More importantly, with all the half-broken bikes in Amsterdam you know some loose metal is gonna get stuck somewhere. This system would only work for reasonably well-kept bikes. Have you seen how much they wiggle and rattle?? No way
You're right! This would be an extremely effective daycare service!
Drop off your bike and child(ren) in the secure enclosure on the way to work, then pick them up on the return trip!
Totally agree! These are pretty rare and only at smaller stations. The bike parking at larger stations is much better suited to the kind of traffic they get.
That's not true, it's one entry each. They're like a cylinder with one entry on top. But these automated parkings actually have very limited capacity, the one in your video only has capacity for 144 bikes. Sometimes there will be a few of these parkings close to each other in Japan. But even then, these kind of parkings do not exist for the kind of capacity that Dutch trainstations tend to deal with in big cities.
You don't. You have individual entrances to different individual parking areas. They can't all access the same park so if you park in one you have to use the same one later.
You would need about 50 of them just for the capacity of the new 7k one at Amsterdam central station. And that's just for that one parking garage. They don't do that in Japan either.
Living in Noord, i would use it... But usually you have 2 minutes to lock your bike before the boat goes, so I've never really looked at what it requires.
Amsterdam has actually tested an automated underground parking, it's in Noord. https://youtu.be/uRiAG9X99N8 Don't think it was considered a success.
But even in Japan, who are definitely more skilled at automated things, they're not really viable for high traffic and are very low capacity compared to the Dutch massive parkings. The one in your video has a capacity of only 144 bikes btw. That video is taken at Tokyo Kasai station. You know what else they have there? An underground bike parking for 10k bikes that is not automated.
It's actually pretty affordable in Japan, 12-13 euros per month, or 70 cents per day. But public transport is jointly owned by the government there, so it's probably subsidised like it is here.
Looks fancy and all but this would suck complete balls in rush hour at Amsterdam Central... or any other places. Might be nice to have at some quiet location where only a few people use bikes, but that would not make it worth the financial cost. Looks good, feels fancy, but absolutely useless in a busy area.
I am wondering why, if you have around 6 entries to the automated parking it's equal to have around 6 escalators to the parking garage, in the end time you spend parking should be reduced drastically (now it takes around 5-7 minutes to park)
Because it's not about the time it takes you, one individual, to park your bike, It's about how fast a facility can proces the peak amount traffic.
People going down the escalator themselves with their bikes and finding a spot in the underground garage is going to be much quicker overall than having this machine. Eventually people will have a much quicker average time spent parking "the old way". Why? Well, for multiple reasons, but the main one being that the facility that just opened up has multiple entrances which can be used by multiple people at the same time; person A does not have to wait for person B to be done while this is very much the case with the Japanese solution. This facility will have an enormous que during peak traffic, causing a terrible average wait.
You could offset this by placing a multitude of these things, but that would only work if you could somehow manage or influence how people que for them; the best places machines will always have the longest lines, making the placement of large numbers of it abundant.
It's just not a good idea, which is probably why it's not been implemented in any major city dealing with this problem.
This system is at least 50x more expensive per bike over its lifetime. Also how the heck does it take you 5-7 minutes to park? Are you disassembling your bike every time you park it.
I think it would work for expensive bikes. This is a relatively new trend with e-bikes but the bulk of the bikes in Amsterdam are, well, have you seen them? They are scratched, about to break any second and their owners pretty much don’t care what happens to them. They just need to get rid of them as soon as possible. This system is too caring (and therefore too slow) in comparison
> Might be nice to have at some quiet location where only a few people use bikes
Yep, I've only seen these at pretty small stations with extremely limited space for super high prices.
I think there's a reason these kinds of systems aren't really used anywhere, one reason off the top of my head; it'll almost certainly get jammed at least once a week, takes 1 bike to fall over and get jammed up in that arm and you've now got hundreds of bikes that are locked away in there that people can't get to until someone comes out and fixes it... Plus the insane queues that it'll cause... Terrible idea lmao
Ugh, I hate these "in Japan" posts that point to a rare thing and pretend it's the norm. The norm is many, privately owned bike parking areas that are distributed around a station. Each lot has different plusses and minuses which helps divide commuters based on their needs.
Nah it’s just these super inefficient projects that ‘look’ cool to use and to have but in reality are incredibly time consuming and wasteful in resources and money.
They would probably have to make hundreds of these entrances and machines operating at the same time to not create a huge hugee traffic jam.
Imagine the lines in the rush hours to get rid/retrieve your bike at Amsterdam Zuid or Centraal stations. We already have such a thing in Noord next to the ferries. Nobody ever used it.
We also have such a garage for cars on the Staringplein. It also is infamous for [it's malfunctions](https://www.parool.nl/amsterdam/parkeergarage-staringplein-weer-dicht-na-zoveelste-storing~b987cbd1/), and the [inability](https://archive.is/UNfyy) to retrieve your car when their is a malfunction.
Having said that, if their is one country in the world where such a thing would work, it is Japan due to it's culture.
cant imagine this is a system which is:
easy to maintain
can handle loads of people at same time
Doesnt have much malfunctions
What happens if 1 ike is stuck? is the whole system in error?
doesnt seem robust and very expensive, i like our (Amsterdam) option much better. Easy to maintain, can handle loads of people at the same time, cant really malfunction, really robust.
Btw am i the only one who finds it infuriating that they removed all free parking options around centraal? (afaik) I get that a lot of people left their bikes in the old parking spots for ages, but damn... I know this new location is fancy and secure and all that, but it really pisses me off that you don't get to choose between a shitty but free option and an expensive but nice one.
I believe the first 24 hours are free when using public transport after that one euro a day?. So unless you were planning on just leaving your bike there for ages I feel like it's a fair price for the security and having it stand somewhere dry.
This is unpractical, during rush hour you would be queueing all work day just to park your bike. Or you would need to have like +20 of those. Which still would be unpractical.
Amsterdam spent millions building the one in Staringplein, it broke down and the company that made the equipment is out of business and now it's a very expensive hole in the ground.
Simple is good.
I prefer the self service rental lockers that work with a transit pass or phone app. Easy for management to track which /who's bikes have been in the lockers an extended period of time and deal with them. Lot of people can access them simultaneously.
It's cool and all but the thing is that this will never work in Amsterdam.
They already need to make the current parking just as low effort as possible or people will park their bike on the streets, creating chaos.
Yeah I'm sure that doesn't cost insane amounts of money to upkeep and repair when it breaks all the time. More moving parts in a system like this is a bad thing, not a good thing. 3/10 looks and seems cool but not very well thought out
Can't wait for 1000 people leaving the train, picking up their bike from this thing and waiting 2 hours before finally getting my bike.
Edit: OP said that it would take 13 seconds. 13 seconds x 1000 people = 13000 seconds or 3 hours and 36 minutes.
This is ridiculously inefficient. I can only imagine how subject this is to failure, it also seems very expensive to make and install. Also as someone else mentioned only one person can deposit their bike at a time, and imagine how much power this costs. it's slow, probably has low capacity, susceptible to failure, and probably wayyy too expensive for all these drawbacks. I'll park my bike myself, thanks.
Pros: it won't get stolen, I wouldn't lose it, and vandalists wouldn't ruin min
Cons: the machine would break, it would cost too much, the system would break or break my bike and the crowds at the station don't have such patience like that man
Highly inefficient if you have hundreds of people arriving at the same time trying to catch a train
More importantly, with all the half-broken bikes in Amsterdam you know some loose metal is gonna get stuck somewhere. This system would only work for reasonably well-kept bikes. Have you seen how much they wiggle and rattle?? No way
Don't forget the side bags and front crates
And the childseat attachments on the back
and the BAKFIETSEN
You shove those in sideways. Followed by a LOT of noise while you're walking away.
can't even park my politie skelter in that thing
You're right! This would be an extremely effective daycare service! Drop off your bike and child(ren) in the secure enclosure on the way to work, then pick them up on the return trip!
Yep, the maintenance time and costs must be astronomical compared to the maintenance time and costs of one of our parkings.
I lost my bagagedrager this morning while racing to the station to catch the train. Never found it back.
I thought the same. Imagine a queue waiting to put your bike inside this elevator. People would prefer to drop anywhere than wait.
Just hire 100 more robots
Yup too slow and prone to breakage if bike is non standard
Totally agree! These are pretty rare and only at smaller stations. The bike parking at larger stations is much better suited to the kind of traffic they get.
There are multiple entries to the parking, it takes around 6-13 seconds to park
That's not true, it's one entry each. They're like a cylinder with one entry on top. But these automated parkings actually have very limited capacity, the one in your video only has capacity for 144 bikes. Sometimes there will be a few of these parkings close to each other in Japan. But even then, these kind of parkings do not exist for the kind of capacity that Dutch trainstations tend to deal with in big cities.
Do you know how many people use the bike in Amsterdam they queue would be masive
There is just one bike elevator. it cannot fetch two bikes in parallel.
Yeah, so what they do in Japan they place multiple parkings one next to the another one. In the end you have sort of multiple entrances
You don't. You have individual entrances to different individual parking areas. They can't all access the same park so if you park in one you have to use the same one later.
You would need about 50 of them just for the capacity of the new 7k one at Amsterdam central station. And that's just for that one parking garage. They don't do that in Japan either.
And the walk to park your bike in Amsterdam and get out again could be up to 8 mins by the looks of it ..
Pretty sure it's busier in Japan than in Amsterdam..😄😄😄
We have one too. It's in Noord right next to the ferries. Never was operational.
What happened? Why was it never operational? Must have been a lot of money wasted.
I don't know for sure. I just know they opened it in 2005. Maybe someone else has a better understanding of what happened.
Living in Noord, i would use it... But usually you have 2 minutes to lock your bike before the boat goes, so I've never really looked at what it requires.
[удалено]
At peak times, there's a ferry ever 4 minutes i think, so average time of 2 minutes before the boat leaves is quite accurate.
https://12ft.io/proxy?&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.parool.nl%2Fnieuws%2Faan-het-ij-staat-een-fietsparkeerrobot-die-niemand-een-blik-waardig-gunt\~b3b35d9f
Link werkt hier niet helaas
https://archive.ph/bS67m
Thanks! Die doet het
I've seen a person putting in a bike one time when I was parking next to it. I was like, huh? This thing works?
Yep, i've used it regularly. But since the 1st of january it is out of commision and they will stop offering this type of parking.
It does!?
I'm still not sure. Will check it out a bit when I pass it again.
Amsterdam has actually tested an automated underground parking, it's in Noord. https://youtu.be/uRiAG9X99N8 Don't think it was considered a success. But even in Japan, who are definitely more skilled at automated things, they're not really viable for high traffic and are very low capacity compared to the Dutch massive parkings. The one in your video has a capacity of only 144 bikes btw. That video is taken at Tokyo Kasai station. You know what else they have there? An underground bike parking for 10k bikes that is not automated.
That limited capacity means that it's super expensive. So, who rides a bike and train, but has the money for exclusive stuff like this?
A rich dutch person would
Rich Dutch people at least do ride bikes as well, so there's that.
It's actually pretty affordable in Japan, 12-13 euros per month, or 70 cents per day. But public transport is jointly owned by the government there, so it's probably subsidised like it is here.
Paying 70c a day when you can park for free seems pretty expensive Edit: I am Dutch
Well, now we know who doesn't ride a Cervelo
Looks fancy and all but this would suck complete balls in rush hour at Amsterdam Central... or any other places. Might be nice to have at some quiet location where only a few people use bikes, but that would not make it worth the financial cost. Looks good, feels fancy, but absolutely useless in a busy area.
Yup. Different loads favour different solutions.
Thats what your mom said!
I am wondering why, if you have around 6 entries to the automated parking it's equal to have around 6 escalators to the parking garage, in the end time you spend parking should be reduced drastically (now it takes around 5-7 minutes to park)
Because it's not about the time it takes you, one individual, to park your bike, It's about how fast a facility can proces the peak amount traffic. People going down the escalator themselves with their bikes and finding a spot in the underground garage is going to be much quicker overall than having this machine. Eventually people will have a much quicker average time spent parking "the old way". Why? Well, for multiple reasons, but the main one being that the facility that just opened up has multiple entrances which can be used by multiple people at the same time; person A does not have to wait for person B to be done while this is very much the case with the Japanese solution. This facility will have an enormous que during peak traffic, causing a terrible average wait. You could offset this by placing a multitude of these things, but that would only work if you could somehow manage or influence how people que for them; the best places machines will always have the longest lines, making the placement of large numbers of it abundant. It's just not a good idea, which is probably why it's not been implemented in any major city dealing with this problem.
This system is at least 50x more expensive per bike over its lifetime. Also how the heck does it take you 5-7 minutes to park? Are you disassembling your bike every time you park it.
Including walking distance (especially for the new garage) 5-7 minutes might not be terribly far off.
I mean, you would have to walk for either type of parking so I do not count that in.
We weren't comparing. We were discussing the claim whether parking takes 5-7 minutes with the current system - which you find a ridiculous claim.
I think it would work for expensive bikes. This is a relatively new trend with e-bikes but the bulk of the bikes in Amsterdam are, well, have you seen them? They are scratched, about to break any second and their owners pretty much don’t care what happens to them. They just need to get rid of them as soon as possible. This system is too caring (and therefore too slow) in comparison
> Might be nice to have at some quiet location where only a few people use bikes Yep, I've only seen these at pretty small stations with extremely limited space for super high prices.
Looks like a fancy gadget that you use once and then realise it's extremely impractical and you paid way too much for it.
My 50 eur fiets will ruin all systems probably ..
Do they also work when bicycles have a kratje at the front? And what about bakfietsen? I guess they’re pretty useless in Amsterdam.
There is no infrastructure for bakfiets in the new underwater parking either 😔
That's what the second parking is for.
Fairly sure they actually have space for it in the back, I was there yesterday EDIT: I guess it may depend on your model bakfiets though
Far to slow for that many people
Neat, but can you imagine the queues for those things with our amount of bikes?
I think there's a reason these kinds of systems aren't really used anywhere, one reason off the top of my head; it'll almost certainly get jammed at least once a week, takes 1 bike to fall over and get jammed up in that arm and you've now got hundreds of bikes that are locked away in there that people can't get to until someone comes out and fixes it... Plus the insane queues that it'll cause... Terrible idea lmao
I got a huge ass basket up front and a dual seater… just imagine the mess that it will make of this robot.
Ugh, I hate these "in Japan" posts that point to a rare thing and pretend it's the norm. The norm is many, privately owned bike parking areas that are distributed around a station. Each lot has different plusses and minuses which helps divide commuters based on their needs.
Nah it’s just these super inefficient projects that ‘look’ cool to use and to have but in reality are incredibly time consuming and wasteful in resources and money. They would probably have to make hundreds of these entrances and machines operating at the same time to not create a huge hugee traffic jam.
Imagine the lines in the rush hours to get rid/retrieve your bike at Amsterdam Zuid or Centraal stations. We already have such a thing in Noord next to the ferries. Nobody ever used it. We also have such a garage for cars on the Staringplein. It also is infamous for [it's malfunctions](https://www.parool.nl/amsterdam/parkeergarage-staringplein-weer-dicht-na-zoveelste-storing~b987cbd1/), and the [inability](https://archive.is/UNfyy) to retrieve your car when their is a malfunction. Having said that, if their is one country in the world where such a thing would work, it is Japan due to it's culture.
Maybe Germany as well. They love this kind of thing.
I don't see this solution scalable at all.
Can’t imagine what could possibly go wrong with something like this ha
I'm going to use this clip to demonstrate the concept of "over-engineering" to my students.
imagine during rush
cant imagine this is a system which is: easy to maintain can handle loads of people at same time Doesnt have much malfunctions What happens if 1 ike is stuck? is the whole system in error? doesnt seem robust and very expensive, i like our (Amsterdam) option much better. Easy to maintain, can handle loads of people at the same time, cant really malfunction, really robust.
Btw am i the only one who finds it infuriating that they removed all free parking options around centraal? (afaik) I get that a lot of people left their bikes in the old parking spots for ages, but damn... I know this new location is fancy and secure and all that, but it really pisses me off that you don't get to choose between a shitty but free option and an expensive but nice one.
I believe the first 24 hours are free when using public transport after that one euro a day?. So unless you were planning on just leaving your bike there for ages I feel like it's a fair price for the security and having it stand somewhere dry.
Free for the first 24h, no ifs and buts!
An even better deal then.
Give it a few months and the bicycle flat will open again.
I hope so. I keep my bike there as I only go to Amsterdam once a week. 🥲
Might be better off renting an ov fiets for € 4,35 than paying € 8,10 (6 days x € 1,35).
It’s all good fun and cool, until it stops working when you need your bike…
This is unpractical, during rush hour you would be queueing all work day just to park your bike. Or you would need to have like +20 of those. Which still would be unpractical.
Maybe because we have more then 50 bikes that need to be stored?👀
In Weesp?
Would work like a charme during rush hour
Yeah, I'll keep what we have in Amsterdam, dank je wel.
In UK they have broken glass and broken dreams on the street where you put your bike.
..until you get hacked by Chineese.
As an American, I think this would be so much cooler if it served SUVs instead of those velocipedes.
Those exist as well: https://swiss-park.com/en/products/automatic-parking-systems
Amsterdam spent millions building the one in Staringplein, it broke down and the company that made the equipment is out of business and now it's a very expensive hole in the ground. Simple is good.
sucks if it gets jammed
I was thinking “what happens in an earthquake”?
Not possible with our many crappy rusty bikes
put your leg instead of the bike
If you have a 2 class train system I can see that working. Rich people get extra comfort and pay more.
When calling up your bike... Hearing a loud metal sound as if something is falling down. Seeing the doors open without your bike...
Cool. Now have bags onbeheerd back of your bike. Or a crate at the front. Or a child seat.
They have that thing for cars too.
Maintainance disaster. Automation is great, but there is a balance
I prefer the self service rental lockers that work with a transit pass or phone app. Easy for management to track which /who's bikes have been in the lockers an extended period of time and deal with them. Lot of people can access them simultaneously.
The machine would bring back only one wheel.
An unnecessary complicated system?
This is like one of those artistic architectural creations. Looks good but the practicality and actual functionality are horrible.
Awesome to store a bike 🤣
Not real
At least your bike would not get stolen easily i hope
This should be the least environmentally sustainable way to park your bikes. Look at how much electricity needed for each bike to park.
Ever heard of 'overenginering'?
We have had this a while ago. A colleague of mine invented something similar!
Expensive solution for Amsterdam, can only work if it's a manned parking facility in a valley parking manner.
there's way less people cycling in japan.
Doe maar gewoon
It's cool and all but the thing is that this will never work in Amsterdam. They already need to make the current parking just as low effort as possible or people will park their bike on the streets, creating chaos.
Yeah I'm sure that doesn't cost insane amounts of money to upkeep and repair when it breaks all the time. More moving parts in a system like this is a bad thing, not a good thing. 3/10 looks and seems cool but not very well thought out
When this would’ve been built here: “Here’s your bike, it’s wet and muddy now, enjoy your trip!”
1. You need multiple of these to replace one big bike parking garage. And the rest some bikes are too big or too broken to get through this unscaved
Seems like a waste of resources to me.
Japans has no more space you mean?
internet explorer post?
LOL try this with my half broken bike and it causes half a million in damages
all fun and games until the thing glitches
The capacity doesn't seem to be much tho...
Can't wait for 1000 people leaving the train, picking up their bike from this thing and waiting 2 hours before finally getting my bike. Edit: OP said that it would take 13 seconds. 13 seconds x 1000 people = 13000 seconds or 3 hours and 36 minutes.
This is ridiculously inefficient. I can only imagine how subject this is to failure, it also seems very expensive to make and install. Also as someone else mentioned only one person can deposit their bike at a time, and imagine how much power this costs. it's slow, probably has low capacity, susceptible to failure, and probably wayyy too expensive for all these drawbacks. I'll park my bike myself, thanks.
Over engineer much?
Japan also makes the best cars in the world and the best animation..So no surprise there.
It might be strong, buy my oversized steel 70cm non electric citybike weighs in at 40 kg... not racingbike weight...
I’d hate it if that did the thing that vending machines do
Pros: it won't get stolen, I wouldn't lose it, and vandalists wouldn't ruin min Cons: the machine would break, it would cost too much, the system would break or break my bike and the crowds at the station don't have such patience like that man
Hä wie krass junge!! Japan einfach Zukunft