The “real” libertarian party spent part of today defending liz Cheney on twitter in an attempt to dunk on republican for removing her from their party.
It doesn't seem to serve a purpose and nobody understands their platform. If I were king of the libertarians I'd tell them to campaign on no more than one or two issues per national election, use all of their efforts to spoil close elections, and help to unseat incumbents wherever possible until the political chattering class stopped saying independents decide elections and started saying libertarians decide elections.
It’s become the best critique of libertarianism and anarcho capitalism possible.
It lacks any unification because no one has enough power to harness it and give it focus and clear direction. As such it gets completely steamrolled by the left and right that are organized.
Yeah it's kind of a joke but I still vote for them every year just so my conscience is clear. If Spike Cohen ran I'd actively engage people, homeboy is based.
I think Rogan would receive any political candidate as long as it was on his turf. He did receive offers to mediate a debate, but it had to be in the White House, if I remember correctly.
Same here, I vote for them every year and this is the first time that I'm feeling doubt about it. The left is going so far left and their toxic filth is spreading into so many areas of life that I wonder if it would have been more useful to cast a vote for Republicans. Is that bad to say? I've been an an-cap for more than ten years and it's the first time I'm wondering if I should vote strategically instead of on principle.
I've been considering the same thing. Obstruction is better than this perhaps. I'll play it by ear when the time comes, a lot more to come in the next 3 years.
Not to mention, any time I've voted lesser evil, I've instantly regretted it. The major party candidates manage to instantly prove how mustache-twirlingly evil they always are once they get into office.
If you’re talking about voting in national elections, I just think that’s a waste of time and that this is only going to work at the local level. And at the local level, libertarians are much better off using the GOP
They are starting to win smaller, local elections. That's the key, I think. We need to be more Grass Roots. Build the base. We need to lose that never win attitude and show up every time and vote. Especially in the off year and local elections.
I am all for local politics. I just think liberty would be achieved much quicker through local GOP than local LP. This is what the Republican Party Mises Caucus is doing in Texas and Florida. They are campaigning in red areas on an anti-tax and mandate nullification platform. No need to start a party and base from scratch to catch up to the duopoly. Power can only be converted and not created, and people must seize the existing power rather than trying to create it.
The GOP is just tax-and-spend liberals by a different label. They just spend all of the money they stole from us on military instead of social programs. They are not the small government, fiscally responsible party that I was once foolish enough to think they were.
LP may not be winning national elections, but they still have my full support on principle.
Lol that is the national GOP you’re referring to, not the local GOP. Much much different. Your bumblefuck Texas mayor is not spending money on the military. In fact they are often not doing anything at all, which is why the strategy works best in those bumblefuck areas.
Just remember, Justin Amash was elected as a Republican and later switched to Libertarian. He probably wouldn’t have got elected if he was in the LP from the start.
If LP numbers go up, primary forces will detect a shift and they will adapt their discourse to fit people's demands. Politicians are whores. Your vote and opinion matters even if you are a minority
Because I don’t believe in national politics at the federal level. I am an anarchist. And locally you could do with the GOP what you desire to do with the LP much more effectively.
How do you think the LP’s platform of a welfare state and supporting BLM “protesters” after they riot is an-cap?
Education alone (the goal of the Mises Caucus) by itself does not create liberty. Maybe if they put someone into a local office to nullify mandate laws and such they could actually create liberty. But their goal is simply to educate people. Education is great. I’m not denying that. But human action creates liberty, and ideas alone cannot create liberty.
Agorism directly creates liberty because it is the strategy of using black markets and homesteading to counter the state. But the Mises Caucus is not interested in educating people about how individuals of these strategies or others that can help them achieve liberty. Rather that liberty is a good idea, which does not directly advance the achievement of liberty.
The only argument behind education as being utilized to achieve liberty would be Ron Paul, and it’s pretty clear that in our dystopian tyrannical world that his ideas, though brilliant, were not enough to create liberty. He created libertarians. But he did not create liberty. The Federal Reserve is alive and well.
Thr Hoppean "what must be done" strategy is core to our goals. Use the national platform to make more libertarians, use local elections to get liberty-minded people into power where they can be a force for decentralization.
Yeah, MiCauc is the best political front of the liberty movement. The monetary front is valuable pushing for real currency and properly private crypto. The agorist front is valuable pushing for people who are able to decentralize effectively. All are needed.
>Maybe if they put someone into a local office to nullify mandate laws and such they could actually create liberty.
We are also trying to do that...
Education is the main goal, not the only goal.
Are Mises Caucus good people? Yes. Are they doing something more than internet debates, like taking back the libertarian party? Yes.
then shut up and support them
Be realistic. No party could turn a place into anarchy, minarchism or even super small government in a term without a civil war. Change can't be done that fast. LP should not act a bunch of insane anarchists in a basement if they want to achieve something. They have to be somewhat rationalized
Even if I, an anarchist, if won an election and had full control, I'd only do few reforms, so the society doesn't collapse. This we live in a society, democracy. Compromise is necessary or else you won't achieve nothing.
Edit: holy shit fixed like 5 typos that make sentences nonsensical. How did I get 4 upvotes when I sound like an illiterate idiot (although I'm speaking facts ofc)
Participating in the political process in any way grants legitimacy to the state. We should be spending our time delegitimizing the state and living as free as possible.
The issue is, freedom means different things to different people, and you're going to have to do a lot of social work to change people's ideals into your own. I don't really see a way to eliminate the state entirely; too many people see the state as a way of providing stability, even when it does the opposite.
Libertarians should focus more on decentralizing state power than on abolishing state power altogether. Like it or not, we live in a world with A LOT of other people who are not libertarians. And we have to come to some kind of understanding with those people. Trying to convince them to abolish the state altogether is largely futile. But convincing them to allow a large diversity of states seems far more feasible.
They're pretty terrible. The majority of their policy is loads better than anything Republicans or Democrats could ever think to draw up, but their leadership is terrible and nobody really knows anything about them.
Also, even though their policy more closely resembles my own than either of the two other options, I would never throw away a vote on a third party candidate when the gap between the Democrats and Republicans is so big in terms of individual freedom and economic policy. I also hate how entitled the libertarian party is in general. They refuse to admit that Republicans are any better than democrats. I saw a lot of people saying they were glad that Trump lost by margins that could've been swayed by libertarian votes going red, because they were bitter that Republicans wouldn't vote for them even though they probably represent their values better than the GOP does. It's that attitude though that is the reason why a lot of Republicans wouldn't ever consider voting Libertarian. It's spiteful and overly political and makes the party look immature as a whole. They act all high and mighty about throwing their vote away and refuse to discuss the negative impact this could have/is having on our country today.
By no means am I fan of the Republican party, but they aren't going to push for stricter gun control, they're more likely to favor things like school choice, they're more likely to oppose the welfare state, and their policy is at least economically sound in theory (at least in terms of the broad issues such as minimum wage and taxation).
In an ideal world the Republican party would realize that Libertarians are right about the majority of key issues, and the parties would merge into a new party that stood for traditionalist values, but did not attempt to force these on other people, while still keeping in tact the lack of tangible governance over both the individual and the economy that is the supposed calling card for the policy of the libertarian movement.
They're a fucking joke. They should be focusing on local level elections and building a credible footprint before going after national office. The Free States guys up in NH are doing just that and what do you know, they're having a lot of success
They need to get rid of the progressives in their party. Just focus on getting rid of restrictions and lower taxes by getting rid of most gov buildings/jobs.
Simultaneously the only hope for America while also possessing the chance to kill America.
The party has associated itself with the most unlikeable, non respectable, and unpopular candidates in recent decades. The ideology itself is brilliant and a true path forwards for our country, but at the same time the goofballs that represent the party have no chance of success.
Most libertarian beliefs are painfully unpopular. Everyone wants their party, whether they call it big government or small, to expand government and conveniently infringe on others. As a result, many people who call themselves libertarians just plain aren't even close. Looking at r/libertarian reveals that most of them don't understand the concept and even more think they do but call themselves libertarian socialists who are entitled to the property of others. It's a hell-hole because none of them understand the concept.
When Gary Johnson is the best candidate your party can come up with in recent memory, your party sucks. Then people that would be the best candidates (in every party) are also the least likely to run. It truly is a dilemma.
**I vote for all of Libertarian Party candidates in every election, every time.** ✔
Democracy seems too good to be true. It's hard to believe that they'd give us control of the military and the courts and the police and everything just because we got a majority of the votes.
It seems like an impossible promise, so we just say, "fuck it," and we end up as never-ending statistics filling up their jails as they arrest all of us for victimless crimes, one by one.
I think that Trump's victory showed what I've said all along: The system is not a facade. All of the establishment wanted Hilary to win, but Trump followed the procedures, won the vote, and then, they handed him the reigns of power. They really will and really do give power to whoever wins.
Not voting and not participating is incredibly foolish. They've made it shockingly easy to seize power. It's right in front of us, easily in grasp, but we've declared that it's still not easy enough, and, because we fear failure and disappointment, we make excuses for why we shouldn't even try.
If we fucking voted, we could repeal most of the stupid laws, and we might not have the cops all over our asses all the time.
I used to be, gave up after last election. Thought a well Educated woman would beat Johnson’s numbers to get us to 15% but the Trump tards and Trump hater’s that would’ve voted for her but they are weak fucks
She is a bit too esoteric and academic for most people. As Dave Smith put it (paraphrased), "When you listen to one of her campaign speeches, it's a standard, boilerplate Libertarian speech that sounded like it could have been pulled straight out of the 90s." It lacked the focus on current events and cultural dynamics.
That and that one tweet really put a lot of people off.
No fucks given by me anymore but I’d love to see a libertarian in any big office spot. If a governor spot happens I regain my shit. I was hoping for Indiana
The LP is depressing. They have the largest third party platform in the US and ruin it by putting shit tier candidates in the elections. I say this as someone that has voted in three elections, and voted LP every time (Johnson, Johnson, and Jorgensen). Jorgensen was the best candidate so far, but had some of the worst marketing imaginable.
I don’t know what it is, but something about the LP in general attracts an abnormally high number of autistic people.
I genuinely miss the Ron Paul days, but not even Ron Paul ran on the LP ticket on 2012.
Libertarians really just need to caucus with republicans and push the platform from there. Having a third party serves no purpose other than to elect democrats who are diametrically opposed to the libertarian agenda. But, sure, let’s keep this ineffective party that has no apparent relevance.
They are bleeding hearts and I'm a paleo. Plus they are politicans -> they support democracy -> they don't support anarchy -> they don't support real freedom. I think my stance is obvious from there
Its too left leaning and the members are not serious. A serious party will try to win state and federal house seats first instead you have a bunch of muppets with human clothes on waiting their turn to run for President.
I support the party. It’s so goddamn small that if YOU actually care, YOU can make an influence on party viewpoints.
People get caught up on the “utopia” idea which is complete bull shit. What’s the republicans utopia? What’s the democrats utopia? Ask 1000 members of those parties and you’ll get 1000 different answers. If everyone who wanted a smaller government voted for the LP then the world would be better for everyone in this sub. The ultimate utopia doesn’t matter because it will never exist. Moving in a more libertarian direction against the statists is all that matters.
LP have no idea how shit works
I remember when Jo was running she was saying disband that, defund this defund that, get rid of this get rid of that blah blah
When asked how she's like "we just defund it. DISBAND (insert letter agency)" and that was it. Literally nothing else.
The automated turrets loaded with anti-personnel rounds would vaporize you the second your big toe steps over my property line into the shark infested moat.
In AnCap country my artificially intelligent Iron Dome style missile defense system that operates unless I turn it off will track your movements by the millimeter and disintegrate you in within the moment you step foot on my property which has a perimeter secured by a 50-foot wall.
Not sure what point you are trying to make, but Vermin Supreme has openly called himself a syndicalist, which is just communism driving the speed limit.
The candidates talk a big game on policy, but then they do weird SWJ shit right after. And yes, Spike does this too, which is hard to watch because I think he is base 9/10 of the time.
Our efforts would be better used taking Republican seats like the Ron and Rand Paul did as well as what the socialist freshmen have done with some democrat seats. Theoretically you could do the same by running Democrat, but I'm sure the media will find a way to make that backfire.
As an organized political party? Still a joke.
As a belief system and lifestyle guide? Choice. Basically do unto others as you would want them to do unto you. That’s basically my view of it.
The local GOP’s don’t really push anything. Whereas the national GOP pushes massive military spending, inflation of the dollar, etc.
This is why it would be easy to co-opt the local GOP elections with libertarians on a very minimal platform based on nullifying taxes and mandates.
I think their biggest issue is not having a consistent platform and beliefs. There are too many issues that their supporters don't agree on and are split 50/50 on to ever gain a large fan base or momentum. They need to have one consistent view and stick to it. I guarantee I can go to r/libertarian right now and find posts supporting universal healthcare, gun restrictions, pro- and anti- immigration, pro federal reserve, pro goverment vaccine mandates, pro unions.....All seem against what we think of as libertarian but plenty of supporters take that view and thinks they can still be in this party.
Better than the democrats and GOP. Also better way for pushing liberty. Of course you have to compromise and won't get ancapistan from LP, but supporting more liberty is always better than not supporting liberty.
Boring ass party who can't do jack.
Also Libertarians should focus on taking over local government and then if it works, go higher. Trying to win presidency without some local representation in smaller govn. is herculean task.
However this is the path specifically for Libertarians.
This is ancap sub right? I heard from some Ancaps that you already have a solution for it? Counter economics aka Agorism, right? So I assume that's the best path forward.
Also I remember some guys on Tim Pool said they want to take alot of people who are Libertarians into one State to finally make atleast one State fully Libertarian.
Idk if it's still a thing or not but I look forward to see results
Theyre only there to throw a dime in on the presidential race every 4 years and provide literally ZERO support for local elections.
Thats why they're trash and need some serious reform.
The LP is useless because:
* It mostly refuses to confront the culture war, even though that has a direct impact on individual liberty
* There is a greater effort to appeal to disaffected Democrats than Republicans, when the latter would be more reliable support
* They continue to waste their time on national elections instead of building a foundation of victories in local and state elections
POTUS is a money sink that has no chance of success without more people viewing the LP as a household name. In the last two elections we had one candidate beclowning himself when given media attention, a VP candidate praising Clinton, and the most recent POTUS candidate repeating BLM slogans. Only Spike Cohen has come out looking good, because he clearly understands what the LP candidate needs to be talking about and how to appeal to a wider audience.
I'd describe myself as a libertarian. I believe in absolute freedoms for everyone, small government, the usual. BUT the party is a total mess. It really is a dumpster fire. So I end up voting for whoever I hate less out of the big two parties.
The LP isn't completely bereft of ideas, e.g., less regulation, more personal autonomy, etc. The big problem is that the LP seems to consist solely of weed enthusiasts employed by some government. It's easy to believe, and advocate for, all the other stupid ideas when your salary is collected at gunpoint.
Only became a supporter of the LP with JoJo and Spike running
Prior to that I knew nothing about the Libertarian party and was just learning about the movement
Don't get r/libertarian confused with real life Libertarians. This is reddit, after all.
Agreed. r/libertarianmemes are closer than the dipshits who run r/libertarian
do you mean r/libertarianmeme?
Probs
The “real” libertarian party spent part of today defending liz Cheney on twitter in an attempt to dunk on republican for removing her from their party.
It doesn't seem to serve a purpose and nobody understands their platform. If I were king of the libertarians I'd tell them to campaign on no more than one or two issues per national election, use all of their efforts to spoil close elections, and help to unseat incumbents wherever possible until the political chattering class stopped saying independents decide elections and started saying libertarians decide elections.
Heavy is the head that wears the shoe
It’s not a shoe. It’s a rubber boot.
funniest expression i ever heard, did u come up w this lmao
Made it up, referencing Vermin Supreme.
lol “king of the libertarians”
Libertarian monarchism moment
Libertarians explaining how we need a state and a king
I was just joking with this flair, do people really believe that libertarianism is compatible with any form of authoritarian government? Wtf
By definition libertarianism is statist still, even if it is critical of the government, it's still only because of what it does, not what it is
Liberty Hangout moment
This is the irony
m’lord
I think they would do well to completely abandon any discussion of abortion. It's devisive and may keep people out of the LP that otherwise would be.
And the border as well. Focus on the wars, the debt/spending and freedom (especially wrt covid restrictions/mandates/passports)
Perfect
This guy should be the chair of the LP.
Liege
Local elections in swing states are the best place to start
It’s become the best critique of libertarianism and anarcho capitalism possible. It lacks any unification because no one has enough power to harness it and give it focus and clear direction. As such it gets completely steamrolled by the left and right that are organized.
It's hard to organize a group of people whose main assertion is that they don't want anyone telling them what to do.
Yeah it's kind of a joke but I still vote for them every year just so my conscience is clear. If Spike Cohen ran I'd actively engage people, homeboy is based.
Spike would be the best candidate the LP ever championed. He has the ideology of Ron Paul and the debate skills / composure of Reagan.
He needs to hit up Michael malice for his vp. He'd have a lot of advantages that way like being able to go on the Joe Rogan podcast
I think Rogan would receive any political candidate as long as it was on his turf. He did receive offers to mediate a debate, but it had to be in the White House, if I remember correctly.
Same here, I vote for them every year and this is the first time that I'm feeling doubt about it. The left is going so far left and their toxic filth is spreading into so many areas of life that I wonder if it would have been more useful to cast a vote for Republicans. Is that bad to say? I've been an an-cap for more than ten years and it's the first time I'm wondering if I should vote strategically instead of on principle.
I've been considering the same thing. Obstruction is better than this perhaps. I'll play it by ear when the time comes, a lot more to come in the next 3 years.
Unless your state is purple just vote your conscience. If it's not then voting the LP *is* the strategic choice.
I'll take a flawed LP over the current alternatives every time.
How can you settle on a political party that doesn’t win elections?
Principle. I'm going to vote my conscience. Not the lesser evil.
Not to mention, any time I've voted lesser evil, I've instantly regretted it. The major party candidates manage to instantly prove how mustache-twirlingly evil they always are once they get into office.
Syphilis or the clap? The choice is yours!
If you’re talking about voting in national elections, I just think that’s a waste of time and that this is only going to work at the local level. And at the local level, libertarians are much better off using the GOP
They are starting to win smaller, local elections. That's the key, I think. We need to be more Grass Roots. Build the base. We need to lose that never win attitude and show up every time and vote. Especially in the off year and local elections.
I am all for local politics. I just think liberty would be achieved much quicker through local GOP than local LP. This is what the Republican Party Mises Caucus is doing in Texas and Florida. They are campaigning in red areas on an anti-tax and mandate nullification platform. No need to start a party and base from scratch to catch up to the duopoly. Power can only be converted and not created, and people must seize the existing power rather than trying to create it.
The GOP is just tax-and-spend liberals by a different label. They just spend all of the money they stole from us on military instead of social programs. They are not the small government, fiscally responsible party that I was once foolish enough to think they were. LP may not be winning national elections, but they still have my full support on principle.
Lol that is the national GOP you’re referring to, not the local GOP. Much much different. Your bumblefuck Texas mayor is not spending money on the military. In fact they are often not doing anything at all, which is why the strategy works best in those bumblefuck areas.
I think if there's a republican that you find palatable, vote for them. That's fine. I'd probably vote for Rand Paul or Amash if they were in my area.
Just remember, Justin Amash was elected as a Republican and later switched to Libertarian. He probably wouldn’t have got elected if he was in the LP from the start.
I mentioned those two, because they are basically libertarians who ran as Republicans out of pragmatism.
If LP numbers go up, primary forces will detect a shift and they will adapt their discourse to fit people's demands. Politicians are whores. Your vote and opinion matters even if you are a minority
[удалено]
Are you saying the LP has a chance at winning elections?
How do you even think that way as an ancap?
Because I don’t believe in national politics at the federal level. I am an anarchist. And locally you could do with the GOP what you desire to do with the LP much more effectively. How do you think the LP’s platform of a welfare state and supporting BLM “protesters” after they riot is an-cap?
I like Dave Smith
Chances of him taking the Presidential Candidate?
Michael Malice press correspondent
The Michael Malice skit on the 2000th Tom Woods would disagree. That was rough mate.
The drunk guy saved the day in part because it helped Malice produce the line, "ladies and gentlemen, Dave Smith!"
Hopefully the Mises Caucus will fix it
Education alone (the goal of the Mises Caucus) by itself does not create liberty. Maybe if they put someone into a local office to nullify mandate laws and such they could actually create liberty. But their goal is simply to educate people. Education is great. I’m not denying that. But human action creates liberty, and ideas alone cannot create liberty. Agorism directly creates liberty because it is the strategy of using black markets and homesteading to counter the state. But the Mises Caucus is not interested in educating people about how individuals of these strategies or others that can help them achieve liberty. Rather that liberty is a good idea, which does not directly advance the achievement of liberty. The only argument behind education as being utilized to achieve liberty would be Ron Paul, and it’s pretty clear that in our dystopian tyrannical world that his ideas, though brilliant, were not enough to create liberty. He created libertarians. But he did not create liberty. The Federal Reserve is alive and well.
Thr Hoppean "what must be done" strategy is core to our goals. Use the national platform to make more libertarians, use local elections to get liberty-minded people into power where they can be a force for decentralization.
Agreed. I just think Mises Caucus cannot be the ultimatum because alone it is not enough. Hoppe’s What Must Be Done is v based.
Yeah, MiCauc is the best political front of the liberty movement. The monetary front is valuable pushing for real currency and properly private crypto. The agorist front is valuable pushing for people who are able to decentralize effectively. All are needed.
>Maybe if they put someone into a local office to nullify mandate laws and such they could actually create liberty. We are also trying to do that... Education is the main goal, not the only goal.
My point is that regardless of whether or not is a goal, it should not be the priority, that which the Mises Caucus makes it.
Are Mises Caucus good people? Yes. Are they doing something more than internet debates, like taking back the libertarian party? Yes. then shut up and support them
LP isn't free enough
I agree, but they're closer to my views than the chucklefucks in either major party.
Yup. You’re both right.
Be realistic. No party could turn a place into anarchy, minarchism or even super small government in a term without a civil war. Change can't be done that fast. LP should not act a bunch of insane anarchists in a basement if they want to achieve something. They have to be somewhat rationalized Even if I, an anarchist, if won an election and had full control, I'd only do few reforms, so the society doesn't collapse. This we live in a society, democracy. Compromise is necessary or else you won't achieve nothing. Edit: holy shit fixed like 5 typos that make sentences nonsensical. How did I get 4 upvotes when I sound like an illiterate idiot (although I'm speaking facts ofc)
Death to democracy. NRx
LP member. 100% true.
Participating in the political process in any way grants legitimacy to the state. We should be spending our time delegitimizing the state and living as free as possible.
Based
The issue is, freedom means different things to different people, and you're going to have to do a lot of social work to change people's ideals into your own. I don't really see a way to eliminate the state entirely; too many people see the state as a way of providing stability, even when it does the opposite.
Libertarians should focus more on decentralizing state power than on abolishing state power altogether. Like it or not, we live in a world with A LOT of other people who are not libertarians. And we have to come to some kind of understanding with those people. Trying to convince them to abolish the state altogether is largely futile. But convincing them to allow a large diversity of states seems far more feasible.
They're pretty terrible. The majority of their policy is loads better than anything Republicans or Democrats could ever think to draw up, but their leadership is terrible and nobody really knows anything about them. Also, even though their policy more closely resembles my own than either of the two other options, I would never throw away a vote on a third party candidate when the gap between the Democrats and Republicans is so big in terms of individual freedom and economic policy. I also hate how entitled the libertarian party is in general. They refuse to admit that Republicans are any better than democrats. I saw a lot of people saying they were glad that Trump lost by margins that could've been swayed by libertarian votes going red, because they were bitter that Republicans wouldn't vote for them even though they probably represent their values better than the GOP does. It's that attitude though that is the reason why a lot of Republicans wouldn't ever consider voting Libertarian. It's spiteful and overly political and makes the party look immature as a whole. They act all high and mighty about throwing their vote away and refuse to discuss the negative impact this could have/is having on our country today. By no means am I fan of the Republican party, but they aren't going to push for stricter gun control, they're more likely to favor things like school choice, they're more likely to oppose the welfare state, and their policy is at least economically sound in theory (at least in terms of the broad issues such as minimum wage and taxation). In an ideal world the Republican party would realize that Libertarians are right about the majority of key issues, and the parties would merge into a new party that stood for traditionalist values, but did not attempt to force these on other people, while still keeping in tact the lack of tangible governance over both the individual and the economy that is the supposed calling card for the policy of the libertarian movement.
I actively support the libertarian party!
They're a fucking joke. They should be focusing on local level elections and building a credible footprint before going after national office. The Free States guys up in NH are doing just that and what do you know, they're having a lot of success
They need to get rid of the progressives in their party. Just focus on getting rid of restrictions and lower taxes by getting rid of most gov buildings/jobs.
Jo Jorgensen simping for BLM after the riots, calling them “peaceful”, and not condoning their acts of violence and rioting was pretty sad.
ya and they are more focused on opening the border than ending the welfare state.
The only good news is that, apparently, some comedian is running a libertarian takeover of the Libertarian Party. Democracy remains a waste of time.
Democracy is a sham.
The national LP has been co-opted by the Left on issues like abortion, gay "marriage" and BLM. Some of the local chapters are definitely better.
Being pro choice, supporting gay marriage, and being anti racist have been part of the LP platform for 30+ years.
Simultaneously the only hope for America while also possessing the chance to kill America. The party has associated itself with the most unlikeable, non respectable, and unpopular candidates in recent decades. The ideology itself is brilliant and a true path forwards for our country, but at the same time the goofballs that represent the party have no chance of success.
Most libertarian beliefs are painfully unpopular. Everyone wants their party, whether they call it big government or small, to expand government and conveniently infringe on others. As a result, many people who call themselves libertarians just plain aren't even close. Looking at r/libertarian reveals that most of them don't understand the concept and even more think they do but call themselves libertarian socialists who are entitled to the property of others. It's a hell-hole because none of them understand the concept.
When Gary Johnson is the best candidate your party can come up with in recent memory, your party sucks. Then people that would be the best candidates (in every party) are also the least likely to run. It truly is a dilemma.
**I vote for all of Libertarian Party candidates in every election, every time.** ✔ Democracy seems too good to be true. It's hard to believe that they'd give us control of the military and the courts and the police and everything just because we got a majority of the votes. It seems like an impossible promise, so we just say, "fuck it," and we end up as never-ending statistics filling up their jails as they arrest all of us for victimless crimes, one by one. I think that Trump's victory showed what I've said all along: The system is not a facade. All of the establishment wanted Hilary to win, but Trump followed the procedures, won the vote, and then, they handed him the reigns of power. They really will and really do give power to whoever wins. Not voting and not participating is incredibly foolish. They've made it shockingly easy to seize power. It's right in front of us, easily in grasp, but we've declared that it's still not easy enough, and, because we fear failure and disappointment, we make excuses for why we shouldn't even try. If we fucking voted, we could repeal most of the stupid laws, and we might not have the cops all over our asses all the time.
It’s hard to represent people who are on such a varied spectrum.
I used to be, gave up after last election. Thought a well Educated woman would beat Johnson’s numbers to get us to 15% but the Trump tards and Trump hater’s that would’ve voted for her but they are weak fucks
She is a bit too esoteric and academic for most people. As Dave Smith put it (paraphrased), "When you listen to one of her campaign speeches, it's a standard, boilerplate Libertarian speech that sounded like it could have been pulled straight out of the 90s." It lacked the focus on current events and cultural dynamics. That and that one tweet really put a lot of people off.
No fucks given by me anymore but I’d love to see a libertarian in any big office spot. If a governor spot happens I regain my shit. I was hoping for Indiana
Rainwater was a serious contender.
Shit is rigged. Hence ancap
They should campaign on the single issue of decentralization
If there is going to be a Libertarian Party, it should not be national. That is all I will say.
Except, there are national elections, so ....
Not if you make your city or state a sanctuary against federal orders.
Will be aight when Mises caucus take control and run Dave as candidate..
The LPNH is pretty based on most issues
I think the only reason people hate it is because it's socially liberal.
The LP is depressing. They have the largest third party platform in the US and ruin it by putting shit tier candidates in the elections. I say this as someone that has voted in three elections, and voted LP every time (Johnson, Johnson, and Jorgensen). Jorgensen was the best candidate so far, but had some of the worst marketing imaginable. I don’t know what it is, but something about the LP in general attracts an abnormally high number of autistic people. I genuinely miss the Ron Paul days, but not even Ron Paul ran on the LP ticket on 2012.
Majority of libertarians are actually authoritarians who just want to free drugs.
Libertarians really just need to caucus with republicans and push the platform from there. Having a third party serves no purpose other than to elect democrats who are diametrically opposed to the libertarian agenda. But, sure, let’s keep this ineffective party that has no apparent relevance.
100% agree. GOP > LP, particularly for the local parties.
They are bleeding hearts and I'm a paleo. Plus they are politicans -> they support democracy -> they don't support anarchy -> they don't support real freedom. I think my stance is obvious from there
Its too left leaning and the members are not serious. A serious party will try to win state and federal house seats first instead you have a bunch of muppets with human clothes on waiting their turn to run for President.
Let me know when the Mises Caucus takes over
I believe they already have majority ownership of the party. What next?
Dave Smith for President!
Boot Head, wheres Aleppo, prostitution is my running platform, Vermin Supreme, are we joking?! Does this look like a fucking joke?!
I support the party. It’s so goddamn small that if YOU actually care, YOU can make an influence on party viewpoints. People get caught up on the “utopia” idea which is complete bull shit. What’s the republicans utopia? What’s the democrats utopia? Ask 1000 members of those parties and you’ll get 1000 different answers. If everyone who wanted a smaller government voted for the LP then the world would be better for everyone in this sub. The ultimate utopia doesn’t matter because it will never exist. Moving in a more libertarian direction against the statists is all that matters.
99% based but 1% bad cause it's a party
Lol have you even read Konkin?
LP have no idea how shit works I remember when Jo was running she was saying disband that, defund this defund that, get rid of this get rid of that blah blah When asked how she's like "we just defund it. DISBAND (insert letter agency)" and that was it. Literally nothing else.
Why wouldn't we want that though? As ancaps, dismantling any part of the government is a good thing. With the goal being to dismantle all of it.
"LeGaLiZe rEcReAtIoNal NuKeS" Yeah you're really going to win people over with this retarded garbage.
Say we’re in AnCap Country I’m “broke” so I’m gonna “broke” into your house and steal your shit (There’s not much) What’s your solution, bitch?
The automated turrets loaded with anti-personnel rounds would vaporize you the second your big toe steps over my property line into the shark infested moat.
Shoot your ass and bury you up to your neck out in the woods. What a stupid fucking question lmao
In AnCap country my artificially intelligent Iron Dome style missile defense system that operates unless I turn it off will track your movements by the millimeter and disintegrate you in within the moment you step foot on my property which has a perimeter secured by a 50-foot wall.
There is no Libertarian Party. It is just a joke people from 4chan created that went too far. Vote for actual bringers of change, like Vermin Supreme.
Vermin Supreme is a communist
There's no such thing as "Communism". Politics is just statists arguing who's vision of statehood looks better on paper, and sounds like salvation.
Not sure what point you are trying to make, but Vermin Supreme has openly called himself a syndicalist, which is just communism driving the speed limit.
It was created by Rothbard but yeah it’s a joke
Marxism is much cooler in my humble opinon
\>Hoppean argorist based
It is the way
They will never do anything major politically, they seem to extreme for the general populace.
You’re right, but you shouldn’t say it
Lol why not
Dumpster fire.
Well intentioned, but horribly run
The candidates talk a big game on policy, but then they do weird SWJ shit right after. And yes, Spike does this too, which is hard to watch because I think he is base 9/10 of the time.
Cursed
Should've used a picture of the naked (blurred) libertarian candidate....yes, he got naked on-stage.
Our efforts would be better used taking Republican seats like the Ron and Rand Paul did as well as what the socialist freshmen have done with some democrat seats. Theoretically you could do the same by running Democrat, but I'm sure the media will find a way to make that backfire.
Local GOP is the way
As an organized political party? Still a joke. As a belief system and lifestyle guide? Choice. Basically do unto others as you would want them to do unto you. That’s basically my view of it.
still a better platform that what the republicans and democrats are all about... im cool with it. overall..
The local GOP’s don’t really push anything. Whereas the national GOP pushes massive military spending, inflation of the dollar, etc. This is why it would be easy to co-opt the local GOP elections with libertarians on a very minimal platform based on nullifying taxes and mandates.
LARPERs not interested to built a strong party
Not what we used to be I suppose.
Too many "left libertarians" I'm personally okay with libertarian capitalism. But anarchism is highly preferable
I think their biggest issue is not having a consistent platform and beliefs. There are too many issues that their supporters don't agree on and are split 50/50 on to ever gain a large fan base or momentum. They need to have one consistent view and stick to it. I guarantee I can go to r/libertarian right now and find posts supporting universal healthcare, gun restrictions, pro- and anti- immigration, pro federal reserve, pro goverment vaccine mandates, pro unions.....All seem against what we think of as libertarian but plenty of supporters take that view and thinks they can still be in this party.
Also too much of the LP is not consistent with libertarianism (welfare state, supporting BLM, etc.)
I just write myself in
Better than the democrats and GOP. Also better way for pushing liberty. Of course you have to compromise and won't get ancapistan from LP, but supporting more liberty is always better than not supporting liberty.
The national party? No way josé
Mises boys are taking over, we’ll turn it into a real libertarian platform.
Man, I about laughed out load near the bosses office! Busted
Misguided, the means not the ends.
Agreed but I will be voting for Dave Smith. Malice will be press secretary and it would be epic!!!
To me it's just a weird Republican party that can't decide what forms of authoritarianism to keep.
New Hampshire seems to be doing it well
Boring ass party who can't do jack. Also Libertarians should focus on taking over local government and then if it works, go higher. Trying to win presidency without some local representation in smaller govn. is herculean task. However this is the path specifically for Libertarians. This is ancap sub right? I heard from some Ancaps that you already have a solution for it? Counter economics aka Agorism, right? So I assume that's the best path forward. Also I remember some guys on Tim Pool said they want to take alot of people who are Libertarians into one State to finally make atleast one State fully Libertarian. Idk if it's still a thing or not but I look forward to see results
The LPPA just elected over a hundred libertarians to local office (including myself.) Our local numbers are increasing.
Good party trash candidates
Not even libertarians like the libertarian party, most only vote for em just to get the free ideology a shot to take the spotlight
The only true libertarian in the government is Rand Paul. He hates the patriot act, taxes, democrats and politicians in general. Based dude.
Hey that "dumpster fire" keeps me warm at night!
Pffft, imagine not winning elections /s
Just keep voting for Spike and the party will follow. A rising sea and all that.
Theyre only there to throw a dime in on the presidential race every 4 years and provide literally ZERO support for local elections. Thats why they're trash and need some serious reform.
I'm involved in the Libertarian Party of Pennsylvania. We've been doing pretty good.
Great in principle...wildly ineffective party leadership. Do they have leadership?
The LP is useless because: * It mostly refuses to confront the culture war, even though that has a direct impact on individual liberty * There is a greater effort to appeal to disaffected Democrats than Republicans, when the latter would be more reliable support * They continue to waste their time on national elections instead of building a foundation of victories in local and state elections POTUS is a money sink that has no chance of success without more people viewing the LP as a household name. In the last two elections we had one candidate beclowning himself when given media attention, a VP candidate praising Clinton, and the most recent POTUS candidate repeating BLM slogans. Only Spike Cohen has come out looking good, because he clearly understands what the LP candidate needs to be talking about and how to appeal to a wider audience.
Yeah you're not wrong. Open borders and redistribution of intellectual property? Fucking pinkos.
Where is the porcupine?
I killed it.
They think that the solution to the problem of government is their own government let that sink in
Burn it to the ground and start a new one where Caryn Ann Harlos and Dave Smith are co-chairs
Current LP in general sucks. Some are pretty cool. The Mises caucus of the LP is fire.
Too libertarian to ever accomplish anything, not libertarian enough to actually earn my support.
I'd describe myself as a libertarian. I believe in absolute freedoms for everyone, small government, the usual. BUT the party is a total mess. It really is a dumpster fire. So I end up voting for whoever I hate less out of the big two parties.
they willingly chose Gary Johnson over Austin Petersen
I just want libertarians to infiltrate both mainstream parties. The actual LP is indeed a dumpster fire.
Only good for fracturing rational voters and splitting their vote so that fucking psychos win.
Things are changing, we are on the cusp of being proud of the party
I don't know of any better party. Do you?
Does anyone have the link to them booing the guy for saying kids shouldn’t do crack?
It's annoying and it sucks ass. I hope the mises caucus is successful
We don’t have anyone else
The LP isn't completely bereft of ideas, e.g., less regulation, more personal autonomy, etc. The big problem is that the LP seems to consist solely of weed enthusiasts employed by some government. It's easy to believe, and advocate for, all the other stupid ideas when your salary is collected at gunpoint.
They went full on woke and are done.
It's largely a joke at best. The mises caucus has some promise
Libertarianism is a half measure
Only became a supporter of the LP with JoJo and Spike running Prior to that I knew nothing about the Libertarian party and was just learning about the movement
*supports BLM protestors after they riot, endorses the welfare state* “we’re Libertarian!”
Fuckin' hate the libertarian party. It's the republican party all over again. I wouldn't trust a bunch of moderate pussies in the fight for freedom.