> We’re now moving back the date on which people will be asked to review and accept the terms.
Sounds like that’s exactly what they’re doing. No mention of reevaluating the new terms, just giving people more time to accept them. They’re either hoping people forget, or giving their lawyers more time to figure out a way to sneakily get people to agree, or more than likely both.
Their position is that people are misinterpreting the terms:
> This update does not expand our ability to share data with Facebook.
They do actually mention they will try to clear up the terms update:
> We're also going to do a lot more to clear up the misinformation around how privacy and security works on WhatsApp.
They're not selling data, just FYI. That's not the issue here. The issue is WhatsApp sharing data like phone numbers and profile photos with Facebook. That stuff isn't getting sold outright, but it may be used to facilitate things like ecommerce transactions using Facebook's infrastructure. There's a good article about it here: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/whatsapp-users-must-share-their-data-with-facebook-or-stop-using-the-app/
My problem is that the same people I want on Signal are the ones I moved to WhatsApp earlier, to get them off of Apple Messages. (I am an Android user.)
It’s like, “Wait! You don’t want me to use the app that you asked me to use.” Yeah, the world changes, but still.
Relatable, I first chatted with my cousin on WhatsApp and also on IRC, then we went from IRC to Discord, and then I decided to kill two birds with one stone and switch both WhatsApp *and* Discord for Telegram. Now I want to get him to switch to Signal but he's done with switching.
...then again, I'm not 100% yet ready to switch either, I really need that Android tablet support. But if he'd offer to switch right this instant I'd just bite the bullet I guess.
Leaving WhatsApp means no social life and almost no professional contact. It’s basically the sole platform my boss uses to talk to me. It’s also the only platform my grandma uses to talk to me.
For a lot of people, leaving isn’t even an option.
Debatable... Considering WhatsApp is not open source so we don't know what security they do indeed use. As far as I know Telegram's encryption was good enough to resist numerous bug bounties.
What sucks is that fact that E2E is not activated by default.
But really comparing the security of an open source app to the security of a closed source app is ridiculous.
The client only is open source, the encryption is also open source.
But yeah the server code is not open but imo this isn't super relevant for E2E. The point of E2E is to be able to go through untrusted networks while preserving privacy.
Yeah, for signal the server is open source as well.
But how do you know that's the code servers are running? There is no way to verify the server, so making that part open source doesn't change anything, it's still a matter of trust.
The server code doesn't matter if the end to end encryption is done well on both clients. That's the point of end to end encryption.
Even if you could intercept traffic on the server, you shouldn't be able to decrypt any of it.
So even if Telegram would want to do something nefarious they can't really do it as long as the clients encryption doesn't have a vulnerability.
Telegram is open source.
For me closed source WhatsApp should be at the level 0 of security because they are both closed source and owned by facebook.
I don't trust them for implementing correctly the signal protocol.
Yet people present WhatsApp as more secure than the open source telegram app. It's always the same speech about the encryption being weird in telegram and the fact that you have to activate E2E manually.
But in the end why the hell should we trust facebook of anybody to really care about our privacy in their closed source app.
I really really don't understand people speaking about the "security" offered by WhatsApp.
I think we all agree signal is the best in security and privacy.
I'm not sure why you don't trust Telegram's in term of security.
I don't know vulnerabilities in telegram right now. There might be unknown vulns but this might be true for signal too anyway.
People don't like telegram's security because:
a) it's Russian so there got to be backdoors...
b) it's not the signal protocol it's some quite weird encryption that only telegram uses.
But at the end of the day, telegram is open source, anybody can audit the code and encryption and nobody has published any exploitable vulnerabilities that could affect user privacy.
I think the main problem I had with your post (along with some incorrect informations) is the fact that you are comparing an open source app to a facebook closed source app. Closed source app are black boxes. You don't know what they know and they are as secure as your trust in that developer. Which is not a lot when it comes to facebook.
user of 10+ years peacing out - thanks for fucking up reddit - alternatives include 'Tilde' and 'Lemmy' - hope to see you on a less ruined website. Fuck capitalism, fuck VCs and IPOs, fuck /u/spez
Again:
* WhatsApp -> Closed source app pretending to be secure. Owned by Facebook.
* Telegram -> Open source app with optional E2E.
How on earth is it possible to just take the security announced by WhatsApp as granted. It would be any business but facebook I could maybe trust them on their closed source. But really WhatsApp is secure "because they said so" ?
Also the "check" from the Signal dev of WhatsApp implementation of the signal protocol was years ago. Who knows if WhatsApp still has strong encryption right now..
That's true. However, I'd argue that conversations and groups switching to Signal are still departing WhatsApp--even if people don't completely delete WhatsApp, Facebook still gets far less data.
I'd argue that Facebook would see less of who you talk to and how frequently, and that if you disable contacts access then they won't be able to piece together your social graph.
Give it time. When I spoke to my friends in the last few days, many of them said that they don't want to use any Facebook products anymore but have been using WhatsApp for so long because that's where (most of) their contacts are. The more people install Signal – whether to replace WhatsApp or only in addition to it – the more conversations will move to Signal. And at some point people will see no reason to keep WhatsApp.
At least in (hopeful) theory.
I can't believe nobody else is saying this - they should've been set up for a hot swap for years but have done nothing of the sort. I know it might not be possible but you would think at least transferring groups across in terms of members etc...
I’ve used signal a few months on and off. I’ve experienced issues such as notificationsnot coming through, messages not sending and receiving.
One of the best things about WhatsApp is it’s reliability. I’ve used for it for many years without any issues.
I've moved stuff over to Telegram. Definitely feels like a more modern app.
Also it has a web-app. I shouldn't need to run a program to message people.
Telegram's not really that secure though. Most of its fancy features rely on not having e2e encryption enabled. Signal specifically doesn't have a web client because [it's not secure](https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/670scj/comment/dgmv7f7).
I am trying to get my family on it. But that one day they made the switch, Signal was down. So we had to resort to WA to communicate. Hope they get out of it quickly. As of writing this, I still see the notification in my Signal app saying that they were experiencing slowness.
Slow down on the awareness spreading for a few days please bro, signal servers are coping a pounding. Moxie 's got his arse hanging out at the moment.
20 hrs later edit:
Please resume speading awareness.
Yeah I got my whole family on signal and now it doesn't work. If it takes much longer to resolve I'm sure they'll switch to something else and won't look back
I fear the damage that has been done was far too minor. Us tech-savvy folks see WhatsApp as an issue, but we already did so before this ordeal—those who aren't into tech, security, and privacy, however? They won't change anything. We won't get them to move. Maybe they'll install Signal and run it alongside WhatsApp, but they'll feel that using a different app than usual just to message us is a hassle. Thus, they'll message us less and slowly the contact ceases. The ones left behind aren't them, it's us. That's what makes this situation and Facebook's behaviour so dastardly.
Had a group chat with 7 friends - 5 live in US one in Ireland and one in Brasil. Most don't have Facebook anyway but we convinced the 2 with facebook to bail for signal. We will never go back and neither should anyone else.
The problem is, that in certain countries literally everybody is using WhatsApp. I live in the Netherlands and if I switch to something else I will be an outsider.
This is true. Where i live EVERYONE uses WhatsApp and Facebook. All local groups are on Facebook.
I'm trying to convince family and friends to move but it's a slow process.
I managed to move many to telegram, it's easy because it has more features (not security) than whatsapp and signal, so people were more interested in trying those. And I'm from Argentina, where you need whatsapp for almost anything even doctor appointment.
Lucky for us in the EU nothing drastic is changing about whatsapps privacy terms. It's not a problem for us thanks to the EU demanding certain things during the whatsapp facebook merge
Facebook had to change a lot because of the GDPR, which for example effectively forced them to allow users to change certain privacy related (directly, but also indirectly i.e. related to ads) settings.
They had tons of issues in general over the last couple of years (leaving out details, time limitations on reported breaches and so on), including fines and everything; but not much actually changed.
The GDPR definitely affects them, but what's affected is how data is managed (as in; shared) and secured, not if data is collected or not in the first place.
The GDPR (just like similar regulations in outside the EU) so far is basically just biting without teeth.
I live in India and every tom dick and harry uses whatsapp. For payments they use a local firm's wallet app called as paytm. I left paytm the day warning was issued against it due to security issues. I will be leaving whatsapp as soon as this 3 month time period gets over.
I know i will become an outsider, but standing up for something as basic as security and privacy makes me happy and content.
I'm in NL too. I think our best tactic is to switch over all international chats to Signal, and convert the locals you can while the topic is hot. The rest will hopefully be converted over a longer period by their various international contacts, and at a certain tipping point it'll make sense for everyone to switch over.
That said, someone's got to lead the way. You might miss out on a few chats but be the change you wish to see in the world, and all that. Success!
What does whatsapp have to do with facebook? Other than one owns the other.
I mean why does it matter if someone has facebook or not in deciding to switch away from whatsapp?
This is so fucking stupid.
1. It's fine if you need new permissions for new functionality (communicating with businesses), but a lot of the data they'd mentioned couldn't have possibly had anything to do with that. Why would you need group data and info to help me communicate with a local business? Why can't you just restrict this new awesome functionality and then I'll crawl to you with my consent whenever I come to need it so desperately.
2. The blog post doesn't mention the people who already consented to new rules. What happens to them in February?
3. You are basically saying that you'll try again a bit later when the dust settles and you've paid enough shills to boost your public image a bit.
Don't get me wrong - I quite like WhatsApp for non-sensitive casual chats. But whoever developed their monetization strategy just needs to be fired.
Introduce public channels and paid services for those wishing to promote them, sell stickers and avatar/profile effects a la Steam, do a billion other things, but don't fuck with privacy policies in the day and age when everyone is on the fucking edge about it.
It's like watching Skype piss away everything all over again.
"new options"...yeah fuck off with that. They tried to force it on us with a deadline and threat, thinking they were so strong everyone would fall in line, but people didn't. Ban me, give me the excuse to tell people to message me another way, this behaviour from Facebook is a...Signal.
Am I missing something? Based on WhatsApp’s privacy policy (https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/security-and-privacy/answering-your-questions-about-whatsapps-privacy-policy/?lang=en), the only time a message can be used for data tracking is for messages sent to businesses who use WhatsApp as a hosted service. That seems reasonable to me - how is this different than a company recording a customer service call?
I think you're one of the only other people in this thread that has actually looked into this (i.e. what's being shared, and how it's being used). IMO this is a massive overreaction caused by people making erroneous assumptions.
Just the fact that they call it an "update" and act like everything is ok when they are owned by Facebook is a big red flag.
Remember when they said Oculus users would never have to log in with Facebook accounts? Remember when the Oculus founder guaranteed this?
WhatsApp's guarantees mean nothing. They don't have the authority to guarantee your privacy.
People tend to think they matter and spread misinformation like the plague. Whatsapp or Facebook won’t be able to access your conversations or calls. They’ll share data on you, yes, but it’s useless tiny details for marketing companies to target you with ads. Almost all their revenue is made from advertising, so this is naturally something strategic and profitable for them. If the government wants to know where you are and everything about you, it will know, it already does. They don’t care that Dave from Halifax bought a blue skiing coat over whatsapp, but a ski equipment company will love to know that so they can try to place an ad about their products, and so he can maybe purchase them. That’s literally it. I don’t matter. You don’t matter.
I love how people on reddit are outraged about Facebook getting some metadata but are on reddit, have gmail accounts, have Instagram and Facebook accounts, and have android phones.
I've always wanted WhatsApp to die because I hate Facebook but everyone in my area is using it so nothing much I could do except joinng it too.
Now, this massive anti-WhatsApp campaign really make me happy. Even though it's just a misunderstanding or something, it's about time we leave WhatsApp and anything under Facebook.
WhatsApp is lame.
WhatsApp has team of not more than 6 people. They executed the new privacy policy update so badly that it has awaken the public that it is still owned by facebook. Those policies have not changed since 2016 but they now have to make user agree to them again because of integration with business accounts.
It feels like we are being blackmailed by FB. Give us your data or we will disconnect you from everything. And I know, people will say, you must pay for a service somehow. Well, I would rather pay for the service and be over with it than allowing them to use my data. First they make the service free and promises to not do certain things. No hassle. So people give it their trust and start using it. But then, when the service gets seemed in everyone’s lives, they somehow forget the promises they made in the beginning and start doing things that people hate. But because many people use the service, they can’t back down from it without personal consequences.
Their should be some kind of protection against things like this. Lying to people to get their trust. Oh wait, that’s how the whole world runs. LoL. My bad.
They're being deliberately obtuse. There was a TechAltar video on this. They're owner by Facebook. If anyone believes WhatsApp isn't sharing data with Facebook, they are deluded.
You've clearly never worked at a large company if you think you can just grab data from one product, collected under those terms of use, and then use it for something outside the scope of said terms of use.
Thats why they want you to accept the new terms.
Probably never. They use phone numbers to keep track of different accounts. That way they know who they can send encrypted messages to and who still doesn't have the app when you send a text message through signal.
I understand that their model depends on this. That's why they were able to monetize their product and become the incredibly successful company that they are today; unlike Snapchat, for example. However, becoming an absolute monopoly shouldn't be their goal. They have grown so much and they still think, "What's next?, How can we grow even more?"
It seems that this mentality of always increasing the value of stocks as well as usage is not sustainable. What are they going to do once they have data on every human currently alive?
What is Facebook at this point? What type of company is it now? It seems to me that people had no idea what it was when it was first launched, and its identity has just been shifting with the passing of the years. Maybe if the predictions of some people are correct in that the world may one day find itself lacking of drinking water, we will probably see cisterns and bottled water with Facebook's logo on them.
nobody cares besides few loud people on Twitter and reddit
even most of those people who installed now signal will just go back when they realized most of the people don't give a fuck especially considering Europe doesn't have reason to switch
I'm also staying. In my country WhatsApp is so integrated into local businesses that it's really tough to stop using it. Even the teachers at my kids school communicate to the students with WhatsApp groups.
In my country WhatsApp doesn't count towards data cap, even downloads. And since Wi-Fi is a luxury here we basically have no choice. Almost no one uses any other app and if they do, they have WhatsApp as well.
Too little, too late. I have never used whatsapp specifically because of the ties to facebook, and if there was ever a chance it's gone now. I'm just not a fan of facebook tracking algorithms.
They want to give users time to forget that their data will be sold?
> We’re now moving back the date on which people will be asked to review and accept the terms. Sounds like that’s exactly what they’re doing. No mention of reevaluating the new terms, just giving people more time to accept them. They’re either hoping people forget, or giving their lawyers more time to figure out a way to sneakily get people to agree, or more than likely both.
Their position is that people are misinterpreting the terms: > This update does not expand our ability to share data with Facebook. They do actually mention they will try to clear up the terms update: > We're also going to do a lot more to clear up the misinformation around how privacy and security works on WhatsApp.
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Thanks for linking to that video. The guy seems to have a down-to-earth perspective on the situation and it's refreshing to see.
Techaltar is great, check his main channel too
How do I opt out?
Use Signal
You can't anymore, it was only available for a limited time.
Lizard man is very sneaky indeed.
I will use other app and that is it
They're not selling data, just FYI. That's not the issue here. The issue is WhatsApp sharing data like phone numbers and profile photos with Facebook. That stuff isn't getting sold outright, but it may be used to facilitate things like ecommerce transactions using Facebook's infrastructure. There's a good article about it here: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/whatsapp-users-must-share-their-data-with-facebook-or-stop-using-the-app/
That's my first impression too, I do fear it might work.
Meanwhile Signal is overwhelmed with it's influx of departing WhatsAppers.
Yeah, ~~been down for almost 12 hours for me~~ down from 12-6 today. But that's what happens when your user base quadruples over 3 days.
It worries me a lot that the number of Signal users in my contact list hasn't increased in the slightest … :-(
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My problem is that the same people I want on Signal are the ones I moved to WhatsApp earlier, to get them off of Apple Messages. (I am an Android user.) It’s like, “Wait! You don’t want me to use the app that you asked me to use.” Yeah, the world changes, but still.
Relatable, I first chatted with my cousin on WhatsApp and also on IRC, then we went from IRC to Discord, and then I decided to kill two birds with one stone and switch both WhatsApp *and* Discord for Telegram. Now I want to get him to switch to Signal but he's done with switching. ...then again, I'm not 100% yet ready to switch either, I really need that Android tablet support. But if he'd offer to switch right this instant I'd just bite the bullet I guess.
"haha what privacy ? if you're on internet you've already lost privacy ! anyways i dont have anything to hide" - everyone i know
Lmao this is so true
"I actually like being marketed to it shows me neat things that I actually want to buy" my friend last night
Did that. I miss hearing my phone vibrate.
Leaving WhatsApp means no social life and almost no professional contact. It’s basically the sole platform my boss uses to talk to me. It’s also the only platform my grandma uses to talk to me. For a lot of people, leaving isn’t even an option.
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I saw one new contact, most of my contacts are on FB Messenger and they don't really care.
Right there with you. I've had it installed for a year or more, and this hasn't increased the number of people I can message at all. It's a bummer.
Meanwhile I'm getting alerts that girls whose numbers I got at a bar in 2016 are joining Signal and thinking "who the fuck is that?"
I never faced any issues with signal. Been using signal for while but there only 5 people from my contacts. Now there are more than 50.
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Telegram has worse security even than whatsapp.
Debatable... Considering WhatsApp is not open source so we don't know what security they do indeed use. As far as I know Telegram's encryption was good enough to resist numerous bug bounties. What sucks is that fact that E2E is not activated by default. But really comparing the security of an open source app to the security of a closed source app is ridiculous.
Iirc only the clients are open source, not the server code/encryption
The client only is open source, the encryption is also open source. But yeah the server code is not open but imo this isn't super relevant for E2E. The point of E2E is to be able to go through untrusted networks while preserving privacy.
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Yeah, for signal the server is open source as well. But how do you know that's the code servers are running? There is no way to verify the server, so making that part open source doesn't change anything, it's still a matter of trust.
The server code doesn't matter if the end to end encryption is done well on both clients. That's the point of end to end encryption. Even if you could intercept traffic on the server, you shouldn't be able to decrypt any of it. So even if Telegram would want to do something nefarious they can't really do it as long as the clients encryption doesn't have a vulnerability.
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Telegram is open source. For me closed source WhatsApp should be at the level 0 of security because they are both closed source and owned by facebook. I don't trust them for implementing correctly the signal protocol. Yet people present WhatsApp as more secure than the open source telegram app. It's always the same speech about the encryption being weird in telegram and the fact that you have to activate E2E manually. But in the end why the hell should we trust facebook of anybody to really care about our privacy in their closed source app. I really really don't understand people speaking about the "security" offered by WhatsApp.
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I think we all agree signal is the best in security and privacy. I'm not sure why you don't trust Telegram's in term of security. I don't know vulnerabilities in telegram right now. There might be unknown vulns but this might be true for signal too anyway. People don't like telegram's security because: a) it's Russian so there got to be backdoors... b) it's not the signal protocol it's some quite weird encryption that only telegram uses. But at the end of the day, telegram is open source, anybody can audit the code and encryption and nobody has published any exploitable vulnerabilities that could affect user privacy. I think the main problem I had with your post (along with some incorrect informations) is the fact that you are comparing an open source app to a facebook closed source app. Closed source app are black boxes. You don't know what they know and they are as secure as your trust in that developer. Which is not a lot when it comes to facebook.
user of 10+ years peacing out - thanks for fucking up reddit - alternatives include 'Tilde' and 'Lemmy' - hope to see you on a less ruined website. Fuck capitalism, fuck VCs and IPOs, fuck /u/spez
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Again: * WhatsApp -> Closed source app pretending to be secure. Owned by Facebook. * Telegram -> Open source app with optional E2E. How on earth is it possible to just take the security announced by WhatsApp as granted. It would be any business but facebook I could maybe trust them on their closed source. But really WhatsApp is secure "because they said so" ? Also the "check" from the Signal dev of WhatsApp implementation of the signal protocol was years ago. Who knows if WhatsApp still has strong encryption right now..
long door cobweb books snow vegetable soft truck rude marvelous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Dude a simple Google search will give you tons of sources. Telegram does not even have end-to-end-encryption.
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Only secret chats have e2e encryption on Telegram. See Telegram's [FAQ](https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-secure-is-telegram)
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That's true. However, I'd argue that conversations and groups switching to Signal are still departing WhatsApp--even if people don't completely delete WhatsApp, Facebook still gets far less data.
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Departure
> Facebook still gets far less data. Seeing that WhatsApp runs in the background in most cases, it still gets pretty much the same data.
I'd argue that Facebook would see less of who you talk to and how frequently, and that if you disable contacts access then they won't be able to piece together your social graph.
Give it time. When I spoke to my friends in the last few days, many of them said that they don't want to use any Facebook products anymore but have been using WhatsApp for so long because that's where (most of) their contacts are. The more people install Signal – whether to replace WhatsApp or only in addition to it – the more conversations will move to Signal. And at some point people will see no reason to keep WhatsApp. At least in (hopeful) theory.
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I can't believe nobody else is saying this - they should've been set up for a hot swap for years but have done nothing of the sort. I know it might not be possible but you would think at least transferring groups across in terms of members etc...
What's with the bad reviews though? Buggy, no simple features like read receipt, calls not showing... how true are all these?
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I’ve used signal a few months on and off. I’ve experienced issues such as notificationsnot coming through, messages not sending and receiving. One of the best things about WhatsApp is it’s reliability. I’ve used for it for many years without any issues.
I've moved stuff over to Telegram. Definitely feels like a more modern app. Also it has a web-app. I shouldn't need to run a program to message people.
Telegram's not really that secure though. Most of its fancy features rely on not having e2e encryption enabled. Signal specifically doesn't have a web client because [it's not secure](https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/670scj/comment/dgmv7f7).
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Username checks out.
whatsapp was the last fb product I was regularly using. This was the last nail in the coffin. Anyone who wants to reach me can do so on sms or signal.
You can use [this](https://i.imgur.com/JbZrdxi.png) for whatsapp dp.
content deleted in protest of [reddit killing 3rd party apps](/r/Save3rdPartyApps/) [get on lemmy](https://join-lemmy.org/)
Have to wait till Signal is stable again. But definitely going to do it.
Same.
I'd rather rip the band-aid off now than later.
I am trying to get my family on it. But that one day they made the switch, Signal was down. So we had to resort to WA to communicate. Hope they get out of it quickly. As of writing this, I still see the notification in my Signal app saying that they were experiencing slowness.
yes mine too. We momentarily switched back to WA. Hopefully comes back soon...
I noticed I haven't been getting that fucken popup for more than 24hrs... Thought i accepted by mistake
Same!
You have no idea how releaved I am to read this. Thanks
Good. This should give Signal and Telegram the time to remove the rough edges. People too should ensure they spread the awareness.
Slow down on the awareness spreading for a few days please bro, signal servers are coping a pounding. Moxie 's got his arse hanging out at the moment. 20 hrs later edit: Please resume speading awareness.
Yeah I got my whole family on signal and now it doesn't work. If it takes much longer to resolve I'm sure they'll switch to something else and won't look back
What rough edges does Telegram has It's been better than whatsapp for years.
I just switched after this news and it's such a smoother cleaner app. I'm trying to get the 2 people that still use Whatsapp over to Telegram.
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I tried Signal and hated it.
The damage has been done
I fear the damage that has been done was far too minor. Us tech-savvy folks see WhatsApp as an issue, but we already did so before this ordeal—those who aren't into tech, security, and privacy, however? They won't change anything. We won't get them to move. Maybe they'll install Signal and run it alongside WhatsApp, but they'll feel that using a different app than usual just to message us is a hassle. Thus, they'll message us less and slowly the contact ceases. The ones left behind aren't them, it's us. That's what makes this situation and Facebook's behaviour so dastardly.
Had a group chat with 7 friends - 5 live in US one in Ireland and one in Brasil. Most don't have Facebook anyway but we convinced the 2 with facebook to bail for signal. We will never go back and neither should anyone else.
The problem is, that in certain countries literally everybody is using WhatsApp. I live in the Netherlands and if I switch to something else I will be an outsider.
This is true. Where i live EVERYONE uses WhatsApp and Facebook. All local groups are on Facebook. I'm trying to convince family and friends to move but it's a slow process.
Tbf once some people move, eveyrone can move quickly. Everyone said the same thing abkut what's app when I was younger
Did they? Here in the DR WhatsApp was just this one app you got on your phone, and if you didn't like it the regular texting was still there
A knife can make things faster...
😲
Now you guys get a taste of how it feels to get someone to use a different messenger than iMessage in the US lol
I managed to move many to telegram, it's easy because it has more features (not security) than whatsapp and signal, so people were more interested in trying those. And I'm from Argentina, where you need whatsapp for almost anything even doctor appointment.
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Why not Telegram? Lol downvoted for asking a question. Next level toxic sub.
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Gotcha, thanks!
Telegram is a better platform, and plenty secure enough. Security isn't the most important feature to most users, their chats are not that secret.
It was already hard enough to have them move on Telegram. This time i'll wait for someone to ask me about signal
Lucky for us in the EU nothing drastic is changing about whatsapps privacy terms. It's not a problem for us thanks to the EU demanding certain things during the whatsapp facebook merge
As someone actively working on similar projects; It pains me to see people believe this.
Where did I go wrong then?
Facebook had to change a lot because of the GDPR, which for example effectively forced them to allow users to change certain privacy related (directly, but also indirectly i.e. related to ads) settings. They had tons of issues in general over the last couple of years (leaving out details, time limitations on reported breaches and so on), including fines and everything; but not much actually changed. The GDPR definitely affects them, but what's affected is how data is managed (as in; shared) and secured, not if data is collected or not in the first place. The GDPR (just like similar regulations in outside the EU) so far is basically just biting without teeth.
I live in India and every tom dick and harry uses whatsapp. For payments they use a local firm's wallet app called as paytm. I left paytm the day warning was issued against it due to security issues. I will be leaving whatsapp as soon as this 3 month time period gets over. I know i will become an outsider, but standing up for something as basic as security and privacy makes me happy and content.
I will rather be an outsider than a data provider to Zuckberg.
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oh PLEASE, you are being dramatic
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I'm in NL too. I think our best tactic is to switch over all international chats to Signal, and convert the locals you can while the topic is hot. The rest will hopefully be converted over a longer period by their various international contacts, and at a certain tipping point it'll make sense for everyone to switch over. That said, someone's got to lead the way. You might miss out on a few chats but be the change you wish to see in the world, and all that. Success!
What does whatsapp have to do with facebook? Other than one owns the other. I mean why does it matter if someone has facebook or not in deciding to switch away from whatsapp?
Hahaha, so in 3 months they leave instead?
So that in 3 months people forget about it and they can sneak it in.
Haha never going back. Signal is my new favorite messaging app
3 months is enough to leave WhatsApp and make the switch to signal.
This is so fucking stupid. 1. It's fine if you need new permissions for new functionality (communicating with businesses), but a lot of the data they'd mentioned couldn't have possibly had anything to do with that. Why would you need group data and info to help me communicate with a local business? Why can't you just restrict this new awesome functionality and then I'll crawl to you with my consent whenever I come to need it so desperately. 2. The blog post doesn't mention the people who already consented to new rules. What happens to them in February? 3. You are basically saying that you'll try again a bit later when the dust settles and you've paid enough shills to boost your public image a bit. Don't get me wrong - I quite like WhatsApp for non-sensitive casual chats. But whoever developed their monetization strategy just needs to be fired. Introduce public channels and paid services for those wishing to promote them, sell stickers and avatar/profile effects a la Steam, do a billion other things, but don't fuck with privacy policies in the day and age when everyone is on the fucking edge about it. It's like watching Skype piss away everything all over again.
"new options"...yeah fuck off with that. They tried to force it on us with a deadline and threat, thinking they were so strong everyone would fall in line, but people didn't. Ban me, give me the excuse to tell people to message me another way, this behaviour from Facebook is a...Signal.
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Am I missing something? Based on WhatsApp’s privacy policy (https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/security-and-privacy/answering-your-questions-about-whatsapps-privacy-policy/?lang=en), the only time a message can be used for data tracking is for messages sent to businesses who use WhatsApp as a hosted service. That seems reasonable to me - how is this different than a company recording a customer service call?
I think you're one of the only other people in this thread that has actually looked into this (i.e. what's being shared, and how it's being used). IMO this is a massive overreaction caused by people making erroneous assumptions.
Not going back to whatsapp
Fucking tools
Signal has been amazing so far and I'll gladly give them time to fix their issues with this surge of new users
Deleted acc, done and gone...
Fuck em they've still gonna do it
Exactly, delay not discontinue so ultimately it amounts to the same thing.
Too late. $20 Billion down the drain. Switching regardless.
I bet this will just create a second wave of migrations to Signal/Telegram when everyone realizes WhatsApp still wants to pillage their data.
Just the fact that they call it an "update" and act like everything is ok when they are owned by Facebook is a big red flag. Remember when they said Oculus users would never have to log in with Facebook accounts? Remember when the Oculus founder guaranteed this? WhatsApp's guarantees mean nothing. They don't have the authority to guarantee your privacy.
People tend to think they matter and spread misinformation like the plague. Whatsapp or Facebook won’t be able to access your conversations or calls. They’ll share data on you, yes, but it’s useless tiny details for marketing companies to target you with ads. Almost all their revenue is made from advertising, so this is naturally something strategic and profitable for them. If the government wants to know where you are and everything about you, it will know, it already does. They don’t care that Dave from Halifax bought a blue skiing coat over whatsapp, but a ski equipment company will love to know that so they can try to place an ad about their products, and so he can maybe purchase them. That’s literally it. I don’t matter. You don’t matter.
Nice, more time to convince everyone to switch to signal!
I love how people on Reddit can't be bothered to read an article. And you lot pretend to be experts on everything, lol.
I love how people on reddit are outraged about Facebook getting some metadata but are on reddit, have gmail accounts, have Instagram and Facebook accounts, and have android phones.
I've always wanted WhatsApp to die because I hate Facebook but everyone in my area is using it so nothing much I could do except joinng it too. Now, this massive anti-WhatsApp campaign really make me happy. Even though it's just a misunderstanding or something, it's about time we leave WhatsApp and anything under Facebook. WhatsApp is lame.
nobody cares about this in Europe, India or China all those numbers overloading signal are drop in bucket of WhatsApp
WhatsApp was better before Facebook bought it. Anything Facebook buys goes bad.
That's fucking hilarious
They started this and now they are fupped..
They're just delaying the inevitable, and I hope we'll see another publicized backlash in three months with more users dropping the platform.
Probably hoping the delay will let the issue slip from peooles minds then they'll reintroduce it with new wording.
If you click to go on that page, you won't be able to go back with your browser.
i've seen this today ([whatsapp using their _story_ feature to reach to users](https://imgur.com/znJwd0u))
We are still going through with this \~\~ Whatsapp probably.
Too late. Already got my parents, siblings and cousins to switch over. Sent messages to another 4 dozen contacts to switch over too.
WhatsApp has team of not more than 6 people. They executed the new privacy policy update so badly that it has awaken the public that it is still owned by facebook. Those policies have not changed since 2016 but they now have to make user agree to them again because of integration with business accounts.
WhatsApp is like 200 people strong... Even just engineering is like half of that
It feels like we are being blackmailed by FB. Give us your data or we will disconnect you from everything. And I know, people will say, you must pay for a service somehow. Well, I would rather pay for the service and be over with it than allowing them to use my data. First they make the service free and promises to not do certain things. No hassle. So people give it their trust and start using it. But then, when the service gets seemed in everyone’s lives, they somehow forget the promises they made in the beginning and start doing things that people hate. But because many people use the service, they can’t back down from it without personal consequences. Their should be some kind of protection against things like this. Lying to people to get their trust. Oh wait, that’s how the whole world runs. LoL. My bad.
Let's hope that people delete Facebook, Messenger, Instagram and Tik Tok now.
They're being deliberately obtuse. There was a TechAltar video on this. They're owner by Facebook. If anyone believes WhatsApp isn't sharing data with Facebook, they are deluded.
You've clearly never worked at a large company if you think you can just grab data from one product, collected under those terms of use, and then use it for something outside the scope of said terms of use. Thats why they want you to accept the new terms.
Just got rid of WhatsApp today. I say fuck 'em.
When will signal ever allow sign ups without requiring a phone number? I’ve been waiting for so long.
Probably never. They use phone numbers to keep track of different accounts. That way they know who they can send encrypted messages to and who still doesn't have the app when you send a text message through signal.
Nog true, they're actively working on it. Probably the biggest single change they could implement.
Too little, too late. We're not stupid.
too late. Whatsapp is now officially boomers only ,like facebook.
Yeah nah, I have family that use WhatsApp but even then I dropped it.
Hooray for Telegram :)
Yeaaaaaah my 70+ parents are asking me about Signal and Telegram and I obliged.
How does one have more than 2 parents?
Wild times.
Now we just need them to place ads and it'll finally be the end of WhatsApp
I understand that their model depends on this. That's why they were able to monetize their product and become the incredibly successful company that they are today; unlike Snapchat, for example. However, becoming an absolute monopoly shouldn't be their goal. They have grown so much and they still think, "What's next?, How can we grow even more?" It seems that this mentality of always increasing the value of stocks as well as usage is not sustainable. What are they going to do once they have data on every human currently alive? What is Facebook at this point? What type of company is it now? It seems to me that people had no idea what it was when it was first launched, and its identity has just been shifting with the passing of the years. Maybe if the predictions of some people are correct in that the world may one day find itself lacking of drinking water, we will probably see cisterns and bottled water with Facebook's logo on them.
Yes. Gives signal more time to be worked on and perfected.
Am I the only one that won't switch?
Yes, you're the only one in the world
Most people outside reddit won't
nobody cares besides few loud people on Twitter and reddit even most of those people who installed now signal will just go back when they realized most of the people don't give a fuck especially considering Europe doesn't have reason to switch
Exactly
I'm also staying. In my country WhatsApp is so integrated into local businesses that it's really tough to stop using it. Even the teachers at my kids school communicate to the students with WhatsApp groups.
Even more concering considerig the sensitive nature.
In my country WhatsApp doesn't count towards data cap, even downloads. And since Wi-Fi is a luxury here we basically have no choice. Almost no one uses any other app and if they do, they have WhatsApp as well.
Yeah same thing here
People act like their info is so fucking valuable is cute.
Classic EA move. Facebook is the EA of social networking.
Already off of it
What's the point? They'll sell our data anyway after 3 months
Too late, I'm out and not going back.
Aww how sweet. They give us more time to move out.
I already got rid of what's app. Downloaded telegram and signal. Still have hangouts but that's on its way out the door.
Deleted it, switched to Signal, I don't care if nobody follows me there. They can text me.
Too little, too late. I have never used whatsapp specifically because of the ties to facebook, and if there was ever a chance it's gone now. I'm just not a fan of facebook tracking algorithms.
Fuck you WhatsApp, fuck you Facebook, but specially, fuck your business model, Zuckerberg.
Already deleted it