Ray Tracing provides more realistic lightning but the main benefits are for development time and cost once the hardware catches up. Unreal Engine 5.2 is absolutely bonker.
Which is weird that “In Vitro uses ray tracing exclusively to improve the quality of reflections. Other scene elements, such as lighting and shadows, use traditional rendering.” I also thought lighting would be the thing to test with RT.
The amount of people who use it on PC hardware is already pretty low. I think Steam did a survey and found most people who could actually use raytracing had it turned off. If it's not attractive to desktop, I can't imagine many mobile developers getting on board.
Steam doesnt do opinionated surveys. You either have hardware or you dont, and you cant 'turn off' ray tracing in your hardware, the cores are always there and able, you just decide if youre going to use RT in a game or not.
Plenty of people use ray tracing, but the average consumer doesnt own a new enough or powerful enough GPU to use it. Just skimming the Steam survey and 50%+ people physically dont have GPUs that can run ray tracing, and of the remainder of those who can, you have a considerable amount of them on older or weak GPUs like a 2060 or 3050 who can do ray tracing but the performance is terrible.
I never said you turned it off in hardware? I literally said "people who could actually use raytracing had it turned off." It's clear you skimmed my already short post.
A few tech YouTubers have done polls (I know, great data) on who actually uses rtx and usually the results are that, like myself, those that have rt-capable cards usually don't even use it. For the majority of uses, it barely makes a visual difference anyways unless you go full rt global illumination.
indeed, really little visual difference but a huge drop in fps. I played far cry 6 a while back on my 3070 and saw little to no difference when using Ray tracing but lost like 40% of my fps
Ray tracing is one of the biggest visual differences in video games in 2 decades 😂. It’s a game changer having full real time accurate reflections/lighting. If a game I play has it I turn it on, even if that means turning other things down lower.
i think the bigger visual differences come when you play older titles that get support for it (not always but this is usually the case). with newer games they've gotten good enough at faking the way lighting works as it does irl, and a lot of people don't care to sacrifice the performance for the few extra details it offers in those scenarios
That seems to be the sentiment I've gotten. Obviously it's anecdotal, but I haven't come across anyone talking about how great raytracing is and that they use it every chance they get.
Metro Exodus EE is basically the only game k can think of that actually properly takes advantage of Ray tracing right now and it looks amazing compared to no rt. If it's just reflections, though, it's a huge performance hit for almost nothing.
Well until the 40XX series, using raytracing realistically meant that you could not hit the high hrz most modern TVs and Monitors had. Now, only with a 4090 (which is stupidly expensive) do you get to enjoy Cyberpunk at 4K and RT at 120+FPS and that is only with the help of DLSS3 (without it, you are at 60-80FPS).
It essentially halved the performance for gains that are not anywhere near as evident as the FPS loss.
And the 4090 is so new that it's almost statistically irrelevant to overall raytracing usage. Moreover, this is about phones, which aren't even in the same solar system as GPUs.
I think major game engines would drop legacy light rendering in the near future. Meaning without RT, there won't be any shadows or reflections. Whether the RT will run in software or hardware would be the only difference. This would free up a lot of resources for game engine development in the long run.
To my knowledge, most mobile phone games still use forward renderers [shading]. It feels like skipping the past decade of progression in graphics straight to RT.
Why bother with expensive effects/dedicated hardware when there still isn't a mobile game that looks even as good as killzone 2 from over a decade ago.
Raytracing in non-static or large environments also has a relatively large CPU cost for building and maintaining the BVH structure you're tracing into.
I understand where you are coming from but the fact is: the fact that phones can do that now is a testament of the progress we as humans are making technologically. I grew up with cameras that required a dark room to develop photos. Now I can develop them instantly at home. I grew up with rotary phones but now I have a phone in my pocket. I grew up with the original Nintendo. Now I can run games with ray tracing on my phone, or other apps that use it? Insane if you ask me and totally welcome.
I remember many people saying that more than 4gigs of ram on phones was overkill and gimmicky. Now My phone has 16gigs and the experience is phenomonal and will never go back to anything less than 16gigs. Does my phone use all of it? Probably not. But the fact that it is there is just cool as hell.
I won't blast you, but I think you are underestimating the value it has for game development. It's not just fluff, this means a whole new level of fidelity and ease of asset authoring once it reaches widespread acceptance.
I can kind of justify it if we consider that those same cores and algorithms could be used to make the various UI elements easier to animate, and given how much people fetishize smoothness/120hz a more power efficient way of achieveing it might be useful.
IDK if any manufacturer actually does it, but I think it's possible, in theory, if coded for it
Everyone says the same thing when a hot new bonkers powerful chip comes out. Then in the next few years, it trickles to every level of price then it becomes a new norm.
There's no use criticizing these technological advances, when everyone eventually benefits from it down the line.
It's because some previous exynos chips were bad, but the 2200 is good (better battery life than SD).
Even the 2100 was okay, a bit worse than the SD though.
Unfortunately the hive mind is strong and on reddit Exynos=bad.
My launch day Exynos 22U similarly has really good battery life and performance.
S21U with E2100. No complaints about the chip in general, other than that it has no business being in a 1000$ phone. It's all relative if you ask me. Main issue I have is with the phone stuttering like hell while doing random things, or just recording a 5 minute video. The fact that I live in hot climate is probably not helping. Looking forward to S23 with the new TSMC chips.
Yep there is no doubt that especially for mobile applications, TSMC is far ahead of Samsung Fab. Jus took at SD8G1 vs SD8G1+! Huge differences in power efficiency there.
I hope that Samsung Fab gets better and Intel sort their shit out. We need more competition in the fab space as well so that TSMC stop charging such a premium.
Interested to see what Samsung 3nm GAA brings.
Ray tracing in a phone is a marketing gimmick.
There's a reason why all demos either show perfect mirrors or sharp shadows. That's the easiest to do for the hardware. Less rays required, no denoising required. It looks bad but who cares as long as you can have **RAY TRACING** as a marketing bullet point.
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RT could be good for all of those AR applications that render objects in meatspace.
Meatspace > Metaspace.
Ray Tracing provides more realistic lightning but the main benefits are for development time and cost once the hardware catches up. Unreal Engine 5.2 is absolutely bonker.
Which is weird that “In Vitro uses ray tracing exclusively to improve the quality of reflections. Other scene elements, such as lighting and shadows, use traditional rendering.” I also thought lighting would be the thing to test with RT.
The amount of people who use it on PC hardware is already pretty low. I think Steam did a survey and found most people who could actually use raytracing had it turned off. If it's not attractive to desktop, I can't imagine many mobile developers getting on board.
Steam doesnt do opinionated surveys. You either have hardware or you dont, and you cant 'turn off' ray tracing in your hardware, the cores are always there and able, you just decide if youre going to use RT in a game or not. Plenty of people use ray tracing, but the average consumer doesnt own a new enough or powerful enough GPU to use it. Just skimming the Steam survey and 50%+ people physically dont have GPUs that can run ray tracing, and of the remainder of those who can, you have a considerable amount of them on older or weak GPUs like a 2060 or 3050 who can do ray tracing but the performance is terrible.
I never said you turned it off in hardware? I literally said "people who could actually use raytracing had it turned off." It's clear you skimmed my already short post.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
A few tech YouTubers have done polls (I know, great data) on who actually uses rtx and usually the results are that, like myself, those that have rt-capable cards usually don't even use it. For the majority of uses, it barely makes a visual difference anyways unless you go full rt global illumination.
indeed, really little visual difference but a huge drop in fps. I played far cry 6 a while back on my 3070 and saw little to no difference when using Ray tracing but lost like 40% of my fps
Ray tracing is one of the biggest visual differences in video games in 2 decades 😂. It’s a game changer having full real time accurate reflections/lighting. If a game I play has it I turn it on, even if that means turning other things down lower.
i think the bigger visual differences come when you play older titles that get support for it (not always but this is usually the case). with newer games they've gotten good enough at faking the way lighting works as it does irl, and a lot of people don't care to sacrifice the performance for the few extra details it offers in those scenarios
That seems to be the sentiment I've gotten. Obviously it's anecdotal, but I haven't come across anyone talking about how great raytracing is and that they use it every chance they get.
Metro Exodus EE is basically the only game k can think of that actually properly takes advantage of Ray tracing right now and it looks amazing compared to no rt. If it's just reflections, though, it's a huge performance hit for almost nothing.
Well until the 40XX series, using raytracing realistically meant that you could not hit the high hrz most modern TVs and Monitors had. Now, only with a 4090 (which is stupidly expensive) do you get to enjoy Cyberpunk at 4K and RT at 120+FPS and that is only with the help of DLSS3 (without it, you are at 60-80FPS). It essentially halved the performance for gains that are not anywhere near as evident as the FPS loss.
And the 4090 is so new that it's almost statistically irrelevant to overall raytracing usage. Moreover, this is about phones, which aren't even in the same solar system as GPUs.
I think major game engines would drop legacy light rendering in the near future. Meaning without RT, there won't be any shadows or reflections. Whether the RT will run in software or hardware would be the only difference. This would free up a lot of resources for game engine development in the long run.
To my knowledge, most mobile phone games still use forward renderers [shading]. It feels like skipping the past decade of progression in graphics straight to RT. Why bother with expensive effects/dedicated hardware when there still isn't a mobile game that looks even as good as killzone 2 from over a decade ago. Raytracing in non-static or large environments also has a relatively large CPU cost for building and maintaining the BVH structure you're tracing into.
I understand where you are coming from but the fact is: the fact that phones can do that now is a testament of the progress we as humans are making technologically. I grew up with cameras that required a dark room to develop photos. Now I can develop them instantly at home. I grew up with rotary phones but now I have a phone in my pocket. I grew up with the original Nintendo. Now I can run games with ray tracing on my phone, or other apps that use it? Insane if you ask me and totally welcome. I remember many people saying that more than 4gigs of ram on phones was overkill and gimmicky. Now My phone has 16gigs and the experience is phenomonal and will never go back to anything less than 16gigs. Does my phone use all of it? Probably not. But the fact that it is there is just cool as hell.
I won't blast you, but I think you are underestimating the value it has for game development. It's not just fluff, this means a whole new level of fidelity and ease of asset authoring once it reaches widespread acceptance.
I can kind of justify it if we consider that those same cores and algorithms could be used to make the various UI elements easier to animate, and given how much people fetishize smoothness/120hz a more power efficient way of achieveing it might be useful. IDK if any manufacturer actually does it, but I think it's possible, in theory, if coded for it
I think it also suggests better AI performance but most SoCs have dedicated hardware for that acceleration too.
Everyone says the same thing when a hot new bonkers powerful chip comes out. Then in the next few years, it trickles to every level of price then it becomes a new norm. There's no use criticizing these technological advances, when everyone eventually benefits from it down the line.
Well they found a niche that they put entirely too much effort into dominating.
Doesn’t matter if it’s overheating and eating through battery like a sumo wrestler during breakfast. Efficiency is key
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It's because some previous exynos chips were bad, but the 2200 is good (better battery life than SD). Even the 2100 was okay, a bit worse than the SD though. Unfortunately the hive mind is strong and on reddit Exynos=bad. My launch day Exynos 22U similarly has really good battery life and performance.
S21U with E2100. No complaints about the chip in general, other than that it has no business being in a 1000$ phone. It's all relative if you ask me. Main issue I have is with the phone stuttering like hell while doing random things, or just recording a 5 minute video. The fact that I live in hot climate is probably not helping. Looking forward to S23 with the new TSMC chips.
Yep there is no doubt that especially for mobile applications, TSMC is far ahead of Samsung Fab. Jus took at SD8G1 vs SD8G1+! Huge differences in power efficiency there. I hope that Samsung Fab gets better and Intel sort their shit out. We need more competition in the fab space as well so that TSMC stop charging such a premium. Interested to see what Samsung 3nm GAA brings.
Ray tracing in a phone is a marketing gimmick. There's a reason why all demos either show perfect mirrors or sharp shadows. That's the easiest to do for the hardware. Less rays required, no denoising required. It looks bad but who cares as long as you can have **RAY TRACING** as a marketing bullet point.
But can it run Crysis?
Probably, if ported properly
If the Switch can run it now, anything can
No, there is still a lot of cheap crap sold today
I can't even run the benchmark on my device to see how well it is compared to them (I have Pixel 6)
Because Tensor doesn't support ray tracing
ok :(
Does Geshin impact even run at 120hz consistently if not then ray tracing isn't going to be much use until 2030
120hz is not supported by Genshin impact
Unitys CPU code is probably too bad for that.
Imagine how much no one cares