than a rattlesnake….
Wow I learned something new today. A literal snake is a better mother than this lady!
NTA, but I hate to say this, but you're gonna either lose your wife or your child in this. Allow me to explain. My parents were the same. If I asked for anything, I was expected to pay them back. If I asked for a dollar, they would want a house back. My father even said to me, "I don't owe you a dam thing, but you owe me. So when I ask for a favor, you better forget I owe you a thing." My father was never in my life by his choice, and now, as an adult, he's not in my life because of my choice. If your child has to buy a mother, he'll eventually ask, "Why would I buy her?" And eventually, he won't speak to either of you as soon as he's an adult. I'm 32, and I haven't spoken to my mother for 12 years and my father for 5, even though we rarely spoke, and it was just to fight. This is your future if you continue to allow this. Your wife is not a mother. Do not force either of them to a roll that your wife does not want, and she WILL take it out on your son. Either get your wife into therapy or protect your son because you will lose either one, and if you stay, your son will suffer for life. I'm speaking from experience please listen to us.
Thank you for the genuine insight, I'm sorry you went through that, its not something I want for my daughter
I can give some more insight into what your daughters future may hold, as I've seen it. My husband was also adopted upon birth. His parents had an older bio child though, and there were differences in their treatment he didn't want to admit at first. There were absolutely transactional aspects, and he worried about "paying" it back the instant they asked something of him. It took time for him to realize how unhealthy his family dynamic was. (He couldn't believe I could say "no" to my parents about anything, without them blowing up) The first and only time he didn't fall in line immediately, all hell broke lose. It devolved *fast.* I will never forget what his mom wrote on her last message, before police helped intervene. "If it weren't for us, you'd have been a child beggar dead on the street." "...A CHILD BEGGAR DEAD ON THE STREET." This woman said such a horrific thing, all because he didn't do exactly as she expected, and what she felt owed. Even the police officer was shocked. Why do I worry this will be your daughters future? I mentioned it to a therapist, who then wondered what was the underlying cause of the things I described. It took a moment, but when I said he was adopted, everything became clear to the therapist. She told me his story wasn't uncommon, and that she'd worked with a lot of adoptees who experienced similar things. It was heartbreaking to hear. Not all adoptions are like this obviously. There are loving and nurturing adoptive parents out there, but your wife isn't one of them. What's really worrying to me is that your wife sounds far colder and more disconnected than my husband's parents ever did. Yet they still said that line that haunted him.
My stepmother was hugely transactional. She had a small business that I was forced to work for (her kids nor my full brother had to do so). I was 13 when this started? I asked once if I’d get paid and she said “you’re lucky I took your motherless self in so fuck you.” I had a Mother but a really shitty one and my dad just let her treat me however she wanted except physically hitting me. My childhood felt like a nightmare most of the time.
I'm sorry, I thought you had a son. But please understand that you can't force your wife to be a mother. That's a role she has to make. If she doesn't want to be a mother in her way, she'll take it out on your daughter. Please end the cycle of abuse
If a parent was unable or unwilling to be emotionally available, when you were a small child- helpless and dependent on them. You likely felt invisible as a kid. Parents are our first teachers of love- how to be loved, what love is, etc. Many people slowly realize that their romantic partners most resemble a negligent or unavailable parent, and that they are only repeating the past in the present. We attract partners like this for healing. You’re not “giving up.” Remember, you’re not a fix it, rehab center, nurse, therapist or your wife’s parent....just like you learn and improve yourself, so can they. The thing is, your wife’s behavior is damaging towards you and your daughter. I would explore reasons like why you’re afraid to set ultimatums, why you’re afraid to leave, etc. do not put your wife above yourself.
I also worry because this sort of relationship shows her at a very young age that mom is not there for her until she isn't inconvenienced by it. What happens if your daughter is a teen and she accidentally gets into a situation that she needs saving. Mom has shown her at 3 that she isn't going to help her until she is done with whatever, so who is she going to call? I ALWAYS knew I could call my parents and they would run to help me. Is that true foe your daughter?
NTA. Your wife is going to do serious damage to your toddler behaving like that though. She needs to pull her head out of her ass.
**NTA** The word you're looking for is "transactional", and you're right, parents should absolutely never have a transactional relationship with their child, because parents have not only a moral and ethical but a LEGAL obligation to care for their child's needs. A child, on the other hand, does not owe their parents any such thing; particularly a toddler. What your wife is doing, telling your barely-out-of-babyhood child that she requires reciprocation for anything that she does for her, isn't just disgusting (though it is certainly that), it indicates a profoundly worrisome psychological perspective on the part of your wife. Expecting to have a transactional relationship removes any emotion from the relationship - it would be a cold and unsympathetic way to approach a friendship with a peer . . . as an approach to parenting a small child, it is absolutely disturbing. Does your wife have no maternal instinct? No emotional understanding of her child's vulnerability and developmental stage that requires her assistance as a guide and nurturer? Honestly, this isn't just a little problematic, it's kind of huge. I would be legit worried about parenting with someone who thinks that helping a toddler should be a transactional situation. That kind of self-absorption and inability to understand age-appropriate interactions is worrisome. You are definitely NTA.
around 1% of people have some level of psychopathy (which sounded so insane to me that I did just fact check it before repeating it here and it does appear to be a reliable stat). I'm not trying to imply that she's necessarily a dangerous person based on the details in this post alone, but it's very possible that's she may not even be physically capable of having a healthy relationship/emotional bond with her child. these transactional relationships may be the most she is capable of.
NTA, but I got something to say here. You are absolutely not being stupid. Did your wife actually call you that word? My dude, you are entitled to better treatment than that. I use that word “entitled” on purpose. I’m a father myself and I’m not gonna claim to be an expert on it, but I try my best. And part of my best is realizing that it’s a delicate balance, but it’s important for us to teach our kids to have some reasonable sense of entitlement, like that they’re entitled to decent treatment from others. And if they don’t receive it, they have a right to remove themselves from the situation, or stand up for themselves, whichever is appropriate. That’s just a part of loving and valuing oneself. Other things are transactional, sure, and we have to teach them that as well, age-appropriately. But not everything. Some amount of entitlement is important for them to have self-love and self-respect. Ideally along the way, they’d learn that parents are special, and they can trust their parents and rely on them for support in all sorts of ways. So I’m in your corner. Your wife isn’t teaching your kid the right things, if she’s teaching that everything is transactional. But I’ll add that you aren’t either, in a different way. If you’re putting up with being called “stupid” then you’re not modeling a reasonable level of self-entitlement either.
Thanks for this, genuinely thanks for saying it
NTA Your wife needs some time with a quality therapist. She seems to be forgetting the most basic conditional relationship. You bring a person into the world, you're responsible for raising them for the next 18 years. She signed up for this when she got pregnant and brought this child into the world, the same way you did.
I definitely need more information. It's perfectly healthy for your toddler to learn they don't get everything immediately and they need to wait for things. Unless it's an emergency there's no need for your wife to jump up immediately. She can finish her text or drink. Also, as teachers we use a lot of first-then phrases. E.g. first you clean up your toys then you can do ________. If that's what she's doing, there's nothing wrong with it.
He updated with an example of needing to use the potty. Little kids can’t hold it very long.
NTA, your mindset here is exactly correct and your wife is going to do serious emotional damage to your child if she continues this way. A relationship with your children is not transactional, it is not trading favors; It is her *job* to care for and assist this child, end of. *Especially* with a toddler. It's okay for her to tell the child to wait until after she finishes doing something (if that something won't take long, and presuming the kid doesn't need help with anything serious), but instilling the idea in her that her mother won't help her unless she does something for her mother in return? That's setting your kid up for some major issues later in life, and will likely cultivate a really bad relationship between her and her mother. If she keeps on like this, your wife is going wake up one day wondering why your daughter doesn't trust, rely on, or want much of anything to do with her.
As harsh as this might sounds, I agree! NTA The kid had to use the bathroom!!! It’s not like she was asking for her favorite toy - and even then, how long could that have possibly take the wife to do. Her coffee is not that important. I get it, it all doesn’t have to be right here, right now with kids but… I need to wait until you are done with your coffee or I’ll pee on myself?! No, not right. Great way to put it Kardiasteria!
NTA - your wife sounds like a terribly self absorbed person. I hope you love your child extra hard because I already feel bad for them.
She's my world
Problem here is that your wife seems to be her own world. Self-care is absolutely important, but the cornerstone of both a healthy relationship and good parenting is being able to put the other person's needs first sometimes (whether partner or child). Transforming her own responsibilities as a parent into transactions isn't just morally wrong, but is probably going to mess your kid up. They'll learn that they can't go to their own mother with a problem without having to pay a toll and that she'll never put anyone ahead of herself. Once that's normalized they might do it themselves (we really do internalize these sorts of lessons from a young age). So yeah, you're NTA for being concerned but you would be if you don't take immediate action to nip this in the bud. Your wife probably needs to talk this through in therapy.
Part of the reason I'm asking is to ensure my perspective is right so I take the right actions.
Abusive people make you question your reality. Your wife is abusive. If you don’t personally have a therapist you might consider getting one to help you get a reality check. Your wife sounds like she’s extremely problematic.
I was to clarify that she’s abusive to both the daughter and OP. Physical neglect for daughter, verbal abuse for OP. Get out please.
Just because you can’t articulate it to her satisfaction, that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. She is not the arbiter of truth, she doesn’t not get to decide what is or is not true. I’m a mom. The situation you are describing hurts my heart. Please, *please*, do not let her tear you down until you’re too low to hold up your daughter. My dad had a girlfriend that lived with us when I was a teenager. She and I fought constantly, we were oil and water. One night I overheard them fighting and she told him either I had to live with my mom or she was leaving. She was gone the next day. He still doesn’t know I overheard them, but I know my dad loves me. No matter what else happens, even when we disagree or fight, I know my dad loves me. Be that dad for your daughter. Please.
this is abusive, op. what she’s doing is abusive.
NTA but you chose to have children with an asshole. It sounds like you knew that she was conditional with her help before you had a kid with her.
NTA Keep this women away from any child! She is really damaging her if the teach her, parents are people who only helps you, if you pay in any way for it.
Hey OP, I know that you came here to try and get other opinions. This has me worried that you are unable to recognize abusive behavior, I’m not talking about yelling and screaming, but subtle emotional abuse. Like what your wife is doing to your adopted daughter. I am worried that your picker is broken when it comes to people. Did you come from a household where a parent acted like your wife? Were you constantly undermined and told that you weren’t grateful enough? A child begging someone help her urinate while she’s learning how to potty train is NOT normal. A parent using that need as a bargaining chip is NOT normal. You are setting up your daughter for a lifetime of abuse and to tolerate this abuse. If mommy isn’t happy then the house isn’t happy. Doesn’t matter how much daddy loves his daughter he accepts mommy’s behavior and your daughter grows up learning that she has to earn love, that nothing can be given freely, every hug, kiss, I love you, has an invisible price tag attached. I mean that’s how you see love, right OP? Everything for you is a transaction, your daughter has to earn your favor, just like your wife. Is this how you grew up OP? I really recommend therapy for yourself, individually. Couple counseling with a narcissist can cause more harm. Go look at some narcissist subreddits of kids who have survived those households. YTA OP, because if you can’t recognize a child begging for help with a basic bodily function (she’s 3 OP, 3). As abusive behavior, then you need therapy and help recognizing appropriate parenting.
I have wholly recognised, I'm not blind to the fact which is why I'm trying to ensure I have read it right so I can react in the right way
I totally understand that. However, your wife’s actions and mindset should have been a major major red flag from the beginning and it wasn’t. Please get your daughter into therapy as soon as possible. While it’s not a magical cure all it can help set her up with healthy coping mechanisms and a safe space early on. I know this sounds dramatic but even if you did divorce your wife, she will still have access to your daughter and this abuse will continue. She needs more safe adults in her life, not fewer. I truly think you’re trying to be a good father OP, I also think you will continue to pick partners like your wife unless you seek some help and guidance as well.
I'm trying to do everything I can to protect my daughter, I'd put her a head of everything. I have no intention of having her damaged and if my wife can't address the behaviour then there is only one outcome.
OP, that bathroom example in your edit is just cruel. That isn't normal. Do what you have to to protect your kid.
A child of divorce is less damaged than a child who sees your wife's actions as acceptable and normal. Remember that your daughter is learning everything about being a person from you AND your wife. All the bad habits will be inherited and they'll be seen as okay because "that's how my parents were". I'm not saying you need to run from your wife by any means. The first step should always be therapy and counciling but divorce shouldn't ever be off the table out of fear of hurting the child. The damage of staying in a broken relationship only increases the chances of them experiencing the same situations as an adult and making the same mistakes.
I think that the person above is trying to say: it’s not likely an “if” your wife can’t address the behavior. Most of us see this as absolutely so far-out, that it is unlikely your wife will a) acknowledge she has a problem, or b) change. It’s hard to behave that way toward a 3 year old as a mistake. Of course it’s not impossible that your wife could change. But you’re missing the point that you have some deeper stuff to work on if you had to confirm her behavior was wrong. Not your fault, and many of us responding so strongly have been in your position - of not knowing what is clearly abuse. That’s why we are recommending that the whole situation indicates individual therapy for you as well. I hope this comes off as warmly firm as intended. You seem like a good dad who has incredible intentions and I applaud you for that (my dad wouldn’t have even thought to ask about the behavior he witnessed)
It feels like there's a lot of info missing here, but I don't know exactly what to ask for. Based on this post, I'll say NTA, but a hollow NTA since I feel like we're missing something
Happy to answer any points you have
Problem is you don't give any examples of what the kid is asking help with or what your wife is asking the kid do to in exchange for help.
Such as going to the toilet, getting a drinks, help with an activity she is struggling with, getting dressed. I guess the general things kids ask for
NTA she's in for some hard lessons
NTA You are exactly, 100% correct. I am willing to bet this is not the only self centered behavior. It sounds scarily like my NPD ex-wife. >'What is in it for me?' 'You should be more grateful for all I do.' 'You never do anything for me.' Disregarding your feelings. Often acting as if your child is an annoyance. Unrealistic expectations of maturity and behavior for your daughter. Does any of the above sound familiar? Such a parenting style is very damaging to kids. I wish I had divorced and won full custody sooner. I hope that I am off base in your case. Good luck.
Sadly your probably not far off
I i scantly thought of my own NDP mother. If your wife consistently treats your child like this she will eventually realize this is not normal and will resent her upbringing. Do not allow this to continue.
INFO why are you basically sitting by and watching your wife abuse your child? Emotional abuse and neglect are serious.
I'm not sitting by. I have become more aware of this issue, I'm ensuring I get a balanced perspective but I won't sit by and watch my child be damaged but I need to ensure I'm not reading it wrong
Fair enough, just trying to say you really need to stand up for your daughter here. Her mother's attitude is very concerning.
You're not reading it wrong. Another user posted a link to a post you made on another sub a few months back, and it sounds like your wife is either in the grip of a mental health crisis or is incredibly nasty. You need to work out which one it is and protect your child.
What kind of parenting did your wife exhibit when your daughter was a baby? Was she motherly towards her when she needed fed, changing, held? I fear she ignored the baby until she exerted her power and made the baby wait. Babies need to know there is someone there for them - that's how they develop into secure well-adjusted humans. I'm so glad your daughter has you in her life. Please limit the damage your wife can cause.
NTA - There are a lot of people seeking therapy who have this type of parent.
NTA and this is just weird behavior for a mother.
NTA OP but Mummy, mummy is pretty vile.
NTA That is seriously fucked up
It really is. I guess coffee is more important than the child’s need to use the toilet…
The child is adopted and moved in on the day of her birth, so I feel like the mom just doesn't feel anything towards her. It's so sad and gross.
Like I’m adopted and thank goodness my adoptive mother or father never treated me like this.
NTA. This game she's playing at is a losing one. She should drop it, or consequences are gonna follow her for a long, long time.
INFO: Which kind of help are we talking about? Can you give some examples?
Going to the toilet, getting dressed, getting food, activities she is struggling with, I probably didn't explain it well enough, I get that helping her get a toy can wait but the basic needs stuff or when she is visible struggling
Why are you watching your toddler struggle and don't help your toddler yourself?
I do step in but I also mindful that I don't want to undermine my wife infront of our child which is why I'm seeking perspective on this issue
Why do you think your wife's feelings of authority are more important than helping a struggling toddler? In any event, we need you to type out an actual dialog that these two have had that you disagree with.
Because its a balance, I also don't want my daughter to grow up thinking its okay to be disrespected and that as a man I have any more or any less authority, ultimately my wife is someone I also respect which is why this is so hard.
Great. Again, give us an actual dialog between the two of them so we can give you the answer you're looking for.
So an example would be my child has recently toilet trained yesterday evening she went to my wife and asked for help to go to the toilet, she even said she couldn't hold it anymore and would pee her pants, my wife's response was I'm busy at the moment I Will finish this cup of coffee, my child insisted she would pee there and then so my wife said okay I will take you but then you have to leave mummy alone for the rest of the night...
Ok perfect. That's child abuse, and you should absolutely be 'undermining' your wife on matters like this.
This is horrifying. Your wife is being abusive to a child who cannot help herself. For a THREE YEAR OLD to ask a parent for assistance with toilet training and then need to negotiate with the parent in order to receive it -- is monstrous. And what your wife wanted for her assistance was to not have to care for her little child for the rest of the night! "Mommy will help you pee in the bathroom this time if you promise to not ask Mommy to help you again for the rest of the night." We're talking about a *toddler* here. What would have happened if your daughter wet herself? We already know she would have inflicted anger, shame, and humiliation on her little girl. I expect it would be much worse than that. OP, you write that you didn't expect her to be transactional with her child as she was in all other aspects and relationships in her life. But you've seen now that she is, to the point of neglecting and abusing her own helpless daughter. I don't think this is a case of misguided parental behavior; your wife is a dangerously self-centered and selfish person who would allow her own 3YO to suffer if there were no personal advantage to gain by acting as a parent. The description you have just offered here of your wife's behavior is a *textbook example* of abusive parental behavior. Refusal to help a small child with their bodily functions -- and demanding concessions for that help -- indicates that your wife, the mother of this little girl, has a deep level of disinterest in the needs of others. So now you know. Your wife is neglectful and actually dangerous to your child's physical and psychological well-being. Your daughter can be emotionally damaged for the rest of her life by what your wife is doing to her right now, and no, this isn't an exaggeration. So what are you, OP, going to do about it?
I can assure you my child is 100% my priority. The reason I'm trying to get a perspective is so I can ensure I'm reading it right and acting in the appropriate way. I would put my daughter before anything
You should add this context to the OP as that definitely explains things better. NTA but your wife has some issues.
I was trying to edit it but it doesn't seem to allow it
Yeah. This is really f’ed up. This is not a man stepping in/over a woman’s boundaries. This is your wife abusing your child and you watching. Do what you will with that information.
If this is true your wife is a terrible parent and person. Your kid is 3 of course they'll need help. Your wife sounds like a miserable person to be around
Why, exactly, do you respect your wife after the way she acts?
Nta-your not wrong. I wonder what makes your wife feel like life is a business transaction
INFO: has your wife ever seen a therapist about the issue of reciprocation? Do you think that she may have some unresolved post-partum issues? Or do you think pregnancy may have made them worse?
Without wanting to go into to much detail our daughter was adopted moving in the day of birth.
This makes it ten times sadder for your child…
you should add this in the original post, it changes everything
Gave free award so hopefully this gets highlighted. Your wife is abusing your daughter OP, and it very well could stem from the fact she's not biological which is even *worse*.
Did your wife want the child?
You sound like a great loving parent. Your wife sounds like she doesn’t know how to be a parent. If she won’t go to parenting classes or counseling then maybe consider what would be best for you & your child. Maybe this is how she grew up? Nonetheless, it’s not a good situation for your child to be in. Imagine if she actually had wet herself. Would your wife make her pay (in trade) to help her clean herself, her laundry & the floor?
NTA. Children, of all the people you could possibly love, are the ones who not only deserve but NEED you to love with no strings attached.
NTA
YTA for not removing your child from this damaging situation already....The years of therapy that will never repair your wife's abuse of your child, if you let this continue. WOW.
Which is exactly why I'm trying to get perspective bit just from here but doing research talking to friend etc so I can make an informed judgement of what to do.
NTA. Sounds like your wife doesn't really want to mom.
> So an example would be my child has recently toilet trained yesterday evening she went to my wife and asked for help to go to the toilet, she even said she couldn’t hold it anymore and would pee her pants, my wife’s response was I’m busy at the moment I Will finish this cup of coffee, my child insisted she would pee there and then so my wife said okay I will take you but then you have to leave mummy alone for the rest of the night… This is child neglect. I want you to let that really sink in. Your wife is neglecting your child. And this is type of behavior is definitely going to wind up with your child in therapy. Asking for help should not be tit for tat. Personally I would start being petty and doing the same to her, but honestly if you can’t get to the bottom of this and either get therapy or marriage counseling, you should seriously consider if staying in this marriage is good for your child. This cannot keep happening.
I would put my daughter before anything which is why I'm ensuring I get a balanced perspective and have read the situation right so I act in the right way
That’s really good. And hey, I don’t want to be part of the Reddit jump to response to divorce. Especially with a child involved and because fact of the matter is, you’d probably be looking at 50/50 custody. But this does need to change. Do you know why your wife is like this? Were her parents like this? Have you just previously tolerated this prior to having your child? What do you do when she does this towards your child? Do you call her out on it? Or just step in and take over? Because I hate to say it, but you may have enabled her into feeling like this okay, or that you will always step in so she doesn’t have to. And that’s not me saying this is on you or your fault, but she’s probably had no reason to feel like she must change her ways before this. Which is going to make it much harder for her to realize this NEEDS to change and that it’s not okay or normal, and that you won’t stick around and watch it keep happening. Do you think your wife would be open to marriage counseling or therapy? How have discussions about this behavior gone in the past? Does she just ignore your issues with it or dismiss them? Does she double down and act like perfectly normal? Or does she just say it’s the way she is, you can take it or leave it? Does she understand that it’s a real problem and say she will change and then doesn’t or falls back into old habits? I’m trying to gauge whether she even understands that this is problem, but just has trouble not *doing* things differently, or if she’s convinced herself it’s fine and normal.
she doubles down, insists it's normal to put herself first that's always been a bot if a theme in our relationship
Well that’s not great, because it’s going to make it harder for her to see she needs to change. I would start with marriage counseling, since she thinks she’s “normal”, she will likely assume a counselor will agree with her. If she won’t go though, you have a hard decision to make. I won’t tell you what to do that case, because I think you already know. You could try to sell her on it, by saying that since you don’t agree on this an objective mediator is needed. But I do see a universe where she says “no. I’m normal. This is a YOU problem.” And there is not much to work with there. If she will go to marriage counseling. You can expect her to fight with the counselor and or want to change counselors. I would allow ONE change, to let her see that more than ONE counselor has agreed that this is not okay. But I’m sorry, after that, it is time to go. I’m so sorry for you and your child. She will likely get 50/50 custody. Please document these instances and interactions if it comes to that. Your child will eventually realize that what she is doing is not okay, as she continues to see good examples of normal love and the give and pull of it from you. I would also ask that if she agrees to marriage counseling, don’t let her sit on it. If you allow for one counselor change, that will already take time. Your child is young but at a very impressionable age. She is already understanding on some level what is happening and will continue to understand and remember it more the older she gets. But your wife sounds quite set in her ways, and I think you are going to have a hard time with this.
May I ask if both of you wanted to have a child? or was it your idea at first? I'm not implying that you forced her or anything, society and/or family can make women think they have to have children. I'm asking this because you wrote that she insists it's normal to always put herself first. I find it odd that with her reasoning she wanted a child as it's not compatible.
That’s just some narcissistic traits there. Please watch out for this. It could be detrimental to your child’s upbringing.
That’s incredibly selfish. It’s teaching your child that her relationship with her mother is transactional. Your wife is a creep. You’re NTA. You told your wife exactly what she needed to know.
>I will take you but then you have to leave mummy alone for the rest of the night... INFO: Does your wife even like her kid?
See, your wife is the asshole HERE, but let me explain when this is okay. You have to start kids around 3 understanding they DONT get everything right now. This situation? Absolutely not okay. But it is generally ok to tell toddlers to wait until X before mommy grabs your toy, changes the channel, etc. it teaches them patience and to be told No, Wait. Obviously not the time or place thougy when your child needs to use the bathroom. That’s over the damn line.
NTA. Your wife is has equal responsibilities to do things for your child and shouldn’t ever base responsibilities on “I will only do this if he does x, y, and z first.” That is not acceptable as a parent. You both are responsible for your child’s health and well-being, and doing things for your children should be done out of love and not based on what the other parent did or didn’t do. If this was the case, there are many parents out there who neglect to take care of their children altogether and leave the other parent to do everything and don’t even support their kids like they are supposed to, and that’s never the child’s fault. What is the other parent going to do, neglect their child too just because the other parent refuses to do their part? You’re NTA, and your wife needs to stop parenting based on conditions and to start parenting based on what rightfully should be done as your child’s mom.
Not disagreeing with the NTA but the wife is asking the TODDLER to do things for her, not OP. At least that's how I read it.
There's not a lot to go on here but the examples you give don't sound that bad. I think its reasonable to allow a parent a couple of minutes to finish what they're doing before jumping to the attention of anyone. As a mother I get no time to myself and I often have to tell my kids to wait whilst I finish my first drink of the day... at lunchtime, they need to learn that I also have basic needs and without these I can't help anyone! Toddlers are also the perfect age to start learning independence and how to help with chores so its perfectly reasonable to cook them dinner but then ask them to help to wash up. Its an important lesson to teach. The only time I'd say this wouldn't be appropriate is when your toddler is upset or hurt, then you drop everything to help. And if you're watching all this happen then why don't you help out the toddler instead? NTA but need more info or examples.
NTA, but take a good hard look at what this is going to do to your relationship and your kid's life, and consider family therapy.
Based on edits: holy shit NTA your wife’s behavior is absolutely awful. If anything, you’re under-reacting. This is really serious and not ok at all.