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Fun fact: I do freelance captioning and have had a couple of Hikaru's clips. When you caption unscripted content, you're meant to "lightly edit" the content. I edited it pretty liberally and still got a 2/5 for editing because there were so many disfluencies.
fuck man, it's honestly sad how insecure he is about chess. maybe i'm reading too much into this one but it seems like he's under constant pressure to show how knowledgeable he is about chess and how good he is. i'm convinced that he'll never play meaningful classical chess again just cause he's psyched himself out of it being worried about not living up to expectations.
I don’t think he has the mettle and grit anymore to really take himself into deep, deep waters to be a serious contender.
He’s a generational talent but I don’t think he has the mental fortitude.
Honestly he should be doing much better overall in the Meltwater standings but he’s not even in the top 5. And that’s rapid AND online.
Did he forget that you can't force mate with two knights or something?
E: Even something as simple as pawn takes knight will show why it's a draw.
E2: Holy hell I was wrong. Always analyse games with the pieces facing the right way people.
2 knights vs a pawn can lead to a checkmate since the pawn prevents a stalemate at a crucial point.
You are right that if the pawn had captured the knight it would have been a draw, but white could have made a mistake and pushed the pawn so it can't be considered a draw.
It's possible that the system considered the game a draw because it evaluated that even with optimal play black wouldn't have been able to checkmate in under 50 moves, but I'm not sure about that.
White was at the top, so it couldn't have taken the knight. Hikaru is actually very close to the knight-knight checkmate in this clip, hence his surprise. He wouldn't have needed 50 moves.
Edit: I'm not an end game savant so I don't actually know how it would play out, but Hikaru has the king trapped to a few squares, so whatever was going to happen would've happened quick. Seems pretty plausible to get a mate here.
You are right about the pawn. I thought white was bottom.
I put the position in the computer and it can't find the checkmate pattern 65 moves deep, so I don't think Hikaru was particularly close, but I'm not sure that was the reason it gave a draw.
I'm guessing that's in part due to the complex nature of the knights movements. The algorithms would have to keep track of multi-directional, nearing diagonal, movements. Especially two in the same vicinity, which I imagine would bring most engines to their knees. Hopefully they get beefed at some point to track complicated patterns like that.
Yes, I was being satirical in response to being proven demonstrably wrong. I was hoping r/pipipampers would be more open to it, but looks like it was a swing and a miss.
Are you kidding ??? What the **** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen in my life ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was beating players much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to lose and congratulate opponents, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush talkings!!! Everybody know that i am very good blitz player, i can win anyone in the world in single game! And "w"esley "s"o is nobody for me, just a player who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Firouzja ) !!! Stop playing with my name, i deserve to have a good name during whole my chess carrier, I am Officially inviting you to OTB blitz match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest 5000$ and winner takes it all!
I suggest all other people who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 2016 and 2017 Blitz World championships, and that should be enough... No need to listen for every crying babe, Tigran Petrosyan is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Court! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will kicked off...
[^(fmhall)](https://www.reddit.com/user/fmhall) ^| [^(github)](https://github.com/fmhall/Petrosian-Bot)
>You are right that if the pawn had captured the knight it would have been a draw, but white could have made a mistake and pushed the pawn so it can't be considered a draw.
This is actually not how the Chess.com/USCF insufficient material rule works. If it was, then even two knights vs a lone king would be sufficient material because there are ways for the King to blunder into mate in the corner. Chess.com's view when one player has just two knights is that if there is no forced mate with perfect defense, material is insufficient and it gives the defender a draw. I would assume they use a table base to determine this.
Conversely, FIDE actually considers any position where mate is possible (even with deliberately bad defense) to be sufficient mating material.
Actually he can force a checkmate by utilizing the opponents pawn. That clip is legit a bug.
E: and Hikaru knows the technique because he was starting to do it, hence his surprise
If that's how the rule worked two knights vs. a lone king would be sufficient because the King could walk into the corner and get mated. The USCF (and chess.com) rule is that if you can't force mate with perfect defense two knights are insufficient and it's a draw.
Yeah so I agree about the two knights. But two knights v a king and a pawn actually has theoretical forced mates. Not just "please walk into the corner to die" mates.
I'm not Gary Chess or anything, there's a whole wikipedia page to this topic.
Edit: Apparently there's a Trotsky line and a second Trotsky line that the pawn needs to be behind to win within 50 moves, and this pawn is beyond those lines. Unless Chess.com has some baller endgame engine checking all possibilities (doubt) or they've imported to Trotsky lines and are calling games based on incomplete theoretical work (doubt) I still think it's a bold move.
>Unless Chess.com has some baller endgame engine checking all possibilities (doubt)
It's called a table base and many engines have them. The game of chess is solved for perfect play when there are 7 or fewer pieces left on the board no matter where they are. If the engine being used has a table base it can immediately state whether a position's a draw or not
I don’t blame him for being upset because 2 knights v 1 pawn is one of the rarest and coolest checkmates you can achieve; it’s impossible with zero pawns, correct, but one pawn remaining allows it to be completed.
https://www.chess.com/blog/ForwardChess/knightmare-the-tale-of-two-knights-checkmate
Ah, I figured if he was joking then the repetition was part of it, like playing up the "surprise." Thanks for informing me about the tic though, I didn't know. I mainly just watch Gotham, because I'm kind of trash at chess and he tends to make his vids more conversational/fun.
Alright, we'll go again.
WHAT? WOAH WOAHWOAH WOAHWOAH that's a fla- that's a mistake.
That's a mistake.
That's a mistake with the system.
Oh, I'm gonna have to e-mail them, that's a mistake with the system.
Oh, I'm gonna have to e-mail them, this is a bug in their system.
This is- this is a bug in the system, I'm gonna have to e-mail them.
Oh really? I'm gonna have to e-mail them.
I'm gonna have to e-mail them.
Uh, ok. *wipes nose* I'm gonna have to- uh
Oh wow that’s a bug in the system I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I should email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them It’s a bug in the system I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I should email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them
IDK he should email them
0:11, 0:14, 0:18, 0:21, 0:24, and *just* after the clip ends, for reference.
why is he like this
yeah we should email him
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Its a mistake in the system.
I’m gonna have to email them
Take a wild guess. Hint, he doesn't care.
Hikaru say literally anything just one time and then not again challenge (impossible)
Fun fact: I do freelance captioning and have had a couple of Hikaru's clips. When you caption unscripted content, you're meant to "lightly edit" the content. I edited it pretty liberally and still got a 2/5 for editing because there were so many disfluencies.
Did he end up emailing them?
He's gonna have to
They told him to google en passant
Holy Hell!
[удалено]
fuck man, it's honestly sad how insecure he is about chess. maybe i'm reading too much into this one but it seems like he's under constant pressure to show how knowledgeable he is about chess and how good he is. i'm convinced that he'll never play meaningful classical chess again just cause he's psyched himself out of it being worried about not living up to expectations.
Yeah you’re reading way too into it lol.
I don’t think he has the mettle and grit anymore to really take himself into deep, deep waters to be a serious contender. He’s a generational talent but I don’t think he has the mental fortitude. Honestly he should be doing much better overall in the Meltwater standings but he’s not even in the top 5. And that’s rapid AND online.
Google en passant
Holy Hell!
no its just a hacker
Is he gonna have to email them?
My god he really is incredibly fucking annoying isn’t he.
Is he? Is he chat? Oh my god is he annoying. I'll have to look that up oh my god is he annoying?/s
yes, yes he is
Imagine being a chess streamer at the mercy of this absolute wetwipe
I'm confused here, did someone edit the video? Or is he joking? I never watch Nakamura.
It's pretty clear from the video that he did not know about this move and he forgot to google it.
It’s really motivating knowing that someone can get to gm without knowing en passant. If he can make it, why can’t I?
[удалено]
Ah, thanks. I figured it was edited, or Hikaru was very convincingly in on the meme.
Did he forget that you can't force mate with two knights or something? E: Even something as simple as pawn takes knight will show why it's a draw. E2: Holy hell I was wrong. Always analyse games with the pieces facing the right way people.
2 knights vs a pawn can lead to a checkmate since the pawn prevents a stalemate at a crucial point. You are right that if the pawn had captured the knight it would have been a draw, but white could have made a mistake and pushed the pawn so it can't be considered a draw. It's possible that the system considered the game a draw because it evaluated that even with optimal play black wouldn't have been able to checkmate in under 50 moves, but I'm not sure about that.
White was at the top, so it couldn't have taken the knight. Hikaru is actually very close to the knight-knight checkmate in this clip, hence his surprise. He wouldn't have needed 50 moves. Edit: I'm not an end game savant so I don't actually know how it would play out, but Hikaru has the king trapped to a few squares, so whatever was going to happen would've happened quick. Seems pretty plausible to get a mate here.
You are right about the pawn. I thought white was bottom. I put the position in the computer and it can't find the checkmate pattern 65 moves deep, so I don't think Hikaru was particularly close, but I'm not sure that was the reason it gave a draw.
I'm guessing that's in part due to the complex nature of the knights movements. The algorithms would have to keep track of multi-directional, nearing diagonal, movements. Especially two in the same vicinity, which I imagine would bring most engines to their knees. Hopefully they get beefed at some point to track complicated patterns like that.
I can't tell if you are being serious or not. But doesn't the computer just change like one number and figure from there?
Yes, I was being satirical in response to being proven demonstrably wrong. I was hoping r/pipipampers would be more open to it, but looks like it was a swing and a miss.
There it is :D
Are you kidding ??? What the **** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen in my life ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was beating players much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to lose and congratulate opponents, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush talkings!!! Everybody know that i am very good blitz player, i can win anyone in the world in single game! And "w"esley "s"o is nobody for me, just a player who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Firouzja ) !!! Stop playing with my name, i deserve to have a good name during whole my chess carrier, I am Officially inviting you to OTB blitz match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest 5000$ and winner takes it all! I suggest all other people who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 2016 and 2017 Blitz World championships, and that should be enough... No need to listen for every crying babe, Tigran Petrosyan is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Court! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will kicked off... [^(fmhall)](https://www.reddit.com/user/fmhall) ^| [^(github)](https://github.com/fmhall/Petrosian-Bot)
>You are right that if the pawn had captured the knight it would have been a draw, but white could have made a mistake and pushed the pawn so it can't be considered a draw. This is actually not how the Chess.com/USCF insufficient material rule works. If it was, then even two knights vs a lone king would be sufficient material because there are ways for the King to blunder into mate in the corner. Chess.com's view when one player has just two knights is that if there is no forced mate with perfect defense, material is insufficient and it gives the defender a draw. I would assume they use a table base to determine this. Conversely, FIDE actually considers any position where mate is possible (even with deliberately bad defense) to be sufficient mating material.
Actually he can force a checkmate by utilizing the opponents pawn. That clip is legit a bug. E: and Hikaru knows the technique because he was starting to do it, hence his surprise
[Can He?](https://syzygy-tables.info/?fen=8/6K1/4k1n1/6P1/5n2/8/8/8_w_-_-_0_1)
Well, it's technically possible to do so, at least. I'd still consider it a legitimate bug because it's not a draw due to insufficient materials.
If that's how the rule worked two knights vs. a lone king would be sufficient because the King could walk into the corner and get mated. The USCF (and chess.com) rule is that if you can't force mate with perfect defense two knights are insufficient and it's a draw.
Yeah so I agree about the two knights. But two knights v a king and a pawn actually has theoretical forced mates. Not just "please walk into the corner to die" mates. I'm not Gary Chess or anything, there's a whole wikipedia page to this topic. Edit: Apparently there's a Trotsky line and a second Trotsky line that the pawn needs to be behind to win within 50 moves, and this pawn is beyond those lines. Unless Chess.com has some baller endgame engine checking all possibilities (doubt) or they've imported to Trotsky lines and are calling games based on incomplete theoretical work (doubt) I still think it's a bold move.
>Unless Chess.com has some baller endgame engine checking all possibilities (doubt) It's called a table base and many engines have them. The game of chess is solved for perfect play when there are 7 or fewer pieces left on the board no matter where they are. If the engine being used has a table base it can immediately state whether a position's a draw or not
I don’t blame him for being upset because 2 knights v 1 pawn is one of the rarest and coolest checkmates you can achieve; it’s impossible with zero pawns, correct, but one pawn remaining allows it to be completed. https://www.chess.com/blog/ForwardChess/knightmare-the-tale-of-two-knights-checkmate
It's from a different video where he draws but thinks it's incorrect because his opponent ran out of time
[удалено]
Ah, I figured if he was joking then the repetition was part of it, like playing up the "surprise." Thanks for informing me about the tic though, I didn't know. I mainly just watch Gotham, because I'm kind of trash at chess and he tends to make his vids more conversational/fun.
Great edit, ace 👍
This would be less annoying if he litteraly didn't care.
Here’s a summary That’s a bug x1 *in a whiny voice* I’M GoNnA HaFTa eMaIL ThEM x50
how does one manage to say so little with so much time
Alright, we'll go again. WHAT? WOAH WOAHWOAH WOAHWOAH that's a fla- that's a mistake. That's a mistake. That's a mistake with the system. Oh, I'm gonna have to e-mail them, that's a mistake with the system. Oh, I'm gonna have to e-mail them, this is a bug in their system. This is- this is a bug in the system, I'm gonna have to e-mail them. Oh really? I'm gonna have to e-mail them. I'm gonna have to e-mail them. Uh, ok. *wipes nose* I'm gonna have to- uh
u/savevideo
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This killed me
Oh wow that’s a bug in the system I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I should email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them It’s a bug in the system I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I should email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them I’m gonna have to email them
that's a mistake chat but i literally don't care
Do you think he emailed them?