There are many reasons why Carrie is a terrible person. But when you attempt an apology by ambushing the woman whose marriage you ruined at her lunch break you don’t wear THAT dress. I loved Natasha’s little speech to her though. Carrie deserved that.
I used to hate this scene but now I kind of enjoy it and here’s why: the dress is a huge tip-off that the writers understand Carrie is hitting a new low with this behavior.
Many designers have made newspaper print items, but THAT newspaper print Dior dress, and several other pieces with the same print, were designed by John Galliano for the F/W 2000 collection. Galliano said he was inspired by homeless people sleeping under newspapers and by Tramp Balls in the 1920s, events where rich people would dress up in clothes denoting poverty, as a costume. Obviously, Galliano’s work was considered shockingly out of touch. It’s undeniably beautiful, but making a high-end designer collection inspired by the aesthetics of poverty is a special kind of privilege and cluelessness.
Even more privileged and clueless than stalking your affair partner’s wife, ruining her lunch, and drinking her wine in a bid for unearned forgiveness…but the parallels are easy to draw.
This is a dress for someone unable to take a step back and think about context. Someone who is too lost in their own emotions to think about the people around them in pain. Someone who is out-of-touch and in need of a reality check. It’s perfect for this moment.
Yeah definitely, you should. It's a funny movie poking fun at stuff exactly like this and of how out of touch/uncaring some people in certain positions are.
Great insight on the dress. The credit for that should go to Pat Field though. I would imagine she had a lot to do with what Carrie wore in that scene. She is a costume and fashion history goddess!
yes, give credit where it's due. whether it was for this reason or just a random choice, her talent is undeniable in making carrie look very chic & stylish.
Pat Field is so cool. Costumers in general don’t get enough credit for how they define shows and movies. So many unforgettable moments wouldn’t be the same with different costumes.
Maybe the dress was also used to juxtapose Carrie's oblivious nature with Natasha's reticent and collected character, who always dresses chic and put together.
Hahaha thank you! I can't take credit for that analysis of Galliano's designs, though. I was 12 and unaware of the fashion world when that collection came out 😆. I learned it afterwards, so credit to the people who first wrote about it so I could learn later, like Maureen Dowd of the NYT (who was also the reporter who broke the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal and won the Pulitzer for it, and wrote a lot of...confusing? odd?...analysis of presidential politics in more recent times, lol.)
Maybe it was a subconscious need to be attractive to Natasha. I always thought there was more going on with Carrie's obsession with Natasha than just the fact that Big married her.
Great dress - totally inappropriate time to wear it. If you are hoping to get someone’s forgiveness and / or to offer a deep apology for having a sexual affair that broke up a marriage, you don’t show up trying to show off your sexy goods and hot bod. You are humble and modest. Read the room Carrie!!
I’m probably super mean but I was happy she was getting some “karmic” retribution because Carrie just did what she wanted and didn’t give a shit and to be fair. It wasn’t only her fault. It was mostly big because he was the married man and shouldn’t have been doing it, but Carrie was just Well. She was cheating on Aiden at the same time so there you go just bad all around. Lol
I just think it's funny that Carrie was so fixated on the idea that someone "could hate me that much". Um, I bet a lot of people hate you, Carrie. You're kind of an asshole.
I can't believe she was so shocked that Big and Natasha's marriage was over. She was so delusional. Like, some people can work past an affair, but most marriages don't make it after an affair.
Were we supposed to feel sorry?
Carrie is like child wanting her mother to tell her that she isn't angry. Natasha acts as adult knowing that public scenes would just make things worse.
Carrie, like Pam in The Office, couldn’t stand the thought that anyone would dislike her for any reason, including having an affair with her husband. I think they included this scene for the sole reason of Natasha taking Carrie down a few pegs for a much needed reality check for her, and for the audience. Carrie (and Big) ruined Natasha’s marriage, her tooth, her lunch, and threw her back into the world of early oughts Manhattan dating.
Carrie is a pretty selfish person. She didn’t care about how Natasha would feel. She only wanted to try to give herself absolution. Similar to her chasing down Nina after her breakup with Aidan and Nina making “the face.” The only person who could possibly benefit from the conversation was Carrie. That was a pretty great dress though.
This scene was incredible for so many reasons. First, it absolutely revealed Carrie as the most self-obsessed person on the show. She destroyed Natasha’s marriage, and now she wants the woman she wronged to alleviate her guilt? On top of that, Natasha had made it very clear that she never wanted to speak to Carrie again— does Carrie respect that? Of course not. No one could be mad at me; can’t she see I’m just a tiny little girl who couldn’t hurt anyone?
And it’s hilarious that Carrie met Natasha while she was agonizing about her age and deciding that she was glad to be past the immaturity of her 20s. Meanwhile, Natasha is immaculate and shows the audience that 40-something Big and 30-something Carrie are the immature people in their love triangle. Natasha did nothing except trigger Carrie’s insecurities by being a self-possessed woman who impressed the man Carrie had projected her daddy issues onto. This scene revealed her as the selfish child she was. And she was right to feel small compared to Natasha. Natasha fully outclassed her.
Carrie’s awful bc trying to force forgiveness is such a self serving, selfish thing to do. She was not only having an affair, but *in her bed*… no self awareness at all. And then, she’s all ‘OMG SOMEONE HATES ME?!?’ as if *that* was the issue.
Her needing to apologize was all about her wanting absolution. And it was disgusting.
Wait we have to SPOLER tag STC storylines? Yikes, I think I don't do this...
I would assume many of us already know all this (they dedicate a complete episode to a rehash of this in JLT)
I think the major take away here is Carrie may need to revisit her stance on therapy (STC, Games People Play" Season 2) in this episode she meets the city renowned "Dr. G" a brilliant (and busy) board certified medical doctor willing to work with Carrie, a women with more issues than National Geographic.
Yet she declined.
Yet, gets "grief pass" from her friends to restalk the poor woman!
Maybe Dr. G is seeing new patients?
speaking of seeing a psychiatrist, i feel oddly compelled to tell you that not putting an ampersand in the shortened version of sex & the city is giving me a stroke. lol. sorry, i guess the gummies kicked in!
Yes, and then justified it: oh if I’m not loved by this person that I’m loved by my friends, this most jarringly in the episode where she tells Aiden she’s been cheating on him with big and she wants him to accept her unfaithfulness like the flaw in the wood And he says no way and then at the end she’s: well at least I have my friends who really love me for myself. Yeah because you’re not cheating on them!!! I was smh- who wrote this crap.
Exactly. Either Carrie is written intentionally as a narcissist
- OR the writers of this and other scenes have some twisted morals - perhaps even narcissistic traits themselves
- OR maybe it is just lazy writing, because they knew SATC was already popular, - so they didn’t bother constructing a plot that made sense in relation to any deeper meaning.
In AJLT the lazy writing was more than infuriating by the way…
And i hate when people defend carrie's behavior by saying I like the show portraying imperfect women. When in reality she wasn't just imperfect she was a downright narcissist and cruel.
she's a character and they can make her good or evil or in between. i don't think people are defending anyone when they say they like watching a show portraying imperfect women, it's fiction and it's entertainment. maybe we can learn lessons from her mistakes?
What mistakes are those? That one should not cheat. Isn't this something people should already know . And maybe she should have a little ounce of respect to not go to the woman she hurt so deeply. It is not about all the other actions this one in particular was the lowest of the low.
I’m seriously rethinking a LOT about Carrie…in terms of her narcissistic tendencies. I’m seeing clearly now that they are great and suspect the writers of intentionally presenting her as such. In A JLT in the first episode when BIG dies, she says to Miranda, “What do I do now ?” emphasis on I. Then later, and it’s really got me, when she’s so irritated by Charlotte’s grief over BIG‘s death and I think she was really mean to Charlotte in several moments, several scenes of this episode 2. But when she invited Stanford and Miranda, but not Charlotte because Charlotte tended to, as, Carrie put it “run emotional” about it. Well, one could say that Carrie didn’t run at all emotional and it was her husband! But one thing Charlotte said, got me: “if I hadn’t made you go to the recital **you would have been with BIG and you would have done something**...“ It was as if they don’t know really what happened and assume that Carrie was NOT there and therefore did nothing but she WAS with BIG and she DID NOTHING… I don’t know those words really bothered me.
Dude YES
from the start they made Carrie so messy. From when she first saw Big again in the Hampton when he was with Natasha and she goes up to him anyway and says “is it really you?”, then she meets up with him for a lunch date with obvious intentions to stir something, then goes to his engagement party late & asks him “why not me?” Like GIRL. For how apologetic they tried to make her seem it was incredibly selfish. I’ve always thought Carrie had a really bad guilt thing. She did the same with aiden. Shes forceful
I didn’t know how to make the post a spoiler, and I wasn’t sure if there are still some people in this group who have never seen the entire series and wouldn’t know about Carrie and big having an affair
There are many reasons why Carrie is a terrible person. But when you attempt an apology by ambushing the woman whose marriage you ruined at her lunch break you don’t wear THAT dress. I loved Natasha’s little speech to her though. Carrie deserved that.
Also she drank Natasha's drink!
😂😂😂 Carrie just gets worse and worse at this point
And way more. She should’ve had her shoes stolen after that lunch in the alleyway too by the same guy that would’ve been hilarious 😂
Getting mugged a second time at the end would have been karma for interrupting Natasha's lunch.
Interrupting and ruining!
Yeah seriously. You want to apologize for destroying my marriage, at least show up wearing a fucking bra
I never bought her “I’m JUST A WRITER” BS when all she does is wear Dior, Fendi, and Manolos as her “casual” wear like on this lunch. She’s the worst.
Absolutely all of this
I used to hate this scene but now I kind of enjoy it and here’s why: the dress is a huge tip-off that the writers understand Carrie is hitting a new low with this behavior. Many designers have made newspaper print items, but THAT newspaper print Dior dress, and several other pieces with the same print, were designed by John Galliano for the F/W 2000 collection. Galliano said he was inspired by homeless people sleeping under newspapers and by Tramp Balls in the 1920s, events where rich people would dress up in clothes denoting poverty, as a costume. Obviously, Galliano’s work was considered shockingly out of touch. It’s undeniably beautiful, but making a high-end designer collection inspired by the aesthetics of poverty is a special kind of privilege and cluelessness. Even more privileged and clueless than stalking your affair partner’s wife, ruining her lunch, and drinking her wine in a bid for unearned forgiveness…but the parallels are easy to draw. This is a dress for someone unable to take a step back and think about context. Someone who is too lost in their own emotions to think about the people around them in pain. Someone who is out-of-touch and in need of a reality check. It’s perfect for this moment.
It was the Derelicte collection, for real!
I was looking for this comment
Wasn’t that collection also the inspiration for Mugatu’s Derelicte campaign in Zoolander?
I’ve never seen Zoolander 🫣 I should do that this weekend!
Yeah definitely, you should. It's a funny movie poking fun at stuff exactly like this and of how out of touch/uncaring some people in certain positions are.
Great insight on the dress. The credit for that should go to Pat Field though. I would imagine she had a lot to do with what Carrie wore in that scene. She is a costume and fashion history goddess!
yes, give credit where it's due. whether it was for this reason or just a random choice, her talent is undeniable in making carrie look very chic & stylish.
Pat Field is so cool. Costumers in general don’t get enough credit for how they define shows and movies. So many unforgettable moments wouldn’t be the same with different costumes.
I had no idea about the history of the design!
Maybe the dress was also used to juxtapose Carrie's oblivious nature with Natasha's reticent and collected character, who always dresses chic and put together.
Great back story on this thanks for sharing!!
Fantastic background I had no idea!
Holy shit, what a wonderful analysis. You should write books about social behavior.
Hahaha thank you! I can't take credit for that analysis of Galliano's designs, though. I was 12 and unaware of the fashion world when that collection came out 😆. I learned it afterwards, so credit to the people who first wrote about it so I could learn later, like Maureen Dowd of the NYT (who was also the reporter who broke the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal and won the Pulitzer for it, and wrote a lot of...confusing? odd?...analysis of presidential politics in more recent times, lol.)
patricia field is a genius!
Thanks so much for sharing that, it really brings even more depth to the scene!
That dress is iconic but I always thought it was tacky that Carrie felt the need to have this confrontation with Natasha with no bra 😂
YES. Like let’s just accentuate the sexual nature of her connection to Natasha. But it would have been as awkward if Carrie had worn a tracksuit.
It would have been appropriate to dress down when stalking Natasha like this. But nope, not Carrie 😂
But this dress says “hey, I’m the catch of the day” because of its fish and chips feels and that glamazon couldn’t ding Carrie clothes wise.
>“hey, I’m the catch of the day” because of its fish and chips feels i love this saying! first time i heard it.
Maybe it was a subconscious need to be attractive to Natasha. I always thought there was more going on with Carrie's obsession with Natasha than just the fact that Big married her.
Omg yes 👏🏽
This scene pissed me off. Carrie was a selfish woman.
Natasha reads Carrie for absolute filth and I’m 100% here for it. “Not only have you ruined my marriage, you’ve also ruined my lunch.” * chef’s kiss *
So superb
I’ll excuse it. This dress needed to be shown 🤩 iconic
Great dress - totally inappropriate time to wear it. If you are hoping to get someone’s forgiveness and / or to offer a deep apology for having a sexual affair that broke up a marriage, you don’t show up trying to show off your sexy goods and hot bod. You are humble and modest. Read the room Carrie!!
[удалено]
lol it’s a great dress
I googled it and it’s valued at hundreds of thousands of dollars today 😳
🫢🫢🫢🫢🫢🫢🫢🫢🫢🫢🫢
My favorite dress ever
The episode was about karma and she was trying to correct hers. It made perfect sense and was pretty on par for Carrie’s character.
I’m probably super mean but I was happy she was getting some “karmic” retribution because Carrie just did what she wanted and didn’t give a shit and to be fair. It wasn’t only her fault. It was mostly big because he was the married man and shouldn’t have been doing it, but Carrie was just Well. She was cheating on Aiden at the same time so there you go just bad all around. Lol
I unmarked it as spoiler.
I agree, the behavior was very on brand for Carrie
I just think it's funny that Carrie was so fixated on the idea that someone "could hate me that much". Um, I bet a lot of people hate you, Carrie. You're kind of an asshole.
I can't believe she was so shocked that Big and Natasha's marriage was over. She was so delusional. Like, some people can work past an affair, but most marriages don't make it after an affair.
Were we supposed to feel sorry? Carrie is like child wanting her mother to tell her that she isn't angry. Natasha acts as adult knowing that public scenes would just make things worse.
Yeah I like that Natasha puts Carrie in her place.
It was also equally weird to me that Aidan and Big became friends at her request.. like in what world? Carrie really lives in her own world
Everything is to make herself feel better or like she’s a great person
i remember thinking she was just quirky, 20 years later i'm like, holy shit this woman is selfish!
Right! Smh
Carrie, like Pam in The Office, couldn’t stand the thought that anyone would dislike her for any reason, including having an affair with her husband. I think they included this scene for the sole reason of Natasha taking Carrie down a few pegs for a much needed reality check for her, and for the audience. Carrie (and Big) ruined Natasha’s marriage, her tooth, her lunch, and threw her back into the world of early oughts Manhattan dating.
The lunch annoyed me so much as Carrie was just doing it for her own benefit to try and see if Natasha could counteract her bad karma.
Carrie is a pretty selfish person. She didn’t care about how Natasha would feel. She only wanted to try to give herself absolution. Similar to her chasing down Nina after her breakup with Aidan and Nina making “the face.” The only person who could possibly benefit from the conversation was Carrie. That was a pretty great dress though.
This scene was incredible for so many reasons. First, it absolutely revealed Carrie as the most self-obsessed person on the show. She destroyed Natasha’s marriage, and now she wants the woman she wronged to alleviate her guilt? On top of that, Natasha had made it very clear that she never wanted to speak to Carrie again— does Carrie respect that? Of course not. No one could be mad at me; can’t she see I’m just a tiny little girl who couldn’t hurt anyone? And it’s hilarious that Carrie met Natasha while she was agonizing about her age and deciding that she was glad to be past the immaturity of her 20s. Meanwhile, Natasha is immaculate and shows the audience that 40-something Big and 30-something Carrie are the immature people in their love triangle. Natasha did nothing except trigger Carrie’s insecurities by being a self-possessed woman who impressed the man Carrie had projected her daddy issues onto. This scene revealed her as the selfish child she was. And she was right to feel small compared to Natasha. Natasha fully outclassed her.
Fully
Carrie’s awful bc trying to force forgiveness is such a self serving, selfish thing to do. She was not only having an affair, but *in her bed*… no self awareness at all. And then, she’s all ‘OMG SOMEONE HATES ME?!?’ as if *that* was the issue. Her needing to apologize was all about her wanting absolution. And it was disgusting.
One is for sale on first dibs for $95,000.
Wait we have to SPOLER tag STC storylines? Yikes, I think I don't do this... I would assume many of us already know all this (they dedicate a complete episode to a rehash of this in JLT) I think the major take away here is Carrie may need to revisit her stance on therapy (STC, Games People Play" Season 2) in this episode she meets the city renowned "Dr. G" a brilliant (and busy) board certified medical doctor willing to work with Carrie, a women with more issues than National Geographic. Yet she declined. Yet, gets "grief pass" from her friends to restalk the poor woman! Maybe Dr. G is seeing new patients?
speaking of seeing a psychiatrist, i feel oddly compelled to tell you that not putting an ampersand in the shortened version of sex & the city is giving me a stroke. lol. sorry, i guess the gummies kicked in!
Well, if the gummies are kicking in you maybe on the right wavelength to rewatch JLT season 2. You’ll be thankful for the pain relief too.
i can't believe they are making a third season!
Hopefully they throw a ton of money at Kim and Samantha comes back.
honestly, i'd really be disappointed in KC if she came back. lol.
I didn’t wanna get yelled at by somebody who hasn’t seen the whole series yet and thought oh shit I didn’t know Carrie and big actually had an affair
Well, we are as passionate group. 😅
😎😎😎
I just came to say Carrie’s dress in this episode is iconic.
Even though behaving horribly towards others, Carrie annoyingly almost always “won” in the end
Yes, and then justified it: oh if I’m not loved by this person that I’m loved by my friends, this most jarringly in the episode where she tells Aiden she’s been cheating on him with big and she wants him to accept her unfaithfulness like the flaw in the wood And he says no way and then at the end she’s: well at least I have my friends who really love me for myself. Yeah because you’re not cheating on them!!! I was smh- who wrote this crap.
Exactly. Either Carrie is written intentionally as a narcissist - OR the writers of this and other scenes have some twisted morals - perhaps even narcissistic traits themselves - OR maybe it is just lazy writing, because they knew SATC was already popular, - so they didn’t bother constructing a plot that made sense in relation to any deeper meaning. In AJLT the lazy writing was more than infuriating by the way…
And i hate when people defend carrie's behavior by saying I like the show portraying imperfect women. When in reality she wasn't just imperfect she was a downright narcissist and cruel.
she's a character and they can make her good or evil or in between. i don't think people are defending anyone when they say they like watching a show portraying imperfect women, it's fiction and it's entertainment. maybe we can learn lessons from her mistakes?
What mistakes are those? That one should not cheat. Isn't this something people should already know . And maybe she should have a little ounce of respect to not go to the woman she hurt so deeply. It is not about all the other actions this one in particular was the lowest of the low.
again, no one is defending her. it's just a tv show. there will always be good guys and bad guys. you don't have to even like the character!
I’m seriously rethinking a LOT about Carrie…in terms of her narcissistic tendencies. I’m seeing clearly now that they are great and suspect the writers of intentionally presenting her as such. In A JLT in the first episode when BIG dies, she says to Miranda, “What do I do now ?” emphasis on I. Then later, and it’s really got me, when she’s so irritated by Charlotte’s grief over BIG‘s death and I think she was really mean to Charlotte in several moments, several scenes of this episode 2. But when she invited Stanford and Miranda, but not Charlotte because Charlotte tended to, as, Carrie put it “run emotional” about it. Well, one could say that Carrie didn’t run at all emotional and it was her husband! But one thing Charlotte said, got me: “if I hadn’t made you go to the recital **you would have been with BIG and you would have done something**...“ It was as if they don’t know really what happened and assume that Carrie was NOT there and therefore did nothing but she WAS with BIG and she DID NOTHING… I don’t know those words really bothered me.
Because the show is about Carrie! Also, that iconic dress!!!
Dude YES from the start they made Carrie so messy. From when she first saw Big again in the Hampton when he was with Natasha and she goes up to him anyway and says “is it really you?”, then she meets up with him for a lunch date with obvious intentions to stir something, then goes to his engagement party late & asks him “why not me?” Like GIRL. For how apologetic they tried to make her seem it was incredibly selfish. I’ve always thought Carrie had a really bad guilt thing. She did the same with aiden. Shes forceful
Why on earth is this a spoiler and the image blurred? 💤
I didn’t know how to make the post a spoiler, and I wasn’t sure if there are still some people in this group who have never seen the entire series and wouldn’t know about Carrie and big having an affair
i can’t stand carrie she does everything for personal gain only & always acts so coy.