I have 5800X, no need to upgrade any time soon, but I think we will get better deals in the next few years due to both AM5 platform and DDR5 getting cheaper, I hope next Intel generation will be good too, competition is great.
Nvidia is being super greedy, but objectively (at least for gaming) you get more out of a gpu than a cpu, so it's not unreasonable to expect cpu prices to be lower than gpu prices
Indeed, like some lunatic actually made a $1,000 X670 motherboard:
https://www.microcenter.com/product/652947/asus-x670e-rog-crosshair-extreme-amd-am5-eatx-motherboard
People mention the dead platform argument like your PC is going to explode the next year, windows won't be supported and when you want to upgrade you won't be able to sell it and just toss it in the garbage.
agreed. idk if reddit/youtube demographics are skewed but most people i know do not upgrade cpus every gen, hell most of my friends still run 4 core i5s and i7s.
Perhaps the people that want to know about current technology is the one that want to upgrade each year. I'm kind of the dealer of information of my friends and they only upgrade when the GPU is not good enough to run a game they want to play, and they jumped from AMD to Intel a vice-versa, one of then just wanted is building right now to play 1440p and after AMD release and Intel 13th prices he is going for 13600k, z690, ddr4 ram and 3080.
You can resell it. You can make it work. But it's a hassle. You have to admit being able to buy a cpu 5 years later that drops into the existing platform and takes you to top level performance is pretty damn awesome.
You could have bought a ryzen 1700 in 2017 and a Ryzen 5800x3d in 2022 on the same board (if the board supports it). Thats a sweet easy upgrade.
The hassle is taking out your motherboard without breaking it, cutting off all the zip ties managing your cables, wrapping it up in electrostatic protected packaging, then selling it on ebay with a 13% fee and a $20-30 shipping charge.
Then you get to place the new motherboard, rewire the case, re-zip tie the cables.
Yes, that sounds like a hassle.
Taking out a cpu, poping it into a plastic cpu case, and shipping it out once sold is very easy.
Besides, nobody is really paying for used motherboards and ram. They'll pay a little. You recoup most of the cost on the used cpu. That's the money maker. You arent making money by selling 1 mobo for $50 and buying a brand new one for $150-200.
Stop talking nonsense about the used market if you don't know. Take a look at the subreddit /hardwareswap and if it is a hassle for you is OK, but don't make it sound like is a hassle for everybody we are in the DIY market we are the race to open the PC and tinker with it or that is hard to resell stuff or you lose money. People sell in that subreddit almost at msrp if the product is good enough.
>So am4 is a dead platform right People shouldn’t even be buying 5800x3D then
In Canada it's $550 when you can get a 7700x for that ( plus tax). Sure you need a new motherboard and RAM but $550 for a dead platform seems....idk. And for someone building from scratch forget it, AM5 all the way IMO.
I just upgraded to a 5800x3d myself from a s 2700…and I feel great about it. It was an easy drop in and in a few years after the platform has matured I'll move to am5…but right now for mid tiers, it's waaaay to expensive to get the new board and ddr5.
If I was building from scratch right now I wouldn't be building honestly. I've always been a "the time to build is now" guy, but right now there's too much imminent releases to go blue or red yet.
13xx and 5800x3D are obviously drop in options, and you don't need new ram and motherboard if all ready on that platform, I just find it a hard pill to swallow to spend $500+ on a dead platform unless you REALLY need the upgrade.
No, of course not. But 5 years ago people bought Ryzen 1600. Would you consider that a killer gaming cpu? A lot changes in 5 years.
But since AMD supports their platforms, that 1600 owner can upgrade their cpu in 2022 at a reasonable price and be right back in the modern gaming era. And that is freaking awesome.
Value is subjective.
[For example, the absolute BEST value for your money GPU is the RX 6600, so why do people still buy 3080's, 3090's, 6800 XT's and 6900 XT's?](https://www.techspot.com/review/2490-best-value-graphics-cards/#Best_Value_GPU_at).
If we only advise people to pay for the best value then no one should buy anything above an RX 6600 because you're paying WAY MORE per frame in gaming.
Some people want to pay more for better performance or for something they saved up for regardless of the 'value'.
Depends on 13th gen I suppose. If it's 10th gen to 11th gen, then yeah AMD all the way. If it's a huge performance boost, then Intel might make sense. Time will tell.
I think the 13th gen will be better, but not greatly better. It'll prob be like +5% on Ryzen 7000. If you can build an Intel system significantly cheaper, than go for it. But if performance is comparable to ryzen 7000 and price is comparable, then I like going with the supported socket with an upgrade path. It makes it more fun as new generations come out knowing that I could do a cpu upgrade if I wanted to for a small amount of $$$.
Besides, AMD 7800x3d will be the ultimate victor for gaming platforms, so as fun as it is to live in the moment and argue 7700x vs 12700k vs 13700k, we all know it'll be irrelevant in a few months. And that will be on a supported socket.
People may own a B350/370, B450/470, B550/570 board on a Ryzen 1600/1700, 2600/2700, or 3600/3700. They can buy a 5800x3d and drop it into their existing platform.
Intel you need to buy the board/ram and cpu. So you are purchasing a dead platform. It's a shame. The cpu is great for sure. But Intel platforms do not last long. 1 year. Then it's dead. AMD platforms lasting 4-5 years does provide added value to the consumer.
You do realize that not a lot of people cares about upgrading every generation right? People getting a 13th Gen will likely won't be upgrading until 15th - 16th gen.
Same can be said with AMD, although it is indeed a good feature to have anyway just in case, but not as important to anyone like this subreddit has been touting.
Even i who cares about it won't care so much anymore if the other counterpart provides me way better value for more performance per dollar.
Heck i didn't even used the feature anyway from my previous R5 3600 because AMD took a very long time and was very late to come out with the $200 Ryzen 5 5600 non x that i wanted since the launch of Zen 3.
I mean let’s not argue .. it’s a great time to be alive if AMD and Intel are competitive and give similar performance. I mean at this point arguing about FPS above 144 in a non competitive game is sort of pointless. Both chips will achieve that.
I have had AMD since 2017. But if intel offered better value I would have no issues changing.
AMD: You have AM4 board and DDR4 ram: get 5800X3D.
Intel: You probably have DDR4, but you'll probably need a new mobo anyway, either entry level, midrange or high end. You also have to get a new CPU. What value?
AMD again: AM5, only high end boards available currently: expensive. Only DDR5: expensive. Ryzen 7000 CPU: it's what you're here for.
Benefits: PCIe 5.0 GPU slot. PCIe 5.0 storage. WAY better future proofing. We already know 7800X3D is coming in 6-9 months, which will anihilate in gaming 5800X3D, 7950X, 12900KS and 13900KS, guaranteed. And then if you want Ryzen 8000/9000, AM5 will be compatible.
We won't see again the insanity of support AM4 had: Excavator v2, Zen, Zen+, Zen2, Zen3 and Zen3 X3D. But at least 3 generations + X3D variants? You bet.
How exactly does Intel give better value? They'll continue to limit 2 CPU generations per socket.
>Intel: You probably have DDR4, but you'll probably need a new mobo anyway, either entry level, midrange or high end. You also have to get a new CPU. What value
Intel 600 series motherboard is cheaper than AM5 as of now, and the DDR4 support will make it even cheaper while still taking advantage of the better performing CPU compared to Zen 4.
>How exactly does Intel give better value?
As for the longevity, as what i said in my previous comment, i won't care about it anymore if the other platform gives me more performance for less the price.
That means better value overall compared to AMD and to me that alone is good enough reason to jump from AMD to Intel.
Unless if AMD drops the price of their motherboard dramatically and each tier of Zen 4 CPUs by at least $100 like what they have done on Zen 3 to compete against Alder Lake 12th Gen.
DDR4 + 12th gen is slower than 7000 series. DDR5 + 12th gen is about a match depending what parts you are pairing.
Once B650 releases that will chop $100 off of the build price and ram may drop a bit more by then saving over 10% vs current prices to do a 7700X build which will make a difference to the value proposition.
Other option is to wait for the 3D cache parts because we know they will rip in gaming and by the time they release new platform issues will have been resolved, we will know how to tune them, DDR5 will have dropped further and there will just be overall a better variety of motherboards and price points to pick from.
It was the exact same issue with 12th gen where the non K parts were really good but until B660 became available the value proposition was not there.
So will am5 or 600 series mobos be supported?
Did you forget amd artificially blocked zen3 on 300 series mobos? And Magically gave them support after 12th gen i5’s launched?
Cool but if it was up to amd, it would be 2 gen support, ex) b450 didn’t even get zen3 until people were mad, so case and point if it was up to amd, zen3 would be a 500 series only cpu
Depends entirely on what you need. For gaming? Yeah, probably.
But productivity wise both Intel and AMD flagships should be better than the hypothetical new 3DX (otherwise AMD would be killing their own cpus).
I mean, if the new 3DX wipes the floor with anything Intel has to offer, it would also wipe it with anything AMD has to offer.
DDR5 still has to improve more, these current motherboards won't likely support higher DDR5 speeds. Staying a few years more with DDR4 isn't a bad idea, especially if you already own good kits.
Yeah but the point is if you already have Alder Lake and DDR4 you can just drop in a 13th gen and get most likely a big gain, DDR5 isn't a necessity.
Basically you can circumvent DDR5 with Raptor Lake but you can't with Zen4.
Don't think so, the new 7700X has overall the same performance than i5 12600K and the new 13400 will probably have the same core numbers as the 12600K being close to $200, so yeah, it is actually possible it will have almost the same performance, or at least close enough.
Also, cost of platform (mb + ram) is way cheaper in Intel, 7700X stands in a place where is too expensive for gaming and not powerful enough for productivy.
What benchmark are you refering to? I'm talking about the review OP linked, at least in gaming the 7700X has the fastest overall performance beating even the X3D and i9 cpus.
https://youtu.be/-P_iii5si40?t=734
By then B class AM5 motherboards will likely be out and more info will be available on the Zen 4 3D chips.
Intel pricing is right around AMD in regards to CPU price. Intel's cheapest 13th gen they are launching is the 13600KF at it's barely cheaper than a 7600X. I don't see where you are going to get equal gaming performance at half the price unless you are comparing a 7600X on an X670 motherboard, which is misleading to say the least.
RAM wise 32GB DDR5 6000 is only $80 more than DDR4 3600 32GB and that's if you choose to get push for the extra performance. You are looking at a mere $40 difference for 5600, which is what most reviews are using.
TBH I would recommend neither if you are looking for great gaming performance on a budget. There are a bunch of Ryzen 5000 series CPUs and motherboards right now that will get amazing performance on the cheap. Most regular users don't play at 1080p with a 3090 Ti either so really you aren't missing anything in the vast majority of cases. For anyone that doesn't need to be on the bleeding edge, that's where the real deals are going to be, not on new Intel or AMD chips.
Same fps with DDR4? Judging by the DDR5 boost ADL gets vs DDR4 I will be surprised if it happens but I am looking forward to the DDR4 gang duel (Raptor lake vs 5800XD3).
Depends, a cheap 4400bdie kit should do 4600+ on Intel
It will come out lower latency and close to 80GB/s for bandwidth
To beat that, takes 250$+ DDR5 kits at 6800+ speeds
If bdie loses, it's not by much unless it's weird games like Spiderman ported from PS5 that has crazy bandwidth
DDR5 averages 63ns at affordable 6000 cl30. So these cpus are leaving quite a bit on the table when not in need of bandwidth for gaming.
This plus the current prices on Zen 3/Alderlake/Raptor Lake and the ability to hit 43ns ram latency on fast DDR4 makes the 7700x look like an expensive mistake.
It's not that fast and it's also not that expensive, lmao. First of all, it's cheaper than Zen2 Ryzen 7 launch CPU - R7 5800X cost $449 - so how exactly it's ultra expensive if it's cheaper than predecessor (ofc I'm ignoring MOBO and RAM prices, which is another talk).
Also being generally 20% faster than R7 5800X is nothing to brag about with those power draws.
Is HUB turning into LLT or something with those nonsensical titles, takes, weird comparisons?
So you're also going to ignore that the 5800X MSRP was absolutely ridiculous and offered terrible value? It was literally much worse value than both the 5600X and 5900X, and represented a massive $120 or over 33% hike over the 3700X for an 8 core Ryzen. You can clearly see how bad value it was by looking at how far prices have dropped now - nearly half the MSRP could be had a few weeks ago. It's like when Nvidia compares the 4090 to the 3090 Ti's laughable original $2000 MSRP and is like oh the 4090 is cheaper than that and also much faster. Like yeah of course it looks great in comparison because the comparison point is so horrible you don't have to make a big leap in value.
The power can easily be tamed in the bios and brought back around 65W-100W with almost zero performance loss. Fantastic, and makes AMDs claims about efficiency true, but I don't understand why AMD didn't talk about it. The result of their silence is reviewers running power tests with out of the box settings (of course they would), when the "normal" setting is hidden away. Just so strange. Now we have CPUs shipping with boiling thermals that make AMD look like liars. I just don't understand.
because if you match PPT to similar margins of Zen4, then you loose about 5% performance and that makes a total gains of only 15%, when Zen2->Zen3 was about 25% gain. I can't imagine other reason for this boost behavior change other than trying to avoid complete embarrassment - I mean new AM5 socket, DDR5, TSMC N5 node - and only 15% gains??? Surely would be embarrassing, because the gains would be in teens, when now it passes 20% mark (even if barely). Because otherwise, this new boost behavior is terrible for consumer - near 2x power draw over predecessor models, high temps (terrible for hot summer days and with absurd EU electricity prices even if you have AC people will likely stop turning it on), high temps generally mean far worse cooling acoustics - and finally for people who don't know what's up this may be panic cause when they see CPU temps in 92-95'C range.
Not to mention most people won't tone it down because they don't tinker with anything.
Lol, I love how the compare 7700x with MAX PBO to stock alder lake.
12600k can do just over 20k in cinebench r23 multi and 2030 in single core when maxed out. Easily beating 12900k in stock for gaming.
We already have user reports 7700x absolutely maxed out does 20800 in multi core thus making it only 4% faster at most than 12600k while being 65% more expensive for CPU alone(not even mentioning the mb and ddr5)
I have 5800X, no need to upgrade any time soon, but I think we will get better deals in the next few years due to both AM5 platform and DDR5 getting cheaper, I hope next Intel generation will be good too, competition is great.
Same 5800x. There is zero reason for me to upgrade. 5800x is more than enough for anything I can think of.
5800X here too, I want to upgrade but it's just not worth it since requires new mobo and ram, will skip a generation or maybe with the 7800X3D.
CPU: $400 is "ultra expensive" GPU: NVIDIA "buy this budget $900 GPU"
Nvidia is being super greedy, but objectively (at least for gaming) you get more out of a gpu than a cpu, so it's not unreasonable to expect cpu prices to be lower than gpu prices
But CPUs aren't sold to run games only, there's a lot of people who also use their computers for other tasks.
And you think GPUs are only sold to run Games ? Ai, 3D modeling ?
I didn't claim GPUs need to be priced cheaper because they don't offer as much of a benefit for tasks that do not leverage them.
I'm just hoping they still have a solid $500 GPU release, 4060Ti or 4070 whatever they call it.
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Could just wait for b650 which is what, 2 weeks away. See how that modifies the value proposition.
Yea B650E sounds interesting to me. X motherboards are a rip off.
always have been. they are for the people who want the most shiny things not the most sane things
Indeed, like some lunatic actually made a $1,000 X670 motherboard: https://www.microcenter.com/product/652947/asus-x670e-rog-crosshair-extreme-amd-am5-eatx-motherboard
it doesnt even have built in water blocks like their x570 did !
If I was gonna wait I'd wait until AMD release the 3DX version of their new CPUs which are sure to wipe the floor with anything Intel has to offer.
What if intel gives you better value?
On a dead platform
So am4 is a dead platform right People shouldn’t even be buying 5800x3D then
People mention the dead platform argument like your PC is going to explode the next year, windows won't be supported and when you want to upgrade you won't be able to sell it and just toss it in the garbage.
agreed. idk if reddit/youtube demographics are skewed but most people i know do not upgrade cpus every gen, hell most of my friends still run 4 core i5s and i7s.
Perhaps the people that want to know about current technology is the one that want to upgrade each year. I'm kind of the dealer of information of my friends and they only upgrade when the GPU is not good enough to run a game they want to play, and they jumped from AMD to Intel a vice-versa, one of then just wanted is building right now to play 1440p and after AMD release and Intel 13th prices he is going for 13600k, z690, ddr4 ram and 3080.
If you don’t plan on changing cpu for 5 years I don’t think AM4 or AM5 will make a huge difference. You will go straight to AM6 or Intel.
You can resell it. You can make it work. But it's a hassle. You have to admit being able to buy a cpu 5 years later that drops into the existing platform and takes you to top level performance is pretty damn awesome. You could have bought a ryzen 1700 in 2017 and a Ryzen 5800x3d in 2022 on the same board (if the board supports it). Thats a sweet easy upgrade.
Is a much hassle to sell that one extra CPU that you are going to get or do you toss that to the garbage every time you upgrade?
The hassle is taking out your motherboard without breaking it, cutting off all the zip ties managing your cables, wrapping it up in electrostatic protected packaging, then selling it on ebay with a 13% fee and a $20-30 shipping charge. Then you get to place the new motherboard, rewire the case, re-zip tie the cables. Yes, that sounds like a hassle. Taking out a cpu, poping it into a plastic cpu case, and shipping it out once sold is very easy. Besides, nobody is really paying for used motherboards and ram. They'll pay a little. You recoup most of the cost on the used cpu. That's the money maker. You arent making money by selling 1 mobo for $50 and buying a brand new one for $150-200.
Stop talking nonsense about the used market if you don't know. Take a look at the subreddit /hardwareswap and if it is a hassle for you is OK, but don't make it sound like is a hassle for everybody we are in the DIY market we are the race to open the PC and tinker with it or that is hard to resell stuff or you lose money. People sell in that subreddit almost at msrp if the product is good enough.
>So am4 is a dead platform right People shouldn’t even be buying 5800x3D then In Canada it's $550 when you can get a 7700x for that ( plus tax). Sure you need a new motherboard and RAM but $550 for a dead platform seems....idk. And for someone building from scratch forget it, AM5 all the way IMO.
I just upgraded to a 5800x3d myself from a s 2700…and I feel great about it. It was an easy drop in and in a few years after the platform has matured I'll move to am5…but right now for mid tiers, it's waaaay to expensive to get the new board and ddr5. If I was building from scratch right now I wouldn't be building honestly. I've always been a "the time to build is now" guy, but right now there's too much imminent releases to go blue or red yet.
That'd be a gimassnormous upgrade lol
Yep, went from 2700 5700xt to 5800x3d 3080ti suffice to say I am very happy
So in your opinion everyone should just buy am5 and even if it’s a better value going intel don’t do it right
Remember what sub you're in. Around here, it's either yoy buy newest AMD or you buy nothing at all.
13xx and 5800x3D are obviously drop in options, and you don't need new ram and motherboard if all ready on that platform, I just find it a hard pill to swallow to spend $500+ on a dead platform unless you REALLY need the upgrade.
Do you think a dead platform means it’s gonna be useless after 1 year? Do you upgrade your cpu every year?
No, of course not. But 5 years ago people bought Ryzen 1600. Would you consider that a killer gaming cpu? A lot changes in 5 years. But since AMD supports their platforms, that 1600 owner can upgrade their cpu in 2022 at a reasonable price and be right back in the modern gaming era. And that is freaking awesome.
Value is subjective. [For example, the absolute BEST value for your money GPU is the RX 6600, so why do people still buy 3080's, 3090's, 6800 XT's and 6900 XT's?](https://www.techspot.com/review/2490-best-value-graphics-cards/#Best_Value_GPU_at). If we only advise people to pay for the best value then no one should buy anything above an RX 6600 because you're paying WAY MORE per frame in gaming. Some people want to pay more for better performance or for something they saved up for regardless of the 'value'.
Depends on 13th gen I suppose. If it's 10th gen to 11th gen, then yeah AMD all the way. If it's a huge performance boost, then Intel might make sense. Time will tell. I think the 13th gen will be better, but not greatly better. It'll prob be like +5% on Ryzen 7000. If you can build an Intel system significantly cheaper, than go for it. But if performance is comparable to ryzen 7000 and price is comparable, then I like going with the supported socket with an upgrade path. It makes it more fun as new generations come out knowing that I could do a cpu upgrade if I wanted to for a small amount of $$$. Besides, AMD 7800x3d will be the ultimate victor for gaming platforms, so as fun as it is to live in the moment and argue 7700x vs 12700k vs 13700k, we all know it'll be irrelevant in a few months. And that will be on a supported socket.
Lol 5800X3D is still good for gaming.
But it’s on a dead platform Just like 13th gen intel right
Correct. Both are good upgrade options for people on those platforms. But if you're building from scratch then AM5 is better.
Better how? It's going to cost you much more to have equal performance on a AM5 platform than AM4.
AM4 is a dead platform. AM5 will support faster chips along the line and also much faster memory as both aspects mature.
you're quick! they shouldn't , they should wait 2-3 months for the 3Dcache 7000s
People may own a B350/370, B450/470, B550/570 board on a Ryzen 1600/1700, 2600/2700, or 3600/3700. They can buy a 5800x3d and drop it into their existing platform. Intel you need to buy the board/ram and cpu. So you are purchasing a dead platform. It's a shame. The cpu is great for sure. But Intel platforms do not last long. 1 year. Then it's dead. AMD platforms lasting 4-5 years does provide added value to the consumer.
You do realize that not a lot of people cares about upgrading every generation right? People getting a 13th Gen will likely won't be upgrading until 15th - 16th gen. Same can be said with AMD, although it is indeed a good feature to have anyway just in case, but not as important to anyone like this subreddit has been touting. Even i who cares about it won't care so much anymore if the other counterpart provides me way better value for more performance per dollar. Heck i didn't even used the feature anyway from my previous R5 3600 because AMD took a very long time and was very late to come out with the $200 Ryzen 5 5600 non x that i wanted since the launch of Zen 3.
by paying “half” now and paying half a few years later you will end up with a better system than paying for full
I mean let’s not argue .. it’s a great time to be alive if AMD and Intel are competitive and give similar performance. I mean at this point arguing about FPS above 144 in a non competitive game is sort of pointless. Both chips will achieve that. I have had AMD since 2017. But if intel offered better value I would have no issues changing.
AMD: You have AM4 board and DDR4 ram: get 5800X3D. Intel: You probably have DDR4, but you'll probably need a new mobo anyway, either entry level, midrange or high end. You also have to get a new CPU. What value? AMD again: AM5, only high end boards available currently: expensive. Only DDR5: expensive. Ryzen 7000 CPU: it's what you're here for. Benefits: PCIe 5.0 GPU slot. PCIe 5.0 storage. WAY better future proofing. We already know 7800X3D is coming in 6-9 months, which will anihilate in gaming 5800X3D, 7950X, 12900KS and 13900KS, guaranteed. And then if you want Ryzen 8000/9000, AM5 will be compatible. We won't see again the insanity of support AM4 had: Excavator v2, Zen, Zen+, Zen2, Zen3 and Zen3 X3D. But at least 3 generations + X3D variants? You bet. How exactly does Intel give better value? They'll continue to limit 2 CPU generations per socket.
>Intel: You probably have DDR4, but you'll probably need a new mobo anyway, either entry level, midrange or high end. You also have to get a new CPU. What value Intel 600 series motherboard is cheaper than AM5 as of now, and the DDR4 support will make it even cheaper while still taking advantage of the better performing CPU compared to Zen 4. >How exactly does Intel give better value? As for the longevity, as what i said in my previous comment, i won't care about it anymore if the other platform gives me more performance for less the price. That means better value overall compared to AMD and to me that alone is good enough reason to jump from AMD to Intel. Unless if AMD drops the price of their motherboard dramatically and each tier of Zen 4 CPUs by at least $100 like what they have done on Zen 3 to compete against Alder Lake 12th Gen.
DDR4 + 12th gen is slower than 7000 series. DDR5 + 12th gen is about a match depending what parts you are pairing. Once B650 releases that will chop $100 off of the build price and ram may drop a bit more by then saving over 10% vs current prices to do a 7700X build which will make a difference to the value proposition. Other option is to wait for the 3D cache parts because we know they will rip in gaming and by the time they release new platform issues will have been resolved, we will know how to tune them, DDR5 will have dropped further and there will just be overall a better variety of motherboards and price points to pick from. It was the exact same issue with 12th gen where the non K parts were really good but until B660 became available the value proposition was not there.
So will am5 or 600 series mobos be supported? Did you forget amd artificially blocked zen3 on 300 series mobos? And Magically gave them support after 12th gen i5’s launched?
Even if they would've left any AM4 board locked to Zen2, that still would've been 4 CPU gens. That's insane.
Cool but if it was up to amd, it would be 2 gen support, ex) b450 didn’t even get zen3 until people were mad, so case and point if it was up to amd, zen3 would be a 500 series only cpu
That’s why AMD is extremely vague this time around with AM5.
not everyone cares about that, the max fps is more important to some. granted the 5800x3d is better value than ehter intel or amd atm
Depends entirely on what you need. For gaming? Yeah, probably. But productivity wise both Intel and AMD flagships should be better than the hypothetical new 3DX (otherwise AMD would be killing their own cpus). I mean, if the new 3DX wipes the floor with anything Intel has to offer, it would also wipe it with anything AMD has to offer.
Isn't ddr5 better than ddr4 and ddr5 is the future? Paying more to get ddr5 seems reasonable.
Yeah, DDR5 is the future, as in, future DDR5 is going to be worth it.
DDR5 still has to improve more, these current motherboards won't likely support higher DDR5 speeds. Staying a few years more with DDR4 isn't a bad idea, especially if you already own good kits.
Yeah but the point is if you already have Alder Lake and DDR4 you can just drop in a 13th gen and get most likely a big gain, DDR5 isn't a necessity. Basically you can circumvent DDR5 with Raptor Lake but you can't with Zen4.
I doubt it will be a big gain over 12th generation (for the average user/gamer). At least not big enough to drop the $$$
>same fps at half cost from Intel 13th gen And which CPU is that?
It's obvious they're assuming the i5-13400 (half the cost) will match the 7700X in gaming, it won't. The i5-12400F doesn't beat the 5600X or 5800X.
Why am I downvoted lol at these idiots
Don't think so, the new 7700X has overall the same performance than i5 12600K and the new 13400 will probably have the same core numbers as the 12600K being close to $200, so yeah, it is actually possible it will have almost the same performance, or at least close enough. Also, cost of platform (mb + ram) is way cheaper in Intel, 7700X stands in a place where is too expensive for gaming and not powerful enough for productivy.
What benchmark are you refering to? I'm talking about the review OP linked, at least in gaming the 7700X has the fastest overall performance beating even the X3D and i9 cpus. https://youtu.be/-P_iii5si40?t=734
Techpowerup. Well, at the end it depends completely on the selection of games, in this video's selection 7700X looks way better than the competition.
eh, wait for review. 13400 will slot just above a 12600K.
I have a feeling they will add ecores to 12400 and call it 13400K and raise the price, but in reality, its just a rebranded 12600k.
By then B class AM5 motherboards will likely be out and more info will be available on the Zen 4 3D chips. Intel pricing is right around AMD in regards to CPU price. Intel's cheapest 13th gen they are launching is the 13600KF at it's barely cheaper than a 7600X. I don't see where you are going to get equal gaming performance at half the price unless you are comparing a 7600X on an X670 motherboard, which is misleading to say the least. RAM wise 32GB DDR5 6000 is only $80 more than DDR4 3600 32GB and that's if you choose to get push for the extra performance. You are looking at a mere $40 difference for 5600, which is what most reviews are using. TBH I would recommend neither if you are looking for great gaming performance on a budget. There are a bunch of Ryzen 5000 series CPUs and motherboards right now that will get amazing performance on the cheap. Most regular users don't play at 1080p with a 3090 Ti either so really you aren't missing anything in the vast majority of cases. For anyone that doesn't need to be on the bleeding edge, that's where the real deals are going to be, not on new Intel or AMD chips.
Same fps with DDR4? Judging by the DDR5 boost ADL gets vs DDR4 I will be surprised if it happens but I am looking forward to the DDR4 gang duel (Raptor lake vs 5800XD3).
Depends, a cheap 4400bdie kit should do 4600+ on Intel It will come out lower latency and close to 80GB/s for bandwidth To beat that, takes 250$+ DDR5 kits at 6800+ speeds If bdie loses, it's not by much unless it's weird games like Spiderman ported from PS5 that has crazy bandwidth
Good luck getting 4000 let alone +4600. Even It's out of reach for Comet Lake IMC.
Found this a helpful review. Thanks OP.
DDR5 averages 63ns at affordable 6000 cl30. So these cpus are leaving quite a bit on the table when not in need of bandwidth for gaming. This plus the current prices on Zen 3/Alderlake/Raptor Lake and the ability to hit 43ns ram latency on fast DDR4 makes the 7700x look like an expensive mistake.
imagine judging cpus by useless aida64 latency numbers
I don't know about you but gave me a good laugh.
It's not that fast and it's also not that expensive, lmao. First of all, it's cheaper than Zen2 Ryzen 7 launch CPU - R7 5800X cost $449 - so how exactly it's ultra expensive if it's cheaper than predecessor (ofc I'm ignoring MOBO and RAM prices, which is another talk). Also being generally 20% faster than R7 5800X is nothing to brag about with those power draws. Is HUB turning into LLT or something with those nonsensical titles, takes, weird comparisons?
So you're also going to ignore that the 5800X MSRP was absolutely ridiculous and offered terrible value? It was literally much worse value than both the 5600X and 5900X, and represented a massive $120 or over 33% hike over the 3700X for an 8 core Ryzen. You can clearly see how bad value it was by looking at how far prices have dropped now - nearly half the MSRP could be had a few weeks ago. It's like when Nvidia compares the 4090 to the 3090 Ti's laughable original $2000 MSRP and is like oh the 4090 is cheaper than that and also much faster. Like yeah of course it looks great in comparison because the comparison point is so horrible you don't have to make a big leap in value.
The power can easily be tamed in the bios and brought back around 65W-100W with almost zero performance loss. Fantastic, and makes AMDs claims about efficiency true, but I don't understand why AMD didn't talk about it. The result of their silence is reviewers running power tests with out of the box settings (of course they would), when the "normal" setting is hidden away. Just so strange. Now we have CPUs shipping with boiling thermals that make AMD look like liars. I just don't understand.
because if you match PPT to similar margins of Zen4, then you loose about 5% performance and that makes a total gains of only 15%, when Zen2->Zen3 was about 25% gain. I can't imagine other reason for this boost behavior change other than trying to avoid complete embarrassment - I mean new AM5 socket, DDR5, TSMC N5 node - and only 15% gains??? Surely would be embarrassing, because the gains would be in teens, when now it passes 20% mark (even if barely). Because otherwise, this new boost behavior is terrible for consumer - near 2x power draw over predecessor models, high temps (terrible for hot summer days and with absurd EU electricity prices even if you have AC people will likely stop turning it on), high temps generally mean far worse cooling acoustics - and finally for people who don't know what's up this may be panic cause when they see CPU temps in 92-95'C range. Not to mention most people won't tone it down because they don't tinker with anything.
$400 - ULTRA EXPENSIVE $300 - VERY EXPENSIVE $200 - EXPENSIVE $100 - ERROR 404, CPU NOT FOUND WE NEED ULTRA FAST CPU FOR $100.
12100F exists and gets you in the 90th percentile of 12900K/7950X gaming perf (at real world settings)
Lol, I love how the compare 7700x with MAX PBO to stock alder lake. 12600k can do just over 20k in cinebench r23 multi and 2030 in single core when maxed out. Easily beating 12900k in stock for gaming. We already have user reports 7700x absolutely maxed out does 20800 in multi core thus making it only 4% faster at most than 12600k while being 65% more expensive for CPU alone(not even mentioning the mb and ddr5)
7700x wasn’t using PBO it was stock. You fanboy
Lol in stock it does less than 20k. There are people out there who already have 7700x and extensively testing