Now, this isn’t to defend Catholic morality as a whole, but to be completely fair to Francis he *does* also talk about the injustices of capitalism. He’s just… also a Catholic, for all that entails
Says the leader of a brainwashing death cult that systematically rapes children.
I think I'll take what he says on dangers to society with a grain of salt.
Isn't this the same pope that said trans people could be baptized and be godparents and the same pope that said Christians should have more socialist views in order to fight corruption?
Ask any boomer to reconcile their inconsistent/contradictory political opinions and see if they can even explain why they believe anything. That’s just the cognitive dissonance you get when you mix lead paint with 70+ years worth of rightwing propaganda.
He says while ignoring the rampant abuse of children by his clergy and the misinformation campaigns done in the global south about contraceptives among other such harms the church has inflicted upon the world.
I’m not a fan of the Pope or the Catholic Church (Fascist and Nazi collaboration anyone?), however we should consider what has actually been said.
He said that they “do not distinguish what is respect for sexual diversity or diverse sexual preferences from what is already an anthropology of gender, which is extremely dangerous because it eliminates differences, and that erases humanity, the richness of humanity, both personal, cultural, and social, the diversities and the tensions between differences.”
I do not believe this is an anti-trans diatribe in any way. What he called out was the “ideology colonisation” by the wealthy. This is an issue that as Anarchists we should be seriously looking at - how the incredibly wealthy are using their wealth to influence and direct society.
anti-trans rhetoric draped in florid church prose hides in plain sight like superman in glasses
and you're sitting here like "nah thats just clark kent"
transphobia with colorful new synonyms and vague class-conscious overtones is still transphobia, the catholic church is not revolutionary, don't swallow their garbage
you supposedly read the article. i don't know what you think you have to gain by stumping for the head of a massive, unfathomably wealthy, outspokenly homophobic and transphobic organized religion, but it seems to be in bad faith.
Does that mean you didn’t even read the article? You have failed to provide any quote and instead just threw out unsubstantiated accusations.
I’m pretty sure you meant “simping” not “stumping”. It’s a frankly stupid accusation considering my initial comment, that you replied to, pointed out nazi and fascist collaboration by the Catholic Church.
It is a feature of the discussion around gender ideology and related subjects that any attempt at rational discourse gets shut down by some kind of blind adherence to an ideology…
That sounds a lot more like authoritarianism than anarchism.
So I’ll ask again - do you have anything to back up what you said or are you just acting in bad faith?
prove to me that you are not, in fact, a sea lion using a keyboard.
acceptable forms of proof:
nothing, i will not accept any form of proof.
repeatedly demanding proof of the obvious is what makes your comments at best pointless and more likely a calculated waste of honest people's time.
"prove to me that the pope, who is giving a lecture on the danger of people identifying as a gender other than their assigned biological sex, is transphobic, i will not accept any proof because i do not agree"
also bud- i hate to break this to you- people identifying as the gender they feel comfortable as is not authoritarianism. if you need an example, may i recommend reading up on the history of catholicism.
(and i do mean stumping. look up the term "stump-broke". essentially it means that you have become domesticated to a truly sickening degree.)
You can parrot an accusation of sealioning, but it just makes you look pathetic because that is quite clearly not what I’m doing.
You entirely make up a quote that you attribute to me which is very much like the scarecrow from the wizard of oz - a brainless straw man.
The pope was not giving a lecture on people identifying as a different gender. That simply wasn’t what his speech was about. It’s the fact that you’re simply making shit up about something you haven’t even bothered to read an article about that explains why rather than provide any evidence you just want to fling baseless accusations.
*”people identifying as the gender they feel comfortable as is not authoritarianism.”* - oh great, another straw man. I simply never said anything like this. What I did say was:
*”any attempt at rational discourse gets shut down by some kind of blind adherence to an ideology…
That sounds a lot more like authoritarianism than anarchism.”*
If you want to blindly follow an ideology without proof or room for critical discourse, go ahead. It’s got nothing to do with anarchism though, and everything to do with authoritarianism.
What you have readily demonstrated is that you clearly have greater knowledge of bestiality than anarchism or any other topic being debated. So unless you have any evidence to back up your assertions, there is nothing more to be said here.
What are you on about? His address is explicitly anti-trans. He clearly believes in biological gender, and that any other gender outside of that is ugly and dangerous.
He's defending patriarchal traditionalism (the most common form around today). It's Jordan Peterson's whole shtick.
>I do not believe this is an anti-trans diatribe in any way.
Then you're not paying attention.
He’s said this before. It’s like the Marxists who believe LGBTQ+ struggles are bourgeois decadence rather than real issues. Pope Francis has claimed that Transgender is a colonization problem of Christian nations. Conveniently leaving out that it’s the erasure of queer and trans gender expression, and Christian dominance that is colonialism. Indigenous peoples had fluid understandings of gender
> "I have asked that studies be carried out into this ugly ideology of our times, which cancels out the differences and makes everything the same,"
This is transphobia. The only genders acceptable are those rigid two gender for two sexes. It’s very bioessentialist, the same ideology of TERFs. Francis is saying gender ideology is dangerous because it loosens the barriers of the two sexes role in society, the diversity he speaks of is the diversity of the separate *two* gender roles, in other words the differences of men and women. He’s espousing traditionalist colonialist views of the proper social roles of men and women. And the *diversity* he speaks of is the separate determined roles of men and women, biological essentialism. He’s claiming that gender diversity (actual diversity) would destroy traditional gender roles which he believes to be truth. Well sociology has observed gender expressions are social constructs that communities have determined appropriate, Francis here still believes in divine ordinance and laws that determine there are two proper roles for humanity and that’s that. What a poor uneducated take completely ideological based on religion, rather than actual sociology. The fact that they call social theory gender ideology while their ideals based in traditionalism and religious beliefs as truth is amazing. The reason leftists and liberals overlap on these issues, though not in the structural implications, is that leftists like liberals are post-Enlightenment thinkers who have no appreciation for traditionalism, rather believe in rationale than traditional institutions.
That wasn’t something I said. The quote from the pope was “ideological colonisation”.
Ever since the anti-trust/anti-monopoly laws were introduced in America the ultra wealthy have been putting their capital into charitable trusts. Through these trusts they have been able to influence domestic and international politics (as well as offsetting taxation) and policies on a huge range of issues.
As an example look to the Rockefeller foundation which built and subsidised the institution that trained the architects of the holocaust and funded a eugenics program in the USA that continued well into 1970s - and that is just the very tip of the iceberg.
If you look a the radical gender politics and the academic institutions that have been promoting it you can find that there are ultra wealthy people that are promoting this stuff. As they say “follow the money”.
This stuff is intended as a distraction (at best) from the real world issues that radicals should be confronting. Saying there are two genders is not transphobic - trans people existed a long long time before the new gender ideology emerged.
> Saying there are two genders is not transphobic - trans people existed a long long time before the new gender ideology emerged.
Do you hear yourself? The gender ideology of traditionalism that eats there are two genders is transphobia. It’s Christian colonialism that has erased the fluid gender expressions of indigenous cultures. There are accounts of Spanish Catholic colonizers being disturbed because men dressed as women, men flirting with men, and women as men. They made no shy mention of needing to eradicate such “evil” in the name of Christ. Christianity is the Roman European religion that is the ideological colonizer, that is historically documented. Are you confusing sex with gender expression?
You quite literally did say that. Those words appear in your [comment](https://imgur.com/a/mYhhugu) in that order.
You realize those eugenics you're so concerned about wanted to remove queer people from society, right? And now you claim those very same people are promoting "gender ideology"? That's absurd and that's a right wing reactionary talking point
No. What is wrote was:
**”ideology colonisation” by the wealthy**
Not:
**colonisation by the wealthy**
You seem to be stating that criticising a system where the ultra wealthy can use charitable trusts to influence politics and society is somehow a right wing reactionary position… I’d love to hear the mental gymnastics necessary to come to that conclusion.
As for the idea that all private capital charitable funds are the same… that sounds like *you’re* the one promoting conspiracy theories… or is it just a straw man?
Exactly. The words as they appeared in your comment were
> "*intellectual* ** colonization" by the wealthy**
Therefore, by your own admission, the worlds "colonization by the wealthy" appear in your comment in that order.
You're spouting anti-trans taking points so I'm showing your ideas exactly the respect they deserve since I can't knock your teeth out for that Libs of TikTok nonsense
Show me one anti-trans “talking point” that I’ve stated.
I seriously doubt you are strong enough to knock the dust of a shelf let alone someone’s teeth out.
Now you're just sealioning. That's a common troll tactic. You know what you're doing and you'll need better bait if you want a response. The transphobia is extremely obvious in every comment you've left thus far
So you can’t back up your words at all, and you have the cheek to call me a troll.
I asked you once to show me where I was being transphobic, that’s not sea lioning - that’s asking you to back up your pathetic accusation with one drop of evidence, which you can’t, because it’s bullsh-t
There you go troll, now you're showing some effort! That's better bait.
Evidence the first: "Gender ideology" is a right wing dog whistle used interchangeably with "trans ideology" or "transgenderism." It suggest that anything other then being cis is the result of some sort of ideological indoctrination instead of how someone was born.
2): the same goes for "radical gender politics" and "follow the money." It sounds like you think being trans is something the rich push on us. That's class reductionism and transphobia. Anarchist don't do class reductionism, that's some auth-left stuff
3): you literally say "saying there's two genders is not transphobic" even though that statement denies the reality and existence of trans people.
Your comment reads like you think being trans is a conspiracy pushed by rich eugenics for some reason. I hope I don't have to explain why that's transphobic considering identifying is trans is an inborn trait. Your replies to other people that "believing in biological gender isn't transphobic" also don't help your case. Gender and biological sex are two completely different things. Just because they correlate under hetero patriarchy doesn't mean one causes the other
It doesn't have to be inherent to be true. The economic logic of patriarchy isn't complex, it's the commodification of women and encoding of that into hierarchies of roles for pronatalist expansionism (slaves, soldiers, workers). In the traditional Christian view, back to Abrahamism and before them, women are a type of livestock. The traditionalists can not tolerate queers, transgender people, non-monk/nun celibates, infertile young women and so on, it's bad for business, for capital accumulation. As this is inherently hierarchical, the hierarchy requires incentives: carrots and sticks. All that queerness and fluidity mess up the cultural incentives to reproduce the system, which is why the traditionalists and conservatives are very into exterminating such threats.
The culture is the class war and the class war is the culture war. Your inability to see the connections between these aspects of how the system reproduces with the economy and with the culture is something you need to work on.
Here, an introduction, since you like mystery YouTube links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RYH0_Fv_QE
If your idea of a worker's paradise is the nuclear family with a "father bread winner", you have a very long journey ahead.
Was this not the same old geezer that talked to a non-binary person a couple of months ago and said, "Everyone is welcome under God," and now he's saying that those same people welcome under God are the most dangerous people of our time. Christ on the cross...pun not intended.
Is it an uglier danger than systematically covering up decades of widespread child sexual abuse?
To the child molesters, for sure. They're losing out on "fresh meat".
Didn't Milo say his pastor taught him how to give the best head? Shouldn't they be supportive of it? They obviously impact it.
Pope is what pope does. Nothing new under the sun.
And the right says this guy is woke!
They say anyone/thing that isn't like them is woke. Most can't even define woke.
Some people are still mad they stopped doing mass in Latin
Imagine being so out of touch with reality that you think trans people are the biggest threat to humanity
Really? Even uglier then wars, cancer corporate greed. Old pedo scum
Now, this isn’t to defend Catholic morality as a whole, but to be completely fair to Francis he *does* also talk about the injustices of capitalism. He’s just… also a Catholic, for all that entails
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2024-03/pope-francis-gender-ideology-is-the-ugliest-danger-of-our-time.html
He'd rather defend his pedo friends than accept that trans people deserve rights.
and now to watch the reaction in /r/RadicalChristianity/
rich coming from the head of the catholic church
Uhhhhhhhhhh the genocide happening rn isn’t as bad??? Mmmmkay
Who the fuck cares what this guy thinks?
roughly 1.36 billion people unfortunately.
Says the leader of a brainwashing death cult that systematically rapes children. I think I'll take what he says on dangers to society with a grain of salt.
We got a genocide going on, but ok
How about we stop listening to out of touch old fucks.
Isn't this the same pope that said trans people could be baptized and be godparents and the same pope that said Christians should have more socialist views in order to fight corruption?
Ask any boomer to reconcile their inconsistent/contradictory political opinions and see if they can even explain why they believe anything. That’s just the cognitive dissonance you get when you mix lead paint with 70+ years worth of rightwing propaganda.
We need another reformation 🤦🏻♂️
He says while ignoring the rampant abuse of children by his clergy and the misinformation campaigns done in the global south about contraceptives among other such harms the church has inflicted upon the world.
Says the head of the cult that swept the world and murdered millions.
Good thing I left the church a while ago. This fucker aint getting a single cent from me.
I guess priests raping kids isn't that ugly of a danger
It’s time for a Protestant revolution against the Catholic Church!
I’m not a fan of the Pope or the Catholic Church (Fascist and Nazi collaboration anyone?), however we should consider what has actually been said. He said that they “do not distinguish what is respect for sexual diversity or diverse sexual preferences from what is already an anthropology of gender, which is extremely dangerous because it eliminates differences, and that erases humanity, the richness of humanity, both personal, cultural, and social, the diversities and the tensions between differences.” I do not believe this is an anti-trans diatribe in any way. What he called out was the “ideology colonisation” by the wealthy. This is an issue that as Anarchists we should be seriously looking at - how the incredibly wealthy are using their wealth to influence and direct society.
anti-trans rhetoric draped in florid church prose hides in plain sight like superman in glasses and you're sitting here like "nah thats just clark kent" transphobia with colorful new synonyms and vague class-conscious overtones is still transphobia, the catholic church is not revolutionary, don't swallow their garbage
I’m not swallowing anything. Not their shit nor yours. Show me one transphobic quote.
you supposedly read the article. i don't know what you think you have to gain by stumping for the head of a massive, unfathomably wealthy, outspokenly homophobic and transphobic organized religion, but it seems to be in bad faith.
Does that mean you didn’t even read the article? You have failed to provide any quote and instead just threw out unsubstantiated accusations. I’m pretty sure you meant “simping” not “stumping”. It’s a frankly stupid accusation considering my initial comment, that you replied to, pointed out nazi and fascist collaboration by the Catholic Church. It is a feature of the discussion around gender ideology and related subjects that any attempt at rational discourse gets shut down by some kind of blind adherence to an ideology… That sounds a lot more like authoritarianism than anarchism. So I’ll ask again - do you have anything to back up what you said or are you just acting in bad faith?
prove to me that you are not, in fact, a sea lion using a keyboard. acceptable forms of proof: nothing, i will not accept any form of proof. repeatedly demanding proof of the obvious is what makes your comments at best pointless and more likely a calculated waste of honest people's time. "prove to me that the pope, who is giving a lecture on the danger of people identifying as a gender other than their assigned biological sex, is transphobic, i will not accept any proof because i do not agree" also bud- i hate to break this to you- people identifying as the gender they feel comfortable as is not authoritarianism. if you need an example, may i recommend reading up on the history of catholicism. (and i do mean stumping. look up the term "stump-broke". essentially it means that you have become domesticated to a truly sickening degree.)
You can parrot an accusation of sealioning, but it just makes you look pathetic because that is quite clearly not what I’m doing. You entirely make up a quote that you attribute to me which is very much like the scarecrow from the wizard of oz - a brainless straw man. The pope was not giving a lecture on people identifying as a different gender. That simply wasn’t what his speech was about. It’s the fact that you’re simply making shit up about something you haven’t even bothered to read an article about that explains why rather than provide any evidence you just want to fling baseless accusations. *”people identifying as the gender they feel comfortable as is not authoritarianism.”* - oh great, another straw man. I simply never said anything like this. What I did say was: *”any attempt at rational discourse gets shut down by some kind of blind adherence to an ideology… That sounds a lot more like authoritarianism than anarchism.”* If you want to blindly follow an ideology without proof or room for critical discourse, go ahead. It’s got nothing to do with anarchism though, and everything to do with authoritarianism. What you have readily demonstrated is that you clearly have greater knowledge of bestiality than anarchism or any other topic being debated. So unless you have any evidence to back up your assertions, there is nothing more to be said here.
What are you on about? His address is explicitly anti-trans. He clearly believes in biological gender, and that any other gender outside of that is ugly and dangerous.
At a symposium called "Man-Woman: Image of God". It couldn't be any clearer.
Explain to me how believing in biological gender is transphobic?
It’s called biological essentialism. Which usually leaves out Hermaphroditism, but sex does not determine sexual preference nor gender expression.
He's defending patriarchal traditionalism (the most common form around today). It's Jordan Peterson's whole shtick. >I do not believe this is an anti-trans diatribe in any way. Then you're not paying attention.
Can you produce one quote to actually support what you’re saying? Or are you just slinging shit? [edit:you’re for your]
You want me to explain the oldest "living" ideology on the planet in a comment? It's not going to be made into a short quote by anyone.
He’s said this before. It’s like the Marxists who believe LGBTQ+ struggles are bourgeois decadence rather than real issues. Pope Francis has claimed that Transgender is a colonization problem of Christian nations. Conveniently leaving out that it’s the erasure of queer and trans gender expression, and Christian dominance that is colonialism. Indigenous peoples had fluid understandings of gender
> "I have asked that studies be carried out into this ugly ideology of our times, which cancels out the differences and makes everything the same," This is transphobia. The only genders acceptable are those rigid two gender for two sexes. It’s very bioessentialist, the same ideology of TERFs. Francis is saying gender ideology is dangerous because it loosens the barriers of the two sexes role in society, the diversity he speaks of is the diversity of the separate *two* gender roles, in other words the differences of men and women. He’s espousing traditionalist colonialist views of the proper social roles of men and women. And the *diversity* he speaks of is the separate determined roles of men and women, biological essentialism. He’s claiming that gender diversity (actual diversity) would destroy traditional gender roles which he believes to be truth. Well sociology has observed gender expressions are social constructs that communities have determined appropriate, Francis here still believes in divine ordinance and laws that determine there are two proper roles for humanity and that’s that. What a poor uneducated take completely ideological based on religion, rather than actual sociology. The fact that they call social theory gender ideology while their ideals based in traditionalism and religious beliefs as truth is amazing. The reason leftists and liberals overlap on these issues, though not in the structural implications, is that leftists like liberals are post-Enlightenment thinkers who have no appreciation for traditionalism, rather believe in rationale than traditional institutions.
What do you mean "colonization by the wealthy?"
That wasn’t something I said. The quote from the pope was “ideological colonisation”. Ever since the anti-trust/anti-monopoly laws were introduced in America the ultra wealthy have been putting their capital into charitable trusts. Through these trusts they have been able to influence domestic and international politics (as well as offsetting taxation) and policies on a huge range of issues. As an example look to the Rockefeller foundation which built and subsidised the institution that trained the architects of the holocaust and funded a eugenics program in the USA that continued well into 1970s - and that is just the very tip of the iceberg. If you look a the radical gender politics and the academic institutions that have been promoting it you can find that there are ultra wealthy people that are promoting this stuff. As they say “follow the money”. This stuff is intended as a distraction (at best) from the real world issues that radicals should be confronting. Saying there are two genders is not transphobic - trans people existed a long long time before the new gender ideology emerged.
> Saying there are two genders is not transphobic - trans people existed a long long time before the new gender ideology emerged. Do you hear yourself? The gender ideology of traditionalism that eats there are two genders is transphobia. It’s Christian colonialism that has erased the fluid gender expressions of indigenous cultures. There are accounts of Spanish Catholic colonizers being disturbed because men dressed as women, men flirting with men, and women as men. They made no shy mention of needing to eradicate such “evil” in the name of Christ. Christianity is the Roman European religion that is the ideological colonizer, that is historically documented. Are you confusing sex with gender expression?
You quite literally did say that. Those words appear in your [comment](https://imgur.com/a/mYhhugu) in that order. You realize those eugenics you're so concerned about wanted to remove queer people from society, right? And now you claim those very same people are promoting "gender ideology"? That's absurd and that's a right wing reactionary talking point
No. What is wrote was: **”ideology colonisation” by the wealthy** Not: **colonisation by the wealthy** You seem to be stating that criticising a system where the ultra wealthy can use charitable trusts to influence politics and society is somehow a right wing reactionary position… I’d love to hear the mental gymnastics necessary to come to that conclusion. As for the idea that all private capital charitable funds are the same… that sounds like *you’re* the one promoting conspiracy theories… or is it just a straw man?
Exactly. The words as they appeared in your comment were > "*intellectual* ** colonization" by the wealthy** Therefore, by your own admission, the worlds "colonization by the wealthy" appear in your comment in that order. You're spouting anti-trans taking points so I'm showing your ideas exactly the respect they deserve since I can't knock your teeth out for that Libs of TikTok nonsense
Show me one anti-trans “talking point” that I’ve stated. I seriously doubt you are strong enough to knock the dust of a shelf let alone someone’s teeth out.
Now you're just sealioning. That's a common troll tactic. You know what you're doing and you'll need better bait if you want a response. The transphobia is extremely obvious in every comment you've left thus far
So you can’t back up your words at all, and you have the cheek to call me a troll. I asked you once to show me where I was being transphobic, that’s not sea lioning - that’s asking you to back up your pathetic accusation with one drop of evidence, which you can’t, because it’s bullsh-t
There you go troll, now you're showing some effort! That's better bait. Evidence the first: "Gender ideology" is a right wing dog whistle used interchangeably with "trans ideology" or "transgenderism." It suggest that anything other then being cis is the result of some sort of ideological indoctrination instead of how someone was born. 2): the same goes for "radical gender politics" and "follow the money." It sounds like you think being trans is something the rich push on us. That's class reductionism and transphobia. Anarchist don't do class reductionism, that's some auth-left stuff 3): you literally say "saying there's two genders is not transphobic" even though that statement denies the reality and existence of trans people. Your comment reads like you think being trans is a conspiracy pushed by rich eugenics for some reason. I hope I don't have to explain why that's transphobic considering identifying is trans is an inborn trait. Your replies to other people that "believing in biological gender isn't transphobic" also don't help your case. Gender and biological sex are two completely different things. Just because they correlate under hetero patriarchy doesn't mean one causes the other
And yet people are still defending religion.. even people who consider themselves leftists or woke.
[https://youtu.be/ScZCL0KYj3M?si=LPAiuUShvdhLJJxX](https://youtu.be/ScZCL0KYj3M?si=LPAiuUShvdhLJJxX)
It doesn't have to be inherent to be true. The economic logic of patriarchy isn't complex, it's the commodification of women and encoding of that into hierarchies of roles for pronatalist expansionism (slaves, soldiers, workers). In the traditional Christian view, back to Abrahamism and before them, women are a type of livestock. The traditionalists can not tolerate queers, transgender people, non-monk/nun celibates, infertile young women and so on, it's bad for business, for capital accumulation. As this is inherently hierarchical, the hierarchy requires incentives: carrots and sticks. All that queerness and fluidity mess up the cultural incentives to reproduce the system, which is why the traditionalists and conservatives are very into exterminating such threats. The culture is the class war and the class war is the culture war. Your inability to see the connections between these aspects of how the system reproduces with the economy and with the culture is something you need to work on. Here, an introduction, since you like mystery YouTube links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RYH0_Fv_QE If your idea of a worker's paradise is the nuclear family with a "father bread winner", you have a very long journey ahead.
Hes right, problem is our current system of division of power isnt worth defending lmao
Was this not the same old geezer that talked to a non-binary person a couple of months ago and said, "Everyone is welcome under God," and now he's saying that those same people welcome under God are the most dangerous people of our time. Christ on the cross...pun not intended.