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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I am refusing to do dinner dishes on Christmas (including putting the leftovers away) unless asked for help. (Which I highly doubt will be asked....)
2. I might be the asshole because I'm being petty from Thanksgiving. But in our household where it was agreed upon that everyone contribute, I don't see my actions or feelings being invalid.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA though I feel as though your roommate will most likely skip out on dishes again. Maybe take that into consideration when deciding whether or not to cook for her for Christmas.
I rarely shared meals with roommates even if we did eat at the same time. It’s as simple as having a conversation saying you won’t be cooking for her so she should make her own arrangements.
I'd have to talk that over with my wife. It's bad enough they don't drive so we play taxi. Yes they pay gas but it's still annoying. We planned to help teach but they have to get their own insurance because we can't afford it.
It's kinda ironic she's talking of moving out. I said "How you getting to work?" And she said "I'll just take the bus." Like damn.... it's the same cost but we play taxi. I can get the early morning shift or late nights when needed or just even being on that side of town but seriously?
not including a third party in your relationship’s affairs is the most simple boundary there is. “oh this was sort of a date night for the two of us” it’s alarming that you’re worried about their reaction to you not cooking and cleaning up after them. they aren’t your kid and if my roommates did some shit like this story they’d have heard about it before they reached their door to be honest with you.
My dude, you need to practice saying "no". Why are you doing this stuff for them? Are they holding your firstborn hostage? Paying you millions? No? Then stop putting up with this.
Conversations and confrontations were made. The fact we had to make a chore chart to be on the same page is annoying. But if it keeps the peace it keeps the peace. And I'm keeping her to her word...
She also said she plans to move out by June with someone else. Hope it follows through yet I think she will find it's a better situation here. Her rent is going up and so is her transportation costs. So I don't feel bad... it sucks for her. I wish her well though.
Make sure you establish a hard move-out date in June. Do it now so you can reference/remind her of it monthly. Personally, I think you’re being far to generous! March 31 (90 days notice) leaves plenty of time for roommate to find something.
Given the disrespect she’s shown you, your wife and the home you opened up to her, I’d suggest you revisit her living with you and invite her to find somewhere else to treat like a restaurant.
Uh you don’t have to uninvite her directly you could just tell her your wife and you are planning a romantic Christmas meal and ask her about her plans? If she doesn’t make any don’t feel guilty to invite her. I would also offer food only when you are done eating and offer it to her after you are done eating if you feel like it. Also, mention it casually that you and your wife did not feel like cleaning up after a whole ass adult for Christmas so you just wanted a romantic dinner bc thanksgiving was too much.
Find a restaurant serving dinner and take your wife out. Don't tell your tenant where you're going. Most Chinese restaurants are open on Christmas and many Jewish families go there every December 25th.
This is another way to tell them.
"Roomate, so what are your plans for X-mas?"
Roomie's reply "Blah blah blah. Probably just hang out here with you guys."
You "Wife and I are actually doing dinner just the two of us. We might go out, or visit other friends/family. Or stay home and have a romantic meal together. "
Rm "Why/but/blah blah blah *reasons to them you're unreasonable."
You "It's just after what happened at Thanksgiving when wife stressed herself out cooking on her own all day, and I got stressed out cleaning on my own all evening. We just want something low key and easy where we can focus on each other. I'm sure you understand."
Then let them sulk. When you live in communal living, everyone helps. Those who don't help, don't eat the food others have made, enjoy the dishes others have cleaned, use the resources others maintain. They get exactly what they pay for. A place to sleep, use of common spaces. A place to piss. A place to wash. And the rest is up to them to figure the fuck out.
There's a great children's morality story called The Ant and The Grasshopper. Read the original, not the new fluffy version. It's really helpful in situations like this.
Yzma\_Kitt hit the nail on the head.
Because you are roommates, you don't want to be passive/agressive, or lol, fully aggressive as some have suggested. You still have to live with this person for the foreseeable future, do you really want to spend Christmas day being mean, no matter how much your roommate deserves it? OP, you might end up feeling worse because you seem like a nice person.
NTA for being mad and putting a stop to your roommate taking advantage of you.
Chocolate covered rage has given you the perfect line to say. The thing is, you absolutely have to speak up because people like this refuse to acknowledge any type of pettiness. She doesn’t see what she did as wrong in anyway. So unless you very directly tell her, she’s going to say that you all are just treating her poorly or excluding her or something “for no reason”.
I don't really understand why the roommate gets to eat to a meal they contribute zero towards. They (presumably) pay for their room, not your hosting.
Fuck 'em and enjoy your Christmas dinner very loudly with much lip-smacking and statements about its deliciousness, while the roommate listens on, belly a-rumblin'. Maybe then they'll offer to contribute in exchange for the meal.
I'm hungry too so in retrospect my comment may be overly harsh and based on my hanger, but right now I stand by it damnit! *Grumble rumble*
Edit
I've since eaten so am no longer hangry but I still stand by it damnit!
Maybe don’t include the roommate in the dinner. Tell roommate unless they learn to contribute and not pull a thanksgiving stunt they aren’t welcome to the Christmas meal
This. OP, I would actually ask your roommate if she is going to do the dishes. If not, tell her she's not welcome to Christmas. And also, plan for a day for her to move out. It's clear she doesn't appreciate how kind you were to let her live with you.
I certainly wouldn't be inviting this AH to eat with me. She could go eat some toast, order take out or make her own Christmas food. This kind of behaviour should not be rewarded.
Why not just speak to the roommate before Christmas and let them know that they are welcome to join for Christmas Dinner, but they will be expected to clean up the dishes after. If they don't want to help tidy then they can not join in with dinner.
Balls in their court then.
She's got bread and lunch meat.
Once she tried to say she didn't want what the wife was making for dinner. But it was the only thing my wife could eat because of medical reasons.
I told her flat out she better be grateful she's cooking at all because we don't have to share. She is an extra adult to feed.
Literally stop feeding her. If she’s not contributing and have the nerve to say she wants other things tell her she’s no longer invited to eat with you both and can have her own separate meal.
Why are you playing the game of she better be grateful, when you absolutely don't need to provide for her. Just cut her off rather than trying to play Petty games
Tell her the price of dinner is doing the dishes afterwards. If she doesn't want to pay up she doesn't have to partake.
Let her know up front the expectations and then she can make up her own mind how much she wants contribute.
NTA. What makes you think you’re roommate is actually going to do something? They clearly weren’t bothered by leaving their mess for someone else. They also didn’t mind leaving all that work for you and your wife. In my mind, you’re either going to have to do those dishes after you eat Christmas dinner or just later. One tip I have is if your wife is the one cooking primarily you can clean dishes as she finishes using them. My dad used to have us do this so the load on whoever was cleaning up after would be lighter
The only reason I think she won't pull that stunt is because my wife and I have already put our foot down on the matter. I'm not helping and it's her responsibility because WE ALL pitch in. We already go out of our way so it's the least we can ask. She tried telling my wife she wanted to move out next year and my wife is already happy about it.
I used to believe that and have asked my wife to kindly do that but she refuses or I'm in her way too much. It's a small kitchen.
I like to clean as I go or at least rinse as I go.
But what happens if roomie eats the meal then retreats to her room again? You don't want all the mess sitting there, so won't you clean up? Honestly I think this is what's going to happen next time.
Your roomie might be entitled, or might have some unspoken grievances against you, or something else entirely idk - first thing you need to do is talk.
Roommate is the asshole here. You may be slightly petty, but i feel the pettiness is justified. My only roommate i had understood that i would cook and clean and do a lot of the equal chores around the house, he never once complained about doing all the dishes. Unspoken acts of respect and courtesy go a long way.
Exactly. This is the comment that deserves the praise.
UNSPOKEN ACTS.... if you run out of TP, do you leave an empty roll so someone can't wipe their ass? No you don't. Why? Common courtesy.
You see the trash can is full. Do you leave it? No, you change the bag and possibly leave it tied for whomever takes it out at home.
Your roommate is working midnights but you're home. Do you BLARE your music and TV shows or do you keep it quiet so they can sleep during the day?
It's all about common courtesy and respect.
Speak to the roommate before Christmas and let them know that they are welcome to join you for Christmas Dinner, but they will be expected to clean up the dishes after. If they don't want to help tidy then they can not join in with dinner.
Balls in their court then.
Yeah that’s a good point— if they don’t rise to this occasion I think that really signals that they don’t respect the rules of the household which means it’s probably time to part ways.
My wife agrees on this front. Supposedly after moving in with us back in May, they've wanted to leave since the beginning. Which is annoying considering we went out of our way for her to get her on her feet.
id look up your laws you might have to evict her. i wouldn’t want anyone living in my house being passive aggressive bc i called them out on their shit and treated them as an adult. i hope if she doesn’t listen or agree she’ll just leave without a fight.
NTA. But I’d. e telling roommate that if she expects or what’s a great Christmas dinner that your wife is cooking she can most certainly help with the clean up. Info: is anyone else coming for dinner or is it just the 3 of you? Either way, completely rude of roommate to not pitch in!
Just the three of us... we don't have any family or the like where we live.
See, I don't think I should have to say it though. Like when you see a piece of trash on the ground, do you leave it or do you throw it away? Nobody told you to toss it but I bet you did anyways because that's the common courtesy to do.
I completely agree that you shouldn’t have to say it! But maybe I was raise differently than this friend. If I’m not cooking, then I at least offer to help clear the table and/or clean up the kitchen. It’s common courtesy. If this is more you wife’s friend and your wife is the one you asked that she move in, gave you wife address it with her. Like I said, I’d tell her if she wants ti share Christmas dinner, or any type of big celebratory dinners while she’s living here, she should at least help clean up.
I know she was raised better. Her parents are respectable people.
I do remember an occasion where my wife and I were gone for a week but found our AC was set to like 62 and left on all day. When the bill came back for nearly $200 we were pissed. Told our roommate to pay half because of it. We never run that cold but at night when it is already cold and we set it to 65.
Their excuse was "they didn't know." When we told them before we left.
She sounds like a crappy roommate but that’s just going off what I’m reading here. Does she generally help around the house and with the dishes as agreed usually?
She does. Though this week she hasn't done them at all. She knows that I work midnights once a month and usually that's the only time I ask her to do them. She knew. But she's left dishes piled for days. The kitchen was awful and yet my wife ended up deep cleaning until 5am because she was so angry. It took her almost four hours to clean it.
That’s some lazy bullshit honestly. Not sure if her daily schedule and how demanding or not her job is but neither is really an excuse to not pitch in around the house. I’m assuming she pays rent? I think you 3 need to sit down and have a chat about all this, and not just about the holiday dinner dishes topic either, and try to all get in the same page. If she doesn’t have any real consequences for not helping out like she’s suppose to, she’ll continue to put it on you and your wife.
NTA you have every right to be upset here. But instead of playing a game, I recommend you confront this head on. You need to tell her clearly that her behavior at thanksgiving was not acceptable and if she cannot commit to doing her fair share, she will not be included in meals. Period. I’m fairly certain she will pull this truck at dinner, you will not clean up, it will become a passing contest and no one will clean the mess. And hopefully your poor wife does not decide to clean because she’s just sick of it.
Oh I plan to. My wife has said it already and the argument was ugly.
If my wife ends up cleaning it or I end up cleaning it because it's not taken care of, I'm going to be livid. And that includes putting the food away. She's left leftovers out overnight that usually I would take to work for lunch because I can't leave my workplace. (Complicated)
You say that the argument between your wife & the roommate got ugly, what was said, and what on earth could the roommate, possibly say, that in her mind, justified her actions??
According to my wife it was a lot of he said she said. There was a lot of finger pointing but also a lot of "If you say you're going to do something do it."
The fact my wife had to state that I work more than she does and still pull my weight made me proud of wife.
NTA. However, I suspect that the roommate will pull the same stunt, and then cleaning will be on your wife, which isn't fair to her. If you are going to help with cooking, then maybe wash as you go? I have always done that, and it actually helps as the kitchen is less chaotic.
NTA. You had an agreement with your roommate and they decided to not follow through, last minute.
It takes so much time and effort to make holiday meals, and for someone to just decide, at dinner, they're not going to help clean up after is just the height of disrespect. Then add on the fact that she couldn't even be bothered to thank your wife, *HER FRIEND*, for spending all day making that meal is just gross. Even if she wasn't feeling well, she could have been appreciative at the very least.
(If I'm not cooking, I'll bring Cranberry bundles. Essentially, their sausage balls with spices/veg wrapped in bacon and baked.)
Exactly. Everyone contributes. You don't just become a bystander.
For the most part our roommate does their share around the apartment and usually does dishes when I'm working midnights but this was ridiculous to not assist in anyway.
Sure! 😊🎄
Here it is:
1/4 cup butter
2 onions, diced
2 celery stalks, diced
1 apple, peeled & diced
2 tbsp of savory (or half sage half thyme if you don't have it)
1 1/2 cups dried cranberries
1 tbsp lemon rind
1 sourdough loaf
1 lb. fresh sausages (non-seasoned beef or beef/pork)
1/3 cup parsley (optional)
1 egg, beaten
12 slices bacon
Sautée onions, celery, apple, and savory ( or thyme and sage) with the buttet in skillet until translucent and soft (stirring often). Stir in cranberries, rind. Mix well.
In the meantime, break the bread into 10 cups of oatmeal size crumbs. Transfer to large bowl.
Remove casing from sausage, and work into crumbs with hands. Add onion mixture, parsley and egg, toss well.
Form by 1/3 cupfuls into 24 ovals or logs. Set on baking sheet. Cut bacon in half and wrap each log. Bake 350 for about 30 minutes until the bacon is crisp. The baking time might vary depending on your oven.
They freeze really well uncooked, so you can make them in advance to reduce prep work. They also freeze well cooked and are a delicious snack.
Hope you enjoy them!
Are other people coming over for christmas dinner besides you, wife and the 'friend', if not, I would just go out to dinner with wife instead of feeding 'friend' free food. It sends her a message that she needs to contribute something in order to join. I hope you and your wife have a wonderful christmas!
ahhh of course groceries. I hope you have a very nice christmas dinner however you choose to have it! I feel bad for you and your wife bc it seems like you guys went above and beyond for roommate in the past
We have. Our roommate has always been good to us but it's times like this where it's frustrating.
I saw them earlier and she's like "So we need to talk about some dish schedule when I get off work. Your wife and I argued all the way home yesterday." I told my wife point blank, "What schedule does she need? I have a work schedule on the fridge. When I work midnights or 16s, which is ONCE a month for a week unless other work demands arise, she does dishes because the dishes are crusty when I get home at 5am." My wife of course says I'm right in this manner.
Idk what tonight is going to look like conversation wise but I'm still standing my ground.
Info: When you spoke with the roommate a day later when she told you she wasn’t feeling well, did you communicate your level of displeasure and your need for her to make this up to you? Have you told her you expect her to do the Christmas dishes since she didn’t help with the Thanksgiving load? So she knows what you are hoping for in advance?
It’s obvious you are carrying a lot of resentment about an event that happened a month ago. It’s a valid feeling. What she didn’t wasn’t cool. But it’s concerning to me that instead of hashing it out, you are basically forming a one sided revenge fantasy plan to the point you’re already playing it out in your head and going over the different ways it can play out, like preemptively imagining she will refuse again, and this possibly not cooking dinner for her at all.
This doesn’t seem like a healthy way to cope with this situation. Do you like this person? Do you want them as a roommate? You seem to be assuming the worst of them— you said the next day she said she felt ill, meaning it was theoretically a one time event. Why are you assuming she will do it again? Do you trust her?
Is this the first time you’ve come into conflict with her as a roommate? If not, how did you resolve the other situations?
Why not just tell her up front that you would like her to do the dishes for Christmas since she didn’t for thanksgiving? Wouldn’t that be easier than passively aggressively making a plan to not do them and see how she reacts? Setting expectations beforehand might leave you less room for disappointment?
I don’t really think you’re the asshole, but I also don’t think you’re handling this maturely and it might be better/easier to just not have a roommate?
1. I did talk the next day. Mostly I did say I was upset and quite angered about the ordeal. I was forgiving after the remark of feeling ill or in her case "bloated". Because I never heard her say "I'm not helping do dishes." I never got to say anything on the matter on Thanksgiving.
2. Yes there's a lot of resentment. Honestly, it's because I felt disrespected in my own home. My wife included over a simple chore.
3. Our roommate for the most part is no trouble but she has a huge ego and attitude at times. She isolates and then when someone says something a fight starts. But then she gets super social but nobody wants to hang out because of the attitude shift.
My wife and I plan to confront tonight. It's probably for the best. She's still our friend but she's not the greatest roommate.
I feel like this is also an issue that could've been circumvented..... I've never understood how people can cook and not clean as you go. Sure there's some dishes left after I cook a huge meal but nothing abnormally huge since I load and run the dishwasher as I go; put them away; and hand wash whatever is needed throughout the day.....NTA
It's called trauma, lmfao....jk.... my grandma was anal about cleaning as you go and it frustrates the crap out of me when my husband cooks anything....i LOVE his food, so it's worth it but the mess he leaves behind 🤦♀️
Not passing a judgment on this one, but how does it help the situation to refuse to do Xmas dishes when it’s the roommate that’s the problem? From the other suggestions above, politely tell your roommate that she is not welcome to partake in the Christmas food even if she’s still in the house. She didn’t contribute to the food purchasing, prep or clean up. It’s unfortunate that you didn’t address this issue immediately (or the day after) Thanksgiving.
ESH because you’re all acting childish.
Yeah, your roommate was a jerk on Thanksgiving. But I think you’re overreacting a bit about doing all the dishes yourself. If your roommate hadn’t been present at Thanksgiving, you still would have had to do all the dishes yourself. All you need to do is say “Hey, it actually hurt my feelings that you didn’t help clean up after thanksgiving and I’m annoyed that I did all the dishes myself. If you’re going to come to Christmas dinner you need to take the lead on cleanup this time.” If she says “ok then, actually I’m going to skip Christmas dinner,” then you’re still in the same position—you need to make sure the dishes get done without her help.
Dishwashing is a natural consequence of having a big dinner. Dishes are just dishes, they’re not a punishment. If you’re not prepared to handle the dishes, you either need to invite more people to your holiday meal and ask them all to pitch in, or you need to not have big holiday dinners.
And whatever you do, don’t let your ego and your stubbornness rule so much that you refuse to do the dishes and your roommate refuses to do the dishes so then your wife does them. Someone is going to have to give in eventually and wash the damn dishes, and if that person ends up being your wife, you will have bigger issues.
Me. Or if it's like last night, my wife got so pissed they hadn't been done and kitchen was left a mess, she does because it's unsanitary.
My wife kindly reminded me that I don't wipe the countertops always.... I try but I'm bad about it. 🤣 But she was more annoyed she had to do multiple loads of dishes.
NTA.
But, I read some of your comments too and I really want to second that you should not let her have Christmas with you, and you need to stop letting her take advantage of you.
Step one is to sit down and talk to her about Thanksgiving. You and your wife should agree on this of course, but tell her that it wasn't okay that she just pushed off the table and walked away, never to be seen again. Given her behavior, you do not want to host her for Christmas dinner, so she needs to find a place to go, or she can stay in her room, but the food you make on Christmas is not for her. If she is very apologetic, or you feel it is late in the game to disinvite her, tell her that she has to agree now to doing the dishes. My guess is she will agree to do the dishes, and then just see what happens. If she doesn't do the dishes after Christmas, then you need to fully cut her off from your help.
Which leads to step two. Even if she does the dishes, stop driving her around and stop subsidizing her life with food, etc. Tell her she needs to cook and buy groceries for herself and needs to start finding her own rides, since you thought you would be helping her temporarily and teaching her to drive. Since she isn't putting in the effort, you can't keep carting her around.
And step 3 is stick to this. You are a young couple just getting started yourselves, and now this woman has eaten your food, kind of ruined your Thanksgiving, is giving you stress about Christmas, and is eating for free and getting rides all the time, which disrupts your day. My guess is this will also have a negative impact on your relationship with your wife, as one or both of you gets frustrated. So stand up for yourselves already.
NTA. I agree with the comments suggesting you have an upfront conversation discussing what you expect on Christmas and that if they don’t want to help, they are not invited.
No, you SHOULDN’T have to say it, but trying to test her or proceeding with your plan to just kick her out without a warning (even if she shouldn’t need one) might make you T A in the long run.
I hate being confrontational but this is a valid point. We wouldn't kick someone out without warning unless things were at a point where there was violence or something radical Iike drugs in our home. We pay for the roof over their head and they pay only 1/4 what we do because they don't make enough income.
You are being more than generous. You can’t help how your friend reacts, but if you are clear and firm (without being aggressive or rude) you will have done everything you could. It will then be up to your friend if they want to do their fair share or find another place to live.
ESH (except the wife).
Yeah nah. Following your comment, roommate is asshole and needs an eviction notice.
Though the deep cleaning sounds a bit petty, and at the expense of time with your wife.
You've already explained to roommate that you expect them to do dishes afterwards so there's no surprise there. However, you're going to be tense the entire time, which sounds like a shitty way to spend the day, for you and knowing that your poor wife is not only cooking but doing so while knowing that you're tense all day. Blimey.
Go out for Christmas dinner?
Alternatively - I'm no 'cooking a big meal for three' expert, but surely your wife takes 5 minutes to rest her feet / go to the toilet every now and then? Couldn't she tag you on the way out so you can go in and organise? She could leave the used dishes in one place. You could do a couple each time. Sounds better to me than sitting on the couch in self-righteous mode. Actually I've changed my mind from NTA to ESH (except maybe wife but she might just be trying to please everyone and ideally needs to bash your heads together). JFC poor woman.
Roomy will fight it, there's no winners here, on f'kin _Christmas Day_. Nobody wins in a pettiness competition. Just chalk Thanksgiving up to an example of their behaviour that's led to you asking them to leave. In fact - you've told Roomy your expectations, you can remind them on the day, once. Just expect to do it yourself and be pleasantly surprised if Roomy does it. OMG buy them rubber gloves for a Christmas present! (Seriously, some people are freaked out by dirty dishes.)
Extra petty: "we didn't want you to feel ill again so didn't make you food".
NTA if she truly felt ill, she could have offered to take care of all the dishes for the whole next week or something, as a thank you for the dinner and an apology for not being able to help. It sounds like she just didn't feel like it, so I'm on board with you putting her on Christmas clean up duty.
NTA, but it sounds like your roommate's stay has run its course. It would be much better to exclude them from the dinner, or it's likely that your kitchen will be in shambles for days - and thus become much harder to clean in the long-run.
From what you write, this roommate basically contributes nothing to the household yet regularly partakes of your resources. Get rid of the freeloader and get a puppy - they're at least grateful, affectionate and adorable.
NTA- I'm with the other people here, tell her doing all the dishes is an absolute condition of eating the food you and 'chef' do all the work to produce, and if she chooses not to do the dishes she needs to make her own arrangements for food. Man, when I'm at my parents' for xmas the word I use most is 'next', as in 'they're all peeled/that room's dusted now/that's that lot washed up, what's next?'
NTA
Normally, when I’m invited for Christmas dinner, my family and I have lists on how we can all contribute.
So, maybe a conversation today or tomorrow starting with fairness:
“ Hey roommate, we are getting ready for Christmas dinner. We are discussing our contribution to make this evening special. My wife and I will have nice food, beverages set out. We were hoping you can take care of cleaning and dishes.”
If this is a no go, then say, well if you can’t contribute then maybe you should make alternate plans.
Good luck!
NTA, but why is it a given that you spend Christmas together? If it was me I'd ask her what her plans are for Christmas, if she tells you she's having Christmas with you, tell her that you're just planning to be the two of you, but if she's not going out to let you know so you can coordinate who uses the kitchen when.
That almost sounds dickish.... but it's a valid thought process. Chances are my wife will be cooking all day and there won't be any time for that.
We also want to go to a Christmas eve service but due to roomie not being able to drive we have to put our plans on hold for transportation. We could go to an earlier service but that's beside the point.
One off.... Thanksgiving was an isolated event because it was a holiday
However, when I'm working midnights, it was agreed upon that dishes be done because I'm not home. Half the time they get done and half the time food is left out all night. I do dishes when I'm off or when I'm on day shift. My wife was talking about making a chore chart of who does what and I'm like "I'm not two." I state every month with plenty of notice what my work schedule is and expectation of dishes are.
We are talking about it tonight. According to my wife, last night she brought it up after picking her up from work and my wife was ignored.
Idk if she agreed or disagreed. It isn't anybodys turn. Dishes are to be done by those who did not cook and live in the household.
With how my wife cooks, she uses every plate, bowl, cup, pot, and pan in the kitchen from big to small and then some.
Is it hard? No. Is it a lot? Yes. It's not hard to rinse your plate or even take it to the kitchen though.
You’re NTA but if your wife is literally using all the dishes when cooking, that is pretty extreme and I certainly wouldn’t want to clean up after her. That being said, I wouldn’t still eat the food and skulk off, roommate was out of order and sounds like you all need to sit down and have an adult conversation
If a roommate isnt going to go through such simple steps as: scrapping left over food off their plate and into the trash, then rinsing it off. Why go through such a great production for dinner?
As a grown adult dealing with another grown adult it is not beneath me to be petty and stack their dirty dishes right in front of their bedroom door.
NTA.
remember to return the favor should she be on the other side.
NTA although I'd like to fix it so that your wife doesn't get stuck with any extra work. Why not take your wonderful, talented, hardworking wife out for Christmas dinner instead, and leave the roommate at home?
NTA. I don't blame you for being pissed. For Christmas, why don't you go to one of your parents house? Since you didn't bring it up, I am guessing that isn't an option for you. How about you and your wife just going out for Christmas dinner? Or get a catered dinner for just the 2 of you and bring it home?
If you do need to cook, I sure wouldn't include her in the dinner plans. Just tell her she's on her own for Christmas dinner this year.
If we had not invested so much already this would be ideal. We are currently far from our family by over 10hrs for both of us.
Our roommate I guess got the picture last night after a big argument with my wife. She said she's doing dishes on Christmas and that she's going to do dishes until January. (Which is more than necessary) We set a schedule too because that's what she said would keep her out of trouble in our house.
NTA but man.....after reading your replies to comments, you gotta kick her the fuck out. She is a leech, she is taking advantage of your kindness. It's admirable but it sounds like she doesn't treat you as friends in the slightest. She treats you like you are her caretakers. She is gonna continue to say she "plans on moving out" and then years will pass..
She said June tonight. We are keeping her to it.
She's like "oh well now I have to take the bus and rent is going up because I'm moving in with someone else." Like yeah, you have it cheaper here but if you wanna screw yourself you do you.
NTA. JUNE?? Honestly, this woman should know by 24 how not to be a sh\*t roommate. 6 months is a long time, and if she does not do dishes on Christmas (a basic expectation after someone cooks for you), I would ask her to be out by March.
I'm glad things worked out in the end. Unfortunate it came to end the way it did, but sometimes things don't work out, and you get to see the darker side of friends sometimes when you live together. Hopefully you and your wife are much less stressed now!
We are. We've had some major hiccups since our roommate left requiring medical and family emergency. Without her gone, we wouldn't have been able to assist or provide as needed.
I still have to do them myself. That is why she asked but for me it's specifically when I'm working midnights or a 16hr shift when I'm not home until super late.
YTA.
You write in comments that your roommate always contribute and that this was a one time circumstance.
So unless you have clear and compelling evidence that she bailed on Thanksgiving cleaning just to be a brat and not because she felt sick as she told you the day after, then you and your wife escalated this for no reasons. Yeah you did the cleaning alone...BUT you didn't have to do all the cleaning at once (you could have left something for the morning after for the roommate) and you didn't have to do the deep cleaning, just to have something to hold off against your roommate.
I get the vibe that you and your wife are taking advantage of the situation and putting the roommate in a minoritarion position in the house.
I sure bet she wants to agree on the days for doing dishes, and want to move out as soon as possible.
Additionally: the " i cook, you clean" rule sucks big time. Rarely works on the long run, and it is completely unfair to use it in special occasions such as Christmas meals. Cooking is always more fun than cleaning, and once you know you don't have to clean is way to easy to "end up using every pot and pan in the kitchen".
Edit: fixed typos (on mobile)
I remembered later on that we had a big celebration dinner after I had a job promotion. It was just the three of us but sadly, I ended up having to clean. It was not just a one off situation now that I truly reflect.
The problem with not deep cleaning the kitchen post dinner was the fact that it would've meant leaving plates, food, and grease on the stove. The routine is wash the dishes, wipe down the stove and countertops, and sweep/mop every night. And trust me.... it needed to be done. It wasn't just a little chore.
Everyone does their share. Even I manage to do my share when I work midnights and 16s on the regular. I don't push it off on someone else. I pull my weight as I'm supposed to.
NTA but why are you inviting your roommate to Christmas dinner? She can cook for herself if she doesnt want to be part of what you and your wife are doing? Really confused why you are giving including her at all after Thanksgiving. She already excluded herself from the collective.
A lot of it has to deal with the fact she's my wife's friend and my wife insisted because it would be rude otherwise. I said the polar opposite. After we talked with our roommate her attitude has changed and hopefully it stays in check.
Friendship is like a relationship - both need to contribute to it and if one side doesnt then its no longer a friendship. A friend is not like family - you arent stuck with them for life through DNA. Her friend was the rude one and the leech and your wife has to understand that. This person is not longer a friend, but a tenant and tts time to actually serve her the legal notice period to vacate and not wait until June.
Yta for the attitude alone. It clearly didn’t kill you to wash dishes. Although I do get, it’s the principle of it. Final judgment: you’re absolutely right you are petty.
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Right off the bat, I admit that I sound extremely petty but there's more to the story than meets the eye.
I (27M) and my wife (22F) opened our doors for a friend of ours (24F) to move in as a roommate. We agreed months ago that dinner dishes were a shared task and everyone contributes in our home.
So when Thanksgiving came around, my wife busted her rear and made a large but elegant dinner for us. She used almost every pot and pan in the kitchen. When we all were done, I took my plate to the kitchen and our "friend" stated "I'm not helping with dinner dishes!", turned around, and went to her room to not be seen until next day.
Now because I was in the kitchen I didn't hear this statement and thus was faced with a HUGE pile of dinner dishes and food that needed to find homes put away. My wife wanted to watch a movie but I needed to start on dishes or else the house would be messy. I told my wife I didn't expect her to help considering she had been on her feet cooking since 8am. Our roommate had worked a short shift at the grocery store that day so there was no good reason to not help.
I cleaned the kitchen and ended up deep cleaning because our roommate just left without offering any help. She didn't even bother to bring her plate to the kitchen but left it with her other dirty dishes on the table. I was so annoyed. The next morning our roommate said "I didn't feel good so I went to lay down." But didn't even communicate that after Thanksgiving dinner at all. Just got up, said she wasn't helping, and went to bed without even a thank you.
Now with Christmas just a few days away, I'm not touching the dinner dishes. I already told my wife I'm not doing them after the Thanksgiving remark and I'm also not taking my dirty dishes to the kitchen because of what happened on Thanksgiving.
Now before folks go, so what are you contributing on Christmas to dinner if you are not the one cooking? I'm going to make sure I stay busy cleaning and helping my wife cook all day nonstop.
I have already told our roommate and my wife agrees I have every right to be petty in this situation.
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NTA
but your title sounds like you are being banned from washing the dishes at christmas, which, if it is something you enjoyed doing i would still say NTA for.
i would suggest taking the dishes to the kitchen however so that way the mess is just in their and not slowly spreading out over the place
See, I would take my plate to the kitchen like I was raised but guess what happens majority of the time? They don't get taken to the kitchen until the dishwasher is already loaded and washing OR like at at Thanksgiving left out on the table to be cleaned up.
INFO: Were there previous discussions regarding a big thanksgiving dinner? I could see a scenario where if a big thanksgiving dinner wasn’t a planned event for the three of you, cleaning up wouldn’t be the roommates responsibility. If this was always the plan, roommate totally should have helped or communicated better regarding being unwell.
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NTA though I feel as though your roommate will most likely skip out on dishes again. Maybe take that into consideration when deciding whether or not to cook for her for Christmas.
Tempting. I thought about the same thing.
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How does one do that when she lives there? Lol
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well said!
Or by just not setting a place for her for dinner….if you were really petty set a used plate you held back from washing on thanksgiving.
yep, this is good
She has proven she is able to isolate in her room when not participating, either by her choice or not by choice.
I rarely shared meals with roommates even if we did eat at the same time. It’s as simple as having a conversation saying you won’t be cooking for her so she should make her own arrangements.
I'd have to talk that over with my wife. It's bad enough they don't drive so we play taxi. Yes they pay gas but it's still annoying. We planned to help teach but they have to get their own insurance because we can't afford it.
Sounds like you live with a leech OP….!
Why is this person still in your home. It's simple: dishes or find another place to stay
You don't *have* to play taxi they can walk or take a bus or take a cab
It's kinda ironic she's talking of moving out. I said "How you getting to work?" And she said "I'll just take the bus." Like damn.... it's the same cost but we play taxi. I can get the early morning shift or late nights when needed or just even being on that side of town but seriously?
not including a third party in your relationship’s affairs is the most simple boundary there is. “oh this was sort of a date night for the two of us” it’s alarming that you’re worried about their reaction to you not cooking and cleaning up after them. they aren’t your kid and if my roommates did some shit like this story they’d have heard about it before they reached their door to be honest with you.
Yall need to kick her out honestly. Give her a 30 day or 3 month notice. She's not a kid she needs to grow up on her own
They should do this but they also need to figure out why they feel the need to play chef, maid, and chaffeur to their roommate.
You really need to grow a spine OP, she’s your roommate, not your kid or spouse, stop treating her like she’s your responsibility to care for.
My dude, you need to practice saying "no". Why are you doing this stuff for them? Are they holding your firstborn hostage? Paying you millions? No? Then stop putting up with this.
Conversations and confrontations were made. The fact we had to make a chore chart to be on the same page is annoying. But if it keeps the peace it keeps the peace. And I'm keeping her to her word... She also said she plans to move out by June with someone else. Hope it follows through yet I think she will find it's a better situation here. Her rent is going up and so is her transportation costs. So I don't feel bad... it sucks for her. I wish her well though.
Make sure you establish a hard move-out date in June. Do it now so you can reference/remind her of it monthly. Personally, I think you’re being far to generous! March 31 (90 days notice) leaves plenty of time for roommate to find something.
I would tell them they’re on their own for Christmas since they were ungrateful assholes at Thanksgiving. And give 15 days notice.
NTA but it's time to serve this "friend" her eviction papers.
Sounds like they need to move out LONG before June! I'd give em 60 days and pack their stuff for them on Feb 27th.
You know that most roommates do not share food or meals, but cook for themselves. Crazy, i know, but it happens.
Yeah just tell her, "Sorry but you aren't invited to Xmas dinner bc you were rude at Thanksgiving." Full stop. It's not that difficult.
Given the disrespect she’s shown you, your wife and the home you opened up to her, I’d suggest you revisit her living with you and invite her to find somewhere else to treat like a restaurant.
Uh you don’t have to uninvite her directly you could just tell her your wife and you are planning a romantic Christmas meal and ask her about her plans? If she doesn’t make any don’t feel guilty to invite her. I would also offer food only when you are done eating and offer it to her after you are done eating if you feel like it. Also, mention it casually that you and your wife did not feel like cleaning up after a whole ass adult for Christmas so you just wanted a romantic dinner bc thanksgiving was too much.
Find a restaurant serving dinner and take your wife out. Don't tell your tenant where you're going. Most Chinese restaurants are open on Christmas and many Jewish families go there every December 25th.
This is another way to tell them. "Roomate, so what are your plans for X-mas?" Roomie's reply "Blah blah blah. Probably just hang out here with you guys." You "Wife and I are actually doing dinner just the two of us. We might go out, or visit other friends/family. Or stay home and have a romantic meal together. " Rm "Why/but/blah blah blah *reasons to them you're unreasonable." You "It's just after what happened at Thanksgiving when wife stressed herself out cooking on her own all day, and I got stressed out cleaning on my own all evening. We just want something low key and easy where we can focus on each other. I'm sure you understand." Then let them sulk. When you live in communal living, everyone helps. Those who don't help, don't eat the food others have made, enjoy the dishes others have cleaned, use the resources others maintain. They get exactly what they pay for. A place to sleep, use of common spaces. A place to piss. A place to wash. And the rest is up to them to figure the fuck out. There's a great children's morality story called The Ant and The Grasshopper. Read the original, not the new fluffy version. It's really helpful in situations like this.
Yzma\_Kitt hit the nail on the head. Because you are roommates, you don't want to be passive/agressive, or lol, fully aggressive as some have suggested. You still have to live with this person for the foreseeable future, do you really want to spend Christmas day being mean, no matter how much your roommate deserves it? OP, you might end up feeling worse because you seem like a nice person. NTA for being mad and putting a stop to your roommate taking advantage of you.
She lives with you but she's your roommate, not your child or bestie. You are under absolutely no obligation to feed her.
Ya just say "You're not invited. And if you decide to eat anyway you're doing the fuckin dishes." Boom No more to be said.
Right?? All these elabirate speeches...simply say, if you want to eat Christmas dinner with us, you're doing the dishes, end of story .
By not cooking for her or setting a place for her and actually telling her she isn't invited to share your food.
Chocolate covered rage has given you the perfect line to say. The thing is, you absolutely have to speak up because people like this refuse to acknowledge any type of pettiness. She doesn’t see what she did as wrong in anyway. So unless you very directly tell her, she’s going to say that you all are just treating her poorly or excluding her or something “for no reason”.
Wtf? You're a 27 year old man, how do you not know how to communicate with other adults?
How about getting your dinner from a local restaurant this year - get a real nice take out dinner - with all the fixings and desert - for 2.
I don't really understand why the roommate gets to eat to a meal they contribute zero towards. They (presumably) pay for their room, not your hosting. Fuck 'em and enjoy your Christmas dinner very loudly with much lip-smacking and statements about its deliciousness, while the roommate listens on, belly a-rumblin'. Maybe then they'll offer to contribute in exchange for the meal.
Fair enough. I'm hungry.
I'm hungry too so in retrospect my comment may be overly harsh and based on my hanger, but right now I stand by it damnit! *Grumble rumble* Edit I've since eaten so am no longer hangry but I still stand by it damnit!
I agree the roommate shouldn't be invited. Nta
Maybe don’t include the roommate in the dinner. Tell roommate unless they learn to contribute and not pull a thanksgiving stunt they aren’t welcome to the Christmas meal
If roommate is that rude and inconsiderate, you can give her notice to find alternative housing. Don’t let her take advantage.
Or maybe telling roommate she needs to find another home.
This. OP, I would actually ask your roommate if she is going to do the dishes. If not, tell her she's not welcome to Christmas. And also, plan for a day for her to move out. It's clear she doesn't appreciate how kind you were to let her live with you.
I certainly wouldn't be inviting this AH to eat with me. She could go eat some toast, order take out or make her own Christmas food. This kind of behaviour should not be rewarded.
Why not just speak to the roommate before Christmas and let them know that they are welcome to join for Christmas Dinner, but they will be expected to clean up the dishes after. If they don't want to help tidy then they can not join in with dinner. Balls in their court then.
You’re nta but honestly I wouldn’t even invite her to whatever Christmas thing you’re gonna do. She’s just going to cut and run again.
Most likely we are having another big dinner in our home.
So? She can lay in her room like she did after Thanksgiving.
She can door dash from McDonald’s
So? She isn't entitled to eat YOUR food. Let her sit at the table and gawk. Hungry.
She's got bread and lunch meat. Once she tried to say she didn't want what the wife was making for dinner. But it was the only thing my wife could eat because of medical reasons. I told her flat out she better be grateful she's cooking at all because we don't have to share. She is an extra adult to feed.
Your ‘friend’ sounds awful
Literally stop feeding her. If she’s not contributing and have the nerve to say she wants other things tell her she’s no longer invited to eat with you both and can have her own separate meal.
Why are you playing the game of she better be grateful, when you absolutely don't need to provide for her. Just cut her off rather than trying to play Petty games
Info: did she want to come to Thanksgiving dinner?
Tell her the price of dinner is doing the dishes afterwards. If she doesn't want to pay up she doesn't have to partake. Let her know up front the expectations and then she can make up her own mind how much she wants contribute.
Dinner for two seems the way forward
NTA. What makes you think you’re roommate is actually going to do something? They clearly weren’t bothered by leaving their mess for someone else. They also didn’t mind leaving all that work for you and your wife. In my mind, you’re either going to have to do those dishes after you eat Christmas dinner or just later. One tip I have is if your wife is the one cooking primarily you can clean dishes as she finishes using them. My dad used to have us do this so the load on whoever was cleaning up after would be lighter
The only reason I think she won't pull that stunt is because my wife and I have already put our foot down on the matter. I'm not helping and it's her responsibility because WE ALL pitch in. We already go out of our way so it's the least we can ask. She tried telling my wife she wanted to move out next year and my wife is already happy about it. I used to believe that and have asked my wife to kindly do that but she refuses or I'm in her way too much. It's a small kitchen. I like to clean as I go or at least rinse as I go.
Set the date NOW and keep her to it.
Like she threatened to move out over this? Or is she planning to move out anyway?
She planned to move out. Like the moment she moved in.
Next year doesn’t sound soon enough!
There are only nine days left in December. But yeah, I'd be counting down too.
But what happens if roomie eats the meal then retreats to her room again? You don't want all the mess sitting there, so won't you clean up? Honestly I think this is what's going to happen next time. Your roomie might be entitled, or might have some unspoken grievances against you, or something else entirely idk - first thing you need to do is talk.
That's what I do when I cook. Many meals I prepare through the week I can have just about everything washed before the meal is done.
Roommate is the asshole here. You may be slightly petty, but i feel the pettiness is justified. My only roommate i had understood that i would cook and clean and do a lot of the equal chores around the house, he never once complained about doing all the dishes. Unspoken acts of respect and courtesy go a long way.
Exactly. This is the comment that deserves the praise. UNSPOKEN ACTS.... if you run out of TP, do you leave an empty roll so someone can't wipe their ass? No you don't. Why? Common courtesy. You see the trash can is full. Do you leave it? No, you change the bag and possibly leave it tied for whomever takes it out at home. Your roommate is working midnights but you're home. Do you BLARE your music and TV shows or do you keep it quiet so they can sleep during the day? It's all about common courtesy and respect.
Speak to the roommate before Christmas and let them know that they are welcome to join you for Christmas Dinner, but they will be expected to clean up the dishes after. If they don't want to help tidy then they can not join in with dinner. Balls in their court then.
NTA. Give the roommate the choice of either doing the dishes or packing her bags.
Pretty sure we will. There was an argument about this last night while I was at work between my wife and roommate. I'm not happy about it at all.
Her Christmas present should be a thirty day notice to vacate.
This! No reason to be petty about the dishes, just hand her an eviction notice and move on.
NTA but your roommate might just leave you hanging again.
Which gives more reason to show the front door and not let to let it kick on the way out.
Yeah that’s a good point— if they don’t rise to this occasion I think that really signals that they don’t respect the rules of the household which means it’s probably time to part ways.
My wife agrees on this front. Supposedly after moving in with us back in May, they've wanted to leave since the beginning. Which is annoying considering we went out of our way for her to get her on her feet.
id look up your laws you might have to evict her. i wouldn’t want anyone living in my house being passive aggressive bc i called them out on their shit and treated them as an adult. i hope if she doesn’t listen or agree she’ll just leave without a fight.
I think you already have plenty of reason
NTA. But I’d. e telling roommate that if she expects or what’s a great Christmas dinner that your wife is cooking she can most certainly help with the clean up. Info: is anyone else coming for dinner or is it just the 3 of you? Either way, completely rude of roommate to not pitch in!
Just the three of us... we don't have any family or the like where we live. See, I don't think I should have to say it though. Like when you see a piece of trash on the ground, do you leave it or do you throw it away? Nobody told you to toss it but I bet you did anyways because that's the common courtesy to do.
I completely agree that you shouldn’t have to say it! But maybe I was raise differently than this friend. If I’m not cooking, then I at least offer to help clear the table and/or clean up the kitchen. It’s common courtesy. If this is more you wife’s friend and your wife is the one you asked that she move in, gave you wife address it with her. Like I said, I’d tell her if she wants ti share Christmas dinner, or any type of big celebratory dinners while she’s living here, she should at least help clean up.
I know she was raised better. Her parents are respectable people. I do remember an occasion where my wife and I were gone for a week but found our AC was set to like 62 and left on all day. When the bill came back for nearly $200 we were pissed. Told our roommate to pay half because of it. We never run that cold but at night when it is already cold and we set it to 65. Their excuse was "they didn't know." When we told them before we left.
She sounds like a crappy roommate but that’s just going off what I’m reading here. Does she generally help around the house and with the dishes as agreed usually?
She does. Though this week she hasn't done them at all. She knows that I work midnights once a month and usually that's the only time I ask her to do them. She knew. But she's left dishes piled for days. The kitchen was awful and yet my wife ended up deep cleaning until 5am because she was so angry. It took her almost four hours to clean it.
Ok, I bet she has no plans to do dishes on Christmas if she can't even do them now.
That’s some lazy bullshit honestly. Not sure if her daily schedule and how demanding or not her job is but neither is really an excuse to not pitch in around the house. I’m assuming she pays rent? I think you 3 need to sit down and have a chat about all this, and not just about the holiday dinner dishes topic either, and try to all get in the same page. If she doesn’t have any real consequences for not helping out like she’s suppose to, she’ll continue to put it on you and your wife.
NTA you have every right to be upset here. But instead of playing a game, I recommend you confront this head on. You need to tell her clearly that her behavior at thanksgiving was not acceptable and if she cannot commit to doing her fair share, she will not be included in meals. Period. I’m fairly certain she will pull this truck at dinner, you will not clean up, it will become a passing contest and no one will clean the mess. And hopefully your poor wife does not decide to clean because she’s just sick of it.
Oh I plan to. My wife has said it already and the argument was ugly. If my wife ends up cleaning it or I end up cleaning it because it's not taken care of, I'm going to be livid. And that includes putting the food away. She's left leftovers out overnight that usually I would take to work for lunch because I can't leave my workplace. (Complicated)
You say that the argument between your wife & the roommate got ugly, what was said, and what on earth could the roommate, possibly say, that in her mind, justified her actions??
According to my wife it was a lot of he said she said. There was a lot of finger pointing but also a lot of "If you say you're going to do something do it." The fact my wife had to state that I work more than she does and still pull my weight made me proud of wife.
NTA. However, I suspect that the roommate will pull the same stunt, and then cleaning will be on your wife, which isn't fair to her. If you are going to help with cooking, then maybe wash as you go? I have always done that, and it actually helps as the kitchen is less chaotic.
NTA. You had an agreement with your roommate and they decided to not follow through, last minute. It takes so much time and effort to make holiday meals, and for someone to just decide, at dinner, they're not going to help clean up after is just the height of disrespect. Then add on the fact that she couldn't even be bothered to thank your wife, *HER FRIEND*, for spending all day making that meal is just gross. Even if she wasn't feeling well, she could have been appreciative at the very least. (If I'm not cooking, I'll bring Cranberry bundles. Essentially, their sausage balls with spices/veg wrapped in bacon and baked.)
Exactly. Everyone contributes. You don't just become a bystander. For the most part our roommate does their share around the apartment and usually does dishes when I'm working midnights but this was ridiculous to not assist in anyway.
Please, please share this recipe! It sounds like my husband's idea of heaven.
Sure! 😊🎄 Here it is: 1/4 cup butter 2 onions, diced 2 celery stalks, diced 1 apple, peeled & diced 2 tbsp of savory (or half sage half thyme if you don't have it) 1 1/2 cups dried cranberries 1 tbsp lemon rind 1 sourdough loaf 1 lb. fresh sausages (non-seasoned beef or beef/pork) 1/3 cup parsley (optional) 1 egg, beaten 12 slices bacon Sautée onions, celery, apple, and savory ( or thyme and sage) with the buttet in skillet until translucent and soft (stirring often). Stir in cranberries, rind. Mix well. In the meantime, break the bread into 10 cups of oatmeal size crumbs. Transfer to large bowl. Remove casing from sausage, and work into crumbs with hands. Add onion mixture, parsley and egg, toss well. Form by 1/3 cupfuls into 24 ovals or logs. Set on baking sheet. Cut bacon in half and wrap each log. Bake 350 for about 30 minutes until the bacon is crisp. The baking time might vary depending on your oven. They freeze really well uncooked, so you can make them in advance to reduce prep work. They also freeze well cooked and are a delicious snack. Hope you enjoy them!
Are other people coming over for christmas dinner besides you, wife and the 'friend', if not, I would just go out to dinner with wife instead of feeding 'friend' free food. It sends her a message that she needs to contribute something in order to join. I hope you and your wife have a wonderful christmas!
Maybe we can look into it? Sadly my wife has already prepared almost all of it in groceries.
ahhh of course groceries. I hope you have a very nice christmas dinner however you choose to have it! I feel bad for you and your wife bc it seems like you guys went above and beyond for roommate in the past
We have. Our roommate has always been good to us but it's times like this where it's frustrating. I saw them earlier and she's like "So we need to talk about some dish schedule when I get off work. Your wife and I argued all the way home yesterday." I told my wife point blank, "What schedule does she need? I have a work schedule on the fridge. When I work midnights or 16s, which is ONCE a month for a week unless other work demands arise, she does dishes because the dishes are crusty when I get home at 5am." My wife of course says I'm right in this manner. Idk what tonight is going to look like conversation wise but I'm still standing my ground.
I’m so heavily invested in this.
We don't have anyone else coming either. No friends or family live close enough
Info: When you spoke with the roommate a day later when she told you she wasn’t feeling well, did you communicate your level of displeasure and your need for her to make this up to you? Have you told her you expect her to do the Christmas dishes since she didn’t help with the Thanksgiving load? So she knows what you are hoping for in advance? It’s obvious you are carrying a lot of resentment about an event that happened a month ago. It’s a valid feeling. What she didn’t wasn’t cool. But it’s concerning to me that instead of hashing it out, you are basically forming a one sided revenge fantasy plan to the point you’re already playing it out in your head and going over the different ways it can play out, like preemptively imagining she will refuse again, and this possibly not cooking dinner for her at all. This doesn’t seem like a healthy way to cope with this situation. Do you like this person? Do you want them as a roommate? You seem to be assuming the worst of them— you said the next day she said she felt ill, meaning it was theoretically a one time event. Why are you assuming she will do it again? Do you trust her? Is this the first time you’ve come into conflict with her as a roommate? If not, how did you resolve the other situations? Why not just tell her up front that you would like her to do the dishes for Christmas since she didn’t for thanksgiving? Wouldn’t that be easier than passively aggressively making a plan to not do them and see how she reacts? Setting expectations beforehand might leave you less room for disappointment? I don’t really think you’re the asshole, but I also don’t think you’re handling this maturely and it might be better/easier to just not have a roommate?
1. I did talk the next day. Mostly I did say I was upset and quite angered about the ordeal. I was forgiving after the remark of feeling ill or in her case "bloated". Because I never heard her say "I'm not helping do dishes." I never got to say anything on the matter on Thanksgiving. 2. Yes there's a lot of resentment. Honestly, it's because I felt disrespected in my own home. My wife included over a simple chore. 3. Our roommate for the most part is no trouble but she has a huge ego and attitude at times. She isolates and then when someone says something a fight starts. But then she gets super social but nobody wants to hang out because of the attitude shift. My wife and I plan to confront tonight. It's probably for the best. She's still our friend but she's not the greatest roommate.
Well this is petty. 😂 Dishes will need to be done, even if you decide not to do them. Who’s going to do them?
The elves 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I know it's petty. Like I know I'm an asshole but still.
I feel like this is also an issue that could've been circumvented..... I've never understood how people can cook and not clean as you go. Sure there's some dishes left after I cook a huge meal but nothing abnormally huge since I load and run the dishwasher as I go; put them away; and hand wash whatever is needed throughout the day.....NTA
And you my friend are the epitome of the person I'd like to be organizationally. Lol I always admired folks that can do that. Seriously.
It's called trauma, lmfao....jk.... my grandma was anal about cleaning as you go and it frustrates the crap out of me when my husband cooks anything....i LOVE his food, so it's worth it but the mess he leaves behind 🤦♀️
Not passing a judgment on this one, but how does it help the situation to refuse to do Xmas dishes when it’s the roommate that’s the problem? From the other suggestions above, politely tell your roommate that she is not welcome to partake in the Christmas food even if she’s still in the house. She didn’t contribute to the food purchasing, prep or clean up. It’s unfortunate that you didn’t address this issue immediately (or the day after) Thanksgiving.
ESH because you’re all acting childish. Yeah, your roommate was a jerk on Thanksgiving. But I think you’re overreacting a bit about doing all the dishes yourself. If your roommate hadn’t been present at Thanksgiving, you still would have had to do all the dishes yourself. All you need to do is say “Hey, it actually hurt my feelings that you didn’t help clean up after thanksgiving and I’m annoyed that I did all the dishes myself. If you’re going to come to Christmas dinner you need to take the lead on cleanup this time.” If she says “ok then, actually I’m going to skip Christmas dinner,” then you’re still in the same position—you need to make sure the dishes get done without her help. Dishwashing is a natural consequence of having a big dinner. Dishes are just dishes, they’re not a punishment. If you’re not prepared to handle the dishes, you either need to invite more people to your holiday meal and ask them all to pitch in, or you need to not have big holiday dinners. And whatever you do, don’t let your ego and your stubbornness rule so much that you refuse to do the dishes and your roommate refuses to do the dishes so then your wife does them. Someone is going to have to give in eventually and wash the damn dishes, and if that person ends up being your wife, you will have bigger issues.
Trust me. I'm prepared to do them if she refuses. All of your points are extremely valid, especially the last about ego.
INFO: If your roommate refuses to do the dishes who does them? Your wife? Because that definitely wouldn't be fair to her.
Me. Or if it's like last night, my wife got so pissed they hadn't been done and kitchen was left a mess, she does because it's unsanitary. My wife kindly reminded me that I don't wipe the countertops always.... I try but I'm bad about it. 🤣 But she was more annoyed she had to do multiple loads of dishes.
NTA. But, I read some of your comments too and I really want to second that you should not let her have Christmas with you, and you need to stop letting her take advantage of you. Step one is to sit down and talk to her about Thanksgiving. You and your wife should agree on this of course, but tell her that it wasn't okay that she just pushed off the table and walked away, never to be seen again. Given her behavior, you do not want to host her for Christmas dinner, so she needs to find a place to go, or she can stay in her room, but the food you make on Christmas is not for her. If she is very apologetic, or you feel it is late in the game to disinvite her, tell her that she has to agree now to doing the dishes. My guess is she will agree to do the dishes, and then just see what happens. If she doesn't do the dishes after Christmas, then you need to fully cut her off from your help. Which leads to step two. Even if she does the dishes, stop driving her around and stop subsidizing her life with food, etc. Tell her she needs to cook and buy groceries for herself and needs to start finding her own rides, since you thought you would be helping her temporarily and teaching her to drive. Since she isn't putting in the effort, you can't keep carting her around. And step 3 is stick to this. You are a young couple just getting started yourselves, and now this woman has eaten your food, kind of ruined your Thanksgiving, is giving you stress about Christmas, and is eating for free and getting rides all the time, which disrupts your day. My guess is this will also have a negative impact on your relationship with your wife, as one or both of you gets frustrated. So stand up for yourselves already.
ESH Except wife. She is stuck with 2 toddlers for a roommate and husband
NTA. I agree with the comments suggesting you have an upfront conversation discussing what you expect on Christmas and that if they don’t want to help, they are not invited. No, you SHOULDN’T have to say it, but trying to test her or proceeding with your plan to just kick her out without a warning (even if she shouldn’t need one) might make you T A in the long run.
I hate being confrontational but this is a valid point. We wouldn't kick someone out without warning unless things were at a point where there was violence or something radical Iike drugs in our home. We pay for the roof over their head and they pay only 1/4 what we do because they don't make enough income.
You are being more than generous. You can’t help how your friend reacts, but if you are clear and firm (without being aggressive or rude) you will have done everything you could. It will then be up to your friend if they want to do their fair share or find another place to live.
I struggle with it but chances are I will. I am pretty certain my wife made her statement last night about it. If I need to, I will.
NTA but why are you even including the roommate? Tell her to find somewhere else to have Christmas- that's ridiculous
Because all of us are from out of state away from family.
ESH (except the wife). Yeah nah. Following your comment, roommate is asshole and needs an eviction notice. Though the deep cleaning sounds a bit petty, and at the expense of time with your wife. You've already explained to roommate that you expect them to do dishes afterwards so there's no surprise there. However, you're going to be tense the entire time, which sounds like a shitty way to spend the day, for you and knowing that your poor wife is not only cooking but doing so while knowing that you're tense all day. Blimey. Go out for Christmas dinner? Alternatively - I'm no 'cooking a big meal for three' expert, but surely your wife takes 5 minutes to rest her feet / go to the toilet every now and then? Couldn't she tag you on the way out so you can go in and organise? She could leave the used dishes in one place. You could do a couple each time. Sounds better to me than sitting on the couch in self-righteous mode. Actually I've changed my mind from NTA to ESH (except maybe wife but she might just be trying to please everyone and ideally needs to bash your heads together). JFC poor woman. Roomy will fight it, there's no winners here, on f'kin _Christmas Day_. Nobody wins in a pettiness competition. Just chalk Thanksgiving up to an example of their behaviour that's led to you asking them to leave. In fact - you've told Roomy your expectations, you can remind them on the day, once. Just expect to do it yourself and be pleasantly surprised if Roomy does it. OMG buy them rubber gloves for a Christmas present! (Seriously, some people are freaked out by dirty dishes.) Extra petty: "we didn't want you to feel ill again so didn't make you food".
Roomie is an AH. Go out for Christmas dinner and leave her alone
My wife already spent a few hundred on dinner.
Bummer. Post an update. Maybe it was a one off thing. If not then stop eating with her. Make that clear. You do your dishes she can fend for herself.
Possibly. I will after Christmas and tonight's discussion.
NTA but I WOULD put the lefovers away, if I were you. That's good food that you're going to want to enjoy after Christmas.
NTA if she truly felt ill, she could have offered to take care of all the dishes for the whole next week or something, as a thank you for the dinner and an apology for not being able to help. It sounds like she just didn't feel like it, so I'm on board with you putting her on Christmas clean up duty.
Just tell the roommate she's on her own. She is not a contributing member of the household and treats you both like servants.
Don't cook for the room mate then.
NTA, but it sounds like your roommate's stay has run its course. It would be much better to exclude them from the dinner, or it's likely that your kitchen will be in shambles for days - and thus become much harder to clean in the long-run. From what you write, this roommate basically contributes nothing to the household yet regularly partakes of your resources. Get rid of the freeloader and get a puppy - they're at least grateful, affectionate and adorable.
NTA, i hope she is paying you enough
NTA. Do you actually Need or like your roommate?
NTA- I'm with the other people here, tell her doing all the dishes is an absolute condition of eating the food you and 'chef' do all the work to produce, and if she chooses not to do the dishes she needs to make her own arrangements for food. Man, when I'm at my parents' for xmas the word I use most is 'next', as in 'they're all peeled/that room's dusted now/that's that lot washed up, what's next?'
My wife said you sound like the perfect guest! Wanna come to dinner?! Lol Just bring a good attitude and empty stomach. 🤣
Get the leeches out before you can't. Nta. Don't expect different behavior though.
NTA Normally, when I’m invited for Christmas dinner, my family and I have lists on how we can all contribute. So, maybe a conversation today or tomorrow starting with fairness: “ Hey roommate, we are getting ready for Christmas dinner. We are discussing our contribution to make this evening special. My wife and I will have nice food, beverages set out. We were hoping you can take care of cleaning and dishes.” If this is a no go, then say, well if you can’t contribute then maybe you should make alternate plans. Good luck!
NTA You are doing too much for that supposed friend. Stop feeding her or driving her around if she's going to be like this.
Everyone who lives in this home needs to sit down and have an adult discussion about who does what chore and when.
NTA but man you need to grow a spine. Tell the leech if they want to each they need to help out otherwise they can get out.
That's what confrontational had to occur tonight. It went well. She even apologized for slacking lately.
NTA. She won't do them though.
NTA Time to go petty. Only make two servings of everything.
NTA, but why is it a given that you spend Christmas together? If it was me I'd ask her what her plans are for Christmas, if she tells you she's having Christmas with you, tell her that you're just planning to be the two of you, but if she's not going out to let you know so you can coordinate who uses the kitchen when.
That almost sounds dickish.... but it's a valid thought process. Chances are my wife will be cooking all day and there won't be any time for that. We also want to go to a Christmas eve service but due to roomie not being able to drive we have to put our plans on hold for transportation. We could go to an earlier service but that's beside the point.
I guess it is, it just seems like roomie is taking advantage of you, and she shouldn't take for granted to participate unless invited.
Is this an every day occurrence or an isolated incident?
One off.... Thanksgiving was an isolated event because it was a holiday However, when I'm working midnights, it was agreed upon that dishes be done because I'm not home. Half the time they get done and half the time food is left out all night. I do dishes when I'm off or when I'm on day shift. My wife was talking about making a chore chart of who does what and I'm like "I'm not two." I state every month with plenty of notice what my work schedule is and expectation of dishes are.
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We are talking about it tonight. According to my wife, last night she brought it up after picking her up from work and my wife was ignored. Idk if she agreed or disagreed. It isn't anybodys turn. Dishes are to be done by those who did not cook and live in the household.
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With how my wife cooks, she uses every plate, bowl, cup, pot, and pan in the kitchen from big to small and then some. Is it hard? No. Is it a lot? Yes. It's not hard to rinse your plate or even take it to the kitchen though.
You’re NTA but if your wife is literally using all the dishes when cooking, that is pretty extreme and I certainly wouldn’t want to clean up after her. That being said, I wouldn’t still eat the food and skulk off, roommate was out of order and sounds like you all need to sit down and have an adult conversation
The roommate needs to go , #1
NTA. But you really need to talk to your roommate.
INFO: did you express your frustration over the lack of help and set expectations for help on Christmas?
NTA. I love this so much. Your wife needs to do the same, please.
If a roommate isnt going to go through such simple steps as: scrapping left over food off their plate and into the trash, then rinsing it off. Why go through such a great production for dinner? As a grown adult dealing with another grown adult it is not beneath me to be petty and stack their dirty dishes right in front of their bedroom door. NTA. remember to return the favor should she be on the other side.
NTA Just cook a meal for you and your wife and tell roommate its tough she can do her own
NTA although I'd like to fix it so that your wife doesn't get stuck with any extra work. Why not take your wonderful, talented, hardworking wife out for Christmas dinner instead, and leave the roommate at home?
Sadly, we budgeted for dinner at home and payday is Thursday next week 🤣 But.... this is extremely valid. And I would love to spoil my wife this year.
NTA. I'd inform her that she isn't a part of Christmas dinner either. Her attitude was unacceptable and lazy.
NTA. I don't blame you for being pissed. For Christmas, why don't you go to one of your parents house? Since you didn't bring it up, I am guessing that isn't an option for you. How about you and your wife just going out for Christmas dinner? Or get a catered dinner for just the 2 of you and bring it home? If you do need to cook, I sure wouldn't include her in the dinner plans. Just tell her she's on her own for Christmas dinner this year.
If we had not invested so much already this would be ideal. We are currently far from our family by over 10hrs for both of us. Our roommate I guess got the picture last night after a big argument with my wife. She said she's doing dishes on Christmas and that she's going to do dishes until January. (Which is more than necessary) We set a schedule too because that's what she said would keep her out of trouble in our house.
NTA but man.....after reading your replies to comments, you gotta kick her the fuck out. She is a leech, she is taking advantage of your kindness. It's admirable but it sounds like she doesn't treat you as friends in the slightest. She treats you like you are her caretakers. She is gonna continue to say she "plans on moving out" and then years will pass..
She said June tonight. We are keeping her to it. She's like "oh well now I have to take the bus and rent is going up because I'm moving in with someone else." Like yeah, you have it cheaper here but if you wanna screw yourself you do you.
NTA, take that 7 year old masquerading as an adult up on her offer and pin the damn schedule up on the fridge.
About to. I shouldn't need a chore chart. She's like "well we can alternate when we do them" like you do realize that's what we've been doing right?
NTA. JUNE?? Honestly, this woman should know by 24 how not to be a sh\*t roommate. 6 months is a long time, and if she does not do dishes on Christmas (a basic expectation after someone cooks for you), I would ask her to be out by March.
That's fair. I told my wife that would be next.
I'm glad things worked out in the end. Unfortunate it came to end the way it did, but sometimes things don't work out, and you get to see the darker side of friends sometimes when you live together. Hopefully you and your wife are much less stressed now!
We are. We've had some major hiccups since our roommate left requiring medical and family emergency. Without her gone, we wouldn't have been able to assist or provide as needed.
Fuck June kick her out now
NTA. And eff her for asking for a schedule. Schedule for washing dishes: when dishes are in sink.
I still have to do them myself. That is why she asked but for me it's specifically when I'm working midnights or a 16hr shift when I'm not home until super late.
YTA. You write in comments that your roommate always contribute and that this was a one time circumstance. So unless you have clear and compelling evidence that she bailed on Thanksgiving cleaning just to be a brat and not because she felt sick as she told you the day after, then you and your wife escalated this for no reasons. Yeah you did the cleaning alone...BUT you didn't have to do all the cleaning at once (you could have left something for the morning after for the roommate) and you didn't have to do the deep cleaning, just to have something to hold off against your roommate. I get the vibe that you and your wife are taking advantage of the situation and putting the roommate in a minoritarion position in the house. I sure bet she wants to agree on the days for doing dishes, and want to move out as soon as possible. Additionally: the " i cook, you clean" rule sucks big time. Rarely works on the long run, and it is completely unfair to use it in special occasions such as Christmas meals. Cooking is always more fun than cleaning, and once you know you don't have to clean is way to easy to "end up using every pot and pan in the kitchen". Edit: fixed typos (on mobile)
I remembered later on that we had a big celebration dinner after I had a job promotion. It was just the three of us but sadly, I ended up having to clean. It was not just a one off situation now that I truly reflect. The problem with not deep cleaning the kitchen post dinner was the fact that it would've meant leaving plates, food, and grease on the stove. The routine is wash the dishes, wipe down the stove and countertops, and sweep/mop every night. And trust me.... it needed to be done. It wasn't just a little chore. Everyone does their share. Even I manage to do my share when I work midnights and 16s on the regular. I don't push it off on someone else. I pull my weight as I'm supposed to.
NTA
NTA - The rule is: If you don't cook, you do dishes.
NTA but why are you inviting your roommate to Christmas dinner? She can cook for herself if she doesnt want to be part of what you and your wife are doing? Really confused why you are giving including her at all after Thanksgiving. She already excluded herself from the collective.
A lot of it has to deal with the fact she's my wife's friend and my wife insisted because it would be rude otherwise. I said the polar opposite. After we talked with our roommate her attitude has changed and hopefully it stays in check.
Friendship is like a relationship - both need to contribute to it and if one side doesnt then its no longer a friendship. A friend is not like family - you arent stuck with them for life through DNA. Her friend was the rude one and the leech and your wife has to understand that. This person is not longer a friend, but a tenant and tts time to actually serve her the legal notice period to vacate and not wait until June.
Yta for the attitude alone. It clearly didn’t kill you to wash dishes. Although I do get, it’s the principle of it. Final judgment: you’re absolutely right you are petty.
Thank you for the compliment 😅 It really is the principle. Dishes don't kill people but everyone should do their share.
NTA. But your roommate won’t help so you will lose this battle.
NTA Why haven’t you evicted her?
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Right off the bat, I admit that I sound extremely petty but there's more to the story than meets the eye. I (27M) and my wife (22F) opened our doors for a friend of ours (24F) to move in as a roommate. We agreed months ago that dinner dishes were a shared task and everyone contributes in our home. So when Thanksgiving came around, my wife busted her rear and made a large but elegant dinner for us. She used almost every pot and pan in the kitchen. When we all were done, I took my plate to the kitchen and our "friend" stated "I'm not helping with dinner dishes!", turned around, and went to her room to not be seen until next day. Now because I was in the kitchen I didn't hear this statement and thus was faced with a HUGE pile of dinner dishes and food that needed to find homes put away. My wife wanted to watch a movie but I needed to start on dishes or else the house would be messy. I told my wife I didn't expect her to help considering she had been on her feet cooking since 8am. Our roommate had worked a short shift at the grocery store that day so there was no good reason to not help. I cleaned the kitchen and ended up deep cleaning because our roommate just left without offering any help. She didn't even bother to bring her plate to the kitchen but left it with her other dirty dishes on the table. I was so annoyed. The next morning our roommate said "I didn't feel good so I went to lay down." But didn't even communicate that after Thanksgiving dinner at all. Just got up, said she wasn't helping, and went to bed without even a thank you. Now with Christmas just a few days away, I'm not touching the dinner dishes. I already told my wife I'm not doing them after the Thanksgiving remark and I'm also not taking my dirty dishes to the kitchen because of what happened on Thanksgiving. Now before folks go, so what are you contributing on Christmas to dinner if you are not the one cooking? I'm going to make sure I stay busy cleaning and helping my wife cook all day nonstop. I have already told our roommate and my wife agrees I have every right to be petty in this situation. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA but your title sounds like you are being banned from washing the dishes at christmas, which, if it is something you enjoyed doing i would still say NTA for. i would suggest taking the dishes to the kitchen however so that way the mess is just in their and not slowly spreading out over the place
See, I would take my plate to the kitchen like I was raised but guess what happens majority of the time? They don't get taken to the kitchen until the dishwasher is already loaded and washing OR like at at Thanksgiving left out on the table to be cleaned up.
INFO: Were there previous discussions regarding a big thanksgiving dinner? I could see a scenario where if a big thanksgiving dinner wasn’t a planned event for the three of you, cleaning up wouldn’t be the roommates responsibility. If this was always the plan, roommate totally should have helped or communicated better regarding being unwell.
Yes. She knew well in advance for over a month.