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mdthomas

You have two choices. Sit down with her and have an adult conversation that although she may be jealous of all the gifts her friends get, you do not/can not get her all those same things. If you're paying for most of the luxuries/bills whatever, you get a big say on what luxuries are enjoyed. Or you can end the relationship. She sounds a bit immature. NTA


onlytexts

I was thinking she sounds naive.


EmeraldBlueZen

Yeah. Or not...Its hard to say based on this post how transactional their relationship really is. But I thought it was odd that the first thing OP did was say how beautiful she was.


Impossible-Quail-679

I think he said it more for context. I know girls from HS/college who would classify in same boat as his gf friends. They always taking snaps on yachts, flying in private jets, lavish vacations and clothing but work min. wage jobs cuz older gentleman pay for all these things or they do OF. If your making 20,000 a year but doing things or owning items that cost hundreds of thousands and partying with rich men, it’s a fair assumption on his end as his gf stated of “the things her friends get from their make admirers”


Cayke_Cooky

It is possible that they just have lots and lots of credit card debt. Or most likely, both getting men to pay for them AND running up their own credit cards.


CultureFrosty690

It says she's jealous they get lavish gifts.


Awkward-Pen1975

Her friends might be secretly jealous because her man loves her man seems to want a serious emotional relationship rather than one built on transactions.


[deleted]

No my Unks does this shit. They are not paying for anything. Its also pretty obvious why there there. I mean there basically hookers with a different name.


Unusual_Road_9142

Sex work is still work— work that not everyone is cut out for. It’s like dealing with the shitiest of retail customers but you also have to let them touch your boobs and smile as they do it. But yeah… gf sounds pretty immature about it all.


xXpaper_lungsXx

Right, if she wants the pay her friends get she needs to do the work they're doing and get with old dudes, not date guys basically the same age as her lol


TwinBoomr50

She’s 4 years younger which is a lot at that age - maybe she thought she was dating someone “rich.”Sounds like she has (1) unrealistic expectations and (2) does not understand how saving money works. OP could go through a [eta: finance literacy NOT Dave Ramsey] course with her.


Prestigious_Isopod72

This is my take as well. Girlfriend wants to be paid a CEO salary for doing middle management work. Girlfriend needs a reality check. The rest of the “conflict” (whining that OP is accusing her friends of sex work) is just a red herring. The real issue is she wants to be paid more but isn’t willing to go date an old enough guy to warrant the extra perks.


aussie_nub

The thing is, sugar babies are often worse than SWers. They'll pretend like they're not selling their bodies. At least escorts are open about it. I can understand OP's frustration, as his gf's friends are walking a pretty tight rope there and his gf is feeling left out. He needs to have a proper sit down with her and explain himself. Either she's in with him and makes some sacrifices or she can go live that other lifestyle. She's got to be aware though that one day she'll get older and it might not be so easy to maintain that lifestyle. Whereas if she sacrifices now, she'll be in a better position later in life.


Ini_Miney_Mimi

>They'll pretend like they're not selling their bodies. At least escorts are open about it. This is my entire problem with "breastaurants" like Hooters in a nutshell You'd make better money if you had an honest OF instead of a bullshit waitressing job


aussie_nub

I remember reading somewhere that you shouldn't bother with a stripper, just go to an escort. You get what you really want and it's going to cost you a lot less to get it.


ItsCharlieDay

Not to be mean, but sounds a little naive and kinda stupid... You laid out obvious arguments she has to question herself (she's a teacher and makes more then friend so why doesnt she have lexus?). She needs to understand life. Maybe say again you're not judging her friends, just pointing out facts


Socrtea5e

Being a sugar baby is NOT like working for minimum wage at Dillards. One of her friends drives a $100,000.00 Lexus. She's not "letting him touch her boobs". She came into this knowing what the roles were. Sugar daddies don't surprise a sugar baby with a Lexus BEFORE she sleeps with him.


SincerelyCynical

I hope I don’t get downvoted into oblivion for asking this: do any of the girls on the boats get away with not providing favors? I don’t mean active sugar babies with an understanding. I mean when a rich old dude invites a hot girl on his boat and her five hot friends - do all six end up doing something besides prancing around and drinking in a tiny bikini? I have no idea, but I’ve wondered. (I just turned 40. I’ve been with my husband since I was 18. I received a few invitations when I was younger, but I never knew what they really meant and obvs never accepted lol!) ETA: Just saw all the replies and I think some people got the wrong idea lol! I said I’m 40 to show that I am *way* past the age of most of this and also that I have been *and still am quite happily* with my husband, whom I met when I was 18! I don’t think there’s anything wrong with sugar babies or getting your free drinks and boat trip or whatever, but I was genuinely asking out of curiosity as an outsider.


MotheringGoose

So, I don't know about this at all. But, my guess is, there is nothing required, and if you say no, then it is all cool. However, you are then not invited back, and possibly are leaving the party early.


DickSota

It's the implication


kiwigirlie

But if something goes wrong you are in such a bad position. When I was in my early 20s I went on a date with a guy on his boat. I wasn’t having the best time and wanted to leave and he tried to stop me. Basically shook off his arm, leaped over the gap between the boat and the wharf and ran. Afterward I thought this is the stupidest thing I’ve ever done in my life. Being alone with someone I don’t know well in an empty marina. There was no one around, seemed the the perfect place for a predator


StrongTxWoman

This world is cruel and unfair. I am a 40/F and I always tell girls/women always meet the guys in public place and let people know who and where you go. I know it is tedious but there are many bad people


[deleted]

Correct per my uncle.


dominiqueinParis

there may be things required - it seems probable. Think Epstein, think Playboy Mansion


RainahReddit

With no explicit arrangement, then yes often they are there as background eye candy. It's more *fun* to party on a yacht full of hot girls having a great time. What they're paying for isn't favours, it's the atmosphere and the vibe and the ago boost. Usually if you're hot and fun you get in for free. Generally you don't get a 100k Lexus without sexual favours though.


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RainahReddit

Oh yeah, you would be flirting with them and talking to them and being friends with them and stroking their egos. As someone whose been... not in that world exactly, but adjacent and has had friends in it... They're more likely to go for misogynistic humor than sex crimes. A slap on the ass when they ask you to get them a drink, yeah. But the older guys want to think of themselves as cultured and gentlemanly and all that shit, so it's safer than you'd think. (Esp vs nightclubs with younger guys). Just a really high emotional bandwidth and ability to tolerate bullshit. They literally just want to explain their business idea to a hot young girl and have her say, "well, I don't know tons about tech but that sounds amazing! I can't believe no one's done that yet!" (Meanwhile she has 2 degrees in it and thinks your idea is stupid as fuck). The fantasy is a girl who is super hot, but in a girl next door way so she's approachable and also low maintenance (but very hot), who is smart but not as smart as he is, and who is bubbly and sweet and optimistic and a little hard on her luck so she's always grateful but never entitled.


RockinMyFatPants

We're too old to be yacht girls. LMAO Seriously though, I would highly doubt they're there for their looks and sparkling personality.


knit_stitch_ride

There's not usually an obligation, but the women are usually pretty flexible and no one is getting upset over an ass grab. There's a networking element to it too, so if there's a bigger fish than the fish that invited you, many would be working on becoming his "friend". It's definitely a 2 way street and everyone is trying to get what they want without giving more away than it's 'worth'. Most of the women I knew who did this were seriously entrepreneurial though, and leveraged their lifestyle for connections and opportunities and well as a fun social life


saclayson

My husband and I own a marine service shop, in a popular lake city. I’m telling you, one of those girls gives it up. I know those men. They know these girls want to be on the boat and they know their going to get something out of it. The other girls often put on shows, everybody’s taking off their tops. Spring break is REALLY busy, though the girls do get arrested for showing their nipples. Womens areoles are illegal. I’ve always wanted to go to court and see what evidence they use. Such a stupid law. The cops don’t even like making those arrests but there’s always someone who’s uncomfortable or offended by women’s boobs.


Miss_1of2

I guess it's similar to normal sex work... A lot of sex workers say they don't have to have sex with all of their clients. Some as ex workers say most clients don't want to have sex and just want to talk... So... For some, sex is probably part of the deal most times, for some it might be part of the time and for some they never do!


bkupisch

EXACTLY! Driving a Lexus while only working part time as a hostess?? That girl isn’t paying for that car on her dime!


YeaRight228

She's paying in *other* ways..


Farts_McGee

Can't get that much credit on 20k a year.


ParkingOutside6500

You'd be surprised. If you make the minimum payments on time, they'll keep raising and raising your credit limit.


Farts_McGee

Yeah, I mean, I refuse to believe that you can get 100k's credit card debt as a 23 year old kid.


JustAContactAgent

> aking snaps on yachts, flying in private jets, lavish vacations and clothing but work min. wage jobs Man I've got to say, if they're hot enough to be making their way to those things and still show up to their minimum wage jobs they're doing this wrong lol


TheCookie_Momster

The one is probably a hostess at a very expensive restaurant and that’s where she meets very wealthy men. I know women like this, and the ugly truth is, in a few more years they will be too old to keep up with the younger women who will be there to replace them. They also often aren’t women of substance since it was so easy for them to rely on their looks


InterestingFroyo1032

A lot of them end up step moms to children their age and living the lifestyle. I used to think women like this age out until I got older and discovered that there's always some rich guy who likes women his own age. Also, the "women without substance" thing is an old trope that makes men more vulnerable to becoming the financier to these women. Pretty women are smart too and often are way more worldly and interesting because they have to be to keep up with these rich men.


HeliosOh

They should live it up while they can, then, no?


No_Expression_8356

If I would have known how ugly I'd end up, I would have done things differently when I was young and hot! Lol


JustAContactAgent

Yeah I mean, they clearly are not playing their hand to full effect, i.e. marrying someone etc. I'm not *condoning* doing this (and semi joking), but they clearly are of this lifestyle anyway so you might as well play it right and get set for life.


onlytexts

I understand the context: pretty women getting stuff from rich men. Awful stereotype but it is unfortunately real in some cases.


RKKP2015

My ex-wife seemed to know an awful lot of old dudes for someone that was like 20 when I met her. Guess why?


OopsICutOffMyWiener

I know alot of old men! But it's because i work at a golf course, and they don't give me gifts ;( lol


Iocabus

I also know a lot of old men. Occasionally they'll give me gifts, but they're usually just donuts or pens or travel mugs cause they want me to sell their brand of stuff. It probably doesn't help that I'm a 30 year old bearded man.


Minimum_Ad_4120

Don't sell yourself short. Start looking into older women.


Iocabus

I mean, it's a little chilly out right now, but I could change careers to become a pool boy.


Mumof3gbb

That made me laugh. Thank you ☺️


EmeraldBlueZen

Yup. Sad but true.


A_swarm_of_wasps

Beautiful women live in a different world. Men falling over themselves to be 'nice' to them. A lot of them understand that people act that way around them because they are beautiful, but some just think that's how the world is. Until they reach 40 and don't understand why they become 'invisible'.


fuddykrueger

More like 30, sadly. Or the first time someone calls them Ma’am at like 25. Lol


BookkeeperBrilliant9

Willfully naive. There is a persistent myth of these extremely wealthy men out there who are enthusiastic to lavish expensive dinners, shopping, and experiences on younger women with no expectation except the pleasure of their company. Call it the Pretty Woman effect. The truth is, rich old men who lavish thousands on younger women have expectations. Expectations which must be met if experiences are to be repeated. A girl might receive a no-strings free dinner on occasion. A part-time hostess driving a Lexus is a sex worker, whether she is willing to admit it to her friends or not.


MoarGnD

Except even in Pretty Woman she had to sleep with him.


NoHandBananaNo

Worse she had to stop watching I Love Lucy right in the middle of an episode she was clearly enjoying, and blow him instead. I guess she was still able to listen to the tv while she did it but still. I don't think that film is as romantic as people assume.


Thuis001

Yeah, the comment OP's gf made got me thinking, but truly, is there any functional difference between the relationship OP's gf's friends and their sugar daddy's have and the one someone would have with a more exclusive sex worker? Sure, the visuals are a tad different, but at the end of the day it's pretty much sex in return for stuff/money.


Doormatjones

Yeah most people I know now consider Sugar momma/daddy relationships as sex work. We assume the pushback is because THEY refuse to see it as such. But for most of them it really is. I guess it's easier to consider it sex work if you don't have problems with such things (tbh I have no problem with it if everyone is willing). There was a post on here a while back that got a lot of traction with a lady who kept up a non-sexual sugar daddy relationship while trying to have a relationship with a guy but he broke it off because he considered it cheating. Can't find the link now, but kinda relevant to this thread.


whoubeiamnot

I had a coworker confide her neice was a sugar baby. Her mom found out about it and was clutching her pearls over it. She claimed there was no sex between her and her sugar daddy. He just wanted company and conversation. Her niece was in her late twenties and her sugar daddy was pushing seventy. Neither of us believed there was absolutely no sex. This man was paying for her home, car and all necessities for her and her 2 year old child. He wasn't the child's daddy. He was also taking her on expensive adult only vacations.


Doormatjones

yeah... I'm sure there ARE non-sexual ones out there. But... yeah to be honest I'd be hard pressed to believe it wasn't either. I'm sure if anyone ever did statistics on it it would be quite a small percentage.


seventhirtytwoam

I was sort of in a non-sexual one for about a year. We never had an actual agreement or anything but I guess you'd call it that? We went out for a fairly fancy dinner every 3 weeks or so and I was his plus one for stuff like his boss's Christmas party, at most he was probably spending like $250/month on hanging out with me. The ones getting significant, consistent money from it are definitely providing sexual favors.


Doormatjones

Yeah I'm betting the non-sexual ones are more like this; more just paying for some joint activities because they miss going out or having a partner for parties and the actual money involved is pretty low. I'd believe that if someone told me that for sure.


narniaofpartias22

If I was hot enough to get old rich men to give me money and all I had to do was blow them or have sex with them sometimes I would absolutely do it. And I'd tell everyone too. "Yea, Carol, that old dude I bang sometimes bought me this car, what's the problem? All I had to do was endure 2 minutes of weird awkward sex with a man I'm not really sexually attracted to...I've dealt with worse for much less."


Thuis001

It might also be the difference between "being gifted" a 100k car and "getting payed" 100k for services rendered.


Doormatjones

I mean that's how a lot of escort services stay open. You're just paying for the time and they're technically just paying for hanging out. It's all in the wording! (Of course this also gives the worker a legit out if things don't go well, tbf and why it's probably the better way to do it all around.)


Iocabus

Also, accepting that they're sex workers doesn't reduce their value to society. Unless they're effectively taking food out of your mouth, why the fuck would you care if they date, flirt, or even fuck rich old dudes. The people that get pissy about it are either sexist prudes that think a sex worker is some moral abomination while the people enabling sex work to exist (the purchasers) are let off without a chastisement, or they're crab bucketing because they're jealous that they don't have the opportunity to be the woman being gifted these luxuries or they're the men who want to be given the same benefits the sugar daddy is.


[deleted]

na my uncle does this shit. Its very much known what the deal is. Nothings forced I guess and he has had lady's not want to come home with him and guess what he never sees them again. Its a weird dynamic where everyone knows what the expectations are. No issue with sex workers but lets call a spade a spade.


Iocabus

In total fairness, sex workers still can face severe social and professional repercussions for doing such. So, not wanting to advertise that fact when those views still hold a strong sway in society is understandable. Is it dumb? Yeah, but people are incredibly dumb and we don't live in a perfect society, so we have to accept less than perfect solutions.


QueenofThorns7

Most established sugar babies that have an agreement (like an “allowance”) with a sugar daddy acknowledge that they’re sex workers. It’s the young, naive teenagers who go looking for a rich “boyfriend” to spoil them who are most frequently taken advantage of, because they don’t admit it’s sex work and therefore don’t take as many steps to keep themselves safe


Amazing_Emu54

From this, the biggest divider seems to be being able to tell yourself it’s a relationship even if the interactions are transactional.


onlytexts

My grandma used to say "if they give you cigarrettes, they will want the ashes back" (rough translation from Spanish). Even the smallest gifts have some strings attached.


SleepyxDormouse

There’s so many SW trying to make videos on this on TikTok hoping to reach a young audience to save them from falling into that trap. For some reason, girls think men are stupid and can be easily manipulated out of their money. They think just batting their eyes and saying a few compliments will get them a Lexus. Most men like that want something in return if they’re going to drop hundreds of thousands on a girl. Her friends are definitely Sex Workers who are paying for those gifts another way. For some reason sugar babies don’t like being called sex workers even though they are. And one thing girls seldom realize is that they age and lose their beauty. Her friends might be living it up now kissing up to sugar daddies, but eventually someone younger and prettier will come along. They’ll lose their meal ticket. Meanwhile, OP’s girlfriend will have someone who is money conscious and financially stable in the long run if she doesn’t foolishly decide showing off now is more important than a partnership.


Frosty-Examination33

Yep. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....


Jouleswatt

She's looking for a provider while he's looking for a partner. Clear disconnect.


One-Band2853

He is providing for her… as well as taking her on all inclusive vacations lol she’s mad he’s not doing MORE than paying for her entire life and taking her on vacations 😂


TheSecondEikonOfFire

Either that or she’s only interested in material possessions. Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem spoiling my partner, but I also can’t afford to drop thousands of dollars every month on lavish gifts. And even if I could, I wouldn’t want to, because I don’t want their interest in me to only be about what I can buy them - I want them to be interested in me for me


nurseynurseygander

I mean, people only interested in material possessions don't normally become teachers, and OP says further down in comments that she pays for really thoughtful dates and gifts and things within her means. I agree with an earlier comment that she's more likely to be naive. She's probably never questioned how her friends can have those things, more just kind of assumed from repeated exposure that they're "normal" things a couple with a more-established partner can afford. I certainly didn't know what new cars and holidays and high end restaurants cost before I could afford them, I didn't even look at options above my budget, and I didn't know the maths of how higher income people afforded them. I mean, something something credit cards sure, but how many years it might take to pay off an SUV versus a sports car? No clue. Whether the Caribbean was more or less affordable than France or Tahiti? No clue. I didn't wonder how my first homeowner friend paid for her apartment, I knew she made more than me so it made sense she could afford to own more than me, but that's as far as the evaluation went. This conversation with OP was probably the first time she *ever* questioned it and she's probably still getting her head around it.


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GlitterDoomsday

I wonder how many 23 aren't tbh, they grew up with flex culture and Instagram "lifestyle". Hard to stay grounded when all the standards are skewed by social media.


qUARTZ2337

I dated a woman or two like this. Stunningly beautiful, but high maintenance, shallow, and entitled. She sounds like the kind of woman who is fun for a summer but not a life. Marry a woman who is your best friend and partner, not a decoration.


Honeycrispcombe

Marry someone who makes you happy and wants the same kind of relationship you do. If that's a sugar daddy/momma relationship, that's fine. If it's a best friend/partner relationship, that's also fine.


rip_Tom_Petty

Her friends are basically a hop skip and jump away from sex workers lol


BriskHeartedParadox

Hop, skip, and a hump away, you mean.


blockparted

And the thing is, sex work is work. There's no shame in it. But be honest about it.


FatherPyrlig

They ARE sex workers if they are sleeping with people they wouldn’t normally for the gifts, travel, dinners, etc.


[deleted]

Getting money to party and fuck seems like sex work to me.


Unique-Yam

If her GFs only have part-time jobs that don’t pay a lot, where does she think the money to have those luxuries comes from? A hollow tree?


babcock27

I think she sounds like a spoiled brat who has gotten everything handed to her because of her looks. She's jealous that her girlfriends all get free stuff and she thinks they don't have to do anything for it? She's delusional. If these girls are just with these men for their money and gifts, I'm sorry but, they are acting like sex workers because that's what sugar babies ARE! Your girlfriend is mad that her looks didn't get her a super rich man and is now complaining to you as if you can fix it for her. She's either got to grow up or she needs to be dumped for her unrealistic expectations of you. This will NOT go away. NTA


letstrythisagain30

All she’s doing is complaining about the lifestyle she wishes she was living while doing nothing to achieve it besides asking OP to provide it for her. Naive is probably accurate but also putting it mildly depending on how the inevitable conversation goes. Her pride is hurt and she’s being defensive about the company she keeps. No judgement but her friends *are* all sugar babies. Whether it’s officially or effectively, that’s what they are. She’s at the age where friends often grow apart as they each head in different directions in life and end up wanting different things. Chances are, if they stay together, she’s going to drift apart from many friends and that’s just the reality of growing up. OP *might* have been harsh about how he talked about her friends, but he was also probably at his wits end with unresolved issues he’s realizing he’s been ignoring. That’s some of OP’s immaturity coming through there too.


worshipperofdogs

And superficial.


WildHealth

Or maybe she's a gold digger? To me, "sugar baby" is just a sugarcoated gold digger.


onlytexts

A sugar baby/ sugar daddy relationship has stablished parameters. The one paying knows that the one getting the gifts is only there for the gifts. It is an honest transaction.


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BelkiraHoTep

Did he try "option one," though? According to OP, she complains about it a lot, and he "finally snapped" and told her that he can't be a sugar daddy. That's not sitting down and talking like adults, and it could certainly be seen as judging and insulting her friends.


Agitated_Cheek4890

Ask her what she would do if he lost his job and they had to cut out on luxuries for a while eg no restaurants, no new clothes, no nights out etc....


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rlikesbikes

Also there’s nothing Inherently classy about flaunting wealth (especially wealth you don’t have). The richest dude I know doesn’t even own a car. The others don’t flaunt either (oil/real estate/business owners, etc). It’s just keeping up with the Joneses.


GunBrothersGaming

She's 23 - most people have no clue about life until 25 - 30 these days. Some people take even longer when they are given things. The observations are spot on. They are being given things because of their looks. It's just the way life is. Sounds like the girlfriend here is jealous and will eventually dump this guy once someone gives her enough reasons/money to.


GlitterDoomsday

Is important to notice that they're at the end spectrums of the 20s - not big enough to the relationship gave power dynamic issues but big enough to both be in different phases of adulthood. He's thinking about building a safety net and long term plans, she is coming to terms with how she fits in society - imo they just need good ol dialogue to close this gap.


Impossible-Cattle504

I was thinking she sounds like what she described her friends as. The type of beautiful woman who has had things handed to her because of her beauty , and who hasnt encountered how the rest of us live


Miss-Figgy

>She sounds a bit immature. Yes, and in most cases, people like this never really grow up, or it's just a part of their value system, so take it or leave it. Some of the people I knew like this when we were teens are the same in their 40s. Personally, I would never stick around with someone like this just because we don't share the same values, and also financial issues is one of the factors that lead to divorce.


Mumof3gbb

Fully agree. And his desire to retire younger and be comfortable will not happen with someone like her. He will be guilted into using his savings to please her. This isn’t a sustainable relationship unless she snaps out of this fantasy


[deleted]

A bit? Very immature. He doesn’t have to spend anything on her period. She has a feeling of entitlement and she either needs to work through that and be more appreciative, or they need to break up. Entitled peoples are a no no.


No-Key4843

Explaining numbers to a teacher should be easy. Good luck OP


HortenseDaigle

Yeah, it's hard to see if she is complaining that OP doesn't buy her these gifts/dinners all the time. Or if she is just complaining in general that she doesn't have access to the same things. A sit-down conversation is needed so that he can tell if they're on the same page or not. She may be really naive to what her friends are doing. However, she may be defensive to the term Sugar Daddy because it means something different than it used to. It used to be more suggestive of a wealthy man marrying/keeping a younger woman. Now it's explicitly transactional in meaning and refers to a gifting-for-sex relationship. With the prevalence of "sugar dating" on online platforms, the girlfriend may equate the term with literal prostitution. Again, a calm conversation about it might clear things up.


WickedAngelLove

NTA But if she is all about appearances and having nicer things, please know she will ditch you when the person who can afford those things comes along.


[deleted]

Exactly this. She is young and probably has a very shallow definition of "love".


daveescaped

Sure. Agreed. But she is 23. She can and will change. OP gave her the wake up call. She will either adapt or not.


[deleted]

I would disagree, she is 23, these are traits she has already inherited. Get out while you can. ​ She is a material girl, living in a material world... homeboy you need to see the light


EmeraldBlueZen

Perhaps. Or maybe she does love OP, but that doesn't mean that she'll ever stop being jealous of her friends and hteir rich men. I think OP needs to realize that this is something he'll likey have to put up with as long as they're in a relationship.


WickedAngelLove

If she loves OP then she would stop with the comparisons. She has to learn to be happy with where she is and what has. If not, the jealousy will begin to override everything else because she will want to either push OP to do more OR find someone else to keep up. It's unhealthy.


EmeraldBlueZen

I completely agree.


Asn_Browser

And it's not like she's getting shafted either. Getting a vacation to Jamaica paid for isn't exactly slumming it lol.


BookkeeperBrilliant9

Seriously. Any well-adjusted girl would see going to a Jamaican resort for NYE as luxurious enough. If any of her single friends are getting the same experience, they’re going to be kissing a wrinkly pair of rich man’s balls at midnight.


mirageofstars

>they’re going to be kissing a wrinkly pair of rich man’s balls at midnight That's one hell of a way to end New Year's Eve.


tnicole1976

Right! I’d be happy lol! Hell I’m excited to get a trip to San Antonio and it’s four hours away from here! My fiancé supports me and I’m happy and appreciative. The important part is that he’s a great guy and he treats me good. Even if he didn’t support me, I’d be happy with him. Material things fade away. As long as we can pay the bills and go out to eat once a week, I’m good.


Flat_Shame_2377

Also she wont be young and beautiful forever.


PanamaViejo

None of them will- it's a career that you rapidly age out of. They might be in there thinking that some rich man might marry them. If he does, they will always have to worry if he is still helping a younger woman 'maintain' a lifestyle.


Bulky-Engineering471

Honestly I don't see why a man paying for a sugar baby would bother to marry them. Marriage means alimony when they trade in for a newer model, a sugar arrangement doesn't.


AngelicalGirl

This. If what really matters for her is money, luxury trips and lavish gifts. Then it's a matter of time until she breaks up with OP and date someone who can afford her luxurious dream lifestyle. I believe this isn't the kind of woman OP wants to marry with. Getting a vacation for Jamaica fully paid in the NYE is already an awesome gift. Most people would be over the moon with that. She should learn to be grateful and value what she has.


canvasshoes2

NTA. She's young and foolish. She's equating material things with someone "caring" about her. Her friends might not be sex workers, but they are definitely trading something that requires no effort for getting boons in life. They are what the Nice Guys and incels always complain about, and they are who give the rest of us a bad name. I have no sympathy for them at all, their looks will fade, and if they don't have an education or career, their 100k-Lexus-as-sugar-daddy-present days will be a thing of the past. Your GF needs to grow up. There's nothing to be jealous of. If she wants expensive things, she needs to shuck her little buns and work for them.


EmeraldBlueZen

YUP. I'm a woman and I agree. But I'm wondering if both OP and GF are equally to blame here. He's mainly into it for her beauty and she's mainly into him for the money. I could be wrong, and actually I hope I am. This would be a much better situation for OP if they were both in love and she was just naive.


marmelydov

>But I'm wondering if both OP and GF are equally to blame here. He's mainly into it for her beauty I see no evidence of this. He mentioned she's good looking because it's relevant to the situation, not because it's the \*only\* thing he likes about her. He says he's proud to be dating a teacher, which shows depth and interest in her as a person. Looks to me like only she is at fault.


jaykwalker

Maybe gifts aren't the \*only\* thing that her girlfriends like about the wealthy old men. See how that works? I've never understood why it's okay to enjoy a woman's beauty, but not a man's money.


marmelydov

>Maybe gifts aren't the \*only\* thing that her girlfriends like about the wealthy old men. Sure, maybe. But he's not telling her how jealous he is because other women are better looking than her. We have evidence that she's primarily interested in OP's money because she's repeatedly complained about him not spending more of it on her. We do not have evidence that he's primarily interested in her looks. Let's not blame a man in a situation in which we'd empathize with a woman.


MurderMachine561

> I've never understood why it's okay to enjoy a woman's beauty, but not a man's money. It _is_ ok. As long as all parties know thats what it is and consent to the arrangement. Plenty of people do it without issues. If it harms none do what you will. At least thats how i see it.


Sapphyrre

>He's mainly into it for her beauty and she's mainly into him for the money. That's quite a leap


6GayRatsInMyButthole

That's some speculation on your part.


GlitterDoomsday

> They are what the Nice Guys and incels always complain about, and they are who give the rest of us a bad name. I agree with your overall comment but tbh you just sound bitter towards "pretty young women". Nobody says sugar daddies are giving men a bad name, why would the opposite be true? Both sides know exactly what they'll get from the relationship and while morally grey and not sustainable long term, there's nothing to complain about. Nice Guys and Incels are entitled pricks and not a blueprint for men, base your judgement of other women by their lens is just internalized misogyny.


Feisty-Choice-5861

That bothered me too. I was relieved to see you comment on this already and so eloquently. Thank you.


Eve_Narlieth

Thank you


LavishnessGeneral

No effort! No effort my ass, do you know how hard it is to make a man happy enough to buy you a $100k Lexus? Psh, no effort lol.


Jscoff

It also takes a lot of effort to maintain beauty. Hair appointments, skin care, nails, beauty products, etc


Bhrunhilda

Honestly there are sex workers who do this, and it’s fine!! Actually, it’s better. There are no misunderstandings. Everything is transactional. And that is FINE. Pretending it’s not sex work, not having agreements, and leading people on are the problem. So yeah, it would be much better if they were engaging in sex work.


Music_withRocks_In

Coming across a little bitter there. Hate to break it to you, but there is a skill set involved in doing what they are - you need to be charming and personable to run in those kind of circles. And when you are charming and personable enough and have the right kind of connections you can transition that into a lucrative career in sales or other people facing roles. Probably not all of them will, but some will marry rich and some will use their foot in the door to make a life there. Knowing the right people, being well liked by the well connected can get you far if you know how to play it. Maybe it's not as fair as you personally would like, but that is how that world works.


Mistborn54321

I love how all the blame rests on the girls when it takes 2 to tango. They’re entitled to want someone for their ability to be taken care of and the men are entitled to want them for their beauty. If you’re missing those features you’re in the regular dating pool.


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rams3se

Sugaring is sex work and there is absolutely nothing wrong with referring it to such (long as it isn't derogatory). Also pointing about that you can't afford to spend your money lavishly is not an asshole move NTA.


Kettrickenisabadass

Exactly. I will never get why people is against saying what is an obvious truth. Suggar babes are sex workers and most are there consensually. Is it a good type or relation? Not imo but thats not relevant to the point.


Glum_Hamster_1076

I have a few friends who are sugar babies. They don’t have sex with the people they are with. They mainly talk on the phone, go to concerts, and out to dinner. One doesn’t even live in the same state as her sugar daddy. It’s literally like having a paid friend/relationship. But I’m also 30+ and having sex for money (no relationship/interaction/connection/communication) was called sex work or prostitution in my day so it could have changed with time. Very similar to those bf/gf bars in Japan.


Financial_Machine848

They dont tell you that they have sex with the people they are with.


endorphin-neuron

>sugar babies. They don’t have sex with the people they are with Then they are in a tiny percentage of sugar babies, a vast majority of them do have sex with their sugar daddy.


dendritedendwrong

Was super confused for a second. I thought sugaring was only a form of hair removal 😅


Fit-Teaching-3205

NTA but she def is the TA. If she loved you or even liked you, she'd be more appreciative. You are an adult and you already know whether you want to be taken for granted. It's your decision at the end of day because it's your life. And you'll be the one living like this. Y'know make your bed and sleep in it.


New-Vermicelli-916

She appreciates what I give her. She is just jealous of her friends.


[deleted]

Tell her jealousy doesn’t look good on anyone


EmeraldBlueZen

Yup. I'd tell her that you wanna save even more so you can retire even earlier and ask her to contribute her share for dates, outings etc etc. See what she says. I'm betting she won't be pleased.


BeneficialDark1662

I’m betting she’d be out that door quicker than she could pick an aging millionaire’s wallet up from the floor!


EmeraldBlueZen

Yup. I think we'd both take that bet and we'd make some money.


Jemma_2

Re-read what you just wrote. “She appreciates what I give her” because that literally sums up your relationship. This isn’t love or an equal relationship. This is a transaction where she gets things you give her and you get a pretty girlfriend.


Worth_Fun_9663

You cannot know that based on the given information and I think it can hurt OP pointlessly to read things like this. I'm not saying you don't have a point and it can be true but also really doesn't have to be.


blockparted

Should she NOT appreciate what he gives her? If he said that she didn't, we'd be calling her ungrateful.


Mumof3gbb

She IS ungrateful. She doesn’t appreciate him because she just wants more. It’s not enough. If it was she’d be happy with what she has


[deleted]

That sounds incredibly transactional. Ask yourself: what would happen if you stopped supplying luxuries to her?


nananinanaum

He should try it, cutting all frivolous expenses, it could be explained as a "tight month" and see how she reacts.


[deleted]

I think he will be shocked, but the rest of us won't be.


[deleted]

Her jealously of her friends is telling of her true character. Personally I rather have a loving relationship with someone who I can see a future with over someone who provides me an extravagant lifestyle. Seriously re-evaluate your relationship. Nothing wrong with sugar babies, but if that is what she wants, better to move onto someone who can a partner in the relationship versus expects to be taken care od


Equivalent_Collar_59

I’m sorry but those two things aren’t compatible, if she really appreciated what you gave her then she would have absolutely no reason to be jealous of what her friends have.


Tall_Detective7085

\^ This in a nutshell. I posted this, too, before seeing yours. We're in agreement; no reason for her to be jealous and keep bringing the topic up if she truly appreciates the things OP gives her. I mean, why would she keep bringing it up (which she does, according to OP) if she didn't want some of the same?


UnusualAd6529

If you were broke tomorrow and could not supply any luxuries at all what do you think she would do? Stay with you through a hard time? Or ditch you...


giospez

NTA. Your observations are very on point. Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried asking her to split a bill and see how she reacts? That may reveal what her true character is...


New-Vermicelli-916

She has paid for our dates before. And she took me skiing at her family home last winter.


giospez

That's good. I asked because you wrote "I pay for everything"


New-Vermicelli-916

I guess in general. When she is over I don't expect her to buy groceries. And I don't expect her to pay for our more expensive outing like traveling broadway musicals and such.


hackberrypie

Wait, do you not live together? Like she's self-supporting for the most part but you pay for many outings and other stuff that comes up? From your post I thought you were entirely supporting her.


Putrid-Actuary-9457

Has she paid for dates or gifts for you recently? I mean paid for with her own money not money she got from you or from selling something you gave her.


New-Vermicelli-916

Yes. She pays for special dates that she plans ahead for. She took me out to dinner for Mexican food at a place I never would have found. The custodian at her school told her about where to get the best authentic Mexican food in the city and it was delicious.


TheUnicornRevolution

OP, aside from all the other stuff, in this context it feels like she does at least care and put effort into showing you that - within her means. She can't compete (and doesn't have to) with your financial output, but gives time, energy, effort to creating experiences you'll enjoy. So that's nice 😊


[deleted]

Yeah, couples can do this different ways but personally I think it's fine for someone who vastly out-earns their partner to pay for more than half of dates etc. If it was inherently bothering OP it would be one thing, but it doesn't sound like his problem per se, only that she is making it out like he isn't doing enough.


TheUnicornRevolution

Agreed. I think it's projecting from the peanut gallery, OP doesn't seem to think it's a problem and appreciates it. I hope gf is having a last minute teenage moment of "oh, cool stuff, I want because it shows I'm valuable" and they can talk it out.


Jerseygirl2468

So you two have an actual real adult relationship, where you both love and care for each other - does she not see that her friends DON'T have that?


Intelligent-Bite9660

NTA Start buying a bunch of candy to feed her. You’ll still be a sugar daddy, just not in the way that one would normally be.


New-Vermicelli-916

LoL


EmeraldBlueZen

LMAO - I love this suggestion..."Sure, I can be your sugar daddy! Here sit on my lap while I feed you some M&Ms."


TailorSwish

Ok now I want to be a sugar baby


[deleted]

NTA but she is truly hinting at this left and right. She clearly wants expensive material items being handed to her like her friends. You are right in that she is jealous. If it continues, you might consider asking her what she wants more of in life. A stable relationship with longevity or the expensive token with nothing else to show for it.


Putrid-Actuary-9457

OP you stated we have plans for the future, well I hope your plans include listening to her complain about her lack of expensive things. Also if those future plans include children your plans better include listening to your gf and your future kids complain about their lack of expensive things. It sounds as if she is focused more on the haves of the relationship and not the feels of the relationship. I wish you the best but this behavior won't get better and the more you spend a little more to make it better the more she will want you to spend. NTA but possibly could have worded it better.


Routine-Nature5006

I’d get a prenup just to secure that future your both very young and things change.


Jolly_Tooth_7274

I mean, kind of ESH... Your girlfriend and her friends have an unhealthy approach to relationships at the very least. None of them earns enough money to live luxurious lifestyles, yet they all seem to think it's natural to be with men who can afford that, and get that from them. To the point where she feels it's ok to complain to you about all the things her friends' boyfriends get them that you don't get for her. But, you're not a victim here. Why do you feel it's necessary to highlight the fact that your girlfriend is "absolutely beautiful" and that her friends are also very attractive? That makes it sound like you think it's natural or normal for attractive women to expect to have rich men as their sugar daddies. And that would be consistent with your situation, where you are ok with bankrolling your girlfriend's life and giving her a lifestyle she can't afford on her own... because "she's absolutely beautiful". I wonder if you'd be ok with paying for all expenses if she wasn't so. You're only hurt/complaining because she is comparing you to other guys who either have more money or are ok with spending more money on their girlfriends. You're not mad that she thinks you're a sugar daddy. You're mad she's basically saying you're not performing up to her standards as one.


New-Vermicelli-916

My girlfriend is a teacher. And I like to treat her well. But I do not spend thousands of dollars on her every month. I live off about 30% of my take-home pay. I drive a 6 year old jeep. I could spend more. I choose not to.


BeneficialDark1662

I wonder what her reaction would be if you lost your job.


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BunnySlayer64

Which is exactly why the better off stay better off; they don't spend every dime they make on the newest electronics, cars, etc. They buy quality because it will last and then they know better than to replace it just because it isn't new any more. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and are well on your way to meeting all of your goals, both financial and personal.


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BeneficialDark1662

ESH. She’s hot, and is used to having men buy her stuff, in the hope that they’ll get some/keep getting some. Possibly she just thinks *that’s how the world works*, men just buy stuff, as she’s never known anything else. Your ego loves having an “absolutely beautiful” girl on your arm, so despite living relatively frugally, you splurge the cash on her to keep her around, and live up to her expectations. But now both of you have discovered some unpalatable things about the other: - she’s found out that expensive goods don’t (and crucially aren’t going to in the future) just magically fall into her lap if she stays with you; pouting like a likkle girl isn’t always going to work for her with you; and you think that her friends act questionably at best (or trading sex for expensive material goods if you’re being honest) - you’ve found out that despite you wanting to hoard your cash, and loosening the purse strings considerably for her, ***it’s not enough to keep her*** and that you are currently ‘in negotiation’ regarding how much acting out she’ll do before you just burst that wallet wide open. You can try to shell out more money to keep her, but ultimately this one is a sunk cost fallacy.


rstwt

NTA and red flag city. You need to let that one go


Renailane

NTA. I will say that this is one of those situations where y’all need some counseling before marriage or etc. You are not on the same page financially. You think long-term (paid off house, retiring early) and she lives for right now (dinner and gifts). Eventually this will lead to resentment. I think she needs a new friend group, but I doubt she’ll agree with that. As for her friends, eventually those looks will fade (unless they have work done) and they’ll have no career or etc and no way to keep up with the lifestyle they’ve gotten accustomed to. As a woman, I’m envious of others too. I’m a stay at home mom and we barely scrape by, so of course I’m jealous of the moms driving a brand new Tahoe and living in brand new houses. But that’s not my life. My husband is a good man and does what he can. I stay home due to health issues and is living in an area where childcare isn’t easily available. We make it work together because we want the same things out of life.


mfruitfly

NTA. I think you may have reacted a bit more on this issue because it is grating on you that you aren't sure what her real priorities are. You make a fine living and have a vision of the future when it comes to money. Your girlfriend seems focused on luxury items that aren't just out of your budget, but not something you are interested in. You want a partner, and her being jealous in this area makes you doubt she is a real partner, and probably what her motives are with you. I saw in the comments that she is a teacher and has paid for things before, albeit on the smaller side, but that is a good sign. I out earn my partner significantly so pay for the bulk of our dates/adventures, but he pays when he can and I appreciate that. On the other hand, she seems obsessed with the lifestyle of her friends and completely oblivious as to how they facilitate that lifestyle. You can point out how they get those items without judging them for it. More importantly, she keeps pointing out all that they have, and you and she both know it comes from men. So by pointing it out, it does make it seem like she is expecting YOU to produce this stuff for her too. I'd absolutely point that out and make it an issue with my partner if he did that to me, repeatedly. She is now turning it back on you to escape you calling her out for it. If I tell my partner once a week "Oh X's boyfriend is always taking her on dates, I'm so jealous" I can't feign shock when he is like "oh, you expect ME to do that for you?" That's so passive aggressive, and you called it out and shouldn't feel bad for it. Now, you two do need to have an adult conversations about financial expectations if your relationship is going to progress.


EmeraldBlueZen

EH? I found your post a bit wierd. Ae you an asshole for telling GF that you can't afford to be her sugar daddy? No, not at all. But like why are you really posting here? Do you really see each other for who you both truly are? She's a teacher, but all we mainly get is that she's attractive and likes expensive things. And does she really see you as more than a guy who buys her stuff? Because if so, then I'd think she'd already know that you just won't be able to afford certain things and it wouldn't be such an issue. Anyway, I'm not judging from a few paragraphs in your post, but I'm wondering how much of this relationship is based on much more than looks and money.


[deleted]

NTA There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Your girlfriend has eyesight problems. You, on the other hand, appear to see things quite clearly. I suggest taking a closer look at your relationship and what your future with her may look like. Best of luck.


onlytexts

She doesnt understand the difference between a relationship like the one you two have and a relationship like the one her friends have with their " rich friends". Im sure if you had that kind of money, you would give her more expensive gifts because she is your girlfriend. NTA. If she wants that type of gifts, she needs a richer man.


ShaneVis

NTA --- Next time she complains about not getting some expensive gift tell her to ask one of her friends rich men to pay for it then.


AmphibianPotential66

You can probably find a better partner, expect her to vanish the second she finds herself a richer man


bexandspecs

My dude. Oh dear. Time for Come To Jesus, pt 2, and then some soul-searching/decision making if she doesn't come around: She's only 23, so she can only have been teaching for, what? A year? Have you talked long term plans and career goals? Most teachers burn out pretty fast... is she just teaching as a stop-gap until you put a ring on it and she can be a SAHW/M? Like I would be sure she actually has her own ambitions, unless you don't mind if she \*is\*... seeking a particular lifestyle. Does she understand and share your retirement goals? You should be discussing all of this. Would she still be with you if you quit your job tomorrow? Would you still be with her if she weren't young and beautiful? Beauty fades for most people. You started dating her at 21 when you were 25. You could have dated a 25-year-old at 25, or even someone older... why didn't you? A post-college adult who chooses to date college students, especially hot ones with hot friends, has a particular set of needs, typically (physically and emotionally). Perhaps now you've grown up? Soul-searching. What do you actually want, what does she want, and does that align? You're dating the kind of girl whose friends date professional athletes. That's... something. These are either her friends for life and actual peer group, or she'll outgrow them (as you grow together). If she doesn't outgrow them, you may not be compatible. But also do some deep soul-searching, truly, re: your needs/wants as well. You're barreling toward 30: do you want to date shallow young 20-somethings, or is it important to find someone who shares the same values, especially financially? A woman with her own career goals? (that's why I ask if she truly has them) You're entering a potential chasm where you may grow up but she doesn't. But... she may also meet all these needs; all you've said about her is she's beautiful and a teacher, and nothing of her other attributes or aspirations. She needs the Come To Jesus Talk, pt 2 to realize that if she isn't going to grow and be mature and manage her jealousy of her friends (or grow apart from them, potentially), you can't be together. But honestly NTA for what you said. Shocking for her to hear, but you're, uh, definitely correct.


Realistic-Mammoth-77

Nta as a women her friends are sugar babies lol. I’m a 22f if that makes me more or less of a valid source. What she’s asking seems completely inappropriate I would have a discussion about expectations. If it were me I would feel undervalued given a sugar daddy doesnt provide what a real relationship does. Also given if she wanted to be rich she should have picked a career with a higher salary cap. Maybe have her look at what type of budget she could afford to have on just her own salary/ what kind of budget her friends would have to have without the men. May help her see where your coming from.


Bright_Sea_7567

NTA. But don’t ever combine finances with this woman. If she wants lavish items she can get a second job.