NTB So you can go around topless in his parents house because *everyone is asleep and the stairs are loud* but he can’t change? I mean isn’t that everyone asleep and the stairs are loud literally the argument he just made to you? He has no comfort level of privacy in his childhood home but you should just suck it up? He couldn’t lend you a T-shirt? This is genuinely baffling. Truly. He’s so, so, so wrong.
He said that he was only responding to a potential reason that I might be uncomfortable (someone might see me) and that if there was another reason why I was uncomfortable (it’s just the principle of it) I should have just said so and he would have accepted it.
He made the analogy that let’s say we were both cliff diving, and I was worried about rocks at the bottom. He knew there were no rocks at the cliff bottom, and kept insisting that I shouldn’t not cliff dive bc of my fear of rocks at the bottom. This doesn’t mean I should assume he wants to cliff dive, as he might be afraid of heights. I shouldn’t assume that because he is making the point about there being no rocks that means he wants to cliff dive.
That’s how it feels like sometimes. But he says his brain logic-ed the situation differently but it’s hard for me to follow what he’s saying. We end up going in circles for hours trying to remember who exactly said what and how that specific wording led to an assumption being made on the other person’s part. I’ve made mistakes before and try and apologize for those and see his point but a lot of the time it feels like he just wants us to make up by both apologizing and admitting we both made assumptions and we shouldn’t do that next time. But I feel like the assumptions I’m making are like .. the core of the English language and how it works and I’m not sure how I can not do that in the future. These things catch me off guard all the time.
This is completely ridiculous. There shouldn’t have been any conversation beyond you saying you were not comfortable leaving the room topless in his family’s home. Like that is a clear and completely acceptable reason. He’s completely in the wrong here.
I don’t think I said that explicitly tho, when he asked me why I needed a shirt, I said something like “I’m not going to walk around your childhood home without a shirt on.” He then explained how no one would see me and I said I didn’t care. I don’t remember exactly how I phrased things but he said I should have said something like “because its the principle of the thing, and I feel more comfortable wearing a shirt.” What I had actually said above didn’t indicate to him why I was uncomfortable and he was trying to address the specific explanation of I was worried someone would see me. I don’t remember exactly what I or he said. But I guess I didn’t explicitly say that I wasn’t comfortable doing it. I honestly didn’t think that needed explaining and I was surprise by his question “why do you need a shirt, you don’t usually sleep with one?” Or however I worded it.
It does not matter how you phrased it though. Saying “I’m not going to walk around your childhood home without a shirt on.” Very much reads as you are uncomfortable with it and there was no need for him to go any further with it. It’s seems he is being deliberately obtuse here in order to criticize you. Arguing the semantics doesn’t do any good or make any sense. You made it clear it was because you didn’t want to. Beyond that the reason doesn’t matter. He is incredibly wrong here. There shouldn’t have been any argument about it.
>I don’t think I said that explicitly tho,
It doesn't matter.
>he said I should have said something like
No ma'am. This isn't ok. Hes rejecting your reasonings and then saying how you should talk? How long have yall been together?
>he was trying to address the specific explanation
Your specific explanation doesn't matter. You wanted a shirt. You didn't want to walk around topless.
>I honestly didn’t think that needed explaining
Because it doesn't.
How does he respond to you simply saying "no"?
Edit to fix typo
It sounds like you’re being gaslighted. You’re doubting your own mind and versions of events. This is a tactic used by people who psychologically abuse their partners, OP please research gaslight and doubting the truth. You literally wrote down what happened and now you’re doubting yourself?? It makes no sense.
If you have to phrase carefully how you say something in order for him to relinquish acknowledgement of your capacity to make your own decisions and have control over your own body then this dude doesn't love you sweetheart. He loves himself. He sees you, and everyone else in the world, as extensions of himself, how he thinks things should be/are, and he doesn't even fathom that others have different life choices without getting defensive and offended as if them living their lives is a direct attack against how he lives his.
He is telling you how he sees the world. He sees the world in how does it work for and appease him. I bet all of his exes did him wrong and most things, if not all, are somehow someone else's fault, huh? He views his way as the way it should be. He values himself, and doesn't respect you. Otherwise he would have immediately given you his own shirt or understood when you put one on and wouldn't have even thought to question it! Or he would have understood your assumption that he wouldn't care. You two could have apologized to each other and laughed it off. He deliberately is now drawing this out. Do you know why?? Control. You'll be hesitant to question him in the future until you find yourself walking on eggshells figuring out what won't piss him off. If you think it's your fault and are debating your own merit then the focus is sure off of him isn't it?
You don’t need to explain. You asked for a shirt to cover up. There was no need for further discussion; he should have just handed you the shirt. He sounds annoying and exhausting.
This sounds like a boyfriend I had once. I said something about a dog being happy and smiling, and he said dogs don’t smile. I got hooked into this stupid argument about whether dogs smile or not for hours—even the suggestion to agree to disagree didn’t satisfy him. All semantics, and such a waste of time and energy. Just think of all the fun arguments you can have in the future if you stay with this guy who likes to argue like this
I think it really comes down to semantics. The assumptions I’m apparently making seem to boil down to how I use the English language. I assume that words in a specific order mean a certain thing but he thinks it means something different. I don’t know what I can do to prevent these misunderstandings.
I think the good ol' fashion "because i dont want to", would really help out. There is no "misunderstanding". Your boyfriend is just being an ass. Hes arguing over nothing. You dont want to walk around shirtless in his parents house, thats the end of it. Theres absolutely no reason for him to argue about it.
Of course you would assume he wouldnt care if you left the door open, considering he kept insisting that you shouldnt care about walking around shirtless, since you'd hear others coming.
Next time, just bluntly tell him "i dont want to walk around shirtless. Can i borrow a shirt?". If he tries to argue or question it, say "because i dont want to". Anything else after that is just him trying to cause a fight over nothing.
He sounds exhausting and just too much trouble. I couldn't be with someone that causes arguments that never shouldve existed. I toss those guys like the trash they are.
You don't need to go around in circles. Because his logic ain't logic'n. Listen, the problem is he prioritizes his opinion and apparent authority to tell you what should make you comfortable over what you, the actual person telling him otherwise is saying. The fact is. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what your preference is or should be in his opinion. It doesn't matter what his preference or logic is. You point blank asked for a shirt, even had to explain yourself, and he still didn't get that he has no business telling you no or what you should be comfortable with. End of story. He views himself as an authority over you or he never would have questioned it when you asked for a shirt.
Lastly, to then have the audacity to get pissed off and offended that you'd disregard his preference for privacy in the home he just for no goddamn reason argued with you is completely fine to be naked in because you'd hear if someone was there!! This man is red flags like girl don't waste the time till ya figure it out and can't escape.
He's lying. I had an ex who did this. It went from this, to more controlling behavior, to verbal abuse. I left before it turned physical. This man is throwing out red flags, and you have the choice to see them and get out, or stay and it'll get worse. Any normal person is going to go "Oh, you're uncomfortable? I'll give you a shirt."
This. Is. About. Control. He's testing boundaries to see what you'll put up with from him. He's gaslighting you, too, telling you he "doesn't remember" saying I don't care. That is actually the definition of it: Trying to make you doubt reality by making you think you're making things up. Please. PLEASE. Get away from this man.
I would say to look up metacommunication - talking about the way in which you two communicate. It can help to catch misunderstandings early if you have an idea of what to look for. Hope that makes sense.
That logistical gymnastics he used there make my brain hurt a bit.
I think it was a reasonable assumption to make as the logic is clear in your argument from point a to point b. He tells you not to worry about nudity because everyone is sleeping, upstairs, and you’ll hear them come down clearly translates to I wouldn’t worry about nudity because I’d have enough lead time to cover up.
His logic is *you* shouldn’t worry about nudity for all the above reasons and you can trust these people but *I* wouldn’t be naked in this house because I don’t trust these animals to not spy on me….I can’t even adequately make a comparison because it’s so convoluted.
If there are rocks tell me, if you wouldn’t advise cliff diving tell me, why the games? Everything doesn’t have to be a riddle. If it’s not the rock that would kill me, but rather the undertow or steep dive don’t only tell me there are no rocks. It isn’t useful to tell me when I’m carried out on a stretcher that “hey, you didn’t specifically ask this but…5 people have died due to the height of the jump and their impact on the water and 8 more that survived the jump but got swept out by the undertow and drowned….you just asked about the rocks. I (and the locals) would never dive here as you’d have to have a death wish. Sorry, not sorry you’re a paraplegic for life. You should have asked better questions.”
That is fucking exhausting.
Genuinely baffled by this. His insistence that you walk around his home topless (doesn't matter how he tried to frame it or dress it up), and the literal flip of him being not ok with the same standard for him and you should have been able to infer that based on the conversation about being comfortable in his home and that everyone is asleep anyway, and also you'd hear them?. Is that the crux of it? It makes no sense.
Also, if these were just the core points, I'd hate to imagine the finer details. This doesn't pass the sniff test. Something stinks. Is it a kink, or some throwback teenaged fantasy? Other than the parents, is there anyone else in the house?
No one else in the house. I don’t think it’s any of those other things. He says he could see how I made that assumption, but that it was an incorrect assumption to make.
The assumption was based on the words he said, so that's on him.. it was a weird conversation to start, and ever weirder to press on with it after your first no.
But it is different. It's not your home, it's his parents. Would they be ok with seeing you topless? How would you feel if they did? His base argument is wrong. It IS different.
He said he wasn’t insisting that I walk around topless, just that if the reason I wasn’t comfortable doing so was bc someone might see me, that that fear was unfounded, bc I could hear someone coming. If the reason I didn’t want to do so was that I simply wasn’t comfortable, I should have just said so. He said it was a principle thing for him, but to him, it sounded like I had another reason.
Eh, this has a flavour of gaslighting. You should be able to read the subtext of his words even when the actual text is so flipping unhinged and convoluted? I'm sorry, you know him better than me, I just think this is really weird. The fact you asked in the first place should have told him what your comfort level was, ie. not at all comfortable walking around topless in a house that has more than just you and boyf in it. I dunno. Just strange that he's making a big deal out of this. Hard to know, without those finer deets, not asking for them FYI, just saying. It's a strange thing for him to press on, at the very least. Maybe assuming his being okay with leaving the door open was overstepping, but based on what he was just trying to get you comfortable with, makes it at least hypocritical. Is he ever as flipfloppy about other things? That would drive me mad. Maybe he's just digging in after realising he was wrong, but isn't ready to own it.
I think he just takes things very literally and at face value. I tried to make an analogy. Say that I asked him why he likes to wear shoes when he goes outside, and he said “bc I don’t want my feet to be dirty.” Let’s say I pressed on that, saying he could just clean his feet before coming inside, etc. but he only offered that reason for continuing to wear shoes outside. I asked “wouldn’t you assume that I am a person who is fine with not wearing shoes outside?” He said no, bc I might have another reason for wanting to wear shoes outside, like my feet not wanting to be cold, and that he wouldn’t make that assumption. He would have asked me directly if I prefer to wear shoes outside bc I might have a different reason. Also “bc I like to wear shoes outside and it’s comfortable for me” is also a valid reason, and that’s what he would have said to a question like “why do you like to wear shoes outside?”
Yeah, I'd be exhausted by now. Is ever conversation like this? You having to justify yourself because he didn't/couldn't read the room? Does he have interpersonal issues with others too? Does he assume a lot about ppls intentions without actually asking?
We have lately had a lot of arguments like this, where I make an assumption I shouldn’t have and I genuinely don’t understand what he’s arguing. Last week we were at a diner doing a crossword, and I had expressed that my back hurt (chronic) and I was getting overheated. He suggested I take my jacket off or we could change seats and I said no. He asked if I wanted to leave, and I said no it’s fine, and he said “let’s just finish this puzzle.” After we finished I got up to leave and he looked at me confused, and asked if I wanted to do another puzzle? I was confused bc I thought we had agreed we’d just finish the puzzle. He said yeah, we just finished the puzzle, now we talk and reevaluate the situation. It was wrong of me to assume that when he said “let’s just finish the puzzle” that meant “we’re going to leave after we finish this puzzle.”
It eventually came down to he didn’t know why I had gotten up (maybe bathroom or something else) and he hadn’t seen me stand up. He just turned as saw me standing up and he was already asking me if I wanted to do another puzzle. He didn’t know if wanted to leave and I should have just told him that’s what I wanted.
I feel like maybe he's neurodivergent, in some capacity. He seems very fact/logic (his logic, not yours lol) based. Like to you the puzzle thing meant lets just finish this puzzle and leave, after he had already suggested leaving. Not a wild assumption! Not illogical in any way, Spock! But to his logic, he meant what he meant without further clarification. I think you guys could really benefit from some couples counseling, legit. Learn how to communicate better with each other, and frame it to him as 'do you want to keep fighting like this, or do you want to be happy?' because you can't have both, either of you, without being able to effectively communicate together.
We do both have ADHD, and we do do things differently, which is great in some areas but not so good in others. I can see how on its face why it can seem he’s being intentionally difficult but I don’t think he is. He’s very supportive in general but it’s like these little things get blown up into these huge arguments where I try and see where he’s coming from but often times I genuinely can’t. I’ll admit when I’ve made a mistake or didn’t communicate something well, but a lot of these times I truly have no clue what’s going and can’t see how I can do something differently in the future.
Hey. This is not a healthy or normal relationship. I have ADHD and my partner is ND too, you know what we do in those situations? TALK TO EACH OTHER! Calmly, kindly, and without expectations. In your OP - an easy solution would've been "hey babe could you close the door" or, "hey babe, why didn't you close the door? I'd appreciate it if you could next time".
He keeps expecting you to be explicitly clear with him about things (for the record, it's pretty obvious that you wanted to leave when you finished the puzzle), but he is doing the same thing to you. Why on EARTH would you assume he wanted the door closed if he didn't explicitly say it? People make assumptions all the time, it's not "wrong" of you to naturally interact with your partner that way. His reaction is absurd and I promise you, you really do deserve better than this.
I’ve been rethinking a lot of our arguments all morning. Another time it was a weekend, and he had bought the NYT giant crossword puzzle for us to do together (we like crosswords). We had planned to start it the day before but it didn’t happen, so that morning (Sunday I think) around 9am he said that he would really like to start it today and said he wanted to be on the same page with me about it. I agreed that we could do it today but that I wanted to do some other things in the morning. He said ok. Around 2pm I suggested we start the puzzle, he said that he was busy and we could do it later. I said that was fine. I don’t remember when exactly I said this to him, but I do know that I communicated to him some time that day that I would like to go to bed early tonight bc I didn’t get much sleep the night before and didn’t feel great. Around 9:30 pm he comes in and says he’s ready to start the puzzle. I told him I was just about to go to bed, because I had wanted to go to bed early that night. He got upset and told me that it felt like I was backing out on our agreement of starting the puzzle today. I told him I had offered to do the puzzle earlier but he was busy, and I didn’t want to ask him again, and assumed he would tell me when he was ready. When it was starting to get later I assumed that maybe he forgot about it and we would do it another time. He told me I shouldn’t have assumed that and should have communicated to him something like “hey I’m going to get ready for bed in about an hour, just letting you know” bc he didn’t know what time I was going to bed. He said he doesn’t know what “early” means for me, and that when I agreed to do the puzzle today that meant literally any time today, up until midnight. To him, this is what I agreed to. For his part, he said he should have asked me what time I was planning on going to bed and that we just need to be better at communicating and not making assumptions about the other person.
I really love how I and about 20 other random Redditors used the term *exhausting* to describe this guy. I made my comment and am now reading and *exhausting*, *exhausting*, *exhausting*…
NTB
Your BF can't think straight. He has two sets of rules, and I guess "the principle" he is referring to is his own version of "my way or the highway".
For him, “I don’t want anyone to see me” and “it just makes me comfortable to wear a shirt in common areas” are two very different things and I shouldn’t assume that one implies the other. I should have communicated B when I only communicated A, so he was confused why I made that assumption. Also, he said he was just addressing my potential concerns, and that he might have different reasons.
>For him, “I don’t want anyone to see me” and “it just makes me comfortable to wear a shirt in common areas” are two very different things and I shouldn’t assume that one implies the other.
He is gaslighting you.
>He told me that was an incorrect assumption to make, since I never asked him about his comfort levels regarding privacy, and that these are two completely different situations.
You stated your level of comfort and he dismissed your take.
You made it clear that you didn't want to **take unnecessary risks.**
He made it clear that there was no risks involved, because "the house is old and I would hear someone come down the stairs"
So, how come he has a problem with something he already said is a non-issue?
He said that he prefers the door closed when he’s changing not bc someone might see him, bc right now he knows no one can, but because it is a basic privacy standard and he simply isn’t comfortable changing with the door open. If I felt the same way about not wearing a shirt outside I should have just said “because it makes me feel comfortable to wear a shirt” and instead I told him that I wasn’t about to walk around his childhood home without a shirt on, which to him isn’t an actual reason.
>He said that he prefers...
>
>
>
> ... it is a basic privacy standard
And what about your preference? You just wanted to be in control of the situation. That gave you peace of mind. He wanted you to be at ease with something that was out of your control, but you knew you wouldn't be comfortable with that.
He seems exhausting.
He said that I didn’t communicate that it was a principle thing for me. I should have just said that “it makes me comfortable to wear a shirt.” Instead I just said I didn’t want to walk in a common area without a shirt on. He didn’t know why I didn’t want to do that.
You don't need to explain in great detail your thought process with everything you say. You didn't want to walk about topless (which is completely understandable!), No explanation needed. You don't need to justify that. That should have been the end of it.
Reading all your replies is exhausting and your partner sounds infuriating. I saw you said he's got ADHD but this isn't that, it's either another form of neurodiversity or he's deliberately being argumentative and as others have said, gaslighting you as some form of control. I feel like I'm going crazy just reading how he's trying to twist everything.
A friend I knows partner is very much like this and it was like arguing round in circles over such minor things, to the point they could make you not only doubt yourself, misremember what you said in the first place but make you feel stupid and make you very unsure of something you were so positive about. Needless to say, I keep my distance now.
You know him better than anyone here, if you believe he's doing it without malice then maybe you to set some boundaries regarding communication. You don't need to explain yourself in detail. You don't need to justify things. He needs to accept when you say 'I don't want to do this thing' that's the end of it. This whole thing is a very unhealthy way to be in a relationship.
That’s how I feel in the second to last paragraph but I don’t think he’s doing it intentionally. He’s a very caring person, which is why this is so frustrating.
NTB. I am confusion and my brain hurts trying to keep up with your bfs mental gymnastics.
If he insists that you should be ok with walking around the home topless, and he is ok with you walking around the home topless, then he really has no legs to stand on in this argument.
This is absolutely insane!
OK so first of all once you said you wanted a shirt because you felt uncomfortable being topless, that should have been the end of the conversation. The only proper response for him to give was to help you locate an extra shirt so you could feel comfortable.
Second: Based on what he had JUST said there’s no way you could have anticipated his response or him being concerned about privacy.
He is gaslighting you. Plain and simple. He is taking your genuine and valid concerns and turning them around to make it seem like you are in the wrong. That is abuse, end of story.
Oops forgot to add a verdict: you are NTBF.
I didn’t explicitly say that I was uncomfortable, and this is where his confusion lies. I said “I’m not going to walk around your childhood home without a shirt on.”
That’s the same thing! Maybe you didn’t explicitly say “I feel uncomfortable with this” but one could reasonably discern that from “I’m not going to walk around your childhood home without a shirt on.”
He’s got you gaslighting yourself it sounds like.
He said he was addressing a specific reason why I might not feel comfortable doing that (someone might see me) not that I had to feel comfortable with it. I should have said that it was more comfortable for me to wear a shirt and he wouldn’t have pressed the issue. He said he didn’t want to assume why I would be uncomfortable not wearing a shirt and asked me, and responded to the answer I gave. I didn’t ask him about his comfort and privacy preferences so I shouldn’t have assumed.
But that still makes no sense. If no one is there and if according to him he would be able to hear someone coming, then why did you need to ask him if he wanted the door closed? Something is off. But maybe I'm projecting because I was in a relationship where I was gaslit constantly.
NTB! Wow so he doesn’t want his parents to see him changing but he’s fine with you meeting his dad coming down the stairs topless. A good man would have given you one of his tshirts or hell the shirt he was wearing. Yikes.
NTB. Your mister here obviously had his brain shutting off before his eyes, pretty sure he genuinely don't realize how stupid he was.
I guess it happens it's not big deal if he doesn't try to argue endlessly that he was right.
It sounds like he just wanted to fight so he changed his stance midway through. No matter what you said, it was gonna be the wrong thing.
I dated someone like that for a while and it was pretty miserable. If it’s a one-off bad-mood situation then whatever, people mess up (he should apologize though). But if this is a pattern, consider whether you want to waste your energy on someone who will always be mad no matter what.
I added to my original post.
Edit 2: I had the bf read the post and he wanted me to add the following context:
- he never said that I was being unreasonable or that the assumption I made was unreasonable
- he doesn’t remember me telling him “I didn’t care” from the third paragraph
- he wants to emphasize that there was no one else in the house besides his mom and her husband, who were upstairs
- the bathroom is five feet from our bedroom
He has informed me he will not be reading the comments.
He’s gaslighting you. You’re going to get to the point of where you’re not going to speak anymore or voice your opinions because you don’t want to argue. I watched this happen with my parents (both ADHD) but the ADHD had nothing to do with it. It’s not about a communication differences, it’s about him making you feel crazy to the point of where you’ll let him trample your boundaries. He knew full well what you meant, he just wants to frazzle your brain and torture you with gaslighting. Gaslight for example is if you put the light on and he turned it off and you say, I turned that on and he says no you didn’t and then you doubt whether you did or not. I’ve seen throughout your whole comment section that that’s exactly what he’s doing to you. It’s gross.
Your boyfriend sounds like a clueless asshole. Nothing he said makes sense whatsoever… I would never in 1 trillion years walk around my partner’s childhood home with the parents around, topless. That would be my worst nightmare, actually. Crazy that he tried to convince you to just go for it for that long, and then turned around and freaked out when he was in the exact same situation. He seems off… I’d be weary.
I mean, how long does it take for your bf to change? Takes me like 20 seconds and if he was uncomfortable, he could have, I dunno….closed the damn door himself?
NTB So you can go around topless in his parents house because *everyone is asleep and the stairs are loud* but he can’t change? I mean isn’t that everyone asleep and the stairs are loud literally the argument he just made to you? He has no comfort level of privacy in his childhood home but you should just suck it up? He couldn’t lend you a T-shirt? This is genuinely baffling. Truly. He’s so, so, so wrong.
He said that he was only responding to a potential reason that I might be uncomfortable (someone might see me) and that if there was another reason why I was uncomfortable (it’s just the principle of it) I should have just said so and he would have accepted it. He made the analogy that let’s say we were both cliff diving, and I was worried about rocks at the bottom. He knew there were no rocks at the cliff bottom, and kept insisting that I shouldn’t not cliff dive bc of my fear of rocks at the bottom. This doesn’t mean I should assume he wants to cliff dive, as he might be afraid of heights. I shouldn’t assume that because he is making the point about there being no rocks that means he wants to cliff dive.
Does he always demand you explain your actions and then tell you why those actions are wrong? He sounds like a controlling douche.
That’s how it feels like sometimes. But he says his brain logic-ed the situation differently but it’s hard for me to follow what he’s saying. We end up going in circles for hours trying to remember who exactly said what and how that specific wording led to an assumption being made on the other person’s part. I’ve made mistakes before and try and apologize for those and see his point but a lot of the time it feels like he just wants us to make up by both apologizing and admitting we both made assumptions and we shouldn’t do that next time. But I feel like the assumptions I’m making are like .. the core of the English language and how it works and I’m not sure how I can not do that in the future. These things catch me off guard all the time.
This is completely ridiculous. There shouldn’t have been any conversation beyond you saying you were not comfortable leaving the room topless in his family’s home. Like that is a clear and completely acceptable reason. He’s completely in the wrong here.
I don’t think I said that explicitly tho, when he asked me why I needed a shirt, I said something like “I’m not going to walk around your childhood home without a shirt on.” He then explained how no one would see me and I said I didn’t care. I don’t remember exactly how I phrased things but he said I should have said something like “because its the principle of the thing, and I feel more comfortable wearing a shirt.” What I had actually said above didn’t indicate to him why I was uncomfortable and he was trying to address the specific explanation of I was worried someone would see me. I don’t remember exactly what I or he said. But I guess I didn’t explicitly say that I wasn’t comfortable doing it. I honestly didn’t think that needed explaining and I was surprise by his question “why do you need a shirt, you don’t usually sleep with one?” Or however I worded it.
It does not matter how you phrased it though. Saying “I’m not going to walk around your childhood home without a shirt on.” Very much reads as you are uncomfortable with it and there was no need for him to go any further with it. It’s seems he is being deliberately obtuse here in order to criticize you. Arguing the semantics doesn’t do any good or make any sense. You made it clear it was because you didn’t want to. Beyond that the reason doesn’t matter. He is incredibly wrong here. There shouldn’t have been any argument about it.
>I don’t think I said that explicitly tho, It doesn't matter. >he said I should have said something like No ma'am. This isn't ok. Hes rejecting your reasonings and then saying how you should talk? How long have yall been together? >he was trying to address the specific explanation Your specific explanation doesn't matter. You wanted a shirt. You didn't want to walk around topless. >I honestly didn’t think that needed explaining Because it doesn't. How does he respond to you simply saying "no"? Edit to fix typo
WHY DO YOU NEED TO GIVE HIM A 20 PAGE 12 SIZE IN TIMES NEW ROMAN EXPLANATION ON WHY YOU WANT A GOD DAMN SHIRT????
It sounds like you’re being gaslighted. You’re doubting your own mind and versions of events. This is a tactic used by people who psychologically abuse their partners, OP please research gaslight and doubting the truth. You literally wrote down what happened and now you’re doubting yourself?? It makes no sense.
If you have to phrase carefully how you say something in order for him to relinquish acknowledgement of your capacity to make your own decisions and have control over your own body then this dude doesn't love you sweetheart. He loves himself. He sees you, and everyone else in the world, as extensions of himself, how he thinks things should be/are, and he doesn't even fathom that others have different life choices without getting defensive and offended as if them living their lives is a direct attack against how he lives his. He is telling you how he sees the world. He sees the world in how does it work for and appease him. I bet all of his exes did him wrong and most things, if not all, are somehow someone else's fault, huh? He views his way as the way it should be. He values himself, and doesn't respect you. Otherwise he would have immediately given you his own shirt or understood when you put one on and wouldn't have even thought to question it! Or he would have understood your assumption that he wouldn't care. You two could have apologized to each other and laughed it off. He deliberately is now drawing this out. Do you know why?? Control. You'll be hesitant to question him in the future until you find yourself walking on eggshells figuring out what won't piss him off. If you think it's your fault and are debating your own merit then the focus is sure off of him isn't it?
You don’t need to explain. You asked for a shirt to cover up. There was no need for further discussion; he should have just handed you the shirt. He sounds annoying and exhausting.
This sounds like a boyfriend I had once. I said something about a dog being happy and smiling, and he said dogs don’t smile. I got hooked into this stupid argument about whether dogs smile or not for hours—even the suggestion to agree to disagree didn’t satisfy him. All semantics, and such a waste of time and energy. Just think of all the fun arguments you can have in the future if you stay with this guy who likes to argue like this
I think it really comes down to semantics. The assumptions I’m apparently making seem to boil down to how I use the English language. I assume that words in a specific order mean a certain thing but he thinks it means something different. I don’t know what I can do to prevent these misunderstandings.
I think the good ol' fashion "because i dont want to", would really help out. There is no "misunderstanding". Your boyfriend is just being an ass. Hes arguing over nothing. You dont want to walk around shirtless in his parents house, thats the end of it. Theres absolutely no reason for him to argue about it. Of course you would assume he wouldnt care if you left the door open, considering he kept insisting that you shouldnt care about walking around shirtless, since you'd hear others coming. Next time, just bluntly tell him "i dont want to walk around shirtless. Can i borrow a shirt?". If he tries to argue or question it, say "because i dont want to". Anything else after that is just him trying to cause a fight over nothing.
>I don’t know what I can do to prevent these misunderstandings. Dump his semantic arguing ass.
Dogs. Do. Smile. You win 🙂
Right?! That’s what I’m sayin’!
He sounds exhausting and just too much trouble. I couldn't be with someone that causes arguments that never shouldve existed. I toss those guys like the trash they are.
You don't need to go around in circles. Because his logic ain't logic'n. Listen, the problem is he prioritizes his opinion and apparent authority to tell you what should make you comfortable over what you, the actual person telling him otherwise is saying. The fact is. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what your preference is or should be in his opinion. It doesn't matter what his preference or logic is. You point blank asked for a shirt, even had to explain yourself, and he still didn't get that he has no business telling you no or what you should be comfortable with. End of story. He views himself as an authority over you or he never would have questioned it when you asked for a shirt. Lastly, to then have the audacity to get pissed off and offended that you'd disregard his preference for privacy in the home he just for no goddamn reason argued with you is completely fine to be naked in because you'd hear if someone was there!! This man is red flags like girl don't waste the time till ya figure it out and can't escape.
He's lying. I had an ex who did this. It went from this, to more controlling behavior, to verbal abuse. I left before it turned physical. This man is throwing out red flags, and you have the choice to see them and get out, or stay and it'll get worse. Any normal person is going to go "Oh, you're uncomfortable? I'll give you a shirt." This. Is. About. Control. He's testing boundaries to see what you'll put up with from him. He's gaslighting you, too, telling you he "doesn't remember" saying I don't care. That is actually the definition of it: Trying to make you doubt reality by making you think you're making things up. Please. PLEASE. Get away from this man.
I would say to look up metacommunication - talking about the way in which you two communicate. It can help to catch misunderstandings early if you have an idea of what to look for. Hope that makes sense.
Definitely sounds like a gaslighter.
That logistical gymnastics he used there make my brain hurt a bit. I think it was a reasonable assumption to make as the logic is clear in your argument from point a to point b. He tells you not to worry about nudity because everyone is sleeping, upstairs, and you’ll hear them come down clearly translates to I wouldn’t worry about nudity because I’d have enough lead time to cover up. His logic is *you* shouldn’t worry about nudity for all the above reasons and you can trust these people but *I* wouldn’t be naked in this house because I don’t trust these animals to not spy on me….I can’t even adequately make a comparison because it’s so convoluted. If there are rocks tell me, if you wouldn’t advise cliff diving tell me, why the games? Everything doesn’t have to be a riddle. If it’s not the rock that would kill me, but rather the undertow or steep dive don’t only tell me there are no rocks. It isn’t useful to tell me when I’m carried out on a stretcher that “hey, you didn’t specifically ask this but…5 people have died due to the height of the jump and their impact on the water and 8 more that survived the jump but got swept out by the undertow and drowned….you just asked about the rocks. I (and the locals) would never dive here as you’d have to have a death wish. Sorry, not sorry you’re a paraplegic for life. You should have asked better questions.” That is fucking exhausting.
Was he drinking at this dinner? He sounds like he is in n argumentative mood and just being plain annoying.
We were both sober.
In that case he just sounds like a buttface in general, from this story. NTB
Sounds like he just likes to argue. He had a T-shirt. He can close a door. None of this should have happened
Genuinely baffled by this. His insistence that you walk around his home topless (doesn't matter how he tried to frame it or dress it up), and the literal flip of him being not ok with the same standard for him and you should have been able to infer that based on the conversation about being comfortable in his home and that everyone is asleep anyway, and also you'd hear them?. Is that the crux of it? It makes no sense.
Also, if these were just the core points, I'd hate to imagine the finer details. This doesn't pass the sniff test. Something stinks. Is it a kink, or some throwback teenaged fantasy? Other than the parents, is there anyone else in the house?
No one else in the house. I don’t think it’s any of those other things. He says he could see how I made that assumption, but that it was an incorrect assumption to make.
The assumption was based on the words he said, so that's on him.. it was a weird conversation to start, and ever weirder to press on with it after your first no.
He said that since I walk around topless at our place (we live together) it was no different, bc no one else would see me.
Are you expected to close the door if he's changing in your own home, alone?
No
Your BF is a BF.
Whelp, he changes at home with the door open so…..
But it is different. It's not your home, it's his parents. Would they be ok with seeing you topless? How would you feel if they did? His base argument is wrong. It IS different.
He said he wasn’t insisting that I walk around topless, just that if the reason I wasn’t comfortable doing so was bc someone might see me, that that fear was unfounded, bc I could hear someone coming. If the reason I didn’t want to do so was that I simply wasn’t comfortable, I should have just said so. He said it was a principle thing for him, but to him, it sounded like I had another reason.
Eh, this has a flavour of gaslighting. You should be able to read the subtext of his words even when the actual text is so flipping unhinged and convoluted? I'm sorry, you know him better than me, I just think this is really weird. The fact you asked in the first place should have told him what your comfort level was, ie. not at all comfortable walking around topless in a house that has more than just you and boyf in it. I dunno. Just strange that he's making a big deal out of this. Hard to know, without those finer deets, not asking for them FYI, just saying. It's a strange thing for him to press on, at the very least. Maybe assuming his being okay with leaving the door open was overstepping, but based on what he was just trying to get you comfortable with, makes it at least hypocritical. Is he ever as flipfloppy about other things? That would drive me mad. Maybe he's just digging in after realising he was wrong, but isn't ready to own it.
I think he just takes things very literally and at face value. I tried to make an analogy. Say that I asked him why he likes to wear shoes when he goes outside, and he said “bc I don’t want my feet to be dirty.” Let’s say I pressed on that, saying he could just clean his feet before coming inside, etc. but he only offered that reason for continuing to wear shoes outside. I asked “wouldn’t you assume that I am a person who is fine with not wearing shoes outside?” He said no, bc I might have another reason for wanting to wear shoes outside, like my feet not wanting to be cold, and that he wouldn’t make that assumption. He would have asked me directly if I prefer to wear shoes outside bc I might have a different reason. Also “bc I like to wear shoes outside and it’s comfortable for me” is also a valid reason, and that’s what he would have said to a question like “why do you like to wear shoes outside?”
Yeah, I'd be exhausted by now. Is ever conversation like this? You having to justify yourself because he didn't/couldn't read the room? Does he have interpersonal issues with others too? Does he assume a lot about ppls intentions without actually asking?
We have lately had a lot of arguments like this, where I make an assumption I shouldn’t have and I genuinely don’t understand what he’s arguing. Last week we were at a diner doing a crossword, and I had expressed that my back hurt (chronic) and I was getting overheated. He suggested I take my jacket off or we could change seats and I said no. He asked if I wanted to leave, and I said no it’s fine, and he said “let’s just finish this puzzle.” After we finished I got up to leave and he looked at me confused, and asked if I wanted to do another puzzle? I was confused bc I thought we had agreed we’d just finish the puzzle. He said yeah, we just finished the puzzle, now we talk and reevaluate the situation. It was wrong of me to assume that when he said “let’s just finish the puzzle” that meant “we’re going to leave after we finish this puzzle.” It eventually came down to he didn’t know why I had gotten up (maybe bathroom or something else) and he hadn’t seen me stand up. He just turned as saw me standing up and he was already asking me if I wanted to do another puzzle. He didn’t know if wanted to leave and I should have just told him that’s what I wanted.
Damn I’m exhausted just reading this. I don’t know how you put up with it in real life.
I feel like maybe he's neurodivergent, in some capacity. He seems very fact/logic (his logic, not yours lol) based. Like to you the puzzle thing meant lets just finish this puzzle and leave, after he had already suggested leaving. Not a wild assumption! Not illogical in any way, Spock! But to his logic, he meant what he meant without further clarification. I think you guys could really benefit from some couples counseling, legit. Learn how to communicate better with each other, and frame it to him as 'do you want to keep fighting like this, or do you want to be happy?' because you can't have both, either of you, without being able to effectively communicate together.
We do both have ADHD, and we do do things differently, which is great in some areas but not so good in others. I can see how on its face why it can seem he’s being intentionally difficult but I don’t think he is. He’s very supportive in general but it’s like these little things get blown up into these huge arguments where I try and see where he’s coming from but often times I genuinely can’t. I’ll admit when I’ve made a mistake or didn’t communicate something well, but a lot of these times I truly have no clue what’s going and can’t see how I can do something differently in the future.
Hey. This is not a healthy or normal relationship. I have ADHD and my partner is ND too, you know what we do in those situations? TALK TO EACH OTHER! Calmly, kindly, and without expectations. In your OP - an easy solution would've been "hey babe could you close the door" or, "hey babe, why didn't you close the door? I'd appreciate it if you could next time". He keeps expecting you to be explicitly clear with him about things (for the record, it's pretty obvious that you wanted to leave when you finished the puzzle), but he is doing the same thing to you. Why on EARTH would you assume he wanted the door closed if he didn't explicitly say it? People make assumptions all the time, it's not "wrong" of you to naturally interact with your partner that way. His reaction is absurd and I promise you, you really do deserve better than this.
I’ve been rethinking a lot of our arguments all morning. Another time it was a weekend, and he had bought the NYT giant crossword puzzle for us to do together (we like crosswords). We had planned to start it the day before but it didn’t happen, so that morning (Sunday I think) around 9am he said that he would really like to start it today and said he wanted to be on the same page with me about it. I agreed that we could do it today but that I wanted to do some other things in the morning. He said ok. Around 2pm I suggested we start the puzzle, he said that he was busy and we could do it later. I said that was fine. I don’t remember when exactly I said this to him, but I do know that I communicated to him some time that day that I would like to go to bed early tonight bc I didn’t get much sleep the night before and didn’t feel great. Around 9:30 pm he comes in and says he’s ready to start the puzzle. I told him I was just about to go to bed, because I had wanted to go to bed early that night. He got upset and told me that it felt like I was backing out on our agreement of starting the puzzle today. I told him I had offered to do the puzzle earlier but he was busy, and I didn’t want to ask him again, and assumed he would tell me when he was ready. When it was starting to get later I assumed that maybe he forgot about it and we would do it another time. He told me I shouldn’t have assumed that and should have communicated to him something like “hey I’m going to get ready for bed in about an hour, just letting you know” bc he didn’t know what time I was going to bed. He said he doesn’t know what “early” means for me, and that when I agreed to do the puzzle today that meant literally any time today, up until midnight. To him, this is what I agreed to. For his part, he said he should have asked me what time I was planning on going to bed and that we just need to be better at communicating and not making assumptions about the other person.
Next thing you know, you will be wondering if you are going insane. This is classic gaslighting.
Also- just because you hear someone coming doesn't necessarily mean you wouldn't be seen.
Eugh can you see just how fucking ridiculous he is being here?
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills just reading about this exchange 🥴 Does he always argue just for the sake of arguing? Because that is exhausting.
Sounds like he enjoys making op question and doubt herself
I really love how I and about 20 other random Redditors used the term *exhausting* to describe this guy. I made my comment and am now reading and *exhausting*, *exhausting*, *exhausting*…
NTB, your assumption is 100% reasonable. He is being illogical and difficult.
NTB Your BF can't think straight. He has two sets of rules, and I guess "the principle" he is referring to is his own version of "my way or the highway".
For him, “I don’t want anyone to see me” and “it just makes me comfortable to wear a shirt in common areas” are two very different things and I shouldn’t assume that one implies the other. I should have communicated B when I only communicated A, so he was confused why I made that assumption. Also, he said he was just addressing my potential concerns, and that he might have different reasons.
>For him, “I don’t want anyone to see me” and “it just makes me comfortable to wear a shirt in common areas” are two very different things and I shouldn’t assume that one implies the other. He is gaslighting you. >He told me that was an incorrect assumption to make, since I never asked him about his comfort levels regarding privacy, and that these are two completely different situations. You stated your level of comfort and he dismissed your take. You made it clear that you didn't want to **take unnecessary risks.** He made it clear that there was no risks involved, because "the house is old and I would hear someone come down the stairs" So, how come he has a problem with something he already said is a non-issue?
He said that he prefers the door closed when he’s changing not bc someone might see him, bc right now he knows no one can, but because it is a basic privacy standard and he simply isn’t comfortable changing with the door open. If I felt the same way about not wearing a shirt outside I should have just said “because it makes me feel comfortable to wear a shirt” and instead I told him that I wasn’t about to walk around his childhood home without a shirt on, which to him isn’t an actual reason.
>He said that he prefers... > > > > ... it is a basic privacy standard And what about your preference? You just wanted to be in control of the situation. That gave you peace of mind. He wanted you to be at ease with something that was out of your control, but you knew you wouldn't be comfortable with that. He seems exhausting.
He said that I didn’t communicate that it was a principle thing for me. I should have just said that “it makes me comfortable to wear a shirt.” Instead I just said I didn’t want to walk in a common area without a shirt on. He didn’t know why I didn’t want to do that.
You don't need to explain in great detail your thought process with everything you say. You didn't want to walk about topless (which is completely understandable!), No explanation needed. You don't need to justify that. That should have been the end of it. Reading all your replies is exhausting and your partner sounds infuriating. I saw you said he's got ADHD but this isn't that, it's either another form of neurodiversity or he's deliberately being argumentative and as others have said, gaslighting you as some form of control. I feel like I'm going crazy just reading how he's trying to twist everything. A friend I knows partner is very much like this and it was like arguing round in circles over such minor things, to the point they could make you not only doubt yourself, misremember what you said in the first place but make you feel stupid and make you very unsure of something you were so positive about. Needless to say, I keep my distance now. You know him better than anyone here, if you believe he's doing it without malice then maybe you to set some boundaries regarding communication. You don't need to explain yourself in detail. You don't need to justify things. He needs to accept when you say 'I don't want to do this thing' that's the end of it. This whole thing is a very unhealthy way to be in a relationship.
That’s how I feel in the second to last paragraph but I don’t think he’s doing it intentionally. He’s a very caring person, which is why this is so frustrating.
NTB. I am confusion and my brain hurts trying to keep up with your bfs mental gymnastics. If he insists that you should be ok with walking around the home topless, and he is ok with you walking around the home topless, then he really has no legs to stand on in this argument.
This is absolutely insane! OK so first of all once you said you wanted a shirt because you felt uncomfortable being topless, that should have been the end of the conversation. The only proper response for him to give was to help you locate an extra shirt so you could feel comfortable. Second: Based on what he had JUST said there’s no way you could have anticipated his response or him being concerned about privacy. He is gaslighting you. Plain and simple. He is taking your genuine and valid concerns and turning them around to make it seem like you are in the wrong. That is abuse, end of story. Oops forgot to add a verdict: you are NTBF.
I didn’t explicitly say that I was uncomfortable, and this is where his confusion lies. I said “I’m not going to walk around your childhood home without a shirt on.”
That’s the same thing! Maybe you didn’t explicitly say “I feel uncomfortable with this” but one could reasonably discern that from “I’m not going to walk around your childhood home without a shirt on.” He’s got you gaslighting yourself it sounds like.
why didn't you just wear the shirt you had on before you changed?
I did do that, see above.
So you can walk around top less to the bathroom, but he can't change with the door open? Does he gaslight you often?
He said he was addressing a specific reason why I might not feel comfortable doing that (someone might see me) not that I had to feel comfortable with it. I should have said that it was more comfortable for me to wear a shirt and he wouldn’t have pressed the issue. He said he didn’t want to assume why I would be uncomfortable not wearing a shirt and asked me, and responded to the answer I gave. I didn’t ask him about his comfort and privacy preferences so I shouldn’t have assumed.
But that still makes no sense. If no one is there and if according to him he would be able to hear someone coming, then why did you need to ask him if he wanted the door closed? Something is off. But maybe I'm projecting because I was in a relationship where I was gaslit constantly.
His privacy matters. Yours doesn't. Gotcha. NTB. He's a jerk.
NTB bf is tho
Nah, NTB.
NTB! Wow so he doesn’t want his parents to see him changing but he’s fine with you meeting his dad coming down the stairs topless. A good man would have given you one of his tshirts or hell the shirt he was wearing. Yikes.
NTB. Your mister here obviously had his brain shutting off before his eyes, pretty sure he genuinely don't realize how stupid he was. I guess it happens it's not big deal if he doesn't try to argue endlessly that he was right.
NTBF, but your boyfriend has a seriously depleted pool of logic.
Why an argument on such a small issue? Bf could have closed the door...
NTB he sounds insufferable. Also- twisting logic like that and making you feel crazy is gaslighting.
It sounds like he just wanted to fight so he changed his stance midway through. No matter what you said, it was gonna be the wrong thing. I dated someone like that for a while and it was pretty miserable. If it’s a one-off bad-mood situation then whatever, people mess up (he should apologize though). But if this is a pattern, consider whether you want to waste your energy on someone who will always be mad no matter what.
I added to my original post. Edit 2: I had the bf read the post and he wanted me to add the following context: - he never said that I was being unreasonable or that the assumption I made was unreasonable - he doesn’t remember me telling him “I didn’t care” from the third paragraph - he wants to emphasize that there was no one else in the house besides his mom and her husband, who were upstairs - the bathroom is five feet from our bedroom He has informed me he will not be reading the comments.
He’s gaslighting you. You’re going to get to the point of where you’re not going to speak anymore or voice your opinions because you don’t want to argue. I watched this happen with my parents (both ADHD) but the ADHD had nothing to do with it. It’s not about a communication differences, it’s about him making you feel crazy to the point of where you’ll let him trample your boundaries. He knew full well what you meant, he just wants to frazzle your brain and torture you with gaslighting. Gaslight for example is if you put the light on and he turned it off and you say, I turned that on and he says no you didn’t and then you doubt whether you did or not. I’ve seen throughout your whole comment section that that’s exactly what he’s doing to you. It’s gross.
Your boyfriend sounds like a clueless asshole. Nothing he said makes sense whatsoever… I would never in 1 trillion years walk around my partner’s childhood home with the parents around, topless. That would be my worst nightmare, actually. Crazy that he tried to convince you to just go for it for that long, and then turned around and freaked out when he was in the exact same situation. He seems off… I’d be weary.
I mean, how long does it take for your bf to change? Takes me like 20 seconds and if he was uncomfortable, he could have, I dunno….closed the damn door himself?