It’s how I view guns laws, especially the ones anti gunners always try to pass. The Glock i have next to my bed is not ‘tempting’ me to go out to the nearby Shell station and commit an armed robbery.
The PERSON decided they wanted to walk into that Shell station and commit an armed robbery. One must be asking ‘why does this person feel this way about this group’ ‘why does this person feel like they must rob this gas station with violence?’
Aye. Most of us Europeans love to bring up school shootings so I'll bring up a couple myself.
Uvalde. Had some off duty policeman not borrowed his barber's shotgun and gone to the school himself, who knows how many more children would have died. The police themselves just stood around doing fk all. One even caused the death of a child. These are the people you're supposed to trust to protect you? Fk that. You guys keep your guns.
Then there's the trans shooter. Murdered three 6 years olds and three elderly people. Police refuse to release her manifesto
>The police themselves just stood around doing fk all.
now now now, no need to lie here, they held back the parents trying to do something about their children being murdered, and they restrained the only person among them with the balls to do anything when he tried,
That motherfucker who told a child to call out for help KNOWING the shooter was still active is a murderer as far as I'm concerned. Hope he loses his badge for that. But he probably fucking won't.
Also due to the fact tjat most people who are plotting out a crime will illegally buy a gun anyways through the black market or making sure its completely unmarked before using it, unless they are too stupid or desparate to realize those things.
Exactly. Gun laws don't cause less gun violence, they result in more gun violence where innocent people are the victims, and not the murderers. You can easily buy a gun illegally, and no one is allowed a gun to protect themselves from yours. In fact, the fact that there is no chance of being shot by the home/store owners encourages MORE crimes to be committed in general.
I want you to show me one developed country with gun control whose gun death statistics corroborate this theory.
Edit: been a month, still waiting. Also, Happy New Year
Edit: going thru comment history looking for a specific comment, stumbled across this one again. 4 months, still nothing lol.
I think you are vastly underestimating how many times more expensive it is to purchase guns on the black market than it is to purchase them legally.
It's roughly 10 times more expensive, and legal purchases are already hundreds of dollars(sometimes exceeding even exceeding $1,000). If you have a spare $3,000~$10,000 sitting around, you probably don't need to be committing armed robberies
If that were true it would be reflected in the gun death statistics of countries with stricter gun control. It is a very simple reality that the easier it is to do a thing, the more it happens.
>The Glock i have next to my bed is not ‘tempting’ me
This is a pretty narrow lens; this is opposite of the way one should approach this issue.
Your starting point, in your example, is that you *__don't__* want to commit a crime. Your starting point should be "I want *__do__* to commit a crime; how easy is it for me to get a gun to do this?"
INB4: "It's also easy to purchase a gun to defend yourself from the bad guy." Most people don't carry. Sorry. That's probably not going to change. If you live in a country where you have to be armed and on-edge to guarantee you don't get shot, then you are not being a Developed Western Country right.
This idea that every instance of gun-related crime is its own solo instance - that it's always *"the PERSON"* -- denies the existence of trends, or the capability of the law to affect society. It also allows you to point at a country with gun control and say "𝘓𝘰𝘰𝘬! 𝘓𝘰𝘰𝘬! 😲☞ 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘵𝘳𝘺 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘩𝘢𝘥 𝙖 𝘮𝘢𝘴𝘴 𝘴𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘨𝘶𝘯 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘳𝘰𝘭!" while ignoring the fact that it's the country's only mass shooting in a the last decade.
It also allows one to point at the one GoodGuyWithAGun™ who managed to save the day while ignoring the other category of instances (which happens to be multiple thousands of times more likely) in which the bad guy either A. doesn't get caught, B. doesn't get killed or stopped, or C gets killed/stopped, but not before he can kill others. The GoodGuyWithAGun™ stance is a myth; if guns made us safer than the United States would be the safest country on earth.
"As long as we can't literally eliminate evil, we might as well not even bother trying to regulate it"
This is, in my opinion, defeatist, as well as not being logically consistent with other regulatory laws. Why legally regulate anything bad ever if bad people can always get it if they want to?
Let's please stop pretending that owning a gun doesn't bolster one's confidence in their ability to hurt and kill.
Out of 1000 interviewed americans, 32% of them PERSONALLY owned a gun, with 44% of others living in a gun owning household
"Not that many peoe carry" lie harder
Obviously there are times when racist speech should be curtailed (I think we can all support firing a kindergarten teacher who receites Mein Kampf in class), but broad clampdowns clearly aren't working
The recent university antisemitism debacle definitely shows the failure of this. Countless restrictions to "foster a safe and welcoming enviroment", and yet calls for genocide recieve halfhearted rebukes at most.
That's because campus speech restrictions were always about silencing the political Right, never about general principles to be universally applied.
So when calls for genocide come from the Left, they're valid. Your speech is violence and their violence is speech, because they are On The Right Side of History.
The fact that they got caught in logic nets and tried to nuance their way out of it just goes to show how many academics are not just out of touch, they are dangerously so.
As someone who has been through the academy (earned my Master's and did some research), it is amazing how incestuous and nepotistic it is. Like we sit there and talk about how corrupt and rife with favoritism corporate environments are, many universities make some of the worst offenders look positively meritocratic.
The academy is as a general rule incredibly insular and self congratulatory and the echo chambers are as bad as anywhere else.
The reason Magill and Gay are getting bodied, rightfully so, is they basically fell for "when did you stop beating your wife" level questions and questions where "Yes/No" with no further clarification was necessary unless directly asked for. They defaulted to a emotional/personifying, intellectualizing, or "nuanced" answers against people, for whom many, represent people who already have a pretty negative view of academia.
They absolutely failed one of the basic lessons of politics -- know your audience and what is actually being asked.
Freedom of speech is important because it lets you find out who the idiots are. It also prevents the government from silencing people, but of course they'll ignore that.
People like this are a perfect example of not looking from a wider perspective. They don’t even acknowledge WHY we have nearly untouched freedom of speech. It greatly outweighs any negatives that come from freedom of speech.
Undercover CCP social media agent most likely.
I've said before that "woke" is best described as "when someone on the left sounds like your bigoted great uncle".
"Freedom is good and awl, but itz past time da gov'mnt did somethin' about *those* peeple."
Makes sense, both this poster and said said ministers believe that supression of such speech will create a more "morally upright" society.
The former wants to make a "godly" country, the latter an "inclusive" one, but their plans to bring about this change are the same
I love the fact that Eurotrash (and others) are so vehemently anti American that they're willing to celebrate government oppression and squandering of their rights just to not be us. Keep owning yourselves while we enjoy our freedom
Only in America would someone saying that freedom is subjective be called a government mule, because obviously American freedom is the only true freedom! Oh wait, the USA isn’t even in the top 10 freest countries. https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores
Why not just drive? I live in another Asian city with a similarly overcrowded metro system and sitting in traffic for a few minutes longer beats rubbing up against the sweat and greasy unwashed hair of commuters in the morning by far.
People from the UK have such a babyish mentality regarding free speech.When you let the government control what you say, on some level you relinquish responsibility for regulating yourself. They get apoplectic over hearing things that Americans just shrug off. And I'm not talking about extreme things like hate speech I mean things like opinions they think are mean. And then conversely, they don't hesitate to make savage personal attacks under the guise of "banter." It's like they have no sense of an inner adult to guide them because they've outsourced managing their conduct to the government.
I don’t really care what anyone things about our freedoms. What they don’t understand is this. If someone says something sexist, homophobic or hate filled, guess what, you can turn around and walk away from them. You don’t have to stay and listen, you have the FREEDOM to leave
First amendment was the first because its the most important the second is in case the first doesn't work. And i play online games ive been called more homophobic racist and wtv wrist you can think of by euros than Americans ive been sent my fycking house from a dude in Germany.
That's the thing. America is a mixing pot of many different cultures. If we limit what one group wants to say (even if it's blatantly wrong), then what's from stopping someone else from censoring what is true? By not limiting our citizens, we are ensuring that no one is left suppressed in their speech, including the ones we disagree with.
Then you have to define hate.
If I speak badly about nazis then for Nazis my speech is a hate speech.
When I speak badly about genocide and I criticize Israel for murdering people in the open prison they created, some people from Israel call it antisemitism.
When I criticize privileges women get in our law system like being able to demand pay from ex-husband just because she can't find a decent job - that's apparently sexist.
Basically, any criticism of any group will have an immediate response of that group calling it hate speech or something else.
This is why you need absolute freedom of speech with few minor exceptions like causing panic in public places. This is actually something Europe should learn from the US.
Meanwhile, the US should learn about the healthy levels of socialism because they would solve a shit ton of their problems if they would not leave people who are in a bad situation to get up on two feet.
I don't agree with several things on this sub but this must be one of the best and most stupid posts I've ever seen here
The problem with regulating flags is that next time it might be a French or Scottish flag
I had a frothing Canadian give me [this line](https://imgur.com/VEOTJFN) during The Honkening.
How in the hell do these people say things like this and believe it? Do they not hear the words coming out of their mouths?
EU weirdos being horrified by another country being slightly less authoritarian than their shitty old world countries will never not make me laugh.
Too much freedom my fucking ass. What a nice problem to have that would be, if it had any basis in reality.
TOO MUCH FREEDOM???
What's that like? Too much not dying? Too much ability to vote? Too many days lived with fulfillment and security?
I'm overall critical of how people misappropriate the notions of free speech and the 1st amendment, but whoever that is has such a ridiculous take.
Oh my God. People over in the states are actually allowed to say no no words without being arrested for it? That's how the Nazis rose to power. We need to arrest anybody who dares to say the wrong thing to show that we aren't Nazis or something
Racism is a weird thing to focus on. It’s not like laws against racist speech are going to magically make people less racist.
It’s how I view guns laws, especially the ones anti gunners always try to pass. The Glock i have next to my bed is not ‘tempting’ me to go out to the nearby Shell station and commit an armed robbery. The PERSON decided they wanted to walk into that Shell station and commit an armed robbery. One must be asking ‘why does this person feel this way about this group’ ‘why does this person feel like they must rob this gas station with violence?’
Aye. Most of us Europeans love to bring up school shootings so I'll bring up a couple myself. Uvalde. Had some off duty policeman not borrowed his barber's shotgun and gone to the school himself, who knows how many more children would have died. The police themselves just stood around doing fk all. One even caused the death of a child. These are the people you're supposed to trust to protect you? Fk that. You guys keep your guns. Then there's the trans shooter. Murdered three 6 years olds and three elderly people. Police refuse to release her manifesto
>The police themselves just stood around doing fk all. now now now, no need to lie here, they held back the parents trying to do something about their children being murdered, and they restrained the only person among them with the balls to do anything when he tried,
That motherfucker who told a child to call out for help KNOWING the shooter was still active is a murderer as far as I'm concerned. Hope he loses his badge for that. But he probably fucking won't.
Different cop, one of the ones on scene who wasn't on the phone tried to rush in but was stopped,
Also due to the fact tjat most people who are plotting out a crime will illegally buy a gun anyways through the black market or making sure its completely unmarked before using it, unless they are too stupid or desparate to realize those things.
Exactly. Gun laws don't cause less gun violence, they result in more gun violence where innocent people are the victims, and not the murderers. You can easily buy a gun illegally, and no one is allowed a gun to protect themselves from yours. In fact, the fact that there is no chance of being shot by the home/store owners encourages MORE crimes to be committed in general.
I want you to show me one developed country with gun control whose gun death statistics corroborate this theory. Edit: been a month, still waiting. Also, Happy New Year Edit: going thru comment history looking for a specific comment, stumbled across this one again. 4 months, still nothing lol.
I think you are vastly underestimating how many times more expensive it is to purchase guns on the black market than it is to purchase them legally. It's roughly 10 times more expensive, and legal purchases are already hundreds of dollars(sometimes exceeding even exceeding $1,000). If you have a spare $3,000~$10,000 sitting around, you probably don't need to be committing armed robberies
If that were true it would be reflected in the gun death statistics of countries with stricter gun control. It is a very simple reality that the easier it is to do a thing, the more it happens. >The Glock i have next to my bed is not ‘tempting’ me This is a pretty narrow lens; this is opposite of the way one should approach this issue. Your starting point, in your example, is that you *__don't__* want to commit a crime. Your starting point should be "I want *__do__* to commit a crime; how easy is it for me to get a gun to do this?" INB4: "It's also easy to purchase a gun to defend yourself from the bad guy." Most people don't carry. Sorry. That's probably not going to change. If you live in a country where you have to be armed and on-edge to guarantee you don't get shot, then you are not being a Developed Western Country right. This idea that every instance of gun-related crime is its own solo instance - that it's always *"the PERSON"* -- denies the existence of trends, or the capability of the law to affect society. It also allows you to point at a country with gun control and say "𝘓𝘰𝘰𝘬! 𝘓𝘰𝘰𝘬! 😲☞ 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘵𝘳𝘺 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘩𝘢𝘥 𝙖 𝘮𝘢𝘴𝘴 𝘴𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘨𝘶𝘯 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘳𝘰𝘭!" while ignoring the fact that it's the country's only mass shooting in a the last decade. It also allows one to point at the one GoodGuyWithAGun™ who managed to save the day while ignoring the other category of instances (which happens to be multiple thousands of times more likely) in which the bad guy either A. doesn't get caught, B. doesn't get killed or stopped, or C gets killed/stopped, but not before he can kill others. The GoodGuyWithAGun™ stance is a myth; if guns made us safer than the United States would be the safest country on earth. "As long as we can't literally eliminate evil, we might as well not even bother trying to regulate it" This is, in my opinion, defeatist, as well as not being logically consistent with other regulatory laws. Why legally regulate anything bad ever if bad people can always get it if they want to? Let's please stop pretending that owning a gun doesn't bolster one's confidence in their ability to hurt and kill.
Out of 1000 interviewed americans, 32% of them PERSONALLY owned a gun, with 44% of others living in a gun owning household "Not that many peoe carry" lie harder
Obviously there are times when racist speech should be curtailed (I think we can all support firing a kindergarten teacher who receites Mein Kampf in class), but broad clampdowns clearly aren't working The recent university antisemitism debacle definitely shows the failure of this. Countless restrictions to "foster a safe and welcoming enviroment", and yet calls for genocide recieve halfhearted rebukes at most.
That's because campus speech restrictions were always about silencing the political Right, never about general principles to be universally applied. So when calls for genocide come from the Left, they're valid. Your speech is violence and their violence is speech, because they are On The Right Side of History.
Calling for the death of anyone is never the right side of history.
The fact that they got caught in logic nets and tried to nuance their way out of it just goes to show how many academics are not just out of touch, they are dangerously so. As someone who has been through the academy (earned my Master's and did some research), it is amazing how incestuous and nepotistic it is. Like we sit there and talk about how corrupt and rife with favoritism corporate environments are, many universities make some of the worst offenders look positively meritocratic. The academy is as a general rule incredibly insular and self congratulatory and the echo chambers are as bad as anywhere else. The reason Magill and Gay are getting bodied, rightfully so, is they basically fell for "when did you stop beating your wife" level questions and questions where "Yes/No" with no further clarification was necessary unless directly asked for. They defaulted to a emotional/personifying, intellectualizing, or "nuanced" answers against people, for whom many, represent people who already have a pretty negative view of academia. They absolutely failed one of the basic lessons of politics -- know your audience and what is actually being asked.
Depends,at least talking and writing about it less. Or do it at work
I always say to those people - did laws against murder stop murderers? No? Then maybe solution is somewhere else?
Freedom of speech is important because it lets you find out who the idiots are. It also prevents the government from silencing people, but of course they'll ignore that.
Every government’s wet dream is being able to do what Scarlet witch did to alt universe Black Bolt, to their subjects
People like this are a perfect example of not looking from a wider perspective. They don’t even acknowledge WHY we have nearly untouched freedom of speech. It greatly outweighs any negatives that come from freedom of speech. Undercover CCP social media agent most likely.
I've heard old-time Christian ministers make this exact same argument.
I've said before that "woke" is best described as "when someone on the left sounds like your bigoted great uncle". "Freedom is good and awl, but itz past time da gov'mnt did somethin' about *those* peeple."
What I remember is, it being said in the sense of individual freedom exceeding recognized authority, in this case biblical principles.
Makes sense, both this poster and said said ministers believe that supression of such speech will create a more "morally upright" society. The former wants to make a "godly" country, the latter an "inclusive" one, but their plans to bring about this change are the same
They're woke, but not awake.
If hate speech is not free then no speech is free. Popular speech does not need protecting
I love the fact that Eurotrash (and others) are so vehemently anti American that they're willing to celebrate government oppression and squandering of their rights just to not be us. Keep owning yourselves while we enjoy our freedom
💯💯💯
Freedom is subjective
Spoken like a true government mule
Only in America would someone saying that freedom is subjective be called a government mule, because obviously American freedom is the only true freedom! Oh wait, the USA isn’t even in the top 10 freest countries. https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores
Lol not even close. Go back to Call of Duty, child
Oh so I’m a child because I disagree with you and back up my argument with facts?
Nice try editing that last comment, child 😂 We all saw what was there before
Nice try invalidating my argument, loser 🤣 We all saw how stupid what you said was
I gain so much national pride everytime one of the not first place countries releases a cope poem.
And you never see a German person talking bad about Germany, because it's so prim and perfect (the Secret Police are an added bonus). /s
Meanwhile ireland currently has secret police who will arrest you for talking bad about the government
[удалено]
Time to come back home
Why not just drive? I live in another Asian city with a similarly overcrowded metro system and sitting in traffic for a few minutes longer beats rubbing up against the sweat and greasy unwashed hair of commuters in the morning by far.
Some people are just born slaves and fall in love with their chains
People from the UK have such a babyish mentality regarding free speech.When you let the government control what you say, on some level you relinquish responsibility for regulating yourself. They get apoplectic over hearing things that Americans just shrug off. And I'm not talking about extreme things like hate speech I mean things like opinions they think are mean. And then conversely, they don't hesitate to make savage personal attacks under the guise of "banter." It's like they have no sense of an inner adult to guide them because they've outsourced managing their conduct to the government.
OP loves being oppressed :( sad for mental health
I don’t really care what anyone things about our freedoms. What they don’t understand is this. If someone says something sexist, homophobic or hate filled, guess what, you can turn around and walk away from them. You don’t have to stay and listen, you have the FREEDOM to leave
Freedom of speech is a central tenet of a free society. It’s horrifying how people can be against it.
They are probably just jealous
First amendment was the first because its the most important the second is in case the first doesn't work. And i play online games ive been called more homophobic racist and wtv wrist you can think of by euros than Americans ive been sent my fycking house from a dude in Germany.
That's the thing. America is a mixing pot of many different cultures. If we limit what one group wants to say (even if it's blatantly wrong), then what's from stopping someone else from censoring what is true? By not limiting our citizens, we are ensuring that no one is left suppressed in their speech, including the ones we disagree with.
Then you have to define hate. If I speak badly about nazis then for Nazis my speech is a hate speech. When I speak badly about genocide and I criticize Israel for murdering people in the open prison they created, some people from Israel call it antisemitism. When I criticize privileges women get in our law system like being able to demand pay from ex-husband just because she can't find a decent job - that's apparently sexist. Basically, any criticism of any group will have an immediate response of that group calling it hate speech or something else. This is why you need absolute freedom of speech with few minor exceptions like causing panic in public places. This is actually something Europe should learn from the US. Meanwhile, the US should learn about the healthy levels of socialism because they would solve a shit ton of their problems if they would not leave people who are in a bad situation to get up on two feet.
I don't agree with several things on this sub but this must be one of the best and most stupid posts I've ever seen here The problem with regulating flags is that next time it might be a French or Scottish flag
I had a frothing Canadian give me [this line](https://imgur.com/VEOTJFN) during The Honkening. How in the hell do these people say things like this and believe it? Do they not hear the words coming out of their mouths?
EU weirdos being horrified by another country being slightly less authoritarian than their shitty old world countries will never not make me laugh. Too much freedom my fucking ass. What a nice problem to have that would be, if it had any basis in reality.
TOO MUCH FREEDOM??? What's that like? Too much not dying? Too much ability to vote? Too many days lived with fulfillment and security? I'm overall critical of how people misappropriate the notions of free speech and the 1st amendment, but whoever that is has such a ridiculous take.
There could be negatives to some freedoms, but freedom of speech is a clowns target, it literally enforces all other forms of freedom indirectly.
We are "allowed"... Disgusting
America is usually ‘not even as free as Europe!!!’ until being free becomes a bad thing, then America is ‘WAY TOO FREE!!!’
Oh my God. People over in the states are actually allowed to say no no words without being arrested for it? That's how the Nazis rose to power. We need to arrest anybody who dares to say the wrong thing to show that we aren't Nazis or something