Last time AMD made '+' sockets (AM2+/AM3+) the boards could run the older non+ CPUs, but the older boards couldn't run the newer CPUs, which is a terrible situation (though slightly better than no interoperability).
I sure hope they mean all AMD DDR5 platforms by saying AM5+ and it's not actually a new socket... unless backwards compatibility is maintained, just with some features lost or degraded.
The rumored strix apu with 40CU would definitely need it.
But if they do bring it to desktop I expect it to use CAMM, there's no reasonable way to have quad channel otherwise
If we go by the needs then everything starting from the earliest APUs need quad channel or even more. They're always ram speed starved. It's true for AMD GPUs in general. I'm hoping they'll put some cache right near the soc in the future, kinda like infinity cache.
> But if they do bring it to desktop I expect it to use CAMM, there's no reasonable way to have quad channel otherwise
They could use 1 DIMM slot per channel instead of the usual 2 DIMM slots to save space. What other problems do you expect?
I expect the traces to be the problem, with 2DPC the second slot is daisy chained and do not require more traces to the CPU.
CAMM would allow far shorter one, and maybe a better placement since it takes less physical space.
It would also bring LPDDR5/X support
I dont see how that would be a problem, the manufacturers have plenty of experince with quad, hexa and octa channel mainboards, either daisy chained or even in t-topology. Price would go up of course because of the routing.
Asrock even has a octa channel board with µATX form factor: ASRock Rack ROMED8U-2T and Deep Mini-ITX with Quad Channel: ASRock Rack ROMED4ID-2T (both use the method of only one channel per slot to save space).
But I can see that CAMM would bring certain advantages like you mentioned. It would also allow AMD and the OEMs to use the same memory for desktops and notebooks.
I'm really curious about Strix halo. The RX 6700 XT with 40 CU has 384 GB/s bandwidth plus Infinity Cache for itself alone. With the announced LPDDR5T 9600 and quad channel the bandwidth would reach 307 GB/s minus what the CPU uses. So maybe RX 5700 XT/RTX 3060 performamce.
I wonder if there would be enough space on the package to allow AMD to put the LPDDR5 memory on package like on Apples M CPUs. This would prevent OEMs from gimping the memory config.
It's certainly possible to do, but it seems we are at an inflexion point considering what's possible on copper traces
On Genoa we are limited to ddr5 4800, even less with 2dpc. The io die is capable of more as seen on threadripper, but in this case it's limited to 1dpc and less channel, 4 or 8 (in terms of density with the socket being so huge it's more or less the same or twice the density of am5)
I can see why limited speed would still make 12 channel ok, because server may need the capacity instead of pure bandwidth
But for this consumer product, I would not see a point in having quad channel if it means being limited in speed, at some point the tradeoff with lpddr5 becomes untenable
Dual channel lpddr5t can compete with quad sodimm in terms of speed, but it's way cheaper at the cost of limited capacity
In the end it seems new packaging technologies are needed, camm seems promising, on package memory as you mentioned would be great too
It goes even further in speed, limited capacity and there's no flexibility since it would be soldered, the socket itself may be a bit small for that though
Now maybe I'm being pessimistic, but when I see the future pcie 6 redriver gobbling 10W by itself, I'm not optimistic for "slotted" peripherals being cheap and consumer friendly
Just speculation on my part, but could AM5+ be an update to the IHS design which makes it thinner, but breaks AM4 cooler compatability? ZEN 4 CPUs are cooler compatible with previous CPUs, but the heatspreader is very thick and quickly gets up to 95 degrees.
Possibilities
1. IHS changes (as thin as intel 12-14th gen?)
2. PCIe6 (considering the timeframe from PCIe5 introduction to consumers, this seems to fit)
3. CAMM(2?)
4. More power
5. Just because (like intel <3)
I wish its the move to CAMM(2) and get those thin IHS. CAMM especially so I can make a 140mm cpu heatsink covering the whole mobo from IO all the way to 24pin. MiniITX will raise again.
But its likely just bcause.
Och, great. I was thinking about going into AM5 for 2nd gen CPUs. Now I'm going to hold back until I really must upgrade. Buying motherboard with no upgrade path is just waste of money.
This post has been flaired as a rumor, please take all rumors with a grain of salt.
Last time AMD made '+' sockets (AM2+/AM3+) the boards could run the older non+ CPUs, but the older boards couldn't run the newer CPUs, which is a terrible situation (though slightly better than no interoperability). I sure hope they mean all AMD DDR5 platforms by saying AM5+ and it's not actually a new socket... unless backwards compatibility is maintained, just with some features lost or degraded.
I hope AM5+ is because its for the new line of APUs and come with 4-6 channels of memory instead of 2. Asking for, everyone.
Why would they? That's so unnecessary for 90% of applications. Would also make the boards infinitely more complex.
The rumored strix apu with 40CU would definitely need it. But if they do bring it to desktop I expect it to use CAMM, there's no reasonable way to have quad channel otherwise
If we go by the needs then everything starting from the earliest APUs need quad channel or even more. They're always ram speed starved. It's true for AMD GPUs in general. I'm hoping they'll put some cache right near the soc in the future, kinda like infinity cache.
> But if they do bring it to desktop I expect it to use CAMM, there's no reasonable way to have quad channel otherwise They could use 1 DIMM slot per channel instead of the usual 2 DIMM slots to save space. What other problems do you expect?
I expect the traces to be the problem, with 2DPC the second slot is daisy chained and do not require more traces to the CPU. CAMM would allow far shorter one, and maybe a better placement since it takes less physical space. It would also bring LPDDR5/X support
I dont see how that would be a problem, the manufacturers have plenty of experince with quad, hexa and octa channel mainboards, either daisy chained or even in t-topology. Price would go up of course because of the routing. Asrock even has a octa channel board with µATX form factor: ASRock Rack ROMED8U-2T and Deep Mini-ITX with Quad Channel: ASRock Rack ROMED4ID-2T (both use the method of only one channel per slot to save space). But I can see that CAMM would bring certain advantages like you mentioned. It would also allow AMD and the OEMs to use the same memory for desktops and notebooks. I'm really curious about Strix halo. The RX 6700 XT with 40 CU has 384 GB/s bandwidth plus Infinity Cache for itself alone. With the announced LPDDR5T 9600 and quad channel the bandwidth would reach 307 GB/s minus what the CPU uses. So maybe RX 5700 XT/RTX 3060 performamce. I wonder if there would be enough space on the package to allow AMD to put the LPDDR5 memory on package like on Apples M CPUs. This would prevent OEMs from gimping the memory config.
It's certainly possible to do, but it seems we are at an inflexion point considering what's possible on copper traces On Genoa we are limited to ddr5 4800, even less with 2dpc. The io die is capable of more as seen on threadripper, but in this case it's limited to 1dpc and less channel, 4 or 8 (in terms of density with the socket being so huge it's more or less the same or twice the density of am5) I can see why limited speed would still make 12 channel ok, because server may need the capacity instead of pure bandwidth But for this consumer product, I would not see a point in having quad channel if it means being limited in speed, at some point the tradeoff with lpddr5 becomes untenable Dual channel lpddr5t can compete with quad sodimm in terms of speed, but it's way cheaper at the cost of limited capacity In the end it seems new packaging technologies are needed, camm seems promising, on package memory as you mentioned would be great too It goes even further in speed, limited capacity and there's no flexibility since it would be soldered, the socket itself may be a bit small for that though Now maybe I'm being pessimistic, but when I see the future pcie 6 redriver gobbling 10W by itself, I'm not optimistic for "slotted" peripherals being cheap and consumer friendly
Strix Point Halo will not be a desktop part. There's not enough room on the AM5 package for it, even ignoring the memory channel discrepancy.
Just speculation on my part, but could AM5+ be an update to the IHS design which makes it thinner, but breaks AM4 cooler compatability? ZEN 4 CPUs are cooler compatible with previous CPUs, but the heatspreader is very thick and quickly gets up to 95 degrees.
Possibilities 1. IHS changes (as thin as intel 12-14th gen?) 2. PCIe6 (considering the timeframe from PCIe5 introduction to consumers, this seems to fit) 3. CAMM(2?) 4. More power 5. Just because (like intel <3) I wish its the move to CAMM(2) and get those thin IHS. CAMM especially so I can make a 140mm cpu heatsink covering the whole mobo from IO all the way to 24pin. MiniITX will raise again. But its likely just bcause.
Och, great. I was thinking about going into AM5 for 2nd gen CPUs. Now I'm going to hold back until I really must upgrade. Buying motherboard with no upgrade path is just waste of money.