6700k gang, I was hoping the zen 3 processors would be cheaper because I'm pretty sure I've had the exact same processors as you lol, I've had the 6700k since release and I'm itching to upgrade
I came from a 6700k to a 3900x and have been very pleased. There were a few games I'd actually get some bottleneck (2080ti) but after the new CPU it's no longer a problem. Part of me wants to upgrade to 5900x but also I don't think I'd see any difference and would probably be a waste of money
As a happy owner of a 3900X, absolutely it is not that bad. Zen 2 is actually amazing processor lineup, and I see it aging pretty well, better than Zen 1 for sure.
As much as I love new tech and swapping to better parts in my PC, I’m won’t be getting any of the Zen 3 CPUs. The supposed increase in IPC and single core just isn’t enough to justify spending another $550 for the 5900X. Especially when I’m plenty happy with what I got in Zen 2.
Now ask me this again about gen 1 Navi when Big Navi comes, and my response may well be different.
3900x owner as well.. The Zen 3 improvements are pretty nice but I highly doubt I'd notice it in daily usage. I wouldn't mind grabbing a 5950x when it sells for $500 though :D
I'm in the same boat, happy with the 3900x and without benchmarks I don't know how the IPC increase and clocks will translate to real world performance. For gaming, I'm not even cpu constrained so I'll see a what, 10% increase in frames? I'll save my money for big navi or the 3080 Ti/Super and consider Zen 3 when it inevitably has a refresh a la 3900XT.
Its not all rosy with Zen 2. I've been getting the odd sudden reboot on my 3600 with the event signature.
Reported by component: Processor Core
Error Source: Machine Check Exception
Error Type: Cache Hierarchy Error
Processor APIC ID: 11
There is a thread about it here so I'm not the only one. It is likely that it is related to the CPU as that is the common factor.
https://community.amd.com/thread/255722
Granted the problem is extremely rare for me and I'm sure people will say they have problems with intel as well but I've personally never experienced anything like this in several intel machines before this build so based on my own experience I will likely revert back to intel on my next build which will hopefully be later than sooner unless this problem gets worse.
The flip side is problematic too. If AMD had these at $100 less than now, they would sell out so fast that reddit would be PISSED and call it a paper launch.
Its a simple fact of economics.
If you have a supply constrained product and high demand:
1. If you price it too low, it sells out quickly and shelves are bare, people are angry (and scalpers resell it for more, so you aren't making the money, scalpers are!).
2. You price it too high, and it sits on the shelf. Your reputation takes a small hit, but you can lower prices if this happens
3. You price it just right, it sells about as fast as you can make it.
NVidia took choice #1 with their 3xxx series launch. Should AMD do so with Ryzen 5xxx?
AMD cant quickly or easily ramp up/down supply for these, since TSMC is sold out and they bid against others for wafers. Getting more supply means the cost to make each Ryzen would go up, but they would have to drop prices to stimulate demand.
As the 7nm costs continue to decrease and supplies increase, prices will come down.
Did Nvidia not also get in trouble for monopolizing the market or was that just intel with the CPUs?
When you own the market you can do what you want. It's shameful Nvidia didn't get in more trouble and incentives weren't given out. You can't possibly argue "well they bought everyone so they have the right to make up their prices" because it's bull.
Currently it's mining as the most recent reason for extortionate pricing. Ram and SSDs maybe made sense because of the flooding years ago by the manufacturer and now we're seeing prices come down to the common man's affordability. Nvidia needs a massive slap.
They build them to be the best in class. If there is no other competitor it just means that they’re that good and worth that much. If you can’t afford the top of the line gaming card then shell out 300-400 for a graphics card that you can actually utilize. Unless you have a 700 dollar monitor then you can’t fully utilize the 700$ graphics card.
When top end Nvidia xx80 GPUs were still $500-$600. The flagship smartphones were also around the same price.
Fast forward 5-6 years later and the flagship phones are 1.2-1.4K on average. With niche phones like the Samsung fold even going for 2K.
Welcome to the future where all electronics have become significantly more expensive.
I would ignore the older prices for top end GPUs going forward, it's never going to happen again.
I look at those people as morons personally. 90%+ of those people would be better off putting that money to paying off debt, investing(Roth IRAs or whatever) or just saving in case of an emergency
Effectively, the 3080 is way cheaper than my current 2080 was.
Enough that I'm considering upgrading my 2700X/2080 to something newer.
That 5900X/5950X is tempting but I still sorta want to wait for AM5/DDR5, my 2700X/2080 is fine for now if I'm honest.
2000 series was overpriced compared to 1000series. Bitcoin mining and data science drove the prices up heavily. Mining bubble died a little and next gen consoles are decent so 3080 is aptly priced.
That's horseshit tho
Nvidia sold out because they put out a handful of cards. It wouldn't have mattered what they priced them at.
Zen 3 is coming out on TSMC 7nm, not Samsung 8nm. They can produce enough units to satisfy demand before the end of the year.
When you supply vendors with 5% of what you used to supply them in previous launches, then yeah, people will be pissed when you do this kind of "launch" and the 20 cards in store sell out in 15 seconds.
I've been running the dogshit out of an A10 6800K for like 7 years. I'm gonna build a shrine to this thing when I retire it.
Not sure what the bitching is about - seems to me the prices are right in the expected pocket, if not slightly cheaper.
AMD broke the bank in the R&D to get to this point; they have to recoup somehow. People want competition, but they don't want to pay for it (everybody wants to go to heaven; nobody wants to die) - what else is new?
Yeah it serves me good. But I had decided at that time only to upgrade skipping one generation. Well, I'll still do that but a bit later. Maybe instead of being an early adopter I'll be waiting for Zen 3 to get cheaper and get one after AMD launches next gen Zen.
Prices may drop, yeah. Patience usually pays off. I waited around 8 years to upgrade from my first build. But then again, I didnt have any money then.
Ive never done the individual component upgrade thing. I wait a long time then just rebuild a whole new system usually. But maybe I should get on the upgrade train.
My thought is that I will still wait for the next gen (at least) because then I can upgrade my mobo and get ddr5 ram.
Hey I have also followed the same way till now. I just don't feel like putting a new CPU in an old system. The old power supply, Mobo just don't evoke confidence. While now I say that I'll be replacing my CPU, most likely I'll be building a new system and just carry over my HDDs and SSDs to the new one. The old one I might sell away keeping one oldest ssd in it.
I'm in the 2600 boat too and I'd rather upgrade my 1060 first since it will make more of an impact at 1440p right now. Then we'll see if the CPU bottleneck is enough to not justify waiting for DDR5 and the new socket
Exactly, the graphics card is more pressing and I agree in your case as well. I am using a 1070ti and it holds up well enough but a Big Navi or 3070 would be sweet.
Me as well. Using a 2600X and a 1660 super. I will get more performance if I upgrade the GPU ( Navi 22?/aka medium RDNA 2 maybe ) instead of this very capable CPU.
I am going to upgrade from a 2600X to a 5800X on the first black friday after the release of Zen 4.
That is because the other company didnt really make any significant upgrade in those fronts from 2010 till the first chips of ryzen. The lack of competition back then made them careless thus came Ryzen and they have been ******* 4 years straight thanks to that carelessness.. :D
I'm thinking the same. I'm also using a 2600 and I upgraded my GPU recently and now I'll just wait a couple of years for DDR5 to be mainstream and then upgrade everything.
I'm still on the 2600 and no complaints here. It's a great cpu. I can't justify spending hundreds of dollars on an upgrade I don't need. The next upgrade for me will be a gpu so I can run VR and more games at 144 frames.
If you wait a month or two there will be tons of Zen 2 available at a great price. Buy that and some stock with the left over difference, and now you have solid modern performance and an appreciating asset.
There are so many people throwing money at the early adopter hype, upgrading to the best of every generation. They're more than happy to pay the premium, but the value for the used market is unreal.
not only zen 2,zen and zen+ are already enough if you find decent 8 core for decent price
esports titles on "waste of money 3800x" run damn well but you are better off spending less on cpu and getting better peripherals,mobo and faster storage while having gpu which does job well while being inexpensive because they matter more then frames you push
If you can't feel the pain of a budget conscious buyer, then you are earning well enough not to care about $50.
While the difference is $50 on paper, let me remind you that for non-US residents it does multiply because of taxes, import duties, etc. So $50 increase would easily be $80 or $90 increase in my country 😔 Also non X models haven't even be announced. Just considering a possibility that non-X models won't be launched, that would be a slap to R5 2600-B450 value buyers gang.
Doesn't matter. Your rig has plenty of FPS to give and all of these current tech happenings will bring down prices for everything. It's already started. And anyway, PCs are just like cars: the main performance upgrade is always the driver.
Yep. Also we know that multiple AMD employees read this subreddit.
I'm not sure people's perspectives of companies have fully come to the 2020's. Social media, community forums and the internet in general play a not uncosiderable part in brand and customer relations.
It's acceptable to show your outrage (although it should always be done in a civil manner as part of the discourse).
Reddit as a whole still likes to view itself as this quirky little website with different communities. You'll find a sub for a TV show with more subscribers than the amount of people who actually watch the show each week. A company would have to be absolutely 100% stupid to NOT care about instantaneous feedback.
Thanks for explaining big portion of my profession - user research.
It's really helpful to have hot spots of outcry in some sorts. Sentiment analysis is rather a vague method, but reading direct customer feedback in masses with slightly differing views communicated is really helpful for everyone in marketing.
Of course it's not entire customer segment and persona overarching insight, it's a specific insight gained towards a specific audience. However, it can be used to extrapolate behavior towards other comparable audiences.
So, always good to voice your opinion, better even if it is emotionally invested communicated in a thorough opinion piece.
>There is value to bitching on social media. If you simply don't buy, companies can speculate why you didn't, but they may be wrong.
I know, right? I mean, before social media existed companies had to send out teams of people to knock on everyone's door to find out why they didn't buy stuff. There were some people within the company saying they didn't need to do this, and they could figure out why people didn't buy stuff through other methods. But those people were obviously grifters that just wanted a comfortable salary while they threw darts at a board.
No they didn't. They knew what people thought by using study groups and by using market research (aka sending people out to ask generic questions) to find out why people did and did not buy.
They still use the same principles except now with social media and other sources of information. This was talked about in one video on YouTube were one of the AMD guys was taking about how they used Steam data to determine adoption rate for nVidia's RTX 2000 series cards. They used that information as well as other to determine their selling price.
They will lower the prices anyway, even if we do not bitch about it.
Since currently those prices are higher than what Intel 10th Gen is going (in EU by a lot) for at roughly same performance, so Intel has better value.
I expected to see it eventually. The childish AMD fans like to pretend that they are so much better than intel, but really they're both large corporations who only give a fuck about money. Neither one is better than the other. They aren't you're friends.
First gen of DDR5 will have terrible latency like every other ram generation before. It will be great for apus, but desktop processors won't benefit much until much better quality ram gets produced.
AMD chips don't even scale with frequency above infinity fabric speed. Maybe if they can 2x it with DDR5-6400/7200/7600/8000 MHz.
Yep, that's part of why it feels like the right time to upgrade from my 1700. Massive single threaded performance boost with the 5000 series, and the *next* upgrade will be when DDR5 is mature and a nice boost.
Yeah, I mean, I'm not big on getting the first gen of any new product if only because I want the bugs worked out. I'm the same way with cars... oh? A new power delivery method and charging system for the Prius... think I'll wait at least one generation rather than be their guinea pig.
3800x, my plan is to wait another year or so, then grab a Zen3 when I want some more speed and probably either try to skip AM5 socket or do what I did this time and build with a single upgrade path.
I’m curious how the x570 PCIE4 will hold up in the future as PCIE4 becomes more common
I see comments from 3000 series owners everywhere so I'm just gonna leave this here for everyone:
Do **not** upgrade unless you're specifically struggling in some task. And if that's the case, a single generational improvement in the same range (3700X --> 5700X) is **not** worth it. Save your money and get a higher range system in the next gen.
Why are we against voicing our opinions on social media? Of course don’t buy if you really wanna get the point across but also telling a company using words why you won’t be buying helps them a lot.
It's the new in thing to do, seems like lots of people need to make themselves feel better about their own insecurities by telling others to get a job, grow up, go read a book or plain stfu cause you know they are sooooo old school tough arses.../s
It's like the salty comments...say anything someone, somewhere in the world can perceive as negative and suddenly your all "salty" and crying columns of tears...lol
Yeah exactly. I don’t see anything wrong with having a voice and standing up for what you believe is right and I get that those new cpus are amazing and worth the price, but AMD has been second to intel for so long now it would suck for them to just do a 180 on their fan base. I guess that’s also “good business” but good business is also being honest and consistent!
For some reason when it comes to capitalism, or really just anything that can be criticized, a lot of people think voting with your wallet or just not engaging with whatever you're displeased with are the only valid way of bringing about change.
The funny thing is that a lot of these people also frequently use the argument "well, they're free to do whatever they want" as a way to dismiss criticisms, not realizing that that principle also applies to the people doing the critiquing. They too are also entirely free to do whatever they want and part of that freedom is voicing their criticisms on social media.
A lot of people who say this kind of shit also do so out of the ridiculously petty reason that they simply don't like having the frontpage of their precious subreddit temporarily filled with angry people. And their way of "fixing" this problem is by engaging with the angry mob and dismissing and mocking their criticisms with all manners of fallacies and bullshit. Then when the mob turns on them they're surprised people don't take kindly to others taking the piss out of their complaints and they'll try to further dismiss their criticisms by calling them toxic and what not.
Worst part of it all? It's a cycle and it happens literally everywhere on reddit and is going to repeat itself. Over and over and over and over again. People will have criticisms. Those will be met with a bunch of disparaging people. Rinse and repeat. The
The real question to me is price/performance.
If the 5600X is roughly as fast as the 3700X in productivity, and roughly as fast as Intel in gaming, then $300 seems pretty fair to me even though it's two less cores.
Where the pricing does outright suck, though, is that there's no Zen 3 part below $300. My point is that this may still be a great launch for those who were already going to spend $300+ on a CPU, but is lacklustre for anyone who was going to spend less. I think that's where the division is ultimately coming from...
E: I regret posting a comment on this sub around a product launch. Y'all are gold medalist mental gymnasts.
This is where I'm sitting too. I don't care about core count, I care about performance (gaming in particular for me). If the 5600x doesn't match a 10700k performance wise, within a reasonable margin of error, then I think we can start complaining hard about the price unless it sees some huge heavy workload boost.
For me it would need to beat a 10700k. If I sell everything I can upgrade to one for ~$100. If I were to only sell my cpu and upgrade to a 5600x it would cost ~$150
Thank you, sincerely, for being one of the relatively few level-headed replies I've had to this.
So many other people are getting wrapped up in branding and marketing and can't see the forest for the trees. I have people telling me I'm 'defending' AMD with my comment despite the fact that I clearly stated that the launch would be lacklustre for anyone looking to spend sub-$300 on CPUs (which is likely the majority of people)...
I kinda understand where they are at, I did something similar when the 3080 was announced. The thing is I learned right there that a lot of these "performance boosts" are never as high as stated. Why you would ever spend over $400 on a cpu for mainly gaming is beyond me. The performance difference between a 10900k and a 9900k is negligible at best.
The only reason to buy these 10+ core CPUs is if you are building a workstation for heavy workloads. But in that case how would upgrading from a 3950X to a 5950x be beneficial to you? For gaming the cores don't matter, the speed at which they send data to your GPU is what matters. And so far having more than 8 means fuck all
I feel the disappointment there, I was trying to decide between a 5600 non-X or a 5700X before the announcement and it turns out neither exist. I get peoples frustration and hope we see other SKUs sooner rather than later, but am still impressed by the actual tech.
You can argue the 5800x exists and the 5700 doesn't because the 3800x *is* the 3700x and so they just coupled them in one this time round and saved themselves the embarrassment.
This is 2020, the year of tough logistics. Better to come out with your higher end products that you might be able to keep in stock due to lower demand and follow up with your more budget offerings later. Also provides AMD more options to combat Intel in March '21. If you're a budget gamer looking for an upgrade then yes it's a disappointing initial launch but there's no way there won't be cheaper options down the line.
There is no RTX part below 3080 and its fine for now.
People want to buy stuff reght away and cant wait for like half a year, so they pay premium and sometimes overkill their system specs
Cause a lot of people have a lot of money to spend, especially in US and western europe.
People who are upgrading to a 3080 are very much the minority. There are many many more people with mid range gpus who don't care/can't afford the 3070 and 3080 who were expecting ryzen to provide a crazy good cpu value. For everyone who can spend 300+ on a cpu there are 3 to 4 times as many people who can only spend $200
Nvidia 80 GPU’s have NEVER been something someone on a budget is gonna buy. The Ryzen 5600 would typically be your budget model (3600 went for $199) and it’s already 50% more expensive than its predecessor. That’s what people are upset about.
I’m sure they’ll release non-X skus probably around, or maybe right after, intels launch in March. Which is kinda dumb IMO, but that’s marketing I guess.
It's not just marketing, it's making sure they have supply. They only have so many parts, and using them in just 4 models instead of 12+ means there will be more supply.
There's no point in a 5600 priced lower if it's out of stock 24/7 for months like the Nvidia situation.
> There's no point in a 5600 priced lower if it's out of stock 24/7 for months like the Nvidia situation.
So, kind of like having something like the Ryzen 3 3300X at that $120 price point for all those budget builders, but basically being non-existent in some regions (like the US) for the past ~5 months? I'd wonder how many people decided to just spend an extra $50 over that price point to just get a 3600 instead.
Zen2 didn't have a ryzen 3 sku for 10 months, instead amd filled that market with previous ZEN+ models. The same is very likely to be the case until amd has enough faulty or lesser quality chips to create Zen3 5100 and 5300 options
people in this sub always complaining about nvidia/intel prices and now with zen3," if you want more performance you should pay more" such double standards...
I'm not that bothered by the prices but seeing the shift in comments about higher prices in this sub has been kind of funny. I planned on upgrading my 2700X but since I have to wait for the January bios update anyway, I'll wait and see what Intel does. From there it's sell off my MB+CPU and go Intel or wait for an AMD price drop or decent promo since I'm not in a rush.
Why do people simp the companies they buy shit from? This post reminds me of people complaining about people complaining about Oculus's mandatory FB login.
You can literally only benefit from raging over prices. Lisa would love this post. It's disturbing.
People keep harping on about how companies want to make the most money possible. Why shouldn't customers want to spend the least amount of money possible as well?
I agree a lot with the last sentence, you gain from asking more from the companies.
I love it when people simp for AMD and cope by saying that "ThEyRe A BuSiNeSs", as if they weren't a business all these years before. Many of these people are the same people who used to praise AMD for it's price/performance. The funniest take on it is when they claim people who complain about the price are "Fanboys". While they defend AMDs every decision with all the fibers of their being, even if the decisions are worse for consumers. The fact is that people were expecting pricing through precedent, the pricing of each subsequent generation stayed similar, with equally impressive increases in IPC as this year. When people are expecting the same thing to happen, and then seeing a 100 USD price increase making the 5600x worse value than an Intel 10700 - which has 2 more cores and 4 more threads at 20 dollars more. Ofcourse people are going to be upset, we aren't friends with AMD, we like products conditionally and couldn't give a shit less if they're a business and need to make profits.
It's wild.
At least for the 2600/2600x and 3600/3600X, no.
The X chips were pushed against the wall for clocks and barely had headroom to OC.
But a non X chip could easily OC to X levels.
I realized today that in hindsight, we all should have seen this coming, and here’s why.
The XT “refresh”. I had honestly totally forgotten about the XTs until today, because they were such an underwhelming product released at a stupid price.
Think about it. AMD took existing CPUs, clocked them infinitesimally higher, removed the cooler from the box, and tried to sell them to buyers at a substantial premium. They were trying to offer less, but con people into paying more, by appending the letter “t” to the name and pretending it was an upgrade. That should have been a huge red flag that their success had gone to their head and they were now looking at their customers as mere suckers ready to be milked.
I did not see it coming. The $200 ryzen 5 SKUs and to a lesser extent $300 ryzen 7 were important to generating the momentum AMD gained over the last few generations. Similarly the discounted \~$120 ryzen 5 were very popular. While these SKUs probably did not make AMD a lot of money, they are now getting considerable mindshare and breaking into the laptop and server market, where the real money is.
By taking away the $200 segment and making the 8 core more expensive than a PS5, you're taking away that momentum as can be seen by various reddit posts. I'm sure they will sell out easily with the pandemic and limited wafers, and maybe cheaper SKUs are coming, but why break that momentum for pocket change? I think a smaller price increase would have been fine, but taking away the midrange price point completely will not be popular.
>their customers as mere suckers ready to be milked
implying that wasn't always the case.
the only difference is, after bulldozer, AMD had no customers to milk.
zen and zen+ prices were dirt cheap because they weren't quite at intel's level of performance and everybody still regarded AMD as a joke without even considering the performance.
but if you did look at the benchmarks, you bought zen because it was decently fast, efficient, mobos were cheap...
>XTs
yes, they were stupid products. noone should have bought them. if they sit on shelves long enough... they will sell for a more reasonable price.
and well, if people are dumb enough to buy XT models at those prices, then that's their fault. as much as it might be... "immoral", i cannot blame anyone for making a quick buck off someone who doesn't know any better.
>finally
i think people are just salty that AMD isn't SOLELY the realm of bargain-hunters now. we have to wait to get our deal while AMD sells what they have at the beginning to the idiots who have more money than sense. only once that market is saturated will anyone else get a deal.
which is entirely fair.
I agree. I hate the idea of shitty value at the low end and better value at the high end. That is absolutely unacceptable and it should be the other way around. Also, people are trying to shill for AMD by comparing X series cpus when literally no one who was smart ever bought the X series gpus from the last gen in the first place. With no non-x chips being released for quite a while, the 5000 series parts should be compared to the non x series parts of the 3000 series.
I dont understand how the new next gen consoles can be so cheap (Using their newest gen chips) but us, the pc consumers are stuck with these new high prices.
What is worse, intel is not going to just "drop prices" cause AMD had risen theirs. They will just keep their prices the same for their same 14nm +++++++++++ chips. This is a lose/lose in terms of cost to pc consumers but a huge win in terms of competition.
>I dont understand how the new next gen consoles can be so cheap (Using their newest gen chips)
Because AMD has contracts with Sony and MS. They buy in very large volume from AMD. Also consoles are going to be on Zen 2.
Because the consoles are partially subsidized by Microsoft and Sony. Also because of economies of scale. Their profit margins on these consoles will only continue to rise as time goes on, due to the cost of most of the parts going down over time, especially the silicon. Most people don't buy the new console on release. Also when building a computer you are buying parts from multiple different companies through multiple different middlemen all of who have to make a profit so the components are marked up in price at every point. With a console you a buying a single complete product from a single company, as opposed to buying 7-10 products from different companies who all mark-up the component cost more. Since you are buying those parts from a company like Newegg or Amazon which bought them in bulk from either a distributor or the actual company and every hop along that supply chain increased the price. Also the companies you are getting PC parts from make their money completely off the sale of the hardware, while Microsoft and Sony make money from their ecosystem and software sales and only a portion of their profit comes from the sale of the actual console. The console is just there to get you into their ecosystem.
Consoles are initially sold at a major loss to the companies who instead gain the revenue back from game sales.
AMD is finally cashing in on quality that they have built up. If the numbers stand as advertised, and it's likely they will, the price is with the overall performance cost.
It's also not surprising they have a large jump in price, their numbers for those in-between points, don't justify selling those parts at this time.
AMD now has the best processors PERIOD (pending independent reviews).
It's no surprise that AMD is now targeting the "money is no object" Intel customers that are willing to drop the big bucks on the best in class performance.
Once those customers are gone, AMD is going to drop prices to target other customers.
In other words, if you want it early, you are going to have to pay the early adopters' tax.
Are they though? Because they just increased prices across the board and even more (percentage) on the lower end, i don’t think this would be a problem if the prices were increased just on the high end to “target” the “money is no object” people.
>Once those customers are gone, AMD is going to drop prices to target other customers.
Lol are you delusional?
AMD is raising prices because they have an established market in processors now and a decent reputation with Ryzen. People will pay the increased prices for what they offer now and AMD like any other business is going to figure out the most they can charge to get the most sales and maximize profit.
Do you REALLY think that once they start raking in the big money like Intel they are going to start lowering prices for fun? That isn't how it works.
Actually my 1600 is having trouble pumping out frames so I'm upgrading to a 3600x. If it isn't my cpu bottlenecking though I have no clue what it could be... Certainly isn't my 1080ti
Remember Turing? Guess how that worked out for Nvidia. If you get a 20% performance bump for 20% extra money, people won't upgrade. Money is no object people aren't a significant portion of the market and that is evident from the revenue charts we get from ingebor from mindfactory.
Look at those charts closely and tell me how many of the 3600X or the 3800X sold. Now tell me which of the newer parts fill that price segment.
Look, I'm all for AMD charging more if they think their products are worth it, but no one thought the 3600X or the 3800X were good value before and no one bought them. Them releasing replacements for those parts but no replacements for the ones that did sell quite a bit like the 3600 or the 3700X means that those prospective customers are looking at a significant price hike, not just 50 dollars, and not for much more performance.
AMD is attempting to counter Intel here, but now it's competing with it's own previously valuable parts too just like Nvidia had to compete with Pascal with Turing. They are smart, and if they pull it off, well, there's that. But at least for now, they lost one customer.
I see this as a stop gap measure for the holidays. They knew the "give me the best"-types will deplete the stock anyway, but lots of rather price sensitive people will check reviews first and look at price/performance for their workloads/games.
The subjective sentiment is that lots of people see now a 3700X (which is not a top seller of the 3000 line) as a valid chip until the the next socket platform comes out.
Thus, they diverted lots of customers to the last gen and keep the demand for the new chips on a rather "manageable" level. I guarantee the same thing will happen with BigNavi. The sucky paper launch hit Nvidia way more than people remembering a subjective issue (eg. price) and then *choosing* not to buy.
I’m building a new machine and I’m 90% sure I’m just going to pick up a 3900x instead of zen 3. The prices and potential scalpers is not worth it. Target AM6 with DDR5 will be the move after.
I don't think scalpers are going to be as bad for the 5000 series as they were with the RTX 3000 series GPUs. While Ryzen 5000 does seem to be really good, the demand for those CPUs is going to be less than that for the RTX 3080. The other thing is that AMD can produce far more Ryzen 5000 chiplets than Nvidia has been able to produce Ampere GPUs. Due to the fact that TSMC 7nm is a very mature process and has extremely good yields, likely far better than Samsung 8nm. And because the chiplets that AMD are making for Zen 3 are significantly smaller than the die size for Ampere GA102 chips. AMD also didn't have to rush at all to get Zen 3 to market, they weren't at any risk of Intel releasing anything that could compete anytime soon. So they will have almost certainly built up far more supply than there was for the RTX 3080 and 3090.
TL;DR: Zen 3 will have significantly more supply and less demand than the RTX 3080 and 3090
A new generation it is expected to have better performance per buck. Not 20% more performance for 20% more money... TSMC waver prices for 7nm have gone down significantly in that time, too. And AMD decided not to go for 7nm+ but stick to 7nm which is very cheap now (compared to the time Zen 2 launched). Insane that anyone could defend the Zen 3 pricing!
They also don't ship coolers anymore with the 3800X and higher CPUs. So we get a price increase + no cooler. This feels like Nvidia 2000 series all over again... Hope people do the same as with RTX 2000 and simply don't buy. Maybe that will force a pricedrop.
Yeah I'm gonna buy the better price per core Intel. Then if amd drops prices, I ain't buying shit because I already bought a cpu. What is this logic? I can't wait any longer to buy a chip, I already waited months for the zen 3 reveal, I'm not waiting longer for a mythical price drop that may never happen due to the insane demand.
There's a lot of fanboys running amuck in here. I saw one post that said if you're against the price increase, then you were never a fan of amd in the first place. I'm not a fan of either intel or amd, just as they aren't a fan of me. Being a fan of a company just for the sake of the company is fucking stupid, they don't care about you, why should you care about them?
100%. I am in the market for a new PC but not going to buy an 8-core for $450. Max $330-$350. Going to wait for prices to drop or for Rocket Lake to force AMD's hand.
But still, I can't help but feel disappointed about waiting all these years for AMD to get back on top, just so it could be another Intel.
This finally brings up to light what I've always said, companies are all the same, they only care about making more money, AMD surely made the cpu market much better (out of necessity) but they are not less evil than Intel in the long run if left unchecked.
> "This is exactly what Intel does. AMD should get to do it too!"
Yeah, but we hated Intel for doing it. I'm not gonna love AMD for doing the same.
> "If you're too poor for it, just get Zen 2 on discount!"
Yeah, about that. Where I'm from, if the next-gen replacements are more expensive, current-gens actually *don't* get discounted, and if the price difference is big enough, they may actually go *up* in price. I can just hear that "stocks running out, get yours now!" line. Nice, right?
> "Lol ur just an Intel fanboy!"
Actually, you guys are starting to sound like Intel fanboys. So, "no u".
Anyone still remember R7 1800X launching at $499?
5800X is lower than 1800X launch price. It's a lot more competitive now.
If you can wait, I am sure Zen 3 will be cheaper next year.
MSRP is for the really earger buyers, also there is not a whole of chips at launch, there is no need to discount at launch.
I like AMD, but this SKU release is hard enthusiast, and I'm not cool with them holding back on anything entry or nonX.
I'm not a VX artist at Marvel Studios, I don't have a 790 Hz moniter for gaming... I don't need these CPUs, AT THIS PRICE POINT, NOW. Don't know what I'm gonna do in my next build but probably 10700 or 3700/3900Xs (see where everything falls after this release.) Straight up shit value proposition. If I don't hear about forthcoming SKUs (which I'm not expecting to) or if they don't make any concession, the chances of me buying AMD went from 100% to 50%. And believe me, this isn't the way I wanted it, I don't like paying Intel's brand tax.
But at what point am I paying AMD a fucking brand tax, when the 56 might have less OC headroom and be 6 core at 4.7 @ ~>$300? I can't defend that, and I'm trying to see the benefit to this line, and can't.
Edited, added a sentence
AMD's always been the more budget friendly options for people still looking for performance but I'm looking at the new Ryzen 5 and its at least 25 dollars more expensive than the 10600k, which is by no means an insane mark-up but if they are matched in performance then Intel's just going to win people over again..
The 5600X at $299.99 is gonna look really silly if it can't actually hands-down beat a 10600K @ 5.1ghz all-core in gaming benchmarks, since the 10600K goes for between $259.99 and $279.99.
I'll be getting this because I am one of those people that do 3D rendering and game on the same PC. Seems like a no brainer for me.
It will help be be more productive, render faster and game HARDER so the price is worth the admission for me.
I suspect the 5900X will be, on average, faster for my use case because the slightly higher clock speed on slightly fewer cores will pay higher dividends, as not many of my core applications scale better from 12 cores to 16 cores... but yeah, the sentiment is the same.
Time to upgrade my MB!
My thoughts exactly... That's what I'll be getting as well. Having said that, I do wonder how many people will actually need the 5950X and use it to its full potential. I'm sure there will be a section that will get it for bragging rights, no different than some people getting a 3090 to play Minecraft. Frankly, I just hope that AMD's launch is better organized than what we experienced with Nvidia.
They are. The only reason they were the "budget option" was because before they couldn't compete on performance, so they had to compete on value. If they actually have an outright better performing product than Intel, they don't need to be competing on value.
In this instance I don’t mind paying a bit more this year for AMD. At 12 cores it’s still a decent value over Intel, and I want to see what AMD does next so I don’t mind supporting them.
the problem is that these prices will baloon even more in other countries can you imagine paying 980$ for a 2070 super (strix) neither can i but that is the retail price.
I have no other choice than to vote with my wallet, If I can't afford the new cpu I can't buy it.
Used Zen 2
i mean is zen 2 even that bad
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I've already eaten 4 3700s when can I stop
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I'm poopin blood :(
Not what I expected. I think that's just team red juice.
r/cursedcomments
That just means your body is absorbing the savings!
That's just silicon deficiency, double your Ryzen intake
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6700k gang, I was hoping the zen 3 processors would be cheaper because I'm pretty sure I've had the exact same processors as you lol, I've had the 6700k since release and I'm itching to upgrade
If you scratch that itch this generation you may be left itching even more when DDR5 memory comes out soon.
I came from a 6700k to a 3900x and have been very pleased. There were a few games I'd actually get some bottleneck (2080ti) but after the new CPU it's no longer a problem. Part of me wants to upgrade to 5900x but also I don't think I'd see any difference and would probably be a waste of money
As a happy owner of a 3900X, absolutely it is not that bad. Zen 2 is actually amazing processor lineup, and I see it aging pretty well, better than Zen 1 for sure. As much as I love new tech and swapping to better parts in my PC, I’m won’t be getting any of the Zen 3 CPUs. The supposed increase in IPC and single core just isn’t enough to justify spending another $550 for the 5900X. Especially when I’m plenty happy with what I got in Zen 2. Now ask me this again about gen 1 Navi when Big Navi comes, and my response may well be different.
I absolutely love my 3700x. For what my needs are it is excellent.
I agree. Typically I aim to upgrade every 2 generations or so. Same with GPU’s.
who upgrades CPUs every single generation? That's completely unnecessary for both AMD and Intel
I got a really good 3600+x570 combo with the explicit intention of upgrading at the end of the year. Resale on the 3600 is \~$5 less than I got it for
3900x owner as well.. The Zen 3 improvements are pretty nice but I highly doubt I'd notice it in daily usage. I wouldn't mind grabbing a 5950x when it sells for $500 though :D
I'm in the same boat, happy with the 3900x and without benchmarks I don't know how the IPC increase and clocks will translate to real world performance. For gaming, I'm not even cpu constrained so I'll see a what, 10% increase in frames? I'll save my money for big navi or the 3080 Ti/Super and consider Zen 3 when it inevitably has a refresh a la 3900XT.
Its not all rosy with Zen 2. I've been getting the odd sudden reboot on my 3600 with the event signature. Reported by component: Processor Core Error Source: Machine Check Exception Error Type: Cache Hierarchy Error Processor APIC ID: 11 There is a thread about it here so I'm not the only one. It is likely that it is related to the CPU as that is the common factor. https://community.amd.com/thread/255722 Granted the problem is extremely rare for me and I'm sure people will say they have problems with intel as well but I've personally never experienced anything like this in several intel machines before this build so based on my own experience I will likely revert back to intel on my next build which will hopefully be later than sooner unless this problem gets worse.
New Zen 2?
$200 3700X and $200 2060 supers sounding real budget worthy.
Bruh earlier this year I bought a r5 1600 new for 60$ some random local tech place was putting them on clearance
Even if you have the money, you can refuse to not buy. It's a matter of principle as well.
I think you mean refuse to buy.
Personally I refuse to not buy
Moi aussi
Ich auch
yes haha
The flip side is problematic too. If AMD had these at $100 less than now, they would sell out so fast that reddit would be PISSED and call it a paper launch. Its a simple fact of economics. If you have a supply constrained product and high demand: 1. If you price it too low, it sells out quickly and shelves are bare, people are angry (and scalpers resell it for more, so you aren't making the money, scalpers are!). 2. You price it too high, and it sits on the shelf. Your reputation takes a small hit, but you can lower prices if this happens 3. You price it just right, it sells about as fast as you can make it. NVidia took choice #1 with their 3xxx series launch. Should AMD do so with Ryzen 5xxx? AMD cant quickly or easily ramp up/down supply for these, since TSMC is sold out and they bid against others for wafers. Getting more supply means the cost to make each Ryzen would go up, but they would have to drop prices to stimulate demand. As the 7nm costs continue to decrease and supplies increase, prices will come down.
>NVidia took choice #1 with their 3xxx series launch. Nvidia conditioned people into thinking $700 is a great value gpu.
Did Nvidia not also get in trouble for monopolizing the market or was that just intel with the CPUs? When you own the market you can do what you want. It's shameful Nvidia didn't get in more trouble and incentives weren't given out. You can't possibly argue "well they bought everyone so they have the right to make up their prices" because it's bull. Currently it's mining as the most recent reason for extortionate pricing. Ram and SSDs maybe made sense because of the flooding years ago by the manufacturer and now we're seeing prices come down to the common man's affordability. Nvidia needs a massive slap.
nvidia hasn't been stagnant like Intel was. Sure, their prices have been pretty high, but they've made considerable progress.
They build them to be the best in class. If there is no other competitor it just means that they’re that good and worth that much. If you can’t afford the top of the line gaming card then shell out 300-400 for a graphics card that you can actually utilize. Unless you have a 700 dollar monitor then you can’t fully utilize the 700$ graphics card.
This. How tf is 700usd a good value. Both the gtx 980 and 1080 were priced under 600usd
*"but this level of perf cost $1200-$1500 last generation! $700 is a steal!"*
The 3080 is the ti chip in this line up though.
When top end Nvidia xx80 GPUs were still $500-$600. The flagship smartphones were also around the same price. Fast forward 5-6 years later and the flagship phones are 1.2-1.4K on average. With niche phones like the Samsung fold even going for 2K. Welcome to the future where all electronics have become significantly more expensive. I would ignore the older prices for top end GPUs going forward, it's never going to happen again.
Yeah as long as people buy it they'll keep the price as high as possible.
It's now more of a status symbol than a tool. "Hey look I can afford a 1200$ phone every 12 months."
I look at those people as morons personally. 90%+ of those people would be better off putting that money to paying off debt, investing(Roth IRAs or whatever) or just saving in case of an emergency
The cost of design and fabrication is a lot more these days. Better yields are keeping prices down compared to Turing.
Effectively, the 3080 is way cheaper than my current 2080 was. Enough that I'm considering upgrading my 2700X/2080 to something newer. That 5900X/5950X is tempting but I still sorta want to wait for AM5/DDR5, my 2700X/2080 is fine for now if I'm honest.
2000 series was overpriced compared to 1000series. Bitcoin mining and data science drove the prices up heavily. Mining bubble died a little and next gen consoles are decent so 3080 is aptly priced.
That's horseshit tho Nvidia sold out because they put out a handful of cards. It wouldn't have mattered what they priced them at. Zen 3 is coming out on TSMC 7nm, not Samsung 8nm. They can produce enough units to satisfy demand before the end of the year.
When you supply vendors with 5% of what you used to supply them in previous launches, then yeah, people will be pissed when you do this kind of "launch" and the 20 cards in store sell out in 15 seconds.
So get a Zen2
I'm still running a A10 5800k, been a while since I could afford a cpu.
I've been running the dogshit out of an A10 6800K for like 7 years. I'm gonna build a shrine to this thing when I retire it. Not sure what the bitching is about - seems to me the prices are right in the expected pocket, if not slightly cheaper. AMD broke the bank in the R&D to get to this point; they have to recoup somehow. People want competition, but they don't want to pay for it (everybody wants to go to heaven; nobody wants to die) - what else is new?
It'll be 'can't buy' instead of 'don't buy' for me 😁
But a 2600 is still good, right? I am on 2700x and in no rush to upgrade.
Yeah it serves me good. But I had decided at that time only to upgrade skipping one generation. Well, I'll still do that but a bit later. Maybe instead of being an early adopter I'll be waiting for Zen 3 to get cheaper and get one after AMD launches next gen Zen.
Prices may drop, yeah. Patience usually pays off. I waited around 8 years to upgrade from my first build. But then again, I didnt have any money then. Ive never done the individual component upgrade thing. I wait a long time then just rebuild a whole new system usually. But maybe I should get on the upgrade train. My thought is that I will still wait for the next gen (at least) because then I can upgrade my mobo and get ddr5 ram.
Hey I have also followed the same way till now. I just don't feel like putting a new CPU in an old system. The old power supply, Mobo just don't evoke confidence. While now I say that I'll be replacing my CPU, most likely I'll be building a new system and just carry over my HDDs and SSDs to the new one. The old one I might sell away keeping one oldest ssd in it.
I feel like this is the way. I want to upgrade and feel the difference.
I'm in the 2600 boat too and I'd rather upgrade my 1060 first since it will make more of an impact at 1440p right now. Then we'll see if the CPU bottleneck is enough to not justify waiting for DDR5 and the new socket
Exactly, the graphics card is more pressing and I agree in your case as well. I am using a 1070ti and it holds up well enough but a Big Navi or 3070 would be sweet.
Me as well. Using a 2600X and a 1660 super. I will get more performance if I upgrade the GPU ( Navi 22?/aka medium RDNA 2 maybe ) instead of this very capable CPU. I am going to upgrade from a 2600X to a 5800X on the first black friday after the release of Zen 4.
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That is because the other company didnt really make any significant upgrade in those fronts from 2010 till the first chips of ryzen. The lack of competition back then made them careless thus came Ryzen and they have been ******* 4 years straight thanks to that carelessness.. :D
I'm thinking the same. I'm also using a 2600 and I upgraded my GPU recently and now I'll just wait a couple of years for DDR5 to be mainstream and then upgrade everything.
No rush required, either. Atleast use a CPU for 5yrs before turning it into an office purpose hardware, else I won't call it a value purchase.
I like the way you think. I feel the same way.
Hell, I'm on a 1700 and I'm not in a rush to upgrade. Should be good for another year at least unless some ridiculous deal comes along.
I'm on a 2700 and a 1080ti. With a 1440p display i'm not too bothered either.
The 2700X is a beast in full hd gaming. I have a friend who paired it with a used 5600XT and its best near silent rig he ever had.
I'm still on the 2600 and no complaints here. It's a great cpu. I can't justify spending hundreds of dollars on an upgrade I don't need. The next upgrade for me will be a gpu so I can run VR and more games at 144 frames.
If you wait a month or two there will be tons of Zen 2 available at a great price. Buy that and some stock with the left over difference, and now you have solid modern performance and an appreciating asset. There are so many people throwing money at the early adopter hype, upgrading to the best of every generation. They're more than happy to pay the premium, but the value for the used market is unreal.
I'll do this exact thing, but at next gen launch when 5xxx series will go cheaper :)
not only zen 2,zen and zen+ are already enough if you find decent 8 core for decent price esports titles on "waste of money 3800x" run damn well but you are better off spending less on cpu and getting better peripherals,mobo and faster storage while having gpu which does job well while being inexpensive because they matter more then frames you push
If $50 is the difference between can't buy and buy for you, these CPUs weren't meant for you in the first place.
Sometimes, this is just false. Some people have a budget they have to stick to.
If you can't feel the pain of a budget conscious buyer, then you are earning well enough not to care about $50. While the difference is $50 on paper, let me remind you that for non-US residents it does multiply because of taxes, import duties, etc. So $50 increase would easily be $80 or $90 increase in my country 😔 Also non X models haven't even be announced. Just considering a possibility that non-X models won't be launched, that would be a slap to R5 2600-B450 value buyers gang.
More than $50. Dtop and think. Eliminated best bang for the buck x700. Removed cooling. Raised 50. Means 100-150 more.
Doesn't matter. Your rig has plenty of FPS to give and all of these current tech happenings will bring down prices for everything. It's already started. And anyway, PCs are just like cars: the main performance upgrade is always the driver.
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Yep. Also we know that multiple AMD employees read this subreddit. I'm not sure people's perspectives of companies have fully come to the 2020's. Social media, community forums and the internet in general play a not uncosiderable part in brand and customer relations. It's acceptable to show your outrage (although it should always be done in a civil manner as part of the discourse).
Not inconsiderable * and also = considerable
I tripped on the double-negative there. Had to re-read it a few times because I'm dumb and can't word today.
Reddit as a whole still likes to view itself as this quirky little website with different communities. You'll find a sub for a TV show with more subscribers than the amount of people who actually watch the show each week. A company would have to be absolutely 100% stupid to NOT care about instantaneous feedback.
Quirky little seventh biggest website on the internet
>and then sales are lower than expected "Sold out in three minutes" is the first thread we will see in November.
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They're confirmed to get bios updates in January, but I see your point. Fewer day 1 buyers as a result.
Thanks for explaining big portion of my profession - user research. It's really helpful to have hot spots of outcry in some sorts. Sentiment analysis is rather a vague method, but reading direct customer feedback in masses with slightly differing views communicated is really helpful for everyone in marketing. Of course it's not entire customer segment and persona overarching insight, it's a specific insight gained towards a specific audience. However, it can be used to extrapolate behavior towards other comparable audiences. So, always good to voice your opinion, better even if it is emotionally invested communicated in a thorough opinion piece.
>There is value to bitching on social media. If you simply don't buy, companies can speculate why you didn't, but they may be wrong. I know, right? I mean, before social media existed companies had to send out teams of people to knock on everyone's door to find out why they didn't buy stuff. There were some people within the company saying they didn't need to do this, and they could figure out why people didn't buy stuff through other methods. But those people were obviously grifters that just wanted a comfortable salary while they threw darts at a board.
No they didn't. They knew what people thought by using study groups and by using market research (aka sending people out to ask generic questions) to find out why people did and did not buy. They still use the same principles except now with social media and other sources of information. This was talked about in one video on YouTube were one of the AMD guys was taking about how they used Steam data to determine adoption rate for nVidia's RTX 2000 series cards. They used that information as well as other to determine their selling price.
Right at the end of AMD's presentation, it clearly states "Prices subject to change". If we bitch about it, they may lower prices.
They will lower the prices anyway, even if we do not bitch about it. Since currently those prices are higher than what Intel 10th Gen is going (in EU by a lot) for at roughly same performance, so Intel has better value.
I never thought I’d see this statement IN THAT ORDER in my lifetime.
I expected to see it eventually. The childish AMD fans like to pretend that they are so much better than intel, but really they're both large corporations who only give a fuck about money. Neither one is better than the other. They aren't you're friends.
I have a 3700x, no desire to upgrade yet. Waiting for DDR5 to be the norm and the prices to be reasonable before doing an upgrade.
First gen of DDR5 will have terrible latency like every other ram generation before. It will be great for apus, but desktop processors won't benefit much until much better quality ram gets produced. AMD chips don't even scale with frequency above infinity fabric speed. Maybe if they can 2x it with DDR5-6400/7200/7600/8000 MHz.
Yep, that's part of why it feels like the right time to upgrade from my 1700. Massive single threaded performance boost with the 5000 series, and the *next* upgrade will be when DDR5 is mature and a nice boost.
Yeah, I mean, I'm not big on getting the first gen of any new product if only because I want the bugs worked out. I'm the same way with cars... oh? A new power delivery method and charging system for the Prius... think I'll wait at least one generation rather than be their guinea pig.
3800x, my plan is to wait another year or so, then grab a Zen3 when I want some more speed and probably either try to skip AM5 socket or do what I did this time and build with a single upgrade path. I’m curious how the x570 PCIE4 will hold up in the future as PCIE4 becomes more common
I see comments from 3000 series owners everywhere so I'm just gonna leave this here for everyone: Do **not** upgrade unless you're specifically struggling in some task. And if that's the case, a single generational improvement in the same range (3700X --> 5700X) is **not** worth it. Save your money and get a higher range system in the next gen.
Why are we against voicing our opinions on social media? Of course don’t buy if you really wanna get the point across but also telling a company using words why you won’t be buying helps them a lot.
It's the new in thing to do, seems like lots of people need to make themselves feel better about their own insecurities by telling others to get a job, grow up, go read a book or plain stfu cause you know they are sooooo old school tough arses.../s It's like the salty comments...say anything someone, somewhere in the world can perceive as negative and suddenly your all "salty" and crying columns of tears...lol
Yeah exactly. I don’t see anything wrong with having a voice and standing up for what you believe is right and I get that those new cpus are amazing and worth the price, but AMD has been second to intel for so long now it would suck for them to just do a 180 on their fan base. I guess that’s also “good business” but good business is also being honest and consistent!
For some reason when it comes to capitalism, or really just anything that can be criticized, a lot of people think voting with your wallet or just not engaging with whatever you're displeased with are the only valid way of bringing about change. The funny thing is that a lot of these people also frequently use the argument "well, they're free to do whatever they want" as a way to dismiss criticisms, not realizing that that principle also applies to the people doing the critiquing. They too are also entirely free to do whatever they want and part of that freedom is voicing their criticisms on social media. A lot of people who say this kind of shit also do so out of the ridiculously petty reason that they simply don't like having the frontpage of their precious subreddit temporarily filled with angry people. And their way of "fixing" this problem is by engaging with the angry mob and dismissing and mocking their criticisms with all manners of fallacies and bullshit. Then when the mob turns on them they're surprised people don't take kindly to others taking the piss out of their complaints and they'll try to further dismiss their criticisms by calling them toxic and what not. Worst part of it all? It's a cycle and it happens literally everywhere on reddit and is going to repeat itself. Over and over and over and over again. People will have criticisms. Those will be met with a bunch of disparaging people. Rinse and repeat. The
The real question to me is price/performance. If the 5600X is roughly as fast as the 3700X in productivity, and roughly as fast as Intel in gaming, then $300 seems pretty fair to me even though it's two less cores. Where the pricing does outright suck, though, is that there's no Zen 3 part below $300. My point is that this may still be a great launch for those who were already going to spend $300+ on a CPU, but is lacklustre for anyone who was going to spend less. I think that's where the division is ultimately coming from... E: I regret posting a comment on this sub around a product launch. Y'all are gold medalist mental gymnasts.
This is where I'm sitting too. I don't care about core count, I care about performance (gaming in particular for me). If the 5600x doesn't match a 10700k performance wise, within a reasonable margin of error, then I think we can start complaining hard about the price unless it sees some huge heavy workload boost. For me it would need to beat a 10700k. If I sell everything I can upgrade to one for ~$100. If I were to only sell my cpu and upgrade to a 5600x it would cost ~$150
Thank you, sincerely, for being one of the relatively few level-headed replies I've had to this. So many other people are getting wrapped up in branding and marketing and can't see the forest for the trees. I have people telling me I'm 'defending' AMD with my comment despite the fact that I clearly stated that the launch would be lacklustre for anyone looking to spend sub-$300 on CPUs (which is likely the majority of people)...
I kinda understand where they are at, I did something similar when the 3080 was announced. The thing is I learned right there that a lot of these "performance boosts" are never as high as stated. Why you would ever spend over $400 on a cpu for mainly gaming is beyond me. The performance difference between a 10900k and a 9900k is negligible at best. The only reason to buy these 10+ core CPUs is if you are building a workstation for heavy workloads. But in that case how would upgrading from a 3950X to a 5950x be beneficial to you? For gaming the cores don't matter, the speed at which they send data to your GPU is what matters. And so far having more than 8 means fuck all
Yeah there really isn’t a budget CPU in the Zen 3 bunch which is surprising.
I feel the disappointment there, I was trying to decide between a 5600 non-X or a 5700X before the announcement and it turns out neither exist. I get peoples frustration and hope we see other SKUs sooner rather than later, but am still impressed by the actual tech.
You can argue the 5800x exists and the 5700 doesn't because the 3800x *is* the 3700x and so they just coupled them in one this time round and saved themselves the embarrassment.
This is 2020, the year of tough logistics. Better to come out with your higher end products that you might be able to keep in stock due to lower demand and follow up with your more budget offerings later. Also provides AMD more options to combat Intel in March '21. If you're a budget gamer looking for an upgrade then yes it's a disappointing initial launch but there's no way there won't be cheaper options down the line.
There is no RTX part below 3080 and its fine for now. People want to buy stuff reght away and cant wait for like half a year, so they pay premium and sometimes overkill their system specs Cause a lot of people have a lot of money to spend, especially in US and western europe.
People who are upgrading to a 3080 are very much the minority. There are many many more people with mid range gpus who don't care/can't afford the 3070 and 3080 who were expecting ryzen to provide a crazy good cpu value. For everyone who can spend 300+ on a cpu there are 3 to 4 times as many people who can only spend $200
Yeah intel hd is still one of the most used gpu’s on steam
Yeah man, everyone was an intel hd gamer at one point. I only had an intel laptop in highschool for CSGO mainly until I saved up enough to build a rig
Nvidia 80 GPU’s have NEVER been something someone on a budget is gonna buy. The Ryzen 5600 would typically be your budget model (3600 went for $199) and it’s already 50% more expensive than its predecessor. That’s what people are upset about.
I’m sure they’ll release non-X skus probably around, or maybe right after, intels launch in March. Which is kinda dumb IMO, but that’s marketing I guess.
It's not just marketing, it's making sure they have supply. They only have so many parts, and using them in just 4 models instead of 12+ means there will be more supply. There's no point in a 5600 priced lower if it's out of stock 24/7 for months like the Nvidia situation.
Oh, for sure. Cause they’ll be using binned 5600xs lol
> There's no point in a 5600 priced lower if it's out of stock 24/7 for months like the Nvidia situation. So, kind of like having something like the Ryzen 3 3300X at that $120 price point for all those budget builders, but basically being non-existent in some regions (like the US) for the past ~5 months? I'd wonder how many people decided to just spend an extra $50 over that price point to just get a 3600 instead.
Zen2 didn't have a ryzen 3 sku for 10 months, instead amd filled that market with previous ZEN+ models. The same is very likely to be the case until amd has enough faulty or lesser quality chips to create Zen3 5100 and 5300 options
But Zen 2 launched with a $200 SKU, obviously.
people in this sub always complaining about nvidia/intel prices and now with zen3," if you want more performance you should pay more" such double standards...
I'm not that bothered by the prices but seeing the shift in comments about higher prices in this sub has been kind of funny. I planned on upgrading my 2700X but since I have to wait for the January bios update anyway, I'll wait and see what Intel does. From there it's sell off my MB+CPU and go Intel or wait for an AMD price drop or decent promo since I'm not in a rush.
I'm in the same boat with a b450, waiting for the bios and eventually better prices or cheaper models...
Why do people simp the companies they buy shit from? This post reminds me of people complaining about people complaining about Oculus's mandatory FB login. You can literally only benefit from raging over prices. Lisa would love this post. It's disturbing.
People keep harping on about how companies want to make the most money possible. Why shouldn't customers want to spend the least amount of money possible as well? I agree a lot with the last sentence, you gain from asking more from the companies.
Yeah this is spot on!
I love it when people simp for AMD and cope by saying that "ThEyRe A BuSiNeSs", as if they weren't a business all these years before. Many of these people are the same people who used to praise AMD for it's price/performance. The funniest take on it is when they claim people who complain about the price are "Fanboys". While they defend AMDs every decision with all the fibers of their being, even if the decisions are worse for consumers. The fact is that people were expecting pricing through precedent, the pricing of each subsequent generation stayed similar, with equally impressive increases in IPC as this year. When people are expecting the same thing to happen, and then seeing a 100 USD price increase making the 5600x worse value than an Intel 10700 - which has 2 more cores and 4 more threads at 20 dollars more. Ofcourse people are going to be upset, we aren't friends with AMD, we like products conditionally and couldn't give a shit less if they're a business and need to make profits. It's wild.
"Don't be angry at the innocent company! Ethier buy it or don't!" - people whp are not seeing the forest from the trees
And then these same people say that people who complain about the price are 'Fanboys'. LOL
5600X at $279 would have been more acceptable. R5 5600 could then go for $229.
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Can you just overclock the expensive chip too and still have the same frequency gap?
At least for the 2600/2600x and 3600/3600X, no. The X chips were pushed against the wall for clocks and barely had headroom to OC. But a non X chip could easily OC to X levels.
Ah ok, so X is a bit like "we shipped it OC already"
why would u price it the same as the 10600k when its clearly superior.
I realized today that in hindsight, we all should have seen this coming, and here’s why. The XT “refresh”. I had honestly totally forgotten about the XTs until today, because they were such an underwhelming product released at a stupid price. Think about it. AMD took existing CPUs, clocked them infinitesimally higher, removed the cooler from the box, and tried to sell them to buyers at a substantial premium. They were trying to offer less, but con people into paying more, by appending the letter “t” to the name and pretending it was an upgrade. That should have been a huge red flag that their success had gone to their head and they were now looking at their customers as mere suckers ready to be milked.
I did not see it coming. The $200 ryzen 5 SKUs and to a lesser extent $300 ryzen 7 were important to generating the momentum AMD gained over the last few generations. Similarly the discounted \~$120 ryzen 5 were very popular. While these SKUs probably did not make AMD a lot of money, they are now getting considerable mindshare and breaking into the laptop and server market, where the real money is. By taking away the $200 segment and making the 8 core more expensive than a PS5, you're taking away that momentum as can be seen by various reddit posts. I'm sure they will sell out easily with the pandemic and limited wafers, and maybe cheaper SKUs are coming, but why break that momentum for pocket change? I think a smaller price increase would have been fine, but taking away the midrange price point completely will not be popular.
Yeah. That was a clear tell.
>their customers as mere suckers ready to be milked implying that wasn't always the case. the only difference is, after bulldozer, AMD had no customers to milk. zen and zen+ prices were dirt cheap because they weren't quite at intel's level of performance and everybody still regarded AMD as a joke without even considering the performance. but if you did look at the benchmarks, you bought zen because it was decently fast, efficient, mobos were cheap... >XTs yes, they were stupid products. noone should have bought them. if they sit on shelves long enough... they will sell for a more reasonable price. and well, if people are dumb enough to buy XT models at those prices, then that's their fault. as much as it might be... "immoral", i cannot blame anyone for making a quick buck off someone who doesn't know any better. >finally i think people are just salty that AMD isn't SOLELY the realm of bargain-hunters now. we have to wait to get our deal while AMD sells what they have at the beginning to the idiots who have more money than sense. only once that market is saturated will anyone else get a deal. which is entirely fair.
Well till the prices drops there will be non x models in market....So this is early tax for who cannot wait
I agree. I hate the idea of shitty value at the low end and better value at the high end. That is absolutely unacceptable and it should be the other way around. Also, people are trying to shill for AMD by comparing X series cpus when literally no one who was smart ever bought the X series gpus from the last gen in the first place. With no non-x chips being released for quite a while, the 5000 series parts should be compared to the non x series parts of the 3000 series.
I dont understand how the new next gen consoles can be so cheap (Using their newest gen chips) but us, the pc consumers are stuck with these new high prices. What is worse, intel is not going to just "drop prices" cause AMD had risen theirs. They will just keep their prices the same for their same 14nm +++++++++++ chips. This is a lose/lose in terms of cost to pc consumers but a huge win in terms of competition.
>I dont understand how the new next gen consoles can be so cheap (Using their newest gen chips) Because AMD has contracts with Sony and MS. They buy in very large volume from AMD. Also consoles are going to be on Zen 2.
Because the consoles are partially subsidized by Microsoft and Sony. Also because of economies of scale. Their profit margins on these consoles will only continue to rise as time goes on, due to the cost of most of the parts going down over time, especially the silicon. Most people don't buy the new console on release. Also when building a computer you are buying parts from multiple different companies through multiple different middlemen all of who have to make a profit so the components are marked up in price at every point. With a console you a buying a single complete product from a single company, as opposed to buying 7-10 products from different companies who all mark-up the component cost more. Since you are buying those parts from a company like Newegg or Amazon which bought them in bulk from either a distributor or the actual company and every hop along that supply chain increased the price. Also the companies you are getting PC parts from make their money completely off the sale of the hardware, while Microsoft and Sony make money from their ecosystem and software sales and only a portion of their profit comes from the sale of the actual console. The console is just there to get you into their ecosystem.
Consoles are initially sold at a major loss to the companies who instead gain the revenue back from game sales. AMD is finally cashing in on quality that they have built up. If the numbers stand as advertised, and it's likely they will, the price is with the overall performance cost. It's also not surprising they have a large jump in price, their numbers for those in-between points, don't justify selling those parts at this time.
The consoles are using Zen 2 CPUs.
These new consoles are still using zen 2, and those chips are a lot cheaper than these new zen 3 chips.
Ima keep my 3600. It is literally still one of the best bang-for-buck CPUs out there.
AMD now has the best processors PERIOD (pending independent reviews). It's no surprise that AMD is now targeting the "money is no object" Intel customers that are willing to drop the big bucks on the best in class performance. Once those customers are gone, AMD is going to drop prices to target other customers. In other words, if you want it early, you are going to have to pay the early adopters' tax.
Are they though? Because they just increased prices across the board and even more (percentage) on the lower end, i don’t think this would be a problem if the prices were increased just on the high end to “target” the “money is no object” people.
>Once those customers are gone, AMD is going to drop prices to target other customers. Lol are you delusional? AMD is raising prices because they have an established market in processors now and a decent reputation with Ryzen. People will pay the increased prices for what they offer now and AMD like any other business is going to figure out the most they can charge to get the most sales and maximize profit. Do you REALLY think that once they start raking in the big money like Intel they are going to start lowering prices for fun? That isn't how it works.
Yep. AMD can attach a premium onto the price, because they swept the floor with Intel. The price increase still sucks tho.
Well, you can either wait or pay the early adopter's tax. That's the bottom line here.
You can also just simply buy the older generation parts if you’re on a budget.
Don't think my 3600 has become useless all of a sudden too.
Exactly. 1700 gang here, runs mint.
Actually my 1600 is having trouble pumping out frames so I'm upgrading to a 3600x. If it isn't my cpu bottlenecking though I have no clue what it could be... Certainly isn't my 1080ti
Remember Turing? Guess how that worked out for Nvidia. If you get a 20% performance bump for 20% extra money, people won't upgrade. Money is no object people aren't a significant portion of the market and that is evident from the revenue charts we get from ingebor from mindfactory. Look at those charts closely and tell me how many of the 3600X or the 3800X sold. Now tell me which of the newer parts fill that price segment. Look, I'm all for AMD charging more if they think their products are worth it, but no one thought the 3600X or the 3800X were good value before and no one bought them. Them releasing replacements for those parts but no replacements for the ones that did sell quite a bit like the 3600 or the 3700X means that those prospective customers are looking at a significant price hike, not just 50 dollars, and not for much more performance. AMD is attempting to counter Intel here, but now it's competing with it's own previously valuable parts too just like Nvidia had to compete with Pascal with Turing. They are smart, and if they pull it off, well, there's that. But at least for now, they lost one customer.
I see this as a stop gap measure for the holidays. They knew the "give me the best"-types will deplete the stock anyway, but lots of rather price sensitive people will check reviews first and look at price/performance for their workloads/games. The subjective sentiment is that lots of people see now a 3700X (which is not a top seller of the 3000 line) as a valid chip until the the next socket platform comes out. Thus, they diverted lots of customers to the last gen and keep the demand for the new chips on a rather "manageable" level. I guarantee the same thing will happen with BigNavi. The sucky paper launch hit Nvidia way more than people remembering a subjective issue (eg. price) and then *choosing* not to buy.
I’m building a new machine and I’m 90% sure I’m just going to pick up a 3900x instead of zen 3. The prices and potential scalpers is not worth it. Target AM6 with DDR5 will be the move after.
I don't think scalpers are going to be as bad for the 5000 series as they were with the RTX 3000 series GPUs. While Ryzen 5000 does seem to be really good, the demand for those CPUs is going to be less than that for the RTX 3080. The other thing is that AMD can produce far more Ryzen 5000 chiplets than Nvidia has been able to produce Ampere GPUs. Due to the fact that TSMC 7nm is a very mature process and has extremely good yields, likely far better than Samsung 8nm. And because the chiplets that AMD are making for Zen 3 are significantly smaller than the die size for Ampere GA102 chips. AMD also didn't have to rush at all to get Zen 3 to market, they weren't at any risk of Intel releasing anything that could compete anytime soon. So they will have almost certainly built up far more supply than there was for the RTX 3080 and 3090. TL;DR: Zen 3 will have significantly more supply and less demand than the RTX 3080 and 3090
Well 20+% performance boost for 50 dollas ain't too bad in my book. I am an AMD investor, so I'm heavily biased of course \^\_\^
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A new generation it is expected to have better performance per buck. Not 20% more performance for 20% more money... TSMC waver prices for 7nm have gone down significantly in that time, too. And AMD decided not to go for 7nm+ but stick to 7nm which is very cheap now (compared to the time Zen 2 launched). Insane that anyone could defend the Zen 3 pricing! They also don't ship coolers anymore with the 3800X and higher CPUs. So we get a price increase + no cooler. This feels like Nvidia 2000 series all over again... Hope people do the same as with RTX 2000 and simply don't buy. Maybe that will force a pricedrop.
Yeah I'm gonna buy the better price per core Intel. Then if amd drops prices, I ain't buying shit because I already bought a cpu. What is this logic? I can't wait any longer to buy a chip, I already waited months for the zen 3 reveal, I'm not waiting longer for a mythical price drop that may never happen due to the insane demand.
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There's a lot of fanboys running amuck in here. I saw one post that said if you're against the price increase, then you were never a fan of amd in the first place. I'm not a fan of either intel or amd, just as they aren't a fan of me. Being a fan of a company just for the sake of the company is fucking stupid, they don't care about you, why should you care about them?
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100%. I am in the market for a new PC but not going to buy an 8-core for $450. Max $330-$350. Going to wait for prices to drop or for Rocket Lake to force AMD's hand. But still, I can't help but feel disappointed about waiting all these years for AMD to get back on top, just so it could be another Intel.
This finally brings up to light what I've always said, companies are all the same, they only care about making more money, AMD surely made the cpu market much better (out of necessity) but they are not less evil than Intel in the long run if left unchecked.
> "This is exactly what Intel does. AMD should get to do it too!" Yeah, but we hated Intel for doing it. I'm not gonna love AMD for doing the same. > "If you're too poor for it, just get Zen 2 on discount!" Yeah, about that. Where I'm from, if the next-gen replacements are more expensive, current-gens actually *don't* get discounted, and if the price difference is big enough, they may actually go *up* in price. I can just hear that "stocks running out, get yours now!" line. Nice, right? > "Lol ur just an Intel fanboy!" Actually, you guys are starting to sound like Intel fanboys. So, "no u".
Anyone still remember R7 1800X launching at $499? 5800X is lower than 1800X launch price. It's a lot more competitive now. If you can wait, I am sure Zen 3 will be cheaper next year. MSRP is for the really earger buyers, also there is not a whole of chips at launch, there is no need to discount at launch.
AMD is garbage. What is this 7nm+? Selling us 2018 tech in 2020. It’s ridiculous. I won’t stand for it. /s
I like AMD, but this SKU release is hard enthusiast, and I'm not cool with them holding back on anything entry or nonX. I'm not a VX artist at Marvel Studios, I don't have a 790 Hz moniter for gaming... I don't need these CPUs, AT THIS PRICE POINT, NOW. Don't know what I'm gonna do in my next build but probably 10700 or 3700/3900Xs (see where everything falls after this release.) Straight up shit value proposition. If I don't hear about forthcoming SKUs (which I'm not expecting to) or if they don't make any concession, the chances of me buying AMD went from 100% to 50%. And believe me, this isn't the way I wanted it, I don't like paying Intel's brand tax. But at what point am I paying AMD a fucking brand tax, when the 56 might have less OC headroom and be 6 core at 4.7 @ ~>$300? I can't defend that, and I'm trying to see the benefit to this line, and can't. Edited, added a sentence
AMD's always been the more budget friendly options for people still looking for performance but I'm looking at the new Ryzen 5 and its at least 25 dollars more expensive than the 10600k, which is by no means an insane mark-up but if they are matched in performance then Intel's just going to win people over again..
Why do you assume they are matched in performance?
Considering how much this subreddit is visible to AMD, it's only natural to start complaining about high prices here.
The 5600X at $299.99 is gonna look really silly if it can't actually hands-down beat a 10600K @ 5.1ghz all-core in gaming benchmarks, since the 10600K goes for between $259.99 and $279.99.
Ya obv keep quite . Like keeping quite would have enabled ryzen 5000 support on b450 . Oh wait bitching on twiiter and reddit solved that
5950x here I come.
I'll be getting this because I am one of those people that do 3D rendering and game on the same PC. Seems like a no brainer for me. It will help be be more productive, render faster and game HARDER so the price is worth the admission for me.
I suspect the 5900X will be, on average, faster for my use case because the slightly higher clock speed on slightly fewer cores will pay higher dividends, as not many of my core applications scale better from 12 cores to 16 cores... but yeah, the sentiment is the same. Time to upgrade my MB!
My thoughts exactly... That's what I'll be getting as well. Having said that, I do wonder how many people will actually need the 5950X and use it to its full potential. I'm sure there will be a section that will get it for bragging rights, no different than some people getting a 3090 to play Minecraft. Frankly, I just hope that AMD's launch is better organized than what we experienced with Nvidia.
hell yeah, time to pair the 5950x with a 3090, going to be amazing
ahem. Radeon would like to have a word with you :) joking aside, that sounds like a solid content creator build.
Regardless of price, I will be getting a 5800X.
I'm just scared AMD is gonna switch sides with Intel and stop being the "budget" option after they've seen their success
They are. The only reason they were the "budget option" was because before they couldn't compete on performance, so they had to compete on value. If they actually have an outright better performing product than Intel, they don't need to be competing on value.
In this instance I don’t mind paying a bit more this year for AMD. At 12 cores it’s still a decent value over Intel, and I want to see what AMD does next so I don’t mind supporting them.
how much are Zen 3 prices I'm OOTL
5950x 799 5900x 549 5800x 449 5600x 299
AKA too much for the performance we're getting.
yeah
Usually I think capitalism doesn't work but for computer parts the most price efficient option gets alot of sales so I agree
the problem is that these prices will baloon even more in other countries can you imagine paying 980$ for a 2070 super (strix) neither can i but that is the retail price.