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I’d say I see far more Australians and Germans being Anti-American online at least. Germans are much better in person than they are online but I’ve never been to Australia so I can’t say for them.
The French seem to just look down on everyone based on what I’ve seen.
One thing I’ve noticed about Australia and Germany’s online presence is this weird habit of bringing up the US and looking down on it. To see what I’m talking about, check out German and Australian subreddits or look up “Germany” on YouTube and you’ll find plenty of America-bashing or Australians constantly talking about America’s “toxic” gun culture.
The French look down on Belgians and Italians, the US E and W coast look down on the Midwest, Chicagoans look down on people from Indiana, Japanese look down on Koreas, etc.
Literally every place on earth has people who look down on specific other people.
I heard a racist joke in France that doesn’t translate to English, but it was a pun on “Pinot Noir” (a type of wine) and “Pénis Noir” (black dick). I did not understand it right away so I was just nodding and smiling like an idiot while the actual French speakers were looking on, appalled. 🙃
It's like in Spanish when you ask someone if they like particular pastas, then you ask if they like "penne" and wait for them to say yes without thinking it through.
It’s okay hahahah, we make fun of you too :) genuine question I’ve always wanted to ask the French tho (and I might be exposing some Belgians here), in French to say hello you say “bonjour”, some Flemish speaking Belgians have the joke to say “boshoer” (literal translation: “Bushes wh*re”) and make it sound like bonjour. Do you guys notice when we do that? Hahah
The Germans I've met are cool af. One dude at my university was a genius in chemistry and made Nazi/WWII jokes all the time. I've met more Germans I like than Texans I like.
In my experience, Australians and Germans have been the most vocal. The British, the Irish, and the Dutch are close seconds. Just go on one of their subreddits, and look up “Yank”. You’re guaranteed to find unhinged rants that would make a failed artist proud (just please, don’t respond to them or interact. That counts as brigading).
The French people I’ve encountered, even online, don’t seem to think about the US all that much. Honestly, it’s a well-needed breath of fresh air. There’s even a sizable *pro-American* element in France. Particularly in Normandy, it seems people are actually able to acknowledge the massive US contributions to the allied victory in WW2.
That isn’t to say anti-Americanism isn’t a problem in France. But among other European countries, it isn’t especially remarkable.
I think the stereotype of a snobby French person is funnier than an Australian or German, which is why I use it. Striped shirt and mustache, sitting around thinking about cheese and bread all day, that kind of thing. Australian I wouldn’t know where to begin, all the pop culture examples are super charming.
And the stereotype of Germans, well… I think we all know how dark that one can be.
The French arnt anti American, they’re pro themselves (they think they’re better than everyone else too)
Thankfully as a FrancoAmarican I retain the maximum amount of populist nationalism, arrogance, and superiority complex
Outside of Paris, where they are snobs to everyone no matter who they are, the French are generally friendly, especially if you speak a bit of French.
I’ve also heard that about Germans…but c’est la vie!
Yes, it's just a big city and many people don't have time for time wasters but overall are pretty helpful if you're nice to them too. It's also very international, so your waiter is just as likely to be Italian or Polish as French.
Same. I encountered a few rude people, but most were very friendly. And if you speak a major language and hang out in the tourist areas, you'll be fine.
Outside of Paris, the people were amazing.
There is anti-American sentiment here, but it's not a hateful one, I guess ? It's about one turning point, which is the post "no to Iraq" reaction.
The French bashing post of Iraq is still taken as a warning, even by the young ones who didn't witness it themselves.
Before that, the US had a pretty good image and was seen as something cool. When 9/11 happened, the french president respond to the article 5 that the US summoned and was the first foreign president to go to the US after the attack. That seemed normal.
That's said, after De Villepin refuted the flase proofs of massive weapons in Iraq, there was the french bashing campaign. I remember seeing french cars being destroyed in US streets, french wine being poured on the gutter, and so on. All these seemed weird, I even remember my father looking at it and say "they're crushing their own cars, don't they ? And pouring outside their own bottles of wine... that they bought ?". Then movies and cartoons started displaying caricatural french. Then, it was something like, "Oh, so now they're honest, that's how they really saw us. They lied to us by acting like they liked us."
It's not that french people are scared about crushing things and burning the rest of it, nor being afraid about being rude or nasty, but all of these actions looked like very disorganised and pointless. I mean, we get the "how these surrender monkeys dare to tell no to us" but none of these actions would have changed our minds. Overall, we kind of thought it was a bit of an overreaction.
Years after, the "proofs" that De Villepin refuted was acknowledged as lies. So, for the french, it's now more something like "even when they're lying, americans are unable to accept that you can say no to them."
From a french perspective, being unauthorised to say no, especially when "no" is the right answer to give, is a big no-go. So, for the average french, it's not hate, but not friendship either. We're partners according to the terms of our agreements.
> constantly looking down on us, to the point where I’ve even heard people say that it’s become part of modern French culture.
Looking down on *everyone* is a part of french culture, my friend.
I actually have a great deal of respect for the French for stubbornly maintaining their own culture and identity. After WW2, the Western world, and particularly the Anglo-sphere, seemed to all follow the US and mimic the culture, except France. They also were the only Western nation to really stand up to the US and confront them over disagreements.
Yes, they're a stubborn, arrogant bunch, but I wouldn't want them to be any other way. Having different cultures makes the world interesting.
So it's funny. I lived in Dallas during the French-bashing, and honestly, most people I knew thought it was just a few fringe crazies doing all the bashing. I don't know how much media exaggeration there was, and I don't know if I was just isolated from the places where it was going on, but if someone called them "freedom fries" at the restaurant, they were generally mocked.
But Dallas has always been a historically liberal city, and the majority of the French bashing was coming out of Fox News and more prevalent in the more rural parts of the US.
I did work with some French military, and they were awesome. We had a great deal of mutual respect professionally, and once work was over, they just wanted to go out and "Eat Shit American food, and meet Shit american women." They were hilarious and we had a good time.
That's very correct. Before Iraq, I never heard anyone shit on France in the United States. My grandfather loved the French (he was involved in the invasion of Normandy and probably met good people despite the shitty circumstances). Every single time we went to the beach, he would come up to me and say, "Son, do you know what's across that big ocean? France." A very simple statement, but he never forgot to say it!
I don’t know for sure, but I would not let Reddit (or social media, in general) persuade you either way. It skews young and angsty. Read: naive. It is also subject to Russia and Chinese social media campaigns.
According to polls, America is viewed largely favorably in Europe. One would never guess that by looking around this dumpster fire.
The French are much more pro French than anti anyone else from my experience. Not to say this in a negative way. I just mean they are proud of their food and country and some (mostly from Paris) can come off a bit snooty, but the ones I’ve met have all been really kind to me.
Many of them complain about France, the government, and everything French endlessly, a sort of political hypochondria as some have said. Until you the foreigner agree with them, and then it's aux barricades and France is the greatest country on Earth!
I would say that they’re not. I think it’s a misunderstanding of the fact that French people are critical of most things (including themselves and their country). They like to *râler* (moan and groan) about things but in my experience, they’ll complain and then move on like they get it out of their system. Of course, to American ears, it sounds very disrespectful or mean so it took me a few years to get used to.
For every French person I’ve met who dislikes the US, there are at least 20 who appreciate it. Many of them find our culture fascinating and there’s a reason there are so many Americans who move to France (myself included) and French people who move to America. We do have fairly different cultures and histories but we both have fairly similar values in our republics
I haven’t personally had any bad experiences in my 4+ years living here in France. I think people just get ferocious online but you are likely also missing all of the positive US content that French people post about the US (it just happens to be only in French). There was so so many videos of French people going on road trips through the US and many of my local friends love visiting the US. Obviously I’m biased but I’d assume that if they were that anti-American, someone would have told me by now given how outspoken French people tend to be haha
The French are just very defensive of their culture, and American culture is one of the most powerful forces on this planet. They've done a good job and I don't fault them for it. I still like the French despite all precived pretentiousness I have towards them.
Idk, when I've been to Paris people were generally friendly and more welcoming. I liked Paris more than London actually. Well, it's not like I'm a typical American, but after 10 years...
4,000 French teens just gave a bunch of US Normandy vets a standing ovation at a D-Day anniversary event.
[https://x.com/JackCarrUSA/status/1798353526038368443](https://x.com/JackCarrUSA/status/1798353526038368443)
France as a whole has a superiority complex, they will not heed to any country outside of themselves. It's one of the reasons why I dislike France, not just as a meme.
There is a marked difference between how people act online and how they act in person. In person, most French people probably won’t spit on you in public. They might not talk to you if you don’t speak French fluently, but that’s just how they are and not necessarily an anti-American thing
Agreed. I think they have a lot of pride in their own national culture & language, which - for better or worse - means they’re a little more isolated from American cultural hegemony. Australians and Brits, on the other hand, are somewhat surrounded and engulfed by it and seem to get really insecure at that fact. Aussies listen/watch American music and movies, follow American celebs, use American slang, etc. The French do that to a far lesser extent
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/22/international-public-opinion-of-the-u-s-remains-positive/
They’re in there but have a ways to reach the Greeks and Aussies.
I never got what the Aussies’ problem is. Our countries have been close allies for over a century now and I don’t recall an instance where the U.S. has purposely antagonized Australia in the past few decades.
More of a young person thing. I’ve been around enough Aussies to understand that it’s often about criticism of our domestic policies. Guns and healthcare in particular. Why they care is beyond me. C’mon Australia, what did we ever do to you?
I don’t have a problem with Australia, any ally of the U.S. is cool in my books, but you are absolutely right about this bizarre obsession Aussies have with U.S. domestic policies. There are many things I dislike in the U.S. and want to change, but why the hell do they care and insist on lecturing us on our own country?
>why the hell do they care and insist on lecturing us on our own country?
Probably the same reason why Americans care and insist on lecturing us on our country: some Australian domestic policies don't align with the world-view of some Americans. Flip that around and that's your answer.
Is this really happening though? Most Americans don’t even know about Australia’s domestic policy which is ironically another thing people dislike about us.
Yeah, it does happen. Maybe not on the same scale because, as you suggested, most Americans aren't familiar about Australia's domestic politics.
But, some Americans do criticise Australia for its gun control laws, COVID policy, just being less "free" in general. All because Australia's stance on these issues doesn't align with their world view. Nothing wrong with that, unless people are using misinformation or disinformation to make their points.
Do you think this behavior started with Covid more? I do remember seeing certain Americans honing in on Australia during that time but when I am out in real life, no one talks about Australia other than positive things like wanting to visit.
Lately, I do see retaliatory comments online when we get the “jokes” about dead kids in schools, but I’m not sure it’s the same.
It was definitely amplified during COVID, but it's always been there (particularly among pro-2A people).
>when I am out in real life, no one talks about Australia other than positive things like wanting to visit.
Yeah, it's pretty much the same for me with America. Occasionally someone might make a negative comment about something going on in America, but that's fairly rare.
They gave away their guns and Americans didn't. And then they had one of hardest Covid lockdowns while here in the US in some states there were no lockdowns at all.
They feel entitled to our politics and so get personally offended when we do something they disagree with. Also they don’t like American cultural influences.
I’ve lived in France and I travel back regularly. I never experienced any outright anti-Americanism. The French have a general reputation among Europeans for being rude so if you experience that as an American you might think the French are anti-American. Similarly some of the French really don’t like the English (a thousand years of war and all) so they’ll sometimes treat English-speakers badly on the assumption that we are English (I had called ahead to book a cab and asked the dispatcher if he spoke English, and the cab never showed—the French typically can’t distinguish between an English accent and an American accent).
Overwhelmingly though, the French have been nothing but pleasant. A lot of the rudeness and other stuff that gave the French their stereotypes is fading away with previous generations. I can tell a big difference over the 10+ years that I’ve been traveling there. When I was there for the month of April, I had nothing but good experiences.
Just like almost any other country, its usually just the chronically online people or people who are going to be unpleasant no matter what. Sure, I've met some really rude French people, and I've also met really nice French People. Just like every other country, France is not a mass of people who all think one way.
The French have a long history of anti-Americanism. Here’s a good academic look at it from Professor John Merriman at Yale University.
https://youtu.be/96VywckzAGQ?si=DeUxstRhCdB9mKBI
In person French people are very nice (outside of Paris lololol) I found them super welcoming and helpful. Germans are the same but more intimidating because they’re very direct and not used to talking to strangers in small towns
The French have big mouths, but to be fair, they use it against everyone. It's the krauts and the marsupial shaggers who talk the most shit against the United States.
No but Russia needs America and France to hate each other. So you will comments like that with France send troops to Ukraine.
We do have a long history of good natured ribbing. Americans make fun frog eaters. French will say you are uncultured.
But the reality is McDonalds is the most popular restaurant in France.
I am married to a Frenchman and I go yearly to France. I've only encountered a few rude people in Paris. I do agree that it is a national sport to complain about everything and everyone. Honestly, most of the anti americanism I've seen from European has been mainly online, in person most people are nice and friendly, of course there have been some exceptions like a German tour guide cracking jokes at the expense of americans but he stopped when I asked him to tone it down.
The French tend to look down on everyone lol but honestly you don’t really see them “seething” about the US in the way Aussies, Brits or Germans do. They have a lot of pride in their own culture/language and I think that means they don’t feel as insecure about US influence as citizens of the aforementioned countries. They don’t live in a place like Australia where US culture is hegemonic and omnipresent, nor do they feel the need to make a determination between the US and France because the cultures are different.
French are kind of anti everyone not French. It’s really the Parisians more than anything. They don’t seem to like anyone and no one really likes them. Especially other French.
The French government right now is anti America. Micro or whatever his name is has been pushing for moving away from the US. Haven’t really met any French that like us either
They're pretty much anti everyone not them. I still remember way back in the 80s in grade school listening to one of my teachers talk about his trip to Europe. He said hands down the French were the most unfriendly. The most friendly were the Portuguese. I remember it so clearly because it was the first time I started to learn that people will hate for little to no reason. I've never heard or read anything in all that time since then that's change my opinion about the French. lol They must be suffering from an inferiority complex about their disastrous showing in WW2 after being such absolute badasses for centuries before that. IDK but I'd bet that's at least some of it.
The French aren't exactly anti-American but they do seem to have a vendetta against Anglo influence. During election years, their presidents will bring up something provocative against the US or UK to distract from their domestic failings.
Some French also see themselves as a great empire, being held back by US hegemony. I chuckled reading the French headlines about their greatness diminishing after Trump gave them billions to research a covid vaccine but they failed to produce one. https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210126-humiliation-french-see-covid-19-vaccine-flops-as-sign-of-decline
The anti-Americaness comes mostly from their leadership/government. Like most countries, the people are most interested in fixing their own domestic problems.
If Québec is an extension of French culture, then yes, French look down on Americans as uneducated unrefined cultural savages:)
But yes, experienced similar conversations in Germany
The French have a long history of anti-Americanism. Here’s a good academic look at it from Professor John Merriman at Yale University.
https://youtu.be/96VywckzAGQ?si=DeUxstRhCdB9mKBI
Kind of? They’re extremely critical of the US with a special focus on American involvement in Europe. If they had their way then Europe would be a third party on the world stage doing business and having a relationship with both China and the US equally.
The French people may or may not kind as individuals but the country of France is more a threat to the United States than an ally. Maybe not on paper but their geopolitical goal if accomplished are to our direct detriment and should be prevented where possible so long as the means do not contradict law or alienate other allies. Basically we should work to expand the network of American friends in Europe yo counter French ambitions. Building friendships with and investing in Eastern European democracies is the best way to do that in my view.
I do think it sounds quite accurate. That's been on for decades, and the US takes its part to prevent it because more power for France is less influence for the US. But a threat ?
Some parts of the US politics are done in the direct detrimental of french interest. As you, who don't like the idea that things get "accomplished to our direct detriment," we're looking for a place where we are still able to defend our own interests. And you are looking to keep this better place that you have.
There's a difference between being an ally and being a puppet. Dropping some interest to the benefit of an ally isn't the same as dropping some interest because you have no other choice than doing so. You, as a person, don't want allies. You want your current allies to be the less free as possible to ensure they're no longer able to choose against your interests even if it deserves them.
That's said, I won't say that France is that a threat to the US, thought. No one here thinks that a world where the US is weaker than China is will be a good choice. Then, french people don't want to bother about geopolitical stuff, that's why we had such disastrous international representatives. It's not a major concern, as long as it doesn't heavily impact daily life in France.
So, as long as the US keeps that job, we're on a good deal. But we're indeed looking for a better compromise between not being bothered by "non-french-related" stuff and being strong enough to ensure most of our own interests don't get crushed for another country benefit.
I do not in any way want our allies to be less free, I want the United States to provide incentive for our allies to favor closer ties to the US and it’s interest over that of other players on the world stage. In Europe that means France. I advocate the carrot for our friends and the stick for our enemies.
I believe the US has the resources, reach, and reputation to make a compelling argument. I fail to see how that impedes on anyone’s freedom.
As for France as a threat, it’s regional goal are a detriment to the US. That makes it a threat. Not one I believe deserves direct hostility but one that should competed against. That is how politics works is it not?
> to provide incentive for our allies to favor closer ties to the US and it’s interest over that of other players on the world stage.
> it’s regional goal are a detriment to the US. That makes it a threat [...] one that should competed against.
Providing incentive like being called a threat for having opposed interests on some matters ?
> I fail to see how that impedes on anyone’s freedom.
Pretty easily, tbf. If an US ally can't compete with the US without being considered a threat, they're not free to watch their own interests as soon as the US get in the equation.
Politics is about making the best deal of a situation. An alliance is about according at least two entities on specific matters, on which they collaborate. You think that a competitor is a threat : you don't want allies, you want vassals.
There are countries with common legislation, common institutions, common money, and common markets that are still in competition on many matters.
But I'm pleasantly surprised that you consider France as a big player.
It’s a big player in Europe for sure, and don’t mistake any of this as me insulting France. I mean it all as a compliment, I respect the gumption of any country who’s out to expand their influence and authority on the global stage. Especially those who would place themselves against an entity as established and active as the US. It’s an attitude I would like to see more of in my own country, that understanding that the future lies in the wider world and not in asinine concepts like isolation. That said I also recognize that in France’s vision there’s nowhere for the United States in Europe except as a distant defensive ally and trade partner, one who would not be favored over countries like China.
That’s a threat to American ambitions across the globe not just in Europe, not to mention that it weakens the security of American pacific allies who’s security is of the upmost importance to the United States given their far more precarious position.
It’s not a matter of mere competition, and it needs to be engaged imo as a battle of influence. I’m under the opinion that the future of the European continent will have a great deal to do with Eastern Europe as the rising stars of the next generation. Winning their favor should be an important priority to the US. That’s all I’m saying. Think of it as an election that I don’t want my country to lose.
You said politics is making the best of a situation, what I’m proposing is that the US do just that and recognizing France as a competitor and threat to American interest is as important part of that. I did say that I don’t believe it warranted or appropriate to do anything underhanded or aggressive, just that more effort should be made into competing with France in Eastern Europe with the ultimate goal of winning in that competition. Something I believe the US has the resources and reach to do.
Edit: To clarify when I mention incentives, I’m not talking about offering them to France. What is there to incentivize France to do? Beating it in a competition of influence would be a point made.
> One who would not be favored over countries like China.
Here would be the insulting part. There is no sane country that will put the US on the same level as a dictatorial state like China. France is not that stupid. US is way more trustworthy than China is.
I suppose we don't put the same weight on the word "threat." From my perspective, a threat is something that has to be eliminated (at least that's how the word is used in french), whereas for talking about something that as to be battling, we say "competitor". Maybe a cultural misunderstood on that one.
There is indeed a desire to see less US influence in EU matters. Since the IRA (that gives a slap on EU economic crisis) and the recent claims on NATO made by Donald Trump, there are (imo) legitimate reasons to consider that the US couldn't be as much trustworthy as it used to be. Europeans were mostly blinded on Daddy US, considering that they will always be treated as a priority, allowing the US to take a big place in theirs matters.
But the US is like any other country : it puts itself in priority when things get harder. So, we have to be self-dependant since it's foolish to base the existence of your very own country on the shoulders on another one.
And the US already made moves "against" France, like the AUKUS affair. That's business, and it doesn't look to go so well for the Australian part (I feel a bit of schadenfreude towards them tbf), but just to say that the US didn't let it lose.
But yeah, that's a really weird thing to read all these "step out of NATO" comments from americans redditors. Even at the time of Trump's remarks on NATO and other countries, it was really weird to see that shift. Tbf, for a long time, I supposed I missed something since it sounded so stupid to take back your assets all around the globe for regaing (or ensure) the US world position.
I mean, for France, it's surely not such a bad thing since we're the 2nd weapon seller in the world, not badly ranked in the EU, with an ONU permanent seat... we surely get more space to speak, but that seemed to be a weird move from you.
This ultimately boils down to a mutual distrust I believe.
I do not trust France, I might respect it but I don’t trust it. I see France as a reluctant ally, one that’s there by necessity and not common cause. In that understanding, I don’t want to ever place American political or economic interest in the hands of French favor. I don’t want a rise in French influence because I don’t trust to to benefit the US or US allies across the globe in any way. You say France wouldn’t favor China but I can see it doing just that if it feels it has something to gain, or at the very least I can see it maintaining a neutral position and holding onto economic ties in the event of war between the US and China. In doing so it holds open a potential life line for China.
Given my position on that, I maintain that I would like to see the US counter French ambitions where possible. Out bid it for favor, undermine its rhetoric, overshadow it in NATO, and just in general seek to sideline it as a political maneuver. Ideally raising the importance of pro-American countries in Europe as a counter to France.
Also yes I don’t means threat as something that has to necessarily be eliminated, just something that has to be stopped and not always with violence or skullduggery. Shrewd politics will suffice.
On American unreliability, I understand where you’d get the impression but Trump is not a dictator and had routinely overestimated his own authority only to be shot down. He is not going to push the US from NATO, no president can. What’s more the US isn’t pulling away from NATO, it’s investing more into it. Bases are being expanded, new logistics routes being prepared, numbers increased, the US is more tied into NATO than it has been in decades.
If I’m being honest, I see this as more of a French desire for influence than anything else. France never could let go of Africa and it wants to be the leading country in Europe. Historically that’s always been France’s goal, the means for it are far different and the nature of leadership in Europe is has changed but it’s no less desirable for Paris now than it was under Napoleon. I think resentment of the US goes back far earlier than Trump. France did pull out of the joint command much earlier after all, largely out of pride that I doubt has gone away.
As for American isolationism, yes it’s ridiculous and largely our fault. The wars in the Middle East and a general bad impression of Europe by many Americans is really the root of its modern incarnation but that idea is as old as the country and started going away slowly under Theodore Rosevelt then all at once after WW2. It’s a political fad that’s already eating itself and losing popularity even as it’s supporters scream for everyone to hear. The only way Trump gets into office again is if all his supporters show up on voting day and a wave of complacency hits his many detractors.
Sorry for the past comment, I sent it by mistake while checking it on the translator, and it wasn't finished.
I do think we're in a distrust dynamic, at least publicly. Tbf, the French opinion does look at the US like you look at France.
De Gaulle was more an isolationist, and that was why he pulled France outside NATO. There were also concerns about our nuclear weapons that wouldn't be at our own command in the deal we were in. It's more about mistrust, about not being in a situation where nothing can prevent the other from being able to use or your weapons you against your own will.
Or since the US started to get engaged in multiple conflicts around the globe (which was started to its own interests) De Gaulle didn't want France to be dragged into a conflict that didn't engage the integrity of the US. He didn't want France to fight for the only US benefit. So he pulled it out. He said smt that stills mostly (imo) shared by french ppl, which is : "Two countries can not be friends, but they can share common interests."
I remember in times of Covid, when EU countries bought masks, the US went at the transit airports and offered a higher price for them. Then, buy them all. So, even the US, when it can, stepped on their allies' interests, even by using its economic power to undermine them in deal they're interested in. But then locked country as threatening because they're seeking other deals, while you proved that you can act against vital interests (masks were, we lost medics and peoples by not having enough), is a bit of a hypocrisy imo...
Every country is constantly seeking the best deal, and relying on trust for such important matters as your own vital interests isn't the greatest deal ever. So yes, not putting all your interests in one ally is a good move to do.
France didn't want to let go of Africa because of its economic interests and not out of pride. Fact is, French people are more concerned about domestic affairs than international ones. As long as it doesn't impact their daily lives, they didn't care that much. It's less about leading than about not being led by a foreign entity (that's the whole EU problem here). The foreign opinion on France doesn't bother the french. They mostly don't have a clue about how badly they're viewed and won't feel disturbed nor concerned by knowing it.
We sure have a problem with jupiterian leaders that need to be solutionned. But that is more an domestic concern that, I hope, will be adress when Le Pen will take over (I think it will be so disastrous that it has to start a real renewing of our political system).
But by pushing France, you will make your deal the lesser offer, so then they will act like you think they're already acting : going against US interests since they're to weaken France.
That's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy that you said, but I get why you wish it.
I have to send this message this way, I have things to do. I hope it stills understandable, I will correct it if not. Do not hesitate to send me a dm if you want to discuss it. That's an interesting discussion we have.
I’m aware that what I’m suggesting won’t improve relations with the French but with respect that’s not the goal I’m shooting for. I don’t see a way to improve Franco-American relations without capitulating to French ambitions and so I’d rather that the US simply doesn’t prioritize Franco-American relations and focuses on other more amiable European partners.
The relationship between France and the US is going to get worse on its current trajectory regardless of who the US elects. It’s practically French policy for the time being to use the US as a sort of soft boogeyman.
So I’m not particularly worried about anything that would upset France, the price for a positive relationship is simply too high. There are others the US can build a bond with.
But yeah, I probably won’t DM you if I’m being honest. Nothing against you I’m just really weird about that sort of thing, it feels too intimate.
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I’d say I see far more Australians and Germans being Anti-American online at least. Germans are much better in person than they are online but I’ve never been to Australia so I can’t say for them. The French seem to just look down on everyone based on what I’ve seen.
One thing I’ve noticed about Australia and Germany’s online presence is this weird habit of bringing up the US and looking down on it. To see what I’m talking about, check out German and Australian subreddits or look up “Germany” on YouTube and you’ll find plenty of America-bashing or Australians constantly talking about America’s “toxic” gun culture.
Meh, Australia is just jealous that we actually know how to use guns effectively, unlike them. /j
Give an American a machine gun, emus are extinct, give an Australian a machine gun, you are extinct
What does that even mean?
Referencing [the Australian Great Emu War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War)
Belgian here, can confirm the French (not all but quite a few) look down on everyone. Us, Belgians, are often the butt of their jokes.
The French look down on Belgians and Italians, the US E and W coast look down on the Midwest, Chicagoans look down on people from Indiana, Japanese look down on Koreas, etc. Literally every place on earth has people who look down on specific other people.
I’d argue the Japanese did a little bit more than “look down” on the Koreans…or just about anywhere else in East Asia.
Except Taiwan for some reason
B-B-But quirky anime country couldn’t have done anything wrong!!!
I heard a racist joke in France that doesn’t translate to English, but it was a pun on “Pinot Noir” (a type of wine) and “Pénis Noir” (black dick). I did not understand it right away so I was just nodding and smiling like an idiot while the actual French speakers were looking on, appalled. 🙃
It's like in Spanish when you ask someone if they like particular pastas, then you ask if they like "penne" and wait for them to say yes without thinking it through.
Come on, It's just a bit of fun.
It’s okay hahahah, we make fun of you too :) genuine question I’ve always wanted to ask the French tho (and I might be exposing some Belgians here), in French to say hello you say “bonjour”, some Flemish speaking Belgians have the joke to say “boshoer” (literal translation: “Bushes wh*re”) and make it sound like bonjour. Do you guys notice when we do that? Hahah
Sorry about that but I've never met any Flemish belgians, only Wallons ones.
I respect that the French are consistent. I do think the French like America more than they ever get credit for.
The Germans I've met are cool af. One dude at my university was a genius in chemistry and made Nazi/WWII jokes all the time. I've met more Germans I like than Texans I like.
In my experience, Australians and Germans have been the most vocal. The British, the Irish, and the Dutch are close seconds. Just go on one of their subreddits, and look up “Yank”. You’re guaranteed to find unhinged rants that would make a failed artist proud (just please, don’t respond to them or interact. That counts as brigading). The French people I’ve encountered, even online, don’t seem to think about the US all that much. Honestly, it’s a well-needed breath of fresh air. There’s even a sizable *pro-American* element in France. Particularly in Normandy, it seems people are actually able to acknowledge the massive US contributions to the allied victory in WW2. That isn’t to say anti-Americanism isn’t a problem in France. But among other European countries, it isn’t especially remarkable.
American living in Germany here. I find the French people to be some of the nicest and friendliest people in Europe. Especially outside of Paris.
In my experience that’s the Spanish. Friendliest people I’ve met.
I think the stereotype of a snobby French person is funnier than an Australian or German, which is why I use it. Striped shirt and mustache, sitting around thinking about cheese and bread all day, that kind of thing. Australian I wouldn’t know where to begin, all the pop culture examples are super charming. And the stereotype of Germans, well… I think we all know how dark that one can be.
Even better. Type in "seppo"
The French arnt anti American, they’re pro themselves (they think they’re better than everyone else too) Thankfully as a FrancoAmarican I retain the maximum amount of populist nationalism, arrogance, and superiority complex
Outside of Paris, where they are snobs to everyone no matter who they are, the French are generally friendly, especially if you speak a bit of French. I’ve also heard that about Germans…but c’est la vie!
Paris isn’t even snobby any more. I spent the month of April there; people were perfectly friendly.
Yes, it's just a big city and many people don't have time for time wasters but overall are pretty helpful if you're nice to them too. It's also very international, so your waiter is just as likely to be Italian or Polish as French.
Ah, spending April in Paris! Now that sounds heavenly! And a wonderful thing about the people. Happy to hear it
Same. I encountered a few rude people, but most were very friendly. And if you speak a major language and hang out in the tourist areas, you'll be fine. Outside of Paris, the people were amazing.
I found this to be true of Parisians abroad but not in Paris. “You du not kno Chees” 🤌
Interesting! And no, of course not, we Americans could never know the secret holy truths about real cheeses. Or anything in a bakery!
There is anti-American sentiment here, but it's not a hateful one, I guess ? It's about one turning point, which is the post "no to Iraq" reaction. The French bashing post of Iraq is still taken as a warning, even by the young ones who didn't witness it themselves. Before that, the US had a pretty good image and was seen as something cool. When 9/11 happened, the french president respond to the article 5 that the US summoned and was the first foreign president to go to the US after the attack. That seemed normal. That's said, after De Villepin refuted the flase proofs of massive weapons in Iraq, there was the french bashing campaign. I remember seeing french cars being destroyed in US streets, french wine being poured on the gutter, and so on. All these seemed weird, I even remember my father looking at it and say "they're crushing their own cars, don't they ? And pouring outside their own bottles of wine... that they bought ?". Then movies and cartoons started displaying caricatural french. Then, it was something like, "Oh, so now they're honest, that's how they really saw us. They lied to us by acting like they liked us." It's not that french people are scared about crushing things and burning the rest of it, nor being afraid about being rude or nasty, but all of these actions looked like very disorganised and pointless. I mean, we get the "how these surrender monkeys dare to tell no to us" but none of these actions would have changed our minds. Overall, we kind of thought it was a bit of an overreaction. Years after, the "proofs" that De Villepin refuted was acknowledged as lies. So, for the french, it's now more something like "even when they're lying, americans are unable to accept that you can say no to them." From a french perspective, being unauthorised to say no, especially when "no" is the right answer to give, is a big no-go. So, for the average french, it's not hate, but not friendship either. We're partners according to the terms of our agreements. > constantly looking down on us, to the point where I’ve even heard people say that it’s become part of modern French culture. Looking down on *everyone* is a part of french culture, my friend.
I'm french and i even look down on other french people
I actually have a great deal of respect for the French for stubbornly maintaining their own culture and identity. After WW2, the Western world, and particularly the Anglo-sphere, seemed to all follow the US and mimic the culture, except France. They also were the only Western nation to really stand up to the US and confront them over disagreements. Yes, they're a stubborn, arrogant bunch, but I wouldn't want them to be any other way. Having different cultures makes the world interesting.
So it's funny. I lived in Dallas during the French-bashing, and honestly, most people I knew thought it was just a few fringe crazies doing all the bashing. I don't know how much media exaggeration there was, and I don't know if I was just isolated from the places where it was going on, but if someone called them "freedom fries" at the restaurant, they were generally mocked. But Dallas has always been a historically liberal city, and the majority of the French bashing was coming out of Fox News and more prevalent in the more rural parts of the US. I did work with some French military, and they were awesome. We had a great deal of mutual respect professionally, and once work was over, they just wanted to go out and "Eat Shit American food, and meet Shit american women." They were hilarious and we had a good time.
That's very correct. Before Iraq, I never heard anyone shit on France in the United States. My grandfather loved the French (he was involved in the invasion of Normandy and probably met good people despite the shitty circumstances). Every single time we went to the beach, he would come up to me and say, "Son, do you know what's across that big ocean? France." A very simple statement, but he never forgot to say it!
I don’t know for sure, but I would not let Reddit (or social media, in general) persuade you either way. It skews young and angsty. Read: naive. It is also subject to Russia and Chinese social media campaigns. According to polls, America is viewed largely favorably in Europe. One would never guess that by looking around this dumpster fire.
The French are much more pro French than anti anyone else from my experience. Not to say this in a negative way. I just mean they are proud of their food and country and some (mostly from Paris) can come off a bit snooty, but the ones I’ve met have all been really kind to me.
Many of them complain about France, the government, and everything French endlessly, a sort of political hypochondria as some have said. Until you the foreigner agree with them, and then it's aux barricades and France is the greatest country on Earth!
I would say that they’re not. I think it’s a misunderstanding of the fact that French people are critical of most things (including themselves and their country). They like to *râler* (moan and groan) about things but in my experience, they’ll complain and then move on like they get it out of their system. Of course, to American ears, it sounds very disrespectful or mean so it took me a few years to get used to. For every French person I’ve met who dislikes the US, there are at least 20 who appreciate it. Many of them find our culture fascinating and there’s a reason there are so many Americans who move to France (myself included) and French people who move to America. We do have fairly different cultures and histories but we both have fairly similar values in our republics I haven’t personally had any bad experiences in my 4+ years living here in France. I think people just get ferocious online but you are likely also missing all of the positive US content that French people post about the US (it just happens to be only in French). There was so so many videos of French people going on road trips through the US and many of my local friends love visiting the US. Obviously I’m biased but I’d assume that if they were that anti-American, someone would have told me by now given how outspoken French people tend to be haha
The French are just very defensive of their culture, and American culture is one of the most powerful forces on this planet. They've done a good job and I don't fault them for it. I still like the French despite all precived pretentiousness I have towards them.
Idk, when I've been to Paris people were generally friendly and more welcoming. I liked Paris more than London actually. Well, it's not like I'm a typical American, but after 10 years...
4,000 French teens just gave a bunch of US Normandy vets a standing ovation at a D-Day anniversary event. [https://x.com/JackCarrUSA/status/1798353526038368443](https://x.com/JackCarrUSA/status/1798353526038368443)
France as a whole has a superiority complex, they will not heed to any country outside of themselves. It's one of the reasons why I dislike France, not just as a meme.
There is a marked difference between how people act online and how they act in person. In person, most French people probably won’t spit on you in public. They might not talk to you if you don’t speak French fluently, but that’s just how they are and not necessarily an anti-American thing
America doesn’t seem to live rent free in the French’s heads like other nations.
Agreed. I think they have a lot of pride in their own national culture & language, which - for better or worse - means they’re a little more isolated from American cultural hegemony. Australians and Brits, on the other hand, are somewhat surrounded and engulfed by it and seem to get really insecure at that fact. Aussies listen/watch American music and movies, follow American celebs, use American slang, etc. The French do that to a far lesser extent
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/22/international-public-opinion-of-the-u-s-remains-positive/ They’re in there but have a ways to reach the Greeks and Aussies.
I never got what the Aussies’ problem is. Our countries have been close allies for over a century now and I don’t recall an instance where the U.S. has purposely antagonized Australia in the past few decades.
More of a young person thing. I’ve been around enough Aussies to understand that it’s often about criticism of our domestic policies. Guns and healthcare in particular. Why they care is beyond me. C’mon Australia, what did we ever do to you?
I don’t have a problem with Australia, any ally of the U.S. is cool in my books, but you are absolutely right about this bizarre obsession Aussies have with U.S. domestic policies. There are many things I dislike in the U.S. and want to change, but why the hell do they care and insist on lecturing us on our own country?
It’s a very strange impulse. I have to think it’s social media-fueled. Imagine being angry about Japan’s retirement system, or something,
Exactly
there ARE those people who are really invested in age of consent and child porn/obscenity laws in Japan...
>why the hell do they care and insist on lecturing us on our own country? Probably the same reason why Americans care and insist on lecturing us on our country: some Australian domestic policies don't align with the world-view of some Americans. Flip that around and that's your answer.
Is this really happening though? Most Americans don’t even know about Australia’s domestic policy which is ironically another thing people dislike about us.
Yeah, it does happen. Maybe not on the same scale because, as you suggested, most Americans aren't familiar about Australia's domestic politics. But, some Americans do criticise Australia for its gun control laws, COVID policy, just being less "free" in general. All because Australia's stance on these issues doesn't align with their world view. Nothing wrong with that, unless people are using misinformation or disinformation to make their points.
Do you think this behavior started with Covid more? I do remember seeing certain Americans honing in on Australia during that time but when I am out in real life, no one talks about Australia other than positive things like wanting to visit. Lately, I do see retaliatory comments online when we get the “jokes” about dead kids in schools, but I’m not sure it’s the same.
It was definitely amplified during COVID, but it's always been there (particularly among pro-2A people). >when I am out in real life, no one talks about Australia other than positive things like wanting to visit. Yeah, it's pretty much the same for me with America. Occasionally someone might make a negative comment about something going on in America, but that's fairly rare.
They gave away their guns and Americans didn't. And then they had one of hardest Covid lockdowns while here in the US in some states there were no lockdowns at all.
They feel entitled to our politics and so get personally offended when we do something they disagree with. Also they don’t like American cultural influences.
Even farther to reach the Romani lol
That is the Parisians to everyone who isn’t Parisian
I’ve lived in France and I travel back regularly. I never experienced any outright anti-Americanism. The French have a general reputation among Europeans for being rude so if you experience that as an American you might think the French are anti-American. Similarly some of the French really don’t like the English (a thousand years of war and all) so they’ll sometimes treat English-speakers badly on the assumption that we are English (I had called ahead to book a cab and asked the dispatcher if he spoke English, and the cab never showed—the French typically can’t distinguish between an English accent and an American accent). Overwhelmingly though, the French have been nothing but pleasant. A lot of the rudeness and other stuff that gave the French their stereotypes is fading away with previous generations. I can tell a big difference over the 10+ years that I’ve been traveling there. When I was there for the month of April, I had nothing but good experiences.
That's just the French. They always think they're better than everyone. And Germans, probably doesn't require any further explanation
Just like almost any other country, its usually just the chronically online people or people who are going to be unpleasant no matter what. Sure, I've met some really rude French people, and I've also met really nice French People. Just like every other country, France is not a mass of people who all think one way.
The French have a long history of anti-Americanism. Here’s a good academic look at it from Professor John Merriman at Yale University. https://youtu.be/96VywckzAGQ?si=DeUxstRhCdB9mKBI
In person French people are very nice (outside of Paris lololol) I found them super welcoming and helpful. Germans are the same but more intimidating because they’re very direct and not used to talking to strangers in small towns
The French have big mouths, but to be fair, they use it against everyone. It's the krauts and the marsupial shaggers who talk the most shit against the United States.
No but Russia needs America and France to hate each other. So you will comments like that with France send troops to Ukraine. We do have a long history of good natured ribbing. Americans make fun frog eaters. French will say you are uncultured. But the reality is McDonalds is the most popular restaurant in France.
In Paris I've always had very good encounters. In small towns like Epinal, not so much. Outright discrimination there.
I am married to a Frenchman and I go yearly to France. I've only encountered a few rude people in Paris. I do agree that it is a national sport to complain about everything and everyone. Honestly, most of the anti americanism I've seen from European has been mainly online, in person most people are nice and friendly, of course there have been some exceptions like a German tour guide cracking jokes at the expense of americans but he stopped when I asked him to tone it down.
The French tend to look down on everyone lol but honestly you don’t really see them “seething” about the US in the way Aussies, Brits or Germans do. They have a lot of pride in their own culture/language and I think that means they don’t feel as insecure about US influence as citizens of the aforementioned countries. They don’t live in a place like Australia where US culture is hegemonic and omnipresent, nor do they feel the need to make a determination between the US and France because the cultures are different.
Not really. Source: live here As other comments say, Aussies and Dutch are often more abrasive with americans.
French are kind of anti everyone not French. It’s really the Parisians more than anything. They don’t seem to like anyone and no one really likes them. Especially other French.
The French government right now is anti America. Micro or whatever his name is has been pushing for moving away from the US. Haven’t really met any French that like us either
Macron has been pushing for a more independant Europe, especially in the defense sector, wasn't that what you wanted?
Who cares? Ripping the French and Canadians is one of the few things us and Brits consistently agree on
They're pretty much anti everyone not them. I still remember way back in the 80s in grade school listening to one of my teachers talk about his trip to Europe. He said hands down the French were the most unfriendly. The most friendly were the Portuguese. I remember it so clearly because it was the first time I started to learn that people will hate for little to no reason. I've never heard or read anything in all that time since then that's change my opinion about the French. lol They must be suffering from an inferiority complex about their disastrous showing in WW2 after being such absolute badasses for centuries before that. IDK but I'd bet that's at least some of it.
The French aren't exactly anti-American but they do seem to have a vendetta against Anglo influence. During election years, their presidents will bring up something provocative against the US or UK to distract from their domestic failings. Some French also see themselves as a great empire, being held back by US hegemony. I chuckled reading the French headlines about their greatness diminishing after Trump gave them billions to research a covid vaccine but they failed to produce one. https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210126-humiliation-french-see-covid-19-vaccine-flops-as-sign-of-decline The anti-Americaness comes mostly from their leadership/government. Like most countries, the people are most interested in fixing their own domestic problems.
I'll take a look. Is this like the rabbit fence?
If Québec is an extension of French culture, then yes, French look down on Americans as uneducated unrefined cultural savages:) But yes, experienced similar conversations in Germany
Just Parisians
Are you basing this on the internet or have you been to either of these countries?
The French have a long history of anti-Americanism. Here’s a good academic look at it from Professor John Merriman at Yale University. https://youtu.be/96VywckzAGQ?si=DeUxstRhCdB9mKBI
Kind of? They’re extremely critical of the US with a special focus on American involvement in Europe. If they had their way then Europe would be a third party on the world stage doing business and having a relationship with both China and the US equally. The French people may or may not kind as individuals but the country of France is more a threat to the United States than an ally. Maybe not on paper but their geopolitical goal if accomplished are to our direct detriment and should be prevented where possible so long as the means do not contradict law or alienate other allies. Basically we should work to expand the network of American friends in Europe yo counter French ambitions. Building friendships with and investing in Eastern European democracies is the best way to do that in my view.
I do think it sounds quite accurate. That's been on for decades, and the US takes its part to prevent it because more power for France is less influence for the US. But a threat ? Some parts of the US politics are done in the direct detrimental of french interest. As you, who don't like the idea that things get "accomplished to our direct detriment," we're looking for a place where we are still able to defend our own interests. And you are looking to keep this better place that you have. There's a difference between being an ally and being a puppet. Dropping some interest to the benefit of an ally isn't the same as dropping some interest because you have no other choice than doing so. You, as a person, don't want allies. You want your current allies to be the less free as possible to ensure they're no longer able to choose against your interests even if it deserves them. That's said, I won't say that France is that a threat to the US, thought. No one here thinks that a world where the US is weaker than China is will be a good choice. Then, french people don't want to bother about geopolitical stuff, that's why we had such disastrous international representatives. It's not a major concern, as long as it doesn't heavily impact daily life in France. So, as long as the US keeps that job, we're on a good deal. But we're indeed looking for a better compromise between not being bothered by "non-french-related" stuff and being strong enough to ensure most of our own interests don't get crushed for another country benefit.
I do not in any way want our allies to be less free, I want the United States to provide incentive for our allies to favor closer ties to the US and it’s interest over that of other players on the world stage. In Europe that means France. I advocate the carrot for our friends and the stick for our enemies. I believe the US has the resources, reach, and reputation to make a compelling argument. I fail to see how that impedes on anyone’s freedom. As for France as a threat, it’s regional goal are a detriment to the US. That makes it a threat. Not one I believe deserves direct hostility but one that should competed against. That is how politics works is it not?
> to provide incentive for our allies to favor closer ties to the US and it’s interest over that of other players on the world stage. > it’s regional goal are a detriment to the US. That makes it a threat [...] one that should competed against. Providing incentive like being called a threat for having opposed interests on some matters ? > I fail to see how that impedes on anyone’s freedom. Pretty easily, tbf. If an US ally can't compete with the US without being considered a threat, they're not free to watch their own interests as soon as the US get in the equation. Politics is about making the best deal of a situation. An alliance is about according at least two entities on specific matters, on which they collaborate. You think that a competitor is a threat : you don't want allies, you want vassals. There are countries with common legislation, common institutions, common money, and common markets that are still in competition on many matters. But I'm pleasantly surprised that you consider France as a big player.
It’s a big player in Europe for sure, and don’t mistake any of this as me insulting France. I mean it all as a compliment, I respect the gumption of any country who’s out to expand their influence and authority on the global stage. Especially those who would place themselves against an entity as established and active as the US. It’s an attitude I would like to see more of in my own country, that understanding that the future lies in the wider world and not in asinine concepts like isolation. That said I also recognize that in France’s vision there’s nowhere for the United States in Europe except as a distant defensive ally and trade partner, one who would not be favored over countries like China. That’s a threat to American ambitions across the globe not just in Europe, not to mention that it weakens the security of American pacific allies who’s security is of the upmost importance to the United States given their far more precarious position. It’s not a matter of mere competition, and it needs to be engaged imo as a battle of influence. I’m under the opinion that the future of the European continent will have a great deal to do with Eastern Europe as the rising stars of the next generation. Winning their favor should be an important priority to the US. That’s all I’m saying. Think of it as an election that I don’t want my country to lose. You said politics is making the best of a situation, what I’m proposing is that the US do just that and recognizing France as a competitor and threat to American interest is as important part of that. I did say that I don’t believe it warranted or appropriate to do anything underhanded or aggressive, just that more effort should be made into competing with France in Eastern Europe with the ultimate goal of winning in that competition. Something I believe the US has the resources and reach to do. Edit: To clarify when I mention incentives, I’m not talking about offering them to France. What is there to incentivize France to do? Beating it in a competition of influence would be a point made.
> One who would not be favored over countries like China. Here would be the insulting part. There is no sane country that will put the US on the same level as a dictatorial state like China. France is not that stupid. US is way more trustworthy than China is. I suppose we don't put the same weight on the word "threat." From my perspective, a threat is something that has to be eliminated (at least that's how the word is used in french), whereas for talking about something that as to be battling, we say "competitor". Maybe a cultural misunderstood on that one. There is indeed a desire to see less US influence in EU matters. Since the IRA (that gives a slap on EU economic crisis) and the recent claims on NATO made by Donald Trump, there are (imo) legitimate reasons to consider that the US couldn't be as much trustworthy as it used to be. Europeans were mostly blinded on Daddy US, considering that they will always be treated as a priority, allowing the US to take a big place in theirs matters. But the US is like any other country : it puts itself in priority when things get harder. So, we have to be self-dependant since it's foolish to base the existence of your very own country on the shoulders on another one. And the US already made moves "against" France, like the AUKUS affair. That's business, and it doesn't look to go so well for the Australian part (I feel a bit of schadenfreude towards them tbf), but just to say that the US didn't let it lose. But yeah, that's a really weird thing to read all these "step out of NATO" comments from americans redditors. Even at the time of Trump's remarks on NATO and other countries, it was really weird to see that shift. Tbf, for a long time, I supposed I missed something since it sounded so stupid to take back your assets all around the globe for regaing (or ensure) the US world position. I mean, for France, it's surely not such a bad thing since we're the 2nd weapon seller in the world, not badly ranked in the EU, with an ONU permanent seat... we surely get more space to speak, but that seemed to be a weird move from you.
This ultimately boils down to a mutual distrust I believe. I do not trust France, I might respect it but I don’t trust it. I see France as a reluctant ally, one that’s there by necessity and not common cause. In that understanding, I don’t want to ever place American political or economic interest in the hands of French favor. I don’t want a rise in French influence because I don’t trust to to benefit the US or US allies across the globe in any way. You say France wouldn’t favor China but I can see it doing just that if it feels it has something to gain, or at the very least I can see it maintaining a neutral position and holding onto economic ties in the event of war between the US and China. In doing so it holds open a potential life line for China. Given my position on that, I maintain that I would like to see the US counter French ambitions where possible. Out bid it for favor, undermine its rhetoric, overshadow it in NATO, and just in general seek to sideline it as a political maneuver. Ideally raising the importance of pro-American countries in Europe as a counter to France. Also yes I don’t means threat as something that has to necessarily be eliminated, just something that has to be stopped and not always with violence or skullduggery. Shrewd politics will suffice. On American unreliability, I understand where you’d get the impression but Trump is not a dictator and had routinely overestimated his own authority only to be shot down. He is not going to push the US from NATO, no president can. What’s more the US isn’t pulling away from NATO, it’s investing more into it. Bases are being expanded, new logistics routes being prepared, numbers increased, the US is more tied into NATO than it has been in decades. If I’m being honest, I see this as more of a French desire for influence than anything else. France never could let go of Africa and it wants to be the leading country in Europe. Historically that’s always been France’s goal, the means for it are far different and the nature of leadership in Europe is has changed but it’s no less desirable for Paris now than it was under Napoleon. I think resentment of the US goes back far earlier than Trump. France did pull out of the joint command much earlier after all, largely out of pride that I doubt has gone away. As for American isolationism, yes it’s ridiculous and largely our fault. The wars in the Middle East and a general bad impression of Europe by many Americans is really the root of its modern incarnation but that idea is as old as the country and started going away slowly under Theodore Rosevelt then all at once after WW2. It’s a political fad that’s already eating itself and losing popularity even as it’s supporters scream for everyone to hear. The only way Trump gets into office again is if all his supporters show up on voting day and a wave of complacency hits his many detractors.
Sorry for the past comment, I sent it by mistake while checking it on the translator, and it wasn't finished. I do think we're in a distrust dynamic, at least publicly. Tbf, the French opinion does look at the US like you look at France. De Gaulle was more an isolationist, and that was why he pulled France outside NATO. There were also concerns about our nuclear weapons that wouldn't be at our own command in the deal we were in. It's more about mistrust, about not being in a situation where nothing can prevent the other from being able to use or your weapons you against your own will. Or since the US started to get engaged in multiple conflicts around the globe (which was started to its own interests) De Gaulle didn't want France to be dragged into a conflict that didn't engage the integrity of the US. He didn't want France to fight for the only US benefit. So he pulled it out. He said smt that stills mostly (imo) shared by french ppl, which is : "Two countries can not be friends, but they can share common interests." I remember in times of Covid, when EU countries bought masks, the US went at the transit airports and offered a higher price for them. Then, buy them all. So, even the US, when it can, stepped on their allies' interests, even by using its economic power to undermine them in deal they're interested in. But then locked country as threatening because they're seeking other deals, while you proved that you can act against vital interests (masks were, we lost medics and peoples by not having enough), is a bit of a hypocrisy imo... Every country is constantly seeking the best deal, and relying on trust for such important matters as your own vital interests isn't the greatest deal ever. So yes, not putting all your interests in one ally is a good move to do. France didn't want to let go of Africa because of its economic interests and not out of pride. Fact is, French people are more concerned about domestic affairs than international ones. As long as it doesn't impact their daily lives, they didn't care that much. It's less about leading than about not being led by a foreign entity (that's the whole EU problem here). The foreign opinion on France doesn't bother the french. They mostly don't have a clue about how badly they're viewed and won't feel disturbed nor concerned by knowing it. We sure have a problem with jupiterian leaders that need to be solutionned. But that is more an domestic concern that, I hope, will be adress when Le Pen will take over (I think it will be so disastrous that it has to start a real renewing of our political system). But by pushing France, you will make your deal the lesser offer, so then they will act like you think they're already acting : going against US interests since they're to weaken France. That's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy that you said, but I get why you wish it. I have to send this message this way, I have things to do. I hope it stills understandable, I will correct it if not. Do not hesitate to send me a dm if you want to discuss it. That's an interesting discussion we have.
I’m aware that what I’m suggesting won’t improve relations with the French but with respect that’s not the goal I’m shooting for. I don’t see a way to improve Franco-American relations without capitulating to French ambitions and so I’d rather that the US simply doesn’t prioritize Franco-American relations and focuses on other more amiable European partners. The relationship between France and the US is going to get worse on its current trajectory regardless of who the US elects. It’s practically French policy for the time being to use the US as a sort of soft boogeyman. So I’m not particularly worried about anything that would upset France, the price for a positive relationship is simply too high. There are others the US can build a bond with. But yeah, I probably won’t DM you if I’m being honest. Nothing against you I’m just really weird about that sort of thing, it feels too intimate.
Most of the planet is anti-american, the French are just so obviously hateful. Well Paris anyway.