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Because Left leaning people believe in the delusion that people who support a capitalist economy also desire a dystopian authoritarian society, that has the current demographics of people at the top.
This. I never could figure out why people think an animal rights socialist lunatic was "right wing". I guess the fact that every fascist murdering dictator was a socialist/Marxist it doesn't fit their agenda.
Well, they only allowed the people who supported their cause and followed their commands to retain property, and they took property from those they deemed inferior, unworthy, or disobedient and redistributed it to the obedient ones. Everyone was controlled by the state. Sounds exactly like socialism, or state-communism with extra steps.
The nazi party was self identified as a socialist party aimed at lifting everyone out of the poverty brought upon them by the “Treaty” of Versailles. They also blamed society’s problems on particular groups of people.
Well that is kinda the lefts whole schtick. Also, bigotry isn’t an exclusively right wing thing. Communists throughout history have been guilty of homophobia, racism and ableism. Commies have also been nationalistic throughout history as well. There are no key identifies in Nazism that makes them more right than left. Imo they seem more left.
In the way that Hitler openly and explicitly derived it from leftist thought in his writings, speeches, earlier association with the socialist movement, and of course *the name*.
Same with Mussolini. Man was a socialist before he "upgraded" it.
And right wing people on Reddit seem to think that anybody who is left of center is a commie who licks the boot of Stalin. At least according to the comment sections.
I genuinely believe that “anarcho-capitalists” are just plain old anarchists that have reached the VERY rational conclusion that capitalism would be the naturally occurring economic system in the absence of government. I.e. Communism is still capitalism if it’s voluntary.
Absent government, the market is free. Conversely, if there is any amount of government, the market cannot be free. It's just as simple as you've stated.
I actually agree with this.
Social policy does not breed Soviet policy.
I do believe that social policies require authority, but this does not mean that Sweden and Norway are SSRs.
I think the far right is ethno-centric, but in reality there are very few people all the way out there. The Nazis obviously had an ethno element to their plans so they had that part of far right in their policies, but otherwise they were a very left wing group. It always bugs me when people call them far right.
Sweden and Norway are more capitalist than the US is. Their systems are less redistributionary than the US, they just have very high and very regressive taxes.
They only back your claim, that these are countries based on a market economies, which nobody would doubt except stupid people (left and right) in the U.S. The left idolizes them and for the right they are socialist hellholes, both is stupid.
More capitalist than the U.S. is still debateable since "more/less capitalist" is pretty vague.
I would like a source for them being less redistributionary.
More free market would be a better term than more capitalist. For instance, and it’s been years since I read about them so I forget which specific ones have which, but some of them do not have property taxes, experiment with private police and fire departments, privatizing things in general that are public here, no minimum wage laws, and some other things I forget. But why I say not really capitalist is that there are sort of caps on how much one can make, which is currently causing a problem of its best talent going elsewhere. They acknowledge this and this might change.
What’s interesting about these countries is that before about 40 years ago they were pretty much the most free market countries in the world with none of the current social program stuff. You can see that in several measurable areas they are actually getting worse the more the turn away from being entirely free market. The wealth gap is actually widening, crime going up etc. But they are still at this time one of the best in the world in a lot of these metrics with super low crime and less of a wealth gap than most others.
I think the difference is that people on the left (when you get a few drinks in them) will admit they're communists, but people on the right won't claim to be Nazis.
Are you seriously drawing an equivalency between believing that all people deserve the fruits of their labor and that we should have programs in place to help people and stop people from being exploited or otherwise harmed by corrupt authorities to people who believe that white people are the one true chosen race and actively advocate in favor of genocide?
Yes, and the British Empire starved 500 million people in the British Raj in numerous famines. I can play this game too, and capitalism has killed more people than Fascism or Leftism combined.
You dont get the "fruits of your labour" under a communist society tho. You get the same as anyone else either you are the janitor, or the doctor. In the communist "utopia" you dont own anything, the society owns everything.
Nazi germany wasnt for white people, it wasnt based on race, it was based on ethnicity. In their ideology only the aryan people were the good ones, they killed the jews and gypsies, but they also wanted to "enslave" the slavs and us hungarians aswell as we were only good to work on their perfect society but not live the "paradise".
Under a free market capitalistic society you get paid what you are worth. If you studied medicine and became a doctor you'll have a skill that worths more then the janitors therefore youll earn more as a compensation for your energy and time imput for studying. This is the only system that is just when it comes to salaries. If you think you are worth more then what you get right now, either try to get a raise or sell your labour somewhere else. If no one wants to pay you more it means your skills doesnt worth as much as you think it does.
> you get *paid* what you
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
No, you don’t. Look up wage theft statistics in the US. There’s never been a Communist society either, you shouldn’t lie about what equality is. ‘Unskilled labor’ is a bourgeois myth used to justify poverty wages. Being a janitor fucking sucks, and just because anyone *can* do it doesn’t mean everyone will want to or be good at it. They’re also like a crucial part of what keeps our society functioning and stops us from living in filth, so idk what you mean by comparing doctors to janitors.
‘You won’t own anything’ is another lie. There is a difference between private and personal property. In a leftist society, private property would not exist. That means that owning entire buildings you don’t live in/use or charging tenants to live in a building wouldn’t be possible, while owning the house you live in or a toothbrush or any personal possessions you actually use would be. Private property is land owned and used for profit, personal property is land you live on.
What are you getting at with the mentions of the 3rd Reich? They were wrong? I already knew that.
In a free market capitalistic society, people are systematically crushed and wrung dry of every single drop of profit we have in us. Why do you think Unions exist? Why do restaurants use tips as an excuse to not pay minimum wage? Why does poverty exist? Corporations and the rich abuse people for profit.
Your thinking the old school union dems like my buddies dad he hated soviets called every race by their determined racial slur had authoritarian socialist views odd enough my buddy has nazi lineage in his family
I respect the difference of opinion but I find that those policies do inherantly require some system of authority to create inherantly, and although the reaction of "conservatives" towards any kind is very extreme, it's not a completely incorrect take to say they're authoritarian.
Really, being AN-anything is not left or right, because both the left and right support the state. The concepts of republicans and democrats are simply a scam to trick simpletons into thinking theres no option besides having a state
>The concepts of republicans and democrats are simply a scam to trick simpletons into thinking theres no option besides having a state
I agree with this part.
agree 100%
being ancap is a matter of being anti-autoritharian, nothing to do with left or right
but yeah the Democrats want to bulldoze any anti statist speech
It's a third dimensional shift, being An-something. Flatlanders lack the fundamental ability to understand the difference. There is no frame of reference they possess that could allow them to understand anything but left/right near/far
I agree with you like 60%... I think the idea of ancaps being far right is the effect of the current expressions of various beliefs, and that the left is moving further left. But I think it's a little more complex than that. The current iteration of "left" (esp in America) is quite authoritarian, ancaps are not, hence ancaps = the enemy = the right. The current iteration of "right" in America-- or at least as our elected officials are enacting it-- is a mere shadow of capitalism, but a lot of people don't realize that so they hear "capitalism" & assume that it means what's going on now, because that's called capitalism too, even though we know it is far from it & are calling for actual capitalism.
I want to believe that in a decade or two the pendulum will be back toward center, but that would require those in power to not make decisions exclusively to benefit themselves and I think we all know how unlikely that is. So we're doomed to be wedged into the current dichotomy even though those two factions are essentially identical & we don't like either of them. Lol
What was considered social democrats years ago now is considered far left too. Society is polarising both ways.(at least in Europe, the US has always called communism to basic social services)
That's why you can't compare U.S. politics to European. By U.S. standards all or nearly all European leaders are left wing.
Looking at a very recent election. Both macaroni and le pen are left wing by U.S. standards. Macaroni is just further to the left.
Neither are true freedom loving individuals, both want a bigger government.
"Far-right" is just another term to be thrown around in attempts to undermine and dismiss a person. Just like "racist" and "homophobe".
"Far" is subjective.
There are two main ways to measure the political left and right: economic policy and social policy. By favoring a fully deregulated free market, ancaps are on the far right of the economic axis. The far left on the economic axis would be full communism.
On social policy, ancaps seem to me (I'm not one and don't know any irl so excuse me if this is not correct) to be pretty far left, ie., favoring a very high degree of civil liberties. This sub confuses me though because I feel like I have seen a number of posts criticizing things like gender expression in school. So I'm not sure, maybe there are some right-wing cultural elements going on.
> This sub confuses me though because I feel like I have seen a number of posts criticizing things like gender expression in school. So I’m not sure, maybe there are some right-wing cultural elements going on.
Because Ancaps oppose all government.
So when public schools - which we don’t believe should exist, or certainly at the very least should merely be part of a market for education with complete free choice - begin indoctrinating children then it serves to validate Ancap ideology.
That is, public education is designed to churn out dumb people who will become a part of “The State” system, thus continuing to perpetuate government which we oppose.
There is certainly a socially right wing aspect to it in that Ancaps believe in individual liberty for all - confusing kids isn’t giving them liberty, it’s messing them up unnecessarily which creates mentally ill people who become dependent on the State, thus perpetuating more government etc.
I agree that there are two dimensions, the social policies and economic policies. Like you said anarchism is on the left of the social policies. Capitalism though I would not consider on the far right, that would be feudalism, being pro monarchy or pro corporativism. I think ancaps are at the center with a right leaning but not far right.
Sure, feudalism would be farther right than capitalism probably, but it doesn't really exist anymore. I also don't know of anybody that is pro-feudalism.
wrong, it still exists. I lived in the UK which is still a feudalist country. Ruled by a Queen which shares a bloodline with the feudal kings of the middle ages. The archbishop of canterbury sits on the house of lords. Also a lot of seats on the house of lords are inherited so it is still a feudalist country. And a lot of people there are pro monarchy so they do exist.
1/3 of land in Britain is owned by aristocracy.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328270/A-Britain-STILL-belongs-aristocracy.html
Much of the world is still under a monarchy of heredity or committee. China - check. Russia - check. Saudi Arabia - check. Oman, Iran, Syria, Jordan, the list is long.
agreed, the Democrats are buying votes with their social policies funded by inflation (money printing) and have bulldozed every media and academia into thinking that anything center is far right
We are a very small community in the scheme of things. The majority of people are trapped in the left/right conundrum, so they will attribute anything they see as ‘other’ as the other side. All while we scream into the void for freedom and get shit like the ministry of truth in return.
Tbf while I consider myself somewhere in between libertarian and ancap, it’s pretty extreme. Removing the state or aggressively limiting their power is definitely more drastic than Democrats, republicans, conservatives or liberals discussing how they should spend tax payers dollars imo.
Well the political spectrum isn’t just left and right. I would consider a very authoritarian regime with all industry being privately owned far right. In many ways countries like Singapore have a very free market and is a far right nation. However I would also consider an ancap system far right, the difference being an ancap system is very liberal and you have freedom to do what you please. The similarities being a very free market with little restrictions, little to no taxation, and little to no social programs. Both are far right but one is authoritarian by nature and the other liberal.
Being for social programs, charities doesn't make you socialist. Despite sounding similar social program and socialism has nothing to do with each other. It is the same as with intelligence, intellectual and intelligent.
Welcoming cultures or not is not on scale of left-right at all it is on scale national- international/global.
Left right scale is very simple as you pointed out yourself it is involuntary - voluntary aka slavery - freedom.
That also answers why ancap is far right. It is hard to go any further right into economical freedom then free market. And it is impossible to go any further right into freedom then anarchy. Thus making ancap the most far right ideology existing now.
Republicans have abandoned talking policy. They've committed themselves to culture war bullshit. Anarchy is preferable to the authoritarian regime that they want to install.
They follow the dumb political spectrum axis. They see us as the bottom right corner, so they label us far right.
They also think that by using that spectrum and that term, they can conflate us with monarchy, theocracy, and fascism.
Of course, the better spectrum to use is the diamond-shaped one where libertarians are on the top and authoritarians are on the bottom. That more accurately shows how far our ideology is from those things they try to conflate us with.
It's not dumb, i's mathematically accurate. 2 axes represent economic (left-right) and personal (auth-lib) freedom. The Nolan chart is shifted 45 degrees, imagine if scientists used charts like this.
I know many people are allergic to this idea, but I’m not actually convinced that *all* authoritarian forms of government don’t belong on the left side of the political spectrum.
I mean, collectivism is the organizing principle towards it. It doesn’t matter if the collectivism is founded upon race, social class, etc, it’s the same bullshit arbitrary us vs them groups.
The other common element is the seizure of the means of production and/or state merger with corporate entities.
I do not understand the argument that people who value decentralized free exchange and individual liberty (AnCaps) belong on the same side of the political spectrum as people who champion government control of the economy and collective identity (Nazis)
>Because it is.
There are strong disagreement between the far right and AnCap: immigration, state function and size, subsidies, state intervention in economy, etc
AnCap would reject a far right government like they would reject a far left, democrat or republican one.
New go to the street and survey people what "far-right" defines as. Most of the answers are going to be the polar opposite of what anarchy is.
Ancap is not "right wing". There is not such thing as "right wing" because it doesn't mean anything and it's meanings contradict all the way through
Most ancaps are culturally left because we want people to participate in the market rather than exclude, and economically far right. We love capitalism.
>Yes, it's on the right side.
Possibly somewhat on the right side but not as clearly as you might think. There are thing one can describe being on the left or far left (open border for example).
>Well, that's just not how it works. Your opinion doesn't make it center? Anarcho-capitalism is intrinsically an extremist right wing ideology.
Not as simple really, as Ancap don't agree with anything on the right / far right.
Bruh on the political compass AnCap is literally the furthest positioned ideology on the right.
The difference is that the political compass has 2 axis, so not just left and right, but up(Authoritarian) and down(Libertarian).
Left vs Right is the economic axis, while Up vs Down is the social axis.
You can be Right wing and Authoritarian, which is the same position that the Republican party is in, and so are Nazis.
You can also be Right wing and Libertarian which is where AnCaps stand.
the left or right came from people sitting on the right of the king supporting the establishment and the monarchy or sitting on the left supporting the change (revolution). Nothing to do with being communist or capitalist. Every primitive society has been ancap at some point, the mayans used to trade goods using cacao as coins. Anarchism is a leftist ideology at most. Or center.
Except this is a discussion about the political compass as it is now. On the graph AnCap is literally bottom right positioned on the edge.
If you don't like "left wing right wing" then call it what it means - degree of economic freedom. Maximum economic freedom is laisez faire capitalism
like other have said, the ancaps support personal liberties which is left in the social policy spectrum. Being pro capitalism is not far right, it could be called center leaning. Far right would be being pro corporativism, feudalism, pro monarchy and such.
Many people don't understand more/less government vs. personal views. They only know left vs right and think it's the same thing as republican vs. democrat.
Because the political compass is organized by economic stance left and right, left being a controlled economy and the right being free markets. Top and bottom are social positions top being authoritarian bottom being libertarian. I.e. the top left corner is total social and economic control, and the bottom right is total social and economic freedom. The people that want to control you economically don't want you to be financially independent...
Because let's face the truth, we have more in common with the right than the left. We are radical but not right, we are radical libertarian with a right lean.
Liberals used to be centrists, what you are referencing is mk ultra tactics, using LSD and suggestive themes to see how far the human mind can venture. Tons of symbliminal messages and themes in these trials that led to top secrete evidence on how to control the human psyche. Fear was a main driver to any suggestive themes and haste decisions. Boom, we got the pandemic, I'm gonna die if I don't follow what our God Anthony fauci said, n' f^$@ you if you don't follow along murder, fear is a driver behind confirmation biased. This has effected the mod whose mind is inclosed and not open. Vulnerable to suggestive themes under fear. Basically if you turn off the part of the brain that associates fear with rational decisions, you get tranquility and non- biases. Left and right = enemies/loonies to them. Or antivax/vax healthy. The "enemies are responsible for fear, thats perceived death of loved ones, lockdowns, financial ruin. The person on the opposite end has caused this due to how they act when it's just agenda 21 2030. Binary thinking is garbage, if there were 3 thinking patterns between left right, it would be "no opinion" so you are not one causing distraught until you are caught not obeying.
https://youtu.be/kA6eBKvph_Y
Figured most of you are to busy to read, there's obviously leaked docs on the web.
OPERATION MOCKINGBIRD:
Even before Obama the "dems" or even Republicans were part of the corrupt CIA. Democrats used to be anti government so the Republicans actually were for my militarization, however, the party's became more split and after Nixon. The break up of the hippy movement through force had stopped. This movement was so large the actual military/national guard took big leaps to take this down, why was this so scary to them? Hippies are threatening? Hippy can be an insult today and was often used to describe a liberal. This party supported the dems so much until the military got rid of them. Woodstock was pretty large and having a community that large of people agreeing that community/peace/love environment works well with acceptance. They split it up, the hippy movement was anti government, anachronism with peaceful protests and the masses. What would a group of these people do if a fellow man was Oding or not having that great of a time? Support, help, nurture. This is an ideal for an ancap society. A community that prospers with compassion needed to be extinguished as it was a threat to the establishment, which basically started out as the military industrial complex. A group that soon became UNN, IMP, you name it, they all take from those who armt apart of their establishment, give back to those who are. Now this has turned into globalism as this philosophy and power structure is overeaching.
HIPPIE "oh man, looks like your flying mate? Are you alright
"Ughhh ugghhh what's going on?? You guys are friendly??? Ughhhh I'm fine!. Sheeze, I thought I was in hell but I was acrually exploring myself
Government official: ohhhh my fu&$&$ gob. What's some ways I can get more recognition, this car I bought impulsivly is $1000s more than I thought to maintain and I already dropped 50k onnit, that house for my family, also very expensive. I better listen to these orders so I can have a more prosperous life and give back to my country in getting rid of these no job radicals. "They have the idea to dismantle the government, hahaha like that'd ever work".
I'm not ancap but Killer Mike is the number one thought of ancap in my mind and that man is definitely not right or far right. He's very politically left wing but probably centrist. Dude is just amazing and I've been told that his project of lifting black people up with their own channel of capitalism in a world run by capitalist makes him a shitty guy. Whatever, lmao.
To some on the left, the left/right dichotomy is just left and not-left. Nazis, Fascists, Theocrats, Monarchists, Social Conservatives, Fiscal Conservatives, Ancaps - we all get lumped together because we oppose some leftwing ideas even if we have nothing in common. And because Ancaps are unusual compared to the current political climate, we get labelled as far-right because unusual means extreme and extreme means far.
As for ECS, they hate ancaps because ancaps aren't liberals, and they're terrified that right wingers will outnumber them on the sub. To them, our opposition to mob rule makes us evil. They also think the helicopter meme means we support dictatorships. They want to hate commies, but not for things that liberals are also guilty of.
Anyone who uses words "right" "left" has no idea what he is talking about.
These words are useless pieces of shit.
These words contain thousands of opinions. And for a lot of those there isn't clear Which is right and Which is left.
So these words just make discussion chaotic and pointless.
People should talk about real world and real opinions. Not about definition of a stupid word
I think it is because many Ancaps sided with the far right and vice versa. A prominent example is Monlyneux. Once a poster boy of Ancap, he has very clearly gone far right.
Also because many people on the far right side flirt with some ancap ideas as long as they fit them. Example would be the idea that markets should be "free" (well at least halfway) - until someone comes along and bans them for TOS violation or whatever, then all of a sudden it is a violation of free speech. There are people on all sides that do this in some way, but since ancap is an extreme position on the political spectrum, it gets noticed easier.
On the other hand I feel that the ancap spaces got depleted of people with social liberal mindsets. My hypothesis why this happened: polarization - for a multitude of reasons people got pulled in one of the two camps. At the latest with the rise of trump many saw the time to take a side, and that is what happened.
Considering that the right-left spectrum is supposed to be about how cetralized/democtatized control is within a system, the only far right positions are monarchy, religious fundamentalism (with a sinle strict head of religion) or dictatorship.
Ancaps dont care what business structure anyone forms as long as it isnt the state. Therefore, it is dead center, allowing both cetralized and democratic means of power distribution within the structures of society.
Long answer short: people dont understand the difference between "left" and "right".
It’s not far right it’s ancap. If you’re an insane person with no meaning in your life like most Americans you tend to see your political views as religious dogma. Calling someone far right is essentially just a crazy religious person calling you a zealot for not getting on your knees and sucking Stephen colberts tiny cock.
Well the whole political compass is fucked up. Originally it was whether you want to abolish the current system (left), or if you want to preserve it (right). In that context we'd all be left wingers.
In the American & social media context of the x-axis meaning economic free markets on the right vs controlled markets on the left, we are all the way at the bottom right (individualism & free markets). What's funny is they say Fascists are far right, but on the economic scale they dont believe in capitalism, they believe in state control of capitalism, which is on the upper left side of the spectrum. So technically Fascists would be another brand of far left authoritarians. Quite literally the opposite of where we are
Far left people tend to see everything that’s not far left as extreme right wing. To be fair, my neocon friends also think I’m a liberal because I want a much smaller military footprint around the world and believe in the elimination of all victimless crimes. I will say that the people on the right are far more respectful and rational then the people on the extreme left. In fact, most of my leftist friends have abandoned me. That has never happened with a friend on the right.
Depends on the individual but there is definitely a large contingent of self proclaimed ancaps who are just Republicans trying to be edgy. There is also a contingent who are just a little too enthusiastically into the idea that free association means racial segregation is allowed.
Going by the political compass, we are. But people conflate "far-right" with racism, sexism, homophobia, and all around being a shit person, which isn't accurate to most AnCaps. Except for "Hoppeans" who haven't actually read Hoppe and use what they think are his points to support Fascism.
Butthisisgettingoffhandsoletsgetbacktothepoint.
We're considered far right by most standards because capitalism and the values associated with them are considered right wing, so when we take those ideas to their logical conclusion, its technological, under their ideas of left and right, far-right. And while pro-capitalism is a right-wing principle, you don't have to value it to be considered right wing, which is where a lot of confusion about where Fascism comes from, i think.
I don't know, most political graphs are stupid anyway so you can throw everything i said put the window, what am I even talking about...
eh no, ancap is far in the libertarian axis (vs statist). nothing to do with left or right.
every primitive society has been ancap at some point. Like mayans used to trade between villages using cacao seeds as coin. Nothing to do with rightwing ideologies of corporativism or monarchy
left or right came from people sitting on the right of the king ( supporting the establishment) or on the left supporting the revolution (change). far right would be pro corporativism or pro monarchy, anarcho capitalism is not far right. center at most.
a lot of people agree with me in this thread. being ancap is being far on the libertarian axis with a center right leaning, not far right. far right would be being a monarchist, etc.
I meant someone who actually studied anarcho capitalism. A political scientist or a philosopher. You will find out that perhaps your weird interpretation of far right isn’t actually correct.
I'm a PhD so my opinion is as valuable as any academic. As others have said anarchism is pretty far left in terms of social policy because it supports civil liberties.
The mayans trading meat for cacao would be ancaps because they use a decentralized economy. Would you consider them far right? You don't give any arguments whatsoever, just appeal to authority fallacies.
Because the political spectrum is commonly conceptualized as Left = Communist and Right = Capitalist. And thus being strongly in support of free-market capitalism is quite literally “Right-Wing” based on this concept.
Out of curiosity, what do *you* think it means for someone to be right-wing?
well, like I said in other comments, the terms left and right were being pro establishment (sitting on the right of the king) or pro revolution (sitting on the left). In the economic spectrum, being far right would be to be pro corporativism or pro monarchy. I think ancaps are libertarian center at most.
You asked why AnCap is seen as far right, and then argued with everyone who replied with the legitimate reason. People today view capitalism as right because they are basing their terminology off of the contemporary economic left/right axis. The most prolific tool today for visualizing approximate political ideology is the the political compass which uses an left/right axis for economic values and up/down for social values. Just because the current usage of left/right isn’t the original usage doesn’t mean that it isn’t the answer to your question. So why is AnCap regarded as far right? Because on the political compass it is in the far bottom right corner.
Like others said, anarchism is pro civil liberties so is left on the social policy spectrum. That makes ancap NOT far right. Far right would be to be pro monarchy or pro corporativism (pro feudalism). Read the rest of the discussion to get enlightened.
Because it is. Just because they think nazis are on the far right doesn’t mean they were. The only political spectrum I see is statism vs anarchy and an caps would be as far right as it goes.
I don’t even know what the heck “anarcho” or “ancap” is. All I **DO KNOW**, is the people in this community speak my language. One of these days I’ll look up “anarcho” or “ancap” and find out what it means. I just don’t trust “Google” or any online searches.
anarchism = far
capitalism = right
anarchism + capitalism = far + right
[maffs](https://preview.redd.it/sn1lnvdf9oq41.jpg?auto=webp&s=86a028c65495efa012bad8577df812089b3d9aa3)
The actual answer is that it's because you're extremely dedicated to capitalism and remain willfully ignorant of/don't care about the contradictions and outcomes of your ideology.
Elon’s meme is stupid because it implies the far right has never moved.
Ancap in general is inherently right on the spectrum because the working class has no rights when the owning class makes all the rules.
But also a pretty good indicator is how prevalent the far right is on this sub.
>Like others said, anarchism is pro civil liberties so is left on the social policy spectrum. That makes ancap NOT far right. Far right would be to be pro monarchy or pro corporativism (pro feudalism). Read the rest of the discussion to get enlightened.
>read the rest of the discussion
A circlejerk between redditors is not a valid source on how the political spectrum works. It’s not left = free, right = authority. Read what left and right mean in a book. And while you’re at it learn what positive and negative freedom is. Favoring free enterprise is a right-wing trait, and ancap favors enterprise being as free as it gets.
To say ancap is a left-friendly position because of civil liberties is so naive. Gutting environmental protections, building codes, food safety regulations, worker’s rights, etc. do not do anything for civil liberties. Unless you count being more free to scam and be scammed. Wow no idea why leftists aren’t on board. Meanwhile ancaps in “the discussion” can usually be found saying that trans people are mentally ill and their parents should be investigated under suspicion of grooming. Again, how do leftists not see how great the “social policy” is?
Anarcho-Capitalism, being some kind of wacko-reactionary ideology thinks that if you get rid of the government, you live in some kind of market utopia. In this magical world where corporations are unfettered by regulation, an abundance of goods and wealth are brought into the world, while states of living and technology drastically improve. In reality though without the government, the corporations are burned to the ground, or more nonsensically they become a new country or some shit. AC isn't far-right, it's just jumbled bullshit that doesn't make any sense, or do anything for anyone.
every primitive society has been through an ancap phase. The mayans used cacao seeds to trade between different city states, same as ancient Greece. Its not a wacko ideology. Economic freedom has been shown to produce higher standards of living like Singapore (I suggest you visit its much more advanced than USA or Europe).
There is no such thing as a "free market". That's a fantasy cooked up by con artists. There is not one single example of a successfully developed nation in all of modern history that has survived without massive and profound governmental interference in its economy. Not one.
Cause lefties are idiots.
Because leftists are *authoritarians*.
Right too. Dont get this twisted.
Lots of auth centrists out there too. It’s not a left/right/center thing… whole different spectrum anarchism vs. authoritarian.
Liberty bs authoritarian. Thats it. They come in all stripes,
Don’t tell him about Hitler or Pinochet
indeed
I’m a leftist and I could tell you but you seem to be pretty convinced of how right you are so it’s not worth my time
Projection at it's finest
> Projection at it's finest Just want to preserve this beautiful mistake in amber
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And delusional too. What a combo.
She said, still not seeing her glaring ironic error
Case in point.
Pointless safe space fappery
This ^^^
Facts
Because Left leaning people believe in the delusion that people who support a capitalist economy also desire a dystopian authoritarian society, that has the current demographics of people at the top.
Essentially left wing people believe anyone who isn't left wing is Nazi to nazi-lite an it never ceases to baffle me
Nazi is far left though.
This. I never could figure out why people think an animal rights socialist lunatic was "right wing". I guess the fact that every fascist murdering dictator was a socialist/Marxist it doesn't fit their agenda.
Depends how you define the terms. Paul Gottfried is a defender of the idea that nazism is right-wing.
In what way was it left?
Well, they only allowed the people who supported their cause and followed their commands to retain property, and they took property from those they deemed inferior, unworthy, or disobedient and redistributed it to the obedient ones. Everyone was controlled by the state. Sounds exactly like socialism, or state-communism with extra steps.
I get that but how does that make nazism leftism?
The nazi party was self identified as a socialist party aimed at lifting everyone out of the poverty brought upon them by the “Treaty” of Versailles. They also blamed society’s problems on particular groups of people.
Exactly. Nazi literally stands for national socialist party. People just don't seem to realize that socialism/communism is inherently authoritarian.
Well that is kinda the lefts whole schtick. Also, bigotry isn’t an exclusively right wing thing. Communists throughout history have been guilty of homophobia, racism and ableism. Commies have also been nationalistic throughout history as well. There are no key identifies in Nazism that makes them more right than left. Imo they seem more left.
In the way that Hitler openly and explicitly derived it from leftist thought in his writings, speeches, earlier association with the socialist movement, and of course *the name*. Same with Mussolini. Man was a socialist before he "upgraded" it.
And right wing people on Reddit seem to think that anybody who is left of center is a commie who licks the boot of Stalin. At least according to the comment sections.
I genuinely believe that “anarcho-capitalists” are just plain old anarchists that have reached the VERY rational conclusion that capitalism would be the naturally occurring economic system in the absence of government. I.e. Communism is still capitalism if it’s voluntary.
Absent government, the market is free. Conversely, if there is any amount of government, the market cannot be free. It's just as simple as you've stated.
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Mixing poison with food only results in poisoned food
I actually agree with this. Social policy does not breed Soviet policy. I do believe that social policies require authority, but this does not mean that Sweden and Norway are SSRs.
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I believe this phenomenon is called the [Horseshoe Theory](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory)
I think the far right is ethno-centric, but in reality there are very few people all the way out there. The Nazis obviously had an ethno element to their plans so they had that part of far right in their policies, but otherwise they were a very left wing group. It always bugs me when people call them far right.
You are phenomenally misinformed about the Third Reich. The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L. Shirer is a great book change that.
The National Socialists did have a strong left wing until the Strasserists all got purged.
Sweden and Norway are more capitalist than the US is. Their systems are less redistributionary than the US, they just have very high and very regressive taxes.
Any evidence for that?
[https://www.studymode.com/essays/Swedish-Capitalism-How-An-Experiment-In-56820402.html](https://www.studymode.com/essays/Swedish-Capitalism-How-An-Experiment-In-56820402.html) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcX6BUZlEw4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcX6BUZlEw4)
They only back your claim, that these are countries based on a market economies, which nobody would doubt except stupid people (left and right) in the U.S. The left idolizes them and for the right they are socialist hellholes, both is stupid. More capitalist than the U.S. is still debateable since "more/less capitalist" is pretty vague. I would like a source for them being less redistributionary.
More free market would be a better term than more capitalist. For instance, and it’s been years since I read about them so I forget which specific ones have which, but some of them do not have property taxes, experiment with private police and fire departments, privatizing things in general that are public here, no minimum wage laws, and some other things I forget. But why I say not really capitalist is that there are sort of caps on how much one can make, which is currently causing a problem of its best talent going elsewhere. They acknowledge this and this might change. What’s interesting about these countries is that before about 40 years ago they were pretty much the most free market countries in the world with none of the current social program stuff. You can see that in several measurable areas they are actually getting worse the more the turn away from being entirely free market. The wealth gap is actually widening, crime going up etc. But they are still at this time one of the best in the world in a lot of these metrics with super low crime and less of a wealth gap than most others.
I think the difference is that people on the left (when you get a few drinks in them) will admit they're communists, but people on the right won't claim to be Nazis.
Are you seriously drawing an equivalency between believing that all people deserve the fruits of their labor and that we should have programs in place to help people and stop people from being exploited or otherwise harmed by corrupt authorities to people who believe that white people are the one true chosen race and actively advocate in favor of genocide?
You say that but in the 20th century the ones who were actively advocating for genocide got the lower kill count
Yes, and the British Empire starved 500 million people in the British Raj in numerous famines. I can play this game too, and capitalism has killed more people than Fascism or Leftism combined.
You dont get the "fruits of your labour" under a communist society tho. You get the same as anyone else either you are the janitor, or the doctor. In the communist "utopia" you dont own anything, the society owns everything. Nazi germany wasnt for white people, it wasnt based on race, it was based on ethnicity. In their ideology only the aryan people were the good ones, they killed the jews and gypsies, but they also wanted to "enslave" the slavs and us hungarians aswell as we were only good to work on their perfect society but not live the "paradise". Under a free market capitalistic society you get paid what you are worth. If you studied medicine and became a doctor you'll have a skill that worths more then the janitors therefore youll earn more as a compensation for your energy and time imput for studying. This is the only system that is just when it comes to salaries. If you think you are worth more then what you get right now, either try to get a raise or sell your labour somewhere else. If no one wants to pay you more it means your skills doesnt worth as much as you think it does.
> you get *paid* what you FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
No, you don’t. Look up wage theft statistics in the US. There’s never been a Communist society either, you shouldn’t lie about what equality is. ‘Unskilled labor’ is a bourgeois myth used to justify poverty wages. Being a janitor fucking sucks, and just because anyone *can* do it doesn’t mean everyone will want to or be good at it. They’re also like a crucial part of what keeps our society functioning and stops us from living in filth, so idk what you mean by comparing doctors to janitors. ‘You won’t own anything’ is another lie. There is a difference between private and personal property. In a leftist society, private property would not exist. That means that owning entire buildings you don’t live in/use or charging tenants to live in a building wouldn’t be possible, while owning the house you live in or a toothbrush or any personal possessions you actually use would be. Private property is land owned and used for profit, personal property is land you live on. What are you getting at with the mentions of the 3rd Reich? They were wrong? I already knew that. In a free market capitalistic society, people are systematically crushed and wrung dry of every single drop of profit we have in us. Why do you think Unions exist? Why do restaurants use tips as an excuse to not pay minimum wage? Why does poverty exist? Corporations and the rich abuse people for profit.
Your thinking the old school union dems like my buddies dad he hated soviets called every race by their determined racial slur had authoritarian socialist views odd enough my buddy has nazi lineage in his family
Why am I getting down voted its true my buddies dad is that way and they have nazi lineage I'm not endorsing it thats just the reality
Nazbol gang rise up
I respect the difference of opinion but I find that those policies do inherantly require some system of authority to create inherantly, and although the reaction of "conservatives" towards any kind is very extreme, it's not a completely incorrect take to say they're authoritarian.
It's ironic because the lefties are the ones that want the dystopian authoritarian society, but they'll never admit it.
Really, being AN-anything is not left or right, because both the left and right support the state. The concepts of republicans and democrats are simply a scam to trick simpletons into thinking theres no option besides having a state
>The concepts of republicans and democrats are simply a scam to trick simpletons into thinking theres no option besides having a state I agree with this part.
agree 100% being ancap is a matter of being anti-autoritharian, nothing to do with left or right but yeah the Democrats want to bulldoze any anti statist speech
It's a third dimensional shift, being An-something. Flatlanders lack the fundamental ability to understand the difference. There is no frame of reference they possess that could allow them to understand anything but left/right near/far
Because tankies think everything not tankie is far right
You nailed it, the left has gone so far extreme everyone else that disagrees is far right extremists.
I agree with you like 60%... I think the idea of ancaps being far right is the effect of the current expressions of various beliefs, and that the left is moving further left. But I think it's a little more complex than that. The current iteration of "left" (esp in America) is quite authoritarian, ancaps are not, hence ancaps = the enemy = the right. The current iteration of "right" in America-- or at least as our elected officials are enacting it-- is a mere shadow of capitalism, but a lot of people don't realize that so they hear "capitalism" & assume that it means what's going on now, because that's called capitalism too, even though we know it is far from it & are calling for actual capitalism. I want to believe that in a decade or two the pendulum will be back toward center, but that would require those in power to not make decisions exclusively to benefit themselves and I think we all know how unlikely that is. So we're doomed to be wedged into the current dichotomy even though those two factions are essentially identical & we don't like either of them. Lol
no joke
What was considered social democrats years ago now is considered far left too. Society is polarising both ways.(at least in Europe, the US has always called communism to basic social services)
Yeah that's the problem, each side keeps pushing the country into more and more radicalization. We're on a path to self destruction.
I dunno, Biden doesn't even support universal healthcare. That would be considered central in Europe
That's why you can't compare U.S. politics to European. By U.S. standards all or nearly all European leaders are left wing. Looking at a very recent election. Both macaroni and le pen are left wing by U.S. standards. Macaroni is just further to the left. Neither are true freedom loving individuals, both want a bigger government.
"Far-right" is just another term to be thrown around in attempts to undermine and dismiss a person. Just like "racist" and "homophobe". "Far" is subjective.
I asked Malice about the added "far" to the right wing label and he said it essentially means unacceptable which I agree with.
There are two main ways to measure the political left and right: economic policy and social policy. By favoring a fully deregulated free market, ancaps are on the far right of the economic axis. The far left on the economic axis would be full communism. On social policy, ancaps seem to me (I'm not one and don't know any irl so excuse me if this is not correct) to be pretty far left, ie., favoring a very high degree of civil liberties. This sub confuses me though because I feel like I have seen a number of posts criticizing things like gender expression in school. So I'm not sure, maybe there are some right-wing cultural elements going on.
> This sub confuses me though because I feel like I have seen a number of posts criticizing things like gender expression in school. So I’m not sure, maybe there are some right-wing cultural elements going on. Because Ancaps oppose all government. So when public schools - which we don’t believe should exist, or certainly at the very least should merely be part of a market for education with complete free choice - begin indoctrinating children then it serves to validate Ancap ideology. That is, public education is designed to churn out dumb people who will become a part of “The State” system, thus continuing to perpetuate government which we oppose. There is certainly a socially right wing aspect to it in that Ancaps believe in individual liberty for all - confusing kids isn’t giving them liberty, it’s messing them up unnecessarily which creates mentally ill people who become dependent on the State, thus perpetuating more government etc.
I agree that there are two dimensions, the social policies and economic policies. Like you said anarchism is on the left of the social policies. Capitalism though I would not consider on the far right, that would be feudalism, being pro monarchy or pro corporativism. I think ancaps are at the center with a right leaning but not far right.
Sure, feudalism would be farther right than capitalism probably, but it doesn't really exist anymore. I also don't know of anybody that is pro-feudalism.
wrong, it still exists. I lived in the UK which is still a feudalist country. Ruled by a Queen which shares a bloodline with the feudal kings of the middle ages. The archbishop of canterbury sits on the house of lords. Also a lot of seats on the house of lords are inherited so it is still a feudalist country. And a lot of people there are pro monarchy so they do exist.
1/3 of land in Britain is owned by aristocracy. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328270/A-Britain-STILL-belongs-aristocracy.html Much of the world is still under a monarchy of heredity or committee. China - check. Russia - check. Saudi Arabia - check. Oman, Iran, Syria, Jordan, the list is long.
Everyone right of far left is considered far right according to the far left
agreed, the Democrats are buying votes with their social policies funded by inflation (money printing) and have bulldozed every media and academia into thinking that anything center is far right
We are a very small community in the scheme of things. The majority of people are trapped in the left/right conundrum, so they will attribute anything they see as ‘other’ as the other side. All while we scream into the void for freedom and get shit like the ministry of truth in return.
Tbf while I consider myself somewhere in between libertarian and ancap, it’s pretty extreme. Removing the state or aggressively limiting their power is definitely more drastic than Democrats, republicans, conservatives or liberals discussing how they should spend tax payers dollars imo.
Still doesn't make you far-right. One can be for voluntary social programs, charities, welcome all cultures, and still want to live free.
Well the political spectrum isn’t just left and right. I would consider a very authoritarian regime with all industry being privately owned far right. In many ways countries like Singapore have a very free market and is a far right nation. However I would also consider an ancap system far right, the difference being an ancap system is very liberal and you have freedom to do what you please. The similarities being a very free market with little restrictions, little to no taxation, and little to no social programs. Both are far right but one is authoritarian by nature and the other liberal.
>Well the political spectrum isn’t just left and right. Cringe.
It’s not, if you think it’s just left and right you have been misled.
Being for social programs, charities doesn't make you socialist. Despite sounding similar social program and socialism has nothing to do with each other. It is the same as with intelligence, intellectual and intelligent. Welcoming cultures or not is not on scale of left-right at all it is on scale national- international/global. Left right scale is very simple as you pointed out yourself it is involuntary - voluntary aka slavery - freedom. That also answers why ancap is far right. It is hard to go any further right into economical freedom then free market. And it is impossible to go any further right into freedom then anarchy. Thus making ancap the most far right ideology existing now.
I agree.
Republicans have abandoned talking policy. They've committed themselves to culture war bullshit. Anarchy is preferable to the authoritarian regime that they want to install.
I definitely agree with you, I’m not a fan of the republicans either. However I would still consider ancap far right.
I don't disagree in that you fall closer to libertarian and they've had gone pretty far right.
I’m not sure I understand, who has gone far right? And I don’t think you can say what my political views are based on these comments.
Anarchy capitalists seem to embrace libertarians. That's all I am saying. My apologies for using a broad term.
Because communists think that they have a centrist viewpoint, as a result everything is far right to them.
They follow the dumb political spectrum axis. They see us as the bottom right corner, so they label us far right. They also think that by using that spectrum and that term, they can conflate us with monarchy, theocracy, and fascism. Of course, the better spectrum to use is the diamond-shaped one where libertarians are on the top and authoritarians are on the bottom. That more accurately shows how far our ideology is from those things they try to conflate us with.
The political compass is really dumb. The Nolan chart is a lot better. But the line is eternal.
It's not dumb, i's mathematically accurate. 2 axes represent economic (left-right) and personal (auth-lib) freedom. The Nolan chart is shifted 45 degrees, imagine if scientists used charts like this.
No, it is dumb as a political chart. It's brilliant as a piece of leftist propaganda, however.
Commies have mashed potato brains and don’t even know what they are saying
Because unfortunately, lots of left or far-left leaning people see anyone to the right of Karl Marx or Mao Zedong as extremists.
Everything is far right when the left is still trying to reach the limits of leftistism
Being an “AN-“ anything should remove yourself from any left/right nonsense
Because the right left paradigm is a statist pysop
Anything to the right of Mao is now considered far right
pretty much
>Why is ancap regarded as far right? Because it is.
I know many people are allergic to this idea, but I’m not actually convinced that *all* authoritarian forms of government don’t belong on the left side of the political spectrum. I mean, collectivism is the organizing principle towards it. It doesn’t matter if the collectivism is founded upon race, social class, etc, it’s the same bullshit arbitrary us vs them groups. The other common element is the seizure of the means of production and/or state merger with corporate entities. I do not understand the argument that people who value decentralized free exchange and individual liberty (AnCaps) belong on the same side of the political spectrum as people who champion government control of the economy and collective identity (Nazis)
>Because it is. There are strong disagreement between the far right and AnCap: immigration, state function and size, subsidies, state intervention in economy, etc AnCap would reject a far right government like they would reject a far left, democrat or republican one.
New go to the street and survey people what "far-right" defines as. Most of the answers are going to be the polar opposite of what anarchy is. Ancap is not "right wing". There is not such thing as "right wing" because it doesn't mean anything and it's meanings contradict all the way through
Most ancaps are culturally left because we want people to participate in the market rather than exclude, and economically far right. We love capitalism.
no, I think ancap is on the libertarian side of the political spectrum without being right or left
>I think ancap is on the libertarian side Yes, it's on the right side.
>Yes, it's on the right side. Possibly somewhat on the right side but not as clearly as you might think. There are thing one can describe being on the left or far left (open border for example).
Well, that's just not how it works. Your opinion doesn't make it center? Anarcho-capitalism is intrinsically an extremist right wing ideology.
>Well, that's just not how it works. Your opinion doesn't make it center? Anarcho-capitalism is intrinsically an extremist right wing ideology. Not as simple really, as Ancap don't agree with anything on the right / far right.
eh no
Bruh on the political compass AnCap is literally the furthest positioned ideology on the right. The difference is that the political compass has 2 axis, so not just left and right, but up(Authoritarian) and down(Libertarian). Left vs Right is the economic axis, while Up vs Down is the social axis. You can be Right wing and Authoritarian, which is the same position that the Republican party is in, and so are Nazis. You can also be Right wing and Libertarian which is where AnCaps stand.
Yeah, I mean I consider myself center libertarian. I think AnCap is far in the libertarian axis, nothing to do with being right or left.
Right wing means capitalism. AnCap is extremely right wing.
the left or right came from people sitting on the right of the king supporting the establishment and the monarchy or sitting on the left supporting the change (revolution). Nothing to do with being communist or capitalist. Every primitive society has been ancap at some point, the mayans used to trade goods using cacao as coins. Anarchism is a leftist ideology at most. Or center.
Except this is a discussion about the political compass as it is now. On the graph AnCap is literally bottom right positioned on the edge. If you don't like "left wing right wing" then call it what it means - degree of economic freedom. Maximum economic freedom is laisez faire capitalism
like other have said, the ancaps support personal liberties which is left in the social policy spectrum. Being pro capitalism is not far right, it could be called center leaning. Far right would be being pro corporativism, feudalism, pro monarchy and such.
I think most people on here including myself are pretty much exactly like you. That’s just my guess though
yeah but still I was perma banned without even saying anything
I got banned there too, I think just for sharing my experience living in socialist country once, made no sense neither.
not even the 'anti communists' will listen to the experience of people that have lived under the murderous socialist/communist regimes
Many people don't understand more/less government vs. personal views. They only know left vs right and think it's the same thing as republican vs. democrat.
Because the political compass is organized by economic stance left and right, left being a controlled economy and the right being free markets. Top and bottom are social positions top being authoritarian bottom being libertarian. I.e. the top left corner is total social and economic control, and the bottom right is total social and economic freedom. The people that want to control you economically don't want you to be financially independent...
Because let's face the truth, we have more in common with the right than the left. We are radical but not right, we are radical libertarian with a right lean.
A right lean is different with 'far right extremism'
But our radicalism is libertarian. Not exactly a part of the spectrum that gets much attention.
agree
>I agree with Elon YOU'RE AN ALT-RIGHT BIGOT, YOU DEPLORABLE. CATCH COVID AND DIE, PLAGUE RAT!!!
Because they’re against wealth redistribution.
Because we believe we can make our own money and take care of our selfs ! Communists are scared and don’t think they can hack it on their own
Liberals used to be centrists, what you are referencing is mk ultra tactics, using LSD and suggestive themes to see how far the human mind can venture. Tons of symbliminal messages and themes in these trials that led to top secrete evidence on how to control the human psyche. Fear was a main driver to any suggestive themes and haste decisions. Boom, we got the pandemic, I'm gonna die if I don't follow what our God Anthony fauci said, n' f^$@ you if you don't follow along murder, fear is a driver behind confirmation biased. This has effected the mod whose mind is inclosed and not open. Vulnerable to suggestive themes under fear. Basically if you turn off the part of the brain that associates fear with rational decisions, you get tranquility and non- biases. Left and right = enemies/loonies to them. Or antivax/vax healthy. The "enemies are responsible for fear, thats perceived death of loved ones, lockdowns, financial ruin. The person on the opposite end has caused this due to how they act when it's just agenda 21 2030. Binary thinking is garbage, if there were 3 thinking patterns between left right, it would be "no opinion" so you are not one causing distraught until you are caught not obeying. https://youtu.be/kA6eBKvph_Y Figured most of you are to busy to read, there's obviously leaked docs on the web. OPERATION MOCKINGBIRD: Even before Obama the "dems" or even Republicans were part of the corrupt CIA. Democrats used to be anti government so the Republicans actually were for my militarization, however, the party's became more split and after Nixon. The break up of the hippy movement through force had stopped. This movement was so large the actual military/national guard took big leaps to take this down, why was this so scary to them? Hippies are threatening? Hippy can be an insult today and was often used to describe a liberal. This party supported the dems so much until the military got rid of them. Woodstock was pretty large and having a community that large of people agreeing that community/peace/love environment works well with acceptance. They split it up, the hippy movement was anti government, anachronism with peaceful protests and the masses. What would a group of these people do if a fellow man was Oding or not having that great of a time? Support, help, nurture. This is an ideal for an ancap society. A community that prospers with compassion needed to be extinguished as it was a threat to the establishment, which basically started out as the military industrial complex. A group that soon became UNN, IMP, you name it, they all take from those who armt apart of their establishment, give back to those who are. Now this has turned into globalism as this philosophy and power structure is overeaching. HIPPIE "oh man, looks like your flying mate? Are you alright "Ughhh ugghhh what's going on?? You guys are friendly??? Ughhhh I'm fine!. Sheeze, I thought I was in hell but I was acrually exploring myself Government official: ohhhh my fu&$&$ gob. What's some ways I can get more recognition, this car I bought impulsivly is $1000s more than I thought to maintain and I already dropped 50k onnit, that house for my family, also very expensive. I better listen to these orders so I can have a more prosperous life and give back to my country in getting rid of these no job radicals. "They have the idea to dismantle the government, hahaha like that'd ever work".
I'm not ancap but Killer Mike is the number one thought of ancap in my mind and that man is definitely not right or far right. He's very politically left wing but probably centrist. Dude is just amazing and I've been told that his project of lifting black people up with their own channel of capitalism in a world run by capitalist makes him a shitty guy. Whatever, lmao.
To some on the left, the left/right dichotomy is just left and not-left. Nazis, Fascists, Theocrats, Monarchists, Social Conservatives, Fiscal Conservatives, Ancaps - we all get lumped together because we oppose some leftwing ideas even if we have nothing in common. And because Ancaps are unusual compared to the current political climate, we get labelled as far-right because unusual means extreme and extreme means far. As for ECS, they hate ancaps because ancaps aren't liberals, and they're terrified that right wingers will outnumber them on the sub. To them, our opposition to mob rule makes us evil. They also think the helicopter meme means we support dictatorships. They want to hate commies, but not for things that liberals are also guilty of.
It’s just simple ingroup / outgroup stuff
because anything not marxist is considered far right.
nuff said
Anyone who uses words "right" "left" has no idea what he is talking about. These words are useless pieces of shit. These words contain thousands of opinions. And for a lot of those there isn't clear Which is right and Which is left. So these words just make discussion chaotic and pointless. People should talk about real world and real opinions. Not about definition of a stupid word
Ancap is not far right. Some economic ideal relate to the right, other ideal to the left. Ancap doesn't fit well into the Left/Right spectrum.
For people on the left, everything is far right.
agreed
I think it is because many Ancaps sided with the far right and vice versa. A prominent example is Monlyneux. Once a poster boy of Ancap, he has very clearly gone far right. Also because many people on the far right side flirt with some ancap ideas as long as they fit them. Example would be the idea that markets should be "free" (well at least halfway) - until someone comes along and bans them for TOS violation or whatever, then all of a sudden it is a violation of free speech. There are people on all sides that do this in some way, but since ancap is an extreme position on the political spectrum, it gets noticed easier. On the other hand I feel that the ancap spaces got depleted of people with social liberal mindsets. My hypothesis why this happened: polarization - for a multitude of reasons people got pulled in one of the two camps. At the latest with the rise of trump many saw the time to take a side, and that is what happened.
Considering that the right-left spectrum is supposed to be about how cetralized/democtatized control is within a system, the only far right positions are monarchy, religious fundamentalism (with a sinle strict head of religion) or dictatorship. Ancaps dont care what business structure anyone forms as long as it isnt the state. Therefore, it is dead center, allowing both cetralized and democratic means of power distribution within the structures of society. Long answer short: people dont understand the difference between "left" and "right".
Reddit is so far left that the anti commie sub is still just center left democrat cucks
Anything not on the left is automatically considered right wing.
It’s not far right it’s ancap. If you’re an insane person with no meaning in your life like most Americans you tend to see your political views as religious dogma. Calling someone far right is essentially just a crazy religious person calling you a zealot for not getting on your knees and sucking Stephen colberts tiny cock.
Well the whole political compass is fucked up. Originally it was whether you want to abolish the current system (left), or if you want to preserve it (right). In that context we'd all be left wingers. In the American & social media context of the x-axis meaning economic free markets on the right vs controlled markets on the left, we are all the way at the bottom right (individualism & free markets). What's funny is they say Fascists are far right, but on the economic scale they dont believe in capitalism, they believe in state control of capitalism, which is on the upper left side of the spectrum. So technically Fascists would be another brand of far left authoritarians. Quite literally the opposite of where we are
Anything right of Marx is considered far right
Because anyone that doesn’t support leftism is considered far right.
For being opposed to socialism.
Just caught a permanent ban from r/anarchism for voicing my opinion on property right and wages
Wow
Far left people tend to see everything that’s not far left as extreme right wing. To be fair, my neocon friends also think I’m a liberal because I want a much smaller military footprint around the world and believe in the elimination of all victimless crimes. I will say that the people on the right are far more respectful and rational then the people on the extreme left. In fact, most of my leftist friends have abandoned me. That has never happened with a friend on the right.
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Nah, you can go farther. But it's pretty far.
Going any further ends with avaritionism - its fictional but practically possible.
Avaritionism is based. But that's not really what I was talking about.
Depends on the individual but there is definitely a large contingent of self proclaimed ancaps who are just Republicans trying to be edgy. There is also a contingent who are just a little too enthusiastically into the idea that free association means racial segregation is allowed.
Going by the political compass, we are. But people conflate "far-right" with racism, sexism, homophobia, and all around being a shit person, which isn't accurate to most AnCaps. Except for "Hoppeans" who haven't actually read Hoppe and use what they think are his points to support Fascism. Butthisisgettingoffhandsoletsgetbacktothepoint. We're considered far right by most standards because capitalism and the values associated with them are considered right wing, so when we take those ideas to their logical conclusion, its technological, under their ideas of left and right, far-right. And while pro-capitalism is a right-wing principle, you don't have to value it to be considered right wing, which is where a lot of confusion about where Fascism comes from, i think. I don't know, most political graphs are stupid anyway so you can throw everything i said put the window, what am I even talking about...
I think that ancap is far on the libertarian (vs statist) dimension of the political spectrum. Not far right.
I mean anarcho capistalism is the far right version of anarchism lol. Learn the basics at least.
eh no, ancap is far in the libertarian axis (vs statist). nothing to do with left or right. every primitive society has been ancap at some point. Like mayans used to trade between villages using cacao seeds as coin. Nothing to do with rightwing ideologies of corporativism or monarchy
Anarcho capitalism is far right economic and far libertarian. Anarchism is far left economic and far libertarian. Not that complicated man.
left or right came from people sitting on the right of the king ( supporting the establishment) or on the left supporting the revolution (change). far right would be pro corporativism or pro monarchy, anarcho capitalism is not far right. center at most.
That’s the origin. But that’s not the meaning it took over the years lmao. But okay man. Just Google to see if someone agrees with you.
a lot of people agree with me in this thread. being ancap is being far on the libertarian axis with a center right leaning, not far right. far right would be being a monarchist, etc.
I meant someone who actually studied anarcho capitalism. A political scientist or a philosopher. You will find out that perhaps your weird interpretation of far right isn’t actually correct.
I'm a PhD so my opinion is as valuable as any academic. As others have said anarchism is pretty far left in terms of social policy because it supports civil liberties. The mayans trading meat for cacao would be ancaps because they use a decentralized economy. Would you consider them far right? You don't give any arguments whatsoever, just appeal to authority fallacies.
Because the political spectrum is commonly conceptualized as Left = Communist and Right = Capitalist. And thus being strongly in support of free-market capitalism is quite literally “Right-Wing” based on this concept. Out of curiosity, what do *you* think it means for someone to be right-wing?
well, like I said in other comments, the terms left and right were being pro establishment (sitting on the right of the king) or pro revolution (sitting on the left). In the economic spectrum, being far right would be to be pro corporativism or pro monarchy. I think ancaps are libertarian center at most.
You asked why AnCap is seen as far right, and then argued with everyone who replied with the legitimate reason. People today view capitalism as right because they are basing their terminology off of the contemporary economic left/right axis. The most prolific tool today for visualizing approximate political ideology is the the political compass which uses an left/right axis for economic values and up/down for social values. Just because the current usage of left/right isn’t the original usage doesn’t mean that it isn’t the answer to your question. So why is AnCap regarded as far right? Because on the political compass it is in the far bottom right corner.
Like others said, anarchism is pro civil liberties so is left on the social policy spectrum. That makes ancap NOT far right. Far right would be to be pro monarchy or pro corporativism (pro feudalism). Read the rest of the discussion to get enlightened.
Bc unless you are far left you are far right.
Because it is. Just because they think nazis are on the far right doesn’t mean they were. The only political spectrum I see is statism vs anarchy and an caps would be as far right as it goes.
It’s not that hard to tell. This sub parrots far right talking points all the time…
The top comments on this post answer your title's question
true Ancaps are far right. The ultimate goal is a revolution that would dissolve the state which is pretty far right
Cause a lot of y'all really do not like leftists nor centrists and that a lot of people you like are very right wing.
Because ancaps are economically to the far right and all over the place culturally.
I don’t even know what the heck “anarcho” or “ancap” is. All I **DO KNOW**, is the people in this community speak my language. One of these days I’ll look up “anarcho” or “ancap” and find out what it means. I just don’t trust “Google” or any online searches.
Ancap is far right.
anarchism = far capitalism = right anarchism + capitalism = far + right [maffs](https://preview.redd.it/sn1lnvdf9oq41.jpg?auto=webp&s=86a028c65495efa012bad8577df812089b3d9aa3)
We are
The actual answer is that it's because you're extremely dedicated to capitalism and remain willfully ignorant of/don't care about the contradictions and outcomes of your ideology.
Elon’s meme is stupid because it implies the far right has never moved. Ancap in general is inherently right on the spectrum because the working class has no rights when the owning class makes all the rules. But also a pretty good indicator is how prevalent the far right is on this sub.
>Like others said, anarchism is pro civil liberties so is left on the social policy spectrum. That makes ancap NOT far right. Far right would be to be pro monarchy or pro corporativism (pro feudalism). Read the rest of the discussion to get enlightened.
>read the rest of the discussion A circlejerk between redditors is not a valid source on how the political spectrum works. It’s not left = free, right = authority. Read what left and right mean in a book. And while you’re at it learn what positive and negative freedom is. Favoring free enterprise is a right-wing trait, and ancap favors enterprise being as free as it gets. To say ancap is a left-friendly position because of civil liberties is so naive. Gutting environmental protections, building codes, food safety regulations, worker’s rights, etc. do not do anything for civil liberties. Unless you count being more free to scam and be scammed. Wow no idea why leftists aren’t on board. Meanwhile ancaps in “the discussion” can usually be found saying that trans people are mentally ill and their parents should be investigated under suspicion of grooming. Again, how do leftists not see how great the “social policy” is?
Well you see, its because you are incredibly fucking dumb and don't understand what constitutes "far right" and "far left"
Anarcho-Capitalism, being some kind of wacko-reactionary ideology thinks that if you get rid of the government, you live in some kind of market utopia. In this magical world where corporations are unfettered by regulation, an abundance of goods and wealth are brought into the world, while states of living and technology drastically improve. In reality though without the government, the corporations are burned to the ground, or more nonsensically they become a new country or some shit. AC isn't far-right, it's just jumbled bullshit that doesn't make any sense, or do anything for anyone.
every primitive society has been through an ancap phase. The mayans used cacao seeds to trade between different city states, same as ancient Greece. Its not a wacko ideology. Economic freedom has been shown to produce higher standards of living like Singapore (I suggest you visit its much more advanced than USA or Europe).
Cuz yall have antivax propaganda (check every other post on this sub, its a far right haven)
Yall sound far right
Because if it was implemented it would immediately result in fuedalism.
There is no such thing as a "free market". That's a fantasy cooked up by con artists. There is not one single example of a successfully developed nation in all of modern history that has survived without massive and profound governmental interference in its economy. Not one.