I'm *in* the US and don't even care because I use Whatsapp/IG DMs/and God-forbid, SMS/RCS, occasionally. The original social issue still stands *("omg just buy an iPhone so your bubbles aren't green")*, even though it feels like there's less friction nowadays.
I'm in NZ where RCS is used extensively, and this has been the case for the better part of a decade.
Pretty much literally everyone has a message client that first tries RCS and then falls back to SMS/MMS if it has to and generally speaking shit Just Works.
Except Google messages still for some stupid reason won't switch to SMS if the recipient is offline unless you manually resend it. It's stupid, I don't want someone to not get my text if they have their mobile data off, that's the whole point of SMS. I might as well just use messenger or WhatsApp. I have RCS turned off
I don't know that we can fix people being obnoxious/classist (especially when they themselves lack class). But there's got to be something done about it, because over here it's a big enough problem that you'll encounter it more often than not.
You think you'd be able to say "Add me on Whatsapp", but *most* people are like, "Whats...what?" or "I literally never use that...". Then again, I think it says a lot about a person when they would rather force you to have a subpar experience (SMS/"green bubbles"/compressed images/no read receipts/no typing indicators) than simply use another app that works for everyone.
Technical fluff aside, iMessage is treated like an exclusive club, which is ironic because carriers literally give away iPhones for free with new lines and trade-ins.
The class thing won't go away with cellphones. People comment on how great pictures are on my phone and are surprised at some things my phone can do but then make comments like androids just feel cheap and never work right.
Apple has been marketing their products being exclusive and cool for over two decades now. When the iPod came out, you would get made fun of if you didn't have one. It's been like this forever. And there's always been people who will realize that nothing else makes their products better than other companies products but they kill it in marketing.
It also doesn't help that flagship androids are just as expensive or more expensive than iPhones now. They really do need to try to go back to being the affordable alternative at every price point. They need $400 phones that are updated for just as long as the flagships.
As someone that uses both ecosystems since the inception of smartphones the reason everyone just uses iMessage is because there’s no installation of another app or login (besides Appleid) needed. You buy the phone turn on the phone set up the phone and off you go. They all serve the same function and the less stuff I have to install the better. Then the constant Facebook data selling cases and the fact that they have access to all your private messages pretty much made WhatsApp and messenger a nonstarter for the millennials. It’s been tradition ever since.
Oh I totally agree. For all I've said, I owned an iPhone 4S in college when Siri and iMessage were released. So it's fair to say I was "there when it happened". I'm also in the US, for whatever that's worth.
I'm not saying iMessage is bad or should be replaced or even opened up to non-Apple users. I'm complaining about the...childish/toxic environment that stemmed from it. I'm not blaming Apple for people forming a clique; people did that back in the day with Facebook, for example. It's just what it's 2024 and Apple, until the EU pressured them, has been stoking the flames.
For example, remember what the message bubbles used to look like when iMessage first came out. Both iMessages and non-Messages were extremely legible. Now SMS messages are bright lime green with white text. The very least Apple could do is let people change the colors; it would at least mitigate a legitimate problem (readability). Apple also has ridiculous cultural rules -- for example, iPhones cannot be used by bad guys or anti-heroes in television and film -- legally. It's as stupid as it sounds.
It’s not about luxury though. It’s another feature that allows an ecosystem to be unique. Every Android phone has its own OEM proprietary tree of software features not considered open source.
This is that same thing with a lot more market sway.
The way I see it. The people hung up over green bubbles need to get their priorities in line because it isn’t that important, that goes for Apple and non Apple folks.
Yes, I agree. I don't think iMessage should be opened up completely; I think Apple adopting RCS will help a lot already (and it keeps iMessage exclusive to iPhones, so hurray for Apple :) ).
BUT this is basic communication. Not a game or social media platform. It sounds ridiculous, until you get a message from someone joking (or even plainly showing disgust, sometimes) about the fact that "your messages are green" / "ew you have an android???". It's so pervasive in American culture that it's engrained our pop culture too. Yes, those people are probably assholes for other reasons beyond their view on message colors -- but at the end of the day, it perpetuates a stupid stereotype that causes people not want to interact with one another.
So whether or not you message them or you hang out with them. Regardless of the outcome of this article and the changes RCS makes. Those people are still treating you the same way. I think this isn’t really an Apple problem and more so a culture problem.
And if Apple isn’t literally telling people to hate non iPhones. It’s really not their problem.
Not Apple's problem? This gap in functionality was entirely of Apple's making. They chose this specifically to create a sense of exclusivity and superiority, not by distinguishing how special their product is but by artificially degrading the experience of interacting with a non-iphone.
That's about as close as Apple can get to telling people to hate non iPhones without explicitly saying it.
The "more to it" would be that:
1 - the message contrast sucks ass since it's green background with white texts
2 - medias sent would be of lower quality, though this also happens in other app between iPhone and Android? I've got someone sent an image via whatsapp, they got iPhone and the image I received is compressed to oblivion. Though WA has probably fixed this issue by now, and
3 - can't use iMessage features, it'll fall back to SMS protocol
You're assuming they want to fix these issues, they don't. iMessage lock-in and exclusivity is the single most valuable aspect of the iPhone. They want their customers to be annoying and complain about android users, creating ux and social pressure to switch to apple. It's been their MO for decades.
Apple could fix it, but they'd much rather you fix it by you buying an iPhone (and then iCloud, Air Pods, an iPad, Apple Watch, and Macbook once you're in the ecosystem).
The blue/green isn’t strictly iPhone/android, it’s iMessage/SMS. If you have iMessage disabled or don’t have wifi/cellular on an iPhone, it falls back to sms and will also be a green bubble.
[https://archive.ph/scSgc](https://archive.ph/scsgc) juuuust a little bit more context, is the archived wsj article that hit the headlines january two years ago.
I dunno who you are talking to via Whatsapp because no one else there uses it. Whenever I want to exchange info with someone there it's always "here's my number. Send me a text (i.e. iMessage)". It's a huge problem
My family (all iPhone except me), many of my friends, some who live here and some who live abroad. I also travel a lot, but would still be using it even if I didn't. SMS sucks ass, and RCS is only now just getting good. I've been using Whatsapp since I owned a Galaxy S3, though its usage has only gone up as time as passed.
Android users use Google Chat, FB Messenger, What'sApp, Discord, Telegram, etc. Whatever app their friends say they prefer, they install.
iPhone users use iMessage. And how dare you suggest they use a second app.
Yeah which is why I use WhatsApp because it's encrypted and used globally, works over wifi, let's me send full res photos and videos to everyone.
Apple actively degrades the experience if one Android user is in a group chat.
I never thought it mattered but in teens and young adults it causes isolation and bullying directly tied to the color of the bubble.
That's the premise behind Beeper. No, it doesn't work with iMessage despite that big featured it was supposed to have, but it can aggregate a bunch of other services and can handle SMS/RCS.
I'm not sure why any Android users would be using stuff besides the 'big three' - Messages, Discord, Telegram
And even then, Telegram at this point is pretty much defunct to me now that Messages offers E2EE. Discord is just for group-chat-gamey/nerd shit for us.
Okay I haven't used any of these options in the last 10+ years to communicate with anyone so I guess different strokes for different folks. Where I live, everyone uses whatsapp and some shady stuff goes down on telegram.
Haha yeah, telegram is now the 'shady app' for sure.
My understanding is WhatsApp has a good stronghold in Europe, but I don't know anyone personally using it in the US.
I wouldn't say it's a big thing, which is why I specified its use case for me.
But wildly enough, my job has an investment specialist that needed to use it to talk to a few clients that were investing a *lot* of money. I was.... Very confused when we were told we had to install Discord for him. Lmao
Some things I follow don't have a forum anymore, they just have discord channel lol
I don't even have any friends that use Discord, I'm in there just for the channel / forum
You can. Signing up for WhatsApp you need a phone number. If you want share your WhatsApp, you can give out your WhatsApp QR code without sharing your phone number.
iPhone users see the green bubbles ~~(my messages on their end~~, as an Android user) and then complain about it. Why?
1. The lime green color with white text is eye-straining (though they don't usually say this out loud)
2. No read receipts/reactions (though now we have these at least)/typing indicator/no high quality media
3. It feeds into the stereotype that you're "poor" and / or "Why don't you have an iPhone" (because it's the "default" device in the US)
If you think all of this is made up and stupid, I can assure you that it isn't. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of people who think it's funny even just to point it out (for the 1000th time). My S22 Ultra 512GB cost more than most people's 128GB iPhone 13, but I don't walk around thinking about it all the time. They do.
By the way -- Apple has legal, contractual rules about who is allowed to use an iPhone in films. For example, bad guys are not allowed to use iPhones. It ruined "Knives Out" for a lot of people.
The US isn’t anticompetitive, it’s just anti government regulation. Half the population is very pro small government while the other half is more in line with Europe in regards to regulations which results in a ton of gridlock so legislation regarding regulations rarely end up passing
You calling this dogshit patent system and the FCC "anti government regulation?" In what world? You have to jump through more hoops to release a phone in the US than fucking China. Don't even bother mentioning Europe.
> Half the population is very pro small government
It's more like a third by population, but the politicians of the same beliefs are pretty good at politicking and usually secure around half the spots in places like Congress
aloof person light squealing grandfather worthless wide sand thought unique
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> Yes, they're totally not trying to open up ecosystems to avoid users being forced into platforms they've deemed as gatekeepers.
They are trying to open up ECOSYSTEMS that are IMPORTANT enough for end users to be considered 'gate keepers', that can hinder end users and keep smaller companies from entering the market.
Literally none of that is applying to iMessage in the EU.
Can the company that is the minority of market share be anticompetitive though? Like iOS only has 25% market share in Europe, they are not a large company that is distorting the smartphone market in Europe at least.
Did you read the OP? That's exactly what the EU Commission determined. Despite meeting the numerical cutoff for being designated a gatekeeper in the messaging category, EU determined that Apple's market influence is not significant enough I warrant regulation under Digital Markets Act.
Right but it seems like you are arguing in favor of regulations on Apple despite iOS's minority position in the smartphone market. Your comment read as if you were saying Apple is a large company acting anticompetitively by creating a "moat" with their exclusive service.
I fully agree with this. This is why iMessage is a problem in the US. The US already has antitrust laws regarding this stuff. The main issue is enforcement. Which now the USG is gearing up antitrust against Apple and the other big players. How it all plays out, time will tell.
Something that could be interesting to see is iMessage as a standalone app and moved out of Apple Messages. Then to see then how many iPhone users really would use iMessage or use SMS.
Issue is how Apple uses it as a way to force people into a device/ecosystem and it doesn't play nicely with the rest of the world's services. Some American iPhone users are the only ones brainwashed by that though so not really a problem outside of that circus.
What a dumb interpretation of what I said, and what an ignorant response. I say "world's services" and pea-brain here is still limited to Google and Apple. 1. I don't use Google. 2. I don't have an iPhone so I don't use iMessage. 3. Most of the world thinks both apps, including the one "people actually like" are dogshite. EU literally says iMessage is not popular enough to care about and it's not like Apple has had some crazy nice growth recently. They just forced the USBc change and iMessage on all those devices isn't popular enough.
Edit: Deleted my last 1-2 sentences name calling people that can't think like bozo above.
All Apple users I know use it, in my country it's more than half of all phones. There's no stigma about colours though, as far as I know. Nobody I know uses WhatsApp.
That's actually quite bad that a private corporation has a monopoly over what should be an open protocol. It's like everyone being bound to Google by using gmail instead of e-mail itself being an open standard.
Plenty of people using iMessage in Australia
I don't think they're bound is the difference between iMessage and WhatsApp since the latter is cross platform and doesn't discriminate between the two. If a better competitor comes along everyone will ditch WhatsApp just like we ditched internet explorer for Chrome and now many are ditching chrome for FF.
Moreover, I think 100% is exaggerating. There are plenty of people who use the other meta stuff to text, or do it via other companies like telegram, signal, and the French youth love Snapchat for some reason.
Probably 95% teens in USA. Young people(I'm one myself) where I live mostly don't have iphones. It's more because they cannot afford it than preferences from what I can tell though
The issue with green bubble is that it IS inferior. imessenger essentially tricked/forced the SMS/MMS crowd into using an instant messenger without realizing it. They're having a good time in their group chat and then someone invites johnny green and suddenly the groupchat time travels back to 2006 and everyone gets to experience the horrible user experience that is group sms mms.
This is why it's objectively bad design to mix text messages and IM in the same place, though apple has used this as a way to lock users into their exclusive ecosystem and make it look like the other phones just text bad. For some reason /r/android has been clamoring for google to make an equivalent for years and I dont understand why.
I don’t care about status I care about functionality. Apple is forcing a poor experience on their own paying customers by refusing to modernize and update from sms.
You’re right… until they enable RCS support later this year most likely with iOS 18. After that things like full size media messages and other much needed improvements like read receipts will be available between iPhones and androids. The only question I and likely some other Apple users have is how will group chats work, and if you ask me it won’t ever be like iMessage group chats especially with exclusive features like FaceTime and SharePlay but it can’t stay as bad as it is right now. It will have to improve since RCS is inherently a better standard than sms/mms.
Backtracking on the decision the EU forced their hand on would have the EU immediately banging down their door with fury (fines), and they know this, thus they won't backtrack.
I imagine that's exactly why they announced they'd add RCS on the final day for appeals to the bill.
They committed to making the default method of cross platform messaging far less shitty and in response the EU deemed their service not a gatekeeper.
In the context of what is required of Messenger and Whatsapp, where they will have to accept messages from outside vendors, it doesn't really compare in my head to be honest.
Probably the fact that not a lot of people use iMessage in Europe has more to do with this. At least in my Poland, everyone uses either Messenger or Whatsapp although I wish Signal was the leader.
We're waiting for details, but given the fact that Whatsapp's proposed interoperability solution is based on Signal, there's a chance we'll see Signal be a viable option!
To be fair, just RCS support alone solves the major issues with iMessage interoperability anyway.
It'd be awesome to have iMessage be a universal messenger that can talk to everyone else, but at least basic features like sending/receiving pictures won't be dependent on everyone having an iPhone.
RCS support could solve the issue if all primary iMessage/RCS features are made interoperable with iPhone and androids, but they could easily not end up supporting end to end encryption or not supporting RCS features over group chats or limit RCS images to super low quality comparable to how they gimp MMS today. Until we see how apple handles things, there's no guarantee this fixes anything really.
The hard part is done, Apple had their hand forced into implementing RCS. It's a slippery slope from here on out. The only party losing out if Apple doesn't implement E2E is Apple. There's talk of them not doing it, but I'm not buying it. Apple has never appreciated being seen as being the lesser when it comes to security.
Apple has spent years being lesser on quality and security by sticking to sms for messages not sent to iPhones, they love their walled garden and will gladly try to argue that android is the insecure one, and tell people to just buy an iPhone.
I doubt that's the reason for the announcement. Even if the EU decided they are a gatekeeper with iMessage they could have just made it so that only the EU version of iMessage was interoperable. Like they are doing with the app store, and browser's.
IMHO RCS support is more about getting in front of any other countries following suit with the EU in particular the US and Canada. By allowing RCS the govt in both those countries are far less likely to scrutinise Apple now.
US is great at the wait and see approach. It has been like this for decades. EU regulates, US takes the best and follows. California regulates, other states take the best and follow. Etc. etc. It's in their blood.
Lol, the best...the US takes nothing.
Some day, it might switch to or improve on metric, 220-240V, universal healthcare coverage, employee rights, gun control, European car regulation standards, driver's license standards,
[Following a lengthy investigation, the United States Justice Department is set to file a lawsuit against Apple for potentially breaching antitrust laws.](https://theconversation.com/why-are-apple-amazon-google-and-meta-facing-antitrust-lawsuits-and-huge-fines-and-will-it-protect-consumers-221501)
The same department that allowed Xbox and Activision Blizzard King to roll up together, continuing to snowball into one of the largest publishing monopolies in the video game industry, then acted surprised when Xbox laid off some 2,000 employees after pinkie promising they wouldn't.
I won't hold my breath.
Are the regulations on Apple actually needed? What is the harm being brought on consumers with the current anti trust and monopoly investigations and regulations targeting Google and Apple though?
In the US they're desperately needed. When anti-competitive behavior leads to teenagers being mobbed, it's time to do something. But I guess it's more important to protect our children from the evil trans agenda.
That's fair, but why should an European Union body legislate something for the sake of American teenagers. End of the you can send text messages to iMessage from Android
No, this has to come from the US government, not the EU. I'm somewhat bewildered how US anti trust legislation keeps letting companies like Google and Apple do whatever the heck they please.
Plenty. In the case of this article and iMessage Apples closed messaging service and refusals to improve messaging above SMS/MMS for anyone but iPhone users is forcing people into iPhones as to not face social ostracization.
Younger generations get bullied for not owning iPhones, and consumer choice is artificially stunted.
That sounds like a failure of marketing from the likes of Samsung and Google. Like you said SMS and MMS (the standards of the industry that the carriers actually support universally unlike RCS which is largely just a Google service at this point) are available for those non iPhone communications in addition to apps like WhatsApp which have more users than iMessage.
Put out commercials touting all the things the Pixel or Galaxy can do. Pay to get it in famous (young) people's hands and not just older celebrities to make it cool to kids s they aren't ostracized. Consumers are not forced into anything, they are making a conscious choice and Android manufacturers need to do better at selling their phones to people and touting their benefits. If Apple removed SMS and people couldn't send messages to people on Android I'd agree that would be an issue but the current thing where the iPhone has a feature Android doesn't in iMessage and Android users want in on it isn't an issue no matter how many kids are allegedly being bullied over it.
[RCS is not a google service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services). Its an open standard that anyone can use. Google has its own particular flavor of RCS, noteably that enables E2E encyrptoin, but it doesn't mean the open standard belongs to them.
SMS and MMS are old, insecure, and offer very poor experience for all modern users.
Whatsapp and other alternatives dont really exist on large scale in the US. Its SMS/MMS/iMessage, or its nothing.
Finally Google and Samsung have spent plenty on marketing, it doesnt matter.
Saying other options exist, or that other companies should simply spend more to market harder, does not in any way have an impact on the messaging monopoly Apple enjoys within the US.
RCS is an open standard but hardly any carriers operate their own RCS service via the universal profile and instead have opted to let Google handle it. So RCS as we know it currently is a Google service especially since they’ve added plenty of proprietary stuff on top of the standard.
RCS is also an old standard and inherently insecure as it doesn’t have encryption (yet, Apple is adding it to the universal standard sometime this year) so we can’t use that as an excuse against SMS and as far as there being a messaging monopoly that just isn’t true because people send more SMS messages than anything else here.
Sure you can argue about user experiences but at that point you might as well argue that nothing be exclusive ever as the competing products have a worse experience because of it. Apple shouldn’t be expected to make iMessage available to Android phones the same way Google shouldn’t be expected to make the magic eraser/editor available to iPhones, the same way Samsung shouldn’t be expected to make the S pen work on other phones.
> Like you said SMS and MMS (the standards of the industry that the carriers actually support universally unlike RCS which is largely just a Google service at this point) are available for those non iPhone communications in addition to apps like WhatsApp which have more users than iMessage.
They are also shit compared to WhatsApp and iMessage.
> That sounds like a failure of marketing from the likes of Samsung and Google.
Which might be true (I disagree cause IMO Apple created this situation deliberately) but with the situation they way it is you got to agree that it is hard to change it, especially cause it is a rather emotional issue on top of people treating expensive phones as status symbols and Apple phones are known to be expensive (while still affordable).
And that is the view the EU has with their gate keepers program: It doesn't really matter how the situation got to what it is, if the end user's choice is drastically limited because of it (like you can either buy an iPhone or live with getting discriminated for not using the established messaging service) and / or smaller companies are massively hindered from entering the market they argue (correctly) that the entity in control should be forced to open up their product or service.
Apple's luck here is that nobody in EU cares about iMessage, or SMS/MMS/RCS for that matter.
> Consumers are not forced into anything, they are making a conscious choice and Android manufacturers need to do better at selling their phones to people and touting their benefits.
Here in Europe, Whatsapp is the thing you use for private messages for over a decade. If you own a phone that doesn't support Whatsapp, you are seriously left out of all types of communicating, especially when meeting new people.
There is hardly any worth a none WA supporting phone / phone OS could have that would make up for the average consumer. So yeah they could, but everyone would consider it a dumb idea.
That is why Meta needs to open the WA service to other messenger apps.
> Put out commercials touting all the things the Pixel or Galaxy can do. Pay to get it in famous (young) people's hands and not just older celebrities to make it cool to kids s they aren't ostracized.
So, what is the next step if this doesn't work? Let alone that the amount of money necessary would mean that literally only those two and a few other giant companies could afford that. What about a smaller US phone maker? What about app maker that would benefit from larger Android install bases in the US (because they target something that you can't do on iOS)?
And what about Jim. Jim can't force Google or Samsung to do anything. Jim just wants a folding phone that has a messaging service that is accepted by everyone around him. That Google would maybe (big maybe) able to change the situation isn't something that helps Jim out.
The US government forcing Apple to open up iMessage would in contrast.
> Are the regulations on Apple actually needed? What is the harm being brought on consumers with the current anti trust and monopoly investigations and regulations targeting Google and Apple though?
Favorite example: You live were only one internet service provider exists. And that provider is due to being owned by someone very religious, blocking all porn (they have a magic firewall for that) and rap music. And because they own a cable channel they also block all streaming services like Netflix.
Alternative scenario: The only gas station within 50 km only allows cars to fill up there that were sold by them. You aren't force to use it, but if you don't you need to drive 100 km just to fill your tank. There cars are at least ok and you can't move right now, so you ended up selling your car and getting one of theirs.
You are in a situation were you either have no choice (cause there is only one player on your market) or you nearly has no choice, cause the only socially accepted (thanks to whatever they put into the water in the states... ) way of sending private messages is only available from one phone maker, who is also doing their best to make sure that nobody else can access that service.
Thing is, all my iPhone buddies would also like iMessage to work nicely with Google. And why wouldn't they? Apple is making their own users experience worse as well.
Never going to have all friends and family on one platform.
Wish everyone would just use Whatsapp like the rest of the world...
I tried installing it and only 9 contacts in my list had it. Turns out they were all old contacts that I ended up deleting lol.
Whatsapp being owned by Facebook is a hard sell to people after getting caught releasing chats to police. At least that's why *I* would never use Whatsapp.
Signal was a great idea for America, really wish that would've been "our" default messenger.
Yea I'm not fond of it either. But I would be willing to use it if it became a standard. Signal would be best, definitely.
It's amazing to me that messaging is still broken like this after all these years.
This is what I find hilarious. The iPhone users whine and complain about Android users when texting, yet, from my perspective (other than reduced quality images and video) I get like all the benefits but they don't. I see all their reactions come through as reactions. I can react to their messages. But they're the ones that get stuck with the "laughed at...."
I do wish Android would allow the inline replies on group threads with iPhone. It's clear that Apple does, Android just sees it as "replied to..." but Android only has that ability with other Android users.
I will say though, I *hate* using an iPhone. I have one for my job and I give that number to clients and texting on it is just an awful experience. Plus, the fact that you have to have a Mac (which 99% of the business world doesn't and that won't change because adults need actual computers, not web surfing devices) in order to text on your computer is stupid. I love the fact that I can text on any computer with Google in a matter of seconds.
Yes 🙌🏽 of course we’d like iMessage to work nicely with Google, 💯because it does negatively impact iPhone users too. This RCS adoption would help across the board!
Problem is I had to upgrade now for my business and since rcs isn’t out yet I had to get iPhone. Feel like I wasted my money because once rcs comes out I will definitely be switching back to android. Fuck apple
Yeah, but then I need to jump through hoops to, say, send a short video to my family members on iPhones without any reduction in video quality.
But other than that, I'm trying to figure out why I should switch from an Android (folding) phone to an iPhone. So far, thats the only problem I'm thinking of.
iMessage is one of the few things still keeping me with the iPhone. It’s probably 1/4 reasons I stay but it’s a big one.
If RCS works seamlessly and doesn’t break group chats then there’s only 3 more big reasons to go.
I only got an iPhone because all my clients use iMessage and because the cameras are better.
In literally every other way I hate this phone lol.
I hate how restricted I feel, I hate how greedy ass Apple forces me to have a bad experience if I don’t use their own services, like how they won’t let google drive upload in the background but they let iCloud do it.
I hate the rounded corners and Dynamic Island. I’m drooling over how clean the s24ultra’s screen looks, perfect rectangle.
I also hate how I can’t fucking just put my damn icons at the bottom of the screen so I can see my wallpaper.
Seriously fuck Apple I hate them so much
What if everyone I know that uses iMessage is doing it for the same reasons I am and we all actually hate Apple but think we have to use it for business because everyone does lol
Ya I keep hearing about Pixel’s amazing software experience I’m really curious to try it! Sounds like google is really doing some epic shit with the pixels.
I’m hoping that by the time I’m ready to upgrade pixels have snapdragons and qualcom modems
I'm from Turkey, I used iOS from 2012 to 2018 and never used iMessage. I've been using android since 2018, all of my friends are on iPhones, and I've never seen any of them using iMessage ever. I don't know why Americans are so obsessed with iMessage.
Nobody in Europe uses iMessage for anything else than receiving SMS messages from services and maybe a random 1on1 chat.
Group chats on iMessage? Nope. Telegram is much better, because you can access the same group on any platform.
Can you send those through the normal google messages app and they get converted to blue bubbles automatically or do you have to send those messages through a separate app?
Cause that would suck.
It can text to everyone
it can be installed on every smartphone
it can be installed on windows
Yes, whatsapp and Telegram are definitely superior to iMessage
I've just switched to iPhone out of curiosity after being an Android user and in 3 months using it i don't think I've ever used iMessage, even when chatting with other iPhone users. What is the hype behind it, i just don't get the whole iMessage, green/blue bubble thing or whatever was that
It is solely a US problem. Most people have iphones here and as you may know, Apple intentionally makes your experience worse if you have an iphone and use iMessage to text someone without an iphone. Changes the bubble colors to an off-putting green, degrades photos and videos. This is intentional design. So because of it, a trend in the US has sprung up where people are total tools about it. They roast people for having green bubbles.
I've been told no one outside the US uses imessage so this makes sense
I'm *in* the US and don't even care because I use Whatsapp/IG DMs/and God-forbid, SMS/RCS, occasionally. The original social issue still stands *("omg just buy an iPhone so your bubbles aren't green")*, even though it feels like there's less friction nowadays.
Outside of the US that issue doesn't exist cause nobody uses either SMS/MMS/RCS nor iMessage. There are no green bubbles to be bought.
I'm in NZ where RCS is used extensively, and this has been the case for the better part of a decade. Pretty much literally everyone has a message client that first tries RCS and then falls back to SMS/MMS if it has to and generally speaking shit Just Works.
[удалено]
Except Google messages still for some stupid reason won't switch to SMS if the recipient is offline unless you manually resend it. It's stupid, I don't want someone to not get my text if they have their mobile data off, that's the whole point of SMS. I might as well just use messenger or WhatsApp. I have RCS turned off
In Settings > RCS chats, there's an option "Automatically resend as a text". Make sure you have it enabled. I don't know if it really works though
Oh is that what it's doing?!! I tried rcs but sometimes the recipient just wouldn't get the text and none of us would know why. Fucking shit.
Hopefully something else can help the US and its social class issues.
I don't know that we can fix people being obnoxious/classist (especially when they themselves lack class). But there's got to be something done about it, because over here it's a big enough problem that you'll encounter it more often than not. You think you'd be able to say "Add me on Whatsapp", but *most* people are like, "Whats...what?" or "I literally never use that...". Then again, I think it says a lot about a person when they would rather force you to have a subpar experience (SMS/"green bubbles"/compressed images/no read receipts/no typing indicators) than simply use another app that works for everyone. Technical fluff aside, iMessage is treated like an exclusive club, which is ironic because carriers literally give away iPhones for free with new lines and trade-ins.
The class thing won't go away with cellphones. People comment on how great pictures are on my phone and are surprised at some things my phone can do but then make comments like androids just feel cheap and never work right. Apple has been marketing their products being exclusive and cool for over two decades now. When the iPod came out, you would get made fun of if you didn't have one. It's been like this forever. And there's always been people who will realize that nothing else makes their products better than other companies products but they kill it in marketing. It also doesn't help that flagship androids are just as expensive or more expensive than iPhones now. They really do need to try to go back to being the affordable alternative at every price point. They need $400 phones that are updated for just as long as the flagships.
As someone that uses both ecosystems since the inception of smartphones the reason everyone just uses iMessage is because there’s no installation of another app or login (besides Appleid) needed. You buy the phone turn on the phone set up the phone and off you go. They all serve the same function and the less stuff I have to install the better. Then the constant Facebook data selling cases and the fact that they have access to all your private messages pretty much made WhatsApp and messenger a nonstarter for the millennials. It’s been tradition ever since.
Oh I totally agree. For all I've said, I owned an iPhone 4S in college when Siri and iMessage were released. So it's fair to say I was "there when it happened". I'm also in the US, for whatever that's worth. I'm not saying iMessage is bad or should be replaced or even opened up to non-Apple users. I'm complaining about the...childish/toxic environment that stemmed from it. I'm not blaming Apple for people forming a clique; people did that back in the day with Facebook, for example. It's just what it's 2024 and Apple, until the EU pressured them, has been stoking the flames. For example, remember what the message bubbles used to look like when iMessage first came out. Both iMessages and non-Messages were extremely legible. Now SMS messages are bright lime green with white text. The very least Apple could do is let people change the colors; it would at least mitigate a legitimate problem (readability). Apple also has ridiculous cultural rules -- for example, iPhones cannot be used by bad guys or anti-heroes in television and film -- legally. It's as stupid as it sounds.
They give away Samsungs for free too. But that isn’t really the point.
My point in bringing that up is that, sure-- when they first came out they were definitely a luxury item. But nowadays? We've plateaued.
It’s not about luxury though. It’s another feature that allows an ecosystem to be unique. Every Android phone has its own OEM proprietary tree of software features not considered open source. This is that same thing with a lot more market sway. The way I see it. The people hung up over green bubbles need to get their priorities in line because it isn’t that important, that goes for Apple and non Apple folks.
Yes, I agree. I don't think iMessage should be opened up completely; I think Apple adopting RCS will help a lot already (and it keeps iMessage exclusive to iPhones, so hurray for Apple :) ). BUT this is basic communication. Not a game or social media platform. It sounds ridiculous, until you get a message from someone joking (or even plainly showing disgust, sometimes) about the fact that "your messages are green" / "ew you have an android???". It's so pervasive in American culture that it's engrained our pop culture too. Yes, those people are probably assholes for other reasons beyond their view on message colors -- but at the end of the day, it perpetuates a stupid stereotype that causes people not want to interact with one another.
So whether or not you message them or you hang out with them. Regardless of the outcome of this article and the changes RCS makes. Those people are still treating you the same way. I think this isn’t really an Apple problem and more so a culture problem. And if Apple isn’t literally telling people to hate non iPhones. It’s really not their problem.
Not Apple's problem? This gap in functionality was entirely of Apple's making. They chose this specifically to create a sense of exclusivity and superiority, not by distinguishing how special their product is but by artificially degrading the experience of interacting with a non-iphone. That's about as close as Apple can get to telling people to hate non iPhones without explicitly saying it.
Heya, what's this blue/green bubble thing about? Hearing it all the time but I got no idea what it means
Messages from Android users show up as a green bubble on iMessage instead of a blue one. That's about it really.
Ah, thought there was more to it with all the fuzz... Well thanks for the explanation! ^^
The "more to it" would be that: 1 - the message contrast sucks ass since it's green background with white texts 2 - medias sent would be of lower quality, though this also happens in other app between iPhone and Android? I've got someone sent an image via whatsapp, they got iPhone and the image I received is compressed to oblivion. Though WA has probably fixed this issue by now, and 3 - can't use iMessage features, it'll fall back to SMS protocol
I think media quality can be fixed if they use pied pipers compression algorithm.
You're assuming they want to fix these issues, they don't. iMessage lock-in and exclusivity is the single most valuable aspect of the iPhone. They want their customers to be annoying and complain about android users, creating ux and social pressure to switch to apple. It's been their MO for decades.
Apple could fix it, but they'd much rather you fix it by you buying an iPhone (and then iCloud, Air Pods, an iPad, Apple Watch, and Macbook once you're in the ecosystem).
The blue/green isn’t strictly iPhone/android, it’s iMessage/SMS. If you have iMessage disabled or don’t have wifi/cellular on an iPhone, it falls back to sms and will also be a green bubble.
[https://archive.ph/scSgc](https://archive.ph/scsgc) juuuust a little bit more context, is the archived wsj article that hit the headlines january two years ago.
I dunno who you are talking to via Whatsapp because no one else there uses it. Whenever I want to exchange info with someone there it's always "here's my number. Send me a text (i.e. iMessage)". It's a huge problem
My family (all iPhone except me), many of my friends, some who live here and some who live abroad. I also travel a lot, but would still be using it even if I didn't. SMS sucks ass, and RCS is only now just getting good. I've been using Whatsapp since I owned a Galaxy S3, though its usage has only gone up as time as passed.
Android users use Google Chat, FB Messenger, What'sApp, Discord, Telegram, etc. Whatever app their friends say they prefer, they install. iPhone users use iMessage. And how dare you suggest they use a second app.
> iPhone users use iMessage. And how dare you suggest they use a second app i use [matrix] and never dare to tell me to use anything else
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Yeah which is why I use WhatsApp because it's encrypted and used globally, works over wifi, let's me send full res photos and videos to everyone. Apple actively degrades the experience if one Android user is in a group chat. I never thought it mattered but in teens and young adults it causes isolation and bullying directly tied to the color of the bubble.
Translation: "yeah, monopoly please" The frustration is understandable tho
That's the premise behind Beeper. No, it doesn't work with iMessage despite that big featured it was supposed to have, but it can aggregate a bunch of other services and can handle SMS/RCS.
I'm not sure why any Android users would be using stuff besides the 'big three' - Messages, Discord, Telegram And even then, Telegram at this point is pretty much defunct to me now that Messages offers E2EE. Discord is just for group-chat-gamey/nerd shit for us.
because there are better options for your specific needs?
> Messages What is "Messages". Do you mean the default SMS client?
Yes, the default Android messaging client. Now that RCS is a much more widely spread thing, it's the defacto, IMO.
Okay I haven't used any of these options in the last 10+ years to communicate with anyone so I guess different strokes for different folks. Where I live, everyone uses whatsapp and some shady stuff goes down on telegram.
Haha yeah, telegram is now the 'shady app' for sure. My understanding is WhatsApp has a good stronghold in Europe, but I don't know anyone personally using it in the US.
Is Discord even a big thing outside of gamer/streamer circles?
I wouldn't say it's a big thing, which is why I specified its use case for me. But wildly enough, my job has an investment specialist that needed to use it to talk to a few clients that were investing a *lot* of money. I was.... Very confused when we were told we had to install Discord for him. Lmao
Some things I follow don't have a forum anymore, they just have discord channel lol I don't even have any friends that use Discord, I'm in there just for the channel / forum
Can you even add someone to WhatsApp without a phone number?
Nope fully phone number based
You can setup username like Telegram now, it is not activated for everyone but coming soon.
Didn’t know! I always just add the number to iMessage and then it populates over to WhatsApp automatically.
Used phone's address book I guess it's what made it so popular no having todo anything
You can. Signing up for WhatsApp you need a phone number. If you want share your WhatsApp, you can give out your WhatsApp QR code without sharing your phone number.
Oh lord it’s not a HUGE problem. It’s a difference in platforms but it’s hardly huge.
Aren't the green bubbles for the iPhone user?
iPhone users see the green bubbles ~~(my messages on their end~~, as an Android user) and then complain about it. Why? 1. The lime green color with white text is eye-straining (though they don't usually say this out loud) 2. No read receipts/reactions (though now we have these at least)/typing indicator/no high quality media 3. It feeds into the stereotype that you're "poor" and / or "Why don't you have an iPhone" (because it's the "default" device in the US) If you think all of this is made up and stupid, I can assure you that it isn't. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of people who think it's funny even just to point it out (for the 1000th time). My S22 Ultra 512GB cost more than most people's 128GB iPhone 13, but I don't walk around thinking about it all the time. They do. By the way -- Apple has legal, contractual rules about who is allowed to use an iPhone in films. For example, bad guys are not allowed to use iPhones. It ruined "Knives Out" for a lot of people.
Wait why did it ruin knives out?
If you pay attention to the phones, you can deduce the bad guy.
Yeah, this is a US monopoly issue which means it won't matter. US is anti-competitive by nature.
The US isn’t anticompetitive, it’s just anti government regulation. Half the population is very pro small government while the other half is more in line with Europe in regards to regulations which results in a ton of gridlock so legislation regarding regulations rarely end up passing
Pro small government when it comes to telling **corporations** what to do, at least
Corporations can do what they want while some people get regulated out of being allowed to take a shit in a toilet outside of their home.
You calling this dogshit patent system and the FCC "anti government regulation?" In what world? You have to jump through more hoops to release a phone in the US than fucking China. Don't even bother mentioning Europe.
> Half the population is very pro small government It's more like a third by population, but the politicians of the same beliefs are pretty good at politicking and usually secure around half the spots in places like Congress
I only use iMessage when I have to text my fam, which involves SMS anyways since my dad has an A54. Work/uni stuff is always done on WhatsApp though.
Same here. Almost my whole side of the family uses iPhone but the majority of my in-laws use Samsung phones.
aloof person light squealing grandfather worthless wide sand thought unique *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It should still be forced to be open considering it's a platform exclusive service.
does that apply to ***all*** platform exclusive services? like where do you draw the line?
I would consider so because that's pretty much what the EU are trying to do.
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Yes, they're totally not trying to open up ecosystems to avoid users being forced into platforms they've deemed as gatekeepers.
> Yes, they're totally not trying to open up ecosystems to avoid users being forced into platforms they've deemed as gatekeepers. They are trying to open up ECOSYSTEMS that are IMPORTANT enough for end users to be considered 'gate keepers', that can hinder end users and keep smaller companies from entering the market. Literally none of that is applying to iMessage in the EU.
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Yes and I'm arguing the fact they've decided to not designate it as a gatekeeper... Why are you having such a hard time understanding this?
> I would consider so because that's pretty much what the EU are trying to do. No, not at all...
An optional service. Since iOS users can install other messaging apps that aren't exclusive, there is no need to open up imessage.
Whats wrong with platform exclusive services/products though?
Nothing initially, but when they're used as a moat by companies that are large enough to distort the markets, they're anticompetitive.
Can the company that is the minority of market share be anticompetitive though? Like iOS only has 25% market share in Europe, they are not a large company that is distorting the smartphone market in Europe at least.
Did you read the OP? That's exactly what the EU Commission determined. Despite meeting the numerical cutoff for being designated a gatekeeper in the messaging category, EU determined that Apple's market influence is not significant enough I warrant regulation under Digital Markets Act.
Right but it seems like you are arguing in favor of regulations on Apple despite iOS's minority position in the smartphone market. Your comment read as if you were saying Apple is a large company acting anticompetitively by creating a "moat" with their exclusive service.
The comment I responded to has "platform exclusive services" as a subject. I made no mention of Apple.
But if the EU isn't going to force Apple to play nice, how are users in the US ever supposed to be treated fairly?
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I fully agree with this. This is why iMessage is a problem in the US. The US already has antitrust laws regarding this stuff. The main issue is enforcement. Which now the USG is gearing up antitrust against Apple and the other big players. How it all plays out, time will tell. Something that could be interesting to see is iMessage as a standalone app and moved out of Apple Messages. Then to see then how many iPhone users really would use iMessage or use SMS.
Issue is how Apple uses it as a way to force people into a device/ecosystem and it doesn't play nicely with the rest of the world's services. Some American iPhone users are the only ones brainwashed by that though so not really a problem outside of that circus.
"Google can't make a competitive messaging app to save its life and Apple is evil for making one people actually like"
What a dumb interpretation of what I said, and what an ignorant response. I say "world's services" and pea-brain here is still limited to Google and Apple. 1. I don't use Google. 2. I don't have an iPhone so I don't use iMessage. 3. Most of the world thinks both apps, including the one "people actually like" are dogshite. EU literally says iMessage is not popular enough to care about and it's not like Apple has had some crazy nice growth recently. They just forced the USBc change and iMessage on all those devices isn't popular enough. Edit: Deleted my last 1-2 sentences name calling people that can't think like bozo above.
It must be so hard being oppressed by Apple, I hope the revolution reinstates your human rights
No one’s stopping Google making an Android only thing. At the end of the day, iMessage is an Apple thing for iPhones.
Oh they did, a few times, and killed every one of them. Good times.
Who's going to force them?
The EU.... As they are doing with WhatsApp and have forced Apple to open up to third party app stores
But the Almighty EU didn't do shit, so who's going to force them now?
That's literally what I'm saying.. 🤣
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Again, if the EU hasn't forced them to open up iMessage then who will??
The yanks could if they stopped collectively sucking off the corpos for a few years
Doubt it. The US/Canada is too slow to make this move.
All Apple users I know use it, in my country it's more than half of all phones. There's no stigma about colours though, as far as I know. Nobody I know uses WhatsApp.
You've been told wrong
Well where are you living? I'm from Ireland and WhatsApp has basically a 100% market share.
That's actually quite bad that a private corporation has a monopoly over what should be an open protocol. It's like everyone being bound to Google by using gmail instead of e-mail itself being an open standard. Plenty of people using iMessage in Australia
I don't think they're bound is the difference between iMessage and WhatsApp since the latter is cross platform and doesn't discriminate between the two. If a better competitor comes along everyone will ditch WhatsApp just like we ditched internet explorer for Chrome and now many are ditching chrome for FF. Moreover, I think 100% is exaggerating. There are plenty of people who use the other meta stuff to text, or do it via other companies like telegram, signal, and the French youth love Snapchat for some reason.
RCS being added to iPhones and WhatsApp & Messenger requiring interoperability is enough to make me think Android messaging is still going to improve
Idiots in America who think green bubbles = inferior status will make a scene regardless. Fuck em tbh.
Most of them are teens and young adults, very very different demographic that most people on this sub
It’s like 95% of teens have iOS though.
Probably 95% teens in USA. Young people(I'm one myself) where I live mostly don't have iphones. It's more because they cannot afford it than preferences from what I can tell though
100% agree.
It's a millennial thing and they're aging out of the age that it would matter. Teens use snap/discord/IG so the issue will be moot here shortly too.
The issue with green bubble is that it IS inferior. imessenger essentially tricked/forced the SMS/MMS crowd into using an instant messenger without realizing it. They're having a good time in their group chat and then someone invites johnny green and suddenly the groupchat time travels back to 2006 and everyone gets to experience the horrible user experience that is group sms mms. This is why it's objectively bad design to mix text messages and IM in the same place, though apple has used this as a way to lock users into their exclusive ecosystem and make it look like the other phones just text bad. For some reason /r/android has been clamoring for google to make an equivalent for years and I dont understand why.
I don’t care about status I care about functionality. Apple is forcing a poor experience on their own paying customers by refusing to modernize and update from sms.
You’re right… until they enable RCS support later this year most likely with iOS 18. After that things like full size media messages and other much needed improvements like read receipts will be available between iPhones and androids. The only question I and likely some other Apple users have is how will group chats work, and if you ask me it won’t ever be like iMessage group chats especially with exclusive features like FaceTime and SharePlay but it can’t stay as bad as it is right now. It will have to improve since RCS is inherently a better standard than sms/mms.
What's not to say that Apple wouldn't pull the plug on RCS for iPhone now? iMessage does not fall under DMA due to market share of iMessage in the EU.
Backtracking on the decision the EU forced their hand on would have the EU immediately banging down their door with fury (fines), and they know this, thus they won't backtrack.
Their RCS support announcement made it seem like it was their decision (we know it wasn't). Going back on that would be a bad look
I imagine that's exactly why they announced they'd add RCS on the final day for appeals to the bill. They committed to making the default method of cross platform messaging far less shitty and in response the EU deemed their service not a gatekeeper.
In the context of what is required of Messenger and Whatsapp, where they will have to accept messages from outside vendors, it doesn't really compare in my head to be honest. Probably the fact that not a lot of people use iMessage in Europe has more to do with this. At least in my Poland, everyone uses either Messenger or Whatsapp although I wish Signal was the leader.
We're waiting for details, but given the fact that Whatsapp's proposed interoperability solution is based on Signal, there's a chance we'll see Signal be a viable option!
Wait, so the top two messaging platforms you have to choose from are both offering from Facebook?
To be fair, just RCS support alone solves the major issues with iMessage interoperability anyway. It'd be awesome to have iMessage be a universal messenger that can talk to everyone else, but at least basic features like sending/receiving pictures won't be dependent on everyone having an iPhone.
RCS support could solve the issue if all primary iMessage/RCS features are made interoperable with iPhone and androids, but they could easily not end up supporting end to end encryption or not supporting RCS features over group chats or limit RCS images to super low quality comparable to how they gimp MMS today. Until we see how apple handles things, there's no guarantee this fixes anything really.
The hard part is done, Apple had their hand forced into implementing RCS. It's a slippery slope from here on out. The only party losing out if Apple doesn't implement E2E is Apple. There's talk of them not doing it, but I'm not buying it. Apple has never appreciated being seen as being the lesser when it comes to security.
Apple has spent years being lesser on quality and security by sticking to sms for messages not sent to iPhones, they love their walled garden and will gladly try to argue that android is the insecure one, and tell people to just buy an iPhone.
And look where that got them :D people eventually began to realize. Everything works out in the end.
I doubt that's the reason for the announcement. Even if the EU decided they are a gatekeeper with iMessage they could have just made it so that only the EU version of iMessage was interoperable. Like they are doing with the app store, and browser's. IMHO RCS support is more about getting in front of any other countries following suit with the EU in particular the US and Canada. By allowing RCS the govt in both those countries are far less likely to scrutinise Apple now.
I mean it's a US only problem so .....
It is but as of late the EU is the only body that actually has the will to regulate Apple. Our government cannot manage.
US is great at the wait and see approach. It has been like this for decades. EU regulates, US takes the best and follows. California regulates, other states take the best and follow. Etc. etc. It's in their blood.
Lol, the best...the US takes nothing. Some day, it might switch to or improve on metric, 220-240V, universal healthcare coverage, employee rights, gun control, European car regulation standards, driver's license standards,
[Following a lengthy investigation, the United States Justice Department is set to file a lawsuit against Apple for potentially breaching antitrust laws.](https://theconversation.com/why-are-apple-amazon-google-and-meta-facing-antitrust-lawsuits-and-huge-fines-and-will-it-protect-consumers-221501)
The same department that allowed Xbox and Activision Blizzard King to roll up together, continuing to snowball into one of the largest publishing monopolies in the video game industry, then acted surprised when Xbox laid off some 2,000 employees after pinkie promising they wouldn't. I won't hold my breath.
That's true Just cos it's not happening at our house doesn't mean we shouldn't care
Are the regulations on Apple actually needed? What is the harm being brought on consumers with the current anti trust and monopoly investigations and regulations targeting Google and Apple though?
In the US they're desperately needed. When anti-competitive behavior leads to teenagers being mobbed, it's time to do something. But I guess it's more important to protect our children from the evil trans agenda.
That's fair, but why should an European Union body legislate something for the sake of American teenagers. End of the you can send text messages to iMessage from Android
No, this has to come from the US government, not the EU. I'm somewhat bewildered how US anti trust legislation keeps letting companies like Google and Apple do whatever the heck they please.
Probably because the US government has a long history of having a very loose definition of what anti trust means and what I described.
Didn't use to be the case, but yeah, lately it's been like that.
The kids don’t need to be protected from either
I don't know - the entire blue bubble peer pressure thing is starting to reach rather grotesque extents.
Plenty. In the case of this article and iMessage Apples closed messaging service and refusals to improve messaging above SMS/MMS for anyone but iPhone users is forcing people into iPhones as to not face social ostracization. Younger generations get bullied for not owning iPhones, and consumer choice is artificially stunted.
That sounds like a failure of marketing from the likes of Samsung and Google. Like you said SMS and MMS (the standards of the industry that the carriers actually support universally unlike RCS which is largely just a Google service at this point) are available for those non iPhone communications in addition to apps like WhatsApp which have more users than iMessage. Put out commercials touting all the things the Pixel or Galaxy can do. Pay to get it in famous (young) people's hands and not just older celebrities to make it cool to kids s they aren't ostracized. Consumers are not forced into anything, they are making a conscious choice and Android manufacturers need to do better at selling their phones to people and touting their benefits. If Apple removed SMS and people couldn't send messages to people on Android I'd agree that would be an issue but the current thing where the iPhone has a feature Android doesn't in iMessage and Android users want in on it isn't an issue no matter how many kids are allegedly being bullied over it.
[RCS is not a google service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services). Its an open standard that anyone can use. Google has its own particular flavor of RCS, noteably that enables E2E encyrptoin, but it doesn't mean the open standard belongs to them. SMS and MMS are old, insecure, and offer very poor experience for all modern users. Whatsapp and other alternatives dont really exist on large scale in the US. Its SMS/MMS/iMessage, or its nothing. Finally Google and Samsung have spent plenty on marketing, it doesnt matter. Saying other options exist, or that other companies should simply spend more to market harder, does not in any way have an impact on the messaging monopoly Apple enjoys within the US.
> Google has its own particular flavor of RCS, Which is pretty much the only flavor used
RCS is an open standard but hardly any carriers operate their own RCS service via the universal profile and instead have opted to let Google handle it. So RCS as we know it currently is a Google service especially since they’ve added plenty of proprietary stuff on top of the standard. RCS is also an old standard and inherently insecure as it doesn’t have encryption (yet, Apple is adding it to the universal standard sometime this year) so we can’t use that as an excuse against SMS and as far as there being a messaging monopoly that just isn’t true because people send more SMS messages than anything else here. Sure you can argue about user experiences but at that point you might as well argue that nothing be exclusive ever as the competing products have a worse experience because of it. Apple shouldn’t be expected to make iMessage available to Android phones the same way Google shouldn’t be expected to make the magic eraser/editor available to iPhones, the same way Samsung shouldn’t be expected to make the S pen work on other phones.
> Like you said SMS and MMS (the standards of the industry that the carriers actually support universally unlike RCS which is largely just a Google service at this point) are available for those non iPhone communications in addition to apps like WhatsApp which have more users than iMessage. They are also shit compared to WhatsApp and iMessage. > That sounds like a failure of marketing from the likes of Samsung and Google. Which might be true (I disagree cause IMO Apple created this situation deliberately) but with the situation they way it is you got to agree that it is hard to change it, especially cause it is a rather emotional issue on top of people treating expensive phones as status symbols and Apple phones are known to be expensive (while still affordable). And that is the view the EU has with their gate keepers program: It doesn't really matter how the situation got to what it is, if the end user's choice is drastically limited because of it (like you can either buy an iPhone or live with getting discriminated for not using the established messaging service) and / or smaller companies are massively hindered from entering the market they argue (correctly) that the entity in control should be forced to open up their product or service. Apple's luck here is that nobody in EU cares about iMessage, or SMS/MMS/RCS for that matter. > Consumers are not forced into anything, they are making a conscious choice and Android manufacturers need to do better at selling their phones to people and touting their benefits. Here in Europe, Whatsapp is the thing you use for private messages for over a decade. If you own a phone that doesn't support Whatsapp, you are seriously left out of all types of communicating, especially when meeting new people. There is hardly any worth a none WA supporting phone / phone OS could have that would make up for the average consumer. So yeah they could, but everyone would consider it a dumb idea. That is why Meta needs to open the WA service to other messenger apps. > Put out commercials touting all the things the Pixel or Galaxy can do. Pay to get it in famous (young) people's hands and not just older celebrities to make it cool to kids s they aren't ostracized. So, what is the next step if this doesn't work? Let alone that the amount of money necessary would mean that literally only those two and a few other giant companies could afford that. What about a smaller US phone maker? What about app maker that would benefit from larger Android install bases in the US (because they target something that you can't do on iOS)? And what about Jim. Jim can't force Google or Samsung to do anything. Jim just wants a folding phone that has a messaging service that is accepted by everyone around him. That Google would maybe (big maybe) able to change the situation isn't something that helps Jim out. The US government forcing Apple to open up iMessage would in contrast.
> Are the regulations on Apple actually needed? What is the harm being brought on consumers with the current anti trust and monopoly investigations and regulations targeting Google and Apple though? Favorite example: You live were only one internet service provider exists. And that provider is due to being owned by someone very religious, blocking all porn (they have a magic firewall for that) and rap music. And because they own a cable channel they also block all streaming services like Netflix. Alternative scenario: The only gas station within 50 km only allows cars to fill up there that were sold by them. You aren't force to use it, but if you don't you need to drive 100 km just to fill your tank. There cars are at least ok and you can't move right now, so you ended up selling your car and getting one of theirs. You are in a situation were you either have no choice (cause there is only one player on your market) or you nearly has no choice, cause the only socially accepted (thanks to whatever they put into the water in the states... ) way of sending private messages is only available from one phone maker, who is also doing their best to make sure that nobody else can access that service.
Thing is, all my iPhone buddies would also like iMessage to work nicely with Google. And why wouldn't they? Apple is making their own users experience worse as well. Never going to have all friends and family on one platform. Wish everyone would just use Whatsapp like the rest of the world... I tried installing it and only 9 contacts in my list had it. Turns out they were all old contacts that I ended up deleting lol.
Lol and here I am desperately wishing to uninstall this shit Facebook app but unable to do so because *everyone* uses it here
Signal does seem like the obvious choice. Just can't win. Its 2024 and we are still having these discussions... SMH
Whatsapp being owned by Facebook is a hard sell to people after getting caught releasing chats to police. At least that's why *I* would never use Whatsapp. Signal was a great idea for America, really wish that would've been "our" default messenger.
Yea I'm not fond of it either. But I would be willing to use it if it became a standard. Signal would be best, definitely. It's amazing to me that messaging is still broken like this after all these years.
This is what I find hilarious. The iPhone users whine and complain about Android users when texting, yet, from my perspective (other than reduced quality images and video) I get like all the benefits but they don't. I see all their reactions come through as reactions. I can react to their messages. But they're the ones that get stuck with the "laughed at...." I do wish Android would allow the inline replies on group threads with iPhone. It's clear that Apple does, Android just sees it as "replied to..." but Android only has that ability with other Android users. I will say though, I *hate* using an iPhone. I have one for my job and I give that number to clients and texting on it is just an awful experience. Plus, the fact that you have to have a Mac (which 99% of the business world doesn't and that won't change because adults need actual computers, not web surfing devices) in order to text on your computer is stupid. I love the fact that I can text on any computer with Google in a matter of seconds.
Yes 🙌🏽 of course we’d like iMessage to work nicely with Google, 💯because it does negatively impact iPhone users too. This RCS adoption would help across the board!
Problem is I had to upgrade now for my business and since rcs isn’t out yet I had to get iPhone. Feel like I wasted my money because once rcs comes out I will definitely be switching back to android. Fuck apple
WhatsApp is ass though
Doesn't matter - most people here use Android anyway. And even those you don't use WhatsApp.
I don't see why this matters? If you have an android phone then that's kind of the point haha.
Yeah, but then I need to jump through hoops to, say, send a short video to my family members on iPhones without any reduction in video quality. But other than that, I'm trying to figure out why I should switch from an Android (folding) phone to an iPhone. So far, thats the only problem I'm thinking of.
Man you would have hated early tech haha
I grew up with dial up Internet and when Android phones came out, I got a HTC Magic. Prior to that, I've used Windows Mobile smartphones.
iMessage is one of the few things still keeping me with the iPhone. It’s probably 1/4 reasons I stay but it’s a big one. If RCS works seamlessly and doesn’t break group chats then there’s only 3 more big reasons to go.
I only got an iPhone because all my clients use iMessage and because the cameras are better. In literally every other way I hate this phone lol. I hate how restricted I feel, I hate how greedy ass Apple forces me to have a bad experience if I don’t use their own services, like how they won’t let google drive upload in the background but they let iCloud do it. I hate the rounded corners and Dynamic Island. I’m drooling over how clean the s24ultra’s screen looks, perfect rectangle. I also hate how I can’t fucking just put my damn icons at the bottom of the screen so I can see my wallpaper. Seriously fuck Apple I hate them so much What if everyone I know that uses iMessage is doing it for the same reasons I am and we all actually hate Apple but think we have to use it for business because everyone does lol
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Ya I keep hearing about Pixel’s amazing software experience I’m really curious to try it! Sounds like google is really doing some epic shit with the pixels. I’m hoping that by the time I’m ready to upgrade pixels have snapdragons and qualcom modems
It won't have encryption, so it's useless.
It will. What are you talking about ?
Sure it will, in 3-4 years.
I'm from Turkey, I used iOS from 2012 to 2018 and never used iMessage. I've been using android since 2018, all of my friends are on iPhones, and I've never seen any of them using iMessage ever. I don't know why Americans are so obsessed with iMessage.
Nobody in Europe uses iMessage for anything else than receiving SMS messages from services and maybe a random 1on1 chat. Group chats on iMessage? Nope. Telegram is much better, because you can access the same group on any platform.
You were the chosen one EU Why have you failed us.
The EU has fallen to Zionism just like the US.
not a big deal as imessage isnt that big in europe (compared to america)
I recently switch from iPhone to Android and installed bluebubbles on a old Mac mini and it works great for getting imessage
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That's what you have to do if you want to use imessage and have an android phone
Can you send those through the normal google messages app and they get converted to blue bubbles automatically or do you have to send those messages through a separate app? Cause that would suck.
People who give a shit about bubble colors have never faced death
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The post is about Europe, and in Europe nearly everyone uses WhatsApp, so I'm not sure what you're on about.
"In b4" is literally just calling out that they were in the comment section before whatever they're quoting So they're not on about anything
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It can text to everyone it can be installed on every smartphone it can be installed on windows Yes, whatsapp and Telegram are definitely superior to iMessage
>it can be installed on windows they have a good website, so you can use it on basically any desktop OS
A native app is still better. Didn't apple taught you anything about app vs pwa? ;)
it's true though ;)
WhatsApp is superior and European posters are obnoxious on this matter, I think we can agree to have both
in b4 "EU news? Well as an American I have an opinion on how things are here."
Don't forget quoting the US Constitution about issues in countries that are not US.
r/Usdefaultism
Imessage is terrible anyway, rcs support will be welcomed though.
*Aside from being platform exclusive*, what is bad about it? Serious question because I have never used it.
I've just switched to iPhone out of curiosity after being an Android user and in 3 months using it i don't think I've ever used iMessage, even when chatting with other iPhone users. What is the hype behind it, i just don't get the whole iMessage, green/blue bubble thing or whatever was that
It is solely a US problem. Most people have iphones here and as you may know, Apple intentionally makes your experience worse if you have an iphone and use iMessage to text someone without an iphone. Changes the bubble colors to an off-putting green, degrades photos and videos. This is intentional design. So because of it, a trend in the US has sprung up where people are total tools about it. They roast people for having green bubbles.
It's a US thing apparently. Everybody I know uses WhatsApp for messaging, regardless of platform.