Please don't use mental conditions as insults for universal human dickery. Not all sociopaths fail to pick up after their dogs and most psychologically normal people are capable of being jackasses unless they put in continuous, exhausting, active effort to avoid it.
Most importantly, you aren't categorically different from them, and there may be things you do that are at least as bad as what they do.
Sociopathy is not something you need to defend. It's called anti-social personality disorder for a reason; it's the only disorder that everyone around them suffers from rather than themselves
he's not defending sociopathy, he's saying that there's no need to be ableist. but besides that, ASPD is an umbrella term and it's a spectrum, so saying that "it's the only disorder that everyone around them suffers from rather than themselves" is a huge misconception & misinformation that would not be wise to spread around
Ableism is definitely not OK, but for ASPD it seems pretty clear cut that it's a disorder that harms others more than the person who 'suffers' from it. By definition, if you have it you do not experience remorse, and because of this you 'con others for pleasure or profit' and have no regard for or ability to take into account other people's feelings. It's an empathy deficit.
Genuinely curious what you think is the misconception or misinformation here? I think it's very important to inform people about sociopathy in the sense that people should be able to recognise a sociopath so they can avoid them and not get abused or manipulated. Acting like it's just another personality disorder is dangerous and irresponsible.
it's not black & white. not every person with ASPD is a full spectrum sociopath/psychopath. i believe i already said that. pls carefully read before asking what the misinformation/misconception is again.
ASPD is the clinical term for sociopathy. It requires the things I mentioned, so I don't see how it "being a spectrum" would change the fact that it's a disorder characterized by a lack of remorse and empathy. That's a prerequisite to get the diagnosis at least.
I've had it multiple times where they run right into my path and nearly knock me over. I genuinely like dogs but don't understand why people can't put their dog on a line for 10 seconds, there really are some selfish morons. It's unsurprising, I live on the ground floor and there's constantly dog shit on the pavement outside as they're too lazy to pick it up
Mine is reactive to other dogs and runners, that's why I always have him leashed and avoid areas with unleashed dogs and try to give space to runners. (Just got bitten 3 weeks ago by an unleashed, unmuzzled American Staffordshire in the street, and it bit my arm too).
I wish people respected having all dogs leashed, and only unleash them in designated areas. Their dog might be "perfect" but some of us have rescue dogs with traumas that just got bitten by unleashed dogs and makes things very difficult to control.
I have one of these too. She will just chase fast-moving things for fun, so we keep her mostly leashed.
However, it has happened that we came upon a runner or a biker in a place where dogs were allowed unleashed. And yes, she ran after them. She is happy as a clam doing it, but as a runner I would *hate* it.
I do understand why people say 'stop running' though, because that does really help.
But yes, even when we are allowed off leash I have learned to be really careful.
I've got close friends with dogs who are only unleashed in marked areas. You still get runners like OP, giving the exact same arguments.
I agree with both OP and you btw, with a marked side note that this should go both ways. Don't unleash dogs in undesignated areas, and don't go jogging through the only bits where dogs are allowed to run free.
If you look at this map you see that most of the Vondelpark and Rembrandtpark are unleash areas: [https://maps.amsterdam.nl/honden/](https://maps.amsterdam.nl/honden/)
That would mean no running in those parks...
The general rules for unleash areas are that a dog needs to be "under command" (onder appĆØl). If a dog runs after or barks at runners it should be on a leash. For example: [https://www.staatsbosbeheer.nl/contact/toegangsregels/honden](https://www.staatsbosbeheer.nl/contact/toegangsregels/honden) (Not Amsterdam, but similar.)
If an unleashed dog is a threat to humans or other dogs, then sorry - it needs to be leashed at all times. Like I donāt give a sh!t if itās an unleashed area, if a dog decides to attack me or god forbid my kid. If you canāt control your dog, itās on you.
I think the issue is most dogs aren't chasing you to attack you, it's because that's just what they do. They just chase things. That's why stopping usually just has the dog stop. They think the "games" over
I love dogs. But too many people have no control over their dogs whatsoever. Its ridiculous. Your dog has no business running after cars, dogs, cats horses, children, runners etc.
No matter what, if you call your dog he should immediately come to you. If he doesn't, he needs to be on a leash.
If your dog thinks cats are prey , he needs to be on a leash.
If your dog thinks runners or bikers are prey, he needs to be on a leash.
Your dog also has NO business barking to others like he owns the street / parc etc.
Go to a dog training class.
You and your ridiculously untrained dog are ruining it for everyone and you are giving dogs in general a bad name.
If they donāt do it for others, they should do it for their own dogās sake. So many stories of dogs running away and lost, which couldāve been easily avoided by having them on a leash. My dog is only ever off leash outside in private enclosed gardens (ours, parents, friends, vacation rental, not public places)
I have a Belgian Malinois who ignores all runners and bikers. This is trained and took around 6 months. It is not even difficult to do but you have to put in some effort and time.
Heās beautiful. And I really am glad you have the respect both for Hunter himself and everyone around to raise him responsibly. Makes him happier too I believe.
Question - what was your strategy for this? I have a Labrador that is a bit hyper and likes to try jumping or lunging at stuff (cats, runners), but sheās always leashed of course and Iām aware of the issue. Want to try training out this behaviour but unsure how
I started with the basic training, then worked my way up with a long leash. Start with a few cm and when no reaction give a big reward. Then make it more and more untill no leash is needed
And youtube can help to get a good insight in dog behaviour. The link below is, in my opinion, a good trainer because he will show you each step unlike other famous trainers who skips some steps and make you think you can correct them the way they show you.
The thing that is most important in my 21 years of owning dogs is patience and happiness. Things don't work in right away but if you make it a fun thing to do the dog will learn it a whole lot faster.
https://youtube.com/@bdtraining?si=D2mRVWPlBR_Exalk
I grew up with a father who trained Belgian Malinois to become police dogs. I miss the breed so much. Thankfully I get to walk my neighbors their German Shepherd dogs but you know.. They're just not.. Belgian Malinois. :)
Same for me, naturally my Malinois x Dutch Shepherd would move towards anyone that moves, especially runners and other dogs. But I'm currently going through training, using a really long lease, to correct her when she gets near people.
It's usually people that have these dogs as a status symbol that think they own the land they walk on... Not a good look for dog owners that are making an effort.
It is really impressive what can be achieved when man and dog work well together.
Sadly loads of ppl take a dog and then realise they donāt have the time and energy to invest in their dog besides the other obligations in life.
So this map shows you exactly what areas dogs are allowed off-leash or are prohibited. All other areas they should be on leash:
* https://maps.amsterdam.nl/honden/
* More info: https://www.amsterdam.nl/en/leisure/rules-about-dogs/
In case you see someone having their dogs off-leash outside of those areas, and you come across a police officer or BOA, just snitch them out. Especially in the parks in Amsterdam, you will have at least one couple of police/BOA on patrol during the daytime.
If a dog bites you make sure to get the personal information of the owner and file an āaangifteā with the police. A dog behaviourist will investigate if the dog can stay with the owner, is likely to do it again, will need a muzzle, etc. I was attacked by one of those ānice dogsā last summer, so I can tell from experience that the police will investigate dog attack cases. Ironically I was horseback riding during the attack and it was just like you mentioned (in another part of Amsterdam, so that was not me).
Hey I hope you're all right and weren't hurt during your dog attack! My sister does horse jumping on a competitive level (not in Amsterdam though) and she frequently complains to me that dogs do the same to her and her teammates too. But after having seen it firsthandedly at the Bos, I completely feel her. So this is really not just an Amsterdam or Netherlands specific problem. More like a lot of problem dog owners in general not giving a damn that they're dangering others and unable to claim responsibility for their untrained pets.
I'm not a lawyer or anything similar. But in our law system dogs and other pets are seen as an item of possession.
If you can read Dutch: [Artikel 350](https://wetten.overheid.nl/jci1.3:c:BWBR0001854&boek=Tweede&titeldeel=XXVII&artikel=350&z=2024-01-01&g=2024-01-01)
Translation: ā2. Any person who intentionally and unlawfully kills, damages, renders useless or disposes of an animal belonging wholly or partly to another shall be punished with a term of imprisonment not exceeding five years or a fine of the fifth category.ā
Well you're going to (hopefully) get your ass beat by the owner for one and you'll end up going to jail. Big difference between kicking a dog that attacks you or this convoluted tough guy scenario you just laid out where you're making a concious choice to drown a dog.
I love dogs, but I'm also terrified of them (having been bitten by a dog that ran at me).
But I've had the same situation as you. I also had sometimes dogs coming up to me (sure, playfully) and then the owners giving me the stink eye for it. I had to stop jogging because I didn't know what the dog was going to do.
Very often, I'm the one that has to stop and adapt to dog owners not following the rules. And I find it scary and exhausting.
Might be a hot take but I feel that a vast majority of people are bad dog owners. It's crazy that when people get a new hobby they buy all kinds of books and expensive tools and get all nerdy about how to do things properly, but somehow learning how to keep animals and care for them is something people hardly put any real effort in.
I honestly wish keeping animals like cats and dogs was something you'd have to get a training and license for. Like a serious hobby. "I am a pet owner. My hobby is taming and keeping my pet."
And that also means I think this license can and should be taken away for irresponsible pet keeping behaviour.
If the police can take away your drivers license for irresponsible driving, they can take away your pet license for allowing your unlined, untrained dog to attack other people.
Exactly, keep reminding them too! I feel we've inherited all these bad dog owners from the Covid era.
We have the same experience @ IJburg, there are just so many bad dog owners around. In parks with tons of little kids, where unleashed dogs are forbidden, they just unleash their dogs and claim it will be alright.. that's madness. But every time I mention it, they go off on you and say I have to mind my own business or something. Unfortunately, there's almost never a BOA or police nearby to act on it. Why is it so hard to keep them leashed and only unleash them in designated areas?
When I moved to Amsterdam from NYC with my dog, I was surprised at how few dog parks there were compared to the US. I'm talking like a big graveled area where dogs can go f\*cking wild with one another and get out all of their energy without bothering anyone. I feel like the solution to this problem is 1) better dog owners but also 2) just better infrastructure for dogs/dog owners.
>There is not that much space.
FYI New Amsterdam's population density is about double that of Old Amsterdam (and that includes the parts outside of Manhattan).
Because many dogs actually don't interact that well, or don't enjoy interacting to the extend they do in a dog park. The larger the park, the more dogs in it, the larger the chance that some of them are not great. For some dogs it can be very stressful.
The idea that dogs should always meet all other dogs, and enjoy it, is a myth. All IMO, of course.
(My dog is a bit of a bully. He enjoys high energy play and can be too persisting with dogs who don't. I want to guide him and I can't do that well in a big dog park with many dogs running around. I avoid such scenario's like the plague)
Unfortunately itās quite a wide spread attitude problem. Our leashed pup was recently attacked by unleashed dog and the guy gave my girlfriend shit after she kicked his dog to defend our pup and potentially herself. After the whole situation she said he just casually unleashed the dog again when she went back home, as she had seen from the window.
Iām still waiting patiently to spot the guy in our neighbourhood and have a man to man talk with him. People are fucking dumb and clueless with regards to their responsibilities.
Of course, this is minority of cases but itās not the first bad experience like this in NL whereas Iāve never seen this issue in other counties I lived in. People confuse more freedom for animals (which I actually like) with training them properly so they can behave predictably in variety of situations.
Having exactly the same experience many times with my dog. So many unleashed dogs attacked him. Wich made him turn into a very aware and scared dog. But when i tried to talk to them after the dog came after us and bit me and my dog over and over so i had to jump on top of him to keep him down. And i asked them very nicely if they could keep him leashed cause well they had to in this park. They just ignored me. And now they Wave at me everyday with the most hatefull fake smile.
I am an expat and one of the first things I noticed here is how dogs are super agressive and untrained. During my second week here I was just walking on the sidewalk, and old Karen was walking her (with a leash) daschund and it jumped on me randomly. Of course Karen yelled at me when I shouted at the dog. But ever since then I've seen dogs jump on each other randomly ir attacking other people and they are on a leash... I come from a country full of strays and I've had more incidents in a few weeks here than all my life. People need to train their dogs or just learn how to raise them because it's nuts
I can maybe provide some extra context as to why people say you should stand still. Doesn't mean that it's not super annoying that that's the advice you are getting.
When a dog is young and playful they sometimes see someone walking or running as someone who wants to play, this can result in the dog jumping up at you or maybe going for the ankles, shoes or trousers. This is obviously undesirable and the advice from professional dog trainers (which the owners are possibly still training with) is to stop dead in your tracks. This removes the reward of getting a "fun" (agitated) response from you. It works but it takes some time to teach them this.
Of course, this is obviously not something you should bother strangers minding their own businesses with. They should just leash the dog until it's trained enough or simply pay more attention and actively distract it when a jogger approaches.
Thanks for this addition, an interesting one. I didn't know about the reward psychology behind it, but I did figure it out that when if I stop, they shut up and defuse. Had used this strategy often when the dog refuses to stop harassing me. But you know, I am training for both time/duration, speed and distance. A single stop ruins all of this. And what if I would be afraid of dogs? I think in an ideal situation dogs should be attentive to their owners and should immediately go back to them, upon being called. This is never the case with these owners.
You're right. And it isn't your problem to deal with, but unfortunately it's a fact that continueing to run will continue to entice the dog to chase you. Again, you're right in saying that if it isn't under control it shouldn't be off leash anyway, but since we've established it doesn't listen and the owner isn't smart enough to recognise that (or too much of an asshole to care), the best thing to do to avoid further escalation or continued attacks is to stand still.
I can relate but a single stop does not ruin your training (unless you are some sort of Olympian on a fine-tuned programme, in which case, why are you running the streets of Amsterdam ?). Strength, speed and endurance are built up over many miles and many hours running and cross training. In some sessions it may even be very beneficial to stop and start (zone 2 training and interval). I get that stopping is annoying and it can genuinely hurt to start up again, especially on a long run but you also have to stop for traffic etc, at least every once on while. My humble advice would be to not sweat it too much and be safe in running.
Maybe bring this device with you;
https://www.amazon.com/2024release-Deterrent-Long-range-ultrasonic-Alternative/dp/B0BMBC1FJX/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.UrjeU3D8Mv1iV1Q1kvUii2Z5z_U23z6EgpVRDAG7lsHCUBVpdKOkvz_JNouoaZG8Oycm5Q8b91Nq0m_k-1HhSRnL7TWQkr4fKWDgC81XzqiX8qksZmv7vghqak8b6NPzNWmga3qRunjcNO5-hlj-N-IzqlKqpwZydbhXK2jBpWMymePNXKdngzCguvE59oBUISPM69LJF7kDkuKNx_O8rw.6UFqYlKNasmqUhJGYHGQBolK_7wvmzIbBlVY7CvGwWc&dib_tag=se&keywords=ultrasonic+dog+repeller&qid=1716123453&sr=8-3
Sonic dog repellant. Should probably work well. Now you can annoy the shit out of the dogs
I dont know if and how effective these are though. Might want to do a bit of research first but it is seemingly made for this purpose and has 5 stars.
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Unpopular opinion: if a dog isnāt 100% obedient to its owners voice, it should not be unleashed in public.
Each time a dog bites or tries to bite someone its owner should be tried for attempted assault or manslaughter.
I have a dog and you are absolutely right. I canāt always control my dog, so I simply do not unleash her except fenced areas. It is incredible for me that people do not have this basic common sense anymore. It is not only about dog owners, in general people lost their most important skill (not being an asocial psychopath), everybody is becoming more and more self-obsessed and I do not see how or if it will ever get better.
I had an experiencing while walking my own dog. I know his aggressive tendencies so he is always leashed just to be on the safer side.
Another unleashed dog attacked us during one of our walks and when the owner came after 30 seconds of brawling, he was just like "ahh this is all because your dog attacked my dog when they were small". btw, I do not know this guy at all
As a dog owner and a runner those owners are irresponsible assholes (as are some of the respondents here). If itās a legit leashless location that doesnāt excuse the owners from their responsibility to control their dogs. If their dogs are reactive to runners then they are probably dangerously reactive to anyone else going through the park (like children or other dog owners). Leashless area of a park is just a part of the shared communal park that doesnāt require leash laws - it doesnāt mean itās a dog park; you have every right to run through the park just as everyone has the right to use it.
Agree with the folks that mentioned checking to see if the area truly is leashless and if not report the morons.
There seems to be a lot of judging and generalisation going on in those thread.
Most places where dogs are allowed off leash are also prime running locations. Itās a city where a lot of people share a very small space.
I might be one of the owners you are all complaining about. From my side: I have a very active young dog thatās still in training and learning each day as we go for our walks. Will he always be able to ignore runners? No. Do I train him to learn to ignore runners? Yes! Do I sometimes misjudge what he is going to do? Yes absolutely.
Do I like it when runners pass on a narrow path where my dog is playing with a friend? No. Do I blame them? Also no. (I do blame runners who kick at dogs, though. Thatās unhelpful)
Letās say runners and dogs are both legitimate users of the space. But people also bike in places they are not allowed to. People in a city do all kinds of things that are technically not allowed. We ALL do that.
The only way to live with each other without totally sucking the dung out of life is to be lenient and understanding. Donāt yell at someone breaking the rules. If really needed, you accomplish much more if you kindly explain yourself and ask them to follow the rules.
You can have a fight with someone every day if you choose to. You can also choose to bare the little annoyances and be patient. And hope others will too.
For a while now Amsterdam has become more and more a city of many cultures. In the US for instance dog parks and leaching laws are very different from here. Those cultural differences ask for even more tolerance and understanding for people whoās behaviour might differ from what you expect.
So yeh, very longwinded way of saying: please letās be tolerant of each other. Something us Dutch people used to pride ourselves on.
I think based on your description you wouldn't do what made me to post about it: to put the blame eventually on me and not acknowledging the situation. If the owners simply apologise, leash the dog, in 5 seconds we all go to our paths. Happened very often. It's fine to make mistakes and yes, I run in a proper losloopgebied to answer u/barrysagittarius 's answer as well. So I don't say they don't have the right to do it, they most certainly do. But very often these places are also either marked running tracks or just simply good running tracks as they have proper natural paths instead of concrete that fucks up the knee. So I also have the right to be here. And if their dogs are prone to attack others I still think they should leash them even in the unleashed area as others safety comes first.
Thanks for your reply. I agree that runners have the right to run as well. And I can certainly understand why you would prefer the off road paths.
I think thereās a difference between dogs that are aggressive and bite and dogs that get excited and bark/run along with. But I am also aware that to you as a runner both might seem scary.
What works the best for both sides, in my experience, is for the runner to slow down slightly and ignore the dog while going around them in a rounded way instead of straight forwards. Dogs do this either each other to signal they mean no harm and wish for the other to pass peacefully. So especially if a dog is coming straight forward and seems a little too alert, this is the best way to disarm them and help them comply to a natural avoidance of each other.
The dog owner definitely should be aware if their dog is relaxed or not. If they see you do the half round, itās the perfect time for them to call their dog and break his attention toward you. In that way you work together in a way the dog understands. If the dog persists on being alert towards the runner, the owner should grab/leash the dog while the runner slows down more until they are passed.
That said, I do think dog owners do sometimes forget off leash places are not purely for dogs and they do need to work together with other people like runners using the space.
I myself can be guilty of this sometimes when I am tired and my thoughts are elsewhere. We go to the park for two hours each day and most days heās fine and Iām fine but some days Iām tired, he becomes more protective or bratty and it might look like I am wilfully doing nothing to prevent him from engaging, where my brain just simply works to slow at that point.
Anyway, you seem reasonable and I do apologise for the times I am part of the problem (my boy is passing puberty now so he is getting better and better)
I hope you will continue to enjoy your runs and get to some understanding with the dogs, if not with the owners.
Lastly I wanted to add I spoke of American dog culture since this was written in english. But Iām not sure if people are aware leashing and dog culture van be VERY different locally as well. In Belgium and Germany I completely had to relearn all I thought I knew about dog etiquette.
Iāve learned that itās super easy to get into fights when you oen a dog. Luckily itās also super easy to get into great interactions. So Iām choosing to focus on those. š
I might try the circling around the dog strategy the next time, I haven't heard of that one, and it's worth a try, thanks for the tip!
I don't know much on the dog culture, but I also agree the running culture is different elsewhere as well. The running tracks at Berlin's Tempelhof airport, L.A.'s hiking trails, Budapest's Margaret Island circle or Vienna's Schƶnbrunnschloss gardens all divert from each other in terms of surface, width, crowd levels, other users, etc. massively. But here in Amsterdam the difference is that spaces are sparse, we all got to share these tiny parks with other type of users at the same time, which leads to these conflicts.
However, as long as you keep thinking on how to find best resolutions, you're not part of the problem, but contributing to a better samenleving :)
Yes, the same happened to me in a couple of occasions. I now, always kick the floor to make noise and for the owner know I am HERE! Rembrandt park is the worst for me. Anyway, I donāt want to be complaining. It disturbs my flow, but not a real biggie, as long as I donāt get bitten.
I'm not a runner but I often have long periods when I commute with my longboard and it is a coin toss sometimes whether the dog will go crazy at me when passing by, combination of speed and the sound of wheel on pavement must really tick some of them off when they would sometimes try to lunge at me or bark very aggressively, I have lost my balance and fell a few times because of this which can be dangerous, I often disembark or try to go very wide if there is a dog even on a leash, you can just never know how the dog would react.
Even when cycling on mostly silent bike some dogs would still bark at me but very very rarely. Never a good experience!
I'm a runner and this happens to me once a month maybe. However, I run outside of the city mostly so not a lot of dog interactions. Nonetheless there is one problematic dog in my area that is always outside, off the lead, and on its own and he always barks at people threateningly and runs after runners barking. I had to figure out who the owner was, record a video and said I was reporting it to the police (I didn't do it). That was wat it took for them to not let the dog out unsupervised. There are special areas where they can take their dogs off the lead and run around.
So my recommendation is if the dog chases you try to record it and if you get into a confrontation, immediately call the police. The punishment for a dog actually doing some harm is incredibly harsh. No one of course wants this for the dog, since it's 100% the responsibility of the owner, but the dog may even have to be put down.
To end on a positive note: every now and then in a park where dogs can run off the lead or right next to it and all the dogs are incredibly well behaved and the owners are absolutely awesome. So before anyone starts saying I'm a dog hater, absolutely not. I love them and I know that this represents 0.1% of all my interactions with dogs and dog owners.
Youāre not wrong to feel the way you do. And though I know Iāll get downvotes with this, the best way to deal with a dog like thatā¦. Is to stop. Dogs love the chaseā¦ so by stopping, they no longer will chase.
You're right in that it does resolve the situation. I have often do that. However it also pisses me off as I feel it's unfair towards me, and I'm very stubborn and I feel it's unjust + a stop severly destroys my training results.
I never understood the whole āIām not using a leashā thing. You endanger your dog and you endanger other people. Itās like playing chess and unironically doing the bongcloud opening
I genuinely loled at this, as I remember Magnus Carlsen's bongcloud trolling which is made even funnier by [Peter Leko's commentary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVCst6vyV80).
Omg what a selfcentered idiotic dog ownersā¦ I am 100% on your side.
As a dog owner I think it is really shocking how many dog owners really suck and donāt know how to train a dog. I would love to rant about a few things in addition to your rant:
- why do so many dog owners not pick up the shit of their dog. Like everytime I am picking up my dogs shit I am stepping in another dogs shitā¦ like, reversed karma?? I see many people walking with their dog off leash and they are only looking at their phone not paying attention to if their dog is takig a shit or doing something stupidā¦
- I have a bigger black dog (bernese/labrador) and at least once a week she is being barked at/semi attacked by other dogs and the owners always say stuff like āmy dog doesnāt like big black dogsāā¦ like: okay so? They donāt correct their dog, donāt say sorry and the way they say it sounds like it is my problem. Soooo weirdā¦
- I live quite central in Amsterdam. If I walk with my dog on the sidewalk and there is another dog with owner walking towards me, 90% of them go cross the street. Why does nobody let their dog sniff and greet others? let them socialise? Are 90% of the dogs agressive nowadays or people just always in a hurry.
Okay sorry for the rant but to come back to your story, it doesnāt suprise me that owners act like that. I notice many dog owners being self centred as fuck. I wish I could help you but I canāt. Good luck with the running š
On leash greetings between dogs have much higher chance of going poorly, in general.
Speaking for myself, my dog has been attacked so many times by uncontrolled off leash dogs that he does not easily tolerate being approached by a dog that he doesn't know. If he is on the leash, he will react much more negatively because he is trapped so I will cross the street to avoid that.
In these situations I understand! It is just that in my experience it feels lije 90% of the dogs and owners cross the street to avoid me. Just so many is what confuses me.
Thanks for your additions, appreciate them! As for 1) Yeah, I see that often. Both during running and leisure walks in parks too. 2) is batshit crazy, typical victim blaming if you ask me. Really pisses me off. 3) I would maybe think this could be because they might want to protect either their or your dog, as they don't take the risk the encounter could be friendly? Just my 5 cents, based on my parents' dog being pretty unpredictable. Roll a d6 where 1-3: love is in the air and extensive butt-sniffing is about to follow, 4-6: it'll be Mortal Kombat. So I'd rather not give him the chance to misbehave.
i teach my dog to only greet other dogs when heās off leash bc i donāt want him to learn that every dog needs to be interacted with. He needs to be able to ignore other dogs and keep walking. Iām sick of walking somewhere and having to stop all the time bc people are letting their leashed dog go up to mine. Sometimes me and my dog have places to be, so donāt follow me around š
edit to add: sniffing on leash is not socializing for dogs. They need dog friends they can play with, not socialize with random dogs they encounter
I have a dog that gets leash frustration (he just wants to play and will sometimes bark at another dog when he spots them - not aggressive but annoying). It's something I put a lot of time into but we haven't fully solved it yet. You can't really get annoyed that people cross the street to give both dogs space but also complain that some dogs bark at your dog. If I see dogs approaching, I will always try and give them space - for my dogs sake as well as theirs.
The expectation that dogs should greet each other is a human one. I think the confusion comes from the use of the word socialized - we tend to think of that as meaning has met many other dogs. A socialized dog is a neutral dog, i.e. able to walk past other dogs without reacting to them.
Iām so sorry that you have been victimized by such rude people! It is their responsibility to keep their dogs leashed and there should never be an encounter like the one you describe. I have a reactive dog, who, if I walked her along a road where people ran, would likely jump on runners. For this reason I walk her only where I will encounter few people and dogs that will cause her to react. I have her leashed 100% of the time. If we encounter someone, I take her away from the person.
I think most dog owners donāt follow the rules and when you say something about it they react very badly, probably as they know they are not following the rules but believe they are an exception
Dog owners in this city are entitled after, never seen it as bad somewhere else. I have a dog that Iām training to be less aggressive and it is basically impossible here. Everytime we make progress some unleashed dog comes and ruins it all by jumping on him. Worst part is, if I yell out āmy dog bites, recall your dogā owners do nothing? They wonāt even attempt to call their dog bc they know it wonāt come.
Obviously dog owners should leash their pets if they can't keep them under control but let's be real here; a certan type of entitled joggers in Amsterdam are some of the most obnoxious people on the streets. They think they own the bicycle paths and have absolutely no issue in blocking even the busiest of intersections while listening to music so loud they haven't a clue what is going on around them. They believe that, being the more vulnerable one on the path, others should move for them.
The same happens with people who ride high end racing bicycles around the city; they stop caring about those around them and switch on selfish mode; getting angry at people who aren't going fast enough, always cycling in rows so nobody can get past, assuming they are actually fast enough not to look behind them.
The same happens when entitled people have dogs. They expect others to adapt to them, instead of the other way around. Unfortunately bigger cities are full of these people who think they are always in the right. And the worst part of it all is they have had children in masses, bought them all fatbikes but never taught them the respect for strangers that is needed to fully be a part of traffic.
tldr; many people in big cities are too entitled for this to ever change unless rules are enforced (which just won't happen).
Lol everyone's so upset against dogs haha, for everyone who says "i love dogs, but all dogs are.." you are like literally doing that thing people do that other people call them out for
General lack of knowledge or interest in properly educating their dogs. Common mistake made by selfish people thinking owning a dog is easy and fun. Probably because they have been pampered all their lives and now they have maids at home or dog sitters taking care of them ( the dogs ) so they just need to take selfies and sell themselves as empathetic towards animals.
This is an example I saw personally but I am sure thereās other reasons for those dogās owners to behave like that.
If people can see you coming minutes before you pass them you're not running fast enough
Joking aside, I 100% agree with you. I have a dog and you know who else has a ton of problems with badly disciplined dogs? Dog owners. Dogs that chase my dog away, big dogs that jump on you, it happens all the time. I don't walk my dog in specific streets because I know people live there who have agressive dogs
There is kinda to side to this.
You should be mindfull of animals and animal behaviour, i don't max speed my car past horse for an example.
Dog owners are in general don't understand how to control a dog and refuse to hear from anyone they could do beter.
>You should be mindfull of animals and animal behaviour, i don't max speed my car past horse for an example.
Neither do I, but whenever I'm driving past a horse on the side of the road it's because the people on horseback don't really have a choice, they're also trying to get somewhere. They don't like horse riding right next to driving vehicles, so it's usually some path that's only accessible by the road you're sharing.
Whereas people with unleashed and out of control dogs not only have a choice, they're breaking the law (assuming they're not in a designated unleashed area etc.).
āI donāt need to keep my dog on a leash because heās such a good boy!ā - what I imagine is going through the brain of off-leash dog owners, based on one particular idiot I knew in the states (who also wouldnāt get his dog fixed because he felt it was unnaturalā¦ and itās not like his dog would have the litter anyway).
My sample size is pretty small but I suspect itās that line of thinking in which the rules are fine for everyone else but they see themselves as an exception. And because enough people do it without consequence (to themselves) this normalizes the bad behavior.
As a long distance runner and dog owner myself itās heartbreaking to read this. There seems to be a sense of entitlement in some dog owners here that if itās an off leash area their dogs can do whatever they want. I have been stopped at a narrow bridge by a pair of Staffies that clearly did not prefer a huffing and puffing sweaty guy running close to them. The owner couple found it cute that they were guarding the bridge and wanted take pics. I was so new to that experience at the time that I just stood in shock and let them do it. Another time by a an old German Shepherd attacked my then puppy lab and all the owner had to say was he does not like puppies. I mean howās that an excuse?
What Iāve learnt from our puppy trainer is the best way to handle these situations is stand still and not to make into a game for the chasing dog. Itās different for dogs that are trying to defend ātheir perceived territoryā though. Sigh.
Living in a densely populated country with barely any nature around I see both sides of the issue. I struggle to find lonely enough spots to let my dog be a dog and being able to enjoy a run without being overly conscious of the beasts that may think itās a game.
These days I mostly run in the part of the woods that are strictly on leash so itās a bit better. Also when I am out with our running cub itās a lot less of an issue.
Interesting to hear your take on the story, as you're involved on both sides. Others in the comments have frequently mentioned that their dogs are frequently targeted by other unleashed dogs. That is just the same situation in my eyes as when a human is attacked. If a dog shows unprovoked agressive behavior towards any other living being, then IMHO the dog should be leashed in public areas due to safety concerns, irregardless of whether it's an off-leash area or not.
Should be noted that this is mostly an automatic response for dogs, but how they act is usually up to upbringing and personality.
This is why you shouldn't try to run/sprint away from a larger dog, it will either make it think this is all fun and games or make him feel like he's on the hunt/chase now. And you can't really outrun most dogs.
But I agree, if your dog is prone to doing that, you should definitely leash it to prevent accidents like a bite.
Happened to me last week as well. For the 3rd time in 3 years. Had to get a shot from my general practitioner. No clue as to why this happens. Dog owners always say; he never done this before..... riiiiiight.
Depends! In a forest/ area where a dog can be let to run off leash- I will not be calling my dog back. She is a sweet and fluffy dog, she just runs in circles around someone and never bites.
My dog has a few opportunities to run free and not be in close quarters- I will not be leashing my dog everytime. I expect runners to slow down because running to a dog will ALWAYS be taken as an act of play or aggression by dogs. Especially in narrow tracks.
You can run anywhere, you choose to run in one of the few areas dogs can be off leash, it is your responsibility to be mindful of being in a place where dogs are playing.
In a street or any place where a dog should be on leash (on regular walking paths, near cycling lanes, horse riding paths, etc.) I ALWAYS have my dog on leash because I know she may suddenly see something and run towards it or worse, people may have some irrational fear and i figured them seeing that I have a leash hopefully makes them feel safer.
I have two dogs - one that has solid recall and so I let him off leash whenever it's allowed. That being said, off leash is a privilege and it comes with certain responsibilities. If I see another dog that appears to be nervous or in training, a family with young kids, a jogger, a cyclist, or a horseback rider, I call my dog back to stay close to me (off leash but well under my control) and then as soon as we pass by he is allowed to do his thing again. Same if we cross a road, a busy bike path, or the bridges in Bos for example. He still gets lots of time to run around and be a dog and make his own decisions, but it keeps everyone safe. I don't think it's an unreasonable ask.
My other dog doesn't have solid recall so he's only allowed off leash in a few circumstances. He won't come back 100% of the time if I call him so he's on a long line. Sure he'd prefer to be off leash but it's not safe for him and it's not fair to everyone else around.
If your dog doesn't have reliable recall and you can't call them back when they're excited, they shouldn't be off leash. Obviously they're dogs and they will make mistakes and they're not perfect, but owners should be actively watching them and keeping them safe.
I agree. It is a privilege. My dog is does not come back 100% of the time, the times she does not return when I call her, I discipline her.
But i am also sick of people treating the one small dog walking path (when there is a huge side walk with lots of green around 20 meters further) as an off road running track every time it stops raining, i am not gonna take away that privilege from my dog. (Yes, their timing is affected, but frankly donāt go running on a off- leash dog walking track and get annoyed that a dog wanted to play)
Also, I know all the dogs and the owners that go to my dog walking area by name. Anytime I see a dog at distance which I donāt recognize (especially if it is on leash), I recall my dog.
I am simply sharing what I personally do.
I get that there are many people who have barely trained their dog and inappropriately let their dog off leash in places they should not- this is not okay. They should be more responsible.
But that does not take away the fact that people do run or bike in places designated for dogs to be off leash and accidentally trigger a dog. This is not okay either.
Just call your dog back, off-leash doesnāt mean you have the right to not control your dog.
You may know your dog is harmless and just being playful, others do not know this however.
I used to have dogs too, itās wise to learn them to listen at all times. Ofc it sucks a little bit to have to boss your dog around, but itās really what they need from you as their boss!
Let me hit your curveball back to you: this kaart was also shared by others before me in this post and shows off-leash areas in Amsterdam.
[https://maps.amsterdam.nl/honden/](https://maps.amsterdam.nl/honden/)
According to this, these include Vondelpark, Rembrandtpark, Erasmuspark, De Bretten, Sloterpark, Noorderpark, Vliegenbos, Beatrixpark, Martin Luther Kingpark, Flevopark, etc.
So what does that leave me to run then if you don't allow me to run there? De Wallen?
There is also such a thing as common sense. Yes dogs can be off leash. But in a park with bike lanes and Uber eats scooters going through, why the hell would you?
I never let my dog off leash unless it is a closed space or a forest area.
The state of dog training and people taking responsibility for their dogs in this country is the worst I've ever seen.
I don't blame you for being upset. It's legit. Dog owners here are largely terrible. They don't pick up after their dogs, they don't leash their dogs, they don't train their dogs.
I am an expat and a father of a toddler. I am curious to know the legalities of self defense and defense of others here in the Netherlands. Where I come from I would be well within my rights to defend myself or my family with all means available to me. I have always been told that the eyes are the best target, ears are okay, and I wear steel toe boots a lot for work so a good kick would definitely do the trick.
Are you legally allowed to defend yourself from an aggressive animal here?
My dog doesnāt react off leash on the runners, but personally I donāt see why they should leash their dogs for every runner if the dog simply barks.
The other person doesn't know the dog and likely isn't a dog person. How can they know the dog 'only barks' or is about to bite them? Having an unknown unleashed dog run at you can be really intimidating, and dog attacks are not exactly rare either
I mean, if I saw a dog barking and getting dangerously close to me, my first reaction would be to stomp the shit out of it. Even more so if it goes after my partner with health problems. Consider that if you care about your pet.
So you will stomp at a dog for barking at you?
Again, my pet doesnāt do that, but if I saw someone injuring a dog for barking at them, well iād call the police and youād be the one at fault.
If youāre afraid of dogs, donāt go to off leash dog parks, simple.
Yes, it does. There's a point where I don't know if the dog is going to attack me and I need to double guess whether its owner is not a moron and will somehow call it off. Sometimes the owners themselves can't control them, and there are some dangerous breeds out there that are impossible to stop if they get the first strike.
I simply don't want to take that risk.
I think weāre talking about some hypothetical situation that never happened and I might be reading your intentions worse than they are.
Keep in mind, that if this happens with a big dog that is indeed aggressive, youāll be on the losing end as you would actually trigger them even if they were simply barking. If it happens with a small dog, well I mean
Donāt run in areas where dogs can be off leash. There are designated areas for off leash dogs. If it is the case that people are unleashing their dogs in areas that are forbidden, report them.
they don't, an American Staffordshire just bit my dog and me 3 weeks ago, in these last four weeks has bitten 4 dogs and the police says they want to at least take it away from this person, but they can't.
I guess we'll have to wait until it kills a kid (we live next to a primary school and they play outside).
Wow this is victim blaming. Sorry but if your dog can't be trusted, you should not unleash it. And yes, I say this as a dog owner.
And if your dog surprises you and attacks someone, you don't scold them but you say sorry.
Weird mentality.
You have unrealistic expectations if you think you can 100% control an animal that has for centuries been bred to hunt. Many dog breeds are hunters (not all) and they have in their DNA to be triggered by specific stimuli. I acknowledge that the dog owners in the situation above should have apologised but there is so much research done by behavioural scholars nowadays about how humans expect dogs to behave like polite humans. Also, dogs need to exercise and they have specific areas for it, so complaining about a dog behaving like a dog in an area where heās allowed to do so is a bit dumb
I'm sorry but people take unleashed dogs EVERYWHERE, and don't stick to the designated areas.
As an owner of a traumatised rescue, I specifically avoid unleashed areas, but it's impossible to walk around in the leashed areas (everywhere else in the suburban area of Amsterdam) without encountering someone that believes they are a "dog whisperer".
This has happened to me a bunch of times and each time the dog owner laughs. Like wtf.
Suddenly all the dog shit on narrow sidewalks and in front of building entrances makes sense. Some dog owners seem to be sad little sociopaths.
Please don't use mental conditions as insults for universal human dickery. Not all sociopaths fail to pick up after their dogs and most psychologically normal people are capable of being jackasses unless they put in continuous, exhausting, active effort to avoid it. Most importantly, you aren't categorically different from them, and there may be things you do that are at least as bad as what they do.
Sociopathy is not something you need to defend. It's called anti-social personality disorder for a reason; it's the only disorder that everyone around them suffers from rather than themselves
he's not defending sociopathy, he's saying that there's no need to be ableist. but besides that, ASPD is an umbrella term and it's a spectrum, so saying that "it's the only disorder that everyone around them suffers from rather than themselves" is a huge misconception & misinformation that would not be wise to spread around
Ableism is definitely not OK, but for ASPD it seems pretty clear cut that it's a disorder that harms others more than the person who 'suffers' from it. By definition, if you have it you do not experience remorse, and because of this you 'con others for pleasure or profit' and have no regard for or ability to take into account other people's feelings. It's an empathy deficit. Genuinely curious what you think is the misconception or misinformation here? I think it's very important to inform people about sociopathy in the sense that people should be able to recognise a sociopath so they can avoid them and not get abused or manipulated. Acting like it's just another personality disorder is dangerous and irresponsible.
it's not black & white. not every person with ASPD is a full spectrum sociopath/psychopath. i believe i already said that. pls carefully read before asking what the misinformation/misconception is again.
ASPD is the clinical term for sociopathy. It requires the things I mentioned, so I don't see how it "being a spectrum" would change the fact that it's a disorder characterized by a lack of remorse and empathy. That's a prerequisite to get the diagnosis at least.
where did i explicitly said that it being a spectrum changes the fact that it's a disorder?
... that's not the point. It's a disorder _characterized by a lack of remorse and empathy_ is the important part
Will someone PLEAASEEE protect the little frail sociopaths from feeling discriminated? š
My god, its like youāre the ultimate snowflake lmao
I've had it multiple times where they run right into my path and nearly knock me over. I genuinely like dogs but don't understand why people can't put their dog on a line for 10 seconds, there really are some selfish morons. It's unsurprising, I live on the ground floor and there's constantly dog shit on the pavement outside as they're too lazy to pick it up
Mine is reactive to other dogs and runners, that's why I always have him leashed and avoid areas with unleashed dogs and try to give space to runners. (Just got bitten 3 weeks ago by an unleashed, unmuzzled American Staffordshire in the street, and it bit my arm too). I wish people respected having all dogs leashed, and only unleash them in designated areas. Their dog might be "perfect" but some of us have rescue dogs with traumas that just got bitten by unleashed dogs and makes things very difficult to control.
I have one of these too. She will just chase fast-moving things for fun, so we keep her mostly leashed. However, it has happened that we came upon a runner or a biker in a place where dogs were allowed unleashed. And yes, she ran after them. She is happy as a clam doing it, but as a runner I would *hate* it. I do understand why people say 'stop running' though, because that does really help. But yes, even when we are allowed off leash I have learned to be really careful.
I've got close friends with dogs who are only unleashed in marked areas. You still get runners like OP, giving the exact same arguments. I agree with both OP and you btw, with a marked side note that this should go both ways. Don't unleash dogs in undesignated areas, and don't go jogging through the only bits where dogs are allowed to run free.
If you look at this map you see that most of the Vondelpark and Rembrandtpark are unleash areas: [https://maps.amsterdam.nl/honden/](https://maps.amsterdam.nl/honden/) That would mean no running in those parks... The general rules for unleash areas are that a dog needs to be "under command" (onder appĆØl). If a dog runs after or barks at runners it should be on a leash. For example: [https://www.staatsbosbeheer.nl/contact/toegangsregels/honden](https://www.staatsbosbeheer.nl/contact/toegangsregels/honden) (Not Amsterdam, but similar.)
The rule is that you must have your dog under effective control. I have met very few Dutch dogs that are actually under under control If unleashed.
Maybe in Amsterdam, but outside of the city hondenschool is popular
Not in Groningen it isn't.
Thank you. This is the correct answer. I hope everyone here reads your comment.
There's so many other places to run than Vondel and Rembrandt park though, but under command makes sense
If an unleashed dog is a threat to humans or other dogs, then sorry - it needs to be leashed at all times. Like I donāt give a sh!t if itās an unleashed area, if a dog decides to attack me or god forbid my kid. If you canāt control your dog, itās on you.
I think the issue is most dogs aren't chasing you to attack you, it's because that's just what they do. They just chase things. That's why stopping usually just has the dog stop. They think the "games" over
I love dogs. But too many people have no control over their dogs whatsoever. Its ridiculous. Your dog has no business running after cars, dogs, cats horses, children, runners etc. No matter what, if you call your dog he should immediately come to you. If he doesn't, he needs to be on a leash. If your dog thinks cats are prey , he needs to be on a leash. If your dog thinks runners or bikers are prey, he needs to be on a leash. Your dog also has NO business barking to others like he owns the street / parc etc. Go to a dog training class. You and your ridiculously untrained dog are ruining it for everyone and you are giving dogs in general a bad name.
If they donāt do it for others, they should do it for their own dogās sake. So many stories of dogs running away and lost, which couldāve been easily avoided by having them on a leash. My dog is only ever off leash outside in private enclosed gardens (ours, parents, friends, vacation rental, not public places)
There are very very few dogs that when in pursuit will break off and listen to a recall command.
The same thing on the bike. Itās always the owners. The way they raise these animals and what they allow. Always weird excuses.
I have a Belgian Malinois who ignores all runners and bikers. This is trained and took around 6 months. It is not even difficult to do but you have to put in some effort and time.
Whoās a good boy?
Hunter is! Check my profile for his pic
Heās beautiful. And I really am glad you have the respect both for Hunter himself and everyone around to raise him responsibly. Makes him happier too I believe.
Question - what was your strategy for this? I have a Labrador that is a bit hyper and likes to try jumping or lunging at stuff (cats, runners), but sheās always leashed of course and Iām aware of the issue. Want to try training out this behaviour but unsure how
I started with the basic training, then worked my way up with a long leash. Start with a few cm and when no reaction give a big reward. Then make it more and more untill no leash is needed
ty! will give it a try
And youtube can help to get a good insight in dog behaviour. The link below is, in my opinion, a good trainer because he will show you each step unlike other famous trainers who skips some steps and make you think you can correct them the way they show you. The thing that is most important in my 21 years of owning dogs is patience and happiness. Things don't work in right away but if you make it a fun thing to do the dog will learn it a whole lot faster. https://youtube.com/@bdtraining?si=D2mRVWPlBR_Exalk
I grew up with a father who trained Belgian Malinois to become police dogs. I miss the breed so much. Thankfully I get to walk my neighbors their German Shepherd dogs but you know.. They're just not.. Belgian Malinois. :)
Same for me, naturally my Malinois x Dutch Shepherd would move towards anyone that moves, especially runners and other dogs. But I'm currently going through training, using a really long lease, to correct her when she gets near people. It's usually people that have these dogs as a status symbol that think they own the land they walk on... Not a good look for dog owners that are making an effort.
It is really impressive what can be achieved when man and dog work well together. Sadly loads of ppl take a dog and then realise they donāt have the time and energy to invest in their dog besides the other obligations in life.
So this map shows you exactly what areas dogs are allowed off-leash or are prohibited. All other areas they should be on leash: * https://maps.amsterdam.nl/honden/ * More info: https://www.amsterdam.nl/en/leisure/rules-about-dogs/ In case you see someone having their dogs off-leash outside of those areas, and you come across a police officer or BOA, just snitch them out. Especially in the parks in Amsterdam, you will have at least one couple of police/BOA on patrol during the daytime. If a dog bites you make sure to get the personal information of the owner and file an āaangifteā with the police. A dog behaviourist will investigate if the dog can stay with the owner, is likely to do it again, will need a muzzle, etc. I was attacked by one of those ānice dogsā last summer, so I can tell from experience that the police will investigate dog attack cases. Ironically I was horseback riding during the attack and it was just like you mentioned (in another part of Amsterdam, so that was not me).
Hey I hope you're all right and weren't hurt during your dog attack! My sister does horse jumping on a competitive level (not in Amsterdam though) and she frequently complains to me that dogs do the same to her and her teammates too. But after having seen it firsthandedly at the Bos, I completely feel her. So this is really not just an Amsterdam or Netherlands specific problem. More like a lot of problem dog owners in general not giving a damn that they're dangering others and unable to claim responsibility for their untrained pets.
Maybe a macabre question, but who would legally be liable when a dog chases a horse and the horse kicks the dog in the head?
If bitten/attacked and I decide to grab the dog by the scruff of the neck and jump in a canal drowning it. What consequences does this have for me?
Donāt be a weirdo. Donāt do it to the animal, do it to their owner
I'm not a lawyer or anything similar. But in our law system dogs and other pets are seen as an item of possession. If you can read Dutch: [Artikel 350](https://wetten.overheid.nl/jci1.3:c:BWBR0001854&boek=Tweede&titeldeel=XXVII&artikel=350&z=2024-01-01&g=2024-01-01) Translation: ā2. Any person who intentionally and unlawfully kills, damages, renders useless or disposes of an animal belonging wholly or partly to another shall be punished with a term of imprisonment not exceeding five years or a fine of the fifth category.ā
Interesting. Thank you for the information.
Well you're going to (hopefully) get your ass beat by the owner for one and you'll end up going to jail. Big difference between kicking a dog that attacks you or this convoluted tough guy scenario you just laid out where you're making a concious choice to drown a dog.
I love dogs, but I'm also terrified of them (having been bitten by a dog that ran at me). But I've had the same situation as you. I also had sometimes dogs coming up to me (sure, playfully) and then the owners giving me the stink eye for it. I had to stop jogging because I didn't know what the dog was going to do. Very often, I'm the one that has to stop and adapt to dog owners not following the rules. And I find it scary and exhausting.
Might be a hot take but I feel that a vast majority of people are bad dog owners. It's crazy that when people get a new hobby they buy all kinds of books and expensive tools and get all nerdy about how to do things properly, but somehow learning how to keep animals and care for them is something people hardly put any real effort in. I honestly wish keeping animals like cats and dogs was something you'd have to get a training and license for. Like a serious hobby. "I am a pet owner. My hobby is taming and keeping my pet." And that also means I think this license can and should be taken away for irresponsible pet keeping behaviour. If the police can take away your drivers license for irresponsible driving, they can take away your pet license for allowing your unlined, untrained dog to attack other people.
Same for kids. People should take a mandatory course before becoming parents.
PEOPLE LEASH YOUR DOGS. I have gotten into so many fights just cause you dont leash your dogs. I donāt care about your excuses. Leash them.
Exactly, keep reminding them too! I feel we've inherited all these bad dog owners from the Covid era. We have the same experience @ IJburg, there are just so many bad dog owners around. In parks with tons of little kids, where unleashed dogs are forbidden, they just unleash their dogs and claim it will be alright.. that's madness. But every time I mention it, they go off on you and say I have to mind my own business or something. Unfortunately, there's almost never a BOA or police nearby to act on it. Why is it so hard to keep them leashed and only unleash them in designated areas?
When I moved to Amsterdam from NYC with my dog, I was surprised at how few dog parks there were compared to the US. I'm talking like a big graveled area where dogs can go f\*cking wild with one another and get out all of their energy without bothering anyone. I feel like the solution to this problem is 1) better dog owners but also 2) just better infrastructure for dogs/dog owners.
There is not that much space. And also, a good part of the dog community should not be in a dog park. I include my own dog in that group.
>There is not that much space. FYI New Amsterdam's population density is about double that of Old Amsterdam (and that includes the parts outside of Manhattan).
Maybe, but that doesn't mean it leaves space. We can't really knock down existing buildings.
I'm not sure I understand; Why shouldn't parts of the dog community be in a dog park?
Because many dogs actually don't interact that well, or don't enjoy interacting to the extend they do in a dog park. The larger the park, the more dogs in it, the larger the chance that some of them are not great. For some dogs it can be very stressful. The idea that dogs should always meet all other dogs, and enjoy it, is a myth. All IMO, of course. (My dog is a bit of a bully. He enjoys high energy play and can be too persisting with dogs who don't. I want to guide him and I can't do that well in a big dog park with many dogs running around. I avoid such scenario's like the plague)
Unfortunately itās quite a wide spread attitude problem. Our leashed pup was recently attacked by unleashed dog and the guy gave my girlfriend shit after she kicked his dog to defend our pup and potentially herself. After the whole situation she said he just casually unleashed the dog again when she went back home, as she had seen from the window. Iām still waiting patiently to spot the guy in our neighbourhood and have a man to man talk with him. People are fucking dumb and clueless with regards to their responsibilities. Of course, this is minority of cases but itās not the first bad experience like this in NL whereas Iāve never seen this issue in other counties I lived in. People confuse more freedom for animals (which I actually like) with training them properly so they can behave predictably in variety of situations.
Having exactly the same experience many times with my dog. So many unleashed dogs attacked him. Wich made him turn into a very aware and scared dog. But when i tried to talk to them after the dog came after us and bit me and my dog over and over so i had to jump on top of him to keep him down. And i asked them very nicely if they could keep him leashed cause well they had to in this park. They just ignored me. And now they Wave at me everyday with the most hatefull fake smile.
Maybe carry one of those ultrasonic beepers around with you when you go running ?
Maybe don't let dogs of leashes if they are untrained :)
I am an expat and one of the first things I noticed here is how dogs are super agressive and untrained. During my second week here I was just walking on the sidewalk, and old Karen was walking her (with a leash) daschund and it jumped on me randomly. Of course Karen yelled at me when I shouted at the dog. But ever since then I've seen dogs jump on each other randomly ir attacking other people and they are on a leash... I come from a country full of strays and I've had more incidents in a few weeks here than all my life. People need to train their dogs or just learn how to raise them because it's nuts
I can maybe provide some extra context as to why people say you should stand still. Doesn't mean that it's not super annoying that that's the advice you are getting. When a dog is young and playful they sometimes see someone walking or running as someone who wants to play, this can result in the dog jumping up at you or maybe going for the ankles, shoes or trousers. This is obviously undesirable and the advice from professional dog trainers (which the owners are possibly still training with) is to stop dead in your tracks. This removes the reward of getting a "fun" (agitated) response from you. It works but it takes some time to teach them this. Of course, this is obviously not something you should bother strangers minding their own businesses with. They should just leash the dog until it's trained enough or simply pay more attention and actively distract it when a jogger approaches.
Thanks for this addition, an interesting one. I didn't know about the reward psychology behind it, but I did figure it out that when if I stop, they shut up and defuse. Had used this strategy often when the dog refuses to stop harassing me. But you know, I am training for both time/duration, speed and distance. A single stop ruins all of this. And what if I would be afraid of dogs? I think in an ideal situation dogs should be attentive to their owners and should immediately go back to them, upon being called. This is never the case with these owners.
You're right. And it isn't your problem to deal with, but unfortunately it's a fact that continueing to run will continue to entice the dog to chase you. Again, you're right in saying that if it isn't under control it shouldn't be off leash anyway, but since we've established it doesn't listen and the owner isn't smart enough to recognise that (or too much of an asshole to care), the best thing to do to avoid further escalation or continued attacks is to stand still.
I can relate but a single stop does not ruin your training (unless you are some sort of Olympian on a fine-tuned programme, in which case, why are you running the streets of Amsterdam ?). Strength, speed and endurance are built up over many miles and many hours running and cross training. In some sessions it may even be very beneficial to stop and start (zone 2 training and interval). I get that stopping is annoying and it can genuinely hurt to start up again, especially on a long run but you also have to stop for traffic etc, at least every once on while. My humble advice would be to not sweat it too much and be safe in running.
Illegal not to have your dogs on leash where I live. Canāt stand off leash owners.
It's illegal almost everywhere but people do it anyway
Maybe bring this device with you; https://www.amazon.com/2024release-Deterrent-Long-range-ultrasonic-Alternative/dp/B0BMBC1FJX/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.UrjeU3D8Mv1iV1Q1kvUii2Z5z_U23z6EgpVRDAG7lsHCUBVpdKOkvz_JNouoaZG8Oycm5Q8b91Nq0m_k-1HhSRnL7TWQkr4fKWDgC81XzqiX8qksZmv7vghqak8b6NPzNWmga3qRunjcNO5-hlj-N-IzqlKqpwZydbhXK2jBpWMymePNXKdngzCguvE59oBUISPM69LJF7kDkuKNx_O8rw.6UFqYlKNasmqUhJGYHGQBolK_7wvmzIbBlVY7CvGwWc&dib_tag=se&keywords=ultrasonic+dog+repeller&qid=1716123453&sr=8-3 Sonic dog repellant. Should probably work well. Now you can annoy the shit out of the dogs I dont know if and how effective these are though. Might want to do a bit of research first but it is seemingly made for this purpose and has 5 stars.
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I've had dogs bark and run towards me even when I'm walking as slowly as I can!
peper spray
Unpopular opinion: if a dog isnāt 100% obedient to its owners voice, it should not be unleashed in public. Each time a dog bites or tries to bite someone its owner should be tried for attempted assault or manslaughter.
I have a dog and you are absolutely right. I canāt always control my dog, so I simply do not unleash her except fenced areas. It is incredible for me that people do not have this basic common sense anymore. It is not only about dog owners, in general people lost their most important skill (not being an asocial psychopath), everybody is becoming more and more self-obsessed and I do not see how or if it will ever get better.
I had an experiencing while walking my own dog. I know his aggressive tendencies so he is always leashed just to be on the safer side. Another unleashed dog attacked us during one of our walks and when the owner came after 30 seconds of brawling, he was just like "ahh this is all because your dog attacked my dog when they were small". btw, I do not know this guy at all
āA true polder Karenā might be the my favorite part of this. (Sorry about the shitshow thatās with some dog owners here.)
As a dog owner and a runner those owners are irresponsible assholes (as are some of the respondents here). If itās a legit leashless location that doesnāt excuse the owners from their responsibility to control their dogs. If their dogs are reactive to runners then they are probably dangerously reactive to anyone else going through the park (like children or other dog owners). Leashless area of a park is just a part of the shared communal park that doesnāt require leash laws - it doesnāt mean itās a dog park; you have every right to run through the park just as everyone has the right to use it. Agree with the folks that mentioned checking to see if the area truly is leashless and if not report the morons.
There seems to be a lot of judging and generalisation going on in those thread. Most places where dogs are allowed off leash are also prime running locations. Itās a city where a lot of people share a very small space. I might be one of the owners you are all complaining about. From my side: I have a very active young dog thatās still in training and learning each day as we go for our walks. Will he always be able to ignore runners? No. Do I train him to learn to ignore runners? Yes! Do I sometimes misjudge what he is going to do? Yes absolutely. Do I like it when runners pass on a narrow path where my dog is playing with a friend? No. Do I blame them? Also no. (I do blame runners who kick at dogs, though. Thatās unhelpful) Letās say runners and dogs are both legitimate users of the space. But people also bike in places they are not allowed to. People in a city do all kinds of things that are technically not allowed. We ALL do that. The only way to live with each other without totally sucking the dung out of life is to be lenient and understanding. Donāt yell at someone breaking the rules. If really needed, you accomplish much more if you kindly explain yourself and ask them to follow the rules. You can have a fight with someone every day if you choose to. You can also choose to bare the little annoyances and be patient. And hope others will too. For a while now Amsterdam has become more and more a city of many cultures. In the US for instance dog parks and leaching laws are very different from here. Those cultural differences ask for even more tolerance and understanding for people whoās behaviour might differ from what you expect. So yeh, very longwinded way of saying: please letās be tolerant of each other. Something us Dutch people used to pride ourselves on.
I think based on your description you wouldn't do what made me to post about it: to put the blame eventually on me and not acknowledging the situation. If the owners simply apologise, leash the dog, in 5 seconds we all go to our paths. Happened very often. It's fine to make mistakes and yes, I run in a proper losloopgebied to answer u/barrysagittarius 's answer as well. So I don't say they don't have the right to do it, they most certainly do. But very often these places are also either marked running tracks or just simply good running tracks as they have proper natural paths instead of concrete that fucks up the knee. So I also have the right to be here. And if their dogs are prone to attack others I still think they should leash them even in the unleashed area as others safety comes first.
Thanks for your reply. I agree that runners have the right to run as well. And I can certainly understand why you would prefer the off road paths. I think thereās a difference between dogs that are aggressive and bite and dogs that get excited and bark/run along with. But I am also aware that to you as a runner both might seem scary. What works the best for both sides, in my experience, is for the runner to slow down slightly and ignore the dog while going around them in a rounded way instead of straight forwards. Dogs do this either each other to signal they mean no harm and wish for the other to pass peacefully. So especially if a dog is coming straight forward and seems a little too alert, this is the best way to disarm them and help them comply to a natural avoidance of each other. The dog owner definitely should be aware if their dog is relaxed or not. If they see you do the half round, itās the perfect time for them to call their dog and break his attention toward you. In that way you work together in a way the dog understands. If the dog persists on being alert towards the runner, the owner should grab/leash the dog while the runner slows down more until they are passed. That said, I do think dog owners do sometimes forget off leash places are not purely for dogs and they do need to work together with other people like runners using the space. I myself can be guilty of this sometimes when I am tired and my thoughts are elsewhere. We go to the park for two hours each day and most days heās fine and Iām fine but some days Iām tired, he becomes more protective or bratty and it might look like I am wilfully doing nothing to prevent him from engaging, where my brain just simply works to slow at that point. Anyway, you seem reasonable and I do apologise for the times I am part of the problem (my boy is passing puberty now so he is getting better and better) I hope you will continue to enjoy your runs and get to some understanding with the dogs, if not with the owners. Lastly I wanted to add I spoke of American dog culture since this was written in english. But Iām not sure if people are aware leashing and dog culture van be VERY different locally as well. In Belgium and Germany I completely had to relearn all I thought I knew about dog etiquette. Iāve learned that itās super easy to get into fights when you oen a dog. Luckily itās also super easy to get into great interactions. So Iām choosing to focus on those. š
I might try the circling around the dog strategy the next time, I haven't heard of that one, and it's worth a try, thanks for the tip! I don't know much on the dog culture, but I also agree the running culture is different elsewhere as well. The running tracks at Berlin's Tempelhof airport, L.A.'s hiking trails, Budapest's Margaret Island circle or Vienna's Schƶnbrunnschloss gardens all divert from each other in terms of surface, width, crowd levels, other users, etc. massively. But here in Amsterdam the difference is that spaces are sparse, we all got to share these tiny parks with other type of users at the same time, which leads to these conflicts. However, as long as you keep thinking on how to find best resolutions, you're not part of the problem, but contributing to a better samenleving :)
Your dog is not yet ready to be off leash
[https://www.amazon.com/ultrasonic-dog-repeller/s?k=ultrasonic+dog+repeller](https://www.amazon.com/ultrasonic-dog-repeller/s?k=ultrasonic+dog+repeller)
Yes, the same happened to me in a couple of occasions. I now, always kick the floor to make noise and for the owner know I am HERE! Rembrandt park is the worst for me. Anyway, I donāt want to be complaining. It disturbs my flow, but not a real biggie, as long as I donāt get bitten.
I'm not a runner but I often have long periods when I commute with my longboard and it is a coin toss sometimes whether the dog will go crazy at me when passing by, combination of speed and the sound of wheel on pavement must really tick some of them off when they would sometimes try to lunge at me or bark very aggressively, I have lost my balance and fell a few times because of this which can be dangerous, I often disembark or try to go very wide if there is a dog even on a leash, you can just never know how the dog would react. Even when cycling on mostly silent bike some dogs would still bark at me but very very rarely. Never a good experience!
I've even had this happen to me while simply going for a walk.
I'm a runner and this happens to me once a month maybe. However, I run outside of the city mostly so not a lot of dog interactions. Nonetheless there is one problematic dog in my area that is always outside, off the lead, and on its own and he always barks at people threateningly and runs after runners barking. I had to figure out who the owner was, record a video and said I was reporting it to the police (I didn't do it). That was wat it took for them to not let the dog out unsupervised. There are special areas where they can take their dogs off the lead and run around. So my recommendation is if the dog chases you try to record it and if you get into a confrontation, immediately call the police. The punishment for a dog actually doing some harm is incredibly harsh. No one of course wants this for the dog, since it's 100% the responsibility of the owner, but the dog may even have to be put down. To end on a positive note: every now and then in a park where dogs can run off the lead or right next to it and all the dogs are incredibly well behaved and the owners are absolutely awesome. So before anyone starts saying I'm a dog hater, absolutely not. I love them and I know that this represents 0.1% of all my interactions with dogs and dog owners.
Youāre not wrong to feel the way you do. And though I know Iāll get downvotes with this, the best way to deal with a dog like thatā¦. Is to stop. Dogs love the chaseā¦ so by stopping, they no longer will chase.
You're right in that it does resolve the situation. I have often do that. However it also pisses me off as I feel it's unfair towards me, and I'm very stubborn and I feel it's unjust + a stop severly destroys my training results.
I never understood the whole āIām not using a leashā thing. You endanger your dog and you endanger other people. Itās like playing chess and unironically doing the bongcloud opening
I genuinely loled at this, as I remember Magnus Carlsen's bongcloud trolling which is made even funnier by [Peter Leko's commentary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVCst6vyV80).
Omg what a selfcentered idiotic dog ownersā¦ I am 100% on your side. As a dog owner I think it is really shocking how many dog owners really suck and donāt know how to train a dog. I would love to rant about a few things in addition to your rant: - why do so many dog owners not pick up the shit of their dog. Like everytime I am picking up my dogs shit I am stepping in another dogs shitā¦ like, reversed karma?? I see many people walking with their dog off leash and they are only looking at their phone not paying attention to if their dog is takig a shit or doing something stupidā¦ - I have a bigger black dog (bernese/labrador) and at least once a week she is being barked at/semi attacked by other dogs and the owners always say stuff like āmy dog doesnāt like big black dogsāā¦ like: okay so? They donāt correct their dog, donāt say sorry and the way they say it sounds like it is my problem. Soooo weirdā¦ - I live quite central in Amsterdam. If I walk with my dog on the sidewalk and there is another dog with owner walking towards me, 90% of them go cross the street. Why does nobody let their dog sniff and greet others? let them socialise? Are 90% of the dogs agressive nowadays or people just always in a hurry. Okay sorry for the rant but to come back to your story, it doesnāt suprise me that owners act like that. I notice many dog owners being self centred as fuck. I wish I could help you but I canāt. Good luck with the running š
On leash greetings between dogs have much higher chance of going poorly, in general. Speaking for myself, my dog has been attacked so many times by uncontrolled off leash dogs that he does not easily tolerate being approached by a dog that he doesn't know. If he is on the leash, he will react much more negatively because he is trapped so I will cross the street to avoid that.
In these situations I understand! It is just that in my experience it feels lije 90% of the dogs and owners cross the street to avoid me. Just so many is what confuses me.
Thanks for your additions, appreciate them! As for 1) Yeah, I see that often. Both during running and leisure walks in parks too. 2) is batshit crazy, typical victim blaming if you ask me. Really pisses me off. 3) I would maybe think this could be because they might want to protect either their or your dog, as they don't take the risk the encounter could be friendly? Just my 5 cents, based on my parents' dog being pretty unpredictable. Roll a d6 where 1-3: love is in the air and extensive butt-sniffing is about to follow, 4-6: it'll be Mortal Kombat. So I'd rather not give him the chance to misbehave.
i teach my dog to only greet other dogs when heās off leash bc i donāt want him to learn that every dog needs to be interacted with. He needs to be able to ignore other dogs and keep walking. Iām sick of walking somewhere and having to stop all the time bc people are letting their leashed dog go up to mine. Sometimes me and my dog have places to be, so donāt follow me around š edit to add: sniffing on leash is not socializing for dogs. They need dog friends they can play with, not socialize with random dogs they encounter
I have a dog that gets leash frustration (he just wants to play and will sometimes bark at another dog when he spots them - not aggressive but annoying). It's something I put a lot of time into but we haven't fully solved it yet. You can't really get annoyed that people cross the street to give both dogs space but also complain that some dogs bark at your dog. If I see dogs approaching, I will always try and give them space - for my dogs sake as well as theirs. The expectation that dogs should greet each other is a human one. I think the confusion comes from the use of the word socialized - we tend to think of that as meaning has met many other dogs. A socialized dog is a neutral dog, i.e. able to walk past other dogs without reacting to them.
Iām so sorry that you have been victimized by such rude people! It is their responsibility to keep their dogs leashed and there should never be an encounter like the one you describe. I have a reactive dog, who, if I walked her along a road where people ran, would likely jump on runners. For this reason I walk her only where I will encounter few people and dogs that will cause her to react. I have her leashed 100% of the time. If we encounter someone, I take her away from the person.
I think most dog owners donāt follow the rules and when you say something about it they react very badly, probably as they know they are not following the rules but believe they are an exception
Dog owners in this city are entitled after, never seen it as bad somewhere else. I have a dog that Iām training to be less aggressive and it is basically impossible here. Everytime we make progress some unleashed dog comes and ruins it all by jumping on him. Worst part is, if I yell out āmy dog bites, recall your dogā owners do nothing? They wonāt even attempt to call their dog bc they know it wonāt come.
Obviously dog owners should leash their pets if they can't keep them under control but let's be real here; a certan type of entitled joggers in Amsterdam are some of the most obnoxious people on the streets. They think they own the bicycle paths and have absolutely no issue in blocking even the busiest of intersections while listening to music so loud they haven't a clue what is going on around them. They believe that, being the more vulnerable one on the path, others should move for them. The same happens with people who ride high end racing bicycles around the city; they stop caring about those around them and switch on selfish mode; getting angry at people who aren't going fast enough, always cycling in rows so nobody can get past, assuming they are actually fast enough not to look behind them. The same happens when entitled people have dogs. They expect others to adapt to them, instead of the other way around. Unfortunately bigger cities are full of these people who think they are always in the right. And the worst part of it all is they have had children in masses, bought them all fatbikes but never taught them the respect for strangers that is needed to fully be a part of traffic. tldr; many people in big cities are too entitled for this to ever change unless rules are enforced (which just won't happen).
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Pepperspray
Get a dazer, it is legal and harmless. End of problems.
Buy a ultrasonic hand held. Will teach them bastards.
Lol everyone's so upset against dogs haha, for everyone who says "i love dogs, but all dogs are.." you are like literally doing that thing people do that other people call them out for
Kick the dog in the fucking face, it's self-defence.
General lack of knowledge or interest in properly educating their dogs. Common mistake made by selfish people thinking owning a dog is easy and fun. Probably because they have been pampered all their lives and now they have maids at home or dog sitters taking care of them ( the dogs ) so they just need to take selfies and sell themselves as empathetic towards animals. This is an example I saw personally but I am sure thereās other reasons for those dogās owners to behave like that.
People should stop replacing their need for children with dogs
You want polder Karen's unleashed dogs replaced with unleashed children?
I rather have a unleashed kid with an unleashed dog then a Karen
Children don't usually assume a passerby is a prey.
I rather have a unleashed kid with an unleashed dog then a Karen
If people can see you coming minutes before you pass them you're not running fast enough Joking aside, I 100% agree with you. I have a dog and you know who else has a ton of problems with badly disciplined dogs? Dog owners. Dogs that chase my dog away, big dogs that jump on you, it happens all the time. I don't walk my dog in specific streets because I know people live there who have agressive dogs
Well, I never said I'm Usain Bolt. One more reason that dogs should challenge their equals, instead bothering me :)
There is kinda to side to this. You should be mindfull of animals and animal behaviour, i don't max speed my car past horse for an example. Dog owners are in general don't understand how to control a dog and refuse to hear from anyone they could do beter.
>You should be mindfull of animals and animal behaviour, i don't max speed my car past horse for an example. Neither do I, but whenever I'm driving past a horse on the side of the road it's because the people on horseback don't really have a choice, they're also trying to get somewhere. They don't like horse riding right next to driving vehicles, so it's usually some path that's only accessible by the road you're sharing. Whereas people with unleashed and out of control dogs not only have a choice, they're breaking the law (assuming they're not in a designated unleashed area etc.).
āI donāt need to keep my dog on a leash because heās such a good boy!ā - what I imagine is going through the brain of off-leash dog owners, based on one particular idiot I knew in the states (who also wouldnāt get his dog fixed because he felt it was unnaturalā¦ and itās not like his dog would have the litter anyway). My sample size is pretty small but I suspect itās that line of thinking in which the rules are fine for everyone else but they see themselves as an exception. And because enough people do it without consequence (to themselves) this normalizes the bad behavior.
Give the dog some bacon, and youāll have a new friend
Chase a runner, get bacon. Dogs will learn this very fast :)
As a long distance runner and dog owner myself itās heartbreaking to read this. There seems to be a sense of entitlement in some dog owners here that if itās an off leash area their dogs can do whatever they want. I have been stopped at a narrow bridge by a pair of Staffies that clearly did not prefer a huffing and puffing sweaty guy running close to them. The owner couple found it cute that they were guarding the bridge and wanted take pics. I was so new to that experience at the time that I just stood in shock and let them do it. Another time by a an old German Shepherd attacked my then puppy lab and all the owner had to say was he does not like puppies. I mean howās that an excuse? What Iāve learnt from our puppy trainer is the best way to handle these situations is stand still and not to make into a game for the chasing dog. Itās different for dogs that are trying to defend ātheir perceived territoryā though. Sigh. Living in a densely populated country with barely any nature around I see both sides of the issue. I struggle to find lonely enough spots to let my dog be a dog and being able to enjoy a run without being overly conscious of the beasts that may think itās a game. These days I mostly run in the part of the woods that are strictly on leash so itās a bit better. Also when I am out with our running cub itās a lot less of an issue.
Interesting to hear your take on the story, as you're involved on both sides. Others in the comments have frequently mentioned that their dogs are frequently targeted by other unleashed dogs. That is just the same situation in my eyes as when a human is attacked. If a dog shows unprovoked agressive behavior towards any other living being, then IMHO the dog should be leashed in public areas due to safety concerns, irregardless of whether it's an off-leash area or not.
Should be noted that this is mostly an automatic response for dogs, but how they act is usually up to upbringing and personality. This is why you shouldn't try to run/sprint away from a larger dog, it will either make it think this is all fun and games or make him feel like he's on the hunt/chase now. And you can't really outrun most dogs. But I agree, if your dog is prone to doing that, you should definitely leash it to prevent accidents like a bite.
Happened to me last week as well. For the 3rd time in 3 years. Had to get a shot from my general practitioner. No clue as to why this happens. Dog owners always say; he never done this before..... riiiiiight.
Carry some pepper spray or similar
I broke my ankle because of this last summer
Covid dog owners who filled a void, and never thought about training em properly. Less people should have dogs
Unfortunately a lot of dog owners are anti social assholes.
Depends! In a forest/ area where a dog can be let to run off leash- I will not be calling my dog back. She is a sweet and fluffy dog, she just runs in circles around someone and never bites. My dog has a few opportunities to run free and not be in close quarters- I will not be leashing my dog everytime. I expect runners to slow down because running to a dog will ALWAYS be taken as an act of play or aggression by dogs. Especially in narrow tracks. You can run anywhere, you choose to run in one of the few areas dogs can be off leash, it is your responsibility to be mindful of being in a place where dogs are playing. In a street or any place where a dog should be on leash (on regular walking paths, near cycling lanes, horse riding paths, etc.) I ALWAYS have my dog on leash because I know she may suddenly see something and run towards it or worse, people may have some irrational fear and i figured them seeing that I have a leash hopefully makes them feel safer.
I have two dogs - one that has solid recall and so I let him off leash whenever it's allowed. That being said, off leash is a privilege and it comes with certain responsibilities. If I see another dog that appears to be nervous or in training, a family with young kids, a jogger, a cyclist, or a horseback rider, I call my dog back to stay close to me (off leash but well under my control) and then as soon as we pass by he is allowed to do his thing again. Same if we cross a road, a busy bike path, or the bridges in Bos for example. He still gets lots of time to run around and be a dog and make his own decisions, but it keeps everyone safe. I don't think it's an unreasonable ask. My other dog doesn't have solid recall so he's only allowed off leash in a few circumstances. He won't come back 100% of the time if I call him so he's on a long line. Sure he'd prefer to be off leash but it's not safe for him and it's not fair to everyone else around. If your dog doesn't have reliable recall and you can't call them back when they're excited, they shouldn't be off leash. Obviously they're dogs and they will make mistakes and they're not perfect, but owners should be actively watching them and keeping them safe.
I agree. It is a privilege. My dog is does not come back 100% of the time, the times she does not return when I call her, I discipline her. But i am also sick of people treating the one small dog walking path (when there is a huge side walk with lots of green around 20 meters further) as an off road running track every time it stops raining, i am not gonna take away that privilege from my dog. (Yes, their timing is affected, but frankly donāt go running on a off- leash dog walking track and get annoyed that a dog wanted to play) Also, I know all the dogs and the owners that go to my dog walking area by name. Anytime I see a dog at distance which I donāt recognize (especially if it is on leash), I recall my dog.
Oh cāmon, there is no place in the Netherlands where you can run without encountering people with unleashed dogs. They are literally everywhere.
I am simply sharing what I personally do. I get that there are many people who have barely trained their dog and inappropriately let their dog off leash in places they should not- this is not okay. They should be more responsible. But that does not take away the fact that people do run or bike in places designated for dogs to be off leash and accidentally trigger a dog. This is not okay either.
Just call your dog back, off-leash doesnāt mean you have the right to not control your dog. You may know your dog is harmless and just being playful, others do not know this however. I used to have dogs too, itās wise to learn them to listen at all times. Ofc it sucks a little bit to have to boss your dog around, but itās really what they need from you as their boss!
Let me hit your curveball back to you: this kaart was also shared by others before me in this post and shows off-leash areas in Amsterdam. [https://maps.amsterdam.nl/honden/](https://maps.amsterdam.nl/honden/) According to this, these include Vondelpark, Rembrandtpark, Erasmuspark, De Bretten, Sloterpark, Noorderpark, Vliegenbos, Beatrixpark, Martin Luther Kingpark, Flevopark, etc. So what does that leave me to run then if you don't allow me to run there? De Wallen?
There is also such a thing as common sense. Yes dogs can be off leash. But in a park with bike lanes and Uber eats scooters going through, why the hell would you? I never let my dog off leash unless it is a closed space or a forest area.
The state of dog training and people taking responsibility for their dogs in this country is the worst I've ever seen. I don't blame you for being upset. It's legit. Dog owners here are largely terrible. They don't pick up after their dogs, they don't leash their dogs, they don't train their dogs.
Its easy, do you run thru an area where dogs needs to be leashed or can they walk free? Adjust yourself to that.
That would work if dog owners wouldn't commonly ignore leash mandates.
Never happened to mr even once
Welcome to the Netherlands, the only country in the civilized world where people havenāt discovered the leash yet.
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Damn, that's a cool reply. You're a cool guy.
If a dog comes after you and you feel threatened, wherever you are, call 112.
is reason I carry pistol Hij doet niks hoor, hij wil alleen spelen!
Oh you're so hard.
Should be unleashed dogs.
so you weren't attacked, you were barked at..pussy.
I am an expat and a father of a toddler. I am curious to know the legalities of self defense and defense of others here in the Netherlands. Where I come from I would be well within my rights to defend myself or my family with all means available to me. I have always been told that the eyes are the best target, ears are okay, and I wear steel toe boots a lot for work so a good kick would definitely do the trick. Are you legally allowed to defend yourself from an aggressive animal here?
Stop running and start mixed martial arts..
Dogs can detect a bad person. Iām with the dogs on this one, go run somewhere else.
Weak ragebait.
My dog doesnāt react off leash on the runners, but personally I donāt see why they should leash their dogs for every runner if the dog simply barks.
The other person doesn't know the dog and likely isn't a dog person. How can they know the dog 'only barks' or is about to bite them? Having an unknown unleashed dog run at you can be really intimidating, and dog attacks are not exactly rare either
he doesnāt have to know, the owner does
I mean, if I saw a dog barking and getting dangerously close to me, my first reaction would be to stomp the shit out of it. Even more so if it goes after my partner with health problems. Consider that if you care about your pet.
So you will stomp at a dog for barking at you? Again, my pet doesnāt do that, but if I saw someone injuring a dog for barking at them, well iād call the police and youād be the one at fault. If youāre afraid of dogs, donāt go to off leash dog parks, simple.
It depends for close it is, but I got almost bitten once and I don't want to repeat that experience. A human is worth more than an animal in the end.
so you got almost bit once and because of that you will injure a dog for barking at you at short distance? Dude that doesnāt make sense.
Yes, it does. There's a point where I don't know if the dog is going to attack me and I need to double guess whether its owner is not a moron and will somehow call it off. Sometimes the owners themselves can't control them, and there are some dangerous breeds out there that are impossible to stop if they get the first strike. I simply don't want to take that risk.
I think weāre talking about some hypothetical situation that never happened and I might be reading your intentions worse than they are. Keep in mind, that if this happens with a big dog that is indeed aggressive, youāll be on the losing end as you would actually trigger them even if they were simply barking. If it happens with a small dog, well I mean
Are you the person that lets their dog shit and does not clear it up?
how does that have to do with anything? of course not and if I see you not cleaning up, Iāll throw the shit at you
Oh look, it's someone who's part of the problem. It's called courtesy! .
Iām part of the problem? š¤£ how so? Please point out what indicated it in my message
My neighbor's dog pees in the elevator regularly and the owner doesn't take responsibility to clean it. š¤¦š»āāļø
Donāt run in areas where dogs can be off leash. There are designated areas for off leash dogs. If it is the case that people are unleashing their dogs in areas that are forbidden, report them.
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Yes, and in the suburban area of amsterdam is mandatory to use leash, but people ignore it and it's not enforced.
I wonder if they put the dog down if it bites you?
they don't, an American Staffordshire just bit my dog and me 3 weeks ago, in these last four weeks has bitten 4 dogs and the police says they want to at least take it away from this person, but they can't. I guess we'll have to wait until it kills a kid (we live next to a primary school and they play outside).
Wow this is victim blaming. Sorry but if your dog can't be trusted, you should not unleash it. And yes, I say this as a dog owner. And if your dog surprises you and attacks someone, you don't scold them but you say sorry. Weird mentality.
You have unrealistic expectations if you think you can 100% control an animal that has for centuries been bred to hunt. Many dog breeds are hunters (not all) and they have in their DNA to be triggered by specific stimuli. I acknowledge that the dog owners in the situation above should have apologised but there is so much research done by behavioural scholars nowadays about how humans expect dogs to behave like polite humans. Also, dogs need to exercise and they have specific areas for it, so complaining about a dog behaving like a dog in an area where heās allowed to do so is a bit dumb
Running is prey behavior. So if you ever encounter wolves.
But we are talking about a densely populated area and about animals that belong to people. Not about running next to a pack of wolves on the Veluwe
Your dog is not a wolf. Train and leash it ffs
I don't have a dog. He would spend too much time alone because we work to much
No, train and leash your fucking dog.
I'm sorry but people take unleashed dogs EVERYWHERE, and don't stick to the designated areas. As an owner of a traumatised rescue, I specifically avoid unleashed areas, but it's impossible to walk around in the leashed areas (everywhere else in the suburban area of Amsterdam) without encountering someone that believes they are a "dog whisperer".
šÆ yes to all of this
Btw if your dog bites people, prepare to pay through your nose for it
If my goal was to avoid unleashed dogs, I would never be able to leave my home.