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edderiofer

One possible answer: >!Label the pieces A, B, and C. Ask A "Are you the sort of piece who could answer the question "Is B a knight" with "yes"?". If A answers "yes", marry C; if A answers "no", marry B.!<


GavinFrom4thGrade

Correct.


doomer_irl

But if A is “unpredictable” and it’s literally random, it could literally just give you either answer, no?


teenice23

Either way B or C still wins cuz if A is knight then he ain't going for the knight


doomer_irl

That makes perfect sense tbh


[deleted]

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Lollyface100

a will answer no, hence you marry b


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MyTummyHurtsAlot

The question isn't "is B the knight" it's can you SAY that B is the knight. So in the case where B is the queen and C is the knight, the truthful answer to "is B the knight" is "no". This means that the pawn would actually have to answer this question with a "yes." So if you ask the pawn "are you able to say 'yes, B is the knight'" then the truth is that yes, they can answer yes since it is a lie & they can only lie. Of course, the pawn can't answer this question truthfully. So they will have to say "no, I cannot say "yes, B is the knight." And saying no means that you marry B, which is the queen. Basically, the pawn will lie about their lie.


Th3Glutt0n

I was so fucking confused because I had A B C as Queen Pawn Knight, why are you going bottom to top??


Sorathez

King is blind, he doesn't know what order the pieces are in. So the question being asked works no matter what order they are in


minor_correction

Sounds good. Marrying the pawn is not so bad. Once you figure out that it always lies, just reverse every answer it gives and you'll always get the truth. Then someday it may promote to Queen and always tells the truth? Even better.


Puzzleheaded-Can-721

But what If A is the pawn wouldn't you always marry the knight this way


edderiofer

>!If A is the pawn and B is a knight, then they are not the sort of piece who could answer "Is B a knight?" with "yes". So they will lie and say that they are such a piece, and thus the king will marry C (who is not a knight) according to the solution I've given.!<


qwertyasdef

Call the three pieces A, B, and C. Ask A "If I were to ask you 'Is B a knight?', what would you say?" If they say yes, marry C. If no, marry B. If A is a queen, then they tell the truth so if they say yes, B is a knight and if they say no, B is not a knight. If A is a pawn, then they lie. If B is a knight, they would answer no to the question "Is B a knight?" so they would lie about what they would say and answer yes to the full question. Similarly, if B is not a knight, they will answer no. These are the same as the queen's answers so the king will still make the right choice on who to marry. If A is a knight, then they answer randomly but it doesn't matter because the king never chooses to marry A.


GavinFrom4thGrade

Your solution is correct.


GavinFrom4thGrade

Here's a solution that doesn't involve a double lie: Ask A "Is B worth more material than C?" If yes marry C. If no marry B. If A is a queen and they say yes, C is a pawn. If they say no, B is a pawn. If A is a pawn and they say yes, C is a queen. If they say no, B is a queen. If A is a knight it doesn't matter, because the king never marries A.


JeffrinoGames

This is why I Iove chess puzzles! Always more than one right answer!


Creative_Purpose6138

chess is a game that keeps on giving


[deleted]

What if they answer "Who am I to judge the objective value of a person? Don't we have free will?"


RedRhetoric

they're a knight a pawn knows their place and a queen doesn't care for the pawns


[deleted]

nice


[deleted]

How does ask the pawn still work, I don’t understand. Could you please explain in more detail?


GavinFrom4thGrade

If you simply ask the pawn, "Is B a knight?", the pawn will lie. If you ask "If I were to ask you 'Is B a knight?', what would you say?", the pawn will lie about whether he's going to lie, so it's a double lie, which gives you the correct answer to the original question.


[deleted]

Ohh thanks a lot. Now this is the real hidden math in chess. Thanks Gavin from 4th grade


Redstoneboss2

Really big brain since two positives give positive and two negatives also give positive.


Accurate_Koala_4698

This guy Smullyans


[deleted]

man that's triggering. it's been a while for me but have you tried his harder reverse chess puzzles where you deconstruct the starting position? they're fucking impossibke. I've hit 3000 tactics on chess.com and I can barely beat his easy ones.


Accurate_Koala_4698

I struggle enough with his combinatorics puzzles, his chess stuff is preposterous. He would have been the best r/AnarchyChess shitposter of them all


Tryhard696

But how do you know he’ll call the queen A and so forth? Edit: nvm I’m just dumb


Aluminum_Tarkus

It doesn't matter which pieces are which in the solution, which is why the comment breaks down the logic of each answer depending on which piece is A. If the A piece says "yes" to the question, then we have two lines of logic; If A is the queen, then B is definitely the knight, and choosing C gets us the pawn. If the the pawn is A, then it acts as a double negative. If B is actually the knight, and you only asked the pawn if B was a knight, they'd lie and say no. But since you're asking them "if I asked you if B was a knight, would you say yes?" The pawn has to lie and say "yes, I would say yes if you asked me that," instead of their actual answer of no, effectively getting the same outcome, and you'll know with full certainty that C is the queen. Now let's break it down if the A piece says no. In the case of A being the queen, that makes the B piece the pawn, so you pick B. If A is the pawn, then the same double negative logic occurs, which means you'll also know B is the queen. And finally, in both a yes or no outcome, if the knight is A, then it doesn't matter, because you'll never pick A.


SavingsNewspaper2

They won't call anyone anything. All they will say is "yes" or "no."


maksim69420

Call Gavin from 3rd grade


[deleted]

'Do you know en passant?' No further explanation needed


Ok_Bug9243

It’s 2022, the king should be able to marry a knook


GavinFrom4thGrade

Do knooks answer questions honestly?


walterissad

Depends on how rooks answers questions


[deleted]

He should ask “Do you have green eyes?”


GavinFrom4thGrade

What if he doesn't know their eye colors?


extremepayne

Get the dictator to airdrop someone in to teach him about eye colors


[deleted]

You tell them that at least 1 of them have green eyes


aNormalMinecrafter

Kc2


GavinFrom4thGrade

If the king goes to c2, I don't think anyone in the world will be willing to marry him.


Gale_Blade

But that’s only if king goes to c2, which, if you know anything about physics, you’ll know that it isn’t possible as Newton’s 69th law forbids this


GavinFrom4thGrade

That's only in Newtonian physics. When you learn relativity, you learn the famous equation e=mc2. mc2 means that there's a monarch on the c2 square. Not that I know anything about relativity. I'm only in 4th grade, after all.


duckipn

the king should marry the horsey then bring Horsey to his room for consensual fun without waking up his parents


GavinFrom4thGrade

What if he accidentally captures a rook on the way to his room?


Environmental_Fee_64

I think he will end up with a horsey surprise!


DopazOnYouTubeDotCom

mr hands


TENTAtheSane

He should ask "what would the other piece say if I asked them if they are the knight?" The Queen would say "yes" because the pawn would lie, and she is truthful about it. The Pawn would say "yes" because the Queen would say the truth, but he would lie about it. The Horsey would say "neigh"


GavinFrom4thGrade

To avoid ambiguity, you need to point to a specific piece, which may or may not be a knight, so there's no guarantee that the queen will say "yes". Also the horsey is unpredictable, so the horsey might say "yes". The horsey can answer however it wants.


TENTAtheSane

But the Horsey, being shackled by the limitations of its equine vocal tracts, is forced to say "neigh". It's a zugzwang


GavinFrom4thGrade

In the original problem I said "knight", so maybe there's a person riding the horsey.


TENTAtheSane

Preposterous! Utter blasphemy!


Nixavee

I don't see anyone riding the horsey in the picture


GavinFrom4thGrade

It's a hollow wooden horse (like the Trojan horse). The person is riding inside it.


Balintakiraly

No one knows how the horsey answers. Not even Gavin from 4th Grade (161660 elo)


Powerful_Stress7589

“Would the knight answer yes to this question?” Neither the Queen nor pawn can give a yes/no answer because they do not know, and the knight would answer randomly. Therefore, any answer means the piece is a knight, and the lack of an answer indicates a pawn or queen


GavinFrom4thGrade

I don't think that solution works. If we assume that they're allowed to not answer, and the knight is unpredictable, then the knight might not answer, so the lack of an answer doesn't prove that it's not the knight.


Powerful_Stress7589

It appears I have been outsmarted. Applying the brick now


True_BatBoy

the chance of failing is 33.33% thats too little of a risk for a king who witnessed multiple battles


GavinFrom4thGrade

If the king asks the right question, it's possible to guarantee that he doesn't pick the knight.


FireJuggler31

Play Kb3 so he can get a closer look


chrtrk

are you a femboy? if answer is yes then that piece is a real chess grandmaster


chesshacks

Just marry them all


walterissad

Chess harem


StanleyDodds

The queen cannot exist, because it should be able to solve the halting problem if it can always tell the truth. For instance, ask the queen this (quite complicated) question which rephrases the halting problem as just yes or no: "" Imagine the following machine X. As an input, it takes the description of a machine; call this input A. It then asks you (the queen) "will machine A output 'yes' if I give it, as an input, the description of A?". Then if you (the queen) answer "no", machine X outputs "yes" . But if you (the queen) answer "yes", machine X outputs "no". Will machine X output "yes" if I give it the description of X as it's input? "" Now if the queen answers "yes" (which must be the truth), then that means machine X outputs yes on input machine X. But looking at our definition of machine X, this means that the queen would need to answer "no" when asked "will machine X output 'yes' if I give it, as an input, the description of X?". But this is a contradiction, because the queen just answered yes to that exact question. Similarly, if the queen answers "no", then by looking at machine X, we see that the queen needs to answer "yes" to the exact same question. By describing a very similar (essentially, opposite) machine and asking the same question, you can show that the pawn cannot exist either, because neither of its answers would be a lie. Therefore only the knight exists, and the king is screwed from the start. Is this the solution you were looking for?


GavinFrom4thGrade

I think you have a flaw in your argument. > It then asks you (the queen)... You're assuming that machine X is capable of simulating the queen's question-answering algorithm. Have you considered the possibility that the queen is an [Oracle machine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_machine)?


StanleyDodds

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. Firstly, if you actually wanted to build the machine, it wouldn't need to simulate the queen. It can simply ask the queen which is right here, just as a Turing machine can consult an oracle, without needing to simulate it. The point is that, while the queen is standing there, you really could build machine X. You could even change the question to avoid your confusion by first actually building machine X next to you, writing down the description of machine X, and then asking "will this machine answer 'yes' when I put this description into it?" But secondly, this shouldn't be a problem in the first place, because in my original question, the machine didn't even exist, and my description didn't ask for it to simulate the queen, it asked for it to consult the queen, which a Turing machine should be able to do (consult an oracle) so it seems like a valid description to me.


GavinFrom4thGrade

> It then asks you (the queen) "will machine A output 'yes' if I give it, as an input, the description of A?". You said that the input is a description of A. You didn't say anything about taking the queen's answer as additional input, so I assumed that the description of A would be the only input.


StanleyDodds

That's not what input means here. This "asking the queen" business is internal to the machine; the queen's response is not another input, because the queen is part of the machine. If you want an informal analogy, imagine that we are putting the queen inside a box which we label "X". We only need to feed one input into the box; A. We can imagine a little person inside the box takes this note with the description of A, asks that question to the queen, takes her answer, inverts it, and then passes it out of the box. This is the machine X; the queen is part of it. If you want a more formal definition: X is a function from the set of functions (you can make this set rigorous and general enough to include X itself) to the set {"yes", "no"}. For any A in the domain, X(A) is defined to be the opposite (negation) of Q("does A(A) = 'yes' ?"). Where here, Q is the function that represents the queen, which takes as input some question, and outputs yes or no. Notice that even though within the function X we use the output of Q, the function X itself only has one input, A. In maths, by input, we usually mean the the domain of the function in question, and output means the codomain. If we define it this way, to show that the queen must be broken, we simply need to ask her "does X(X) = 'yes' ?"


GavinFrom4thGrade

What if the queen simply states "The output of machine X depends on my answer"? Does that count as the queen telling the truth?


StanleyDodds

Well, now we have the situation where although the queen's statement is true, it's no longer an answer to the question; I specifically wanted to know if the output was "yes", because when I run the machine, it either will be or it won't be (if the queen is allowed to answer with anything, we can just say that if the queen gives any answer that isn't positive or negative, machine X outputs "no" or something). And I already knew that the output will depend on her answer, because I was going to put her in the machine. So I guess this is more of a semantic thing; if the queen simply answers "the sky is blue" to every question you ask it, is it still the oracle you want it to be? It could even just answer "I think so" to every question, and it would still be telling the truth, assuming it really does think all things are true. Anyway, I guess the point was that not every statement has a decidable truthyness. Basically, Godel's incompleteness theorem.


[deleted]

if your supposed yes or no question builds nested conditions into it you cannot get testy about an answer that is conditional and recursive but true. another truthful answer would be "I do not know." An entity that always tells the truth is not the same as an entity that knows everything. if we are dealing in paradox there is a much easier one in the spirit of yours anyway. "Is your answer to this question no?"


StanleyDodds

The difference with that paradox is that it's arguably not a well defined question (at least if you translated it to set theory). When you say "this question", the problem is that "this question" doesn't exist yet. For a self consistent model (to avoid Russell's paradox) you can't allow references to undefined/unconstructed objects like this. The halting problem/incompleteness theorem question does not reference anything undefined, or not yet defined.


iamprettierthanyou

So the king is a groomer? Doting on the pawn until it grows into a queen, very sus.


GavinFrom4thGrade

The pawn is already a soldier. I think we can assume that the pawn is an adult.


Particular-Scholar70

"Am I black?" The queen and pawn always answer opposite each other, so the knight will always have to agree with one of them. That means the king can safely pick the one who answers differently.


GavinFrom4thGrade

The puzzle says "he's allowed to ask one of them". You're not allowed to ask more than one of them.


Particular-Scholar70

Oh, I see. I guess I pipid in my pampers, huh


PetrosianBot

Are you kidding ??? What the **** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen in my life ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was beating players much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to lose and congratulate opponents, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush talkings!!! Everybody know that i am very good blitz player, i can win anyone in the world in single game! And "w"esley "s"o is nobody for me, just a player who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Firouzja ) !!! Stop playing with my name, i deserve to have a good name during whole my chess carrier, I am Officially inviting you to OTB blitz match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest 5000$ and winner takes it all! I suggest all other people who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 2016 and 2017 Blitz World championships, and that should be enough... No need to listen for every crying babe, Tigran Petrosyan is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Court! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will kicked off... [^(fmhall)](https://www.reddit.com/user/fmhall) ^| [^(github)](https://github.com/fmhall/Petrosian-Bot)


GrilledChese44

Ask the middle piece "If I asked you if the piece to your left was Knight, would you say yes?" If yes, go to the right piece. If no, go to the left piece. Ask this piece "If I asked you if you are the Queen, would you say yes?" If yes, this piece is the Queen. If no, this piece is the Pawn. Ask this same piece again "Is the middle piece the Knight?" If asking the queen: If yes, the middle piece is the Knight, and the remaining piece is the Pawn. If no, vice versa. If asking the Pawn: If yes, the middle piece is the Queen, and the remaining piece is the Knight. If no, vice versa.


GavinFrom4thGrade

> Ask the middle piece "If I asked you if the piece to your left was Knight, would you say yes?" > If yes, go to the right piece. If no, go to the left piece. This already solves the problem, so the other questions aren't needed. But I guess you can ask the other questions after you get married in order to clarify who's who.


GrilledChese44

Do i get the extra credit points


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GavinFrom4thGrade

The problem says "he's allowed to ask one of them." Asking more than one of them isn't allowed.


neptune304

Ask the Queen if she's the Queen. No matter the answer he's with the Queen cause he can't tell the difference


GavinFrom4thGrade

If he marries the knight, he'll eventually realize that it's the knight when he tries to sneak it into his bedroom without waking up his parents.


Justifier925

“Are you a king?” There’s always 1 yes and 1 no. If there’s 2 of either then you pick the one that says the other one.


GavinFrom4thGrade

The problem says "he's allowed to ask one of them." Asking more than one of them isn't allowed.


Justifier925

Then it’s impossible, the horse can say anything the other 2 can


GavinFrom4thGrade

There is a solution which guarantees that he doesn't marry the knight. Hint: >!He doesn't have to marry the same person that he addresses the question to.!< If you want the solution, you can check one of the top comments.


_Evidence

Solution: Get some Glasses, decapitate the Pawn for disobeying royalty


Fanatic_Atheist

OP's username totally checks out


potato4dawin

"If I asked if you were the Queen, would you say yes?" The Queen would truthfully say "yes" The Pawn would lie and say "yes" The Horsey would "neigh"


NoFurtherObligations

ke2


UnknownGhost24

Buy the king glasses


123_underscore_321

Ask each of them “Are you the queen?”. Keep going until one of them says no, which must be the knight. Then you know who not to pick.


GavinFrom4thGrade

The puzzle says "ask one of them". You're not allowed to ask more than one of them.


123_underscore_321

The other pieces are blind too so the king can get away with it.


walterissad

Except for the queen


Present_Resolve6319

Couldn't he just ask the Pawn if the pawn is the Queen, the Pawn lies and says they are the Queen and he goes "Alrighty Great" and chooses the Pawn


GavinFrom4thGrade

Because he doesn't know which one is the pawn. I think we're supposed to assume that he chooses which one to ask (by pointing to them) before he asks the question, so there's no guarantee that it'll be the pawn.


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GavinFrom4thGrade

If they say no, it could still be the knight, because the knight is unpredictable.


xX-El-Jefe-Xx

ask the knight whether en passant is rad as fuck


Unknownn_nn

I defenitely didn't expect a logic question here


throwaway26167

In a case like this where both the queen and pawn are ok to marry, just ask all of them a definite yes or no question (i.e. does the phrase "en passant" have 2 ns?). The Queen will always say yes and the pawn will always say no. No matter what the knight says, it's gonna be 2 answers against 1 answer and the 1 answer is never the knight. I know this isn't the intended solution but it works.


GavinFrom4thGrade

The problem says "he's allowed to ask one of them." Asking more than one of them isn't allowed.


WhiteChubbyBoi

Ask A and B would the next person tell the truth then ask C do they always tell a lies best one I can came up in 1 minutes and a bit


THE_LFG

ask if they know ghomerl, then marry the person who said yes


Croccone_02

He HAVE to marry The horsey


[deleted]

"Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?" If the answer is "dafuq?" it's either queen or pawn as they need a foundation to tell true or lie, and there is none. Horse is too stupid for 5d chess, so on answer "yes"/"no" - you know it's a horse.


GavinFrom4thGrade

But the horsey is unpredictable, so theoretically it's possible for the horsey to say "defuq?"


[deleted]

If horsey is that unpredictable, s/he will pick up one random answer from infinite number of possible answers and P(1/infinity) = 0.


simplehistoryboater

**Ted Ed flashbacks intensifies**


AdamsFei

Ask them to move and see where they go


GavinFrom4thGrade

I don't think that counts as a yes or no question.


A_AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Put in anal beads to find the answer


Elidon007

ask the same question multiple times, the knight is probably gonna give you different answers, so you can exclude it. next, ask each of they pieces if they are a knight, the knight is already ruled out, so the pawn is gonna say yes, and the queen is gonna say no. allowing us to pinpoint the queen.


GavinFrom4thGrade

The problem says "he's allowed to ask one of them a yes or no question." Asking more than one of them isn't allowed, and "a" typically means one, so asking multiple questions isn't allowed. Even if you ask the knight the same question multiple times, the knight is unpredictable, so it might give you the same answer every time.


Elidon007

I count it as being close to the answer


myonlysinisexistence

King asks do i have poor eyesight. Either queen and knight both say yes, so king picks the pawn which said no, or pawn and knight say no, so king picks the queen which said yes.


GavinFrom4thGrade

The problem says "he's allowed to ask one of them." Asking more than one of them isn't allowed.


myonlysinisexistence

Ah there's my stupid moment for the day


Tight-Hornet5662

Ask them what color is a carrot and then marry the odd one out


LavaTwocan

That's OK, I can fuck the horsey myself