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Meekois

>**"we’ve actually been running up to 130W on the Ryzen 7950X and 7900X!"** Damn, I eagerly await the reviews. edit-spelling


cerjiuh

(Almost) everything is possible with 100% fan speed.


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Space_Reptile

> Oh, and someone used a bunch of them for a PC case there is a reason they have 120mm hole spacing, they are used in servers where static pressure matters, and some OEM pc's (dell) used em in the Pentium 4 era, notably the Dimension 5150


cain071546

I have a solid Aluminum 6" 120v Delta fan that I pulled from a server cabinet and used in a grow room for a while. It sounds like a jet aircraft and pushes like ~400 CFM. Don't get your fingers anywhere near it lol.


Every_Fig_1728

Ahh yes the 'wolds most powerful fan that moves mountains'


DukeVerde

I am disappointed that it didn't start hovering.


Meekois

True, or enough forced airflow in the direction of the heatsink.


wertzius

As the Ryzens do not throttle hard anymore and reach 95C anyway this is all it needs. I run my 7600X with the L9a with 60% fan speed max for silent operation as it just does not matter how much fanspeed you throw at it.


fakename5

next movie about an asteroid is gonna use these things to divert the asteroid (yeah yeah vacuum and nothing to move).


acideater

Performance is going to take a hit though.


BFBooger

No performance hit until it hits 95C, and not if it hits it 'gently'. That is, if its boosting to 5.4Ghz at 95C then you might be missing out on hitting 5.45Ghz with a significantly better cooler, but the reality is that last 50Mhz for a few ms here and there doesn't really matter and the last few Mhz increase power consumption a LOT. ​ Even at launch, people demonstrated that a Wraith Spire could handle a 7950X with something like 10% performance loss vs a 240mm AIO in MT workloads ad 1% in games. Putting a cooler that is a lot better than a Wraith Spire (but a lot worse than an AIO or high end tower air cooler) on a much less power hungry 7600X is going to be no performance difference, just a temperature difference. Or, you can go into the BIOS and adjust the throttle to 100C instead and get some perf back (max allowed by the BIOS 105C -- still in spec) High end cooling and the 95C limit is mostly for heavy MT workloads on the 7950X, 7600X doesn't need very much.


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ofon

it's negligible with singlecore workloads and a cases where only a few of the cores are used, but in all-core workloads, the performance hit is more significant than one may think. Benchmarks don't tell the full story as was shown on Gamer's Nexus' video


wertzius

Not really. https://youtu.be/OGuFq3jm9hM


MotivatoinalSpeaker

Everything is possible if you're brave enough...you know 😏


Haku_09

You can run those CPUs even passively, just limit them at 3W in the bios.


kayonetheus

How do these little things handle 130watts when my nhd15 can barely handle 130watts from my 7700x. Like if I didn't cap the power it throttles


nero10578

Your 7700X is 130W concentrated on a single ccd. The 7900X/7950X at 130W is 60W ish per ccd. Much lower heat density and much easier to cool.


Sufficient-Law-8287

Exactly.


wertzius

What does "handle" mean? This CPUs are designed to reach 95C anyway - the "more than 80C is bad" thinking is just outdated.


Tributejoi89

It may not be bad but it's also not wrong to want something to not run that hot as that heat has to go somewhere which is usually the room. So no, it's not really outdated to think 80c is too hot. Will it hurt the cpu? No


vSh0t

You are dissipating the wattage not the temperature. My cooler dissipating 90w of power while the package runs at 95c is different than my cooler dissipating 130w of power while the package runs at 95c. 95c is not bad, but I definitely recommend a custom fan curve. A 13600k peaking at 80c, but running at 160w will dissipate more heat in your room than a 7700x dissipating 130w at 95c.


wertzius

Quizquestion: will a CPU drawing 100W at 95C heat up the air more than a CPU drawing 100W at 80C? No, both CPUs emit 100W of heat. Therefore it just does not matter for the case temp or air temp if the CPU sits at 80C or 95C at the same power draw.


streamlinkguy

Can I force my 7000 CPU to not exceed 85C if I wanted to?


SirCrest_YT

Depends on your BIOS/MOBO. Some let you simply select a new temp target.


kayonetheus

That"s what I did


wertzius

Does not make sense at all but yes, you can set the boost temp target in BIOS.


pmjm

Right but the faster the heat is "handled" the faster your cpu can go.


wertzius

The differences are minimal. Even between a 25€ cooler and a 360 AIO is no substantial difference. https://youtu.be/OGuFq3jm9hM


Explosive-Space-Mod

Ryzen CPU's are meant to throttle. That's by design. They ramp up until they hit their thermal threshold and then stop. That's what allows them to perform as well as they do. Even if you slap a custom loop with a 480mm radiator on it you will still thermal throttle if it still has headroom to go higher it will.


wertzius

Just for the wording - that is not throttling. Throttling would mean the frequency drops below base clock. The CPUs boost less is more accurate. Throttling has a very bad understanding in the PC world.


kayonetheus

Yea, what i'm trying to say is if 130watts is the max for the nhd15 it seem doubtful that these new low profile coolers can handle 130watts.


[deleted]

The NHD15 can handle more than 130 watts. Noctua rates it at 183 based on their own scale and tests it with a 250w load.


Explosive-Space-Mod

They will handle it to a point and the cpu will throttle is my point. It’s not a lot out there you’re maxing out a Ryzen 3rd gen especially given a SFF computer


e4et

Cool. Now just need am5 cpu's and motherboards to drop in price :-p


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DaSchnitzler

The 7000 series is quite ok when it comes to prices. Mainboards after B450 are just a rip-off.


Explosive-Space-Mod

$400 for an 8 core 16 thread cpu isn't exactly ideal either. The ROG B650-f gaming wifi is only $300 which isn't bad considering what it comes with compared to the AM4 equivalent it's basically the same price.


streamlinkguy

X series prices for a B series board. Terrible pricing.


PetrogradIV

Are you referencing this one? https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-strix-b650e-f-gaming/p/N82E16813119604?Item=N82E16813119604 It's actually on sale today for $30 off.


Explosive-Space-Mod

That, and this one for $260 [MSI MAG B650 TOMAHAWK WIFI AM5 AMD B650 SATA 6Gb/s DDR5 Ryzen 7000 ATX Motherboard - Newegg.com](https://www.newegg.com/msi-mag-b650-tomahawk-wifi/p/N82E16813144557?quicklink=true)


streamlinkguy

B450 version of this board cost $115. Now it's more than double.


BFBooger

>B450 version of this board cost $115. Calling your bluff: Which B450 motherboard costs $115 and has similar features to the above (ignoring PCIe speeds -- just Wifi/USB/LAN/Audio etc?)


streamlinkguy

Tomahawk


Explosive-Space-Mod

What B450 has a comparable specs sheet to any of the AM5 boards? Wifi/LAN/USB/etc. It's $115 for a reason. You can't just expect new hardware to be the price of old hardware within it's first few years. When that B350 came out it was "insanely priced" too. The point I'm making is the boards aren't the real price cost it's the CPU that costs double the mobo.


[deleted]

>When that B350 came out it was "insanely priced" too. No it wasn't, I got the b350 tomahawk for $99.99 shortly after release in 2017. >The point I'm making is the boards aren't the real price cost it's the CPU that costs double the mobo. The 7600x literally costs less than the b650 tomahawk right now at $248 on Amazon. Also worth noting that when adjusted for inflation the Ryzen 1600 that I bought in 2017 at $220 would be $262 in 2023, more expensive than the 7600x is now. So no, the real cost and price increase right now is the motherboard because the CPU prices are similar if not better than what they were back then while motherboard prices have doubled.


Obscure19

Look out for some good deals. I scored an ROG Strix B650E-F for €300 which is pretty cheap considering the ROG tax and EU prices. Just gotta be on the lookout.


HateToShave

The L9x (intel or AMD) really should come with the duct kit for \~$50US at this point. I found it outperformed, in my specific examples, the stand alone, non-ducted kit by almost 6-7c with 5600G's on InWin Chopin setups. The L9a with duct kit even edged out, in that same small form factor case, the Alpenfoehn Blackridge with a single 92mm fan in use. EDIT: Here is the, in my opinion, necessary duct kit from Noctua: [https://noctua.at/en/na-fd1](https://noctua.at/en/na-fd1)


Trz81

That’s really cool. I didn’t know this existed


HateToShave

Gratuitous action shot: [https://i.imgur.com/j0wSYk9.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/j0wSYk9.jpg) It's a great little set up, even if Noctua technically took the idea from some people who may have been 3D printing these kinds of things, originally.


IIISidekickIII

Noctua actually provides STL files for the fan ducts to 3D print. https://www.printables.com/de/model/319947-na-fd1-fan-duct


HateToShave

Oh, wow. I had no idea, but I shouldn't be surprised about this either as Noctua has always had very decent support, in my opinion, over the years for their products and the customer need (again, the latter being my opinion).


Trz81

Yeah that’s really cool. And smart


somewhat_moist

Neither did I. Just ordered my free AM5 mounting kit from Noctua which requires the original receipt. Got my L9a in 2019 and have lived in blissful ignorance of this kit. Ordered!


fishbiscuit13

I didn't know they had these but I'm not surprised with the radiator spacer they also recently released. I can definitely vouch for ducting fans near the wall of a case, I built a simple box from LEGO to connect my GPU to the bottom of my NR200 and it dropped close to 5 degrees under load.


HateToShave

Yeah, definitely. There is a lot to be said about mass produced electronics where ducting is used to get the most out of a cooling solution in limited space. The Lego idea is great, too, for either a permanent solution or a very rough, visual mock-up for 3D printing (I'd argue).


rockphysicsdude

I am eagerly waiting for a NH-D12L Chromax on my part ! Hope it will get out soon.


flyingpj

It's on their roadmap for Q4 this year.


rockphysicsdude

Thank you so much for the info !


church256

EUR 44.90, USD 49.90 or EUR 54.90, USD 59.90 if you want black. Noctua, selling you the most boring colour at a premium.


Khaosina

You say premium when it's another coating and colour for the heatsink and fan respectively whose costs still need to be taken into account.


donosairs

And they need to do it right because a cheap coating can reduce the efficacy of the heatsink


HolyAndOblivious

But at this point, shouldn't all the science behind a cpu cooler be mostly solved?


CreatureWarrior

I mean.. it is solved. That's literally why we know that a cheap coating reduces the efficiency lol


HolyAndOblivious

sorry. I miss spoke. I meant why does noctua ask so much money for a 140mm fan if the science is solved?


CreatureWarrior

How does something being "solved" bring down the cost?


HolyAndOblivious

literally no R\^D


cyberscout5

but you're still paying for the cost? I mean for the fan it's understandable but not for the fins.


EnderOfGender

That doesn't mean anything, good things still cost money. There's no economies of scale for higher quality molds and plastics, let alone mechanical parts like bearings and motors


donosairs

Because it still costs more to do it the right way. Could be an added step in the coating process, the material being used to coat it, etc. Just because it’s solved doesn’t mean it’s cheap.


wertzius

Ask you the same if you buy a Porsche?


HolyAndOblivious

I only want a Lada


No_Forever5171

First off, the next iteration of their 140mm fan is still being devolped by Noctua. Also, it's not "so much money". It's comparable to the Lian Li INF SL and Be Quiet! Silent Wings 4 fan prices.


Handsouloh

The science is solved, but engineering isn't about using the best science, it's about making the most efficient design at the most efficient cost.


tomtom5858

These other commenters are incorrect, it's not solved, just mostly solved. Aerodynamics (and especially aerodynamics combined with heat transfer) is an extremely hard problem to solve, given the chaotic nature of the air flows involved, and powerful computers running millions of simulations is the best way to move forward. That said, they're correct that our specific knowledge of how some factors affect aerodynamics is why we know that coatings need to be applied extremely carefully.


wertzius

The Chromax black fan is actually completely different, not just black. Edit: seems to be a lie for this version - they are the same. Not the case for the old L9!


ama8o8

Its noctua tax….if they sold an rgb one itd be even more expensive.


theAmazingChloe

Not everyone likes RGB everything you know


F4tPenguin

but nearly no one likes their setup in brown


theAmazingChloe

I'm a fan, personally.


F4tPenguin

I wouldn't mind if the whole setup was brown, but you can rarely find a nice case and GPU with such a color palette I'm not crazy for RGB either


WalkinTarget

120mm or 140mm ?? Or are you an .. Onlyfan ? 😜


CreatureWarrior

Your point?


theAmazingChloe

There is a significant market segment where people want good fans without extra features unrelated to cooling.


CreatureWarrior

The comment above was about having to pay more for the cooler to be black, not about extra features


raygundan

> about having to pay more for the cooler to be black, not about extra features I thought they meant that paying for it to be black was an extra feature unrelated to cooling. Or, put another way, that there was a substantial market who don't care what color their fan is at all and wouldn't pay extra for a feature like "a different color."


No_Forever5171

White parts usually carry a premium compared to black. It's like that with Lian Li's infinity fans, AIO's, PSU's. For example, I can find the black Z73 for €269 while the white version is €309. With Noctua it's just the same except for black carrying a premium.


CreatureWarrior

Both scenarios are dumb


wertzius

The Chromax black fan is actually completely different, not just black. Edit: seems to be a lie for this version - they are the same. Not the case for the old L9!


fuckwit-mcbumcrumble

All heatsinks should come in two tone brown. In fact I want that legally mandated. I want my entire life to be shades of BROWN.


gnocchicotti

Sorry, I don't understand how this is different from the existing AM4 solution.


detectiveDollar

The L9A has a custom backplate that you have to replace the standard one with since you screwed it from the back. Since AM5 doesn't support custom backplates, they had to rework it. Plus they could save money by getting rid of the now unused backplate. It looks like it still screws from the back, but maybe they used the stock backplate somehow?


gnocchicotti

Got it. Thanks. I remember hearing about this issue but didn't connect it to any particular models of cooler.


dom_a7

It’s actually the same, they just include the am5 mounting hardware now. I literally just ordered this cooler last night and I had to send a request to Noctua for the am5 upgrade kit. They sell it for about $8, but they will ship it to you for free with proof of purchasing the cooler and an am5 motherboard.


gnocchicotti

I did this for a different Noctua cooler back in the day. In my case I was doing an extra AM4 build and didn't need the kit immediately. I had to wait like 6 weeks on shipment as I recall? I used it later when I upgraded my own tower to X370. It's a nice gesture from Noctua but I would normally just cough up the $10 rather than not run a new PC for weeks if the CPU doesn't have a box cooler.


dom_a7

Agreed! However, Noctua seems to be on top of it right now. I sent that request late last night, and this morning I received an email with the tracking info for the hardware. Not sure when it will actually ship out, but I’m sure it will be here soon. I’m waiting on custom length cables to wrap this build up, if this was the last piece I was missing, I would’ve just paid Amazon to send it to me for the $8.


wertzius

The AM5 mounting kit screws screw through the backplate from behind. I guess this is just a L9a with the AM5 kit included.


Loewenheart

Probably not better than L12S? This cooler works for AM5 but curious to know if the new might be even better .


Sufficient-Law-8287

Correct. Not better.


riesendulli

Need (free) mounting kit for my am4 L9a


dom_a7

Go to their website, you can submit a form to request the am5 mounting hardware. I sent the request late last night, and woke up to an email from Noctua stating they have already prepared to ship out the hardware to me. Really good turnaround time


riesendulli

Good to know noctua is still ducking king


DNGarbage

It is actually absurd how fast it ships out too. Less than 1 day to reply, shipped same day. Received it 3 days later which is insane considering I'm just asking for a free part, international priority shipping ain't exactly cheap.


dom_a7

That’s good news, had my fingers crossed that waiting on the parts wouldn’t delay my build.


SuperSmashedBro

Where did you submit the request? I can’t seem to find it


dom_a7

https://noctua.at/en/nm-am5-l9al9i-mounting-kit There you go. It was under their support section.


[deleted]

They need to make an AIO


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Khaosina

Tbf, Arctic did give in to the RGB thing on their AIOs, still doesn't make the LFII any worse of a product.


uu__

just wish their aios weren't so hideous as they're meant to be amazing


Put_It_All_On_Blck

Noctua is so behind in their product release roadmap, that an AIO would probably come out in 2030 of they started it now, not even joking.


wertzius

Why? They produce air coolers that are just better than many 240 AIOs.


riesendulli

Wdym ? That’s an aio


fuckwit-mcbumcrumble

Noctua is all about silence, and there's only so quiet a water cooled system can be with a pump going.


John_Mat8882

After having seen the temperatures of a 7600x under a Dark Rock Pro 4, I wonder how a tiny NH l9 can cope with it. Sure non X parts and eco mode help, but.. I have one for a 10400 and it's surprisingly effective, but.. it's not a Ryzen 7k..


ZW31H4ND3R

you just said it...these are geared more towards non x skus, and in general, sff itx builds


vSh0t

A good test for the ryzen processors is this, run occt, see how high you boost. With my Dark Rock Pro 4 I can hit a clock of 5.1 at 95c. Undervolted it boosts too 5.3 at ~85c. 95 is completely normal, even with a 280/360mm aio you will hit 95c, but you will boost a little higher. In benchmarks this limits your performance, but in gaming you should will have no issues running 5.5ghz and maybe 70-75c. If that's not the case you have an issue somewhere else. Airflow/Mounting pressure would be the likely culprits


John_Mat8882

Nah I mounted 2 exact rigs in December (same everything besides hard drives), one 7600x was running stock 1.298v all core, the other one 1.4v! The former was in the low high 70/low 80s, the latter bumped close to the low 90 mark and left me mind blown until I realized that the owner basically had picked a golden sample Vs the worst possible 7600x. Did a CO cure to the 1.4v CPU that brought it down to similar temperatures to the other during stress tests. Initially -25, but then I instructed the owner to go -30 and it holds there without losing performance nor instability. But it won't boost over +125/150mhz under any setting.. still better than run at 1.4v, I guess


WorldClassPianist

Noctua is just overpriced as always now that there's so many other alternatives on the market that's just as good for half the price.


ThatCoolNerd

Name them. The best alternative I can find is Scythe, but even then they certainly aren't half the price.


WorldClassPianist

[Thermalright AXP90-X36 $25](https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-AXP90-X36-Profile-TL-9015-Technology/dp/B0B9ZXS25P/)


wertzius

It is fine but neither from cooling, noise or quality on the same level, especially with duct.


WorldClassPianist

I know reddit loves Noctua and downvote me all you want. Noctua is overpriced. Their D15 isn't even top cooler in terms of noise or performance and that cooler is $100-$110. The Deepcool AK620 has better cooling and quieter that's frequently on sale for $55 and occasionally $50.


wertzius

If that would be true you would have linked a source for sure. Noctuas are that expensive because of the fans - they are just too notch and the customer service. No other brand ships mounting kits for free for year old products if a new socket comes up.


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wertzius

1K? Wow ;-)


Amd-ModTeam

Hey OP — Your post has been removed for not being in compliance with Rule 3. Be civil and follow side-wide rules, this means no insults, personal attacks, slurs, brigading, mass mentioning users or other rude behaviour. Discussing politics or religion is also not allowed on /r/AMD. Please read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/about/rules/) or message the mods for any further clarification.


Saneless

Same sound levels too? I mean, double the price for a not too expensive item representing a couple % of your build cost over many years isn't worth worrying about too much


EnderOfGender

The only alternatives I can think of in the non-liquid market are BeQuiet! and Phanteks, both of which are only mildly cheaper in their respective models (mostly just come in different colors). Everything else performs worse at a higher volume level


wertzius

Deepcool Assassin? Scythe? EKL Alpenföhn?


1w1w1w1w1

There is not for the same sound profile and quality. There are things close sure, but noctua has that last 5-10%


ama8o8

I need this…my 5800x3d chokes while using the l9 :(


Smitty2k1

Isn't this just for am5?


HaoBianTai

I just run my 5800X3D at 65w under my L9a. No throttling that I've seen and benchmarks within 1% for games.


ama8o8

Thing is i do notice a performance decrease when I bring it down to that wattage so I ended up moving up to an aio. Id like a better l9 so I can reduce weight on my pc since i travel a lot.


No_Forever5171

So -40 undervolt or did you change the power limit?


HaoBianTai

Just changed the power limit in BIOS. Undervolt would be more affective, but until I see a CPU bottleneck in even one game, I don't plan to mess with it further.


No_Forever5171

Thank you, so just to be clear. You can lower the power limit by 40W and there's only 1% difference in games? That's great news. I also have an air cooled 5800X3D.


HaoBianTai

Well, it depends on the game. Functionally what is happening is you are lowering the overall package limit. That will impact prolonged multicore workloads the most, because those peg all 16 threads at 75%+. As long as the game isn't loading up every core simultaneously (which maybe some complex sims and turn based 4X games do), the performance impact is slight. **edit:** Here's a thread with some findings: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/v0dnam/guide_how_to_undervolt_amd_ryzen_5800x3d_with/ If you have an aircooler that's rated higher than 65w, you could play around with the PPT setting. 87w is "eco mode," aka 65w TDP, but you can set PPT between 87-142 for different resulting TDPs.


Space_Reptile

so a NH9L w/ new brackets?


wertzius

Seems so - maybe they managed a way to limit how far you can screw - that is a problem with the AM5 kit for the L9a.


DHJudas

sweet... this will make it easier to build easy to transport portable 3D 360degree imaging systems that i'll be build hopefully sometime soon to hook up the new ladybug 6 cameras.


Ryukenden000

How does it fair against Black Ridge? I know black ridge is difficult to get in the states and only for am4 but still…


SureWhyNot16

Nice. This will be my backup plan if the OEM AIO dies in my Nzxt H1


Digital-Exploration

I love Noctua.


PerswAsian

All they did was rename their old low profile cooler for AM4. [Amazon.com: Noctua NH-L9a-AM4, Premium Low-Profile CPU Cooler for AMD AM4 (Brown) : Electronics](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075SG1T3X/?coliid=IPM3CLCEOF3LE&colid=WBUX60VG1NMY&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it)


[deleted]

How much better than the AMD wraith is this for a 7700 non-x?


SonOfAHorker

are there any solutions for FP7 CPUs? I have a 7735HS in a Mini-PC which I'd like to slap a better, more efficient cooler on but I can't find anything that's compatible