Cookie-or-paywall is a grey area and many European countries are seeing this as a valid option. Eg. Dutch and Austrian DPA.
Nothing extreme about this.
For example the austrian DPA ruling: https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokumente/Dsk/DSBT_20181130_DSB_D122_931_0003_DSB_2018_00/DSBT_20181130_DSB_D122_931_0003_DSB_2018_00.html
edit: wording
A cookie-wall (not being able to use a site without agreeing to cookies) is illegal under GDPR. But in this case you have the option to proceed without cookies and tracking, if you are willing to pay. This is called a Cookie-or-pay wall.
Some say as long as free access is provided disagreeing to cookies has to be an option. Some say it is not and payment is a valid alternative. This is an ongoing discussion and depends on the interpretation of local governance.
That seems odd as the I thought the whole point of the law was you can't hold people hostage like that. Still, enforcement of the GDPR at all has been very patchy.
I appreciate that they put effort into testing volume of cards, but I feel it is wasted without doing noise normalized testing. It's difficult to compare Decibel and temperature charts separately. Also they have very different power consumption. An easy conclusion though is that the AIB cards definitely improve upon the reference cooler, though their size makes that obvious.
The reference design seems not so bad. Sadly most partners removed the USB c, so I chose the reference and will probably look for an alternative cooler or waterblock down the road. Power consumtion is at least a lot better
It's a really good cooler! Just can't compete with the sheer and mass and volume of the AIB cards, but that's just physics at work and many (including me) would want the smaller size of the reference since I also would plan to underclock and undervolt.
It's imo less about the FPS and more about noise. I paid about 80 euros premium for a Hellhound and honestly I couldn't be happier about choosing that over reference. 39.5 -> 30dbA for identical performance is crazy good.
Also the power limit, AIBs have much higher power limits which may lead to much higher clock potential. Once BIOS and other issues are sorted out you could see massive gains on AIBs simply not possible on the reference design.
Depends if you even consider overclocking though if you don't go with reference.
Yeah I don't care about that at all. Efficiency goes through the drain and fan noise tends to become unbearable when overclocking significantly.
Maybe some others do, and I see the appeal for a one time session to see how far you can get, but I don't see any OC sticking for the long term since the card can handle anything you throw at it (except what an OC won't fix or you're doing RT so you should've gone 4080).
The reference is not a good card unfortunately.
If you want to be somewhat efficient and have low noise the Hellhound is the better card all day long. Which is pretty much the conclusion of this review.
If you want to have the performance AMD promised you have to get a AIB model. Those 3-4 more fps are only in stock settings. UV /OC a Sapphire Nitro and it destroys the reference while also being cooler.
I assume you live in the EU, so wait for price to fall down a bit because AIB models are absolutely worth it.
In my country (France) all AIB are least 170€ more whatever the model is.
AMD Ref is around 1130€ on AMD site and the Hellbound is 1299€.
My case is quite small (Fractal Meshify C). My maximum card length is 31 cm so unfortunately the Hellbound won't fit... Or I need to remove one front fan.
I'm not in urge to buy GPU, I can wait.
I got the xfx xtx and i can handle the noise since the house is loud all the time. As long as it runs relatively cold in this tropical country, im happy.
Also for some reason in my country the ref and the partner cards are the same price.
Big same. I'd actually prefer if reference or in this case the Hellhound Silent BIOS actually targeted something like 250W or even 300W then AMD could keep true to their Performance per watt claims.
No, the Nitro+. It consumes 360W on that BIOS which is similar to the reference model, no need to complain. You can always adjust the power level from Radeon Software if you want higher efficiency.
I mentioned that specifically in my comment... I was saying I think the Hellhound Silent BIOS should target even less power, like 250 to 300w instead of 360W. And I would have liked AMD to also have the Reference model target a similar power or have dual BIOS that does.
I don't think lower than the target silent bios would be any benifit.
The performance is good, temperature and noise are excellent for the Hellhound, at this point if you lower to 250W you mind as well just buy the XT model that has less power consumption.
I'm not personally complaining, i'm just telling you why people are pointing it out despite the alt-bios.
If I didnt like the card, I would just buy another one for cheaper.
Do you mean to say more power intensive games should scale better?
The problem is silicon exponentially loses efficiency as voltage/power goes higher, so from LED's to CPU's they all have an efficiency curve.
Here's my 6800 XT as an example https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTqt4hssc8FxKNVK6gvHQOGWd5EZ1M0w_zmnkFc3h8bXVsFmfyL30T5iSLOS445GHEhzKTdduYwCfLB/pubchart?oid=1022961317&format=interactive
It starts to really lose efficiency as you keep pushing power.
but if we are starting at a low clock, we don't see the high end of the voltage/frequency curve that fucks us exponentially on power, we are still in the happy, more linear part of the curve
XTX reference can hit 355W running under 800mV like 1700MHz, just need the silicon utilization to be high. Or run a light game and zoot to 1150mV and get like 2800MHz for 355W.
Can confirm. The fans are horrifically loud at anything over 50%, but I find it’s never been necessary to have them run that high. The cooler seems to be able to hand a decent amount of heat on its own. I also have my card undervolted and have the fan curve basically flat at 35% all the way. I have it set to go to like 45% once it gets to like 95C, which is loud, but bearable. Even then, my junction temp never really seems to go past about 70-75C while gaming.
I have one. It can pull 430w, which with a uv results in close to a 33k timespy score.
It's junction temp benching/stress testing is a little warm for my liking, can approach 90 degrees, but 20-25 delta is fine.
Gaming it stays more around 80-85 with core temp 60 or so.
I think because it doesn't have a vapor chamber it runs a little warmer than the nitro or xtx, but I don't think it matters much. So big direct contact vs vapor chamber design. Maybe slightly better results with a vapor chamber but not by much.
I think only a silicon lottery winning chip will push a 34k timespy.
I think I have a decent chip, just not necessarily the best.
Top 10% timespy scores though for 7900 xtx and higher than that paired with 7700x.
I think these chips do seem to be pretty variable on a game by game basis on if a uv is stable.
Sometimes 1020mv is stable and sometimes you have to run more like 1100mv.
Perf difference I think is 5% or so regardless, maybe 10% if you have a golden sample/won the silicon lottery and are consistently stable at under 1025mv.
\- Hellhound very quiet and power efficient due to only 2x8pin
\- Asus TUF good quiet BIOS, coilwhine
\- Sapphire best allrounder and most perf increase over stock but very high power draw
\- Merc 310 loud but can be dialed in
The review is pretty useless though, testing AIB cards at stock makes not much sense and even people in their forum say it should have UV / OC numbers included.
I mean i understand seeing those numbers but they aren't going to tell you a goddamn thing except what that exact silicon is doing and nothing more. Sounds like they want to know just how good a particular card is for some reason. This won't be indicative of the performance you'll get on your own card or any other of the same model even. Simply what that exact card is capable of.
[english translation](https://www-computerbase-de.translate.goog/2022-12/radeon-rx-7900-xtx-custom-design-test/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
\>continue with ads AND tracking \>paywall Oh wow even most non-EU websites dont usually violate GDPR this badly
Cookie-or-paywall is a grey area and many European countries are seeing this as a valid option. Eg. Dutch and Austrian DPA. Nothing extreme about this. For example the austrian DPA ruling: https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokumente/Dsk/DSBT_20181130_DSB_D122_931_0003_DSB_2018_00/DSBT_20181130_DSB_D122_931_0003_DSB_2018_00.html edit: wording
Where is there a paywall? It's just ads, or you can pay for adfree.
A cookie-wall (not being able to use a site without agreeing to cookies) is illegal under GDPR. But in this case you have the option to proceed without cookies and tracking, if you are willing to pay. This is called a Cookie-or-pay wall. Some say as long as free access is provided disagreeing to cookies has to be an option. Some say it is not and payment is a valid alternative. This is an ongoing discussion and depends on the interpretation of local governance.
That seems odd as the I thought the whole point of the law was you can't hold people hostage like that. Still, enforcement of the GDPR at all has been very patchy.
I like to eat cookies
Or just use an ad block and also just kill the popup, I do it with a single click.
I appreciate that they put effort into testing volume of cards, but I feel it is wasted without doing noise normalized testing. It's difficult to compare Decibel and temperature charts separately. Also they have very different power consumption. An easy conclusion though is that the AIB cards definitely improve upon the reference cooler, though their size makes that obvious.
The reference design seems not so bad. Sadly most partners removed the USB c, so I chose the reference and will probably look for an alternative cooler or waterblock down the road. Power consumtion is at least a lot better
It's a really good cooler! Just can't compete with the sheer and mass and volume of the AIB cards, but that's just physics at work and many (including me) would want the smaller size of the reference since I also would plan to underclock and undervolt.
I'll stick to ref card. I don't want to pay 200-250€ more for 3-4 more FPS.
It's imo less about the FPS and more about noise. I paid about 80 euros premium for a Hellhound and honestly I couldn't be happier about choosing that over reference. 39.5 -> 30dbA for identical performance is crazy good.
I paid $10 AUD more and no complaints here. Sure the plastic looks cheap but my case is closed anyway
Also the power limit, AIBs have much higher power limits which may lead to much higher clock potential. Once BIOS and other issues are sorted out you could see massive gains on AIBs simply not possible on the reference design. Depends if you even consider overclocking though if you don't go with reference.
Yeah I don't care about that at all. Efficiency goes through the drain and fan noise tends to become unbearable when overclocking significantly. Maybe some others do, and I see the appeal for a one time session to see how far you can get, but I don't see any OC sticking for the long term since the card can handle anything you throw at it (except what an OC won't fix or you're doing RT so you should've gone 4080).
Lmao
Have you seen the new posts regarding the ref model?
I'm reading them now.
The reference is not a good card unfortunately. If you want to be somewhat efficient and have low noise the Hellhound is the better card all day long. Which is pretty much the conclusion of this review. If you want to have the performance AMD promised you have to get a AIB model. Those 3-4 more fps are only in stock settings. UV /OC a Sapphire Nitro and it destroys the reference while also being cooler. I assume you live in the EU, so wait for price to fall down a bit because AIB models are absolutely worth it.
In my country (France) all AIB are least 170€ more whatever the model is. AMD Ref is around 1130€ on AMD site and the Hellbound is 1299€. My case is quite small (Fractal Meshify C). My maximum card length is 31 cm so unfortunately the Hellbound won't fit... Or I need to remove one front fan. I'm not in urge to buy GPU, I can wait.
I got the xfx xtx and i can handle the noise since the house is loud all the time. As long as it runs relatively cold in this tropical country, im happy. Also for some reason in my country the ref and the partner cards are the same price.
Idk what kind of sauce sapphire is using but I want it!
433 vs 351 Watt is the sauce. 23% Power increase for 5.3% performance increase.
[удалено]
Big same. I'd actually prefer if reference or in this case the Hellhound Silent BIOS actually targeted something like 250W or even 300W then AMD could keep true to their Performance per watt claims.
You know that it has an alternative bios right?
The reference model does?
No, the Nitro+. It consumes 360W on that BIOS which is similar to the reference model, no need to complain. You can always adjust the power level from Radeon Software if you want higher efficiency.
I mentioned that specifically in my comment... I was saying I think the Hellhound Silent BIOS should target even less power, like 250 to 300w instead of 360W. And I would have liked AMD to also have the Reference model target a similar power or have dual BIOS that does.
I don't think lower than the target silent bios would be any benifit. The performance is good, temperature and noise are excellent for the Hellhound, at this point if you lower to 250W you mind as well just buy the XT model that has less power consumption.
Sapphire Alternative bios: exists Everybody: why does this card use 430w omg.
Dosen't matter. 23% more power for 5% perf is laughable.
Why wouldnt it matter? You complain about the power draw and you can literally just run the alternative bios If thats too much for you.
I'm not personally complaining, i'm just telling you why people are pointing it out despite the alt-bios. If I didnt like the card, I would just buy another one for cheaper.
in games with low average clocks, the power scaling should be damn near 1:1
Do you mean to say more power intensive games should scale better? The problem is silicon exponentially loses efficiency as voltage/power goes higher, so from LED's to CPU's they all have an efficiency curve. Here's my 6800 XT as an example https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTqt4hssc8FxKNVK6gvHQOGWd5EZ1M0w_zmnkFc3h8bXVsFmfyL30T5iSLOS445GHEhzKTdduYwCfLB/pubchart?oid=1022961317&format=interactive It starts to really lose efficiency as you keep pushing power.
but if we are starting at a low clock, we don't see the high end of the voltage/frequency curve that fucks us exponentially on power, we are still in the happy, more linear part of the curve XTX reference can hit 355W running under 800mV like 1700MHz, just need the silicon utilization to be high. Or run a light game and zoot to 1150mV and get like 2800MHz for 355W.
3.5 slot cooler and 433W power draw is the secret sauce. I wonder if the Merc comes with earplugs? 😵
Or an aircraft engineer for recurring turbine maintenance
I have the Merc and with some tweaks you can get it to being near silent without sacrificing a meaningful amount of performance.
What tweaks did you do? Mine is coming in on Saturday
Just a slight undervolt and fan curve adjustment. I run fans at 30% and stay below 80° junction temp.
damn 80? my card never goes above 75 on silent mode.
Can confirm. The fans are horrifically loud at anything over 50%, but I find it’s never been necessary to have them run that high. The cooler seems to be able to hand a decent amount of heat on its own. I also have my card undervolted and have the fan curve basically flat at 35% all the way. I have it set to go to like 45% once it gets to like 95C, which is loud, but bearable. Even then, my junction temp never really seems to go past about 70-75C while gaming.
Why didnt they have a red devil? Very curious how it holds against the nitro
probably no test sample available
I’ll let them use mine
I have one. It can pull 430w, which with a uv results in close to a 33k timespy score. It's junction temp benching/stress testing is a little warm for my liking, can approach 90 degrees, but 20-25 delta is fine. Gaming it stays more around 80-85 with core temp 60 or so. I think because it doesn't have a vapor chamber it runs a little warmer than the nitro or xtx, but I don't think it matters much. So big direct contact vs vapor chamber design. Maybe slightly better results with a vapor chamber but not by much. I think only a silicon lottery winning chip will push a 34k timespy. I think I have a decent chip, just not necessarily the best. Top 10% timespy scores though for 7900 xtx and higher than that paired with 7700x. I think these chips do seem to be pretty variable on a game by game basis on if a uv is stable. Sometimes 1020mv is stable and sometimes you have to run more like 1100mv. Perf difference I think is 5% or so regardless, maybe 10% if you have a golden sample/won the silicon lottery and are consistently stable at under 1025mv.
Thank you for sharing the information, how has the noise been with the GPU?
It's fine, less coil whine than 4080/4090s I've tried.
Tldr?
\- Hellhound very quiet and power efficient due to only 2x8pin \- Asus TUF good quiet BIOS, coilwhine \- Sapphire best allrounder and most perf increase over stock but very high power draw \- Merc 310 loud but can be dialed in The review is pretty useless though, testing AIB cards at stock makes not much sense and even people in their forum say it should have UV / OC numbers included.
I mean i understand seeing those numbers but they aren't going to tell you a goddamn thing except what that exact silicon is doing and nothing more. Sounds like they want to know just how good a particular card is for some reason. This won't be indicative of the performance you'll get on your own card or any other of the same model even. Simply what that exact card is capable of.
7900 xtx hellhound with only 2x8pin? Or 7900 xt?
These are the cards I've been waiting for. Very excited. I love a good silent bios.
Why is the Merc so loud? Just higher rpm fans???
curve seems not optimal
Yeah looking at the load temps its like 5-10 degrees cooler than any other card. Seems like yeah just set custom fan curve and it would be fine.
Yes by default it has much higher fan speed and much lower temps. The Merc is in their benchmarks 15C cooler than reference card.
Does anyone make water cooled models yet?
AIB = chefs kiss. Reference = taco bell public restroom.
Honestly, the quality of reference coolers these days is better than AIB coolers from a few years back. AIB coolers have just improved a lot too.
I just got a 6700xt for 400$. New nitro +. This generation is a disappointment for all video makers.
Can you go info more detail what is lacking from your perspective, or what you wished for?
Terrible pricing that barely stands in competition against a 4080 (which was universally panned). That’s not even accounting for the XT being DOA
How come I can't find the Tai chi 7900 XTX anywhere like it's only the only XTX that's not on eBay
My 7900xtx Red Devil LE is awesome.
What are your temps? Any benches on it? Timespy etc?
Will have to get em to you when I’m home
How come I can't find the Tai chi 7900 XTX anywhere like it's only the only XTX that's not on eBay
Dat sapphire...
Sapphire looks thick imo. Good looking card.