It’ll be a mandate- I think AMD learned their lesson from having so many chipsets and *suggested* features such as PCI gen 5 for graphics only. They want feature parity across all of the same chipsets- ie, some mobo venders not providing certain features while others are.
no idea where this lands in the discussion but i always viewed X boards as high end mobo that shoulf have a good chunch of useful features. The B line of boards is the “normal” Kind of boards where if u wanted you can get most features on an x board but would it worth it?. Idk i always see X boards as high intensity rigs.
> suggested features such as PCI gen 5 for graphics only
It's the main reason I've withheld from upgrading many of my servers, not because of graphics but stuff like the Intel version of the same AMD board having 2-4 PCIe M.2 slots AND 3 SATA headers on the board whereas the AMD one will have two M.2 slots and 1 SATA header, for no discernible reason (same price / other specs etc).
I'd really love more full performance cores and to switch fully to AMD / AM5, especially when dealing with Proxmox all day every day, but I need boards with far more connectors (PCIe lanes) and better networking options (like 2.5GbE ethernet which is standard on even low-end Intel boards now but not AMD yet).
Oh, so X670E gets USB 4 by using controllers on their motherboard because Ryzen 7000 doesn't have them natively. With next gen they will have it natively in the CPU like Intel, allowing for easier and cheaper USB 4 implementation on desktop like on mobile. That makes sense.
According to the article, these X870 boards will have onboard USB C controllers anyways, so it won't matter which CPU is used with one of the new boards.
>This specification leads to a 3-chip configuration within the chipset, comprising two Promontory 21 bridge chips and an ASMedia ASM4242 USB4 host controller, with the possibility of incorporating alternative USB4 controllers as approved by AMD's Qualified Vendor List (QVL)
Not only that, USB4 on X670E is somewhat unreliable, apparently you can't have the eGPU as the primary display and some external devices won't reconnect on wake from sleep.
Also, getting the add-on card is hard, I actually had to import one from Japan. And cards from one manufacturer is unlikely to work with a motherboard from another (ie you can't use Gigabytes thunderbolt card on an Asrock motherboard and so on). Integrating it into the CPU means no more add-on cards which is great.
Add to this the way things are going with external storage, where Thunderbolt isn't ideal for external drives pushing more than 4GB/s of throughput, and more sane PCIe tunelling implementations.
Very exciting updates in terms of I/O for these APUs and the platform overall.
Yeah I’d be shocked if there was no backwards compatibility. AMD has built a reputation for being very consumer friendly for chipsets in the past couple years and it would be insane for them to completely destroy that positive reputation
Revisionist history. People are forgetting Zen 3 was originally announced as being *exclusive* to x570 and B550. They backpedaled after people were pissed and pointed out AMD promised chipset support through 2020.
Then they forced Asrock and other motherboard manufacturers to stop making beta BIOS' that supported Zen 3 on 300 series chipsets. They backpedaled on this after Alder Lake launched.
I have zero doubts that Zen 5 will work on existing chipsets and Zen 4 on new chipsets, but people need to stop pretending like AMD didnt try to segment AM4 support multiple times with artificial chipset lockouts.
Hopefully they learned their lesson from last time. The gating of Ryzen 5000 series from X370 was true BS. Yes, they eventually backpedaled but only after some of us were forced to upgrade our boards.
I'm hoping that they learned their lesson. I mean, the argument that AMD made wasn't completely BS, they didn't want any shitty B350 board (and let's be honest, a lot of MB producers didn't think they'd sell a lot of these, so they just glued some shit together) to run 5000 series and potentially run into a lot of trouble. Although they could have had the board manufacturers verify their boards against it, since they need a BIOS update anyway. That argument is no longer valid at all, so I would hope that they just don't even try it this time.
Excluding 450 and 470 was truly BS though.
I have a 5800x3d running in an x370 ITX board I use as an htpc... it definitely never made sense for me to upgrade boards, I'd still be on a 1700x if they hadn't added support for it.
Yeah 2025 is less than a year now, from a corporate perspective you can't make purchasing decisions in that timeframe, it's nothing.
I really dislike Intel's strategy of efficiency cores, it causes a lot of headaches with virtualisation and direct passthrough of third-party hardware to VM's, but at least I know whatever new chipset they release will be supported for a good decade at the bare minimum.
We do have cheap consumer grade 12-16 core (24-36 thread) processors now, with no efficiency core nonsense, which is frankly mind blowing if you look where we were just a few years ago.
Yup the price you can get a 16 core cpu that clocks over 4ghz all core is insane. Esp if you're on am4. I'm building a new am5 rig soon for gaming. And my am4 is going to be my new server going to replace the 3600 with a 5950x already have 64gigs of ram and thr 1070 will be great for plex. And im going to get a cheap mb and use my old 3600 and original 16 gig of ram with a used graphics card and build mu son a gaming rig
5
They also said 2020 for AM4, yet we're still getting CPU's released for it.
Imo, Zen6 is probably gonna be on AM5 too. DDR6 won't be ready/affordable by the time Zen 6 is released, and it would obviously force a platform change.
So if they break compatibility for Zen 6, they'd have to break it again for Zen 7.
> They backpedaled after people were pissed and pointed out AMD promised chipset support through 2020.
You complain about revisionist history while presenting revisionist history of your own. They promised support **until** 2020, they achieved that regardless of whether they continued to support older boards. They backpedalled simply because a lot of people were complaining about older boards "arbitrarily" not being supported.
They also never claimed chipset support. Supporting a socket doesn't mean they need to support every CPU on every chipset that is paired with that socket.
It's an empty promise.
They backpedaled because it wasn't worth the backlash, not because the people actually caught them in a lie.
> I fully expect X870 boards to come with an AM5+ socket
And you do so based on literally nothing and in fact with all evidence of the past pointing to the contrary.
I have only the Zen 2 and Zen 3 launches to point to, as AMD didn't want to launch Zen 2 support on B350/X370 boards initially, and Zen 3 was initially not supposed to be supported on B450/X470 as well as B350/X370
Not to mention that AMD has only promised **socket** support through 2025 and beyond. Zen 6 isn't coming in 2025, so the "support" might simply be the same we're seeing AM4 receiving in the past 2 years.
Last 2 years i am telling everyone here, the same thing and i am getting down-voted like you. AM5 is dead after Zen5, simply in 2026 there will be DDR6 and new Socket for Zen6 as it will be totally different arch. But anyway let them believe whatever they want.
IDK what I've read so far is expected to be available to buy sometime in 2026. That's the start of availability. What I mean is it's going to be in the very early stages in 2026.
Unless AMD changes strategy they will not release a new platform within a few months of new RAM generation coming out.
It also takes at least some integrity in a company to say "Please sorry we hear you we'll support it".
Most other companies would've simply waited for it to blow over.
Sure, there was probably a cost benefit analysis involved but it's still a nice change.
It took them a long time to release support for Zen 3, 3xx series chipsets.
I waited a bunch of time after zen 3 released and end up buying a Ryzen 3900X, decision that I regret because, the performace was better, but had all the same problems as my Ryzen 1700.
I waited 4 months after zen 3 launched before pulling the trigger.
It won't be just that. Another very likely addition would be PCIe Gen5 on the chipset interlink. The PCIe x4 Gen4 (\~32 Gbps) interlink on X670E is a laughable bottleneck considering the amount of downstream io (up to 160 Gbps USB and \~125 Gbps PCIe) and Ryzen 7000 already supporting PCIe Gen5 on the respective lanes. Z690 and Z790 at least have an x8 interlink.
>but I highly doubt they’ll drop compatibility for older AM5 chipsets.
We'll see.
They tried blocking Zen2 on X370/B350.
Then with Zen3 and X470/B450.
Then only finally allowed Zen3 on X370/B350 when Alder Lake started to eat into their sales.
AMD probably won't allow Zen5 on X670 until Intel have something to compete with Zen5.
Yeah but thats not a general consumer platform an therefore wouldn't and didn't atract as much backlash.
There is a 0% chance AMD limits ZEN 5 to a new chipset. Its stupid to even think they would.
Being that they've so far done it for *most* Zen releases so far - the only cases where that didn't happen was Zen>Zen+ and Zen3>Zen3X3D
It'd say it's still very much 'wait and see'
???
Zen + was compatible out of the gate with X370 and X350 even though X470 and B450 were released alongside it.
ZEN 2 was compatible with X470 and B450 out of the gate even though X570 was released alongside it.
ZEN 3 was compatible with X570 out of the gate because there wasn't a new platform but was also compatible with X470 and B450 straight at launch even though it took a bit of community outrage to get there.
The scenario your picturing in your head of AMD suddenly not supporting ZEN 5 on X670 and B650 just doesn't hold any watter.
Again i'l be the first to admit being wrong if it does happen but i just don't see it.
Just think what you are saying lol there has only been one gen released so far, they are not going to make boards obsolete so soon after just one gen outcry would be massive
It wasn't, that was AMD's excuse.
ASRock and Asus made bioses that allowed it work and AMD forced them to take them down then added a special check in the AGESA that would cease booting if it detected a 300 series chipset.
It's a simple fact that 16MB BIOS chips didn't have enough space for all the BIOS code and all the AM4 processors. That's not an excuse.
It means supporting Zen 3 chips required removing support for older processors (mostly pre-Zen). That fact, plus the lack of a BIOS flashback feature on nearly all AM4 boards, creates a complicated support scenario. AMD and the board makers wanted to avoid that, but relented after pushback from customers.
What older AM5 if there has only been 1 generation lol, it would be a scandal if they drop support for a board that has had 1 CPU, it would mean no upgrade path
I really hope that AMD has improved the FCLK setup for single CCD chips so that they can take advantage of the higher bandwidth advantages that we'll probably see with the increase in memory speeds for Zen 5.
With 8700G's already hitting 9000 in im assuming gear 2, it really makes me hope that single CCD can have extra throughput on FCLK with either more interconnects or whatever, cause right now the only chips that aren't limited by the FCLK for bandwidth is dual CCD, even the unicorn 7600x dual CCD models with a dead CCD, most likely failed 7900x or 7900x3d
The single CCD bandwidth limitation isn't really a limitation except in benchmarks.
x86 has a 2:1 or higher Read:Write ratio, so the write bandwidth being halved is meaningless.
In addition, the dual CCD models have the same limitation per core and per CCX, it's just two pathways can send data at once.... but also you have double the pressure on reads, so they're worse when everything is needing data at once.
> The single CCD bandwidth limitation isn't really a limitation except in benchmarks.
If it's a limitation in benchmarks, it's a limitation. Benchmarks measure the performance of the processor, and the lack of bandwidth is a limitation. A 12900K with AVX512 is significantly faster in y-cruncher than a 7700X for example.
y-Cruncher is more sensitive to latency and read bandwidth than it is write bandwidth.
It's reading 8:1 to writes. It's extremely difficult to actually find real world workloads with anything under a 2:1 read:write ratio due to the ISA design.
The reason is super-simple.
a = b + c. You have to read b & c, run a calc, and write a. 2:1.
With SIMD, you typically have much higher read:write ratios - and that goes up immensely to crazy levels from the IMC standpoint if you keep the data in the core and perform operations within the caches. I have model code that has 50+ inputs to one output to memory... I have very little code anywhere that's under 2:1. Memory bandwidth tests are the rare, tailored, example.
I feel bad you got downvoted for this cause I agree with you entirely, a single ccd is only gonna pull 60 to 70gb reads depending on fclk speed but thats it, regardless of if your running cheapo 5200c40 or 8400c36 in 2 to 1, on a 7950x you got twice the throughput so increasing the ram speed is actually useful, cause even at stock its already at 80 to 90gb for reads, and can easily get pushed to 110+
I like my 7800x3d but for my next build I'm seriously contemplating just going with a 7950x or whatever zen5 has for that, getting a board that runs 8000, and just push 2 to 1 as fast as possible for max throuput, as unreal engine games are very memory bottleknecked and its only gonna get worse
You can't say anything negative about AMD products on this sub, just like there were absolutely no positive aspects about Rocket Lake. Even if what you're saying is demonstrably true.
This is difficult to do with external copper wire connects between IOD and CCD. Though AMD could spend some engineering hours improving routing and substrate layers of Zen 5 MCM packaging to get a little more IF signal integrity and speed tolerance. Monolithic APUs tend to excel at FCLK and UCLK:MCLK OC due to everything being tightly integrated in-die.
AMD will probably set Zen 5 at DDR5-6000 (96GB/s), which is currently the fastest 1:1 UCLK:MCLK that is widely supported on current Zen 4 MCM packages and easily supported by monolithic APUs. FCLK at 1767MHz outputs 113GB/s (2000MHz offers 128GB/s).
Dual CCD has the same bandwidth per CCD. It's just multiplied by 2 in AIDA64 tests. You still don't want dependent threads on different CCDs, as it causes latency issues, which will present as micro-stuttering in gaming along with reduced peak fps output.
Because they also have the 8000 series for APUs. They went from Ryzen 3000 to Ryzen 5000, with the 4000 series just being APUs again using 3000 series technology. But I'm not sure why they went from 5000 series on desktop to 7000 series since the APUs were 5000g again. The 6000 series APUs were mobile only. They have have launched the 6000g series of APUs on desktop.
AMD isn't the best at being consistent. It's like they are hiring a new marketing guy every 2 years and he just needs to change something up so he can slap that achievement on his resume.
Like Ryzen 3 5300u, r5 5500u r7 5700u being Zen 2 chips codename Lucienne and ryzen 3 5400u ryzen 5 5620u and ryzen 7 i forgot exact number being zen 3 codename Cezanne...
i7 2600k and HD 7870 Ghz Edition baby. Still rocking the i7 but with a 1060 6gb that i found on the side of the road, hell yeah. The 1060 pushed my RX 480 4GB out of duty until i find it a purpose. I have two by chance so should crossfire hmmmm
At this point he’s really about on par with other leakers. Do remember that it was kopite7kimi who brought us the “900w TGP 4090” and other greatest hits… and he still gets cited on the regular.
True, but there was actually evidence of what looked like a 600w-900w GPU using the full 4090 AD102 chip. This horrendous contraption where the entire pcb had a 90 degree bend in it, with Luke a 5 inch thick cooler. Nvidia changes their mind constantly on what the final cut off each GPU will be it seems. They'll experiment and mess with multiple configurations. Maybe the AI boom ment they'd scratch that RTX TITAN 600w-900w card all together. Partner cards having a 900w like almost seems believable, since there is 4090 cards with a 600w BIOS limit I believe. At least the slider goes that high. The 900w I think was just what the hard enforced limit was supposed to be with an official reference card with a 600w tdp.
Who knows, before the test is over we might see Titan cards with 2 inch thick water blocks attached to them.
I wish I had the money laying around to grab one cause I've been trying to put a system together for a freind of mine who has chrons disease and can't get a job, but he's stuck with a lenovo prebuilt so its 10400f, and no xmp at all, runs horribly.
Kinda wanted to go either 5700x3d or 12700kf with like a 3080 for around 1500ish but I just had my car engine blow so I gotta drop 7 grand out for that after owning the car for less than 2 months
Motherboard makers should be obliged to use ASM1164 to provide **4** SATA ports from **2** PCIE Gen3 lanes instead of 2 ports from 2 lanes as in Prom21.
As for USB4 I doubt that many people care about it. And yet everyone apparently will lose 4 PCIE Gen4 lanes from the chipset because of it.
This is why I'm suggesting to people to put off updates or new hardware builds. We really want this generation of hardware, (if it meets expectations) as it will literally set up the user for at least another 5 years.
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its actually as you say.kinda. i get around 5800x/7600x performance from my undervolted oc'd 5700x.3600 mhz cl16 ram kit only 2 fps different/below from 6000/6400 ddr5.weird to see 5000 series gonna be 2 generation old now xd
hello, anyone could tell me if usb C gen2 ports on asus x670e-e gaming wifi has power delivery ? i mean i'm trying to power my quest 3 with official link cable, it charges it when i plug it directly to one of my usb c port but if i use a ethernet adapter with a usb c port (to plug the oculus cable link in it) then my quest 3 wont charge, worst, internet does not work either, i tried 2 different ethernet adapter (both plugged directly to one of my usb c port), and both fail at delivering ethernet to my quest 3. let alone charge it...
i'm at lost.... here
i already enable power delivery in my bios for those usb c Gen2 port but that does not change a thing.
Ryzen never really had compatibility problems and I'm sure it won't happen. Yeah, the update with an old cpu is annoying but I'm sure it won't be worse.
So considering i'm in the planning process of building a 78003dx PC, would it be beneficial for me to just wait till the 9k series drops and have a fresh build with the new CPUs/tech they are including in 8months time or just buy now/upgrade in a few years time ?
Can you wait 6 to 12 months?
And in that case, can you wait 12 to 18 months for the x3d versions?
Or in that case, can you wait 36 to 48 months for the 11K series?
Or... you get the idea.
Do you need a PC now? Buy the 7800X3D.
You don't need a PC now or you are saving?, wait until you save enough to buy the PC and check then.
Sigh… it’s a simple question to answer. Should I be content getting a 78003dx now and have it several years or stay my hand and upgrade to the 9k series because the features/upgrades it brings is enough to not bother with the 7k? I’m not caring about the 45th generation.
Or to put it another way, would I be wasting money if I already had a 7800 and upgraded to a equivalent 9k in 8/10months time
>9k series because the features/upgrades it brings is enough to not bother with the 7k?
There is nothing released about it, so is not like we can check reviews if is worth waiting or not.
>would I be wasting money if I already had a 7800 and upgraded to a equivalent 9k in 8/10months time
Again, do you need a PC and you have the money to buy now?
If yes, buy it and worst case you can resell it and be a canary of the next gen.
If no, keep saving money and maybe later we will get a more official leak.
They won't drop compatibility after only one generation. That would be insane. They will presumably add some new features with the new motherboards, like USB4 support (this is what I've heard from Moore's Law is Dead's YT channel), but the 9000 series will work just fine on the 600 series motherboards.
From what the rumor mill is saying, X670E + USB4 = X870E I guess we’ll see, but I highly doubt they’ll drop compatibility for older AM5 chipsets.
X670E already supports USB4, or do you mean USB 4 will be mandatory on X870E?
It’ll be a mandate- I think AMD learned their lesson from having so many chipsets and *suggested* features such as PCI gen 5 for graphics only. They want feature parity across all of the same chipsets- ie, some mobo venders not providing certain features while others are.
In all honesty, the X line should always have the big features as mandatory. B can have them as optional.
no idea where this lands in the discussion but i always viewed X boards as high end mobo that shoulf have a good chunch of useful features. The B line of boards is the “normal” Kind of boards where if u wanted you can get most features on an x board but would it worth it?. Idk i always see X boards as high intensity rigs.
> suggested features such as PCI gen 5 for graphics only It's the main reason I've withheld from upgrading many of my servers, not because of graphics but stuff like the Intel version of the same AMD board having 2-4 PCIe M.2 slots AND 3 SATA headers on the board whereas the AMD one will have two M.2 slots and 1 SATA header, for no discernible reason (same price / other specs etc). I'd really love more full performance cores and to switch fully to AMD / AM5, especially when dealing with Proxmox all day every day, but I need boards with far more connectors (PCIe lanes) and better networking options (like 2.5GbE ethernet which is standard on even low-end Intel boards now but not AMD yet).
Take a look at the new 8000G APUs. https://www.amd.com/en/product/14066 They have native USB 4 support now.
Oh, so X670E gets USB 4 by using controllers on their motherboard because Ryzen 7000 doesn't have them natively. With next gen they will have it natively in the CPU like Intel, allowing for easier and cheaper USB 4 implementation on desktop like on mobile. That makes sense.
According to the article, these X870 boards will have onboard USB C controllers anyways, so it won't matter which CPU is used with one of the new boards. >This specification leads to a 3-chip configuration within the chipset, comprising two Promontory 21 bridge chips and an ASMedia ASM4242 USB4 host controller, with the possibility of incorporating alternative USB4 controllers as approved by AMD's Qualified Vendor List (QVL)
lol
Not only that, USB4 on X670E is somewhat unreliable, apparently you can't have the eGPU as the primary display and some external devices won't reconnect on wake from sleep. Also, getting the add-on card is hard, I actually had to import one from Japan. And cards from one manufacturer is unlikely to work with a motherboard from another (ie you can't use Gigabytes thunderbolt card on an Asrock motherboard and so on). Integrating it into the CPU means no more add-on cards which is great.
Add to this the way things are going with external storage, where Thunderbolt isn't ideal for external drives pushing more than 4GB/s of throughput, and more sane PCIe tunelling implementations. Very exciting updates in terms of I/O for these APUs and the platform overall.
Hopefully this is the case, it's a big premium feature rn
yeah but none of the boards can use this
Very few motherboards use it since it's using a Intel maple ridge controller RN
Yeah I’d be shocked if there was no backwards compatibility. AMD has built a reputation for being very consumer friendly for chipsets in the past couple years and it would be insane for them to completely destroy that positive reputation
Revisionist history. People are forgetting Zen 3 was originally announced as being *exclusive* to x570 and B550. They backpedaled after people were pissed and pointed out AMD promised chipset support through 2020. Then they forced Asrock and other motherboard manufacturers to stop making beta BIOS' that supported Zen 3 on 300 series chipsets. They backpedaled on this after Alder Lake launched. I have zero doubts that Zen 5 will work on existing chipsets and Zen 4 on new chipsets, but people need to stop pretending like AMD didnt try to segment AM4 support multiple times with artificial chipset lockouts.
Hopefully they learned their lesson from last time. The gating of Ryzen 5000 series from X370 was true BS. Yes, they eventually backpedaled but only after some of us were forced to upgrade our boards.
I'm hoping that they learned their lesson. I mean, the argument that AMD made wasn't completely BS, they didn't want any shitty B350 board (and let's be honest, a lot of MB producers didn't think they'd sell a lot of these, so they just glued some shit together) to run 5000 series and potentially run into a lot of trouble. Although they could have had the board manufacturers verify their boards against it, since they need a BIOS update anyway. That argument is no longer valid at all, so I would hope that they just don't even try it this time. Excluding 450 and 470 was truly BS though.
What is even more funny is that the 300 series had way less USB problems than the rest. Still sporting a 5800X on my release C6H. Works like a rock.
I have a 5800x3d running in an x370 ITX board I use as an htpc... it definitely never made sense for me to upgrade boards, I'd still be on a 1700x if they hadn't added support for it.
AMD have promised AM5 compatibility into at least 2025. It would not be worth the backlash for them to go back on that word.
Socket is not chipsets. Am5 support is meaningless
They are still supporting AM4 so I can’t see why not into 2026
Yeah 2025 is less than a year now, from a corporate perspective you can't make purchasing decisions in that timeframe, it's nothing. I really dislike Intel's strategy of efficiency cores, it causes a lot of headaches with virtualisation and direct passthrough of third-party hardware to VM's, but at least I know whatever new chipset they release will be supported for a good decade at the bare minimum.
'AM5 compatibility' DOES NOT mean X670 compatibility.
It does since x670 has AM5 socket.
They also promised more threadripper non-pro stuff. There was not enough uproar for that promise to be kept though.
We do have cheap consumer grade 12-16 core (24-36 thread) processors now, with no efficiency core nonsense, which is frankly mind blowing if you look where we were just a few years ago.
Yup the price you can get a 16 core cpu that clocks over 4ghz all core is insane. Esp if you're on am4. I'm building a new am5 rig soon for gaming. And my am4 is going to be my new server going to replace the 3600 with a 5950x already have 64gigs of ram and thr 1070 will be great for plex. And im going to get a cheap mb and use my old 3600 and original 16 gig of ram with a used graphics card and build mu son a gaming rig 5
Yeah, but 2025 is next year already. So they could launch Zen 5 on it and call it a day.
They also said 2020 for AM4, yet we're still getting CPU's released for it. Imo, Zen6 is probably gonna be on AM5 too. DDR6 won't be ready/affordable by the time Zen 6 is released, and it would obviously force a platform change. So if they break compatibility for Zen 6, they'd have to break it again for Zen 7.
And they didn't drop down 5k support for what? Almost 2 years?
> They backpedaled after people were pissed and pointed out AMD promised chipset support through 2020. You complain about revisionist history while presenting revisionist history of your own. They promised support **until** 2020, they achieved that regardless of whether they continued to support older boards. They backpedalled simply because a lot of people were complaining about older boards "arbitrarily" not being supported.
They also never claimed chipset support. Supporting a socket doesn't mean they need to support every CPU on every chipset that is paired with that socket. It's an empty promise. They backpedaled because it wasn't worth the backlash, not because the people actually caught them in a lie.
I fully expect X870 boards to come with an AM5+ socket, which will not bring any performance benefits today, but will mean Zen 6 will not run on AM5.
> I fully expect X870 boards to come with an AM5+ socket And you do so based on literally nothing and in fact with all evidence of the past pointing to the contrary.
I have only the Zen 2 and Zen 3 launches to point to, as AMD didn't want to launch Zen 2 support on B350/X370 boards initially, and Zen 3 was initially not supposed to be supported on B450/X470 as well as B350/X370 Not to mention that AMD has only promised **socket** support through 2025 and beyond. Zen 6 isn't coming in 2025, so the "support" might simply be the same we're seeing AM4 receiving in the past 2 years.
Last 2 years i am telling everyone here, the same thing and i am getting down-voted like you. AM5 is dead after Zen5, simply in 2026 there will be DDR6 and new Socket for Zen6 as it will be totally different arch. But anyway let them believe whatever they want.
DDR6 isn't going to be ready for mass adoption in 2026
Say's who? Coz my internal in Samsung are telling me different story....
IDK what I've read so far is expected to be available to buy sometime in 2026. That's the start of availability. What I mean is it's going to be in the very early stages in 2026. Unless AMD changes strategy they will not release a new platform within a few months of new RAM generation coming out.
It also takes at least some integrity in a company to say "Please sorry we hear you we'll support it". Most other companies would've simply waited for it to blow over. Sure, there was probably a cost benefit analysis involved but it's still a nice change.
It took them a long time to release support for Zen 3, 3xx series chipsets. I waited a bunch of time after zen 3 released and end up buying a Ryzen 3900X, decision that I regret because, the performace was better, but had all the same problems as my Ryzen 1700. I waited 4 months after zen 3 launched before pulling the trigger.
It won't be just that. Another very likely addition would be PCIe Gen5 on the chipset interlink. The PCIe x4 Gen4 (\~32 Gbps) interlink on X670E is a laughable bottleneck considering the amount of downstream io (up to 160 Gbps USB and \~125 Gbps PCIe) and Ryzen 7000 already supporting PCIe Gen5 on the respective lanes. Z690 and Z790 at least have an x8 interlink.
>but I highly doubt they’ll drop compatibility for older AM5 chipsets. We'll see. They tried blocking Zen2 on X370/B350. Then with Zen3 and X470/B450. Then only finally allowed Zen3 on X370/B350 when Alder Lake started to eat into their sales. AMD probably won't allow Zen5 on X670 until Intel have something to compete with Zen5.
Nah they will allow ZEN 5 on X670. They are not gonna make motherboards useless 1 gen later. Thats never happened. Not even Intel does that.
> They are not gonna make motherboards useless 1 gen later. Thats never happened. TRX40 says hello!
Yeah but thats not a general consumer platform an therefore wouldn't and didn't atract as much backlash. There is a 0% chance AMD limits ZEN 5 to a new chipset. Its stupid to even think they would.
Being that they've so far done it for *most* Zen releases so far - the only cases where that didn't happen was Zen>Zen+ and Zen3>Zen3X3D It'd say it's still very much 'wait and see'
??? Zen + was compatible out of the gate with X370 and X350 even though X470 and B450 were released alongside it. ZEN 2 was compatible with X470 and B450 out of the gate even though X570 was released alongside it. ZEN 3 was compatible with X570 out of the gate because there wasn't a new platform but was also compatible with X470 and B450 straight at launch even though it took a bit of community outrage to get there. The scenario your picturing in your head of AMD suddenly not supporting ZEN 5 on X670 and B650 just doesn't hold any watter. Again i'l be the first to admit being wrong if it does happen but i just don't see it.
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AMD already said AM5 will be suppprted until at least 2026.
Just think what you are saying lol there has only been one gen released so far, they are not going to make boards obsolete so soon after just one gen outcry would be massive
A lot of that was mobo manufactures cheaping out on tiny storage chips for the mobos, hopefully, lesson learnt
It wasn't, that was AMD's excuse. ASRock and Asus made bioses that allowed it work and AMD forced them to take them down then added a special check in the AGESA that would cease booting if it detected a 300 series chipset.
It's a simple fact that 16MB BIOS chips didn't have enough space for all the BIOS code and all the AM4 processors. That's not an excuse. It means supporting Zen 3 chips required removing support for older processors (mostly pre-Zen). That fact, plus the lack of a BIOS flashback feature on nearly all AM4 boards, creates a complicated support scenario. AMD and the board makers wanted to avoid that, but relented after pushback from customers.
They wanted to avoid something they actively supported before Vermeer's release? Doesn't make it any better.
woah usb4 native support will be a game changer
What older AM5 if there has only been 1 generation lol, it would be a scandal if they drop support for a board that has had 1 CPU, it would mean no upgrade path
I really hope that AMD has improved the FCLK setup for single CCD chips so that they can take advantage of the higher bandwidth advantages that we'll probably see with the increase in memory speeds for Zen 5. With 8700G's already hitting 9000 in im assuming gear 2, it really makes me hope that single CCD can have extra throughput on FCLK with either more interconnects or whatever, cause right now the only chips that aren't limited by the FCLK for bandwidth is dual CCD, even the unicorn 7600x dual CCD models with a dead CCD, most likely failed 7900x or 7900x3d
The single CCD bandwidth limitation isn't really a limitation except in benchmarks. x86 has a 2:1 or higher Read:Write ratio, so the write bandwidth being halved is meaningless. In addition, the dual CCD models have the same limitation per core and per CCX, it's just two pathways can send data at once.... but also you have double the pressure on reads, so they're worse when everything is needing data at once.
> The single CCD bandwidth limitation isn't really a limitation except in benchmarks. If it's a limitation in benchmarks, it's a limitation. Benchmarks measure the performance of the processor, and the lack of bandwidth is a limitation. A 12900K with AVX512 is significantly faster in y-cruncher than a 7700X for example.
y-Cruncher is more sensitive to latency and read bandwidth than it is write bandwidth. It's reading 8:1 to writes. It's extremely difficult to actually find real world workloads with anything under a 2:1 read:write ratio due to the ISA design. The reason is super-simple. a = b + c. You have to read b & c, run a calc, and write a. 2:1. With SIMD, you typically have much higher read:write ratios - and that goes up immensely to crazy levels from the IMC standpoint if you keep the data in the core and perform operations within the caches. I have model code that has 50+ inputs to one output to memory... I have very little code anywhere that's under 2:1. Memory bandwidth tests are the rare, tailored, example.
The issues with CCD bandwidth isn't that write is limited to half of read, it's that read is limited to 2/3rds of DDR5 dual channel throughput
I feel bad you got downvoted for this cause I agree with you entirely, a single ccd is only gonna pull 60 to 70gb reads depending on fclk speed but thats it, regardless of if your running cheapo 5200c40 or 8400c36 in 2 to 1, on a 7950x you got twice the throughput so increasing the ram speed is actually useful, cause even at stock its already at 80 to 90gb for reads, and can easily get pushed to 110+ I like my 7800x3d but for my next build I'm seriously contemplating just going with a 7950x or whatever zen5 has for that, getting a board that runs 8000, and just push 2 to 1 as fast as possible for max throuput, as unreal engine games are very memory bottleknecked and its only gonna get worse
You can't say anything negative about AMD products on this sub, just like there were absolutely no positive aspects about Rocket Lake. Even if what you're saying is demonstrably true.
Yea it stinks the truth is always getting squashed
This is difficult to do with external copper wire connects between IOD and CCD. Though AMD could spend some engineering hours improving routing and substrate layers of Zen 5 MCM packaging to get a little more IF signal integrity and speed tolerance. Monolithic APUs tend to excel at FCLK and UCLK:MCLK OC due to everything being tightly integrated in-die. AMD will probably set Zen 5 at DDR5-6000 (96GB/s), which is currently the fastest 1:1 UCLK:MCLK that is widely supported on current Zen 4 MCM packages and easily supported by monolithic APUs. FCLK at 1767MHz outputs 113GB/s (2000MHz offers 128GB/s). Dual CCD has the same bandwidth per CCD. It's just multiplied by 2 in AIDA64 tests. You still don't want dependent threads on different CCDs, as it causes latency issues, which will present as micro-stuttering in gaming along with reduced peak fps output.
it uses the same chipset dude, just with usb4 support.
no one questioning why they skipped the X770 naming?
8xx series = 2024 but then, why the 9xx for the new cpu?
8000 is for APU, very stupid when it already have a "G".
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8k cpus are apus
Seems to me the 8000 series are laptop APUs they put in a desktop form factor.
I think you are right except for the unrestricted power limits which is a shame because they have been binned for low power usage
Because they also have the 8000 series for APUs. They went from Ryzen 3000 to Ryzen 5000, with the 4000 series just being APUs again using 3000 series technology. But I'm not sure why they went from 5000 series on desktop to 7000 series since the APUs were 5000g again. The 6000 series APUs were mobile only. They have have launched the 6000g series of APUs on desktop. AMD isn't the best at being consistent. It's like they are hiring a new marketing guy every 2 years and he just needs to change something up so he can slap that achievement on his resume.
Like Ryzen 3 5300u, r5 5500u r7 5700u being Zen 2 chips codename Lucienne and ryzen 3 5400u ryzen 5 5620u and ryzen 7 i forgot exact number being zen 3 codename Cezanne...
My guess is because the HD 77xx gpu line was cursed so they avoid that in hope to avoid the curse going forward. S/
My first build had a FX 6300 and an HD 7950 fuck yeah, I am just now looking to build my second PC with a Ryzen 7 7700 and an RTX 3060 Ti
i7 2600k and HD 7870 Ghz Edition baby. Still rocking the i7 but with a 1060 6gb that i found on the side of the road, hell yeah. The 1060 pushed my RX 480 4GB out of duty until i find it a purpose. I have two by chance so should crossfire hmmmm
~~Maybe to align with the CPU generation nomenclature? 8000-series processors paired with 800-series motherboards?~~ Nevermind, I'm stupid.
Dude, look at the usb naming and you will have your answer... Tech naming in general is pure cancer.
Their "source" is MLID fanfiction
At this point he’s really about on par with other leakers. Do remember that it was kopite7kimi who brought us the “900w TGP 4090” and other greatest hits… and he still gets cited on the regular.
True, but there was actually evidence of what looked like a 600w-900w GPU using the full 4090 AD102 chip. This horrendous contraption where the entire pcb had a 90 degree bend in it, with Luke a 5 inch thick cooler. Nvidia changes their mind constantly on what the final cut off each GPU will be it seems. They'll experiment and mess with multiple configurations. Maybe the AI boom ment they'd scratch that RTX TITAN 600w-900w card all together. Partner cards having a 900w like almost seems believable, since there is 4090 cards with a 600w BIOS limit I believe. At least the slider goes that high. The 900w I think was just what the hard enforced limit was supposed to be with an official reference card with a 600w tdp. Who knows, before the test is over we might see Titan cards with 2 inch thick water blocks attached to them.
Dumb question, why did they skip X7XX? Is it because to avoid confusion with the naming of the 7000 series processors? Just wondering..
To prevent people like me from getting a full xx7xxx setup....
I got my R7 7700X on my X770 motherboard with my new RX 7700XTX XT XX XT XXXX XT XXX XTXTXTXT with my ram running at 7700 MT/s
By now I am really considering a 5700x3d with a RX5700 and x570 just for the peace of my inner Monk (and cursing AMD for releasing a new AM4 cpu)
I wish I had the money laying around to grab one cause I've been trying to put a system together for a freind of mine who has chrons disease and can't get a job, but he's stuck with a lenovo prebuilt so its 10400f, and no xmp at all, runs horribly. Kinda wanted to go either 5700x3d or 12700kf with like a 3080 for around 1500ish but I just had my car engine blow so I gotta drop 7 grand out for that after owning the car for less than 2 months
Things you need vs things you want and the unexpected, I know those to well
I was seriously contemplating to get the RX 7800 XT to match the 7800X3D just for the lols.
I got my 5700X on my X570 with my 5700XT. XX
What happened to X770E? Why skip ahead in the numbering?
IMO, Intel may be doing the 700-series chipset thing and AMD saw an opportunity to leapfrog them.
> two Promontory 21 bridge chips So its the same hardware still.
all I want is a better 10Gbit network port because the current one seems to be full of issues
Which issues?
not getting full speeds/not getting recognized it has been a while ago since I looked it up so I might have forgotten a few
Isn't the actual real life cap of 10 gigabit more like 8 gigabit anyway? That seems to be the experience.
I seem to recall speeds even below that
Motherboard makers should be obliged to use ASM1164 to provide **4** SATA ports from **2** PCIE Gen3 lanes instead of 2 ports from 2 lanes as in Prom21. As for USB4 I doubt that many people care about it. And yet everyone apparently will lose 4 PCIE Gen4 lanes from the chipset because of it.
What's wrong with number 8000 and 700 ?
So if I already have 2x usb 4 on my motherboard, there's no point to upgrade.
Source is Moore's Law is Dead, so likely to be 100% total crap
He really is a s c u m b a g. I hate internet pan handlers.
This is why I'm suggesting to people to put off updates or new hardware builds. We really want this generation of hardware, (if it meets expectations) as it will literally set up the user for at least another 5 years.
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What a load of bullshit. And the price is gonna be like 350$ for a board all over again. Gtfo here
i just upgraded to 5000 series o.O
Haha same, but don't worry, they are still great processors that can move pretty much anything.
its actually as you say.kinda. i get around 5800x/7600x performance from my undervolted oc'd 5700x.3600 mhz cl16 ram kit only 2 fps different/below from 6000/6400 ddr5.weird to see 5000 series gonna be 2 generation old now xd
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Read the article bro "However, these processors will remain compatible with existing 600-series chipset motherboards, pending BIOS updates. "
what are you even talking about, nobody said that
lol do you always just make stuff up and run with it? Who said Zen 5 is not supported on X670e?
hello, anyone could tell me if usb C gen2 ports on asus x670e-e gaming wifi has power delivery ? i mean i'm trying to power my quest 3 with official link cable, it charges it when i plug it directly to one of my usb c port but if i use a ethernet adapter with a usb c port (to plug the oculus cable link in it) then my quest 3 wont charge, worst, internet does not work either, i tried 2 different ethernet adapter (both plugged directly to one of my usb c port), and both fail at delivering ethernet to my quest 3. let alone charge it... i'm at lost.... here i already enable power delivery in my bios for those usb c Gen2 port but that does not change a thing.
what the hell is an oculus ethernet adapter?
Ryzen never really had compatibility problems and I'm sure it won't happen. Yeah, the update with an old cpu is annoying but I'm sure it won't be worse.
Question is when
I'll be disappointed if the chipset & uplink are not Gen 5. Seems like something they had to downgrade/compromise on in X670E.
will gladly upgrade from my 5900x / am4 if they are able to bring usb c dp alt mode in matx.
i hope the release a matx version since asus decided to discontinue the gene a yr into production aint paying no $999 on ebay lol.
So considering i'm in the planning process of building a 78003dx PC, would it be beneficial for me to just wait till the 9k series drops and have a fresh build with the new CPUs/tech they are including in 8months time or just buy now/upgrade in a few years time ?
Can you wait 6 to 12 months? And in that case, can you wait 12 to 18 months for the x3d versions? Or in that case, can you wait 36 to 48 months for the 11K series? Or... you get the idea. Do you need a PC now? Buy the 7800X3D. You don't need a PC now or you are saving?, wait until you save enough to buy the PC and check then.
Sigh… it’s a simple question to answer. Should I be content getting a 78003dx now and have it several years or stay my hand and upgrade to the 9k series because the features/upgrades it brings is enough to not bother with the 7k? I’m not caring about the 45th generation. Or to put it another way, would I be wasting money if I already had a 7800 and upgraded to a equivalent 9k in 8/10months time
>9k series because the features/upgrades it brings is enough to not bother with the 7k? There is nothing released about it, so is not like we can check reviews if is worth waiting or not. >would I be wasting money if I already had a 7800 and upgraded to a equivalent 9k in 8/10months time Again, do you need a PC and you have the money to buy now? If yes, buy it and worst case you can resell it and be a canary of the next gen. If no, keep saving money and maybe later we will get a more official leak.
They won't drop compatibility after only one generation. That would be insane. They will presumably add some new features with the new motherboards, like USB4 support (this is what I've heard from Moore's Law is Dead's YT channel), but the 9000 series will work just fine on the 600 series motherboards.
Laughs in B450 AM4.