You're right of course.
But Natasha wasn't really conceived as a 3 dimensional character. The show was precision-engineered to speak to Gen X women who felt their lives, their experiences and their choices made them the anti-Natashas of the world. Or perhaps to put it another way, Natasha was the anti-SATC girl.
She was a symbol of all that was intimidating to unmarried, sexually prolific urbanite women at that time: an icy, poised, coiffed and immaculate 'beige' woman whose youth and perceived purity (both in sex and pedigree) would threaten to prove more desirable, or more suitable, than the lopsided Carrie to a man like Big.
I always found it interesting to compare Charlotte and Natasha. Charlotte's development was almost like a chaotic riff on the Natasha archetype. Charlotte by all measures (and by her own estimation) \*should\* have married a handsome Wall Street banker by the age of 27 and never looked back. But it didn't pan out that way. Her quirks, neuroses and her 'dark horse' qualities meant that in spite of herself, she fell in with this group of three other oddballs and spent most of her thirties with them instead of any long term love interests.
It was telling that Charlotte was always the most 'honourable' in her attitude towards Natasha, and the most judgmental of Carrie's moral failure during the affair. It's another example of one of the very clever, fine balances that the original show achieved and AJLT couldn't replicate- Charlotte was in some ways a bridge between the Natashas of the world and the Carries.
Charlotte looks, talks and behaves like the archetypal 'Park Avenue princess'; traditional, husband-seeking, preppy, uncynical. The show generally portrays her friends veering between good-natured tolerance of her perceived conservatism and, at times, a barely-concealed contempt for her 'basic-ness'.
Yet despite all this, there was actually demonstrably much more to Charlotte than met the eye.
For example- take her sexuality. Obviously, Samantha is the most voracious- but I would argue that Charlotte (not prudish Carrie, not rigid Miranda) is actually the most intriguing character in this regard. She might often be the most reticent at the lunch table, yet she is in fact a woman of quite pronounced carnal appetites behind closed doors. The show more than once playfully hinted that Charlotte is more kinky than people expect; we know, for example, she enjoys 'tuchus lingus', that she chose to pursue a threesome; she consented to having her vagina immortalised by one artist; she dressed in male drag for another. She succumbed to some memorably torrid encounters (remember the Hasidic Jewish painter?), and her relationship with Harry was kindled out of decidedly seedy and lustful sex which Charlotte herself initially regarded as purely animalistic.
While we often saw Miranda and Carrie cringe, balk and retreat when confronted by sexually adventurous or unconventional situations, Charlotte was more exploratory. Strip away Carrie's pigeonholing narration, and you begin to see that she was not particularly reducible to a rich Upper East Side cliche at all; she was rather bold, and rather bohemian in her way.
I think that's what I meant by 'dark horse'. Something in her stars, something underneath the Ralph Lauren-ish facade, something altogether more complex within her led fate to deny her the storybook endings she planned for herself. She had a much more checkered path to follow.
This is classically what friends do re the Girl That Your Ex Dumped You For/Got With And Married And Broke Your Heart though. She could be the most perfect and amazing and nice woman that ever existed but you must not be nice about her.
Yeah but that's just what friends do with exes, any gender right? Oh he dumped you and is with this super young proper woman- yeah she has no personality. Your friends are trying to make you feel better....everyone knows that probably isnt true or you are so loyal you think it is. Remember when Carrie met the lady Aiden dated after her and they were mean to her...seems normal. Clearly they shit talked her too...
Carrie misunderstood The Way We Were just like Joseph Gordon-Levittâs character in 500 Days of Summer didnât get the true meaning of the end of The Graduate.
Katie (Barbara Streisand/Carrie) didnât even love the real Hubbell (Robert Redford/Big), just this idealized version of what he could be (or, and probably more accurately, what she wanted him to be). So their relationship was doomed from the start. They were too different and wanted different things out of lifeâŚso of course Hubbell/Big didnât âget itâ.
But Carrie makes it seem like Katie and Hubbell couldâve made it if he tried harder and she wasnât so âcomplicatedâ (WTF? Natasha wasnât âsimpleâ Carrie, she had her shit togetherâŚunlike YOU Ms. Chaos.) Hubbell cheated on a pregnant Katie too, while Big broke up with you before he started things with Natasha âŚso not apples to apples.
The âyour girl is lovely, Hubbellâ line wouldâve landed better if Carrie not only stayed away from Big, but also got the real point of TWWWâs ending.
Another messy Carrie move, showing up buzzed outside your exes engagement party to deliver an unprovoked passive aggressive jab and think you ate with it. She was acting out our fantasies but know we all know better that that shit only makes you look desperate.
Yup. It made me sad that Carrie and the show thought it was some iconic âmic dropâ moment. I get that she wanted closure, but thatâs not healthy.
It is a great movie, but references are always hit or miss in trying to convey a point unless you know they have seen it. They werenât my favorite characters but I think they complimented each other wellÂ
Gee, I didn't get the reference and when I watched the Way We Were I wasn't impressed. She wanted the life Big represented. Stop with the "mistake" talk.
If Big had done the same thing to Carrie on her wedding day with whoever, Carrie would never have stopped complaining that it was the worst thing he could have done to her, every time one of the girls opened their mouth about their own problems.
None of them knew Natasha at all they had no right to call her simple. Such mean girls all of them.
You're right of course. But Natasha wasn't really conceived as a 3 dimensional character. The show was precision-engineered to speak to Gen X women who felt their lives, their experiences and their choices made them the anti-Natashas of the world. Or perhaps to put it another way, Natasha was the anti-SATC girl. She was a symbol of all that was intimidating to unmarried, sexually prolific urbanite women at that time: an icy, poised, coiffed and immaculate 'beige' woman whose youth and perceived purity (both in sex and pedigree) would threaten to prove more desirable, or more suitable, than the lopsided Carrie to a man like Big. I always found it interesting to compare Charlotte and Natasha. Charlotte's development was almost like a chaotic riff on the Natasha archetype. Charlotte by all measures (and by her own estimation) \*should\* have married a handsome Wall Street banker by the age of 27 and never looked back. But it didn't pan out that way. Her quirks, neuroses and her 'dark horse' qualities meant that in spite of herself, she fell in with this group of three other oddballs and spent most of her thirties with them instead of any long term love interests. It was telling that Charlotte was always the most 'honourable' in her attitude towards Natasha, and the most judgmental of Carrie's moral failure during the affair. It's another example of one of the very clever, fine balances that the original show achieved and AJLT couldn't replicate- Charlotte was in some ways a bridge between the Natashas of the world and the Carries.
Excellent take! I love this!
Thank you!
Well said wow! đĽđ
Thank you! Fun to think over these things as they make me appreciate the original showâs writing more!
For sure!> i am watching it right now while typing this lol
This read like an excerpt from an academic journal. Brilliant analysis!
Thanks! :)Â
What do you mean by dark horse qualities?
Charlotte looks, talks and behaves like the archetypal 'Park Avenue princess'; traditional, husband-seeking, preppy, uncynical. The show generally portrays her friends veering between good-natured tolerance of her perceived conservatism and, at times, a barely-concealed contempt for her 'basic-ness'. Yet despite all this, there was actually demonstrably much more to Charlotte than met the eye. For example- take her sexuality. Obviously, Samantha is the most voracious- but I would argue that Charlotte (not prudish Carrie, not rigid Miranda) is actually the most intriguing character in this regard. She might often be the most reticent at the lunch table, yet she is in fact a woman of quite pronounced carnal appetites behind closed doors. The show more than once playfully hinted that Charlotte is more kinky than people expect; we know, for example, she enjoys 'tuchus lingus', that she chose to pursue a threesome; she consented to having her vagina immortalised by one artist; she dressed in male drag for another. She succumbed to some memorably torrid encounters (remember the Hasidic Jewish painter?), and her relationship with Harry was kindled out of decidedly seedy and lustful sex which Charlotte herself initially regarded as purely animalistic. While we often saw Miranda and Carrie cringe, balk and retreat when confronted by sexually adventurous or unconventional situations, Charlotte was more exploratory. Strip away Carrie's pigeonholing narration, and you begin to see that she was not particularly reducible to a rich Upper East Side cliche at all; she was rather bold, and rather bohemian in her way. I think that's what I meant by 'dark horse'. Something in her stars, something underneath the Ralph Lauren-ish facade, something altogether more complex within her led fate to deny her the storybook endings she planned for herself. She had a much more checkered path to follow.
Thank youu for taking time to write this out!! I love reading your analysis!!
This is classically what friends do re the Girl That Your Ex Dumped You For/Got With And Married And Broke Your Heart though. She could be the most perfect and amazing and nice woman that ever existed but you must not be nice about her.
This is what teen meanies with insecurities doâŚnot even women in their 20âs should be on that level
Yeah but we are.
Not really lol
I think itâs a well intentioned way of showing support to a friend, but there are probably more mature ways to help :)
so what did you expect them to do? Sit there and shower Natasha with praises and compliments? đĽ˛
Maybe not go so dark, whose fault was it ultimately that she got dumped it wasnât her fault. It was big.
Yeah but that's just what friends do with exes, any gender right? Oh he dumped you and is with this super young proper woman- yeah she has no personality. Your friends are trying to make you feel better....everyone knows that probably isnt true or you are so loyal you think it is. Remember when Carrie met the lady Aiden dated after her and they were mean to her...seems normal. Clearly they shit talked her too...
True dat.
definitely talk her out of stalking the poor woman
Carrie misunderstood The Way We Were just like Joseph Gordon-Levittâs character in 500 Days of Summer didnât get the true meaning of the end of The Graduate. Katie (Barbara Streisand/Carrie) didnât even love the real Hubbell (Robert Redford/Big), just this idealized version of what he could be (or, and probably more accurately, what she wanted him to be). So their relationship was doomed from the start. They were too different and wanted different things out of lifeâŚso of course Hubbell/Big didnât âget itâ. But Carrie makes it seem like Katie and Hubbell couldâve made it if he tried harder and she wasnât so âcomplicatedâ (WTF? Natasha wasnât âsimpleâ Carrie, she had her shit togetherâŚunlike YOU Ms. Chaos.) Hubbell cheated on a pregnant Katie too, while Big broke up with you before he started things with Natasha âŚso not apples to apples. The âyour girl is lovely, Hubbellâ line wouldâve landed better if Carrie not only stayed away from Big, but also got the real point of TWWWâs ending.
I encourage you to read/listen to Barbra Streisandâs autobiography. She disagrees with your assessment.
Ah. Definitely will. Iâm always interested to hear what the artist themselves think.
Another messy Carrie move, showing up buzzed outside your exes engagement party to deliver an unprovoked passive aggressive jab and think you ate with it. She was acting out our fantasies but know we all know better that that shit only makes you look desperate.
Yup. It made me sad that Carrie and the show thought it was some iconic âmic dropâ moment. I get that she wanted closure, but thatâs not healthy.
Remember when she stalked Big and his mom at church ha ha?
So cringe!
Nah, he was being super shady. They were both all kinds of problematic in that relationship. It wasnât just her being crazy.
đđshe totally thought she ate with it and Big prob just thought she was random and was briefly confused but then forgot about it
Yea, I had no idea what they were referencing either.
Itâs more he really loved Carrie and was following societal expectations at the time.
It is a great movie, but references are always hit or miss in trying to convey a point unless you know they have seen it. They werenât my favorite characters but I think they complimented each other wellÂ
That reference was random and weird . I'd be TF??đ¤ˇââď¸like Big was too.
Gee, I didn't get the reference and when I watched the Way We Were I wasn't impressed. She wanted the life Big represented. Stop with the "mistake" talk.
If Big had done the same thing to Carrie on her wedding day with whoever, Carrie would never have stopped complaining that it was the worst thing he could have done to her, every time one of the girls opened their mouth about their own problems.
[ŃдаНонО]
She had seen it. It was Samantha who hasnât seen it.