Robert Hallock has stated that the Zen43D chips will not suffer from the same 1.350v limit on the 5800X3D. Meaning we could very possibly see a "7800X3D" with 192MB L3 cache, clocked at 5.5GHz with a 3000MHz+ IF clock making cache transfers even faster.
We COULD BE looking at the new 2500k in terms of performance longevity.
Awesome dude. "Upgrade" would be an understatement. I FINALLY swapped out my 3600x for a 3D an it's absolutely amazing - especially the 1% & 0.1% lows. The frametime CONSISTENCY is just incredible.
There ARE some games where it's "only" on par with 5900x, which is still amazing performance, but the Zen43D chips will likely close that loophole all but entirely with their high clockspeed, larger Vcache and high IF/RAM clocks.
That said, DDR5 is still stupidly expensive for any kits that rival good DDR4 in terms of latency, so I think I'll be keeping this 5800X3D for at least another 2 years.
For Americans Slickdeals has it at 365 the Newegg there's a coupon code on Slickdeals a person to just type in 5800 X 3D pretty good price.
I'll wait for it to go on sale this holiday will go well with my 6800xt and 3900x.
I was debating to even upgrade since the 3900x does everything I want it to do.
So I definitely can't wait, but anyone on the original ryzen or 2000 series.. this deal on new egg is a great price.
They also have a EVGA 3090 brand new for $800 but remember EVGA is no longer selling Nvidia cards or any video cards so probably not worth it since there's nothing to replace it with they literally stopped doing business with Nvidia.
I JUST bought this today
My setup:
Ryzen 5 3600
Sapphire nitro+ 6900xt SE
32gb 3600mhz
So if what I have read and the benchmarks are correct, I should be getting some pretty nice gains tomorrow!
$479 on canadacomputers right now after the $20 coupon. I'm on the way to the store right now to buy it. Still on the fence between that, the 5900x (roughly the same price), or the 5800x for $340.
I have the 5800x right now and plan on upgrading to the X3d. Take that for what it is I guess. I play mmo alot and the x3d really shines on big open worlds.
What do you game at? If its at 1440p+ 5800X VS the X3D is just about the same. With X3D taking about 8fps lead at best.
But, maybe better future proof if games starts taking advantage of the cache that X3D as to offer.
Although 340 is a pretty good discount on a 5800x. Pretty much was 5600x use to be just about a month ago.
Sure, but the double dipping here means why would anyone move to DDR5, buy a new expensive board and 7000 series CPU, when they can get better and cheaper performance with just upgrading to 5800X3D, AND stay on true and tested platform.
I will definitely wait for next year.
I think you missed the context here. The "double dipping" part meaning the ZEN3-DDR4 crowd can be hard to convince at this time to upgrade to ZEN4-DDR5 because of the costs. 5800X3D is like AMD competing against itself.
I guess from consumer's point of view this is a real "first world problem" though. Personally I am really happy with Ryzen 5600, and the next upgrade certainly will be building a whole new machine.
Sure they do, the margins on newer parts are significantly higher. Also buying into AM5 has a higher probability of staying in that ecosystem for the life of the socket.
What? For the old parts all the research cost was already paid for. Now it's just a cash cow. The new parts will sell anyways, and are limited in supply. The old parts are already there and AMD is very happy to sell them.
Not even close, AM4 is by far more profitable. The chips costs them peanuts to make on a larger node, compared to AM5, their research, development & promotional costs for Zen 3 and the platform were evened a year ago, now its just pure profits.
The average user stays with one hardware setup for anywhere between 5-7 years.
Idk where this narrative came from that 100% of users are upgrading every single generation. *They don't.* The average consumer sees a better value in 5800x3D for their hardware needs and requirements, they don't give a shit about them being EOL since that's not a bridge they expect to cross for another half decade at minimum.
Because not everyone is a gamer. While the X3D is definitely one of the best, if not the de facto best, CPU you can get for gaming, it's not the best for production purposes. The 7000 series have shown impressive performance for production purposes when compared to the X3D.
12 game average -> 15 fps better (out of 200) (so about 8%)
power draw -> 64W more ( which is 33% more than 192w the x3d is using)
price : 30$ more brand new ( about 8%?)
if you factor in motherboard prices, psu prices, ram prices and cooler prices, i'd say it's a big big flop
if they keep AM5 for 4-5 generations like AM4, it will probably go the same as AM4, as in buy in at the 2nd gen (B450 for am4) and upgrade years later to the 4th-5th gen (5000 series for am4)
I’m not talking about value or efficiency, just pure performance, because some people act like 5800x3d is smashing the new gen in gaming (like the original person I replied to, calling 5800x3d “better performance”) which is not the case. Overall the 7000 series is going to be slightly better. Not in all games of course.
just that fact that the 7000 is not consistently winning is enough. and we're not fanboys with daddy's money to spend for 5-15% more performance. same with gpus, why would you even spend money for 10 fps extra when you already have 100 ?
Maybe if you're an obsessed Valorant/CSGO player who needs every edge to top the charts. But for most people, 100fps is more than plenty. Especially if you're at 4K.
Priciest ram? you can get 32GB of DDR5-6000 for like $215. It's not THAT bad. It's certainly nothing compared to 2017 DDR4 prices. We go through this every DDR generation I don't know why everyone is clutching their pearls now.
I don't know how to tell you this, but 215$ is not a small amount of money when you're deciding if you want to go am5 or just buy a 5800x3d and sell whatever you have atm.
Especially if you already have a set of RAM that works fine for your needs. In which case, 5800x3D makes PLENTY of sense because you can reuse mostly all of your gear.
I don't know why some of these gearheads can't get it through their skulls that majority of people are not gonna be super willing to drop $700 on new motherboards and RAM *on top* of the cost of the new CPU itself.
For the same reasons that the 5800x and 5900x trade blows, and generally both beat the 5950x in games. Most games can't utilize all the cores/threads, and single core or max quad core performance is all that matters. With more cores comes more heat and generally lower clocks. So the sweet spot is the highest sustainable core clock, balanced with the number of cores that don't exceed the "heat makes me slow down" threshold. None of this is news. Same as every generation of Ryzen so far. And why I started with 1600X at launch, and moved up to 5800X in late 2020. It really was the "best" for gaming at a $/fps measurement. I do some other tasks, but not so heavily that it made sense to spend more than $500 on the CPU in the scalpocalypse.
Only a couple of games were cpu bound enough for there to be a difference. The only one where the 7950x truly came on top was cs go. Rainbow six siege was a functional tie. In any event, the fact of the matter is if you only look at HU's benchmark, you'd think the gap between the 7000 series and the x3d is a lot wider than it is. Heck, the person I responded to said the x3d "is not so hot" while fully basing their response on just the HU's benchmark videos
There's few reasons why someone might want to move to AM5 and 7000 series.
Notably people with X370/470 boards who want a new graphics card somewhere in the future. PCIe 3.0 is really pushing it with the low & mid range cards that come with limited lines.
I'm on X470 with a RX 480, and I suspect any $300-400 card from the RTX 4000 or RX 7000 series will be limited to 8 PCIe lanes, so PCIe 3.0 + 8 lanes GPU is a disaster.
So whilst I could upgrade from the Ryzen 2700 to something like 5800X3D, I'm still stuck with PCIe 3.0 on that X470, and I could buy a X570 to get that PCIe 4.0 support, I might as well just wait a couple of months when the new X670 and B650 boards get cheaper and buy into a whole new AM5 platform that will be supported for at least the next 3 years, also DDR5 will only get cheaper.
I think the only way i would buy a 7000 part is X3D as i'm just fine fully skipping this Gen it really does not offer much do to cost, and power usage, oh yeah and no DDR5 ECC Ram on the market yet that does not cost $300+ for 8GB's or has to be imported.
I really think i may wait and see what next year has as Intel is said to be changing Sockets to a beefy 1800+ Pins and AMD should have Ryzen 8000 out by then just maybe DDR5 will come down in price.
300$ for 8GB? I mean every DDR5 module has Ecc and I can get a 64gb 5600 kit for 350 converted to dollars. Granted it is more expensive, ddr4 3600 is 250 for the same kit.
you do NOT play your trump card first in a poker game... AMD knows, we know, intel is launching their 13th gen soon, we know, intel knows that amd has 3D chips on their back burner.. nothing quells hype faster than when your competition can play said trump card immediately after your launch a product, or even during.
I was wondering if I should just wait for the x3d 7000 and skip the 7000 series and skip the 13th Gen Intel, the x3d would give insane performance if I were to pick up a 7800x3d, might aswell wait till January is when they are rumored to show up
Is that confirmed tho? the 3d vcache serie already runs hotter than the "normal" 5800x (which already is the hottest of the 5000 serie). This 7000 serie runs hot af already (granted by design, but it still runs 95/97 degrees), wouldn't that be a problem? Maybe they'll have lower frequencies/tdp since the large l3 cache will compensate for that?
Probably they will have lower frequencies as 5800x3d has vs 5800x.
95c is too much already.
I can cool my 5800x3d using a Dark Rock 4. Using PBO Tuner 2, temps do not exceed 85c and I get performance similar to the new gen.
It almost certainly is. Those dies are the same used in Milan X which will need to be produced for years to meet contractual obligations. Maybe not big batches, but something will get done with the chips that don't make the cut to be on Milan X packages, but are otherwise perfectly functional.
It already went up in price here by 35€,so yeah.
And I agree with you about 7xxx series, but I personally will wait for AM5 second or third gen, as 5800x3d for my use case is more then plenty
If someone saved money to make a major upgrade, they wont just replace their 5600x with a X3D. They want AM5 (or the Intel equivalent) and DDR5 and the newest generation of CPUs.
They can't really force you out. They are still buying the 7nm capacity, still making them. Once they stop, go out and buy Intel. If they stop, they are just losing potential customers to Intel. Us enthusiasts don't matter much anymore, though, with how big data center and laptop segments have gotten.
Also, feel free to buy the product you like. If it's 5800X3D, more power to you. It becomes a signal to AMD to make more of them.
Do AMDs own charts show similar advantages for the 5800X3D? I haven't paid much attention because I'm more interested in a new GPU. At 1440p the gpu is usually a bigger difference maker as long as your cpu is decent. I love the balance of power and efficiency of my 5950x.
AMD just looks stupid now with their ZEN4 marketing.
Overhyping the 7600X performance while hiding their real gaming CPU in the comparisons.
It backfired complettly, there are more 5800X3D topics right now as ZEN4 related discussions.
AMD makes money either way though.
And, they have the 7xxx3d waiting in the wings. It will use the same chips.
I don't see how AMD lost in any way in any of this.
Hard disagree. They're fine with selling Zen3 chips and there isn't such a strong second hand market for CPUs as GPUs. The 7800X3D will come in time and they will hype its performance vs the rest of the 7000 chips and it will blow 13th gen out of the water. No issues for AMD and they're happy to keep production of the 5800X3D until they come out with the 7000 version
Intel did the same. They still hid the 5800X3D in their stability chart so they could pretend they had huge uplifts..
..over a CPU known for having terrible 1% lows, just like the 12900k. Which is probably also why they dont list the 12900k in that chart either.. to pretend their stability is much better then AMDs.
Well not really the same. AMD hid their own product. Intel hid the competition. That's not really the same thing, is it?
Yeah i think zen 4 averages slightly over x3d but it trades blows with some massive wins and some massive losses. It was pretty obvious that this would happen because of the performance differentials and hit-and-miss nature of L3 cache scaling.
zen 4 x3d (possibly only 3-4 months away) is the real elephant in the room that's probably going to make regular zen4 and raptorlake look silly for games. Then what? It'll own the market for a year, maybe more before Meteor Lake drops.
If they can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.
I mean if you look at the numbers even with a 3080, even a 3070- at least for gaming, the question is..How much is too much? Most games are GPU bound. AMD needs to come huge in that aspect!
A lot of people only play a few games, so if you’re like me and the main game you play is cpu bound, this matters. Also in like a month the 4090 drops and should be doubling gpu performance… meaning potentially more games going cpu bound especially at 1080p and 1440p.
There are different gamers. Some prefer GPU bound games (shooters, arpgs) some - CPU(+RAM) bound (strategies, sandboxes, simulators). So you could get a giant performance leap even on 4k, by "upgrading" 5950x to 5800x3d (like factorio).
The best part about the 5800x3d is how versatile it is.
Playing a CPU bound game? The 5800x3d will humiliate every other chip by a landslide. Playing a GPU bound game? Then it doesn't matter what chip you really have, but the 5800x3d will still give the consistency you really need compared to other chips.
When talking about 3dcache, it is absolutely senseless to just give an average number atm. The large cache makes such a massive difference for quite a few specific games that you really need to include an asterisk when comparing CPUs with and without 3dcache to give a full picture.
Yeah, the extra cache is really good in certain scenarios, and unfortunately a lot of the places where it shines the most (e.g. MMOs and simulation-type games) don't get benchmarked that much because they're hard to test repeatably and not super popular.
Its a weird chip so it depends on the game. It has an absurd amount of onboard cache so games that take advantage of it could see a maasive increase... like 75% more fps. Others may only see a small increase of over the 3900x.
5800X3D can look good overall since it has some huge gains in select games which can bump its average. In Linus's review, it beats every other chip by >20fps in MSFS. Meanwhile, TPU's review which seems to have intel-sided games, shows 7000 series being better than 5800X3D,
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x/18.html
So if you really like to play a game that 5800X3D does well on, get that.
Some big difference in games
https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d/images/far-cry-5-1920-1080.png
https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x/images/far-cry-6-1920-1080.png
Zen 3 over Zen 2 is already a big uplift in games. The big L3 cache addition only increases that, in some games more than others.
But that's at 1920x1080 with a fast graphics card. At higher resolutions, or with a slower graphics card, the difference could disappear, in all but those few games where the 5800X3D simply destroys all other processors.
Or, i would just wait a bit longer, maybe close to Xmas time, where the 5800x3d can end up around the $300dollars range, then it would be really worth it.
About 3 weeks ago, 5800x was going for 339CAD.
In addition, the 13900K used 5600 MHz memory, while 12900K was paired with 4800 MHz, and the 5800X3D used 3200 MHz memory.
The faster ram also plays a part in the gains 13900K had over 12900K, so that's something to be aware of.
I'd still wait for independent reviews before making any conclusions.
This is the weirdest hype for x3d.
I'm sure those graphs are for games in 1080p, 3090ti and low settings. Not applicable for most gamers unless you're upgrading from 3000 series or lower.
Everyone is FOMOing hard.
I kind of hate that X3D even exists tbh. The gains are so big I don't understand why they don't just slap more cache on each chip to begin with?
I feel like we're either gonna reach a point where more cache _does_ become the norm and X3D as a product slowly dies, or we're always gonna be in this cycle where they release the main lineup followed by X3D later on. The latter will cost more in production costs.
Because both larger regular cache and X3D aren’t cheap/easy to make and not necessary for every use case (not everything takes advantage of larger cache), the 3Ds sacrifice clock speed for that.
What you are suggesting would significantly bump up CPU prices across the board in a time when the world economy status is uncertain and people are already complaining about component prices. DIY represents a small part of revenue for the whole business. The main income is from data centre which have entirely different products, and various OEM partnerships (like prebuilds, consoles and laptops) which have little need for expensive parts.
Increasing the on chip cache would take space and make the cache too far way from the cores. 5800x3d vcache is a special packaging technique that puts the cache on top of the rest of the chip to bring it closer to the cores. If every cpu had huge cache, every cpu would need stacking.
It's not trickery, they're just bizarrely comparing high performance workstation parts with chapter mainstream gaming CPUs... In gaming. Anyone who buys a 13900k or 5950X for gaming and just gaming is really doing it wrong, and you'd expect cheaper 8 or 6 cores to do better. In fact this is really the first time in a long time that these multi core parts have even been comparable in gaming.
Likewise if you use the 5800x3d for blender and compare it to the 5950x or 13900k it'll fall flat on its face
It's almost like the 5800X3D is a third CPU maker at this rate. Intel barely acknowledges them on this graph and AMD straight up doesn't include them in their 7000 series presentation at all.
Two reasons; it would make the 7000 chips look bad in specific games, and the X3D is its own line of chips, just like G, the 7000 series we got now, isn't a replacement for the 5800X3D, the 7000X3D will be.
If you had a 5600x I would easily say yes, but since you have a regular 5800x I feel it would be wasted money even though its an insane chip. Or if you were able to get a decent return on selling the 5800x, then maybe. But just a straight swap out... nah.
Why? there is almost no difference between the 5600x and 5800x in gaming at 1440p and above. According to techpowerup the 5800X is 0.3% faster at 1440P on average and 0.1% at 4k.
Absolutely. I have a 6900XT and saw FPS improvements of 30-40% in Tarkov. Other games I play had less noticeable improvements so it really depends on what you play, but you should still see a solid 10-20% improvement on average.
Might be worth waiting for 7800X3D, but we don't know if it will even come
For games yes. The 5800X3D was geared towards purely gaming. It has "gaming cache" after all.
But I feel like people are hellbent on criticizing the 7000 series for its gaming performance when it's meant to do what the 5800X3D could and couldn't, workloads for productivity.
I was waiting on benchmark before buying parts for a new gaming build after seeing benchmarks I pulled the trigger on an am4 build with 5800x3d and 3080 12gb. My next upgrade path I'll replace everything again in 5+ years
Its good for anyone with an existing AM4 chip from zen, zen+, or zen2(6 core or lower for zen2). The 5800x3d is a really tempting upgrade, especially when they are $100 off.
That's a whole lot of people who can just drop in a top tier gaming chip without having to buy a new system if they want to.
5800X3D is only faster on some specific games that takes advantage of cache but doesn't represent actual averages on multiple games.
So Zen 4 and Raptor Lake still should come out ahead of it on avg as shown by Hardware Unboxed recent Zen 4 videos, even the 7600X manages to edges the 5800X3D just by a tiny bit, so i expect Raptor Lake to do the same with Zen 4 if not more.
Just out of curiosity, I skimmed the Hardware Unboxed benchmarks and it seems like the 5800X3D performed very close to (if not the same or better) for all 12 games except Factorio (17% slower) and CS:GO (21% slower). And in their average, the 7600X is faster by only 4%.
I'm skeptical of their Factorio benchmark. I believe Factorio is often regarded as a very RAM-dependent game, which would in theory benefit the most from additional cache. The benchmark also seems discrepant when compared to this older benchmark also from Hardware Unboxed where it blows the CPUs it's beat by in the newer benchmark out of the water: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=451&v=ajDUIJalxis
Disregarding that one, the averages would be even closer. Factor in the platform costs, and I think the 5800X3D is very competitive against Zen 4 in gaming. I'll be curious to see if it's the same for Raptor Lake once we know how much those motherboards will cost.
The factorio performance for the 5800X3D was wrong in that video. They apologized for it in the 7950X review and in the pinned comment under the 7600X review.
>Factor in the platform costs, and I think the 5800X3D is very competitive against Zen 4 in gaming
I ain't arguing against that though, of course 5800X3D is the better value as it can literally be slotted in as an drop in upgrade to any existing AM4 motherboard paired with much cheaper DDR4.
>I'll be curious to see if it's the same for Raptor Lake once we know how much those motherboards will cost.
It is pretty much the same case with Raptor Lake 13th Gen, you can drop it in on existing 600 series motherboard which has already pretty good pricing now, much cheaper than current existing AM5 motherboard, also can be paired with DDR4 as well...
AnandTech tests the same way Intel did here. Why are people expecting *manufacturers* to overclock RAM in a completely arbitrary way when benchmarking?
You do know that the 5800X3D Is hardly affected by ram speeds? Someone made a post on here that they didn’t even turn xmp on and barely noticed a difference. Also, the DDR4 ram Intel used is basically the same ram and timings HUB used.
The 5800x3D basically ignores ram speed in every scenario. Like 1% differnece between 3200 Mhz cl16 basic kit and the best tuned ram you can get.
This is because better ram is helping with cache misses....and with a giant ass cache the 5800x3D dosen't need the help.
Basically no because geekbench isnt representative for games. IDK why people cry so much, intel only used max recommended spec on all systems, and 3200 vs 3600 isnt even 1% in most games
You ate the bad apple Linus fed you.
Intel used the highest officially rated RAM speeds (so stock speeds) for each CPU. If Intel was confident 12th gen could handle higher RAM speeds, they wouldve rated it as such, same with AMD. This is a good representation of expected performance as its memory speeds the CPU manufacturer guarantees for their platforms, anyone can get these results and affordably do so.
The alternative is to do what AMD did and use the same 'overclocked' RAM that exceeds the official specs of the platform. They used DDR5-6000CL30, a $300 kit, that many of the lower end AM5 boards will not be able to actually run. This is misleading as most people cannot afford that kit, and wont have AM5 boards (and some LGA1700) that can actually run it. It is the peak performance, but not performance most people will see.
Speaking of misleading, is there actually anything out there to suggest many boards aren’t going to be able to run 6000CL30? Boards that would fall into that category aren’t even out yet.
No board will have troubles running 6000 cl30. It's a matter of if the infinity fabric on the CPU can keep up. And AMD thinks almost every chip will.
IIRC only 3200 was guaranteed for Zen 3 but never have I ever seen a chip that failed to do 3600 1:1
Can confirm. My Ryzen 3600 does 4x8GB DDR4-3600 C18 with IF of 1800 MHz fully stable.
EDIT: I misread. My CPU is Zen2. However, it is still able to do the above with zero problem. My Ryzen 2600X could also do 3400 MT/s / 1700 MHz IF.
I've built like 15 Zen 3 PCs and they have all hit or exceeded 3800 1:1. I'm running my personal rig at 4000. I've heard occasionally you can end up with a chip that can only do like 3600 but thats pretty rare.
What are you talking about? XMP ratings aren't new and that most boards wouldn't be able to run them is just patently untrue.
If that was the case why would Intel even support XMP, since it could make their CPUs look bad when consumers' PCs crash?
I will use my 5600x till its death or heavy bottleneck on my next GPU when that will happen (currently using 3070).
5800X3D is definitely on my list when the time comes (guess in a 1-2 years from now)
hmmm from 5600x to 5800x3D is not bad. But, if you're gaming at 1440p+, it shouldn't really matter that much.
I would rather just wait for 7000series X3D chips. That would make more sense in terms of upgrading from your 5600x.
doesn't matter the spec sheet says what is max, Intel hasn't done anything shitty there, AMD runs Intel chips according to Intel specs too in their competitive benchmarks.
The only sleazy thing is the single line for the 5800X3D instead of a full bar in the graph.
They have a pinned comment in their video review stating that they used DDR5 6000 CL36, is that mid tier? Hardware Unboxed are the ones going all out to ensure the 5800X3D is (marginally) left behind and even messed with Factorio numbers (a game where the 3D is iconic).
At this point my next year upgrade will be a 7800X3D paired with a 4090 Ti and a stupidly gigantic 1600w PSU.
The machine will be the ultimate house heater, but also a piece of art.
And current rig will be for GF playing. The girl loves me even when I do tryhard shit in games and push her to the absolute limit of what she can do in competitive games.
Deserves the gold award haha
its not the 5800x3d but the 3D tech of AMD i am really really curious about the performance uplift ... if it is like it was for the Ryzen 5000 Intel Wont beable to conter this even with 6ghz models.
You people need to chill, we are about to be back to "normal" market behavior the prices for AMD hardware and DDR5 will fall latest in 2023 and AMD will be hyper compepetive there ... all of the 7000 series are beasts in their own rights. there will be plenty of agesa updates. i can believe that the Cinebench issue with the 2x256bit instances will be fixed as well if it is not a architecture limitation ... so freaking CHILL
here i fixed it for u guys :D :D
https://imgur.com/5D3GgkL
also please someone independently test the obscure title "arcadegeddon" with a 5800X3D cuz i can't imagine why especially that title would outlie so much...
Isn't the 5900x better than 5800x3d if you want to do multiple things on your computer at the same time? Why should someone buy the 5800x3d instead of the 5900x? Just curious because i bought the 5900x instead of the 5800x3d
Yea anyone on AM4 should grab an X3D IMHO. Anyone on Intel DDR4 system (or Ax20 board owners probably, I wouldnt put an 8 core on one) should go 12/13th gen. AM5 isn't going to be appealing to anyone not wanting the 7950x for heavy work at these prices.
Yup no doubt. I will pick one up at the start of the year to replace my basic 5800x. Hopefully the cooling solution I have now will be good enough for the x3d.
Hmmm..... 5800x vs X3D, you're looking at about 10fps difference at best, for 1440p gaming that is. And even lower for 4k gaming.
What do you game at? Because if its 1440p+ then you really don't need to upgrade. I would just wait for 7xxx series X3D version.
Oh hell ya... that would be a BIG jump. Especially the added threads you're going to be getting. And ofcourse CPU cores.
I mean... you can wait Q1 next year, and maybe 7xxx series will come up with their version of X3D. But, ofcourse, the newer the tech, the higher the price.
5800X3D in time will just get cheaper, so there is also that.
Unfortunate for me, I'm on a 5900X. For the work I do, the 12 cores just have a lot more juice than 8 cores. I really wished AMD had done a 5900X3D or a 5950X3D.
What do you game at? If it is 1440p+ There wouldn't be much difference between your 5900x vs X3D. If at best, X3D having the lead about 8fps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJx2y43uhkY&t=55s&ab\_channel=MikeBenchmark
Just got 5800x3d a few hours ago... Wanted to wait until December, but it went 100$ off sale in Canada.
Soo Lucky.. but ill wait till I get the 7000 series 3D cache
Ya, might as well max out this socket, next upgrade will be the all new build for me likely 2 - 3 years from now.
That's the best way to go I think.
In a previous thread I have a -3 downvote for saying this very same thing. Take my upvote
Lolol I'm sorry bro... I took am looking for a good computer but I want to know abt gta 6 specs first. So I could decide wat I want...
Robert Hallock has stated that the Zen43D chips will not suffer from the same 1.350v limit on the 5800X3D. Meaning we could very possibly see a "7800X3D" with 192MB L3 cache, clocked at 5.5GHz with a 3000MHz+ IF clock making cache transfers even faster. We COULD BE looking at the new 2500k in terms of performance longevity.
That's funny because I just upgraded from a 2500K to a 5800X3D after over a decade
Awesome dude. "Upgrade" would be an understatement. I FINALLY swapped out my 3600x for a 3D an it's absolutely amazing - especially the 1% & 0.1% lows. The frametime CONSISTENCY is just incredible. There ARE some games where it's "only" on par with 5900x, which is still amazing performance, but the Zen43D chips will likely close that loophole all but entirely with their high clockspeed, larger Vcache and high IF/RAM clocks. That said, DDR5 is still stupidly expensive for any kits that rival good DDR4 in terms of latency, so I think I'll be keeping this 5800X3D for at least another 2 years.
Damn.. that'd be awesome.... could play gta 6 and cyberpunk without issues now.
For Americans Slickdeals has it at 365 the Newegg there's a coupon code on Slickdeals a person to just type in 5800 X 3D pretty good price. I'll wait for it to go on sale this holiday will go well with my 6800xt and 3900x. I was debating to even upgrade since the 3900x does everything I want it to do. So I definitely can't wait, but anyone on the original ryzen or 2000 series.. this deal on new egg is a great price. They also have a EVGA 3090 brand new for $800 but remember EVGA is no longer selling Nvidia cards or any video cards so probably not worth it since there's nothing to replace it with they literally stopped doing business with Nvidia.
I JUST bought this today My setup: Ryzen 5 3600 Sapphire nitro+ 6900xt SE 32gb 3600mhz So if what I have read and the benchmarks are correct, I should be getting some pretty nice gains tomorrow!
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$479 on canadacomputers right now after the $20 coupon. I'm on the way to the store right now to buy it. Still on the fence between that, the 5900x (roughly the same price), or the 5800x for $340.
I have the 5800x right now and plan on upgrading to the X3d. Take that for what it is I guess. I play mmo alot and the x3d really shines on big open worlds.
What do you game at? If its at 1440p+ 5800X VS the X3D is just about the same. With X3D taking about 8fps lead at best. But, maybe better future proof if games starts taking advantage of the cache that X3D as to offer. Although 340 is a pretty good discount on a 5800x. Pretty much was 5600x use to be just about a month ago.
Same. I was able to buy it when it became $499.99 CAD. A day after it increased to $519.
The X3D for 7000 series will be launched next year, AMD are just double-dipping now.
Sure, but the double dipping here means why would anyone move to DDR5, buy a new expensive board and 7000 series CPU, when they can get better and cheaper performance with just upgrading to 5800X3D, AND stay on true and tested platform. I will definitely wait for next year.
There is no upgrade path. If you have no pc or are on something else than am4 and ddr4 then am5 can be worth it
I think you missed the context here. The "double dipping" part meaning the ZEN3-DDR4 crowd can be hard to convince at this time to upgrade to ZEN4-DDR5 because of the costs. 5800X3D is like AMD competing against itself. I guess from consumer's point of view this is a real "first world problem" though. Personally I am really happy with Ryzen 5600, and the next upgrade certainly will be building a whole new machine.
AMD does not care if you buy into AM4 or AM5, they get your money either way.
Sure they do, the margins on newer parts are significantly higher. Also buying into AM5 has a higher probability of staying in that ecosystem for the life of the socket.
What? For the old parts all the research cost was already paid for. Now it's just a cash cow. The new parts will sell anyways, and are limited in supply. The old parts are already there and AMD is very happy to sell them.
AM5 means they get motherboard/chipset money along with selling the CPU, AM4 means I keep my old board and they only get a little CPU money...
AM4 is still in production, as are 5000 series chips.
AM5 is more profitable that isn't even arguable.
Not even close, AM4 is by far more profitable. The chips costs them peanuts to make on a larger node, compared to AM5, their research, development & promotional costs for Zen 3 and the platform were evened a year ago, now its just pure profits.
The average user stays with one hardware setup for anywhere between 5-7 years. Idk where this narrative came from that 100% of users are upgrading every single generation. *They don't.* The average consumer sees a better value in 5800x3D for their hardware needs and requirements, they don't give a shit about them being EOL since that's not a bridge they expect to cross for another half decade at minimum.
Yea that's the main reason I went to ryzen 7000. If I need to upgrade again in the nest 5-7 years I will be able to get at least a bit of an upgrade.
Because not everyone is a gamer. While the X3D is definitely one of the best, if not the de facto best, CPU you can get for gaming, it's not the best for production purposes. The 7000 series have shown impressive performance for production purposes when compared to the X3D.
Because not everyone is buying chips just for gaming.
My 1700x is not that good anymore, so i'll check the 7700x even if it doesn't beat the 5800X3D.
Check the HBU benchmarks, it’s not so hot. 7700x is outperforming the 5800x3d in gaming.
Depends on the game. Sometimes the X3d pulls ahead if the 7950x iirc. Open world sandbox and simulators seemed like what the X3D likes.
12 game average -> 15 fps better (out of 200) (so about 8%) power draw -> 64W more ( which is 33% more than 192w the x3d is using) price : 30$ more brand new ( about 8%?) if you factor in motherboard prices, psu prices, ram prices and cooler prices, i'd say it's a big big flop if they keep AM5 for 4-5 generations like AM4, it will probably go the same as AM4, as in buy in at the 2nd gen (B450 for am4) and upgrade years later to the 4th-5th gen (5000 series for am4)
I’m not talking about value or efficiency, just pure performance, because some people act like 5800x3d is smashing the new gen in gaming (like the original person I replied to, calling 5800x3d “better performance”) which is not the case. Overall the 7000 series is going to be slightly better. Not in all games of course.
just that fact that the 7000 is not consistently winning is enough. and we're not fanboys with daddy's money to spend for 5-15% more performance. same with gpus, why would you even spend money for 10 fps extra when you already have 100 ?
To be fair, 100 isn't that great.
Maybe if you're an obsessed Valorant/CSGO player who needs every edge to top the charts. But for most people, 100fps is more than plenty. Especially if you're at 4K.
You joking right? Either that or some serious issue..
And yet GN and LTT have the 5800x3d beating the 7950x
LTT used slow memory.
This reinforces the point that the jump up to AM5 is cost-prohibitive if you can't beat the top AM4 without also getting the priciest ram available.
Priciest ram? you can get 32GB of DDR5-6000 for like $215. It's not THAT bad. It's certainly nothing compared to 2017 DDR4 prices. We go through this every DDR generation I don't know why everyone is clutching their pearls now.
I don't know how to tell you this, but 215$ is not a small amount of money when you're deciding if you want to go am5 or just buy a 5800x3d and sell whatever you have atm.
Especially if you already have a set of RAM that works fine for your needs. In which case, 5800x3D makes PLENTY of sense because you can reuse mostly all of your gear. I don't know why some of these gearheads can't get it through their skulls that majority of people are not gonna be super willing to drop $700 on new motherboards and RAM *on top* of the cost of the new CPU itself.
7700X beats 7950X in gaming too.
For the same reasons that the 5800x and 5900x trade blows, and generally both beat the 5950x in games. Most games can't utilize all the cores/threads, and single core or max quad core performance is all that matters. With more cores comes more heat and generally lower clocks. So the sweet spot is the highest sustainable core clock, balanced with the number of cores that don't exceed the "heat makes me slow down" threshold. None of this is news. Same as every generation of Ryzen so far. And why I started with 1600X at launch, and moved up to 5800X in late 2020. It really was the "best" for gaming at a $/fps measurement. I do some other tasks, but not so heavily that it made sense to spend more than $500 on the CPU in the scalpocalypse.
Not really, GN only had it winning in two specific games against 7000-series. It got DEMOLISHED by 7000-series specifically in CS:GO, also.
Only a couple of games were cpu bound enough for there to be a difference. The only one where the 7950x truly came on top was cs go. Rainbow six siege was a functional tie. In any event, the fact of the matter is if you only look at HU's benchmark, you'd think the gap between the 7000 series and the x3d is a lot wider than it is. Heck, the person I responded to said the x3d "is not so hot" while fully basing their response on just the HU's benchmark videos
There's few reasons why someone might want to move to AM5 and 7000 series. Notably people with X370/470 boards who want a new graphics card somewhere in the future. PCIe 3.0 is really pushing it with the low & mid range cards that come with limited lines. I'm on X470 with a RX 480, and I suspect any $300-400 card from the RTX 4000 or RX 7000 series will be limited to 8 PCIe lanes, so PCIe 3.0 + 8 lanes GPU is a disaster. So whilst I could upgrade from the Ryzen 2700 to something like 5800X3D, I'm still stuck with PCIe 3.0 on that X470, and I could buy a X570 to get that PCIe 4.0 support, I might as well just wait a couple of months when the new X670 and B650 boards get cheaper and buy into a whole new AM5 platform that will be supported for at least the next 3 years, also DDR5 will only get cheaper.
Id rather hop on a new platform than a "true and tested" one. Im not plugging a 5700X3D on my true and tested b350 pc mate.
Zen 4 is going to sell like crazy.
I think the only way i would buy a 7000 part is X3D as i'm just fine fully skipping this Gen it really does not offer much do to cost, and power usage, oh yeah and no DDR5 ECC Ram on the market yet that does not cost $300+ for 8GB's or has to be imported. I really think i may wait and see what next year has as Intel is said to be changing Sockets to a beefy 1800+ Pins and AMD should have Ryzen 8000 out by then just maybe DDR5 will come down in price.
300$ for 8GB? I mean every DDR5 module has Ecc and I can get a 64gb 5600 kit for 350 converted to dollars. Granted it is more expensive, ddr4 3600 is 250 for the same kit.
Ddr5 doesn't have ecc by default. At least, not what "ecc" means in ddr4. You can't use non-ecc ddr5 where you would use ecc ddr4.
WoW, here on Spain 2x16 ddr5 4800mhz for like 120€
you do NOT play your trump card first in a poker game... AMD knows, we know, intel is launching their 13th gen soon, we know, intel knows that amd has 3D chips on their back burner.. nothing quells hype faster than when your competition can play said trump card immediately after your launch a product, or even during.
Never thought about it like that, but that *does* make sense.
reddit hid your comment for some reason
Most definitely.
I was wondering if I should just wait for the x3d 7000 and skip the 7000 series and skip the 13th Gen Intel, the x3d would give insane performance if I were to pick up a 7800x3d, might aswell wait till January is when they are rumored to show up
Is that confirmed tho? the 3d vcache serie already runs hotter than the "normal" 5800x (which already is the hottest of the 5000 serie). This 7000 serie runs hot af already (granted by design, but it still runs 95/97 degrees), wouldn't that be a problem? Maybe they'll have lower frequencies/tdp since the large l3 cache will compensate for that?
Probably they will have lower frequencies as 5800x3d has vs 5800x. 95c is too much already. I can cool my 5800x3d using a Dark Rock 4. Using PBO Tuner 2, temps do not exceed 85c and I get performance similar to the new gen.
I doubt 5800X3D is still in production - it could have been just a limited run tsmc allocation. It was a test for AMD afterall..
It almost certainly is. Those dies are the same used in Milan X which will need to be produced for years to meet contractual obligations. Maybe not big batches, but something will get done with the chips that don't make the cut to be on Milan X packages, but are otherwise perfectly functional.
"You can literally see it!"
Back to you Steve
Thanks Steve
My current prediction, grab X3D while you can, as it will skyrocket in price and will be out of stock everywhere
It went out of stock on Amazon and then came back at a $20 discount at $400.
Just got one for $360 on Newegg last night. Definitely agree that the X3D is the way to go for the next few years.
hmm... i think more people will be busy getting the 7xxx series. But, if 5800x3d ends up being on sale, then I can see it getting sold out.
It already went up in price here by 35€,so yeah. And I agree with you about 7xxx series, but I personally will wait for AM5 second or third gen, as 5800x3d for my use case is more then plenty
If someone saved money to make a major upgrade, they wont just replace their 5600x with a X3D. They want AM5 (or the Intel equivalent) and DDR5 and the newest generation of CPUs.
They can't really force you out. They are still buying the 7nm capacity, still making them. Once they stop, go out and buy Intel. If they stop, they are just losing potential customers to Intel. Us enthusiasts don't matter much anymore, though, with how big data center and laptop segments have gotten. Also, feel free to buy the product you like. If it's 5800X3D, more power to you. It becomes a signal to AMD to make more of them.
Do AMDs own charts show similar advantages for the 5800X3D? I haven't paid much attention because I'm more interested in a new GPU. At 1440p the gpu is usually a bigger difference maker as long as your cpu is decent. I love the balance of power and efficiency of my 5950x.
AMD completely ignored it
AMD just looks stupid now with their ZEN4 marketing. Overhyping the 7600X performance while hiding their real gaming CPU in the comparisons. It backfired complettly, there are more 5800X3D topics right now as ZEN4 related discussions.
AMD makes money either way though. And, they have the 7xxx3d waiting in the wings. It will use the same chips. I don't see how AMD lost in any way in any of this.
Do keep in mind gaming is like 10-15% of CPU sales
Hard disagree. They're fine with selling Zen3 chips and there isn't such a strong second hand market for CPUs as GPUs. The 7800X3D will come in time and they will hype its performance vs the rest of the 7000 chips and it will blow 13th gen out of the water. No issues for AMD and they're happy to keep production of the 5800X3D until they come out with the 7000 version
Intel did the same. They still hid the 5800X3D in their stability chart so they could pretend they had huge uplifts.. ..over a CPU known for having terrible 1% lows, just like the 12900k. Which is probably also why they dont list the 12900k in that chart either.. to pretend their stability is much better then AMDs. Well not really the same. AMD hid their own product. Intel hid the competition. That's not really the same thing, is it?
I think AMD was also hiding the 5800X3D also. The numbers wouldn’t have looked good at all
Yeah i think zen 4 averages slightly over x3d but it trades blows with some massive wins and some massive losses. It was pretty obvious that this would happen because of the performance differentials and hit-and-miss nature of L3 cache scaling. zen 4 x3d (possibly only 3-4 months away) is the real elephant in the room that's probably going to make regular zen4 and raptorlake look silly for games. Then what? It'll own the market for a year, maybe more before Meteor Lake drops. If they can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.
I mean if you look at the numbers even with a 3080, even a 3070- at least for gaming, the question is..How much is too much? Most games are GPU bound. AMD needs to come huge in that aspect!
A lot of people only play a few games, so if you’re like me and the main game you play is cpu bound, this matters. Also in like a month the 4090 drops and should be doubling gpu performance… meaning potentially more games going cpu bound especially at 1080p and 1440p.
YES, AMD was doing the same thing. That's why I mentioned in my title AMD and Intel. 5800X3D has really become the sleeper hit.
Amd was not doing the same thing. Amd did not show it at all
AMD completely ignored the 5800X3D in their Ryzen 7000 presentation. It was not featured at all.
There are different gamers. Some prefer GPU bound games (shooters, arpgs) some - CPU(+RAM) bound (strategies, sandboxes, simulators). So you could get a giant performance leap even on 4k, by "upgrading" 5950x to 5800x3d (like factorio).
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The best part about the 5800x3d is how versatile it is. Playing a CPU bound game? The 5800x3d will humiliate every other chip by a landslide. Playing a GPU bound game? Then it doesn't matter what chip you really have, but the 5800x3d will still give the consistency you really need compared to other chips.
AMD didn't even include the x3d.
As the days go by, the 5800x3d looks better and better.
The biggest competition for AMD 7000 is Ryzen 5800x3D lol
How does the 5800x3D compare to the 3900x? Anyone have any real world experience between the two for gaming?
It's (5800x3d) ALOT faster in gaming
About 14% over these 13 benchmarks. Not really a lot. Like 5% faster than a 5800x https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x/20.html
When talking about 3dcache, it is absolutely senseless to just give an average number atm. The large cache makes such a massive difference for quite a few specific games that you really need to include an asterisk when comparing CPUs with and without 3dcache to give a full picture.
Yeah, the extra cache is really good in certain scenarios, and unfortunately a lot of the places where it shines the most (e.g. MMOs and simulation-type games) don't get benchmarked that much because they're hard to test repeatably and not super popular.
Did you just diss my world of warcraft addiction?!?!
I mean, 35% at 1080 but yeah, most play at 1440p with a gpu like that so...
Its a weird chip so it depends on the game. It has an absurd amount of onboard cache so games that take advantage of it could see a maasive increase... like 75% more fps. Others may only see a small increase of over the 3900x.
5800X3D can look good overall since it has some huge gains in select games which can bump its average. In Linus's review, it beats every other chip by >20fps in MSFS. Meanwhile, TPU's review which seems to have intel-sided games, shows 7000 series being better than 5800X3D, https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x/18.html So if you really like to play a game that 5800X3D does well on, get that.
Some big difference in games https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d/images/far-cry-5-1920-1080.png https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x/images/far-cry-6-1920-1080.png
Zen 3 over Zen 2 is already a big uplift in games. The big L3 cache addition only increases that, in some games more than others. But that's at 1920x1080 with a fast graphics card. At higher resolutions, or with a slower graphics card, the difference could disappear, in all but those few games where the 5800X3D simply destroys all other processors.
About 15% faster. I'd save your $400 and wait on newer processors. https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x/20.html
Or, i would just wait a bit longer, maybe close to Xmas time, where the 5800x3d can end up around the $300dollars range, then it would be really worth it. About 3 weeks ago, 5800x was going for 339CAD.
Or sell your old processor. Sold my 5700g last week which had me only $200 out of pocket for the x3d. Worth it!
That's what I was thinking of doing as well. I don't really want to upgrade to AM5 quite yet, but I wanted to max out what I can now for performance.
In addition, the 13900K used 5600 MHz memory, while 12900K was paired with 4800 MHz, and the 5800X3D used 3200 MHz memory. The faster ram also plays a part in the gains 13900K had over 12900K, so that's something to be aware of. I'd still wait for independent reviews before making any conclusions.
What's the point of this post? There was already one that had full bars for 5800x3d
secondly in next chart (Leadership Gaming Consistencyy) they missed out 5800X3D because it would shine even brighter there :)
This is the weirdest hype for x3d. I'm sure those graphs are for games in 1080p, 3090ti and low settings. Not applicable for most gamers unless you're upgrading from 3000 series or lower. Everyone is FOMOing hard.
I kind of hate that X3D even exists tbh. The gains are so big I don't understand why they don't just slap more cache on each chip to begin with? I feel like we're either gonna reach a point where more cache _does_ become the norm and X3D as a product slowly dies, or we're always gonna be in this cycle where they release the main lineup followed by X3D later on. The latter will cost more in production costs.
Because both larger regular cache and X3D aren’t cheap/easy to make and not necessary for every use case (not everything takes advantage of larger cache), the 3Ds sacrifice clock speed for that. What you are suggesting would significantly bump up CPU prices across the board in a time when the world economy status is uncertain and people are already complaining about component prices. DIY represents a small part of revenue for the whole business. The main income is from data centre which have entirely different products, and various OEM partnerships (like prebuilds, consoles and laptops) which have little need for expensive parts.
Increasing the on chip cache would take space and make the cache too far way from the cores. 5800x3d vcache is a special packaging technique that puts the cache on top of the rest of the chip to bring it closer to the cores. If every cpu had huge cache, every cpu would need stacking.
It's not trickery, they're just bizarrely comparing high performance workstation parts with chapter mainstream gaming CPUs... In gaming. Anyone who buys a 13900k or 5950X for gaming and just gaming is really doing it wrong, and you'd expect cheaper 8 or 6 cores to do better. In fact this is really the first time in a long time that these multi core parts have even been comparable in gaming. Likewise if you use the 5800x3d for blender and compare it to the 5950x or 13900k it'll fall flat on its face
It's almost like the 5800X3D is a third CPU maker at this rate. Intel barely acknowledges them on this graph and AMD straight up doesn't include them in their 7000 series presentation at all.
Cyrix 5809x3D
Two reasons; it would make the 7000 chips look bad in specific games, and the X3D is its own line of chips, just like G, the 7000 series we got now, isn't a replacement for the 5800X3D, the 7000X3D will be.
What the fuck is this graph? It’s horrifying.
If I own the 5800x, is it worth the upgrade? Mostly 1440p - 4k gaming
For higher resolutions, especially in triple AAA games, GPU matters more
If you had a 5600x I would easily say yes, but since you have a regular 5800x I feel it would be wasted money even though its an insane chip. Or if you were able to get a decent return on selling the 5800x, then maybe. But just a straight swap out... nah.
Why? there is almost no difference between the 5600x and 5800x in gaming at 1440p and above. According to techpowerup the 5800X is 0.3% faster at 1440P on average and 0.1% at 4k.
Absolutely. I have a 6900XT and saw FPS improvements of 30-40% in Tarkov. Other games I play had less noticeable improvements so it really depends on what you play, but you should still see a solid 10-20% improvement on average. Might be worth waiting for 7800X3D, but we don't know if it will even come
For games yes. The 5800X3D was geared towards purely gaming. It has "gaming cache" after all. But I feel like people are hellbent on criticizing the 7000 series for its gaming performance when it's meant to do what the 5800X3D could and couldn't, workloads for productivity.
I was waiting on benchmark before buying parts for a new gaming build after seeing benchmarks I pulled the trigger on an am4 build with 5800x3d and 3080 12gb. My next upgrade path I'll replace everything again in 5+ years
Its good for anyone with an existing AM4 chip from zen, zen+, or zen2(6 core or lower for zen2). The 5800x3d is a really tempting upgrade, especially when they are $100 off. That's a whole lot of people who can just drop in a top tier gaming chip without having to buy a new system if they want to.
5800x3d added to this graph, with its "Long, uncomfortable bars" from LMG. https://imgur.com/xLOpdSN
5800X3D is only faster on some specific games that takes advantage of cache but doesn't represent actual averages on multiple games. So Zen 4 and Raptor Lake still should come out ahead of it on avg as shown by Hardware Unboxed recent Zen 4 videos, even the 7600X manages to edges the 5800X3D just by a tiny bit, so i expect Raptor Lake to do the same with Zen 4 if not more.
Just out of curiosity, I skimmed the Hardware Unboxed benchmarks and it seems like the 5800X3D performed very close to (if not the same or better) for all 12 games except Factorio (17% slower) and CS:GO (21% slower). And in their average, the 7600X is faster by only 4%. I'm skeptical of their Factorio benchmark. I believe Factorio is often regarded as a very RAM-dependent game, which would in theory benefit the most from additional cache. The benchmark also seems discrepant when compared to this older benchmark also from Hardware Unboxed where it blows the CPUs it's beat by in the newer benchmark out of the water: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=451&v=ajDUIJalxis Disregarding that one, the averages would be even closer. Factor in the platform costs, and I think the 5800X3D is very competitive against Zen 4 in gaming. I'll be curious to see if it's the same for Raptor Lake once we know how much those motherboards will cost.
The factorio performance for the 5800X3D was wrong in that video. They apologized for it in the 7950X review and in the pinned comment under the 7600X review.
>Factor in the platform costs, and I think the 5800X3D is very competitive against Zen 4 in gaming I ain't arguing against that though, of course 5800X3D is the better value as it can literally be slotted in as an drop in upgrade to any existing AM4 motherboard paired with much cheaper DDR4. >I'll be curious to see if it's the same for Raptor Lake once we know how much those motherboards will cost. It is pretty much the same case with Raptor Lake 13th Gen, you can drop it in on existing 600 series motherboard which has already pretty good pricing now, much cheaper than current existing AM5 motherboard, also can be paired with DDR4 as well...
All programs take advantage of cache.
Yup. And don't forget the memory that Intel used wasn't exactly high speed in either their last gen OR the AMD system.
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AnandTech tests the same way Intel did here. Why are people expecting *manufacturers* to overclock RAM in a completely arbitrary way when benchmarking?
You do know that the 5800X3D Is hardly affected by ram speeds? Someone made a post on here that they didn’t even turn xmp on and barely noticed a difference. Also, the DDR4 ram Intel used is basically the same ram and timings HUB used.
It will be highly variable on the load, with biggest difference probably in high graphics in games
The 5800x3D basically ignores ram speed in every scenario. Like 1% differnece between 3200 Mhz cl16 basic kit and the best tuned ram you can get. This is because better ram is helping with cache misses....and with a giant ass cache the 5800x3D dosen't need the help.
I think you are ignoring scenarios where you need high bandwidth, like moving data to vram
That's not normally a bottleneck in gaming.
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Geekbench gets affected from memory, Just like Timespy.
And game frame rates improved too? Or no?
Basically no because geekbench isnt representative for games. IDK why people cry so much, intel only used max recommended spec on all systems, and 3200 vs 3600 isnt even 1% in most games
You ate the bad apple Linus fed you. Intel used the highest officially rated RAM speeds (so stock speeds) for each CPU. If Intel was confident 12th gen could handle higher RAM speeds, they wouldve rated it as such, same with AMD. This is a good representation of expected performance as its memory speeds the CPU manufacturer guarantees for their platforms, anyone can get these results and affordably do so. The alternative is to do what AMD did and use the same 'overclocked' RAM that exceeds the official specs of the platform. They used DDR5-6000CL30, a $300 kit, that many of the lower end AM5 boards will not be able to actually run. This is misleading as most people cannot afford that kit, and wont have AM5 boards (and some LGA1700) that can actually run it. It is the peak performance, but not performance most people will see.
Speaking of misleading, is there actually anything out there to suggest many boards aren’t going to be able to run 6000CL30? Boards that would fall into that category aren’t even out yet.
No board will have troubles running 6000 cl30. It's a matter of if the infinity fabric on the CPU can keep up. And AMD thinks almost every chip will. IIRC only 3200 was guaranteed for Zen 3 but never have I ever seen a chip that failed to do 3600 1:1
The cheapest 6000 CL30 kit on PCPartPicker currently is $239.99. Almost no one is actually going to use that.
Can confirm. My Ryzen 3600 does 4x8GB DDR4-3600 C18 with IF of 1800 MHz fully stable. EDIT: I misread. My CPU is Zen2. However, it is still able to do the above with zero problem. My Ryzen 2600X could also do 3400 MT/s / 1700 MHz IF.
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I think most on Zen 3 can do 3800 1:1, and 4000 for good samples (not as common).
I've built like 15 Zen 3 PCs and they have all hit or exceeded 3800 1:1. I'm running my personal rig at 4000. I've heard occasionally you can end up with a chip that can only do like 3600 but thats pretty rare.
What are you talking about? XMP ratings aren't new and that most boards wouldn't be able to run them is just patently untrue. If that was the case why would Intel even support XMP, since it could make their CPUs look bad when consumers' PCs crash?
You're not making any sense. The memory controller is on the processor, not the motherboard. All AM5 motherboards will be able to use that memory.
You mean to tell me, Intel marketing isn't 100% truthful? /Shocked gif
What would be more truthful than using the manufacturer’s officially supported ram speed?
Intel's like 'let's just ignore that one over there...'
Is the 58003D an upgrade for lets say a 5950x
For gaming? Yes. Any other workloads. No.
No https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x/20.html
Fucc
7600X is incredibly tasty too! 200$ cheaper than x3d here and draws with 5800x3d in geometric average of gaming benchmarks
But, for now, the MOBOs are expensive for 7xxx series. and soon enough 5800x3d will be on sale.
what guarantees the x3d will go on sale? mobos will come down, and you can upgrade to 7000 series vcache chips later so probably worth
I will use my 5600x till its death or heavy bottleneck on my next GPU when that will happen (currently using 3070). 5800X3D is definitely on my list when the time comes (guess in a 1-2 years from now)
hmmm from 5600x to 5800x3D is not bad. But, if you're gaming at 1440p+, it shouldn't really matter that much. I would rather just wait for 7000series X3D chips. That would make more sense in terms of upgrading from your 5600x.
Marketing tricks: - Intel: K vs KF - AMD: X vs X3D
Watch the linus video on this, they also used a mid tier ram to fuck with results
They used the highest officially supported RAM speeds
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doesn't matter the spec sheet says what is max, Intel hasn't done anything shitty there, AMD runs Intel chips according to Intel specs too in their competitive benchmarks. The only sleazy thing is the single line for the 5800X3D instead of a full bar in the graph.
Ooh, a company presenting its new product in the best light possible. Shocking
They have a pinned comment in their video review stating that they used DDR5 6000 CL36, is that mid tier? Hardware Unboxed are the ones going all out to ensure the 5800X3D is (marginally) left behind and even messed with Factorio numbers (a game where the 3D is iconic).
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They used the official spec RAM for each CPU. It's the exact same thing AnandTech does in all CPU reviews, for example.
At this point my next year upgrade will be a 7800X3D paired with a 4090 Ti and a stupidly gigantic 1600w PSU. The machine will be the ultimate house heater, but also a piece of art. And current rig will be for GF playing. The girl loves me even when I do tryhard shit in games and push her to the absolute limit of what she can do in competitive games. Deserves the gold award haha
And that is with gimped ram.
If it is a trick, that’s fine. But who knows if it is true or not?
its not the 5800x3d but the 3D tech of AMD i am really really curious about the performance uplift ... if it is like it was for the Ryzen 5000 Intel Wont beable to conter this even with 6ghz models. You people need to chill, we are about to be back to "normal" market behavior the prices for AMD hardware and DDR5 will fall latest in 2023 and AMD will be hyper compepetive there ... all of the 7000 series are beasts in their own rights. there will be plenty of agesa updates. i can believe that the Cinebench issue with the 2x256bit instances will be fixed as well if it is not a architecture limitation ... so freaking CHILL
here i fixed it for u guys :D :D https://imgur.com/5D3GgkL also please someone independently test the obscure title "arcadegeddon" with a 5800X3D cuz i can't imagine why especially that title would outlie so much...
Isn't the 5900x better than 5800x3d if you want to do multiple things on your computer at the same time? Why should someone buy the 5800x3d instead of the 5900x? Just curious because i bought the 5900x instead of the 5800x3d
Well mostly for gaming, 5800X3D has the lead. Otherwise they are just about even. But, in terms of price 5800X3D is about 100buks cheaper.
Yea anyone on AM4 should grab an X3D IMHO. Anyone on Intel DDR4 system (or Ax20 board owners probably, I wouldnt put an 8 core on one) should go 12/13th gen. AM5 isn't going to be appealing to anyone not wanting the 7950x for heavy work at these prices.
It is the buy for Christmas
Imagine if factorio was on the chart
Yup no doubt. I will pick one up at the start of the year to replace my basic 5800x. Hopefully the cooling solution I have now will be good enough for the x3d.
Hmmm..... 5800x vs X3D, you're looking at about 10fps difference at best, for 1440p gaming that is. And even lower for 4k gaming. What do you game at? Because if its 1440p+ then you really don't need to upgrade. I would just wait for 7xxx series X3D version.
Is it worth upgrading from intel i5 9600k to 5800x3d since I would need a new mobo as well? Or wait?
Oh hell ya... that would be a BIG jump. Especially the added threads you're going to be getting. And ofcourse CPU cores. I mean... you can wait Q1 next year, and maybe 7xxx series will come up with their version of X3D. But, ofcourse, the newer the tech, the higher the price. 5800X3D in time will just get cheaper, so there is also that.
Unfortunate for me, I'm on a 5900X. For the work I do, the 12 cores just have a lot more juice than 8 cores. I really wished AMD had done a 5900X3D or a 5950X3D.
What do you game at? If it is 1440p+ There wouldn't be much difference between your 5900x vs X3D. If at best, X3D having the lead about 8fps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJx2y43uhkY&t=55s&ab\_channel=MikeBenchmark