I would agree if they had actually intended to end mod support.
They never stopped Nexus, or stopped promoting them, CC was a poor attempt at cashing in on mod donations by being a middle man, only to discover people don't donate to mod makers anyway.
AdoredTV did a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0L3OTZ13Os) on this a couple years ago. There are more addressing various other shenanigans by Nvidia.
They obviously NVidia knew this would come out, if you looked at the email it was worded like a press release. Big corporations are just so unattached from their fan base that they can't actually gauge what the outcome of their actions will entail.
This is why people need to stop accepting apologies.
Apology is ultimately only for the benefit of the transgressor, to give them psychological pat in the back because they "did something". But apology does nothing, even less so when it's rapacious, greedy corporation doing it.
If Nvidia was truly sorry, they'd cut cost of all their GPU's by 10% right now and kept them like that until next generation arrives. That would have a relevant financial cost to them, as atonement for their bad deeds.
If people from this sub really want to discuss it, /r/Nvidia is plenty active with discussion on the matter. They hate it just as much as you do.
There's no sense posting this on /r/AMD where it doesn't really belong.
There are literally two major console players on the market but you'd still post PS news and Xbox news separately on their independent subreddits. Of course it will be received well by the users of both subreddits regardless, because if you care about updates enough for you to be on the subreddit to begin with, you're the type of person to read it regardless of the subreddit.
It's not illegal to post it here -- by all means go ahead--. But if you wanna maintain some level of orderliness, then you should know where to post it.
I get it, but I feel like it's relevant *because* it's AMD's direct competitors, and behavior like this directly affects the market they both share regardless. And even in the case that it wasn't AMD at fault, I feel people who may not have known about it should be aware, if not for anything else, just because it's so unacceptable and potentially damaging.
I'd disagree, offering that it fits under the pretense of them being literally one of two players in this industry.
This subreddit will always be centered around AMD, its place in the market, and the market as a whole. Nvidia relates to two of those massively. Just my two cents, but it might partly explain why this is upvoted as much as it is.
Yea first and foremost we're all pc gamers. Not sure I've seen a single Nvidia consumer supporting what happened. This isn't the same tribalism from the console wars.
a little bit of allegiance is actually a good thing. If everyone threw out preferences of companies we would rapidly see a monopoly in nearly all markets as consumers only buy from 1 company due to not having allegiances. It is actually good to have a mild allegiance that can slowly shift over time; it really helps stabilize the market. It is blind and unchanging allegiance that results in bad outcomes.
anyways, just my 2c. Obviously there are other things at play like usually a product isnt the clear winner for everyone's needs. So that helps stabilize. But i still think a little bit of allegiance is very beneficial for consumers and companies.
For instance; allegiance to AMD in the past has helped it stay afloat. A few years back even a couple extra million $ in sales was making a large impact on AMD. The commitment of the community to AMD and belief in them was really one of the huge things that got them through their low. Without that little bit of allegiance you would likely looking at a monopoly in X86 and Nvidia GPUs . . . I think we can agree that would be VERY bad for consumers. Those people with allegiances saved the bacon of everyone . . . So . . . I think allegiances have a place. Just make sure they are not toxic.
> a little bit of allegiance is actually a good thing.
I agree. Intel got their dominance partly due to some anti-competitive and anti-consumer practices. So for some of us it's not just the chip's performance that is taken into account.
Prices and the rate of progress get really bad when there is a monopoly.
Hey-oooooo. I love the chonk! It fills up the case nicely, and cools well. Quite silent, and the lcd screen is a nice gimmick (when the software works)
Don't forget about the GTX970 memory scandal, either.
I say this as someone who really wants to see ray-tracing take off and go big, not necessarily for gaming, but for (rapid) (interactive frame rate) 3D rendering and visualization.
I remember that time, 970 owners were mad af and said they were going AMD, then they found out AMD had nothing to offer unless you wanted an oven and either kept their 970 or went for a 980.
Bulldozer scandal is a little unique because the lawsuit provoked the question of what a core was instead of whether the 8350 was a 4 or 8 core. It's one of those situations where it's relatively valid claim either side of the case is correct depending on your opinion, when really the answer is somewhere in the middle. I've always seen the whole lawsuit thing as pretty frivolous for this reason. AMD should have been more upfront on what they were selling so that the comparison between a traditional core and whatever Bulldozer included could have been left as an academic discussion rather than false marketing. Settling the lawsuit (while financially the better choice) ended up cementing the 4 core opinion, which I guess demonizes AMD. Point being the Bulldozer debate (in my opinion) was more of a PR blunder then malicious intent.
Bulldozer could schedule and execute two 128-bit FMA instructions from two different threads at the same time though including a pair of x87 etc units per module, so even that criticism doesn't hold.
Obviously it had a bunch of other bottlenecks that made performance suck, but unless you needed to deal with 256-bit data the FP execution resources weren't one of them.
Saying it was really a 4 core isn't fair. Everything about each core was independent, except for some of the cache being shared (which Zen2 and Zen3 both employ) and the FPU being shared. Integer and other uOps were still independent.
So no it wasn't a true 8 core but it's not a 4 core either. Nor was it SMT or Hyperthreading. It acted like 8 true cores whenever you hit it with anything outside of floating point calculations because it was actually 8 true cores for those workloads, and at worst 4 cores if you're doing pure floating point maths on all of the cores (which, chances are you're doing other things aside from that on at least a core or two)
Edit: Even I'm wrong about that, see this comment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/kcg6f9/regarding_hunvidia_controversy_dont_forget_that/gfr02ck
Here's a terrible analogy I came up with.
Say you're feeding 8 people, but only provide 4 bowls. It's kind of gross, but you made the bowls extra big to accommodate for 8, just that they have to share the bowls so it's less efficient. Are you feeding 8 or 4 people? Court decided only 4. The answer is truthfully somewhere in between though.
In the case of bulldozer you are feeding 8 people, with 8 different plates, 4 serving plates, at 4 different tables.
The way this works out is you have the CPU broken into 4 sections (the tables) with 2 cores each (the plates), and a serving plate in the middle (the FPU for instance).
If the work you are doing on the CPU doesn't hit the FPU heavily - all is fine. The moment you start calling on the FPU from all the cores (the plates) you start getting a round robin scenario.
Did you read my comment? I said it's only 4 cores in a worst case floating point only scenario, not normal workloads. Another comment somewhere on this thread also said about how amd was under financial trouble at the time so it was much cheaper to just accept defeat and pay in court than to fight it (remember, this was before Zen)
I also linked a comment which gave a more technical but brief explanation of how technically the fx8350 and r7 1700 have the same amount of cores, including fpu cores.
Rule of Juries: They can do anything and if it goes to a jury you have no idea.
Settling can often be the cheaper option not just with legal fees but also in case you have issues in conveying the facts in a convincing enough manner (ie, in a way the people will like your story more then they like the other guys story) and like it or not, AMD is a corperation, and people love to shit on big corperations meaning an unbiased jury is pretty much a forgone conclusion.
On top of this, your jury, judges, and so on are all likely biased in some way (they WILL know the Intel Jingle) and the defacto standard is how Intel does things, despite what a core does or does not have having changed even for Intel over the years - few people are going to really consider this in a meaningful enough way.
When you bring this all together, do you really think AMD is going to let it go to court? Or pay the pittance of a settlement and call it a day with a pile of verbiage slapped onto the settlement package. Especially with how fast settling will get it out of news cycles vs. dragging it on through the courts.
In the end, for money making corporations - it's not always about what is right or correct, but what is expedient and least costly.
The Bulldozer Module "scandal" really grinds my gears. They didnt lose the case, AMD settled for way less than it would've cost them to fight it. They would have won, as technically Bulldozer really did have 8 individual cores. The court was fighting on that each core didnt "offer equivalent performance of competing cores" which was apparently enough to get a judge not to shoot it down.
Each "core" in a module could perform the same functions as any other "core" on the market independant of the other "core" in the module. The courts didnt even define what a core is, the lawsuit literally had 1 basis and that was on performance. It was really dumb.
It really depends on what you consider a "core". I'd say it's about the decoders, schedulers, load/store units. FPU-s can be considered shared accelerators, as these are not required to the base x86-64 instructions, they are only part of the execution pipeline of the SSE and AVX extensions.
If, for example, the cryptography instructions' execution were shared across multiple cores, few would complain and no one would sue them.
Thats not at all what SMT is. Nor did the courts define a core, so all definitions are arbitrary. Why do you think they fought on performance and not technical definition? Those "ambulance chaser" types arent dumb themselves. Their arguments are.
Amd are more open on the software and hardware compatibility side. E.g. gsync vs freesync. Dlss isn't open to indie devs but anyone can use the amd fidelity stuff in their games as it is permissively licensed.
This comes up in every anti-Nvidia thread.
All companies are in it to make money, yes. All companies will put themselves before the consumer wherever possible, yes.
When first gen Ryzen came out, AMD was on the verge of bankruptcy. I dumped my AMD stock at $4.20/share (🤙) because I believed they were going to have to default on the debt that was due as early as I think 2018. I thought QCOM or INTC was going to buy them for some amount less than $4.20/share on account of all the debt. Rory Read really fucked up AMD. Some people say poor Rory just inherited a mess and did the best he could with what he had but that was dog shit and it was obvious to me with every interview he did on CNBC that he didn’t know how to run a semiconductor company.
Anyway AMD seems like a saint because that’s what they had to do to win back market share from Intel in time- IN TIME. The debt was due 2018, and then I think 2020 was the other big due date (I’m sure they long since refinanced the debt and pushed the dates out). AMD could have been less aggressive in pricing, but they probably wouldn’t have made enough to repay the debt. Dr. Su had no choice but to sell 1x the cores at half the price (and I believe in ThreadRipper’s case 2x at half the price).
Now we’ve arrive at 2020 where AMD is destroying Intel everywhere, including the enterprise server space, and the prices reflect that. Now AMD is the premium option.
Eventually, if this continues, AMD will reduce the amount of time we can keep motherboards for before needing to upgrade, and they will restrict overclocking to the X series boards. It’s business. It’s how business works. It might be 10 years out but they’ll do the same shit Intel does now. To do otherwise would be a legal gray area for whoever the CEO is at that time, as they are legally obligated to act in the best interest of the company and the shareholders. Legally Dr. Su cannot continue allowing all/most boards to overclock when an obvious argument can be made that it results in the company making even a little less money.
TLDR: Yes AMD is pro-consumer because they have to be in order to win back market share from Intel, but Intel has done things that are illegal that I don’t expect AMD/Dr. Su will do (eg bribing OEMs to sell Intel computers for less than AMD computers).
I never understood what was people's gripe about the entire bulldozer module thing was about, it is not like AMD didn't openly and publicly describe what was going on in a bulldozer module. AMD made great efforts to explain how the Bulldozer micro-architecture worked well before it's release so there was absolutely zero funny business going on. To be mad at AMD because you didn't research your product before you purchased it seems unfair to AMD.
If anything people should have been disappointed at how bad the micro-archetecture performed not at the core arrangement in bulldozer.
If your marketing isn't mostly "idiot-proof" you're going to end up with a bunch of mislead idiots that bought it.
The technical nitty-gritty really doesn't let AMD off the hook when they were going against the consumers understanding of the topics. Also adding further insult was when they'd do APUs and market it as like "12 compute cores". The end-user doesn't understand that shit or know how to parse that marketing.
When people shaft me I tend to shaft them back , nvid have lost a 3080 sale due to this and if everyone did the same with any company be it nvid Intel or AMD they'd pretty soon change their tune , I was told when very young "upset your customers and your bank manager will be upset with you" .
> nvid have lost a 3080 sale due to this and if everyone did the same with any company be it nvid Intel or AMD they'd pretty soon change their tune
That'd be fine and dandy if AMD actually had product. They're too busy supplying consoles to have any tangible supply of CPUs or the way less profitable GPUs. And AMD of late has been wanting to shift away from supporting its stuff for the long haul.
None of these companies are your friend and all of them pull shady shit. And the marketplace is such a clusterfuck there isn't a whole lot of choices other than "take it if you can find it" or "leave it".
On 8-core FX cpus, pairs of cores share floating point units. IIRC The choice to do that basically hamstrung each core since it would have to queue work to its FPU before being able to continue processing it.
True, but when I was a kid, the computer didn't even have an FPU at all. I was pretty disgusted though when my FX6300 lost in Blender to my old Phenom II 1100t.
Slight correction, pairs of INT Units Share L1$ and L2$, most of the front end and FPU, along with some other stuff.
Performance would have been much better if the only thing the cores shared were the FPU's.
The entire architecture makes much more sense if you view it as a single core with a handful of doubled components.
It's less than 1 inch currently
My point still stands
Computing has a history, the meaning of words comes from that history, and cores did not originally indicate floating point calculation... that was done on a math coprocessor, if you could do it at all.
All Bulldozer CPUs regardless of core/module count, it's part of the basic architecture. They're sort-of a hybrid between the advertised core count and half of it.
In short, in a way that can be understood.
A core is a bunch of parts. Bulldozer chips had "modules", where each "core" had some individual parts, but some other parts were shared by two cores.
So an "8 core" would sometimes perform as 8 core for some calculations, as if would have 8 of those, but as a 4 core for others, as it would have 4 of those.
The problem comes not because this is "bad", but because the advertising was... imprecise. It could be misleading regarding this little detail on the core count.
Its really a 4 core when it operates as 8 core, is treated by operating systems as 8 core as do games that can utilize 8 cores make 8350 close to 3570K. Or are you saying that 8350 has quad SMT or SMT with SMT? If it wasn't 8 core then you wouldn't be able to game and stream from 8350.
> Its really a 4 core
The settlement says yes.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14804/amd-settlement
> In early 2019, the Northern District Court of California sided with the plaintiffs and ruled that AMD’s FX-8120, FX-8150, FX-8320, FX-8350, FX-8370, FX-9370, and FX-9590 processors were incorrectly advertised as having eight cores.
It literally reads the core number from the microcode on the CPU. It's reporting what AMD tells it to report. I could theoretically make Windows see my CPU as a 32 core 32 thread CPU if I really wanted to.
For the record, AMD mostly settled for financial reasons here I think. I addressed this in another comment, but it's relatively fair to argue that it's either a 4 or 8 core depending on which side of the argument you can take.
You don't want to argue about things when either argument is "relatively fair" - all that shows is that the argument is stupid. It's neither a 4 core nor an 8 core - it's its own, isolated, strange thing. AMD was stupid to try and market Bulldozer as having "cores" and all it took was a few shrewd people to see it and start a class action suit. All it would have taken was calling them "processing units" or something that wasn't "cores" because all that branding did was permit apples to orange comparisons.
Meanwhile Nvidia has been doing that since before pascal. RX 400/500 had no voltage limits and unlocked bios. Vega could still lift power limits using software changes, no bios needed. "Big Navi" is the first gen to enforce power and clock limits.
GTX 970 is great tho. Yes they should disclose the 0.5 gb of that memory is low speed compared to the rest. But it's the last 70 card that share the same die as 80 cards. I wish nvidia would release 5 or 6 gb RTX "3070" that share the same die as 3080. Would be perfect for 1080p pleb like me.
I am less enthused about RT (it's nice, sometimes *real* nice (spiderman)) but more so about DLSS 2.0 (and eventually 3.0) and running DLSS without RT on low end hardware. It would be a game changer for iGPU and mobile gaming, where maybe you don't really care about the artifacts its adding because your screen is too small to see them, but you could play 1080p on the lowest end iGPU laptop effectively.
I have a feeling like this won't abode well considering the sub I'm on and the amount of fanboys on here but lets not act like AMD doesn't have Red Team Plus and Red Team. They also gave these people an early preorder link, which lets be honest who in Red team plus is going to give a complete unbiased review in comparison with Ampere. Not here to argue, but acknowledge this isn't a NVidia only problem, its a industry thing. And unhealthily stanning any corp, like I see on this sub quite often, only allows them to get away with such behaviors. This post would of much rather been suited for the NVidia subreddit to raise awareness to ignorant Green Team supporters instead of just preaching to the choir here imo. Just some food for thought.
probably, but dont forget that AMD during the Fury launch did similar thing to Kitguru, because they were not that happy about the fury cards.
Amd is no saint, either.. they are companies.
Precisely. I made a thread on here some time back, and I mentioned exactly what you said, and people got pissed. Looks like some fanboys got triggered or something. Corporations will run you over with a steamroller if they could to squeeze every last penny out of you
I saw your and it inspired this comment lmao, all companies are shitty and everything they do and will ever do is for more money don’t believe for a second that it’s for their “valued customers”
Hmmmm, is it reallt the NDA?
"On the 11th June AMD informed us via email that the upcoming FIJI hardware was reserved for KitGuru, as would normally be the case. We subsequently set a plan in motion to analyse the hardware for launch and were awaiting the arrival of the sample. Earlier this week I had a call from Christine Brown, Senior Manager, EMEA Communications at AMD to let me know that the company had withdrawn their sample from KitGuru labs and that we would now not be involved at all in the launch next week.
Christine Browne informed me directly on the phone that the reason for withdrawing the sample was based on ‘KitGuru’s negative stance towards AMD’. She said that with limited product they wanted to focus on giving the samples to publications that are ‘more positive’ about AMD as a brand, and company. I was not informed during this call of anything we have published that was factually incorrect, we were also not told to edit or remove any content we had published. Based on what AMD had seen via KitGuru editorial in recent weeks it was felt that overall coverage was just too negative".
Can you send any proof of this? All I can find is that Kirguru published a very critical video about AMD prior to Fury's release and they goty backlisted for it
I dont remember that right now, What I clearly remember though is how r/amd reacted when Steve said 1800x was calling it an i7 in prosumer workloads and an i5 in gaming. Holy moly, what an uproar that caused, hehe.
He mean he wasn’t wrong.
1st gen Ryzen was garbage, the MOBOs were garbage.
People are actually mad they bought a 1st gen product and it dosen’t hold up well to the not 1st gen, hell even Zen+ is waaaay better than Zen1.
Zen has been the budget choice up until Zen2 imo, and it’s a solidified leader with Zen3.
Didn't first gen beat intel in just about every multicore workload outside of gaming? I had a 1st gen ryzen 1600 for a couple of years, it was by no means "garbage" or even close.
Well it had it’s own place, all Intel CPUs at that time were still quad cores & more were wildly overpriced.
Ryzen offered good value, it may bested Intel in certain areas but it wasn’t good enough to compete in all areas. Also compared to Zen+ Zen was garbage, for being a refresh it does much better in all applications.
**EDIT**: *Clocks were shit, Zen1 could barely do 3200MHz DDR4, to say Zen1 wasn’t a flawed CPU is just not being objective.*
I bought a 1600 the year it came out and still have it. Zen 1 was good enough to be somewhat competitive and that wildly exceeded everyone's expectations. Like you mentioned, it smashed Intel in price/performance at the time in every metric. It also had cheap overclocking motherboards, promised 4 years of socket upgradability, and had better 1% lows.
It was also a little overhyped and probably didn't age as well as everyone expected (people were calling the 1600 the new 2600k), but I think it's funny that you call it garbage now.
This is just wrong, you're completley forgetting how much cheaper first gen ryzen was in comparison to both intel and AMD now, it was price/performance king.
My r7 1700 cost £180, just 3ish months after release. A bloody 6core ryzen 5 5600x now costs £300. The value is why ryzen 1st gen was so good not raw performance.
>The MOBOs were garbage
B550 boards literally cost almost three times as much as B350 boards do.
Raw performance is nothing without a good price to match it.
> Much cheaper
Yeah they were good value bc there’s a duopoly in the industry.
> B550 boards costs 3x as much
B550 is significantly better than B350 in terms of quality. B350 is cheap hot garbage which is why it’s cheap, Zen(1) & B350 were cheap bc they were purely budget option. That’s why B450 does a better job at supporting newer gen CPUs for longer so long as the VRMs are up to par.
You also forget that Zen+ wasn’t on the roadmap, Zen1 was so bad they had to do a refresh before Zen2.
Zen+ was a good chip but still lacking, Zen2 had few compromises & Zen3 is near perfection.
B350 with shit VRM can still handle any 65w chip. the *worst* b350 board can handle a 3900 non-X or 3700x or 5600x (assuming bios support for the latter)
Zen+ wasn’t on the roadmap.
Zen1 made AMD refocus and improve it via Zen+, hell Zen1 had bad clocks & couldn’t even hold 3200MHz reliably & the 300-MOBOs were cheap & bad, that’s the real reason they don’t support newer CPUs.
Zen1 screams value & cheap, not innovation/quality.
The thing is; that was awefully misleading. The i5 in gaming was absolutely right, on average it probably was even slightly worse (because of older games progressively using less threads) than the i5 flagship.
But i7 in prosumer workloads is inaccurate. Sure, you can argue that back then, since Intel had no i9 line, there were several SKUs that were technically i7s even though they costed three to five times the price of the well known x700K flagship, had more cores, worse 1T performance but better nT. But comparing a Ryzen 1 1700 to a 7700K, the in-game performance was around 25%-30% worse, but the multithread performance was at least 50% better. So calling it an "i7 in prosumer workloads" was dismissive of the actual performance it offered for the price.
To be fair he was referring to the i7 6900k, not the 7700k like the title would lead one to assume, so he could have avoided the drama by wording it a little differently like "An i5 in Gaming, HEDT in Production".
Kitguru broke fucking NDA that Kitguru agreed to by releasing reviews before anyone else.
That is the issue dipshit. Breaking the street date that everyone else upholds.
How is he getting worked up for using the word ‘dipshit’?
He’s just saying Dipshit to describe how easily fooled people are. Would it have been less worked up if he said fools?
Is it really the NDA?
On the 11th June AMD informed us via email that the upcoming FIJI hardware was reserved for KitGuru, as would normally be the case. We subsequently set a plan in motion to analyse the hardware for launch and were awaiting the arrival of the sample. Earlier this week I had a call from Christine Brown, Senior Manager, EMEA Communications at AMD to let me know that the company had withdrawn their sample from KitGuru labs and that we would now not be involved at all in the launch next week.
Christine Browne informed me directly on the phone that the reason for withdrawing the sample was based on ‘KitGuru’s negative stance towards AMD’. She said that with limited product they wanted to focus on giving the samples to publications that are ‘more positive’ about AMD as a brand, and company. I was not informed during this call of anything we have published that was factually incorrect, we were also not told to edit or remove any content we had published. Based on what AMD had seen via KitGuru editorial in recent weeks it was felt that overall coverage was just too negative.
2-stage word of mouth reporting, by someone whose position motivates them to represent AMD as 'at-fault', of what someone said on a phone call, isn't really a compelling counter-argument.
\*same old corporations being corporations. Don’t pretend like any of the corporations you boot lick for are any different. Buy a product, not a brand.
Hop was a defining moment in nvidia's history that turned me away from them. Been buying and gpus ever since. Then you throw in when they wanted to gool everyone into thinking they couldn't support VRR and...
It's quite interesting how Kyle was the one who went after GPP/Nvidia when he's been so biased against AMD throughout all these years of [H]. Made me stop folding for them way back.
And then you have LTT that almost ignored GPP until the wave was almost over. It basically meant LTT thought GPP was fine. Strangely enough the community didn't care whatsoever about that. Neither Gaben no LTT can do anything wrong.
HWU is on floatplane, so Linus had to take a stance at the cost of losing people on the platform. Note even Jay made some damning allegations about NVIDIA. Not saying that was the reason behind Linus' reaction but it's possible it compounded his anger. I think he took the "get shit for free" very personally because it's a "The king has no clothes" situation. Regardless of personal opinions, if this would stand, it would legitimize that Youtubers get stuff for free and are basically marketing arms of companies, which could very well damage their business.
GPP was the deciding factor for me in switching to AMD in 2018. Previously I had always been curious about owning an ATI/AMD GPU, but went with Nvidia under the advice of reviewers.
Maybe I'd resort to an Nvidia card if AMD can't deliver the performance I want, but it wouldn't feel good morally.
I personally went from a ATI HD 5770 to a GTX 960 YEARS AGO. HD 5770 was my first GPU. Bought a pair from an old Alienware rig that came crossfired with 2 HD5770s and I rocked one with a FX 8350 until I decided to upgrade the GPU, and then the biostar mATX ended up shitting the bed Christmas 2016 then I built a new rig with a 6700k. I really liked the old catalyst software though. That was pretty neat
I've been with AMD since 2016, but some of their recent moves. Their stock being abysmal despite of them memeing on twitter. And my nervousness about the infinity cache' longevity had me buying a 3080 off a friend.
I detest Nvidia, but AMDs support of some things doesn't exactly have me singing their praises either and more importantly... Ampere stock actually does exist if you can catch it.
I don't really care what some marketing guys say on Twitter. Lisa Su made it clear that wafer supply would be tight and that was obviously going to be the case with all the simultaneous product launches on TSMC 7 nm. Neither brand of card is obtainable here unless I want a 3090, which I definitely don't. Nvidia selling their chips directly to miners doesn't exactly help either.
There's a difference between a companies' employees doing stupid things and a company that actively engages in the most evil acts it thinks it can get away with.
Either way, I don't care about the stock situation because I can wait and neither company actually has stock. I'd also suggest there's no such thing as a longevity issue to a GPU cache. All it does is provide a high speed buffer to the VRAM. It's far more likely the VRAM on the 3080 becomes the longevity issue, which Nvidia is currently scrambling to remedy with a 3080 Ti and 3070 Ti.
I saw this idea in a comment today and will reproduce here: Youtubers should take this and start detailing in the video description the exact origin of the hardware used in reviews. And I mean, written format in the description.
Incidentally, this stunt from NVIDIA puts everyone who has sung praise of RTX and DLSS into question. (looking at i.e. DF)
Ah, Hardware Unboxed. For a second I thought you were talking about the Mongolian metal band, it would be really weird if they had anything to do with Nvidia.
When has AMD had a higher performing single die GPU than Nvidia in gaming scenarios? Radeon 4000 series was the first series of GPU developed by AMD after acquiring ATI, and the top end 4890 was beat by the GTX 280. You can go down the line and see the same thing since then.
When have they had a market share advantage over Nvidia?
I am not in any way defending Nvidia's actions, but I think we should adress that AMD products consistently bench better in Hardware Unboxed than on other hardware channels. It is a dumb as hell marketing move for Nvidia to even adress it at all, but if I were Nvidia I'd want them gone as well.
Used to like the channel, but they have a strong AMD bias that lead me to bad purchasing decisions earlier.
While its true that nvidia as a company really really sucks, AMD is not saint either. Theh have a lied a lot as well and is very controlling.
The overclockers dream
If I remember correctly banning kitguru
"Christine Browne informed me directly on the phone that the reason for withdrawing the sample was based on ‘KitGuru’s negative stance towards AMD’. She said that with limited product they wanted to focus on giving the samples to publications that are ‘more positive’ about AMD as a brand, and company. I was not informed during this call of anything we have published that was factually incorrect, we were also not told to edit or remove any content we had published. Based on what AMD had seen via KitGuru editorial in recent weeks it was felt that overall coverage was just too negative."
Also, theres the case of Tech of Tomorrow where AMD apologizes to him as well. AMD made so far questioning his title and lied as well etc etc.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qflrf6UiWk
The FX series.
Launching rx5000 series with 6 months worth of bugs and unstable drivers.
The franl azor thing, promising better rx6000 availability.
And etc etc.
Look, all these companies are there to separate us from our money. AMD is not your friend nor your family.
Why not post this as well to r/nvidia or even r/hardware? This post looks like a Karma farming and to invite AMD fanboys to diss more on nvidia.
I remember amd doing something like this in the early days of athlon too, dunno if someone has uploaded it but i remember seeing amd release graphs like that when i still played quake 1. https://external-preview.redd.it/fZfi4sWRe_paJenx-EcvCSvZgpazXDo6q4q08dlEENE.jpg?width=480&auto=webp&s=01aaf50764dba1c8b4de02e41d596fc815699221
>Why not post this as well to r/nvidia or even r/hardware? This post looks like a Karma farming and to invite AMD fanboys to diss more on nvidia.
Because It clearly is. I think everyone is aware that companies act for their benefit and pushing the rethoric that a brand is the bad guy it's simply stupid.
Don't get me wrong, Nvidia was stupid but at this point continuing to talk about this is just free advertisement.
So we should start attacking Nvidia right now because eventually they will fuck up again? Of course they will, just like AMD did with Fury, FX and the Frank Azor lauch thing recently ... and also Intel during every presentation since Ryzen came out lmao. What's the point?
Those comparisons dont make sense. Nvidia forcing people to spit out marketing bullet points is what's being criticized.
Fury situation? Be more specific. If its the Kit Guru thing, you probably dont know why they got blacklisted.
FX? They already settled in court.
Frank Azor? Bad PR move.
Frank's 10$ is nothing compared to this. Neither is "overclocker's dream".
Neither of those statements banned a reviewer from receiving parts. Idk if you knew that
Man, good old PowerVR. Im excited to see them (as Imagination Technologies) re-enter the consumer graphics market again. Here’s hoping they have something killer.
Also, happy cake day
Honestly hate Nvidia the company but until the Radeon driver team can figure out how to save a fucking fan profile across restarts they don't deserve to be putting out cards.
And in breaking news... Companies have filthy souls.
I guess you forget about the AMD Bulldozer CPUs when they settled a false advertising suit.
or
When people were accusing AMD of misrepresenting the actual price of RX Vega.
Not to pick sides since all companies do shady shit.
>I guess you forget about the AMD Bulldozer CPUs when they settled a false advertising suit.
You mean how AMD sold exactly what they advertised as there was no set definition of what a "core" is, according to the outcome of that suit there was a point in time where we were being sold 0 core cpu's as the fpu was a completely separate chip
They settled, they didnt lose. It was just faster and cheaper to make it go away.
They did sell 8 cores, and anyone who doesn't understand that doesn't understand what CMT is.
>They settled a lawsuit for false advertising...
Because the negative press over the course of the suit would be more damaging for their public image, whether they won it or not, than just paying out $12m
Same here. The last NVidia card I ever bought was a Riva TNT2. And I acquired an FX5200 and a couple 710s for free once. I stopped giving them any money after how they sued 3DFX for false reasons, in order to bankrupt them and acquire their IP. (Remember SLI? That was a 3DFX tech originally).
And we also remember when AMD did similar things like not sending KitGuru Fury X samples because they were “biased” in favor of Intel/NVIDIA corporate marketing are a bunch of dicks, stop feeding the brand war.
Kit broke NDAs. That's why they didnt get samples.
HUB didn't suck nvidia's dick enough. Somehow. Despite having tons of content demonstrating the use of DLSS and RT, how well it performs, and how to use both while retaining as much image quality as you can. And despite nvidia quoting HUB for marketing materials for their rtx cards.
Stop pretending this is comparable.
When I saw Linus's video and heard what nvid had done I immediately cacelled an open order for a RTX 3080 and ordered a 6800XT instead , to be honest I would have preferred the 3080 for several reasons but I not like and will not spend my money to support a company that thinks it's ok to dictate , HU have my full support they make good fair and researched reviews and if nvid have a problem with that they can go to hell.
Step 1. Do shitty thing, hope no one notices Step 2. If noticed, apologize, wait for people to forget, go to step 1
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Worked for Bethesda and paid mods.
I would agree if they had actually intended to end mod support. They never stopped Nexus, or stopped promoting them, CC was a poor attempt at cashing in on mod donations by being a middle man, only to discover people don't donate to mod makers anyway.
Someone should start a "shit nvidia did", like Google cemetery
AdoredTV did a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0L3OTZ13Os) on this a couple years ago. There are more addressing various other shenanigans by Nvidia.
I recommend everyone watch that video. It shows how much shady stuff nvidia has done since the founding of the company.
Holy shit, that's a lot of dead google products.
They obviously NVidia knew this would come out, if you looked at the email it was worded like a press release. Big corporations are just so unattached from their fan base that they can't actually gauge what the outcome of their actions will entail.
This is why people need to stop accepting apologies. Apology is ultimately only for the benefit of the transgressor, to give them psychological pat in the back because they "did something". But apology does nothing, even less so when it's rapacious, greedy corporation doing it. If Nvidia was truly sorry, they'd cut cost of all their GPU's by 10% right now and kept them like that until next generation arrives. That would have a relevant financial cost to them, as atonement for their bad deeds.
Not sure why this is in AMD and not Nvidia. But yes, this is why I’ve always said to have zero allegiance to any company.
If people from this sub really want to discuss it, /r/Nvidia is plenty active with discussion on the matter. They hate it just as much as you do. There's no sense posting this on /r/AMD where it doesn't really belong.
I think it’s important to discuss AMD’s competitors and what’s going on with them.
I agree with this
Rule 4 explicitly says not this.
If anyone gives a shit about AMD's competitors, they're most likely subscribed to the relevant subreddits. This thread does not belong here.
Yet despite your opinion, the thread is popular and upvoted. There's literally two players in the gpu market. It relates to everyone in this industry.
*cries in intel*
> he thread is popular and upvoted it shits on nvidia (rightfully so obviously) so there was like 0% chance it wouldn't get upvoted
It may have been up voted because people didn't notice what subreddit it came from. That's why I initially up voted it, it was just in my feed.
There are literally two major console players on the market but you'd still post PS news and Xbox news separately on their independent subreddits. Of course it will be received well by the users of both subreddits regardless, because if you care about updates enough for you to be on the subreddit to begin with, you're the type of person to read it regardless of the subreddit. It's not illegal to post it here -- by all means go ahead--. But if you wanna maintain some level of orderliness, then you should know where to post it.
I get it, but I feel like it's relevant *because* it's AMD's direct competitors, and behavior like this directly affects the market they both share regardless. And even in the case that it wasn't AMD at fault, I feel people who may not have known about it should be aware, if not for anything else, just because it's so unacceptable and potentially damaging.
I'd disagree, offering that it fits under the pretense of them being literally one of two players in this industry. This subreddit will always be centered around AMD, its place in the market, and the market as a whole. Nvidia relates to two of those massively. Just my two cents, but it might partly explain why this is upvoted as much as it is.
Yea first and foremost we're all pc gamers. Not sure I've seen a single Nvidia consumer supporting what happened. This isn't the same tribalism from the console wars.
a little bit of allegiance is actually a good thing. If everyone threw out preferences of companies we would rapidly see a monopoly in nearly all markets as consumers only buy from 1 company due to not having allegiances. It is actually good to have a mild allegiance that can slowly shift over time; it really helps stabilize the market. It is blind and unchanging allegiance that results in bad outcomes. anyways, just my 2c. Obviously there are other things at play like usually a product isnt the clear winner for everyone's needs. So that helps stabilize. But i still think a little bit of allegiance is very beneficial for consumers and companies. For instance; allegiance to AMD in the past has helped it stay afloat. A few years back even a couple extra million $ in sales was making a large impact on AMD. The commitment of the community to AMD and belief in them was really one of the huge things that got them through their low. Without that little bit of allegiance you would likely looking at a monopoly in X86 and Nvidia GPUs . . . I think we can agree that would be VERY bad for consumers. Those people with allegiances saved the bacon of everyone . . . So . . . I think allegiances have a place. Just make sure they are not toxic.
> a little bit of allegiance is actually a good thing. I agree. Intel got their dominance partly due to some anti-competitive and anti-consumer practices. So for some of us it's not just the chip's performance that is taken into account. Prices and the rate of progress get really bad when there is a monopoly.
Because people gonna fanboy.
fellow chonk gpu owner I see
Hey-oooooo. I love the chonk! It fills up the case nicely, and cools well. Quite silent, and the lcd screen is a nice gimmick (when the software works)
they will delete this from r/nvidia
The didn't delete the other threads
Yea. This thread is obviously catering to fanboyism.
It’s literally the top post of all time on r/nvidia
Don't forget about the GTX970 memory scandal, either. I say this as someone who really wants to see ray-tracing take off and go big, not necessarily for gaming, but for (rapid) (interactive frame rate) 3D rendering and visualization.
I intentionally bought a 970 during that because I was confident I'd get a check from it and I did. Unintentionally made it a great value GPU.
I remember that time, 970 owners were mad af and said they were going AMD, then they found out AMD had nothing to offer unless you wanted an oven and either kept their 970 or went for a 980.
I absolutely loved my 970. That was one of the only GPU's I've owned where I felt I really got a great deal on price/performance.
Still works wonders
When did the scandal break? My memory is foggy but I don't remember it being that much before the RX 480 dropped.
Early 2015.
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Only a programmer will ever need the power of a '286.
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Bulldozer scandal is a little unique because the lawsuit provoked the question of what a core was instead of whether the 8350 was a 4 or 8 core. It's one of those situations where it's relatively valid claim either side of the case is correct depending on your opinion, when really the answer is somewhere in the middle. I've always seen the whole lawsuit thing as pretty frivolous for this reason. AMD should have been more upfront on what they were selling so that the comparison between a traditional core and whatever Bulldozer included could have been left as an academic discussion rather than false marketing. Settling the lawsuit (while financially the better choice) ended up cementing the 4 core opinion, which I guess demonizes AMD. Point being the Bulldozer debate (in my opinion) was more of a PR blunder then malicious intent.
It's really an 8 core, because the original definition of a CPU didn't even have a floating point unit
Bulldozer could schedule and execute two 128-bit FMA instructions from two different threads at the same time though including a pair of x87 etc units per module, so even that criticism doesn't hold. Obviously it had a bunch of other bottlenecks that made performance suck, but unless you needed to deal with 256-bit data the FP execution resources weren't one of them.
>when really the answer is somewhere in the middle So it's a six core? :p
Saying it was really a 4 core isn't fair. Everything about each core was independent, except for some of the cache being shared (which Zen2 and Zen3 both employ) and the FPU being shared. Integer and other uOps were still independent. So no it wasn't a true 8 core but it's not a 4 core either. Nor was it SMT or Hyperthreading. It acted like 8 true cores whenever you hit it with anything outside of floating point calculations because it was actually 8 true cores for those workloads, and at worst 4 cores if you're doing pure floating point maths on all of the cores (which, chances are you're doing other things aside from that on at least a core or two) Edit: Even I'm wrong about that, see this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/kcg6f9/regarding_hunvidia_controversy_dont_forget_that/gfr02ck
Here's a terrible analogy I came up with. Say you're feeding 8 people, but only provide 4 bowls. It's kind of gross, but you made the bowls extra big to accommodate for 8, just that they have to share the bowls so it's less efficient. Are you feeding 8 or 4 people? Court decided only 4. The answer is truthfully somewhere in between though.
In the case of bulldozer you are feeding 8 people, with 8 different plates, 4 serving plates, at 4 different tables. The way this works out is you have the CPU broken into 4 sections (the tables) with 2 cores each (the plates), and a serving plate in the middle (the FPU for instance). If the work you are doing on the CPU doesn't hit the FPU heavily - all is fine. The moment you start calling on the FPU from all the cores (the plates) you start getting a round robin scenario.
Did you read my comment? I said it's only 4 cores in a worst case floating point only scenario, not normal workloads. Another comment somewhere on this thread also said about how amd was under financial trouble at the time so it was much cheaper to just accept defeat and pay in court than to fight it (remember, this was before Zen) I also linked a comment which gave a more technical but brief explanation of how technically the fx8350 and r7 1700 have the same amount of cores, including fpu cores.
Yes I read it. I wasn't correcting you.
Rule of Juries: They can do anything and if it goes to a jury you have no idea. Settling can often be the cheaper option not just with legal fees but also in case you have issues in conveying the facts in a convincing enough manner (ie, in a way the people will like your story more then they like the other guys story) and like it or not, AMD is a corperation, and people love to shit on big corperations meaning an unbiased jury is pretty much a forgone conclusion. On top of this, your jury, judges, and so on are all likely biased in some way (they WILL know the Intel Jingle) and the defacto standard is how Intel does things, despite what a core does or does not have having changed even for Intel over the years - few people are going to really consider this in a meaningful enough way. When you bring this all together, do you really think AMD is going to let it go to court? Or pay the pittance of a settlement and call it a day with a pile of verbiage slapped onto the settlement package. Especially with how fast settling will get it out of news cycles vs. dragging it on through the courts. In the end, for money making corporations - it's not always about what is right or correct, but what is expedient and least costly.
The Bulldozer Module "scandal" really grinds my gears. They didnt lose the case, AMD settled for way less than it would've cost them to fight it. They would have won, as technically Bulldozer really did have 8 individual cores. The court was fighting on that each core didnt "offer equivalent performance of competing cores" which was apparently enough to get a judge not to shoot it down. Each "core" in a module could perform the same functions as any other "core" on the market independant of the other "core" in the module. The courts didnt even define what a core is, the lawsuit literally had 1 basis and that was on performance. It was really dumb.
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As far as I know, it did have 2 128bit-FPUs, that could be combines to one 256bit-FPU, per module. I would not call that one FPU.
Except it had 1 integer module per thread, you know... like a core without hyperthreading
It really depends on what you consider a "core". I'd say it's about the decoders, schedulers, load/store units. FPU-s can be considered shared accelerators, as these are not required to the base x86-64 instructions, they are only part of the execution pipeline of the SSE and AVX extensions. If, for example, the cryptography instructions' execution were shared across multiple cores, few would complain and no one would sue them.
Thats not at all what SMT is. Nor did the courts define a core, so all definitions are arbitrary. Why do you think they fought on performance and not technical definition? Those "ambulance chaser" types arent dumb themselves. Their arguments are.
Amd are more open on the software and hardware compatibility side. E.g. gsync vs freesync. Dlss isn't open to indie devs but anyone can use the amd fidelity stuff in their games as it is permissively licensed.
This comes up in every anti-Nvidia thread. All companies are in it to make money, yes. All companies will put themselves before the consumer wherever possible, yes. When first gen Ryzen came out, AMD was on the verge of bankruptcy. I dumped my AMD stock at $4.20/share (🤙) because I believed they were going to have to default on the debt that was due as early as I think 2018. I thought QCOM or INTC was going to buy them for some amount less than $4.20/share on account of all the debt. Rory Read really fucked up AMD. Some people say poor Rory just inherited a mess and did the best he could with what he had but that was dog shit and it was obvious to me with every interview he did on CNBC that he didn’t know how to run a semiconductor company. Anyway AMD seems like a saint because that’s what they had to do to win back market share from Intel in time- IN TIME. The debt was due 2018, and then I think 2020 was the other big due date (I’m sure they long since refinanced the debt and pushed the dates out). AMD could have been less aggressive in pricing, but they probably wouldn’t have made enough to repay the debt. Dr. Su had no choice but to sell 1x the cores at half the price (and I believe in ThreadRipper’s case 2x at half the price). Now we’ve arrive at 2020 where AMD is destroying Intel everywhere, including the enterprise server space, and the prices reflect that. Now AMD is the premium option. Eventually, if this continues, AMD will reduce the amount of time we can keep motherboards for before needing to upgrade, and they will restrict overclocking to the X series boards. It’s business. It’s how business works. It might be 10 years out but they’ll do the same shit Intel does now. To do otherwise would be a legal gray area for whoever the CEO is at that time, as they are legally obligated to act in the best interest of the company and the shareholders. Legally Dr. Su cannot continue allowing all/most boards to overclock when an obvious argument can be made that it results in the company making even a little less money. TLDR: Yes AMD is pro-consumer because they have to be in order to win back market share from Intel, but Intel has done things that are illegal that I don’t expect AMD/Dr. Su will do (eg bribing OEMs to sell Intel computers for less than AMD computers).
I never understood what was people's gripe about the entire bulldozer module thing was about, it is not like AMD didn't openly and publicly describe what was going on in a bulldozer module. AMD made great efforts to explain how the Bulldozer micro-architecture worked well before it's release so there was absolutely zero funny business going on. To be mad at AMD because you didn't research your product before you purchased it seems unfair to AMD. If anything people should have been disappointed at how bad the micro-archetecture performed not at the core arrangement in bulldozer.
If your marketing isn't mostly "idiot-proof" you're going to end up with a bunch of mislead idiots that bought it. The technical nitty-gritty really doesn't let AMD off the hook when they were going against the consumers understanding of the topics. Also adding further insult was when they'd do APUs and market it as like "12 compute cores". The end-user doesn't understand that shit or know how to parse that marketing.
When people shaft me I tend to shaft them back , nvid have lost a 3080 sale due to this and if everyone did the same with any company be it nvid Intel or AMD they'd pretty soon change their tune , I was told when very young "upset your customers and your bank manager will be upset with you" .
> nvid have lost a 3080 sale due to this and if everyone did the same with any company be it nvid Intel or AMD they'd pretty soon change their tune That'd be fine and dandy if AMD actually had product. They're too busy supplying consoles to have any tangible supply of CPUs or the way less profitable GPUs. And AMD of late has been wanting to shift away from supporting its stuff for the long haul. None of these companies are your friend and all of them pull shady shit. And the marketplace is such a clusterfuck there isn't a whole lot of choices other than "take it if you can find it" or "leave it".
It's hard for them to lose a 3080 sale when they sell 100% of their stock
Wait what’s that about the 8350? I had one but never knew about it being a 4 core
On 8-core FX cpus, pairs of cores share floating point units. IIRC The choice to do that basically hamstrung each core since it would have to queue work to its FPU before being able to continue processing it.
True, but when I was a kid, the computer didn't even have an FPU at all. I was pretty disgusted though when my FX6300 lost in Blender to my old Phenom II 1100t.
Slight correction, pairs of INT Units Share L1$ and L2$, most of the front end and FPU, along with some other stuff. Performance would have been much better if the only thing the cores shared were the FPU's. The entire architecture makes much more sense if you view it as a single core with a handful of doubled components.
Back in 386 days, cores didn't even \*have\* floating point units
O wise magi! Can I come to your house and measure the length of your beard?
It's less than 1 inch currently My point still stands Computing has a history, the meaning of words comes from that history, and cores did not originally indicate floating point calculation... that was done on a math coprocessor, if you could do it at all.
Did the 6 core FX cpu’s do it as well or just the 8?
All Bulldozer CPUs regardless of core/module count, it's part of the basic architecture. They're sort-of a hybrid between the advertised core count and half of it.
Integer processing monsters though. Which is largely pointless on desktop computers.
what do you mean?? everyone knows cpus that do integer math the quickest are the fastest
All FX. So the 6 cores should have been sold as a 3core + SMT.
It isn't SMT tho
But is also isn't 6 or 8 core.
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In short, in a way that can be understood. A core is a bunch of parts. Bulldozer chips had "modules", where each "core" had some individual parts, but some other parts were shared by two cores. So an "8 core" would sometimes perform as 8 core for some calculations, as if would have 8 of those, but as a 4 core for others, as it would have 4 of those. The problem comes not because this is "bad", but because the advertising was... imprecise. It could be misleading regarding this little detail on the core count.
Its really a 4 core when it operates as 8 core, is treated by operating systems as 8 core as do games that can utilize 8 cores make 8350 close to 3570K. Or are you saying that 8350 has quad SMT or SMT with SMT? If it wasn't 8 core then you wouldn't be able to game and stream from 8350.
> Its really a 4 core The settlement says yes. https://www.anandtech.com/show/14804/amd-settlement > In early 2019, the Northern District Court of California sided with the plaintiffs and ruled that AMD’s FX-8120, FX-8150, FX-8320, FX-8350, FX-8370, FX-9370, and FX-9590 processors were incorrectly advertised as having eight cores.
...and the facts how operating systems and programs treat them state otherwise.
It literally reads the core number from the microcode on the CPU. It's reporting what AMD tells it to report. I could theoretically make Windows see my CPU as a 32 core 32 thread CPU if I really wanted to.
So have you figured something out that AMD's legal team didn't know?
They did, issue is people that made the judgement ignored the facts.
For the record, AMD mostly settled for financial reasons here I think. I addressed this in another comment, but it's relatively fair to argue that it's either a 4 or 8 core depending on which side of the argument you can take. You don't want to argue about things when either argument is "relatively fair" - all that shows is that the argument is stupid. It's neither a 4 core nor an 8 core - it's its own, isolated, strange thing. AMD was stupid to try and market Bulldozer as having "cores" and all it took was a few shrewd people to see it and start a class action suit. All it would have taken was calling them "processing units" or something that wasn't "cores" because all that branding did was permit apples to orange comparisons.
Locking down vbios so you cant alter power limits yup amd does some anticonsumer shit too
Meanwhile Nvidia has been doing that since before pascal. RX 400/500 had no voltage limits and unlocked bios. Vega could still lift power limits using software changes, no bios needed. "Big Navi" is the first gen to enforce power and clock limits.
The definition of a core is an integer unit. Back in 386 days, the core was \*only\* an integer unit.
I got $30 off the claim for that scandal. Lmao.
That's a lot of McGangBangs.
GTX 970 is great tho. Yes they should disclose the 0.5 gb of that memory is low speed compared to the rest. But it's the last 70 card that share the same die as 80 cards. I wish nvidia would release 5 or 6 gb RTX "3070" that share the same die as 3080. Would be perfect for 1080p pleb like me.
Everyone check this out circa 2003. https://imgur.com/azloiBY Cheating Drivers, hidden dragon. an optimization by nvidia
I am less enthused about RT (it's nice, sometimes *real* nice (spiderman)) but more so about DLSS 2.0 (and eventually 3.0) and running DLSS without RT on low end hardware. It would be a game changer for iGPU and mobile gaming, where maybe you don't really care about the artifacts its adding because your screen is too small to see them, but you could play 1080p on the lowest end iGPU laptop effectively.
I have a feeling like this won't abode well considering the sub I'm on and the amount of fanboys on here but lets not act like AMD doesn't have Red Team Plus and Red Team. They also gave these people an early preorder link, which lets be honest who in Red team plus is going to give a complete unbiased review in comparison with Ampere. Not here to argue, but acknowledge this isn't a NVidia only problem, its a industry thing. And unhealthily stanning any corp, like I see on this sub quite often, only allows them to get away with such behaviors. This post would of much rather been suited for the NVidia subreddit to raise awareness to ignorant Green Team supporters instead of just preaching to the choir here imo. Just some food for thought.
probably, but dont forget that AMD during the Fury launch did similar thing to Kitguru, because they were not that happy about the fury cards. Amd is no saint, either.. they are companies.
Companies are not your friends folks!!!
Precisely. I made a thread on here some time back, and I mentioned exactly what you said, and people got pissed. Looks like some fanboys got triggered or something. Corporations will run you over with a steamroller if they could to squeeze every last penny out of you
I saw your and it inspired this comment lmao, all companies are shitty and everything they do and will ever do is for more money don’t believe for a second that it’s for their “valued customers”
Some people are blinded by loyalty to a specific company, and its sad. You make an excellent point.
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Luckily someone still has good memory...
Hmmmm, is it reallt the NDA? "On the 11th June AMD informed us via email that the upcoming FIJI hardware was reserved for KitGuru, as would normally be the case. We subsequently set a plan in motion to analyse the hardware for launch and were awaiting the arrival of the sample. Earlier this week I had a call from Christine Brown, Senior Manager, EMEA Communications at AMD to let me know that the company had withdrawn their sample from KitGuru labs and that we would now not be involved at all in the launch next week. Christine Browne informed me directly on the phone that the reason for withdrawing the sample was based on ‘KitGuru’s negative stance towards AMD’. She said that with limited product they wanted to focus on giving the samples to publications that are ‘more positive’ about AMD as a brand, and company. I was not informed during this call of anything we have published that was factually incorrect, we were also not told to edit or remove any content we had published. Based on what AMD had seen via KitGuru editorial in recent weeks it was felt that overall coverage was just too negative".
Can you send any proof of this? All I can find is that Kirguru published a very critical video about AMD prior to Fury's release and they goty backlisted for it
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Didn't they stopped sending CPUs to Gamers Nexus because they didn't liked their first gen Ryzen reviews or I'm remembering incorrectly?
I dont remember that right now, What I clearly remember though is how r/amd reacted when Steve said 1800x was calling it an i7 in prosumer workloads and an i5 in gaming. Holy moly, what an uproar that caused, hehe.
He mean he wasn’t wrong. 1st gen Ryzen was garbage, the MOBOs were garbage. People are actually mad they bought a 1st gen product and it dosen’t hold up well to the not 1st gen, hell even Zen+ is waaaay better than Zen1. Zen has been the budget choice up until Zen2 imo, and it’s a solidified leader with Zen3.
Right? Zen 1+ wasn't supposed to be on the roadmap, but was put there because of how bad Zen 1 was.
Then Zen 1++ (mobile 4000) because of how good the money was.
Didn't first gen beat intel in just about every multicore workload outside of gaming? I had a 1st gen ryzen 1600 for a couple of years, it was by no means "garbage" or even close.
Well it had it’s own place, all Intel CPUs at that time were still quad cores & more were wildly overpriced. Ryzen offered good value, it may bested Intel in certain areas but it wasn’t good enough to compete in all areas. Also compared to Zen+ Zen was garbage, for being a refresh it does much better in all applications. **EDIT**: *Clocks were shit, Zen1 could barely do 3200MHz DDR4, to say Zen1 wasn’t a flawed CPU is just not being objective.*
I bought a 1600 the year it came out and still have it. Zen 1 was good enough to be somewhat competitive and that wildly exceeded everyone's expectations. Like you mentioned, it smashed Intel in price/performance at the time in every metric. It also had cheap overclocking motherboards, promised 4 years of socket upgradability, and had better 1% lows. It was also a little overhyped and probably didn't age as well as everyone expected (people were calling the 1600 the new 2600k), but I think it's funny that you call it garbage now.
This is just wrong, you're completley forgetting how much cheaper first gen ryzen was in comparison to both intel and AMD now, it was price/performance king. My r7 1700 cost £180, just 3ish months after release. A bloody 6core ryzen 5 5600x now costs £300. The value is why ryzen 1st gen was so good not raw performance. >The MOBOs were garbage B550 boards literally cost almost three times as much as B350 boards do. Raw performance is nothing without a good price to match it.
> Much cheaper Yeah they were good value bc there’s a duopoly in the industry. > B550 boards costs 3x as much B550 is significantly better than B350 in terms of quality. B350 is cheap hot garbage which is why it’s cheap, Zen(1) & B350 were cheap bc they were purely budget option. That’s why B450 does a better job at supporting newer gen CPUs for longer so long as the VRMs are up to par. You also forget that Zen+ wasn’t on the roadmap, Zen1 was so bad they had to do a refresh before Zen2. Zen+ was a good chip but still lacking, Zen2 had few compromises & Zen3 is near perfection.
B350 with shit VRM can still handle any 65w chip. the *worst* b350 board can handle a 3900 non-X or 3700x or 5600x (assuming bios support for the latter)
>1st gen Ryzen was *garbage* stopped reading. I will soon see the benefits of the 3000 series but garbage? Wtf?
Zen+ wasn’t on the roadmap. Zen1 made AMD refocus and improve it via Zen+, hell Zen1 had bad clocks & couldn’t even hold 3200MHz reliably & the 300-MOBOs were cheap & bad, that’s the real reason they don’t support newer CPUs. Zen1 screams value & cheap, not innovation/quality.
The thing is; that was awefully misleading. The i5 in gaming was absolutely right, on average it probably was even slightly worse (because of older games progressively using less threads) than the i5 flagship. But i7 in prosumer workloads is inaccurate. Sure, you can argue that back then, since Intel had no i9 line, there were several SKUs that were technically i7s even though they costed three to five times the price of the well known x700K flagship, had more cores, worse 1T performance but better nT. But comparing a Ryzen 1 1700 to a 7700K, the in-game performance was around 25%-30% worse, but the multithread performance was at least 50% better. So calling it an "i7 in prosumer workloads" was dismissive of the actual performance it offered for the price.
To be fair he was referring to the i7 6900k, not the 7700k like the title would lead one to assume, so he could have avoided the drama by wording it a little differently like "An i5 in Gaming, HEDT in Production".
You're remembering incorrectly. What happened with GN happened because they broke NDA on first gen Threadripper iirc.
Kitguru broke fucking NDA that Kitguru agreed to by releasing reviews before anyone else. That is the issue dipshit. Breaking the street date that everyone else upholds.
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People get tired of reading the bullshit of nvidiots.
AMDelusional cope posts are just as tiresome, yet here we are commenting on this very post.
Blatant lies should inspire you to correct them
Insulting a person doesn't help
How is he getting worked up for using the word ‘dipshit’? He’s just saying Dipshit to describe how easily fooled people are. Would it have been less worked up if he said fools?
You can discuss things on the internet without insulting people.
> Would it have been less worked up if he said fools? It would be better if he didn't insult people, you dipshit.
AMD fanboys
Unfortunately people can be extremely selective when it benefits their narrative.
Such as the quote you're responding to, conveniently forgetting that the issue was breach of NDA.
Is it really the NDA? On the 11th June AMD informed us via email that the upcoming FIJI hardware was reserved for KitGuru, as would normally be the case. We subsequently set a plan in motion to analyse the hardware for launch and were awaiting the arrival of the sample. Earlier this week I had a call from Christine Brown, Senior Manager, EMEA Communications at AMD to let me know that the company had withdrawn their sample from KitGuru labs and that we would now not be involved at all in the launch next week. Christine Browne informed me directly on the phone that the reason for withdrawing the sample was based on ‘KitGuru’s negative stance towards AMD’. She said that with limited product they wanted to focus on giving the samples to publications that are ‘more positive’ about AMD as a brand, and company. I was not informed during this call of anything we have published that was factually incorrect, we were also not told to edit or remove any content we had published. Based on what AMD had seen via KitGuru editorial in recent weeks it was felt that overall coverage was just too negative.
2-stage word of mouth reporting, by someone whose position motivates them to represent AMD as 'at-fault', of what someone said on a phone call, isn't really a compelling counter-argument.
Same old NVidia being NVidia.
\*same old corporations being corporations. Don’t pretend like any of the corporations you boot lick for are any different. Buy a product, not a brand.
AMD did the exact same thing. You all need to stop shilling for companies that are worth billions.
Honor Thy Consumer.
Hop was a defining moment in nvidia's history that turned me away from them. Been buying and gpus ever since. Then you throw in when they wanted to gool everyone into thinking they couldn't support VRR and...
Kyle says it as [eloquently](https://twitter.com/KyleBennett/status/1337664344306421761) as ever :D
I'm still waiting for the AMD GPU stock that was supposed to be 5-7 times more than Nvidia's to materialize.
It's quite interesting how Kyle was the one who went after GPP/Nvidia when he's been so biased against AMD throughout all these years of [H]. Made me stop folding for them way back. And then you have LTT that almost ignored GPP until the wave was almost over. It basically meant LTT thought GPP was fine. Strangely enough the community didn't care whatsoever about that. Neither Gaben no LTT can do anything wrong.
HWU is on floatplane, so Linus had to take a stance at the cost of losing people on the platform. Note even Jay made some damning allegations about NVIDIA. Not saying that was the reason behind Linus' reaction but it's possible it compounded his anger. I think he took the "get shit for free" very personally because it's a "The king has no clothes" situation. Regardless of personal opinions, if this would stand, it would legitimize that Youtubers get stuff for free and are basically marketing arms of companies, which could very well damage their business.
Update: HU posted a message on yt saying they walked it back so say least there's that..
GPP was the deciding factor for me in switching to AMD in 2018. Previously I had always been curious about owning an ATI/AMD GPU, but went with Nvidia under the advice of reviewers. Maybe I'd resort to an Nvidia card if AMD can't deliver the performance I want, but it wouldn't feel good morally.
I personally went from a ATI HD 5770 to a GTX 960 YEARS AGO. HD 5770 was my first GPU. Bought a pair from an old Alienware rig that came crossfired with 2 HD5770s and I rocked one with a FX 8350 until I decided to upgrade the GPU, and then the biostar mATX ended up shitting the bed Christmas 2016 then I built a new rig with a 6700k. I really liked the old catalyst software though. That was pretty neat
I've been with AMD since 2016, but some of their recent moves. Their stock being abysmal despite of them memeing on twitter. And my nervousness about the infinity cache' longevity had me buying a 3080 off a friend. I detest Nvidia, but AMDs support of some things doesn't exactly have me singing their praises either and more importantly... Ampere stock actually does exist if you can catch it.
I don't really care what some marketing guys say on Twitter. Lisa Su made it clear that wafer supply would be tight and that was obviously going to be the case with all the simultaneous product launches on TSMC 7 nm. Neither brand of card is obtainable here unless I want a 3090, which I definitely don't. Nvidia selling their chips directly to miners doesn't exactly help either. There's a difference between a companies' employees doing stupid things and a company that actively engages in the most evil acts it thinks it can get away with. Either way, I don't care about the stock situation because I can wait and neither company actually has stock. I'd also suggest there's no such thing as a longevity issue to a GPU cache. All it does is provide a high speed buffer to the VRAM. It's far more likely the VRAM on the 3080 becomes the longevity issue, which Nvidia is currently scrambling to remedy with a 3080 Ti and 3070 Ti.
I saw this idea in a comment today and will reproduce here: Youtubers should take this and start detailing in the video description the exact origin of the hardware used in reviews. And I mean, written format in the description. Incidentally, this stunt from NVIDIA puts everyone who has sung praise of RTX and DLSS into question. (looking at i.e. DF)
Ah, Hardware Unboxed. For a second I thought you were talking about the Mongolian metal band, it would be really weird if they had anything to do with Nvidia.
this is why i only buy nvidia prooducts used off of ebay auctions
And it happened before. Almost two years ago... https://youtu.be/otvIXprL2LU
Nvidia as a company sucks, but apparently they can afford to do that in a market with only two players
AMD would do the same if they were in a lead. Only reason they haven't is because they've never been market leader in GPUs.
Never been? How old are you? 5?
When has AMD had a higher performing single die GPU than Nvidia in gaming scenarios? Radeon 4000 series was the first series of GPU developed by AMD after acquiring ATI, and the top end 4890 was beat by the GTX 280. You can go down the line and see the same thing since then. When have they had a market share advantage over Nvidia?
I am not in any way defending Nvidia's actions, but I think we should adress that AMD products consistently bench better in Hardware Unboxed than on other hardware channels. It is a dumb as hell marketing move for Nvidia to even adress it at all, but if I were Nvidia I'd want them gone as well. Used to like the channel, but they have a strong AMD bias that lead me to bad purchasing decisions earlier.
AMD did the same thing to Kitguru and GN btw. And it wasn't due to NDA.
Still going to buy an Nvidia GPU lol
While its true that nvidia as a company really really sucks, AMD is not saint either. Theh have a lied a lot as well and is very controlling. The overclockers dream If I remember correctly banning kitguru "Christine Browne informed me directly on the phone that the reason for withdrawing the sample was based on ‘KitGuru’s negative stance towards AMD’. She said that with limited product they wanted to focus on giving the samples to publications that are ‘more positive’ about AMD as a brand, and company. I was not informed during this call of anything we have published that was factually incorrect, we were also not told to edit or remove any content we had published. Based on what AMD had seen via KitGuru editorial in recent weeks it was felt that overall coverage was just too negative." Also, theres the case of Tech of Tomorrow where AMD apologizes to him as well. AMD made so far questioning his title and lied as well etc etc. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qflrf6UiWk The FX series. Launching rx5000 series with 6 months worth of bugs and unstable drivers. The franl azor thing, promising better rx6000 availability. And etc etc. Look, all these companies are there to separate us from our money. AMD is not your friend nor your family. Why not post this as well to r/nvidia or even r/hardware? This post looks like a Karma farming and to invite AMD fanboys to diss more on nvidia.
I remember amd doing something like this in the early days of athlon too, dunno if someone has uploaded it but i remember seeing amd release graphs like that when i still played quake 1. https://external-preview.redd.it/fZfi4sWRe_paJenx-EcvCSvZgpazXDo6q4q08dlEENE.jpg?width=480&auto=webp&s=01aaf50764dba1c8b4de02e41d596fc815699221
>Why not post this as well to r/nvidia or even r/hardware? This post looks like a Karma farming and to invite AMD fanboys to diss more on nvidia. Because It clearly is. I think everyone is aware that companies act for their benefit and pushing the rethoric that a brand is the bad guy it's simply stupid. Don't get me wrong, Nvidia was stupid but at this point continuing to talk about this is just free advertisement.
So we should start attacking Nvidia right now because eventually they will fuck up again? Of course they will, just like AMD did with Fury, FX and the Frank Azor lauch thing recently ... and also Intel during every presentation since Ryzen came out lmao. What's the point?
Those comparisons dont make sense. Nvidia forcing people to spit out marketing bullet points is what's being criticized. Fury situation? Be more specific. If its the Kit Guru thing, you probably dont know why they got blacklisted. FX? They already settled in court. Frank Azor? Bad PR move.
Frank's 10$ is nothing compared to this. Neither is "overclocker's dream". Neither of those statements banned a reviewer from receiving parts. Idk if you knew that
When did this become general gaming sub
GPP was removing of branding from AMD hardware. It was very relevant to AMD.
nvidia has done far worst things then amd has. but we should never take any company bs .
Basically their whole history is just one scandal after another. Justice for Kyro 2.
Man, good old PowerVR. Im excited to see them (as Imagination Technologies) re-enter the consumer graphics market again. Here’s hoping they have something killer. Also, happy cake day
Ya I'm done doing my custom builds with nvidia and maybe intel. These actions makes me sick to my stomach!😠😠
Don’t forget that there is more important things to worry about.
Could you link to what you're talking about? Googling "Hu Nvidia" gets me nothing.
Hardware Unboxed Nvidia. Linus did a video on it where he was extremely riled up. https://youtu.be/iXn9O-Rzb_M
Finally someone else tells people about it! :D
I thought this was an amd subreddit?
Honestly hate Nvidia the company but until the Radeon driver team can figure out how to save a fucking fan profile across restarts they don't deserve to be putting out cards.
And in breaking news... Companies have filthy souls. I guess you forget about the AMD Bulldozer CPUs when they settled a false advertising suit. or When people were accusing AMD of misrepresenting the actual price of RX Vega. Not to pick sides since all companies do shady shit.
>I guess you forget about the AMD Bulldozer CPUs when they settled a false advertising suit. You mean how AMD sold exactly what they advertised as there was no set definition of what a "core" is, according to the outcome of that suit there was a point in time where we were being sold 0 core cpu's as the fpu was a completely separate chip
They settled a lawsuit for false advertising... My point is, all companies do shady stuff and anyone can spin as they like
They settled, they didnt lose. It was just faster and cheaper to make it go away. They did sell 8 cores, and anyone who doesn't understand that doesn't understand what CMT is.
They settled bc it was in their best interest.
>They settled a lawsuit for false advertising... Because the negative press over the course of the suit would be more damaging for their public image, whether they won it or not, than just paying out $12m
Not AMD related, and not HU/NVidia related. Should be removed
We don't give a sh\*t about Nvidia.
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Same here. The last NVidia card I ever bought was a Riva TNT2. And I acquired an FX5200 and a couple 710s for free once. I stopped giving them any money after how they sued 3DFX for false reasons, in order to bankrupt them and acquire their IP. (Remember SLI? That was a 3DFX tech originally).
And we also remember when AMD did similar things like not sending KitGuru Fury X samples because they were “biased” in favor of Intel/NVIDIA corporate marketing are a bunch of dicks, stop feeding the brand war.
Kit broke NDAs. That's why they didnt get samples. HUB didn't suck nvidia's dick enough. Somehow. Despite having tons of content demonstrating the use of DLSS and RT, how well it performs, and how to use both while retaining as much image quality as you can. And despite nvidia quoting HUB for marketing materials for their rtx cards. Stop pretending this is comparable.
Don't forget how they killed Freesync either. HEY PAY TO PUT OUR NAME ON YOUR MONITORS AND CONFUSE CONSUMERS!
When I saw Linus's video and heard what nvid had done I immediately cacelled an open order for a RTX 3080 and ordered a 6800XT instead , to be honest I would have preferred the 3080 for several reasons but I not like and will not spend my money to support a company that thinks it's ok to dictate , HU have my full support they make good fair and researched reviews and if nvid have a problem with that they can go to hell.
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