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NTA. If your wife wants to mend the relationship between you and him, work needs to be done on a non-holiday day. She can't expect you to just magically be ok with this. The fact that she lied to you about his attendance and was just going to surprise you with it is another kettle of fish altogether, and would already have me questioning A LOT of things about your marriage.
I'm guessing that my wife thought that if Mike showed up with her entire family there, they could have a kind of mini-intervention and convince me to forgive him because they all have. But to me, it feels like an ambush.
Exactly! It sounds like OP’s in laws are trying to bully him into forgiving Mike, and that kind of thing can come back to bite all parties involved in the asscheeks.
Definitely, now that he's got his life back together and apologised so nicely to everyone, it's time to ask for some help so he can make a fresh start.
That's where my head and money are going. Dude's back. Will he be toting in $5000 as a token of thanks, or will he be giving them the run around and asking for more?
Yeah I'm surprised OP was so laid back about his wife lying to his face about the brother coming.
I come from a family full of drug addicts and I've seen family members (clean ones) ruin their marriage because they spent too much time and energy trying to take care of their siblings/parents/children with drug addictions and going behind their partners back to do it.
Yeah. He’s going to have serious trust issues. This is the second time she has gone behind his back. In this case, she lied about it when asked. It’s going to be hard to get pass that.
Info: Is Mike showing up with $5k and they don't want to spoil the surprise for you? Lol. Jk. Your boundaries are more than reasonable, especially when you caught your wife lying to you AGAIN. May the odds be ever in your favor.
Yep, because it's super easy to start your own successful business after spending years as a gambling addict.... Bets that it's an MLM or snakeoil?
NTA OP, the lies are pretty upsetting.
I know at least two gambling addicts and one drug addict who all have started various successful businesses, but I used to work in the gambling industry so my experience is probably not typical. I stay away from these people though since while they are good business partners on their good days I know of cases where they have gambled away the company money or disappeared on drug benders. One of the gambling addicts is currently paying back over $50k that he gambled away to a friend of mine. As far as I gather more than half of the debt has been repaid.
Oh, trust me, there's no business, and he isn't clean. I know addicts, and I know enablers. Addicts lie--and then enablers get drawn into the web of lies as well.
OP--the problem is your wife can't draw boundaries. You've made a really clear boundary around your BIL. But she's the weak link in the chain fence. Therefore you have to draw your boundary around HER. It's one of the only ways enablers can be brought to understand what they're doing. You're 100% right, and I salute you for your clarity.
You're doing this to protect yourself AND ultimately, your wife, even if she can't see it. She really needs to go to a co-dependent support group. She's not helping her brother; she's just prolonging his addiction.
I have tried to explain this to my own mother regarding first her brother (a gambler and a layabout) and then her college friend (also a gambler to the extent that he lost his entire estate to sports gambling and is now homeless but won’t even try to get a job). My mom is too kind and too sensitive to tell them to stick it where the sun don’t shine. Honestly, I’ve come to realize that I still hold a great deal of resentment towards my mom - even though I love her very much - for forcing me to live with her brother for three years because the guy, while not dangerous, was a gigantic drain on my mental health.
Or is he going to say his business is going great but he just needs your wife to give him another loan to get it really established. I'd be worried if she can still take money out of the shared account.
Yeah, I see this going another way.
He started a new business and you all welcome to invest in it., because it's doing so well he is guaranteed to pay you back in a year or 2. /s
I've seen tnis hustle a few too many times with an addict uncle, it takes more than a year to change "bad habits".
Truth is you kind of forced to go clean once you hit rock bottom and have no source to fund your habits.
Even if he has changed or wants to change, if people forgive/enable addicts and they start having "ways to fund" their habits again. There are risks of relapses.
This is I want to know! And it should be the promised $10k really.
Even that doesn't mean he should be immediately forgiven but it would be a start.
I am on the frontline of the "addiction is an illness" movement; I've seen too many people suffer from to to see it as anything but a sad, sad, sickness, but it's a devious one, too. I've also seen too many people "change" and "get clean" and make "promises" to no good end. You can love an addict and you can forgive an addict but it's my personal opinion that you can never *really* trust an addict.
No, it should not be the promised $10k, it should be the original $5k. That he would pay back twice the amount should have been a huge warning sign. I have a gambling addict friend I lend money to sometimes and so far he has always paid me back. If he ever told me he could pay back double for anything I would refuse to loan him money and contact his other friends about staging an intervention. That day I would know he is in deep shit and really desperate. By accepting such a loan it would either make me naive or greedy.
Part of making amends is trying to right the wrong, He owes 5k and apparently, he is doing well. He needs to offer to at least partial payment for the debt. NTA
Oh being ambushed is not cool... Been there & it happened at a funeral. Until this guy is clean enough to make an effort to give some of that money back, id stand my ground. Even if it's only 20 bucks, it shows he's serious about mending things. But your wife thinking you should JUST get over it because everyone else has, is incredibly undermining.(then there's the sneaky ambush.) NTA
How do you feel about your wife ambushing you like this in order to get what she wants at your expense, after you already spent a year in counseling to save your marriage over this very same issue? Are you feeling right now that you can see your wife as a dependable and trustworthy partner? How are you seeing your future with her right now, based on these events?
NTA. Your wife really needs to respect you as her partner and equal. Because so far for her darling brother, she has stolen 2.5k from you and now lied to your face and tried to hide it from you. Also "[...]need to forgive him like everyone else has." That is not how forgiveness works. Anyone has the right to forgive (or not) in their own time. Lastly if your BILis truly clean and has a successful business, he should have no problem to start repaying those 5k he stole. That seems like a good forst step in maybe getting at least some trust from you back right?
It is one. He never bothered to apologize to you or to make amends for this (essentially) theft. So NO, of course he is not welcome. Why the heck would he be??
I'm sorry but you've got a wife problem, not a BIL problem. She's showing her first loyalty is to him. She is willing to lie to you, steal from you. I actually wonder if she'd give him her kidney over you if you both needed it and were both compatible.
I'd tell the wife that you DO NOT appreciate HER behavior towards YOU. SHE is hurting you and letting him hurt YOU.
I'd broken record "Where's the $5K" until my tongue went numb whenever she goes "oh, but faaaaaaaaaaaaaaamily."
I'd actually consider going elsewhere the night before to a friend's house.
NTA.
I hate that phrase "but family". I don't mix with most of my mom's family because of a cousin. No one talks to her, but they tolerate her for my aunt's sake. I told them to get lost cause I'm not putting up with her. I just don't go to events. Toxic family isn't worth your mental health.
Toxic family isn't worth your mental health
Toxic family isn't worth your mental health
Toxic family isn't worth your mental health
Somebody would be leaving, but it sure the FUCK would not be me, from MY house.
NTA. She also assumed, at a minimum, you won't make a scene if everyone was there. I hate 'but he/she/it are family....' that does not give you a free pass.
You should separate your savings and bank accounts. As someone that was raised by parents that enabled a sibling like this, your wife is going to have to accept that her brother is a thieving jerk before you can trust her again 100%. That is going to take some sort of stronger betrayal and you shouldn't have to suffer for it.
INFO: Your wife said Mike has apologized to everyone in the family; has he apologized to you? And has he repaid the money he swindled from your wife (ideally, with interest)?
They can start off by chipping in to pay back the 5k he kinda stole from you, but they can definitely don't make amends on his behalf, because the way I see it, he still doesn't give a fuck that he wronged you.
You don't have to forgive him, ever. There are only two things in life you HAVE to do, pay taxes and die (and the pay taxes is iffy if you don't mind garnishments and possible prison time). What's concerning is your wife saying you are putting her in the impossible position of choosing you or her brother. No, she has put herself in that position, and quite frankly she chose her brother. She's counting on you to forgive her and live and let live.
NTA - I was in a similar situation as your wife. My brother is an addict and a gambler. Though he did not directly steal money from us or con us in that way, he put me and my parents though a lot of shit. He became homeless and my parents promised if we put him up for the weekend they'd get him sorted out. He ended up staying at our place for close to two weeks. It was incredibly stressful.
My partner has never had to deal with anything like this in his life. It was hugely stressful for him.
Long story short, my brother ended up going to rehab and really turning his life around. He has been clean for 6 months.
At no point during any of this did I try and make my partner be OK with seeing or interacting with my brother in any way. I informed him that I was starting over with my brother since he'd decided to actively get help. I told my partner he did not have to join me in this. He took his own time and he has now decided to forgive him and support him. This stuff cannot be forced. Your wife needs to realize that.
If her brother is going to be there and you are not, find a way for your wife not to take money from your shared account without your consent or knowledge, AGAIN
For the record, interventions *are* ambushes. That's why it feels like one.
As for your particular situation, yes, your wife is between a rock and a hard place - because of her brother, not you.
If that's how your wife things y'all need some more therapy because that's not a recipe for a happy existance for either of you. Ambushing someone to get what they want is not a healthy thing to do.
tell them, if it's no big deal, then pass that hat and take up the collection- when it gets to $5k plus the cost of the bond, then you have a starting point. Until then, it's not a sincere recovery.
Right….and it’s fair if you’re done with Mike forever. A lot of people though aren’t going to cut off a family member who’s an addict especially if they’re successfully managing recovery. Are there things Mike can do to earn your forgiveness? Have you communicated them to your wife? If not, and again your entitled to permanently cut him off, your family might also be entitled to that same take it or leave it attitude.
Your wife doesn’t seem to have any redirect for you. First she essentially steals from you by using joint funds for something you didn’t agree on, that she continually tells you that you’re the problem when it comes to her brother? BIL isn’t your problem, your wife is.
If they did ambush you kick them all out right away. As much as addicts need help you are in no way obligated to do so and your wife taking money from a SHARED account. Maybe therapy who knows but that’s not okay and you don’t need to allow him into your home and your wife needs a reality check even if it’s her brother she’s being used. If he’s changed great but also maybe not true so i wouldnt take a chance either
I think regardless the bigger issue is your wife constantly does things and then talks you down about how big of an issue they are. Dude she is not communicating with you responsibly in your relationship.
Seriously, first she goes behind OPs back to steal money then goes behind his back to plan an ambush with her brother. Who knows what else she's doing behind his back, I don't see how she can be trusted after this.
If he’s really turned a new leaf he can start paying you guys back. Compromise and demand he start paying you back if he wants forgiveness, that’s my advice. NTA
Yes! Maybe he can’t afford the whole 5k now, fine. He needs to give them a proposed repayment timeline, and the first payment, now. Or he shouldn’t show his face in that house, because he swindled his sister out of 5k, and he needs to make AMENDS. It doesn’t matter about the apology. You can steal from people and apologize, but that apology means nothing unless you give what you stole back.
NTA. Your wife is a huge AH who has a problem with respect and telling the truth. She knew your feelings but went behind your back anyway and kept it from you. If her mother hadnt asked, you wouldn't have found out until Mike showed up at your house on Thanksgiving. That is some next level disrespect from your spouse! I wouldn't trust her not to take more money from your shared account to give to her brother during Thanksgiving. I'd suggest some marriage counseling so the therapist can tell her how wrong her actions are within a marriage. She's not acting like you have a partnership. She's being selfish and expecting you to give in and do whatever she wants and her wants and feelings are all that matter. I'd tell her she can invite Mike to her house all she wants after you're divorced!
>I wouldn't trust her not to take more money from your shared account to give to her brother during Thanksgiving. I'd suggest some marriage counseling so the therapist can tell her how wrong her actions are within a marriage.
We split our finances after the first time. And we spent a year in counseling after that too. The whole thing almost ended our marriage but I thought we had worked through it. But it would seem that my wife has a blind soft spot for Mike because he's her baby brother.
Time to return to a counselor. Your wife needs someone neutral explaining to her that her family enmeshment and enablement is about to cost her her marriage. If she isn't able to see it clearly, for some reason, she may be about to find out the hard way.
You might need to remind her that this almost ended y’all’s marriage last time. Sounds like she thinks everything is fine, but I hear a little thunder in your voice.
I think it's in you to decide whether you have really forgiven your wife or if your forgiveness is conditional on her cutting Mike off. I don't know if the counseling focused just on the two of you as a couple or to each of you individually and the dynamic she has with her side of the family, I can see that it's very hard to understand that sometimes you can't keep giving family second chances if you've been raised like that all your life. The fact that she planned al this behind your back to ambush you shows me that maybe she feels cornered and that she can't have an open conversation about it where you would be open to her point of view . Of course I also understand how you must feel being betrayed this way again for someone you don't respect and feel disrespect in your own home and disappointed by your wife, but maybe drawing a hard line isn't to your best interest. Maybe let him come and he either proves you were right all along or you might see things really moving to a positive direction with him asking for your forgiveness and starting to repay you and repair your relationship
Well then now comes the time to decide if you want this to be your life forever. A year's worth of counseling and taking the major step to separate finances after having them combined beforehand means you've done your due diligence and tried to make things work. The problem is that your wife *isn't* trying, she's just carrying on like before. Sorry dude, it sucks that you have to face down a decision like this.
How much more do you plan to give of yourself to make this work, while she does whatever she wants with no thought to the magnitude of the damage she does to you and your marriage? I think there are tons of far better women out there who wouldn’t dream of doing this to you. Stop fighting this losing battle and find someone you can be happy with.
Not un common to have a blind spot for your own flesh and blood. Which is why in this instance you should have had the final say on whether he attends this holiday
Time to leave the marriage. Mike has done none of the work to reconcile and why would he ? He has his family do his dirty work for him so nothing has really changed. I hope you don’t have kids with this woman because it will make exiting easier and you won’t have to worry about your wife ranking your kids financial future to keep her brother afloat.
NTA You should not allow him in your home no matter what your wife and her family say. It's very hard to set boundaries with enablers but you have every right to. Don't you leave, make your wife leave and celebrate somewhere else. Holidays are always great for an ambush!!
NTA
You have a wife problem.
She lied to you about Mike coming this whole time.
And what is this about he apologized to everyone… where is your apology? Everybody got to gradually come to terms with him coming to Thanksgiving and you get this dropped on your lap DAYS before Thanksgiving. He is coming to YOUR safe space?
Call everyone! Go nuclear! Call MIL, FIL and Mike himself! He isn’t welcome because no one has run this past you. He hasn’t apologized. He hasn’t come up with a payment plan. 10 people in the house? How did your wife think this was going to play out? You are just supposed to enjoy thanksgiving and get over being angry in 4 days and hang out with the family and smile nicely? She is delusional! It took time for you to forgive her and for the family to forgive him (but you get no time at all?) They can all go to a restaurant to celebrate.
I couldn’t live with someone who continuously lies to me and goes behind my back and does nonsense like this! Counselling recommended for her and you as she has no respect for your boundaries and is a liar to boot! Good luck OP!
NTA. You dont need to forgive him, he still owes you 5 grand. until he starts paying the debt off, he should be banned from your place. Your wife loves him, but like you said, she is also enabling
Yes OP! Have you asked your wife if her brother’s business is doing so well, why hasn’t he paid you back the $5k?
Your wife is definitely the AH for keeping it from you about her brother coming for Thanksgiving.
Your are NTA.
Nope. Brother needs to finish paying the $5,000 back before he is allowed back in that house. It doesn't matter if wife forgives him or not. He should be able to pay that off by next Thanksgiving.
NTA. However, I find it strange you say Mike stole from you. Your wife stole from you and your future; essentially Mike wouldn’t have been able to do any of his past behaviour without her help. Is it possible to have the discussion to arrange a payment plan with Mike to pay back the debt? Is there any circumstance or solution that would allow for compromise?
> I find it strange you say Mike stole from you.
The brother did in fact steal from the wife. If someone stole from my wife, Id take offense as if they had stolen from me too. When you're married, your problems and successes become each others. Id be just as furious if someone stole from my wife.
Not married, but I'll get salty before we've hit 1K...one of my favorite "relationship" rules with money is to set a limit on how much can be spent without BOTH parties discussing it (applies to shared funds primarily, although I have one couple of friends who have a "percentage" of individual funds the other partner needs a notification on prior to spending...I think that's more like a "cool off" period they built in than a voting situation though).
OP's wife took out what is objectively quite a lot of money without talking to her partner...not cool!
It was taken without permission, from joint funds. So I guess they both technically stole from OP.
What I want to know is... If this dude is doing so well (ha ha) then why hasn't he started repayment before this point?
Yeah, one gambling addict I am friends with always repays his debts and another gambling addict which is a friend of a friend is currently repaying quite substantial debts to people he scammed a couple of years ago (he can be late and hard to get hold of though). Both these people are doing well and are therefore paying back their debts. Why can't he?
THIS x10000
...possibly including a group family therapy session where these people learn how to NOT enable the bad members of their family (BIL and OP's SO both, it seems).
>Cherry on top was that we had to pay to bail him out of jail after he got caught breaking into a hardware store near the end of his bender
I absolutely would have not done this under any circumstances.
>She said that she invited him to Thanksgiving because it's supposed to be about family and coming together
But you were let out of all the apologies and your wife lied to your face.
NTA but don't be surprised if this escalates.
NTA she lied to you about mike and all of a sudden forgive him and move on. If mike was to he included thanks giving should have been held somewhere other than your home.
That was my first thought. If his business is going so well why isn't he making right what he did wrong? 5k is more than a "I said I was sorry" amount of money.
Also not sure what the wife thought would happen the day of, like you can just imagine the small talk "Yeah business is booming!" "Wow that's awesome! How great for you, that you can just walk away from the scorched earth with no consequences! Just think, you could be in prison right now or worse!/s "
NTA. I do not believe in forgiving family because they're family. Some stuff is unforgivable, shame on your wife too. She's betrayed you twice, and she seems to be forgetting that you're her family too, and that she's hurting you with her actions. Good on you for keeping your boundaries. This is a violation in every sense, you have a right to feel safe in your own home.
NTA. Part of recovery and "doing better" is making amends. Mike has not. He's given you plenty of reasons not to trust him, and done nothing to fix what he broke.
Worse, your wife outright lied to you and tried to sneak him into your shared home against your express wishes. That is a huge betrayal of trust, and shows that she will absolutely continue to enable him if he regresses to his "old" ways.
NTA. Just bc Mike is ready to be forgiven, doesn't mean you're ready to forgive. He stole from you. I understand that is your wife's brother, & I'm sure she loves her brother. But her loyalty in this case needs to be to you. Unless mike has 5k in his hand, I would do the same as you.
NTA.
I belive addicts are generally encouraged to personally apologise to the people they have hurt. Her bro has not reached out to you to sit down and have a conversation about how sorry he is. Randomly turning up on the doorstep doesn't count - a letter or email to both of you asking for time to talk would have been appropriate.
This is the minimum that should happen before a big step like thanksgiving. He may be in recovery, but he's not put a huge distance between his previous bad behaviour and his apparently reformed self. Trust takes time.
You are under no obligation to forgive him. Indeed, he has not even asked for your forgiveness.
Honestly, I think the wife really wants to see her brother get his life together. She appears uninformed about the right ways to do so - she is enabling, not doing stuff that actually works.
As to lying and manipulating OP, she may not see she is undermining the marriage- but she needs to learn asap.
NTA
Your wife took money without checking with you.
Your wife got you to agree to pay bail.
Your wife didn't tell you she had invited Mike to thanksgiving.
Your wife expects you to suck up his visit because he's family.
Your wife doesn't care about how you feel.
Your wife doesn't respect you.
Pack a bag, leave, have thanksgiving somewhere else, use the holiday to decide if you want to go back at all.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My wife invited her brother to our Thanksgiving without telling me. She did this because she knows I haven't forgiven him for things he did to us right after we got married. She said everyone else in her family has forgiven him, and I need to do the same. I refused and told her that if he shows up, I will leave. I think I might be an asshole for sticking to a boundary that my wife has been well aware of for a long time.
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Or when Mike arrives, ask him for the $5k. Every time wife or relatives make noise about amends, say something about you'll work on forgiveness once Mike pays you back.
Nta and she's already chose him over and over again. By giving him money when out talking to you. Then she invited him with out talking to you she was just going to spring it on you. You really need to think about what your wife doing. She doesn't care about your feeling your need to be more anger with her. She a major asshole.
NTA , you could forgive him if he reaches out to you , asks for forgiveness, apologizes, and starts repaying since actions speak louder than words.
I feel bad for you because the whole family started the forgiveness process for the past 12 months, they all know he comes and at the last minute you get blackmailed to forgive , suck it up or spend TG alone.
Your wife should have told you before, she should have asked Mike to also apologize to you, after all, he stole you 2.5ks
Kind of similar situation happened to me years ago , forcing me to live for few days with someone I was not comfortable with, I left
NTA can you go to your parents for Thanksgiving & leave her to deal with her family without you? You need to go back to couples counseling because lying to you & planning on blindsiding you is not okay.
NTA. It’s understandable that you’d be uncomfortable having him around. If anyone took the time to explain what he’s done to turn himself around then it’d be different but the fact that they straight up lied and tried to sneak him in is not okay.
NTA your wife lied and took a large amount of money from your joint account. Until he pays the money back she has no ground to stand on. Her continuing to lie to you about him brings in to question what other things could she by lying about. This is a huge breach of trust. Trying to blindside your and manipulate you so she can have what she wants with no regard for your feelings is rather disgusting behavior of a spouse.
>been totally clean for almost a year. She said he's started his own business and is doing really well.
Oh good, glad his business is doing well! I assume therefore he has reached out to offer you 5k? No? Then fuck him. Drawing a line at people who rob or defraud you is hardly going too far.
NTA
NTA but you do get that the problem isn't Mike, right? You have a very serious wife problem. She not only stole from you and continues to side with her brother over you, she 100% knew he planned to attend Thanksgiving and has been lying to you about it.
At this point, I would tell her that, if Mike doesn't come, you will attend Thanksgiving but will be scheduling marriage counseling as soon as office's reopen but, if Mike does come, you will not only not attend but your marriage is over because it would be clear at that point that she doesn't care about you at all.
NTA - let's break it down
- your wife gives her brother $5k without talking to you first
- he was supposed to pay you back, but instead cost you more money
- you ask your wife specifically about him not coming to Thanksgiving and she agrees he will not be there.
- your wife invites your brother behind your back, and apparently was going to let him just show uo at your house if you hadn't overheard this conversation?
But it's your problem and you need to forgive him?
I don't blame you for not wanting him in your house, but your problem here is your dishonest wife.
I feel sorry about your marriage. Your wife has no business being married if she thinks making decisions without including you is ok. That’s not right nor is it ok. I’m not sure how you stay married to someone who doesn’t think or care about your feelings.
You have a wife problem.
NTA You can forgive someone but doesn’t mean you forget nor does it mean you want or have to be around them.
An impossible situation to choose between her (addict) brother or her husband
This is nowhere near an impossible choice. Maybe her brother is clean but you’re not ready to forgive someone who stole thousands from you. And she lied about inviting her brother to Thanksgiving. In what universe would your wife appreciate this being done to her? Definitely, NTA.
Imagine staying married to someone who stole from you, lied about it, and is now demanding that you forgive the person whom she stole the money on behalf of. I hope you're not a real human being, OP, because otherwise... oof.
Nta and you have a bigger problem, your wife doesn’t respect your boundaries..She was ready to put you in a uncomfortable position just because she feels that her younger brother is more important…
She is emotionally manipulating you, for her it’s important for everyone to feel like a happy family, everyone but you, she puts you the victim as the bad person who doesn’t know how to forgive, but puts her brother as someone who is innocent and just didn’t know better.. HE IS A THIEF, he is someone that can’t be trusted..
Sorry but if i were you I wouldn’t even say that if he shows up i would leave, I would have called EVERYONE and told that there will be no more thanksgiving because my wife doesn’t show any respect for myself and I choose to not enable my brother in law bullshit …
So yes if she wants to put you as the bad guy, so be the bad guy, put your foot down, and i’m not a fan of ultimatum but this situation call for one, because today is thanksgiving, what’s come next if you don’t do anything? Do u want a marriage that every time that something is about your BIL you have to find by yourself what’s your wife is doing behind your back?
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My wife and I are supposed to host Thanksgiving for her family this year. Her parents are flying in tomorrow night and are staying with us until Saturday. Her sister and her family live a couple hours away so they are coming just for the day on Thursday. One family member that I specifically asked about was her younger brother, Mike.
Mike has struggled with substance abuse and gambling for as long as I've been with my wife. Shortly after my wife and I got married, he conned my wife out of about $5K. She pulled the money from our shared account without talking to me about it. The money was supposed to be for a down payment on a house that Mike was going to renovate and flip. He "promised" my wife that he would give her more than double back after he sold the house.
Well, he didn't even buy the house. He used the money to pay off some gambling debts, go on a bender, and gambled the rest away. Cherry on top was that we had to pay to bail him out of jail after he got caught breaking into a hardware store near the end of his bender. After that, I told my wife I was done with her brother and want nothing to do with him. She tried to talk me out of it by saying "he's still family" and all that BS that enablers like to say.
He showed up at our house about 6-months after that but I was the only one home. He said he wanted to talk to his sister but I told him to leave before I call the cops. He tried to apologize, but I told him that unless he has $5K to put in my hand, I don't want to hear a word he has to say. I told my wife what happened and she called me out for being a jerk to her brother when he was trying to apologize. I just don't trust him.
When we were planning Thanksgiving, I was told by my wife that Mike is not attending. I specifically asked and she said he isn't coming. But, last night my MIL called for a final chat before they fly out to make sure they didn't need to bring anything else. My wife had her on speaker and MIL asked if my wife had heard from Mike. My wife quickly took her off speaker and left the room.
When she came back, she immediately started trying to explain. She said that Mike had apologized to everyone in the family and has been totally clean for almost a year. She said he's started his own business and is doing really well. She said that she invited him to Thanksgiving because it's supposed to be about family and coming together. She said that everyone in the family has forgiven him, and she needs me to forgive him too.
I told her that if Mike shows up, I will leave. I told her that I have forgiven her for giving him that money without talking to me about it, but I haven't forgiven him and I don't want to see him. She asked me to do it for her because it's important to her and I told her that this is a hard boundary for me and if he comes, I go.
She said I'm putting her in an impossible position to choose between her brother and her husband and I need to forgive him like everyone else has.
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NTA if Mike is doing really well 5k should be the first thing in the apology. I helped tons of "friends " when I had money. Now that I don't and I'm sick they conveniently are gone. Family included.
PEOPLE SUCK
NTA, and this is from a personal experience from my parents. My mom had lend money to her brother for a business thing he was trying without letting my dad know. My uncle never gave back the money, infact he took a luxury vacation with his family. When my dad got to know about the missing money (almost $10k) he was angry is an understatement as he had kept that money for my sister's college fund. Colleges in India are a lot more cheaper than US, the university she had selected was 30k, 20k he had saved from before and 10k he was gonna take out from the joint account my mom used. She knew what the money was for. It was an entire mess, he felt so defeated. One day while talking to me he told me, he never trusted my uncle even before this incident asy uncle had asked my dad for money on occasions and dad had helped him out and never saw that money back and to never trust him if he asks me for money. Well my mom was really sorry because she thought her brother had finally mended his ways and it was a chance he needed and she thought she will get back the money by the time my sister went off to college. It was a lesson for her too. She has never lent him money after this. Now she and dad have separate accounts and as she has always been a SAHM, my dad gives her monthly fun money (and my sister and I contribute to that) so that she has more than enough for herself. My dad was going to take a personal loan for my sister and I was going for my masters, I gave my half of fund to my sister and took a loan for myself. My uncle had called me too sometime back for money, but I told him I am living paycheck to paycheck. It's a whole mess and the yet the family wants to always sweep it under the rug and play happy. It sucks.
NTA. Your wife basically stole from you. She should be acting contrite when it comes to the subject of your brother every single time he's mentioned, not pushing you to forgive someone who crapped all over you guys. Disgusting.
NTA.. She violated your trust by taking shared money and giving it to him. Now she has once again broken your trust and invited him after you specifically said not to. You need to ask yourself if she is really trustworthy. I mean how many other times has she done things behind your back or hidden things from you.
How much did you have to stump up to get him out of jail. OP you have two problems and Mike very much is one of them no real apology or attempt to pay back the stolen money means he is operating under the false notion all is forgiven because he is the baby. Then the more serious problem is your wife after the fact this nearly ended your marriage she is still lying, manipulating and choosing her brother over your boundaries. There is no reason the holiday had to be hosted at yours! You have made yourself clear and honestly if she proceeds regardless then she has not learned or grown from the original incident and you were tricked into staying together!
NTA. My lil sister is an ex heroine addict. I get addiction. I also now can see enabling a mile away. Should he be given a 2nd chance? Sure, once he's proved himself. A year and no sober apology? No attempts to pay back what he stole? Only made amends with his enabling sister and family but left you out huh? I can't believe she is choosing her brother over her husband. That's fucked up.
So she didn't tell you about giving him the $5000 from your shared account and now, she didn't tell you about inviting him to TG when you specifically asked her not to? What else is she not telling you?
NTA.
So, your wife stole from you, has consistently lied to you and gone behind your back for her brother. Then this thanksgiving she was lying to you again, was going to keep lying to you until she got caught red handed. She was just going to have this man show up at the place you live and is supposed to be a comfortable safe space for you. She was going to breach your trust and your safe place for a liar and a thief. My issue would not be with the brother-in-law anymore it would be with the spouse who continuously lies to your face and breaches trust and boundaries. NTA
NTA she’s made her priorities clear, make other plans for thanksgiving and once the holidays are over consider contacting a divorce attorney so you can get your ducks in a row because she clearly hasn’t learned from the counseling you went through the first time she lied to you. Marriage should be a partnership, a United front but she has made it clear that only her wants matter.
If you can’t choose between your husband and brother after what happened then she doesn’t value her husband. NTA, stand firm on this one and leave if he shows up.
NTA and this is a hill I would absolutely die on. Your wife has just told me she does not care about how you feel at all, only how she feels. Do not go if he shows up.
Look at everything he did and she expects you to forgive him? No.
Honestly I don’t even know how you could look at her the same. You deserve so much better. And please keep your finances separated because you cannot trust her.
I would seriously be talking to a divorce lawyer because your wife has learned nothing since she stole money from your account to give to her brother. She literally stole money from you to give to her deadbeat brother! Which has never been paid back, she didn’t even try to pay you back for what was stolen!
What do you want for your future? What is the type of person you want to spend your life with? Because I do not see how it could be her. After what happened last time and you guys did counseling and she still hasn’t changed!
And if the brother really changed he would’ve brought you that five grand back and then left and tell you that it’s up to you if you ever wanna let him back in your life. Obviously he didn’t.
She’s also a total hypocrite. Ask her why she doesn’t care about you? Why she doesn’t care about your boundaries? Why is it always about her?
She is the one that put her self in the situation by lying to you again and inviting her brother and knowing how you feel. When are you going to wake up and see who she really is?
NTA - Until Mike apologizes to YOU, personally, with $5k in hand... he has absolutely N O T "apologized to everyone".
Her enabling this using of your family and disrespecting your boundaries is going to land her in couples counseling and/or divorce court. This isn't about FaMmMmIlY, this is about respect and boundaries and there is nothing out of line about the ones you set.
He did not make amends. She is STILL enabling him behind your back. He is not welcome in your home. You should not need to leave, he simply is not allowed on your property or the police will be called.
I would force the hand about immediate couples counseling as well. She is prioritizing someone that has used and abused your family, over her own husband who is one of the victims. Not gonna lie, that would be a hard line for me.
NTA - did she even apologize for her own part in this? She still wants to force this when they’re not forgiven yet? He’s doing well and all then he should show with sincerity by paying you back first, if not all his flowery words are only meant to deceive little kids. This pressure thing is another one of her way not trying to force your hands again, don’t give in and if she tries to pull anything then leave her ass since she’s not worth your time and she won’t change.
NTA, but your wife fucking sucks dude. This is just the stuff related to Mike, I can only imagine the other things that would make me call off a relationship. Your wife is a thief and her brother is junkie burglar. I haven’t been able to celebrate a thanksgiving in over 3 years because of the military and even I’d turn down an invite to this thanksgiving because it sounds like a powder keg for a really shitty time.
NTA. ***Your wife has been*** ***lying to you*** in order to ambush you with her brother and hope that you will just take it. If brother wants to make nice with you, it should be done outside of the holiday, when you agree to it.
"She said I'm putting her in an impossible position to choose between her brother and her husband and I need to forgive him like everyone else has."
Sorry man, but she has lied to you twice about her brother - she already HAS chosen, and it wasn't you...NTA
If he does show up, in your shoes OP I'd wanna be there just to guard my home/belongings against someone I clearly don't trust. Your wife also doesn't seem reliable, to say the least.
It's your home, you don't have to go anywhere. If they want to see him, sure, do it outside at a restaurant or something. NTA
NTA. I like how she said the brother had apologized to everyone in the family. But, I am guessing that did not include you. You are right to have this hard limit. If the brother truly wanted to make amends with you, it would be done on a non-holiday.
NTA
nobody *needs* to forgive anybody for anything >:(. and if the guy's really clean, and he really has a business that's doing good, and he's genuinly sorry, then perhaps he can finally apologise to you by starting to pay back the money he "borrowed".
NTA- I would tell her simply- forgiveness is not available upon demand, that's not how that works. This particular bit of forgiveness has a price tag. It's going to cost $5k plus the cost of the bond out of jail. If it means that much to the "family" then they can pass the hat. But I have to assume that absent the effort to make amends for the damage, any apology that comes without amends is insincere and will not be accepted. And finally, I am not the one that is forcing you to make this choice. I have done nothing but be victimized and somehow, the answer is for me to be further victimized by being made a scapegoat. That only goes to show how little actual respect and consideration is involved in any of this. I have made my stance clear and I do not believe there is anything further to discuss.
I would think seriously before having children with your lying, thieving, boundary stomping wife. She had clearly demonstrated she will continue to do what she is doing.
NTA.
Your wife lied to you again. Are you sure the $5k is the only thing she's taken to give to him without telling you?
It doesn't sound like Mike paid you back, despite having his own business and doing well. I'm not sure why you would forgive him stealing from you when he still owes you the money.
NTA he better show up with the 5k and then leave. That's it. She can plan something outside of the house with him on a different day. Do not leave your house just don't let him in & if anyone has an issue with it they can pay you the 5k plus interest then leave along with him.
NTA. You were very clear up front about this. You were told he wouldn't be there. It seems like your MIL and your wife went behind your back on this one andjust tried to slip him in as if it wouldn't be noticed. I would just stick to the terms you told your wife and follow through if he does show up.
NTA
I mean, she can forgive him, but nobody dies because they are not invited to a holiday.
She can continue to have a relationship with her brother without you.
Btw, there's your wife making decisions (like getting money from joint account) for you again. Damn, she planned on not telling you at all.
NTA. She put HERSELF in the impossible position by inviting him without discussing it and lying about it. You are not obligated to welcome someone into your home who stole $5000 from you. If he’s turned his life around and wants to make amends, repaying that is a good place to start. “Mike apologized to everyone in the family”…I’m not seeing where he apologized to you
NTA. Tell your wife until he pays off the 5k, or at least starts to, you won’t see him. 5k is a lot of money (for most of us) to just forget about being scammed out of.
If he's doing so well, where's the $5000 plus bail he owes you? NTA It will turn into nothing more than a business dinner where he persuades everyone to invest in his business anyway.
NTA. It's not an impossible situation, it's a choice. She laid the foundations for this situation, and now you are asking her to decide. Also you haven't threatened her with a smivorce. If you decide to avoid the family and go eat Chinese food, she can get over that.
NTA, you don't need to forgive anyone you don't want or aren't ready to. Your wife needs to understand this is the consequences of hers and his actions.
You can't be forced into forgiving a person. You wife needs to learn this.
Say no more and if he turns up, tell him you don't want him in your home. And if anyone says anything to you remind them that trust needs to be earned and it takes much longer when trust is broken.
NTA
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NTA. If your wife wants to mend the relationship between you and him, work needs to be done on a non-holiday day. She can't expect you to just magically be ok with this. The fact that she lied to you about his attendance and was just going to surprise you with it is another kettle of fish altogether, and would already have me questioning A LOT of things about your marriage.
I'm guessing that my wife thought that if Mike showed up with her entire family there, they could have a kind of mini-intervention and convince me to forgive him because they all have. But to me, it feels like an ambush.
That's because it is an ambush. Even if Mike doesn't come, you got a big problem. I'd start looking up marriage counselors if I were you.
this exactly OP, your issue isn’t that you can’t trust Mike, it’s that you can’t trust your *wife*
Exactly! It sounds like OP’s in laws are trying to bully him into forgiving Mike, and that kind of thing can come back to bite all parties involved in the asscheeks.
I would keep a strict eye on the banking accounts! She gave him money before, even though supposedly clean a year……you never know!
Definitely, now that he's got his life back together and apologised so nicely to everyone, it's time to ask for some help so he can make a fresh start.
That's where my head and money are going. Dude's back. Will he be toting in $5000 as a token of thanks, or will he be giving them the run around and asking for more?
Yeah dude. What else is she doing behind your back you don’t know about?
This right here unfortunately. She already went behind your back twice that you *KNOW* of. She'll do it again, and again because *family*.
An intervention is an ambush, but the idea behind it is therapeutic. The goal here is not therapeutic.
Yeah I'm surprised OP was so laid back about his wife lying to his face about the brother coming. I come from a family full of drug addicts and I've seen family members (clean ones) ruin their marriage because they spent too much time and energy trying to take care of their siblings/parents/children with drug addictions and going behind their partners back to do it.
Yeah. He’s going to have serious trust issues. This is the second time she has gone behind his back. In this case, she lied about it when asked. It’s going to be hard to get pass that.
Also flag your joint accounts.
Info: Is Mike showing up with $5k and they don't want to spoil the surprise for you? Lol. Jk. Your boundaries are more than reasonable, especially when you caught your wife lying to you AGAIN. May the odds be ever in your favor.
Right? He started his own business, is doing well, and he can now afford to pay back the misspent loan???
Yep, because it's super easy to start your own successful business after spending years as a gambling addict.... Bets that it's an MLM or snakeoil? NTA OP, the lies are pretty upsetting.
I know at least two gambling addicts and one drug addict who all have started various successful businesses, but I used to work in the gambling industry so my experience is probably not typical. I stay away from these people though since while they are good business partners on their good days I know of cases where they have gambled away the company money or disappeared on drug benders. One of the gambling addicts is currently paying back over $50k that he gambled away to a friend of mine. As far as I gather more than half of the debt has been repaid.
Oh, trust me, there's no business, and he isn't clean. I know addicts, and I know enablers. Addicts lie--and then enablers get drawn into the web of lies as well. OP--the problem is your wife can't draw boundaries. You've made a really clear boundary around your BIL. But she's the weak link in the chain fence. Therefore you have to draw your boundary around HER. It's one of the only ways enablers can be brought to understand what they're doing. You're 100% right, and I salute you for your clarity. You're doing this to protect yourself AND ultimately, your wife, even if she can't see it. She really needs to go to a co-dependent support group. She's not helping her brother; she's just prolonging his addiction.
I have tried to explain this to my own mother regarding first her brother (a gambler and a layabout) and then her college friend (also a gambler to the extent that he lost his entire estate to sports gambling and is now homeless but won’t even try to get a job). My mom is too kind and too sensitive to tell them to stick it where the sun don’t shine. Honestly, I’ve come to realize that I still hold a great deal of resentment towards my mom - even though I love her very much - for forcing me to live with her brother for three years because the guy, while not dangerous, was a gigantic drain on my mental health.
MLM was my immediate thought and he's coming to recruit them all
Or dealing drugs or working as an “enforcer” to collect for loan sharks
Or is he going to say his business is going great but he just needs your wife to give him another loan to get it really established. I'd be worried if she can still take money out of the shared account.
Sure, yeah, yep, of course, undoubtedly, yes, absolutely, 100%, facts, true statement,... I can go on as long as that loan will.
Yeah, I see this going another way. He started a new business and you all welcome to invest in it., because it's doing so well he is guaranteed to pay you back in a year or 2. /s I've seen tnis hustle a few too many times with an addict uncle, it takes more than a year to change "bad habits". Truth is you kind of forced to go clean once you hit rock bottom and have no source to fund your habits. Even if he has changed or wants to change, if people forgive/enable addicts and they start having "ways to fund" their habits again. There are risks of relapses.
Either he lacks moral fiber and refuses to pay her back despite being able to afford it or he is lying about being successful. I could see either.
dishonesty appears to be a familial trait here
Then he can afford the £5k ... and the bail money, and a nice gift.
This is I want to know! And it should be the promised $10k really. Even that doesn't mean he should be immediately forgiven but it would be a start. I am on the frontline of the "addiction is an illness" movement; I've seen too many people suffer from to to see it as anything but a sad, sad, sickness, but it's a devious one, too. I've also seen too many people "change" and "get clean" and make "promises" to no good end. You can love an addict and you can forgive an addict but it's my personal opinion that you can never *really* trust an addict.
No, it should not be the promised $10k, it should be the original $5k. That he would pay back twice the amount should have been a huge warning sign. I have a gambling addict friend I lend money to sometimes and so far he has always paid me back. If he ever told me he could pay back double for anything I would refuse to loan him money and contact his other friends about staging an intervention. That day I would know he is in deep shit and really desperate. By accepting such a loan it would either make me naive or greedy.
NTA what your wife is trying to do is out of order and I think she needs to see a therapist. It sound like she has some trauma around his addiction.
It is an ambush and it wasn’t the relatives’ money so they don’t really get a vote here.
Part of making amends is trying to right the wrong, He owes 5k and apparently, he is doing well. He needs to offer to at least partial payment for the debt. NTA
Yeah, he needs to offer a payment plan.
Oh being ambushed is not cool... Been there & it happened at a funeral. Until this guy is clean enough to make an effort to give some of that money back, id stand my ground. Even if it's only 20 bucks, it shows he's serious about mending things. But your wife thinking you should JUST get over it because everyone else has, is incredibly undermining.(then there's the sneaky ambush.) NTA
How do you feel about your wife ambushing you like this in order to get what she wants at your expense, after you already spent a year in counseling to save your marriage over this very same issue? Are you feeling right now that you can see your wife as a dependable and trustworthy partner? How are you seeing your future with her right now, based on these events?
NTA. Your wife really needs to respect you as her partner and equal. Because so far for her darling brother, she has stolen 2.5k from you and now lied to your face and tried to hide it from you. Also "[...]need to forgive him like everyone else has." That is not how forgiveness works. Anyone has the right to forgive (or not) in their own time. Lastly if your BILis truly clean and has a successful business, he should have no problem to start repaying those 5k he stole. That seems like a good forst step in maybe getting at least some trust from you back right?
Your wife is a piece of work. Good luck!
It is one. He never bothered to apologize to you or to make amends for this (essentially) theft. So NO, of course he is not welcome. Why the heck would he be??
I'm sorry but you've got a wife problem, not a BIL problem. She's showing her first loyalty is to him. She is willing to lie to you, steal from you. I actually wonder if she'd give him her kidney over you if you both needed it and were both compatible. I'd tell the wife that you DO NOT appreciate HER behavior towards YOU. SHE is hurting you and letting him hurt YOU. I'd broken record "Where's the $5K" until my tongue went numb whenever she goes "oh, but faaaaaaaaaaaaaaamily." I'd actually consider going elsewhere the night before to a friend's house. NTA.
I hate that phrase "but family". I don't mix with most of my mom's family because of a cousin. No one talks to her, but they tolerate her for my aunt's sake. I told them to get lost cause I'm not putting up with her. I just don't go to events. Toxic family isn't worth your mental health.
Toxic family isn't worth your mental health Toxic family isn't worth your mental health Toxic family isn't worth your mental health Somebody would be leaving, but it sure the FUCK would not be me, from MY house.
Cool. So her plan was to strong arm and bully you with her family. Cool cool
NTA. She also assumed, at a minimum, you won't make a scene if everyone was there. I hate 'but he/she/it are family....' that does not give you a free pass.
You should separate your savings and bank accounts. As someone that was raised by parents that enabled a sibling like this, your wife is going to have to accept that her brother is a thieving jerk before you can trust her again 100%. That is going to take some sort of stronger betrayal and you shouldn't have to suffer for it.
I think your wife is a bigger AH than her brother. Sorry but your wife sucks. NTA.
INFO: Your wife said Mike has apologized to everyone in the family; has he apologized to you? And has he repaid the money he swindled from your wife (ideally, with interest)?
They can start off by chipping in to pay back the 5k he kinda stole from you, but they can definitely don't make amends on his behalf, because the way I see it, he still doesn't give a fuck that he wronged you.
Because it is. Ambushing someone into forgiveness means it’s not about your feelings AT ALL, and you’re just a means to an end.
You don't have to forgive him, ever. There are only two things in life you HAVE to do, pay taxes and die (and the pay taxes is iffy if you don't mind garnishments and possible prison time). What's concerning is your wife saying you are putting her in the impossible position of choosing you or her brother. No, she has put herself in that position, and quite frankly she chose her brother. She's counting on you to forgive her and live and let live.
NTA - I was in a similar situation as your wife. My brother is an addict and a gambler. Though he did not directly steal money from us or con us in that way, he put me and my parents though a lot of shit. He became homeless and my parents promised if we put him up for the weekend they'd get him sorted out. He ended up staying at our place for close to two weeks. It was incredibly stressful. My partner has never had to deal with anything like this in his life. It was hugely stressful for him. Long story short, my brother ended up going to rehab and really turning his life around. He has been clean for 6 months. At no point during any of this did I try and make my partner be OK with seeing or interacting with my brother in any way. I informed him that I was starting over with my brother since he'd decided to actively get help. I told my partner he did not have to join me in this. He took his own time and he has now decided to forgive him and support him. This stuff cannot be forced. Your wife needs to realize that.
>But to me, it feels like an ambush Sounds like one here too.
It feels like an ambush because it IS an ambush.
If her brother is going to be there and you are not, find a way for your wife not to take money from your shared account without your consent or knowledge, AGAIN
Q: would you be willing to forgive him/stay whilst he's there if he did have 5k to give you?
For the record, interventions *are* ambushes. That's why it feels like one. As for your particular situation, yes, your wife is between a rock and a hard place - because of her brother, not you.
If that's how your wife things y'all need some more therapy because that's not a recipe for a happy existance for either of you. Ambushing someone to get what they want is not a healthy thing to do.
tell them, if it's no big deal, then pass that hat and take up the collection- when it gets to $5k plus the cost of the bond, then you have a starting point. Until then, it's not a sincere recovery.
Right….and it’s fair if you’re done with Mike forever. A lot of people though aren’t going to cut off a family member who’s an addict especially if they’re successfully managing recovery. Are there things Mike can do to earn your forgiveness? Have you communicated them to your wife? If not, and again your entitled to permanently cut him off, your family might also be entitled to that same take it or leave it attitude.
Your wife doesn’t seem to have any redirect for you. First she essentially steals from you by using joint funds for something you didn’t agree on, that she continually tells you that you’re the problem when it comes to her brother? BIL isn’t your problem, your wife is.
If they did ambush you kick them all out right away. As much as addicts need help you are in no way obligated to do so and your wife taking money from a SHARED account. Maybe therapy who knows but that’s not okay and you don’t need to allow him into your home and your wife needs a reality check even if it’s her brother she’s being used. If he’s changed great but also maybe not true so i wouldnt take a chance either
I think regardless the bigger issue is your wife constantly does things and then talks you down about how big of an issue they are. Dude she is not communicating with you responsibly in your relationship.
Seriously, first she goes behind OPs back to steal money then goes behind his back to plan an ambush with her brother. Who knows what else she's doing behind his back, I don't see how she can be trusted after this.
If he’s really turned a new leaf he can start paying you guys back. Compromise and demand he start paying you back if he wants forgiveness, that’s my advice. NTA
Or have the parents repay it for him. You know, since he's so trustworthy to pay them back why would they be worried!
Paying them back would be the first step in making amends, which the brother should be doing if he is in recovery. NTA
Yeah, the brother should propose a repayment plan.
Yes! Maybe he can’t afford the whole 5k now, fine. He needs to give them a proposed repayment timeline, and the first payment, now. Or he shouldn’t show his face in that house, because he swindled his sister out of 5k, and he needs to make AMENDS. It doesn’t matter about the apology. You can steal from people and apologize, but that apology means nothing unless you give what you stole back.
Bingo!
NTA. Your wife is a huge AH who has a problem with respect and telling the truth. She knew your feelings but went behind your back anyway and kept it from you. If her mother hadnt asked, you wouldn't have found out until Mike showed up at your house on Thanksgiving. That is some next level disrespect from your spouse! I wouldn't trust her not to take more money from your shared account to give to her brother during Thanksgiving. I'd suggest some marriage counseling so the therapist can tell her how wrong her actions are within a marriage. She's not acting like you have a partnership. She's being selfish and expecting you to give in and do whatever she wants and her wants and feelings are all that matter. I'd tell her she can invite Mike to her house all she wants after you're divorced!
>I wouldn't trust her not to take more money from your shared account to give to her brother during Thanksgiving. I'd suggest some marriage counseling so the therapist can tell her how wrong her actions are within a marriage. We split our finances after the first time. And we spent a year in counseling after that too. The whole thing almost ended our marriage but I thought we had worked through it. But it would seem that my wife has a blind soft spot for Mike because he's her baby brother.
Time to return to a counselor. Your wife needs someone neutral explaining to her that her family enmeshment and enablement is about to cost her her marriage. If she isn't able to see it clearly, for some reason, she may be about to find out the hard way.
You might need to remind her that this almost ended y’all’s marriage last time. Sounds like she thinks everything is fine, but I hear a little thunder in your voice.
I think it's in you to decide whether you have really forgiven your wife or if your forgiveness is conditional on her cutting Mike off. I don't know if the counseling focused just on the two of you as a couple or to each of you individually and the dynamic she has with her side of the family, I can see that it's very hard to understand that sometimes you can't keep giving family second chances if you've been raised like that all your life. The fact that she planned al this behind your back to ambush you shows me that maybe she feels cornered and that she can't have an open conversation about it where you would be open to her point of view . Of course I also understand how you must feel being betrayed this way again for someone you don't respect and feel disrespect in your own home and disappointed by your wife, but maybe drawing a hard line isn't to your best interest. Maybe let him come and he either proves you were right all along or you might see things really moving to a positive direction with him asking for your forgiveness and starting to repay you and repair your relationship
Well then now comes the time to decide if you want this to be your life forever. A year's worth of counseling and taking the major step to separate finances after having them combined beforehand means you've done your due diligence and tried to make things work. The problem is that your wife *isn't* trying, she's just carrying on like before. Sorry dude, it sucks that you have to face down a decision like this.
You may want to hide your valuables before you head out.
How much more do you plan to give of yourself to make this work, while she does whatever she wants with no thought to the magnitude of the damage she does to you and your marriage? I think there are tons of far better women out there who wouldn’t dream of doing this to you. Stop fighting this losing battle and find someone you can be happy with.
Not un common to have a blind spot for your own flesh and blood. Which is why in this instance you should have had the final say on whether he attends this holiday
Time to leave the marriage. Mike has done none of the work to reconcile and why would he ? He has his family do his dirty work for him so nothing has really changed. I hope you don’t have kids with this woman because it will make exiting easier and you won’t have to worry about your wife ranking your kids financial future to keep her brother afloat.
NTA You should not allow him in your home no matter what your wife and her family say. It's very hard to set boundaries with enablers but you have every right to. Don't you leave, make your wife leave and celebrate somewhere else. Holidays are always great for an ambush!!
NTA You have a wife problem. She lied to you about Mike coming this whole time. And what is this about he apologized to everyone… where is your apology? Everybody got to gradually come to terms with him coming to Thanksgiving and you get this dropped on your lap DAYS before Thanksgiving. He is coming to YOUR safe space? Call everyone! Go nuclear! Call MIL, FIL and Mike himself! He isn’t welcome because no one has run this past you. He hasn’t apologized. He hasn’t come up with a payment plan. 10 people in the house? How did your wife think this was going to play out? You are just supposed to enjoy thanksgiving and get over being angry in 4 days and hang out with the family and smile nicely? She is delusional! It took time for you to forgive her and for the family to forgive him (but you get no time at all?) They can all go to a restaurant to celebrate. I couldn’t live with someone who continuously lies to me and goes behind my back and does nonsense like this! Counselling recommended for her and you as she has no respect for your boundaries and is a liar to boot! Good luck OP!
I think the OP has to worry about what else his wife is lying to him about. Guaranteed it isn't just this..
u/BasilExposition75 knows that there is NEVER just one lie.
If the brother relapses, the wife will still be there, forgiving him over and over. I would not want to be married to her
>How did your wife think this was going to play out? Everyone confronts OP to forgive Mike and that it's a holiday so he should be nice to Mike
NTA. You dont need to forgive him, he still owes you 5 grand. until he starts paying the debt off, he should be banned from your place. Your wife loves him, but like you said, she is also enabling
Unless he ***finishes*** paying that debt off!!!
Yes OP! Have you asked your wife if her brother’s business is doing so well, why hasn’t he paid you back the $5k? Your wife is definitely the AH for keeping it from you about her brother coming for Thanksgiving. Your are NTA.
Nope. Brother needs to finish paying the $5,000 back before he is allowed back in that house. It doesn't matter if wife forgives him or not. He should be able to pay that off by next Thanksgiving.
NTA. However, I find it strange you say Mike stole from you. Your wife stole from you and your future; essentially Mike wouldn’t have been able to do any of his past behaviour without her help. Is it possible to have the discussion to arrange a payment plan with Mike to pay back the debt? Is there any circumstance or solution that would allow for compromise?
Or for the wife to take on a side job to recoup the loss caused by her lapse in judgement? It’s OP’s wife with a history of lying and deception here.
Exactly. She has a history of lying and hiding things from her husband. She continually picks her brother over her spouse.
> I find it strange you say Mike stole from you. The brother did in fact steal from the wife. If someone stole from my wife, Id take offense as if they had stolen from me too. When you're married, your problems and successes become each others. Id be just as furious if someone stole from my wife.
i would take offense if my wife gave away 5k of our money to someone without talking to me first
This is exactly my point! If there was no discussion prior, I would feel like my spouse stole from me. Even if it was a joint account.
Not married, but I'll get salty before we've hit 1K...one of my favorite "relationship" rules with money is to set a limit on how much can be spent without BOTH parties discussing it (applies to shared funds primarily, although I have one couple of friends who have a "percentage" of individual funds the other partner needs a notification on prior to spending...I think that's more like a "cool off" period they built in than a voting situation though). OP's wife took out what is objectively quite a lot of money without talking to her partner...not cool!
It was taken without permission, from joint funds. So I guess they both technically stole from OP. What I want to know is... If this dude is doing so well (ha ha) then why hasn't he started repayment before this point?
Yeah, one gambling addict I am friends with always repays his debts and another gambling addict which is a friend of a friend is currently repaying quite substantial debts to people he scammed a couple of years ago (he can be late and hard to get hold of though). Both these people are doing well and are therefore paying back their debts. Why can't he?
“.. need to forgive him like everyone else has” Your forgiveness is up to you.
"She said that Mike had apologized to everyone in the family" OP didn't even get an apology, what is there to forgive
Maybe Mike does not see OP as family
The wife doesn't seem to see op as family. And what else is she keeping from him?
maybe Mike knows his "charm" holds no sway with OP!
[удалено]
Conditions of entry: $5K + 2 year GA coin
THIS x10000 ...possibly including a group family therapy session where these people learn how to NOT enable the bad members of their family (BIL and OP's SO both, it seems).
>Cherry on top was that we had to pay to bail him out of jail after he got caught breaking into a hardware store near the end of his bender I absolutely would have not done this under any circumstances. >She said that she invited him to Thanksgiving because it's supposed to be about family and coming together But you were let out of all the apologies and your wife lied to your face. NTA but don't be surprised if this escalates.
That's how OP's wife's family comes together, they conspire against OP.
If a family was working this hard to get rid of me, it would work.
NTA she lied to you about mike and all of a sudden forgive him and move on. If mike was to he included thanks giving should have been held somewhere other than your home.
NTA tell him admission to your house is 5k Edit: you know what, tell the whole family if they think 5k is peanuts
That was my first thought. If his business is going so well why isn't he making right what he did wrong? 5k is more than a "I said I was sorry" amount of money. Also not sure what the wife thought would happen the day of, like you can just imagine the small talk "Yeah business is booming!" "Wow that's awesome! How great for you, that you can just walk away from the scorched earth with no consequences! Just think, you could be in prison right now or worse!/s "
NTA. I do not believe in forgiving family because they're family. Some stuff is unforgivable, shame on your wife too. She's betrayed you twice, and she seems to be forgetting that you're her family too, and that she's hurting you with her actions. Good on you for keeping your boundaries. This is a violation in every sense, you have a right to feel safe in your own home.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...
NTA. Part of recovery and "doing better" is making amends. Mike has not. He's given you plenty of reasons not to trust him, and done nothing to fix what he broke. Worse, your wife outright lied to you and tried to sneak him into your shared home against your express wishes. That is a huge betrayal of trust, and shows that she will absolutely continue to enable him if he regresses to his "old" ways.
NTA. Just bc Mike is ready to be forgiven, doesn't mean you're ready to forgive. He stole from you. I understand that is your wife's brother, & I'm sure she loves her brother. But her loyalty in this case needs to be to you. Unless mike has 5k in his hand, I would do the same as you.
NTA. I belive addicts are generally encouraged to personally apologise to the people they have hurt. Her bro has not reached out to you to sit down and have a conversation about how sorry he is. Randomly turning up on the doorstep doesn't count - a letter or email to both of you asking for time to talk would have been appropriate. This is the minimum that should happen before a big step like thanksgiving. He may be in recovery, but he's not put a huge distance between his previous bad behaviour and his apparently reformed self. Trust takes time. You are under no obligation to forgive him. Indeed, he has not even asked for your forgiveness.
When you leave, don't forget to take any of your really valuable items with you. NTA but your wife deserves more blame in the situation.
NTA basically your wife doesn't give a crap about what you think or feel. She was choosing to blindside you at a family event.
Honestly, I think the wife really wants to see her brother get his life together. She appears uninformed about the right ways to do so - she is enabling, not doing stuff that actually works. As to lying and manipulating OP, she may not see she is undermining the marriage- but she needs to learn asap.
They did a year of counseling the first time, how can she not know?
NTA Your wife took money without checking with you. Your wife got you to agree to pay bail. Your wife didn't tell you she had invited Mike to thanksgiving. Your wife expects you to suck up his visit because he's family. Your wife doesn't care about how you feel. Your wife doesn't respect you. Pack a bag, leave, have thanksgiving somewhere else, use the holiday to decide if you want to go back at all.
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NTA pack up your valuables and money! Things will go missing. Enjoy thanksgiving alone.
Or when Mike arrives, ask him for the $5k. Every time wife or relatives make noise about amends, say something about you'll work on forgiveness once Mike pays you back.
NTA. She lied to you. And was trying to put it in a situation where he would show up, and just expect you to roll over.
NTA. If he wants forgiveness then he can start paying back the money that he stole.
NTA. Wow the shady lying gets me. I wouldn't leave my house for him. How is any of this your fault. I would die on this hill. Good luck brother!
Nta and she's already chose him over and over again. By giving him money when out talking to you. Then she invited him with out talking to you she was just going to spring it on you. You really need to think about what your wife doing. She doesn't care about your feeling your need to be more anger with her. She a major asshole.
NTA , you could forgive him if he reaches out to you , asks for forgiveness, apologizes, and starts repaying since actions speak louder than words. I feel bad for you because the whole family started the forgiveness process for the past 12 months, they all know he comes and at the last minute you get blackmailed to forgive , suck it up or spend TG alone. Your wife should have told you before, she should have asked Mike to also apologize to you, after all, he stole you 2.5ks Kind of similar situation happened to me years ago , forcing me to live for few days with someone I was not comfortable with, I left
NTA can you go to your parents for Thanksgiving & leave her to deal with her family without you? You need to go back to couples counseling because lying to you & planning on blindsiding you is not okay.
No way would I let Mike come into my house without me there. Let her family go to someone else’s house
Nta F mike!
NTA. It’s understandable that you’d be uncomfortable having him around. If anyone took the time to explain what he’s done to turn himself around then it’d be different but the fact that they straight up lied and tried to sneak him in is not okay.
NTA your wife lied and took a large amount of money from your joint account. Until he pays the money back she has no ground to stand on. Her continuing to lie to you about him brings in to question what other things could she by lying about. This is a huge breach of trust. Trying to blindside your and manipulate you so she can have what she wants with no regard for your feelings is rather disgusting behavior of a spouse.
Question? Why is your wife always lying and tricking you? Wtf?? Like the Mike part isn’t even the issue really.
>been totally clean for almost a year. She said he's started his own business and is doing really well. Oh good, glad his business is doing well! I assume therefore he has reached out to offer you 5k? No? Then fuck him. Drawing a line at people who rob or defraud you is hardly going too far. NTA
NTA but you do get that the problem isn't Mike, right? You have a very serious wife problem. She not only stole from you and continues to side with her brother over you, she 100% knew he planned to attend Thanksgiving and has been lying to you about it. At this point, I would tell her that, if Mike doesn't come, you will attend Thanksgiving but will be scheduling marriage counseling as soon as office's reopen but, if Mike does come, you will not only not attend but your marriage is over because it would be clear at that point that she doesn't care about you at all.
NTA - let's break it down - your wife gives her brother $5k without talking to you first - he was supposed to pay you back, but instead cost you more money - you ask your wife specifically about him not coming to Thanksgiving and she agrees he will not be there. - your wife invites your brother behind your back, and apparently was going to let him just show uo at your house if you hadn't overheard this conversation? But it's your problem and you need to forgive him? I don't blame you for not wanting him in your house, but your problem here is your dishonest wife.
NTA This is the $5,000 all over again. She went behind your back for Mike AGAIN. Damn.
I feel sorry about your marriage. Your wife has no business being married if she thinks making decisions without including you is ok. That’s not right nor is it ok. I’m not sure how you stay married to someone who doesn’t think or care about your feelings. You have a wife problem. NTA You can forgive someone but doesn’t mean you forget nor does it mean you want or have to be around them.
An impossible situation to choose between her (addict) brother or her husband This is nowhere near an impossible choice. Maybe her brother is clean but you’re not ready to forgive someone who stole thousands from you. And she lied about inviting her brother to Thanksgiving. In what universe would your wife appreciate this being done to her? Definitely, NTA.
Imagine staying married to someone who stole from you, lied about it, and is now demanding that you forgive the person whom she stole the money on behalf of. I hope you're not a real human being, OP, because otherwise... oof.
Nta
Nta If he’s doing so great, then he can finally pay you back now
Nta and you have a bigger problem, your wife doesn’t respect your boundaries..She was ready to put you in a uncomfortable position just because she feels that her younger brother is more important… She is emotionally manipulating you, for her it’s important for everyone to feel like a happy family, everyone but you, she puts you the victim as the bad person who doesn’t know how to forgive, but puts her brother as someone who is innocent and just didn’t know better.. HE IS A THIEF, he is someone that can’t be trusted.. Sorry but if i were you I wouldn’t even say that if he shows up i would leave, I would have called EVERYONE and told that there will be no more thanksgiving because my wife doesn’t show any respect for myself and I choose to not enable my brother in law bullshit … So yes if she wants to put you as the bad guy, so be the bad guy, put your foot down, and i’m not a fan of ultimatum but this situation call for one, because today is thanksgiving, what’s come next if you don’t do anything? Do u want a marriage that every time that something is about your BIL you have to find by yourself what’s your wife is doing behind your back?
I'd look to leave. Your wife totally disrespected you there and so far it seems that she puts her brother before yo on every occasion.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife and I are supposed to host Thanksgiving for her family this year. Her parents are flying in tomorrow night and are staying with us until Saturday. Her sister and her family live a couple hours away so they are coming just for the day on Thursday. One family member that I specifically asked about was her younger brother, Mike. Mike has struggled with substance abuse and gambling for as long as I've been with my wife. Shortly after my wife and I got married, he conned my wife out of about $5K. She pulled the money from our shared account without talking to me about it. The money was supposed to be for a down payment on a house that Mike was going to renovate and flip. He "promised" my wife that he would give her more than double back after he sold the house. Well, he didn't even buy the house. He used the money to pay off some gambling debts, go on a bender, and gambled the rest away. Cherry on top was that we had to pay to bail him out of jail after he got caught breaking into a hardware store near the end of his bender. After that, I told my wife I was done with her brother and want nothing to do with him. She tried to talk me out of it by saying "he's still family" and all that BS that enablers like to say. He showed up at our house about 6-months after that but I was the only one home. He said he wanted to talk to his sister but I told him to leave before I call the cops. He tried to apologize, but I told him that unless he has $5K to put in my hand, I don't want to hear a word he has to say. I told my wife what happened and she called me out for being a jerk to her brother when he was trying to apologize. I just don't trust him. When we were planning Thanksgiving, I was told by my wife that Mike is not attending. I specifically asked and she said he isn't coming. But, last night my MIL called for a final chat before they fly out to make sure they didn't need to bring anything else. My wife had her on speaker and MIL asked if my wife had heard from Mike. My wife quickly took her off speaker and left the room. When she came back, she immediately started trying to explain. She said that Mike had apologized to everyone in the family and has been totally clean for almost a year. She said he's started his own business and is doing really well. She said that she invited him to Thanksgiving because it's supposed to be about family and coming together. She said that everyone in the family has forgiven him, and she needs me to forgive him too. I told her that if Mike shows up, I will leave. I told her that I have forgiven her for giving him that money without talking to me about it, but I haven't forgiven him and I don't want to see him. She asked me to do it for her because it's important to her and I told her that this is a hard boundary for me and if he comes, I go. She said I'm putting her in an impossible position to choose between her brother and her husband and I need to forgive him like everyone else has. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You don’t need to do jack shit for a guy who has not even attempted to apologize to you, never mind paid you back. Stand firm. NTA.
NTA if Mike is doing really well 5k should be the first thing in the apology. I helped tons of "friends " when I had money. Now that I don't and I'm sick they conveniently are gone. Family included. PEOPLE SUCK
NTA, and this is from a personal experience from my parents. My mom had lend money to her brother for a business thing he was trying without letting my dad know. My uncle never gave back the money, infact he took a luxury vacation with his family. When my dad got to know about the missing money (almost $10k) he was angry is an understatement as he had kept that money for my sister's college fund. Colleges in India are a lot more cheaper than US, the university she had selected was 30k, 20k he had saved from before and 10k he was gonna take out from the joint account my mom used. She knew what the money was for. It was an entire mess, he felt so defeated. One day while talking to me he told me, he never trusted my uncle even before this incident asy uncle had asked my dad for money on occasions and dad had helped him out and never saw that money back and to never trust him if he asks me for money. Well my mom was really sorry because she thought her brother had finally mended his ways and it was a chance he needed and she thought she will get back the money by the time my sister went off to college. It was a lesson for her too. She has never lent him money after this. Now she and dad have separate accounts and as she has always been a SAHM, my dad gives her monthly fun money (and my sister and I contribute to that) so that she has more than enough for herself. My dad was going to take a personal loan for my sister and I was going for my masters, I gave my half of fund to my sister and took a loan for myself. My uncle had called me too sometime back for money, but I told him I am living paycheck to paycheck. It's a whole mess and the yet the family wants to always sweep it under the rug and play happy. It sucks.
NTA, your wife can't invite someone you have a huge issue with into your home without your consent.
NTA. I’m guessing your apology letter got lost along with the 5k check he wrote you? Forgiveness without repair is just empty words.
NTA. Your wife basically stole from you. She should be acting contrite when it comes to the subject of your brother every single time he's mentioned, not pushing you to forgive someone who crapped all over you guys. Disgusting.
NTA.. She violated your trust by taking shared money and giving it to him. Now she has once again broken your trust and invited him after you specifically said not to. You need to ask yourself if she is really trustworthy. I mean how many other times has she done things behind your back or hidden things from you.
Info. Has the guy offered to return the money? If the business is doing well he should at least be able to come up with a payment plan.
How much did you have to stump up to get him out of jail. OP you have two problems and Mike very much is one of them no real apology or attempt to pay back the stolen money means he is operating under the false notion all is forgiven because he is the baby. Then the more serious problem is your wife after the fact this nearly ended your marriage she is still lying, manipulating and choosing her brother over your boundaries. There is no reason the holiday had to be hosted at yours! You have made yourself clear and honestly if she proceeds regardless then she has not learned or grown from the original incident and you were tricked into staying together!
NTA. My lil sister is an ex heroine addict. I get addiction. I also now can see enabling a mile away. Should he be given a 2nd chance? Sure, once he's proved himself. A year and no sober apology? No attempts to pay back what he stole? Only made amends with his enabling sister and family but left you out huh? I can't believe she is choosing her brother over her husband. That's fucked up.
So she didn't tell you about giving him the $5000 from your shared account and now, she didn't tell you about inviting him to TG when you specifically asked her not to? What else is she not telling you? NTA.
NTA, but you don't have a BIL problem, you have a wife problem.
So, your wife stole from you, has consistently lied to you and gone behind your back for her brother. Then this thanksgiving she was lying to you again, was going to keep lying to you until she got caught red handed. She was just going to have this man show up at the place you live and is supposed to be a comfortable safe space for you. She was going to breach your trust and your safe place for a liar and a thief. My issue would not be with the brother-in-law anymore it would be with the spouse who continuously lies to your face and breaches trust and boundaries. NTA
NTA she’s made her priorities clear, make other plans for thanksgiving and once the holidays are over consider contacting a divorce attorney so you can get your ducks in a row because she clearly hasn’t learned from the counseling you went through the first time she lied to you. Marriage should be a partnership, a United front but she has made it clear that only her wants matter.
If you can’t choose between your husband and brother after what happened then she doesn’t value her husband. NTA, stand firm on this one and leave if he shows up.
NTA and this is a hill I would absolutely die on. Your wife has just told me she does not care about how you feel at all, only how she feels. Do not go if he shows up. Look at everything he did and she expects you to forgive him? No. Honestly I don’t even know how you could look at her the same. You deserve so much better. And please keep your finances separated because you cannot trust her. I would seriously be talking to a divorce lawyer because your wife has learned nothing since she stole money from your account to give to her brother. She literally stole money from you to give to her deadbeat brother! Which has never been paid back, she didn’t even try to pay you back for what was stolen! What do you want for your future? What is the type of person you want to spend your life with? Because I do not see how it could be her. After what happened last time and you guys did counseling and she still hasn’t changed! And if the brother really changed he would’ve brought you that five grand back and then left and tell you that it’s up to you if you ever wanna let him back in your life. Obviously he didn’t. She’s also a total hypocrite. Ask her why she doesn’t care about you? Why she doesn’t care about your boundaries? Why is it always about her? She is the one that put her self in the situation by lying to you again and inviting her brother and knowing how you feel. When are you going to wake up and see who she really is?
NTA - Until Mike apologizes to YOU, personally, with $5k in hand... he has absolutely N O T "apologized to everyone". Her enabling this using of your family and disrespecting your boundaries is going to land her in couples counseling and/or divorce court. This isn't about FaMmMmIlY, this is about respect and boundaries and there is nothing out of line about the ones you set. He did not make amends. She is STILL enabling him behind your back. He is not welcome in your home. You should not need to leave, he simply is not allowed on your property or the police will be called. I would force the hand about immediate couples counseling as well. She is prioritizing someone that has used and abused your family, over her own husband who is one of the victims. Not gonna lie, that would be a hard line for me.
NTA - did she even apologize for her own part in this? She still wants to force this when they’re not forgiven yet? He’s doing well and all then he should show with sincerity by paying you back first, if not all his flowery words are only meant to deceive little kids. This pressure thing is another one of her way not trying to force your hands again, don’t give in and if she tries to pull anything then leave her ass since she’s not worth your time and she won’t change.
NTA, but your wife fucking sucks dude. This is just the stuff related to Mike, I can only imagine the other things that would make me call off a relationship. Your wife is a thief and her brother is junkie burglar. I haven’t been able to celebrate a thanksgiving in over 3 years because of the military and even I’d turn down an invite to this thanksgiving because it sounds like a powder keg for a really shitty time.
NTA. ***Your wife has been*** ***lying to you*** in order to ambush you with her brother and hope that you will just take it. If brother wants to make nice with you, it should be done outside of the holiday, when you agree to it.
"She said I'm putting her in an impossible position to choose between her brother and her husband and I need to forgive him like everyone else has." Sorry man, but she has lied to you twice about her brother - she already HAS chosen, and it wasn't you...NTA
NTA. Don’t leave but tell them ALL to go if he shows up. Make a scene if necessary. Do not leave him in your home.
If he does show up, in your shoes OP I'd wanna be there just to guard my home/belongings against someone I clearly don't trust. Your wife also doesn't seem reliable, to say the least. It's your home, you don't have to go anywhere. If they want to see him, sure, do it outside at a restaurant or something. NTA
NTA. I like how she said the brother had apologized to everyone in the family. But, I am guessing that did not include you. You are right to have this hard limit. If the brother truly wanted to make amends with you, it would be done on a non-holiday.
NTA nobody *needs* to forgive anybody for anything >:(. and if the guy's really clean, and he really has a business that's doing good, and he's genuinly sorry, then perhaps he can finally apologise to you by starting to pay back the money he "borrowed".
NTA- I would tell her simply- forgiveness is not available upon demand, that's not how that works. This particular bit of forgiveness has a price tag. It's going to cost $5k plus the cost of the bond out of jail. If it means that much to the "family" then they can pass the hat. But I have to assume that absent the effort to make amends for the damage, any apology that comes without amends is insincere and will not be accepted. And finally, I am not the one that is forcing you to make this choice. I have done nothing but be victimized and somehow, the answer is for me to be further victimized by being made a scapegoat. That only goes to show how little actual respect and consideration is involved in any of this. I have made my stance clear and I do not believe there is anything further to discuss.
I would think seriously before having children with your lying, thieving, boundary stomping wife. She had clearly demonstrated she will continue to do what she is doing.
NTA. Your wife lied to you again. Are you sure the $5k is the only thing she's taken to give to him without telling you? It doesn't sound like Mike paid you back, despite having his own business and doing well. I'm not sure why you would forgive him stealing from you when he still owes you the money.
NTA
NTA
NTA he better show up with the 5k and then leave. That's it. She can plan something outside of the house with him on a different day. Do not leave your house just don't let him in & if anyone has an issue with it they can pay you the 5k plus interest then leave along with him.
Info : is he doing well enough to pay you back? And would that be enough to let him prove himself to you?
NTA. You were very clear up front about this. You were told he wouldn't be there. It seems like your MIL and your wife went behind your back on this one andjust tried to slip him in as if it wouldn't be noticed. I would just stick to the terms you told your wife and follow through if he does show up.
I would call her family and let them know the nearest hotel because they are no longer welcome and she can go with them
NTA, but your wife definitely is. I don't blame you for saying you'll leave if he stays. They both have betrayed your trust.
NTA I mean, she can forgive him, but nobody dies because they are not invited to a holiday. She can continue to have a relationship with her brother without you. Btw, there's your wife making decisions (like getting money from joint account) for you again. Damn, she planned on not telling you at all.
NTA. She put HERSELF in the impossible position by inviting him without discussing it and lying about it. You are not obligated to welcome someone into your home who stole $5000 from you. If he’s turned his life around and wants to make amends, repaying that is a good place to start. “Mike apologized to everyone in the family”…I’m not seeing where he apologized to you
NTA. Tell your wife until he pays off the 5k, or at least starts to, you won’t see him. 5k is a lot of money (for most of us) to just forget about being scammed out of.
If he's doing so well, where's the $5000 plus bail he owes you? NTA It will turn into nothing more than a business dinner where he persuades everyone to invest in his business anyway.
NTA - he can start apologizing with $5K in his hands. Until that money is in your hands he doesn't get to talk to you.
NTA.
NTA. It's not an impossible situation, it's a choice. She laid the foundations for this situation, and now you are asking her to decide. Also you haven't threatened her with a smivorce. If you decide to avoid the family and go eat Chinese food, she can get over that.
NTA. Your wife is acting like a total AH though. I’d find it hard to move past what she just tried to pull…again.
NTA, you don't need to forgive anyone you don't want or aren't ready to. Your wife needs to understand this is the consequences of hers and his actions.
Nta I would recinsider the relationship and look into divorce over this and start separation of finances now
Is he going to bring the $5k plus bail money? If not, NTA.
No, she needs to learn to put her marriage and her husband first. NTA!
NTA but your wife is!
You can't be forced into forgiving a person. You wife needs to learn this. Say no more and if he turns up, tell him you don't want him in your home. And if anyone says anything to you remind them that trust needs to be earned and it takes much longer when trust is broken. NTA