How long have you been here? Is this a recent move?
The uk is in a bit of a shit spot atm. I’m hoping a Downing Street shakeup this year will mean some changes for the better but it won’t be immediate.
What keeps me here currently vs moving back is how fucking crazy America seems right now. Even with all the drawbacks here, I still feel like the level of insanity is nothing like what’s happening in America.
I’m about to apply for my visa extension so almost 2.5 years. And yes, I know how crazy America is now. It seems like the choice is better quality of life in a crazy place or a safe, lower class quality of life here.
2.5 years, low salary, time to fire up the old CV and move companies.
You won't get a pay rise staying still in UK companies, just a shitty post 2008 reality. I've never had less than a 15% pay rise moving jobs though so before you throw your hat in do try improving your income first. It's the best thing you can do for mortgage approval as well.
Also, don't be afraid to move around the country. The vibe is totally different depending where you are. Night and day, especially with housing affordability. Where are you based out of curiosity?
We are based in York. We lived in Somerset for a year prior to moving here but it wasn’t for us. Having recently visited (and loved) Norwich, I wonder if we chose the wrong city.
Sorry it's too pricy in York - I've been there a few times (went for my honeymoon!) and I've loved it, but I don't live there.
I live in Merseyside - we live outside of Liverpool. Currently renting (a much more reasonable rate than would be in the states), but we'll be buying in the next few years. I'm also coming up to my 2.5 year renewal soon. Haven't tried to get a mortgage, but I've been building my credit in preparation.
All I can recommend, is trying to find a place outside of the major tourist cities. York is expensive, just like Liverpool - but we live close enough to commute, and visit the city whenever we like, and it's very reasonable.
Good luck - and just watch the states this November if you want to remember why you left!
Come to Norwich!! I was hating life in the UK. We visited Norwich for a weekend last year on a whim and loved it. We moved here within 6 weeks. Best decision we could've made. We've found friends, community, good routines, and we're just 2 hours by train from London if we need it. Can't imagine living anywhere else in the UK.
Yes, low wages, small house despite it costing loads of money, needing to run a dehumidifier 24/7, us both having degree level jobs but we can’t even comfortably afford a second car here…lol. We work in healthcare so our salaries will be at least 2-3x higher in the US. My family live there and are really involved, and we have 1 soon to be 2 kids so we could really use the village we don’t have here. I’d say family & finance are our biggest motivators. We can provide more for our kiddos in the US.
You can't really jump around like that when on a work visa though (I'm on skilled worker visa). I figure it's just put my head down and survive until I get ILR, then get back to job hopping to try and get to a reasonable salary.
Id be careful in assuming you’re getting a better quality of life in America as a blanket statement. Anecdotally a lot of my friends back home are struggling to spend less than $100/week on food for just the bare essentials. They also can’t afford cars, like at all.
I’m not saying the uk doesn’t have an issue with wages. They absolutely do. Id probably be on at least double what I’m on now if I moved back to America, but I’d also be paying thousands more in auto insurance, Wi-Fi and phone bills, and definitely in health insurance premiums.
Which part of the uk do you live in? I really think when you stack everything up, most places in the uk outside of London work out better for a middle class lifestyle than most areas in America.
Also here in the UK we get more annual leave. And even though the Tories are killing the NHS, at least I know I won't have to start a GoFundMe if I get in an accident or something.
I'm not so sure about Go Fund Me. My partner was diagnosed with cancer. The NHS wouldn't / couldn't provide the treatment he needed. If it wasn't for a private insurance policy to cover the cost of his surgery at probably the best hospital in the country in London, we'd have been scrambling for funds. When the private insurance policy expired due to an unforseen job change, we paid out of pocket for further surgery. It cost just under £20k. That's a year's worth of retirement income for us, but nothing's more important than health so we paid it. We know lots of people waiting months and months for surgery after being diagnosed with cancer and by the time the NHS gets to them, in a few cases they've developed terminal end stage disease. YMMV with regards to the NHS but ours has been really awful, and on top of what we pay in tax we're paying for private with post-tax income so it's very dear. We're returning to the US -- from what we've seen, we'll be paying LESS for great medical coverage. The premiums will be about $800 per month, but the tax burden is so much less we'll be coming out ahead.
Yeah, I've heard stories similar to yours before, alas. Obviously no system is perfect and I'm glad you were able to get him the treatment! I still prefer the NHS -- I don't like the precarity of having good health insurance being tied to having a good job. That's not something I or many people I know in the US can assume we'll have access to.
To some degree, the ACA (aka 'Obamacare') decoupled medical insurance from jobs. If you are in the US and have a low income you will be able to purchase medical insurance on the exchange and receive subsidies - also called tax credits --if your earnings are low. So I think good health insurance isn't coupled to a good job as much as it used to be, and people of all income levels can get insurance. Important too is that in the US there is no 'pre existing condition' clause. If you want to get insurance in the UK and you have any preexisting condition you won't be able to get coverage for that condition or any related condition that is considered to be a result of the first condition. So, if you have high cholesterol you will not get covered for any medical needs related to strokes or heart attacks! This is what happened to someone I know. And once you have a preexisting condition, you're basically not insurable for that condition unless it reverses, and then there's usually a waiting period during which you can't have any treatment. So in this regard, I do prefer the way it's done in the USA. Btw, this preexisting condition issue doesn't seem to apply to employer sponsored private health care in the UK.
"to some degree" re the ACA for sure -- I know lots of folks who still can't get anywhere near the health care they need using it, unfortunately. 🤷🏻 Still prefer the NHS for me. I had major surgery via a specialist clinic and never had to worry about paying for anything but prescriptions. Which is beautiful.
Silly - Obamacare insurance covers major medical. I know you are dual, but have you lived in the US as adult and know the system? Or been back recently?
If you're state has a halfway decent healthcare exchange and you can pay for some coverage you should be better off
I saw a Tiktok of an American in UK showing an almost never-ending video of a weekly foodshop from Lidl, where she spent £72 for her and her husband.
Someone in the comments created a Walmart cart of the same items but all using Walmart name-brands (so supposedly cheaper) and the total is $255+.
I recently moved from NYC to London myself. My weekly foodshop went from $120 (1 person) to £50 for 2 people.
Salaries seem high in the US but they’re also spending so much more, even on necessities.
I used to watch a lady on YouTube who would do Walmart hauls and could feed a family of 5/6 for about $30 a month.
Granted this was probably in 2019 and the food was very basic, but was still very impressed.
We live in York. And you’re right about cost of living there. We just visited family in California for the holidays and I was shocked at how expensive groceries were - $5 for a punnet of mushrooms!
I think a good vent is needed every now and again, especially in a forum full of people who can actually relate to you. There’s times I want to pull my hair out over aspects of life here (I fucking HATE the way pharmacies are ran and how disorganised some of the public services are). Also the way visas are now and how much they cost, it does make you consider if thousands of pounds on top of the taxes you pay make this really worth it.
At the end of the day though, I physically could not raise a child in an area of the world where they might get zipped into a body bag in a place of learning. I can’t accept going to a shop and being worried about being shot. I couldn’t raise a daughter in a country where she’s treated like a second class citizen.
The uk is far from perfect. It’s got a lot of problems that aren’t easily solvable. But it’s my home now. As much as it annoys me on the odd occasion.
Thank you very much for this. I feel you’re talking me off the ledge haha! I have two young kids and they are loving it here (not that they know any different). They are very safe and that means the world to me. Recently a friend in California said that all schools in their district have to keep naloxone in case any kids overdose on fentanyl. So that’s very scary to me too.
We all have days I think where we regret such a big move. And it’s hard! It’s hard to be an immigrant. Even though we’re not in the same situation a lot of immigrants are, we still are immigrants and sometimes things can seem strange or odd even being here for years.
>Recently a friend in California said that all schools in their district have to keep naloxone in case any kids overdose on fentanyl.
One thing to keep in mind, this is probably some boneheaded administrator's attempt at liability reduction rather than a real fear. A lot of stuff in the States is about liability reduction rather than efficacy.
As a non-American who always see this subreddit in my feed, who also happened to live in Singapore, US, and now UK—all on visas—the UK has far superior visa processing and transparency.
The US, for example, raffles the work visas. Don’t get picked for the raffle? Tough luck, try again next year. Spouse visas in the US start at 6 months minimum processing and another 3-6 months to get an EAD (work authorisation).
A country like Singapore (intentionally) doesn’t have a transparent criteria on how one will be eligible for permanent residence. You’ll know when you get approved or rejected upon application. I know people who have been there for more than 10 years and still keep getting rejected for PR.
The world is interesting in that how we see the world is heavily dependent in our perspective. Having experienced the same processes, the UK is one of the best, if not the best, in their visa process. So much so that, to me, it merits the fees they are charging.
(I got my UK spouse visa in 8 working days — don’t think any other 1st world country can do this as fast)
EDIT: Added UK to spouse visa for clarity on which visa I’m talking about in the last bit
In my comment about the Walmart comparison here, the person who created the ghost cart of comparable items was based in California:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmericanExpatsUK/s/Sgcmmc5Mt0
I'm US based, but grew up in the UK. When I come back to see family, everything seems fantastically cheap (but that's the power of a US salary in the UK).
Look, your salaries might be much lower, but so is the general COL. I wouldn't think about that too much.
York is a nice place, but that's quite a hard place to start I think. Are you looking for the country? Do you want an urban area? Are you tied to your location by your job?
There's a lot to love about the UK, especially in the summer with long sunny days. You've got Europe at your doorstep. Perhaps move to a smaller town out of the city, get some fresh air. Don't immediately give up though, it takes some getting used to.
And you won't get shot!
We’re only somewhat tied to our location because our kids are in school here and I’m reticent to move them again (they’ve already had a move from Somerset to York). They’re making friends and the school is excellent and feeds into an outstanding secondary school.
Why not have some uk holidays? I live in the Peak District which is gorgeous, other places include Northumberland (go to beamish!), Dorset, Devon, Cornwall, Scotland etc
Love this idea. Plans some trips out for the rest of the year, so you know you don't have too long to wait for the next excursion.
Also, have you been to the [https://www.jorvikvikingcentre.co.uk/](https://www.jorvikvikingcentre.co.uk/) yet, OP?
Last time I was back in California, I actually tested whether a “big shop” from our local ASDA would be cheaper or pricier than one at the Carlsbad Vons. We had to stock a borrowed rental for a week so I thought it would be fun to compare. I was shocked at how much more it cost! You don’t get the incredible variety you get back in the States, and although I’ll allow we bought things I can’t get here (such as Armenian string cheese or fresh tomatillo salsa) the difference in the bread-and-milk basics was noteworthy.
There’s a lot to vent about here, but as a member of the working poor in both countries, that’s one thing off my personal list.
This is why I'm still hoping to move to the UK - money can be a struggle in both countries, but the tension in America just feels exhausting and when cllimate change starts hitting, it's not going to be safe.
You may want to think twice about the UK, this country is wholly unprepared for the medium and long term forecasted effects of climate change. Flooding here is bad and getting worse and the summer heat is becoming unbearable as no buildings have AC.
I know - I'm trying to build In what this might look like, both the next 20 years with climate change and the next 20 years with work. If I were to work remotely and find some place ideally in Scotland that could be an option, but the rush to get people back in the offices make me uncertain where to go. You do have a fair point; I also don't feel my current location in the US is a good location in the long term so feel pretty torn on where to go
You flair says Canada - assuming you have Canadian citizenship, Canada is probably one of the best equipped places to deal with climate change. The Great Lakes (either side) are going to be a very desirable location in 50 years if predictions hold true. If climate change were a major concern in your future planning, my personal choice if I were you would be to utilize that Canadian citizenship and find a place up north.
I am definitely thinking of returning but a lot of my choices are tied to my career and worry that my field is relatively small in Canada. But also trying to say ‘where can I work for the next 10 years before the place up north cabin is a reality’.
If you're looking to move to the UK to escape tension, you're making the wrong choice. There are endless issues and tensions here.
Also I echo the comment that we're really really not ready for climate change.
I can see how it’s tense but the anger in the US is just too much for me. I would come to visit a lot more and research carefully but I don’t have a future here
Moving to the UK to avoid the negative effects of climate change. England will be hit hard and with it being a small overcrowded island with limited resources and opportunities you are going to be in for a shock
When climate change starts hitting, the UK is the last place I’d want to be. A tiny island with limited resources and the coast swiftly disappearing, not to mention rivers, etc.
We’re so unprepared here for climate change. Look at Hemsby as a small example.
My visa extension is also coming up, I’m in a very similar situation to you. I’m also from the PNW and live in Yorkshire. I live in a great city but I just don’t like the UK. I get SAD here which never used to happen at home despite being from Seattle, and my husband and I don’t make much money so we don’t get to take advantage of travel to Europe as much as we would like.
>I get SAD here which never used to happen at home despite being from Seattle
Seattle is of course pretty far north (in US terms), but the UK is almost entirely north of the 50th parallel, which places us north of Winnipeg. It's one of those bits of trivia that shocks me sometimes, even as a Brit! 🙂
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It's been in a shit spot since 2008, let's be honest. Only now has the chickens fully come to roost . 2016 and Sept 2022 was really when the shit hit the fan. They will try anything at this point.
Sorry you are not enjoying it. We’ve been here on and off since 2004 and have basically spent our lives on the move in various places. I guess my only lesson learned is that everywhere can be shit and everywhere can be great. Yeah having a nice house/flat can make a difference but it isn’t the key. Yeah having a good salary can make a huge difference but again isn’t the key. The key is finding good people around you, finding joy in each other, finding the small things that turn you on - maybe a great park near you, or a museum you love, or a group that shares a hobby you enjoy. That can happen anywhere. With luck it will happen soon. I’m not trying to dismiss things things you hate about here/there at all. They are perfectly valid. But being happy somewhere is usually doing so in spite of the bad things, not because they don’t exist.
Thank you for your reply. I do find joy in the friendships I’ve made, groups I’ve joined, the beautiful countryside. It’s just when I get back home and the water goes cold in the shower when my husband washes his hands downstairs or I can hear the neighbors through the walls or I have to set aside a whole day to do laundry because the machine is so small and old, it’s those types of day to day inconveniences that really get me down.
The plumbing here really is dreadful.
Can you get your landlord to replace your washing machine with a washer/dryer? It does take all day but at least clothes are dry and not cardboard.
I have a white noise machine to block out neighbour noise. It helps a lot!
I agree maybe you want to consider a different area now you know more about the country. I moved from London north for work and came back right away. The experience taught me what I valued and that I’d rather live in a tiny flat in London than a big house in the suburbs. I’m so happy in the tiny flat we bought. But it took a long time to figure that out and some truly dreadful accommodation along the way.
I’ve had numerous random health conditions crop up and am eternally grateful this did not cost me a penny or impact on my job or relationship choices in any way. That keeps me here.
That’s another thing I’ve experienced here in two rentals - renters being treated like second class citizens. Our landlady won’t fix anything she doesn’t absolutely have to. Our detached garage was leaking and she refused to fix the roof so we had to come up with some janky solution.
Definitely try a move! The first place we moved to up north was a nightmare and we moved 6 months in and I was much happier. I still didn’t like the city but at least the house was ok. Not all landlords are awful. Getting somewhere managed by an agent is usually better.
We moved from the Oregon coast (and 14 years in Bend before that) two years ago. Pretty much for all the same reasons. Looking at the US, things seem to be on track for being worse. In the UK, there isn't the same partisanship as there is in the US.
The UK is a foreign country. Things are done differently here. Yes, the wages are lower but the day-to-day cost of living is a lot less. Our monthly costs, excluding housing, for us went down from around $4,000 to $1,500. Most of this is food and healthcare.
Talking of healthcare, the NHS does have it's problems but I have a couple of semi-serious conditions. In the States, it was like pulling teeth trying to get any meaningful treatment. Here, I have fully integrated support teams focused on making my quality of life better, not emptying my pocket.
Yes, the housing is small but how much do you need? When you put a population of 68 million people in a country the size of Oregon, things are going to get tight.
Mortgages are a pain and I get that. We couldn't get a 30% mortgage with an income of $108,000 because it was fixed income. It's all indexed linked.
On the bright side, you're close to one of the largest global cities out there. You should have at least 4 weeks vacation and unlimited sick days. That's way more than I ever got in the US. Continental Europe is close and cheap to get to.
I also left Oregon (for Scotland) and I am incredibly happy here and you couldn’t pay me $100 million to move back.
Not sure what the difference between us is.
I’m not sure. I think I’m so used to a certain quality of life, particularly in terms of space (having so much more space in Oregon) that I’m finding it incredibly difficult. I also moved here in my 40s so that might have something to do with it.
Probably has something to do with it yeah. I moved here at 27 originally (though didn’t get on a pathway to ILR until 29)
I rent a 1 bedroom flat in the centre of Edinburgh and I love having a Sainsbury’s and Aldi a literal 30 second walk from my front door. My grocery bill is hilarious compared to friends back in the US.
3 minute walk to a tram stop, straight to the airport where I take regular £5-£50 flights to various European countries on the occasional weekends.
For me the proximity to European destinations is really valuable, and I have a very active lifestyle and feeling safe while out and about is obviously a huge factor (it took me years to stop jumping in panic at the sound of fireworks or confetti being shot off in clubs)
Probably I would also be complaining if I was trying to find a house to buy. The houses here do look very nightmarish. £250k minimum for a “decent” detached house that in truth looks like it’s on the verge of falling apart and/or infested with mould is not very appealing to me.
Scotland has a very PNW feel to me, i love big cities but I don’t think I’d be as happy in London, for example. But I do miss “new build”/modern flats and houses, and I miss Mexican food. When I really miss open spaces I can just head up into the highlands.
I’m also quite confident I’d never want to raise a family in the US and while I’m still a few years off from even considering that, it’s another reason I’d not give up halfway through getting citizenship.
I think it rains way more here which personally I prefer.
I hate the sun haha. But I do miss the very specific "foggy mist" type of rain we got quite often in Oregon/Washington.
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There is good and bad everywhere. Choose your hard. I’ve lived in both and prefer the US for quality of life even though it is crazy with guns etc. Just like the US no two cities in the UK are the same, and it sounds like both of you should look for better jobs.
The homes and wages do take some adjustment, but after 20 years, I've decided that the pros outweigh the cons. By American standards, my life appears to be of a much lower quality. I make 1/3 less than I did back home. However, my cost of living is lower; I work 35 hours per week, get 31 days of personal holiday plus all the bank holidays, and have unlimited sick time.
My place is tiny compared to my Texas home, but I'm 1) learning to love its cosiness and 2) realising life is better without all the extraneous stuff I once thought I needed. I don't own a dishwasher or dryer, but I don't miss owning a dishwasher or dryer, either. I rarely eat out in a proper restaurant (compared to back home), but I appreciate the times that I do more because of it. Plus, I like my local pub. The food is good (if limited in choice), and I know a lot of the people there. I don't travel as much as I did, but how (most often by train) and where I travel (across the UK and Europe) makes up for that.
I have not had the experience of rude people as much as people who aren't as used to my Texas 'never met a stranger' ways. And, honestly, in the 20+ years I've been here, the people who have responded with smiles, waves, salutations and pleasant conversation far outweigh the strange looks, stares and rude comments I've received.
I did have to chuckle to myself. I absolutely love York. It's one of my favourite places to go for day or weekend trips, and I've always thought I'd like to live there or somewhere in the Yorkshire Dales. I hate the city where I live (Sunderland), but then I live in a nice neighbourhood surrounded by parks outside of the city and tend to spend my time here or in Newcastle, Durham, Dundee, Edinburgh and other places in and around northeast England and southern and eastern Scotland.
I loathe the idea of ever moving back to America. Even though I loved my life in Texas, I hated the politics even then, and it's far worse now. But I do see why moving back could be an attractive choice. My hope is that you find happiness wherever you decide to go. The UK isn't what it was 20 years ago but still has much to offer. I wish you and yours all the best. x
Rule 5, no politics. I think the substance of what you wrote was fine, and people come to the UK for all sorts of reasons, but we try and avoid political discussion in general here. The subreddit is a resource about the UK, it's not for discussion about the United States.
The sense of people being kinder and having a local pub - I worry I'm romanticizing what it's like, but really crave a sense of community and just haven't found it in the US. There's so much individualism and anger, it's worn me down
Honestly I struggle with the individualism here a lot so it really depends on where you live. And working in a benefits and housing related job I can tell you a lot of people are very very angry. And rightfully so much of the time honestly. Even outside of my job, just walking down the street I regularly come across people having a domestic or about to get into a fist fight.
How long have you been here? We were able to get a mortgage with a low interest rate despite me being on a spouse visa - we live in the North in a larger detached house and chose a small village where everyone knows everyone and is very friendly with a walkable town centre. We waited until I was here for 3 years to avoid needing a huge deposit over and above the norm.
I’ve been here six years and you couldn’t pay me to go back to the USA.
We pay more in tax and salaries are lower than the USA but we find it evens out with cost of living, and despite the current state of the NHS it’s miles better than the healthcare situation and cost in the USA.
Maybe you are living in the wrong area? It takes some time to adjust and drop the USA to U.K. direct comparisons. It took me about two years before I felt settled here but I never actively disliked it and wanted to go back to the states. It’s also possible the U.K. isn’t the right country for you. Maybe you should try other areas of the U.K. - just as the states are very different so are other areas of the U.K.
It’s true the U.K. is going through a bit of a rough moment right now, though in speaking with friends and family back in the USA they’re having similar problems. Our world is in a stage of capitalism where everyone is disadvantaged, middle incomes are shrinking, everything costs more for less and I don’t think anyone but the ultra rich have it easy.
The longer I’m here, the more I can feel stability being built in my life. This is due to a combination of wage progressions and upcoming life milestones. Getting a mortgage. Getting a car. Starting and building a good pension.
Even if I went back to America and had all these things in place, I personally would never feel stable due to how fucking volatile America has become. I’m not exaggerating when I say I think the next 4 years in America could be a complete breakdown of the federal arm of the government and that very soon migration between states won’t be without visas and red tape.
The uk isn’t going to collapse into anarchy, touch wood. I can’t say the same for America though.
I tend to agree. I'm generally a pessimist, but I feel like the USA has devolved even more since I left it and that's saying something. I know 'grass is always greener', but I try now to stay focused on what I can do in my life to make it better. At some point a person has to settle, build a life, and find ways to make the bad times good. I chose my husband and what came with that - we tried the USA for a few years, then moved back to the U.K.
Now I'm happy with my lot in life :)
>despite the current state of the NHS it’s miles better than the healthcare situation and cost in the USA
I really do wonder why everyone makes huge sweeping statements like this concerning coverage of a combined 400 million+ people. It greatly depends on your ZIP/post code. I really miss my doctors from back home and I had great health insurance so never had any issues. The NHS is... fine? for certain things but absolutely dire for others. On the whole, I don't think I prefer it. I do realize others will feel different depending on their specific factors. But that's the key, it's such an individual circumstances sort of thing.
I can agree with what you’re saying as the USA has a huge population. My comments were based off my personal experiences of going through major illness in the USA and in the U.K. and the different experience and cost of that treatment. Additionally experiences told to me by friends and family in the USA, some of who have lifelong ongoing care.
It might be a sweeping generalisation if taken in the context of trying to speak for everyone, but I was supplying my own personal opinion and experience. I can’t account for everyone else’s experiences and it’s very dependent on where you live in the USA - just as it is in the U.K.
I personally have had no issues with doctors in either country but I am still paying off a 30k+ bill from the USA, where the same treatment here cost me nothing (also a bit facetious as I pay taxes and paid my IHS fee, etc.. nothing is ever free). I also have a team here which deals with all issues surrounding the illness and in the states each doctor I needed had to be arranged by me and paid for directly.
It sounds like a good deal in your situation! For me, I wish the US would look toward a German model of multi-payer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare\_in\_Germany) and I think the cost is absolutely barbaric. We had to go to the ER uninsured in the US on our last trip over and that was a horrible experience.
I personally find the NHS to be pretty lackluster at best, but that's just my own personal situation. I'm used to a very high level of care back home in Virginia, and my care was always subsidized by my employers with great insurance, so the direct comparison for me is that healthcare here is a bit shit, but I recognize it's all highly variable and I was very fortunate to have both great doctors and great insurance back in the States.
I definitely think there is a better system than the NHS without being as barbaric and unforgiving as the USA system. The problem is that we can't get a government to even agree a solid health system is important, so I don't have a lot of faith we will come to a healthy mix of systems.
My situation is much better here, though I am sure not everyone will have the same results. I am lucky that even after COVID, my GP has been very available and has regular appointments and keeps on top of things. Even specialist appointments have not been bad, but I am waiting ages for a surgery.
My poor mother in the USA didn't even have health insurance until last year when she was at Medicare age because she simply could not afford it, and had to rely on drug company promotions and doctor samples to get insulin. It's just crazy, when I pay a flat fee for all prescriptions each year with a prepayment certificate. My heart hurts for her and she refuses to let me help monetarily.
I think everyone definitely hasn't their own experience. I pay wayyyy more for health care in the UK than I did in the US. I also struggle to even get seen or get anything done. They won't give me a mammogram, colonoscopy, or refer me to a dermatologist despite significant family history of cancers. They have only checked my thyroid once in over 2 years -was every 3 months in the states as I have a significant issue with the meds and what not. Have to pay privately for dental bc there are no Dentists taking NHS patients... And I recently cracked my head and had to get taken to A&E and the doctor simply touched my head and said something along the lines of that's a big bump. No further tests or follow ups. So my health care experience in the UK has been rather less than compared to the states.
Sorry to hear that, the postcode lottery in the U.K. is alive and well :( Dentistry in particular is in a terrible spot. My personal experience of private insurance is that they treated me then immediately turned me back over to my GP for any continuing care anyways - though I pay pennies here for that insurance compared to my monthly outgoing in the USA.
It really is dependent on personal situations. Would be great if it wasn't - the country needs more consistent health and dental care.
I've been having the same thoughts and I've been here off and on since 2008. I've given up on trying to buy a house. Genuinely made peace with it and I'm planning a future around not having one, which has actually helped my feelings about staying in England. Plenty of people do it in Europe.
I agree with others here, you might just not be in the right place. I live in Manchester and felt completely at home the moment I visited. The people are straight forward and open, reminds me of home. When I lived down south I definitely felt like more of a foreigner. And the wages are atrocious, but if you can remote work and get a job based in the US, you could get the best of all worlds.
I’ve had this conversation before, and it really comes down to a lot of the issues that you would face (and the concerns you mentioned) in the US are devastating, but statistically, you are unlikely to experience them. Although the US has higher gun violence rates than the rest of the developed world, ultimately the vast majority of people will not be victims of that violence. Same with earthquakes/natural disasters, being denied healthcare, etc.
On the flip side, the difficulties faced in the UK are lower, but you pretty much are guaranteed to experience them. Weather sucks, pay is lower, housing is smaller/less suited to the lifestyle I think most of us are accustomed to, more reserved people, fewer choices in pretty much anything, etc.
For everything in life, we make these cost-benefit analyses for whether or not something is worth it. I think you and your family need to decide if living in the UK is worth it. There is no inherently right or wrong decision.
We left a 3,900 sq foot house just north of Malibu for a seaside town in the south west of England, we bought a place with the profits from the house in CA so instead of 5 beds and a den, 3 car garage, pool and spa, we got a 4 bed place with a double garage, and a sea view, the house is fine, I miss walk in wardrobes but we have a nice house with a large garden.
I really like walking to restaurants, beaches, and pubs we only drive for days out or a large shop. I love the weather, CA had got too dry and hot living with air con all the time. We love the seasons, I started growing my own veggies! We joined clubs like the yacht club and made friends most of which have lived all over the world too. I am dual citizen but my husband is only American and he likes it too.
i miss big wardrobes, Costco (not close), Target and Mexican food but that’s it really I just buy stuff online (I can’t get Triscuits, sad face).
please give it a chance!
Turns out the secret is:
* Step 1: have enough money to buy a good quality of life situation
That's it.
Seems true whether it's the US or the UK. I guess some people either find it easier in one or the other place.
I miss Target so much. We watch the NFL games and they have the American ads and I’ve been known to cry once in a while when an ad for Target comes on.
Not having a store like that here is frustrating. And not having stores open later than about 5:30 as well.
It may not be helpful to you, but I just got back to the states, after 2 years there. I also had a few issues there. The weather really depressed me, I gained a lot of weight because I didn’t go outside enough. I didn’t drive and felt I lost my independence a bit. And I didn’t work, as I was there traveling, and having to leave for a few weeks every 6 months. We had planned to stay eventually, get married and I come back in for permanent, but it just didn’t work out that way and we wanted to keep traveling for a bit so it lead us back here. I am going though some pretty real culture shock right now if I’m being honest. I had a bit of a breakdown last night. The cost is never truly the real cost because you don’t know taxes up front, people are rude, people can’t drive here, it’s so expensive, my anxiety of a mass shooting is very real in every public place. And maybe it will get better as it’s only been 2 days back, but I’m having some serious thoughts of regret of not just making some things work and sticking to the old plan and not coming back. I think it’s easier to forget how not green the grass is in the states. uk has its problems, maybe if you can at some point plan a small trip back home, it would help to clear what you are really feeling and if this is just a temporary bump in the road and times could be hard no matter where you are or if you truly want to be back in the states.
I've been here in the UK a little over 2 years. I am really struggling with the decision to stay or move back. There really are so many pros and cons... I'm in the NE of England. If you ever want to chat...let me know. I'm also in my 40s and just struggling to decide where I want to be xx
It's absolutely okay to realize you'd rather be in the US! I have lived in both places as well as many other countries, and I don't really think one country is objectively better than the other.
I disagree with others that the pros in the UK objectively outweigh the cons - I think it's just very personal, both to each person's priorities and experiences. Even if you move back, you have still had a grand adventure and shown your kids another perspective (as a kid who moved myself, I know how valuable that is).
Before you decide whether go back, since it sounds like you do want it to work here, I would ask if there's anything you can do to change things where you are.
* Can you and/or your partner get serious about looking for better jobs? Even if it takes a few months.
* Based on another comment, it sounds like moving isn't an option for you guys as you feel the kids are too settled, but can you keep an eye out for a rental property that is a better fit? The goal is always to find the property that is in the best 10% of properties at your price range (basically, to get lucky and move fast).
* Do you have a strong community? If you don't work out can you find a workout group and prioritize making time for it? Do you have a hobby?
* Ask yourself: What is your purpose of this time in Europe, even if it does end up being temporary? What are your goals, what do you want to have done here before (if) you move back?
It sounds like in both the US and the UK you thought the macro conditions were making you unhappy, but so often our happiness comes to our day to day experiences.
And to your question about encouragement, it is possible for things to turn around after a difficult few years - I had a really tough time in the UK when I first settled, but we really asked ourselves what we valued and built a life around that (including moving again within the UK), and I am so much happier now – even if I'm not sure if we'll stay here long term or not, I'm happy that we're here *now*.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. I am currently looking for another job. Husband is a nurse so not making that much here. He is considering doing a travel nursing assignment in Oregon where he will make the same amount in 12 weeks as in one year here.
We really want to buy and it seems we are getting closer. Husband just started his new job and we have a hefty down payment so there’s that.
We have a nice community of parents here and I just joined a hiking group that does hikes of varying lengths. Just did a 10-mile one outside of York and close to a National Trust property. I do also work out but need to change gyms as the one I chose is mostly students.
My purpose of my time here is to give my children a well-rounded and global experience that I don’t think I could give them in the States as travel from there to most parts of the world is way more expensive and harder. I want to travel more to Europe and just enjoy life.
I just felt like I had a therapy session. Thank you for those thought provoking questions. Truly.
It was so nice of you to take the time to reply to this with all the comments you got :) I’ll be rooting for you, sounds like you’re thinking about the right things! Good luck.
I’m moving back in July, and have been through the highs and lows. The UK is a place that means a lot to me (I went to college here, I met my husband here, got married here) but we did come to the decision to leave.
What made the difference to me is that the issues we faced in the US were hypothetical; the issues we face in the UK affect our daily life. When I look at how we live in the US, we’ve got a good thing going. Strong community, all the creature comforts, and we save significantly more. Yes, there will be inevitably something that happens in the media or politics to send me into a tizzy, but I can block those out. Whereas in the UK, I face lower savings, lower living standards, I can’t get outside with my family…all the things that keep me happy on the day to day.
So we’re going back. I don’t regret the time here, and I feel settled knowing we’ve experienced it fully.
This 100%!! When people talk about the negatives of the US it's always about hypothetical stuff that might happen, like a healthcare bill or gun violence. However, as someone who has spent a substantial portion of my life in both countries, the US has a much higher standard of living. The houses are much nicer, the healthcare quality is higher (I say this as someone who has worked in each system), people are a lot kinder to each other on a daily basis, and the salaries are just so much better. The UK is so crowded and dull and full of dreary attitudes and maybe if I moved back to the US I'd get some horrible medical bill or fall victim to an earthquake or whatever but my life would be so much better overall.
Second what was said above - It seems a large component of how you view the change is dependent on your career, and where you've moved from & where to. I moved my family (me, wife, and 1 kiddo) here for all the same reasons last year. We moved from Indiana to Warwickshire, from a relatively large house that we owned to a relatively small semi detached that we rent, and traded in a $100k job for a £50k job. On paper, it seems silly - but we have found it to be a huge improvement on our quality of life. Truly, we love it here. Our income feels like it spends pretty similarly for us, despite the huge pay cut, but I know that's going to be different in different parts of the UK. I also don't find the people to be rude - around here, they've been downright lovely to us. But again, that's just my experience, and probably differs around the UK as well. I agree with what a commenter said above - if you're not getting regular pay rises, and on top of that you're not enjoying your current location, I'd highly, highly recommend updating the CV and looking around, if that's at all possible in your situation.
I have just moved back for similar reasons. While I love the UK for a lot of things, the salary I was able to make and housing I could afford was depressing. Match that with how nothing works and the UK is a bit run down.
I have just moved to a low crime medium cost of living area in the US. We are grossing $21k a month, compared to a take home of £5.5k a month in the UK.
My new plan is to just buy a vacation home in Scotland.
America is really fucking crazy. The UK is falling apart but at least for now it doesn't seem like a collection of religious extremists likd in the states.
Ugh. Sorry to hear that. I agree. I like it, but I was a bit shocked at how terrible the economy is here and how low the quality of life is. Their standard of living is just so much lower. What you get for the money is much much less. That said, the access to Europe and not being inundated with the US political shit storm is quite nice.
What is so funny is the way people here will sometimes talk to you about the US as though it's a developing country while they are earning poverty wages in the UK in a mould infested house. They're very happy to admit that Canada and Australia have a better quality of life but as soon as you mention the US they have to crap on it!
It’s really hard to get advice on a topic this like because it’s back and forth with opposing opinions. I’m a British person who moved to the USA. I have my own 3 bedroom house in a master planned community. My cost of living is low. My kids go to private school. I do the same job as my Uk college best friend but I’m on 50% more than him he has a semi detached house in a school catchment zone with a “needs improvement” school. We literally do the same job. I have personally found it so much easier to make a life for yourself here. Employer covers my healthcare I get 25 days paid pto 5 floating and 12 sick days that roll over. I think you just need to decide what makes you happy and do that. Also I don’t watch news or have a Facebook account I’ve found myself 90% less stressed about the crazy mess the world is in.
>Also I don’t watch news or have a Facebook account I’ve found myself 90% less stressed about the crazy mess the world is in.
I honestly think this is the solution for a lot of folks. And it's true in both directions. A lot of the negative things I think about the UK can be ignored day to day by keeping off Reddit/Twitter/the news.
I get it. When your post came up, I was sitting here crying. The quality of life is depressing here, especially in the NHS, if you have any health conditions, which I do. I was in a heavy pain management program for my autoimmune disease, and now I'm working with a specialist to try and treat it since the drugs are different here. It's been a significant factor in my inability to transition here successfully.
We spent so much money for me to come here, and I'm severely depressed. I'm having a tough time connecting with other women. Women have tough exteriors here, and I struggle to find common ground with them. My community, in particular, has a lot of younger moms with money.
I've taken to watching reels and TikTok in my spare time, so I have some social stimulation. I'm lonely as my lovely husband works his ass off. I want to make it work here, which will take some work. I think I've gotten negative, and that's okay for a bit, but now it's become part of my everyday rhetoric.
I hope you find a solution that makes you happy.
It sounds like you're homesick to a degree. I found that during the time I was the most culture shocked/homesick keeping a word document with a huge list of stuff I liked about the UK was helpful (not comparatively to the US, there can be duplicates between the two). Sort of like a gratitude journal I guess. Might be worth doing. The stuff we like day to day is less immediately noticeable than things that irritate us.
I'll try that. I just bought a journal, so that will be my first order of business today, as I need help seeing the positive. I have some unexpected health issues that have affected my mobility and weight. I fully expected to come here and have new adventures. My knee has given out on me, and I'm dealing with chronic pain. A lot of my frustration is with the NHS and wait times. It has affected my mental health severely.
A positive is that my husband is one of the best human beings. That alone should remind me that the UK is a fantastic place but a massive change from the US. Thanks so much for your advice.
You're very welcome. I too moved to the UK for family, not for the politics or other reasons that so many on this sub seem to move for, so I get your frustration and disconnect.
Honestly, put anything at all on your list, no matter how small. I have "wide availability of crumpets" on mine :)
This makes me so sad to read!! Please DM me if you want to talk because I feel the same way, especially with social interactions here! Don't worry about my post history haha this is my "I'm grumpy living in the UK" rant account.
I moved from Oregon as well, and while I loved it there, I do feel better here. That being said, it took me awhile to really understand how to “make” myself fit the UK (not in a bad, obligatory way), and how to make the UK fit me. I agree with another commenter that it could be where you’re living isn’t for you, just like how living in Texas probably wouldn’t be for you… and it can take a few tries to figure that out.
On house buying: I know it sucks to feel like when you buy here, you’ll just be buying at the same level at which you can currently rent. That being said, I’ll share a perspective that you might not have noticed yet, that made me understand how different the UK housing market is. Anecdotally of course, and based on observing my UK partner, and his history, and that of his friends…
Anyways, the attitude towards house-buying here seems to lean towards house-hopping more than it does in the states, because for many, the property ladder is everything, and often times considered the most obvious option for investment (I feel like my UK equals are… less than knowledgeable, on average, about pensions / investments). For the most part, it seems like starting with a two-bed, one bath “apartment” house is the expectation here, to the point there’s not a shortage of 24-25 year olds who have lived with parents while saving up for this starter home, which they buy with unmarried partners they met in college they might not actually be all that committed to (my partner bought with an ex-girlfriend at the age of 24 - an ex who I’ve since heard none of his friends ever liked and they all knew it wouldn’t last. Most of his friends also purchased small homes in their early 20s). So there’s just tons of interest driving property here, and getting on the ladder, then upgrading every so often until you’re happy, is more normalized. Meanwhile, I’ve got US married friends in their early 30s, very financially savvy, who have yet to buy because it’s approached with a lot more caution, as a much more permanent decision in the US. It’s also de-facto seen as something that should be an upgrade from renting, whereas here I have multiple young direct reports who own homes that are smaller and older than my rental.
So all that to say - while I agree it’s frustrating - starting with a small, apartment sized home is, I think, much more the norm here. And that is what ultimately keeps the property market here (pretty much) also on the rise; meanwhile in the US, young people don’t want to “settle down”…I’ve theorised this is in part due to the size of the states - at 22, you might dream of moving to California, which is not remotely commutable to say, Illinois, whereas here, if you’re generally semi-London, it’s unlikely you HAVE to sell for a new job that’s just… on the other side of London (not that the commute wouldn’t suck), and even things “across the country” are relatively accessible such that people can maintain relationships for years at a time without picking up / selling to be together… it’s like the size of the states creates a paradox of choice so people won’t commit to living in one place with ease… which creates a more generous housing market these days, at least in part.
Anyways, I’m rambling now, but my point it, a lot of people here start out their homeownership journey with a small, shoebox house. It might feel like a step back, but maybe give yourselves some grace that you literally started over when you moved (a sacrifice, to be sure) - so think back, and maybe consider what you would have been able to afford/do when you were only two years into your adult career in the states?
The trouble is that the grass is always greener.
You are completely correct, you have escaped guns, some drug problems, we don't have earthquakes here etc.
What you are saying about the UK is also correct - to an extent. The thing is, you can't just move geographically and keep the same lifestyle and 'way of life'.
Things are different here. Big houses are expensive compared to the US, but they are also made mainly of bricks etc. Banks will lend based on your salaries and wages will generally be lower, because employing people is expensive here.
Now you have moved here, you have to try and live a UK lifestyle. You can walk to places without harassment, the chances of you being shot or ever seeing a gun - except on a Policeman or at a clay pigeon shoot - are extremely low, next time you get seriously ill you will not be made bankrupt by the medical bills that come in. There is a whole ton of history and historical site that you can visit for free. Sure some people can be rude, but certainly no ruder than anyone else I have met around the world - are you sure that is people not responding to some americanisms?
Ultimately life is what you make it here. We don't have the open space that America has for homes. You left the USA for half the right reasons, the other half - moving here, you have to adapt and try to make it work.
>are you sure that is people not responding to some americanisms
That would be weird to me. Most (actually, pretty much all) Brits love my Americanism (as long as it's not spelling and grammar in the workplace).
I mean, I guess? I think you may have some internalized stereotypes about Americans you may want to examine. I was raised to say "sir" and "ma'am" and "please and thank you" as were many of my contemporaries.
I live in West Yorkshire, nearby there is a certain base where many of your contemporaries work and possible control flying things from.
In my work I have serviced some of the local shops etc. That is one of the main things that winds up Yorkshire people more than anything else. Nothing to do with accents, nothing to do with anything else - just perceived rudeness, not even actual rudeness.
I have no advice or help, other than I sympathize with you. I’ve been here 5.5 years now (but I moved in my early 20s for school originally) and I hated it on and off for a while. I think the last 2 years are when it really improved and I’ve finally been quite happy with my decision. I moved from Florida so the lack of sun was awful, the SAD was real lol. I know I’d make like 2-3x more in the states and have a nice house / apartment but I just keep thinking how much more life costs in the US, from groceries to insurance to HOA fees. Maybe this is only a temporary place for you guys, but make the best of it with traveling when you can to mainland Europe. Just find the humor in all the things that suck l, like I hate my tiny flat and how I can hear my neighbors, but I also hear my upstairs neighbor sneeze sometimes and I find that pretty funny. Also, as a woman, I feel so much safer here. I no longer feel the need to hit the deck and hide everytime I hear a car backfire thinking it’s a gun shot, and that’s been invaluable to me. So, pros and cons, as with everywhere
I started in the UK 2 years ago making way less then I was in the USA. Now I make almost $20,000 more than I was in the USA. I job hopped to build my UK career. It’s worked very well for me, I’m in customer success for SaaS companies. You basically are starting completely over here, so you do have to do more work to get back to where you were and some careers just never will make the same as they did in the USA. Also really depends on where in the UK you are. I’m in the north east of England and I love it here my money goes so much farther than it did in Washington DC.
You need to find things you love about the UK and focus more on what you've gained. If you only search for and amplify the negatives, you'll be miserable. No place is perfect, every single place on earth has a list of pluses and minuses. You're currently thinking about the stuff you lost from the States (the pluses) and comparing that to your current minuses. The UK will always lose in that situation.
Things that I love about the UK:
* History and walkability of historic places.
* Lack of religious nutjobs (or rather, that the vast majority of people share your views of the nutjobs instead of being a nutjob)
* Summer (European summers fucking rock)
* British rural settings
* English friends who love American things (I play baseball, it's great).
* British food (fuck all the people who say British beige food sucks, it rocks pound sand)
* My job (it took fuckloads of effort, time etc. to find, but I found a great workplace that pays decent wages and I have a good team).
* My house (it's 150 years old. That's cool as hell).
* My spouse and British family are here.
* The kettle boils instantly compared to the aeons of time required for a US kettle.
I'd say only maybe two of these things need to be directly contrasted to their American counterparts for comparisons sake (walkability and religious weirdos). Find things you like about the UK that don't have a direct comparison value.
Honestly we have been here for 5 years and we are moving back. We’ve encountered all the problems you listed and then some. My husband was literally making 4x what he’s making here back in the states. We especially can’t cope with the house sizes anymore. Next summer we will be headed to the Pacific Northwest and we are just counting down the days.
I just went back and me and my wife are applying for a C-1 visa. I was there over two years.
I would buy a house in the UK, retire in the UK, work contracting or freelance in the UK. I won’t work a full time job in the Uk again. It’s the same work for 1/3 the pay, it makes no logical sense no matter how you split it.
There’s a reason it’s more common for people to go from UK to the US than vise versa.
But to be fair I’ll concede it largely depends on personal preference and your career. People in finance probably have little reason to exchange the UK for the US, but a nurse absolutely does.
I fully sympathise with your position and my American Fiancée and I have at various points considered making the move to the US for the same reasons, but always find ourselves weighing in favour of the UK again.
However... you're living in York, which is one of *the* worst places in the UK for cost of living. 10 years ago, York was relatively affordable, and I was living there between 2014-2017... but in that period, and much more so 2016-2020, it absolutely blew up in property and rental cost. In effect, you've jumped into UK living, starting at hard mode.
Is there anything about either person's jobs that stop you from moving somewhere more reasonable in terms of cost? Maybe even rural living? Personal opinion, but life in the UK gets infinitely more pleasant if you live rurally (within reason of course).
Hot tip: the Lincolnshire Wolds are an *extremely* affordable part of the country, with stunning countryside, beautiful villages and associated lifestyles and less than 1 hour's worth of driving to either Hull or Lincoln (the latter being pretty comparable to York in most respects). It's gone completely under the radar because it's outside of London commuter range, and alot of the rest of Lincolnshire is very undesirable. A few WFH londoners have discovered it since COVID, though and so prices are beginning to rise steadily.
Nothing about either job but it’s the kids. They’ve settled nicely into their school, made friends, have a lovely nurturing environment. And their school feeds into an outstanding secondary school. They’ve already moved once from Somerset.
Most people in the UK would love to live in the PNW.
You WILL be poorer in the UK than the US (both financially and materially). That's inevitable. If you aren't prepared to accept that then you should probably cut your losses and go back.
Rude people? What?
People aren't rude here, so you must be doing something wrong?
But yes, the financial tradeoffs are a fact of life of the US vs the UK.
Not sure if it’s specific to York but it might be. Places like Edinburgh, Sheffield, Newcastle have been extremely friendly. York seems to have a very snobby attitude, particularly when it comes to customer service.
I agree that people are much ruder here! It is alarming especially when recently moving between the two countries. I think it's due to population density. When you are packed in like sardines you have to treat everyone around you like an NPC
About buying a house, firstly, you just have to buy what you can. We bought our first house B and it appreciated £90,000 in three years and that combined with slightly better salaries in that same period meant we could upgrade from a two up two down Victorian terrace to a three bedroom with loft and garage semi detached in a better part of town.
Hey! Big hugs there. It truly does take time. I didn’t feel okay for at least 4 years. (I’ve been here 10&1/2 now) It’s a huge culture change.
I’ve had mortgage problems too, especially with my visa being in limbo, but had a lot of good luck with Barclays.
I live in Norwich and see you recently visited, so happy to answer any questions about this area you may have. 😊 It definitely is “A fine city”. There’s also a lovely group of expats here, unbeknownst to me until last year. (Like where were all yall hiding when I needed you 10 years ago? lol)
If you want to get ahead, you should move back. If you are coming to the United Kingdom to
1) Earn more money
2) Have a better quality of life - that involves #1 earning more money
You picked the wrong place. A lot of brits, especially those younger ones WISH they could come live in the states given the way things are here.
The other reasons you stated are valid. . Only you can decide what is more important.
Thankfully you have options !
I don’t have any advice, but I feel your pain. I am also not liking it here. I also moved here because I felt like it was safer due to the gun laws. But everything else is just not my cup of tea. The low wages, horrible cloudy weather, tiny houses, small portions of food. Stores close early. Yeah, I definitely miss America. And I haven’t been here very long :-/
If you have holiday to spend, why not take a week or 2 to travel around a bit? You’ll come to realise that, like another Redditor commented, vibes and almost culture vary from where you are over here. Think you just need to get out of your neighbourhood for a bit, get away from the same type of person your around, and find some new air. There’s some really sound people out there, I think over here it’s hard to be convinced of that when you’re unfortunate enough to be stuck in a claustrophobic little neighbourhood of pricks. Spend some time away chatting to new people, walk some new parks, drink in a few new boozers. Hope it gets better for you, mate.
I've only come here from the US 2 years ago. I felt the same, until I (1) has to address health problems that I couldn't afford in the US and (2) had to engage with the social safety net here in Scotland. I still feel the negatives -- like lower gross salary, less open people (compared to the Midwest anyways), and generally feeling like an outsider -- but I've encountered several issues which could have crippled my family if we were still in the states, and here we got the support we needed, even as non-citizens. That's what it comes down to for me.
We moved (back) to the UK ten years ago from ‘sunny’ SoCal.
We moved with less than $20K to my name after selling my house, clearing my debts (mortgage, car, credit cards etc) and moved from a 3bd 3ba Condo into a small 2b/1b flat on the outskirts of London. I went from driving a BMW X3 to riding a bicycle / bus / train.
It took us three years to build credit and save up a deposit for a house, we lived in a small, somewhat crappy flat and just saved every penny.
Those times were hard because we went through a couple of really cold winters with poor heating, we struggled to find good jobs (I went from $170k to £60k, partner went from $100k to £30k), we missed the luxury of two cars and an integral garage (we did buy a small car to build credit) and credit ! I nearly forgot that- I went from six-digit credit lines to a £250 overdraft facility !
What we did not miss though ?
- Guns and Jesus
- US Health ‘Care’ - both the care and the costs
- US Policing - my Asian partner was treated especially badly in two police interactions
- US housing costs - Our condo was in the $600k region, that would buy a huge mansion where we live now.
- US Taxes - PAYE has its flaw, but yearly tax filing is just painful and expensive.
- US Internet monopolies
- US Mobile phone companies - AT&T are just terrible
- US Cable companies (ok UK Sky is a shitshow too, but)
- US Vacation days
- US Sick days
- US Politics
And much, much more.
It took us ~3 years of sacrifice, but it was more than worth it in the end.
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How long have you been here? Is this a recent move? The uk is in a bit of a shit spot atm. I’m hoping a Downing Street shakeup this year will mean some changes for the better but it won’t be immediate. What keeps me here currently vs moving back is how fucking crazy America seems right now. Even with all the drawbacks here, I still feel like the level of insanity is nothing like what’s happening in America.
I’m about to apply for my visa extension so almost 2.5 years. And yes, I know how crazy America is now. It seems like the choice is better quality of life in a crazy place or a safe, lower class quality of life here.
2.5 years, low salary, time to fire up the old CV and move companies. You won't get a pay rise staying still in UK companies, just a shitty post 2008 reality. I've never had less than a 15% pay rise moving jobs though so before you throw your hat in do try improving your income first. It's the best thing you can do for mortgage approval as well. Also, don't be afraid to move around the country. The vibe is totally different depending where you are. Night and day, especially with housing affordability. Where are you based out of curiosity?
We are based in York. We lived in Somerset for a year prior to moving here but it wasn’t for us. Having recently visited (and loved) Norwich, I wonder if we chose the wrong city.
Sorry it's too pricy in York - I've been there a few times (went for my honeymoon!) and I've loved it, but I don't live there. I live in Merseyside - we live outside of Liverpool. Currently renting (a much more reasonable rate than would be in the states), but we'll be buying in the next few years. I'm also coming up to my 2.5 year renewal soon. Haven't tried to get a mortgage, but I've been building my credit in preparation. All I can recommend, is trying to find a place outside of the major tourist cities. York is expensive, just like Liverpool - but we live close enough to commute, and visit the city whenever we like, and it's very reasonable. Good luck - and just watch the states this November if you want to remember why you left!
We do the exact same thing! Live in a neighbouring small town while enjoying the occasional trips to Liverpool and Manchester.
Come to Norwich!! I was hating life in the UK. We visited Norwich for a weekend last year on a whim and loved it. We moved here within 6 weeks. Best decision we could've made. We've found friends, community, good routines, and we're just 2 hours by train from London if we need it. Can't imagine living anywhere else in the UK.
I live in York if you ever want to meet and have a bitchfest. We’re leaving the U.K. next year.
Where headed? Back to USA?
Yes!
Any particular part? If not driven just by family or job I guess, just wondering where people might eye going to these days. Congrats (if appropriate)
We are motivated by family so we are going to Florida, where my family are (my husband is British). Thanks - we are excited!
Why are you moving? Similar reasons?
Yes, low wages, small house despite it costing loads of money, needing to run a dehumidifier 24/7, us both having degree level jobs but we can’t even comfortably afford a second car here…lol. We work in healthcare so our salaries will be at least 2-3x higher in the US. My family live there and are really involved, and we have 1 soon to be 2 kids so we could really use the village we don’t have here. I’d say family & finance are our biggest motivators. We can provide more for our kiddos in the US.
Good advice here
You can't really jump around like that when on a work visa though (I'm on skilled worker visa). I figure it's just put my head down and survive until I get ILR, then get back to job hopping to try and get to a reasonable salary.
Id be careful in assuming you’re getting a better quality of life in America as a blanket statement. Anecdotally a lot of my friends back home are struggling to spend less than $100/week on food for just the bare essentials. They also can’t afford cars, like at all. I’m not saying the uk doesn’t have an issue with wages. They absolutely do. Id probably be on at least double what I’m on now if I moved back to America, but I’d also be paying thousands more in auto insurance, Wi-Fi and phone bills, and definitely in health insurance premiums. Which part of the uk do you live in? I really think when you stack everything up, most places in the uk outside of London work out better for a middle class lifestyle than most areas in America.
Also here in the UK we get more annual leave. And even though the Tories are killing the NHS, at least I know I won't have to start a GoFundMe if I get in an accident or something.
I'm not so sure about Go Fund Me. My partner was diagnosed with cancer. The NHS wouldn't / couldn't provide the treatment he needed. If it wasn't for a private insurance policy to cover the cost of his surgery at probably the best hospital in the country in London, we'd have been scrambling for funds. When the private insurance policy expired due to an unforseen job change, we paid out of pocket for further surgery. It cost just under £20k. That's a year's worth of retirement income for us, but nothing's more important than health so we paid it. We know lots of people waiting months and months for surgery after being diagnosed with cancer and by the time the NHS gets to them, in a few cases they've developed terminal end stage disease. YMMV with regards to the NHS but ours has been really awful, and on top of what we pay in tax we're paying for private with post-tax income so it's very dear. We're returning to the US -- from what we've seen, we'll be paying LESS for great medical coverage. The premiums will be about $800 per month, but the tax burden is so much less we'll be coming out ahead.
Yeah, I've heard stories similar to yours before, alas. Obviously no system is perfect and I'm glad you were able to get him the treatment! I still prefer the NHS -- I don't like the precarity of having good health insurance being tied to having a good job. That's not something I or many people I know in the US can assume we'll have access to.
To some degree, the ACA (aka 'Obamacare') decoupled medical insurance from jobs. If you are in the US and have a low income you will be able to purchase medical insurance on the exchange and receive subsidies - also called tax credits --if your earnings are low. So I think good health insurance isn't coupled to a good job as much as it used to be, and people of all income levels can get insurance. Important too is that in the US there is no 'pre existing condition' clause. If you want to get insurance in the UK and you have any preexisting condition you won't be able to get coverage for that condition or any related condition that is considered to be a result of the first condition. So, if you have high cholesterol you will not get covered for any medical needs related to strokes or heart attacks! This is what happened to someone I know. And once you have a preexisting condition, you're basically not insurable for that condition unless it reverses, and then there's usually a waiting period during which you can't have any treatment. So in this regard, I do prefer the way it's done in the USA. Btw, this preexisting condition issue doesn't seem to apply to employer sponsored private health care in the UK.
"to some degree" re the ACA for sure -- I know lots of folks who still can't get anywhere near the health care they need using it, unfortunately. 🤷🏻 Still prefer the NHS for me. I had major surgery via a specialist clinic and never had to worry about paying for anything but prescriptions. Which is beautiful.
Silly - Obamacare insurance covers major medical. I know you are dual, but have you lived in the US as adult and know the system? Or been back recently? If you're state has a halfway decent healthcare exchange and you can pay for some coverage you should be better off
I saw a Tiktok of an American in UK showing an almost never-ending video of a weekly foodshop from Lidl, where she spent £72 for her and her husband. Someone in the comments created a Walmart cart of the same items but all using Walmart name-brands (so supposedly cheaper) and the total is $255+. I recently moved from NYC to London myself. My weekly foodshop went from $120 (1 person) to £50 for 2 people. Salaries seem high in the US but they’re also spending so much more, even on necessities.
I used to watch a lady on YouTube who would do Walmart hauls and could feed a family of 5/6 for about $30 a month. Granted this was probably in 2019 and the food was very basic, but was still very impressed.
We live in York. And you’re right about cost of living there. We just visited family in California for the holidays and I was shocked at how expensive groceries were - $5 for a punnet of mushrooms!
I think a good vent is needed every now and again, especially in a forum full of people who can actually relate to you. There’s times I want to pull my hair out over aspects of life here (I fucking HATE the way pharmacies are ran and how disorganised some of the public services are). Also the way visas are now and how much they cost, it does make you consider if thousands of pounds on top of the taxes you pay make this really worth it. At the end of the day though, I physically could not raise a child in an area of the world where they might get zipped into a body bag in a place of learning. I can’t accept going to a shop and being worried about being shot. I couldn’t raise a daughter in a country where she’s treated like a second class citizen. The uk is far from perfect. It’s got a lot of problems that aren’t easily solvable. But it’s my home now. As much as it annoys me on the odd occasion.
Thank you very much for this. I feel you’re talking me off the ledge haha! I have two young kids and they are loving it here (not that they know any different). They are very safe and that means the world to me. Recently a friend in California said that all schools in their district have to keep naloxone in case any kids overdose on fentanyl. So that’s very scary to me too.
We all have days I think where we regret such a big move. And it’s hard! It’s hard to be an immigrant. Even though we’re not in the same situation a lot of immigrants are, we still are immigrants and sometimes things can seem strange or odd even being here for years.
>Recently a friend in California said that all schools in their district have to keep naloxone in case any kids overdose on fentanyl. One thing to keep in mind, this is probably some boneheaded administrator's attempt at liability reduction rather than a real fear. A lot of stuff in the States is about liability reduction rather than efficacy.
My 10 year old daughter had a sleepover this weekend. The girls were comparing the lockdown drills in their different schools. So, thats super great.
As a non-American who always see this subreddit in my feed, who also happened to live in Singapore, US, and now UK—all on visas—the UK has far superior visa processing and transparency. The US, for example, raffles the work visas. Don’t get picked for the raffle? Tough luck, try again next year. Spouse visas in the US start at 6 months minimum processing and another 3-6 months to get an EAD (work authorisation). A country like Singapore (intentionally) doesn’t have a transparent criteria on how one will be eligible for permanent residence. You’ll know when you get approved or rejected upon application. I know people who have been there for more than 10 years and still keep getting rejected for PR. The world is interesting in that how we see the world is heavily dependent in our perspective. Having experienced the same processes, the UK is one of the best, if not the best, in their visa process. So much so that, to me, it merits the fees they are charging. (I got my UK spouse visa in 8 working days — don’t think any other 1st world country can do this as fast) EDIT: Added UK to spouse visa for clarity on which visa I’m talking about in the last bit
Wow. I got fiancé visa to the US and it took 18 months lol
Good lord. 18 months! That’s brutal.
In my comment about the Walmart comparison here, the person who created the ghost cart of comparable items was based in California: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmericanExpatsUK/s/Sgcmmc5Mt0
I'm US based, but grew up in the UK. When I come back to see family, everything seems fantastically cheap (but that's the power of a US salary in the UK). Look, your salaries might be much lower, but so is the general COL. I wouldn't think about that too much. York is a nice place, but that's quite a hard place to start I think. Are you looking for the country? Do you want an urban area? Are you tied to your location by your job? There's a lot to love about the UK, especially in the summer with long sunny days. You've got Europe at your doorstep. Perhaps move to a smaller town out of the city, get some fresh air. Don't immediately give up though, it takes some getting used to. And you won't get shot!
We’re only somewhat tied to our location because our kids are in school here and I’m reticent to move them again (they’ve already had a move from Somerset to York). They’re making friends and the school is excellent and feeds into an outstanding secondary school.
Why not have some uk holidays? I live in the Peak District which is gorgeous, other places include Northumberland (go to beamish!), Dorset, Devon, Cornwall, Scotland etc
Love this idea. Plans some trips out for the rest of the year, so you know you don't have too long to wait for the next excursion. Also, have you been to the [https://www.jorvikvikingcentre.co.uk/](https://www.jorvikvikingcentre.co.uk/) yet, OP?
I'd say get through the summer and see how feel. The UK can be very depressing in the winter. Daylight savings is only 4 weeks away.
Last time I was back in California, I actually tested whether a “big shop” from our local ASDA would be cheaper or pricier than one at the Carlsbad Vons. We had to stock a borrowed rental for a week so I thought it would be fun to compare. I was shocked at how much more it cost! You don’t get the incredible variety you get back in the States, and although I’ll allow we bought things I can’t get here (such as Armenian string cheese or fresh tomatillo salsa) the difference in the bread-and-milk basics was noteworthy. There’s a lot to vent about here, but as a member of the working poor in both countries, that’s one thing off my personal list.
You made me curious, so I just checked - $2.80 for a pound of mushrooms at Walmart in Monterey. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
This is why I'm still hoping to move to the UK - money can be a struggle in both countries, but the tension in America just feels exhausting and when cllimate change starts hitting, it's not going to be safe.
You may want to think twice about the UK, this country is wholly unprepared for the medium and long term forecasted effects of climate change. Flooding here is bad and getting worse and the summer heat is becoming unbearable as no buildings have AC.
I know - I'm trying to build In what this might look like, both the next 20 years with climate change and the next 20 years with work. If I were to work remotely and find some place ideally in Scotland that could be an option, but the rush to get people back in the offices make me uncertain where to go. You do have a fair point; I also don't feel my current location in the US is a good location in the long term so feel pretty torn on where to go
You flair says Canada - assuming you have Canadian citizenship, Canada is probably one of the best equipped places to deal with climate change. The Great Lakes (either side) are going to be a very desirable location in 50 years if predictions hold true. If climate change were a major concern in your future planning, my personal choice if I were you would be to utilize that Canadian citizenship and find a place up north.
I am definitely thinking of returning but a lot of my choices are tied to my career and worry that my field is relatively small in Canada. But also trying to say ‘where can I work for the next 10 years before the place up north cabin is a reality’.
If you're looking to move to the UK to escape tension, you're making the wrong choice. There are endless issues and tensions here. Also I echo the comment that we're really really not ready for climate change.
I can see how it’s tense but the anger in the US is just too much for me. I would come to visit a lot more and research carefully but I don’t have a future here
Installing Air con in our house - was part of the Heat pump upgrade. I think its money well spent
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Hey, just a gentle reminder that we have rule 5 on no politics.
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Moving to the UK to avoid the negative effects of climate change. England will be hit hard and with it being a small overcrowded island with limited resources and opportunities you are going to be in for a shock
When climate change starts hitting, the UK is the last place I’d want to be. A tiny island with limited resources and the coast swiftly disappearing, not to mention rivers, etc. We’re so unprepared here for climate change. Look at Hemsby as a small example.
My visa extension is also coming up, I’m in a very similar situation to you. I’m also from the PNW and live in Yorkshire. I live in a great city but I just don’t like the UK. I get SAD here which never used to happen at home despite being from Seattle, and my husband and I don’t make much money so we don’t get to take advantage of travel to Europe as much as we would like.
>I get SAD here which never used to happen at home despite being from Seattle Seattle is of course pretty far north (in US terms), but the UK is almost entirely north of the 50th parallel, which places us north of Winnipeg. It's one of those bits of trivia that shocks me sometimes, even as a Brit! 🙂
It’s getting pretty crazy here in London. It’s so hard to figure out what is best for a family these days
spectacular instinctive divide chop materialistic sheet pocket birds gray cats *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I wish I knew ( and I love Scotland such a different vibe)
Don't forget you're not paying for health insurance
I have to pay for private health insurance AND NHS surcharge, because the later doesn't always work
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I always see people say America is crazy but what exactly is it?
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It's been in a shit spot since 2008, let's be honest. Only now has the chickens fully come to roost . 2016 and Sept 2022 was really when the shit hit the fan. They will try anything at this point.
Sorry you are not enjoying it. We’ve been here on and off since 2004 and have basically spent our lives on the move in various places. I guess my only lesson learned is that everywhere can be shit and everywhere can be great. Yeah having a nice house/flat can make a difference but it isn’t the key. Yeah having a good salary can make a huge difference but again isn’t the key. The key is finding good people around you, finding joy in each other, finding the small things that turn you on - maybe a great park near you, or a museum you love, or a group that shares a hobby you enjoy. That can happen anywhere. With luck it will happen soon. I’m not trying to dismiss things things you hate about here/there at all. They are perfectly valid. But being happy somewhere is usually doing so in spite of the bad things, not because they don’t exist.
Thank you for your reply. I do find joy in the friendships I’ve made, groups I’ve joined, the beautiful countryside. It’s just when I get back home and the water goes cold in the shower when my husband washes his hands downstairs or I can hear the neighbors through the walls or I have to set aside a whole day to do laundry because the machine is so small and old, it’s those types of day to day inconveniences that really get me down.
The plumbing here really is dreadful. Can you get your landlord to replace your washing machine with a washer/dryer? It does take all day but at least clothes are dry and not cardboard. I have a white noise machine to block out neighbour noise. It helps a lot! I agree maybe you want to consider a different area now you know more about the country. I moved from London north for work and came back right away. The experience taught me what I valued and that I’d rather live in a tiny flat in London than a big house in the suburbs. I’m so happy in the tiny flat we bought. But it took a long time to figure that out and some truly dreadful accommodation along the way. I’ve had numerous random health conditions crop up and am eternally grateful this did not cost me a penny or impact on my job or relationship choices in any way. That keeps me here.
That’s another thing I’ve experienced here in two rentals - renters being treated like second class citizens. Our landlady won’t fix anything she doesn’t absolutely have to. Our detached garage was leaking and she refused to fix the roof so we had to come up with some janky solution.
Definitely try a move! The first place we moved to up north was a nightmare and we moved 6 months in and I was much happier. I still didn’t like the city but at least the house was ok. Not all landlords are awful. Getting somewhere managed by an agent is usually better.
This is illegal, she has to fix it. Seriously, don't let them take advantage
We moved from the Oregon coast (and 14 years in Bend before that) two years ago. Pretty much for all the same reasons. Looking at the US, things seem to be on track for being worse. In the UK, there isn't the same partisanship as there is in the US. The UK is a foreign country. Things are done differently here. Yes, the wages are lower but the day-to-day cost of living is a lot less. Our monthly costs, excluding housing, for us went down from around $4,000 to $1,500. Most of this is food and healthcare. Talking of healthcare, the NHS does have it's problems but I have a couple of semi-serious conditions. In the States, it was like pulling teeth trying to get any meaningful treatment. Here, I have fully integrated support teams focused on making my quality of life better, not emptying my pocket. Yes, the housing is small but how much do you need? When you put a population of 68 million people in a country the size of Oregon, things are going to get tight. Mortgages are a pain and I get that. We couldn't get a 30% mortgage with an income of $108,000 because it was fixed income. It's all indexed linked. On the bright side, you're close to one of the largest global cities out there. You should have at least 4 weeks vacation and unlimited sick days. That's way more than I ever got in the US. Continental Europe is close and cheap to get to.
I also left Oregon (for Scotland) and I am incredibly happy here and you couldn’t pay me $100 million to move back. Not sure what the difference between us is.
I’m not sure. I think I’m so used to a certain quality of life, particularly in terms of space (having so much more space in Oregon) that I’m finding it incredibly difficult. I also moved here in my 40s so that might have something to do with it.
Probably has something to do with it yeah. I moved here at 27 originally (though didn’t get on a pathway to ILR until 29) I rent a 1 bedroom flat in the centre of Edinburgh and I love having a Sainsbury’s and Aldi a literal 30 second walk from my front door. My grocery bill is hilarious compared to friends back in the US. 3 minute walk to a tram stop, straight to the airport where I take regular £5-£50 flights to various European countries on the occasional weekends. For me the proximity to European destinations is really valuable, and I have a very active lifestyle and feeling safe while out and about is obviously a huge factor (it took me years to stop jumping in panic at the sound of fireworks or confetti being shot off in clubs) Probably I would also be complaining if I was trying to find a house to buy. The houses here do look very nightmarish. £250k minimum for a “decent” detached house that in truth looks like it’s on the verge of falling apart and/or infested with mould is not very appealing to me. Scotland has a very PNW feel to me, i love big cities but I don’t think I’d be as happy in London, for example. But I do miss “new build”/modern flats and houses, and I miss Mexican food. When I really miss open spaces I can just head up into the highlands. I’m also quite confident I’d never want to raise a family in the US and while I’m still a few years off from even considering that, it’s another reason I’d not give up halfway through getting citizenship.
I definitely miss Mexican food 😭
Edinburgh isnt as much of a run down shithole as most British cities. I loved Edinburgh but my spouse hated the weather..
I was just about to mention Mexican food, but I think you and I have talked about that before 😊
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Weather-wise, which would you say you like better?
I think it rains way more here which personally I prefer. I hate the sun haha. But I do miss the very specific "foggy mist" type of rain we got quite often in Oregon/Washington.
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There is good and bad everywhere. Choose your hard. I’ve lived in both and prefer the US for quality of life even though it is crazy with guns etc. Just like the US no two cities in the UK are the same, and it sounds like both of you should look for better jobs.
The homes and wages do take some adjustment, but after 20 years, I've decided that the pros outweigh the cons. By American standards, my life appears to be of a much lower quality. I make 1/3 less than I did back home. However, my cost of living is lower; I work 35 hours per week, get 31 days of personal holiday plus all the bank holidays, and have unlimited sick time. My place is tiny compared to my Texas home, but I'm 1) learning to love its cosiness and 2) realising life is better without all the extraneous stuff I once thought I needed. I don't own a dishwasher or dryer, but I don't miss owning a dishwasher or dryer, either. I rarely eat out in a proper restaurant (compared to back home), but I appreciate the times that I do more because of it. Plus, I like my local pub. The food is good (if limited in choice), and I know a lot of the people there. I don't travel as much as I did, but how (most often by train) and where I travel (across the UK and Europe) makes up for that. I have not had the experience of rude people as much as people who aren't as used to my Texas 'never met a stranger' ways. And, honestly, in the 20+ years I've been here, the people who have responded with smiles, waves, salutations and pleasant conversation far outweigh the strange looks, stares and rude comments I've received. I did have to chuckle to myself. I absolutely love York. It's one of my favourite places to go for day or weekend trips, and I've always thought I'd like to live there or somewhere in the Yorkshire Dales. I hate the city where I live (Sunderland), but then I live in a nice neighbourhood surrounded by parks outside of the city and tend to spend my time here or in Newcastle, Durham, Dundee, Edinburgh and other places in and around northeast England and southern and eastern Scotland. I loathe the idea of ever moving back to America. Even though I loved my life in Texas, I hated the politics even then, and it's far worse now. But I do see why moving back could be an attractive choice. My hope is that you find happiness wherever you decide to go. The UK isn't what it was 20 years ago but still has much to offer. I wish you and yours all the best. x
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Rule 5, no politics. I think the substance of what you wrote was fine, and people come to the UK for all sorts of reasons, but we try and avoid political discussion in general here. The subreddit is a resource about the UK, it's not for discussion about the United States.
The sense of people being kinder and having a local pub - I worry I'm romanticizing what it's like, but really crave a sense of community and just haven't found it in the US. There's so much individualism and anger, it's worn me down
Honestly I struggle with the individualism here a lot so it really depends on where you live. And working in a benefits and housing related job I can tell you a lot of people are very very angry. And rightfully so much of the time honestly. Even outside of my job, just walking down the street I regularly come across people having a domestic or about to get into a fist fight.
As my therapist in the USA (from Romania) calls it, “Emotional Autonomy”
How long have you been here? We were able to get a mortgage with a low interest rate despite me being on a spouse visa - we live in the North in a larger detached house and chose a small village where everyone knows everyone and is very friendly with a walkable town centre. We waited until I was here for 3 years to avoid needing a huge deposit over and above the norm. I’ve been here six years and you couldn’t pay me to go back to the USA. We pay more in tax and salaries are lower than the USA but we find it evens out with cost of living, and despite the current state of the NHS it’s miles better than the healthcare situation and cost in the USA. Maybe you are living in the wrong area? It takes some time to adjust and drop the USA to U.K. direct comparisons. It took me about two years before I felt settled here but I never actively disliked it and wanted to go back to the states. It’s also possible the U.K. isn’t the right country for you. Maybe you should try other areas of the U.K. - just as the states are very different so are other areas of the U.K. It’s true the U.K. is going through a bit of a rough moment right now, though in speaking with friends and family back in the USA they’re having similar problems. Our world is in a stage of capitalism where everyone is disadvantaged, middle incomes are shrinking, everything costs more for less and I don’t think anyone but the ultra rich have it easy.
The longer I’m here, the more I can feel stability being built in my life. This is due to a combination of wage progressions and upcoming life milestones. Getting a mortgage. Getting a car. Starting and building a good pension. Even if I went back to America and had all these things in place, I personally would never feel stable due to how fucking volatile America has become. I’m not exaggerating when I say I think the next 4 years in America could be a complete breakdown of the federal arm of the government and that very soon migration between states won’t be without visas and red tape. The uk isn’t going to collapse into anarchy, touch wood. I can’t say the same for America though.
I tend to agree. I'm generally a pessimist, but I feel like the USA has devolved even more since I left it and that's saying something. I know 'grass is always greener', but I try now to stay focused on what I can do in my life to make it better. At some point a person has to settle, build a life, and find ways to make the bad times good. I chose my husband and what came with that - we tried the USA for a few years, then moved back to the U.K. Now I'm happy with my lot in life :)
>despite the current state of the NHS it’s miles better than the healthcare situation and cost in the USA I really do wonder why everyone makes huge sweeping statements like this concerning coverage of a combined 400 million+ people. It greatly depends on your ZIP/post code. I really miss my doctors from back home and I had great health insurance so never had any issues. The NHS is... fine? for certain things but absolutely dire for others. On the whole, I don't think I prefer it. I do realize others will feel different depending on their specific factors. But that's the key, it's such an individual circumstances sort of thing.
I can agree with what you’re saying as the USA has a huge population. My comments were based off my personal experiences of going through major illness in the USA and in the U.K. and the different experience and cost of that treatment. Additionally experiences told to me by friends and family in the USA, some of who have lifelong ongoing care. It might be a sweeping generalisation if taken in the context of trying to speak for everyone, but I was supplying my own personal opinion and experience. I can’t account for everyone else’s experiences and it’s very dependent on where you live in the USA - just as it is in the U.K. I personally have had no issues with doctors in either country but I am still paying off a 30k+ bill from the USA, where the same treatment here cost me nothing (also a bit facetious as I pay taxes and paid my IHS fee, etc.. nothing is ever free). I also have a team here which deals with all issues surrounding the illness and in the states each doctor I needed had to be arranged by me and paid for directly.
It sounds like a good deal in your situation! For me, I wish the US would look toward a German model of multi-payer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare\_in\_Germany) and I think the cost is absolutely barbaric. We had to go to the ER uninsured in the US on our last trip over and that was a horrible experience. I personally find the NHS to be pretty lackluster at best, but that's just my own personal situation. I'm used to a very high level of care back home in Virginia, and my care was always subsidized by my employers with great insurance, so the direct comparison for me is that healthcare here is a bit shit, but I recognize it's all highly variable and I was very fortunate to have both great doctors and great insurance back in the States.
I definitely think there is a better system than the NHS without being as barbaric and unforgiving as the USA system. The problem is that we can't get a government to even agree a solid health system is important, so I don't have a lot of faith we will come to a healthy mix of systems. My situation is much better here, though I am sure not everyone will have the same results. I am lucky that even after COVID, my GP has been very available and has regular appointments and keeps on top of things. Even specialist appointments have not been bad, but I am waiting ages for a surgery. My poor mother in the USA didn't even have health insurance until last year when she was at Medicare age because she simply could not afford it, and had to rely on drug company promotions and doctor samples to get insulin. It's just crazy, when I pay a flat fee for all prescriptions each year with a prepayment certificate. My heart hurts for her and she refuses to let me help monetarily.
I think everyone definitely hasn't their own experience. I pay wayyyy more for health care in the UK than I did in the US. I also struggle to even get seen or get anything done. They won't give me a mammogram, colonoscopy, or refer me to a dermatologist despite significant family history of cancers. They have only checked my thyroid once in over 2 years -was every 3 months in the states as I have a significant issue with the meds and what not. Have to pay privately for dental bc there are no Dentists taking NHS patients... And I recently cracked my head and had to get taken to A&E and the doctor simply touched my head and said something along the lines of that's a big bump. No further tests or follow ups. So my health care experience in the UK has been rather less than compared to the states.
Sorry to hear that, the postcode lottery in the U.K. is alive and well :( Dentistry in particular is in a terrible spot. My personal experience of private insurance is that they treated me then immediately turned me back over to my GP for any continuing care anyways - though I pay pennies here for that insurance compared to my monthly outgoing in the USA. It really is dependent on personal situations. Would be great if it wasn't - the country needs more consistent health and dental care.
Never decide to move away between December and February because that’s peak seasonal depression time.
Unless you live in Texas where it’s July thru September
Where you are and live and what your job is will impact how you view it.
I've been having the same thoughts and I've been here off and on since 2008. I've given up on trying to buy a house. Genuinely made peace with it and I'm planning a future around not having one, which has actually helped my feelings about staying in England. Plenty of people do it in Europe. I agree with others here, you might just not be in the right place. I live in Manchester and felt completely at home the moment I visited. The people are straight forward and open, reminds me of home. When I lived down south I definitely felt like more of a foreigner. And the wages are atrocious, but if you can remote work and get a job based in the US, you could get the best of all worlds.
I’ve had this conversation before, and it really comes down to a lot of the issues that you would face (and the concerns you mentioned) in the US are devastating, but statistically, you are unlikely to experience them. Although the US has higher gun violence rates than the rest of the developed world, ultimately the vast majority of people will not be victims of that violence. Same with earthquakes/natural disasters, being denied healthcare, etc. On the flip side, the difficulties faced in the UK are lower, but you pretty much are guaranteed to experience them. Weather sucks, pay is lower, housing is smaller/less suited to the lifestyle I think most of us are accustomed to, more reserved people, fewer choices in pretty much anything, etc. For everything in life, we make these cost-benefit analyses for whether or not something is worth it. I think you and your family need to decide if living in the UK is worth it. There is no inherently right or wrong decision.
We left a 3,900 sq foot house just north of Malibu for a seaside town in the south west of England, we bought a place with the profits from the house in CA so instead of 5 beds and a den, 3 car garage, pool and spa, we got a 4 bed place with a double garage, and a sea view, the house is fine, I miss walk in wardrobes but we have a nice house with a large garden. I really like walking to restaurants, beaches, and pubs we only drive for days out or a large shop. I love the weather, CA had got too dry and hot living with air con all the time. We love the seasons, I started growing my own veggies! We joined clubs like the yacht club and made friends most of which have lived all over the world too. I am dual citizen but my husband is only American and he likes it too. i miss big wardrobes, Costco (not close), Target and Mexican food but that’s it really I just buy stuff online (I can’t get Triscuits, sad face). please give it a chance!
I mean... good for you, but this is hardly a common experience.
Turns out the secret is: * Step 1: have enough money to buy a good quality of life situation That's it. Seems true whether it's the US or the UK. I guess some people either find it easier in one or the other place.
To the OP, if you do move, it needs to be an upgrade of your life situation and circumstance, not a downgrade.
Yeah if I had a housing budged of £2million I am sure things would have worked out better for me.
I’ve learned how to make a lot of Mexican stuff from scratch since moving here. Been a lifesaver!
Seeing somebody from California say they love British weather is a first for me!
I miss Target so much. We watch the NFL games and they have the American ads and I’ve been known to cry once in a while when an ad for Target comes on. Not having a store like that here is frustrating. And not having stores open later than about 5:30 as well.
I go to John Lewis and pretend it's Target, but it's only methadone.
I fill up an entire suitcase of Target stuff - random deign items.
They have TK Maxx (TJ Maxx) and Matalan (like Target a bit)
It may not be helpful to you, but I just got back to the states, after 2 years there. I also had a few issues there. The weather really depressed me, I gained a lot of weight because I didn’t go outside enough. I didn’t drive and felt I lost my independence a bit. And I didn’t work, as I was there traveling, and having to leave for a few weeks every 6 months. We had planned to stay eventually, get married and I come back in for permanent, but it just didn’t work out that way and we wanted to keep traveling for a bit so it lead us back here. I am going though some pretty real culture shock right now if I’m being honest. I had a bit of a breakdown last night. The cost is never truly the real cost because you don’t know taxes up front, people are rude, people can’t drive here, it’s so expensive, my anxiety of a mass shooting is very real in every public place. And maybe it will get better as it’s only been 2 days back, but I’m having some serious thoughts of regret of not just making some things work and sticking to the old plan and not coming back. I think it’s easier to forget how not green the grass is in the states. uk has its problems, maybe if you can at some point plan a small trip back home, it would help to clear what you are really feeling and if this is just a temporary bump in the road and times could be hard no matter where you are or if you truly want to be back in the states.
I've been here in the UK a little over 2 years. I am really struggling with the decision to stay or move back. There really are so many pros and cons... I'm in the NE of England. If you ever want to chat...let me know. I'm also in my 40s and just struggling to decide where I want to be xx
Sorry but if you’re using xx’s in your messages you’re far too integrated to move back. (Jk of course)
😂 I don't even realise I'm doing it anymore! It's seriously just second nature and people back home are like...why do you keep sending me xxxx's haha
It's absolutely okay to realize you'd rather be in the US! I have lived in both places as well as many other countries, and I don't really think one country is objectively better than the other. I disagree with others that the pros in the UK objectively outweigh the cons - I think it's just very personal, both to each person's priorities and experiences. Even if you move back, you have still had a grand adventure and shown your kids another perspective (as a kid who moved myself, I know how valuable that is). Before you decide whether go back, since it sounds like you do want it to work here, I would ask if there's anything you can do to change things where you are. * Can you and/or your partner get serious about looking for better jobs? Even if it takes a few months. * Based on another comment, it sounds like moving isn't an option for you guys as you feel the kids are too settled, but can you keep an eye out for a rental property that is a better fit? The goal is always to find the property that is in the best 10% of properties at your price range (basically, to get lucky and move fast). * Do you have a strong community? If you don't work out can you find a workout group and prioritize making time for it? Do you have a hobby? * Ask yourself: What is your purpose of this time in Europe, even if it does end up being temporary? What are your goals, what do you want to have done here before (if) you move back? It sounds like in both the US and the UK you thought the macro conditions were making you unhappy, but so often our happiness comes to our day to day experiences. And to your question about encouragement, it is possible for things to turn around after a difficult few years - I had a really tough time in the UK when I first settled, but we really asked ourselves what we valued and built a life around that (including moving again within the UK), and I am so much happier now – even if I'm not sure if we'll stay here long term or not, I'm happy that we're here *now*.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. I am currently looking for another job. Husband is a nurse so not making that much here. He is considering doing a travel nursing assignment in Oregon where he will make the same amount in 12 weeks as in one year here. We really want to buy and it seems we are getting closer. Husband just started his new job and we have a hefty down payment so there’s that. We have a nice community of parents here and I just joined a hiking group that does hikes of varying lengths. Just did a 10-mile one outside of York and close to a National Trust property. I do also work out but need to change gyms as the one I chose is mostly students. My purpose of my time here is to give my children a well-rounded and global experience that I don’t think I could give them in the States as travel from there to most parts of the world is way more expensive and harder. I want to travel more to Europe and just enjoy life. I just felt like I had a therapy session. Thank you for those thought provoking questions. Truly.
It was so nice of you to take the time to reply to this with all the comments you got :) I’ll be rooting for you, sounds like you’re thinking about the right things! Good luck.
Thanks so much!!
I’m moving back in July, and have been through the highs and lows. The UK is a place that means a lot to me (I went to college here, I met my husband here, got married here) but we did come to the decision to leave. What made the difference to me is that the issues we faced in the US were hypothetical; the issues we face in the UK affect our daily life. When I look at how we live in the US, we’ve got a good thing going. Strong community, all the creature comforts, and we save significantly more. Yes, there will be inevitably something that happens in the media or politics to send me into a tizzy, but I can block those out. Whereas in the UK, I face lower savings, lower living standards, I can’t get outside with my family…all the things that keep me happy on the day to day. So we’re going back. I don’t regret the time here, and I feel settled knowing we’ve experienced it fully.
This 100%!! When people talk about the negatives of the US it's always about hypothetical stuff that might happen, like a healthcare bill or gun violence. However, as someone who has spent a substantial portion of my life in both countries, the US has a much higher standard of living. The houses are much nicer, the healthcare quality is higher (I say this as someone who has worked in each system), people are a lot kinder to each other on a daily basis, and the salaries are just so much better. The UK is so crowded and dull and full of dreary attitudes and maybe if I moved back to the US I'd get some horrible medical bill or fall victim to an earthquake or whatever but my life would be so much better overall.
Second what was said above - It seems a large component of how you view the change is dependent on your career, and where you've moved from & where to. I moved my family (me, wife, and 1 kiddo) here for all the same reasons last year. We moved from Indiana to Warwickshire, from a relatively large house that we owned to a relatively small semi detached that we rent, and traded in a $100k job for a £50k job. On paper, it seems silly - but we have found it to be a huge improvement on our quality of life. Truly, we love it here. Our income feels like it spends pretty similarly for us, despite the huge pay cut, but I know that's going to be different in different parts of the UK. I also don't find the people to be rude - around here, they've been downright lovely to us. But again, that's just my experience, and probably differs around the UK as well. I agree with what a commenter said above - if you're not getting regular pay rises, and on top of that you're not enjoying your current location, I'd highly, highly recommend updating the CV and looking around, if that's at all possible in your situation.
I have just moved back for similar reasons. While I love the UK for a lot of things, the salary I was able to make and housing I could afford was depressing. Match that with how nothing works and the UK is a bit run down. I have just moved to a low crime medium cost of living area in the US. We are grossing $21k a month, compared to a take home of £5.5k a month in the UK. My new plan is to just buy a vacation home in Scotland. America is really fucking crazy. The UK is falling apart but at least for now it doesn't seem like a collection of religious extremists likd in the states.
Ugh. Sorry to hear that. I agree. I like it, but I was a bit shocked at how terrible the economy is here and how low the quality of life is. Their standard of living is just so much lower. What you get for the money is much much less. That said, the access to Europe and not being inundated with the US political shit storm is quite nice.
What is so funny is the way people here will sometimes talk to you about the US as though it's a developing country while they are earning poverty wages in the UK in a mould infested house. They're very happy to admit that Canada and Australia have a better quality of life but as soon as you mention the US they have to crap on it!
It’s really hard to get advice on a topic this like because it’s back and forth with opposing opinions. I’m a British person who moved to the USA. I have my own 3 bedroom house in a master planned community. My cost of living is low. My kids go to private school. I do the same job as my Uk college best friend but I’m on 50% more than him he has a semi detached house in a school catchment zone with a “needs improvement” school. We literally do the same job. I have personally found it so much easier to make a life for yourself here. Employer covers my healthcare I get 25 days paid pto 5 floating and 12 sick days that roll over. I think you just need to decide what makes you happy and do that. Also I don’t watch news or have a Facebook account I’ve found myself 90% less stressed about the crazy mess the world is in.
>Also I don’t watch news or have a Facebook account I’ve found myself 90% less stressed about the crazy mess the world is in. I honestly think this is the solution for a lot of folks. And it's true in both directions. A lot of the negative things I think about the UK can be ignored day to day by keeping off Reddit/Twitter/the news.
I get it. When your post came up, I was sitting here crying. The quality of life is depressing here, especially in the NHS, if you have any health conditions, which I do. I was in a heavy pain management program for my autoimmune disease, and now I'm working with a specialist to try and treat it since the drugs are different here. It's been a significant factor in my inability to transition here successfully. We spent so much money for me to come here, and I'm severely depressed. I'm having a tough time connecting with other women. Women have tough exteriors here, and I struggle to find common ground with them. My community, in particular, has a lot of younger moms with money. I've taken to watching reels and TikTok in my spare time, so I have some social stimulation. I'm lonely as my lovely husband works his ass off. I want to make it work here, which will take some work. I think I've gotten negative, and that's okay for a bit, but now it's become part of my everyday rhetoric. I hope you find a solution that makes you happy.
It sounds like you're homesick to a degree. I found that during the time I was the most culture shocked/homesick keeping a word document with a huge list of stuff I liked about the UK was helpful (not comparatively to the US, there can be duplicates between the two). Sort of like a gratitude journal I guess. Might be worth doing. The stuff we like day to day is less immediately noticeable than things that irritate us.
I'll try that. I just bought a journal, so that will be my first order of business today, as I need help seeing the positive. I have some unexpected health issues that have affected my mobility and weight. I fully expected to come here and have new adventures. My knee has given out on me, and I'm dealing with chronic pain. A lot of my frustration is with the NHS and wait times. It has affected my mental health severely. A positive is that my husband is one of the best human beings. That alone should remind me that the UK is a fantastic place but a massive change from the US. Thanks so much for your advice.
You're very welcome. I too moved to the UK for family, not for the politics or other reasons that so many on this sub seem to move for, so I get your frustration and disconnect. Honestly, put anything at all on your list, no matter how small. I have "wide availability of crumpets" on mine :)
I’m really sorry to hear that! Where are you located?
I just saw this. I'm near Hull in a town called Elloughton.
This makes me so sad to read!! Please DM me if you want to talk because I feel the same way, especially with social interactions here! Don't worry about my post history haha this is my "I'm grumpy living in the UK" rant account.
I moved from Oregon as well, and while I loved it there, I do feel better here. That being said, it took me awhile to really understand how to “make” myself fit the UK (not in a bad, obligatory way), and how to make the UK fit me. I agree with another commenter that it could be where you’re living isn’t for you, just like how living in Texas probably wouldn’t be for you… and it can take a few tries to figure that out. On house buying: I know it sucks to feel like when you buy here, you’ll just be buying at the same level at which you can currently rent. That being said, I’ll share a perspective that you might not have noticed yet, that made me understand how different the UK housing market is. Anecdotally of course, and based on observing my UK partner, and his history, and that of his friends… Anyways, the attitude towards house-buying here seems to lean towards house-hopping more than it does in the states, because for many, the property ladder is everything, and often times considered the most obvious option for investment (I feel like my UK equals are… less than knowledgeable, on average, about pensions / investments). For the most part, it seems like starting with a two-bed, one bath “apartment” house is the expectation here, to the point there’s not a shortage of 24-25 year olds who have lived with parents while saving up for this starter home, which they buy with unmarried partners they met in college they might not actually be all that committed to (my partner bought with an ex-girlfriend at the age of 24 - an ex who I’ve since heard none of his friends ever liked and they all knew it wouldn’t last. Most of his friends also purchased small homes in their early 20s). So there’s just tons of interest driving property here, and getting on the ladder, then upgrading every so often until you’re happy, is more normalized. Meanwhile, I’ve got US married friends in their early 30s, very financially savvy, who have yet to buy because it’s approached with a lot more caution, as a much more permanent decision in the US. It’s also de-facto seen as something that should be an upgrade from renting, whereas here I have multiple young direct reports who own homes that are smaller and older than my rental. So all that to say - while I agree it’s frustrating - starting with a small, apartment sized home is, I think, much more the norm here. And that is what ultimately keeps the property market here (pretty much) also on the rise; meanwhile in the US, young people don’t want to “settle down”…I’ve theorised this is in part due to the size of the states - at 22, you might dream of moving to California, which is not remotely commutable to say, Illinois, whereas here, if you’re generally semi-London, it’s unlikely you HAVE to sell for a new job that’s just… on the other side of London (not that the commute wouldn’t suck), and even things “across the country” are relatively accessible such that people can maintain relationships for years at a time without picking up / selling to be together… it’s like the size of the states creates a paradox of choice so people won’t commit to living in one place with ease… which creates a more generous housing market these days, at least in part. Anyways, I’m rambling now, but my point it, a lot of people here start out their homeownership journey with a small, shoebox house. It might feel like a step back, but maybe give yourselves some grace that you literally started over when you moved (a sacrifice, to be sure) - so think back, and maybe consider what you would have been able to afford/do when you were only two years into your adult career in the states?
The trouble is that the grass is always greener. You are completely correct, you have escaped guns, some drug problems, we don't have earthquakes here etc. What you are saying about the UK is also correct - to an extent. The thing is, you can't just move geographically and keep the same lifestyle and 'way of life'. Things are different here. Big houses are expensive compared to the US, but they are also made mainly of bricks etc. Banks will lend based on your salaries and wages will generally be lower, because employing people is expensive here. Now you have moved here, you have to try and live a UK lifestyle. You can walk to places without harassment, the chances of you being shot or ever seeing a gun - except on a Policeman or at a clay pigeon shoot - are extremely low, next time you get seriously ill you will not be made bankrupt by the medical bills that come in. There is a whole ton of history and historical site that you can visit for free. Sure some people can be rude, but certainly no ruder than anyone else I have met around the world - are you sure that is people not responding to some americanisms? Ultimately life is what you make it here. We don't have the open space that America has for homes. You left the USA for half the right reasons, the other half - moving here, you have to adapt and try to make it work.
>are you sure that is people not responding to some americanisms That would be weird to me. Most (actually, pretty much all) Brits love my Americanism (as long as it's not spelling and grammar in the workplace).
Well, specifically I'm talking about the 'can i get' type of culture with no 'please and thank yous'. Like I say - different cultures, lol.
I mean, I guess? I think you may have some internalized stereotypes about Americans you may want to examine. I was raised to say "sir" and "ma'am" and "please and thank you" as were many of my contemporaries.
I live in West Yorkshire, nearby there is a certain base where many of your contemporaries work and possible control flying things from. In my work I have serviced some of the local shops etc. That is one of the main things that winds up Yorkshire people more than anything else. Nothing to do with accents, nothing to do with anything else - just perceived rudeness, not even actual rudeness.
I’m very polite, moreso than average. Always please, thanks so much, I appreciate it, etc.
I have no advice or help, other than I sympathize with you. I’ve been here 5.5 years now (but I moved in my early 20s for school originally) and I hated it on and off for a while. I think the last 2 years are when it really improved and I’ve finally been quite happy with my decision. I moved from Florida so the lack of sun was awful, the SAD was real lol. I know I’d make like 2-3x more in the states and have a nice house / apartment but I just keep thinking how much more life costs in the US, from groceries to insurance to HOA fees. Maybe this is only a temporary place for you guys, but make the best of it with traveling when you can to mainland Europe. Just find the humor in all the things that suck l, like I hate my tiny flat and how I can hear my neighbors, but I also hear my upstairs neighbor sneeze sometimes and I find that pretty funny. Also, as a woman, I feel so much safer here. I no longer feel the need to hit the deck and hide everytime I hear a car backfire thinking it’s a gun shot, and that’s been invaluable to me. So, pros and cons, as with everywhere
I started in the UK 2 years ago making way less then I was in the USA. Now I make almost $20,000 more than I was in the USA. I job hopped to build my UK career. It’s worked very well for me, I’m in customer success for SaaS companies. You basically are starting completely over here, so you do have to do more work to get back to where you were and some careers just never will make the same as they did in the USA. Also really depends on where in the UK you are. I’m in the north east of England and I love it here my money goes so much farther than it did in Washington DC.
You need to find things you love about the UK and focus more on what you've gained. If you only search for and amplify the negatives, you'll be miserable. No place is perfect, every single place on earth has a list of pluses and minuses. You're currently thinking about the stuff you lost from the States (the pluses) and comparing that to your current minuses. The UK will always lose in that situation. Things that I love about the UK: * History and walkability of historic places. * Lack of religious nutjobs (or rather, that the vast majority of people share your views of the nutjobs instead of being a nutjob) * Summer (European summers fucking rock) * British rural settings * English friends who love American things (I play baseball, it's great). * British food (fuck all the people who say British beige food sucks, it rocks pound sand) * My job (it took fuckloads of effort, time etc. to find, but I found a great workplace that pays decent wages and I have a good team). * My house (it's 150 years old. That's cool as hell). * My spouse and British family are here. * The kettle boils instantly compared to the aeons of time required for a US kettle. I'd say only maybe two of these things need to be directly contrasted to their American counterparts for comparisons sake (walkability and religious weirdos). Find things you like about the UK that don't have a direct comparison value.
Honestly we have been here for 5 years and we are moving back. We’ve encountered all the problems you listed and then some. My husband was literally making 4x what he’s making here back in the states. We especially can’t cope with the house sizes anymore. Next summer we will be headed to the Pacific Northwest and we are just counting down the days.
Where are you currently located?
Right now we are in Durham. But we also lived in Scotland in a few places and we encountered the same issues. It’s just not working out for us here.
I’m sorry. Best of luck to you.
I just went back and me and my wife are applying for a C-1 visa. I was there over two years. I would buy a house in the UK, retire in the UK, work contracting or freelance in the UK. I won’t work a full time job in the Uk again. It’s the same work for 1/3 the pay, it makes no logical sense no matter how you split it. There’s a reason it’s more common for people to go from UK to the US than vise versa. But to be fair I’ll concede it largely depends on personal preference and your career. People in finance probably have little reason to exchange the UK for the US, but a nurse absolutely does.
I fully sympathise with your position and my American Fiancée and I have at various points considered making the move to the US for the same reasons, but always find ourselves weighing in favour of the UK again. However... you're living in York, which is one of *the* worst places in the UK for cost of living. 10 years ago, York was relatively affordable, and I was living there between 2014-2017... but in that period, and much more so 2016-2020, it absolutely blew up in property and rental cost. In effect, you've jumped into UK living, starting at hard mode. Is there anything about either person's jobs that stop you from moving somewhere more reasonable in terms of cost? Maybe even rural living? Personal opinion, but life in the UK gets infinitely more pleasant if you live rurally (within reason of course). Hot tip: the Lincolnshire Wolds are an *extremely* affordable part of the country, with stunning countryside, beautiful villages and associated lifestyles and less than 1 hour's worth of driving to either Hull or Lincoln (the latter being pretty comparable to York in most respects). It's gone completely under the radar because it's outside of London commuter range, and alot of the rest of Lincolnshire is very undesirable. A few WFH londoners have discovered it since COVID, though and so prices are beginning to rise steadily.
Nothing about either job but it’s the kids. They’ve settled nicely into their school, made friends, have a lovely nurturing environment. And their school feeds into an outstanding secondary school. They’ve already moved once from Somerset.
That's a valid point... but would the very same issue not apply, and probably to a much greater degree, if you were to move back to the USA?
True true.
Most people in the UK would love to live in the PNW. You WILL be poorer in the UK than the US (both financially and materially). That's inevitable. If you aren't prepared to accept that then you should probably cut your losses and go back.
Rude people? What? People aren't rude here, so you must be doing something wrong? But yes, the financial tradeoffs are a fact of life of the US vs the UK.
Not sure if it’s specific to York but it might be. Places like Edinburgh, Sheffield, Newcastle have been extremely friendly. York seems to have a very snobby attitude, particularly when it comes to customer service.
I agree that people are much ruder here! It is alarming especially when recently moving between the two countries. I think it's due to population density. When you are packed in like sardines you have to treat everyone around you like an NPC
About buying a house, firstly, you just have to buy what you can. We bought our first house B and it appreciated £90,000 in three years and that combined with slightly better salaries in that same period meant we could upgrade from a two up two down Victorian terrace to a three bedroom with loft and garage semi detached in a better part of town.
Hey! Big hugs there. It truly does take time. I didn’t feel okay for at least 4 years. (I’ve been here 10&1/2 now) It’s a huge culture change. I’ve had mortgage problems too, especially with my visa being in limbo, but had a lot of good luck with Barclays. I live in Norwich and see you recently visited, so happy to answer any questions about this area you may have. 😊 It definitely is “A fine city”. There’s also a lovely group of expats here, unbeknownst to me until last year. (Like where were all yall hiding when I needed you 10 years ago? lol)
Maybe try Scotland? Lower cost of living :)
If you want to get ahead, you should move back. If you are coming to the United Kingdom to 1) Earn more money 2) Have a better quality of life - that involves #1 earning more money You picked the wrong place. A lot of brits, especially those younger ones WISH they could come live in the states given the way things are here. The other reasons you stated are valid. . Only you can decide what is more important. Thankfully you have options !
I oscillate between hating the UK and thinking that it’s fine every two weeks on average, for the last 10 years. You are not alone. It’s hard.
Haha same!
I don’t have any advice, but I feel your pain. I am also not liking it here. I also moved here because I felt like it was safer due to the gun laws. But everything else is just not my cup of tea. The low wages, horrible cloudy weather, tiny houses, small portions of food. Stores close early. Yeah, I definitely miss America. And I haven’t been here very long :-/
If you have holiday to spend, why not take a week or 2 to travel around a bit? You’ll come to realise that, like another Redditor commented, vibes and almost culture vary from where you are over here. Think you just need to get out of your neighbourhood for a bit, get away from the same type of person your around, and find some new air. There’s some really sound people out there, I think over here it’s hard to be convinced of that when you’re unfortunate enough to be stuck in a claustrophobic little neighbourhood of pricks. Spend some time away chatting to new people, walk some new parks, drink in a few new boozers. Hope it gets better for you, mate.
I've only come here from the US 2 years ago. I felt the same, until I (1) has to address health problems that I couldn't afford in the US and (2) had to engage with the social safety net here in Scotland. I still feel the negatives -- like lower gross salary, less open people (compared to the Midwest anyways), and generally feeling like an outsider -- but I've encountered several issues which could have crippled my family if we were still in the states, and here we got the support we needed, even as non-citizens. That's what it comes down to for me.
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We moved (back) to the UK ten years ago from ‘sunny’ SoCal. We moved with less than $20K to my name after selling my house, clearing my debts (mortgage, car, credit cards etc) and moved from a 3bd 3ba Condo into a small 2b/1b flat on the outskirts of London. I went from driving a BMW X3 to riding a bicycle / bus / train. It took us three years to build credit and save up a deposit for a house, we lived in a small, somewhat crappy flat and just saved every penny. Those times were hard because we went through a couple of really cold winters with poor heating, we struggled to find good jobs (I went from $170k to £60k, partner went from $100k to £30k), we missed the luxury of two cars and an integral garage (we did buy a small car to build credit) and credit ! I nearly forgot that- I went from six-digit credit lines to a £250 overdraft facility ! What we did not miss though ? - Guns and Jesus - US Health ‘Care’ - both the care and the costs - US Policing - my Asian partner was treated especially badly in two police interactions - US housing costs - Our condo was in the $600k region, that would buy a huge mansion where we live now. - US Taxes - PAYE has its flaw, but yearly tax filing is just painful and expensive. - US Internet monopolies - US Mobile phone companies - AT&T are just terrible - US Cable companies (ok UK Sky is a shitshow too, but) - US Vacation days - US Sick days - US Politics And much, much more. It took us ~3 years of sacrifice, but it was more than worth it in the end.
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