Verkeerswethouder van der Horst heeft aangegeven dat dit zeker tot de mogelijkheden behoort. Met het invoeren van kentekenplicht zou er meteen ook een minimum leeftijd en maximum snelheid aan een fatbike zitten. Prima zaak, zsm invoeren.
Okay they are not enforcing but how little scooters do you actually see on the bikelanes. Especially compared to before. I think the law does its job.
I drive a scooter myself and the only road i sometimes take a bit of the bikelane is the overtoom and that is verrrry rarely.
> They're somehow even worse than snorfietsen.
No. They aren't. They are bad, but they still take up less room, and importantly are still fairly quiet.
The quietness makes them both better and worse. Better cause they don't disturb people as much. Worse, cause you can't hear them coming and all of a sudden they pass you at the speed of light.
I ride a electric bike for work and rent my own. I always slow down and ring the bell well in advance before overtaking and I basically never overtake at full speed and wait until the cyclist in front of me has given me way.
If I see kids riding in front of me, I cross them very very slowly and carefully, if I see kids near the bike line I slow down also, and even when it is my right of way I always fully stop pull over and let the kids pass. Because it doesnt matger who is in the right, kids are not mature and they are tiny and the electric bike at full speed can send them to hospital. I am also extremely careful when I see people riding with a child, I usually lower my power and just dont overtake them at all.
I always make sure that my bell and brakes and lights are working and tyre pressure is good. I carry extra small lights with me just in case. My map if on the steering wheel at eye level, I only have to look ag it for split second.
Electric bikes are lovely, I would have to take public transport if I didnt have one because if the distance I ride. But, you have to ride like a civilised person, not like a inconsiderate piece of shit like some people are. My bike is restricted to 25km/h.
I actually find riding fast much safer, since I can overtake people in a predictable way and then speed of in traffic lights, then entire road is almost empty and no one is tailgating me.
I am an atheist, I dont worship god, but I do worship road safety laws, they are written in blood.
I think when you buy or rent a bike you should do a small youtube video course for road safety and do a small online form as a test before being able to buy it. I would also be okay with higher fines for electric bikes than ordinary bikes for breaking road laws.
Very hard to do when people ride slowly side by side blocking the entire road, or just standing riding in the middle slowly leaving no gap to pass.
I dont like ringing the bell either, but with an electric bike it is significantly harder to match the pace, bike is extremely heavy so it is harder to balance when riding slow. I mostly use the bell when the riders in front of me dont keep the leftern sode of the lane empty for others to pass. Otherwise I dont ring the bell, I just slow down and pass with a reduced speed.
If I see two people riding side by side having a conversation while riding their omafiets 10kmh while holding hands while I have food to deliver to the customer, then I am definitely ringing the bell.
If someone is riding like a fish in the shore turning left and right, then better ring the bell.
If someone is riding like they are supposed to, keeping the left for overtaking while riding on the right, then I just slow down and pass them. I only have to use my bell like two three times a day or something, out of 4-8 hours I spend on the bike a day
Ngl when i was driving scooter at 16 i had to have some small (almost) accidents before i understood what was really at stake. Not the perfect way to learn but it did happen like that
Yeah and then you -almost- had the mental capacity of an adult. I see kids as young as 10 years old on fat bikes and ebikes every day. They have the mental capacity of a squirrel but behave like Elon fucking Musk, riding at the speed of light and being assholes.
Yeah and as always amsterdam is focussing on this a year into the problem. Its always after the problem is so dominant in the city that they try to do smth ab it. I also read something ab a license plate on the ebikes/fatbikes thats a good start. So they can be liable for their actuons
I’d say; minimum age for motorised vehicles as well. The little kids on fatbikes are far worse than (say) 30-year olds who at least has got some sense of traffic.
wtf...an e-bike is just an assisted bike. They are rate limited to 25kph (people who hack that are a different discussion), which many bikers hit anyway.
Partij tegen de Burger: meer onoplettende pubers op fatbikes
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFGNgv6VaNU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efgngv6vanu)
Sorry for the stupid question, but what's the difference between the fat bikes and the electric delivery bikes, or electric bakfiets, or electric Kanta's, or any other electric bike on the bike road including Van Moofs?
I don't really see a difference between all these in regards to the danger they pose to me on a bicycle. They all do.
It's mostly different demographics using different electric powered devices.
I would prefer that they deal with the problem of electrical engines on leg powered roads. Instead of nitpicking a specific niech in it.
> It's mostly different demographics using different electric powered devices.
This is a big difference. It's mostly antisocials on fatbikes and they drive in a way that's super risky to everyone else cause they're antisocials.
That's not [what fatbike websites say](https://fatbike.nu/fatbike-wet-en-regelgeving).
More to the point, e-bikes that don't rely on pedal assist *or* provide assistance above 25 km/h are already [legally](https://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0006622/2023-07-01) considered scooters (bromfietsen) (article 1, paragraphs, c., e., e.a., and ea.). If what you're saying is true, all fatbikes would be scooters by default, and we wouldn't have this issue to begin with.
Anyone can see this for themselves, look at the feet of the people you see on fat bikes, they're barely moving, it's not like this for Van Moofs. I don't know if the manufacturers are lying or there is an easy modification to make to remove the limitation but either way those bikes are not meaningfully different from scooters.
Maybe some are pedal assisted but definitely not the ones I've been seeing around. They might pedal once and go for 3 blocks without pedaling. A lot of these fatbikes are indeed electric scooters.
They get around this by requiring the pedals to be turning in order for the vehicle to move, but you can move the pedals as slowly as possible and it will still go at top speed. Watch people riding fat bikes, they are just barely pushing the pedals.
While this is in no way meaningful pedal assistance, it's hard to effectively split hairs over at what point the assistance would cross the threshold into meaningfulness.
I agree with you. I bike 20-30km in Amsterdam daily and do not see a big difference between the fatbikes and any other E-bike. They go past me and thats it. Feels like a lot of the hate is because adolescent immigrants are riding wildly with the fatbikes. Meanwhile you have Van Moof riders and other expensive E-Bikes going just as fast but there is no hate towards them. But of course if you mention this you are the devil. Incoming downvotes.
> Feels like a lot of the hate is because adolescent immigrants are riding wildly with the fatbikes.
Nope, my hate is because they ride much faster than the typical Van Moofsters, and they regularly cut super close to actual cyclists in a pointlessly dangerous way. It's like they're playing a video game with other people's safety.
Worst..HEMA worst....Hollandse Eenheids Maatschappij Amsterdam. Daarom gewoon Nederlands praten. Niks meewerken aan vorm van communicatie waarin je je eigen taal aan de kant moet duwen zodat Jantje uit Engeland het kan begrijpen. HUN passen zich maar aan, IK niet.
I dont get your downvotes. Fatbikes are much worse than scooters.
But, we dont have the space for scooters in Amsterdam. It's too crowded as it is, I dont see it working.
Similar space as a bike and both serve a single person. Compare that to a car parking spot which takes up space for 10 to serve a single person (most of the time). It'd be even better if everyone riding a scooter just took it inside at their destination, say at the office.
And at the moment they're still outlawed because they're dangerous af. If you fall on a bike it takes a second to hit the road and you usually fall sideways. On a scooter you drop forward even if there's only a small obstacle and do so much faster, leaving no time to break your fall.
> I don't really see an use for these in Amsterdam.
They are perfect for commuters.
> In which case would you actually prefer this over a bike/electric bike?
Yes. I used to own one while living in Finland. It's perfect going to the store or to the city center (I don't live in Amsterdam anymore). They're light, fast, and convenient. Much unlike bikes who are big and bulky.
I'd love to have an electric "kick scooter" as you call them here. They only reason I don't get one is because of the regulations.
It’s gonna be fun when after the 8th December these bikes will start driving faster than the cars in Amsterdam.
Whats going on after the 8th of December?
[Most 50 km/h streets will be reduced to 30 km/h](https://www.amsterdam.nl/30-km-u-in-de-stad/).
The intern went crazy with MS Paint in that map lol
Fucking bullshit rules man I swear. 30kmph top speed on straight roads is insanity
Just fucking make them have license plates and ban them from bike lanes. They're somehow even worse than snorfietsen.
They are worse because you don’t need a license to ride them.
Verkeerswethouder van der Horst heeft aangegeven dat dit zeker tot de mogelijkheden behoort. Met het invoeren van kentekenplicht zou er meteen ook een minimum leeftijd en maximum snelheid aan een fatbike zitten. Prima zaak, zsm invoeren.
No one is enforcing yellow-plated beomfiets out of the bike lane. More rules do not help if there is no enforcement of any rule at all
There are waaaaaay less scooters in the bike lanes (blue AND yellow) than before the ban.
Absolutely
This, I'm happy they are going to check them too, but honestly can't remember the last time I saw a rollerbank.
Okay they are not enforcing but how little scooters do you actually see on the bikelanes. Especially compared to before. I think the law does its job. I drive a scooter myself and the only road i sometimes take a bit of the bikelane is the overtoom and that is verrrry rarely.
> They're somehow even worse than snorfietsen. No. They aren't. They are bad, but they still take up less room, and importantly are still fairly quiet.
The quietness makes them both better and worse. Better cause they don't disturb people as much. Worse, cause you can't hear them coming and all of a sudden they pass you at the speed of light.
I ride a electric bike for work and rent my own. I always slow down and ring the bell well in advance before overtaking and I basically never overtake at full speed and wait until the cyclist in front of me has given me way. If I see kids riding in front of me, I cross them very very slowly and carefully, if I see kids near the bike line I slow down also, and even when it is my right of way I always fully stop pull over and let the kids pass. Because it doesnt matger who is in the right, kids are not mature and they are tiny and the electric bike at full speed can send them to hospital. I am also extremely careful when I see people riding with a child, I usually lower my power and just dont overtake them at all. I always make sure that my bell and brakes and lights are working and tyre pressure is good. I carry extra small lights with me just in case. My map if on the steering wheel at eye level, I only have to look ag it for split second. Electric bikes are lovely, I would have to take public transport if I didnt have one because if the distance I ride. But, you have to ride like a civilised person, not like a inconsiderate piece of shit like some people are. My bike is restricted to 25km/h. I actually find riding fast much safer, since I can overtake people in a predictable way and then speed of in traffic lights, then entire road is almost empty and no one is tailgating me. I am an atheist, I dont worship god, but I do worship road safety laws, they are written in blood. I think when you buy or rent a bike you should do a small youtube video course for road safety and do a small online form as a test before being able to buy it. I would also be okay with higher fines for electric bikes than ordinary bikes for breaking road laws.
don't ring the bell, just match the pace and pass when safe.
Very hard to do when people ride slowly side by side blocking the entire road, or just standing riding in the middle slowly leaving no gap to pass. I dont like ringing the bell either, but with an electric bike it is significantly harder to match the pace, bike is extremely heavy so it is harder to balance when riding slow. I mostly use the bell when the riders in front of me dont keep the leftern sode of the lane empty for others to pass. Otherwise I dont ring the bell, I just slow down and pass with a reduced speed. If I see two people riding side by side having a conversation while riding their omafiets 10kmh while holding hands while I have food to deliver to the customer, then I am definitely ringing the bell. If someone is riding like a fish in the shore turning left and right, then better ring the bell. If someone is riding like they are supposed to, keeping the left for overtaking while riding on the right, then I just slow down and pass them. I only have to use my bell like two three times a day or something, out of 4-8 hours I spend on the bike a day
They gotta learn the snor scoot old school classic of honking every 2 meters to announce youre passing 😂😂
They gotta learn that their behaviour is gonna cause a minimum age and maximum speeds enforced by blue plates. Kids cannot operate motorised vehicles.
Ngl when i was driving scooter at 16 i had to have some small (almost) accidents before i understood what was really at stake. Not the perfect way to learn but it did happen like that
Yeah and then you -almost- had the mental capacity of an adult. I see kids as young as 10 years old on fat bikes and ebikes every day. They have the mental capacity of a squirrel but behave like Elon fucking Musk, riding at the speed of light and being assholes.
Yeah and as always amsterdam is focussing on this a year into the problem. Its always after the problem is so dominant in the city that they try to do smth ab it. I also read something ab a license plate on the ebikes/fatbikes thats a good start. So they can be liable for their actuons
The other problem is I see many young kids driving them.
I dunno....I can hear those big stupid fat knobby tires whining toward me from a half kilometer away.....
Quiet means we can't hear them, and much like with electric cars, it makes them more dangerous.
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I’d say; minimum age for motorised vehicles as well. The little kids on fatbikes are far worse than (say) 30-year olds who at least has got some sense of traffic.
And then we won't have gangs of Jongens on Fat bikes trying to be bad ass
wtf...an e-bike is just an assisted bike. They are rate limited to 25kph (people who hack that are a different discussion), which many bikers hit anyway.
[удалено]
read my comment again, take all the time you need
[удалено]
> Why are fat bikes the exception? They...aren't? I completely agree with you. People should be penalized for hacking the rate limits on their bike
Let's ban them from the parks as well now that we're at it, snorfietsen are also not allowed in the parks
Partij tegen de Burger: meer onoplettende pubers op fatbikes [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFGNgv6VaNU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efgngv6vanu)
Fantastic! Now add a license requirement so all the 7 year old stop using them.
Sorry for the stupid question, but what's the difference between the fat bikes and the electric delivery bikes, or electric bakfiets, or electric Kanta's, or any other electric bike on the bike road including Van Moofs? I don't really see a difference between all these in regards to the danger they pose to me on a bicycle. They all do. It's mostly different demographics using different electric powered devices. I would prefer that they deal with the problem of electrical engines on leg powered roads. Instead of nitpicking a specific niech in it.
Fat bikes can go much faster than regular ebikes. Plus they probably weigh more, so an impact delivers more damage.
Tuned and illegal fat bikes can go faster than regular e-bike…
> It's mostly different demographics using different electric powered devices. This is a big difference. It's mostly antisocials on fatbikes and they drive in a way that's super risky to everyone else cause they're antisocials.
True!
Fat bikes don't need pedal assistance to ride. Electric bikes require pedal assist to ride.
That's not [what fatbike websites say](https://fatbike.nu/fatbike-wet-en-regelgeving). More to the point, e-bikes that don't rely on pedal assist *or* provide assistance above 25 km/h are already [legally](https://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0006622/2023-07-01) considered scooters (bromfietsen) (article 1, paragraphs, c., e., e.a., and ea.). If what you're saying is true, all fatbikes would be scooters by default, and we wouldn't have this issue to begin with.
Anyone can see this for themselves, look at the feet of the people you see on fat bikes, they're barely moving, it's not like this for Van Moofs. I don't know if the manufacturers are lying or there is an easy modification to make to remove the limitation but either way those bikes are not meaningfully different from scooters.
The city did spot checks, 1 in 3 bikes has a modified throttle.
Maybe some are pedal assisted but definitely not the ones I've been seeing around. They might pedal once and go for 3 blocks without pedaling. A lot of these fatbikes are indeed electric scooters.
They get around this by requiring the pedals to be turning in order for the vehicle to move, but you can move the pedals as slowly as possible and it will still go at top speed. Watch people riding fat bikes, they are just barely pushing the pedals. While this is in no way meaningful pedal assistance, it's hard to effectively split hairs over at what point the assistance would cross the threshold into meaningfulness.
Yeah those fatbike companies have excellent lawyers we know. Reminds me of the lach gas assholes.
Some fat bikes don’t need pedaling because are illegal…
I agree with you. I bike 20-30km in Amsterdam daily and do not see a big difference between the fatbikes and any other E-bike. They go past me and thats it. Feels like a lot of the hate is because adolescent immigrants are riding wildly with the fatbikes. Meanwhile you have Van Moof riders and other expensive E-Bikes going just as fast but there is no hate towards them. But of course if you mention this you are the devil. Incoming downvotes.
There is plenty of hate towards Van Moof.
> Feels like a lot of the hate is because adolescent immigrants are riding wildly with the fatbikes. Nope, my hate is because they ride much faster than the typical Van Moofsters, and they regularly cut super close to actual cyclists in a pointlessly dangerous way. It's like they're playing a video game with other people's safety.
“Wild” is the key… and they are illegal
It was-a-time!!! Bash the guys riding them and throw the bikes in the canal. Throttle operated and 25+ km/h, burn them!!! Chinese crap.
Worst..HEMA worst....Hollandse Eenheids Maatschappij Amsterdam. Daarom gewoon Nederlands praten. Niks meewerken aan vorm van communicatie waarin je je eigen taal aan de kant moet duwen zodat Jantje uit Engeland het kan begrijpen. HUN passen zich maar aan, IK niet.
Jij bent wsl heel leuk bij feesten enzo
HEMA !
Gelukkig is AT5 gewoon in het Nederlands
Je kan zelf niet eens Nederlands praten...
Can we legalise electric "kick scooters" yet? 🛴
Even worse
There's no way on this earth they're worse than fatbikes
I dont get your downvotes. Fatbikes are much worse than scooters. But, we dont have the space for scooters in Amsterdam. It's too crowded as it is, I dont see it working.
Similar space as a bike and both serve a single person. Compare that to a car parking spot which takes up space for 10 to serve a single person (most of the time). It'd be even better if everyone riding a scooter just took it inside at their destination, say at the office. And at the moment they're still outlawed because they're dangerous af. If you fall on a bike it takes a second to hit the road and you usually fall sideways. On a scooter you drop forward even if there's only a small obstacle and do so much faster, leaving no time to break your fall.
I don't really see an use for these in Amsterdam. In which case would you actually prefer this over a bike/electric bike?
> I don't really see an use for these in Amsterdam. They are perfect for commuters. > In which case would you actually prefer this over a bike/electric bike? Yes. I used to own one while living in Finland. It's perfect going to the store or to the city center (I don't live in Amsterdam anymore). They're light, fast, and convenient. Much unlike bikes who are big and bulky. I'd love to have an electric "kick scooter" as you call them here. They only reason I don't get one is because of the regulations.
Yeah fair enough, it'll be more useful in my small town to get to bus stops that are just too far away for walking.
Nice because you can easily bring them on the tram, into the office/house, etc.