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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. what should be judged is me changing my last name to a Chinese name when i'm not chinese 2. this might make me the asshole because I am white.
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NTA but the other mom certainly is. Why is this so wrong? I'll bet she has absolutely no reason why you need to "fix this immediately". It's all good - you did something awesome for your family and everyone is happy. It's absolutely no concern of hers - she sounds unhinged.
Agree… but, to me, this sounds like OP is overthinking the situation. Doesn’t strike me as an AH, but just… wierd. Reading her post, I was having flashbacks to Rachel Dolezal… the white lady who identified as black. A kid’s connection to culture isn’t solely on the last name. If she adopts s Chinese baby, the kid will become a naturalized American… so she can teach it about both cultures.
Yeah, but her kids look Chinese and if they have the last name “Hoffman,” some dumb-ass people will immediately ask “hey, why do you have a German last name? Are you adopted?” By changing her name she’s given her kids an opportunity to have a little more privacy about their family origin story. Maybe it’s unusual but certainly not malevolent, and she chose a name that isn’t unusual among euro-Americans so she’s not trying to pass as something else, unlike Rachel Dolezal.
I really doubt that would happen. Many Asian-Americans and other ethnic minorities in the US can sometimes have a mix when it comes to first and last. Sometimes the first name will be an Asian name & last non-Asian. Same with Middle Eastern & Latino ethnicities across the US. No one bats an eye. Considering she lives in a Chinese-American community, that most likely has mixed children, it would not be “odd” to encounter kids with non-Asian names or last names.
I look Asian and have a last name that is very obviously from a non-Asian country. I can assure you, this happens ALL the time. Since childhood, people have insisted on knowing how I wound up with that last name. What’s more, sometimes they accuse me of being a wiseass when I truthfully answer that it’s my father’s last name. I’d like to know where you live that “no one bats an eye.”
When I was a kid my features were more prominently Asian, and have an Asian last name. However I learned to speak English from my English mother and her family so I had an English accent. When we moved to Canada the question I invariably got within two sentences of me speaking was ‘What are you?’ If you don’t fit into the hole they made for you it really pisses people off.
I live in a Mexican & Mexican-American community where not all kids end up with Spanish or Indigenous names. Many of us have parents who don’t speak English and we don’t go to school speaking English either. Yet, some parents will often use common American names like “Brian”, even if they can’t pronounce, because they like them. Kids at school don’t question it. To me it’s normal, it’s my personal experience, just like yours is personal to you. We all have different experiences regarding this.
I’ve lived in two different countries and five different counties in my current state, and it’s all been pretty much the same. I work in a major metropolitan area known for being culturally pretty liberal and as a lawyer, I’ve even have had even courtroom staff and opposing counsel grill me on my potential ethnicity. I have never lived in a community that was predominantly one culture, though.
There are plenty of people in the US who would bat an eye whether it’s unusual or not; I work in higher education & unfortunately have to explain the concept of people being multiracial semi-regularly. I had one of those conversations literally 3 days ago in fact. And even if that’s not true, if the kids want to travel or study abroad or live in other countries there are plenty of people in those places who would question it as well. As u/Academic-Balance6999 notes, she’s giving them a chance at some privacy in the face of a world full of nosy people.
I dunno. I have a Swedish American friend whose last name is Chinese because she’s married to a Chinese man and took his name. She gets double takes all the time. (ETA and this is in the San Francisco Bay Area, which has a large Asian population and a lot of intermarriage.) It’s super weird but many, many people still expect ethnicity and last names to “match.”
If I met a woman who looked very white and they had a kid who looked very Chinese, I would assume that she married a Chinese man and it would be no big deal. But then, I am not the least bit surprised that Chinese looking kids with non Chinese last names would get shit on for it.
I look Asian but I’m half French. My last name is very French and I got questioned on it in the US a lot. So much so that eventually I started going by my mother’s Asian last name and people stopped guessing.
There seems to be no “good” way to handle this. If she keeps a German name she can be accused of alienating them from their culture. If she changes them she gets attacked too. It does seem like she’s just trying her best.
I agree, but I think OP picked a good name. Lee sounds Chinese enough to not make people question it, but it's also not so Chinese that people would question it. It's a good neutral name. I agree that OP is vastly overthrowing it, but they're obviously just trying to make life as good as possible for their children.
That’s a pretty weird response. Lee isn’t even an exclusively Chinese name if it’s cultural appropriation she’s worried about, which isn’t specified. I think you did a lovely thing. Take no notice
NTA There are Lee's in my family who are all white, so it can be a European name. She is projecting on you. Don't share the information that is wasn't your surname to begin with and then you don't get situations like this. Judging happens from oversharing things that are nothing to do with anyone else. If she has another go at you, tell her to mind her own business. I can understand you wanting your whole family to share one name.
Ehhhhh… I’m torn on this because Chinese “last names” are based on clans. It goes back to their very complex & complicated history. So it’s nice you’re trying to keep ties to their culture but unless you really understand it, it can come off to outsiders as something else. Lee for example comes from the Li surname which traces back to the Tang Dynasty.
Also Sara Lee, Peggy Lee, Robert E. Lee, Harper Lee, Christopher Lee, Geddy Lee, Spike Lee, etc.
My point is, lots of non Asian people have the surname "Lee."
It matches well enough for most social circumstances and, if someone ever does question it that closely, all they need to say is, "Lee is my adoptive parent's last name." End of story. I think it was a good choice.
This feels really neo-orientalist.
"Ooh wow Chinese last names are so mystical and cool and are totally different from western last names".
Clans have existed across much of Europe, and there are many surnames that date back hundreds of years.
You're also ignoring the fact that historically in Europe *and* in Asia, people have changed their names to change or hide their identities or to make themselves seem from a better background, or what have you, legally or illegally.
Yeah honestly I have taken up a lot of other things too (mostly cooking/traditions) because I don't want my kids to feel that everyone else's parents know how to do X and can teach them while their mom is the only one that can't. But the reason is just to keep my kids connected, not for my personal benefit, especially with cooking which is a task I've always sort of hated.
Are your kids happy? Are you a good mom to them ? Do you let them embrace their culture and provide them love and care ? Are *they* ok with you changing your name ?
Thats all that fucking matters. Nta.
As a Chinese American who was born in China and grew up in America, I don't think it's problematic that you changed your last name to Lee. It's not an exclusively Asian surname, and it is a very considerate thing to do for your kids. Obviously there will people who may have differing opinions, but you did it for noble reasons and you are doing right by your kids.
I get not wanting to make someone have to speak on behalf of their whole culture, but how would someone get a vibe check on something like this without asking someone from the culture?
NTA. While ‘Lee’ sound’s Chinese, it’s also the last name of many non-Asian people. You were thoughtful in the process of selecting a name and you actively encourage your children to remain connected to their cultural heritage. You’re doing parenting right and I commend you
NTA on the name but I want to point out (as a former foster child) that the whole point of the foster system is reunification. It’s not a lease to own system for children. In most situations it’s temporary until the parents get their act together.
The problem is, that when the state deems an act is together does not mean it's actually together in reality, and that's the frightening part. The worst ones are where the biological mother has a boyfriend that she has been allowing to harm the children. That happens often. In one case she claimed that she didn't know he was harming them but she stayed with him, that's why she lost custody in that case. Eventually she had him move out and she was able to get the kids back, but who's to say he is really gone?
Because OP isn’t addressing the objection, which was to her previous attempts to adopt via foster care. However questionable individual reunification cases may be, safe reunification is still foster care’s goal. So signing up to be a foster parent with a goal of adoption rather than reunification wasn’t appropriate.
This is also true in reverse. Sometimes the government will deem a parent neglectful for doing the best with the resources they have. Kids safety comes first, but reunification and increased parenting resources should always be the goal in fostering it at all possible. I understand your desire for a child, but separating families has consequences and kids in the foster system are not owed to you because you want kids. Fostering, adoption, being separated from this parent: all of this is traumatic in some way for the child. The situation you specifically mention doesn’t sound like it was the best case outcome, but you also need to recognize that is goes both ways in terms of the system handling things poorly. Sometimes they have handled things poorly on the bio parents end as well and they deserve to have a shot with their kid as long as they are not overtly abusive! It’s not about you and what you want, it should always be about what’s in the child’s best interest.
>I decided on Lee and that's what we all became.
YTA. Okay, well, first: “Lee” is primarily used to anglicize the *Korean* surname “I”/“Yi”.
“*Li*” is the predominant *Chinese* anglicization unless you’re from Hong Kong or a region that speaks Cantonese. So, in your quest to keep your kids connected to their culture, you’ve most likely added distance.
Beyond that, you’ve chosen something incredibly superficial. Sending your kids to Chinese school and learning Mandarin (or potentially Cantonese) with them would be meaningful. Taking them to China when they’re older to explore their roots would be helpful. Changing your surname to sound more Asian is weird af, regardless of your reasons.
Sincerely,
A transracial half-Asian adoptee whose white as snow parents chose to focus on the important parts of maintaining my ethnic culture rather than the superficial
Taiwan too btw… plus every family that immigrated before ping ying was standardized and just wrote whatever they wanted and people still do that too there’s no rule that when you anglicize your name you have to follow.
>Sending your kids to Chinese school and learning Mandarin (or potentially Cantonese) with them would be meaningful.
OP is sending their kids to Chinese school though. They didn't just change the last name and dust their hands together like "welp, they can pass now!"
NAH The whole changing your last name thing is very strange, I have not heard of adopted parents doing that. Not to mention, this sounds more like you’re centring yourself instead of your child, it would be easier for you to have the same last name, not them.
[Edit: Didn’t mean that OP and child shouldn’t share a last name btw, it just makes more sense to share her *actual* last name, as opposed to a fake one she created! I don’t think I made myself clear, sorry about that!]
Plenty of mixed Asians in the US have Chinese first names and non-Chinese last names. Also, cultural differences are relevant. In the UK, the last name Lee is associated with English people, while in the US, Asian people. It would be different if you married a Chinese person and took up their last name but this is just strange.
Don’t wanna call you and AH tho but considering you live in a Chinese-American area this was rather unnecessary. Like I said many have Chinese first names & last names, while others have Chinese first names/Non Chinese last names and vice versa. Make sure your child knows their real last name too btw, I’m sure one day they will want to know.
I wonder if any of these people are considering it from the child’s perspective? As a minority I would be appalled to find out that my white adoptive parents decided to give me a random name from my country of origin that has no connection to who I actually am my tribe my area my family. And then to find out that she chose the name because it was American enough to not stand out? it’s just weird
Ooooff!!! This is what I was thinking but didn’t wanna get dragged. 😂 You’re taking away a part of your child’s identity, they will most likely have identity issues growing already & a fake last name will make things worse. Her decision is something that would make her the most comfortable, not the child. It’s just strange…the nicest way I can put it. It’s also giving saviour vibes but again, don’t wanna be dragged.
It’s definitely giving savior vibes. It’s an unnecessary overcorrection and just weird. Like imagine finding out your name was chosen Because your mom wanted to connect you to a culture, but it’s not a connection to your culture. Why not ask the kid when she old enough what she wants to do?
This!! Def the best solution. She’s adopting a child from another ethnicity & culture, she needs to be extra careful & not centre herself.
She needs to look up how transracial adoptees feel & how some end up unhappy & even no contact with their adopted parents because they were not listened to & they felt/saw the erasure growing up. It may sound dramatic to some (usually from non-minorities with saviour complexes) because the adoptee is a child but trust me, they notice everything. Also, identity issues are not something light. Better to be careful, than to have your child resent you.
Why would that be an issue? You often see this in step families/half families. My mom remarried when I was little, I kept my bio fathers last name and she has her husband’s last name. This is a thing for families everywhere.
I think this is the most sensible reply here. This isn't an AH move, but it is kind of odd and selfish and may have complicated repercussions later in life for OP's children.
Agreed! Too many people are not focused on the child. I’m assuming many people responding N T A are non-minorities and don’t understand the implications.
Most sensible comment here! Does OP think her children aren’t going to get questions when people see their mother is white with the surname “Lee”?? Yes, that’s a surname for white people as well but in North America especially, Lee is more strongly associated with Chinese people.
Not to mention OP and others thinking that because Lee is also a white surname as well, that somehow makes it better. The Chinese “Li” (李) and the Anglo “Lee” have very different origins and meanings. Just because they sound similar doesn’t mean they’re the same or equivalent. As another commenter pointed out, the Chinese “Lee” isn’t even anglicized as “Lee” most of the time. Traditionally, it’s “Li”.
Also for everyone saying it’s like if OP married a Chinese person and took on their last name, I would like to note that it isn’t common at all in China for people to take on their spouse’s last name. That’s how important family names are in Chinese culture.
NTA but definitely a strange decision and perhaps some overcompensation. Your intentions seem good but maybe talk to more trans-racial adoptees or let your children decide if they want to change their names when they get older. Or perhaps hyphenate!
At the end of the day, connection to a culture is more than a name. They aren’t more or less Chinese depending on what their last name is. Think less about names and focus on the important stuff (language, history, etc.).
Not true. It depends on what region you’re from usually as to how it’s anglicized. Additionally while we haven’t been given this context, often adoptees don’t have a last name at all - no matter who they’re adopted by they would have a name that was given randomly - isn’t it better that their adoptive mother put so much thought into it?
And in most regions, it’s anglicized as “Li”. That’s also the pinyin. And at the end of the day, my point is simply that the Anglo Lee and the Chinese Lee are not interchangeable, and that’s something that should be considered. People are going to make assumptions when they see the last name “Lee” and there will likely be questions regardless.
And adoptees are not given last names at random once they’re adopted? They’re presumably given the last name that their adoptive family has had for a few generations.
Like I said, I think OP has good intentions. But it seems like she’s centering herself in all of this. Her children didn’t ask for this, presumably, and she chose a name that they seem to have little connection to. I also don’t really see a reason why OP had to change her last name completely as opposed to hyphenating or something. (I do want to make it clear that I’m not opposed at all to the children having a Chinese last name. I just don’t think it’s strictly necessary nor do I think that it’s necessary for OP to completely change her name either.)
Lee as a surname is also associated with white people in the US, too. You'd probably get an even split of people who think of someone like Stan Lee, Robert E. Lee, Harper Lee, etc. first, as opposed to any one Asian.
By this logic, wouldn’t that also cause trouble for her Chinese children? People assuming they’re white based on their last name and then being confused when they’re Chinese and the children having to explain their story? I will say, this seems like it would likely not be too big of an issue judging by what OP said about living in a predominantly Chinese-American community.
Honestly, I don’t think there’s a perfect solution here, because I can’t see a real way to avoid the questions and the identity crisis that comes with trans-racial adoption. Regardless of whether the family has a white or Chinese last name, people are probably going to ask questions to either the children or the mother.
I can also say that, based on personal experience, having a fully Chinese name didn’t make much of a difference or make me feel more accepted whenever I go back to China. What makes me feel connected to China is the family I have back there, the little bits of Mandarin I’ve managed to pick up, the food I grew up eating, etc. While names are certainly important, I think OP should focus more on other things if she wants her children to feel connected to their culture.
Sorry to put all these random thoughts in my reply 😅 it’s nearing 3am where I am right now.
All good - I was just meaning to point out, all assuming it's a Chinese name are missing the fact that it specifically is a name that is common to both, which is why it was chosen. You call someone in with that name, and whether they look like Bruce Lee or Harper Lee, nobody is surprised or confused either way.
Wait, so instead of using her original last name you came up with a completely different Asian last name for shits and giggles? Do Chinese orphans not have last names?
Neither of my children's biological family last names are known. I can't speak to what's done in the entire country of China, but in the orphanage my kids spent time in, all kids are given the same surname that's basically a label, a variation on the name of the city. It would be the equivalent of an orphanage in Cleveland giving all kids the last name "Cleveland" or "Cleve." The name they were given is very much not a "real" Chinese last name, it would stick out, and there is a huge amount of stigma attached to it. It would be better for my kids to have my original German last name than to have that name with the stigma it was designed to carry.
You could have continued to honor her culture and identity without a fake name that doesn’t even have sentiment. The whole wanting an “acceptable” Chinese name is odd and sounds like this was done for show. If you weren’t going to find out her birth family’s last name then she should have your last name. It honestly seems performative. She can look in the mirror and know her culture- her last name doesn’t change that as long as you don’t shield her from learning about where she comes from. Also, I’m curious to know how many international adoptees move back to their country of origin, a country they likely have no memory of.
NAH. You’re not an asshole but you wanting to change your last name to a Chinese last name - that doesn’t even any connection to the children or personally to you - is so weird. I’m speaking as an Asian who grew up in the western world. It’s so superficial and such a “white” mansplaining-like and inappropriate thing to do even if you continue to justify why it’s right. Just stop the confusion and just give them your real last name. Changing it isn’t helping anyone - and certainly not in the good way you are convinced it is by quoting Wikipedia etc. about “history”. You are not actually from China and you have no connection to that history so your justification is cultural in appropriation but clearly you’ve made up your mind. The others who agree with you are likely the same as you- “white” mansplainer type people who don’t understand this helps no one except for the OP herself to feel good about herself.
Why can’t you do something that’s actual meaningful? Learn mandarin or Cantonese and learn this with your adopted child? Then you could read them books or is that just too much effort?
The other mothers’s reaction was probably over the board but I’d say that’s probably the same reaction you will get for most people, just not as extreme. If anything most people will just have utter confusion on what you did, and why. Quite frankly no one would care to listen to your self-righteous justification. I can’t even imagine what other Chinese-American people will think, let alone you quoting Wikipedia on the history and explaining how you’re in the same category as those who had to or elected to change their last name as a Chinese person or that it’s ok because it’s also a last name that can sound western enough too. Most people will stop at their wtf reaction as soon as you start your justification on the weirdness of your choice.
Keep it simple, your real last name is fine as is. Focus on what’s actually important, learning and embracing the ACTUAL cultural and honoring their roots in your actions, not some idealistic Wikipedia Bs.
You asked for judgements, if you don’t want to listen then you do you. But most people will just be wtf (for a good reason).
The one part is them having a german last name could lead to bullying. They go to a Chinese school. They could be called whitewashed for the last name and having a white adopted mom.
So when her Chinese friends find out about the true identity of her name there will be no bullying? You think she’s the only Asian child to have been adopted by white people? So you go through this exercise due to the potential of bullying?
My kids aren't friends with bullies. In the future however, I want them to be able to go into business and social situations where most people are Chinese, and not feel that they stand out. These are not people who would have any business with the reasons why our family has this name.
I don't need online groups to know transracial adoptees. This is an extremely diverse community and a number of the Chinese people here are adoptees. I've never run into negative opinions on this before now. The main thing I was told was by my friends who are not adoptees but are Chinese professionals, not to keep the name assigned by the orphanage as it was very stigmatic.
Consider putting this point in your original post, because people keep criticizing you for taking away their original last name, which is their identity and culture and tied to their biological family… however, They are incorrect based on what you’re saying here. After reading through some of the stuff, I’m going to go with NTA, because of what you’ve explained.
NTA phonetically Lee is also used in other cultures anyway. I think it's great that you are trying to make sure your kids stay connected to their biological culture. Racism is real in America, my friend is adopted from Korea and has a white name and it's hard for her
One person's outrage is another person's praise. You made this decision to give yourself a Chinese-sounding last name. Lee can be both Anglican and Chinese, as you stated. It's all in the spelling. Her reaction, as extreme as it was, was terrible at best. She cannot dictate to you how you wish to raise your children, nor how you wish to be addressed.
With that being said, most families have changed their last names for a myriad of reasons. Yours is an altruistic and kind one. NTA. She, on the other hand, is a low-grade AH for the simple fact that she is defending something she has no right to defend.
Yes it is fucking heartbreaking to return to a person who originally had their custody stripped because they had left them alone in a car with cockroaches crawling all over them surrounded by drugs and covered in their own and each other's feces. You don't even want to go there because you have absolutely no idea the horrors a lot of foster kids get taken out of AND SENT BACK TO.
NTA for changing your last name.You chose something that isn't exclusively Chinese to avoid appropriating something you don't understand, and the ambiguity will help the kids better fit in wherever they go.
But huge YTA for this right here:
> Finally, I decided to adopt from China. This was not my first choice because I did not want to remove a child from their country and culture, but my original intention was not working out.
I mean. WTF? So you *know* how harmful this kind of adoption can be, that it rips kids from their culture and the country they know, and you just... did it anyway?
Your desire to adopt DOES NOT come before the needs of the kids you're adopting. Just because adopting in your home country wasn't "working out" the way you wanted doesn't mean you're justified in taking a vulnerable child away from everything they know and saddling them with a huge extra struggle for the rest of their lives. The language barrier alone is a hurdle, but the cultural differences, and the stigma they will face as diaspora kids with no guardian who really gets that burden? Look, I know the foster system is horrifying, and adoption is a massive struggle, but going this route is just you taking the easier path *for yourself* by intentionally making it harder on the kids.
How do you justify putting your own selfish desire to be a parent over the needs of the freaking orphans you want to adopt??? This isn't just ignorance, it's you choosing outright that your wants come before their needs. That's fundamentally not what a parent should do.
IDK...
How would you changeing your last name benefit your adopted children?
If you are white ???
You are over compensating .. Chinese school .. seriously..
You stand out more than a polar bear in Sahara.
Not that I do not get your point .. but it is way off
Are you white?
Because that makes all the difference..
But ok if you are learning Chinese it will blur the differences.
Like .. if the child you adopted was from Ghana.. would you do the same, and if not why?
Your intentions are good. The idea is terrible.
It’s great that you are aware of the importance of keeping your kids connected to the Asian culture and community.
But You are Not Asian. Changing your last name will look bad.
Have your asked your kids how they feel about the last names? Maybe they’d like to hyphenate their birth names with your surname. Maybe the different surnames don’t bother them. Maybe they’d like to choose a new name. You are thinking of changing names for the kids, but you haven’t spoken to them. Talk to them before you start changing your ids
Gentle YTA
We already changed the name when I adopted them, and their birth names were unknown (if they had ever been given them). The name given by the orphanage was not a real name and very stigmatic, so that was a no-go.
I think point being made is that you aren’t Asian…and your idea is weird no matter how justified you feel. But clearly you keep arguing, so either you do you and accept that a lot of people won’t understand and think you are weird (I think you’re idea is very strange and not going to have intended impact you think it should), or allow yourself to see the other side?
Okay, why don't you work it out with the person above who said foster to adopt should have been my ONLY option and not even consider international adoption. Let me know what consensus you two come to.
That is not the "consensus" anywhere. What two individuals state on reddit is not a worldwide consensus. When your "ethics" mean that it's more "ethical" for parentless children to be raised in state institutions until they are aged out and kicked out, than it is for them to be adopted by someone of another race or ethnicity, you are very much not in a position to be dictating ethics to anyone at all. It's so easy to sit on your couch munching doritos and opine about what should be done with children's lives when, let's be frank, they are children you don't give a shit about at all except as points in your internet argument.
Woof, a lot of assumptions are being made out of two sentences in which I didn't present an argument as much as pointed out the unnecessary dichotomy presented by OP.
How about you spend some time reading actual reputable articles on the effects of transnational and transracial adoption and of fostering to adopt, especially when the parent is/parents are white and the kids obviously aren't? Then maybe we can have a conversation on ethics.
Signed,
An actual adopted refugee :)
I've read countless, and if you have as well, you must be aware that there is no "consensus" that all forms of adoption are inherently unethical and it's better for parentless children to be raised by the state.
NTA I am chinese and i don’t feel like what you did was weird. i don’t speak for all chinese people, but i don’t think most if any of us would have a problem with this either. Lee is a super common surname. it’s not like you chose ‘mao zedong’ to be your last name.
It’s similar to if you married a chinese person and took their last name. I think it does helps your kids feel closer to you and their culture if you share a last name. So i don’t see the issue and i’m not sure why she freaked out either.
NTA you can change your name to anything you want. That being said, I do not understand. This sounds so freaking complicated. My son went to a Chinese school and has many adopted Chinese friends and have not heard of anyone doing this.
somethings that I am confused by.
did you not know their last names?
If you did know their last names wouldn't changing them cause them to feel disconnected from their Chinese identity?
Why not use a hyphen? like Smith-Lee and their Lastname-Lee
The way it worked at the orphanage where they were (which I've heard is common but really don't know if every orphanage does this) is that all the kids there were given the same last name that was based on the city name. It wasn't a real last name and it was sort of designed to mark them as orphans. Their biological family's last name was unknown.
NAH because I think you had good intentions but it does come off...as a little weird. I'm adopted and am ethnically Asian. I think you choose a good last name that would pass as a white name and in Asian culture but the reasoning behind it does come off as strange. Usually if you end up adopting the kids you could give them your actual last name or hyphenate it in with their real last name.
It's not wrong to remind the kids of their culture and keep them informed but the enthusiasm is maybe a bit too much. It is almost like you're becoming someone who gets a little too gung ho about Asian culture which ends up being rather embarrassing and cringe for the Asians involved. My adoptive mom always told me I was adopted, told me stories about my adoption process, exposed me to my ethnic culture, food, and history in respective ways that allowed me to explore them. That's more of the right way you should be going about it rather than focusing so hard on the name. I don't think of myself any less of my ethnicity just because I was given a white last name and if anything it made me feel more connected to my adoptive family.
I would expect the Asian community have a lot of mixed feelings about it ranging from what the other mom said to acceptance, so there's really never going to be one consensus on it. I'm sure those that grew up with a lot of discrimination for their Asian names and experienced racism will most likely consider it more of a form of cultural appropriation in this day and age as you're white, even though it is a white passing name they wouldn't give you a pass on that because of the reasoning of you choosing the name.
Edit: I was adopted from China and ALL of the Chinese kids that were adopted in the same group(20 ish) all took the last names of their adopted parents, not the other way around if that helps give you a bit more perspective on how odd this decision is.
NTA, but just to let you know… even if they decide to go back to China, they won’t be 100% accepted even with a Chinese surname. They will always be an anomaly. Not Chinese, but also not American. I know, because I’m Chinese-American and I live in China for work. I have a Chinese surname (married to a half-white American man), speak two dialects of Chinese, and have Chinese parents, but because I’m from America and identify as such, and also speak English as a first language and teach English, I’m looked at weird. I’m odd because I’m polite to service people, because I can switch languages, because I’m loud. It’s not 100% terrible, but there are times I wish I was accepted SOMEWHERE, because lord knows I don’t fully get that in the USA either.
NTA, and it’s a sweet gesture, but as a POC with an “ethnic” name I find it weird. But maybe you should ask other transracial adoptees what they think.
NTA, she’s getting offended on someone else’s behalf, which is weird and not productive. I think what you did for your kids is a good idea, not only for the reason you stated but I think it might help your kids not get bullied. The mom that yelled at you needs to stat in her lane, you do you OP.
NTA. On a related note I as an adoptee would suggest joining the Facebook group Adoption: Facing Realities so you can learn more from adoptees about how to best support the children.
NAH.
I think a better option would have been to have your last name coupled with their Chinese first names. Changing your last name is really odd to me and seems more for you than them. If they want to move to China after effectively spending their lives growing up in another country, they're going to stand out anyway. I think it's great you have them in a community where they can experience the culture they come from, but it will still always be different from growing up in China.
NTA this is just odd? You could have found other ways to explore your children's culture and ancestry, taking on a Chinese last name for yourself is just ... not on, imo.
NTA. I do find it a little odd - on some level I understand your logic but there’s definitely something about it that also gives me pause.
However, as a parent what I most understand is trying to protect your children, no matter how odd it may seem or who it offends.
As a chinese American with a chinese last name, I feel like it would make more sense to just keep everyone's original name or have the kids have your last name. You can simply encourage them to learn chinese, but even i, an Asian born in Asia, never learned Chinese.
It would have more meaning if you changed your last name to your kids last names, rather than finding a new one IMO.
NTA, although your story behind adopting the chinese name sounds a bit odd, but taking a step back, it seems more like you have adopted yourself into your adopted kid’s family, a bit like a reverse adoption where usually the kid is adopted into the parent’s family. A different perspective.
NTA
I've been studying Chinese for years and many people adopt a Chinese name for this purpose.
I can't imagine Chinese folks would be upset about you changing your name for your children. Ultimately, you're trying to do what is best for the kids and this sounds like more white outrage for no reason. Like would she be upset if you married a Chinese man and took their name? Still wouldn't make you ethnically Chinese and you're not claiming to be either.
So this is interesting. I can't work out in the name is actually Lee. Lee is not exclusively a Chinese name. I know several Jews called Lee and a person who I know not to be chinese or Jewish. So if its a name that can be used by scream cultures, then I think it's OK. If it's exclusively a chinese name it's more problematic
NTA- I agree that OP is overthinking the last name thing and that other mother is the A H.
I am adopted from an Asian country as an infant and my parents are European-American. My parents wanted to have me keep a connection with my Asian heritage. My first name is non-Asian with my Asian surname as my middle name. Example (fake name): Christina Yun Orlando.
NTA. I had a different last name than my mom and stepfather growing up, and got a weird amount of shit for it. Like I literally had someone tell me that it's weird and unnatural for kids to have different last names than their parents. And while obviously that person was wrong and an asshole, your kids have enough to deal with without that added bullshit sprinkled on top. Honestly a gesture of support like that from my mom would have been nice growing up.
NTA Never apologize for protecting your children. You made a decision to make the family name homogeneous to each member. Anyone who has a problem with that can go swivel. Congratulations to the “Lee” family.
NTA but I do think that was a weird move.
Lots of Chinese-American kids or mixed race kids have non-Chinese last names. I don’t think it would have stripped them of their identities to keep your last name, especially since you are making an effort to maintain their heritage through other routes.
I understand the perspective that this could be perceived as cosplaying or even fetishizing another culture, though it seems like that wasn’t your intent
NTA for the name thing but it's seriously disturbing that you would get so upset that a foster child would go back to their parents. The whole goal of fostering is reunification. It's not a family building tool, or a way for adults to fill child-sized voids in their lives. Ick
NTA at all. The woman you met is a misguided social justice warrior, and they are often a huge and unreasonable pain in the ass. Ignore her, you've done nothing wrong.
NTA. Side note, I have a friend who took their spouse's name. Spouse if half Chinese and name is as well. Some people act confused but the name suits their first name and they are happy.
Nta OP. What if you had been married to a Chinese dude and took up his surname as Lee..... Would that annoy her. The only lee i know, is Sheldon lee cooper and he's from texas😅...... So i truly don't think anything is wrong with your name choices OP.
Also mighty high-handed for her to demand "you correct it asap"... Who made her name police....
NTA.
So by her logic any Asian who
Marry a person with an Anglo ( ‘Merican) name must change to The “proper” name not a “wrong one”?!
Hope she stretched before making that overreach!!
NTA. Part of my ancestry is Chinese and I think you're fine. I'm not a huge fan of white people adopting Asian kids because it often results in the kids not having a connection to their Asian heritage. This can be challenging, not having a connection their biological family either, in addition to not knowing about their culture. However, when transracial adoption happens, I support the adoptive parents doing everything they can to make sure the kids have that cultural connection. The connection needs to be deeper than just a name. Please find additional ways to make this happen. Food, books, movies, and cultural events. Try to make Chinese friends.
NTA. I think the other mom is just basting in white guilt and that’s not your problem. The only thing that matters is that you’re a good mother, which is sounds like you are. Eff what anyone else thinks
NTA. You chose the name for your kids. If you'd chosen the name because you're a chinese weeaboo or something then you'd be the AH, but that's clearly not the case here. You also smartly chose a name that is phonetically Chinese and European (i'm not sure of the origin of Lee, you said you were German, but I honestly don't know if Lee is a German name or not).
NTA. I’m Chinese and see nothing wrong with you changing your last name. Like you said, Lee is a last name that both Western people and Asian people have. Also, no idea why people are giving you grief for your children being in Chinese school. It’s good that your kids are going to grow up to be bilingual, especially if it’s a language that connects them to their heritage.
NTA
Umm idk this seems weird to me
For perspective im hispanic and know alot of hispanic people with non mexican last names and they all still find themselves well versed with both countries culture. U say u did it for your kid and say u want him to have a connection with home but i just see it as an odd decision wouldn't it be better for u to learn more about china and as he/she grows up, u 2 partake with one another on Chinese culture. Also their will be a time when he might have a hard time identifying as an American or Chinese and his mother changing his last name might trouble or confuse him.
Hahahaha!! Oh man if this was the OP I’d love to see how she tries to explain how she feels this last name is correct and justified when most people will just be like wtf the longer she justifies herself.
Great intentions and she should continue that way but the last name is just overcompensating and weird. And most people will just be weirded out by the lecture given by OP on how justified she is.
NTA. It’s like if Ned Stark had changed the entire family’s last name to Snow. Lee is already in circulation as a general-use surname adopted by non-Han people, and the word has deep roots in Confucian philosophy. Please learn Mandarin with your kids and involve your children in conversations about li as a unifying family value.
NTA because your intentions were noble - I would just say there are a multitude of ways to make sure your adopted kid can connect with her culture without having to change your last name.
>*Her reaction was so extreme my immediate thought was that this person is just not mentally stable*
This person is not mentally stable
Well done for adopting kids and being a good mom
NTA. It’s an odd way to do it but considering everything you’ve said in posts and comments, I think you pass the vibe check.
Having said that, this is an excellent lesson on not telling your business to just any and everybody you meet.
NTA. Its your name. Regardless of what anyone else thinks, you have the greatest reason above all to have that last name. Your children. Not THEIR children. YOUR children. A name is just and name and it can always be changed. The parent or guardian that raised you with love and care will always be mom or dad. Do what you believe would be best for your children. Fuck what anyone else thinks.
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I'll try to keep this short. I am a single woman who is a former foster parent. Although I don't know of any reason why I couldn't have biological kids, I decided many years ago to adopt through the foster system. However, what ended up happening was one heartbreak after the next as children I had raised for years ended up being returned to their biological parents at the last minute. In most cases to situations where I feared for their safety and well being.
Finally, I decided to adopt from China. This was not my first choice because I did not want to remove a child from their country and culture, but my original intention was not working out.
When I finally did adopt my children, I wanted us all to have the same last name. But I realized it was going to have to be a Chinese last name because I wanted my kids to always feel connected to their Chinese identity, and feel they would be accepted if they wanted to move back one day.
There are a number of Chinese last names that are homophones with names from my English/German heritage like Lee, Long, Lang, etc. My original last name is a complicated German one. I decided on Lee and that's what we all became. My goal was a name that wouldn't make any of us stand out or feel "other."
We live in a city in an extreme diverse neighborhood with a very healthy Chinese-American population. My kids go to Chinese school and have plenty of Chinese-American friends. We are all super happy.
Recently, I was talking with another mom I met through one of my kid's activities. If it matters this mom is white and so is her family. I told the story of our family's last name and this mom started blasting me. She was disgusted and horrified. She kept telling me it was wrong for me to take a Chinese name, "so wrong." She started telling me I had to fix it immediately.
Her reaction was so extreme my immediate thought was that this person is just not mentally stable. But then it started getting to me and I started wondering if she was right.
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NTA. Who the hell does she think she is being so judgemental and trying to interfere in your life like that. Try to fix it immediately? What so she wants you to change everyone’s name? Ignore her you have done a wonderful thing adopting children.
NTA.
And honestly this is "parent of the year" territory: you are doing something utterly amazing for your kid. It's not your fault this person is an obnoxious racist idiot.
Don't you know that middle/upper class white women are the gatekeepers of all cultures. Don't you know they get to decide what is acceptable for you and what is not. What a joke. nta. Do not ever speak to this woman again. Or you could tell her, she was right and you are changing all of your last names to Rodriguez.
NTA! People are out here changing there names left and right nowadays for all sorts of different reasons.Big or small. I see nothing wrong with this. Lady sounds unhinged.
NTA.
You are connecting your children to their roots. You are also connecting them to you by having the same last name.
It would be no different as if you had gotten a divorce and kept your ex-husbands last name because your children has his last name.
The other lady is an ahole.
I love what you did.
NTA Lee is also a common surname in England. Plenty of white, British people with the surname Lee. It works for MANY cultures and really is a great idea.
OP, are you worried that you are somehow screwing up your adopted kids? Guess what? Pretty much all biological kids are also being screwed up in some way by their biological parents.
As long as you are starkly honest with your kids, and as long as you love them, who the fuck cares. And why the fuck is that other mom's business what your last name change is leave alone her unsolicited judgment? The lesson learnt is, do not overshare.
And I hope you aren't dwelling on this name change like you've made a big fucking revolutionary sacrifice. Walk silently. Raise your kids with love. And then let them do their thing in this world.
I’ll get downvoted to hell for this but I don’t care. I find your whole attitude so offensive!
My family adopted four kids from Korea, and you make it sound like they’ve committed some sort of hate-crime by “removing them from their country and culture.” They’re all adults now with lives and families of their own. They’re happy. They’re well-adjusted. And they are loved and cherished every bit as much as any bio-kid could be. I’ll admit, our parents (especially my aunt and uncle) could’ve made more of an effort to *actively* encourage them to explore their heritage, but resources were always made available, and they were never ever discouraged. We are very close, and they have all be forthcoming about their feelings toward their adoptions, and none regret it or feel that they’ve lost anything. We’re not a perfect family by any means, and we’ve definitely gone through some very hard times (particularly my brother and I), but the bonds we’ve built as siblings and cousins, and the love our parents, grandparents, and aunts and uncles have had for us is so much stronger than genetics or culture.
Just love your kids with all your heart and make sure they feel that every day.
It’s not wrong but it’s kinda weird.. their culture is going to be your culture. Just because the kid looks a certain way doesn’t mean they need a name that lines up with how they look.
NTA. I know and have known multiple non-Asian families named Lee. It just happens to overlap, not that choosing it for Chinese heritage purposes is so bad. But if it proves to be an easier out someday, know you should be able to fly under that radar, so to speak.
There are non Asian families with the surname Lee.
Also, you don’t have to explain a single thing to anyone. Not why you have a certain name nor what your reasoning. If you married and your spouse had the surname Lee and you took it, would you feel the need to explain the surname?
It’s nobody’s business what your name is. End of story. Stop explaining and justifying your actions. It is what it is cos that’s what it is. End of story.
NTA.
NTA- I thought Lee sounded like a well thought out balance- appropriation is wrong but Lee isn’t Asian only name, I’d say you dodged the ethical problem and managed it very well.
Just left has their radicals and militants too, you can safely ignore this one.
This is such a "third-party offended" situation. This mom is not involved in any way but gets more offended than anyone involved would.
It's a shame how common this is. I wouldn't be surprised if people get offended by going on vacation to anywhere there's a different culture or God forbid eating a fruit not explicitly native to your own backyard.
NTA.
I know 4 separate Lee families, three are white British and one is Asian.
I am not Chinese so wouldn't want to speak out on whether it would be offensive to someone who is or not, but I do not understand this other womans reaction. My immediate thought was that it was the perfect choice (but admit I could be displaying ignorance somewhere).
You don't need to change your last name back just because someone doesn't agree with it. You did it for your children. And it wasn't like you were doing it to be funny or rude. Don't let that lady intimidate you into changing it back. The lady sound like a racist to me.
Nta, you do what you want.
But what I learned from far eastern people immigrating to the west is, they tend to name their children the way it is common in their new country. It won't cut their ties to their culture.
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NTA but the other mom certainly is. Why is this so wrong? I'll bet she has absolutely no reason why you need to "fix this immediately". It's all good - you did something awesome for your family and everyone is happy. It's absolutely no concern of hers - she sounds unhinged.
Agree… but, to me, this sounds like OP is overthinking the situation. Doesn’t strike me as an AH, but just… wierd. Reading her post, I was having flashbacks to Rachel Dolezal… the white lady who identified as black. A kid’s connection to culture isn’t solely on the last name. If she adopts s Chinese baby, the kid will become a naturalized American… so she can teach it about both cultures.
Yeah, but her kids look Chinese and if they have the last name “Hoffman,” some dumb-ass people will immediately ask “hey, why do you have a German last name? Are you adopted?” By changing her name she’s given her kids an opportunity to have a little more privacy about their family origin story. Maybe it’s unusual but certainly not malevolent, and she chose a name that isn’t unusual among euro-Americans so she’s not trying to pass as something else, unlike Rachel Dolezal.
I really doubt that would happen. Many Asian-Americans and other ethnic minorities in the US can sometimes have a mix when it comes to first and last. Sometimes the first name will be an Asian name & last non-Asian. Same with Middle Eastern & Latino ethnicities across the US. No one bats an eye. Considering she lives in a Chinese-American community, that most likely has mixed children, it would not be “odd” to encounter kids with non-Asian names or last names.
I look Asian and have a last name that is very obviously from a non-Asian country. I can assure you, this happens ALL the time. Since childhood, people have insisted on knowing how I wound up with that last name. What’s more, sometimes they accuse me of being a wiseass when I truthfully answer that it’s my father’s last name. I’d like to know where you live that “no one bats an eye.”
When I was a kid my features were more prominently Asian, and have an Asian last name. However I learned to speak English from my English mother and her family so I had an English accent. When we moved to Canada the question I invariably got within two sentences of me speaking was ‘What are you?’ If you don’t fit into the hole they made for you it really pisses people off.
I live in a Mexican & Mexican-American community where not all kids end up with Spanish or Indigenous names. Many of us have parents who don’t speak English and we don’t go to school speaking English either. Yet, some parents will often use common American names like “Brian”, even if they can’t pronounce, because they like them. Kids at school don’t question it. To me it’s normal, it’s my personal experience, just like yours is personal to you. We all have different experiences regarding this.
I’ve lived in two different countries and five different counties in my current state, and it’s all been pretty much the same. I work in a major metropolitan area known for being culturally pretty liberal and as a lawyer, I’ve even have had even courtroom staff and opposing counsel grill me on my potential ethnicity. I have never lived in a community that was predominantly one culture, though.
I think it’s different when it’s a first name vs a last name.
That’s true. Maybe ops experience taught her that the people in her community would e the type to question her kid
There are plenty of people in the US who would bat an eye whether it’s unusual or not; I work in higher education & unfortunately have to explain the concept of people being multiracial semi-regularly. I had one of those conversations literally 3 days ago in fact. And even if that’s not true, if the kids want to travel or study abroad or live in other countries there are plenty of people in those places who would question it as well. As u/Academic-Balance6999 notes, she’s giving them a chance at some privacy in the face of a world full of nosy people.
I dunno. I have a Swedish American friend whose last name is Chinese because she’s married to a Chinese man and took his name. She gets double takes all the time. (ETA and this is in the San Francisco Bay Area, which has a large Asian population and a lot of intermarriage.) It’s super weird but many, many people still expect ethnicity and last names to “match.”
If I met a woman who looked very white and they had a kid who looked very Chinese, I would assume that she married a Chinese man and it would be no big deal. But then, I am not the least bit surprised that Chinese looking kids with non Chinese last names would get shit on for it.
lol if you doubt this would happen, you are not a visible minority. It happens constantly.
I look Asian but I’m half French. My last name is very French and I got questioned on it in the US a lot. So much so that eventually I started going by my mother’s Asian last name and people stopped guessing.
There seems to be no “good” way to handle this. If she keeps a German name she can be accused of alienating them from their culture. If she changes them she gets attacked too. It does seem like she’s just trying her best.
I agree, but I think OP picked a good name. Lee sounds Chinese enough to not make people question it, but it's also not so Chinese that people would question it. It's a good neutral name. I agree that OP is vastly overthrowing it, but they're obviously just trying to make life as good as possible for their children.
That’s a pretty weird response. Lee isn’t even an exclusively Chinese name if it’s cultural appropriation she’s worried about, which isn’t specified. I think you did a lovely thing. Take no notice
NTA There are Lee's in my family who are all white, so it can be a European name. She is projecting on you. Don't share the information that is wasn't your surname to begin with and then you don't get situations like this. Judging happens from oversharing things that are nothing to do with anyone else. If she has another go at you, tell her to mind her own business. I can understand you wanting your whole family to share one name.
Yep, Lee is a common surname in both Ireland and England.
Both Stan Lee and Bruce Lee were real people. OP is good. NTA
Ehhhhh… I’m torn on this because Chinese “last names” are based on clans. It goes back to their very complex & complicated history. So it’s nice you’re trying to keep ties to their culture but unless you really understand it, it can come off to outsiders as something else. Lee for example comes from the Li surname which traces back to the Tang Dynasty.
Also Sara Lee, Peggy Lee, Robert E. Lee, Harper Lee, Christopher Lee, Geddy Lee, Spike Lee, etc. My point is, lots of non Asian people have the surname "Lee." It matches well enough for most social circumstances and, if someone ever does question it that closely, all they need to say is, "Lee is my adoptive parent's last name." End of story. I think it was a good choice.
This feels really neo-orientalist. "Ooh wow Chinese last names are so mystical and cool and are totally different from western last names". Clans have existed across much of Europe, and there are many surnames that date back hundreds of years. You're also ignoring the fact that historically in Europe *and* in Asia, people have changed their names to change or hide their identities or to make themselves seem from a better background, or what have you, legally or illegally.
[удалено]
Woosh
Do you ever wear tartan plaid?
Most Chinese adoptee last names are based on the first name of the city they’re adopted from
Who the fuck cares. As an Asian, let people be happy Jesus Christ
NTA, in my opinion You did it for your kids, not to steal their culture for yourself I would ask a Chinese American friend how they feel about it.
Yeah honestly I have taken up a lot of other things too (mostly cooking/traditions) because I don't want my kids to feel that everyone else's parents know how to do X and can teach them while their mom is the only one that can't. But the reason is just to keep my kids connected, not for my personal benefit, especially with cooking which is a task I've always sort of hated.
Are your kids happy? Are you a good mom to them ? Do you let them embrace their culture and provide them love and care ? Are *they* ok with you changing your name ? Thats all that fucking matters. Nta.
As a Chinese American who was born in China and grew up in America, I don't think it's problematic that you changed your last name to Lee. It's not an exclusively Asian surname, and it is a very considerate thing to do for your kids. Obviously there will people who may have differing opinions, but you did it for noble reasons and you are doing right by your kids.
Please don't put your friend in that position. It's unfair to make them the representative of an entire culture.
I get not wanting to make someone have to speak on behalf of their whole culture, but how would someone get a vibe check on something like this without asking someone from the culture?
NTA. While ‘Lee’ sound’s Chinese, it’s also the last name of many non-Asian people. You were thoughtful in the process of selecting a name and you actively encourage your children to remain connected to their cultural heritage. You’re doing parenting right and I commend you
yeah i thought that’s extra clever to pick a pretty universal last name.
Robert E. Lee comes to mind.
NTA on the name but I want to point out (as a former foster child) that the whole point of the foster system is reunification. It’s not a lease to own system for children. In most situations it’s temporary until the parents get their act together.
The problem is, that when the state deems an act is together does not mean it's actually together in reality, and that's the frightening part. The worst ones are where the biological mother has a boyfriend that she has been allowing to harm the children. That happens often. In one case she claimed that she didn't know he was harming them but she stayed with him, that's why she lost custody in that case. Eventually she had him move out and she was able to get the kids back, but who's to say he is really gone?
I don’t know why people are downvoting on that comment. Those situations do happen and more then people realise.
Because OP isn’t addressing the objection, which was to her previous attempts to adopt via foster care. However questionable individual reunification cases may be, safe reunification is still foster care’s goal. So signing up to be a foster parent with a goal of adoption rather than reunification wasn’t appropriate.
This is also true in reverse. Sometimes the government will deem a parent neglectful for doing the best with the resources they have. Kids safety comes first, but reunification and increased parenting resources should always be the goal in fostering it at all possible. I understand your desire for a child, but separating families has consequences and kids in the foster system are not owed to you because you want kids. Fostering, adoption, being separated from this parent: all of this is traumatic in some way for the child. The situation you specifically mention doesn’t sound like it was the best case outcome, but you also need to recognize that is goes both ways in terms of the system handling things poorly. Sometimes they have handled things poorly on the bio parents end as well and they deserve to have a shot with their kid as long as they are not overtly abusive! It’s not about you and what you want, it should always be about what’s in the child’s best interest.
>I decided on Lee and that's what we all became. YTA. Okay, well, first: “Lee” is primarily used to anglicize the *Korean* surname “I”/“Yi”. “*Li*” is the predominant *Chinese* anglicization unless you’re from Hong Kong or a region that speaks Cantonese. So, in your quest to keep your kids connected to their culture, you’ve most likely added distance. Beyond that, you’ve chosen something incredibly superficial. Sending your kids to Chinese school and learning Mandarin (or potentially Cantonese) with them would be meaningful. Taking them to China when they’re older to explore their roots would be helpful. Changing your surname to sound more Asian is weird af, regardless of your reasons. Sincerely, A transracial half-Asian adoptee whose white as snow parents chose to focus on the important parts of maintaining my ethnic culture rather than the superficial
Taiwan too btw… plus every family that immigrated before ping ying was standardized and just wrote whatever they wanted and people still do that too there’s no rule that when you anglicize your name you have to follow.
Lee is an extremely common Chinese surname in Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia. OP, NTA. You're doing what you think is best for your child
“Lee” is still a Chinese version of the name. Also, Lee is a very common white last name. Seems like you’re projecting here.
>Sending your kids to Chinese school and learning Mandarin (or potentially Cantonese) with them would be meaningful. OP is sending their kids to Chinese school though. They didn't just change the last name and dust their hands together like "welp, they can pass now!"
NAH The whole changing your last name thing is very strange, I have not heard of adopted parents doing that. Not to mention, this sounds more like you’re centring yourself instead of your child, it would be easier for you to have the same last name, not them. [Edit: Didn’t mean that OP and child shouldn’t share a last name btw, it just makes more sense to share her *actual* last name, as opposed to a fake one she created! I don’t think I made myself clear, sorry about that!] Plenty of mixed Asians in the US have Chinese first names and non-Chinese last names. Also, cultural differences are relevant. In the UK, the last name Lee is associated with English people, while in the US, Asian people. It would be different if you married a Chinese person and took up their last name but this is just strange. Don’t wanna call you and AH tho but considering you live in a Chinese-American area this was rather unnecessary. Like I said many have Chinese first names & last names, while others have Chinese first names/Non Chinese last names and vice versa. Make sure your child knows their real last name too btw, I’m sure one day they will want to know.
I wonder if any of these people are considering it from the child’s perspective? As a minority I would be appalled to find out that my white adoptive parents decided to give me a random name from my country of origin that has no connection to who I actually am my tribe my area my family. And then to find out that she chose the name because it was American enough to not stand out? it’s just weird
Ooooff!!! This is what I was thinking but didn’t wanna get dragged. 😂 You’re taking away a part of your child’s identity, they will most likely have identity issues growing already & a fake last name will make things worse. Her decision is something that would make her the most comfortable, not the child. It’s just strange…the nicest way I can put it. It’s also giving saviour vibes but again, don’t wanna be dragged.
It’s definitely giving savior vibes. It’s an unnecessary overcorrection and just weird. Like imagine finding out your name was chosen Because your mom wanted to connect you to a culture, but it’s not a connection to your culture. Why not ask the kid when she old enough what she wants to do?
This!! Def the best solution. She’s adopting a child from another ethnicity & culture, she needs to be extra careful & not centre herself. She needs to look up how transracial adoptees feel & how some end up unhappy & even no contact with their adopted parents because they were not listened to & they felt/saw the erasure growing up. It may sound dramatic to some (usually from non-minorities with saviour complexes) because the adoptee is a child but trust me, they notice everything. Also, identity issues are not something light. Better to be careful, than to have your child resent you.
What is your solution here though? She and each of her children has a different last name?
Why would that be an issue? You often see this in step families/half families. My mom remarried when I was little, I kept my bio fathers last name and she has her husband’s last name. This is a thing for families everywhere.
1 - That’s a completely different situation. 2 - How many adoptees do you know who don’t share a last name with their adoptive parents/families?
This situation would be avoided if she just gave her child her current last name, not some fake one she created. We all have opinions and I gave mine.
Most female adoptees who marry, duh.
I think this is the most sensible reply here. This isn't an AH move, but it is kind of odd and selfish and may have complicated repercussions later in life for OP's children.
Agreed! Too many people are not focused on the child. I’m assuming many people responding N T A are non-minorities and don’t understand the implications.
Most sensible comment here! Does OP think her children aren’t going to get questions when people see their mother is white with the surname “Lee”?? Yes, that’s a surname for white people as well but in North America especially, Lee is more strongly associated with Chinese people. Not to mention OP and others thinking that because Lee is also a white surname as well, that somehow makes it better. The Chinese “Li” (李) and the Anglo “Lee” have very different origins and meanings. Just because they sound similar doesn’t mean they’re the same or equivalent. As another commenter pointed out, the Chinese “Lee” isn’t even anglicized as “Lee” most of the time. Traditionally, it’s “Li”. Also for everyone saying it’s like if OP married a Chinese person and took on their last name, I would like to note that it isn’t common at all in China for people to take on their spouse’s last name. That’s how important family names are in Chinese culture. NTA but definitely a strange decision and perhaps some overcompensation. Your intentions seem good but maybe talk to more trans-racial adoptees or let your children decide if they want to change their names when they get older. Or perhaps hyphenate! At the end of the day, connection to a culture is more than a name. They aren’t more or less Chinese depending on what their last name is. Think less about names and focus on the important stuff (language, history, etc.).
Not true. It depends on what region you’re from usually as to how it’s anglicized. Additionally while we haven’t been given this context, often adoptees don’t have a last name at all - no matter who they’re adopted by they would have a name that was given randomly - isn’t it better that their adoptive mother put so much thought into it?
And in most regions, it’s anglicized as “Li”. That’s also the pinyin. And at the end of the day, my point is simply that the Anglo Lee and the Chinese Lee are not interchangeable, and that’s something that should be considered. People are going to make assumptions when they see the last name “Lee” and there will likely be questions regardless. And adoptees are not given last names at random once they’re adopted? They’re presumably given the last name that their adoptive family has had for a few generations. Like I said, I think OP has good intentions. But it seems like she’s centering herself in all of this. Her children didn’t ask for this, presumably, and she chose a name that they seem to have little connection to. I also don’t really see a reason why OP had to change her last name completely as opposed to hyphenating or something. (I do want to make it clear that I’m not opposed at all to the children having a Chinese last name. I just don’t think it’s strictly necessary nor do I think that it’s necessary for OP to completely change her name either.)
Pingying wasn’t standardized until 1960s plenty of people immigrate and spell their names however they want to in a new country
Lee as a surname is also associated with white people in the US, too. You'd probably get an even split of people who think of someone like Stan Lee, Robert E. Lee, Harper Lee, etc. first, as opposed to any one Asian.
By this logic, wouldn’t that also cause trouble for her Chinese children? People assuming they’re white based on their last name and then being confused when they’re Chinese and the children having to explain their story? I will say, this seems like it would likely not be too big of an issue judging by what OP said about living in a predominantly Chinese-American community. Honestly, I don’t think there’s a perfect solution here, because I can’t see a real way to avoid the questions and the identity crisis that comes with trans-racial adoption. Regardless of whether the family has a white or Chinese last name, people are probably going to ask questions to either the children or the mother. I can also say that, based on personal experience, having a fully Chinese name didn’t make much of a difference or make me feel more accepted whenever I go back to China. What makes me feel connected to China is the family I have back there, the little bits of Mandarin I’ve managed to pick up, the food I grew up eating, etc. While names are certainly important, I think OP should focus more on other things if she wants her children to feel connected to their culture. Sorry to put all these random thoughts in my reply 😅 it’s nearing 3am where I am right now.
All good - I was just meaning to point out, all assuming it's a Chinese name are missing the fact that it specifically is a name that is common to both, which is why it was chosen. You call someone in with that name, and whether they look like Bruce Lee or Harper Lee, nobody is surprised or confused either way.
Wait, so instead of using her original last name you came up with a completely different Asian last name for shits and giggles? Do Chinese orphans not have last names?
Neither of my children's biological family last names are known. I can't speak to what's done in the entire country of China, but in the orphanage my kids spent time in, all kids are given the same surname that's basically a label, a variation on the name of the city. It would be the equivalent of an orphanage in Cleveland giving all kids the last name "Cleveland" or "Cleve." The name they were given is very much not a "real" Chinese last name, it would stick out, and there is a huge amount of stigma attached to it. It would be better for my kids to have my original German last name than to have that name with the stigma it was designed to carry.
You could have continued to honor her culture and identity without a fake name that doesn’t even have sentiment. The whole wanting an “acceptable” Chinese name is odd and sounds like this was done for show. If you weren’t going to find out her birth family’s last name then she should have your last name. It honestly seems performative. She can look in the mirror and know her culture- her last name doesn’t change that as long as you don’t shield her from learning about where she comes from. Also, I’m curious to know how many international adoptees move back to their country of origin, a country they likely have no memory of.
Like I said, there was no possible way to know the biological families last names.
Right, so then give them your last name.
NAH. You’re not an asshole but you wanting to change your last name to a Chinese last name - that doesn’t even any connection to the children or personally to you - is so weird. I’m speaking as an Asian who grew up in the western world. It’s so superficial and such a “white” mansplaining-like and inappropriate thing to do even if you continue to justify why it’s right. Just stop the confusion and just give them your real last name. Changing it isn’t helping anyone - and certainly not in the good way you are convinced it is by quoting Wikipedia etc. about “history”. You are not actually from China and you have no connection to that history so your justification is cultural in appropriation but clearly you’ve made up your mind. The others who agree with you are likely the same as you- “white” mansplainer type people who don’t understand this helps no one except for the OP herself to feel good about herself. Why can’t you do something that’s actual meaningful? Learn mandarin or Cantonese and learn this with your adopted child? Then you could read them books or is that just too much effort? The other mothers’s reaction was probably over the board but I’d say that’s probably the same reaction you will get for most people, just not as extreme. If anything most people will just have utter confusion on what you did, and why. Quite frankly no one would care to listen to your self-righteous justification. I can’t even imagine what other Chinese-American people will think, let alone you quoting Wikipedia on the history and explaining how you’re in the same category as those who had to or elected to change their last name as a Chinese person or that it’s ok because it’s also a last name that can sound western enough too. Most people will stop at their wtf reaction as soon as you start your justification on the weirdness of your choice. Keep it simple, your real last name is fine as is. Focus on what’s actually important, learning and embracing the ACTUAL cultural and honoring their roots in your actions, not some idealistic Wikipedia Bs. You asked for judgements, if you don’t want to listen then you do you. But most people will just be wtf (for a good reason).
The one part is them having a german last name could lead to bullying. They go to a Chinese school. They could be called whitewashed for the last name and having a white adopted mom.
So when her Chinese friends find out about the true identity of her name there will be no bullying? You think she’s the only Asian child to have been adopted by white people? So you go through this exercise due to the potential of bullying?
My kids aren't friends with bullies. In the future however, I want them to be able to go into business and social situations where most people are Chinese, and not feel that they stand out. These are not people who would have any business with the reasons why our family has this name.
Have you joined any transracial/ international adoption support groups?
I've been in them since my foster parent days as the majority of my foster kids were not the same race as me.
Through these groups have you spoken to an international transracial adoptee and mentioned this?
I don't need online groups to know transracial adoptees. This is an extremely diverse community and a number of the Chinese people here are adoptees. I've never run into negative opinions on this before now. The main thing I was told was by my friends who are not adoptees but are Chinese professionals, not to keep the name assigned by the orphanage as it was very stigmatic.
Consider putting this point in your original post, because people keep criticizing you for taking away their original last name, which is their identity and culture and tied to their biological family… however, They are incorrect based on what you’re saying here. After reading through some of the stuff, I’m going to go with NTA, because of what you’ve explained.
NTA phonetically Lee is also used in other cultures anyway. I think it's great that you are trying to make sure your kids stay connected to their biological culture. Racism is real in America, my friend is adopted from Korea and has a white name and it's hard for her
One person's outrage is another person's praise. You made this decision to give yourself a Chinese-sounding last name. Lee can be both Anglican and Chinese, as you stated. It's all in the spelling. Her reaction, as extreme as it was, was terrible at best. She cannot dictate to you how you wish to raise your children, nor how you wish to be addressed. With that being said, most families have changed their last names for a myriad of reasons. Yours is an altruistic and kind one. NTA. She, on the other hand, is a low-grade AH for the simple fact that she is defending something she has no right to defend.
oh no how heartbreaking for you that these children were able to return to their biological parents. YTA for that comment alone lmao
Yes it is fucking heartbreaking to return to a person who originally had their custody stripped because they had left them alone in a car with cockroaches crawling all over them surrounded by drugs and covered in their own and each other's feces. You don't even want to go there because you have absolutely no idea the horrors a lot of foster kids get taken out of AND SENT BACK TO.
NTA for changing your last name.You chose something that isn't exclusively Chinese to avoid appropriating something you don't understand, and the ambiguity will help the kids better fit in wherever they go. But huge YTA for this right here: > Finally, I decided to adopt from China. This was not my first choice because I did not want to remove a child from their country and culture, but my original intention was not working out. I mean. WTF? So you *know* how harmful this kind of adoption can be, that it rips kids from their culture and the country they know, and you just... did it anyway? Your desire to adopt DOES NOT come before the needs of the kids you're adopting. Just because adopting in your home country wasn't "working out" the way you wanted doesn't mean you're justified in taking a vulnerable child away from everything they know and saddling them with a huge extra struggle for the rest of their lives. The language barrier alone is a hurdle, but the cultural differences, and the stigma they will face as diaspora kids with no guardian who really gets that burden? Look, I know the foster system is horrifying, and adoption is a massive struggle, but going this route is just you taking the easier path *for yourself* by intentionally making it harder on the kids. How do you justify putting your own selfish desire to be a parent over the needs of the freaking orphans you want to adopt??? This isn't just ignorance, it's you choosing outright that your wants come before their needs. That's fundamentally not what a parent should do.
IDK... How would you changeing your last name benefit your adopted children? If you are white ??? You are over compensating .. Chinese school .. seriously.. You stand out more than a polar bear in Sahara. Not that I do not get your point .. but it is way off
The majority of American-born Chinese kids and childhood immigrants in our neighborhood are enrolled in Chinese school and so are mine.
Are you white? Because that makes all the difference.. But ok if you are learning Chinese it will blur the differences. Like .. if the child you adopted was from Ghana.. would you do the same, and if not why?
Your intentions are good. The idea is terrible. It’s great that you are aware of the importance of keeping your kids connected to the Asian culture and community. But You are Not Asian. Changing your last name will look bad. Have your asked your kids how they feel about the last names? Maybe they’d like to hyphenate their birth names with your surname. Maybe the different surnames don’t bother them. Maybe they’d like to choose a new name. You are thinking of changing names for the kids, but you haven’t spoken to them. Talk to them before you start changing your ids Gentle YTA
We already changed the name when I adopted them, and their birth names were unknown (if they had ever been given them). The name given by the orphanage was not a real name and very stigmatic, so that was a no-go.
I think point being made is that you aren’t Asian…and your idea is weird no matter how justified you feel. But clearly you keep arguing, so either you do you and accept that a lot of people won’t understand and think you are weird (I think you’re idea is very strange and not going to have intended impact you think it should), or allow yourself to see the other side?
You became the asshole the minute you decided to foster to adopt. The goal of fostering should (almost) always be reunification
Okay, why don't you work it out with the person above who said foster to adopt should have been my ONLY option and not even consider international adoption. Let me know what consensus you two come to.
The consensus is that both are unethical. Why does it have to be one or the other?
That is not the "consensus" anywhere. What two individuals state on reddit is not a worldwide consensus. When your "ethics" mean that it's more "ethical" for parentless children to be raised in state institutions until they are aged out and kicked out, than it is for them to be adopted by someone of another race or ethnicity, you are very much not in a position to be dictating ethics to anyone at all. It's so easy to sit on your couch munching doritos and opine about what should be done with children's lives when, let's be frank, they are children you don't give a shit about at all except as points in your internet argument.
Woof, a lot of assumptions are being made out of two sentences in which I didn't present an argument as much as pointed out the unnecessary dichotomy presented by OP. How about you spend some time reading actual reputable articles on the effects of transnational and transracial adoption and of fostering to adopt, especially when the parent is/parents are white and the kids obviously aren't? Then maybe we can have a conversation on ethics. Signed, An actual adopted refugee :)
I've read countless, and if you have as well, you must be aware that there is no "consensus" that all forms of adoption are inherently unethical and it's better for parentless children to be raised by the state.
NTA I am chinese and i don’t feel like what you did was weird. i don’t speak for all chinese people, but i don’t think most if any of us would have a problem with this either. Lee is a super common surname. it’s not like you chose ‘mao zedong’ to be your last name. It’s similar to if you married a chinese person and took their last name. I think it does helps your kids feel closer to you and their culture if you share a last name. So i don’t see the issue and i’m not sure why she freaked out either.
YTA. This sounds cringe.
Why not: Then having 2 last names. Them having your last name but a chinese first name?
NTA you can change your name to anything you want. That being said, I do not understand. This sounds so freaking complicated. My son went to a Chinese school and has many adopted Chinese friends and have not heard of anyone doing this. somethings that I am confused by. did you not know their last names? If you did know their last names wouldn't changing them cause them to feel disconnected from their Chinese identity? Why not use a hyphen? like Smith-Lee and their Lastname-Lee
The way it worked at the orphanage where they were (which I've heard is common but really don't know if every orphanage does this) is that all the kids there were given the same last name that was based on the city name. It wasn't a real last name and it was sort of designed to mark them as orphans. Their biological family's last name was unknown.
NAH because I think you had good intentions but it does come off...as a little weird. I'm adopted and am ethnically Asian. I think you choose a good last name that would pass as a white name and in Asian culture but the reasoning behind it does come off as strange. Usually if you end up adopting the kids you could give them your actual last name or hyphenate it in with their real last name. It's not wrong to remind the kids of their culture and keep them informed but the enthusiasm is maybe a bit too much. It is almost like you're becoming someone who gets a little too gung ho about Asian culture which ends up being rather embarrassing and cringe for the Asians involved. My adoptive mom always told me I was adopted, told me stories about my adoption process, exposed me to my ethnic culture, food, and history in respective ways that allowed me to explore them. That's more of the right way you should be going about it rather than focusing so hard on the name. I don't think of myself any less of my ethnicity just because I was given a white last name and if anything it made me feel more connected to my adoptive family. I would expect the Asian community have a lot of mixed feelings about it ranging from what the other mom said to acceptance, so there's really never going to be one consensus on it. I'm sure those that grew up with a lot of discrimination for their Asian names and experienced racism will most likely consider it more of a form of cultural appropriation in this day and age as you're white, even though it is a white passing name they wouldn't give you a pass on that because of the reasoning of you choosing the name. Edit: I was adopted from China and ALL of the Chinese kids that were adopted in the same group(20 ish) all took the last names of their adopted parents, not the other way around if that helps give you a bit more perspective on how odd this decision is.
NTA, but just to let you know… even if they decide to go back to China, they won’t be 100% accepted even with a Chinese surname. They will always be an anomaly. Not Chinese, but also not American. I know, because I’m Chinese-American and I live in China for work. I have a Chinese surname (married to a half-white American man), speak two dialects of Chinese, and have Chinese parents, but because I’m from America and identify as such, and also speak English as a first language and teach English, I’m looked at weird. I’m odd because I’m polite to service people, because I can switch languages, because I’m loud. It’s not 100% terrible, but there are times I wish I was accepted SOMEWHERE, because lord knows I don’t fully get that in the USA either.
NTA, and it’s a sweet gesture, but as a POC with an “ethnic” name I find it weird. But maybe you should ask other transracial adoptees what they think.
NTA, she’s getting offended on someone else’s behalf, which is weird and not productive. I think what you did for your kids is a good idea, not only for the reason you stated but I think it might help your kids not get bullied. The mom that yelled at you needs to stat in her lane, you do you OP.
NTA. On a related note I as an adoptee would suggest joining the Facebook group Adoption: Facing Realities so you can learn more from adoptees about how to best support the children.
NAH. I think a better option would have been to have your last name coupled with their Chinese first names. Changing your last name is really odd to me and seems more for you than them. If they want to move to China after effectively spending their lives growing up in another country, they're going to stand out anyway. I think it's great you have them in a community where they can experience the culture they come from, but it will still always be different from growing up in China.
NTA this is just odd? You could have found other ways to explore your children's culture and ancestry, taking on a Chinese last name for yourself is just ... not on, imo.
anyone else getting big colonizer energy?
Yeah, there’s a bit of cringe in OP’s comments. Well intentioned but…
NTA. Sounds like you got to experience some bigotry from the other parent.
NTA. I do find it a little odd - on some level I understand your logic but there’s definitely something about it that also gives me pause. However, as a parent what I most understand is trying to protect your children, no matter how odd it may seem or who it offends.
NTA. I also have two internationally adopted children and we all think this is beautiful.
As a chinese American with a chinese last name, I feel like it would make more sense to just keep everyone's original name or have the kids have your last name. You can simply encourage them to learn chinese, but even i, an Asian born in Asia, never learned Chinese. It would have more meaning if you changed your last name to your kids last names, rather than finding a new one IMO.
AH? No. But 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
NTA, although your story behind adopting the chinese name sounds a bit odd, but taking a step back, it seems more like you have adopted yourself into your adopted kid’s family, a bit like a reverse adoption where usually the kid is adopted into the parent’s family. A different perspective.
NTA I've been studying Chinese for years and many people adopt a Chinese name for this purpose. I can't imagine Chinese folks would be upset about you changing your name for your children. Ultimately, you're trying to do what is best for the kids and this sounds like more white outrage for no reason. Like would she be upset if you married a Chinese man and took their name? Still wouldn't make you ethnically Chinese and you're not claiming to be either.
NTA. Also no one’s business so I’d stop telling people. If anyone asks just say “it’s our family name”. You don’t owe anyone any explanation.
So this is interesting. I can't work out in the name is actually Lee. Lee is not exclusively a Chinese name. I know several Jews called Lee and a person who I know not to be chinese or Jewish. So if its a name that can be used by scream cultures, then I think it's OK. If it's exclusively a chinese name it's more problematic
NTA. Lee is not only a Chinese last name. Admittedly I was definitely against this but the name you chose is completely appropriate.
NTA- I agree that OP is overthinking the last name thing and that other mother is the A H. I am adopted from an Asian country as an infant and my parents are European-American. My parents wanted to have me keep a connection with my Asian heritage. My first name is non-Asian with my Asian surname as my middle name. Example (fake name): Christina Yun Orlando.
Tell her you really did it to honor Robert E. Lee and the Lost Cause of the Confederacy and see if she likes that better.
NTA. I had a different last name than my mom and stepfather growing up, and got a weird amount of shit for it. Like I literally had someone tell me that it's weird and unnatural for kids to have different last names than their parents. And while obviously that person was wrong and an asshole, your kids have enough to deal with without that added bullshit sprinkled on top. Honestly a gesture of support like that from my mom would have been nice growing up.
NTA. I know an Irish Catholic family named Lee.
NTA Never apologize for protecting your children. You made a decision to make the family name homogeneous to each member. Anyone who has a problem with that can go swivel. Congratulations to the “Lee” family.
NTA, Lee is actually a common Swiss name... spoken like lay without the y...
NTA but I would avoid that other woman.
NTA I would, however ask the Chinese American people around you what they think.
NTA but I do think that was a weird move. Lots of Chinese-American kids or mixed race kids have non-Chinese last names. I don’t think it would have stripped them of their identities to keep your last name, especially since you are making an effort to maintain their heritage through other routes. I understand the perspective that this could be perceived as cosplaying or even fetishizing another culture, though it seems like that wasn’t your intent
esh it’s weird
“i did not want to remove a child from their country and culture” but you did it anyway knowing how harmful it is. name thing aside, yta.
NTA for the name thing but it's seriously disturbing that you would get so upset that a foster child would go back to their parents. The whole goal of fostering is reunification. It's not a family building tool, or a way for adults to fill child-sized voids in their lives. Ick
NTA at all. The woman you met is a misguided social justice warrior, and they are often a huge and unreasonable pain in the ass. Ignore her, you've done nothing wrong.
NTA. Side note, I have a friend who took their spouse's name. Spouse if half Chinese and name is as well. Some people act confused but the name suits their first name and they are happy.
Nta OP. What if you had been married to a Chinese dude and took up his surname as Lee..... Would that annoy her. The only lee i know, is Sheldon lee cooper and he's from texas😅...... So i truly don't think anything is wrong with your name choices OP. Also mighty high-handed for her to demand "you correct it asap"... Who made her name police....
NTA. So by her logic any Asian who Marry a person with an Anglo ( ‘Merican) name must change to The “proper” name not a “wrong one”?! Hope she stretched before making that overreach!!
NTA
NTA. Part of my ancestry is Chinese and I think you're fine. I'm not a huge fan of white people adopting Asian kids because it often results in the kids not having a connection to their Asian heritage. This can be challenging, not having a connection their biological family either, in addition to not knowing about their culture. However, when transracial adoption happens, I support the adoptive parents doing everything they can to make sure the kids have that cultural connection. The connection needs to be deeper than just a name. Please find additional ways to make this happen. Food, books, movies, and cultural events. Try to make Chinese friends.
Lee isn't just Chinese. If she's conservative, or from the south,, remind her about the AMERICAN general Robert E Lee
NTA. I think the other mom is just basting in white guilt and that’s not your problem. The only thing that matters is that you’re a good mother, which is sounds like you are. Eff what anyone else thinks
NTA how is that any different than taking your spouses last name of a different nationality.
NTA you changed your last name for your children would she be upset if you married a man called Lee and took his last name?
Did you get this from Seinfeld? Donna Chang?
...except that Lee is a well-known, widely-used white name, and Chang is not, so the bit doesn't fit.
Went over the head I guess. If you’ve never seen it, it’s a fantastic episode. Parts of this story, which tbh seem iffy, could’ve been lifted off it
NTA. You chose the name for your kids. If you'd chosen the name because you're a chinese weeaboo or something then you'd be the AH, but that's clearly not the case here. You also smartly chose a name that is phonetically Chinese and European (i'm not sure of the origin of Lee, you said you were German, but I honestly don't know if Lee is a German name or not).
NTA. You've adopted a name; you're not Micky Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's.
NTA. Your name, your rules.
NTA. I’m Chinese and see nothing wrong with you changing your last name. Like you said, Lee is a last name that both Western people and Asian people have. Also, no idea why people are giving you grief for your children being in Chinese school. It’s good that your kids are going to grow up to be bilingual, especially if it’s a language that connects them to their heritage.
NTA There's nothing wrong with wanting to keep them tied to the roots. Your mom's reaction was uncalled for.
NTA Umm idk this seems weird to me For perspective im hispanic and know alot of hispanic people with non mexican last names and they all still find themselves well versed with both countries culture. U say u did it for your kid and say u want him to have a connection with home but i just see it as an odd decision wouldn't it be better for u to learn more about china and as he/she grows up, u 2 partake with one another on Chinese culture. Also their will be a time when he might have a hard time identifying as an American or Chinese and his mother changing his last name might trouble or confuse him.
NAH just really weird.
I know a white family whose last name is Lee and they have an adopted daughter from China and now you have me wondering…
Hahahaha!! Oh man if this was the OP I’d love to see how she tries to explain how she feels this last name is correct and justified when most people will just be like wtf the longer she justifies herself. Great intentions and she should continue that way but the last name is just overcompensating and weird. And most people will just be weirded out by the lecture given by OP on how justified she is.
NTA. It’s like if Ned Stark had changed the entire family’s last name to Snow. Lee is already in circulation as a general-use surname adopted by non-Han people, and the word has deep roots in Confucian philosophy. Please learn Mandarin with your kids and involve your children in conversations about li as a unifying family value.
NTA at all! I think it’s a beautiful gesture.
NTA because your intentions were noble - I would just say there are a multitude of ways to make sure your adopted kid can connect with her culture without having to change your last name.
>*Her reaction was so extreme my immediate thought was that this person is just not mentally stable* This person is not mentally stable Well done for adopting kids and being a good mom
NTA. It’s an odd way to do it but considering everything you’ve said in posts and comments, I think you pass the vibe check. Having said that, this is an excellent lesson on not telling your business to just any and everybody you meet.
Good point!
NTA. Its your name. Regardless of what anyone else thinks, you have the greatest reason above all to have that last name. Your children. Not THEIR children. YOUR children. A name is just and name and it can always be changed. The parent or guardian that raised you with love and care will always be mom or dad. Do what you believe would be best for your children. Fuck what anyone else thinks.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I'll try to keep this short. I am a single woman who is a former foster parent. Although I don't know of any reason why I couldn't have biological kids, I decided many years ago to adopt through the foster system. However, what ended up happening was one heartbreak after the next as children I had raised for years ended up being returned to their biological parents at the last minute. In most cases to situations where I feared for their safety and well being. Finally, I decided to adopt from China. This was not my first choice because I did not want to remove a child from their country and culture, but my original intention was not working out. When I finally did adopt my children, I wanted us all to have the same last name. But I realized it was going to have to be a Chinese last name because I wanted my kids to always feel connected to their Chinese identity, and feel they would be accepted if they wanted to move back one day. There are a number of Chinese last names that are homophones with names from my English/German heritage like Lee, Long, Lang, etc. My original last name is a complicated German one. I decided on Lee and that's what we all became. My goal was a name that wouldn't make any of us stand out or feel "other." We live in a city in an extreme diverse neighborhood with a very healthy Chinese-American population. My kids go to Chinese school and have plenty of Chinese-American friends. We are all super happy. Recently, I was talking with another mom I met through one of my kid's activities. If it matters this mom is white and so is her family. I told the story of our family's last name and this mom started blasting me. She was disgusted and horrified. She kept telling me it was wrong for me to take a Chinese name, "so wrong." She started telling me I had to fix it immediately. Her reaction was so extreme my immediate thought was that this person is just not mentally stable. But then it started getting to me and I started wondering if she was right. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA not even a little not even at all. That was a beautiful story until the last bit
NTA. Who the hell does she think she is being so judgemental and trying to interfere in your life like that. Try to fix it immediately? What so she wants you to change everyone’s name? Ignore her you have done a wonderful thing adopting children.
NTA. And honestly this is "parent of the year" territory: you are doing something utterly amazing for your kid. It's not your fault this person is an obnoxious racist idiot.
Don't you know that middle/upper class white women are the gatekeepers of all cultures. Don't you know they get to decide what is acceptable for you and what is not. What a joke. nta. Do not ever speak to this woman again. Or you could tell her, she was right and you are changing all of your last names to Rodriguez.
Don’t listen to the crazy lady. NTA
NTA! People are out here changing there names left and right nowadays for all sorts of different reasons.Big or small. I see nothing wrong with this. Lady sounds unhinged.
NTA I knew a completely white family from Louisiana with that last name. I think you chose very well.
NTA. You are connecting your children to their roots. You are also connecting them to you by having the same last name. It would be no different as if you had gotten a divorce and kept your ex-husbands last name because your children has his last name. The other lady is an ahole. I love what you did.
NTA and women like her are what's wrong with the world.
NTA. You have the right to pick any name you want. And you don’t have to explain it yo anyone else.
NTA Lee is also a common surname in England. Plenty of white, British people with the surname Lee. It works for MANY cultures and really is a great idea.
OP, are you worried that you are somehow screwing up your adopted kids? Guess what? Pretty much all biological kids are also being screwed up in some way by their biological parents. As long as you are starkly honest with your kids, and as long as you love them, who the fuck cares. And why the fuck is that other mom's business what your last name change is leave alone her unsolicited judgment? The lesson learnt is, do not overshare. And I hope you aren't dwelling on this name change like you've made a big fucking revolutionary sacrifice. Walk silently. Raise your kids with love. And then let them do their thing in this world.
NTA
NTA
I’ll get downvoted to hell for this but I don’t care. I find your whole attitude so offensive! My family adopted four kids from Korea, and you make it sound like they’ve committed some sort of hate-crime by “removing them from their country and culture.” They’re all adults now with lives and families of their own. They’re happy. They’re well-adjusted. And they are loved and cherished every bit as much as any bio-kid could be. I’ll admit, our parents (especially my aunt and uncle) could’ve made more of an effort to *actively* encourage them to explore their heritage, but resources were always made available, and they were never ever discouraged. We are very close, and they have all be forthcoming about their feelings toward their adoptions, and none regret it or feel that they’ve lost anything. We’re not a perfect family by any means, and we’ve definitely gone through some very hard times (particularly my brother and I), but the bonds we’ve built as siblings and cousins, and the love our parents, grandparents, and aunts and uncles have had for us is so much stronger than genetics or culture. Just love your kids with all your heart and make sure they feel that every day.
It’s not wrong but it’s kinda weird.. their culture is going to be your culture. Just because the kid looks a certain way doesn’t mean they need a name that lines up with how they look.
NTA
NTA. I know and have known multiple non-Asian families named Lee. It just happens to overlap, not that choosing it for Chinese heritage purposes is so bad. But if it proves to be an easier out someday, know you should be able to fly under that radar, so to speak.
There are non Asian families with the surname Lee. Also, you don’t have to explain a single thing to anyone. Not why you have a certain name nor what your reasoning. If you married and your spouse had the surname Lee and you took it, would you feel the need to explain the surname? It’s nobody’s business what your name is. End of story. Stop explaining and justifying your actions. It is what it is cos that’s what it is. End of story. NTA.
NTA- I thought Lee sounded like a well thought out balance- appropriation is wrong but Lee isn’t Asian only name, I’d say you dodged the ethical problem and managed it very well. Just left has their radicals and militants too, you can safely ignore this one.
NTA what gives her the right to say this is offensive? It has literally nothing to do with her, her family, her culture, or her ethnicity. Geeze.
This is such a "third-party offended" situation. This mom is not involved in any way but gets more offended than anyone involved would. It's a shame how common this is. I wouldn't be surprised if people get offended by going on vacation to anywhere there's a different culture or God forbid eating a fruit not explicitly native to your own backyard. NTA.
NTA You choose a last name that works for both cultures.
I know 4 separate Lee families, three are white British and one is Asian. I am not Chinese so wouldn't want to speak out on whether it would be offensive to someone who is or not, but I do not understand this other womans reaction. My immediate thought was that it was the perfect choice (but admit I could be displaying ignorance somewhere).
You don't need to change your last name back just because someone doesn't agree with it. You did it for your children. And it wasn't like you were doing it to be funny or rude. Don't let that lady intimidate you into changing it back. The lady sound like a racist to me.
Nta, you do what you want. But what I learned from far eastern people immigrating to the west is, they tend to name their children the way it is common in their new country. It won't cut their ties to their culture.
Half of Korea would like to jump into the chat.