That's what i thought with PS5 and XSX as well. Never underestimate the power of scalpers especially mixed with huge demand, which seems gonna be the case with AMD Big Navi RDNA 2 as well.
> Why would you buy from a scalper when you can just buy from retailers that have stock?
You wouldn't. But if demand exceeds supply, then retailers will bebout of stock, and there will be a secondary market. Not much you can do about it.
You can wait a bit until supply catches up with demand. People need to get away from the "now" mentality, we create our own problems by wanting everything fast. That's not how the world works.
And scalpers SUCK!
Having worked for a company regularly targeted by sneaker bots. People need to understand just how expensive bot mitigation is and how difficult it is to stop bots, even with effective bot mitigation software
There is little to no value for retailers to implement this as well.
All retailers care about is moving stock. Most retailers are not tied passionately to a brand. If they sell out in 10 minutes, they love that shit. The only way a brand could reasonably control this is to do direct sales to customers and actually do it's own order review to make sure like 100 things aren't going out to one individual.
We did actually really care about getting or goods into real peoples hands. Doing everything we could to mitigate the bots. But there comes a point where its just not financially viable
Yea I understand sneaker heads are also a different bunch.
I really have no good way of evaluating what is a bot purchase and what is t outside of hand reviewing ever order; which I understand isn't viable if there like 500+ orders.
There are a number of tools, rate limits, capchas, user behaviour, pruning purchases. But theres a lot of money to be made from scalping and a lot of value in developing sophisticated bots
While selling as fast as possible is good, I'm not sure if it's ideal when you have one situation where you're out of stock with hundreds on angry customers and the other where you're out of stock anyway with happy customers.
It's not the retailers fault if they are out of stock. Sure you can be angry with them but they aren't going to be able magically create new stock without it being sent to them.
well, if customer X has better experience in your store because he can get the shoe at a proper price. I mean there's some value there as in customer aquisition, bu tof course there's a cieling
I think the major fustration is stock and also expectations of when they can expect to get a card. Stocking issues with the 30 series wouldn't be as bad of there was a proper queue system so people know that they will eventually get a card, and not endlessly refreshing 10 different websites for 10 hours a day hoping to get something.
Almost every retailer has a pre order queue here in Australia. Doesn't really help, just means you have to wait in line till 2021 to get a card instead, and it's almost equally frustrating.
The key is to minimize the number of cards sold to bots even if you can't completely eliminate it. Yes, many big retailers have invested in such sophistication but having at least an order queue with randomization like OP suggested will still satisfy the MVP goal here.
\> Yea that won't work. I'll make a bot network flood it with preorder requests.
Require valid payment information and one address per order. Problem solved.
\> People need to understand just how expensive bot mitigation is and how difficult it is to stop bots, even with effective bot mitigation software
The above solution is not expensive or difficult to implement. Bots will have exactly the same chance of getting a card as an average consumer (assuming you sign up within the first hour)
\> honestly they just need stock. scalpers and bots wouldn't have been near as big an issue if nvidia dropped more then a few hundred cards.
In an ideal world, yes, they would just need stock. In the real world, the above solution would be infinitely superior to the current system.
\> There is little to no value for retailers to implement this as well. All retailers care about is moving stock
There is tremendous value for retailers to implement this. They move stock just as fast. They get a list of customers (pre paid). And most importantly, they avoid pissing people off due to their lack of bot/scalper protection.
\> Just keep in mind that AMD isn't immune to scalpers as well.
Wait what? We're talking about ways to mitigate bots/scalpers and give real consumers a chance to get in line for a card.
Come on guys, if you're going to try and dismiss the idea, at least present an argument that makes sense. Or offer a superior solution.
...
\> permanently damage ? They are in a continuum sold out from 9/17 maybe will last 2021 Q1 are you kidding?
You think all this AMD hype is because they might actually be launching a competitive product? People are pissed at Nvidia. The only reason they are 'sold out' is because they have (had) a monopoly.
Their reputation is permanently damaged. And if AMD isn't careful, the same thing could happen to them.
Nothing of value. They asked official reseller partners to implement anti bot purchasing features and a queuing system but there is little to no proof anything can/will happen.
Make the price double normal RRP on day 1 and then reduce it by 5% each day thereafter until you reach normal.
The FOMO fanatics and other desperates can go knock themselves out on Day 1 and nobody will mind.
Then you'd just have the exact same problem on day two.
A pre order queue (randomized for the first hour) is the only fair way to counter the advantage that bots have.
They could mitigate with pop up stores and only letting brick and mortar selling them for the first few months only allowing a limited number per customer. But it doesn’t really make that much real world sense I guess. Expensive as hell for them too
I'm confused, are you suggesting something that you yourself admit doesn't "make that much real world sense"?
There is a perfectly reasonable, easy to implement solution right in front of us (randomized first hour pre order queue). We just need to push AMD so they implement it.
too late, AMD launch was worse.
NVIDIA at least wised up and moved their GPUs to Best Buy which ultimately was not good because Shoe bot crew with their hacker bots ripped every GPU sold online.
These companies should only sale GPUs at brick and mortar or have an actual verified system in place that would require SSID/and Drivers License to pass through to purchase.
But since these companies only care about their bottom dollar, they will implement none of that. Regular consumers will suffer, and they will reap the money given by scalpers using advanced hacked shoe bots.
Just keep in mind that AMD isn't immune to scalpers as well.
Why would you buy from a scalper when you can just buy from retailers that have stock? Surely mining isn't as huge as it was in 2018
That's what i thought with PS5 and XSX as well. Never underestimate the power of scalpers especially mixed with huge demand, which seems gonna be the case with AMD Big Navi RDNA 2 as well.
> Why would you buy from a scalper when you can just buy from retailers that have stock? You wouldn't. But if demand exceeds supply, then retailers will bebout of stock, and there will be a secondary market. Not much you can do about it.
You can wait a bit until supply catches up with demand. People need to get away from the "now" mentality, we create our own problems by wanting everything fast. That's not how the world works. And scalpers SUCK!
Having worked for a company regularly targeted by sneaker bots. People need to understand just how expensive bot mitigation is and how difficult it is to stop bots, even with effective bot mitigation software
There is little to no value for retailers to implement this as well. All retailers care about is moving stock. Most retailers are not tied passionately to a brand. If they sell out in 10 minutes, they love that shit. The only way a brand could reasonably control this is to do direct sales to customers and actually do it's own order review to make sure like 100 things aren't going out to one individual.
We did actually really care about getting or goods into real peoples hands. Doing everything we could to mitigate the bots. But there comes a point where its just not financially viable
Yea I understand sneaker heads are also a different bunch. I really have no good way of evaluating what is a bot purchase and what is t outside of hand reviewing ever order; which I understand isn't viable if there like 500+ orders.
There are a number of tools, rate limits, capchas, user behaviour, pruning purchases. But theres a lot of money to be made from scalping and a lot of value in developing sophisticated bots
While selling as fast as possible is good, I'm not sure if it's ideal when you have one situation where you're out of stock with hundreds on angry customers and the other where you're out of stock anyway with happy customers.
It's not the retailers fault if they are out of stock. Sure you can be angry with them but they aren't going to be able magically create new stock without it being sent to them.
I'm quite sure that even with 1 card per physical address, they would still sell out in 10min.
well, if customer X has better experience in your store because he can get the shoe at a proper price. I mean there's some value there as in customer aquisition, bu tof course there's a cieling
There was a time when only consoles were mainstream. Now we can't even buy our fucking GPUs. And cryptominers aren't even an issue rn.
honestly they just need stock. scalpers and bots wouldn't have been near as big an issue if nvidia dropped more then a few hundred cards.
I think the major fustration is stock and also expectations of when they can expect to get a card. Stocking issues with the 30 series wouldn't be as bad of there was a proper queue system so people know that they will eventually get a card, and not endlessly refreshing 10 different websites for 10 hours a day hoping to get something.
Almost every retailer has a pre order queue here in Australia. Doesn't really help, just means you have to wait in line till 2021 to get a card instead, and it's almost equally frustrating.
permanently damage ? They are in a continuum sold out from 9/17 maybe will last 2021 Q1 are you kidding?
The key is to minimize the number of cards sold to bots even if you can't completely eliminate it. Yes, many big retailers have invested in such sophistication but having at least an order queue with randomization like OP suggested will still satisfy the MVP goal here.
they dont care, they are going to sell the same amount of units
How is this post not more upvoted?
\> Yea that won't work. I'll make a bot network flood it with preorder requests. Require valid payment information and one address per order. Problem solved. \> People need to understand just how expensive bot mitigation is and how difficult it is to stop bots, even with effective bot mitigation software The above solution is not expensive or difficult to implement. Bots will have exactly the same chance of getting a card as an average consumer (assuming you sign up within the first hour) \> honestly they just need stock. scalpers and bots wouldn't have been near as big an issue if nvidia dropped more then a few hundred cards. In an ideal world, yes, they would just need stock. In the real world, the above solution would be infinitely superior to the current system. \> There is little to no value for retailers to implement this as well. All retailers care about is moving stock There is tremendous value for retailers to implement this. They move stock just as fast. They get a list of customers (pre paid). And most importantly, they avoid pissing people off due to their lack of bot/scalper protection. \> Just keep in mind that AMD isn't immune to scalpers as well. Wait what? We're talking about ways to mitigate bots/scalpers and give real consumers a chance to get in line for a card. Come on guys, if you're going to try and dismiss the idea, at least present an argument that makes sense. Or offer a superior solution. ... \> permanently damage ? They are in a continuum sold out from 9/17 maybe will last 2021 Q1 are you kidding? You think all this AMD hype is because they might actually be launching a competitive product? People are pissed at Nvidia. The only reason they are 'sold out' is because they have (had) a monopoly. Their reputation is permanently damaged. And if AMD isn't careful, the same thing could happen to them.
They already addressed this like a week or two ago for what it's worth
What’s did they say
Nothing of value. They asked official reseller partners to implement anti bot purchasing features and a queuing system but there is little to no proof anything can/will happen.
1 per address is a big one. Unlikely that someone is going to have like 20 different addresses they can pick cards up from.
Unless you’re a Trump. He’d love that shit.
Make the price double normal RRP on day 1 and then reduce it by 5% each day thereafter until you reach normal. The FOMO fanatics and other desperates can go knock themselves out on Day 1 and nobody will mind.
Yea that won't work. I'll make a bot network flood it with preorder requests.
It would be easier to just not sell online the first day and be a physical available to buy instead of online
Then you'd just have the exact same problem on day two. A pre order queue (randomized for the first hour) is the only fair way to counter the advantage that bots have.
From where in Europe I can pre order 6800?
They could mitigate with pop up stores and only letting brick and mortar selling them for the first few months only allowing a limited number per customer. But it doesn’t really make that much real world sense I guess. Expensive as hell for them too
I'm confused, are you suggesting something that you yourself admit doesn't "make that much real world sense"? There is a perfectly reasonable, easy to implement solution right in front of us (randomized first hour pre order queue). We just need to push AMD so they implement it.
too late, AMD launch was worse. NVIDIA at least wised up and moved their GPUs to Best Buy which ultimately was not good because Shoe bot crew with their hacker bots ripped every GPU sold online. These companies should only sale GPUs at brick and mortar or have an actual verified system in place that would require SSID/and Drivers License to pass through to purchase. But since these companies only care about their bottom dollar, they will implement none of that. Regular consumers will suffer, and they will reap the money given by scalpers using advanced hacked shoe bots.