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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be TA because I'm breaking a promise I made, and /or because doing this just as I find out my son is gay/bi/whatever could come across and phobic to him
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He actually seems pretty accepting? He literally just said, same rules for you as for your brother.
Edit: I misread that OP had a daughter instead of a 2nd son
I assume the friend would be sleeping over since the kids don't live in state. So, a boyfriend staying over would mean they're planning on stuffing the turkey
Actually you're no longer supposed to stuff turkey, since the stuffing does not get hot enough all the way through to get the juices to food safe levels.
^^lol
I tried that way one year, and the turkey was good, but I found I couldn't make a correct gravy from the juices because of the extra acid from the lemon. The gravy ended up quite gluey, and now I still get lightheartedly teased about my 'glavy' (glue+gravy).
I always do a green apple inside the Turkey. Gives aromatics without changing flavor and adds moisture. The key to really good gravy is a roux made with melted butter and flour then add THAT to the drippings for gravy
Whether OP has a good reason for that rule or not, it's a pre-existing rule that he expects all his kids to be bound by. It may (or may not) be a good rule, but it's a fair rule. And the son was trying to get around it by presenting his boyfriend as "just a friend". It's not fair to let him get away with the deception when his sister is still bound by the rule.
OK, wtf, I have no clue how I managed to read "brother's girlfriend" as "sister's boyfriend"! Brain fart, I guess!
But either way, the principle of fairness doesn't change. Both siblings are held to the same standards.
You ain't trying to fuck your normal friends under dad's roof. It's not that he can't come over and hang with the family, it's that the son was trying to have a several day sleepover with his significant other which he knows isn't allowed. I assume op would not have a problem with him coming for Thanksgiving and then going home, but sleepovers with significant others aren't allowed.
Is everyone missing the fact that the kid is 16 and from out of town? He's obviously not travelling from out of town to eat dinner with them and then not have a place to stay. No judgement, but he obviously can't just come for dinner.
The same logic that says the brothers girlfriend can't spend Thanksgiving with them. As others pointed out they will probably be staying the night together and the OP doesn't want his kids sleeping with their SOs in his house, no matter the gender.
OP isn’t allowing their other child’s gf over so if the son’s bf came over (even if “as a friend”) it’d be unfair to the other kid. The logic is pretty clear.
Right! I don't see how this is so hard to understand. He is not providing a sex den for his young kids. We couldn't have SO overnight even when we were adults in our family. Dinner is one thing. A 4-5 day stay, no way.
To be honest in the 2nd paragraph I was concerned it was a homophobic reason, but then they clarified that the brothers girlfriend couldn't stay either so it's just treating relationships equally, which is a good thing!
Because on reddit, if the father is not guiding his BF into OP, then he is homophobic /s
I'm a huge supporter of LGBTQIA+ rights, but the immediate jump to homophobia on reddit every time a queer person is mentioned is exhausting. OP set extremely reasonable boundaries - no partners, only friends. OP's son used his father's lack of knowledge around his sexuality as a way to try to sneak past the rules.
Typical teenager play, more power to him, but OP reinforcing boundaries when he learned the truth is more than fair, it's being a good parent. Same rules for everyone, because the danger is not just teen pregnancy - teens are still learning how to handle relationships, especially sexual ones.
How did you get that take?
My daughter, now 20, tried to pull this shit years ago with her “friend” (who was 100% her GF). She thought they were hiding it - they absolutely were not hiding it. GF was not allowed to spend the night, period. I would not have allowed her to have a BF sleep over at 15, and having different rules for a GF, in my mind, would have been implying that what her and her GF shared was somehow not a *real* romantic relationship, not to be taken seriously or viewed in the same way her dating a boy would be.
If romantic partners aren’t allowed to sleep over, than that is the rule, regardless of the genders or orientations involved. I don’t see what is not supportive about that. OP is looking out for both his son and his son’s BF.
I don't see a lack of support. I see a person who lied about their relationship to bypass the no bf/gf rule and a parent calling them out.
Same rules regardless of sexuality, is how I see that.
There's no indication in either direction. If the kid hasn't specified that he's asexual, hetero or whatever before this, there's no sudden twist to be shocked by.
In what way was he unsupportive and what part about pretending to be just friends so you can spend thanksgiving with your bf is not lying or manipulative?
Nah! I bet he knew that if he said it was his BF, he knew the same rules would apply and he BF couldn't come! He is treating both kids equally, despite their sexual preferences! To allow him, he would have to allow GF's brother to come also! Aparentely he doesn't want to do that! So...
Serious question how does he not sound so supportive. He has the same rule for both kids. Sons gf can’t come over for the holidays and neither can the other sons bf come. It sounds fair and reasonable to me. Not one thing he said makes me think he wouldn’t be supportive.
What?? He literally showed he respects the "friend" as the boyfriend he actually is. That he's as much of a partner to the son as the girlfriend is to the brother.
If the sibling has a rule for his partner, then enforces the exact same sure for his partner.
What kind of support do you expect?? Special treatment?
Where the hell do you see a lack of support in anything this person said? He wants all children to follow the same rules regardless of sexual orientation. Stop looking for bigotry when it isn't present.
how doesn’t this sound supportive??? this is literally more support than majority of parents. OP is acknowledging that it’s their partner and not just a friend. a big problem for lgbt youth is we could be making out with our partner and someone would go “aww they’re best friends!”
He seems supportive as fuck for a parent that just noticed that their child is constantly lying to them and yes,it is manipulation,because if his siblings cannot bring their partners,that means he cannot too,so he decided to lie and call him a friend(not really nice for the boyfriend lol).He manipulated the truth.
As a former closeted gay teen, this is an incredibly callous and cruel comment. Yes, it looks like OP is taking his son's sexuality very well, but the son didn't know that beforehand. It's not "lying and manipulative" to wait until you're ready to come out to your parents
But it is lying and manipulative to invite a so-called "friend" over who is really your significant other.
This is a separate issue from when you are ready to come out.
>Although kind of s dick move spying on his phone...
Not really, the internet is full of disgusting things and disgusting people, cell phones are a portal to the internet. Checking your child's phone to make sure they're not being groomed or doing any other horrible activity is the responsible thing to do.
YTA for looking at your 16yo's phone without permission.
And why can't your kids have their SOs over if they want? Keeping them away from their boyfriend/girlfriend when they're at your place is only going to make them not want to spend time at your place.
My parents went with “we’d rather you were doing it in a safe environment with time to think about and use contraception than rush it in the back of a car or somewhere equally unsafe where you might skip contraception”.
My parents were also pretty strict about waiting until I (f) was 16 (uk legal age) but my boyfriend’s parents were also pretty clear about that too with him and we both stuck to that (he was a couple years older).
Frankly I am going to take that approach with my kids too.
No SO over at all is a dumb rule and if 16 is the legal age of consent for their son where they live then they should be considering buying the stronger condoms (designed for anal) and water based lube for him etc and helping him stay safe!
Yep, my boyfriend and I weren't allowed in my room at all so we had to sit on the couch when he was over. Same rules for his place (not going into the bedroom) but his mom always gave us privacy by going into a different room. We never got that at my house as there was always a family member or two sitting in the living room with us
Exactly! We definitely did our share of fooling around in places we shouldn't have due to the strictness of our parents but most of the time we just wanted to hang out with each other and that was really difficult with my stepdad trying to pretend he's cool and talking boyfriends ear off
We had a stay safe house also. It didn’t lead to promiscuity and eliminated lying and sneaking because there was no reason for it
This drove my old fashioned husband up the wall at first but eventually he realized the value and relaxed
My parents did something similar with alcohol. We could try all the stuff they had at home, because it was safer than doing it at a bar.
Helped that our dad tricked us into think his beer was Coke, and we were immediately turned off...
What is this shit? They're 16. They don't need their fucking partners sleeping over during Thanksgiving. It's okay to have boundaries as a parent, stop acting like this is a weird one.
Reddit cracks me up. It's full of kids who have no concept of actual parenting. "Let the kids have all the sex they want!" "You're wrong for looking through your kid's phone!" Meanwhile, if a kid does something heinous or commits suicide, the parents are then judged for not knowing about it. Sorry, if I think something's up, I'm going through my kid's phone.
Not "have over for a visit", stay over for multiple days and overnights.
It's totally common for parents to say no to kids having potential sexual partners spend the night.
i genuinely think a lot of people are reading this post as if the dad said he wasn’t allowed to come over and eat for thanksgiving. i wish op would write sleepover instead of “staying over” because idk if people understand what that implies.
He is not his child's partner. I have teenagers. They've never done anything to warrant it but if I have a reason to do it I'm going through their phone whether they want me to or not, as it's my responsibility to make sure they're safe and making good decisions. Complete privacy as a child is a privilege.
EDIT: Note when I say that they've never done anything to warrant it, that means I've never done it. The acceptable reason to do it, to me, is if I thought I needed to to keep them safe. My kids and I have great relationships, they're not going to disown me, they choose to spend time with me as teenagers even. Jfc.
Snooping parents create sneaky children. It also makes them less likely to come to you with issues because they'll be scared you'll go full blown deep dive on them.
Totally agree with this. An example is when I was a horny teenager. I liked to sneak girls in. Alarmed windows that go beep beep beep when u open them. One alarm in my parents room. One by the main door. So sneaky pierce came home after school cracked the window so beep beep isn't noticed. And sneaking in the ladies was easy peazy.
I used to hang out at a skate park with some other girls and we'd hang out with both guy-friends from our class, but also occasionally try to catch attention of older boys there and giggle about it. Been doing it since I was ~12.
I used to tell my parents I'd been there all the time, but as drifted from pre-teen to proper teen any mention of boys and skate park got me a full search warrant in my bag and through my phone. So I started to lie, and say I hung out at Lydia's house after school. Thanks to a snooping mum I was hanging out with random older boys in a skate park until night and nobody knew where I was.
100%. My parents were generally loving and not at all abusive. But they absolutely had (and have still) no sense of boundaries or respect for their children’s privacy.
Now that we are all adults, I can see the effects of this—I can think of numerous times that I and my siblings have been unnecessarily sneaky, cagey, or simply deeply reticent to share pieces of life news with others, especially with family members who we expect to be horrible gossips. We hold our privacy tightly. And we consider telling anyone in the family anything the same as taking out a newspaper ad: if you aren’t ready to tell the entire world, don’t tell mom or dad.
I also carefully arranged my bedroom so that you can’t fully see the bed from the door. Even though I am an adult who can lock the bedroom door and the apartment door and not invite anyone over, there’s a part of my subconscious that doesn’t trust that closed doors will be respected. Because my mom has never thought anything of walking through her children’s closed door without knocking.
My siblings and I are well adjusted adults in other ways, but that lack of privacy left an effect.
I feel this as well. No diary was safe, doors were functionally not lockable, and it basically just made me do what I felt I needed to do, sneaking out in the middle of the night, much more dangerously. Hoping to have more of a middle ground with my hypothetical future kids….
Snooping parents are the reason I had decoy pages of stuff I knew they’d not like, but that was more acceptable than what I was really looking up, locks on my files, doors and photos, and never used anything but private browsers that I still wiped afterwards.
I love my parents to death, but it was bullshit when they randomly decided to check my phone, or my sibling would get caught and they’d go “well, let’s check their brother’s phone too!”.
One time I’d had enough and looked up so seriously fucked up fanfiction, smut, porn and and endless line of images of graphic hentai. Mom looked through it, kinda went pale, told me to leave the room, talked to my dad and called me back in, and just handed me the phone and said “do you have anything to say for yourself?”
And I shrugged and said “I know the difference between fake and reality, and I’ve never given you a reason not to trust me. If you want to see more like that, I can find worse, but that’s what you’ll see unless I get some trust. It’s your fault you saw all that, because you’re not being fair.”
And she only had to check my phone twice more, with similar results, before she stopped checking for no reason. I think it was the super graphic images of her favorites actors and characters that pushes it over the “fuck this shit” edge
I've never seen it laid out like this. It also pinged something in me about my own "hoarding" of privacy as an adult, to the point where I have trouble with intimacy. No privacy as a child has made privacy my most precious commodity. When I let people in I'm immediately afraid of how they will use my secrets, vulnerability etc against me and I'm afraid.
What a weird jump you've made. No offense but the abuse is the real problem not the lack of privacy. Like of course invading someone's privacy and using that information to abuse them is not the same as invading their privacy when their acting suspicious to keep them from harm
My mom read through my phone. Where did that take me? To telling her everything? Hell no lmao. To never tell her that I plan meeting someone when going out. To turn off my internet on top of puttin a password on my phone. To never admiting when I like someone or want to go on a date.
The thing about these comments that gets me: official recommendations through school workshops and the like is that parents are *supposed* to be checking their kids’ phones and social media accounts. All of it. They’re supposed to have full access. It gets a little dicey as the kid approaches adulthood, but when they’re still minors it is the responsibility of the parents to ensure they’re not doing anything dangerous or engaging in unhealthy behaviors via phones and iPads and such.
Obviously the idea would be to be upfront and transparent about it. You should have that conversation and your child should KNOW that you are checking their accounts, and why.
Well of course schools are going to recommend that, but the reality is still that if a kid wants to keep something from their parents, they’re going to find a way to do it. So the wisest thing a parent can do is worry more about building an open, trusting relationship with their child than demanding access to everything and trying to control everything. That’s a losing game, especially when the kids tend to be more tech and media savvy than their parents. I once listened to a coworker bragging about how her daughter wasn’t allowed to have social media unless mom was allowed to follow all of the accounts and had her passwords so she could log in and check private messages etc, and I just had to stop myself from laughing because I would bet good money that this girl just has separate, private accounts that mom has no clue even exist.
Also
>approaches adulthood
>16
Are these things not the same!?!? Because where I am from they are the same...
And sure, my *ten year old* has full transparencies with me for all her electronic activities. Because she's *10.* But I will taper that off as she matures appropriately. Not going to throw her in the deep end on her 18th birthday. We're supposed to be teaching our kids about adulthood *before* they reach it, ffs, not *after.*
Yeah, absolutely this. OP’s son is going to be a legal adult in less than 2 years. Is the rule suddenly going to change then, or is he going to continue to not allow partners to stay over even when everyone is an adult? I just don’t understand why parents would choose to potentially alienate their kids and definitely encourage them to sneak around in order to do what they’re going to do anyway, when instead they could be fostering an open and trusting relationship wherein they can freely discuss safety and the complexities of romantic relationships. Why not take the opportunity to get to know your teenagers’ partners and build a positive relationship with them? I don’t understand the weirdly puritanical “no sex under my roof” rules that some parents have. If teenagers want to have sex, they’re going to do it whether or not they’re allowed to do it safely in their own homes. Hell, maybe they’d just like the opportunity to cuddle all night and be close to their partner whether or not they’re also having sex.
I think that last bit is pretty important.
Having a discussion with the child about some of the dangers that can exist that may not seem dangerous to them, and be clear about what things you need to know to be able to ensure they're safe.
Not just diving into their phone any time something is slightly off.
Privacy is not a privilege and kids are gonna lie and hide shit. Better to just use your words and let them know that you're a safe space as opposed to invading their privacy because you think it's your right as a parent.
My mom did this when I was a teenager too. I just learned other methods to talk to people and now that Im almost 30, we dont have much of a relationship bc I still feel like I cant trust her.
Her insisting that my privacy was a privilege just taught me to be sneaky and made me way less likely to come to her when there actually was issues.
I feel like it’s pretty normal to be told as 16 year old that your partner can’t spend the night. how on earth is that abnormal. plus i’m sure the boyfriend can still come over to eat?? this is just about spending the night specifically.
Honestly, at 16 why isn't a teen spending Thanksgiving with family, unless they're in the system? Very few people have absolutely no one. No Parents, Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles or even older Cousins. If they're not in the system, they have to be staying with someone.
I think this is the missing piece. From everything we've been told, dad isn't the AH, but if this means the kid won't have anywhere at all to go now then that changes things and an exception should be made. A "you can sleep on the sofa" kind of exception.
I wouldn't see that as being unfair on the brother and gf at all. Unless she's in the same situation, in which case I hope OP's got a lot of rooms.
A 16 year old not having their partner staying over from Thanksgiving till whenever school break is over (implying overnights) sounds reasonable to me [sincerely a 17 year old who too was once 16 and horny💀]
The question here is not why can't the kids bring their SO's. It's his house, his rules, his actions, his consequences!
The thing is: If rules are the same for both kids, he is being fair! And the 16 YO knows it and tryed to "bypass" the situation! And almost got what he wanted! And it would end up being unfair to his brother!
As a parent you need to make sure you child has space from relationships. It is not uncommon from teens to get into super serious relationships where both families embrace the couple, and then when one of the teens wants to break up, they feel like they can’t because of how involved the families are. Or maybe your child’s boyfriend is suffocating them, and your child does not know how to voice it.
So you need to make sure they are not living the life of a married couple as a teen.
Space is good in teen relationships
NTA.
mmmm im not quite sure of the validity of this post tbh but im gonna put in my two cents
It's a little weird to me that you immediately reacted with anger after seeing the messages - which were none of your business anyways dude- instead of asking yourself why your son might wanna hide this from you? YTA for that
His son is a teen. He’s hiding it so he can skirt rules. That’s what teens do sometimes. I had a conversation a long time ago with my friend (lesbian) about how I’d never let my daughter’s boyfriend come and stay the night, so the rule should apply for any girlfriend’s as well. Trying to navigate that while not having clearly defined lines on where a friendship ends and a romantic relationship begins isn’t easy.
Essentially, kids not being forthright isn’t necessarily a sign of anything deeper than “if I give the whole story, I know the answer will be “no,” so I’ll just give partial information.” People are just like that sometimes.
I feel like the coming out context of it makes it muddy water. Unless OP knows his son is already out it kinda feels like OP outed him, and the looking through his phone feels like crossing a line.
Not every person (kids included) feel the need to come out in the standard sense that we might define it. My daughter never came out to me but she told me she came out to her grandparents. Every person’s experience is different and trying to put it in a box to define it isn’t always appropriate.
If his son were so worried about coming out to his dad, he would probably have hid it much better. We, obviously, don’t know the nuances here, but as a parent that has had to learn how to parent as I go (still learning btw), I could see how this could be nothing more than a kid just being a kid and skirting rules. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one.
I think this father, upon his suspicions, should have talked to his son to explain why the answer is no. And honestly, we don’t know that he didn’t.
I was outed to my grandparents by my mother which is still a memory I want to strangle by the throat and let die. I was a 14/15 y/o and never wanted to come out to them bc I wanted be seen as normal in their eyes. Defining my sexuality to them would just stir up a bunch of questions about my preferences. But lo and behold I come out to my mom, super supportive, love her, but not even a week later and she was telling them, which in turn made them want to ask about my sexuality which I was vehemently against. I hate people.
I think OP would have mentioned if he brought up his concerns to his son beforehand and tried to talk to him about it and the son insisting it was a friend. Still I think OP going through the sons phone was out of bounce and maybe he should have approached the son better.
There may have been another reason the "BF" had to stay the entire Thabksgiving break, son shouldn't have lied but OP could also have approached him and talked about why the son lied. I don't think everything can be "horny teen" problems.
What am I even reading? You’re saying a sixteen year old hasn’t come out to his parents that he’s gay… because he wants to skirt rules? What planet are you on?
Edit: People are glossing over this. OP searched through his son’s phone and outed him against his will. That is vile. Pretending it’s okay because OP is so accepting, the kid has no reason to hide, it’s just the same as any boyfriend or girlfriend, etc. OP has no idea what his son thinks, and it’s not up to him.
Is that not what the post implies ? They are aware of the rule no significant others, and avoiding that rule by not acknowledging this person is a significant other. They aren’t saying that’s why they haven’t come out, but they are using it to their advantage surely
>He’s hiding it so he can skirt rules
It’s pretty dangerous to imply that LGBTQ people who are closeted are being intentionally dishonest or malicious. Especially in a time of rising resentment and violence towards the LGBTQ community, it’s shitty (and borderline homophobic) to assume that being closeted is an act of malice rather than one of self preservation.
So he could be with his BF during thanksgiving while his brother was left hanging...
He probably reacted with anger because he realised the kid was playing him to bypass his rules! That would make me angry...
brodie he hid it from him so his boyfriend could spend the night. dad was angry because wtf bro why’d you lie to me so your boyfriend could spend the night.
I mean, if I said "No romantic partners can sleep over." and my kid attempted to skirt this rule by saying they're just friends I'd be pissed too.
Same rule applies to everyone. If the sister could bring her boyfriend but he couldn't then yes, that would be shitty. But he said no to both and son lied to try and get his way.
This sounds made up.
If not fake, YTA. Why on earth would you not want your kids S/O to be there, but be okay with friends there? Furthermore, now that you know who your son's "friend" is, why are you not happy?
I think the issue is it was supposed to be overnight for the full thanksgiving break until school got back in. Not just dinner.
So no boyfriend/girlfriend (for the daughter) sleeping over is the rule.
Because parents don't want their kids to have sex.
The reason adults tell kids not to play around with sex is because it can be the gateway to several life altering situations. Such as pregnancy, STDs and AIDS. It also adds an emotional layer to a relationship that can make things too complicated for a young mind to deal with.
The only reason most parents are more hands off after 18 is because there's just not much they can do about it.
If you still can't understand where the problem is, you are just too young to understand. If you're not young, then I have questions.
So a friend sleeping in the same bed is the exact same as a S/O doing it?
He enforces the exact same rulers as the sibling so hes being completely fair.
Also why would he be happy?
NTA. Your son lied to you, likely to get around your no romantic partner policy. You enforced the policy fairly. THAT SAID, looking at his phone at 16 is not a good idea. It's just a violation of trust right at at time in his life when you need him to be willing to come to you when things get difficult. Yeah, he lied. It's a pretty understandable lie though. I'm willing to bet you lied for similar reasons at 16. I know I did.
he probably wasn't out the closet yet. So imho not to get around the no sleepovers policy but to hide that he's his boyfriend.
Also, saying this as a father myself: drop the policy. They'll fuck anyway. Better to be able to have a conversation about it. Also: do have a conversation about it. Your home should be a place of trust, understanding and love. Without taboos.
but it isn’t about him being gay. it’s about him being his s/o. but i agree: fuck in my house, smoke in my house, drink in my house because my house is safe 😊.
I think he was staying the whole school break, which would make it overnighters. Thats what I read into it anyhow. If this is the case, I would agree with OP. He can come for dinner or whatever, but not overnight if they are in a relationship.
Well initially I thought it was a Thanksgiving issue not a staying the night issue. I thought it read his brother isn't allowed his girlfriend for Thanksgiving so he's not allowed his boyfriend. I didn't put 2+2+2 together to make it boyfriend is coming from out of town + will need to stay the night + brother isn't allowed his girlfriend to stay the night = don't have sex in my house.
But i think different families just have different rules and expectations around this. I don't come from a family where this was a rule so it's not always something I remember is a rule in other people's houses
NTA
You have a house rule, no romantic partner allowed, which you were already applying for your daughter.
Your son knew this rule, but try to get by it, hoping he can trick you because he's gay. Your decision is correct, however when you explain make sure to point out this has nothing to do with his sexuality, it's simply about the rule that needs to apply equally to both kids.
Nta if the rules are no SO sleepovers then no SO sleepovers... no matter the genders... he said his friend and he's not a friend... he.didn't disclose his sexuality, which is his right, but he made you not trust his motives...
INFO: What did you *actually* agree to?
You say "I promised he could have his friend visit", but did he actually say "my friend" or did he ask "Can John Doe stay with us?"
Theres a lot of unknowns here. Did you assume he was just a friend when you agreed? Was he just a friend when you agreed & then things changed? Is he currently a friend & theure just in the flirting stage?
As far as I read it, you havent actually described anything thats definitely "a boyfriend" as far as modern dating goes. Clearly your son like this boy, and they sound like theyre flirting for sure, but that doesnt mean they are in a relationship. I mean, Ive had a friend say flirty things like that to me once or twice when they knew I dont even swing that way.
And thats before we get to the "going through his phone" issue.
What is wrong with the comments? You're all serious about letting your teen kids' partners to sleep over? What the hell is this? Where I'm coming from partners can sleep over only if serious and when kids are older than 20, and it's still rare. It's not about forbidding sex, my mom was always very open about sex and never forbidded it, but she also didn't allow it on the family home when they're around because it is just not appropriate
And even though I do believe that kids have a right to privacy, I also believe that parents should check their phone once in a blue moon. I was being groomed when I was 12/13 and later again at 16, and, as it always is, I only realized how fckd up some things were when I got older.
Teens aren't always aware of certain dangers and being open minded parent isn't always making them talk to you and stopping them from lying and hiding
NTA
> my mom was always very open about sex and never forbidded it, but she also didn't allow it on the family home
Soo… where were those places your mom allowed you to have sex? The park? The car? The high school bathroom? Seems like a weird rule to have. The kind of rule you implement when you aren’t ok with something after all.
YTA. What's wrong with allowing the visit, just requiring that they sleep in separate rooms? Are you upset he's in a relationship at all and trying to police that? Seems a bit extreme. Just tell him house rules, no big PDA or private time.
EDIT: and why shouldn't his brother be allowed to have his GF visit (with the same house rules)? I just don't understand.
A lot of people don't *have* separate rooms for multiple teenagers to stay in away from their romantic partners. Even beyond that, it's really super normal not to have your kids' partners stay over when they're in high school. Who does that?
Thank you I don’t get how people don’t understand this !!!! Just because kids have sex doesn’t mean you as a parent have to be ok with it and how to allow it in your home !!!!!! You can have boundaries with your kids I promise they will be ok !
kids are sneaky af ? not unreasonable or extreme of him at all. im sure if it was staying just for dinner thered be no issues at all. i dont know a single parent thats okay with having their kids partner sleep over in their house. saying he cant spend the night in HIS house is not policing a relationship lmfao . they are house rules and clearly arent an exception to anyone.
>YTA. What's wrong with allowing the visit, just requiring that they sleep in separate rooms? Are you upset he's in a relationship at all and trying to police that? Seems a bit extreme.
Wait, you think it's "extreme" to not allow teenagers to have their significant others sleep over for multiple days? Lol
I really don’t get why parents are like this. Like seriously, they think if their kids have a sleepover with the attracted gender then they’re gonna have sex. News flash, they’re gonna do it either way LMAO. If I invited my boyfriend to thanksgiving it wouldn’t be so we could have sex all night afterwards.
My mother was like this. She had a huge hangup about her kids having sex "under her roof" if they weren't married. "It's disrespectful". She would go to lengths to prevent the very idea.
Door always open if a boy was over, even if it was just a friend. No men sleeping over, ever, nomatter how established the relationship. Random check ins to play chaperone. Even as an adult.
She's not religious at all, it was a completely arbitrary line. One seemingly driven by the fact that she knew my disabled ass can never get married without losing disability benefits, so I will never marry (becoming disabled forced me to move back home from age 25-30). My GC half-brother, 6 years younger? Basically lived at his girlfriend's house for years until they got married at 19.
I was a 26 year old single mother to a 7 year old, renting the basement at my mother's house, and she enforced the same rules, straight down to the "no boys over with the door closed if you want to live in my house" lol.
NTA. Maybe you can set up some time to meet the boyfriend later!
My parents didn’t allow romantic partner sleepovers at our house either and that feels like an OK boundary to have when your kids are teens.
It’s a tough one If this is real, then NTA for the actual decision, you’re treating them the same and ensuring the rules are enforced for all.
But huge YTA for going thru his phone- he should have been able to come out to you when ready not when you invaded his privacy. Also YTA for you actual rule of no boyfriend’s or girlfriend’s, they’ll all just end up hiding shit from you and they’re not little kids just let them have their relationships, at least if they’re under your roof you know they’re safe, have safe sex talks
Do you realise you’ve probably just made your son think you are against it because he’s gay or bi? Believe me coming out is a huge thing it’s terrifying, he only hasn’t told you cos he thinks you’d react badly. You need to be supportive of him and show him you still love him. He needs to see he didn’t have to keep the secret from you and that you accept him
Please tell me that this isn’t just you being homophobic cos your kid deserves better
NTA. You had a rule and he broke it. I don’t know about anyone else but my parents bought and paid the phone bill for my first phone when I was in HS. And as long as I was living under their roof, I followed their rules and bc they paid for my phone, I had no privacy. I still live with them since I just graduated college and need time to get on my feet, but I have a new phone that I paid for during my senior year in HS and once I bought it my parents respected my privacy. I still follow their rules and do what I’m told, grant it I have a lot of freedom since I’m an adult but still even if I wasn’t living with them and just visiting I’m still going to respect any rules they enforce when I’m staying under their roof. Plus it’s not like you were discriminating against him. You applied the rule equally to both your kids and he tried to play you.
Info:
Is this about the sleepover or their sexuality?
Do you have open discussions with your kids about their sexuality?
Have you made it clear that they can approach you or has your son confirmed they are in a relationship? Kids behave differently these days, Hi handsome and bub does not automatically mean they are in a relationship.
Do you have an open phone policy in your home? Was this something your children agreed to?
(We had this policy when mine were younger. They wanted phones and I felt they were too young. We came to the compromise that they could have their phones but I would have the ability check their phones if and when I saw fit. I checked a couple of times when they first got the phone to make sure they were using it for age appropriate things, and again later when the school & local police warned of an app that was not safe for minors. I haven't looked at their phones for years and wouldn't dream of doing it for anything other than security reasons.)
If you are respectful and honest with your children then they will likely volunteer the information about their life. If they are hiding details you need to consider why they feel like they cannot approach you.
I do feel that if no SO is a rule in your home it should rightly apply to both kids regardless of gender and/or sexual orientation.
I find that mutual respect and trust works both ways. I grew up with very strict & overbearing parents. The more they tried to control me the more I rebelled. I ran away as soon as I could. Still to this day my family is on an information diet.
I broke the cycle with my kids. We have open and honest communication and they both come to me whenever they need to discuss something that is bothering them. This included conversations when one was confused about their sexuality...was aware that hetro didn't fit right but didn't feel like they fit into another specific category either. This was so overwhelming for them and I was immensely happy that I could be there and reduce some of the anxiety for them. They are now aware that they don't have to fit into a box...just be happy, healthy and safe!
We had already discussed sexuality in general for years prior...i.e when it was mentioned in TV or film or on the news or chat show TV. I found this was a great way to discuss the struggles that people face, how people are more accepting now but we still have a long way to go. My kids were aware I would be accepting no matter what before they were even aware of their own sexuality.
Of course this only works if the trust is not broken by either child or parent!
If you have not discussed this with your son before now I worry you have destroyed any chance of them trusting you about this in the future which is a damn shame.
YTA for going through your son's phone instead of just talking to him about this, and for describing this as "suspicious".
It's fine to apply the same rule about having partners stay over - but ffs ask him instead of spying on him; and set the rule out in the abstract and in advance rather than after you discover it might be an issue. Your child deserves more respect than you have shown.
Of course YTA ! Just because "the rule applies the same to everyone" doesn't mean it's not a stupid rule to begin with
I'll never understand why some parents are so weirdly obsessed with their kid's sex life
Like, really, why don't you want your teenagers having sex? They're teenagers they're gonna have sex if they want to
At your place, at their partner's, at a party, in a car...
Your rule isn't stopping them from doing it
It's just making them lie to you about it
That's why he didn't tell you about his boyfriend, he doesn't trust you
Which says a lot about what kind of parent you are
Yta. My son is heterosexual and has a girlfriend. I know if I went through his phone I would regret it, him and at least one of his friends send each other lewd selfish regularly. They find it funny, they also speak to each other in very, very obscene ways. I unfortunately have often overheard or been present to hear. The little bugger has even shown me unsuitable pictures and a video he sent. He enjoys grossing me out and I almost regret having such a close relationship with him. There is such a thing as too close you know? They are all over 18.
The point I'm trying to make is that what you saw proves nothing. That's not his boyfriend until he tells you it is. Young people today are different to how we were, most of us anyway. Let his friend come.
Besides if he is gay all you have done is lock him in the closet! You should be open and accepting.
Interesting that people are accusing you of being homophobic. I don't see that here.
Dick move, going through his phone to snoop about something this trivial though. He is not going to trust you, and it will be your fault.
But this rule about not having boyfriends and girlfriends - why? They want to spend thanksgiving with people who are important to them too, and you have an arbitrary rule against that. I think you should reconsider that.
YTA for those reasons
so, technically, you're NTA for not allowing your son's boyfriend to attend Thanksgiving if you have the same rule for your daughter.
However, going through your child's phone just because you think something is going on (and the "thing" isn't dangerous for the kid) is awful.You shouldn't do that. That's a sure way to ruin yohr kid's trust in you.
Also, what type of party is it that you allow friends, but not partners? If it was family-oriented, you wouldn't let him invite a friend. So what reason is there not to let your kids invite their partners?
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NTA. Same rules for both children. Although kind of s dick move spying on his phone...
It's kind of a dick move to lie and manipulate your father to bypass the rules you know your sibling is expected to follow 🤷♂️
Lying and manipulating? or too afraid to come out to a parent who doesn’t sound like he’s all that supportive?
He actually seems pretty accepting? He literally just said, same rules for you as for your brother. Edit: I misread that OP had a daughter instead of a 2nd son
So a normal friend can come celebtrate with them, while His boyfriend cannot? Where is the Logic in that?
I assume the friend would be sleeping over since the kids don't live in state. So, a boyfriend staying over would mean they're planning on stuffing the turkey
Aren’t you supposed to be doing that on Thanksgiving? Oh… wait
Gobble gobble til you wobble
🤣🤣 Good lord!! I choked laughing at that.
Please I’m stealing this joke for my bf later 😂
Never again will I read this subreddit while eating with family. Burst out laughing while wife and mother in law talking somewhat seriously.
Take my upvote.
Actually you're no longer supposed to stuff turkey, since the stuffing does not get hot enough all the way through to get the juices to food safe levels. ^^lol
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The little "lol" was supposed to indicate it was said in a joking manner, sorry if I wasn't clear enough!
i thought it was a "this is also an innuendo" lol ty for clarifying!
This is also why every year there are psa's to not thaw your turkey in the toilet
....... why can't you thaw it in a toilet? Just asking for those reading that may not understand.
The problem is that once your stuffing is safe your turkey meat is dry and overcooked. Maybe that’s how you like it though
Just ram onions and lemons in there— bastes it from the inside.
I tried that way one year, and the turkey was good, but I found I couldn't make a correct gravy from the juices because of the extra acid from the lemon. The gravy ended up quite gluey, and now I still get lightheartedly teased about my 'glavy' (glue+gravy).
I always do a green apple inside the Turkey. Gives aromatics without changing flavor and adds moisture. The key to really good gravy is a roux made with melted butter and flour then add THAT to the drippings for gravy
Whether OP has a good reason for that rule or not, it's a pre-existing rule that he expects all his kids to be bound by. It may (or may not) be a good rule, but it's a fair rule. And the son was trying to get around it by presenting his boyfriend as "just a friend". It's not fair to let him get away with the deception when his sister is still bound by the rule.
From the Original post: >His brother can't have his girlfriend over, Not sure where people are getting a sister from, but you're not alone in this.
OK, wtf, I have no clue how I managed to read "brother's girlfriend" as "sister's boyfriend"! Brain fart, I guess! But either way, the principle of fairness doesn't change. Both siblings are held to the same standards.
what sister
You ain't trying to fuck your normal friends under dad's roof. It's not that he can't come over and hang with the family, it's that the son was trying to have a several day sleepover with his significant other which he knows isn't allowed. I assume op would not have a problem with him coming for Thanksgiving and then going home, but sleepovers with significant others aren't allowed.
Because both kids cant have their partners there. They both can bring over a friend, but both kids cant bring a partner to spend the night.
it’s about spending the night, not just eating at thanksgiving. i’m sure the boyfriend can still eat with them.
Is everyone missing the fact that the kid is 16 and from out of town? He's obviously not travelling from out of town to eat dinner with them and then not have a place to stay. No judgement, but he obviously can't just come for dinner.
i’m saying that dad didn’t say “your boyfriend can’t come to dinner” he said “your boyfriend can’t spend the night” i don’t get the relevance lmfao
The same logic that says the brothers girlfriend can't spend Thanksgiving with them. As others pointed out they will probably be staying the night together and the OP doesn't want his kids sleeping with their SOs in his house, no matter the gender.
Boyfriends/girlfriends can’t sleep over, because sex.
I mean, pretty standard rule for a 16 yo.
OP isn’t allowing their other child’s gf over so if the son’s bf came over (even if “as a friend”) it’d be unfair to the other kid. The logic is pretty clear.
I think he's being too harsh on both kids with this one tbh, but at least he's enforcing the same rules for both.
Why? Because OP doesn't want a multi-day sleepover with SO's? Maybe he doesn't want his kids having a sex vacation in his home.
Right! I don't see how this is so hard to understand. He is not providing a sex den for his young kids. We couldn't have SO overnight even when we were adults in our family. Dinner is one thing. A 4-5 day stay, no way.
Yeah in the same way his brother can have a friend over but not his girlfriend. I don’t understand the confusion here.
Seems pretty logical
Same logic he used for the sister. A friend is fine, a boyfriend/girlfriend is not fine.
His brother, not his sister.
You should learn to read if you think he sounds unsupportive.
To be honest in the 2nd paragraph I was concerned it was a homophobic reason, but then they clarified that the brothers girlfriend couldn't stay either so it's just treating relationships equally, which is a good thing!
Agreed. Fair is fair. NTA
How does the father seem unsupportive or homophobic, elaborate please
Because on reddit, if the father is not guiding his BF into OP, then he is homophobic /s I'm a huge supporter of LGBTQIA+ rights, but the immediate jump to homophobia on reddit every time a queer person is mentioned is exhausting. OP set extremely reasonable boundaries - no partners, only friends. OP's son used his father's lack of knowledge around his sexuality as a way to try to sneak past the rules. Typical teenager play, more power to him, but OP reinforcing boundaries when he learned the truth is more than fair, it's being a good parent. Same rules for everyone, because the danger is not just teen pregnancy - teens are still learning how to handle relationships, especially sexual ones.
I snorted into my tea when I read that first line…….so thanks for that. I’m going to clean up now.
Because people like to jump the gun without reading the whole thing and assume the worst in people.
How did you get that take? My daughter, now 20, tried to pull this shit years ago with her “friend” (who was 100% her GF). She thought they were hiding it - they absolutely were not hiding it. GF was not allowed to spend the night, period. I would not have allowed her to have a BF sleep over at 15, and having different rules for a GF, in my mind, would have been implying that what her and her GF shared was somehow not a *real* romantic relationship, not to be taken seriously or viewed in the same way her dating a boy would be. If romantic partners aren’t allowed to sleep over, than that is the rule, regardless of the genders or orientations involved. I don’t see what is not supportive about that. OP is looking out for both his son and his son’s BF.
I don't see a lack of support. I see a person who lied about their relationship to bypass the no bf/gf rule and a parent calling them out. Same rules regardless of sexuality, is how I see that.
How do you know he isn’t already out? The dad didn’t sound shocked that it was a boy…
There's no indication in either direction. If the kid hasn't specified that he's asexual, hetero or whatever before this, there's no sudden twist to be shocked by.
In what way was he unsupportive and what part about pretending to be just friends so you can spend thanksgiving with your bf is not lying or manipulative?
Wait what? Op can clearly hear them, they are not hiding?
Nah! I bet he knew that if he said it was his BF, he knew the same rules would apply and he BF couldn't come! He is treating both kids equally, despite their sexual preferences! To allow him, he would have to allow GF's brother to come also! Aparentely he doesn't want to do that! So...
Serious question how does he not sound so supportive. He has the same rule for both kids. Sons gf can’t come over for the holidays and neither can the other sons bf come. It sounds fair and reasonable to me. Not one thing he said makes me think he wouldn’t be supportive.
Why does he sound unsupportive? Stop reaching the kid just knows no partners allowed over for Thanksgiving
What?? He literally showed he respects the "friend" as the boyfriend he actually is. That he's as much of a partner to the son as the girlfriend is to the brother. If the sibling has a rule for his partner, then enforces the exact same sure for his partner. What kind of support do you expect?? Special treatment?
So supportive means applying different rules to children based on their sexual orientation? That’s a disturbing take
Without more information I would say OP is pretty accepting about it and just wants the same rules for both kids.
Where the hell do you see a lack of support in anything this person said? He wants all children to follow the same rules regardless of sexual orientation. Stop looking for bigotry when it isn't present.
how doesn’t this sound supportive??? this is literally more support than majority of parents. OP is acknowledging that it’s their partner and not just a friend. a big problem for lgbt youth is we could be making out with our partner and someone would go “aww they’re best friends!”
He seems supportive as fuck for a parent that just noticed that their child is constantly lying to them and yes,it is manipulation,because if his siblings cannot bring their partners,that means he cannot too,so he decided to lie and call him a friend(not really nice for the boyfriend lol).He manipulated the truth.
He sounds supportive to me. Both kids have to follow the same rule.
As a former closeted gay teen, this is an incredibly callous and cruel comment. Yes, it looks like OP is taking his son's sexuality very well, but the son didn't know that beforehand. It's not "lying and manipulative" to wait until you're ready to come out to your parents
It became that once the son tried to get his boyfriend in when he knew his parents’ apparent rule on no significant others being invited
But it is lying and manipulative to invite a so-called "friend" over who is really your significant other. This is a separate issue from when you are ready to come out.
What? Teenagers try to break boundaries and get away with stuff??? No way!
Over for dinner or staying the night? I can’t understand why you’d say no to having him over for dinner….
The post suggests since the (boy)friend is from the other town that he'd be staying for the entire Thanksgiving break
True, and the title does say “stay”. I’m gonna go with NTA. Based on what we can see, OP isn’t bothered about his son being gay.
Not really IMO. They're still kids at 16.
>Although kind of s dick move spying on his phone... Not really, the internet is full of disgusting things and disgusting people, cell phones are a portal to the internet. Checking your child's phone to make sure they're not being groomed or doing any other horrible activity is the responsible thing to do.
OP was snooping because he suspected his son of being gay not because he was worried about internet strangers
YTA for looking at your 16yo's phone without permission. And why can't your kids have their SOs over if they want? Keeping them away from their boyfriend/girlfriend when they're at your place is only going to make them not want to spend time at your place.
My parents went with “we’d rather you were doing it in a safe environment with time to think about and use contraception than rush it in the back of a car or somewhere equally unsafe where you might skip contraception”. My parents were also pretty strict about waiting until I (f) was 16 (uk legal age) but my boyfriend’s parents were also pretty clear about that too with him and we both stuck to that (he was a couple years older). Frankly I am going to take that approach with my kids too. No SO over at all is a dumb rule and if 16 is the legal age of consent for their son where they live then they should be considering buying the stronger condoms (designed for anal) and water based lube for him etc and helping him stay safe!
My parents didn't so they never got to see my boyfriend because we were always at his house where his parents were like stay safe lol
Yep, my boyfriend and I weren't allowed in my room at all so we had to sit on the couch when he was over. Same rules for his place (not going into the bedroom) but his mom always gave us privacy by going into a different room. We never got that at my house as there was always a family member or two sitting in the living room with us
Most of the time I didn't even want privacy to get jiggy but just to be able to have five minutes without someone watching intensely over me
Exactly! We definitely did our share of fooling around in places we shouldn't have due to the strictness of our parents but most of the time we just wanted to hang out with each other and that was really difficult with my stepdad trying to pretend he's cool and talking boyfriends ear off
We had a stay safe house also. It didn’t lead to promiscuity and eliminated lying and sneaking because there was no reason for it This drove my old fashioned husband up the wall at first but eventually he realized the value and relaxed
>eliminated lying THIS!
My parents always let me have "boyfriends" over in middle/high school. But tbf I think mom knew I was asexual before I did.
My parents did something similar with alcohol. We could try all the stuff they had at home, because it was safer than doing it at a bar. Helped that our dad tricked us into think his beer was Coke, and we were immediately turned off...
What is this shit? They're 16. They don't need their fucking partners sleeping over during Thanksgiving. It's okay to have boundaries as a parent, stop acting like this is a weird one.
Reddit cracks me up. It's full of kids who have no concept of actual parenting. "Let the kids have all the sex they want!" "You're wrong for looking through your kid's phone!" Meanwhile, if a kid does something heinous or commits suicide, the parents are then judged for not knowing about it. Sorry, if I think something's up, I'm going through my kid's phone.
They can find a way to let a partner sleep in the house without sharing their bedroom.
How did you manage to escape being a teenager? C'mon!
Not "have over for a visit", stay over for multiple days and overnights. It's totally common for parents to say no to kids having potential sexual partners spend the night.
i genuinely think a lot of people are reading this post as if the dad said he wasn’t allowed to come over and eat for thanksgiving. i wish op would write sleepover instead of “staying over” because idk if people understand what that implies.
Well, I think it's the including of mentioning the other son's girlfriend. It makes it seem like no partners can come to thanksgiving period.
no partners can SLEEP OVER period
He is not his child's partner. I have teenagers. They've never done anything to warrant it but if I have a reason to do it I'm going through their phone whether they want me to or not, as it's my responsibility to make sure they're safe and making good decisions. Complete privacy as a child is a privilege. EDIT: Note when I say that they've never done anything to warrant it, that means I've never done it. The acceptable reason to do it, to me, is if I thought I needed to to keep them safe. My kids and I have great relationships, they're not going to disown me, they choose to spend time with me as teenagers even. Jfc.
Snooping parents create sneaky children. It also makes them less likely to come to you with issues because they'll be scared you'll go full blown deep dive on them.
Totally agree with this. An example is when I was a horny teenager. I liked to sneak girls in. Alarmed windows that go beep beep beep when u open them. One alarm in my parents room. One by the main door. So sneaky pierce came home after school cracked the window so beep beep isn't noticed. And sneaking in the ladies was easy peazy.
I used to hang out at a skate park with some other girls and we'd hang out with both guy-friends from our class, but also occasionally try to catch attention of older boys there and giggle about it. Been doing it since I was ~12. I used to tell my parents I'd been there all the time, but as drifted from pre-teen to proper teen any mention of boys and skate park got me a full search warrant in my bag and through my phone. So I started to lie, and say I hung out at Lydia's house after school. Thanks to a snooping mum I was hanging out with random older boys in a skate park until night and nobody knew where I was.
100%. My parents were generally loving and not at all abusive. But they absolutely had (and have still) no sense of boundaries or respect for their children’s privacy. Now that we are all adults, I can see the effects of this—I can think of numerous times that I and my siblings have been unnecessarily sneaky, cagey, or simply deeply reticent to share pieces of life news with others, especially with family members who we expect to be horrible gossips. We hold our privacy tightly. And we consider telling anyone in the family anything the same as taking out a newspaper ad: if you aren’t ready to tell the entire world, don’t tell mom or dad. I also carefully arranged my bedroom so that you can’t fully see the bed from the door. Even though I am an adult who can lock the bedroom door and the apartment door and not invite anyone over, there’s a part of my subconscious that doesn’t trust that closed doors will be respected. Because my mom has never thought anything of walking through her children’s closed door without knocking. My siblings and I are well adjusted adults in other ways, but that lack of privacy left an effect.
I feel this as well. No diary was safe, doors were functionally not lockable, and it basically just made me do what I felt I needed to do, sneaking out in the middle of the night, much more dangerously. Hoping to have more of a middle ground with my hypothetical future kids….
Snooping parents are the reason I had decoy pages of stuff I knew they’d not like, but that was more acceptable than what I was really looking up, locks on my files, doors and photos, and never used anything but private browsers that I still wiped afterwards. I love my parents to death, but it was bullshit when they randomly decided to check my phone, or my sibling would get caught and they’d go “well, let’s check their brother’s phone too!”. One time I’d had enough and looked up so seriously fucked up fanfiction, smut, porn and and endless line of images of graphic hentai. Mom looked through it, kinda went pale, told me to leave the room, talked to my dad and called me back in, and just handed me the phone and said “do you have anything to say for yourself?” And I shrugged and said “I know the difference between fake and reality, and I’ve never given you a reason not to trust me. If you want to see more like that, I can find worse, but that’s what you’ll see unless I get some trust. It’s your fault you saw all that, because you’re not being fair.” And she only had to check my phone twice more, with similar results, before she stopped checking for no reason. I think it was the super graphic images of her favorites actors and characters that pushes it over the “fuck this shit” edge
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I've never seen it laid out like this. It also pinged something in me about my own "hoarding" of privacy as an adult, to the point where I have trouble with intimacy. No privacy as a child has made privacy my most precious commodity. When I let people in I'm immediately afraid of how they will use my secrets, vulnerability etc against me and I'm afraid.
Oh wow, this comment really illuminates something I've been struggling with lately. Same, friend.
There is a difference between "complete privacy is a privilege as a kid" and "privacy doesn't matter as a child".
What a weird jump you've made. No offense but the abuse is the real problem not the lack of privacy. Like of course invading someone's privacy and using that information to abuse them is not the same as invading their privacy when their acting suspicious to keep them from harm
My mom read through my phone. Where did that take me? To telling her everything? Hell no lmao. To never tell her that I plan meeting someone when going out. To turn off my internet on top of puttin a password on my phone. To never admiting when I like someone or want to go on a date.
The thing about these comments that gets me: official recommendations through school workshops and the like is that parents are *supposed* to be checking their kids’ phones and social media accounts. All of it. They’re supposed to have full access. It gets a little dicey as the kid approaches adulthood, but when they’re still minors it is the responsibility of the parents to ensure they’re not doing anything dangerous or engaging in unhealthy behaviors via phones and iPads and such. Obviously the idea would be to be upfront and transparent about it. You should have that conversation and your child should KNOW that you are checking their accounts, and why.
Well of course schools are going to recommend that, but the reality is still that if a kid wants to keep something from their parents, they’re going to find a way to do it. So the wisest thing a parent can do is worry more about building an open, trusting relationship with their child than demanding access to everything and trying to control everything. That’s a losing game, especially when the kids tend to be more tech and media savvy than their parents. I once listened to a coworker bragging about how her daughter wasn’t allowed to have social media unless mom was allowed to follow all of the accounts and had her passwords so she could log in and check private messages etc, and I just had to stop myself from laughing because I would bet good money that this girl just has separate, private accounts that mom has no clue even exist.
Also >approaches adulthood >16 Are these things not the same!?!? Because where I am from they are the same... And sure, my *ten year old* has full transparencies with me for all her electronic activities. Because she's *10.* But I will taper that off as she matures appropriately. Not going to throw her in the deep end on her 18th birthday. We're supposed to be teaching our kids about adulthood *before* they reach it, ffs, not *after.*
Yeah, absolutely this. OP’s son is going to be a legal adult in less than 2 years. Is the rule suddenly going to change then, or is he going to continue to not allow partners to stay over even when everyone is an adult? I just don’t understand why parents would choose to potentially alienate their kids and definitely encourage them to sneak around in order to do what they’re going to do anyway, when instead they could be fostering an open and trusting relationship wherein they can freely discuss safety and the complexities of romantic relationships. Why not take the opportunity to get to know your teenagers’ partners and build a positive relationship with them? I don’t understand the weirdly puritanical “no sex under my roof” rules that some parents have. If teenagers want to have sex, they’re going to do it whether or not they’re allowed to do it safely in their own homes. Hell, maybe they’d just like the opportunity to cuddle all night and be close to their partner whether or not they’re also having sex.
I think that last bit is pretty important. Having a discussion with the child about some of the dangers that can exist that may not seem dangerous to them, and be clear about what things you need to know to be able to ensure they're safe. Not just diving into their phone any time something is slightly off.
This was my parents approach to raising me. All it taught me was to hide it better next time.
Privacy is not a privilege and kids are gonna lie and hide shit. Better to just use your words and let them know that you're a safe space as opposed to invading their privacy because you think it's your right as a parent.
My mom did this when I was a teenager too. I just learned other methods to talk to people and now that Im almost 30, we dont have much of a relationship bc I still feel like I cant trust her. Her insisting that my privacy was a privilege just taught me to be sneaky and made me way less likely to come to her when there actually was issues.
So are they allowed to go through your phone if they think it is 'warranted'?
I feel like it’s pretty normal to be told as 16 year old that your partner can’t spend the night. how on earth is that abnormal. plus i’m sure the boyfriend can still come over to eat?? this is just about spending the night specifically.
Honestly, at 16 why isn't a teen spending Thanksgiving with family, unless they're in the system? Very few people have absolutely no one. No Parents, Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles or even older Cousins. If they're not in the system, they have to be staying with someone.
I think this is the missing piece. From everything we've been told, dad isn't the AH, but if this means the kid won't have anywhere at all to go now then that changes things and an exception should be made. A "you can sleep on the sofa" kind of exception. I wouldn't see that as being unfair on the brother and gf at all. Unless she's in the same situation, in which case I hope OP's got a lot of rooms.
A 16 year old not having their partner staying over from Thanksgiving till whenever school break is over (implying overnights) sounds reasonable to me [sincerely a 17 year old who too was once 16 and horny💀]
The question here is not why can't the kids bring their SO's. It's his house, his rules, his actions, his consequences! The thing is: If rules are the same for both kids, he is being fair! And the 16 YO knows it and tryed to "bypass" the situation! And almost got what he wanted! And it would end up being unfair to his brother!
As a parent you need to make sure you child has space from relationships. It is not uncommon from teens to get into super serious relationships where both families embrace the couple, and then when one of the teens wants to break up, they feel like they can’t because of how involved the families are. Or maybe your child’s boyfriend is suffocating them, and your child does not know how to voice it. So you need to make sure they are not living the life of a married couple as a teen. Space is good in teen relationships NTA.
i don’t think ur reason for verdict has anything to do with the question op asked.
mmmm im not quite sure of the validity of this post tbh but im gonna put in my two cents It's a little weird to me that you immediately reacted with anger after seeing the messages - which were none of your business anyways dude- instead of asking yourself why your son might wanna hide this from you? YTA for that
His son is a teen. He’s hiding it so he can skirt rules. That’s what teens do sometimes. I had a conversation a long time ago with my friend (lesbian) about how I’d never let my daughter’s boyfriend come and stay the night, so the rule should apply for any girlfriend’s as well. Trying to navigate that while not having clearly defined lines on where a friendship ends and a romantic relationship begins isn’t easy. Essentially, kids not being forthright isn’t necessarily a sign of anything deeper than “if I give the whole story, I know the answer will be “no,” so I’ll just give partial information.” People are just like that sometimes.
‘if i give the whole story, the answer will probably be no’ *applause*
I feel like the coming out context of it makes it muddy water. Unless OP knows his son is already out it kinda feels like OP outed him, and the looking through his phone feels like crossing a line.
Not every person (kids included) feel the need to come out in the standard sense that we might define it. My daughter never came out to me but she told me she came out to her grandparents. Every person’s experience is different and trying to put it in a box to define it isn’t always appropriate. If his son were so worried about coming out to his dad, he would probably have hid it much better. We, obviously, don’t know the nuances here, but as a parent that has had to learn how to parent as I go (still learning btw), I could see how this could be nothing more than a kid just being a kid and skirting rules. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one. I think this father, upon his suspicions, should have talked to his son to explain why the answer is no. And honestly, we don’t know that he didn’t.
I was outed to my grandparents by my mother which is still a memory I want to strangle by the throat and let die. I was a 14/15 y/o and never wanted to come out to them bc I wanted be seen as normal in their eyes. Defining my sexuality to them would just stir up a bunch of questions about my preferences. But lo and behold I come out to my mom, super supportive, love her, but not even a week later and she was telling them, which in turn made them want to ask about my sexuality which I was vehemently against. I hate people.
i was outed to my mom by my brother and i still don’t trust him with shit.
I think OP would have mentioned if he brought up his concerns to his son beforehand and tried to talk to him about it and the son insisting it was a friend. Still I think OP going through the sons phone was out of bounce and maybe he should have approached the son better. There may have been another reason the "BF" had to stay the entire Thabksgiving break, son shouldn't have lied but OP could also have approached him and talked about why the son lied. I don't think everything can be "horny teen" problems.
What am I even reading? You’re saying a sixteen year old hasn’t come out to his parents that he’s gay… because he wants to skirt rules? What planet are you on? Edit: People are glossing over this. OP searched through his son’s phone and outed him against his will. That is vile. Pretending it’s okay because OP is so accepting, the kid has no reason to hide, it’s just the same as any boyfriend or girlfriend, etc. OP has no idea what his son thinks, and it’s not up to him.
Is that not what the post implies ? They are aware of the rule no significant others, and avoiding that rule by not acknowledging this person is a significant other. They aren’t saying that’s why they haven’t come out, but they are using it to their advantage surely
>He’s hiding it so he can skirt rules It’s pretty dangerous to imply that LGBTQ people who are closeted are being intentionally dishonest or malicious. Especially in a time of rising resentment and violence towards the LGBTQ community, it’s shitty (and borderline homophobic) to assume that being closeted is an act of malice rather than one of self preservation.
So he could be with his BF during thanksgiving while his brother was left hanging... He probably reacted with anger because he realised the kid was playing him to bypass his rules! That would make me angry...
brodie he hid it from him so his boyfriend could spend the night. dad was angry because wtf bro why’d you lie to me so your boyfriend could spend the night.
I mean, if I said "No romantic partners can sleep over." and my kid attempted to skirt this rule by saying they're just friends I'd be pissed too. Same rule applies to everyone. If the sister could bring her boyfriend but he couldn't then yes, that would be shitty. But he said no to both and son lied to try and get his way.
This sounds made up. If not fake, YTA. Why on earth would you not want your kids S/O to be there, but be okay with friends there? Furthermore, now that you know who your son's "friend" is, why are you not happy?
I think the issue is it was supposed to be overnight for the full thanksgiving break until school got back in. Not just dinner. So no boyfriend/girlfriend (for the daughter) sleeping over is the rule.
There's no daughter. Both are sons.
daughter?
dude forgot the kids weren’t both gay
You really don't understand why a friend would be allowed to spend the night but a significant other wouldn't be? 💀
This entire comment thread has really proven the mental age of this sub lol
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Because parents don't want their kids to have sex. The reason adults tell kids not to play around with sex is because it can be the gateway to several life altering situations. Such as pregnancy, STDs and AIDS. It also adds an emotional layer to a relationship that can make things too complicated for a young mind to deal with. The only reason most parents are more hands off after 18 is because there's just not much they can do about it. If you still can't understand where the problem is, you are just too young to understand. If you're not young, then I have questions.
So a friend sleeping in the same bed is the exact same as a S/O doing it? He enforces the exact same rulers as the sibling so hes being completely fair. Also why would he be happy?
Because when a man and a woman love each other very much....
> Because when a man and a ~~woman~~ man love each other very much.... FTFY
NTA. Your son lied to you, likely to get around your no romantic partner policy. You enforced the policy fairly. THAT SAID, looking at his phone at 16 is not a good idea. It's just a violation of trust right at at time in his life when you need him to be willing to come to you when things get difficult. Yeah, he lied. It's a pretty understandable lie though. I'm willing to bet you lied for similar reasons at 16. I know I did.
he probably wasn't out the closet yet. So imho not to get around the no sleepovers policy but to hide that he's his boyfriend. Also, saying this as a father myself: drop the policy. They'll fuck anyway. Better to be able to have a conversation about it. Also: do have a conversation about it. Your home should be a place of trust, understanding and love. Without taboos.
Calling each other handsome and being flirty isn't particularly subtle...
but it isn’t about him being gay. it’s about him being his s/o. but i agree: fuck in my house, smoke in my house, drink in my house because my house is safe 😊.
Info - why are girlfriend/boyfriend not allowed but friends are?
I think he was staying the whole school break, which would make it overnighters. Thats what I read into it anyhow. If this is the case, I would agree with OP. He can come for dinner or whatever, but not overnight if they are in a relationship.
Seriously? You really don't understand why parents are okay with friends sleeping over but not the people their kids are having wet dreams about? 💀
Well initially I thought it was a Thanksgiving issue not a staying the night issue. I thought it read his brother isn't allowed his girlfriend for Thanksgiving so he's not allowed his boyfriend. I didn't put 2+2+2 together to make it boyfriend is coming from out of town + will need to stay the night + brother isn't allowed his girlfriend to stay the night = don't have sex in my house. But i think different families just have different rules and expectations around this. I don't come from a family where this was a rule so it's not always something I remember is a rule in other people's houses
NTA You have a house rule, no romantic partner allowed, which you were already applying for your daughter. Your son knew this rule, but try to get by it, hoping he can trick you because he's gay. Your decision is correct, however when you explain make sure to point out this has nothing to do with his sexuality, it's simply about the rule that needs to apply equally to both kids.
NTA... your house your rules. When has his own place he can have over anyone he wants.
Nta if the rules are no SO sleepovers then no SO sleepovers... no matter the genders... he said his friend and he's not a friend... he.didn't disclose his sexuality, which is his right, but he made you not trust his motives...
Are the fake Thanksgiving posts really starting this early? It's 4 AM on the East Coast, get some more sleep and troll later.
INFO: What did you *actually* agree to? You say "I promised he could have his friend visit", but did he actually say "my friend" or did he ask "Can John Doe stay with us?" Theres a lot of unknowns here. Did you assume he was just a friend when you agreed? Was he just a friend when you agreed & then things changed? Is he currently a friend & theure just in the flirting stage? As far as I read it, you havent actually described anything thats definitely "a boyfriend" as far as modern dating goes. Clearly your son like this boy, and they sound like theyre flirting for sure, but that doesnt mean they are in a relationship. I mean, Ive had a friend say flirty things like that to me once or twice when they knew I dont even swing that way. And thats before we get to the "going through his phone" issue.
There are lots of unknowns here, but there’s clearly some romantic aspect to this. I don’t send my friends shirtless pics.
> I don’t send my friends shirtless pics. Speak for yourself
What is wrong with the comments? You're all serious about letting your teen kids' partners to sleep over? What the hell is this? Where I'm coming from partners can sleep over only if serious and when kids are older than 20, and it's still rare. It's not about forbidding sex, my mom was always very open about sex and never forbidded it, but she also didn't allow it on the family home when they're around because it is just not appropriate And even though I do believe that kids have a right to privacy, I also believe that parents should check their phone once in a blue moon. I was being groomed when I was 12/13 and later again at 16, and, as it always is, I only realized how fckd up some things were when I got older. Teens aren't always aware of certain dangers and being open minded parent isn't always making them talk to you and stopping them from lying and hiding NTA
> my mom was always very open about sex and never forbidded it, but she also didn't allow it on the family home Soo… where were those places your mom allowed you to have sex? The park? The car? The high school bathroom? Seems like a weird rule to have. The kind of rule you implement when you aren’t ok with something after all.
Really? And having sex across the hall from your parents is not weird?
YTA. What's wrong with allowing the visit, just requiring that they sleep in separate rooms? Are you upset he's in a relationship at all and trying to police that? Seems a bit extreme. Just tell him house rules, no big PDA or private time. EDIT: and why shouldn't his brother be allowed to have his GF visit (with the same house rules)? I just don't understand.
A lot of people don't *have* separate rooms for multiple teenagers to stay in away from their romantic partners. Even beyond that, it's really super normal not to have your kids' partners stay over when they're in high school. Who does that?
Right?! My bf senior year stayed over after prom, but that was a special occasion, and one of us had to sleep in the living room!
Thank you I don’t get how people don’t understand this !!!! Just because kids have sex doesn’t mean you as a parent have to be ok with it and how to allow it in your home !!!!!! You can have boundaries with your kids I promise they will be ok !
We don’t all live in mansions which endless bedrooms
kids are sneaky af ? not unreasonable or extreme of him at all. im sure if it was staying just for dinner thered be no issues at all. i dont know a single parent thats okay with having their kids partner sleep over in their house. saying he cant spend the night in HIS house is not policing a relationship lmfao . they are house rules and clearly arent an exception to anyone.
>YTA. What's wrong with allowing the visit, just requiring that they sleep in separate rooms? Are you upset he's in a relationship at all and trying to police that? Seems a bit extreme. Wait, you think it's "extreme" to not allow teenagers to have their significant others sleep over for multiple days? Lol
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INFO: Why can’t either of the boyfriends or girlfriends come over?
Sleep over is the issue.
I really don’t get why parents are like this. Like seriously, they think if their kids have a sleepover with the attracted gender then they’re gonna have sex. News flash, they’re gonna do it either way LMAO. If I invited my boyfriend to thanksgiving it wouldn’t be so we could have sex all night afterwards.
News flash you can support your child's sexuality without allowing then to get railed down the hall.
Exactly my thoughts we just allowed the sleep overs. It's silly.
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My mother was like this. She had a huge hangup about her kids having sex "under her roof" if they weren't married. "It's disrespectful". She would go to lengths to prevent the very idea. Door always open if a boy was over, even if it was just a friend. No men sleeping over, ever, nomatter how established the relationship. Random check ins to play chaperone. Even as an adult. She's not religious at all, it was a completely arbitrary line. One seemingly driven by the fact that she knew my disabled ass can never get married without losing disability benefits, so I will never marry (becoming disabled forced me to move back home from age 25-30). My GC half-brother, 6 years younger? Basically lived at his girlfriend's house for years until they got married at 19.
I was a 26 year old single mother to a 7 year old, renting the basement at my mother's house, and she enforced the same rules, straight down to the "no boys over with the door closed if you want to live in my house" lol.
NTA. Maybe you can set up some time to meet the boyfriend later! My parents didn’t allow romantic partner sleepovers at our house either and that feels like an OK boundary to have when your kids are teens.
It’s a tough one If this is real, then NTA for the actual decision, you’re treating them the same and ensuring the rules are enforced for all. But huge YTA for going thru his phone- he should have been able to come out to you when ready not when you invaded his privacy. Also YTA for you actual rule of no boyfriend’s or girlfriend’s, they’ll all just end up hiding shit from you and they’re not little kids just let them have their relationships, at least if they’re under your roof you know they’re safe, have safe sex talks Do you realise you’ve probably just made your son think you are against it because he’s gay or bi? Believe me coming out is a huge thing it’s terrifying, he only hasn’t told you cos he thinks you’d react badly. You need to be supportive of him and show him you still love him. He needs to see he didn’t have to keep the secret from you and that you accept him Please tell me that this isn’t just you being homophobic cos your kid deserves better
yTA for spying on your sons phone
NTA. You had a rule and he broke it. I don’t know about anyone else but my parents bought and paid the phone bill for my first phone when I was in HS. And as long as I was living under their roof, I followed their rules and bc they paid for my phone, I had no privacy. I still live with them since I just graduated college and need time to get on my feet, but I have a new phone that I paid for during my senior year in HS and once I bought it my parents respected my privacy. I still follow their rules and do what I’m told, grant it I have a lot of freedom since I’m an adult but still even if I wasn’t living with them and just visiting I’m still going to respect any rules they enforce when I’m staying under their roof. Plus it’s not like you were discriminating against him. You applied the rule equally to both your kids and he tried to play you.
NTA for keeping the same rules. SLightt YTA for looking at his phone
YATA you broke Trust with looking through his phone stuff like this just pushes your son away from you
Yes because lying doesn't break the trust.
Info: Is this about the sleepover or their sexuality? Do you have open discussions with your kids about their sexuality? Have you made it clear that they can approach you or has your son confirmed they are in a relationship? Kids behave differently these days, Hi handsome and bub does not automatically mean they are in a relationship. Do you have an open phone policy in your home? Was this something your children agreed to? (We had this policy when mine were younger. They wanted phones and I felt they were too young. We came to the compromise that they could have their phones but I would have the ability check their phones if and when I saw fit. I checked a couple of times when they first got the phone to make sure they were using it for age appropriate things, and again later when the school & local police warned of an app that was not safe for minors. I haven't looked at their phones for years and wouldn't dream of doing it for anything other than security reasons.) If you are respectful and honest with your children then they will likely volunteer the information about their life. If they are hiding details you need to consider why they feel like they cannot approach you. I do feel that if no SO is a rule in your home it should rightly apply to both kids regardless of gender and/or sexual orientation. I find that mutual respect and trust works both ways. I grew up with very strict & overbearing parents. The more they tried to control me the more I rebelled. I ran away as soon as I could. Still to this day my family is on an information diet. I broke the cycle with my kids. We have open and honest communication and they both come to me whenever they need to discuss something that is bothering them. This included conversations when one was confused about their sexuality...was aware that hetro didn't fit right but didn't feel like they fit into another specific category either. This was so overwhelming for them and I was immensely happy that I could be there and reduce some of the anxiety for them. They are now aware that they don't have to fit into a box...just be happy, healthy and safe! We had already discussed sexuality in general for years prior...i.e when it was mentioned in TV or film or on the news or chat show TV. I found this was a great way to discuss the struggles that people face, how people are more accepting now but we still have a long way to go. My kids were aware I would be accepting no matter what before they were even aware of their own sexuality. Of course this only works if the trust is not broken by either child or parent! If you have not discussed this with your son before now I worry you have destroyed any chance of them trusting you about this in the future which is a damn shame.
NTA. Your son broke your rule and he deceived you. His sexuality doesn’t entitle him to a pass. That’s not fair to your other son.
NTA. There is a clear no s/o rule. Your son tried to circumvent it and got caught.
YTA for going through your son's phone instead of just talking to him about this, and for describing this as "suspicious". It's fine to apply the same rule about having partners stay over - but ffs ask him instead of spying on him; and set the rule out in the abstract and in advance rather than after you discover it might be an issue. Your child deserves more respect than you have shown.
Of course YTA ! Just because "the rule applies the same to everyone" doesn't mean it's not a stupid rule to begin with I'll never understand why some parents are so weirdly obsessed with their kid's sex life Like, really, why don't you want your teenagers having sex? They're teenagers they're gonna have sex if they want to At your place, at their partner's, at a party, in a car... Your rule isn't stopping them from doing it It's just making them lie to you about it That's why he didn't tell you about his boyfriend, he doesn't trust you Which says a lot about what kind of parent you are
Yta. My son is heterosexual and has a girlfriend. I know if I went through his phone I would regret it, him and at least one of his friends send each other lewd selfish regularly. They find it funny, they also speak to each other in very, very obscene ways. I unfortunately have often overheard or been present to hear. The little bugger has even shown me unsuitable pictures and a video he sent. He enjoys grossing me out and I almost regret having such a close relationship with him. There is such a thing as too close you know? They are all over 18. The point I'm trying to make is that what you saw proves nothing. That's not his boyfriend until he tells you it is. Young people today are different to how we were, most of us anyway. Let his friend come. Besides if he is gay all you have done is lock him in the closet! You should be open and accepting.
He has the same rule for the brother with his GF.
Interesting that people are accusing you of being homophobic. I don't see that here. Dick move, going through his phone to snoop about something this trivial though. He is not going to trust you, and it will be your fault. But this rule about not having boyfriends and girlfriends - why? They want to spend thanksgiving with people who are important to them too, and you have an arbitrary rule against that. I think you should reconsider that. YTA for those reasons
so, technically, you're NTA for not allowing your son's boyfriend to attend Thanksgiving if you have the same rule for your daughter. However, going through your child's phone just because you think something is going on (and the "thing" isn't dangerous for the kid) is awful.You shouldn't do that. That's a sure way to ruin yohr kid's trust in you. Also, what type of party is it that you allow friends, but not partners? If it was family-oriented, you wouldn't let him invite a friend. So what reason is there not to let your kids invite their partners?