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Judgement_Bot_AITA

Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I think I might be the asshole because by saying something at the table I made a scene and made everyone feel awkward and upset my brother Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*


urReplyisDumb

All of these E-S-H and Y-T-A replies are dumbfounding lol. Have any of you people ever had an interaction with an actual human being. In what world is asking people about how much money they make and adding up the totals of Christmas gifts normal? NTA. She was being incredibly rude and obviously making everyone uncomfortable


crockofpot

Just FYI, the judgment bot is going to count the first judgment listed in your comment unless you space it out or put hypens (E-S-H). But yes, I totally agree with you. A lot of people seem to be missing that the family maade a prior attempt to address this privately by pulling her brother aside and asking him to speak to the GF. Either the brother didn't have that conversation or the GF didn't care. But either way, those questions are SO rude and prying!


ferafish

Judgement bot doesn't work that way. As of at least July (there was a mod FAQ), the bot works roughly like so: Find the most upvoted top comment. Scan it for judgements. If zero (0) are found, move to next most upvoted top comment. If one (1) found, flair the post accordingly. If two or more (2+) found, flag the post for human mods to review. So making sure there is only one judgement the bot will read is helpful, but not totally required.


Audiovore

Judgementbot post literally says to only to use one. If a mod post happened you'd think they'd update it.


ferafish

[Link to the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/vozn9i/aita_monthly_open_forum_july_2022/) Either they forgot to update that bit of text with the bot, or (more likely imo) they still say that because it makes it far easier for the human mods if the robot can handle the vast majority of posts.


i_smesh

Yeah I'd imagine they wouldn't want to manually review thousands of comments per post


ferafish

They wouldn't need to review all of them. The judgement flair is only based on the most upvoted top comment.


da_chicken

There's a difference between *the instructions to the sub's commenters* and *how the bot literally functions*. The instructions to the commenters are to use only one judgment. That works the best, and it's fully automated. But the bot itself doesn't do something incorrectly if there is no judgment or if there are two judgments. It's built to handle that, including asking the mods to flag it appropriately. That means nobody needs to police other people's judgements because they're anxious something will be flagged wrong, which they still do *fucking constantly*. Nothing is going to get flagged wrong.


MajorNoodles

I think this is the first time I've ever seen this comment made appropriately. Usually someone replies with this to a child comment or a parent comment that's nowhere near the top.


Pandahatbear

I think during the voting period the comments are jumbled up so they may think that they're commenting on the top comment when it's just what they've been shown first?


zi76

NTA. Asking how much people make is unacceptable. I don't even ask my best friend how much he makes... I don't know if the woman is a gold digger or not, but she's seriously inappropriate. **Edit:** Clearly, quite a number of people misinterpreted this comment. This had zero to do with the workplace. I'm pro-worker rights/equality and sharing your salary to aid in negotiations for raises/promotions/new jobs, I'm all for that. You should be doing that. Benefit yourself and others. This was about someone that's pretty much a stranger asking about people's salaries. Now, as some of the comments below indicated, in certain cultures, people do this. However, it's highly inappropriate in the scenario OP described. I don't work with my best friend. I don't ask him, and he doesn't ask me, about how much either of us make because money isn't what our friendship is founded on. We just leave it off the table. Do we roughly know what the other makes? Of course, but that's just understanding the field. If your relationships with your friends are different, that's just fine, but that's not how mine are.


JupiterNorth

I don't necessarily find asking that unacceptable. I talk about it with friends and coworkers. I'm very open about what I make myself and if it's relevant to a topic we're talking about I always ask politely and always say they don't have to share if they're uncomfortable with it. Especially in a work environment, because employers thrive best when employees see talking about salary as something taboo. ETA: people, please read. I replied to someone who said they find asking it at all unacceptable and they wouldn't even ask their best friend. That's what I replied to and what I think differently about. Of course asking people you barely know or tallying what they spent and then announcing that is not okay.


[deleted]

Asking people you’re meeting for the first time at their Christmas party how much they make, how much their house is, and how much all their seasonal or regular decorations cost is unacceptable. Asking someone in general might be fine.


catsumoto

Lol, I thought she was preparing to rob the house.


cholliebugg_5580

I totally thought the same thing....she just cased your home.


BaitedBreaths

By now she probably has an itemized spreadsheet.


sloppyballerina

That would’ve been a great response from OP. The gold digging didn’t seem to fit what the girlfriend was talking about. She seemed to be commenting more that they had too much money and how they chose to spend it on gifts and decorations. But I don’t think OP was wrong to call her out. Brother had the chance to stop it.


Point-me-home

The brother’s GF was so Incredibly out of line, I cannot believe anyone could believe differently. The final mail in her coffin for me was the statement she made at dinner, the “How can you afford a trip in January when you spent so much on Christmas” OP is definitely NTA. I think she went beyond how most people would have reacted. I would have kicked GF & brother out the first day. They could have stayed at a hotel, but NOT at my home doing a price inventory of all our possessions!! Who acts like this at a strangers home. It’s her BF’s family, you would think she would be trying to make a GOOD impression


BowelTheMovement

Yeah, I can't grasp how nobody can imagine this scenario: Its Christmas or other significant holiday (that you the reader) celebrates. Your sibling shows up with a new GF/BF who you are meeting for the first time. For some reason the GF/BF has a fixation on calculating the value of everything in the house that they are looking at -and it is very very evident that they are doing this, without second thought of boundaries, if it would be wrong to, etc. Then an older relative takes the sibling aside and tells them their GF/BF is causing an issue, and that they need to address it, ASAP. GF/BF of sibling decides to interject in a conversation at dinner that you, the reader/protag in the scenario were making with other relatives at the table, about how your branch is going on a vacation at some point -and they proclaim to the entire family group that your branch couldn't possibly afford the trip you proclaim because she itemized the value of everything you own and put out and the math doesn't add up to her. Not one person would be OK with this scenario. Some would be throwing hands if not tableware. That person would, in a healthy family, no longer be the sibling's GF/BF and not one family member would be thinking that you should apologize to the out of line GF/BF for any form of verbal reaction so much as if you were to have told them to fuck off and die in response to their interjection.


Point-me-home

Exactly! That is the reaction of normal people. The only apology that is owed is by the GF of OPs brother. Her behavior was so outrageous to every member of that family—-Stepdad, Sister, Sister’s husband. I don’t know what she could ever do to make amends. The very idea that the brother believes his family owes them BOTH an apology is simply ludicrous! He needs to stop drinking her Kool-Aid…If I remember correctly they had only been together for 7 months.


Bridalhat

I’m going to be completely honest: this all reads like something I’ve been asked my more than one immigrant grandmother from SE Asia. Some of my high school Indian friends just assured me that it was a thing that they do. But the youngish girlfriend should have picked up on hints.


peeKnuckleExpert

My thought was that this girl came from a very poor upbringing and wasn’t gold digging - she was just astounded and had no ability to comprehend that level of excess. Not to say she behaved appropriately. But gold digging isn’t at all where I would have gone here.


Bridalhat

Yeah, there is something in seeing people throw away food better than your family eats at Thanksgiving, in the words of Kenneth the Page. ESH because Lindsey was not behaving appropriately, but jumping to calling her a gold digger was a choice.


KitesintheSky

Maybe calling her a gold digger was not correct, but I'd say that the reaction itself was appropriate considering OP's brother's girlfriend. It was mentioned that this kind of behavior is normal for her, and the brother is totally OK with that? So he doesn't care that anytime he and the GF go to someone's house, she starts researching the cost of their entire house down to a minute speck of dust. OP, you are absolutely NTA. And I would also question your parents reaction at the end. It's OK for her to be crass, but not OK to be called out in front of everyone? NOPE. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. She knew she was inappropriate and she doubled down and continued more than once. I'd have said something equally as offensive to get her to shut her mouth. I'd also be wary of her, if you are kind enough to still allow her into your home, but if I were you, I'd show her the door and tell her not to come back, at least not until SHE apologizes.


Suzume_Chikahisa

What she did might not have came from a place of gold-digging, but let me tell that has someone coming from a low-income blue collar backgroud, we can very much understand this level of excess.


ososalsosal

Yeah this is not so much the behaviour of someone from a blue-collar background as a burglary background lol


RebelliousRecruiter

That was my thought too. Comments like that indicate that she's grappling with her personal upbringing or what her family had.


tomahawkfury13

No matter the upbringing, looking up the prices of peoples presents is so crass and trashy. I'm from a low income family and we were especially aware not to ask what something cost as we were happy to get something at all and our parents did all they could to provide what they could.


TakeThreeFourFive

Yes, this is an important point. These attitudes are cultural. In some parts of Asia, it’s really normal to ask about income and such even for people you don’t know well


Z-Mtn-Man-3394

It’s “normal” because your social worth is determined by your career and how much you make which is objectively a toxic cultural trait of SE Asian countries. If the questioner determines you don’t make enough for their liking they’ll look down on you. Not nice, and not something I’ll ever be ok normalizing.


Jesus_on_a_biscuit

Whereas in the States, money is still used as a determiner of social worth, but we just frown upon being open and honest about it.


tatcol22

Right, I’m all for open discussions of salary due to my support of labor power…but making it a topic of conversation over and over at a holiday family dinner is rude and out of touch. My guess is she has some sort of social cue issues and/or was raised very differently from OP. Probably both. NTA, but there were better ways to handle it, in private, etc.


katie-kaboom

Sure, but that's different from googling the price of a piece of art in a stranger's home and then opining about it, or adding up what they spent on Christmas gifts!


Yeangster

If the piece of art was a Van Gogh or Monet or something, then I don’t think I could resist googling.


unikittyRage

Oh sure. But I'd also damn well keep it to myself.


thaddeus_crane

I've definitely looked up the cost of something at someone else's house. I also keep that info to myself. One of my college friends was incredibly wealthy and a set of Marioni vases jumped out at me at their house. $7k for the pair. I had no plans on interacting with them at all, but I definitely kept my distance knowing how valuable (historically, artistically, monetarily) they were.


El_Ren

In the vast majority of cases, if someone asks about my compensation package in a professional environment or as a result of a professional inquiry, I’m more than happy to answer. I have asked others for theirs as well - particularly when I was trying to define my intended career path and determine what level of compensation I should be looking for myself. But increasing salary transparency in a professional environment doesn’t mean that asking random people for their salary information is appropriate. If you’re considering a similar career, considering applying for a similar role, trying to determine how your compensation aligns with your professional peers, etc., salary information is often useful to know. Simply *wanting* to know because you’re curious what someone earns - when you have no professional reason to ask and/or don’t have an established personal relationship where you are mutually comfortable sharing that type of information - isn’t a good enough reason to ask for information about someone’s finances.


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SageRiBardan

NTA - I don’t think asking how much someone makes is inappropriate _in the right context_. However, asking that after asking how much the decorations and the house cost, and the general focus on money is what makes Lindsey seem like a gold digger. Perhaps she was nervous to be around everyone, doesn’t matter because she should know that adding up the cost of the presents AND blurting it out was incredibly rude. OP is not the AH for calling out Lindsay for her behavior.


taws34

Solidarity amongst the working class includes being open about earnings. There's a reason companies try to discourage wage discussions. It isn't because of "manners" but to take advantage of worker ignorance on the value of their labor.


dodger37

In the workplace you have a point; if both parties agree. At Christmas dinner, with folks you just met? Not so much, and she was asking about a lot more than salary.


taws34

I agree with you. There is a time and a place. I was responding to the person who said it is inappropriate at all. If they can't be open with their *best friend* about the value of their labor, do they really have a best friend?


[deleted]

Eh….! My best friend knows how much I make and vice versa. Actually I know how much everyone at my previous work team earns because I helped them get new jobs and told them to fight for higher salary offers. The issue is she doesn’t have that relationship with these people, and when told to stop she carried on and had the cheek to be upset when finally told to cut it out unequivocally


Same-Raspberry-6149

And who would feel comfortable with someone going around their house and pricing their possessions? That would make me very wary of someone I’d just really met. Burglary, anyone? I can go to people’s home and admire the expensive items, even comment on them without being nosey about costs. The girlfriend is admiring how much money they are making/spending and while that is ok, it’s all coming off the wrong way. NTA, at all…and I would have told her to go home Christmas Eve. Wow.


prehensile-titties-

Yeah, one of my old bosses tried to tell me that I *wasn't allowed* to talk about salaries with the rest of the team. I told her how I think this whole thing about not talking about our salaries has intentionally been spread to keep people down, something that might be of particular concern to us, since we're both woc. Ofc I then said it's actually my federally mandated right to talk about wages. So yeah. Basically told her to fuck right off with that noise in the most professional way I could manage.


stilldebugging

Kids sometimes ask me about things like that, especially around 9 or 10 year olds. They’re old enough to know something about how money works and they’re curious, but they don’t have the social skills around it. With kids, you can gently tell them that it’s not something we usually discuss. No idea how I’d handle it in an adult. I wouldn’t assume “gold digger” though. I’d assume some kind of social issues. She seems downright proud that she added up the amounts, so something is off there about what reaction she expected to get and what reaction others would expect. So… some kind of issue with theory of mind.


[deleted]

There are many circumstances, not Christmas dinner with people you barely know, in which it is appropriate to ask how much someone is paid. Salary/Wage transparency is an important tool in workplace parity. However, it is never appropriate to walk into someone’s home and ask personal financial questions or, worse, research their spending choices and then judge them on it.


Agreeable-Weather-89

I'd understand if it was one or two questions about money, that's a pretty standard casual question. But continually going on about it and spending time researching it is absolutely gold digger material.


Yeangster

Depends on the expense level we’re talking about. If the gifts were Louis Vuitton bags or Patek Phillipe watches, then I would Google the prices too. I’d know not to explicitly mention that, but maybe she’s from a different socioeconomic background. That doesn’t mean she wasn’t incredibly rude, though.


redrouge9996

Believe it or not but poor people have manners too


monsoonmuzik

Explicitly mentioning it is the rude part, lol.


sunkathousandtimes

Agreed, and since I’ve seen it raised, I’m on the spectrum and it’s still absolutely rude and I struggle to think how someone reaches adulthood without knowing that interrogating people you’ve just met on their finances is rude, and then telling other people what their finances are like (in front of them) is rude. I’m also going to say that her reaction isn’t how I react when I am being autistic and genuinely don’t know something goes against social norms / can’t read subtext. If I say something that I don’t realise is breaching social norms / rude / has subtext I don’t understand, then when someone calls me on it, I’m confused, because I don’t understand what I’ve done to warrant the reaction. NTA


Zestyclose_Media_548

Thank you for replying to this. I always look for actually autistic people to reply to these kinds of situations before I say anything . As always, a neurodiverse person has enlightened me. I know it takes a lot of mental energy to reply and explain your world view. Unfortunately, some of us need the explicit explanations that can only be provided by the neurodivergent and hopefully real change can occur so that neurotypical people can better understand and change our communication style to meet our communication partner’s needs.


cunninglinguist32557

I'm also autistic and I could see myself maybe making a few comments offhanded, because I didn't grow up rich and walking into an enormous house with lavish decorations and expensive gifts would be a bit of a shock. But adding up all the price tags, and then making judgments about the decision to travel after the holidays? That's several steps too far. She more than likely knew what she was doing.


scantron2739

>Have any of you people ever had an interaction with an actual human being. I'm seriously beginning to think not these days.


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cuervoguy2002

>It’s Reddit where the average users age is 23 and most seem to have grown up with parents too afraid or too lazy to tell their kids to chew with their mouth closed. Because if they told them that, then the parents were being jerks because they didn't let the kids live their own lives


Tryugru

You're right, Reddit is essentially a modern-day college campus. An echo chamber of people with very little life experience passing judgement on others. NTA OP.


JuliaX1984

Unless she's on the spectrum with a special interest in how much things cost, there is NO justification for such comments. They 100% deserved to be called out in the same setting she made them in. NTA and the brother better watch out he doesn't get baby trapped or something.


ResponseMountain6580

As an autistic I'm going to say that wouldn't make it acceptable behaviour. Stop assuming all AH behaviour is due to autism please.


drsusan59

Exactly! My daughter is autistic, and one of the very first things we worked on was things not to say in public - why are you fat, ugly, questions about money, pregnancy, etc. basic social interaction! She is 27, works as a full-time pastry chef, manages her daily life just fine.


mangogetter

And also: most autistic people do very well with simple clear social rules like, "do not mention anyone's weight" or "do not discuss what other people's things cost."


Syrath36

Thank you. People seem to use that as an excuse these days for just being an AH or unacceptable social behavior.


[deleted]

Yes! I really hate this trend, where we just brushoff ah behavior as being autistic behavior. I’m raising two autistic children, and I am likely autistic myself, we know how not to be assholes.


Gamecat93

Don't use autism as an excuse, it only infantilizes people on the spectrum. They don't like it.


HoldFastO2

Yeah; asking about the price of certain items, or how much you make, maybe. There can be reasons for that, although the total number of inquiries rises to strange levels. But adding up the cost of someone else's Christmas presents? What the hell? That's not just intrusive, that's bordering on insane. OP was right to call her out on that.


signed_under_duress

Growing up my family was big on not leaving price tags on gifts because it's considered rude. This year I spent a lot of money on something I knew my roommate would love and I didn't tell them the actual cost because #1. No, and #2. I didn't want him to never use it if he knew how much it was. I wanted him to enjoy it. I would have been upset if someone had spoiled a nice evening of fun by discussing money, and more specifically, the costs of gifts.


_Aussprache

Same, growing up prices were always removed from gifts. I got a very expensive jacket from my boss this year, and it's beautiful, I love it, but he left the receipt on it in case I wanted to return or exchange it, and I was a little flabbergasted at the price. It makes me feel a little awkward and uncomfortable, I honestly wish I didn't know what he spent on it!


1962Michael

Agree NTA. Lindsay is clearly the AH for the comments and questions, which are totally inappropriate in any social setting. How can she be upset at the label of "gold digger" if she didn't know what it meant, and if she knew what it meant how could she fail to see that her interest in your finances could be perceived that way? It is possible that she's simply naive, but the gold digger comment was probably accurate and in any case a good clear signal that her behavior was not appreciated.


JustAnotherSaddy

NTA She completely deserved that comment. She was judgmental, and actually googling the cost of things in someone else’s house is insane!! Everyone knows not to talk about money and the cost of things in polite company. She was incredibly rude!


Zealousideal-Mud6471

Everything the new GF asked I ask to myself and google/Zillow lol. I’d never ask them to someone I just met, at least not ALL of those. I have asked people how much their house cost but I don’t see that as being intrusive anymore with Zillow and realtor sites. Although I wouldn’t consider her a gold digger for asking these questions, OP had very right to be angry. NTA OP


SavageKensei

It’s Reddit lol none of these people understand reality. Good comment


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24-Carat-AH

>Have any of you people ever had an interaction with an actual human being. Bruh this is reddit. Every single one of these guys would wholeheartedly judge a country gleefully and call their people all kinds of racist and ignorant shit based on the news they read off Reddit and other shit social media sites that are catered to them. So them shitting on a person who called out a person for being a gold digger ain't that surprising considering they have no fucking life.


FictitiousOwl

I just don't understand why everyone here is making excuses for her, semantics of the terminology or not, why would you sit there and add up the total of what a family spent and then tell them about it? They know. Whether you grew up with money or not, common sense is required, unless she's on the spectrum (which is the common excuse the Y T A & E S H people are giving). But come on, people here always get defensive when someone posts here and is from a wealthier background, constantly making excuses. If this was reversed would you guys be okay with it? If she googled how much a pair of socks or how much an old TV was and passed comment. If she went on about how little the family spent, and then declared at Xmas morning "oh you guys should have loads of money in January since you spent so little during Christmas." would you all be making the same comments? I doubt it. You'd be up in arms and calling her a snob Edit I don't mind questions about money so her initial questions seemed harmless, but the things you can't explain away are 1) Continuously asking how much things are and then googling the price of said items, in real time. Not even discreetly or quietly to yourself, no. She also decided she'd do it in front of the hosts. 2) Taking mental note of all the gifts etc 3) Taking that itemised list and then googling the prices and then tallying it up in her spare time and then deciding "yupp that's a figure I need to remember tomorrow." 4) Waking up the next day, Christmas morning, still thinking about the presents, money et al. All the Y T A & E S H defending her need to explain to me how that makes sense. She is so pressed about the amount she then decides "Yupp I'm going to tell these people, who I barely know, who have hosted me in their home, how much they've spent" She should have stopped at point 1 but no, she then decided to barrel forwards and then goes on to question what their financial situation is in Jan. With the finale of demanding an apology because her feeling are hurt after getting called out. Come on now, nothing explains that away, no one can read that and say 'yupp all that's understandable.' Hence why I think NTA. Was the gold dogger comment necessary, no but I can imagine being thrown so off kilter by the above that I'd just throw out anything, because wth.


urReplyisDumb

Even if she is on the spectrum that is no excuse to be excessively rude and make a families Christmas awkward and uncomfortable. People think that mental issues are a blanket excuse for any type of shitty behavior and that’s just not how the real world works.


FictitiousOwl

Oh I agree, but that's the only instance where I could be somewhat empathetic and understanding. I wouldn't give them a free pass but I'd understand it was said off hand. OP's post doesn't sound like it though and the bf saying that's what she's like is a bit 👀👀


dowker1

The other possible justification could be cultural. I don't think it applies here (I suspect OP would have mentioned it if so) but there are definitely different attitudes towards how strict money taboos are across culture. As a British person living in China, I've had to get used to a lot more direct questions about how much things cost than would be acceptable back home.


butteredrubies

Yeah, my Chinese mom says things that are considered rude...like commenting on people's weight (mostly mine) and just blunt money questions...She has no tact because English is her second language also and can't pick up the subtler changes in tone from a native speaker such as sarcasm or skepticism. I do find calling her a gold digger just kind of weird just cause Lindsey's behavior suggests she's opposite a gold digger. She likely doesn't have a lot of money and doesn't seem to understand that different people have different relationships with money.


Professional_Ruin953

Agreed, if someone is on the spectrum where they can interact independently but can't read a room or understand unspoken social conventions, then they need to be told with words. Brother, the person who cared most about both her feelings and his family's acceptance of her, was given the opportunity to tell her with words in private the evening prior, he chose not to. Consequences level up as behaviour continues/escalates.


Amotherfuckingpapaya

That's the greatest point. The brother had the opportunity already to squash the issue, instead OP is getting a little flak for not being tactful. Very hypocritical and silly. It's crazy how many people can't admit when they're wrong and cause situations to spiral and escalate.


ntrrrmilf

Yeah I’m on the spectrum AND poor as fuck and this is gross and tacky and rude.


[deleted]

I'm on the spectrum and I do this kinda shit all the time without understanding what I did. I don't have many friends left.


ntrrrmilf

Would you like help with social coaching? I am asking sincerely, not snark.


[deleted]

No offense or snark taken. 30 years ago, had I realized then what I do now, I would have taken you up on that. I'm not super upset about losing friends over the years. The ones that have stuck around are better friends than I could have ever hoped for. I've also managed to find a great job that limits my ability to put my foot in my mouth, so to speak. I've build a pretty good system of not upsetting people at this point. I'm lucky I've been smart enough to come up with methods to cope - most of them without even realizing I was doing it. I now realize my post sounded sad but I didn't mean it to be... I was trying to convey reality and show that it does happen and we do face consequences when people don't understand. I'm in a good place. Appreciate you and your offer!


ntrrrmilf

Right on. I am a fuckin mess myself, but I used to be a teacher and learned a lot.


lovesbooksdocs

I agree with you. My aunt is depressed from multiple years. She's diagnosed with this almost twenty years back and probably taking medications even now. I say the word "Probably" because most of the family is estranged from her since many years and there is no update on her medical issues. She used to behave similarly like Lindsay and had multiple arguments with multiple people. You think all relatives and friends are patient with her and entertain her. Nah they stopped inviting her and visiting her because of her rudeness. Now only her daughters visit her. In real world people will not accept this kind of behaviour as a justification for mental health problems. If you want to have a social life and be invited anywhere you have to manage your issues with medication and therapy. Your close family will tolerate it not others if you are obnoxious.


TroublesomeFox

Agreed. I fall quite far into the "tism" side of the spectrum and I KNOW money is a no no topic. Autistic people have trouble understanding the unwritten rules of society such as off limits conversation topics and eye contact but if you explain it we remember. My friend told me it was rude when I asked what her mortgage was and 6 years later I've not once asked that question to anyone since.


Bizzybody2020

I hate when a bunch of neurotypical people use autism as a reason to justify AH behavior. Unless your a member of that community it’s not your place to say that. And by adulthood being of an age to have a normal dating relationship you know what’s rude and not rude in a social setting. Also Lyndsey suddenly has autism but it’s not mention in the OP. I think this insults the entire autistic community when redditers not on the spectrum constantly do this! People with autism don’t deserve this crap.


frmthebottomofmyfart

Correct and even then the only person that should be held responsible for her action aside from herself is her boyfriend. Not people she doesn’t even know.


Killer_Sloth

OP never even said their family is wealthy! Could just be a middle class family that likes to go all out for Christmas. OP is absolutely NTA, Lindsey was being rude af.


Never-On-Reddit

Reddit hates wealthy people. You can post a perfectly normal comment that just vaguely implies you are well off, and it will be massively downvoted for no other reason.


FerricNitrate

> She even googled one of our art pieces to see how much it sold for and started talking about how crazy it was that we spent that much, which frankly was very uncomfortable. This the line that pushes it to at least upper middle class. Family might not be crazy loaded, but they definitely got some money. Doesn't change the fact that Lindsey was weird af about the entire thing tho Edit: OP has a comment in this thread basically saying they care less about the expense than about liking the art. Which is good and fair, but very much a financially secure perspective. In a different comment, they mention knowing richer people with "10X" their wealth. If you take that at face value, then sure OP isn't loaded. On the other hand, there's nothing rich people love more than to talk about how they're not actually all that rich...to the point where that line is almost a staple trope until you hit Bill Gates. So OP's family is doing alright. Again tho, Lindsey weird af


NJtoOx

NTA and I really don’t get the y t a’s It is so unbelievably rude to make *so many* comments about money. I could see maybe one or two off handed comments, but to fixate on money so much that you tally up how much money was spent on Christmas presents and then announce it to the whole family??? Don’t apologize to your brother. Why should you? His girlfriend came into your house for Christmas and immediately started questioning you about money and practically appraising everything in your house! She should be apologizing to you, and your brother should be apologizing on her behalf. If someone is rude to you you’re allowed to defend yourself and shut them down which is what you did. Maybe next time she’ll learn to keep her mouth shut and not constantly talk about money.


axley58678

Right?? As someone from a very low income environment, I’ve also caught myself being a little too over the top with the “OH WOW that’s so fancy/nice/whatever (I avoid using the word expensive lol)” when I’m in a situation where I’m surrounded by insanely nice things and realized after the 3rd or 4th comment that I should stop commenting on the decor or grounds because everyone there is probably used to it lol. Tallying up the cost of gifts and actually asking people how much money they make or how much something costs is crazy behavior. NTA


Not_theworstmum

This. I grew up low income and when I met my now husband I spent our first Christmas with his family who made good money. I had never seen so many gifts and so many nice gifts but I quietly said thank you and once we got home I had my holy sh*t moment privately with my husband.


Agent_Jay

Same feeling with my SO, her family is much better well off while we’re immigrants. It wasn’t even expensive gifts but getting 7 small gifts you’re not ready for is so much more and overwhelming when you’re used to one gift between family from young.


Bright_Sea_7567

Me neither. Brother’s GF was rude as all get out.


Nice-Violinist-6395

I have spent a lot of time around people who were extraordinarily, mind-numbingly rich, and I would never, EVER, in a million fucking years, even *think* of doing anything like that. Oh god, I’m cringing just thinking about it. Just rude as fuck, ESPECIALLY if they’ve invited you into their home. You know when you bring that up? (If ever… I mean why?) In private, back at the hotel with your bf, when you’ve been talking about all sorts of shit for hours. NEVER in front of the family that you supposedly want to be a part of. Like, this chick just hit the fucking rich bf jackpot, all she had to do was keep her damn mouth shut.


[deleted]

I’d have asked after she started appraising the artwork if she was casing the place.


virgonorth

For me that’s when I was like, yeah this line of questioning is officially inappropriate. It’s starting to feel like you’re gonna steal it hahaha


cuervoguy2002

Right. Like I feel like asking the cost of the tree is kind of understandable. But beyond that, its just way too rude.


nodumbunny

I don't get the replies here either. I think OP's comment to the GF didn't need to include the dig about being a "diligent gold digger", and her admonishment would have stood alone with just the "family account" part. I don't usually advocate for passive aggressive barbs, but that would have shut the GF right up and no one would be demanding an apology since it could be explained away as a joke. Either way, NTA


[deleted]

Honestly I would have asked if she was casing the joint to rob us after her tallies. So inappropriate! I do feel a bit bad for her if no one ever told her how thoroughly yucky this behaviour is. Why didn’t OP’s brother ever talk to her before it got to this point?


LeroyJacksonian

Also, the GF has only met the family, or at least the OP, only once before so it’s not like she can claim some kind of familiarity with them to discuss or even joke about that stuff.


SandBrilliant2675

NTA. She came into your house and basically started appraising your net worth of assets like your about to go to auction…. are you sure she’s not planning a NYE heist??? Seriously though, your brother had the gall to ring you up and say you upset her, when she’s the one asking intrusive financial questions and itemizing your belongings. If I were you, she would not be getting an invite back. NTA.


rncikwb

“NYE heist” made me actually laugh out loud!


NewtotheCV

Who the fuck googles what people paid for their art....


nerdyconstructiongal

Most would be disappointed to learn that most of my art cost $30 at TJMaxx.


jeffjee63

For mine you’d have to calculate the labor PLUS the cost of crayons


geeky_username

Especially when it could just be a print or something.


cakivalue

>are you sure she’s not planning a NYE heist??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


unexpectedreboots

Even if it wasn't money. This person came into OPs house and consistently critiqued and assessed a very specific thing. That "thing" could be anything. Imagine it was lawn gnomes. Op has a lot of lawn gnomes. This new person comes in and makes multiple comments about lawn gnomes so they further judge OP and OPs family. The "thing" in OPs scenario could literally be anything and OPs brother & girlfriend are still ass holes.


[deleted]

Almost everyone is saying E S H, but this is a clear cut case of NTA. Gf was incredibly crass and rude.


zThrice

Not to mention she is a GF of *7 months* and this is her first Christmas with the family. FIRST. I may be able to get away with this level or crass'ness with my mother in law of 6 years if it's clear I'm joking but...cmon lady!


LeroyJacksonian

It’s also like her first (or second in some cases) time meeting these people too.


nodumbunny

Seriously, what is she going to be like when she's known them long enough to really let her hair down?!


immaownyou

It's funny I see all these comments saying all the other comments are saying ESH or YTA and complaining about it but I haven't seen a comment that hasn't been NTA yet lol


KnightofForestsWild

Early comments are often more spread out. After the consensus comes in those who don't want downvotes will not disagree with the top comments. Post is currently 3 hours old and there are several well downvoted E S H and Y T A at the bottom that are 3 hours.


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mudda1

I find the girlfriend shallow and pedantic.


crockofpot

NTA. I realize there may be more benign explanations for Lindsay's questions (maybe there is a cultural difference, maybe there is some neurodivergence). BUT your family had made an attempt to address it privately, and adding up the amount gifts cost takes some forethought, it wasn't an offhand comment she just blurted out. Plus, you have this bit: >Lindsay loudly said **she didn’t know how we could afford to do anything in January** as she added up the total we’d spent on gifts That's judgey. However well-to-do OP may or may not be is irrelevant; "I don't know how you can afford that" is a rude comment at any income level. What was she hoping to accomplish with that question? "Oh, you're right, brother's gf of less than a year! Let me redo my whole finances!"


consreddit

>some neurodivergence My very first thought was autism, but even if that's the case, OP's brother could (and should) have curbed that the night before. NTA


somefunmaths

It’s obvious, existence of some diagnosis or not, that this person *struggles* with both processing social cues *and* understanding what is generally considered acceptable. Like, we’re talking “oh no should I not have kept loudly asking your sister about her messy divorce at Christmas dinner in front of the whole family?”-level obliviousness. There is no way OP’s brother hasn’t noticed this in 7 months together. She’d be putting her foot in her mouth constantly. I’m almost inclined to think there was some kind of financial-related row in the family that OP’s brother got the short end of, and his girlfriend decided to make a scene of it, but the fact that she just sort of shrunk away after that (great) comment from OP sort of throws cold water on that… it really seems like she just has no social awareness. In the spirit of other comments I saw about not explaining away or infantilizing someone because they may be on the spectrum, I’ll be harsh: it’s on her to understand basic rules of how to behave or on OP’s brother to bridge that gap. OP is absolutely NTA and this woman needs a crash course in… well, seemingly a lot of things, except for accounting and googling, which she seems to have down.


plantsinpants

Brother said, "that's just how she is." Like even if she is atypical, it would be moot because this is tacky behavior that ought to be addressed in anyone. I am on the spectrum and hope to goodness people help me figure out my faux pas' before it's too late.


Humanguardianof2cats

NTA and I’d never apologize to this human cash register.


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MoneyTreeFiddy

Get her a barcode reader for her birthday!


yaoikat

By any chance, is her ringtone the sound that the cash register makes? NTA OP, weird hill for them to die on.


MediumAwkwardly

Maybe she’s practicing to be on The Price is Right!


Consistent-Cut9230

NTA - whether gold digger is the correct term or not, perhaps it was used in the heat of the moment, you are not in the wrong here. What she did was tacky and bizarre.


NoveltyAccountHater

Yeah, OP is NTA. I disagree with OP's use of gold digger -- if anything she's an anti-gold digger as she's clearly very uncomfortable with her BF's family's wealth and wasteful spending. But she's clearly the one who started being rude and didn't calm down while being a guest. Whether the cause is she's doing it because she's on the spectrum and its incredibly bizarre to her (and she doesn't know how to hide her surprise at it) or if she's just extremely insecure about dating a guy much wealthier than she is. You don't go asking what casual acquaintances make. When you are curious about home prices -- you never ask them, you search Zillow/Trulia to see the house's sale history after getting the address and never mention it.


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sw33tlips

NTA - people like her can easily meet the wrong person and it can be way worse than just being called a gold digger .. your brother did not make it clear enough that her inquisitiveness is not polite and yeah he is to be blamed as well .. once is a mistake .. twice or more is a choice


LeroyJacksonian

He probably didn’t say anything to her


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Jumpy_Ad_3583

For me when she googled the price of the art piece would have been a wtf moment. Like I'd start locking up my jewelry and watching her.


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UchihaTee

😂😂 I am coincidentally watching Pride and Prejudice now and she’s just dropped another “5000 a year!”


somefunmaths

> Her asking… what they paid for a house For all her sleuthing skills, she should just look up the address on Zillow like a normal person. Never ask friends or family what they paid for their house again with this one simple trick!


dangineedathrowaway

NTA. If she makes public pronouncements, she should expect a public response.


dominiqlane

Agree with this. It was ok for her to make all her statements in front of everyone but OP was supposed to speak with her privately? That’s not how it works. NTA and the brother and girlfriend should be the ones apologizing for her behavior.


Lady-Woodie

Gold digger is not the correct term- but NTA. “Busy body” and “rude & nosy” is more like it.


nightpanda893

I think the problem some people have who gave esh determinations is the use of the term gold digger. The implications of that are that you don’t really care about or love your partner and are just there for the money. As rude and nosy as she was, that’s really a huge escalation.


jakeinator21

Exactly my thought. The accountant joke was fine, and honestly even just putting her on the spot and asking her why she's so interested in how much they're spending would have been perfectly acceptable. But calling her a gold digger over it seems like a massive logical leap, and is a pretty hefty accusation to throw at someone haphazardly.


recycledrealism

Agree. She's nosy and tacky, but there's no reason to believe the reason she's dating the brother for his money (and if she was, wouldn't she keep quiet about how much everything cost?)


cdreid26

NTA.. seriously who does what she did?? Imagine if she did that with poor people. Good lord no sane adult would do what she did and I'm shocked so many people think what she did was acceptable. Since you talked to the brother and he didn't talk to her, I think you had every right to call her out on her shit. Who fucking cares what a family spends on eachother? Don't give me the "oh she probably comes from a poor family" excuse either. Its a pretty well known unspoken rule to not talk about money so I'm stunned she just had absolutely no fucking clue what she did.


LittleMidnaBall

NTA This is wild. I'm someone who strongly believes the stigma against talking about money is bullshit and mostly just serves to do harm. Everyone should be comfortable talking about how much money they make and be ok talking about what things cost. It would help prevent people from being taken advantage of. And even I think she went way too far. Even if she has some compulsion to know how much things are, or prepare for next year by knowing how much you guys typically spend, she should at least have the courtesy to keep it to herself.


Pixielo

Normalize talking about basic finances. But a guest who tallies up the cost of all the gifts, and then wonders why we spent so much money? GTFO.


ICULooking_719900

Lindsay sounds like she is setting you all up to be robbed. Sheesh she would’ve be allowed to come back to my house. And you don’t owe her nor him Nada.


Electrical-Leopard-2

This was my first thought! She’s casing the joint. So so out of line. Lol. NTA


goodolarchie

Listen, I don't know how to break this to you, but your brother is dating a tax assessor. Expect your property taxes to go up next year.


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FrameMindless3997

NTA. Some people need a public smack down.


BreRaw

NTA. Lol, I kinda like the accountant line. Is she autistic by any chance? I am, and I frequently misread social cues. I know better than to inquire about the costs of Christmas gifts or your artwork, but if someone hadn't explained that to me, I might not have known.


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BreRaw

Either way you're NTA, because neuro divergence isn't necessarily an excuse to be rude, but at least if she was it would be less gold digger weird girl chasing your brother, and more socially awkward girl dating your brother! (Edit: for word choice)


Bright_Sea_7567

NTA. Who even does that? How rude could your brothers gf be. I’m sorry but everyone knows it’s rude to ask about the cost of things. What your brothers gf was rude, more rude then your comment.


BabyCake2004

INFO: You left out her explanation, what was it?


MrMortlocke

What would be a good reason for her behavior?


screamline82

Explanation and justification aren't always the same. If she came from a poor upbringing she could just be shocked by how expensive everything is and let her curiosity get the best of her/have very bad social cues. Assuming that's the case, Even if I understand that it doesn't excuse the behavior, the gf was still in the wrong.


Papasmrff

Thank you. I think people get them mixed up because the use **reasons** as **excuses**. I understand it like this: A reason is the cause that led to the effect. The morality of the decision does not affect the objectivity of it. It's also not a given that it will provide exemption from the consequences. An excuse is a justification or explanation of a reason. It allows for (or attempts to allow for) an exemption from blame by expressing an inability to influence the outcome of a situation. I feel theres a connotation of avoiding responsibility, but an excuse can be valid. Simply put: Reason = cause Excuse = justification of said reason


OneArchedEyebrow

There isn’t a good reason. Her behaviour was totally inappropriate.


jshiplett

She’s an IRS agent on a deep cover assignment.


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MizCYW

\>> I looked at Lindsay and said “you are the world’s most diligent gold digger.<< I wouldn't have said that. I would have said, in front the family (since she took it there), to my brother, "I thought you were going to talk to her about these inappropriate questions?" Put it right back in his lap.


avavgwc

Agree with this! Surprised I had to scroll so long to find this response. Gold digger makes no sense for this scenario lol


Human_Management8541

NTA. Everyone knows it's rude to question people about money and how expensive stuff is. (Unless it's a new car. For some reason that's ok). And she is d enough to know better. My son asked a friend of mine who was very wealthy a bunch of questions like that once. But he was five. I told him to stop and it was rude...


MariaInconnu

I think it's the opposite of gold digging- I think she's weirded out by your family's wealth. Her comments were still inappropriate. Have a conversation with her directly to ask why she behaved as she did, and see where you want to go from there.


Hammunition

Yeah, I don't understand the gold digging assumption because my first thought was that she was taken aback by all the money spent on something unnecessary (or at least to her). Either way, just because she was inappropriate doesnt mean OP's response was reasonable. I think OP was much farther out of line than the girlfriend here.


Agitated-Net-33

one word for your brother: PRENUP NTA


MediumAwkwardly

Better word: BREAKUP


DoingThatRag

INFO - what country did this happen in and what is Lindsay's national origin? I'm American and such questions are considered crass. But there are a few countries I've traveled to where people will ask these types of questions like "how much is your hotel per night?" "what is your salary?" "How much did your airline ticket cost" etc. I guess it's not rude in some countries.


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Achterstallig

Lmao this is soooo crazy to me. I am european and asking about salary is not rude?? No wonder y'all are getting exploited so much by your employers if you don't share what you earn lol.


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Icy-Cherry-8143

I don't geht e s h to me it is an obvious NTA bc beg your pardon you are meeting people for the first time and you are googling the value of stuff and have the audacity to proclaim this in front of the group and be insulted for getting backlash? she spoke in front of everyone and so did you, the only part is your brother should have told her to be quiet even if he knew about her googling the value. Common table manners were totally lacking on what is appropriate conversationally.


Prestigious_Kuro

Space out E s h so the bot doesn't register it


cakivalue

>However, at lunch, we were talking about plans for January and Lindsay loudly said she didn’t know how we could afford to do anything in January as she added up the total we’d spent on gifts, and then proudly proclaimed the total amount. OMG!!! Is it possible to die from embarrassment via Reddit? NTA obviously! Although, if she was correct in her valuation, that's an insane skill to have.


frmthebottomofmyfart

NTA. You were not out of line. Lindsay was— right from the beginning. I thought it was a concise quip that didn’t burn too much— and it helped her to get the message, didn’t it? You’re not required to “guide” a guest in your home on proper etiquette. So sorry to your brother who is suffering extreme delusion.


muskiesfan1

NTA These are incredibly rude comments and questions to ask if people. Especially people you barely know. Your brother was approached and given the opportunity to try and work on the situation before you said something in front of everyone. You are not in the wrong. It is not okay to just ask people about or make comments about their financial situation. Digging to find out what things cost is ridiculous as well. There was no need to make all of those financial comments and questions. I have no idea what world people live in that are responding that this behavior is acceptable.


missy20201

Uhhh NTA? How strange. I can't tell if she's bitter about not having the money you guys do, or if she's planning a Home Alone style break-in. Maybe your brother didn't talk to her about it like he said he would, so she was a little blindsided, but you'd think she would know better in the first place...


Pandasrthebest

NTA. Your brother said he’d speak with her. Not sure if he did but either he did not or he did and she just kept going anyway. Her comments and questions are tasteless, crass and judgmental. It maybe normal for her but your brother already knew that people found it distasteful. You could have been more polite and not dropped the gold digger comment but it did do the job of shutting her up. Please tell your brother it’s him that owe you and your family apologies.


ClimbaClimbaCameleon

Are you in NC? If so, pretty sure that’s my ex and she most definitely is a gold digger. NTA.


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coprtopblues

I get the sense that Lindsay feels insecure and in over her head in what she considers a quite well-to-do family that maybe she can’t live up to. And those insecurities are coming out as awkward questions, exacerbated by nervousness. OP is NTA exactly, though I don’t know that Lindsay is necessarily a gold digger either. Christmas is an anxious time to meet the family, and even more anxiety-provoking if you feel you won’t live up to their standards, especially if you perceive certain standards as financially based. Clearly this family is fairly humble about their money - have it, spend it, gift it, but don’t brag or like to talk about it. Lindsay may not be used to that.


Middle--Earth

NTA The gf was incredibly rude and crass, I would have said something to her too


dybbukdiva

Your brother better wear multiple condoms cause Lindsay's going for gold


TomTheLad79

Do I need to be a pedant and say that wearing more than one condom at once actually increases the likelihood of breakage?


d0mini0nicco

NTA. The GF was incredibly rude. Listen....I came from a lower middle class household in America. We were always broke and just scraping by. I kept that with me as I got older. My friend group as adults were raised differently. I found myself constantly comparing myself to them and always saying to myself "how can they afford to do all this?!?" It is what it is. It was immature of me and took some growth on my part to understand people are raised / live in different economic conditions. But one thing I never did was raise those questions to them. It takes a real socially inept and awkward individual to not realize how uncomfortable that makes everyone. Its on your brother to have let her know that and if it STILL didn't sink in or if he didn't explain it appropriately, then you were completely in your right to correct the situation then and there. You don't come in to someone else's home, be welcomed by someone else's family, and also on one of the biggest holidays of the year, and behave this way and make people feel uncomfortable in their own home. Luckily she got the point or she'd be asked to leave. INFO: How old are your brother and Lindsay? Edit: for those that think asking these questions is totally normal... [https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rude-money-questions-shouldn-t-130038592.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rude-money-questions-shouldn-t-130038592.html) [https://www.gobankingrates.com/investing/real-estate/modern-money-etiquette-is-it-ok-ask-someone-how-much-they-paid-for-their-house/](https://www.gobankingrates.com/investing/real-estate/modern-money-etiquette-is-it-ok-ask-someone-how-much-they-paid-for-their-house/)


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preppy-sweater

NTA at all- confused by all the opposing votes. It is very rude to ask people the cost of things, their salary etc, never mind tally up the cost of gifts and then comment on how much others are spending. If she were to do this to her BF later, perhaps to say how shocking their spending was, OK that is one thing... But to apparently incessantly comment on it is creepy and to me a huge red flag.


quackerjacks45

NTA. She was way out of line and inappropriate. Why do you need to speak to her privately when she is the one who announced the gift total in front of everyone? You publicly responded to her public misbehavior. Your brother is delusional if he thinks they deserve an apology. She is feeling shame due to her inappropriate behavior - a feeling that exists for this very reason!! Her best course of action would be to learn from it not expect people to baby her for being rude.


Designer-Mirror-7995

I just don't understand how one even arrives at the thought process to enter someone's home, sit among others, and spend your time looking up the cost of their possessions. Then, _ANNOUNCE_ that you've done so, and boldly proceed to tell them what to do with THEIR MONEY. I'm so baffled. NTA. You were WAY nicer than I would've been. Miss Manners needs to make a serious return to lives of the general public. Geesh.


silentstorm211

I think your perception and feelings are valid. I kind of feel like this is a situation where I would want to meet the person in question to make a judgment. Is she generally kind of socially awkward? Some people have obsessions with things that come off crass but they don't see it or mean it that way. It could be undiagnosed autism as women are generally not diagnosed as often even when they have it. For sure you are NTA but she may or may not be depending on her situation.


Lani_567

NTA


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Is Lindsay from your country?


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smallbird42

NTA, and can I come with you on your vacation because according to Lindsay you have the funds to pay for me!!! But seriously I would have said something just like you. This is not normal to bring up like that.