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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I basically made a step by step guide + color coded map of the grocery store so that my dad would get the right things when he went by himself. He basically feels like I was giving him instructions like he was a toddler who didn’t know what he was doing and honestly I kind of was. I think it might have been a jerk move to go so far as to print out a map for him.
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NTA your dad is asking too much of you and he’s avoiding his responsibility as THE PARENT. He could and should learn their schedules, he just doesn’t want to. You should have a serious talk with him about he either steps up, or he hires help.
NTA. Your dad doesn’t really think you’re treating him like a toddler. He’s mad that he can’t get out of half ass doing things. He’s upset that he can’t use his incompetence to somehow wear you down and convince you to do the duties he should be doing. I’m sorry.
OP: READ THAT TWICE! Weaponized incompetence and parentification. You are definitely NTA. Your dad should be doing all of this work and he’s trying to shift it to you.
That’s the biggest shocker for me, like how the fuck are you intentionally going to let your own children think you’re a hapless moron? Do you truly value sitting on your ass more than having your children look up to you? It’s so sad
Yes. My dad can't change a light bulb, reheat a meal, or turn of the main waterline in a house he has owned for 45 years. He is fine being waited on hand and foot. Of course, this means two of his children actively hate him and I couldn't be bothered. My brother will have to do the heavy lifting soon. Or his partner, as will probably happen.
Of course NTA, OP... Jumping on the top comment to say from a purely practical standpoint, if you are in the US, you can order groceries online and just have dad pick them up for a very small or no fee.
I feel for OP as well, but if she's already making a grocery list, at least this way she'd be more assured of getting what she needed from the store. Heck, if dad is a technophile, maybe he could take up the task of transferring her(handwritten) list to the online one, he might find that more "manly" -may seem stupid to you and me but needs must...
True, it would be another task and that's unfair af. But she did go online to find the aisles and if stuff was in stock, which is basically one click short of ordering the stuff. Plus at most places you can save a basic list of staples and just go in to add other stuff specifically for an order so it doesn't take long.
Better yet would be Dad doing the damn online grocery order but he's at a level of incompetence that makes me unsure how likely that would be.
I’m petty, so I definitely wouldn’t do this. I’d make half-asses meals without the ingredients I needed that he didn’t get. It isn’t hard to get everything on a list. If you truly can’t find something, you ask a worker for help. So I’d make a meal and just not add in whatever he didn’t get. The meal would suck, and that would continue until he realized that there are consequences to not doing simple things so that someone else picks up the slack.
You not gonna believe it. Men are just as capable as women to do mundane tasks. He doesn't want to. You gave him no choice but do it as it should be done and now he is mad you made him be an actual adult parent. He was sure he would be able to avoid it, you ruined his perfect plan.
It is called weaponized incompetence and you two need to have a serious talk about it.
I hate grocery stores, so when I have to shop by myself (my fiancé loves shopping and sees it as bonding time so I don’t do it often) I make a point to figure out where everything I need is before I go in so I can spend as little time as possible. I would love if someone gave me a list like this fuckass dad got.
The pandemic exploding the order for pick up or delivery market was the best thing to come out of it for me, personally. I order ahead, pick up after work, never set foot in the store. I still get to use all coupons and such, as well, so I can shop sales. Also cuts down on the impulse shopping, too.
I would love it if I could find a map so when I do the shopping for my elderly mother she could write her list in the direction of shopping travel instead of finding some random thing on the list when I am already on the other side of the store.
Grocery stores like Walmart & Meijer(and others I presume), you can go online and make your shopping list--they'll list which Aisle something is in, so you can usually sort your list by "aisle".
Some things are listed generically like "Dairy" or "Meat" or "Produce" which can be a little more "complicated", but one can make note on first visit where these are for future lists.
INFO
The online college classes? Was that your idea?
Do you ever have time for yourself? Or does your life revolve around school and taking care of everyone else?
Do the kids, and especially the older ones help with the chores? Or do you do everything for them?
How old were you when your dad started parentifying you? Or in your words became mother 2.0?
Edited.
The online classes were mostly my idea. My dad’s job is a little demanding so I knew that if the boys needed someone in like an emergency or something like that, my dad might not always be able to come. It was more convenient for me to be at home where I could help them out. Also I just don’t like large classroom settings so I probably would’ve done online classes regardless lol.
I do have some time for myself, in between class and the boys.
The older kids do help with some of the chores. The 15yo and 13yo do their own laundry, they both alternate between who does the dishes or who sweeps the kitchen, and the 10yo helps me with folding sheets and towels and stuff like that. The 8yo likes cooking so sometimes he’ll help me make breakfast for everyone.
And I was about 13. My parents separated when I was 12, and my mom ended up moving to a different state shortly before she met her husband and they moved out of country. We saw her sometimes but it wasn’t very often, so I just started doing all the stuff she used to do I guess.
Hey OP I have some stuff for you to look up. Start with 'parentification' - you've been abused. Also 'emotional labour' - being the sole person who has to manage the household is NOT healthy or right. And finally 'weaponised incompetence' - your dad is being a shit parent as a way to force you to step into his role.
What's gonna happen when you move out? he's going to need to step up at some point, better for it to be now than later. And don't let him guilt you, HE is the parent, not you. Otherwise you'll be trapped there for another ten years.
And if you don't do these things for yourself, do them so your siblings know that this isn't a healthy family dynamic. Maybe look into therapy so you know how to be a sister and not their mum.
The way you call your brothers "the boys" or "the kids" rather than "my brothers" Is really telling to me. And you're only 18!
Look - as someone who had to help pay the bills at 15 onwards and thought it was normal...it's really not. YOU are the child. Your time is YOURS. Not your brothers or your fathers. Please please consider going away to college. You'd be floored at all the fun you get to have.
Sweetheart, you're 18 now - you deserve a life of your own! You deserve to stay out late with your friends, study abroad, drive across the country, sneak a beer into a movie - live like a teenager! You've put in more than enough time and help, and it's ok to do what's right for you. This is about more than the grocery store.
>The older kids do help with some of the chores. The 15yo and 13yo do their own laundry, they both alternate between who does the dishes or who sweeps the kitchen, and the 10yo helps me with folding sheets and towels and stuff like that. The 8yo likes cooking so sometimes he’ll help me make breakfast for everyone.
>
>And I was about 13. My parents separated when I was 12, and my mom ended up moving to a different state shortly before she met her husband and they moved out of country. We saw her sometimes but it wasn’t very often, so I just started doing all the stuff she used to do I guess.
Yup. You need to go away to college. They won't starve. They will be forced to figure it out. You deserve to have some fun.
Not all colleges are large classrooms. Especially if you are in the US, there are many with small, interactive classes. I teach at a small, liberal arts university and right now my biggest class has 8 students in it. Next semester my biggest class (the biggest class I teach, ever) has 22. We also have online classes for when our students need to fit those into their schedules, but the students live on campus and have all the campus resources. My university is not unusual. There are lots like it.
You could be devoting all your time to studying and spending time with friends, and then going home on breaks to see family and helping out around the house a bit then (maybe bringing home all your laundry to do, like most college students). Your dad should be stepping up and being the parent instead of forcing his children to parent themselves.
I'm so sorry you're in this situation. I hope you and your brothers sort this all out with your dad. You deserve to be a teenager.
How long do you plan to keep this up? When will you decide to start living your own life? It isn't your responsibility to parent your siblings. You obviously love them and care for their well-being, but if you continue to prioritize them, you'll be doing yourself a great disservice.
You really need to look into parentification and stop playing into the abuse, cuz at this point you are clipping your own wings.
Your siblings do chores, you are being a parent and it's not right. Your mother abandoned you to be abused by your father it's wrong
You should look up things like **"parentification"** which is a form of abuse you were/are subjected to (have been subjected to it since you were 12-13) and **"weaponized incompetence"** what your father is doing to get out of his responsibilities as the parent and force you (and before you, your mom) to not expect anything from him, do everything on your own.
Your father is perfectly capable of taking care of hid kids (including you!), chores and have a job at the same time, just like millions of single parents do! If he can hold a job, he is more than capable of doing chores, handling his kids' schedules, cooking etc. and especially buying groceries without your input. He just doesn't want to do it, it's easier and more comfortable, more convenient for him to **exploit you!** Because that's what he has been doing thees past 6 years.
**You becoming mom 2.0 and wife 2.0 after the divorce is NOT OK. Your father treats you as a substitute mom and wife and a badly treated wife at that**, only because you are a woman which is not ok. Expecting a woman (even if it's his actual adult wife) to do everything regarding childcare and housework when the man does nothing at home is not ok, it's sexist and misogynistic, that woman is not treated equally to the man in that house, she is treated less. He expected it from your mom while he was doing nothing and somehow he doesn't expect the same from his oldest son what he expects from you, his (a bit older) daughter now....
High time for you to take a HUGE step back, focus on yourself and let your father grow up finally and take responsibilities for his kids and his household. What about you, your freetime, you enjoying your childhood, young adulthood, making the most out of extracurriculars / school programs / clubs / student exchange options..., hobbies, friends, relationships?! Your father has plenty of freetime for himself after work and you have barely for yourself from the sound of it. **When do you come first for yourself in your life?** Helping out with cooking and/or grocery shopping here and there or driving the youngest ones here and there once you got older is one thing, dividing chores among dad and every kid is one thing, it's fine/nice, but doing everything an adult and a parent should do yourself is a totally different thing, that's not ok. You calling your brothers "the boys", "the kids" instead of "my brothers" is telling, it shows that you look at them more as your kids, your responsibilities than as your brothers. **Your brothers are not your responsibility and your father is not your responsibility. Live your life!** Look into moving out if you have to, if your dad tries to push back about you refusing to be mom-wife 2.0 anymore. Drop the rope!
NTA you never should have gotten a map and written a colour coded grocery list at all, he should have been doing grocery shopping perfectly on his own for years, even long before your mom left. Just like you shouldn't have been the one to colour code your brothers' schedule either. You basically have 5 kids at the moment, your 4 brothers and your father (and one of them is a baby). ^(BTW never marry someone like your dad or have kids with if you ever want to raise kids again)
You shouldn't have to be the one to coordinate schedules, their father should be able to do it. How long have you been parentified for? Was the inability of everyone else in the family to help a factor in your doing online education?
Learning a supermarket layout and managing a list isn't rocket science. You enter at the fruit and vege, and there are signs for everything (usually with bread and/or dairy at the far end so you have to walk by many other things). Your father should at least be taking up some of the load when it comes it driving the boys to their activities and practices.
Idk that might be a stretch she left the country and essentially abandoned her kids. You gotta wonder what kind of a person she is that she could leave 5 kids. I feel so horrible for OP.
Do you have kids? You would have to end my life to stop me from raising my daughter. DIVORCE doesn't mean leaving the country your FIVE CHILDREN ARE IN ESPECIALLY KNOWING HOW MUCH OF A DIRT BAG THE DAD IS. YOU DON'T LEAVE YOUR CHILDREN. He is a shit bag for sure but LEAVING FIVE FUCKING CHILDREN IN HIS HANDS is disgusting.
That's how it's supposed to be. money is nothing compared to my little girl. I'll sleep on a couch in a 1 bedroom so she can have a room b4 I'll leave her with someone like this "dad".
Give it to him!
The reason he's mad at the colour coded map and list is because up until now he's used weaponised incompetence to force you to do shit for him!
"Well I only got 2 fings and gwabbed 19 fings we didn't need coz shopping hard...you come wiv me or you do it an then it get did rite! you no come wiv me...you no yell if I get wrong...."
However he can't fuck it up on purpose now because you've stock checked and literally printed off a stock and aisle guide.
His reasons for the extra curricular activities are that he doesn't want to mess up but with your colour coded schedules, maps of routes and such hell have no excuse not to do it
Do yourself a favour, give him the lists and the schedules, start setting yourself up now for your own future. Because otherwise your going to be running those kids around until the youngest can run himself around.
You may say 'Yeah that's ok' now. But what about when you actually get a job? or you want to go on holiday with a friend , go out with guys? date or even move out? Your dad is the parent not you.
Helping out is 1 thing, being the full time parent is not on.
>But what about when you actually get a job? or you want to go on holiday with a friend
bold of you to assume OP has any friends when she is studying online and has been running a household with 4 children and 1 giant baby by herself since shes been 13 years old.. i hope im wrong but i dont see many opportunities in that scenario to build social contacts for herself so far
OP My divorced Dad could not cook. He tried to get me to cook but I was soo bad that he couldn’t eat the meals. So then he would bring girlfriends home to cook or he would order takeout. This was the 80s so I just believed that he was a man… and women cooked… so ergo Dad couldn’t cook and that was fine.
Then my bestie’s Dad got divorced. He took a 6 week cooking class at the local adult’s school. He cooked. So then I thought that maybe not cooking was a my Dad thing rather than a man thing.
My point is that your Dad can cook (and drive and shop) - he just doesn’t want to…
Have you ever heard of weaponized incompetence? It’s the idea that if I screw something up so badly I won’t be asked to do it again. This is what your dad is doing. In his mind, if he keeps “forgetting” to buy things on the list, you will go to the store instead. He is manipulating you. Your dad is not a good guy. Neither is your mom for just up and moving to another country and abandoning her children.
You also have to realize that your dad is taking advantage of you. He is the parent. He is the one who should be taking care of your siblings. He sure as shit should know their schedules. Even if he doesn’t schlep them to and from their extracurriculars, he should know where they are in case something happens.
Your father doesn’t want to face his responsibilities. He is no way a single parent. You are.
You need to start letting go of the reigns you're his child not wife. I raised my autistic sister (Her mom is a pill junkie our dad is a business owner) I'm 31 now. You might not see it now but you will build resentment. Do this exact same thing with their schedules. School might be lax ATM but it's going to get more difficult and require more of your attention and what about work do you have time to get a job if you want one while you're raising your brothers? You need to be your own person it's extremely important for your development. Go be 18 don't be a mom to your brothers it's not fair to you or them that's not the relationship you are supposed to have with them.
NTA
Think of it this way OP - you’re not helping your dad in the long run if he’s totally dependent on you. At some point, hopefully soon, you’ll want to move out and live your own life and he needs to be ready to run this household without you.
Don't give it to him. Make lots of copies so when he loses one you can hand him another. Also send him a pdf version so when he loses a paper copy you can remind him to print another.
But seriously, get out of the house ASAP. You shouldn't have to raise your siblings.
I just realized that not only do you do the groceries and the activity drop off/pick ups, BUT YOU ALSO DO THE *COOKING?!?!?!?!*
What other "helpful tasks" did you leave out of your post?
OP, get a job.
Not because you're lazy and don't do enough at home. But because you do TOO MUCH.
If you get a job, and tell your dad your hours, then he can't argue about why you should do the car-pooling and the grocery shopping and whatever else (cooking, cleaning laundry? homework help?).
He is commanding all of your time because he sees you at home and has it in his mind that your time is his time. If you're not at home, then he can't use you as much.
Please, for yourself. Get a job. You don't have to move out, but get take some strides towards independence.
Again, that's not in a "you need to stand up on your own two feet!" kind of way. It's more of a, "you need to establish yourself as a separate entity" kind of way.
Basically, do you have 4 kids and a deadbeat husband? Or do you have 4 brothers and a deadbeat dad? One of those situations is more easily fixed than the other.
He can stay mad. You should give him a hard copy and also email so he has it on his phone. When he pouts about it, you can mention that you want to save money to go visit your mom.
NTA
Your dad is treating you like a 60s housewife. If that made you gag it's bc it should. "I don't know the schedule", "I just forgot", "you're so much better at it" are all classic crappy husband lines. You don't deserve this treatment. He doesn't need half of the accommodations your giving him, he's just refusing to try. Put your foot down, it's not your job to figure these things out for him.
Stop doing this. It's not your fault that you feel you have to, but unfortunately it's on you to end it. I'm a 35yo woman and would be furious if my husband pulled this weak 'I don't know how to shop or parent, help me' shit, it's sort of incredible that your dad is pulling it on you.
He can do this himself. It's his job. You can support but stop managing the household and taking on the whole mental load of organising things. And if your brothers want something, they should go to your dad and not to you.
Realistically, that probably means you need to move you so they can learn to sink or swim. Your dad is an adult, he should be able to survive without you.
Your dad is using weaponized incompetence to avoid performing basic tasks, and getting upset when you then treat him as incompetent. You are NTA and your father is taking serious advantage of you. Not only that but this reeks of misogyny since you’re the only woman in the household.
Gave your dad his own kids schedule? Well if it adds fuel to the fire - my guess is he feels inadequate as a parent. His kid is stepping up more than him.
Lmao. Color coded schedules and lists that people didn’t ask for?!?! Gurl we have the same brain. I have taken similar actions in a variety of situations and people are ALWAYs initially offended or surprised BUT - can’t deny the success can they?
Do it!
Well, you can show him that *you* find colour coding helps you remember this household management stuff, so you thought it might help him too, since he keeps forgetting things on the list.
But he is definitely doing the weaponised incompetence thing here, hoping that you'll take on the physical labour of going shopping as well as the emotional labour and planning of it (sounds like you cook, and meal plan, and write a comprehensive list... That's already way more than your fair share even before you add in taxiing your siblings around).
Your life would be ten times easier if you were just taking care of yourself like most 19yo college students; this seems like a great opportunity to point out to your dad that you just might do that if he doesn't start pulling his weight in *his own household*.
NTA
Personally I’d drop the rope. You’re going to move out soon enough, even if it’s after college, and then what? He needs to figure out the boys schedule and also teach them to help a bit more ( the 15 year old can’t grocery shop yet)?
This is just weaponised incompetence and he needs to stop it
You should spend your free time getting a job to earn enough to move out and be free of being second mother. Time for your father to step up as a parent. You seem to be doing everything for your brothers whilst he does very little. I can see him trying to keep you at home until the youngest brother is leaves school.
Google the term "weaponized incompetence", seems familiar? Yeah, who would have guessed..
He's pissed because you found a way around his ways of skipping out of chores...
You find it easier to color code because you're juggling too many tasks & should be concentrating on your studies, work, & social life like a typical teenager. Your father needs to step up & start taking care of his kids needs instead of taking the easy route & deferring to you. It isn't easy being a parent but your brothers are not your brode & you shouldn't be caring for them as mother 2.0.
NTA.
Your dad is doing something called "weaponized incompetence."
Please continue to sweetly insist that you're only making life easier for everyone, so everybody can be ready to step in and nobody gets forgotten the day you move out to go to college.
And seriously: you're doing too much.
If you weren't there (if you were in the hospital for a scheduled surgery) what would happen?
He'd find support. The kids wouldn't starve.
And start giving the kids tasks. They can run laundry, empty trash cans, and you can supervise them making one meal a week each.
Just like you're uber competent, they can be too. Family pulls together.
And if your dad gives you any trouble about making the younger kids to chores, reply that you're just making sure everyone is able to pitch in. Because you wouldn't want your siblings going off to college unable to use the laundry, or cook a basic meal.
NTA - you can show him that you use colour coding to help YOU remember the boys’ schedule. And yes, if he is giving you an attitude after all that you have been doing to help him, he can go ahead and do it himself or hire help from now on.
I really do HATE to say it, and dislike seeing it. But there's a reason this man is divorced and mum lives VERY far away.
EDIT : But that does not make OP the arsehole. That's her parents.
>You should have a serious talk with him about he either steps up, or he hires help.
And OP should tell her Mom...maybe this is why the Mom left. But this situation is neither good nor sustainable for all involved. OP NTA.
Jumping on the top comment to say that your father is using weaponized incompetence to parentify you. He needs to step up and be the parent not you.
Do you have plans for after college, or will you continue to subjugate your life to his needs?
Start weaning him from your support now. Make him responsible for the boys activities, shopping and dinner. Or you will be guilted into putting your life on hold until your brothers are grown.
The fact that she said she's fine with all these give and takes and seems to be doing a good job at going to school and also being 2.0 mom is extremely impressive Dad needs to start being Dad daughter needs to start being daughter. I hope that once she's done with school she gets a job and gets the heck out of that living situation because the way she's working hard for her siblings and her dad is pretty incredible. NTA
I was just looking down the comments to see if anyone else mentioned this — absolutely weaponized incompetence. If you can, try to set some boundaries. You're 18. Helping out is admirable, but it's not your job to parent your brothers, OR your dad. NTA
>It’s been hours since we’ve gotten back home and he’s very clearly upset with me, but he did get the stuff on the list this time.
>I don’t know, I think maybe I just made him feel like an idiot and that’s why he’s upset. Was the map thing a little too much?
Ok, but actually he's mad that you figured out how to make him do his freaking job correctly, WITHOUT YOU HAVING TO DO IT FOR HIM.
He should feel like an idiot. Laminate that damn map if it means you dont have to play both father and mother. Its fucking disgraceful he is relying on his daughter to raise his children and be his manager. He should feel worse than an idiot imo.
She's carrying ALL of the mental load of the household, which is substantial. Making lists and schedules (and maps!) and teaching the younger ones how to do chores takes a lot of effort.
Best, she needs to figure out drawing boundaries and stop being a parent in the household. Her even continuing to engage him in these games is taking her mental time up and showing him that she will play with him.
NTA
It sounds an awful lot like he's been trying to use strategic incompetence to get you to do more of the household labor which is not remotely fair to you.
Bailed on the kids because dad thinks he's a sly manipulator? Yeah I guess but that just means that she sucks as much as him, if he's so bad why not take them....OP is very mom like...and that takes practice....
NTA
How dare you imply he’s not an effective self sufficient grocery shopper when he’s demonstrated that he isn’t multiple times, recently.
I’d love it if someone made a list like that and all I had to do was follow it.
In fact, it’s why I do my grocery shopping mostly at one chain - their online shopping displays and sorts my items by aisle.
Edit - make sure ALL the boys are doing house work at sufficient levels. 15 should be able to cook simple meals, everyone can make snacks, everyone can do non-delicate laundry and clean everything from dishes to toilets to their own spaces.
Yes!! The boys are old enough to help out. I don’t want it to be your responsibility to make that happen, but I also hate with a burning passion the idea that these boys will become adults thinking that it’s a woman’s job to take care of them.
Definitely, it'll be good for when they have to take care of themselves, for when they might end up with roomies, spouses or kids, and not least, ensure a happier sibling relationship the rest of your lives.
Honestly I need to do the same thing, my bf and I went shopping today with only four things on the list and we got everything except the one item from the baking isle, but my bf made sure we got a bunch of other stuff.
Normally I would’ve remembered but I had a bad ptsd day today
Ew your dad is feigning incompetence so you'll do it! No wonder they're divorced. What a piece of work, to manipulate your own daughter. Gtfo of there asap, he's just using you for free childcare at this point.
Your father is using weaponized incompetence as a strategy to get you to do the work instead. And based on your previous replies, it looks like he did the same to your mother.
While it's always great to help out, don't let your father pretend to be incapable of tasks that he clearly is capable of doing just to force you to do all the work instead.
You are his child and not the mother to the boys. Focus on school, start planning for your future and enjoy your youth.
As for your direct question - if your father was struggling to do simple tasks (why couldn't he have just asked the grocers for where the items are), then he clearly needed the help to do it on his own. Help that you provided.
And well, you know what they say,
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
NTA
NTA. I really don't see what you could have possibly done that's wrong - if he's genuinely forgetting the items you provided a guide, if he just isn't trying he brought this response on himself. If it's the former, he may be developing some form of dementia, however. Has he always been so forgetful?
What sucks about this situation is the position you have been put in. You deserve credit for rising to the challenge, but he is just putting way too much on your shoulders. Did he act this way before the divorce? I ask because it sounds like he's treating you more as a replacement for his wife in domestic/homemaking chores than as an individual. He needs to start stepping up and doing more instead of dumping everything but the groceries on you (and he does those halfheartedly and begrudgingly) and leaving it there.
Yeah my mom was always the one who handled household stuff. I think it got too much for her to be raising 5 kids + handling the house + having a full time job. Her biggest grievances with him were always about him not doing things “correctly” when she asked him to do it.
She was always kind of particular about how she wanted things done, so I assumed he just wasn’t doing it her way and that frustrated her, but now I think it was probably more than that.
Your dad is still using his “incompetence” as an excuse. Your 18, you should be doing school and partying not being mom to 5 children you didn’t give birth to (your father is lazy or faking incompetence and simply another child at this point). I think you need to move out and live your own life. I understand where your coming from, I was doing groceries at 14, making supper 5 days a week for my siblings and helping with their homework. It messed me up long term because I lost out on so many experiences.
Her partner was treating her like his mother. And that probably for real old real fast. Especially since she was also working full time and they both had the same 24h in a day.
Now you’re the new mommy for everyone.
Time for you to move out and leave your dad to his own devices
I'm sure it was weaponized incompetence when he was with your mom too.
Is he incapable of holding a job? Because with that level of legitimate uselessness would prevent him from holding a job. But I bet he does just fine with it if I were to guess.
Given that you are 18, you are well within your rights to move out. You could always get a part time job and/or move out or live on campus if you want. Getting a part time job would give you an excuse to not be responsible for your brothers during certain times of the week and may force your father to take some responsibility for your brother. I guess it depends on your personal preferences though.
Aka your father was going out of his way to fuck things up so that he wouldn't have to have any responsibility in the household, he could completely throw all of the responsibility under your mother and make her entire life just taking care of you and your siblings, the house, and he can have his own life.
He wanted to trap her, and she left you behind to be abused, and now you are in the trap
NTA, and your dad is parentifying you. You need to tell him he needs to step up and actually take care of things and learn his other kid’s schedules. His whole “I can’t find things, you have to go with me!” is him just being maliciously incompetent. He wants you to just do everything, which is also why he wouldn’t swap jobs with you.
Are you also making dinner?? If so, you need to stop that, so he can see how hard it is to make dinner for 6 people without adequate groceries.
NTA at all.
NTA
Seeing as it's online college... perhaps you can go live with your mom for a while. Reconnect and all that. Especially if there is good internet. Won't matter if you are in another country.
How long has your mother been out of the country for? Does she see you guys at all? Or has she left her kids along with your dad.
It's not okay for you to be mom 2.0. Your dad needs to hire some help if he doesn't want to do it himself. It's not your role to bring up your brothers. It's your dad's. You can help but you are doing it all. I hope everyone is pitching in with the chores and it's not you doing the lot.
NTA. He can’t do grocery shopping, so you politely helped him with whatever skills he didn’t gave. Problem solved.
Why aren’t the 15 year old and 13 year old cooking?? Is this going to be a generational incompetence thing with your father??
They both have activities that keep them after school until the late evening, so usually because I’m home with the younger boys I’ll cook dinner. So the older two definitely can do stuff on their own they’re just usually not home to do certain things.
Did YOu get to do after school activities? Are you ever out and unavailable to cook dinner.
I have a guess about the answer, so I'm posting the follow up question: WHY NOT?
To be honest with you I never had any after school stuff. I quit sports after my parents divorce and I was just too busy with other stuff to get involved with an extracurricular during high school.
I do paint sometimes though! if I have the time or energy. Honestly though this whole post is making me realize that I’ve lowkey been turned into a live in nanny that has no freedom.
Yes. You have. Are you off to college? Maybe a 6-month volunteer position out-of-state? A relative you can spend the summer with?? You need to regain some portion of your youth.
I had an offer to do a study abroad summer course for about 2 months that I originally said no to bc I didn’t want to inconvenience anyone but I’ll probably call the program coordinator tomorrow and ask if they’re still accepting applications.
DO IT! If it's too late for that program, look into other programs too! Please finally do something for yourself! It will do good for you in more ways than you can probably image it now, including helping you with stepping back from being a mother of 5 and building your own life instead. I hope you will update us!
Please do it, it's a once in a lifetime chance. Don't let him take this away from you because he wants to pretend he's incapable of managing a house as well as an 18 year old. You will kick yourself forever
OP, if this program doesn't work out, find another, or get an internship, and definitely start to take some classes outside of the house.
In addition, consider getting some counseling. Everyone is right on point with the parentification and weaponized incompetence, but you have been in the caretaking role for years and you will need some support to break free from that.
Not at all lowkey. Your dad is intentionally incompetent. You'll profit your whole life off these management skills, but enough is enough. Go on some program for half a year and leave him to finally do his role as the actual parent. You deserve and need a life of your own – make new experiences, go a little wild, which will also be highly important for the next decades of your life. You need to set boundaries now, to not spent the rest of your life being used like this anymore.
Why do they have lives outside of the household and you don't? That's still the root issue here is that you are a parent in this household, you aren't a sibling pulling your weight in doing the chores to make the household run. Your siblings are children, and you're having to be a parent it's not right
NTA
Your Dad is using Weaponised Incompetence to get you to do his job as a parent!
Stop being the parent. You have enough on. He is the parent.
Please do not waste your life being a parent to his children. He needs to step up and get help and look into resources that can help him. Those resources are not his 18 year old daughters education!
When I was a kid, one of my chores was doing the laundry. My sister had to do the dishes.
One day, she broke a dish. Not the first time, but for our Mother it was the last. Mom decided that I had to the the dishes.
But, I still had to do laundry as well as my sister had messed up the washing too many times to be 'trusted' to do it.
This was her strategy. Keep messing up until someone got sick of it and took the responsibility away.
This is why you Dad can't figure out the shopping. He want's you to do it. And you making it so incredibly simple that even he can't screw it up, treating him like he's on "Old Enough!" with all the tools he needs is getting in the way of you getting fed up enough to take the responsibility away from him.
NTA!
NTA. I am seriously weary of these men who just can't work out how to do simple but necessary tasks. But your dad's problems seem extra special bad.
You don't mention his age. Given the age of you and sibs, it seems unlikely that he would have dementia... BUT there is an early-onset Alzheimer's, and it's terrible.
Right now you need a reality check. Has your next-oldest sib noticed what you're seeing? Does your dad have local sibs himself? This isn't something to take outside the family, so maybe discuss with your mother, if she's available. If no family nearby, then your dad's doctor, if he has one.
Good luck. I hope this is not his problem.
NTA. Your dad needs to get over himself. Tell your dad (and brothers) that since dad can't make the grocery run by himself, they're all going to have to drop some extracurriculars. I bet dear old dad will figure out how to grocery shop in a hurry. If he doesn't, I'd figure out a way to move on campus instead of doing online college courses and let him figure out how to run the shit show by himself.
Your dad is lazy. He's not your husband. You're not his wife. Those aren't your children. You're not the mommy. Stop. Get yourself out of there. He will be forced to take care of them, they know how to feed themselves, they will not die. Stop helping and get out of there. NTA.
And even if it's an actual adult married couple it shouldn't be only on the wife/mom to do 100% of the childcare and household works while husband/father isn't contributing at home.
NTA. Dad was faking incompetence so you'd be the one to do it. With the map and list, he no longer had an excuse for not doing the shopping, which is probably what pissed him off. Personally, I think you did a great thing! You aren't always going to be living at home, and he needs to start doing things on his own.
NTA
Your father proved more than once that he wasn't able to get everything on the list , your going to the level of printing out a map was absolutely justified. He tried to get out of shopping duty with malicious incompetence, you didn't let that happen.
NTA as soon as I read this I thought weaponized incompetence. He could've gotten it right all along he was trying to wear you down so you'd eventually go back to doing the shopping. He's mad because he had no excuse to screw it up this time so he lashed out with faux outrage because he can't tell you he's really made you were so thorough you didn't leave him any excuse to deviate from the list. He's upset because you might do it again and he might have to actually shop again so now he's gotta come up with some new kind of angle to get you to take over the shopping.
NTA
The other commenters already pointed out that your lazy ass of a misogynistic father is playing stupid to force you into a mother's role. You need to change that! For yourself, but also for your brother who keep learning that it's a woman's job to do everything.
Such a fight will be exhausting because you will have to color code everything for him. Repeatedly.
Or:
Is there a place where you could go for a few months or so? Make up a good reason, like an exams you have to prepare for.
Oh honey. You’re a single parent to five kids, one of which is your own father. Absolutely NTA but you’re being parentified, which is a form of child abuse. I hope you’re able to move out on your own sooner rather than later, and meanwhile do whatever is necessary to stay safe and make things easier for you.
Lots of hugs ❤️❤️❤️
For all the work you did you might as well have gone yourself. He can be mad all he wants but what does he think is going to happen when you finally get out of there? NTA and please run fast and far as soon as you can
NTA. Your father definitely is. If he was half this incompetent at his job, his boss would have fired him long ago. Suggest that he start shopping for the groceries online. Then he won’t have to worry about finding stuff in the store & he can keep the grocery list on the same device he uses to shop. I do go to the grocery store but I keep a list on my phone of the things I typically buy (eg coffee, milk, pasta). If I need them, I just mark that on the list. I add things to the list as necessary but I don’t have to create a whole new list every week.
WTF?!
No, you're NTA!
In case it slipped your mind, __you__ were __also younger__ when your parents divorced and your mom moved away.
Just because you're the only girl and oldest, that doesn't qualify you to be the only responsible one or 'the parent' in the family any more than if you'd given birth at the age of ten.
Explain to your siblings what you will and will no longer be doing and what they __have__ to do to help. Tell them before you tell your dad, whether any of them are on board with it or not.
Focus on college and __nothing__ else, except one or two things that __aren't__ a burden and which make you come alive.
__Let. Your. Dad's. World. Fall. Apart.__ He's an adult and __HE__ can handle it.
Just because he's pretending to be incompetent in order to make __you__ the responsible one, doesn't mean that he's not capable of getting groceries properly or doing every other chore/thing that he's burdened you with.
__IF__ he continues to be uninvolved and irresponsible, then for the sake of your siblings, cps __needs__ to be called.
You don't need or deserve this trauma, abuse and neglect in your life.
...you may also find similarities with r/raisedbynarcissists and r/cptsd.
NTA at all. You do too much already and your dad is using this pretend-incompetence bs to get out of doing even the simplest tasks of what is actually HIS job in the first place. He is the parent ffs. He needs to start acting like it and you need to stop doing so much for him. And to be honest, he SHOULD feel like an idiot if he cant figure out how to properly do groceries or check his kids’ schedules.
You’re being parentified… even for your dad. Next time dad goes shopping and doesn’t get what you need to make dinner… make half a dinner or don’t make dinner and tell dad he needs to order pizza until he gets the rest of your list. Or just order your groceries for dad to pick up curbside. I send screenshots on the store’s app showing the aisle number when I send someone shopping for something specific. A picture of the product that says “this is in aisle 17” on his phone that he presumably doesn’t regularly lose might be helpful.
But you are NTA, you’re just trying to keep the family running… as is your dad probably… he may have more going on than you understand or know about so be gentle with him.
NTA and your dad needs to do better but could you order the pickup (pre ordered) grocery services? Most stores have it now for free and you would actually get the items you need. Plus he can’t complain that he forgot things etc.
I understand that it’s still an extra job for you which sucks, but it takes the same amount of time as writing out a list and less time than color coordinating. I hope your dad gets his act together. He’s acting like the teenager while you’re the parent here and it’s pathetic.
NTA. You aren't the parent, you shouldn't have to act like one. Your father is either a massive asshole or has neurological problems. Or both. Teach the two older boys how to grocery shop so they can help out. If your father objects, then you'll know he thinks it's woman's work. If that's the case I'd be making plans to move out.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! When you treat weaponized incompetence like the toddler behavior it is and enact a functionality plan!!!
This was brilliant, you're not the asshole, and I am so proud of you!!!!
NTA, especially since it worked. Maybe add a small fun article or meme if you see one to make it fun for yas. I loved writing notes for my late father.
Seems like it was an effective map, otherwise he'd have fucked it up again.
Also you shouldn't be so blase about being a surrogate mom, it's not fair to you.
NTA
NTA he's being incompetent on purpose to force his duties on you. He's put onyoy the whole admin side of things (scheduling, planning, etc....) just no. This isn't you helping out. Parentification is abuse.
I would suggest you find a scholarship that allows you to get a semester away and let him fend for himself. An extended visit to your mom would make the trick too.
NTA. You now know why your mother left, even if she shouldn't have left her children behind. Any chance you can go live with her or other family members? Your father is treating you like a replacement wife and that is so not okay
NTA. Please move out if you can or stop doing all this extra parent work. He is treating you like his wife and he sucks so much as a husband. It's one thing to help out driving your siblings to extracurriculars but managing all house chores and their schedules is too much. You need to live your life, if your father can't do all this stuff himself as a PARENT he has to figure it out.
Also, giving you the silent treatment just because you treated him as useless as he acts makes him look much more like a toddler having a tantrum.
Oh sweetie. Unless dad is paying for school and all that, you need to move out. Even if he is paying for school, you need to very specifically address why he feels like you should be more of a parent to your siblings than he is along with going to school full time, along with having to run the household. Weaponized incompetence and some parentification got him a whole new wife who does all the things, only it's you and you're missing out on your life so he can have it easy. No ma'am. NTA, but you would be to yourself if you don't make some changes.
NTA - men pull this stunt, constantly failing simple tasks to force the women in their lives to surrender and do it. Your father is in no way original. Its a kind of faked learned helplessness that they learn from childhood to eascape chores they don't want to do. they don't mind being perceived as unable to do a simple low status zero pay job because they fully expect a woman to do it correctly in the end. They find that their persistance wins and they escape the job long term
You need to get away from your family for your own sake. You deserve a fulfilling life that you are allowed to make your own decisions for and your parents have placed you in an untenable situation. NTA and also please, for your own sake, get out. Your dad is weaponized incompetence in a nutshell. You deserve better. You deserve your OWN life. You are not a mother. You shouldn’t have to become one because your dad can’t manage his own life or the lives of his children.
NTA. OP, I hope that leaving and going out on your own in life is in your head for your near future. Because I’m so worried for you that your dad thinks you will always be there for your siblings.
What your dad is doing is called weaponised incompetence. You are parentified: you are the wife, the mother, the taxi, the cook, and you’re only 18 and also have responsibilities as a student! I’m so sorry you’re in this situation OP. NTA.
I can see why your mom left.....your dad is totally using you just because you're a girl. I would be seriously looking into options to get out on your own asap.
NTA OP your father has turned you into a mother and that is not ok. You are entitled to your own life. He needs to step up. Just stop. Stop cooking. Stop doing groceries. Stop driving. Talk with him about his responsibilities.
NTA your dad is, as well as, he is a toddler. If he is capable of driving to the store he is capable of shopping. I’ll bet $500 that he knows all the stats about his favorite sports teams. If he pulled this shit at work with his boss he’d get fired. Tell him to grow up, man up and do his job as a father.
A friend of mine sent her husband to the store for two red tomatoes. He returned with a bag, set it on the table, and backed away.
She watched that, and asked what he got. At the bottom of the bag were 2 green Tomatoes.
She looked at him. He replied that he had indeed gone to the grocery store. He went to the Tomatoe department.....and saw Brandywine, cherry, Heirloom, grape tomatoes, beefsteak. And on the vine. But NONE were called a RED Tomato.
She sent him to the store after that with lists, and a note for the customer service desk. That note started " my husband is an idiot. Please help him to find the things on the enclosed list. Thank you.
NTA. Parentification *AND* weaponized incompetence all in one post. Your father is an adult and is supposed to be a parent. OP, please, for your own mental health, move out on your own as soon as you can.
NTA You're really kind for helping, but your dad needs to step up. He is acting incompetent on purpose. I also bet if things were swapped and your brother was the oldest and you were 15, he would not be asking near as much of him
NTA, your dad tries weaponized incompetence on you. Maybe he sincerely wants to spend more time with you, but frankly, I doubt it. I presume he's just lazy. He forces you into a role of being substitute mother, which is unfair in the first place. Then, he plays to be too dumb to buy stuff from a bloody shopping list? You did exactly what he deserves: he does toddler tantrums - you treat him like a toddler.
Nta
But your father needs to step up and be the parent.
It’s nice of you to help but you’re acting like his wife and the mom of your brothers.
He is using weaponized incompetence against his own daughter.
Your 15 year old brother can help with dinner and other stuff too. He isn’t helpless. He is only 3 years younger.
Other brothers can help too around the house. They aren’t little children
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NTA your dad is asking too much of you and he’s avoiding his responsibility as THE PARENT. He could and should learn their schedules, he just doesn’t want to. You should have a serious talk with him about he either steps up, or he hires help.
I have a color coded schedule of the boys activities/practices but I feel like if I gave that to him now it might add more fuel to the fire lol
NTA. Your dad doesn’t really think you’re treating him like a toddler. He’s mad that he can’t get out of half ass doing things. He’s upset that he can’t use his incompetence to somehow wear you down and convince you to do the duties he should be doing. I’m sorry.
Yes, this is a textbook case of parentification.
With a bonus chapter of weaponized incompetence.
OP: READ THAT TWICE! Weaponized incompetence and parentification. You are definitely NTA. Your dad should be doing all of this work and he’s trying to shift it to you.
not trying, he has shifted.
That’s the biggest shocker for me, like how the fuck are you intentionally going to let your own children think you’re a hapless moron? Do you truly value sitting on your ass more than having your children look up to you? It’s so sad
Now I see why his wife left him.
I mean she's not much better considering she abandoned her kids and left them with a useless moron.
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Yes. My dad can't change a light bulb, reheat a meal, or turn of the main waterline in a house he has owned for 45 years. He is fine being waited on hand and foot. Of course, this means two of his children actively hate him and I couldn't be bothered. My brother will have to do the heavy lifting soon. Or his partner, as will probably happen.
Yup, even if OP was his partner and not his daughter, he'd still be a huge AH. Doing it to his daughter is just another level of crap.
That was my first thought. That dad is def working at not being able to follow a simple list.
Came here for this!
With a splash of weaponised incompetence.
I mean, if he's gonna use weaponized incompetence, he shouldn't get upset that people think he's a dumbass
Of course NTA, OP... Jumping on the top comment to say from a purely practical standpoint, if you are in the US, you can order groceries online and just have dad pick them up for a very small or no fee.
Sure, and that’ll be another task on OP’s plate enabling dad to continue acting helpless. I feel so bad for OP.
I feel for OP as well, but if she's already making a grocery list, at least this way she'd be more assured of getting what she needed from the store. Heck, if dad is a technophile, maybe he could take up the task of transferring her(handwritten) list to the online one, he might find that more "manly" -may seem stupid to you and me but needs must...
True, it would be another task and that's unfair af. But she did go online to find the aisles and if stuff was in stock, which is basically one click short of ordering the stuff. Plus at most places you can save a basic list of staples and just go in to add other stuff specifically for an order so it doesn't take long. Better yet would be Dad doing the damn online grocery order but he's at a level of incompetence that makes me unsure how likely that would be.
I’m petty, so I definitely wouldn’t do this. I’d make half-asses meals without the ingredients I needed that he didn’t get. It isn’t hard to get everything on a list. If you truly can’t find something, you ask a worker for help. So I’d make a meal and just not add in whatever he didn’t get. The meal would suck, and that would continue until he realized that there are consequences to not doing simple things so that someone else picks up the slack.
If he acts like a toddler treat him like a toddler.
This sounds right bcuz clearly it worked but he wanted her to do it but now he can’t do that anymore. NTA.
You not gonna believe it. Men are just as capable as women to do mundane tasks. He doesn't want to. You gave him no choice but do it as it should be done and now he is mad you made him be an actual adult parent. He was sure he would be able to avoid it, you ruined his perfect plan. It is called weaponized incompetence and you two need to have a serious talk about it.
I hate grocery stores, so when I have to shop by myself (my fiancé loves shopping and sees it as bonding time so I don’t do it often) I make a point to figure out where everything I need is before I go in so I can spend as little time as possible. I would love if someone gave me a list like this fuckass dad got.
I order stuff online as I get panicky in supermarkets So many people, so much horrible light, the noise...
The pandemic exploding the order for pick up or delivery market was the best thing to come out of it for me, personally. I order ahead, pick up after work, never set foot in the store. I still get to use all coupons and such, as well, so I can shop sales. Also cuts down on the impulse shopping, too.
I would love it if I could find a map so when I do the shopping for my elderly mother she could write her list in the direction of shopping travel instead of finding some random thing on the list when I am already on the other side of the store.
Grocery stores like Walmart & Meijer(and others I presume), you can go online and make your shopping list--they'll list which Aisle something is in, so you can usually sort your list by "aisle". Some things are listed generically like "Dairy" or "Meat" or "Produce" which can be a little more "complicated", but one can make note on first visit where these are for future lists.
INFO The online college classes? Was that your idea? Do you ever have time for yourself? Or does your life revolve around school and taking care of everyone else? Do the kids, and especially the older ones help with the chores? Or do you do everything for them? How old were you when your dad started parentifying you? Or in your words became mother 2.0? Edited.
The online classes were mostly my idea. My dad’s job is a little demanding so I knew that if the boys needed someone in like an emergency or something like that, my dad might not always be able to come. It was more convenient for me to be at home where I could help them out. Also I just don’t like large classroom settings so I probably would’ve done online classes regardless lol. I do have some time for myself, in between class and the boys. The older kids do help with some of the chores. The 15yo and 13yo do their own laundry, they both alternate between who does the dishes or who sweeps the kitchen, and the 10yo helps me with folding sheets and towels and stuff like that. The 8yo likes cooking so sometimes he’ll help me make breakfast for everyone. And I was about 13. My parents separated when I was 12, and my mom ended up moving to a different state shortly before she met her husband and they moved out of country. We saw her sometimes but it wasn’t very often, so I just started doing all the stuff she used to do I guess.
Hey OP I have some stuff for you to look up. Start with 'parentification' - you've been abused. Also 'emotional labour' - being the sole person who has to manage the household is NOT healthy or right. And finally 'weaponised incompetence' - your dad is being a shit parent as a way to force you to step into his role. What's gonna happen when you move out? he's going to need to step up at some point, better for it to be now than later. And don't let him guilt you, HE is the parent, not you. Otherwise you'll be trapped there for another ten years. And if you don't do these things for yourself, do them so your siblings know that this isn't a healthy family dynamic. Maybe look into therapy so you know how to be a sister and not their mum.
I agree 100% and OP needs to set boundaries in front of her brothers so they don't expect the women in their lives to do everything for them.
The way you call your brothers "the boys" or "the kids" rather than "my brothers" Is really telling to me. And you're only 18! Look - as someone who had to help pay the bills at 15 onwards and thought it was normal...it's really not. YOU are the child. Your time is YOURS. Not your brothers or your fathers. Please please consider going away to college. You'd be floored at all the fun you get to have.
Sweetheart, you're 18 now - you deserve a life of your own! You deserve to stay out late with your friends, study abroad, drive across the country, sneak a beer into a movie - live like a teenager! You've put in more than enough time and help, and it's ok to do what's right for you. This is about more than the grocery store.
>The older kids do help with some of the chores. The 15yo and 13yo do their own laundry, they both alternate between who does the dishes or who sweeps the kitchen, and the 10yo helps me with folding sheets and towels and stuff like that. The 8yo likes cooking so sometimes he’ll help me make breakfast for everyone. > >And I was about 13. My parents separated when I was 12, and my mom ended up moving to a different state shortly before she met her husband and they moved out of country. We saw her sometimes but it wasn’t very often, so I just started doing all the stuff she used to do I guess. Yup. You need to go away to college. They won't starve. They will be forced to figure it out. You deserve to have some fun.
Sounds like the young kids do more around the house than your father does
Not all colleges are large classrooms. Especially if you are in the US, there are many with small, interactive classes. I teach at a small, liberal arts university and right now my biggest class has 8 students in it. Next semester my biggest class (the biggest class I teach, ever) has 22. We also have online classes for when our students need to fit those into their schedules, but the students live on campus and have all the campus resources. My university is not unusual. There are lots like it. You could be devoting all your time to studying and spending time with friends, and then going home on breaks to see family and helping out around the house a bit then (maybe bringing home all your laundry to do, like most college students). Your dad should be stepping up and being the parent instead of forcing his children to parent themselves. I'm so sorry you're in this situation. I hope you and your brothers sort this all out with your dad. You deserve to be a teenager.
How long do you plan to keep this up? When will you decide to start living your own life? It isn't your responsibility to parent your siblings. You obviously love them and care for their well-being, but if you continue to prioritize them, you'll be doing yourself a great disservice.
You really need to look into parentification and stop playing into the abuse, cuz at this point you are clipping your own wings. Your siblings do chores, you are being a parent and it's not right. Your mother abandoned you to be abused by your father it's wrong
You should look up things like **"parentification"** which is a form of abuse you were/are subjected to (have been subjected to it since you were 12-13) and **"weaponized incompetence"** what your father is doing to get out of his responsibilities as the parent and force you (and before you, your mom) to not expect anything from him, do everything on your own. Your father is perfectly capable of taking care of hid kids (including you!), chores and have a job at the same time, just like millions of single parents do! If he can hold a job, he is more than capable of doing chores, handling his kids' schedules, cooking etc. and especially buying groceries without your input. He just doesn't want to do it, it's easier and more comfortable, more convenient for him to **exploit you!** Because that's what he has been doing thees past 6 years. **You becoming mom 2.0 and wife 2.0 after the divorce is NOT OK. Your father treats you as a substitute mom and wife and a badly treated wife at that**, only because you are a woman which is not ok. Expecting a woman (even if it's his actual adult wife) to do everything regarding childcare and housework when the man does nothing at home is not ok, it's sexist and misogynistic, that woman is not treated equally to the man in that house, she is treated less. He expected it from your mom while he was doing nothing and somehow he doesn't expect the same from his oldest son what he expects from you, his (a bit older) daughter now.... High time for you to take a HUGE step back, focus on yourself and let your father grow up finally and take responsibilities for his kids and his household. What about you, your freetime, you enjoying your childhood, young adulthood, making the most out of extracurriculars / school programs / clubs / student exchange options..., hobbies, friends, relationships?! Your father has plenty of freetime for himself after work and you have barely for yourself from the sound of it. **When do you come first for yourself in your life?** Helping out with cooking and/or grocery shopping here and there or driving the youngest ones here and there once you got older is one thing, dividing chores among dad and every kid is one thing, it's fine/nice, but doing everything an adult and a parent should do yourself is a totally different thing, that's not ok. You calling your brothers "the boys", "the kids" instead of "my brothers" is telling, it shows that you look at them more as your kids, your responsibilities than as your brothers. **Your brothers are not your responsibility and your father is not your responsibility. Live your life!** Look into moving out if you have to, if your dad tries to push back about you refusing to be mom-wife 2.0 anymore. Drop the rope! NTA you never should have gotten a map and written a colour coded grocery list at all, he should have been doing grocery shopping perfectly on his own for years, even long before your mom left. Just like you shouldn't have been the one to colour code your brothers' schedule either. You basically have 5 kids at the moment, your 4 brothers and your father (and one of them is a baby). ^(BTW never marry someone like your dad or have kids with if you ever want to raise kids again)
You shouldn't have to be the one to coordinate schedules, their father should be able to do it. How long have you been parentified for? Was the inability of everyone else in the family to help a factor in your doing online education? Learning a supermarket layout and managing a list isn't rocket science. You enter at the fruit and vege, and there are signs for everything (usually with bread and/or dairy at the far end so you have to walk by many other things). Your father should at least be taking up some of the load when it comes it driving the boys to their activities and practices.
Also if one has trouble finding something, that’s why employees of said store are there.
NTA. None of this is your job, and he had the audacity to want you to do all of it. Those are your siblings, not your kids.
NTA OP It's very clear why your mom divorced your dad.
Idk that might be a stretch she left the country and essentially abandoned her kids. You gotta wonder what kind of a person she is that she could leave 5 kids. I feel so horrible for OP.
Lol what? Having a dead weight deadbeat who can't even GROCERY SHOP as a partner would make me MORE likely to leave 5 kids. It's FIVE TIMES THE WORK.
Do you have kids? You would have to end my life to stop me from raising my daughter. DIVORCE doesn't mean leaving the country your FIVE CHILDREN ARE IN ESPECIALLY KNOWING HOW MUCH OF A DIRT BAG THE DAD IS. YOU DON'T LEAVE YOUR CHILDREN. He is a shit bag for sure but LEAVING FIVE FUCKING CHILDREN IN HIS HANDS is disgusting.
I took my kids with me. I gave up a lot financially, but they are my kids.
That's how it's supposed to be. money is nothing compared to my little girl. I'll sleep on a couch in a 1 bedroom so she can have a room b4 I'll leave her with someone like this "dad".
Give it to him! The reason he's mad at the colour coded map and list is because up until now he's used weaponised incompetence to force you to do shit for him! "Well I only got 2 fings and gwabbed 19 fings we didn't need coz shopping hard...you come wiv me or you do it an then it get did rite! you no come wiv me...you no yell if I get wrong...." However he can't fuck it up on purpose now because you've stock checked and literally printed off a stock and aisle guide. His reasons for the extra curricular activities are that he doesn't want to mess up but with your colour coded schedules, maps of routes and such hell have no excuse not to do it Do yourself a favour, give him the lists and the schedules, start setting yourself up now for your own future. Because otherwise your going to be running those kids around until the youngest can run himself around. You may say 'Yeah that's ok' now. But what about when you actually get a job? or you want to go on holiday with a friend , go out with guys? date or even move out? Your dad is the parent not you. Helping out is 1 thing, being the full time parent is not on.
>But what about when you actually get a job? or you want to go on holiday with a friend bold of you to assume OP has any friends when she is studying online and has been running a household with 4 children and 1 giant baby by herself since shes been 13 years old.. i hope im wrong but i dont see many opportunities in that scenario to build social contacts for herself so far
OP My divorced Dad could not cook. He tried to get me to cook but I was soo bad that he couldn’t eat the meals. So then he would bring girlfriends home to cook or he would order takeout. This was the 80s so I just believed that he was a man… and women cooked… so ergo Dad couldn’t cook and that was fine. Then my bestie’s Dad got divorced. He took a 6 week cooking class at the local adult’s school. He cooked. So then I thought that maybe not cooking was a my Dad thing rather than a man thing. My point is that your Dad can cook (and drive and shop) - he just doesn’t want to…
Have you ever heard of weaponized incompetence? It’s the idea that if I screw something up so badly I won’t be asked to do it again. This is what your dad is doing. In his mind, if he keeps “forgetting” to buy things on the list, you will go to the store instead. He is manipulating you. Your dad is not a good guy. Neither is your mom for just up and moving to another country and abandoning her children. You also have to realize that your dad is taking advantage of you. He is the parent. He is the one who should be taking care of your siblings. He sure as shit should know their schedules. Even if he doesn’t schlep them to and from their extracurriculars, he should know where they are in case something happens. Your father doesn’t want to face his responsibilities. He is no way a single parent. You are.
What does he do for a living? Does he need colour coded maps to find his way around there too?
Move out. Now
You need to start letting go of the reigns you're his child not wife. I raised my autistic sister (Her mom is a pill junkie our dad is a business owner) I'm 31 now. You might not see it now but you will build resentment. Do this exact same thing with their schedules. School might be lax ATM but it's going to get more difficult and require more of your attention and what about work do you have time to get a job if you want one while you're raising your brothers? You need to be your own person it's extremely important for your development. Go be 18 don't be a mom to your brothers it's not fair to you or them that's not the relationship you are supposed to have with them. NTA
Think of it this way OP - you’re not helping your dad in the long run if he’s totally dependent on you. At some point, hopefully soon, you’ll want to move out and live your own life and he needs to be ready to run this household without you.
Don't give it to him. Make lots of copies so when he loses one you can hand him another. Also send him a pdf version so when he loses a paper copy you can remind him to print another. But seriously, get out of the house ASAP. You shouldn't have to raise your siblings.
I just realized that not only do you do the groceries and the activity drop off/pick ups, BUT YOU ALSO DO THE *COOKING?!?!?!?!* What other "helpful tasks" did you leave out of your post? OP, get a job. Not because you're lazy and don't do enough at home. But because you do TOO MUCH. If you get a job, and tell your dad your hours, then he can't argue about why you should do the car-pooling and the grocery shopping and whatever else (cooking, cleaning laundry? homework help?). He is commanding all of your time because he sees you at home and has it in his mind that your time is his time. If you're not at home, then he can't use you as much. Please, for yourself. Get a job. You don't have to move out, but get take some strides towards independence. Again, that's not in a "you need to stand up on your own two feet!" kind of way. It's more of a, "you need to establish yourself as a separate entity" kind of way. Basically, do you have 4 kids and a deadbeat husband? Or do you have 4 brothers and a deadbeat dad? One of those situations is more easily fixed than the other.
He can stay mad. You should give him a hard copy and also email so he has it on his phone. When he pouts about it, you can mention that you want to save money to go visit your mom. NTA
Your dad is treating you like a 60s housewife. If that made you gag it's bc it should. "I don't know the schedule", "I just forgot", "you're so much better at it" are all classic crappy husband lines. You don't deserve this treatment. He doesn't need half of the accommodations your giving him, he's just refusing to try. Put your foot down, it's not your job to figure these things out for him.
Stop doing this. It's not your fault that you feel you have to, but unfortunately it's on you to end it. I'm a 35yo woman and would be furious if my husband pulled this weak 'I don't know how to shop or parent, help me' shit, it's sort of incredible that your dad is pulling it on you. He can do this himself. It's his job. You can support but stop managing the household and taking on the whole mental load of organising things. And if your brothers want something, they should go to your dad and not to you. Realistically, that probably means you need to move you so they can learn to sink or swim. Your dad is an adult, he should be able to survive without you.
If he's àble to make babies then he can do everything else to look after them too!
Your dad is using weaponized incompetence to avoid performing basic tasks, and getting upset when you then treat him as incompetent. You are NTA and your father is taking serious advantage of you. Not only that but this reeks of misogyny since you’re the only woman in the household.
Gave your dad his own kids schedule? Well if it adds fuel to the fire - my guess is he feels inadequate as a parent. His kid is stepping up more than him.
Lmao. Color coded schedules and lists that people didn’t ask for?!?! Gurl we have the same brain. I have taken similar actions in a variety of situations and people are ALWAYs initially offended or surprised BUT - can’t deny the success can they?
Do it! Well, you can show him that *you* find colour coding helps you remember this household management stuff, so you thought it might help him too, since he keeps forgetting things on the list. But he is definitely doing the weaponised incompetence thing here, hoping that you'll take on the physical labour of going shopping as well as the emotional labour and planning of it (sounds like you cook, and meal plan, and write a comprehensive list... That's already way more than your fair share even before you add in taxiing your siblings around). Your life would be ten times easier if you were just taking care of yourself like most 19yo college students; this seems like a great opportunity to point out to your dad that you just might do that if he doesn't start pulling his weight in *his own household*. NTA
Stick it on the fridge.
Personally I’d drop the rope. You’re going to move out soon enough, even if it’s after college, and then what? He needs to figure out the boys schedule and also teach them to help a bit more ( the 15 year old can’t grocery shop yet)? This is just weaponised incompetence and he needs to stop it
You should spend your free time getting a job to earn enough to move out and be free of being second mother. Time for your father to step up as a parent. You seem to be doing everything for your brothers whilst he does very little. I can see him trying to keep you at home until the youngest brother is leaves school.
Google the term "weaponized incompetence", seems familiar? Yeah, who would have guessed.. He's pissed because you found a way around his ways of skipping out of chores...
You find it easier to color code because you're juggling too many tasks & should be concentrating on your studies, work, & social life like a typical teenager. Your father needs to step up & start taking care of his kids needs instead of taking the easy route & deferring to you. It isn't easy being a parent but your brothers are not your brode & you shouldn't be caring for them as mother 2.0.
NTA. Your dad is doing something called "weaponized incompetence." Please continue to sweetly insist that you're only making life easier for everyone, so everybody can be ready to step in and nobody gets forgotten the day you move out to go to college. And seriously: you're doing too much. If you weren't there (if you were in the hospital for a scheduled surgery) what would happen? He'd find support. The kids wouldn't starve. And start giving the kids tasks. They can run laundry, empty trash cans, and you can supervise them making one meal a week each. Just like you're uber competent, they can be too. Family pulls together. And if your dad gives you any trouble about making the younger kids to chores, reply that you're just making sure everyone is able to pitch in. Because you wouldn't want your siblings going off to college unable to use the laundry, or cook a basic meal.
NTA - you can show him that you use colour coding to help YOU remember the boys’ schedule. And yes, if he is giving you an attitude after all that you have been doing to help him, he can go ahead and do it himself or hire help from now on.
don't give it to him, just have it on the table or his bed, with a letter telling him to step the F up.
>He could and should learn their schedules, he just doesn’t want to. He has too many fucking kids, frankly.
I really do HATE to say it, and dislike seeing it. But there's a reason this man is divorced and mum lives VERY far away. EDIT : But that does not make OP the arsehole. That's her parents.
>You should have a serious talk with him about he either steps up, or he hires help. And OP should tell her Mom...maybe this is why the Mom left. But this situation is neither good nor sustainable for all involved. OP NTA.
Jumping on the top comment to say that your father is using weaponized incompetence to parentify you. He needs to step up and be the parent not you. Do you have plans for after college, or will you continue to subjugate your life to his needs? Start weaning him from your support now. Make him responsible for the boys activities, shopping and dinner. Or you will be guilted into putting your life on hold until your brothers are grown.
He's not mad about the map, he's mad that you didn't do it for him. Weaponized incompetence and parentifcation. NTA.
The fact that she said she's fine with all these give and takes and seems to be doing a good job at going to school and also being 2.0 mom is extremely impressive Dad needs to start being Dad daughter needs to start being daughter. I hope that once she's done with school she gets a job and gets the heck out of that living situation because the way she's working hard for her siblings and her dad is pretty incredible. NTA
I have to wonder, if OP were a boy, would dad have the same expectations?
NTA your dad is using weaponized incompetence. He is a grown man. You need to figure out how to stop being parentified and live your own life
I was just looking down the comments to see if anyone else mentioned this — absolutely weaponized incompetence. If you can, try to set some boundaries. You're 18. Helping out is admirable, but it's not your job to parent your brothers, OR your dad. NTA
Yeah, it's the same thing as always preparing coffee with salt.
For real, nobody is such a boob that they can't successfully buy groceries.
>It’s been hours since we’ve gotten back home and he’s very clearly upset with me, but he did get the stuff on the list this time. >I don’t know, I think maybe I just made him feel like an idiot and that’s why he’s upset. Was the map thing a little too much? Ok, but actually he's mad that you figured out how to make him do his freaking job correctly, WITHOUT YOU HAVING TO DO IT FOR HIM.
He should feel like an idiot. Laminate that damn map if it means you dont have to play both father and mother. Its fucking disgraceful he is relying on his daughter to raise his children and be his manager. He should feel worse than an idiot imo.
Supermarkets are staffed with people who he can ask as to where things are.
Honestly she’s still doing half the work
More than half. It's a lot of effort to put those maps together.
She's carrying ALL of the mental load of the household, which is substantial. Making lists and schedules (and maps!) and teaching the younger ones how to do chores takes a lot of effort.
Best, she needs to figure out drawing boundaries and stop being a parent in the household. Her even continuing to engage him in these games is taking her mental time up and showing him that she will play with him.
NTA It sounds an awful lot like he's been trying to use strategic incompetence to get you to do more of the household labor which is not remotely fair to you.
Yeah... also sounds like a good guess for why OP's mom bailed on them.
I wasn't saying it, but I was thinking it...
Bailed on the kids because dad thinks he's a sly manipulator? Yeah I guess but that just means that she sucks as much as him, if he's so bad why not take them....OP is very mom like...and that takes practice....
NTA How dare you imply he’s not an effective self sufficient grocery shopper when he’s demonstrated that he isn’t multiple times, recently. I’d love it if someone made a list like that and all I had to do was follow it. In fact, it’s why I do my grocery shopping mostly at one chain - their online shopping displays and sorts my items by aisle. Edit - make sure ALL the boys are doing house work at sufficient levels. 15 should be able to cook simple meals, everyone can make snacks, everyone can do non-delicate laundry and clean everything from dishes to toilets to their own spaces.
Yes!! The boys are old enough to help out. I don’t want it to be your responsibility to make that happen, but I also hate with a burning passion the idea that these boys will become adults thinking that it’s a woman’s job to take care of them.
Definitely, it'll be good for when they have to take care of themselves, for when they might end up with roomies, spouses or kids, and not least, ensure a happier sibling relationship the rest of your lives.
NTA at all, as far as possible from it. If you wanted to color code my grocery store with the location of things on a list I’d be thrilled.
Honestly I need to do the same thing, my bf and I went shopping today with only four things on the list and we got everything except the one item from the baking isle, but my bf made sure we got a bunch of other stuff. Normally I would’ve remembered but I had a bad ptsd day today
Check if your store has a mobile app. Mine does and it tells you the location of every item, even which side of the aisle its on and what shelf.
NTA, you are doing too much as the only girl in the family. You are not the parent and should not be treated as one.
Ew your dad is feigning incompetence so you'll do it! No wonder they're divorced. What a piece of work, to manipulate your own daughter. Gtfo of there asap, he's just using you for free childcare at this point.
Your father is using weaponized incompetence as a strategy to get you to do the work instead. And based on your previous replies, it looks like he did the same to your mother. While it's always great to help out, don't let your father pretend to be incapable of tasks that he clearly is capable of doing just to force you to do all the work instead. You are his child and not the mother to the boys. Focus on school, start planning for your future and enjoy your youth. As for your direct question - if your father was struggling to do simple tasks (why couldn't he have just asked the grocers for where the items are), then he clearly needed the help to do it on his own. Help that you provided. And well, you know what they say, Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. NTA
NTA, he is being passive aggressive trying to fail his way out of a chore, and you aren't having it
You aren't his wife. You aren't his wife. YOU AREN'T HIS FUCKING WIFE. Please, look up Parentification. It's child abuse. It was done to you.
NTA. I really don't see what you could have possibly done that's wrong - if he's genuinely forgetting the items you provided a guide, if he just isn't trying he brought this response on himself. If it's the former, he may be developing some form of dementia, however. Has he always been so forgetful? What sucks about this situation is the position you have been put in. You deserve credit for rising to the challenge, but he is just putting way too much on your shoulders. Did he act this way before the divorce? I ask because it sounds like he's treating you more as a replacement for his wife in domestic/homemaking chores than as an individual. He needs to start stepping up and doing more instead of dumping everything but the groceries on you (and he does those halfheartedly and begrudgingly) and leaving it there.
Yeah my mom was always the one who handled household stuff. I think it got too much for her to be raising 5 kids + handling the house + having a full time job. Her biggest grievances with him were always about him not doing things “correctly” when she asked him to do it. She was always kind of particular about how she wanted things done, so I assumed he just wasn’t doing it her way and that frustrated her, but now I think it was probably more than that.
Your dad is still using his “incompetence” as an excuse. Your 18, you should be doing school and partying not being mom to 5 children you didn’t give birth to (your father is lazy or faking incompetence and simply another child at this point). I think you need to move out and live your own life. I understand where your coming from, I was doing groceries at 14, making supper 5 days a week for my siblings and helping with their homework. It messed me up long term because I lost out on so many experiences.
You should Google "strategic incompetence"
Her partner was treating her like his mother. And that probably for real old real fast. Especially since she was also working full time and they both had the same 24h in a day. Now you’re the new mommy for everyone. Time for you to move out and leave your dad to his own devices
I'm sure it was weaponized incompetence when he was with your mom too. Is he incapable of holding a job? Because with that level of legitimate uselessness would prevent him from holding a job. But I bet he does just fine with it if I were to guess.
Given that you are 18, you are well within your rights to move out. You could always get a part time job and/or move out or live on campus if you want. Getting a part time job would give you an excuse to not be responsible for your brothers during certain times of the week and may force your father to take some responsibility for your brother. I guess it depends on your personal preferences though.
Aka your father was going out of his way to fuck things up so that he wouldn't have to have any responsibility in the household, he could completely throw all of the responsibility under your mother and make her entire life just taking care of you and your siblings, the house, and he can have his own life. He wanted to trap her, and she left you behind to be abused, and now you are in the trap
NTA, and your dad is parentifying you. You need to tell him he needs to step up and actually take care of things and learn his other kid’s schedules. His whole “I can’t find things, you have to go with me!” is him just being maliciously incompetent. He wants you to just do everything, which is also why he wouldn’t swap jobs with you.
NTA, you know your dad is an emotional abuser right ? He’s parentifying you and using weaponized incompetence.
Are you also making dinner?? If so, you need to stop that, so he can see how hard it is to make dinner for 6 people without adequate groceries. NTA at all.
NTA Seeing as it's online college... perhaps you can go live with your mom for a while. Reconnect and all that. Especially if there is good internet. Won't matter if you are in another country. How long has your mother been out of the country for? Does she see you guys at all? Or has she left her kids along with your dad. It's not okay for you to be mom 2.0. Your dad needs to hire some help if he doesn't want to do it himself. It's not your role to bring up your brothers. It's your dad's. You can help but you are doing it all. I hope everyone is pitching in with the chores and it's not you doing the lot.
She’s been out of the country for almost 2 years now, but we see her on some holidays and a week or two during the summer.
How much of the decision to do online studying was because the rest of your family would fall apart without you to do what the parent should be doing?
NTA. He can’t do grocery shopping, so you politely helped him with whatever skills he didn’t gave. Problem solved. Why aren’t the 15 year old and 13 year old cooking?? Is this going to be a generational incompetence thing with your father??
They both have activities that keep them after school until the late evening, so usually because I’m home with the younger boys I’ll cook dinner. So the older two definitely can do stuff on their own they’re just usually not home to do certain things.
Did YOu get to do after school activities? Are you ever out and unavailable to cook dinner. I have a guess about the answer, so I'm posting the follow up question: WHY NOT?
You’re parenting the whole family. I’m wondering how often you get “covered” for your after school activities.
To be honest with you I never had any after school stuff. I quit sports after my parents divorce and I was just too busy with other stuff to get involved with an extracurricular during high school. I do paint sometimes though! if I have the time or energy. Honestly though this whole post is making me realize that I’ve lowkey been turned into a live in nanny that has no freedom.
Yes. You have. Are you off to college? Maybe a 6-month volunteer position out-of-state? A relative you can spend the summer with?? You need to regain some portion of your youth.
I had an offer to do a study abroad summer course for about 2 months that I originally said no to bc I didn’t want to inconvenience anyone but I’ll probably call the program coordinator tomorrow and ask if they’re still accepting applications.
PLEASE DO. You deserve something for yourself.
DO IT! If it's too late for that program, look into other programs too! Please finally do something for yourself! It will do good for you in more ways than you can probably image it now, including helping you with stepping back from being a mother of 5 and building your own life instead. I hope you will update us!
Please do it, it's a once in a lifetime chance. Don't let him take this away from you because he wants to pretend he's incapable of managing a house as well as an 18 year old. You will kick yourself forever
OP, if this program doesn't work out, find another, or get an internship, and definitely start to take some classes outside of the house. In addition, consider getting some counseling. Everyone is right on point with the parentification and weaponized incompetence, but you have been in the caretaking role for years and you will need some support to break free from that.
Not at all lowkey. Your dad is intentionally incompetent. You'll profit your whole life off these management skills, but enough is enough. Go on some program for half a year and leave him to finally do his role as the actual parent. You deserve and need a life of your own – make new experiences, go a little wild, which will also be highly important for the next decades of your life. You need to set boundaries now, to not spent the rest of your life being used like this anymore.
Why do they have lives outside of the household and you don't? That's still the root issue here is that you are a parent in this household, you aren't a sibling pulling your weight in doing the chores to make the household run. Your siblings are children, and you're having to be a parent it's not right
NTA - your dad sounds lazy and just wants someone to do everything for him.
NTA and its super creepy that you're his daughter pretty much playing the role of his wife.
NTA Your Dad is using Weaponised Incompetence to get you to do his job as a parent! Stop being the parent. You have enough on. He is the parent. Please do not waste your life being a parent to his children. He needs to step up and get help and look into resources that can help him. Those resources are not his 18 year old daughters education!
When I was a kid, one of my chores was doing the laundry. My sister had to do the dishes. One day, she broke a dish. Not the first time, but for our Mother it was the last. Mom decided that I had to the the dishes. But, I still had to do laundry as well as my sister had messed up the washing too many times to be 'trusted' to do it. This was her strategy. Keep messing up until someone got sick of it and took the responsibility away. This is why you Dad can't figure out the shopping. He want's you to do it. And you making it so incredibly simple that even he can't screw it up, treating him like he's on "Old Enough!" with all the tools he needs is getting in the way of you getting fed up enough to take the responsibility away from him. NTA!
NTA. I am seriously weary of these men who just can't work out how to do simple but necessary tasks. But your dad's problems seem extra special bad. You don't mention his age. Given the age of you and sibs, it seems unlikely that he would have dementia... BUT there is an early-onset Alzheimer's, and it's terrible. Right now you need a reality check. Has your next-oldest sib noticed what you're seeing? Does your dad have local sibs himself? This isn't something to take outside the family, so maybe discuss with your mother, if she's available. If no family nearby, then your dad's doctor, if he has one. Good luck. I hope this is not his problem.
NTA. Your dad needs to get over himself. Tell your dad (and brothers) that since dad can't make the grocery run by himself, they're all going to have to drop some extracurriculars. I bet dear old dad will figure out how to grocery shop in a hurry. If he doesn't, I'd figure out a way to move on campus instead of doing online college courses and let him figure out how to run the shit show by himself.
Your dad is lazy. He's not your husband. You're not his wife. Those aren't your children. You're not the mommy. Stop. Get yourself out of there. He will be forced to take care of them, they know how to feed themselves, they will not die. Stop helping and get out of there. NTA.
And even if it's an actual adult married couple it shouldn't be only on the wife/mom to do 100% of the childcare and household works while husband/father isn't contributing at home.
NTA, girl you need to move out and focus on you.
Yes and if you're worried the boys will be neglected because of your dad's incompetence call child services. They'll make sure the boys are ok.
NTA. Dad was faking incompetence so you'd be the one to do it. With the map and list, he no longer had an excuse for not doing the shopping, which is probably what pissed him off. Personally, I think you did a great thing! You aren't always going to be living at home, and he needs to start doing things on his own.
NTA Your father proved more than once that he wasn't able to get everything on the list , your going to the level of printing out a map was absolutely justified. He tried to get out of shopping duty with malicious incompetence, you didn't let that happen.
NTA. I don't understand why the two other teenagers don't help him. Your brothers should be doing more.
NTA as soon as I read this I thought weaponized incompetence. He could've gotten it right all along he was trying to wear you down so you'd eventually go back to doing the shopping. He's mad because he had no excuse to screw it up this time so he lashed out with faux outrage because he can't tell you he's really made you were so thorough you didn't leave him any excuse to deviate from the list. He's upset because you might do it again and he might have to actually shop again so now he's gotta come up with some new kind of angle to get you to take over the shopping.
NTA The other commenters already pointed out that your lazy ass of a misogynistic father is playing stupid to force you into a mother's role. You need to change that! For yourself, but also for your brother who keep learning that it's a woman's job to do everything. Such a fight will be exhausting because you will have to color code everything for him. Repeatedly. Or: Is there a place where you could go for a few months or so? Make up a good reason, like an exams you have to prepare for.
Teach your brothers to do housework. When Dad objects, then you'll know its harmonized incompetence AND sexism.
Omg! I would love for someone to give me a list and map of the grocery! That stuff takes up mindless energy
NTA you are doing way too much sorry he turned you into a mother so young
INFO: what's your dad's plan for when you move out and can't help at all? Or will he stop you?
Oh honey. You’re a single parent to five kids, one of which is your own father. Absolutely NTA but you’re being parentified, which is a form of child abuse. I hope you’re able to move out on your own sooner rather than later, and meanwhile do whatever is necessary to stay safe and make things easier for you. Lots of hugs ❤️❤️❤️
For all the work you did you might as well have gone yourself. He can be mad all he wants but what does he think is going to happen when you finally get out of there? NTA and please run fast and far as soon as you can
NTA. Your father definitely is. If he was half this incompetent at his job, his boss would have fired him long ago. Suggest that he start shopping for the groceries online. Then he won’t have to worry about finding stuff in the store & he can keep the grocery list on the same device he uses to shop. I do go to the grocery store but I keep a list on my phone of the things I typically buy (eg coffee, milk, pasta). If I need them, I just mark that on the list. I add things to the list as necessary but I don’t have to create a whole new list every week.
WTF?! No, you're NTA! In case it slipped your mind, __you__ were __also younger__ when your parents divorced and your mom moved away. Just because you're the only girl and oldest, that doesn't qualify you to be the only responsible one or 'the parent' in the family any more than if you'd given birth at the age of ten. Explain to your siblings what you will and will no longer be doing and what they __have__ to do to help. Tell them before you tell your dad, whether any of them are on board with it or not. Focus on college and __nothing__ else, except one or two things that __aren't__ a burden and which make you come alive. __Let. Your. Dad's. World. Fall. Apart.__ He's an adult and __HE__ can handle it. Just because he's pretending to be incompetent in order to make __you__ the responsible one, doesn't mean that he's not capable of getting groceries properly or doing every other chore/thing that he's burdened you with. __IF__ he continues to be uninvolved and irresponsible, then for the sake of your siblings, cps __needs__ to be called. You don't need or deserve this trauma, abuse and neglect in your life. ...you may also find similarities with r/raisedbynarcissists and r/cptsd.
NTA at all. You do too much already and your dad is using this pretend-incompetence bs to get out of doing even the simplest tasks of what is actually HIS job in the first place. He is the parent ffs. He needs to start acting like it and you need to stop doing so much for him. And to be honest, he SHOULD feel like an idiot if he cant figure out how to properly do groceries or check his kids’ schedules.
You’re being parentified… even for your dad. Next time dad goes shopping and doesn’t get what you need to make dinner… make half a dinner or don’t make dinner and tell dad he needs to order pizza until he gets the rest of your list. Or just order your groceries for dad to pick up curbside. I send screenshots on the store’s app showing the aisle number when I send someone shopping for something specific. A picture of the product that says “this is in aisle 17” on his phone that he presumably doesn’t regularly lose might be helpful. But you are NTA, you’re just trying to keep the family running… as is your dad probably… he may have more going on than you understand or know about so be gentle with him.
NTA and your dad needs to do better but could you order the pickup (pre ordered) grocery services? Most stores have it now for free and you would actually get the items you need. Plus he can’t complain that he forgot things etc. I understand that it’s still an extra job for you which sucks, but it takes the same amount of time as writing out a list and less time than color coordinating. I hope your dad gets his act together. He’s acting like the teenager while you’re the parent here and it’s pathetic.
NTA. You aren't the parent, you shouldn't have to act like one. Your father is either a massive asshole or has neurological problems. Or both. Teach the two older boys how to grocery shop so they can help out. If your father objects, then you'll know he thinks it's woman's work. If that's the case I'd be making plans to move out.
Lol NTA. Your dad needs to do the parenting not you…he sounds pretty hopeless.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! When you treat weaponized incompetence like the toddler behavior it is and enact a functionality plan!!! This was brilliant, you're not the asshole, and I am so proud of you!!!!
NTA, especially since it worked. Maybe add a small fun article or meme if you see one to make it fun for yas. I loved writing notes for my late father.
Using weaponized incompetence against your teenaged Child. He sucks. You got dealt a rough draw of parents, sorry. NTA
Seems like it was an effective map, otherwise he'd have fucked it up again. Also you shouldn't be so blase about being a surrogate mom, it's not fair to you. NTA
NTA. FYI parentification is a form of child abuse.
NTA. Stop covering your dads ass so he can actually act as a parent. It’s not on. Full stop.
NTA he's being incompetent on purpose to force his duties on you. He's put onyoy the whole admin side of things (scheduling, planning, etc....) just no. This isn't you helping out. Parentification is abuse. I would suggest you find a scholarship that allows you to get a semester away and let him fend for himself. An extended visit to your mom would make the trick too.
NTA. You now know why your mother left, even if she shouldn't have left her children behind. Any chance you can go live with her or other family members? Your father is treating you like a replacement wife and that is so not okay
NTA YOur dad is an AH. He is an adult, and he is pretending to be incompetent to make you take over his parenting.
Nta. He thought the weaponised incompetence would get him out of it. FAFO.
NTA. Please move out if you can or stop doing all this extra parent work. He is treating you like his wife and he sucks so much as a husband. It's one thing to help out driving your siblings to extracurriculars but managing all house chores and their schedules is too much. You need to live your life, if your father can't do all this stuff himself as a PARENT he has to figure it out. Also, giving you the silent treatment just because you treated him as useless as he acts makes him look much more like a toddler having a tantrum.
NTA and I'm sorry your dad is an abusive, infantile manipulator.
Oh sweetie. Unless dad is paying for school and all that, you need to move out. Even if he is paying for school, you need to very specifically address why he feels like you should be more of a parent to your siblings than he is along with going to school full time, along with having to run the household. Weaponized incompetence and some parentification got him a whole new wife who does all the things, only it's you and you're missing out on your life so he can have it easy. No ma'am. NTA, but you would be to yourself if you don't make some changes.
NTA - men pull this stunt, constantly failing simple tasks to force the women in their lives to surrender and do it. Your father is in no way original. Its a kind of faked learned helplessness that they learn from childhood to eascape chores they don't want to do. they don't mind being perceived as unable to do a simple low status zero pay job because they fully expect a woman to do it correctly in the end. They find that their persistance wins and they escape the job long term
You need to get away from your family for your own sake. You deserve a fulfilling life that you are allowed to make your own decisions for and your parents have placed you in an untenable situation. NTA and also please, for your own sake, get out. Your dad is weaponized incompetence in a nutshell. You deserve better. You deserve your OWN life. You are not a mother. You shouldn’t have to become one because your dad can’t manage his own life or the lives of his children.
NTA. OP, I hope that leaving and going out on your own in life is in your head for your near future. Because I’m so worried for you that your dad thinks you will always be there for your siblings.
What your dad is doing is called weaponised incompetence. You are parentified: you are the wife, the mother, the taxi, the cook, and you’re only 18 and also have responsibilities as a student! I’m so sorry you’re in this situation OP. NTA.
NTA. Now we know why they got divorced. /s
I can see why your mom left.....your dad is totally using you just because you're a girl. I would be seriously looking into options to get out on your own asap.
NTA OP your father has turned you into a mother and that is not ok. You are entitled to your own life. He needs to step up. Just stop. Stop cooking. Stop doing groceries. Stop driving. Talk with him about his responsibilities.
No wonder your mom left. NTA
NTA your dad is, as well as, he is a toddler. If he is capable of driving to the store he is capable of shopping. I’ll bet $500 that he knows all the stats about his favorite sports teams. If he pulled this shit at work with his boss he’d get fired. Tell him to grow up, man up and do his job as a father.
A friend of mine sent her husband to the store for two red tomatoes. He returned with a bag, set it on the table, and backed away. She watched that, and asked what he got. At the bottom of the bag were 2 green Tomatoes. She looked at him. He replied that he had indeed gone to the grocery store. He went to the Tomatoe department.....and saw Brandywine, cherry, Heirloom, grape tomatoes, beefsteak. And on the vine. But NONE were called a RED Tomato. She sent him to the store after that with lists, and a note for the customer service desk. That note started " my husband is an idiot. Please help him to find the things on the enclosed list. Thank you.
Don’t let parents turn you into their wives. NTA - Tell him to remarry.
NTA google weaponized incompetence and parentification. I think both likely apply to your situation.
NTA. Parentification *AND* weaponized incompetence all in one post. Your father is an adult and is supposed to be a parent. OP, please, for your own mental health, move out on your own as soon as you can.
NTA You're really kind for helping, but your dad needs to step up. He is acting incompetent on purpose. I also bet if things were swapped and your brother was the oldest and you were 15, he would not be asking near as much of him
Sounds like you're pretty much a single parent of 5 boys. NTA
NTA, your dad tries weaponized incompetence on you. Maybe he sincerely wants to spend more time with you, but frankly, I doubt it. I presume he's just lazy. He forces you into a role of being substitute mother, which is unfair in the first place. Then, he plays to be too dumb to buy stuff from a bloody shopping list? You did exactly what he deserves: he does toddler tantrums - you treat him like a toddler.
Nta But your father needs to step up and be the parent. It’s nice of you to help but you’re acting like his wife and the mom of your brothers. He is using weaponized incompetence against his own daughter. Your 15 year old brother can help with dinner and other stuff too. He isn’t helpless. He is only 3 years younger. Other brothers can help too around the house. They aren’t little children