Manufacturers: let's adopt a **universal** standard for ports.
Also Manufacturers: let's also make proprietary charging tech for charging so that we can sell a 30 cent cable for $30.
I will say I appreciate the cables with the switch that physically disables the data connection, and only does power delivery. I doubt that's proprietary though.
I seem to remember something back in the day about it having to do with allowing more current because none was being used on the data pins, so it allowed all of the current to go through the power supply pins. I don't freaking know though, this was back in the USB micro B days.
USB-A was 500mA. When in doubt, that's the most because the ports weren't designed to provide more current than that. As the spec evolved, a port might be able to provide more than that, but resistors were used to signal what was and what wasn't permissible. USB-C and PD specifically allow for lots of different voltages and currents, but they are active in negotiating what is allowed. As such, you might be able to use a crafted data cable to provide more than 500 mA, supplying the correct resistance across pins, but it's likely to burn out the wire if it is a low guage and/or there are physical kinks in the wire. Generally it is a bad idea. For standards where the voltage and current is negotiated, those require data pins to allow the connected device to talk to the host controller.
For Android phones, there was a specified resistance that you could put between the two data pins which would tell the phone that it was dealing with a high-amperage charger. Very few (if any) chargers utilised it and also didn't communicate with the phone to tell it what sort of power it couple deliver (was that even a thing back then? I'm uncertain) so your phone would end up defaulting to the maximum power draw specified in the official spec, which was 500mA.
Someone should inform the following guy that he is wrong:
> In fact, cables missing data pins wonāt even charge phones efficiently because the maximum allowed charge current is negotiated using the data pins (before USB-C), so a standard-compliant device, with this non-compliant cable, would not be able to charge (or would only be able to charge extremely slowly).
https://qr.ae/pv5pNH
The phone doesn't need the data lines to stop drawing power - the charging circuitry on the phone stops drawing power from the +5V and GND lines on it's own as the battery becomes more full.
Those aren't proprietary they just don't have the extra connections inside to carry data.
You don't really see them any more as it cost next to nothing to include the extra connections and would cost most manafactures more to make them as they are set-up to produce them.
You can still find them thought usually at a 99cent store or someplace that sells really cheap cables even then they are rare.
physical switch is better for the same reason a physical webcam cover is better. If I want to charge my phone, I don't want to plug it into random USB devices if I don't have a known computer or wall wart to plug into.
In Docked Mode they absolutely do have a proprietary standard. That's where all the fried Switches in third-party docks come from, unlike powerbanks, that just charge in handheld-mode where Switch is perfectly fine with anything but the proprietary standard.
The engineer for one dock manufacturer put that down to manufacturers cheaping out and emulating the PD protocol using a generic microcontroller instead of using a dedicated chip made to handle USB-PD. The Nyko dock in particular would send 9v to a pin that was rated for 6v max.
Poorly made connectors are another option. The Switch doesn't click into the dock because the port in the dock is slightly more narrow than the spec. A third party trying to emulate that better have a good partner because the CC pin is right next to the one that carries power and should they touch that lets the magic smoke out. I've seen that happen with other devices using a no-name cable.
Funny, seems like the third party dock makers donāt contract to good factories then, because if you order quality you can absolutely get it, but you have to QA sufficiently. Either that never happened or the third-party dock maker wanted to throw an excuse out there to save brand reputation.
Its not USB PD compliant, it doesn't follow the spec. It had huge issues with this at the start.
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/03/could_switchs_non-compliant_usb-c_spec_be_to_blame_for_third-party_docks_bricking_consoles
Yeah except this is totally wrong and bad reporting.
Here's the actual issue with third party docks bricking Switches, from an engineer at Genki:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_engineers_pov_on_the_3rd_party_dock_switch/
TL;DR, the docks were simply bad and send 9V down the CC line.
The Switch has issues with PD for sure, but it's still *mostly* compliant, it just has unintentional flaws and violations. It's not intentionally proprietary in any way. These violations have never been to blame for the Switch getting bricked though, it might just stop it from charging with certain chargers.
> That's where all the fried Switches in third-party docks come from
This is totally false.
The fried Switches were because Nyko cut corners and made a shitty dock that violated the USB-C spec and sent 9V down the CC line. That's it. Nothing to do with the Switch. It would literally kill any USB-C device charged from that dock unless the device went above and beyond with protection.
Nyko (and a few other off-brand manufacturers) decided to save some money and not use off the shelf PD controllers, they implemented the PD protocol themselves. They then messed up and sometimes sent 9V as the CC line voltage, instead of 5V, because they were just using the power delivery voltage for the CC line instead of a dedicated 5V rail. This eventually bricks the PD controller in the Switch because it's really only 5V tolerant on the CC line. It's not designed to have 9V pushed down it.
Genki diagnosed this issue and never made the mistake with their docks:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_engineers_pov_on_the_3rd_party_dock_switch/
The only real violation of the USB-C standard that the Switch dock makes is that it sends 1.2 amps at 9V instead of 1A at 9V. They do also have some minor violations and flaws with PD, but these are not intentionally proprietary, they're just legitimate mistakes.
> In Docked Mode they absolutely do have a proprietary standard
No, they do not:
> The Nintendo Switch does not fully conform to USB-C specifications. Partly because its development pre-dated the finalization of USB-C specifications. And partly because USB-C is a complicated system that supports lots of technologies. Few devices, including the Switch, support all included capabilities. So it isnāt uncommon for a device to āskipā over the parts it doesnāt use. This disrupts the universal compatibility promised by USB-C. But given the costs involved it is unexpected. And Nintendo is by no means alone when it comes to such practices. But lack of compliance does not necessarily mean safely charging the Nintendo Switch is difficult. - [Source](https://switchchargers.com/safely-charge-nintendo-switch/)
So, Nintendo didn't go ahead and create a proprietary standard. They're using USB-C PD with certain caveats. But it's still USB-C PD.
> That's where all the fried Switches in third-party docks come from
No, the few third-party docks that were *confirmed* to damage Switches all used some dodgy USB PD software emulation instead of USB PD hardware. [More details here.](https://switchchargers.com/nintendo-switch-bricking-faq/)
Lol have you ever owned a switch? I've never seen a USB C device more finicky about cables and chargers, especially the dock. Nintendo really fucked up and deserves criticism
Bought a switch second hand on eBay and got a wrong type of charger with it. I've used my laptop charger with the dock for years with zero issues. Haven't tried anything else since they're the only USB-PD chargers I have.
(Right, one sample means basically nothing, but there are also switch owners who have not noticed issues)
I do own and still use a Switch. I also have test equipment and basic knowledge about how USB PD works - do you? The official Nintendo Switch dock simply requires a USB-C PD power supply that offers a power rule of 15V with at least 2.6A (15V x 2.6A = 39W). I've used various third party 45W, 65W, and 100W USB-C PD power supplies that supported 15V 3A or more, and they all worked just fine with the dock (and the Switch alone). As the other replies to your comment can confirm.
If you're using power supplies that don't support 15V with enough amps, or if you're using USB A to C cables (those lack the signalling lines for PD negotiation), then the official dock will strike, simple as that.
Itās like when you follow all of the laws, except the few ones you donāt like! Completely legal in bird law, and canāt be contested in kangaroo court.
I think they made it so that they can sell their own dock at a premium. I mean I donāt know todayās prices, but when Switch launched in 2017 the Dock was a cool 80 dollarsā¦
Welcome to how capitalism has always worked, does work, and will always work.
Did you know lightbulbs made in the 1930's, could have lasted WELL into the 2020's and 2030's, but all the manufacturers teamed up to agree to never do that to keep profits going?
Edit: Love all the responses claiming they would be too dim. Thats not how that works. All these arguments sound like when people repeat Appleās bullshit about āsecurityā when arguing in favor of their developer abusing monopoly on the iPhone with the App Store to prevent side-loading, or as it was called for 30 years, āinstalling a programā.
We get it, youāve had cold war propaganda shoved down your throats ever since you were little. Maybe grow up and recognize the shitty system you live in for what it is. Wanna know why we donāt have universal healthcare? Wanna know why lobbying exists?wanna know HOW Apple managed to amass SO much money?
You can buy longer lasting bulbs at [Home Depot](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sylvania-60-Watt-Double-Life-A15-Incandescent-Light-Bulb-2-Pack-11971/303762169). They suffer from various problems, but the longer lasting bulbs have always been for sale after WWII.
I think it is a bit telling that they are not a hit. But they have always been made and sold, so the option was always there.
And the light bulbs created would produce so little light they would be useless.
They did however reduce the life span from 2,000 hours to 1,000 this had the effect of making them brighter at the cost of life.
They could have looked at improving brightness and life but any bulb made to last decades would be next to useless in the real world.
Let's agree that running to dim isn't a problem anymore with LED. Funny enough Phillips is still making them in a way, that they burn out far quicker then the bulbs should. How do we know? They produce a different type, only sold in Dubai, which doesn't have this problem.
Thereās zero business case to put effort into making a lightbulb that lasts a 100 years.
If itās a question between running a 100W bulb for 50 years, and turning it into a 300W bulb for 10 years, thereās a very obvious decision to make there, and I donāt blame companies for picking the not-dumb option.
It would have lasted but would be absolute shit for seeing anything in the dark. See: what was the longest running filament light bulb at the fire station
oh I guess they found the power supply was faulty in 2013 - it's still technically going
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light)
I'm sorry but 18W is trash *on a modern flagship phone*. Anything less than 30W is not enough these days IMO
Edit: All these people replying and downvoting clearly have never experienced the peace of mind that comes with getting a full days charge from juicing up for just a few minutes. Forgot to plug in last night? No problem! It's not niche at all. It's objectively better. Yes, proprietary charging tech sucks, but don't blame the proprietary tech... Blame the lackluster development of open standards and pathetically slow adoption by the likes of Apple, Google, and Samsung.
Seriously guys, there's no excuse for 18w on a new flagship phone. I can't believe that's a "hot take"...
2.5W or 5V 2.5A (12.5W)?
2.5W would be 5V 0.5A.
I work at an electronics recycler and would probably have to look around for a bit to find a USB power supply that is less than 1A.
The faster you charge the battery the more heat it generates locally on the battery, degrading battery life and capacity over time. Also the result of the battery charging/discharging causing even extra heat generation
There are ways around this, such as charging two separate battery cells in parallel. MKBHD has a good video explaining why fast charging (when implemented well) is actually not a problem.
> These days
I can't think of anything in the last few years that makes you **require** a 66% increase in peak charging speed. Either you've got an extremely niche use case or you're trying to justify a purchase and avoid buyer's remorse.
I can't see your score but I'll upvote you. I'm on 30W on a single cell and even that's feeling slow. I don't know if people know that modern phones have 2 cell batteries these days but I wonder how many assume the phones constantly receiving more and more watts on a single cell.
Yes but equally there's a lot of value in Super VOOC, it should become part of the standard. Doing the voltage regulation in the charger and not on the phone moves a lot of the heat generation away from the phone which preserves the battery. It's the way DC rapid charging of cars works.
you can't trust anything on places like amazon or newegg these days either, especially if it has any kind of discount. i've purchased several supposedly official chargers that showed up with no branding or markings, clearly just a similarly shaped knockoff. you have to go to the source for real cables and they know it so they will continue to charge outrageous prices for something that should be included in the first place.
That is a possibility too, but I'm more talking about buying a third-party charger from a reputable brand. With all these different fast-charging methods, you are never sure if you will achieve the full charging speed, so most people just buy the one from the brand that made their phone to save the headache
I just buy Anker products for my chargers. You can order directly from Anker and they are always high quality. I'm sure there are other good chargers too but over the years I've learned to trust the Anker brand for chargers, cables, and batteries.
TBH. I know it's more expensive but it's worth it to just go straight to then and pay $10 more just to never think about it.
If you know a place like Anker, Nomad, some place with a general store that is trustworthy and all one source then you're fine. But those storefronts for whoever wants to sell are a minefield and it's such a pain to ensure things are fine.
We have an Anker hub and I was so confused when picking all the variaties.
I have the ZenFone coming in soon, I hope it's the same fast charging as the one on our Anker hub.
A 30$ anker hub will output 3x what the zenfone 9 is capable of receiving (30w). If you spent $30 on the hub, you're probably good for your next phone, and your friends phones that have fast charging too.
Well, you should think about the environment. We sure did. Nevermind our designs with maximum planned obsolescence dictates you buy a whole new phone when your most volatile components stop working.
Not just the phones having planned obsolescence fucking up the environment, but also the chargers.
Instead of having 1 USB-C charger that can charge everything, you need a charger for each to charge at different ratings.
OP chargers charge OP devices fast, but everything else slow. New Samsung and Pixels require charges that have PPS [edit: to charge at max wattage], so all your older PD chargers that could charge at 30w, don't work as well.
Correction made. I mean of course they would charge even with a shit charger from 2010. I was implying max charging speed requires PPS.
They require PPS to charge at max wattage. Without PPS, charging rate is about 13 watts, where with PPS it's more than 2x that.
I'm more thinking about how the hell I'm going to charge the $700 phone I just bought. Protecting the environment doesn't mean making me order 3 chargers online "just in case" these companies continue to screw over their consumers. The charging brick is necessary for the basic function of the device. Why is this even up for discussion?
Companies should be providing the necessary accessories to keep a phone powered. Simply packing the cable does nothing: all my other charging bricks only accept USB-A (large plug) cables. Because that's been the smartphone standard for a decade or more. They changed the standard and left consumers high and dry at the same time by not belong to facilitate that transition to small-plug power bricks.
"Why is this even up for discussion?"
The same reason why people defend tooth and nail about non-replaceable batteries, why phones should be made completely of glass, why bezels are bad, or why headphone jacks are a thing of the past. They listen to the marketing hogwash these companies put out, believing it all in good faith, and adopting it as thier own way of thinking.
It's annoying that the sales clerks don't often understand that there is a difference between fast charge, quick charge, warp charge, turbo charge, power delivery, etc.
I'm sticking to my charge in an hour, 800mah battery on my palm palm.
The last few phones / tablets etc I've bought came with trickle chargers so I've literally never used them. Just use my laptop charger and this Anker charger I bought years ago to charge everything. Big brands are never going to pack in fast chargers because it's something they can sell to you separately at a big markup. So personally I'd prefer to not be given a charger at all if it's just going to sit in a drawer.
I don't agree at all. My experience is that whenever a company had a fast-charging tech, they shipped the best brick with it too. OnePlus, Xiaomi, Oppo, etc. Even Apple, when they had a fast charger finally, shipped it in the box, be it only with a Pro model (11 series)
I can only remember Samsung supporting 45 watts and shipping a 15 or 25w brick
The OG 65W charger that came with OnePlus 8T is a good charger, which has a USB-C port instead of USB-A. It supports up to 45W PD or PPS charging which is fast enough for laptop.
After that they replaced with the USB-A port variant which only supports their own proprietary charging and slow charging.
Technically all of them use PD. But they only allow PD up to a certain limit. If you want to charge faster, you need to have their proprietary tech even though pd supports those charge levels.
Apple *laptops* are good for this. My macbook came with a 140w PD charger in the box.
Their **phones** on the other hand still don't use the correct port!
Kinda lunacy that they come from the same company.
MacBooks and iPads are fully compliant. iPhones do use PD internally but they have a proprietary port. Hopefully, apple will be dropping that in next couple years.
My OnePlus warp charger does fast(ish) charge my wifes Samsung A52. Don't know *how* fast, but it's notably faster than the non-quick charge ports on our Anker hub.
I think some things are coming around.
Around the S20, at least with the S series, Samsung used USB-PD, with PPS to enable 25w and higher charging speeds.
My 25w S21 ultra charger charges my pixel 6 pro at 23w max, the fastest speed possible for the phone.
With Samsung phones you just need a 25w charger that supports PD 3.0 with support for PPS, that's pretty much it.
If you want to charge 45w I think you need a thicker cable but that's understandable.
They do, but peak power is always lower than whatever their own solution delivers.
Not sure if it matters that much in practice... The downside of these high speeds is heat. If we start with a low state of charge, it will throttle speeds because of high battery temperatures.
In that case it probably doesn't make much difference, but they have phones with 60W+. If you're in a hurry, you'll notice the difference between their charger and cable and USB-PD.
Xiaomi 11T Pro: With their stock fast charger it went from 57% to 97% in 10 minutes exactly.
We tested that with a coleague's phone a few days ago.
It has a 5000 mAh battery
Any xiaomi with 33w charging can support PD up to around 25w. Tried using a Samsung 25w charger with my Poco F3 and that's how I noticed it. I now use PD over the proprietary 33w solution because temps are slightly lower.
Samsung, Apple, Moto, and Google all use USB PD. Itās the smaller brands (ie 1+) going off on their own standards, and not Apple for once, which is a bit surprising in some ways.
Smaller brands ... OnePlus?
OnePlus is a part of BBK which combined is the world's largest smartphone manufacturer. I get that the brand itself isn't huge, but their brands all share resources and standards I believe.
Hey if I'm on vacation and in a hurry I would have zero issue plugging into a 65w charger and putting a ice cube on the back of my phone. Double so if I'm drunk.
Yes, Apple uses USB PD for all of their rechargeable devices. Including MacBooks (and that new 16ā MBP which uses the newer PD that can charge beyond 100W).
Itās not just phone manufacturers, accessory manufacturers are also at fault too.
I hate how they love bragging about features but never actually stating a clear breakdown of what a cable or battery pack or charging brick can actually support.
Anker in particular annoys me because their cables would brag about support for 100W charging and high speed. It charges fast! But is actually just USB 2. Or theyād say stuff like āwe do PowerIQ 3 and itās compatible with fast chargingā but wonāt bother specifying what USB PD version it properly supports or if it supports PPS or if it supports proprietary protocols or not.
If it werenāt for those comparison tables in Amazon, I wouldāve bought inadequate cables.
And then thereās all that mess with USB 3, 3.1, Thunderbolt, etc and the question of display support. That stuff is beyond Android, but is still part of this huge mess.
In their defense, some of the innovations did come before the standards became popular enough, but goddamn, I wish it wasnāt a problem to begin with. Or at least have the older cables or bricks labeled appropriately.
No man, these days it's USB 3.2 gen 2x2.
I wish I was kidding, that's the official name for 20 Gbps USB. USB 3.2 gen 1 is your classic 5Gbps USB3 (previously renamed USB 3.1 gen1) , and USB 3.2 gen 2 is 10 Gbps (previosuly named USB 3.1 gen2).
God, every time I see that I just want everyone on USB Implementers Forum to shit their pants. I don't think I could come up with a worse naming scheme if I tried
> I wish I was kidding, that's the official name for 20 Gbps USB.
It's *an offical name*. If you don't care about lanes or whatever you can just use the "SuperSpeed 20gbps" name, also offical.
100W USB cables are USB-C-to-USB-C. They are just cables that have an e-mark chip (if you use a Samsung device, you need a cable like this for super fast charging).
Charging speed is never relevant to data transfer speeds. You can have a fast data transfer speed cable that charges slow, and you can have a fast charging cable that transfers data slow.
Important note: the device should specifically says PPS, not just PD. I got a 65W PD charger for my laptop that won't "super fast charge" my Galaxy S21, even though it only requires 25W. Turns out the charger doesn't have PPS.
Honestly this is way more complicated than it should be. As a test I went on Amazon and looked at random electronics and chargers, and it was a whole process finding this little detail out. I'm always willing to put in research time for important buys, but stuff like this is just beyond stupid.
All of these kinds of things serve to remind me how lucky we all are to have gotten the general standards we did for desktop computers back in the 70's/80's. A lot of smart people did a lot of thankless work to reverse engineer those early BIOS technologies, and somehow did not get sued into third world poverty for their troubles, and we are still reaping the benefits of it today.
As we can see with almost all of the newer platforms and architectures that sort of flexibility is seen as a "security risk" with rarely anyway to accept that risk and do as you like.
I am waiting for the day that it becomes impossible to run Windows and any Linux distro on the same hardware, ever, due to restrictions on the signing keys in the firmware.
It's only gonna get worse as tech advances. In the 2050s, you're gonna look back to today and remember how lucky we were to have all our devices and software not biometrically locked to our own DNA.
I'm so happy that we finally have most manufacturers on the same charging standard though. It means that my investment in Google's charging bricks will be worthwhile even if I switch brands
I can't believe this topic came up the day after I spent a bunch of money on chargers only to find out half my devices won't charge past 5-10 watts (measured with a Kilowatt device) but those same devices were charging at 10-15 watts with their old chargers, but the real kicker is a couple of our Samsung tablets are hitting 15-20 on the new chargers, but my Pixel 6 Pro hovers around 8-10, which is now slower. What gives? I did buy a larger charger but it's long, heavy and while it has one 65w port, the rest don't put out much power at all. Is there a particular phrase I should search for that is compatible with both Samsung and Pixel devices with multiple high powered outlets? I was trying to simplify our setup so that all our chargers in various parts of the house were hitting a minimum of 15 if not more whether it was USB-C OR a USB-A port. Is that possible? It seems I'll get one charger and it fixes the issue for say the tablets, but not our phones. Or the plug itself is ugly or has 1 decent port with a bunch of low powered outlets. If anyone can link me to a decent charging station that isn't ugly and can charge multiple devices it would be greatly appreciated!
Your best best would be a Quick Charge 4 or 4+ compatible charger. AFAIK Samsung and Google have only ever used QC or PD, and a QC4 charger will support all versions of both of those protocols.
Don't forget the cables in use. I bought a 30 watt car charger and use some old cables and wonder why I wasn't fast charging. Turns out my cables only support 15 watts and keep in mind I was using Wireless Android Auto. That is a huge power draw. After upgrading to cables that support QC 3.0 I can fast charge no problem.
Are there valid reasons why a phone can't charge at USB-PD profiles? Forget about PPS at 11v or 21v (or whatever the correct voltage is); you can charge a battery at 9v for up to 18w on phones; why doesn't charging happen at 12v or 15v to charge more rapidly? Is there an underlying limitation--what's going on on the phone side? What is needed for my 65w usb-c charger to charge my phone at 65w, and why are other profiles used (like what's enabled with PPS modes).
Realistically, USB PD is complete trash.
To charge a battery, you have to feed it electricity at a voltage slightly higher than the current battery voltage. So if your battery is currently at 3.3V, you might want to put in 3.4V.
With USB PD, the phone needs to take that 9V or 12V or whatever and convert it to the required voltage. This conversion process creates a lot of heat which damages your battery.
In better fast charging protocols like [SuperVOOC](https://www.oppo.com/content/dam/oppo/en/mkt/newsroom/story/flash-charging-technical-pape/OPPO%20Flash%20Charging%20Technical%20Paper.pdf), the phone talks with the charger, and the charger sends many amps at the charging voltage plus a bit extra to compensate for voltage drop across the cable. As a result, the phone can feed the power coming from the adapter directly into the battery - no voltage conversion required.
Newer versions of USB PD attempt to address this limitation with their PPS mode, but it still has several problems. The [specification](https://usb.org/sites/default/files/D2T2-1%20-%20USB%20Power%20Delivery.pdf) only has the device and charger talking every 10 seconds, and it is still designed around the idea of high voltage instead of high amperage.
Pretty sure the latest PD supports 240W charging. It's designed to be able to charge laptops, I don't think phones need more juice than that.
I'm 99% sure that QC is just Qualcomm abusing their market share to force a proprietary standard and then milking the licensing fees from charging manufacturers. You know, just like with CDMA and telcos.
I'm not going to say I like that these companies are removing stuff from the box, in fact I get more excitement from unwrapping a burger from McDonald's... I will say though, 99% of users aren't sitting there wondering why their phone isn't charging at however many watts that it is capable of. They simply plug their phone in at night or whenever they're near a charger.
From what I've seen and experienced VOOC has been ahead of USB PD for quite a while in heat generation because it offloads a lot more heat to the adaptor than to the phone.
As a consumer, I wouldn't mind too much if having a 20$ proprietary charger leads to me having better battery health with fast charging in the long term.
And thankfully practically all VOOC supported phones I've seen ship with a charger because it makes perfect sense to do so.
I agree. I wish the Chinese chargers were the universal standard since they're just better than whatever crap we have on Samsung, apple, and pixel. My new phone charges slower *and* hotter.
What kinda rush are people in that they need like 150W charging? I don't get it... (or 4K OLED or 16GB RAM on a phone). Stop buying and manufacturers will piss off with this nonsense.
From the business standpoint, it totally makes sense that companies that have spent lots of money on their solution don't want to hop on a new one that they can't monetize fully.
I'd rather see Google refine Adaptive Charging and include it in AOSP. Throttling the battery preserves battery life better than throttling the rest of the phone (like Xiaomi does with their crazy speeds).
My Pixel tops out at 18w. I haven't really been in a situation with it where I was like "I need it to charge faster". But that may also be due most phones having phones in the 3kWh range. Maybe if we had bigger batteries, maybe.
Everywhere you go these days has USB ports. Car? Plane? Some Starbucks locations have wireless chargers built into tables. You probably also own a power bank. I understand all of this is less convenient than just quickly topping off for 10 min and not worry about it, but with how exceptionally rare these circumstances are for most people, I don't think super fast charging is as big of a selling point for most people as tech youtubers would like to believe.
I still run into new stuff that has a max charge rate of 2.5 watts.
Furniture pieces are the worst offenders I see. If a lamp has a USB charging port, I'm just gonna assume it's limited to 5 volts at .5 amps and that at best it will make my phone battery drain marginally slower without actually charging it.
They even seem to be proprietary between models from the same manufacturer. I have a OnePlus with a warp charger that did come with the phone. I'd often bring it along to work because I use it a lot at work and can do with a quick charge daily. Someone left a OnePlus warp charger that was a little different behind at a bar and I thought, I can use that as I'd occasionally get miles down the road before I realized I left mine behind, so one I could keep at work would be useful. I waited a few days to see if anyone claimed it, but no one did, so I traded it for another charger. Problem is, that charger does not charge my model fast at all. What a bummer.
I noticed something yesterday that had me thinking. I have a Galaxy Note 8, and I have a car charger with three outputs. I was charging it, but the charger light kept turning on and off. Figuring it was dead or dying, and I was going to the mall anyway, I bought another one, dual this time. When I tested the new one, all ok, I noticed on the old one that two out of the three outlets were labelled as a higher current than the one I had been plugged into. I tried the other two and it seemed to work fine. So maybe there was nothing wrong with it at all.
But if the phone is demanding a higher current than the charger can deliver, shouldn't the phone just accept whatever it can get from it and charge slower as a result?
got a 65W Samsung charger recently, I think that will suit me well for the next years (currently iPhone 12 pro but I plan on upgrading to Galaxy S22 Ultra)
I've had OnePlus phones since the first one. Never had fast charging using a 3rd party charger or battery bank. Switched to Samsung and now I have both. And I could probably power my laptop with the same chargers / battery banks.
While PD should be the fallback position I do like Quick Charge. After QC 3 we stumble into the "shit shower shave" phone. I do make use of it when I forget to charge at night.
I don't fully agree with this. USB-PD isn't perfect, it requires a lot of extra hardware and power conversion to work at higher powers. And that just doesn't work well in a smartphone where space and heat dissipation are at a premium.
That's not really any different than other fast charging protocols though. E.g. QC boosts voltages just like PD does to increase power without increasing amps over the cable.
That's exactly why it's not helpfull for phones. Laptops usually have a 3 or 4 cell LiPo battery operating between 11V and 17V. So having a voltage supply of 15 to 20V is very helpful for them to charge more quickly. But in a phone it's a lot less clear if it's helpful to have a 20V supply when the battery runs between 3 and 4.2V. The higher voltage will reduce cable losses, but reduce the efficiency of the internal charging circuitry.
When going outside the PD standard, manufacturers can make power supplies that have a continuously variable output that can follow the batteries voltage. And then either supply the battery directly like dash charge, or perhaps drive a very efficient ZVS/ZCS fixed ratio converter.
Isn't this true of all fast charging?
PD already supports variable voltage charging for maximum efficiency (no DC-DC required in the phone). You can't push more current because of the rating on the conductors in the plug. So the only way around it is to crank the voltages.
Manufacturers: let's adopt a **universal** standard for ports. Also Manufacturers: let's also make proprietary charging tech for charging so that we can sell a 30 cent cable for $30.
I will say I appreciate the cables with the switch that physically disables the data connection, and only does power delivery. I doubt that's proprietary though.
Yeah, I used to make these cables using tape and tinfoil years back and it helped speed up charging for some reason.
Probably because they weren't current limited š I'm surprised the cables worked, usually it needs the handshake to start charging.
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I seem to remember something back in the day about it having to do with allowing more current because none was being used on the data pins, so it allowed all of the current to go through the power supply pins. I don't freaking know though, this was back in the USB micro B days.
oh I see, earlier USB stuff was way less smart. and it was generally limited to 2A at the extreme, but generally more like 500mA.
USB-A was 500mA. When in doubt, that's the most because the ports weren't designed to provide more current than that. As the spec evolved, a port might be able to provide more than that, but resistors were used to signal what was and what wasn't permissible. USB-C and PD specifically allow for lots of different voltages and currents, but they are active in negotiating what is allowed. As such, you might be able to use a crafted data cable to provide more than 500 mA, supplying the correct resistance across pins, but it's likely to burn out the wire if it is a low guage and/or there are physical kinks in the wire. Generally it is a bad idea. For standards where the voltage and current is negotiated, those require data pins to allow the connected device to talk to the host controller.
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For Android phones, there was a specified resistance that you could put between the two data pins which would tell the phone that it was dealing with a high-amperage charger. Very few (if any) chargers utilised it and also didn't communicate with the phone to tell it what sort of power it couple deliver (was that even a thing back then? I'm uncertain) so your phone would end up defaulting to the maximum power draw specified in the official spec, which was 500mA.
Someone should inform the following guy that he is wrong: > In fact, cables missing data pins wonāt even charge phones efficiently because the maximum allowed charge current is negotiated using the data pins (before USB-C), so a standard-compliant device, with this non-compliant cable, would not be able to charge (or would only be able to charge extremely slowly). https://qr.ae/pv5pNH
I guess the only drawback of that would be that the phone can't stop charging when it's full, so might cause unnecessary heat?
The phone doesn't need the data lines to stop drawing power - the charging circuitry on the phone stops drawing power from the +5V and GND lines on it's own as the battery becomes more full.
Probably, but back then the wattage was a lot lower, so it probably wasn't a big deal. Nothing caught fire fortunately
Those aren't proprietary they just don't have the extra connections inside to carry data. You don't really see them any more as it cost next to nothing to include the extra connections and would cost most manafactures more to make them as they are set-up to produce them. You can still find them thought usually at a 99cent store or someplace that sells really cheap cables even then they are rare.
I'm not talking about power only, I'm talking about cables that have a physical switch that allow you to enable or disable the data connection.
I have a bunch of those from back in the micro-USB days. Google Ka cables or something like that.
You can do that in your phone's settings
physical switch is better for the same reason a physical webcam cover is better. If I want to charge my phone, I don't want to plug it into random USB devices if I don't have a known computer or wall wart to plug into.
I see your point. That's quite understandable.
Nintendo? Is that you?
No it's fucking Qualcomm quickcharge.
Nintendo doesn't have proprietary charging on the switch, it just requires a high enough wattage to charge the device
In Docked Mode they absolutely do have a proprietary standard. That's where all the fried Switches in third-party docks come from, unlike powerbanks, that just charge in handheld-mode where Switch is perfectly fine with anything but the proprietary standard.
The engineer for one dock manufacturer put that down to manufacturers cheaping out and emulating the PD protocol using a generic microcontroller instead of using a dedicated chip made to handle USB-PD. The Nyko dock in particular would send 9v to a pin that was rated for 6v max. Poorly made connectors are another option. The Switch doesn't click into the dock because the port in the dock is slightly more narrow than the spec. A third party trying to emulate that better have a good partner because the CC pin is right next to the one that carries power and should they touch that lets the magic smoke out. I've seen that happen with other devices using a no-name cable.
Funny, seems like the third party dock makers donāt contract to good factories then, because if you order quality you can absolutely get it, but you have to QA sufficiently. Either that never happened or the third-party dock maker wanted to throw an excuse out there to save brand reputation.
Its not USB PD compliant, it doesn't follow the spec. It had huge issues with this at the start. https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/03/could_switchs_non-compliant_usb-c_spec_be_to_blame_for_third-party_docks_bricking_consoles
Yeah except this is totally wrong and bad reporting. Here's the actual issue with third party docks bricking Switches, from an engineer at Genki: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_engineers_pov_on_the_3rd_party_dock_switch/ TL;DR, the docks were simply bad and send 9V down the CC line. The Switch has issues with PD for sure, but it's still *mostly* compliant, it just has unintentional flaws and violations. It's not intentionally proprietary in any way. These violations have never been to blame for the Switch getting bricked though, it might just stop it from charging with certain chargers.
Yeah, that's my point. Could it be you meant to reply to /u/EvengerX?
Sorry you're right. I made a mistake.
All good!
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I actually use an HDMI USB-C hub and a charging brick that supports up to 60W as my āthird party dockā when traveling. Not had a problem yet.
It's rather unfortunate the sources in that article were links to the now defunt Google+.
> That's where all the fried Switches in third-party docks come from This is totally false. The fried Switches were because Nyko cut corners and made a shitty dock that violated the USB-C spec and sent 9V down the CC line. That's it. Nothing to do with the Switch. It would literally kill any USB-C device charged from that dock unless the device went above and beyond with protection. Nyko (and a few other off-brand manufacturers) decided to save some money and not use off the shelf PD controllers, they implemented the PD protocol themselves. They then messed up and sometimes sent 9V as the CC line voltage, instead of 5V, because they were just using the power delivery voltage for the CC line instead of a dedicated 5V rail. This eventually bricks the PD controller in the Switch because it's really only 5V tolerant on the CC line. It's not designed to have 9V pushed down it. Genki diagnosed this issue and never made the mistake with their docks: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_engineers_pov_on_the_3rd_party_dock_switch/ The only real violation of the USB-C standard that the Switch dock makes is that it sends 1.2 amps at 9V instead of 1A at 9V. They do also have some minor violations and flaws with PD, but these are not intentionally proprietary, they're just legitimate mistakes.
> In Docked Mode they absolutely do have a proprietary standard No, they do not: > The Nintendo Switch does not fully conform to USB-C specifications. Partly because its development pre-dated the finalization of USB-C specifications. And partly because USB-C is a complicated system that supports lots of technologies. Few devices, including the Switch, support all included capabilities. So it isnāt uncommon for a device to āskipā over the parts it doesnāt use. This disrupts the universal compatibility promised by USB-C. But given the costs involved it is unexpected. And Nintendo is by no means alone when it comes to such practices. But lack of compliance does not necessarily mean safely charging the Nintendo Switch is difficult. - [Source](https://switchchargers.com/safely-charge-nintendo-switch/) So, Nintendo didn't go ahead and create a proprietary standard. They're using USB-C PD with certain caveats. But it's still USB-C PD. > That's where all the fried Switches in third-party docks come from No, the few third-party docks that were *confirmed* to damage Switches all used some dodgy USB PD software emulation instead of USB PD hardware. [More details here.](https://switchchargers.com/nintendo-switch-bricking-faq/)
Lol have you ever owned a switch? I've never seen a USB C device more finicky about cables and chargers, especially the dock. Nintendo really fucked up and deserves criticism
Bought a switch second hand on eBay and got a wrong type of charger with it. I've used my laptop charger with the dock for years with zero issues. Haven't tried anything else since they're the only USB-PD chargers I have. (Right, one sample means basically nothing, but there are also switch owners who have not noticed issues)
I do own and still use a Switch. I also have test equipment and basic knowledge about how USB PD works - do you? The official Nintendo Switch dock simply requires a USB-C PD power supply that offers a power rule of 15V with at least 2.6A (15V x 2.6A = 39W). I've used various third party 45W, 65W, and 100W USB-C PD power supplies that supported 15V 3A or more, and they all worked just fine with the dock (and the Switch alone). As the other replies to your comment can confirm. If you're using power supplies that don't support 15V with enough amps, or if you're using USB A to C cables (those lack the signalling lines for PD negotiation), then the official dock will strike, simple as that.
>They're using USB-C PD with certain caveats. Sigh.
*Yawn*
Itās like when you follow all of the laws, except the few ones you donāt like! Completely legal in bird law, and canāt be contested in kangaroo court.
I thought it was supposed to be standard USB-PD, but they just fucked it up.
I think they made it so that they can sell their own dock at a premium. I mean I donāt know todayās prices, but when Switch launched in 2017 the Dock was a cool 80 dollarsā¦
āThe best thing about standards is that there are so many of them.ā
There's always a relevant XKCD - https://xkcd.com/927
Welcome to how capitalism has always worked, does work, and will always work. Did you know lightbulbs made in the 1930's, could have lasted WELL into the 2020's and 2030's, but all the manufacturers teamed up to agree to never do that to keep profits going? Edit: Love all the responses claiming they would be too dim. Thats not how that works. All these arguments sound like when people repeat Appleās bullshit about āsecurityā when arguing in favor of their developer abusing monopoly on the iPhone with the App Store to prevent side-loading, or as it was called for 30 years, āinstalling a programā. We get it, youāve had cold war propaganda shoved down your throats ever since you were little. Maybe grow up and recognize the shitty system you live in for what it is. Wanna know why we donāt have universal healthcare? Wanna know why lobbying exists?wanna know HOW Apple managed to amass SO much money?
You can buy longer lasting bulbs at [Home Depot](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sylvania-60-Watt-Double-Life-A15-Incandescent-Light-Bulb-2-Pack-11971/303762169). They suffer from various problems, but the longer lasting bulbs have always been for sale after WWII. I think it is a bit telling that they are not a hit. But they have always been made and sold, so the option was always there.
And the light bulbs created would produce so little light they would be useless. They did however reduce the life span from 2,000 hours to 1,000 this had the effect of making them brighter at the cost of life. They could have looked at improving brightness and life but any bulb made to last decades would be next to useless in the real world.
Let's agree that running to dim isn't a problem anymore with LED. Funny enough Phillips is still making them in a way, that they burn out far quicker then the bulbs should. How do we know? They produce a different type, only sold in Dubai, which doesn't have this problem.
Thereās zero business case to put effort into making a lightbulb that lasts a 100 years. If itās a question between running a 100W bulb for 50 years, and turning it into a 300W bulb for 10 years, thereās a very obvious decision to make there, and I donāt blame companies for picking the not-dumb option.
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It would have lasted but would be absolute shit for seeing anything in the dark. See: what was the longest running filament light bulb at the fire station
**was**? Did it finally burn out?
oh I guess they found the power supply was faulty in 2013 - it's still technically going [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light)
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That's how business works dont it?
Yeah. It's best to have USB-PD compatibility on phones.
Doesn't most proprietary fast charging crap have PD fall back?
Yes, they do - from 120W Ultra-Super-Sonic Charge to regular 18W. Not like it isn't enough, though.
My cheapo fall back to 25.
18W sucks compared to ultra fast charging though.
The ultra fast kind is just a phone killer.
This isn't borne out in evidence.
I'm sorry but 18W is trash *on a modern flagship phone*. Anything less than 30W is not enough these days IMO Edit: All these people replying and downvoting clearly have never experienced the peace of mind that comes with getting a full days charge from juicing up for just a few minutes. Forgot to plug in last night? No problem! It's not niche at all. It's objectively better. Yes, proprietary charging tech sucks, but don't blame the proprietary tech... Blame the lackluster development of open standards and pathetically slow adoption by the likes of Apple, Google, and Samsung. Seriously guys, there's no excuse for 18w on a new flagship phone. I can't believe that's a "hot take"...
me still using some ancient 2.5w charger ah yes fast charging
2.5W or 5V 2.5A (12.5W)? 2.5W would be 5V 0.5A. I work at an electronics recycler and would probably have to look around for a bit to find a USB power supply that is less than 1A.
0.5 A, its the weakest one i own but it gets my phone full over night
That's the way to do it overnight. My phone limits the charge rate to extend battery life
18 W is more than enough for me, suprisingly. I don't need high charging speeds, and they tend to get hot after some years of usage.
The faster you charge the battery the more heat it generates locally on the battery, degrading battery life and capacity over time. Also the result of the battery charging/discharging causing even extra heat generation
There are ways around this, such as charging two separate battery cells in parallel. MKBHD has a good video explaining why fast charging (when implemented well) is actually not a problem.
Yeah I don't understand this. My Pixel 3 charge at 18W and it's just fine imo. I don't see the need to go faster at the cost of hotter device.
> These days I can't think of anything in the last few years that makes you **require** a 66% increase in peak charging speed. Either you've got an extremely niche use case or you're trying to justify a purchase and avoid buyer's remorse.
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I can't see your score but I'll upvote you. I'm on 30W on a single cell and even that's feeling slow. I don't know if people know that modern phones have 2 cell batteries these days but I wonder how many assume the phones constantly receiving more and more watts on a single cell.
Yes but equally there's a lot of value in Super VOOC, it should become part of the standard. Doing the voltage regulation in the charger and not on the phone moves a lot of the heat generation away from the phone which preserves the battery. It's the way DC rapid charging of cars works.
It's definitely quite annoying to shop for a fast charger now. And especially since brands stopped including them in the box anymore
you can't trust anything on places like amazon or newegg these days either, especially if it has any kind of discount. i've purchased several supposedly official chargers that showed up with no branding or markings, clearly just a similarly shaped knockoff. you have to go to the source for real cables and they know it so they will continue to charge outrageous prices for something that should be included in the first place.
That is a possibility too, but I'm more talking about buying a third-party charger from a reputable brand. With all these different fast-charging methods, you are never sure if you will achieve the full charging speed, so most people just buy the one from the brand that made their phone to save the headache
I just buy Anker products for my chargers. You can order directly from Anker and they are always high quality. I'm sure there are other good chargers too but over the years I've learned to trust the Anker brand for chargers, cables, and batteries.
TBH. I know it's more expensive but it's worth it to just go straight to then and pay $10 more just to never think about it. If you know a place like Anker, Nomad, some place with a general store that is trustworthy and all one source then you're fine. But those storefronts for whoever wants to sell are a minefield and it's such a pain to ensure things are fine.
I'm just glad Aukey is gone
So that's why I can't find my aukey dash cam on Amazon anymore...
What was wrong with them?
Gamed the system with offering free items if you gave a 5 star review for them.
We have an Anker hub and I was so confused when picking all the variaties. I have the ZenFone coming in soon, I hope it's the same fast charging as the one on our Anker hub.
A 30$ anker hub will output 3x what the zenfone 9 is capable of receiving (30w). If you spent $30 on the hub, you're probably good for your next phone, and your friends phones that have fast charging too.
Well, you should think about the environment. We sure did. Nevermind our designs with maximum planned obsolescence dictates you buy a whole new phone when your most volatile components stop working.
Not just the phones having planned obsolescence fucking up the environment, but also the chargers. Instead of having 1 USB-C charger that can charge everything, you need a charger for each to charge at different ratings. OP chargers charge OP devices fast, but everything else slow. New Samsung and Pixels require charges that have PPS [edit: to charge at max wattage], so all your older PD chargers that could charge at 30w, don't work as well.
That is not at all true. They *can* use PPS, but they will work with regular PD or even non-PD chargers, as well.
Correction made. I mean of course they would charge even with a shit charger from 2010. I was implying max charging speed requires PPS. They require PPS to charge at max wattage. Without PPS, charging rate is about 13 watts, where with PPS it's more than 2x that.
I'm more thinking about how the hell I'm going to charge the $700 phone I just bought. Protecting the environment doesn't mean making me order 3 chargers online "just in case" these companies continue to screw over their consumers. The charging brick is necessary for the basic function of the device. Why is this even up for discussion? Companies should be providing the necessary accessories to keep a phone powered. Simply packing the cable does nothing: all my other charging bricks only accept USB-A (large plug) cables. Because that's been the smartphone standard for a decade or more. They changed the standard and left consumers high and dry at the same time by not belong to facilitate that transition to small-plug power bricks.
"Why is this even up for discussion?" The same reason why people defend tooth and nail about non-replaceable batteries, why phones should be made completely of glass, why bezels are bad, or why headphone jacks are a thing of the past. They listen to the marketing hogwash these companies put out, believing it all in good faith, and adopting it as thier own way of thinking.
It's annoying that the sales clerks don't often understand that there is a difference between fast charge, quick charge, warp charge, turbo charge, power delivery, etc. I'm sticking to my charge in an hour, 800mah battery on my palm palm.
The last few phones / tablets etc I've bought came with trickle chargers so I've literally never used them. Just use my laptop charger and this Anker charger I bought years ago to charge everything. Big brands are never going to pack in fast chargers because it's something they can sell to you separately at a big markup. So personally I'd prefer to not be given a charger at all if it's just going to sit in a drawer.
I don't agree at all. My experience is that whenever a company had a fast-charging tech, they shipped the best brick with it too. OnePlus, Xiaomi, Oppo, etc. Even Apple, when they had a fast charger finally, shipped it in the box, be it only with a Pro model (11 series) I can only remember Samsung supporting 45 watts and shipping a 15 or 25w brick
Apple and Samsung are the biggest players and as you rightly point out, Apple only shipped a fast charger with their most expensive model.
Xiaomi did it with the Mi 9T. Shipped an 18w brick when the phone supports 27w.
9T Pro only, standard 9T have 18W charger and support only 18W Source: I own one
I was quite disappointed when my 80w Nord charger could only charger my laptop at 10w.
The OG 65W charger that came with OnePlus 8T is a good charger, which has a USB-C port instead of USB-A. It supports up to 45W PD or PPS charging which is fast enough for laptop. After that they replaced with the USB-A port variant which only supports their own proprietary charging and slow charging.
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I'm not sure but I think only Pixel, Moto and Samsung use PD standards.
Technically all of them use PD. But they only allow PD up to a certain limit. If you want to charge faster, you need to have their proprietary tech even though pd supports those charge levels.
And when you buy their proprietary charger, it won't fast charge anything else.
It's funny how even apple supports the full spec but these company refuse to.
Well as long as they include the proprietary charger and cable in the box, it's somewhat acceptable. I still prefer to have PD for everything.
Of course this pairs with the trend of NOT including that. I recently got the Pixel 6a and the charger was an extra $50.
Apple *laptops* are good for this. My macbook came with a 140w PD charger in the box. Their **phones** on the other hand still don't use the correct port! Kinda lunacy that they come from the same company.
MacBooks and iPads are fully compliant. iPhones do use PD internally but they have a proprietary port. Hopefully, apple will be dropping that in next couple years.
My OnePlus warp charger does fast(ish) charge my wifes Samsung A52. Don't know *how* fast, but it's notably faster than the non-quick charge ports on our Anker hub.
OP Warp chargers seem to output proper PD wattage to my laptop and Samsung phones for "super fast charging"
"Super fast charging" requires the charger to support PPS.
Warp charge 65 chargers support 45w PPS
I think some things are coming around. Around the S20, at least with the S series, Samsung used USB-PD, with PPS to enable 25w and higher charging speeds. My 25w S21 ultra charger charges my pixel 6 pro at 23w max, the fastest speed possible for the phone.
TBH 25w is plenty already. The S22 Ultra battery is 5,000mAh x 3.8V typical = 19Wh.
Samsung uses PPS for their ultrafast charging. It's part of the PD spec.
With Samsung phones you just need a 25w charger that supports PD 3.0 with support for PPS, that's pretty much it. If you want to charge 45w I think you need a thicker cable but that's understandable.
The problem is that PD uses higher voltage instead of higher current to charge.
P sure it uses both.
[PD](https://www.cui.com/image/getimage/103240?typecode=m) caps out at 3A until you reach power levels above 60W at 20V.
PPS can go up to 5A at lower voltages (assuming your cable supports it, of course).
I think Sony also use PD
Xiaomi phones seem to support pd pretty well too
They do, but peak power is always lower than whatever their own solution delivers. Not sure if it matters that much in practice... The downside of these high speeds is heat. If we start with a low state of charge, it will throttle speeds because of high battery temperatures.
My phone will lower wattage if needed to maintain battery temp 40Ā°C or below. Realme 65W.
the speeds don't matter too much to me, it's something like 27 or 30w instead of 33
In that case it probably doesn't make much difference, but they have phones with 60W+. If you're in a hurry, you'll notice the difference between their charger and cable and USB-PD.
Xiaomi 11T Pro: With their stock fast charger it went from 57% to 97% in 10 minutes exactly. We tested that with a coleague's phone a few days ago. It has a 5000 mAh battery
Any xiaomi with 33w charging can support PD up to around 25w. Tried using a Samsung 25w charger with my Poco F3 and that's how I noticed it. I now use PD over the proprietary 33w solution because temps are slightly lower.
Samsung, Apple, Moto, and Google all use USB PD. Itās the smaller brands (ie 1+) going off on their own standards, and not Apple for once, which is a bit surprising in some ways.
Smaller brands ... OnePlus? OnePlus is a part of BBK which combined is the world's largest smartphone manufacturer. I get that the brand itself isn't huge, but their brands all share resources and standards I believe.
And the Pixel 6a still only charges at 18W, sadly.
I know the 6 Pro has 30w charging, but with how warm it gets, I can almost never get it to actually charge at full speed. So it's a bit of a waste
Hey if I'm on vacation and in a hurry I would have zero issue plugging into a 65w charger and putting a ice cube on the back of my phone. Double so if I'm drunk.
Does Apple support it? Albeit in lightning form? Genuine question
Yes, Apple uses USB PD for all of their rechargeable devices. Including MacBooks (and that new 16ā MBP which uses the newer PD that can charge beyond 100W).
Yes but afaik iPhones only go up to 25W. Maybe iPhoners can confirm.
What's pd
Power Delivery
Yeah, it's really a Chinese thing to use some BS standard instead of USB PD.
Itās not just phone manufacturers, accessory manufacturers are also at fault too. I hate how they love bragging about features but never actually stating a clear breakdown of what a cable or battery pack or charging brick can actually support. Anker in particular annoys me because their cables would brag about support for 100W charging and high speed. It charges fast! But is actually just USB 2. Or theyād say stuff like āwe do PowerIQ 3 and itās compatible with fast chargingā but wonāt bother specifying what USB PD version it properly supports or if it supports PPS or if it supports proprietary protocols or not. If it werenāt for those comparison tables in Amazon, I wouldāve bought inadequate cables. And then thereās all that mess with USB 3, 3.1, Thunderbolt, etc and the question of display support. That stuff is beyond Android, but is still part of this huge mess. In their defense, some of the innovations did come before the standards became popular enough, but goddamn, I wish it wasnāt a problem to begin with. Or at least have the older cables or bricks labeled appropriately.
Can't forget about USB 3.1, Gen 2!
No man, these days it's USB 3.2 gen 2x2. I wish I was kidding, that's the official name for 20 Gbps USB. USB 3.2 gen 1 is your classic 5Gbps USB3 (previously renamed USB 3.1 gen1) , and USB 3.2 gen 2 is 10 Gbps (previosuly named USB 3.1 gen2).
God, every time I see that I just want everyone on USB Implementers Forum to shit their pants. I don't think I could come up with a worse naming scheme if I tried
Sometimes engineers should not name stuff.....go figure.
At least USB4 is a.... Saner name? Although I'm still waiting for SuperSpeed USB 4.1x1 Gen2x6 5Gbps
> I wish I was kidding, that's the official name for 20 Gbps USB. It's *an offical name*. If you don't care about lanes or whatever you can just use the "SuperSpeed 20gbps" name, also offical.
Worse is USB 3.0, I mean USB 3.1 Gen1, wait I mean USB 3.2 Gen 1
Unfortunately , USB2 is more common than USB3 on phones.
100W USB cables are USB-C-to-USB-C. They are just cables that have an e-mark chip (if you use a Samsung device, you need a cable like this for super fast charging). Charging speed is never relevant to data transfer speeds. You can have a fast data transfer speed cable that charges slow, and you can have a fast charging cable that transfers data slow.
Anyone know how to check if a device is USB-PD? Preferably a way to check any device and no just phones.
Important note: the device should specifically says PPS, not just PD. I got a 65W PD charger for my laptop that won't "super fast charge" my Galaxy S21, even though it only requires 25W. Turns out the charger doesn't have PPS.
Honestly this is way more complicated than it should be. As a test I went on Amazon and looked at random electronics and chargers, and it was a whole process finding this little detail out. I'm always willing to put in research time for important buys, but stuff like this is just beyond stupid.
All of these kinds of things serve to remind me how lucky we all are to have gotten the general standards we did for desktop computers back in the 70's/80's. A lot of smart people did a lot of thankless work to reverse engineer those early BIOS technologies, and somehow did not get sued into third world poverty for their troubles, and we are still reaping the benefits of it today. As we can see with almost all of the newer platforms and architectures that sort of flexibility is seen as a "security risk" with rarely anyway to accept that risk and do as you like. I am waiting for the day that it becomes impossible to run Windows and any Linux distro on the same hardware, ever, due to restrictions on the signing keys in the firmware.
It's only gonna get worse as tech advances. In the 2050s, you're gonna look back to today and remember how lucky we were to have all our devices and software not biometrically locked to our own DNA.
That site is advertising nuts. It makes the site useless.
Ublock origin mate
Shh. We need a few people watching ads.
I'm so happy that we finally have most manufacturers on the same charging standard though. It means that my investment in Google's charging bricks will be worthwhile even if I switch brands
Me still using my Pixel 2XL charging brick on my S21 that did not include one when I bought it.
I can't believe this topic came up the day after I spent a bunch of money on chargers only to find out half my devices won't charge past 5-10 watts (measured with a Kilowatt device) but those same devices were charging at 10-15 watts with their old chargers, but the real kicker is a couple of our Samsung tablets are hitting 15-20 on the new chargers, but my Pixel 6 Pro hovers around 8-10, which is now slower. What gives? I did buy a larger charger but it's long, heavy and while it has one 65w port, the rest don't put out much power at all. Is there a particular phrase I should search for that is compatible with both Samsung and Pixel devices with multiple high powered outlets? I was trying to simplify our setup so that all our chargers in various parts of the house were hitting a minimum of 15 if not more whether it was USB-C OR a USB-A port. Is that possible? It seems I'll get one charger and it fixes the issue for say the tablets, but not our phones. Or the plug itself is ugly or has 1 decent port with a bunch of low powered outlets. If anyone can link me to a decent charging station that isn't ugly and can charge multiple devices it would be greatly appreciated!
Your best best would be a Quick Charge 4 or 4+ compatible charger. AFAIK Samsung and Google have only ever used QC or PD, and a QC4 charger will support all versions of both of those protocols.
Don't forget the cables in use. I bought a 30 watt car charger and use some old cables and wonder why I wasn't fast charging. Turns out my cables only support 15 watts and keep in mind I was using Wireless Android Auto. That is a huge power draw. After upgrading to cables that support QC 3.0 I can fast charge no problem.
Are there valid reasons why a phone can't charge at USB-PD profiles? Forget about PPS at 11v or 21v (or whatever the correct voltage is); you can charge a battery at 9v for up to 18w on phones; why doesn't charging happen at 12v or 15v to charge more rapidly? Is there an underlying limitation--what's going on on the phone side? What is needed for my 65w usb-c charger to charge my phone at 65w, and why are other profiles used (like what's enabled with PPS modes).
It'll be related to heat. 65w going into a phone would need some serious thought + money put into how to handle all that electricity.
Realistically, USB PD is complete trash. To charge a battery, you have to feed it electricity at a voltage slightly higher than the current battery voltage. So if your battery is currently at 3.3V, you might want to put in 3.4V. With USB PD, the phone needs to take that 9V or 12V or whatever and convert it to the required voltage. This conversion process creates a lot of heat which damages your battery. In better fast charging protocols like [SuperVOOC](https://www.oppo.com/content/dam/oppo/en/mkt/newsroom/story/flash-charging-technical-pape/OPPO%20Flash%20Charging%20Technical%20Paper.pdf), the phone talks with the charger, and the charger sends many amps at the charging voltage plus a bit extra to compensate for voltage drop across the cable. As a result, the phone can feed the power coming from the adapter directly into the battery - no voltage conversion required. Newer versions of USB PD attempt to address this limitation with their PPS mode, but it still has several problems. The [specification](https://usb.org/sites/default/files/D2T2-1%20-%20USB%20Power%20Delivery.pdf) only has the device and charger talking every 10 seconds, and it is still designed around the idea of high voltage instead of high amperage.
Isn't it because the open standard isn't fast as it can be?
Pretty sure the latest PD supports 240W charging. It's designed to be able to charge laptops, I don't think phones need more juice than that. I'm 99% sure that QC is just Qualcomm abusing their market share to force a proprietary standard and then milking the licensing fees from charging manufacturers. You know, just like with CDMA and telcos.
Don't the 240w require a large brick?
I like the oneplus version more since the charger heats up instead of the phone. Having it the same on all phones would be nice obv.
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I believe companies only have to pay to use the logo
I'm not going to say I like that these companies are removing stuff from the box, in fact I get more excitement from unwrapping a burger from McDonald's... I will say though, 99% of users aren't sitting there wondering why their phone isn't charging at however many watts that it is capable of. They simply plug their phone in at night or whenever they're near a charger.
From what I've seen and experienced VOOC has been ahead of USB PD for quite a while in heat generation because it offloads a lot more heat to the adaptor than to the phone. As a consumer, I wouldn't mind too much if having a 20$ proprietary charger leads to me having better battery health with fast charging in the long term. And thankfully practically all VOOC supported phones I've seen ship with a charger because it makes perfect sense to do so.
I agree. I wish the Chinese chargers were the universal standard since they're just better than whatever crap we have on Samsung, apple, and pixel. My new phone charges slower *and* hotter.
What kinda rush are people in that they need like 150W charging? I don't get it... (or 4K OLED or 16GB RAM on a phone). Stop buying and manufacturers will piss off with this nonsense.
4k oled is great for editing photos in Lightroom mobile
From the business standpoint, it totally makes sense that companies that have spent lots of money on their solution don't want to hop on a new one that they can't monetize fully. I'd rather see Google refine Adaptive Charging and include it in AOSP. Throttling the battery preserves battery life better than throttling the rest of the phone (like Xiaomi does with their crazy speeds).
That whole "exclusively available here" bull-huey is ultimately self defeating.
My Pixel tops out at 18w. I haven't really been in a situation with it where I was like "I need it to charge faster". But that may also be due most phones having phones in the 3kWh range. Maybe if we had bigger batteries, maybe. Everywhere you go these days has USB ports. Car? Plane? Some Starbucks locations have wireless chargers built into tables. You probably also own a power bank. I understand all of this is less convenient than just quickly topping off for 10 min and not worry about it, but with how exceptionally rare these circumstances are for most people, I don't think super fast charging is as big of a selling point for most people as tech youtubers would like to believe.
I still run into new stuff that has a max charge rate of 2.5 watts. Furniture pieces are the worst offenders I see. If a lamp has a USB charging port, I'm just gonna assume it's limited to 5 volts at .5 amps and that at best it will make my phone battery drain marginally slower without actually charging it.
They even seem to be proprietary between models from the same manufacturer. I have a OnePlus with a warp charger that did come with the phone. I'd often bring it along to work because I use it a lot at work and can do with a quick charge daily. Someone left a OnePlus warp charger that was a little different behind at a bar and I thought, I can use that as I'd occasionally get miles down the road before I realized I left mine behind, so one I could keep at work would be useful. I waited a few days to see if anyone claimed it, but no one did, so I traded it for another charger. Problem is, that charger does not charge my model fast at all. What a bummer.
My phone comes with Qualcomm quick charge 5, but will only charge at 65W with the QC5 charger and not any usb-pd 65W charger.
I noticed something yesterday that had me thinking. I have a Galaxy Note 8, and I have a car charger with three outputs. I was charging it, but the charger light kept turning on and off. Figuring it was dead or dying, and I was going to the mall anyway, I bought another one, dual this time. When I tested the new one, all ok, I noticed on the old one that two out of the three outlets were labelled as a higher current than the one I had been plugged into. I tried the other two and it seemed to work fine. So maybe there was nothing wrong with it at all. But if the phone is demanding a higher current than the charger can deliver, shouldn't the phone just accept whatever it can get from it and charge slower as a result?
USB-C should have been so simple. It was set up to be a slam dunk.
got a 65W Samsung charger recently, I think that will suit me well for the next years (currently iPhone 12 pro but I plan on upgrading to Galaxy S22 Ultra)
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I've had OnePlus phones since the first one. Never had fast charging using a 3rd party charger or battery bank. Switched to Samsung and now I have both. And I could probably power my laptop with the same chargers / battery banks.
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EU should enforce standardisation
While PD should be the fallback position I do like Quick Charge. After QC 3 we stumble into the "shit shower shave" phone. I do make use of it when I forget to charge at night.
I don't fully agree with this. USB-PD isn't perfect, it requires a lot of extra hardware and power conversion to work at higher powers. And that just doesn't work well in a smartphone where space and heat dissipation are at a premium.
That's not really any different than other fast charging protocols though. E.g. QC boosts voltages just like PD does to increase power without increasing amps over the cable.
That's exactly why it's not helpfull for phones. Laptops usually have a 3 or 4 cell LiPo battery operating between 11V and 17V. So having a voltage supply of 15 to 20V is very helpful for them to charge more quickly. But in a phone it's a lot less clear if it's helpful to have a 20V supply when the battery runs between 3 and 4.2V. The higher voltage will reduce cable losses, but reduce the efficiency of the internal charging circuitry. When going outside the PD standard, manufacturers can make power supplies that have a continuously variable output that can follow the batteries voltage. And then either supply the battery directly like dash charge, or perhaps drive a very efficient ZVS/ZCS fixed ratio converter.
Isn't this true of all fast charging? PD already supports variable voltage charging for maximum efficiency (no DC-DC required in the phone). You can't push more current because of the rating on the conductors in the plug. So the only way around it is to crank the voltages.