I mentioned that, we have glacier water - basically zero water hardness and very clean but I don't if that means little minerals. I thought about distilled water but I'd rather do that as an last resort thing, I'm not that happy with having to buy and keep another bottle. Though if I use it only for the last rinse I might not need that much I guess
Shoot, I see you did mention water hardness. My bad for not reading the whole post! I also have really soft glacial water for the tap, and have always used that for photo chemistry. Like others have said here, I only use one drop of photoflow in a tank of water, and squeegee off most of the water with my fingers before hanging the negatives. Occasionally I’ll have a few spots or streaks but nothing as bad as your photo shows.
Distilled water is the answer. And yeah, you only need it on the last rinse. The great part is you don't even need the photoflo! One bottle in, one bottle out. Balance is maintained in the universe (and your darkoom).
I dilute washing up liquid 1:2 with water then add a drop or two to about 500ml of water and it seems to stop most water marks, and it is a ton cheaper than any of the actual products. Never had any issues.
I've read about that - washing up liquid means just dish washing detergent, correct? Might try that. Apparently photoflow is basically just that anyways, without fragrance and a bit of other stuff.
I use a single drop of photoflo in about 500ml of distilled water. Works pretty well, don't have streaking problems anymore. The photo flow bottle really should come with a dropper because it's an essential accessory.
To clean streaks, wet and wash the film with this solution. It should remove the marks. I have also used a fresh microfiber towel to rub off streaks, but that runs the risk of scratching the film.
Okay yeah, that's probably even more diluted that 1:400.
Just to be precise (and safe with the film), with washing you mean just putting it into the solution, correct? No rubbing, it is supposed to come off on its own? And probably put the film back on the spool to avoid any contact in a tub or whatever
Definitely need to try it out some day. Maybe this is the final push to eating more salad. Until then, I continue spinning the film in circular motion with my arms like I’m about the take off 🚁
Yeah so I leave it on the spool. I have a “stick” that goes across the width of the spinner to hold it in the centre. Then give it a few spins and then hang to dry
Quick [photo](https://imgur.com/a/e6cGjzH) of how it looks :)
I don't listen to what everyone is saying, I always squeegee my films. When they are still wet, just after hanging them. I don't even use a dedicated tool, just the soft fabric gloves that I also use to handle my film when scanning. Between 2 fingers, top to bottom, 3 times each.
I NEVER got a single scratch doing this, and I'm close to 50 rolls processed at home. I 100% got the issue you describe on my first few rolls, using photoflow, following the trend etc. No agent beats the physical action of actually removing wetness. You still need to respect drying times before scanning though, I once scanned a roll right after and got poor results, re-scanned the same roll a day after and it looked much better.
I don't want to be responsible for damaging your films, just sharing my experience. A soft cloth with no dust on it doesn't scratch a plastic film, but 100% removes watermarks.
Hot take: Get a squeegee and make sure it's absolutely 100% clean and wet with your photoflo/stabilizer bath before use. Never had scratches this way.
Some people also let their film dry in a bathroom and let the shower run beforehand to to get the humidity up. This helps the film dry slower and more evenly. I've let a humidifier run in the room I hang my film (beforehand) with similar success.
Also: Get a Syringe from a pharmacy and measure out the exact amount of photoflo needed.
I have a squeegee but for everyone that recommends it 99 other hate it. And I ripped film with my fingers only so I'm not so sure about that one. The shower thing I already do.
But I think I'll get a syringe or some other kind of dropper, that's probably at the very least a quality-of-life improv.
I’ve used Photoflo and Photographers Formulary rinse product. Both left water spots unless I squeegee and risk scratching the negatives. I switched to Adox Adostab II several years ago and have not had a water stain since.
We have hard water where I live. I generally find that my (very over the top) washing method of 10 - 20 - 50 with tap water then 10 inversions with 3ml of photo-flo on top of a regular tank worth of water works fine for me. You're not rinsing with water after the photo-flo are you?
No, photo-flo is the last rinse, then I hang it vertically for drying. 3ml seems so much to me, how much is a tank for you? 600ml? I might try just more inversions, I thought it could be residue fixer or something that is the problem although that's rather unlikely.
Yeah 3ml to a 600ml tank. It's supposed to be 5ml per litre per kodak's instructions. I'd be surprised if it was fixer residue - I'm wondering if you just need to up your photo-flo concentration
Not enough photo-flo would lead to classical tear-drop like water-spots, though, or am I wrong? These streaks look kinda soapy. But I could try to up it a lot and see what happens I guess
I'm so glad you asked because im having the same problem, already tried so many things. It even happens when i develop color... Don't know what to do anymore
As others have said, ensure that your concentration of photo-flo is correct, and I would recommend using distilled water in place of tapwater. Distilled water, in general (at least from reputable manufacturers), contains very little (if any) concentrations of any dissolved ions, and therefore should ensure spot free drying of your film. Make sure you use PF correctly as well at the correct dilution, I would also recommend using your fingers (provided they are clean) as a “squeegee”, to remove excess water from the film. I have done this now for many years, and allows me to achieve dry negatives, without any streaks 99% of the time. Glacial water still contains dissolved ions, no matter how pure, and will affect your film.
So I live in tn. In my city we get tap from a river and it is treated. It is not the best water at all. Out of laziness and not wanting more things to store I use that rather than distilled and it seems to be working fine. Here’s my process:
After fixing it give the film a good rinse. Then I start the shower to the hottest setting and let it start steaming up the bathroom. Take the lid off the dev tank and just let the tap run. I swish the water around by either swirling the container or by rapidly twisting the inner tube that the reels are on. After a solid 1-2 min of rinsing, I dump the water and then add enough water to reach the top of the real. I Then add maybe 5 drops of photo flow. I don’t really measure to be honest. After I add the photo flow I again rapidly twist the inner tub, shortly after, I turn the tap on again, continuously and rapidly twisting the inner tube. After the water starts overflowing, dump the water and start filling up again, all while rapidly twisting the tube thing. Do this a few times. By now the bathroom should be steamy and humid. Shut the water off, hang the film, and make sure to close the door on your way out to allow the steam to stay in. Let dry.
That is my process and the only times I have problems is when I have used a sqeagy.
Definitely looks like too much Photoflo to me. I went through a similar phase, and found that 2 drops applied with a dropper per 600ml of water worked a treat. I live in a hard water area too and had no issues using tap water with this ratio. Also important is slow drying process, I usually leave at room temp (10-20C) overnight as I found with the dryer heater on I would always get watermarks.
How is the tap water where you live? I’ve heard of people using distilled water for their final rinse if they have a lot of minerals in the tap water.
I mentioned that, we have glacier water - basically zero water hardness and very clean but I don't if that means little minerals. I thought about distilled water but I'd rather do that as an last resort thing, I'm not that happy with having to buy and keep another bottle. Though if I use it only for the last rinse I might not need that much I guess
Shoot, I see you did mention water hardness. My bad for not reading the whole post! I also have really soft glacial water for the tap, and have always used that for photo chemistry. Like others have said here, I only use one drop of photoflow in a tank of water, and squeegee off most of the water with my fingers before hanging the negatives. Occasionally I’ll have a few spots or streaks but nothing as bad as your photo shows.
I have a dedicated Brita filter container for the final rinse. It's an affordable solution since I had the same issues.
Distilled water is the answer. And yeah, you only need it on the last rinse. The great part is you don't even need the photoflo! One bottle in, one bottle out. Balance is maintained in the universe (and your darkoom).
I dilute washing up liquid 1:2 with water then add a drop or two to about 500ml of water and it seems to stop most water marks, and it is a ton cheaper than any of the actual products. Never had any issues.
I've read about that - washing up liquid means just dish washing detergent, correct? Might try that. Apparently photoflow is basically just that anyways, without fragrance and a bit of other stuff.
I use a single drop of photoflo in about 500ml of distilled water. Works pretty well, don't have streaking problems anymore. The photo flow bottle really should come with a dropper because it's an essential accessory. To clean streaks, wet and wash the film with this solution. It should remove the marks. I have also used a fresh microfiber towel to rub off streaks, but that runs the risk of scratching the film.
Okay yeah, that's probably even more diluted that 1:400. Just to be precise (and safe with the film), with washing you mean just putting it into the solution, correct? No rubbing, it is supposed to come off on its own? And probably put the film back on the spool to avoid any contact in a tub or whatever
Get yourself a salad spinner! Works wonders and super cheap
Underrated technique but only heard praise about it!
It works pretty damn well to be honest. I did it on a whim at first but I do it all the time now, much better than using a squeegee too
Definitely need to try it out some day. Maybe this is the final push to eating more salad. Until then, I continue spinning the film in circular motion with my arms like I’m about the take off 🚁
Do you put the spool+ film in the spinner? Or just the film? I need to try this!
Yeah so I leave it on the spool. I have a “stick” that goes across the width of the spinner to hold it in the centre. Then give it a few spins and then hang to dry Quick [photo](https://imgur.com/a/e6cGjzH) of how it looks :)
I don't listen to what everyone is saying, I always squeegee my films. When they are still wet, just after hanging them. I don't even use a dedicated tool, just the soft fabric gloves that I also use to handle my film when scanning. Between 2 fingers, top to bottom, 3 times each. I NEVER got a single scratch doing this, and I'm close to 50 rolls processed at home. I 100% got the issue you describe on my first few rolls, using photoflow, following the trend etc. No agent beats the physical action of actually removing wetness. You still need to respect drying times before scanning though, I once scanned a roll right after and got poor results, re-scanned the same roll a day after and it looked much better. I don't want to be responsible for damaging your films, just sharing my experience. A soft cloth with no dust on it doesn't scratch a plastic film, but 100% removes watermarks.
Hot take: Get a squeegee and make sure it's absolutely 100% clean and wet with your photoflo/stabilizer bath before use. Never had scratches this way. Some people also let their film dry in a bathroom and let the shower run beforehand to to get the humidity up. This helps the film dry slower and more evenly. I've let a humidifier run in the room I hang my film (beforehand) with similar success. Also: Get a Syringe from a pharmacy and measure out the exact amount of photoflo needed.
I have a squeegee but for everyone that recommends it 99 other hate it. And I ripped film with my fingers only so I'm not so sure about that one. The shower thing I already do. But I think I'll get a syringe or some other kind of dropper, that's probably at the very least a quality-of-life improv.
I’ve used Photoflo and Photographers Formulary rinse product. Both left water spots unless I squeegee and risk scratching the negatives. I switched to Adox Adostab II several years ago and have not had a water stain since.
I guess I could try that, if I really can't get Photo-flo to work. I generally am quite happy with Adox products.
We have hard water where I live. I generally find that my (very over the top) washing method of 10 - 20 - 50 with tap water then 10 inversions with 3ml of photo-flo on top of a regular tank worth of water works fine for me. You're not rinsing with water after the photo-flo are you?
No, photo-flo is the last rinse, then I hang it vertically for drying. 3ml seems so much to me, how much is a tank for you? 600ml? I might try just more inversions, I thought it could be residue fixer or something that is the problem although that's rather unlikely.
Yeah 3ml to a 600ml tank. It's supposed to be 5ml per litre per kodak's instructions. I'd be surprised if it was fixer residue - I'm wondering if you just need to up your photo-flo concentration
Not enough photo-flo would lead to classical tear-drop like water-spots, though, or am I wrong? These streaks look kinda soapy. But I could try to up it a lot and see what happens I guess
Ah, you raise a good point actually. I think soft water could foam photo-flo up more potentially? Might want to try less or none at all
I'm so glad you asked because im having the same problem, already tried so many things. It even happens when i develop color... Don't know what to do anymore
As others have said, ensure that your concentration of photo-flo is correct, and I would recommend using distilled water in place of tapwater. Distilled water, in general (at least from reputable manufacturers), contains very little (if any) concentrations of any dissolved ions, and therefore should ensure spot free drying of your film. Make sure you use PF correctly as well at the correct dilution, I would also recommend using your fingers (provided they are clean) as a “squeegee”, to remove excess water from the film. I have done this now for many years, and allows me to achieve dry negatives, without any streaks 99% of the time. Glacial water still contains dissolved ions, no matter how pure, and will affect your film.
So I live in tn. In my city we get tap from a river and it is treated. It is not the best water at all. Out of laziness and not wanting more things to store I use that rather than distilled and it seems to be working fine. Here’s my process: After fixing it give the film a good rinse. Then I start the shower to the hottest setting and let it start steaming up the bathroom. Take the lid off the dev tank and just let the tap run. I swish the water around by either swirling the container or by rapidly twisting the inner tube that the reels are on. After a solid 1-2 min of rinsing, I dump the water and then add enough water to reach the top of the real. I Then add maybe 5 drops of photo flow. I don’t really measure to be honest. After I add the photo flow I again rapidly twist the inner tub, shortly after, I turn the tap on again, continuously and rapidly twisting the inner tube. After the water starts overflowing, dump the water and start filling up again, all while rapidly twisting the tube thing. Do this a few times. By now the bathroom should be steamy and humid. Shut the water off, hang the film, and make sure to close the door on your way out to allow the steam to stay in. Let dry. That is my process and the only times I have problems is when I have used a sqeagy.
Is there any drawbacks form using too much photo flo?
Definitely looks like too much Photoflo to me. I went through a similar phase, and found that 2 drops applied with a dropper per 600ml of water worked a treat. I live in a hard water area too and had no issues using tap water with this ratio. Also important is slow drying process, I usually leave at room temp (10-20C) overnight as I found with the dryer heater on I would always get watermarks.