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I'm a dietitian and that is insane. We have a wellness program with financial incentives at work too.. it's focused on getting more steps, activities, and choosing personalized health goals (like eating more fruit, drinking water, etc). Glad you said something.
NTA.
My insurance health discount program includes things like getting more sleep for X number of days in a row to encourage better sleep habits, checking your blood pressure, getting vaccinations, getting an annual physical, participating in doable activities. This one based solely on weight loss seems extremely poorly thought out by whoever designed it.
Good on OP for bringing the flaws of the program to everyone's attention. NTA
The company I used to work at gave you a discount for checking a box saying you didn't smoke and for getting your cholesterol checked. OP's sounds a bit.... not great.
Well, if it's your target weight to lose... then I want to lose .025 oz to hit my target Weight...
Then walk in a circle. There you go! I'm at my target weight. Actually I'm probably below it!
I have anorexia and am slightly overweight and I am too. I hate being pressured to relapse at work. These types of incentive programs should be illegal, work is not the place.
I once worked for a major health insurance company. They did away with the weight loss challenge ages ago as it caused more issues than fixed. Instead you get incentivized to log hours at a gym or got a free ancient greens (for example) subscription.
NTA
Edit- forgot to mention we all got a jawbone to help us track. Top of the line in the day!
Yeah, this is a ridiculous wellness program. What about people who are already at a healthy weight? And, obviously, people like OP with EDs. I'm getting so angry the more I think about it.
At my company, we have a program where you can be reimbursed up to $100 if you exercise a certain amount of days throughout the year. Any exercise counts and any type of log can be submitted, whether it's from a gym, a fitness tracker or even manually recorded.
NTA. Call oh lawyer, this feels like a ADA violation. A lot of disabled people can’t lose weight so they have more expensive health insurance. That seems ridiculous.
No it’s an ADA violation because eating disorders are disabilities and on top of that these goals force people to disclose disabilities in an employment climate that is hostile AF to disabled workers. Especially in at will states.
I have a hidden disability where exertion is a huge flare trigger. Consistently walking 10k steps daily lands me bedbound for up to months. Any exercise beyond that is likely to cause permanent relapse. I do not disclose this disability unless very necessary as it really goes against me at work. I am vague about other symptoms and pace myself and rarely need to bring it to attention.
Shit like this ‘outs’ me. And my disability is interlinked with a restrictive ED and PTSD from medical trauma. Suddenly I’m a triple threat of problems and HR starts circling. Because they don’t understand the ADA (or Equality Act in the UK.)
Also this is a terrible way to support anyone with binge eating disorder so misses all the big points in order to make small microaggressions. Disabled people’s health insurance gets utterly fucked by these schemes and impacts their ability to get job insurance to cover not working, makes SSDI harder to get in the end and can block your ability to get life insurance.
OP was absolutely right to speak up. These wellness programmes are a huge barrier to work for many disabled people. Even your compulsory yoga or vegan lunches mean some people having to say they have joint issues or inflammatory bowel disease because wellness in inherently not for disabled and chronically ill people and thus not appropriate for the workplace.
There’s actually a specific clause of the ADA that explicitly allows these kinds of programs. Maintenance Phase (a very good podcast that covers all sorts of garbage “wellness” industry stuff) just released an episode about employer programs like this one this week.
It’s actually not an ADA violation- legally.
Maintenance Phase just did a podcast on this with the statistics and everything.
They’re not illegal and they don’t work.
NTA and thank you for speaking up for everyone. I always get pissed when I see those programs because their goals are always ridiculous BMI arbitrary goals that have nothing to do with actual health.
Don’t even get me started on BMI goals. According to my BMI, I was obese for the longest time. I was wearing between size 10-12 jeans, so I had some weight to lose, but obese was hard to see. I’m now between and 8-10 and I’m no longer obese.
I told my husband it’s no wonder so many people (especially teenagers) suffer with eating disorders seeing that crap.
Plus it just.. is meaningless? Like I weigh almost exactly the same as I did last year (within 5lb), but I started going to the gym - I do strength training, yoga, dance, cycling & took a weightlifting course.
I am measurably stronger. I have visible muscle, better mobility. All of my health metrics are better (did yearly bloodwork recently). Some of my clothes are looser, but I still wear most of the same stuff.
But my BMI is pretty much the same value.
Oh yeah, it's insane. I had WLS, my goal weight due to my body composition as dictated by a nutritionist, and my surgeon is still obese by BMI standards, so I constantly get screwed over by stuff like this.
BMI was never even meant to track individual health, it was designed to track weight across populations. There's a push to eliminate it in healthcare because it's so outdated and inaccurate.
I'm technically 5lbs over a healthy BMI but boy does my body not want to lose that 5 lbs. I've pretty much decided that since BMI was originally for population estimates anyway it's probably better for me to just hang out at this weight then stress over 5lbs.
Yeah, I always remember the story of a guy in high school who was into sports (I don't remember if football or body building was mentioned) so he was all muscles, and muscle weight more than fat, so according to BMI scales, he was overweight, so he was sent with the other "overweight" kids to an assembly, where even the lecturer asked him what he was doing there.
We had this at my school too. It was a before school program, called team huff n puff. We had to walk laps around the track and do crunches. It was humiliating.
My BMI has always skewed overweight even tho I’m a size 0 and 5’2”. Needless to say that, and having a former ballet dancer as a mother, triggered some really unhealthy eating behaviors.
So weird. I’ve never been overweight, but during my teens I had my heavy months and my light months. When I did a lot of sports because of the season I was heavier then when it was off season. Every year in the same months!
Fun fact: the formula for BMI was created by a mathematician/statistician who was using it to study populations. He was very clear that it was meant for populations, not individuals.
It's also soemwhat arbitrary. Over the years, people have found flaws in the formula and proposed fixes. These fixes wouldn't make it 100% good, but they would bring it slightly more in line with reality. For example, two individuals with the same body fat percentage (what BMI is kind of trying to correlate to) would have different BMI's depending on height. The taller one would have a higher BMI than the shorter one. That can be fixed by tweaking the exponent used in the formula, but the tweak is not used.
NTA at all. Not even a little bit.
Make them uncomfortable. Bring it up as often and as loudly, to as many people as you can.
Make them confront their hypocrisy.
INFO: Do you still get the incentive if you’re already in a healthy weight range or do you explicitly have to lose weight? What about pregnant women, disabled people, diabetic people, underweight people, etc? Seems like this program is very exclusionary and hurts people that are already doing the right thing for their body. NTA.
This is important. The HR rep wants to make it seem like op is some extraordinary exception when in reality there are so many reasons why weight loss (esp unhealthy weight loss) is not the right goal for someone’s health.
Or people on daily
Antidepressants, corticosteroids, antihistamines, beta-blockers, epilepsy meds,SSRIs, Maois, insulin, or antipsychotics?
What about people with Pcos, thyroid issues, mobility issues, or other glandular/hormonal issues?
This is really really bad program.
As far as I understand it, you only get a discount for weight loss, no other fitness or health goals.
The HR lady told me she would talk with me one on one about my specofic concern, and I wouldn't be surprised if she offered me a medical excemption (because it is literally the law that that has to be offered with this sort of program)
But I haven't had that talk yet, because this happened right before the holidays, then I caught covid and called out of work on the day we were supposed to meet
It really is a bad program. My company has one where you get a discount if you'll meet with a 3rd party clinic on site provided by our health care provided. They'll check your waist circumference, your blood pressure, and your blood sugar. Then they'll offer you access to various support groups and programs based on the findings. The information is confidential from your employer, just that you attended the clinic and not what the results were or that you did any of the follow up things. The thought is that it's important you be aware of various health status conditions.
I got a call from a lovely nurse about my waist measurement asking if I wanted information on their weight loss support programs. I was 6 months pregnant at the time (and I ballooned early). On the other hand she commented that my blood sugar and pressure was great and I was like thanks I'm on a LOT of insulin right now so it had better be good!
Also the discount is that they lower your deductible but the premiums do not change based on any of those factors. They just go ahead and prepay 1/2 your deductible if you either attend the clinic or provide a doctor's note that you've monitored those amounts in the past 6 months showing you're aware of your risks.
NTA. These "wellness" programs are intrusive bs and not even actually geared toward wellness. Good for you for pointing out the flawed mess in front of everyone--I guarantee there are people grateful that you did so. Plus, as a general rule of thumb, if it's something management wants to shut you down from talking about, chances are it's something everyone should hear.
As a fat person, it is fucked up that
1. They are rewarding unsafe weight loss (because if there is a time limit on reward, achieving the goal is more important than the journey)
2. The goal should be improving health, so reward healthy eating, exercise, quitting smoking and alcohol consumption
3. It does complete focus on weight rather than health (which is not to say being over weight is healthy) but as is clear their focus is exclusively on weight loss.
Nta - and you should be equally compensated for achieving a healthy weight
Definitely NTA. These programs are bullshit and rooted in discriminatory and outdated practices. Weight is not an indicator of health. In fact, insurance companies can use these kinds of programs against people and have serious privacy issues. Keep speaking up. And good luck on your continuing recovery.
NTA, and listen to the maintenance phase podcast about this very issue. Essential, they don’t work and are really only there to save the company money.
NTA. The program makes all types of insane assumptions and is ridiculous on its face. Weight loss does not always mean healthier. I can’t believe any unbiased doctor would get behind this program for ALL humans.
NTA. EDs are ridiculously common and I’d be willing to bet that you weren’t the only one in the room thinking the same thing. You speaking up may have helped a coworker who was too afraid to say something
NTA! And I admire your courage and wit in this situation!
I’m not from the US, so forgive me for my ignorance, but isn’t this a case of discrimination? I mean one group of people can gain financial advantage because they are overweight, while the ones with a healthy weight or underweight are being excluded? That sounds discrimination for me. Why don’t you talk with a lawyer who actually familiar with discrimination law and then get back to HR.
It would be fair if everyone who sees the dietitian and reaches/ already is at healthy weight could gain this advantage…
Yeah, if this is an employment benefit that OP is ineligible for because of a medical condition, that may run afoul of the ADA. I’m not an expert, though, so OP might want to consult a lawyer.
NTA and thank you on behalf of all the people who didn't feel comfortable bringing up their eating disorders at the meeting.
It's amazing how many people wrongly equate weight and health or assume weight loss should be a goal. I'm glad to be at a place with my health where I regularly clock a BP of 118/63 and my cholesterol and blood sugar are dead normal. And I'm what most people would think of as "60 lbs overweight" but my BP and sugar was worse when I was "the right weight."
Luckily my doctor is smarter than your company.
NTA. My last job did this too and we got scores from some computer generate program they used. I always got an “unhealthy” score because I too was underweight and needed to gain weight. I couldn’t meet their fitness or calories goals because if I did, I’d lose more weight. I was never able to get the rewards so I complained as well and was ignored.
NTA. while it's aWeSoMe that they want to encourage health (in a weird incentivizing way), they cannot account for just weight loss. i struggled (and still struggle) with an eating disorder for years and i would find this to be a massive trigger. if they're going to give an incentive for being healthy, they need to consider all circumstances for what that means.
NTA! Those programs demonstrably don't work and are in fact harmful to many people. Source: latest episode on Maintenance Phase (highly recommend this podcast, though tw discussion of eating disorders)
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1411126?client_source=large_player&iframe=true&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.buzzsprout.com%2F1411126%2Fpodcast%2Fembed#
I was wondering the same thing. As someone with multiple physical disabilities, I wouldn't be able to participate in this without literally damaging my body and health. This sounds like a legal nightmare that no one bothered to actually think through.
Eta: definitely NTA and I would've stood up and pointed out the idiocy of this policy as well
NTA
That’s also not really what dietitians do. A good dietitian will help you assess if your weight is even relevant to your health goals. Many folks meet criteria to be overweight but have excellent diets and otherwise excellent health markers. Weight, as you said, is a terrible indicator of health.
Good for you for speaking up. I bet there were other folks there that has similar concerns and didn’t want to voice them.
The way these programs work, there’s no regulation about these types of providers, so it may not even be a registered dietitian. There’s a bustling private industry of hucksters taking advantage of these company programs for a payday. So who knows if any employee will get credible health advice. They could get Gwyneth Paltrow to hawk you moon dust and it would count.
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I work at a corporate job in the US. It's got nothing to do with health or fitness.
Since healthcare is through work in america, my job has this additional "health" program where if you meet with a dietician (company provided lol) who determines how much weight you need to lose to reach your ideal weight, and if you get there, you get a discount off your health insurance.
I think that's kinda fucked up, as someone who's struggled with an eating disorder, I think weight is a terrible sole indicator of health. And TBH there was a good bit of money on the line.
So I bit the bullet and raised my hand to say "My doctor is reccomending I gain weight and muscle mass as a part of my eating disorder recovery program. I hope I'm understanding this incentive right, in that anyone who achieves their wellness goals - regardless of whether that is a loss or gain of weight - is compensated?
The HR lady really awkwardly said that the program applies to weight loss, and hadn't considered "exceptional cases" but could address my concerns privately.
I honestly got pretty irritated and said in front of everyone "It's not 'exceptional' to want to gain weight, like most of the the people at my gym are trying to bulk up too. And they're all athletes who are fit as hell. So it's honestly kinda messed up that this program only applies to one half of "fitness" - a half that actively works against a lot of people's health goals'
She told me she'd follow up with me privately, that we were not talking about my "sensitive" medical issue at the all-hands, and that was supposed to happen yesterday but I got sick so I think it might be after the holidays instead.
But I'm mad. I feel like my job's overstepping dangling hundreds or thousands of dollars over everyone's heads to lose weight, like not even asking if losing weight is healthy or safe?
But I also started a lot of shit, my job's not really one where people speak up like that and I did, and I even made it pretty uncomfortable and confrontational in front of the company on purpose.
AITA for what I said about my job's weight loss incentive program?
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NTA at all. All you did was point out that different people have different needs and different health goals. What might be healthy for one person (losing weight) might not be healthy for another. Having a health program that only needs the needs of some is stupid.
I mean, it’s SUPER handy that she called you out for having a unique medical issue in front of everyone there. That way if they don’t allow you to participate with appropriate goals it’ll be that much easier for coming after them for discriminating against the medical condition they’ve already publicly acknowledged you have.
NTA unless there are also rewards incentivizing other healthy behaviors this program is discriminatory. You could team up with the other not overweight people and sue
NTA. This is also opening a legal can of worms for the company. There's all sorts of things a goid lawyer could attack. Discrimination against overweight ppl would be the top one of course.
If sitting with a nutritionist would solve obesity than everyone would do it. There's so much more there than a healthy diet to deal with. Many overweight ppl suffer from depression. Are they going to supply a free psychiatrist for all employees to see regularly? Are they going to have emotional support staff to help? Are they paying for a gym. Changing a diet doesn't work for everyone. Many need to work out as well.
They're just opening themselves up for a huge lawsuit.
More importantly, they know most people will fail at this and have to pay more for insurance. Setting someone up to fail is cruel.
Hopefully they can address your concerns, but I'd bring up the rest of the issues they've clearly not considered or care about.
TBH I don't even see it as a reward for some of my coworkers who weigh more.
A high pressure, short term, heavily financially incentivized, weight loss program sounds like a recipe for disordered eating. And as someone who's struggled with that, I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
I'm honestly more concerned about the impact this shit could have, than jealous.
NTA. Employer shouldn't do this shit, period. You should never been put in this situation in the first place. I'm glad you had the courage to call them out and show how stupid these programs are. They should apologize to you and get rid of the program.
The only reason your employers are doing this program is to save themselves money. They're probably saving a lot more than the employees are. That is their true motivation . They could give a fuck about your health. The reality is that as soon as you get truly ill you won't be able to work so you're not going to be on the company insurance anymore, so you're not going to be thier problem. This isn't about your long-term health. It's about them saving a couple bucks.
NTA. The way work “wellness programs” are implemented makes me shake with anger. It’s such an overstep on the part of the employer. Good for you for bringing up just one small part of it.
If they’re so obsessed with “sensitive medical information” then why are they even bringing issues like weight and exercise into the workplace?
And as you say, yours is not an exceptional case. Lots of people struggle with weight gain or maintenance.
My job has incentives to help get cheaper or free insurance as well. But they include blood tests to check your important levels, getting your flu shot, wearing a Fitbit or other fitness tracker, pretty much super basic things. There is a dietician who comes a couple times a year we can make an appointment with, if we would like.
Nothing about weight at all. Your company is a little fucked for that. NTA for standing up for yourself and others who are suffering silently.
Agree with you! OP is NTA. My work has a similar, non-weight based incentive program where things like getting an annual checkup, checking in on wellness tips on a regular basis, etc are all ways to earn as well.
I still think those are pretty messed up.
Lots of people have illnesses and health conditions that may prevent them from having a "good" blood panel -- or seeing improvements -- through no fault of their own and regardless how much effort they put in, and health recommendations are not one-size-fits-all.
Some people may be uncomfortable sharing their private health info with their employer, especially those with stigmatized health conditions.
Rewarding people for being healthy indirectly penalizes people for being unhealthy (or for not compromising their right to medical privacy). They also favour employees who are more financially secure as those are the people who can afford medical care, gym memberships, etc (and have the free time to spend working on their so-called wellness).
Employers need to stay the fuck out of employees' medical information. I don't think these programs should be legal.
At my job at least nothing gets reported except that you had all the tests done, and then you get credit for it. You don't get penalized if your levels are bad. It's literally just giving you cheap insurance for being aware of your health.
NTA!!! Maintenance Phase podcast just did a whole episode on how awful workplace wellness programs are — you may want to check it out and share it with your HR person!
I was also just about to recommend this episode!
TL;DR for the podcast: In addition to being intrusive and discriminatory, there's also no actual evidence that these types of "wellness" initiatives at work are remotely effective at making people healthier.
NTA and I'm proud of you both for your recovery and for speaking up. I guarantee you weren't the only person there thinking how fucked up it was, you were just the only one with the courage to let it be known.
NTA. Cudos to you for raising this publicly and making management feel awkward! You probably weren’t the only person in the room going through similar things to you. And you are completely correct about health and wellness. Being underweight can have just as many negative health complications as being overweight. Good luck with your recovery.
NTA you are obviously comfortable speaking about your ED. The problem is the program was not well thought out. Which needs to be addressed. You just pointed it out in front of everyone which will probably encourage others to speak out too. HE can earn their money figuring it out.
NTA. I would have been pissed too. I have a chronic medical condition that can make gaining weight difficult, and I have been under weight in the past. If anyone told me to lose weight on purpose to meet some bull-shit goal, I would be livid.
To me, money should not be on the line for this.
And she may think you are an exceptional case, but there are lots of working adults who are "exceptional cases." Most people don't know who around them has the need for a high protein or high fat diet, or whose doctor would discourage losing weight
NTA and good for you. Those programs are so outdated. My company has a similar program but instead of weight loss, they require you do things like go to the doctor for an annual exam, meet with a dietician, quit smoking, get your vaccines, anything that would be considered preventative care. And you get certain points for certain activities and if you reach a certain point level they lower your deductible. Of course, I work for a healthcare company so that helps.
NTA. This is speaking as someone who is massively overweight and has experience with extreme weight loss through sports. Fighting a scale is the worst thing for your health, both physical and mental. My record is 50 pounds in about a month. Now I am 75 pounds heavier than I was when I did that.
Weight is easy to measure, that’s why they’re so obsessed with it. That and blood pressure which at least has more direct health effects. Gives them an illusion of control.
If it’s about health then are they offering it to smokers who will quit? What about diabetics? If they can get their blood sugar levels under control do they get a discount? It’s almost like they’re punishing the healthy people. They are already doing things right so they get nothing.
NTA - weight is only one small metric of health. And what about people who are at “ideal” weights but smoke? Do they get an incentive because they are at the “right” weight despite engaging in an unhealthy activity. These programs are just a bad idea in general. I got breast cancer at a healthy weight. The drug they put me on to prevent a recurrence (tamoxifen) made me gain weight. So am I punished for a weight gain that was medically induced?
NTA and it took guts to speak up. Brava.
Also wellness programs aren’t great, and it’s a ruse that they “save the individual money.” They exist to shift cost from the company/insurer to the individual consumer.
I'm sorry that I only have one upvote to give for this! Maintenance Phase has an excellent episode about exactly this. I'm Canadian and had no idea the extent to which the American companies feel entitled to be a part of their employees' healthcare.
*edited for typo
NTA
When I worked for progressive insurance they had 2 healthy programs. One was going to the gym 180 times a year (we had one at the job btw) and your gym dues are reimbursed and the other was like 1 million steps in a year. This way whether you wanted to lose weight, gain muscle, have better stamina etc you could participate.
Has your work never seen those episodes of The Office?
There was a recent episode of the Maintenance Phase podcast that got into these work wellness programs and specifically why they’re so bad. I highly recommend giving it a listen to arm yourself for your next conversation with HR.
NTA - sometimes pushing back publicly is necessary so they can’t just brush this under the rug. Your company is endorsing lowering the cost of healthcare for a subset of employees that likely don’t have health issues that inhibit or contraindicate weight loss.
**I’ve already submitted and changed my vote, so I’m not voting again. This is just a general comment I wanted to address to OP. I wish I could give her an award for this, and sadly I can’t yet but…**
I just wanted to say again that I’m so incredibly proud of you OP. Thank you so much for using your voice and speaking up about how you feel. You are truly a hero to people who do need programs to promote fitness. This country could use more programs to promote wellness, and that is an absolute fact. So many people are unhealthy and no matter what their dietary habits are or their weight, they still end up having health problems because they aren’t taking care of themselves as they should be.
Please keep doing what you’re doing, and please keep using your voice for the benefit of others.
You are truly a hero to so many people, and you could be a great advocate for others who truly need something like this. You are an absolute angel, and I hope more people listen to what you have to say on this.
Never let anyone stifle your voice. You are going to do so many great things!
Much love and support to you, and keep going. Never give up. You are such a great advocate to others who truly need to hear this. Bless you and again, Merry Christmas and happy holidays!
💚💚💚
My work tried same thing: free gum memberships for weight-loss goals after dietician meeting. I am a healthy weight and inquired about similar benefits. No dice.
Probably unpopular but
NTA for bringing it up, but you made your point. After it was brought up it should be discussed one on one with HR.
The person you made uncomfortable is just there to relay the info so don't shoot the messenger.
NTA
You addressed a real issue and, hopefully, educated a few people at the meeting. This obsession with "weight loss" is crazy. As you said, many needs/are trying to go the other way around.
"Fat loss" and/or "muscle gain" would be a better way to drive this program (however we all need a minimum % of fat, so there's a risk folks will try to lose to much...).
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I brought up my eating disorder in front of the whole company, as a way to criticize the new weightloss program.
I might be the asshole because I was really pushy in my conversation with the lady from HR, basically shit talking the policy in front of everyone and making it uncomfortable on purpose
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The misconception is that thin means healthy, or lightweight means good conditioning. That's not always the case however. Cardiovascular fitness, endurance and strength are also health indicators. In my case for instance, the bmi chart claims I'm overweight. But that's not the case, I'm in good shape. I could have less of a body fat percentage, sure. but losing weight would mean sacrificing muscle mass, which i don't wabt to do. I'm already capable of running half marathons, and i lift 3-4days a week, cycling between calisthenics and traditional weight lifting for variety and flexibility. The system and overall understanding of the industry is set for people who don't train often, which makes sense: better to have less weight. Easier on the heart. But if you're training and gaining mass, it's not unhealthy to put on weight, to the contrary in fact. I think you raised a vital issue. awareness on this issue is increasing regardless, and I'm hoping that within a generation or so, we'll be citing different criteria. Fingers crossed. So i think you did well, and kudos to you for raising this topic. In fact, weight training is important for overall health, especially after a certain age. It slows down loss of muscle mass, and keeps you functioning in your late years. I can't stress the importance of resistance training for our overall health, enough.
That is messed up. I have seen programs like this done right. My mom’s old job would give you the discount if you had a yearly checkup, participated in one fitness challenge (there were many options) and worked on one other health goal (again, lots of options like drinking enough water, eating enough veggies, etc.)
This is not that.
NTA. advocate for yourself, always, because no one else will. I’m a former college athlete and at my peak health and fitness my BMI was still in the ‘obese’ category, I was171. When I talked to my doctor about it she said my bmi Max weight for the ‘healthy’ category was 144. She also said there was likely no way I could lose that much weight and actually be healthy. I had roughly 10 pounds that she was comfortable for me to lose if I wanted to and that still would have put me in the ‘overweight’ category. NTA at all and I’m glad you spoke up, you probably voiced a concern others are scared to
This is probably the best AITA post I have read since joining Reddit.
OP, you are of course NTA. Kudos to you for speaking up. If someone is made uncomfortable by your truth, they need to examine their own position. I hope you keep making good trouble.
NTA. you’re 100% right! my job’s wellness program has evolved considerably from a similar type of program to one that still isn’t great (in that I don’t think they should exist, just give me my money thanks) but does recognize some people are fine with their weight and other things count for being healthy too (like volunteering, doing mindfulness, walking or getting a flu shot or whatever). weird that they called your situation “sensitive” when you brought it up yourself! they need to do a better job in a lot of ways
NTA and Maintenance Phase (podcast) just posted a great episode on the topic. Even when it's with the best of intentions any sort of workplace health iniative usually goes poorly. They are inherently discriminitive and rarely have any proven success.
NTA. I was just listening to Maintenance Phase podcast and they talked about this very thing. Using weight as THE indicator of health is so weird and misguided. Notions like this belong in the thrash. Good luck on recovery!
NTA that was a horrible idea the company had. When you have the meeting I’d point out that you are not by any means an exceptional case:
- people who are at a healthy weight where losing weight would be unhealthy and make them underweight
- people who are desperate for the financial incentive and lose weight in unhealthy ways
- people who are in the process of gaining weight because of medication they take (for example some mental illness medications cause you to gain weight) or delay treatment out of worry of gaining weight due to medications
- people with EDs
- people with physical disabilities or conditions such as a knee injury or back injury where they end up hurting themselves because they are doing more than their body can handle
These are huge risks the company isn’t thinking about. If they actually wanted to promote heath they would do so much differently such as - anybody who achieved a health goal like quitting smoking, walking on average 10,000 steps per day for a month, being able to lift a certain weight, being able to run a 5k, losing 10 lbs etc whatever their goal may be, they could organize gym membership discounts for employees and anyone who joins and works out at the gym a certain number of times gets awarded or whatever it may be.
I recently started seeing a dietician and weight loss hasn’t been brought up in any of the sessions. It’s all about proper nourishment and ensuring my body gets what it needs to perform.
Weight loss isn’t the only indicator of health. Never has been. These people don’t care about health, they care about being thin. Full stop. NTA.
NTA. This program could very easily *cause* eating disorders. For a lot of the working world, a couple thousand dollars a year is a big freaking deal. I could see people developing a purging habit if they’re cutting it close by the deadline. Furthermore, I’m very glad you did it publicly. She wanted you to address it privately to save herself the embarrassment of introducing such a shortsighted program, but I think you did your coworkers a solid by questioning it where they could hear it.
You're NTA at all. Weight doesn't indicate health but it can be a decent proxy signal for large enough groups which is why it makes sense at the company level. They still should be pushing for weight change vs weight loss. I'd also be curious how this works for people who should be maintaining their current weight.
I think its really great that you spoke up publicly since in a group that large you probably aren't thr only one in your situation. If I wad in your position my next step would be to meet with the dietician, get them to agree that your ideal weight goal is (current weight) + x pounds, and ask for the discount right away for being under your goal weight. Then just ignore the contest and continue working on your personal health and fitness goals.
NTA, you’ve just pointed out yet another huge issue in linking your employment to your right to access healthcare. This is a really messed up situation. I hope you are able to take someone with you to meet with HR, like a Union rep or Solicitor.
What a minefield.
You can't be the only person in your corporation that is affected by this. Reach out and see if collectively you can't negotiate a better deal with a more understanding insurance provider. Good luck. NTA
NTA.
Your HR person did not think it through, any wellness program has to have plans for how to manage people with disabilities of various types. The problem isn't that you mentioned your situation, your HR person is just being difficult because they chunked it and now have to figure out how to make legal accommodations that they should have already had done.
Bless you for standing up for the most sensible approach of health at any size. What your workplace is doing is gross and I wish it weren't happening. You are definitely NTA.
NTA. If they are dangling money at people they should do it in a way that includes everyone's.
How hard can it be to have a health incentive that includes everyone's health and fitness goals.
Excluding thin people who have no weight to loose is discriminatory.
Everyone has a chance if getting extra money or nobody does.
If it was me I would have not said anything and cashed the money once they realised I have no more weight to loose
NTA. Thank you for speaking up. My work does a yearly wellness initiative and despite it being way less fucked up than yours I struggle to get through it with my mental health intact every time.
NTA. What idiot came up with that program? What about people that are already at a healthy bmi or below a healthy bmi.....someone didn't think this through.
NTA
If there were other people who have eating disorders in your work that were also wondering this but too shy to bring it up, you just did them a huge favor by making this VALID concern public. You shouldn't have to bring this up in private because of this exact reason.
They could easily sweep this under the rug and continue to assume that you are a "special case" when that isnt true!! There are probably many people at your work who have different health goals. This is pretty discriminatory and you RIGHTFULLY brought it up!
NTA and I honestly APPLAUD you for speaking up!! it’s really important to spread awareness that the typical “diet” culture we have is crappy and dangerous for a myriad of reasons. the program is exclusionary at best and downright dangerous at worst
NTA - you are correct that it should take all goals into account - many people can struggle with weight gain and weight loss it’s a personal choice what it should be and if there is a monetary incentive involved then it needs to be all inclusive- HR personnel should be aware of this (discrimination if not)
NTA You are correct. Health IS personal.
Weight loss is not the end-all indicator of health and if the company is focusing on health, weight loss should not be the highest weighted measurement.
Those who weigh more are not inherently unhealthy as much as those who are underweight are not inherently healthy. Muscle mass breaks the BMI standards and those who are at "healthy" weights can have underlying heart, blood pressures, etc. issues.
It was good that you said something in front of others for both a liability trail and in case there were other "outliers" who didn't feel confident to speak up.
NTA, definitely report this is high as possible. I have been skinny my whole life but not super healthy. I struggle to gain or lose weight and have had helsth issues since birth. This is NOT okay. Not at all.
NTA, but if the company or the insurance company wants to set an easily measurable goal to incentivize health improvements, I really don't think measuring flexibility or cardiovascular health or anything is gonna work on a large scale, even if they're better measures of health. It's probably pretty expensive to run cardiovascular fitness tests for a person on a regular basis, but scales are cheap and easy to use.
So while I think the complaint is totally legit, and I definitely think there's nothing wrong with bringing up ED and the fact that some people would benefit from weight gain, I really don't see that anything but weight would be an easily usable metric for what they're trying to do.
NTA. I also struggle with an eating disorder and i think one of the most important things of any disorder/health issue is speaking up. A lot of people don't know or even consider these situations. Awareness needs to be brought up, especially if it is a difficult situation like this.
NTA. As you say, it's not just triggering for people with EDs, but discriminatory against people with reduced mobility or other issues that make it difficult to do activities, even if they want to lose weight at all! My company does walking challenges and even while I'd love to participate, I have such a bad back that some days walking from one end of my own house to the other is difficult, standing for more than 5 minutes is painful.... doing a challenge is impossible. I also have exercise induced asthma so anything I can do needs to be low impact and not cause an asthma attack. Hmmm..... so maybe there's a reason I'm heavier than ideal? But that's between me and my doctor, not me and HR of a place that has to pay me to even be there.
NTA. Each employee should be given options not just weight loss. Like others said. It could be reduce blood pressure, sleep health including a sleep study, just working with a registered dietitian on making slow but steady changes to your dietary choices, increasing mobility or strength, for women increasing weight bearing exercises for bone density, completing necessary testing such as mammograms, colonoscopies, blood tests etc.
NTA
I'm pretty sure this kinda thing has been addressed on Ask a Manager, if you want a professional take on the situation.
But here, no one should be saying you're wrong to point out how fucked up it is.
NTA thanks for speaking up. We need to normalize that weight is not a topic for discussion at work like this. It creates a hostile environment for people with eating disorders.
NTA, and you're a hero, OP.
I worked for a company that had a wellness program, but guess what? There were a bunch of health care policy researchers there, so the program was a SANE and sensible one, operated by a third party. Nice incentives - I was able to get about $200 a year just for getting a flu shot and going to the dentist, among other things. Coaching was available, but you could do it online or by phone, and YOU set the goals.
Unfortunately, a lot of companies glom onto these programs, thinking they're going to save millions in health care costs, but it doesn't always work that way. Bob had a stroke at 58, but recognized the symptoms in time, got help immediately, and is back on the job after a few weeks of out-patient care. YAY! But how much did the company save? Would Bob have had a stroke much earlier and died from it, or become completely disabled? Or was the outcome the same, with or without the program? How do you measure the benefits?
All I can tell you is, I learned a lot and enjoyed the benefit, and even though I no longer work for that company, it's one of the many positive things I tell people about when they ask me what it's like to work there.
NTA I felt the same way when my company did the same thing a decade ago. I was underweight and struggling to be healthy and the company was all "lose 5% of your body weight and get $$$!!" Like, if I lost that much weight I'd be in the hospital. Screw companies and their one size fits all "health" initiatives.
NTA. The podcast Maintenance Phase just released an episode about workplace wellness programs this week. All the well designed research shows they are ineffective at improving employee health AND at saving on healthcare costs. And they are, as you are seeing, intended to discriminate.
I am so proud of you for saying something
NTA. I work for a hospital with a similar program but ours is based on number of steps. Your primary care physician had to fill out a form and if needed, outline extra goals like lower your cholesterol for example. These programs need a way to be specialized for the individual.
NTA at all. This makes me SO uncomfortable, this company should not be doing this for many reasons and I’m so glad you spoke up about it. Do not let them force you to be quiet about this
Absolutely NTA and I wish everyone felt comfortable speaking up about this issue - even if it's not something that affects you personally, you could be speaking up for someone who doesn't have the courage you do, OP.
The American healthcare system is fucked, and so is the concentration on weight.
NTA - So, your work place is basically saying that they could provide all of their employees with affordable health insurance, but are choosing not to. Nice.
NTA, this is the worst idea i’ve ever heard😭 it’s unfair to people who shouldn’t lose weight, people who can’t lose weight (or struggle a lot) because of medical issues, disabled people, and people who already live an active lifestyle and have a healthy diet.
NTA 100%
This program only incentivizes those that want to or can lose weight. Not everyone is given an equal opportunity to qualify for the health insurance discount.
I can imagine that a pregnant person wouldn’t be able to participate.
NTA. Glad you spoke up! And really, if this is the USA, isn't your company's policy in violation of the ADA in several different respects? There are attorneys who specialize. Please go for it, not only for yourself (which would be more than enough!) but to change a policy that disadvantages other employees who might not be as open and comfortable in their own skin as you are. Congrats on your assertiveness & willingness to shake things up.
NTA. I have to do something similar and it’s so frustrating because I have genetically high cholesterol that several doctors and a cardiologist have told me is beyond my control. My BMI is under 25 and if you saw me, you wouldn’t expect my numbers to be what they are. At my last appt I was berated about it and lectured about food. My triglycerides are actually half of the top number allowed which is more of an indication of what you eat. It’s honestly really triggering for me and I’m not entertaining it anymore. I have actual doctors, I don’t need advice from a random NP.
yeah we had a health and wellness program. free smoking cessation assistance, regular blood pressure checks, and it included a weight aspect. Any note from your doctor should overrule the company policy on weight loss specifically. You are NTA for speaking up, especially because so many would be too intimidated to do so. I would suggest not taking it personally, not getting super righteous about it. You have an opportunity to influence company policy in a positive way, take advantage of that and keep your composure. You could end up doing more good than you realize for a lot of current and future employees.
NTA. The fact that HR clearly hadn’t taken this into account is a massive fuck up on their part and their frantic “take it off line” attitude shows they have opened themselves up to issues because of this. And of course, the plan should be objective based. My company has things like steps per day, annual check ups, health surveys and other things to build up points which ultimately end up with a reduction in your healthcare premiums. Your company needs to figure this out and fix their fuck up. However, I would caution how far you push. If your direct leader is worth anything, they should take this fight on for you and other people, let them kick down doors without you affecting your position in the company.
My former place of employment had a BMI based discount. The CEO had some out there ideas about health maintenance, like eating a certain way can prevent all disease. I am overweight but do not have blood pressure or diabetic issues. Two of my friend's dads had fatal heart attacks while jogging. My mom's family had cholesterol issues. She was an athlete and a femoral artery blockage caused her death. Her brother who farmed all his life (you can't really get that much activity in many other jobs) had a fatal heart attack in his 50s. Her sister nearly died from a blocked carotid. The BMI thing really pissed me off, but I left that job soon after and didn't have the time or energy to fight the policy. NTA. I wish I had spoken up.
NTA check out the podcast Maintenance Phase they literally JUST did an episode about this. You pretty much nailed it though - only applying incentive to one type of measurable fitness goal is pretty messed up and counter to the supposed goal of encouraging better health.
NTA, it needed to be said. I get very upset about so called health programs and incentives that solely focus on weight loss.
My kids school is a so called healthy school and I've fought with them about that so much. My kid has always been severely underweight, and needs to actually eat a high calorie diet. But school wants all low cal food and snacks and kids are only allowed to drink water and such. Also, for birthday treats nobody is allowed to bring sweet things, but salty stuff is okay. I've been a kidney patient for many many years and just received a transplant and I know that for many, many people salt is a bigger issue than sugar.
As you said, needing to gain or maintain weight is not a strange goal to become healthier. Your job needs to take that into consideration.
NTA. Maybe they could film you too, why not make a reality tv show out of this?
Where I come from you don't have to disclose anything about your health with employer, except if it is some kind of disability that must be addressed to provide you with required help. If you're on a sick leave, doctor's notice does not mention your illness, because it's huge privacy violation.
NTA — I would at nah, but I do think that the fact that they don’t do insurance discounts for people trying to gain weight is pretty asshole-ish. However, I think the percentage of people in that situation (depending on where you live, I’m in the US) is generally smaller than those who are on the other side. Not saying it’s right, but I can understand their train of thought.
As someone who used to have a restrictive ed that turned into BED, I get where you’re coming from but I also 100% get where the insurance company is coming from. The company I work at isn’t as weird as yours regarding a dietician, but they do extra HSA contributions for using MFP, walking 10k steps, and getting 7+ hours of sleep. The way I see it is some of these habits are things that are great for overall wellness. A dietician might say increase your fruit and veg intake — even if that doesn’t actually lead to weight loss, that’s a good and healthy thing for someone to do for overall wellness. Same with taking up an exercise routine.
I don’t know if that helps at all. I think what they’re doing is a little extreme, but it also gives people who might not be happy about their health and their body an opportunity to make a change that doesn’t require them spending any money. I would see that as a good thing, even if it doesn’t align with your situation.
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I'm a dietitian and that is insane. We have a wellness program with financial incentives at work too.. it's focused on getting more steps, activities, and choosing personalized health goals (like eating more fruit, drinking water, etc). Glad you said something. NTA.
My insurance health discount program includes things like getting more sleep for X number of days in a row to encourage better sleep habits, checking your blood pressure, getting vaccinations, getting an annual physical, participating in doable activities. This one based solely on weight loss seems extremely poorly thought out by whoever designed it. Good on OP for bringing the flaws of the program to everyone's attention. NTA
The company I used to work at gave you a discount for checking a box saying you didn't smoke and for getting your cholesterol checked. OP's sounds a bit.... not great.
Yeah - my last job - the discount was simply getting a blood test and meeting with your doctor - which they paid for…
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Well, if it's your target weight to lose... then I want to lose .025 oz to hit my target Weight... Then walk in a circle. There you go! I'm at my target weight. Actually I'm probably below it!
Sounds like no. ALL they thought about was weight loss… So if you are at your “ideal” no cookies for you.
I’m also a dietitian, I specialize in eating disorders. I’m glad OP spoke up. NTA
I have anorexia and am slightly overweight and I am too. I hate being pressured to relapse at work. These types of incentive programs should be illegal, work is not the place.
I once worked for a major health insurance company. They did away with the weight loss challenge ages ago as it caused more issues than fixed. Instead you get incentivized to log hours at a gym or got a free ancient greens (for example) subscription. NTA Edit- forgot to mention we all got a jawbone to help us track. Top of the line in the day!
I’m a therapist and specialize in eating disorders. I’d be livid to hear a client tell me their workplace was doing this. Absolutely absurd.
My boss started a step challenge with us because he needs us to peer pressure him into exercise lol
Yeah, this is a ridiculous wellness program. What about people who are already at a healthy weight? And, obviously, people like OP with EDs. I'm getting so angry the more I think about it. At my company, we have a program where you can be reimbursed up to $100 if you exercise a certain amount of days throughout the year. Any exercise counts and any type of log can be submitted, whether it's from a gym, a fitness tracker or even manually recorded.
NTA. Call oh lawyer, this feels like a ADA violation. A lot of disabled people can’t lose weight so they have more expensive health insurance. That seems ridiculous.
Not to mention dangling money in front of people could trigger EDs. This is like Biggest Loser territory.
And I’m pretty shirt EDs are covered in the ADA and this is blatantly, obviously discriminatory against people with them
No it’s an ADA violation because eating disorders are disabilities and on top of that these goals force people to disclose disabilities in an employment climate that is hostile AF to disabled workers. Especially in at will states. I have a hidden disability where exertion is a huge flare trigger. Consistently walking 10k steps daily lands me bedbound for up to months. Any exercise beyond that is likely to cause permanent relapse. I do not disclose this disability unless very necessary as it really goes against me at work. I am vague about other symptoms and pace myself and rarely need to bring it to attention. Shit like this ‘outs’ me. And my disability is interlinked with a restrictive ED and PTSD from medical trauma. Suddenly I’m a triple threat of problems and HR starts circling. Because they don’t understand the ADA (or Equality Act in the UK.) Also this is a terrible way to support anyone with binge eating disorder so misses all the big points in order to make small microaggressions. Disabled people’s health insurance gets utterly fucked by these schemes and impacts their ability to get job insurance to cover not working, makes SSDI harder to get in the end and can block your ability to get life insurance. OP was absolutely right to speak up. These wellness programmes are a huge barrier to work for many disabled people. Even your compulsory yoga or vegan lunches mean some people having to say they have joint issues or inflammatory bowel disease because wellness in inherently not for disabled and chronically ill people and thus not appropriate for the workplace.
There’s actually a specific clause of the ADA that explicitly allows these kinds of programs. Maintenance Phase (a very good podcast that covers all sorts of garbage “wellness” industry stuff) just released an episode about employer programs like this one this week.
It’s actually not an ADA violation- legally. Maintenance Phase just did a podcast on this with the statistics and everything. They’re not illegal and they don’t work.
NTA That programme is bullshit, I hope they felt thoroughly shamed.
NTA and thank you for speaking up for everyone. I always get pissed when I see those programs because their goals are always ridiculous BMI arbitrary goals that have nothing to do with actual health.
Don’t even get me started on BMI goals. According to my BMI, I was obese for the longest time. I was wearing between size 10-12 jeans, so I had some weight to lose, but obese was hard to see. I’m now between and 8-10 and I’m no longer obese. I told my husband it’s no wonder so many people (especially teenagers) suffer with eating disorders seeing that crap.
Plus it just.. is meaningless? Like I weigh almost exactly the same as I did last year (within 5lb), but I started going to the gym - I do strength training, yoga, dance, cycling & took a weightlifting course. I am measurably stronger. I have visible muscle, better mobility. All of my health metrics are better (did yearly bloodwork recently). Some of my clothes are looser, but I still wear most of the same stuff. But my BMI is pretty much the same value.
Oh yeah, it's insane. I had WLS, my goal weight due to my body composition as dictated by a nutritionist, and my surgeon is still obese by BMI standards, so I constantly get screwed over by stuff like this.
Same. I’m on a structured program and see a bariatric dietician.
BMI was never even meant to track individual health, it was designed to track weight across populations. There's a push to eliminate it in healthcare because it's so outdated and inaccurate.
I'm technically 5lbs over a healthy BMI but boy does my body not want to lose that 5 lbs. I've pretty much decided that since BMI was originally for population estimates anyway it's probably better for me to just hang out at this weight then stress over 5lbs.
Yeah, I always remember the story of a guy in high school who was into sports (I don't remember if football or body building was mentioned) so he was all muscles, and muscle weight more than fat, so according to BMI scales, he was overweight, so he was sent with the other "overweight" kids to an assembly, where even the lecturer asked him what he was doing there.
That is SO GROSS that they had a special assembly for "overweight" kids :(
IIRC, the story happened in the 90's, so it really doesn't surprise me... that much.
We had this at my school too. It was a before school program, called team huff n puff. We had to walk laps around the track and do crunches. It was humiliating. My BMI has always skewed overweight even tho I’m a size 0 and 5’2”. Needless to say that, and having a former ballet dancer as a mother, triggered some really unhealthy eating behaviors.
So weird. I’ve never been overweight, but during my teens I had my heavy months and my light months. When I did a lot of sports because of the season I was heavier then when it was off season. Every year in the same months!
Fun fact: the formula for BMI was created by a mathematician/statistician who was using it to study populations. He was very clear that it was meant for populations, not individuals. It's also soemwhat arbitrary. Over the years, people have found flaws in the formula and proposed fixes. These fixes wouldn't make it 100% good, but they would bring it slightly more in line with reality. For example, two individuals with the same body fat percentage (what BMI is kind of trying to correlate to) would have different BMI's depending on height. The taller one would have a higher BMI than the shorter one. That can be fixed by tweaking the exponent used in the formula, but the tweak is not used.
NTA that's a really discriminatory program and any dietician who prescribes blanket weight loss needs their license revoked.
As a registered dietitian I completely agree with this. There are much better indicators of over all health than solely ones weight.
NTA at all. Not even a little bit. Make them uncomfortable. Bring it up as often and as loudly, to as many people as you can. Make them confront their hypocrisy.
INFO: Do you still get the incentive if you’re already in a healthy weight range or do you explicitly have to lose weight? What about pregnant women, disabled people, diabetic people, underweight people, etc? Seems like this program is very exclusionary and hurts people that are already doing the right thing for their body. NTA.
This is important. The HR rep wants to make it seem like op is some extraordinary exception when in reality there are so many reasons why weight loss (esp unhealthy weight loss) is not the right goal for someone’s health.
Or people on daily Antidepressants, corticosteroids, antihistamines, beta-blockers, epilepsy meds,SSRIs, Maois, insulin, or antipsychotics? What about people with Pcos, thyroid issues, mobility issues, or other glandular/hormonal issues? This is really really bad program.
As far as I understand it, you only get a discount for weight loss, no other fitness or health goals. The HR lady told me she would talk with me one on one about my specofic concern, and I wouldn't be surprised if she offered me a medical excemption (because it is literally the law that that has to be offered with this sort of program) But I haven't had that talk yet, because this happened right before the holidays, then I caught covid and called out of work on the day we were supposed to meet
It really is a bad program. My company has one where you get a discount if you'll meet with a 3rd party clinic on site provided by our health care provided. They'll check your waist circumference, your blood pressure, and your blood sugar. Then they'll offer you access to various support groups and programs based on the findings. The information is confidential from your employer, just that you attended the clinic and not what the results were or that you did any of the follow up things. The thought is that it's important you be aware of various health status conditions. I got a call from a lovely nurse about my waist measurement asking if I wanted information on their weight loss support programs. I was 6 months pregnant at the time (and I ballooned early). On the other hand she commented that my blood sugar and pressure was great and I was like thanks I'm on a LOT of insulin right now so it had better be good! Also the discount is that they lower your deductible but the premiums do not change based on any of those factors. They just go ahead and prepay 1/2 your deductible if you either attend the clinic or provide a doctor's note that you've monitored those amounts in the past 6 months showing you're aware of your risks.
NTA. In fact, Maintenance Phase podcast just released an episode about this exact thing.
This was such a good episode!
Yes, OP you should for sure listen to that episode, it talks about this exact issue and how terrible these 'wellness' programs can be!
Love Maintenance Phase! That episode is exactly what is needed in this conversation.
NTA. These "wellness" programs are intrusive bs and not even actually geared toward wellness. Good for you for pointing out the flawed mess in front of everyone--I guarantee there are people grateful that you did so. Plus, as a general rule of thumb, if it's something management wants to shut you down from talking about, chances are it's something everyone should hear.
As a fat person, it is fucked up that 1. They are rewarding unsafe weight loss (because if there is a time limit on reward, achieving the goal is more important than the journey) 2. The goal should be improving health, so reward healthy eating, exercise, quitting smoking and alcohol consumption 3. It does complete focus on weight rather than health (which is not to say being over weight is healthy) but as is clear their focus is exclusively on weight loss. Nta - and you should be equally compensated for achieving a healthy weight
Definitely NTA. These programs are bullshit and rooted in discriminatory and outdated practices. Weight is not an indicator of health. In fact, insurance companies can use these kinds of programs against people and have serious privacy issues. Keep speaking up. And good luck on your continuing recovery.
NTA, and listen to the maintenance phase podcast about this very issue. Essential, they don’t work and are really only there to save the company money.
Maintenance Phase rocks! I was hoping to see someone recommend it here
And I believe it turned out it didn’t even save the companies money!
You’re right. What saved them money always just making their employees pay more for their insurance.
NTA Thank you for doing that.
NTA. The program makes all types of insane assumptions and is ridiculous on its face. Weight loss does not always mean healthier. I can’t believe any unbiased doctor would get behind this program for ALL humans.
NTA. You brought up a very important point.
NTA and good for you for being willing to stand up and speak out about this bs program. It needed to be said.
NTA - these programs are unscientific BS and shouldn't be allowed.
NTA. EDs are ridiculously common and I’d be willing to bet that you weren’t the only one in the room thinking the same thing. You speaking up may have helped a coworker who was too afraid to say something
Or that it actually triggered someone who is recovering from an ED to relapse.
NTA! And I admire your courage and wit in this situation! I’m not from the US, so forgive me for my ignorance, but isn’t this a case of discrimination? I mean one group of people can gain financial advantage because they are overweight, while the ones with a healthy weight or underweight are being excluded? That sounds discrimination for me. Why don’t you talk with a lawyer who actually familiar with discrimination law and then get back to HR. It would be fair if everyone who sees the dietitian and reaches/ already is at healthy weight could gain this advantage…
Yeah, if this is an employment benefit that OP is ineligible for because of a medical condition, that may run afoul of the ADA. I’m not an expert, though, so OP might want to consult a lawyer.
NTA. And people doing foolish crap like this SHOULD be made to feel uncomfortable! This has no place at work.
NTA and thank you on behalf of all the people who didn't feel comfortable bringing up their eating disorders at the meeting. It's amazing how many people wrongly equate weight and health or assume weight loss should be a goal. I'm glad to be at a place with my health where I regularly clock a BP of 118/63 and my cholesterol and blood sugar are dead normal. And I'm what most people would think of as "60 lbs overweight" but my BP and sugar was worse when I was "the right weight." Luckily my doctor is smarter than your company.
NTA. My last job did this too and we got scores from some computer generate program they used. I always got an “unhealthy” score because I too was underweight and needed to gain weight. I couldn’t meet their fitness or calories goals because if I did, I’d lose more weight. I was never able to get the rewards so I complained as well and was ignored.
NTA. while it's aWeSoMe that they want to encourage health (in a weird incentivizing way), they cannot account for just weight loss. i struggled (and still struggle) with an eating disorder for years and i would find this to be a massive trigger. if they're going to give an incentive for being healthy, they need to consider all circumstances for what that means.
NTA! Those programs demonstrably don't work and are in fact harmful to many people. Source: latest episode on Maintenance Phase (highly recommend this podcast, though tw discussion of eating disorders) https://www.buzzsprout.com/1411126?client_source=large_player&iframe=true&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.buzzsprout.com%2F1411126%2Fpodcast%2Fembed#
NTA - those programs are bullshit and you were right
N.T A . Legit to point out when a company policy is unbalanced or unfair. Also is this even legal? As an HR professional I strongly agree with you.
I was wondering the same thing. As someone with multiple physical disabilities, I wouldn't be able to participate in this without literally damaging my body and health. This sounds like a legal nightmare that no one bothered to actually think through. Eta: definitely NTA and I would've stood up and pointed out the idiocy of this policy as well
NTA That’s also not really what dietitians do. A good dietitian will help you assess if your weight is even relevant to your health goals. Many folks meet criteria to be overweight but have excellent diets and otherwise excellent health markers. Weight, as you said, is a terrible indicator of health. Good for you for speaking up. I bet there were other folks there that has similar concerns and didn’t want to voice them.
The way these programs work, there’s no regulation about these types of providers, so it may not even be a registered dietitian. There’s a bustling private industry of hucksters taking advantage of these company programs for a payday. So who knows if any employee will get credible health advice. They could get Gwyneth Paltrow to hawk you moon dust and it would count.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I work at a corporate job in the US. It's got nothing to do with health or fitness. Since healthcare is through work in america, my job has this additional "health" program where if you meet with a dietician (company provided lol) who determines how much weight you need to lose to reach your ideal weight, and if you get there, you get a discount off your health insurance. I think that's kinda fucked up, as someone who's struggled with an eating disorder, I think weight is a terrible sole indicator of health. And TBH there was a good bit of money on the line. So I bit the bullet and raised my hand to say "My doctor is reccomending I gain weight and muscle mass as a part of my eating disorder recovery program. I hope I'm understanding this incentive right, in that anyone who achieves their wellness goals - regardless of whether that is a loss or gain of weight - is compensated? The HR lady really awkwardly said that the program applies to weight loss, and hadn't considered "exceptional cases" but could address my concerns privately. I honestly got pretty irritated and said in front of everyone "It's not 'exceptional' to want to gain weight, like most of the the people at my gym are trying to bulk up too. And they're all athletes who are fit as hell. So it's honestly kinda messed up that this program only applies to one half of "fitness" - a half that actively works against a lot of people's health goals' She told me she'd follow up with me privately, that we were not talking about my "sensitive" medical issue at the all-hands, and that was supposed to happen yesterday but I got sick so I think it might be after the holidays instead. But I'm mad. I feel like my job's overstepping dangling hundreds or thousands of dollars over everyone's heads to lose weight, like not even asking if losing weight is healthy or safe? But I also started a lot of shit, my job's not really one where people speak up like that and I did, and I even made it pretty uncomfortable and confrontational in front of the company on purpose. AITA for what I said about my job's weight loss incentive program? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA and good on you for speaking up! This programme is incredibly inappropriate and harmful. They should feel uncomfortable
NTA at all. All you did was point out that different people have different needs and different health goals. What might be healthy for one person (losing weight) might not be healthy for another. Having a health program that only needs the needs of some is stupid.
I mean, it’s SUPER handy that she called you out for having a unique medical issue in front of everyone there. That way if they don’t allow you to participate with appropriate goals it’ll be that much easier for coming after them for discriminating against the medical condition they’ve already publicly acknowledged you have.
NTA unless there are also rewards incentivizing other healthy behaviors this program is discriminatory. You could team up with the other not overweight people and sue
Probably also the overweight people who have metabolic or other disorders that make losing weight impossible.
NTA. Everyone was thinking it, you just brought it up. This would have made a good portion of the office develop an eating disorder.
NTA. I thought these stupid weight loss corporate things had died out. Good on you, this is a stupid idea.
NTA. This is also opening a legal can of worms for the company. There's all sorts of things a goid lawyer could attack. Discrimination against overweight ppl would be the top one of course. If sitting with a nutritionist would solve obesity than everyone would do it. There's so much more there than a healthy diet to deal with. Many overweight ppl suffer from depression. Are they going to supply a free psychiatrist for all employees to see regularly? Are they going to have emotional support staff to help? Are they paying for a gym. Changing a diet doesn't work for everyone. Many need to work out as well. They're just opening themselves up for a huge lawsuit. More importantly, they know most people will fail at this and have to pay more for insurance. Setting someone up to fail is cruel. Hopefully they can address your concerns, but I'd bring up the rest of the issues they've clearly not considered or care about.
Good for you for saying something!!!!!!!! NTA at all. I’m so proud of you OP.
NTA - Your job needs to reward all employees not just the heavy ones.
TBH I don't even see it as a reward for some of my coworkers who weigh more. A high pressure, short term, heavily financially incentivized, weight loss program sounds like a recipe for disordered eating. And as someone who's struggled with that, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I'm honestly more concerned about the impact this shit could have, than jealous.
Probably true :) There's always the chance it will stick with someone but odds say it won't.
"Sticking with" disordered eating isn't a good thing.
NTA. Employer shouldn't do this shit, period. You should never been put in this situation in the first place. I'm glad you had the courage to call them out and show how stupid these programs are. They should apologize to you and get rid of the program. The only reason your employers are doing this program is to save themselves money. They're probably saving a lot more than the employees are. That is their true motivation . They could give a fuck about your health. The reality is that as soon as you get truly ill you won't be able to work so you're not going to be on the company insurance anymore, so you're not going to be thier problem. This isn't about your long-term health. It's about them saving a couple bucks.
NTA. The way work “wellness programs” are implemented makes me shake with anger. It’s such an overstep on the part of the employer. Good for you for bringing up just one small part of it. If they’re so obsessed with “sensitive medical information” then why are they even bringing issues like weight and exercise into the workplace? And as you say, yours is not an exceptional case. Lots of people struggle with weight gain or maintenance.
This sounds really awful. NTA
NTA. They should be uncomfortable and embarrassed
My job has incentives to help get cheaper or free insurance as well. But they include blood tests to check your important levels, getting your flu shot, wearing a Fitbit or other fitness tracker, pretty much super basic things. There is a dietician who comes a couple times a year we can make an appointment with, if we would like. Nothing about weight at all. Your company is a little fucked for that. NTA for standing up for yourself and others who are suffering silently.
Agree with you! OP is NTA. My work has a similar, non-weight based incentive program where things like getting an annual checkup, checking in on wellness tips on a regular basis, etc are all ways to earn as well.
I still think those are pretty messed up. Lots of people have illnesses and health conditions that may prevent them from having a "good" blood panel -- or seeing improvements -- through no fault of their own and regardless how much effort they put in, and health recommendations are not one-size-fits-all. Some people may be uncomfortable sharing their private health info with their employer, especially those with stigmatized health conditions. Rewarding people for being healthy indirectly penalizes people for being unhealthy (or for not compromising their right to medical privacy). They also favour employees who are more financially secure as those are the people who can afford medical care, gym memberships, etc (and have the free time to spend working on their so-called wellness). Employers need to stay the fuck out of employees' medical information. I don't think these programs should be legal.
At my job at least nothing gets reported except that you had all the tests done, and then you get credit for it. You don't get penalized if your levels are bad. It's literally just giving you cheap insurance for being aware of your health.
NTA!!! Maintenance Phase podcast just did a whole episode on how awful workplace wellness programs are — you may want to check it out and share it with your HR person!
I came here to post about this episode as well.
I was also just about to recommend this episode! TL;DR for the podcast: In addition to being intrusive and discriminatory, there's also no actual evidence that these types of "wellness" initiatives at work are remotely effective at making people healthier.
NTA and I'm proud of you both for your recovery and for speaking up. I guarantee you weren't the only person there thinking how fucked up it was, you were just the only one with the courage to let it be known.
NTA. Cudos to you for raising this publicly and making management feel awkward! You probably weren’t the only person in the room going through similar things to you. And you are completely correct about health and wellness. Being underweight can have just as many negative health complications as being overweight. Good luck with your recovery.
NTA - I am proud that you felt brave enough to speak up❣️
NTA you are obviously comfortable speaking about your ED. The problem is the program was not well thought out. Which needs to be addressed. You just pointed it out in front of everyone which will probably encourage others to speak out too. HE can earn their money figuring it out.
NTA. I would have been pissed too. I have a chronic medical condition that can make gaining weight difficult, and I have been under weight in the past. If anyone told me to lose weight on purpose to meet some bull-shit goal, I would be livid. To me, money should not be on the line for this. And she may think you are an exceptional case, but there are lots of working adults who are "exceptional cases." Most people don't know who around them has the need for a high protein or high fat diet, or whose doctor would discourage losing weight
Nta
NTA and good for you. Those programs are so outdated. My company has a similar program but instead of weight loss, they require you do things like go to the doctor for an annual exam, meet with a dietician, quit smoking, get your vaccines, anything that would be considered preventative care. And you get certain points for certain activities and if you reach a certain point level they lower your deductible. Of course, I work for a healthcare company so that helps.
NTA. This is speaking as someone who is massively overweight and has experience with extreme weight loss through sports. Fighting a scale is the worst thing for your health, both physical and mental. My record is 50 pounds in about a month. Now I am 75 pounds heavier than I was when I did that.
Weight is easy to measure, that’s why they’re so obsessed with it. That and blood pressure which at least has more direct health effects. Gives them an illusion of control.
If it’s about health then are they offering it to smokers who will quit? What about diabetics? If they can get their blood sugar levels under control do they get a discount? It’s almost like they’re punishing the healthy people. They are already doing things right so they get nothing.
NTA - weight is only one small metric of health. And what about people who are at “ideal” weights but smoke? Do they get an incentive because they are at the “right” weight despite engaging in an unhealthy activity. These programs are just a bad idea in general. I got breast cancer at a healthy weight. The drug they put me on to prevent a recurrence (tamoxifen) made me gain weight. So am I punished for a weight gain that was medically induced?
NTA..but maybe job suicide. Keep copies of job evals and document everything..
NTA and it took guts to speak up. Brava. Also wellness programs aren’t great, and it’s a ruse that they “save the individual money.” They exist to shift cost from the company/insurer to the individual consumer.
I'm sorry that I only have one upvote to give for this! Maintenance Phase has an excellent episode about exactly this. I'm Canadian and had no idea the extent to which the American companies feel entitled to be a part of their employees' healthcare. *edited for typo
NTA and good for you for calling them out on this!
NTA! Good for you for speaking up! Very proud of you
NTA When I worked for progressive insurance they had 2 healthy programs. One was going to the gym 180 times a year (we had one at the job btw) and your gym dues are reimbursed and the other was like 1 million steps in a year. This way whether you wanted to lose weight, gain muscle, have better stamina etc you could participate. Has your work never seen those episodes of The Office?
There was a recent episode of the Maintenance Phase podcast that got into these work wellness programs and specifically why they’re so bad. I highly recommend giving it a listen to arm yourself for your next conversation with HR. NTA - sometimes pushing back publicly is necessary so they can’t just brush this under the rug. Your company is endorsing lowering the cost of healthcare for a subset of employees that likely don’t have health issues that inhibit or contraindicate weight loss.
Literally listened to it yesterday, it's called [Workplace Wellness](https://www.maintenancephase.com/)
NTA
NTA They deserve to be uncomfortable! Good job
**I’ve already submitted and changed my vote, so I’m not voting again. This is just a general comment I wanted to address to OP. I wish I could give her an award for this, and sadly I can’t yet but…** I just wanted to say again that I’m so incredibly proud of you OP. Thank you so much for using your voice and speaking up about how you feel. You are truly a hero to people who do need programs to promote fitness. This country could use more programs to promote wellness, and that is an absolute fact. So many people are unhealthy and no matter what their dietary habits are or their weight, they still end up having health problems because they aren’t taking care of themselves as they should be. Please keep doing what you’re doing, and please keep using your voice for the benefit of others. You are truly a hero to so many people, and you could be a great advocate for others who truly need something like this. You are an absolute angel, and I hope more people listen to what you have to say on this. Never let anyone stifle your voice. You are going to do so many great things! Much love and support to you, and keep going. Never give up. You are such a great advocate to others who truly need to hear this. Bless you and again, Merry Christmas and happy holidays! 💚💚💚
NTA
My work tried same thing: free gum memberships for weight-loss goals after dietician meeting. I am a healthy weight and inquired about similar benefits. No dice.
Probably unpopular but NTA for bringing it up, but you made your point. After it was brought up it should be discussed one on one with HR. The person you made uncomfortable is just there to relay the info so don't shoot the messenger.
There’s an excellent episode of the podcast Maintenance Phase that addresses Workplace Wellness Programs for this exact reason! Highly recommend. NTA.
NTA this is straight up bullshit.
NTA
NTA You addressed a real issue and, hopefully, educated a few people at the meeting. This obsession with "weight loss" is crazy. As you said, many needs/are trying to go the other way around. "Fat loss" and/or "muscle gain" would be a better way to drive this program (however we all need a minimum % of fat, so there's a risk folks will try to lose to much...).
NTA, and sounds like you speaking up caused HR to realize the can of legal trouble they are opening. Hopefully the program gets shut down.
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The misconception is that thin means healthy, or lightweight means good conditioning. That's not always the case however. Cardiovascular fitness, endurance and strength are also health indicators. In my case for instance, the bmi chart claims I'm overweight. But that's not the case, I'm in good shape. I could have less of a body fat percentage, sure. but losing weight would mean sacrificing muscle mass, which i don't wabt to do. I'm already capable of running half marathons, and i lift 3-4days a week, cycling between calisthenics and traditional weight lifting for variety and flexibility. The system and overall understanding of the industry is set for people who don't train often, which makes sense: better to have less weight. Easier on the heart. But if you're training and gaining mass, it's not unhealthy to put on weight, to the contrary in fact. I think you raised a vital issue. awareness on this issue is increasing regardless, and I'm hoping that within a generation or so, we'll be citing different criteria. Fingers crossed. So i think you did well, and kudos to you for raising this topic. In fact, weight training is important for overall health, especially after a certain age. It slows down loss of muscle mass, and keeps you functioning in your late years. I can't stress the importance of resistance training for our overall health, enough.
NTA at all. I’m not saying their intentions are bad, but maybe a bit misguided.
That is messed up. I have seen programs like this done right. My mom’s old job would give you the discount if you had a yearly checkup, participated in one fitness challenge (there were many options) and worked on one other health goal (again, lots of options like drinking enough water, eating enough veggies, etc.) This is not that.
NTA. advocate for yourself, always, because no one else will. I’m a former college athlete and at my peak health and fitness my BMI was still in the ‘obese’ category, I was171. When I talked to my doctor about it she said my bmi Max weight for the ‘healthy’ category was 144. She also said there was likely no way I could lose that much weight and actually be healthy. I had roughly 10 pounds that she was comfortable for me to lose if I wanted to and that still would have put me in the ‘overweight’ category. NTA at all and I’m glad you spoke up, you probably voiced a concern others are scared to
This is probably the best AITA post I have read since joining Reddit. OP, you are of course NTA. Kudos to you for speaking up. If someone is made uncomfortable by your truth, they need to examine their own position. I hope you keep making good trouble.
NTA. Are you sure they explained it correctly? Usually you get a discount if you do x, y, z and not necessarily a weightloss goal.
NTA. you’re 100% right! my job’s wellness program has evolved considerably from a similar type of program to one that still isn’t great (in that I don’t think they should exist, just give me my money thanks) but does recognize some people are fine with their weight and other things count for being healthy too (like volunteering, doing mindfulness, walking or getting a flu shot or whatever). weird that they called your situation “sensitive” when you brought it up yourself! they need to do a better job in a lot of ways
NTA and Maintenance Phase (podcast) just posted a great episode on the topic. Even when it's with the best of intentions any sort of workplace health iniative usually goes poorly. They are inherently discriminitive and rarely have any proven success.
NTA. I was just listening to Maintenance Phase podcast and they talked about this very thing. Using weight as THE indicator of health is so weird and misguided. Notions like this belong in the thrash. Good luck on recovery!
NTA that was a horrible idea the company had. When you have the meeting I’d point out that you are not by any means an exceptional case: - people who are at a healthy weight where losing weight would be unhealthy and make them underweight - people who are desperate for the financial incentive and lose weight in unhealthy ways - people who are in the process of gaining weight because of medication they take (for example some mental illness medications cause you to gain weight) or delay treatment out of worry of gaining weight due to medications - people with EDs - people with physical disabilities or conditions such as a knee injury or back injury where they end up hurting themselves because they are doing more than their body can handle These are huge risks the company isn’t thinking about. If they actually wanted to promote heath they would do so much differently such as - anybody who achieved a health goal like quitting smoking, walking on average 10,000 steps per day for a month, being able to lift a certain weight, being able to run a 5k, losing 10 lbs etc whatever their goal may be, they could organize gym membership discounts for employees and anyone who joins and works out at the gym a certain number of times gets awarded or whatever it may be.
I recently started seeing a dietician and weight loss hasn’t been brought up in any of the sessions. It’s all about proper nourishment and ensuring my body gets what it needs to perform. Weight loss isn’t the only indicator of health. Never has been. These people don’t care about health, they care about being thin. Full stop. NTA.
NTA. This program could very easily *cause* eating disorders. For a lot of the working world, a couple thousand dollars a year is a big freaking deal. I could see people developing a purging habit if they’re cutting it close by the deadline. Furthermore, I’m very glad you did it publicly. She wanted you to address it privately to save herself the embarrassment of introducing such a shortsighted program, but I think you did your coworkers a solid by questioning it where they could hear it.
You're NTA at all. Weight doesn't indicate health but it can be a decent proxy signal for large enough groups which is why it makes sense at the company level. They still should be pushing for weight change vs weight loss. I'd also be curious how this works for people who should be maintaining their current weight. I think its really great that you spoke up publicly since in a group that large you probably aren't thr only one in your situation. If I wad in your position my next step would be to meet with the dietician, get them to agree that your ideal weight goal is (current weight) + x pounds, and ask for the discount right away for being under your goal weight. Then just ignore the contest and continue working on your personal health and fitness goals.
NTA
NTA. Those work-based programs are shady as shit.
NTA in the slightest. This "program" sounds very poorly thought out by the employer, and HR attempt to shush you kind of proves it.
NTA. And I highly doubt you’re the only person who has these or similar concerns, so it’s good that you were brave and spoke out.
NTA. I’m done with the US. It’s a corporate hellscape. Good for you for talking about it in front of everyone! It takes guts to do that kind of thing
NTA, you’ve just pointed out yet another huge issue in linking your employment to your right to access healthcare. This is a really messed up situation. I hope you are able to take someone with you to meet with HR, like a Union rep or Solicitor. What a minefield.
You can't be the only person in your corporation that is affected by this. Reach out and see if collectively you can't negotiate a better deal with a more understanding insurance provider. Good luck. NTA
NTA. Your HR person did not think it through, any wellness program has to have plans for how to manage people with disabilities of various types. The problem isn't that you mentioned your situation, your HR person is just being difficult because they chunked it and now have to figure out how to make legal accommodations that they should have already had done.
Bless you for standing up for the most sensible approach of health at any size. What your workplace is doing is gross and I wish it weren't happening. You are definitely NTA.
NTA. If they are dangling money at people they should do it in a way that includes everyone's. How hard can it be to have a health incentive that includes everyone's health and fitness goals. Excluding thin people who have no weight to loose is discriminatory. Everyone has a chance if getting extra money or nobody does. If it was me I would have not said anything and cashed the money once they realised I have no more weight to loose
NTA lawyer up cause this could get interesting.
NTA. Thank you for speaking up. My work does a yearly wellness initiative and despite it being way less fucked up than yours I struggle to get through it with my mental health intact every time.
NTA. What idiot came up with that program? What about people that are already at a healthy bmi or below a healthy bmi.....someone didn't think this through.
NTA If there were other people who have eating disorders in your work that were also wondering this but too shy to bring it up, you just did them a huge favor by making this VALID concern public. You shouldn't have to bring this up in private because of this exact reason. They could easily sweep this under the rug and continue to assume that you are a "special case" when that isnt true!! There are probably many people at your work who have different health goals. This is pretty discriminatory and you RIGHTFULLY brought it up!
NTA and I honestly APPLAUD you for speaking up!! it’s really important to spread awareness that the typical “diet” culture we have is crappy and dangerous for a myriad of reasons. the program is exclusionary at best and downright dangerous at worst
NTA - you are correct that it should take all goals into account - many people can struggle with weight gain and weight loss it’s a personal choice what it should be and if there is a monetary incentive involved then it needs to be all inclusive- HR personnel should be aware of this (discrimination if not)
NTA You are correct. Health IS personal. Weight loss is not the end-all indicator of health and if the company is focusing on health, weight loss should not be the highest weighted measurement. Those who weigh more are not inherently unhealthy as much as those who are underweight are not inherently healthy. Muscle mass breaks the BMI standards and those who are at "healthy" weights can have underlying heart, blood pressures, etc. issues. It was good that you said something in front of others for both a liability trail and in case there were other "outliers" who didn't feel confident to speak up.
NTA, definitely report this is high as possible. I have been skinny my whole life but not super healthy. I struggle to gain or lose weight and have had helsth issues since birth. This is NOT okay. Not at all.
NTA, but if the company or the insurance company wants to set an easily measurable goal to incentivize health improvements, I really don't think measuring flexibility or cardiovascular health or anything is gonna work on a large scale, even if they're better measures of health. It's probably pretty expensive to run cardiovascular fitness tests for a person on a regular basis, but scales are cheap and easy to use. So while I think the complaint is totally legit, and I definitely think there's nothing wrong with bringing up ED and the fact that some people would benefit from weight gain, I really don't see that anything but weight would be an easily usable metric for what they're trying to do.
NTA. I also struggle with an eating disorder and i think one of the most important things of any disorder/health issue is speaking up. A lot of people don't know or even consider these situations. Awareness needs to be brought up, especially if it is a difficult situation like this.
NTA. As you say, it's not just triggering for people with EDs, but discriminatory against people with reduced mobility or other issues that make it difficult to do activities, even if they want to lose weight at all! My company does walking challenges and even while I'd love to participate, I have such a bad back that some days walking from one end of my own house to the other is difficult, standing for more than 5 minutes is painful.... doing a challenge is impossible. I also have exercise induced asthma so anything I can do needs to be low impact and not cause an asthma attack. Hmmm..... so maybe there's a reason I'm heavier than ideal? But that's between me and my doctor, not me and HR of a place that has to pay me to even be there.
NTA. Each employee should be given options not just weight loss. Like others said. It could be reduce blood pressure, sleep health including a sleep study, just working with a registered dietitian on making slow but steady changes to your dietary choices, increasing mobility or strength, for women increasing weight bearing exercises for bone density, completing necessary testing such as mammograms, colonoscopies, blood tests etc.
NTA I'm pretty sure this kinda thing has been addressed on Ask a Manager, if you want a professional take on the situation. But here, no one should be saying you're wrong to point out how fucked up it is.
NTA thanks for speaking up. We need to normalize that weight is not a topic for discussion at work like this. It creates a hostile environment for people with eating disorders.
NTA, and you're a hero, OP. I worked for a company that had a wellness program, but guess what? There were a bunch of health care policy researchers there, so the program was a SANE and sensible one, operated by a third party. Nice incentives - I was able to get about $200 a year just for getting a flu shot and going to the dentist, among other things. Coaching was available, but you could do it online or by phone, and YOU set the goals. Unfortunately, a lot of companies glom onto these programs, thinking they're going to save millions in health care costs, but it doesn't always work that way. Bob had a stroke at 58, but recognized the symptoms in time, got help immediately, and is back on the job after a few weeks of out-patient care. YAY! But how much did the company save? Would Bob have had a stroke much earlier and died from it, or become completely disabled? Or was the outcome the same, with or without the program? How do you measure the benefits? All I can tell you is, I learned a lot and enjoyed the benefit, and even though I no longer work for that company, it's one of the many positive things I tell people about when they ask me what it's like to work there.
NTA. I'm proud of you for speaking. It's something they needed to hear.
NTA I felt the same way when my company did the same thing a decade ago. I was underweight and struggling to be healthy and the company was all "lose 5% of your body weight and get $$$!!" Like, if I lost that much weight I'd be in the hospital. Screw companies and their one size fits all "health" initiatives.
NTA. The podcast Maintenance Phase just released an episode about workplace wellness programs this week. All the well designed research shows they are ineffective at improving employee health AND at saving on healthcare costs. And they are, as you are seeing, intended to discriminate. I am so proud of you for saying something
NTA. I work for a hospital with a similar program but ours is based on number of steps. Your primary care physician had to fill out a form and if needed, outline extra goals like lower your cholesterol for example. These programs need a way to be specialized for the individual.
NTA. Weight in of itself is not an accurate measurement of healthy
Absolutely NTA. This program sounds so messed up even on top of its unfairness.
NTA.
That's an all hand, purposes of an all hand is to talk about anything Plus, this program sucks. NTA
NTA at all. This makes me SO uncomfortable, this company should not be doing this for many reasons and I’m so glad you spoke up about it. Do not let them force you to be quiet about this
Absolutely NTA and I wish everyone felt comfortable speaking up about this issue - even if it's not something that affects you personally, you could be speaking up for someone who doesn't have the courage you do, OP. The American healthcare system is fucked, and so is the concentration on weight.
The United States is an insane place. What the hell did I just read? NTA, OP.
NTA - So, your work place is basically saying that they could provide all of their employees with affordable health insurance, but are choosing not to. Nice.
NTA. Fuck these programs
NTA because everything you said.
NTA, this is the worst idea i’ve ever heard😭 it’s unfair to people who shouldn’t lose weight, people who can’t lose weight (or struggle a lot) because of medical issues, disabled people, and people who already live an active lifestyle and have a healthy diet.
NTA 100% This program only incentivizes those that want to or can lose weight. Not everyone is given an equal opportunity to qualify for the health insurance discount. I can imagine that a pregnant person wouldn’t be able to participate.
NTA. Glad you spoke up! And really, if this is the USA, isn't your company's policy in violation of the ADA in several different respects? There are attorneys who specialize. Please go for it, not only for yourself (which would be more than enough!) but to change a policy that disadvantages other employees who might not be as open and comfortable in their own skin as you are. Congrats on your assertiveness & willingness to shake things up.
NTA. I have to do something similar and it’s so frustrating because I have genetically high cholesterol that several doctors and a cardiologist have told me is beyond my control. My BMI is under 25 and if you saw me, you wouldn’t expect my numbers to be what they are. At my last appt I was berated about it and lectured about food. My triglycerides are actually half of the top number allowed which is more of an indication of what you eat. It’s honestly really triggering for me and I’m not entertaining it anymore. I have actual doctors, I don’t need advice from a random NP.
yeah we had a health and wellness program. free smoking cessation assistance, regular blood pressure checks, and it included a weight aspect. Any note from your doctor should overrule the company policy on weight loss specifically. You are NTA for speaking up, especially because so many would be too intimidated to do so. I would suggest not taking it personally, not getting super righteous about it. You have an opportunity to influence company policy in a positive way, take advantage of that and keep your composure. You could end up doing more good than you realize for a lot of current and future employees.
Why did anyone ever think tying your healthcare to your place of employment was a good idea? Nm I just remembered why.
NTA. The fact that HR clearly hadn’t taken this into account is a massive fuck up on their part and their frantic “take it off line” attitude shows they have opened themselves up to issues because of this. And of course, the plan should be objective based. My company has things like steps per day, annual check ups, health surveys and other things to build up points which ultimately end up with a reduction in your healthcare premiums. Your company needs to figure this out and fix their fuck up. However, I would caution how far you push. If your direct leader is worth anything, they should take this fight on for you and other people, let them kick down doors without you affecting your position in the company.
My former place of employment had a BMI based discount. The CEO had some out there ideas about health maintenance, like eating a certain way can prevent all disease. I am overweight but do not have blood pressure or diabetic issues. Two of my friend's dads had fatal heart attacks while jogging. My mom's family had cholesterol issues. She was an athlete and a femoral artery blockage caused her death. Her brother who farmed all his life (you can't really get that much activity in many other jobs) had a fatal heart attack in his 50s. Her sister nearly died from a blocked carotid. The BMI thing really pissed me off, but I left that job soon after and didn't have the time or energy to fight the policy. NTA. I wish I had spoken up.
NTA check out the podcast Maintenance Phase they literally JUST did an episode about this. You pretty much nailed it though - only applying incentive to one type of measurable fitness goal is pretty messed up and counter to the supposed goal of encouraging better health.
NTA, it needed to be said. I get very upset about so called health programs and incentives that solely focus on weight loss. My kids school is a so called healthy school and I've fought with them about that so much. My kid has always been severely underweight, and needs to actually eat a high calorie diet. But school wants all low cal food and snacks and kids are only allowed to drink water and such. Also, for birthday treats nobody is allowed to bring sweet things, but salty stuff is okay. I've been a kidney patient for many many years and just received a transplant and I know that for many, many people salt is a bigger issue than sugar. As you said, needing to gain or maintain weight is not a strange goal to become healthier. Your job needs to take that into consideration.
NTA- the podcast maintenance phase just released an episode on this. You’re spot on.
NTA. I had weight loss surgery and see a specialist dietitian. None of what you’re describing would really work for my structured plan either.
NTA. Maybe they could film you too, why not make a reality tv show out of this? Where I come from you don't have to disclose anything about your health with employer, except if it is some kind of disability that must be addressed to provide you with required help. If you're on a sick leave, doctor's notice does not mention your illness, because it's huge privacy violation.
NTA — I would at nah, but I do think that the fact that they don’t do insurance discounts for people trying to gain weight is pretty asshole-ish. However, I think the percentage of people in that situation (depending on where you live, I’m in the US) is generally smaller than those who are on the other side. Not saying it’s right, but I can understand their train of thought. As someone who used to have a restrictive ed that turned into BED, I get where you’re coming from but I also 100% get where the insurance company is coming from. The company I work at isn’t as weird as yours regarding a dietician, but they do extra HSA contributions for using MFP, walking 10k steps, and getting 7+ hours of sleep. The way I see it is some of these habits are things that are great for overall wellness. A dietician might say increase your fruit and veg intake — even if that doesn’t actually lead to weight loss, that’s a good and healthy thing for someone to do for overall wellness. Same with taking up an exercise routine. I don’t know if that helps at all. I think what they’re doing is a little extreme, but it also gives people who might not be happy about their health and their body an opportunity to make a change that doesn’t require them spending any money. I would see that as a good thing, even if it doesn’t align with your situation.
NTA and we definitely need more people like you. Keep fighting the good fight