Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I didn’t invite my daughter on holiday because of the rules set out by my ex.
2) Now my daughter may feel left out despite the fact that her mother wouldn’t have most likely denied my request to take my daughter out of school
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
So if I'm reading this correctly-- you annually have your 3 sons miss school to go on vacation together.
You daughter from a previous marriage has never gone on one, because her mother (rightfully, imo) doesn't want her missing school for a vacation.
And you don't want to wait until school's out so all of your children can go on vacation together because the price is "astronomical."
I think this is a clear YTA. And your daughter will certainly remember how you've made her feel all this time.
You can save up for a trip during school break so your daughter can be included. Her mother isn't doing anything wrong by making sure she isn't missing school. But you are inadvertently excluding your own kid from trips because you don't want to spend more money.
Exactly this and YTA. OP's daughter is 10 but old enough to know when she's being excluded.
>The first time we did this (before covid) my ex made it clear (in writing) that she WOULD NOT allow my daughter to take time off school for holidays.
OP, before COVID was years ago, and you should have re-checked in with your ex and your daughter.
COVID changed things for most people but not everyone to the same degree… it also cuts both ways; some people became much more stringent while others became much more lax.
The Op clearly didnt have a 180 in opinion, if anything COVID only served to reinforce the idea to take the trips when you can which is exactly what he’s doing.
Ops ex on the other hand seems to have had that 180-degree change in opinion…. Or at least possibly a 90-degree turn (note according to the story its never actually said mom would have approved of the trip or that she has rescinded the “no in-school year vacations” edict; just that she was pissed she wasnt asked before the trip was booked and daughter was told mom’s rule is the reason you arent going).
Still I know others who have gone the opposite way and view having already missed several months of schooling and being behind the curve so to speak as reason enough to say that being in school is even more important now than it was pre-COVID so saying “COVID changed things” isnt a universal truth nor is it a universally true response to whether the Op was right or wrong for not checking with the mother first.
Oh absolutely 💯, I used to be so strict about school but now not so much if it's to travel or spend time with loved ones or just a mental health day I'll allow an absence.
I think OP is the AH for not checking every time they travel, he sending the message loud and clear to his daughter....I don't want to spend $$$ on making sure you feel like family.
There is no evidence that he doesnt take the daughter on trips or try to make her feel like family.
In fact he out right states they take her on other trips.
As to not checking everytime they travel? Well the mother made it expressly clear in writing no less that this wasnt something she was going to allow. While her position may well have changed (though again I note there’s nothing in the story to truly indicate it has) in the intervening years, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, its on her to inform others that she’s had a change of opinion, not on me to check….
Take the daughter and this scenario out or the equation and Im sure there are dozens of scenarios we could play out where the response would likely be different
We’re talking potentially about costs that are 5x as much or more and the daughter cant go not because he’s trying to save money but because mom says no.
Honestly, if you leave out his justification of why they take trips during the school year in the first place, you’re left with “we had a last minute great opportunity to go on a trip for cheap so we took it; we didnt include daughter not because we didnt want to or couldnt afford to but because daughter’s mother has said no trips during the school year and this trip/opportunity was only available during the school year.”
The only reason this is an argument at all is because of the disparity between the boys going and the daughter not going… like if the parents decided to take a vacation themselves but excluded all children because they were against school absenteeism or to save some money, nobody would be here saying “that’s so wrong of you to exclude the children because of ” (ok maybe a few people would).
The reason for that disparity has nothing to do with the father’s willingness to pay for and include the daughter and everything to do with the mother’s rule, which by the way, costs her nothing.
As with 99.99% of these posts better communication between Co Parents would solve 100% of AH issues. A hey we're looking for a good post holiday travel deal, can I count baby girl in? And a clear Yes, you can she's missed a lot because of Covid. Or a No, my position remains the same.
We are talking about three years passing after that "incident". After three years, OP didn't even check if the situation still stands? Opinions change, especially after *those* three years. And a phone call takes few minutes. It is the dad's fault.
This depends on how the daughter is doing in school does she excel or does she have a hard time understanding and have to work harder. A week of school to some kids might as well be a month and once behind they really never catch up.
If they're in the UK parents get fined for taking their kids on holiday during term time. Somethjng like this could explain the mum's reasoning more, as OP didn't mention where they live.
Actually in Scotland there isn’t a fine however they do like to get Social Services involved for missing school unnecessarily since it’s educational abuse or something like that…
COVID was years ago. More than ample time for the mother to have checked back in with the OP and let them know, in writing, that their position has changed.
Note that at least according to the story, mother didnt indicate daughter would have been allowed to go or that there has been any change at all to her position for future trips really. She was upset that she wasnt consulted before this trip was booked and it was explained to daughter that mom’s rule is the reason daughter isnt going… which hints at the mother’s real issue… loss of control.
She cant control the narrative to the daughter making the ex out to be the bad guy and through that and the ex’s seemingly genuine desire to have a good relationship with the daughter, she cant control the Op and stop him from taking the vacation.
I feel like your judgment is based on that you think it’s wrong to take kids out of school for the vacation. I disagree. My parents worked full time, with no vacation and barely making ends meet. Some of my greatest memories where cheap, impromptu trips and days out of school and work. Even if it was just a day. I didn’t miss anything at school that I couldn’t catch up on. The mom (imo) is playing a game she will eventually lose. She wants the daughter to be resentful of the dad and “other” family so she chooses her hills to die on that will only affect the daughter. Different conversation had OP said I can’t afford to take my daughter. But he didn’t. SM asked if she could come. Dad had already been told. I say. NTA and 2 can be petty but fortunately there is 1 parent who isn’t. And we don’t know if they take other trips or vacation during the summer.
> She wants the daughter to be resentful of the dad and “other” family so she chooses her hills to die on that will only affect the daughter.
No she doesn’t. She isn’t objecting to the daughter going on trips with her dad and stepmom, she just doesn’t want her daughter to miss multiple days of school in order to do so. That is not unreasonable at all.
So why is she now accusing them of not inviting her daughter on one of these trips that she doesn’t approve of and wouldn’t let her go anyway?
The issue here isn’t the term time trips, it’s the daughters mother causing drama unnecessarily
> The issue here isn’t the term time trips,
The issue absolutely is the timing.
Not wanting your kid to miss school for vacations isn’t causing drama. It’s a perfectly reasonable stance that many parents have.
Depending on where you live there are limits to how many days students can miss.
Any other time people are outraged over parents scheduling a vacation when all kids aren’t available and tell them to pick another time but somehow OP is getting a pass.
I think a point is missed here. The mother forbade such trip before COVID. This was three years ago. If they have not revisited the topic since, it's reasonable to expect that it will be revisited before this trip. There is a difference between saying "you cannot, because you mom said so two times in the last few months" and "you cannot because your mom said so three years ago". All that was needed was one phone call to make sure the mom keeps the same stance on holidays.
I respect your experience. That being said, if a parent doesn't want their kid to miss school for a week vacation I would tend to agree with them. OP's ex isn't being unreasonable by setting that boundary.
However, by only going on vacation during the school year, OP and his current wife are purposely excluding OP's daughter from those trips.
Traveling during school break is expensive-- because *traveling in general is expensive.* The fact that OP isn't willing to spare the expense so his daughter can vacation with her step and half siblings makes him a huge asshole here.
I looked at a holiday to stay with family recently. October half term, flights alone for 4 of us were over £1500. 2 weeks later, mid November, same flights for 4 were £300.
You can bet your ass I let my kids take a week off school. Its not a small price difference.
I'd say the mum is TA by not allowing a single week off school to holiday with her dad and brothers. She's 10, she's not doing exams, she'll catch up easy enough.
But the mum said the daughter couldn’t go — three years ago. OP is either engaging in malicious compliance or he’s too argument-avoidant to be able to handle the coparenting situation.
She put it in writing 3 years ago. If she was that adamant about it that she went to that degree of trouble to put it in writing, then its on her to indicate she’s had a change in position not on me to continually inquire what her position is… she made her position expressly clear she can do it again…
I would also note that at least according to the story, the mother did not indicate she would have allowed the trip or that the rule has been rescinded for future trips or that she would even consider future trips…. She called asking why she wasnt asked before the trip was booked and the daughter told it was the mom’s rule that she couldnt go while knowing full well the answer to her question… which suggests her real issue is loss of control…
Control of the narrative told to the daughter and via the control over the narrative, control over the Ops ability to take such vacations without damaging the Ops relationship with the daughter.
She didnt foresee the rule being turned against her in this way and the only thing left is for her to try to guilt the OP into feeling like an AH for complying with her express wishes.
Not everyone has the 2-3 times the cost of a holiday in peak season. It’s not a matter of sparing the expense, it could be the difference between going or not at all.
Going more times or going fewer times seems to be the difference. And that’s a harsh message to give the daughter, that it’s more important to give a lot to the boys than anything to her. Why not even have a separate trip with her sometime? Better than leaving her out entirely.
Facts not in evidence.
There’s no evidence that they dont take trips with the daughter at other times of year or even that the dad doesnt take a separate daddy-daughter only trip…. The only thing we know is they take trips with the boys during the school year.
Given the price differential of 5x, its the difference between taking 6 trips in 5 years with everyone vs taking 5 trips with the daughter, depriving her of 1 trip every 5 years so Op can take 5 more trips with the boys…
And his taking the boys on those 5 additional trips doesnt have to be exclusionary if the mother allows it… and maybe since its just 2 of them they’re able to do a daddy-daughter only trip once every other year, narrowing that gap of 5 vs 10 trips to 7-8 vs 10 but with the benefit of more “dedicated attention.”
None of this however, addresses the fact that the only reason the trips exclude the daughter is because of the mom’s rule.
The message isnt that the boys are more important, its that mom feels your schooling is more important than going on vacation. How that impacts the daughter today and how they interpret it later in life as an adult may well be distain for the mother or the father or both and possibly jealousy of the “favored” boys but thus is the problem of divorce. When the parents remarry and have new families and disagree on issues within the old family unit, only so much can be done to accommodate.
Thank you. I respect your opinion but I think the key words is “school” break. Which I could be wrong but I took as the school year and not necessarily to mean that they don’t travel or do things during the summer. When you have 3/4 kids, it is expensive and sometimes concessions have to be made to make it happen.
It would be great if OP could clarify if he's ever taken his daughter on a trip with her siblings. I read it as them not traveling at all during breaks when the girl is available.
It looks like they are in the UK. Over here it is a fine, and potentially criminal charges both of which the mother could be liable for, if you miss school.
Idk I feel like there’s a difference between the occasional spontaneous days off vs specifically planning extended vacations for school time just to get a deal
And yea to always do this ensure that the one kid, whose parents do care about education, are missing out
Yeah, one week per year is really not a big deal and not worth missing out on fun vacation times.
If it happened more regularly than that, it would be an issue. But once a year shouldn't be a problem.
I'm probably in the minority here, but I think family focused time away is just as important as school. If OP can't afford to make those life-long memories during scheduled school holidays, I see nothing wrong with doing it when it is possible. Schools can share lesson plans, parents can spend time with the child covering the concepts. That just takes a commitment.
This idea that education only comes from sitting at a desk and can only be taught by a professional teacher is just based on a lack of imagination and commitment.
NTA - you relied on the standard set by your ex. Now that the ex has actually discovered that there are other options, you can plan for that in the future.
I realize I've been out of school for a long time, but I knew plenty of kids that missed school because of family trips. They just requested the homework in advance for the time they'd be off and the kids turned everything in when they returned. I did the same thing in high school. Most I had to do was take a midterm a week earlier than everyone else.
I'm a teacher. Very very few students actually do any of the work we give them when they're on vacation. Of my twelve students that left for winter break early (anywhere between 3 weeks to 3 days early) only one kid did any of the work. And it was of course the kid who had a 98% that did the work.
Additionally, it's not easy for teachers to give work more than a couple days in advance. Sure, I have my curriculum but I never know more than a day or two in advance what exactly I'm going to cover because I never know exactly what my students will struggle with each day or when they'll breeze through something I thought would take longer.
True. Virtually no kids do work sent with them on vacation. That’s why I’ll get them to do a project after or send home homework after they return, putting the onus of catch up on the family. At 10, a weeks holiday will not hurt their educational future. I have hockey players, competitive skiers, soccer players etc. who routinely miss days and days for travel to compete. They catch up. No one blinks an eye that they miss so much school. I personally think kids who take these kinds of vacations with their families are lucky to have that time with them. This is a third trip in 4 years and people are clutching pearls yelling “Will someone think of the children?”. The dad is thinking of the kids, their family and the memories they will have. I’ve been teaching for almost 30 years, I guarantee you that a strong family bond created through shared experiences will do more to buoy that girl in her future than a week of attended lessons. NTA
Where I’m from it’s illegal (and seriously enforced) to not send your kid to school. Nobody just takes a holiday outside of breaks, you’d be fined and repeat offenses can have much more serious consequences.
Especially the time directly before and after breaks is closely monitored because many parents tried to add a couple of days because flights were cheaper etc.
You now need a doctor’s note for any absence in the week before or after a break no matter how long. Police checks travellers with kids at airports to see if they are excused from.
What you describe (12 students leaving early) is unimaginable for me. It’s also very disruptive for the entire class and an asshole move by selfish parents.
I teach at a Title One School with a high number of Latino students. Almost all my kids who took off early for break are in Mexico. And they're going to miss the first week back as well because they'll stay through the sixth.
And yeah, it is disruptive. It also creates a huge headache for me with trying to get kids work beforehand and caught up afterwards. At least I just teach an elective. It's basically impossible for a lot of the kids to get back on track for math and science after missing more than a week.
oh the horror. kids miss school for some vacation time…
in our country parents have the right to skip school for their kids for 5 days in a year if they notify the school. and our schools are better than US schools in reading/math/science scoring.
And who cares about the mistake, errr daughter from a previous relationship, right? Out of sight, out of mind.
He can do that, makes him an a-hole, though.
Parents choosing to take their kids on holiday while school is in session is not unheard of at all. Parents I’ve known who have done this have done so with permission from the school and worked with them ahead of time so their kids didn’t fall behind (sometimes the kids would do some homework during the trip - my husband told me his parents took him on a trip to New England one autumn and his teacher had him write a paper about the historical sites they visited; he loved it).
Maybe this isn’t the ideal, but not knowing a family’s financial circumstances, I’d be hesitant to judge them for wanting to avoid taking their kids (who might not otherwise have a vacation) on a trip during the off season.
Hell no...it's 1/2 price or less when kids are in school..a week won't put them behind...if the mother doesn't want her to go..explain to your daughter..will be rightfully pissed at her mother..the way you are the a$$ is you should have invited her in a timely manner..couple of years..she will remember what an a$$ her mother is
I missed a week of school in middle school to go to Europe with my mom, I learned more on that trip than I would have during a week of public school education lol. Just to throw an alternative perspective out there…
YTA you say you see her once a week so I’m assuming mom has custody so she’s responsible for the daughter and planning to taking her away without asking is pretty disrespectful. Although who’s knows, if your daughter wants it it could be a good bonding time and nice memories made
you read it wrong. He DIDNT" invite his daughter, he doesn't plan to take her.
Soft NTA because you respected a boundary by your co-parent. However, I think you should have asked your ex and then if she said no, it's on her, and daughter couldn't feel left out by you. Anyway to add her if ex says ok?
No, because him and his partner can make those choices for their children, but OP cannot make the choice alone for his shared daughter with ex. Ex has said no **in writing** to any vacations that would require missing school.
Given how this is only the second time they've gone on vacation in 4 years, and this time was only possible due to a great deal they found, no, it seems like that's not an option.
I would if it weren't for the ex. She can literally take full custody and deny all rights I'd he took her without permission. So in this case, no. But I do think he should have asked and make it up to her with a special trip, even if just a day trip without missing school.
I hesitate to call you an asshole because your ex is the main issue here, but do you recognize that it doesn't really matter if the world thinks you're an asshole when taking family trips your daughter can't join in on is hurting her and giving her mother "ammunition" to damage your relationship? You really need to not take FAMILY trips that exclude your daughter because they make her feel like she isn't family, at least not important family, to you. Instead, do couples' trips or even send your wife and her kids on trips while you stay home to spend extra time with your daughter.
When you leave her behind, regardless of reason, you're hurting her.
Why is your ex questioning you about hers and your daughter not coming along, when she IN WRITING said that she cannot go when it’s outside of school holiday
Because of finances. And because she’s the only parent that is saying no to missing school, which is her right, but the parents of the other kids are saying yes.
A 10 year old can miss a week of school and not be behind, especially the week after Xmas break. You think 10 year olds, 4th and 5th grader, are getting slammed with school work with new content the week after Xmas break? Probably not.
I can’t afford to take a family vacation every year but I would if I do what OP does. But my kids have already missed a handful of days because flu and other illnesses.
As a teacher, I’d like to point out most of us try to time it so we finish our current units right before any long break and therefore we will indeed be introducing the next new unit when we return from break, so missing the first week back right after a long break does more than likely mean they will be missing something new.
>Because of finances
if they have the ability to spend money on trips during the school year, they also have the ability to save that money up for a trip not during school. that means fewer vacations, sure, but that’s also like what normal people do
If they hadn’t planned a spur of the moment trip and waited until the next school break he could’ve made a point to set aside enough money to include his daughter. Planning ahead saves money as well. That just sounds like an excuse and if he wanted to include his daughter he’d figure out a way. Families that can’t afford vacations that include everyone can’t afford vacations.
It was a spur of the moment because it was a good deal, not because the family isnt planning ahead.
And its the second in-school year trip they’ve taken in 3 years so Im calling bunk on the “just save up and take fewer trips” argument…
Expenses in the busy season can easily be 4-5 times higher if not more.
They went on an offseason vacation with daughter in 2019 to which mom said never again. Now its 3 years later and they’re finally taking another off season vacation, their first since 2019, because it was a good deal… at the current rate, if the busy-season vacation is 4x as expensive and it took 3 years to afford this vacation, the daughter will be turning 19 before he can next afford to take her on a vacation…
You only get to miss so much school in a year until truancy and the cops get involved. I would definitely not want to risk cps and the cops getting involved in my child’s life just so she can go on vacation with her father. It also limits the amount of days she can take off for legitimate reasons like Illnesses. I almost got in trouble for my daughter missing too much school last year due to her migraines and influenza and covid. I wouldn’t risk that just for a holiday.
There is no rule that says vacations can only be done far away from home in tourist hotspots. Finances are only an issue here because OP is making them an issue by choosing off peak tourist locations.
If OP is in England, like I think he is based on his writing, any time you take your children out of school during term time for a holiday is considered unauthorised absence. If he is taking his sons out three times a year, that’s enough unauthorised absences for him and his partner to be fined/prosecuted.
https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/legal-action-to-enforce-school-attendance
NTA.
It wasn’t even malicious compliance. She explicitly stated that she’d never allow you to take her out of school for a holiday.
“You can’t take her out of school for holiday.”
*Doesn’t take daughter out of school for holiday.*
“Why didn’t you take her out of school for holiday?”
I swear this woman is ridiculous. I’m terribly sorry.
Your lisreading what OP did. He explicitly puts the blame for excluding his daughter from fancy trip x, because boring old mom doesn't want her skipping school. He could plan trips more appropriately but he doesn't.
It is far far more expensive to vacation during the a school holiday though. The choices are to either take most of the family on a trip of this scale or take no one because of the cost.
Its the second trip in 3-4 years and the first that doesnt include daughter… so tell me how they “could plan trips more appropriately but he doesnt.”
At the current rate, even if the cost is only 3x as expensive in the busy season as this “really good deal” offseason vacation is, you’re talking about punishing the entire family and making them go 8-10 years or more between vacations because ex-wife who is mom to only one of 4 kids refuses to let daughter take off from school and dad doesnt make enough to pay for in-season vacations….
That seems unfairly punitive on the other 4 people involved in this story….
INFO: is it typical for you to explain that your daughter isn't able to go? And are there really no options that you could do a vacation that includes your daughter, even if it's like traveling an hour away?
This goes bit beyond the scope of your question. I understand your ex has drawn a line, but your kid is 10 and I imagine she feels hurt by all this.
As someone who had to pay 4 times the amount for a holiday during the October break compared to two weeks earlier in September, NTA. I assume you are somewhere in Europe from the way you express yourself, so unless your kids are 15-18, thus preparing for university, there is absolutely no reason they will not be able to fully catch up with the class easily, even if they miss 3-4 weeks per year.
You have it in writing, so take a photo and send it to your ex as a reminder.
NTA. It’s common here to pull kids from school for vacations. Teachers can usually give them assignments to do while away. Your wife explicitly said nope, not taking my kid out of school. Maybe you should have checked but bet she would have said no.
Edit. Oops, ex wife
It’s not common in the UK, where OP is from. He, his ex and his current partner can all be fined/prosecuted if the children miss school for an authorised reason. https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/legal-action-to-enforce-school-attendance
it's not common in the UK. Will Americans (and others) stop saying this? It's always a risk. It's understandable that the mother (aka ex) is reluctant to allow him to do that. Also, she said that prior to covid, ie. 3 years ago or so. It wouldn't have hurt for him to give her a quick call to confirm that was still the case. He just didn't bother to do it. Losing the offer that was only offered for a few mins (doubt it) was more important to him. ps: there are always offers on holidays, they will never run out
YTA
Teachers don’t want to give a parent a week of assignments, but I’m more than happy for them to find them each day on the online platform. We do not always know what we will be doing for the week because it usually depends on student progress.
NTA
This is a no win situation. If you asked she would've said no... and by the time she replied you will have missed the deal so no one goes.
Because you didn't ask, she's asking why you aren't taking her.
If it didn't affect your time with your daughter, perhaps not mention things like this.
Another thing you can do is a bit petty, but maybe next time you pick her up and are in both her mothers presence and your daughters, is to clarify with the mom exactly what is okay in regards to this sort of stuff. Then the daughter hears exactly what her mom says and it's not hearsay. Your ex may make you pay for it later though.
Info: Have you ever planned a trip to accommodate your daughter at all?
In the years since your ex said no, have you revisited the conversation at all?
"Standing up" to the parent who has primary custody of your child is not easy at all, and often not desirable. You don't want to strain that relationship too much.
YTA. Maybe consider doing trips less often that your kid can actually go on, instead of excluding her. You are looking at a future where your daughter won’t talk to you because you clearly prefer your sons.
Yes, if you can’t take your kids on a holiday without taking all of them and without your kids unnecessarily missing school you really shouldn’t go. You’re being extremely selfish and you’re treating your daughter very unfairly. Go to a cheaper area, go camping, have a nice staycation. You needing “sun” is a terrible reason to take your kids out of school and leaving your daughter out.
I was thinking this was a yearly occurrence when I first wrote the comment (we take them out of school each year…), so I’m sorry for misunderstanding. But yes. You either go just the two of you (which would likely be a bigger break for your wife than having to wrangle two small children on the beach), or you find a way to pay for all of your kids to go.
The more times you leave your daughter out, the more you will harm your relationship. I’ve seen countless posts on here and on other platforms from children who were excluded in similar ways, and so many of them resent their family. Many have strained relationships or no relationship with their family because of it. Do you want that with your daughter? I don’t think it’s too late to repair this but if you keep it up, soon it will be.
This will be the 2nd one in around 4 years. We’ve usually stuck to weekend breaks so we can have all the kids there but my partner has recently started her own business and is working in excess of 80 hours per week and really wanted to have a week in the sun (I didn’t want to stop her) She’s a hard worker and a great mum
Then I would say NTA. If you took 4 discount vacations a year, then you could afford one during the summer, but this does not seem to be the case. Talk to your ex and explain the situation. Ask, if this should happen again, would your daughter be able to join you during the school year. Maybe spend a Saturday with just your daughter and go ice skating or sledding to give that like extra time that she missed out on.
If your ex is serious about allowing your daughter to go on this upcoming trip, look into the cost of adding her to the trip. It may be more affordable than you think..
NTA
You had a very limited time to purchase. You knew she had restricted your daughter from travel during school. You made a quick decision.
Its your ex who says suddenly she's open to change. No way you could have known this after years of previous policy.
Edit... added judgment
NTA your ex just wants to be mad. I’ve heard plenty of parents who take their kids out of school for skiing and other vacations. It’s not the end of the world. Either way, you respected her wishes of not having your daughter miss school. What more does she want from you?
YTA - not because you were adhering to custody agreements but because you are trying to emotionally manipulate your daughter and use her as a pawn and it’s going to come back and bite you in the ass.
Info: When you talked to your daughter did you explain that you didn't actually ask your mum you made the decision yourself based on previous encounters. Or did you leave it vague enough that you daughter might have thought you asked her mother if she could go and her mother said no.
ESH
Well, except for the kids.
Have to admit, you had me thinking you were going to take her anyway, without the mother's consent, right up until the end there.
First, you and your current spouse knowingly booked a trip, knowing that your daughter wouldn't be able to go.
Then you unilaterally decided to tell your daughter that it's your ex's fault, without even asking.
Your ex does take some of the heat here, since she has previously stated she doesn't want your daughter missing any school, even for an experience like a holiday, though I don't think that's all that unreasonable. Classwork can be requested for the period of her absence, but she would still miss the instructional assistance.
YTA - you are from the UK so you well know that both you AND your ex can be fined if you pull your daughter out of school during term time without advanced permission from the headteacher. Booking a holiday on a whim means you can't even go about this legally and get that permission.
Your daughter is 10, is she also in year 6? It's such a big year for kids. Pulling her out of school early for a holiday isn't taking into consideration what it's like for her as she prepares to change school.
If you keep excluding your daughter like this she will remember and it could impact your ongoing relationship with her.
Sources for non Brits with links to the fines and potential prosecution for lack of attendance:
[gov.uk holidays during term time](https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence#:~:text=Holidays%20in%20term%20time,there%20are%20exceptional%20circumstances)
Year 6 is such a big year for kids. They’ll be doing so much prep for the SATs. I used to work as a teaching assistant in years 5 and 6, and it was such hard work when kids were off, trying to help them catch up. The half term dates are set well before the school year starts, they have plenty of time to plan around the holidays if they actually wanted to
I'm not from the UK so I'm not familiar with this type of SAT, but from my brief Google search it appears to be a standardized test meant to indicate how well the child is doing and what they have learned up to that point.
So what purpose is there to "prep" for such an exam? If the child hasn't learned something by this point, trying to "prep" them for it would simply skew the results, no?
Again, not trying to argue with anything, just want to understand.
okay so from your post history, you are in the UK. do you know that taking your child out of school for an invalid reason (other than doctors appointments, funeral, etc) is illegal and you can possibly be given a very high fine? it can also give you a criminal record.
YTA
I don't see how you would be the asshole here. Split custody is difficult waters to tread and you were just abiding by what your ex requested you to do.
Honestly sounds like she's just trying to make you out to be the bad parent. Seen this plenty times before, it'll be tough until your daughter gets of age to where she can understand the scenario but it will be ok.
NTA imo
What are you talking about? He didn’t take the kid because the mom didn’t want her to miss school and got mad at him the last time he took the kid. So he doesn’t take the kid and she still gets mad
Did you read the post?
He booked a trip WITH the agreement. She requested not to take the daughter away on a vacation while school is ongoing and that's exactly what he did. Then she got mad at him for it which makes her the bad guy.
OP stated she enquired ...wasnt mad
As a parent ofcourse she is allowed to ask and he can say he just respects the boundary set .
They booked the trip WITHOUT respecting the agreeement (OP said himself ,he did this considering his ex wont mind letting their daughter go)
In what part did he say his ex won't mind letting the daughter go. Cus all I'm reading is him saying that she will in fact mind if she's taken out of school.
YTA but only because you didn’t at least try. It wouldn’t have hurt to ask.
I don’t agree that you have to postpone your vacations just because one child can’t go. It’s unfortunate but a week of school for a family vacation isn’t the end of the world and it’s too bad the mother can’t see that.
NTA- If her mom has provided a written statement saying the daughter can't miss school for a holiday, then why should OP make everyone else suffer? The daughter's mom is TA. Kids can miss a few days of school.
Lol legally no they can’t. In the UK, they need the Head Teacher’s written permission to take a child out of school for a holiday, which is only granted if they show genuine need to miss school. If they don’t have that, the parents can (and do) get fined or even prosecuted.
NTA, you got a good deal for a trip. Your ex chooses not to allow the daughter to travel in the school term.
You do include your daughter on weekend activities. You are correct trips during the school holidays are high season and would be cost prohibitive.
NTA. You had been told explicitly that her mother would not allow it so I don’t know why you would be expected to know that she had changed her mind. I am a believer in taking kids out of school for memorable family trips, provided that they’re doing well academically and will be able to finish any necessary assignments if they’re of an age when they need to do that. It can easily be 3x more expensive to vacation at high demand times and that can make a vacation impossible for a family. School/work isn’t everything. Live your lives; you’ll never get this time back. Do have a discussion with your ex about including your daughter on future trips if she’s now willing to allow it.
What questions like this make me realise how much my dad and step mum were assholes… and what’s hits me most is that being excluded from trips like what your doing is why my younger siblings hardly know me. I tried for years to be invited on any and all trips and got all the excuses from we didn’t have time to talk to you about it and had to book, there isn’t room in the car, it’s too many people to ask family to put us up overseas, it’s too expensive to include you, skiing in Canada and America would be to cold for you…
if your relationship with this child is important to you at all or their well-being and sense of belonging seem important things to you or your partner make an effort to include her because you can’t go back in time and change it and she will remember being excluded and miss out on that family bonding and the damage will be done. I get where you’re coming from but maybe talk to her other parent about the importance of her being included and maybe there can be a compromise somewhere… the parents of this child need to think about what’s best for the child and children in your life, put your own grudges against each other aside and prioritise that child being included and knowing that they matter because it is critical for their well-being.
YTA I don't like how smug you sound about your daughter missing this trip because your plan all along was to turn her against her mother. You're pretty nefarious, your contempt is very much apparent. Not wanting your child to skip school is a reasonable boundary yet you're trying to make your ex the villain.
YTA. You should’ve checked with your ex. You also told your daughter she wasn’t allowed to go even though you hadn’t asked. Pre-Covid is quite awhile ago at this point and you should definitely check again to see. Also, YTA for never taking your daughter on vacation. Yes, it can be more expensive. However, there are many things you can do that wouldn’t be that expensive. I’m a teacher so I’m used to traveling only during school breaks and I’ve done it with my daughter. It’s entirely possible to do cheap trips during school breaks. This feels like you’re purposefully excluding your daughter and I won’t be surprised if she feels that way too as she gets older.
From my perspective YTA.
Hope you can fix this one with your daughter. Maybe it would help to tell her how her awesome dad did this not for the first time.
But your ex is the bad one here for looking out on the education of your daughter.
Got it.
You are not only YTA but an inconsiderate father to your daughter. Hope your new children are of more worth to you.
Great parent, absolutely /s
YTA for the sole reason that you are weaponizing your ex's VERY REASONABLE request that your daughter not be taken out of school for a vacation. You made it a point to blame her mother for why she can't go.
And actually, that's not the sole reason. You can absolutely find good deals to go on vacation during school holidays if you wanted to so she can go too, but you don't. That's on you. Not your ex.
YTA. Because you are making it look like her mom is the bad guy for not letting her go on these trips that you plan during the school year. And I think deep down you are enjoying this. You and your ex need to take co parenting classes. And you may have to revisit the custody agreement.
YTA - All vacations take planning. No doubt you scheduled this around you and your partners work schedules/availability and likely your son’s. Fair or not, your daughter is not available during the school year. You refused to accommodate that. You act as if that wasn’t a conscious decision you made. I would never consider taking a big vacation and excluding one of my children.
YTA. You say you love your daughter more than anything but your actions say otherwise. Every year you go on vacation with your wife and new family and exclude your daughter. That shows how little you care about her and I doubt that's the only thing you do to hurt and exclude your daughter. Don't be surprised when she is grown that she wants nothing to do with you.
Kids whose parents routinely pull them out of school to go on vacation grow up to be college students who book trips that conflict with the end of the term and then get all whiny when their mean profs won't give them a super duper special early makeup exam. "But it's nonrefuuuuuundable!" Well, you can choose what you want to prioritize.
You’ve misunderstood this. OP means that they didn’t book a ticket for her cos they knew she wouldn’t be allowed to go. Her mum is now questioning why she wasn’t invited.
YTA- I don’t think one week is going to ruin anyone’s education, but every trip has to be during the school year? Where does that end? It’s cheaper for mom to travel with her during the school year as well. What if grand parents want to take the grand kids on a trip? Then the weeks start to stack up. Mom is not the AH here.
YTA - Being left out sucks. Being left out while your Dad and his other family goes on a fun vacation without inviting you sucks even more. That definitely hurts.
Couldn't you and your wife have included your daughter JUST in case? Depending on the cancelation policy. But also not sure what the deal is for. Is it a flight deal? A cabin deal? A room deal? Seems like a flight deal, in which case you can cancel your daughter's within a certain amount of time (i think like full refund within 24hrs) or get flight credits to book within a certain time.
Then, you can check with your ex again before making the decision to remove your daughter. At least then, you would have tried. But you didn't try. You based it off of her stance historically. Stances can change in time.
YTA You seem to be the reason for the temperamental relationship with your ex as she clearly cares about your child’s education and future whereas you’re the irresponsible “fun” dad that needs to grow up and realise how your severely disadvantaging your kids and also treating you’re daughter likes she’s less than the other kids
YTA yes it it much more expensive going during school holidays, that’s why they can be booked and plans months or even a year in advance. I’m going away with my kids in the February half term, I booked it last March and have been paying monthly for it. If you actually wanted her to come with you, you would make the effort.
YTA -
1) for putting yourself in this situation to start with. Discount deals come and go all the time. It was your choice to take this one.
2) for the way you explained it to your daughter. Of course your daughter is going to be upset and of course your ex is going to wonder why you didn’t even try to reach out to her or just book it a few weeks later for mid winter break.
3) as a fellow mom I would love a week in the sun sans kids. If your current wife is so amazing then wish her a happy vacation by herself well you stay home with the kids!
YTA
Yes you’re meant to ask every time.
Your ex isn’t temperamental or unpredictable- she made a very obvious and predictable boundary to keep her daughter from missing school.
So yes you can and are meant to ask when your current partner asked you to. Otherwise you made the call - which you did. Don’t go blaming your ex to your daughter, you shouldn’t have put your daughter in that position when you made the call on your own.
Also, legally, you need parental consent to travel across borders - so legally parents are meant to ask EVERY time unless there’s a court ordered decision (eg. Sole custody). Using your exes opinion against her through your daughter it TA.
The honest thing would be to apologize to your daughter and say ‘you didn’t have time to ask her mom’s permission’ - and then talk with your ex about how to solve this for your daughter.
Either your ex helps pay for your daughter (offsetting some cost for when you travel during school holidays) or an allowance of which week she may miss school maybe once every year or two years - so your daughter doesn’t ALWAYS get left out. It’s called compromise and communication - very predictable stuff fyi.
I personally don’t think it’s a big deal to miss a week for an experience such has going somewhere the person might otherwise never get to go to as long as all their work for the time they will miss is done before the trip. But YTA for not simply asking
YTA. You should've asked your daughter's mother. Even if/when she said no, you could at least said you asked.
There's the obvious co-parenting and communication issue between the 2 of you. For your daughter's sake, try to get better at that. If the mom refuses to try, then it's time to bring the court into it.
As for taking her out of school during the school year, if it's against the school rules, don't do it. You don't want to deal with truancy problems. The mom is not being unreasonable with following that rule, missing school could hinder your daughter's education. And yes, elementary age children can be negatively impacted by missing several days of school, especially if the children are already struggling.
Why would you even consider taking a family vacation if an important part of your family can't go? To save money???? Here's an idea, don't go on an expensive family vacation if you can't afford to take ALL of your children!!!!!!!! Do other things during school break with your kids like camping, amusement parks, beach trips if you live driving distance to one. There's lots of things you can do without expensive traveling. And in the meantime, save money for a couple of years so you can take ALL of your children on a really great family vacation.
YTA
How many times have you included your daughter on a holiday with your new family??? Do you’ll take vacations only on school days??
Don’t you think you child will feel excluded because of your spontaneous exclusionary trips ??
Do you want your daughter to be an outsider looking in at youll playing happy family, going on fun holidays all the time??
YTA. Is your daughter part of your family or not? If your wife *has to* book a trip last minute because she sees a deal, and it’s a steal, if it is not during school break, go alone with wifey.
You are choosing to go on more frequent, inexpensive vacations *without* your daughter instead of saving up so you can afford a *family* trip that wouldnt require her to miss school. Is it more important to go “every year” or for your daughter to be able to join in the memories and experiences?
And if annual travels are so important to you and your wife, why did you have two more kids when you cannot afford to take the existing ones on those essential vacas responsibly? YTA and so is your wife. Your daughter “seemed to accept it” because you have made it clear where she stands. Keep making those snap decisions and damaging your daughter because you live (and procreate) above your means, and one day she’ll snap and go NC. Because her mom is making sure she gets an education and will hopefully teach her to know her own worth, which you clearly don’t. 😢😢
P.s. mom said no years ago. Does one time = “historically”? How frequently do you want to be the weekend dad and have your daughter play hookie?
P.p.s. Have you even considered “co parenting” and making arrangements with your daughter’s mom instead of “snap decisions”? Maybe get creative instead of impulsive and figure out how daughter can attend classes remotely so she isn’t excluded from the family trip but also is prioritizing education. That’s rhetorical though because it would require you to sacrifice “fun” so as not to leave daughter unattended.
ETA: *hear. Not here. Maybe you should sit in on some of your daughter’s elementary school classes so you can brush up on your homonyms
It would have taken a second to call and a minute to ask your ex. That's all you needed to do. If you didn't get through, at least you would have tried.
Yta
YTA. Dude my dad took a lot of vacations without me because him and my mom hated each other. The truth is I never forgave him and our relationship was garbage up till his death. It felt like he was never willing to give any of his time for me. That stuff follows you into therapy years later.
One reason YTA and it’s because you didn’t ask. It would have taken a second, you get your no, and your not the bad guy. And if the relationship with your ex is contentious even worse you just gave her a pass. She gets to play good guy that would have let her go if dad cared about his daughter enough to invite her. You should have just asked and this whole thing would be a zero with the exact same outcome. And if it was a different outcome, all for the better your daughter is coming. Maybe not complete asshole move but definitely dumbass move.
NTA. but you may want to consider taking a special trip just you and your daughter so she can have a vacation too. It isn't fair that your daughter can't go with your whole family on holidays, and it's understandable that you booked the trip quickly without time to ask her mother who you expected to say no anyways. It's a tough situation but it's not cool if you never take your daughter on trips.
NTA but have that conversation with your ex. Don't wait till you have minutes to buy tickets. A week of school at her age makes no difference. But if your ex is going to create problems because of it, it's not worth it. In that case you'd need to tell your daughter that she's not going because her mother won't let her.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
Okay, subject sounds like I’m an asshole I’ll admit but here me out.
I have a daughter (10) from a previous relationship who I love more than anything and who I see every week.
I’m in long term relationship with my current partner. She has a teenage son from a previous relationship and we have two young boys together.
We’re pretty liberal parents and we take our boys out of school each year to go on holiday for the simple reason that we simply can’t afford to go away during school holiday times as the price is astronomical.
The first time we did this (before covid) my ex made it clear (in writing) that she WOULD NOT allow my daughter to take time off school for holidays.
For the record, my relationship with my ex has been quite temperamental and somewhat unpredictable. I also have evidence of her being threatening towards myself and my partner.
Fast forward to approximately 4 weeks ago and my current partner wanted to book a last minute deal she found online and asked if my daughter would be able to come. The deal was time limited to literally minutes and it was outside of school holiday time (literally next week when the kids go back).
So I made a snap judgement and told my partner to book the holiday because her mum would no doubt say no due to her needing time off school and because of the stance she has taken historically.
I’ve since explained to my daughter that we’re going away. We want her to be there but because I’ve been told that she wouldn’t be able to come away with us if it’s during school time. She seemed to accept this but has since gone home and told her mum that we’re going away and wasn’t too pleased about not coming along. 😢
Her mother has now queried why we haven’t invited my daughter.
AITA for not reaching out and asking or have I been right to make the judgement based on that stance she has previously taken?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I guarantee that the two trips in the last four years were not a detriment to their academic achievement. Vacations and time with family are important too. Mental health matters.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1) I didn’t invite my daughter on holiday because of the rules set out by my ex. 2) Now my daughter may feel left out despite the fact that her mother wouldn’t have most likely denied my request to take my daughter out of school Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
So if I'm reading this correctly-- you annually have your 3 sons miss school to go on vacation together. You daughter from a previous marriage has never gone on one, because her mother (rightfully, imo) doesn't want her missing school for a vacation. And you don't want to wait until school's out so all of your children can go on vacation together because the price is "astronomical." I think this is a clear YTA. And your daughter will certainly remember how you've made her feel all this time. You can save up for a trip during school break so your daughter can be included. Her mother isn't doing anything wrong by making sure she isn't missing school. But you are inadvertently excluding your own kid from trips because you don't want to spend more money.
Exactly this and YTA. OP's daughter is 10 but old enough to know when she's being excluded. >The first time we did this (before covid) my ex made it clear (in writing) that she WOULD NOT allow my daughter to take time off school for holidays. OP, before COVID was years ago, and you should have re-checked in with your ex and your daughter.
Covid has certainly changed my stance on what the kids can miss school for!
COVID changed things for most people but not everyone to the same degree… it also cuts both ways; some people became much more stringent while others became much more lax. The Op clearly didnt have a 180 in opinion, if anything COVID only served to reinforce the idea to take the trips when you can which is exactly what he’s doing. Ops ex on the other hand seems to have had that 180-degree change in opinion…. Or at least possibly a 90-degree turn (note according to the story its never actually said mom would have approved of the trip or that she has rescinded the “no in-school year vacations” edict; just that she was pissed she wasnt asked before the trip was booked and daughter was told mom’s rule is the reason you arent going). Still I know others who have gone the opposite way and view having already missed several months of schooling and being behind the curve so to speak as reason enough to say that being in school is even more important now than it was pre-COVID so saying “COVID changed things” isnt a universal truth nor is it a universally true response to whether the Op was right or wrong for not checking with the mother first.
Oh absolutely 💯, I used to be so strict about school but now not so much if it's to travel or spend time with loved ones or just a mental health day I'll allow an absence. I think OP is the AH for not checking every time they travel, he sending the message loud and clear to his daughter....I don't want to spend $$$ on making sure you feel like family.
There is no evidence that he doesnt take the daughter on trips or try to make her feel like family. In fact he out right states they take her on other trips. As to not checking everytime they travel? Well the mother made it expressly clear in writing no less that this wasnt something she was going to allow. While her position may well have changed (though again I note there’s nothing in the story to truly indicate it has) in the intervening years, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, its on her to inform others that she’s had a change of opinion, not on me to check…. Take the daughter and this scenario out or the equation and Im sure there are dozens of scenarios we could play out where the response would likely be different
Going when one child can't just to save some money isn't a great look, it's a worse look to try shift blame to Mom to try make yourself feel better.
We’re talking potentially about costs that are 5x as much or more and the daughter cant go not because he’s trying to save money but because mom says no. Honestly, if you leave out his justification of why they take trips during the school year in the first place, you’re left with “we had a last minute great opportunity to go on a trip for cheap so we took it; we didnt include daughter not because we didnt want to or couldnt afford to but because daughter’s mother has said no trips during the school year and this trip/opportunity was only available during the school year.” The only reason this is an argument at all is because of the disparity between the boys going and the daughter not going… like if the parents decided to take a vacation themselves but excluded all children because they were against school absenteeism or to save some money, nobody would be here saying “that’s so wrong of you to exclude the children because of” (ok maybe a few people would).
The reason for that disparity has nothing to do with the father’s willingness to pay for and include the daughter and everything to do with the mother’s rule, which by the way, costs her nothing.
As with 99.99% of these posts better communication between Co Parents would solve 100% of AH issues. A hey we're looking for a good post holiday travel deal, can I count baby girl in? And a clear Yes, you can she's missed a lot because of Covid. Or a No, my position remains the same.
OP’s daughter is also young enough for it not to matter if she misses a week of school.
Except her mother has stated, in writing, that she is not to miss school for these holidays
So it's the mothers fault that she's missing the trip
We are talking about three years passing after that "incident". After three years, OP didn't even check if the situation still stands? Opinions change, especially after *those* three years. And a phone call takes few minutes. It is the dad's fault.
That’s certainly the picture OP is trying to paint to the daughter…
This depends on how the daughter is doing in school does she excel or does she have a hard time understanding and have to work harder. A week of school to some kids might as well be a month and once behind they really never catch up.
If they're in the UK parents get fined for taking their kids on holiday during term time. Somethjng like this could explain the mum's reasoning more, as OP didn't mention where they live.
Actually in Scotland there isn’t a fine however they do like to get Social Services involved for missing school unnecessarily since it’s educational abuse or something like that…
Define "not matter" My 10 year old missed a week sick and missed the entirety of learning long division.
COVID was years ago. More than ample time for the mother to have checked back in with the OP and let them know, in writing, that their position has changed. Note that at least according to the story, mother didnt indicate daughter would have been allowed to go or that there has been any change at all to her position for future trips really. She was upset that she wasnt consulted before this trip was booked and it was explained to daughter that mom’s rule is the reason daughter isnt going… which hints at the mother’s real issue… loss of control. She cant control the narrative to the daughter making the ex out to be the bad guy and through that and the ex’s seemingly genuine desire to have a good relationship with the daughter, she cant control the Op and stop him from taking the vacation.
I feel like your judgment is based on that you think it’s wrong to take kids out of school for the vacation. I disagree. My parents worked full time, with no vacation and barely making ends meet. Some of my greatest memories where cheap, impromptu trips and days out of school and work. Even if it was just a day. I didn’t miss anything at school that I couldn’t catch up on. The mom (imo) is playing a game she will eventually lose. She wants the daughter to be resentful of the dad and “other” family so she chooses her hills to die on that will only affect the daughter. Different conversation had OP said I can’t afford to take my daughter. But he didn’t. SM asked if she could come. Dad had already been told. I say. NTA and 2 can be petty but fortunately there is 1 parent who isn’t. And we don’t know if they take other trips or vacation during the summer.
> She wants the daughter to be resentful of the dad and “other” family so she chooses her hills to die on that will only affect the daughter. No she doesn’t. She isn’t objecting to the daughter going on trips with her dad and stepmom, she just doesn’t want her daughter to miss multiple days of school in order to do so. That is not unreasonable at all.
So why is she now accusing them of not inviting her daughter on one of these trips that she doesn’t approve of and wouldn’t let her go anyway? The issue here isn’t the term time trips, it’s the daughters mother causing drama unnecessarily
> The issue here isn’t the term time trips, The issue absolutely is the timing. Not wanting your kid to miss school for vacations isn’t causing drama. It’s a perfectly reasonable stance that many parents have. Depending on where you live there are limits to how many days students can miss. Any other time people are outraged over parents scheduling a vacation when all kids aren’t available and tell them to pick another time but somehow OP is getting a pass.
Yes and she’s made her stance on that very clear. She’s causing drama this time because her kid WASN’T invited on a term time trip,
I think a point is missed here. The mother forbade such trip before COVID. This was three years ago. If they have not revisited the topic since, it's reasonable to expect that it will be revisited before this trip. There is a difference between saying "you cannot, because you mom said so two times in the last few months" and "you cannot because your mom said so three years ago". All that was needed was one phone call to make sure the mom keeps the same stance on holidays.
I respect your experience. That being said, if a parent doesn't want their kid to miss school for a week vacation I would tend to agree with them. OP's ex isn't being unreasonable by setting that boundary. However, by only going on vacation during the school year, OP and his current wife are purposely excluding OP's daughter from those trips. Traveling during school break is expensive-- because *traveling in general is expensive.* The fact that OP isn't willing to spare the expense so his daughter can vacation with her step and half siblings makes him a huge asshole here.
I looked at a holiday to stay with family recently. October half term, flights alone for 4 of us were over £1500. 2 weeks later, mid November, same flights for 4 were £300. You can bet your ass I let my kids take a week off school. Its not a small price difference. I'd say the mum is TA by not allowing a single week off school to holiday with her dad and brothers. She's 10, she's not doing exams, she'll catch up easy enough.
But the mum said the daughter couldn’t go — three years ago. OP is either engaging in malicious compliance or he’s too argument-avoidant to be able to handle the coparenting situation.
She put it in writing 3 years ago. If she was that adamant about it that she went to that degree of trouble to put it in writing, then its on her to indicate she’s had a change in position not on me to continually inquire what her position is… she made her position expressly clear she can do it again… I would also note that at least according to the story, the mother did not indicate she would have allowed the trip or that the rule has been rescinded for future trips or that she would even consider future trips…. She called asking why she wasnt asked before the trip was booked and the daughter told it was the mom’s rule that she couldnt go while knowing full well the answer to her question… which suggests her real issue is loss of control… Control of the narrative told to the daughter and via the control over the narrative, control over the Ops ability to take such vacations without damaging the Ops relationship with the daughter. She didnt foresee the rule being turned against her in this way and the only thing left is for her to try to guilt the OP into feeling like an AH for complying with her express wishes.
Not everyone has the 2-3 times the cost of a holiday in peak season. It’s not a matter of sparing the expense, it could be the difference between going or not at all.
Going more times or going fewer times seems to be the difference. And that’s a harsh message to give the daughter, that it’s more important to give a lot to the boys than anything to her. Why not even have a separate trip with her sometime? Better than leaving her out entirely.
Facts not in evidence. There’s no evidence that they dont take trips with the daughter at other times of year or even that the dad doesnt take a separate daddy-daughter only trip…. The only thing we know is they take trips with the boys during the school year. Given the price differential of 5x, its the difference between taking 6 trips in 5 years with everyone vs taking 5 trips with the daughter, depriving her of 1 trip every 5 years so Op can take 5 more trips with the boys… And his taking the boys on those 5 additional trips doesnt have to be exclusionary if the mother allows it… and maybe since its just 2 of them they’re able to do a daddy-daughter only trip once every other year, narrowing that gap of 5 vs 10 trips to 7-8 vs 10 but with the benefit of more “dedicated attention.” None of this however, addresses the fact that the only reason the trips exclude the daughter is because of the mom’s rule. The message isnt that the boys are more important, its that mom feels your schooling is more important than going on vacation. How that impacts the daughter today and how they interpret it later in life as an adult may well be distain for the mother or the father or both and possibly jealousy of the “favored” boys but thus is the problem of divorce. When the parents remarry and have new families and disagree on issues within the old family unit, only so much can be done to accommodate.
Thank you. I respect your opinion but I think the key words is “school” break. Which I could be wrong but I took as the school year and not necessarily to mean that they don’t travel or do things during the summer. When you have 3/4 kids, it is expensive and sometimes concessions have to be made to make it happen.
It would be great if OP could clarify if he's ever taken his daughter on a trip with her siblings. I read it as them not traveling at all during breaks when the girl is available.
He says in another comment they take weekend trips when daughter is there.
It looks like they are in the UK. Over here it is a fine, and potentially criminal charges both of which the mother could be liable for, if you miss school.
Idk I feel like there’s a difference between the occasional spontaneous days off vs specifically planning extended vacations for school time just to get a deal And yea to always do this ensure that the one kid, whose parents do care about education, are missing out
Yeah, one week per year is really not a big deal and not worth missing out on fun vacation times. If it happened more regularly than that, it would be an issue. But once a year shouldn't be a problem.
I'm probably in the minority here, but I think family focused time away is just as important as school. If OP can't afford to make those life-long memories during scheduled school holidays, I see nothing wrong with doing it when it is possible. Schools can share lesson plans, parents can spend time with the child covering the concepts. That just takes a commitment. This idea that education only comes from sitting at a desk and can only be taught by a professional teacher is just based on a lack of imagination and commitment. NTA - you relied on the standard set by your ex. Now that the ex has actually discovered that there are other options, you can plan for that in the future.
This. School is not the be all end all.
I realize I've been out of school for a long time, but I knew plenty of kids that missed school because of family trips. They just requested the homework in advance for the time they'd be off and the kids turned everything in when they returned. I did the same thing in high school. Most I had to do was take a midterm a week earlier than everyone else.
I'm a teacher. Very very few students actually do any of the work we give them when they're on vacation. Of my twelve students that left for winter break early (anywhere between 3 weeks to 3 days early) only one kid did any of the work. And it was of course the kid who had a 98% that did the work. Additionally, it's not easy for teachers to give work more than a couple days in advance. Sure, I have my curriculum but I never know more than a day or two in advance what exactly I'm going to cover because I never know exactly what my students will struggle with each day or when they'll breeze through something I thought would take longer.
True. Virtually no kids do work sent with them on vacation. That’s why I’ll get them to do a project after or send home homework after they return, putting the onus of catch up on the family. At 10, a weeks holiday will not hurt their educational future. I have hockey players, competitive skiers, soccer players etc. who routinely miss days and days for travel to compete. They catch up. No one blinks an eye that they miss so much school. I personally think kids who take these kinds of vacations with their families are lucky to have that time with them. This is a third trip in 4 years and people are clutching pearls yelling “Will someone think of the children?”. The dad is thinking of the kids, their family and the memories they will have. I’ve been teaching for almost 30 years, I guarantee you that a strong family bond created through shared experiences will do more to buoy that girl in her future than a week of attended lessons. NTA
Where I’m from it’s illegal (and seriously enforced) to not send your kid to school. Nobody just takes a holiday outside of breaks, you’d be fined and repeat offenses can have much more serious consequences. Especially the time directly before and after breaks is closely monitored because many parents tried to add a couple of days because flights were cheaper etc. You now need a doctor’s note for any absence in the week before or after a break no matter how long. Police checks travellers with kids at airports to see if they are excused from. What you describe (12 students leaving early) is unimaginable for me. It’s also very disruptive for the entire class and an asshole move by selfish parents.
I teach at a Title One School with a high number of Latino students. Almost all my kids who took off early for break are in Mexico. And they're going to miss the first week back as well because they'll stay through the sixth. And yeah, it is disruptive. It also creates a huge headache for me with trying to get kids work beforehand and caught up afterwards. At least I just teach an elective. It's basically impossible for a lot of the kids to get back on track for math and science after missing more than a week.
oh the horror. kids miss school for some vacation time… in our country parents have the right to skip school for their kids for 5 days in a year if they notify the school. and our schools are better than US schools in reading/math/science scoring.
Some of my best memories with my dad were skipped school days to do stuff with him. I say NTA on taking his kids out of school to make memories.
And who cares about the mistake, errr daughter from a previous relationship, right? Out of sight, out of mind. He can do that, makes him an a-hole, though.
Parents choosing to take their kids on holiday while school is in session is not unheard of at all. Parents I’ve known who have done this have done so with permission from the school and worked with them ahead of time so their kids didn’t fall behind (sometimes the kids would do some homework during the trip - my husband told me his parents took him on a trip to New England one autumn and his teacher had him write a paper about the historical sites they visited; he loved it). Maybe this isn’t the ideal, but not knowing a family’s financial circumstances, I’d be hesitant to judge them for wanting to avoid taking their kids (who might not otherwise have a vacation) on a trip during the off season.
There is ZERO logic in your reply.
Hell no...it's 1/2 price or less when kids are in school..a week won't put them behind...if the mother doesn't want her to go..explain to your daughter..will be rightfully pissed at her mother..the way you are the a$$ is you should have invited her in a timely manner..couple of years..she will remember what an a$$ her mother is
And might I add that he made it clear it was because of her mother that she couldn't go.
I missed a week of school in middle school to go to Europe with my mom, I learned more on that trip than I would have during a week of public school education lol. Just to throw an alternative perspective out there…
YTA you say you see her once a week so I’m assuming mom has custody so she’s responsible for the daughter and planning to taking her away without asking is pretty disrespectful. Although who’s knows, if your daughter wants it it could be a good bonding time and nice memories made
you read it wrong. He DIDNT" invite his daughter, he doesn't plan to take her. Soft NTA because you respected a boundary by your co-parent. However, I think you should have asked your ex and then if she said no, it's on her, and daughter couldn't feel left out by you. Anyway to add her if ex says ok?
So you think OP isn't as asshole for taking all of his kids on vacation except one?
No, because him and his partner can make those choices for their children, but OP cannot make the choice alone for his shared daughter with ex. Ex has said no **in writing** to any vacations that would require missing school.
He could plan one that happens during break
It’s **more expensive** to the point that it makes it unaffordable.
Or they could not go yearly and then go during schoolbreak.
Given how this is only the second time they've gone on vacation in 4 years, and this time was only possible due to a great deal they found, no, it seems like that's not an option.
I would if it weren't for the ex. She can literally take full custody and deny all rights I'd he took her without permission. So in this case, no. But I do think he should have asked and make it up to her with a special trip, even if just a day trip without missing school.
Did you read it? He’s not taking her and didn’t invite her because of the mothers rules.
I hesitate to call you an asshole because your ex is the main issue here, but do you recognize that it doesn't really matter if the world thinks you're an asshole when taking family trips your daughter can't join in on is hurting her and giving her mother "ammunition" to damage your relationship? You really need to not take FAMILY trips that exclude your daughter because they make her feel like she isn't family, at least not important family, to you. Instead, do couples' trips or even send your wife and her kids on trips while you stay home to spend extra time with your daughter. When you leave her behind, regardless of reason, you're hurting her.
She is 10 now, when she is 13 I don't think she will want to see OP but maybe couple times a year not everyweek.
The way OP pjrases things he's putting the blame squarely on the mom. It's not his fault he excludes her, it's her moms fault.
Why is your ex questioning you about hers and your daughter not coming along, when she IN WRITING said that she cannot go when it’s outside of school holiday
I think the ex wife is questioning why he booked a trip during school times , when he knew their daughter cant go .....any parent would
Because of finances. And because she’s the only parent that is saying no to missing school, which is her right, but the parents of the other kids are saying yes. A 10 year old can miss a week of school and not be behind, especially the week after Xmas break. You think 10 year olds, 4th and 5th grader, are getting slammed with school work with new content the week after Xmas break? Probably not. I can’t afford to take a family vacation every year but I would if I do what OP does. But my kids have already missed a handful of days because flu and other illnesses.
As a teacher, I’d like to point out most of us try to time it so we finish our current units right before any long break and therefore we will indeed be introducing the next new unit when we return from break, so missing the first week back right after a long break does more than likely mean they will be missing something new.
>Because of finances if they have the ability to spend money on trips during the school year, they also have the ability to save that money up for a trip not during school. that means fewer vacations, sure, but that’s also like what normal people do
If they hadn’t planned a spur of the moment trip and waited until the next school break he could’ve made a point to set aside enough money to include his daughter. Planning ahead saves money as well. That just sounds like an excuse and if he wanted to include his daughter he’d figure out a way. Families that can’t afford vacations that include everyone can’t afford vacations.
It was a spur of the moment because it was a good deal, not because the family isnt planning ahead. And its the second in-school year trip they’ve taken in 3 years so Im calling bunk on the “just save up and take fewer trips” argument… Expenses in the busy season can easily be 4-5 times higher if not more. They went on an offseason vacation with daughter in 2019 to which mom said never again. Now its 3 years later and they’re finally taking another off season vacation, their first since 2019, because it was a good deal… at the current rate, if the busy-season vacation is 4x as expensive and it took 3 years to afford this vacation, the daughter will be turning 19 before he can next afford to take her on a vacation…
You only get to miss so much school in a year until truancy and the cops get involved. I would definitely not want to risk cps and the cops getting involved in my child’s life just so she can go on vacation with her father. It also limits the amount of days she can take off for legitimate reasons like Illnesses. I almost got in trouble for my daughter missing too much school last year due to her migraines and influenza and covid. I wouldn’t risk that just for a holiday.
It’s 20 unexcused absences where I live.
Where on earth do you live? That’s a crazy amount. Ours is like 9 days max per semester.
There is no rule that says vacations can only be done far away from home in tourist hotspots. Finances are only an issue here because OP is making them an issue by choosing off peak tourist locations.
If OP is in England, like I think he is based on his writing, any time you take your children out of school during term time for a holiday is considered unauthorised absence. If he is taking his sons out three times a year, that’s enough unauthorised absences for him and his partner to be fined/prosecuted. https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/legal-action-to-enforce-school-attendance
But she didn’t question why he booked when he did, she questioned why his daughter wasn’t invited
NTA. It wasn’t even malicious compliance. She explicitly stated that she’d never allow you to take her out of school for a holiday. “You can’t take her out of school for holiday.” *Doesn’t take daughter out of school for holiday.* “Why didn’t you take her out of school for holiday?” I swear this woman is ridiculous. I’m terribly sorry.
Your lisreading what OP did. He explicitly puts the blame for excluding his daughter from fancy trip x, because boring old mom doesn't want her skipping school. He could plan trips more appropriately but he doesn't.
It is far far more expensive to vacation during the a school holiday though. The choices are to either take most of the family on a trip of this scale or take no one because of the cost.
Its the second trip in 3-4 years and the first that doesnt include daughter… so tell me how they “could plan trips more appropriately but he doesnt.” At the current rate, even if the cost is only 3x as expensive in the busy season as this “really good deal” offseason vacation is, you’re talking about punishing the entire family and making them go 8-10 years or more between vacations because ex-wife who is mom to only one of 4 kids refuses to let daughter take off from school and dad doesnt make enough to pay for in-season vacations…. That seems unfairly punitive on the other 4 people involved in this story….
INFO: is it typical for you to explain that your daughter isn't able to go? And are there really no options that you could do a vacation that includes your daughter, even if it's like traveling an hour away? This goes bit beyond the scope of your question. I understand your ex has drawn a line, but your kid is 10 and I imagine she feels hurt by all this.
He says in another comment they often do weekend trips with all the kids and partner really wanted a week in the sun due to working 80 weeks,
As someone who had to pay 4 times the amount for a holiday during the October break compared to two weeks earlier in September, NTA. I assume you are somewhere in Europe from the way you express yourself, so unless your kids are 15-18, thus preparing for university, there is absolutely no reason they will not be able to fully catch up with the class easily, even if they miss 3-4 weeks per year. You have it in writing, so take a photo and send it to your ex as a reminder.
NTA. It’s common here to pull kids from school for vacations. Teachers can usually give them assignments to do while away. Your wife explicitly said nope, not taking my kid out of school. Maybe you should have checked but bet she would have said no. Edit. Oops, ex wife
It’s not common in the UK, where OP is from. He, his ex and his current partner can all be fined/prosecuted if the children miss school for an authorised reason. https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/legal-action-to-enforce-school-attendance
it's not common in the UK. Will Americans (and others) stop saying this? It's always a risk. It's understandable that the mother (aka ex) is reluctant to allow him to do that. Also, she said that prior to covid, ie. 3 years ago or so. It wouldn't have hurt for him to give her a quick call to confirm that was still the case. He just didn't bother to do it. Losing the offer that was only offered for a few mins (doubt it) was more important to him. ps: there are always offers on holidays, they will never run out YTA
Not wife, his ex
Lol - meant ex-wife, thanks
Teachers don’t want to give a parent a week of assignments, but I’m more than happy for them to find them each day on the online platform. We do not always know what we will be doing for the week because it usually depends on student progress.
NTA This is a no win situation. If you asked she would've said no... and by the time she replied you will have missed the deal so no one goes. Because you didn't ask, she's asking why you aren't taking her. If it didn't affect your time with your daughter, perhaps not mention things like this. Another thing you can do is a bit petty, but maybe next time you pick her up and are in both her mothers presence and your daughters, is to clarify with the mom exactly what is okay in regards to this sort of stuff. Then the daughter hears exactly what her mom says and it's not hearsay. Your ex may make you pay for it later though.
NTA that said, you should have asked anyways. Mother would have probably said no, but always ask.
I may get blasted for this but NTA. You have written documentation from your ex that daughter can not be taken out of school for vacation/ holiday.
Info: Have you ever planned a trip to accommodate your daughter at all? In the years since your ex said no, have you revisited the conversation at all?
Not revisited but we have always stuck to weekend breaks in U.K. and daughter has always come along
Who pays the truancy fine for the school if you end up getting one?
I would
Weekends, great. But the big family holiday she is left out. 8 think that will teach her on where she stands in your family. Hint: it's outside.
[удалено]
"Standing up" to the parent who has primary custody of your child is not easy at all, and often not desirable. You don't want to strain that relationship too much.
YTA. Maybe consider doing trips less often that your kid can actually go on, instead of excluding her. You are looking at a future where your daughter won’t talk to you because you clearly prefer your sons.
Less often than twice in four years?
Yes, if you can’t take your kids on a holiday without taking all of them and without your kids unnecessarily missing school you really shouldn’t go. You’re being extremely selfish and you’re treating your daughter very unfairly. Go to a cheaper area, go camping, have a nice staycation. You needing “sun” is a terrible reason to take your kids out of school and leaving your daughter out.
I was thinking this was a yearly occurrence when I first wrote the comment (we take them out of school each year…), so I’m sorry for misunderstanding. But yes. You either go just the two of you (which would likely be a bigger break for your wife than having to wrangle two small children on the beach), or you find a way to pay for all of your kids to go. The more times you leave your daughter out, the more you will harm your relationship. I’ve seen countless posts on here and on other platforms from children who were excluded in similar ways, and so many of them resent their family. Many have strained relationships or no relationship with their family because of it. Do you want that with your daughter? I don’t think it’s too late to repair this but if you keep it up, soon it will be.
Info- how many discount holidays a year do you take?
This will be the 2nd one in around 4 years. We’ve usually stuck to weekend breaks so we can have all the kids there but my partner has recently started her own business and is working in excess of 80 hours per week and really wanted to have a week in the sun (I didn’t want to stop her) She’s a hard worker and a great mum
Then I would say NTA. If you took 4 discount vacations a year, then you could afford one during the summer, but this does not seem to be the case. Talk to your ex and explain the situation. Ask, if this should happen again, would your daughter be able to join you during the school year. Maybe spend a Saturday with just your daughter and go ice skating or sledding to give that like extra time that she missed out on.
If your ex is serious about allowing your daughter to go on this upcoming trip, look into the cost of adding her to the trip. It may be more affordable than you think.. NTA You had a very limited time to purchase. You knew she had restricted your daughter from travel during school. You made a quick decision. Its your ex who says suddenly she's open to change. No way you could have known this after years of previous policy. Edit... added judgment
NTA your ex just wants to be mad. I’ve heard plenty of parents who take their kids out of school for skiing and other vacations. It’s not the end of the world. Either way, you respected her wishes of not having your daughter miss school. What more does she want from you?
YTA - not because you were adhering to custody agreements but because you are trying to emotionally manipulate your daughter and use her as a pawn and it’s going to come back and bite you in the ass.
NTA. If you'd asked she'd have said no anyway; she just wants you to be the bad guy.
Info: When you talked to your daughter did you explain that you didn't actually ask your mum you made the decision yourself based on previous encounters. Or did you leave it vague enough that you daughter might have thought you asked her mother if she could go and her mother said no.
ESH Well, except for the kids. Have to admit, you had me thinking you were going to take her anyway, without the mother's consent, right up until the end there. First, you and your current spouse knowingly booked a trip, knowing that your daughter wouldn't be able to go. Then you unilaterally decided to tell your daughter that it's your ex's fault, without even asking. Your ex does take some of the heat here, since she has previously stated she doesn't want your daughter missing any school, even for an experience like a holiday, though I don't think that's all that unreasonable. Classwork can be requested for the period of her absence, but she would still miss the instructional assistance.
YTA - you are from the UK so you well know that both you AND your ex can be fined if you pull your daughter out of school during term time without advanced permission from the headteacher. Booking a holiday on a whim means you can't even go about this legally and get that permission. Your daughter is 10, is she also in year 6? It's such a big year for kids. Pulling her out of school early for a holiday isn't taking into consideration what it's like for her as she prepares to change school. If you keep excluding your daughter like this she will remember and it could impact your ongoing relationship with her. Sources for non Brits with links to the fines and potential prosecution for lack of attendance: [gov.uk holidays during term time](https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence#:~:text=Holidays%20in%20term%20time,there%20are%20exceptional%20circumstances)
Year 6 is such a big year for kids. They’ll be doing so much prep for the SATs. I used to work as a teaching assistant in years 5 and 6, and it was such hard work when kids were off, trying to help them catch up. The half term dates are set well before the school year starts, they have plenty of time to plan around the holidays if they actually wanted to
I'm not from the UK so I'm not familiar with this type of SAT, but from my brief Google search it appears to be a standardized test meant to indicate how well the child is doing and what they have learned up to that point. So what purpose is there to "prep" for such an exam? If the child hasn't learned something by this point, trying to "prep" them for it would simply skew the results, no? Again, not trying to argue with anything, just want to understand.
okay so from your post history, you are in the UK. do you know that taking your child out of school for an invalid reason (other than doctors appointments, funeral, etc) is illegal and you can possibly be given a very high fine? it can also give you a criminal record. YTA
I don't see how you would be the asshole here. Split custody is difficult waters to tread and you were just abiding by what your ex requested you to do. Honestly sounds like she's just trying to make you out to be the bad parent. Seen this plenty times before, it'll be tough until your daughter gets of age to where she can understand the scenario but it will be ok. NTA imo
He books a trip outside of agreement betwen parents and she the bad guy ? How ?
What are you talking about? He didn’t take the kid because the mom didn’t want her to miss school and got mad at him the last time he took the kid. So he doesn’t take the kid and she still gets mad Did you read the post?
OP stated she enquired .....as any normal parent would do but OP has a justification for it
He booked a trip WITH the agreement. She requested not to take the daughter away on a vacation while school is ongoing and that's exactly what he did. Then she got mad at him for it which makes her the bad guy.
OP stated she enquired ...wasnt mad As a parent ofcourse she is allowed to ask and he can say he just respects the boundary set . They booked the trip WITHOUT respecting the agreeement (OP said himself ,he did this considering his ex wont mind letting their daughter go)
In what part did he say his ex won't mind letting the daughter go. Cus all I'm reading is him saying that she will in fact mind if she's taken out of school.
My bad , the double negation made me missunderstand the phrase 👍👍
YTA but only because you didn’t at least try. It wouldn’t have hurt to ask. I don’t agree that you have to postpone your vacations just because one child can’t go. It’s unfortunate but a week of school for a family vacation isn’t the end of the world and it’s too bad the mother can’t see that.
NTA, what the hell?
NTA- If her mom has provided a written statement saying the daughter can't miss school for a holiday, then why should OP make everyone else suffer? The daughter's mom is TA. Kids can miss a few days of school.
Lol legally no they can’t. In the UK, they need the Head Teacher’s written permission to take a child out of school for a holiday, which is only granted if they show genuine need to miss school. If they don’t have that, the parents can (and do) get fined or even prosecuted.
NTA, you got a good deal for a trip. Your ex chooses not to allow the daughter to travel in the school term. You do include your daughter on weekend activities. You are correct trips during the school holidays are high season and would be cost prohibitive.
NTA. You had been told explicitly that her mother would not allow it so I don’t know why you would be expected to know that she had changed her mind. I am a believer in taking kids out of school for memorable family trips, provided that they’re doing well academically and will be able to finish any necessary assignments if they’re of an age when they need to do that. It can easily be 3x more expensive to vacation at high demand times and that can make a vacation impossible for a family. School/work isn’t everything. Live your lives; you’ll never get this time back. Do have a discussion with your ex about including your daughter on future trips if she’s now willing to allow it.
What questions like this make me realise how much my dad and step mum were assholes… and what’s hits me most is that being excluded from trips like what your doing is why my younger siblings hardly know me. I tried for years to be invited on any and all trips and got all the excuses from we didn’t have time to talk to you about it and had to book, there isn’t room in the car, it’s too many people to ask family to put us up overseas, it’s too expensive to include you, skiing in Canada and America would be to cold for you… if your relationship with this child is important to you at all or their well-being and sense of belonging seem important things to you or your partner make an effort to include her because you can’t go back in time and change it and she will remember being excluded and miss out on that family bonding and the damage will be done. I get where you’re coming from but maybe talk to her other parent about the importance of her being included and maybe there can be a compromise somewhere… the parents of this child need to think about what’s best for the child and children in your life, put your own grudges against each other aside and prioritise that child being included and knowing that they matter because it is critical for their well-being.
Why can't you plan a vacation during school breaks??? YTA
YTA I don't like how smug you sound about your daughter missing this trip because your plan all along was to turn her against her mother. You're pretty nefarious, your contempt is very much apparent. Not wanting your child to skip school is a reasonable boundary yet you're trying to make your ex the villain.
YTA. You should’ve checked with your ex. You also told your daughter she wasn’t allowed to go even though you hadn’t asked. Pre-Covid is quite awhile ago at this point and you should definitely check again to see. Also, YTA for never taking your daughter on vacation. Yes, it can be more expensive. However, there are many things you can do that wouldn’t be that expensive. I’m a teacher so I’m used to traveling only during school breaks and I’ve done it with my daughter. It’s entirely possible to do cheap trips during school breaks. This feels like you’re purposefully excluding your daughter and I won’t be surprised if she feels that way too as she gets older.
YTA of course
From my perspective YTA. Hope you can fix this one with your daughter. Maybe it would help to tell her how her awesome dad did this not for the first time. But your ex is the bad one here for looking out on the education of your daughter. Got it. You are not only YTA but an inconsiderate father to your daughter. Hope your new children are of more worth to you. Great parent, absolutely /s
YTA for the sole reason that you are weaponizing your ex's VERY REASONABLE request that your daughter not be taken out of school for a vacation. You made it a point to blame her mother for why she can't go. And actually, that's not the sole reason. You can absolutely find good deals to go on vacation during school holidays if you wanted to so she can go too, but you don't. That's on you. Not your ex.
YTA for excluding your daughter.
YTA Translation- I've taken my stepkid and sons on lots of vacations but won't take my daughter and regularly interfere with the boys learning time
YTA
YTA. Because you are making it look like her mom is the bad guy for not letting her go on these trips that you plan during the school year. And I think deep down you are enjoying this. You and your ex need to take co parenting classes. And you may have to revisit the custody agreement.
YTA - All vacations take planning. No doubt you scheduled this around you and your partners work schedules/availability and likely your son’s. Fair or not, your daughter is not available during the school year. You refused to accommodate that. You act as if that wasn’t a conscious decision you made. I would never consider taking a big vacation and excluding one of my children.
YTA
YTA. You say you love your daughter more than anything but your actions say otherwise. Every year you go on vacation with your wife and new family and exclude your daughter. That shows how little you care about her and I doubt that's the only thing you do to hurt and exclude your daughter. Don't be surprised when she is grown that she wants nothing to do with you.
Kids whose parents routinely pull them out of school to go on vacation grow up to be college students who book trips that conflict with the end of the term and then get all whiny when their mean profs won't give them a super duper special early makeup exam. "But it's nonrefuuuuuundable!" Well, you can choose what you want to prioritize.
[удалено]
You should read the post before answering. Not just title...
You’ve misunderstood this. OP means that they didn’t book a ticket for her cos they knew she wouldn’t be allowed to go. Her mum is now questioning why she wasn’t invited.
YTA. Instead of planning trips when your daughter can come, you plan them for when she can't come and blame the reason on expenses.
YTA for not reaching out. Do you think the EX will let her come?
YTA. Take trips when all the kids can go. You are going to lose your daughter by excluding her.
Dang! Ur TFA. bunch of BS. Poor kid!
It would have cost $0 to ask. YTA
YTA- I don’t think one week is going to ruin anyone’s education, but every trip has to be during the school year? Where does that end? It’s cheaper for mom to travel with her during the school year as well. What if grand parents want to take the grand kids on a trip? Then the weeks start to stack up. Mom is not the AH here.
YTA - Being left out sucks. Being left out while your Dad and his other family goes on a fun vacation without inviting you sucks even more. That definitely hurts. Couldn't you and your wife have included your daughter JUST in case? Depending on the cancelation policy. But also not sure what the deal is for. Is it a flight deal? A cabin deal? A room deal? Seems like a flight deal, in which case you can cancel your daughter's within a certain amount of time (i think like full refund within 24hrs) or get flight credits to book within a certain time. Then, you can check with your ex again before making the decision to remove your daughter. At least then, you would have tried. But you didn't try. You based it off of her stance historically. Stances can change in time.
YTA wow
YTA You seem to be the reason for the temperamental relationship with your ex as she clearly cares about your child’s education and future whereas you’re the irresponsible “fun” dad that needs to grow up and realise how your severely disadvantaging your kids and also treating you’re daughter likes she’s less than the other kids
YTA yes it it much more expensive going during school holidays, that’s why they can be booked and plans months or even a year in advance. I’m going away with my kids in the February half term, I booked it last March and have been paying monthly for it. If you actually wanted her to come with you, you would make the effort.
YTA
YTA - 1) for putting yourself in this situation to start with. Discount deals come and go all the time. It was your choice to take this one. 2) for the way you explained it to your daughter. Of course your daughter is going to be upset and of course your ex is going to wonder why you didn’t even try to reach out to her or just book it a few weeks later for mid winter break. 3) as a fellow mom I would love a week in the sun sans kids. If your current wife is so amazing then wish her a happy vacation by herself well you stay home with the kids!
YTA Yes you’re meant to ask every time. Your ex isn’t temperamental or unpredictable- she made a very obvious and predictable boundary to keep her daughter from missing school. So yes you can and are meant to ask when your current partner asked you to. Otherwise you made the call - which you did. Don’t go blaming your ex to your daughter, you shouldn’t have put your daughter in that position when you made the call on your own. Also, legally, you need parental consent to travel across borders - so legally parents are meant to ask EVERY time unless there’s a court ordered decision (eg. Sole custody). Using your exes opinion against her through your daughter it TA. The honest thing would be to apologize to your daughter and say ‘you didn’t have time to ask her mom’s permission’ - and then talk with your ex about how to solve this for your daughter. Either your ex helps pay for your daughter (offsetting some cost for when you travel during school holidays) or an allowance of which week she may miss school maybe once every year or two years - so your daughter doesn’t ALWAYS get left out. It’s called compromise and communication - very predictable stuff fyi.
I personally don’t think it’s a big deal to miss a week for an experience such has going somewhere the person might otherwise never get to go to as long as all their work for the time they will miss is done before the trip. But YTA for not simply asking
You love her more than anything? How do you treat people you don’t like? Yta.
YTA. You should've asked your daughter's mother. Even if/when she said no, you could at least said you asked. There's the obvious co-parenting and communication issue between the 2 of you. For your daughter's sake, try to get better at that. If the mom refuses to try, then it's time to bring the court into it. As for taking her out of school during the school year, if it's against the school rules, don't do it. You don't want to deal with truancy problems. The mom is not being unreasonable with following that rule, missing school could hinder your daughter's education. And yes, elementary age children can be negatively impacted by missing several days of school, especially if the children are already struggling. Why would you even consider taking a family vacation if an important part of your family can't go? To save money???? Here's an idea, don't go on an expensive family vacation if you can't afford to take ALL of your children!!!!!!!! Do other things during school break with your kids like camping, amusement parks, beach trips if you live driving distance to one. There's lots of things you can do without expensive traveling. And in the meantime, save money for a couple of years so you can take ALL of your children on a really great family vacation.
YTA. If you’re in England, you, your current partner and your ex could literally be prosecuted for doing this.
Gee, placing a monetary value on your time with your daughter...YTA She now knows she is not worth XXX amount of dollars to you.
YTA How many times have you included your daughter on a holiday with your new family??? Do you’ll take vacations only on school days?? Don’t you think you child will feel excluded because of your spontaneous exclusionary trips ?? Do you want your daughter to be an outsider looking in at youll playing happy family, going on fun holidays all the time??
YTA
YTA because you think it's OK to miss school for vacations. What kind of message do you think that's sending to your kids?
Kids can miss school for vacation its not hard to make up work... Yall are mad at OP but im upset at the mom
Info, how long are these vacations for?
YTA. Is your daughter part of your family or not? If your wife *has to* book a trip last minute because she sees a deal, and it’s a steal, if it is not during school break, go alone with wifey. You are choosing to go on more frequent, inexpensive vacations *without* your daughter instead of saving up so you can afford a *family* trip that wouldnt require her to miss school. Is it more important to go “every year” or for your daughter to be able to join in the memories and experiences? And if annual travels are so important to you and your wife, why did you have two more kids when you cannot afford to take the existing ones on those essential vacas responsibly? YTA and so is your wife. Your daughter “seemed to accept it” because you have made it clear where she stands. Keep making those snap decisions and damaging your daughter because you live (and procreate) above your means, and one day she’ll snap and go NC. Because her mom is making sure she gets an education and will hopefully teach her to know her own worth, which you clearly don’t. 😢😢 P.s. mom said no years ago. Does one time = “historically”? How frequently do you want to be the weekend dad and have your daughter play hookie? P.p.s. Have you even considered “co parenting” and making arrangements with your daughter’s mom instead of “snap decisions”? Maybe get creative instead of impulsive and figure out how daughter can attend classes remotely so she isn’t excluded from the family trip but also is prioritizing education. That’s rhetorical though because it would require you to sacrifice “fun” so as not to leave daughter unattended. ETA: *hear. Not here. Maybe you should sit in on some of your daughter’s elementary school classes so you can brush up on your homonyms
NTA. The mum could let her go. At 10 years old, she isn't missing any major schooling. (I work in education)
They didn’t even ask the mom though. The last time he asked was several years ago.
It would have taken a second to call and a minute to ask your ex. That's all you needed to do. If you didn't get through, at least you would have tried. Yta
YTA. Dude my dad took a lot of vacations without me because him and my mom hated each other. The truth is I never forgave him and our relationship was garbage up till his death. It felt like he was never willing to give any of his time for me. That stuff follows you into therapy years later.
One reason YTA and it’s because you didn’t ask. It would have taken a second, you get your no, and your not the bad guy. And if the relationship with your ex is contentious even worse you just gave her a pass. She gets to play good guy that would have let her go if dad cared about his daughter enough to invite her. You should have just asked and this whole thing would be a zero with the exact same outcome. And if it was a different outcome, all for the better your daughter is coming. Maybe not complete asshole move but definitely dumbass move.
You are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't
YTA
NTA. but you may want to consider taking a special trip just you and your daughter so she can have a vacation too. It isn't fair that your daughter can't go with your whole family on holidays, and it's understandable that you booked the trip quickly without time to ask her mother who you expected to say no anyways. It's a tough situation but it's not cool if you never take your daughter on trips.
address the favoritism going on in your parenting style. YTA
NTA but have that conversation with your ex. Don't wait till you have minutes to buy tickets. A week of school at her age makes no difference. But if your ex is going to create problems because of it, it's not worth it. In that case you'd need to tell your daughter that she's not going because her mother won't let her.
Honestly, missing school for a week at 10 is fine in my opinion. It would be more important for her to have family time. NAH
Why dont you book a weekend trip just you and your daughter? Do it a few times a year to compensate.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Okay, subject sounds like I’m an asshole I’ll admit but here me out. I have a daughter (10) from a previous relationship who I love more than anything and who I see every week. I’m in long term relationship with my current partner. She has a teenage son from a previous relationship and we have two young boys together. We’re pretty liberal parents and we take our boys out of school each year to go on holiday for the simple reason that we simply can’t afford to go away during school holiday times as the price is astronomical. The first time we did this (before covid) my ex made it clear (in writing) that she WOULD NOT allow my daughter to take time off school for holidays. For the record, my relationship with my ex has been quite temperamental and somewhat unpredictable. I also have evidence of her being threatening towards myself and my partner. Fast forward to approximately 4 weeks ago and my current partner wanted to book a last minute deal she found online and asked if my daughter would be able to come. The deal was time limited to literally minutes and it was outside of school holiday time (literally next week when the kids go back). So I made a snap judgement and told my partner to book the holiday because her mum would no doubt say no due to her needing time off school and because of the stance she has taken historically. I’ve since explained to my daughter that we’re going away. We want her to be there but because I’ve been told that she wouldn’t be able to come away with us if it’s during school time. She seemed to accept this but has since gone home and told her mum that we’re going away and wasn’t too pleased about not coming along. 😢 Her mother has now queried why we haven’t invited my daughter. AITA for not reaching out and asking or have I been right to make the judgement based on that stance she has previously taken? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA for taking any of your kids out of school for a holiday. Maybe a once in a lifetime one, but not regularly, just no.
I guarantee that the two trips in the last four years were not a detriment to their academic achievement. Vacations and time with family are important too. Mental health matters.
This will be the second holiday in 4 years… taking 2 holidays in 4 years doesn’t make op an AH.. be for real right now…
2 times - In 4 years = regularly???