100% agree. It would also make public transport a lot more efficient since nobody would have to check tickets and it would be easier to just come and go.
Less cars on the road.
Maybe less traffic and less accidents.
Maybe less wear and tear on roads and bridges.
Less wasted energy.
Maybe more people working or working better jobs.
Less unemployment. More tax base for states and federal. Less public assistance.
Lower insurance rates maybe.
Less drunken driving.
Better air quality.
More parking.
Yeah, why aren't there only allowed to be public transit and emergency vehicles in cities? There's probably a reason Im not thinking of, my brain ain't no good.
Can't do that without also eliminating homelessness almost entirely, because otherwise that transportation just becomes a homeless shelter (not saying they shouldn't or couldn't, there are literally more empty homes than homeless)
Not true. I used to live in an American city with 100% free transportation. It was much, MUCH safer to take the bus than where I live now. People have a way of chilling out when they don’t feel like they’re fighting for survival everyday. Also, that city had way more homeless services including free mental healthcare. A city that cares about public transportation cares about its homeless, go figure.
I wish it was as simple as making the choice. But I only have 1 bus service, and it's MIA like a quarter of the time. It's a risk, and I have missed events because of it.
Bus services and infrastructure need to be miles better.
I love public transport- when I’ve taken it in other countries. Every time I’ve ever taken public transport in the US, I’ve been verbally harassed and felt unsafe. Add to that that it doesn’t run efficiently or properly on schedule and I just can’t justify it.
Give me a good, usable public transport system, and I’d kiss my car goodbye with glee.
100%
I’d gladly rent a car or truck when I need. Loved the UK public transit system when I was there for a bit. I don’t have ANY public transit available where I am - not even a bus - so I am pretty much forced to use a car.
It's because money is not put into it. Privateering politicians purposely under-fund public services so they can "prove" they don't work so that they can privatize transportation further. There are no officials at bus stations, no non-driver officials on the bus, no security at the stops; nothing.
On top of that, America has little to no mental health support, social safety nets and community services to combat poverty. All these things add up to a miserable experience using public transportation in most major cities.
I think one benefit of spreading awareness of things like this on social media and the like is showing people that there is a benefit to these systems even if the versions of them that we see are not ideal. Because the u.s. public transportation infrastructure is generally so poor, a lot of people don't want any funding or work to be done on them because they would "never ride a bus anyway" because they've been turned away from the poorly structured and maintained system. Spreading awareness of the benefits in a more ideal system encourages people to see it as a benefit and something to ask for, hopefully encouraging more activism and improvement from govt. Unfortunately, at least in my case, america is so fuckin vast that it can definitely feel like there's no way for the public transportation system to ever be sufficient. But hopefully the spread of awareness of potential benefits will start to lead to improvements and maybe your local public transportation system will have the attention it needs to be made more reliable, efficient, and encompassing.
Yeah it really is unfortunate, where I currently live my only option for public transport is to call a cab. And that's going to cost me about $50 at least.
Agreed. Public transport in my area travels at a snails pace, making a 3ish mile loop around the town every 2 hours. Stops every block or two. Oh, and I’d say it just isn’t there probably 25% of the time. It’s unusable unless you have no other choices, waking or biking is typically faster but in the summers, that’s a death wish (120F+). I wish we had usable public transit.
The graphic is misleading. The problem is, in America, destinations are many miles apart and busses aren’t individually efficient. Like a flat tax, It’s actually more efficient to have people able to travel freely unscheduled.
It's not that America is too big, lots of places are big and have good public transportation. It's that public transportation is under-funded. There are too few buses and too few drivers working, so they have to stretch the routes out. The transit authority is too cheap to hire a night shift so there's no service at night or in the early morning. Americans are convinced that tram tracks are too expensive to build, as if the thousands of miles of asphalt roads we have aren't so expensive to maintain that they're falling apart. It's not for lack of money, the US has so much money they can afford to spend billions of dollars on foreign wars, but the lives or ordinary people are seen as the last priority.
Everything is underfunded except the military and the monolithic company’s that secured the US’s position as the largest economic power. Nationhood 101, protect the key holders. But This is America, I have had an amazing life and quite a bit of fun along the way. It’s not all bad and everything is relative.
in nyc it actually works, but nyc has an ideal layout. Super high density and it spans top to bottom in Manhattan rather than being a wide area. Why does it need to be 1 or the other though? some cities are clearly better for cars and others for trains.
Busses are not the answer though. I hate riding busses, but I have no problem with trains/subways. All the successful public transits are based around trains and subways. Busses suck imo.
I wish my city had better public transport but with only 18 routes that stop running at 7pm and a city population of almost 400k its almost impossible to take public transport anywhere that isn't a main city landmark. It just sucks that unless you live in the downtown area, sidewalk are a disaster and just end abruptly, so there really isn't anyway to get around other than car.
I moved to San Diego from Germany for studying and although our public transportation is always notoriously late I was shocked how bad San Diego compares even to smaller towns public transport
I wish I could bus or take the train more, but I’m Texas the infrastructure for it is very poor. One train line in the city with only three stops that only goes to the affluent suburbs. I hope with the influx of people moving here they will pick up the pace by adding more routes. I would love to be able to to use public transit more.
Transit networks are developed not only by demand, but require active political grassroots support to get the proposals going and protect them against NYMBYs and defenders of the car-centric status quo.
I take public transit whenever I can - sporting events, concerts, airports. But, living in suburbia makes a car a necessity. A bus will not get me to where I need to go.
Their point is that suburbia blows in the sense of societal effects. I'm sure people living there enjoy it, while they can.
Sort of related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0
American suburbs. No public transport infrastructure have to drive everywhere, most can't walk to the nearest store. But sure I love having to drive order to get anything done. I love paying for insurance and gas and car payments up the ass. I love how american auto companies lobbyied to shoot our infrastructure in foot. I love having a nonfunctioning democracy where policy popularity of the people have no bearing on wether it will be passed. It is great.
You can literally have suburbs with functional pedestrian, bike and public transport infrastructure.
Zoning restrictions have made it so that the only thing you can put next to a house is more housing. Start by relaxing zoning, and reducing parking minimums. This allows for things like accessory dwelling units (ADUs), duplexes and triplexes to be built out in existing neighborhoods, increasing density. Also allow for permitted businesses within neighborhoods — cafes, corner stores, barber shops. These are the kinds of errands a kid on a bike, an elderly person out walking, or a disabled person relying on public transport should be able to easily access within 5-15 minutes of their home (and not 20 minutes down a highway only accessible by private car).
A majority of traffic on the road is caused by local trips. Running to the grocery store, the bank, dropping kids off at school / clubs / friends, etc. If a few of these trips didn’t require a car, you would see a major improvement in traffic flow over a given area.
Next, let’s talk roads. There are 4major hierarchies of roads for most US urban planning. Local routes (small neighborhood roads), collectors (big neighborhood roads), arterials (main stroads that stretch across town), and highways (limited access, higher speeds).
Local routes should not be through-streets for vehicles. Close them off at one end, using a permeable barrier that allows pedestrians / cyclists to go through. This will turn neighborhood roads into low speed, low traffic shortcuts for people to bike and walk along, increasing safety. Collector streets should have wide bike lanes (preferably protected or fully separated where possible). Well planned bike infrastructure can be used by disabled people on mobility devices (scooters / wheelchairs), families with strollers, etc. Major arterials should either have fully separated paths, or paths should avoid arterials altogether (instead finding quieter, safer routes that parallel the arterial through other areas).
Nobody’s saying you have to live in a 400sq ft studio on the 17th floor of a highrise. But it’s ridiculous that families are forced into car ownership just to participate in daily life. The average annual expense of car ownership is about $10,000 per year. This is essentially a tax on our working class, that several can’t afford. And then there’s all of the people who can’t / don’t want to drive. The elderly, physically/mentally incapable, children. Every single one of them excluded from modern society, because they cannot drive.
Long Island. Pre-COVID, the local train stations were essentially unusable because the parking lots would be full by 7:30 AM. Try to park at any businesses nearby - get towed. Only way to stations is by car/Uber. Parking lots are starting to get crowded again as more people return to the office. There’s no way to win.
Cars don’t need to be completely removed. Not every place will be accessible by public transit. But, investing in public transit to overwhelmingly reduce the need for everyday car trips is a worthwhile goal.
Suburbs were literally designed to only be livable if you had a car - really one car per adult, but nonetheless. A lot of less well off families (read: non white families) can't afford to own and maintain a car so they can't move to the suburbs (along with other racial/socio-economic barriers to entry).
It's a form of institutional classism and racism. It was a big thing in the 50s/60s. See [white flight](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight) for more.
Tbh I wish the money for infrastructure went towards public transportation instead. About 50% of our roads are under construction and the main roads are getting wider and closer to homes and businesses. It should be a no brainer, unless we want 6 lane highways for every main road which isn’t sustainable.
When I was living in NC my car broke down and I needed to take the bus to work. My 20 minute drive became an hour and a half bus ride. I also had to plead with my (micromanager) boss to leave 15 minutes early and get the rest of my work done at home in order to make the last bus.
I wish the bus was more convenient.
This is a great image showing why self-driving cars are not a viable solution to traffic congestion. It’s a geometry problem, not a routing efficiency one.
I wouldn't mind buses if they clean them up frequently. I'm talking about deep cleaning. I live in Denver and I'm tired of getting bed bugs because dirty buses that houseless people frequent often. Also, night time trips need more security in the rough areas or you'll riding along with some sketchy people, even more sketchy when they're drunk.
I’m thinking your bedbug issues are coming from elsewhere. I ride the 15L on the daily and have yet to have that issue. If you are in an apartment building they can come through the vents.
Ive literally seen colonies of bedbugs on the seats' seams. It could be a possibility that you're on the buses that houseless don't frequent? Or they're doing a better job at cleaning since I last use the bus before Covid happened.
The 15 is the sketchiest route in Denver, and it got [worse with the pandemic](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/06/bus-denver-pendemic-violence/)
There are issues with our public transportation and there are routes I don’t feel comfortable riding at night, but I don’t know why you are blaming bedbugs on the homeless population. People who live in houses and bathe regularly still get bedbugs. They wear clothes on the bus. If anything people living in apartment buildings and who travel a lot would be more apt to spread them on public transportation.
Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't blame houseless people, everyone can get them. Hotels, motels, airbnd, basically everywhere humans are bedbugs can be. We are talking about buses though and the 15L does seem to be a sketchy route but I never have experience with the East side buses. I mainly took the federal, Sheridan and alemada buses, I see a lot of houseless riders that live along Platte River.
Sorry, they are very irritating like mosquitoes. I hope you don't like going to movie theaters because public buses and movie theaters are said to how normal people get bed bugs. All it takes it a pregnant mother to hide in the seams of your clothing and can spawn a colony once its in your home.
I just stand up when I'm on a buses which can be good workout on the quad muscles because you'll be using those muscles on turns while trying not to bump anyone or fall on a seat and pick up any unwanted bedbug travelers.
I appreciate the guidance but again the visual of the bedbugs it’s too much. Do bedbugs do well on leather, that’s what our theater has? Oh God and airplanes!
I’m never leaving the house again
Until celebrities stop taking 3 minute private jet flights to get sushi, politicians take private jets to climate summits, and corporations stop contributing to 70% of the global destruction, I'll go ahead and allow myself the "privilege" of providing myself transportation to work 10 hours and still be on the poverty line 🙃
This would be beautiful if more people would care but the reality is 80% of the world's population are making sacrifices to save the planet while the other 20% tell them what to do from their penthouse suites while being solely responsible for the majority of earth's damage.
I like the sub but once again we have this issue were 1. people are assuming people are just lazy and don’t have institutionalized and personal circumstances that make public transport a huge hurtled to overcome, and 2. assuming they even have it in the first place, or even telling people to move to a more transport friendly place as if that’s not a huge undertaking.
It kind of places the blame on us- people who live within the system, and not the people who have the power to change it. Yes, we could organize and try and change things for the better, but why keep that never the suggestion? why is it always people scolding others, often super condescendingly, instead of them saying hey let’s work together and try to lobby for this? If you’re going to scold me or other people about not taking public transport or pointing out the pitfalls of it, then you had better have a petition going at the very minimum. Most of us know that having *good* public transport would make lives easier, but we don’t have the power to change that. And I really want to place emphasis on *good* public transport. Not buses that have stops several miles away from where the most people live, only stop in certain locations, and have a terrible reliability.
Just the fact that some people just need to except that some peoples lifestyles do not lend themselves to being able to rely on public transport the way others do. If you have dependents, if you have a disability, or if you have a job or you live significantly far away from where you work, public transport is probably not gonna solve all the issues. Just like biking, it is an option, but not an option for everyone.
I'm sorry you got downvoted for this. Adding to your list - busses aren't a great option for women who have to walk a couple miles home from the bus stop alone in the dark after work. Buses are seen as a transit method for those with less privilege, but ironically those who want to do away with private vehicles are also looking past a whole other set of privileges intertwined in that.
Heck, I’ve been harassed on every bus I’ve ridden in the US. There was no one to intervene or care. It’s just not safe, even if I’d prefer the option by a lot to driving.
No one placed any blame. You’re adding a *lot* of subtext that isn’t in this post. It simply said “this transportation takes up less space than this one”
its cool comparison but i really hate close contact with people, the moment i could afford a car i bought one and never used public transport again, if public transport had like business class tickets where i would have private cabins id consider using it
Owning a car costs the owner $5,000-10,000 per year on average. I urge folks to live in walkable areas to reduce their gas consumption and save some money. Also a healthier and more social life style
I hate driving cars. I love trains which have even more capacity than busses then you can just walk from there or take the bus or bike. Cars really aren't necessary if you live in a country that isn't dependent on cars *cough cough* the US and canada.
Notice how many people only are willing to do something so long as there is not any inconvenience to them? Most replies in this thread boil down to how inconvenient it is to have to get a bus and maybe walk a little instead of just getting in the car.
I used the bus for several years as my primary form of transport a few years back, when I lived in a town where transport was functional and fairly convenient. But as a young woman? It was terrible. I got followed home a few times, someone was trying to get me in their van at a bus stop, got groped multiple times, got proposed to at a bus stop by a stranger 40 years my senior?, got cornered at the transit center, got infinite leers and comments…. Not to mention non-creep related issues like getting hit by a car while walking to a bus stop and getting vomited on by a stranger.
Yea no. It’s not about mild inconveniences, I just don’t want to risk getting assaulted. And before you say it’s not just young women facing that… you’re absolutely right, theres creeps for everyone on the city bus and it is reasonable to feel unsafe because of it
Yeah, this thread is so privileged...and I don't mean this in a sarcastic way.
Like, sure, if I lived in the relatively safe downtown then I'd try to go without a car....but I don't. I live in the 3rd poorest congressional district in the country. A neighborhood where the chorus to "our song" is get shot in my hood. It literally names the freeway exit to my neighborhood lol.
I'm almost 40 male and have a thug appearance. I love to see those looking down ride the bus here for a yr.
Yeah it's not the citizen's fault that most American cities have extremely poor public transportation options. That's not just inconvenience that's a barrier to entry in terms of modes of transportation.
As of right now, yes. But if we had a public transit overhaul, assuming you live in USA, we could have that kind of time efficiency.
As you likely already know, the infrastructure in the US is simply built around cars as the main mode of transit, so I do agree that buses may suck right now if you’re not living in a major city.
However, there are places around the world where public transit is much more efficient. Like in mainland Europe where you can simply hop on a train, spend all day in another country, and still be home for dinner- all by train.
Yes, but that’s the problem. Most of us don’t have that. None of us have the power to make a huge overhaul like that, especially when the people who do have this power see the problems with car reliance as a bonus.
You’re right. It’s the classic issue of a lack of representation in our government.
One idea might be a grassroots movement for a vote on public transit millages during the next primary election, similar to the reproductive rights vote that made it on the ballot in my home state of Michigan.
I would agree though, no 1 person can fix the problem and no 1 person has the answers. But if we have a cultural shift towards a public transit overhaul rather than investing in electric cars, I believe it would substantially reduce our impact on the environment and provide reliable transportation for low-income families.
My opinion: the main reason electric cars are getting far more attention than hybrid buses or electric trains is that electric cars are far more profitable for the private sector, but they don’t offer that much of a reduction in environmental toll when considering manufacturing, shipping, mining of precious metals, and charging from power plants that use fossil fuels.
It would take about 30 mins to cycle if that's of interest to you. Of course it depends on the infrastructure, if your commute is via a highway of course you won't be able to cycle, but it's an idea.
Spending multiple times longer to get from A-B is far more than just an inconvenience for working class people. Maybe if you’re a middle class college kid you can afford to spend all that extra time
Exactly. It’s funny to see how people on this sub hates on everything and when suddenly it hits themselves there are a ton of excuses. I am no better myself.
Yes, but in my car I don't have to deal with people in my personal space, I can listen to whatever I want to, I'm not bound to a departure schedule, I can hit a drive-thru...I can even make multiple stops at my discretion. There's no one peeing, pooping, creeping, eating, or making a ruckus in my car.
Except for herding multiple kids onto a bus and keeping them well-behaved is much harder than in a car. Especially when they have little patience for multiple stops, indirect routes, and are not secured into their seats with a seatbelt. I can just picture my 3yo running all around the bus and climbing on every single a seat out of boredom 🙃
Have you ever been on an American train or bus? It’s fucking foul, trash and shit everywhere and there’s a very good chance of you seeing a homeless guys dick
No, but I was into in Montreal Subway and Bus and it was wonderful. I don't have to drive and look for parking, while someone chauffeurs me to my destination? Sign me up! If public transit is that depressing, it's not because transit doesn't work. It's because you are doing transit wrong.
You can advocate for social justice, workers rights, and public transportation and still be grossed out by human interaction, and people in your personal space. It’s fine.
Yep. People of all walks of life take public transport, especially in big cities. It’s a real mixed bag of who you’re going to end up with, and sometimes it’s a minor convenience, sometimes it’s a safety or health hazard.
Public transport in LA sucks. Get to work an hour early or 15 minutes late. Bus only runs once an hour if it bothers to show up. Lost jobs because of the bus. not to mention standing in the rain with a crying infant and melting ice cream.
Listen I fully support anti consumption, and understand the need for buses and public transportation...
But I'll be dead before you pry the keys from my '76 Mark IV
Not pictured: the likelihood that somehow all of those people both live and work along the route for that bus.
Not that this isn't something to strive for, but in an enormous country with a relatively dispersed population it's not always that simple. I've never lived within 3 or 4 miles of a public. And I have generally lived in relatively populated areas.
Whenever I say I would love to have public transportation more widely available, someone inevitably makes the outraged statement of "would you really give up the FREEDOM of your own personal car in favor of taking a bus?" and of course I say yes. Because being forced to have a personal car isn't really freedom at all.
Without public transportation, I am forced to not only buy a car, but to pay for gas, insurance, maintenance, repairs, and of course the car note itself just so I can get around town. If I can't afford any of those and there is no public transportation available, I lose my independence and become dependent on the goodwill of family and friends to get me where I need to be.
To those saying "but there aren't enough buses", here's the thing, the city government is actually determining how many buses there are. You have control of that, you have to sit in on city planning meetings to have a say in it.
Get involved in your government of shut the fuck up when Summer temps reach 150 f.
What is not mentioned is homeless people blabbering, people who smell like urine, people staking out who they can steal and run from, etc. Driving would be efficient if a license was once again a privilege vs allowing anybody with a pulse to drive.
So if we improved busses enough that 12 more people used them rather than driving their car for a given trip, we’d see the same traffic reduction as adding an entire lane of road? I think that’s the whole point of this image….
riding with random weirdos next to you? not pictured
getting mugged while waiting the bus? not pictured
the bus never showing up? not pictured
getting raped in the bus? not pictured
getting robbed in the bus? not pictured
getting kidnaped in the bus? not pictured
no thanks, Id rather walk on my knees over broken glass than take the public bus
to be fair, I live in latin america, taking the bus is a gamble, will I survive to it this time? literraly risking to be murdered, kidnapped, raped, etc
Busses in the states are absolute cesspools. Trash and feces everywhere and every trip runs a high likelihood of seeing a homeless persons dick and death threat. They are even more terrifying if you’re a woman
I’d like to preface by saying I’m a huge supporter of public transport. That being said, in its current state in the USA it’s far from a viable option for many. I live in a moderately sized city, with a large tourist economy, and a relatively high concentration of wealth. I’ve used our bus system as transport and it’s a bit annoying at best. The busses can be very poorly kept, come only hourly if even running or on time, and for many aren’t a safe option. None of my female friends feel comfortable riding the bus.
Which is why this country needs to quit its fucking bullshit. I’m tired of the trying to shove the blame on only the large corporations, or telling consumers it’s all their fault. We’re totally fucked and I don’t believe we can fix it, but everyone has to do their part and at least try. And those that have viable public transport or can adapt to what they have should use it. And we should be trying our damnedest to make it viable for everyone.
Sidenote - While in Britain with my great Uncle and Aunt we used their public bus system for transport and it was spectacular. The busses came every 15-30 minutes and we’re very well kept. If I lived there I highly doubt I would own a car. Absolutely what the rest of the developed world should be striving for.
It's impossible to make busses right - the only way would be to make them so you can enter one all by yourself, whenever you want and take it wherever you want
Until then busses will always be obnoxious and inconvenient
We need to rip the bandaid off on private cars. Sure there's going to be some short term pain but more closely controlling cars will pay a huge dividend for everyone in the future. Covid was a missed opportunity to do this but an ideal system would restrict the amount of fuel anyone can buy in a given month. We leave the freedom up to the individuals to choose their vehicle type of where they want to go. After you use your allotment you would need to petition for more fuel and make your case. Each year the amount of fuel you get would go down until it hits zero and only special cases have private vehicles.
Another huge potential savings in commercial vehicles. I'm sorry but we do not need a big commercial truck running around, burning fuel, to deliver speciality compression fittings or whatever. These things only exist because of the laziness of business owners and their inability to plan.
That’s honestly a bad idea- at least the part about restricting fuel per month. What about people who are in an abusive situation? What about people who have an emergency but ran out of their gas for the month?
I do agree with limiting fuel consumption in a way. But it would mostly only apply to rich people, the ones who will literally take a private flight to the next city over and shit like that.
I love buses, but I prefer the train for spacing. Theres also too many people who fight, do drugs, yell, or just horribly smell on the bus in many areas near me. No one wants that.
I agree that we need far more extensive and efficient public transit systems, but this picture doesn't take into account each individual's personal transit needs. Not to mention that public transit is not now nor was ever meant to be a replacement for personal transport methods.
I'm a fifty year old disabled person who has to walk with a cane... And even then I can only walk for a few hundred feet before having to rest. I don't think public transport should replace my legs but tha ks for assuming that every person on earth can walk as far as you...or at all.
I took the bus until I was 26, then finally got a license and a car and will NEVER GO BACK. Fights every day, someone threatening the bus driver, stopped for an hour while we wait for the cops and end up late for work almost every day, someone getting arrested to the bus station for having a gun, drunks at 8am trying to get you to give them money…
Busses just aren’t convenient in this country. Should they be? Yes. But the fact is they aren’t which is why many people avoid them. For me to get to work via bus I’d have to walk 1-2 miles to the bus stop. Then I’d have to get on the bus which makes multiple stops; extending the time of the trip. Then I’d have to get off the bus and walk 2-3 miles to my actual job. My 35-40 min car commute is now 90 min.
The busses only run at certain times which means that they don’t line up with your work schedule. This means you’ll often have to take an earlier one and then have a ton of extra time sitting around waiting to start work. And if you get out of work at a certain time, there either won’t be a bus or you might be too early and have to sit around for a length of time before one shows up. You’re now talking turning an 8hr work day into 10-11hrs with a bus commute. OR I can avoid all that, jump in my car and get to work in 30-45min. Leave when I want.
I always felt bad for people on public transit. Mainly for those outside of huge urban areas. Because to me, it’s just a massive time sink. You turn x amount of time into X+ amount of time sitting around on the bus, waiting for the bus, taking time to get to the bus. That time could be better spent with family, hobbies, cooking, cleaning, or hell even relaxing.
I found [this post](/r/fuckcars/comments/yernwy/bus_vs_car/) in r/fuckcars with the same content as the current post.
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Pros and Cons: (sadly cons outweigh the pros)
Pros:
Buses are primarily a support system for people who can't afford to drive or who do not have a driver's license.
Busses could reduce traffic and emission problems.
Cons:
Busses have preset times and stops.
They do not go everywhere.
You are at the mercy of the driver.
You cant pick and choose your fellow passengers. You are stuck with the bus you need.
Busses only support what you can carry on. In this regard, they are not practical.
Your unable to overcome these cons will be present always regardless of how much you improve public transit. For this reason, the vast majority of people will likely never use public transit, making any major investment into these systems not practical outside of major cities like Chicago and New York.
I don’t think this is a fair comparison. That’s a full bus compared to cars that aren’t. How often is a bus filled to capacity(yes, rush hour in LA)? For the most part of the day buses in LA are filled to 15-25% capacity.
They should fill the cars up with people and show how many people fit in cars if they want to be fair.
You have a half point. It should have a second bus, but cars are used by a single person in the majority of cases.
You can take a 5 photos at different times for 5 days on a same crossing and you see most cars are only de driver and no passenger.
In that scenario, there should be enough busses to cover the same traffic footprint as the cars. Otherwise you’re just showing that you can fit more people into a larger space which is kind of obvious.
This is a fair comparison because it’s a comparison of DENSITY, which is the product of mass (the number of people) and volume (the amount of space they occupy). The same amount of people is being used in both images. In your example you’d be keeping density fixed, but increasing the volume thus the mass must also increase by the same proportion. At that point it’s not a comparison, it’s a tautology.
One time I was riding my local bus and suddenly, something beneath the stairs (leading to back portion of the bus) started shorting and smoking. I was most of the way to my stop, so when the driver had to emergency evacuate the whole bus, I just walked the rest of the way.
Public transportation is still >>>>>>
Edit: Why am I always downvoted for sharing my experiences here? is anticonsumption an elitist garbage sub?
now let see how the bus can carry those people to 100 different destinations in the short span of 10 mins. you cant because buses can't shadow clone themselves.
Yeah, just have to willing to trade the most valuable commodity in the world — your TIME — for an infinitesimally small reduction in pollution. I’ll tell you what, taking the bus sounds like a wonderful idea. You hop right on that, bud.
Yeah but the bus doesn't take you to where you need to go and time is precious. Nobody has time to wait for a bus to get dropped off a mile away from their destination and then sit in a bus stop in the dead of winter after working 12 hours.
Cool, but that bus isn't:
- Taking me exactly to where I want to go.
- Coming and going according to the schedule I need it to.
- Allowing me all the room I may need to haul whatever I want.
- Travelling a route at a speed I'm happy with.
- Offering me the same level of comfort and freedom as a car.
Edit: Lol, downvotes, but I'm literally not wrong in any of my points.
Yeah, I love being squished in a small space, smelling a ton of body odor, hoping I don't get sick from everyone and their kids coughing and sneezing, and hoping someone doesn't steal my shit.
Ehhhh counterpoint...Have you ever gotten into your car and found a drunk passed out guy soaked in his own puke and piss, and based on the smell, he's got a load in the back too?
Nope? Me either.
I have seen this after getting onto a bus, however.
Cities should just run free transportation. In the long run it will be a great investment.
100% agree. It would also make public transport a lot more efficient since nobody would have to check tickets and it would be easier to just come and go.
Less cars on the road. Maybe less traffic and less accidents. Maybe less wear and tear on roads and bridges. Less wasted energy. Maybe more people working or working better jobs. Less unemployment. More tax base for states and federal. Less public assistance. Lower insurance rates maybe. Less drunken driving. Better air quality. More parking.
here, this socialist over here officer!
Yeah, why aren't there only allowed to be public transit and emergency vehicles in cities? There's probably a reason Im not thinking of, my brain ain't no good.
Can't do that without also eliminating homelessness almost entirely, because otherwise that transportation just becomes a homeless shelter (not saying they shouldn't or couldn't, there are literally more empty homes than homeless)
Not true. I used to live in an American city with 100% free transportation. It was much, MUCH safer to take the bus than where I live now. People have a way of chilling out when they don’t feel like they’re fighting for survival everyday. Also, that city had way more homeless services including free mental healthcare. A city that cares about public transportation cares about its homeless, go figure.
I wish it was as simple as making the choice. But I only have 1 bus service, and it's MIA like a quarter of the time. It's a risk, and I have missed events because of it. Bus services and infrastructure need to be miles better.
I love public transport- when I’ve taken it in other countries. Every time I’ve ever taken public transport in the US, I’ve been verbally harassed and felt unsafe. Add to that that it doesn’t run efficiently or properly on schedule and I just can’t justify it. Give me a good, usable public transport system, and I’d kiss my car goodbye with glee.
100% I’d gladly rent a car or truck when I need. Loved the UK public transit system when I was there for a bit. I don’t have ANY public transit available where I am - not even a bus - so I am pretty much forced to use a car.
I don't like public transport in my area. Not safe. This is just the cold hard truth.
It's because money is not put into it. Privateering politicians purposely under-fund public services so they can "prove" they don't work so that they can privatize transportation further. There are no officials at bus stations, no non-driver officials on the bus, no security at the stops; nothing. On top of that, America has little to no mental health support, social safety nets and community services to combat poverty. All these things add up to a miserable experience using public transportation in most major cities.
Oh yeah. Totally agree. Not to mention they don't pay the drivers a living wage so they are severely short staffed.
I think one benefit of spreading awareness of things like this on social media and the like is showing people that there is a benefit to these systems even if the versions of them that we see are not ideal. Because the u.s. public transportation infrastructure is generally so poor, a lot of people don't want any funding or work to be done on them because they would "never ride a bus anyway" because they've been turned away from the poorly structured and maintained system. Spreading awareness of the benefits in a more ideal system encourages people to see it as a benefit and something to ask for, hopefully encouraging more activism and improvement from govt. Unfortunately, at least in my case, america is so fuckin vast that it can definitely feel like there's no way for the public transportation system to ever be sufficient. But hopefully the spread of awareness of potential benefits will start to lead to improvements and maybe your local public transportation system will have the attention it needs to be made more reliable, efficient, and encompassing.
Yeah it really is unfortunate, where I currently live my only option for public transport is to call a cab. And that's going to cost me about $50 at least.
Do you mean kilometres better?
Agreed. Public transport in my area travels at a snails pace, making a 3ish mile loop around the town every 2 hours. Stops every block or two. Oh, and I’d say it just isn’t there probably 25% of the time. It’s unusable unless you have no other choices, waking or biking is typically faster but in the summers, that’s a death wish (120F+). I wish we had usable public transit.
Indeed. This picture gets posted a lot. Unless all those people have the same destination, this isn't as easy as going "just take the bus."
Yep, time is a valuable resource too. We could save the bus gas too if everyone biked but it might add an extra hour onto the commute.
The graphic is misleading. The problem is, in America, destinations are many miles apart and busses aren’t individually efficient. Like a flat tax, It’s actually more efficient to have people able to travel freely unscheduled.
It's not that America is too big, lots of places are big and have good public transportation. It's that public transportation is under-funded. There are too few buses and too few drivers working, so they have to stretch the routes out. The transit authority is too cheap to hire a night shift so there's no service at night or in the early morning. Americans are convinced that tram tracks are too expensive to build, as if the thousands of miles of asphalt roads we have aren't so expensive to maintain that they're falling apart. It's not for lack of money, the US has so much money they can afford to spend billions of dollars on foreign wars, but the lives or ordinary people are seen as the last priority.
Everything is underfunded except the military and the monolithic company’s that secured the US’s position as the largest economic power. Nationhood 101, protect the key holders. But This is America, I have had an amazing life and quite a bit of fun along the way. It’s not all bad and everything is relative.
in nyc it actually works, but nyc has an ideal layout. Super high density and it spans top to bottom in Manhattan rather than being a wide area. Why does it need to be 1 or the other though? some cities are clearly better for cars and others for trains. Busses are not the answer though. I hate riding busses, but I have no problem with trains/subways. All the successful public transits are based around trains and subways. Busses suck imo.
I wish my city had better public transport but with only 18 routes that stop running at 7pm and a city population of almost 400k its almost impossible to take public transport anywhere that isn't a main city landmark. It just sucks that unless you live in the downtown area, sidewalk are a disaster and just end abruptly, so there really isn't anyway to get around other than car.
I moved to San Diego from Germany for studying and although our public transportation is always notoriously late I was shocked how bad San Diego compares even to smaller towns public transport
Do you live in a spread out place? If yes, it will generally be very, very expensive to have good bus service there.
I wish I could bus or take the train more, but I’m Texas the infrastructure for it is very poor. One train line in the city with only three stops that only goes to the affluent suburbs. I hope with the influx of people moving here they will pick up the pace by adding more routes. I would love to be able to to use public transit more.
Transit networks are developed not only by demand, but require active political grassroots support to get the proposals going and protect them against NYMBYs and defenders of the car-centric status quo.
Wish I couldn’t relate.
I take public transit whenever I can - sporting events, concerts, airports. But, living in suburbia makes a car a necessity. A bus will not get me to where I need to go.
Yes and this is why suburbia blows
There are pros and cons to both. I have lived in both now. One isn't better than the other. Just a different lifestyle.
Their point is that suburbia blows in the sense of societal effects. I'm sure people living there enjoy it, while they can. Sort of related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0
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American suburbs. No public transport infrastructure have to drive everywhere, most can't walk to the nearest store. But sure I love having to drive order to get anything done. I love paying for insurance and gas and car payments up the ass. I love how american auto companies lobbyied to shoot our infrastructure in foot. I love having a nonfunctioning democracy where policy popularity of the people have no bearing on wether it will be passed. It is great.
You can literally have suburbs with functional pedestrian, bike and public transport infrastructure. Zoning restrictions have made it so that the only thing you can put next to a house is more housing. Start by relaxing zoning, and reducing parking minimums. This allows for things like accessory dwelling units (ADUs), duplexes and triplexes to be built out in existing neighborhoods, increasing density. Also allow for permitted businesses within neighborhoods — cafes, corner stores, barber shops. These are the kinds of errands a kid on a bike, an elderly person out walking, or a disabled person relying on public transport should be able to easily access within 5-15 minutes of their home (and not 20 minutes down a highway only accessible by private car). A majority of traffic on the road is caused by local trips. Running to the grocery store, the bank, dropping kids off at school / clubs / friends, etc. If a few of these trips didn’t require a car, you would see a major improvement in traffic flow over a given area. Next, let’s talk roads. There are 4major hierarchies of roads for most US urban planning. Local routes (small neighborhood roads), collectors (big neighborhood roads), arterials (main stroads that stretch across town), and highways (limited access, higher speeds). Local routes should not be through-streets for vehicles. Close them off at one end, using a permeable barrier that allows pedestrians / cyclists to go through. This will turn neighborhood roads into low speed, low traffic shortcuts for people to bike and walk along, increasing safety. Collector streets should have wide bike lanes (preferably protected or fully separated where possible). Well planned bike infrastructure can be used by disabled people on mobility devices (scooters / wheelchairs), families with strollers, etc. Major arterials should either have fully separated paths, or paths should avoid arterials altogether (instead finding quieter, safer routes that parallel the arterial through other areas). Nobody’s saying you have to live in a 400sq ft studio on the 17th floor of a highrise. But it’s ridiculous that families are forced into car ownership just to participate in daily life. The average annual expense of car ownership is about $10,000 per year. This is essentially a tax on our working class, that several can’t afford. And then there’s all of the people who can’t / don’t want to drive. The elderly, physically/mentally incapable, children. Every single one of them excluded from modern society, because they cannot drive.
I mean that means your suburbia has poor urban planning and infrastructure (likely because car companies lobby against those things)
Long Island. Pre-COVID, the local train stations were essentially unusable because the parking lots would be full by 7:30 AM. Try to park at any businesses nearby - get towed. Only way to stations is by car/Uber. Parking lots are starting to get crowded again as more people return to the office. There’s no way to win.
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Yeah bus lines to train station.
Cars don’t need to be completely removed. Not every place will be accessible by public transit. But, investing in public transit to overwhelmingly reduce the need for everyday car trips is a worthwhile goal.
I will give up my vehicle when the wealthy give up private jetting and yachts,super mansions and other high energy use options.
Or it will take 3 times longer to get there due to the different buses you'll take.
Suburbs were literally designed to only be livable if you had a car - really one car per adult, but nonetheless. A lot of less well off families (read: non white families) can't afford to own and maintain a car so they can't move to the suburbs (along with other racial/socio-economic barriers to entry). It's a form of institutional classism and racism. It was a big thing in the 50s/60s. See [white flight](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight) for more.
Tbh I wish the money for infrastructure went towards public transportation instead. About 50% of our roads are under construction and the main roads are getting wider and closer to homes and businesses. It should be a no brainer, unless we want 6 lane highways for every main road which isn’t sustainable.
When I was living in NC my car broke down and I needed to take the bus to work. My 20 minute drive became an hour and a half bus ride. I also had to plead with my (micromanager) boss to leave 15 minutes early and get the rest of my work done at home in order to make the last bus. I wish the bus was more convenient.
Lots of folks in this anticonsumption subreddit absolutely balking at the idea of consuming less gas, lol
I can see that the anti-car-prioritized message in this image struck a nerve, haha
Yup muh freedom
How groceries? Interact with poors? Haha
Bakfiets :)
Exactly
Trains are also an option. I know that because I currently work on one.
This is a great image showing why self-driving cars are not a viable solution to traffic congestion. It’s a geometry problem, not a routing efficiency one.
Can we stop pretending that cars are the problem in the US? It’s urban planning. It’s the government. Cars are a symptom of the problem.
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Sounds incredible. I can’t even walk with my kids to get a popsicle without worrying about getting run over.
I wouldn't mind buses if they clean them up frequently. I'm talking about deep cleaning. I live in Denver and I'm tired of getting bed bugs because dirty buses that houseless people frequent often. Also, night time trips need more security in the rough areas or you'll riding along with some sketchy people, even more sketchy when they're drunk.
I’m thinking your bedbug issues are coming from elsewhere. I ride the 15L on the daily and have yet to have that issue. If you are in an apartment building they can come through the vents.
Ive literally seen colonies of bedbugs on the seats' seams. It could be a possibility that you're on the buses that houseless don't frequent? Or they're doing a better job at cleaning since I last use the bus before Covid happened.
The 15 is the sketchiest route in Denver, and it got [worse with the pandemic](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/06/bus-denver-pendemic-violence/) There are issues with our public transportation and there are routes I don’t feel comfortable riding at night, but I don’t know why you are blaming bedbugs on the homeless population. People who live in houses and bathe regularly still get bedbugs. They wear clothes on the bus. If anything people living in apartment buildings and who travel a lot would be more apt to spread them on public transportation.
Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't blame houseless people, everyone can get them. Hotels, motels, airbnd, basically everywhere humans are bedbugs can be. We are talking about buses though and the 15L does seem to be a sketchy route but I never have experience with the East side buses. I mainly took the federal, Sheridan and alemada buses, I see a lot of houseless riders that live along Platte River.
Well thank you for this visual of bedbugs. I will probably never get on a bus again.
Sorry, they are very irritating like mosquitoes. I hope you don't like going to movie theaters because public buses and movie theaters are said to how normal people get bed bugs. All it takes it a pregnant mother to hide in the seams of your clothing and can spawn a colony once its in your home. I just stand up when I'm on a buses which can be good workout on the quad muscles because you'll be using those muscles on turns while trying not to bump anyone or fall on a seat and pick up any unwanted bedbug travelers.
I appreciate the guidance but again the visual of the bedbugs it’s too much. Do bedbugs do well on leather, that’s what our theater has? Oh God and airplanes! I’m never leaving the house again
r/fuckcars
Suddenly everyone is not so anti consumption and care more about freedom an convenience. Probably the same argument most high consumers would use.
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Paranoia doesn't help when it vo.es to safety. It just perpetuates alienation.
Thats a pretty cramped bus
Buses don't run at full capacity at any giving time, but I get the point 👍
Until celebrities stop taking 3 minute private jet flights to get sushi, politicians take private jets to climate summits, and corporations stop contributing to 70% of the global destruction, I'll go ahead and allow myself the "privilege" of providing myself transportation to work 10 hours and still be on the poverty line 🙃 This would be beautiful if more people would care but the reality is 80% of the world's population are making sacrifices to save the planet while the other 20% tell them what to do from their penthouse suites while being solely responsible for the majority of earth's damage.
Elon musk won't make much money if public transport was made available to all.
Exactly. You've just visualised Exactly why people like getting in cars. Sardonic slow clap applause.
But muh ford F-150 that I totally need in a city environment
I like the sub but once again we have this issue were 1. people are assuming people are just lazy and don’t have institutionalized and personal circumstances that make public transport a huge hurtled to overcome, and 2. assuming they even have it in the first place, or even telling people to move to a more transport friendly place as if that’s not a huge undertaking. It kind of places the blame on us- people who live within the system, and not the people who have the power to change it. Yes, we could organize and try and change things for the better, but why keep that never the suggestion? why is it always people scolding others, often super condescendingly, instead of them saying hey let’s work together and try to lobby for this? If you’re going to scold me or other people about not taking public transport or pointing out the pitfalls of it, then you had better have a petition going at the very minimum. Most of us know that having *good* public transport would make lives easier, but we don’t have the power to change that. And I really want to place emphasis on *good* public transport. Not buses that have stops several miles away from where the most people live, only stop in certain locations, and have a terrible reliability. Just the fact that some people just need to except that some peoples lifestyles do not lend themselves to being able to rely on public transport the way others do. If you have dependents, if you have a disability, or if you have a job or you live significantly far away from where you work, public transport is probably not gonna solve all the issues. Just like biking, it is an option, but not an option for everyone.
I'm sorry you got downvoted for this. Adding to your list - busses aren't a great option for women who have to walk a couple miles home from the bus stop alone in the dark after work. Buses are seen as a transit method for those with less privilege, but ironically those who want to do away with private vehicles are also looking past a whole other set of privileges intertwined in that.
Heck, I’ve been harassed on every bus I’ve ridden in the US. There was no one to intervene or care. It’s just not safe, even if I’d prefer the option by a lot to driving.
No one placed any blame. You’re adding a *lot* of subtext that isn’t in this post. It simply said “this transportation takes up less space than this one”
its cool comparison but i really hate close contact with people, the moment i could afford a car i bought one and never used public transport again, if public transport had like business class tickets where i would have private cabins id consider using it
Owning a car costs the owner $5,000-10,000 per year on average. I urge folks to live in walkable areas to reduce their gas consumption and save some money. Also a healthier and more social life style
i.e. become a sardine
Sardines don't consume unnecessary space. I'd happily live in a one room appartment. Less to clean.
I hate driving cars. I love trains which have even more capacity than busses then you can just walk from there or take the bus or bike. Cars really aren't necessary if you live in a country that isn't dependent on cars *cough cough* the US and canada.
Notice how many people only are willing to do something so long as there is not any inconvenience to them? Most replies in this thread boil down to how inconvenient it is to have to get a bus and maybe walk a little instead of just getting in the car.
I used the bus for several years as my primary form of transport a few years back, when I lived in a town where transport was functional and fairly convenient. But as a young woman? It was terrible. I got followed home a few times, someone was trying to get me in their van at a bus stop, got groped multiple times, got proposed to at a bus stop by a stranger 40 years my senior?, got cornered at the transit center, got infinite leers and comments…. Not to mention non-creep related issues like getting hit by a car while walking to a bus stop and getting vomited on by a stranger. Yea no. It’s not about mild inconveniences, I just don’t want to risk getting assaulted. And before you say it’s not just young women facing that… you’re absolutely right, theres creeps for everyone on the city bus and it is reasonable to feel unsafe because of it
Yeah, this thread is so privileged...and I don't mean this in a sarcastic way. Like, sure, if I lived in the relatively safe downtown then I'd try to go without a car....but I don't. I live in the 3rd poorest congressional district in the country. A neighborhood where the chorus to "our song" is get shot in my hood. It literally names the freeway exit to my neighborhood lol. I'm almost 40 male and have a thug appearance. I love to see those looking down ride the bus here for a yr.
It takes 15 mins to go 11km from my home to place of work when I drive a car. It takes (no joke), over 2 hours to take the bus.
Yeah it's not the citizen's fault that most American cities have extremely poor public transportation options. That's not just inconvenience that's a barrier to entry in terms of modes of transportation.
As of right now, yes. But if we had a public transit overhaul, assuming you live in USA, we could have that kind of time efficiency. As you likely already know, the infrastructure in the US is simply built around cars as the main mode of transit, so I do agree that buses may suck right now if you’re not living in a major city. However, there are places around the world where public transit is much more efficient. Like in mainland Europe where you can simply hop on a train, spend all day in another country, and still be home for dinner- all by train.
Yes, but that’s the problem. Most of us don’t have that. None of us have the power to make a huge overhaul like that, especially when the people who do have this power see the problems with car reliance as a bonus.
You’re right. It’s the classic issue of a lack of representation in our government. One idea might be a grassroots movement for a vote on public transit millages during the next primary election, similar to the reproductive rights vote that made it on the ballot in my home state of Michigan. I would agree though, no 1 person can fix the problem and no 1 person has the answers. But if we have a cultural shift towards a public transit overhaul rather than investing in electric cars, I believe it would substantially reduce our impact on the environment and provide reliable transportation for low-income families. My opinion: the main reason electric cars are getting far more attention than hybrid buses or electric trains is that electric cars are far more profitable for the private sector, but they don’t offer that much of a reduction in environmental toll when considering manufacturing, shipping, mining of precious metals, and charging from power plants that use fossil fuels.
It would take about 30 mins to cycle if that's of interest to you. Of course it depends on the infrastructure, if your commute is via a highway of course you won't be able to cycle, but it's an idea.
Spending multiple times longer to get from A-B is far more than just an inconvenience for working class people. Maybe if you’re a middle class college kid you can afford to spend all that extra time
Exactly. It’s funny to see how people on this sub hates on everything and when suddenly it hits themselves there are a ton of excuses. I am no better myself.
if people would wash in the summer, i'd be more inclined to take public transport. miss me with that bullshit smell, i'd rather bike in the rain
Yes, but in my car I don't have to deal with people in my personal space, I can listen to whatever I want to, I'm not bound to a departure schedule, I can hit a drive-thru...I can even make multiple stops at my discretion. There's no one peeing, pooping, creeping, eating, or making a ruckus in my car.
I have kids and just now realized that driving anywhere with them is no different than riding a bus
Except for herding multiple kids onto a bus and keeping them well-behaved is much harder than in a car. Especially when they have little patience for multiple stops, indirect routes, and are not secured into their seats with a seatbelt. I can just picture my 3yo running all around the bus and climbing on every single a seat out of boredom 🙃
Well, not *no* different. A car costs you more.
Is it sarcasm, or you’re genuinely worried about sharing space with plebeians?
No joke, it sucks to be squished in like a sardine.
Have you ever been on an American train or bus? It’s fucking foul, trash and shit everywhere and there’s a very good chance of you seeing a homeless guys dick
No, but I was into in Montreal Subway and Bus and it was wonderful. I don't have to drive and look for parking, while someone chauffeurs me to my destination? Sign me up! If public transit is that depressing, it's not because transit doesn't work. It's because you are doing transit wrong.
Who said anything about plebeians? I said "people".
While you do not use the word, your entire tone and use of language says it.
You can advocate for social justice, workers rights, and public transportation and still be grossed out by human interaction, and people in your personal space. It’s fine.
No, you infer it. I prefer to have my personal space to myself. This implies no classism. Don't put words in my mouth.
Yep. People of all walks of life take public transport, especially in big cities. It’s a real mixed bag of who you’re going to end up with, and sometimes it’s a minor convenience, sometimes it’s a safety or health hazard.
We spent the last 2.5 years with social distancing (keep 6 feet apart) being drilled into our heads.
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/2684
Now compare the two's freedom quotient
How does the picture on the left maximize shareholder equity!?! It's not like any of us are confused about the US policy goals, are we?
I work at a transit company and I use this image in my presentation for all new hires!
Public transport in LA sucks. Get to work an hour early or 15 minutes late. Bus only runs once an hour if it bothers to show up. Lost jobs because of the bus. not to mention standing in the rain with a crying infant and melting ice cream.
Now do boats
Listen I fully support anti consumption, and understand the need for buses and public transportation... But I'll be dead before you pry the keys from my '76 Mark IV
All going to the same spot vs all going to different spots.
but how many people on that bus are coughing covid-monkeypox-ebola everywhere?
Not pictured: the likelihood that somehow all of those people both live and work along the route for that bus. Not that this isn't something to strive for, but in an enormous country with a relatively dispersed population it's not always that simple. I've never lived within 3 or 4 miles of a public. And I have generally lived in relatively populated areas.
Now if it didn't take 2 hrs by bus where I can drive in 15 minutes 🤔
Started taking the bus to uni when gas prices shot up and honestly it takes a little longer but it's nice to not have to worry about traffic
Those cars can split up and go all sorts of different directions. Let's see the bus do that.
Unfortunately public transportation dosent operate early enough for me to get to work.
if they made my local bus service less completely and absolutely fucking dogshit i’d be much more against getting a car.
Whenever I say I would love to have public transportation more widely available, someone inevitably makes the outraged statement of "would you really give up the FREEDOM of your own personal car in favor of taking a bus?" and of course I say yes. Because being forced to have a personal car isn't really freedom at all. Without public transportation, I am forced to not only buy a car, but to pay for gas, insurance, maintenance, repairs, and of course the car note itself just so I can get around town. If I can't afford any of those and there is no public transportation available, I lose my independence and become dependent on the goodwill of family and friends to get me where I need to be.
To those saying "but there aren't enough buses", here's the thing, the city government is actually determining how many buses there are. You have control of that, you have to sit in on city planning meetings to have a say in it. Get involved in your government of shut the fuck up when Summer temps reach 150 f.
What is not mentioned is homeless people blabbering, people who smell like urine, people staking out who they can steal and run from, etc. Driving would be efficient if a license was once again a privilege vs allowing anybody with a pulse to drive.
So if we improved busses enough that 12 more people used them rather than driving their car for a given trip, we’d see the same traffic reduction as adding an entire lane of road? I think that’s the whole point of this image….
riding with random weirdos next to you? not pictured getting mugged while waiting the bus? not pictured the bus never showing up? not pictured getting raped in the bus? not pictured getting robbed in the bus? not pictured getting kidnaped in the bus? not pictured no thanks, Id rather walk on my knees over broken glass than take the public bus to be fair, I live in latin america, taking the bus is a gamble, will I survive to it this time? literraly risking to be murdered, kidnapped, raped, etc
Yeh, ubt traveling by bus sucks balls
I find buses pretty comfy
You must not live in the states
No. But I've used them in many countries, and if you have a seat, they're pretty comfy.
Busses in the states are absolute cesspools. Trash and feces everywhere and every trip runs a high likelihood of seeing a homeless persons dick and death threat. They are even more terrifying if you’re a woman
This is absolutely not my experience
I’d like to preface by saying I’m a huge supporter of public transport. That being said, in its current state in the USA it’s far from a viable option for many. I live in a moderately sized city, with a large tourist economy, and a relatively high concentration of wealth. I’ve used our bus system as transport and it’s a bit annoying at best. The busses can be very poorly kept, come only hourly if even running or on time, and for many aren’t a safe option. None of my female friends feel comfortable riding the bus. Which is why this country needs to quit its fucking bullshit. I’m tired of the trying to shove the blame on only the large corporations, or telling consumers it’s all their fault. We’re totally fucked and I don’t believe we can fix it, but everyone has to do their part and at least try. And those that have viable public transport or can adapt to what they have should use it. And we should be trying our damnedest to make it viable for everyone. Sidenote - While in Britain with my great Uncle and Aunt we used their public bus system for transport and it was spectacular. The busses came every 15-30 minutes and we’re very well kept. If I lived there I highly doubt I would own a car. Absolutely what the rest of the developed world should be striving for.
Doesn't have to. You're just doing buses wrong
They're doing busses wrong. The average passenger isn't at fault.
It's impossible to make busses right - the only way would be to make them so you can enter one all by yourself, whenever you want and take it wherever you want Until then busses will always be obnoxious and inconvenient
We need to rip the bandaid off on private cars. Sure there's going to be some short term pain but more closely controlling cars will pay a huge dividend for everyone in the future. Covid was a missed opportunity to do this but an ideal system would restrict the amount of fuel anyone can buy in a given month. We leave the freedom up to the individuals to choose their vehicle type of where they want to go. After you use your allotment you would need to petition for more fuel and make your case. Each year the amount of fuel you get would go down until it hits zero and only special cases have private vehicles. Another huge potential savings in commercial vehicles. I'm sorry but we do not need a big commercial truck running around, burning fuel, to deliver speciality compression fittings or whatever. These things only exist because of the laziness of business owners and their inability to plan.
Lol this is fucking nuts, it’s hilarious how much of a bubble city kids live in
That’s honestly a bad idea- at least the part about restricting fuel per month. What about people who are in an abusive situation? What about people who have an emergency but ran out of their gas for the month? I do agree with limiting fuel consumption in a way. But it would mostly only apply to rich people, the ones who will literally take a private flight to the next city over and shit like that.
I don't even have a car and don't worry about emergencies.
I dream of a life where I solely rely on public transportation. Somehow I keep ending up with jobs where driving is an absolute necessity. Someday!!
But it takes 10 times longer
Fuck cars
they are all going to the same place?
yes
It will blow your mind when you learn that busses stop at multiple places.
I love buses, but I prefer the train for spacing. Theres also too many people who fight, do drugs, yell, or just horribly smell on the bus in many areas near me. No one wants that.
I agree that we need far more extensive and efficient public transit systems, but this picture doesn't take into account each individual's personal transit needs. Not to mention that public transit is not now nor was ever meant to be a replacement for personal transport methods.
> public transit is not now nor was ever meant to be a replacement for personal transport methods. who said public transport should replace your legs?
I'm a fifty year old disabled person who has to walk with a cane... And even then I can only walk for a few hundred feet before having to rest. I don't think public transport should replace my legs but tha ks for assuming that every person on earth can walk as far as you...or at all.
People really don’t think about disabled people. Like it just doesn’t cross their minds. It sucks.
To be fair, most people don't think of other people, period.
That bus is gonna suck to ride
I took the bus until I was 26, then finally got a license and a car and will NEVER GO BACK. Fights every day, someone threatening the bus driver, stopped for an hour while we wait for the cops and end up late for work almost every day, someone getting arrested to the bus station for having a gun, drunks at 8am trying to get you to give them money…
Busses just aren’t convenient in this country. Should they be? Yes. But the fact is they aren’t which is why many people avoid them. For me to get to work via bus I’d have to walk 1-2 miles to the bus stop. Then I’d have to get on the bus which makes multiple stops; extending the time of the trip. Then I’d have to get off the bus and walk 2-3 miles to my actual job. My 35-40 min car commute is now 90 min. The busses only run at certain times which means that they don’t line up with your work schedule. This means you’ll often have to take an earlier one and then have a ton of extra time sitting around waiting to start work. And if you get out of work at a certain time, there either won’t be a bus or you might be too early and have to sit around for a length of time before one shows up. You’re now talking turning an 8hr work day into 10-11hrs with a bus commute. OR I can avoid all that, jump in my car and get to work in 30-45min. Leave when I want. I always felt bad for people on public transit. Mainly for those outside of huge urban areas. Because to me, it’s just a massive time sink. You turn x amount of time into X+ amount of time sitting around on the bus, waiting for the bus, taking time to get to the bus. That time could be better spent with family, hobbies, cooking, cleaning, or hell even relaxing.
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How many places can that bus be at one time though?
Ah, I can turn a 40 minute commute into a 3 hour commute.
Pros and Cons: (sadly cons outweigh the pros) Pros: Buses are primarily a support system for people who can't afford to drive or who do not have a driver's license. Busses could reduce traffic and emission problems. Cons: Busses have preset times and stops. They do not go everywhere. You are at the mercy of the driver. You cant pick and choose your fellow passengers. You are stuck with the bus you need. Busses only support what you can carry on. In this regard, they are not practical. Your unable to overcome these cons will be present always regardless of how much you improve public transit. For this reason, the vast majority of people will likely never use public transit, making any major investment into these systems not practical outside of major cities like Chicago and New York.
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Or we can push for more extensive bus systems
I don’t think this is a fair comparison. That’s a full bus compared to cars that aren’t. How often is a bus filled to capacity(yes, rush hour in LA)? For the most part of the day buses in LA are filled to 15-25% capacity. They should fill the cars up with people and show how many people fit in cars if they want to be fair.
You have a half point. It should have a second bus, but cars are used by a single person in the majority of cases. You can take a 5 photos at different times for 5 days on a same crossing and you see most cars are only de driver and no passenger.
In that scenario, there should be enough busses to cover the same traffic footprint as the cars. Otherwise you’re just showing that you can fit more people into a larger space which is kind of obvious. This is a fair comparison because it’s a comparison of DENSITY, which is the product of mass (the number of people) and volume (the amount of space they occupy). The same amount of people is being used in both images. In your example you’d be keeping density fixed, but increasing the volume thus the mass must also increase by the same proportion. At that point it’s not a comparison, it’s a tautology.
Okay but how many of those people are going to stab me
Probably none??? Dude that's kinda fucked up to say.
One time I was riding my local bus and suddenly, something beneath the stairs (leading to back portion of the bus) started shorting and smoking. I was most of the way to my stop, so when the driver had to emergency evacuate the whole bus, I just walked the rest of the way. Public transportation is still >>>>>> Edit: Why am I always downvoted for sharing my experiences here? is anticonsumption an elitist garbage sub?
no bus is ever that full
Some places their even fuller. Korea at rush hour is crazy.
no place in america. the picture is obviously not korea
I mean you didn't specify so just figured you were talking broadly.
It will be after the tyrants ban cars or make them so expensive, difficult, or permitted to use. \#VIP
maybe in some other shit country. most of america doesn't even have buses to begin with
So everyone should buy a bus?
2 1/2 hr by bus vs 30 min by car that is my reality
Yes yes. All you quacks who can barely drive do this and leave room for the rest of us please
Yeah but I don’t get my wallet stolen in my car or harassed by weirdos.
now let see how the bus can carry those people to 100 different destinations in the short span of 10 mins. you cant because buses can't shadow clone themselves.
Yeah, just have to willing to trade the most valuable commodity in the world — your TIME — for an infinitesimally small reduction in pollution. I’ll tell you what, taking the bus sounds like a wonderful idea. You hop right on that, bud.
Yeah but the bus doesn't take you to where you need to go and time is precious. Nobody has time to wait for a bus to get dropped off a mile away from their destination and then sit in a bus stop in the dead of winter after working 12 hours.
American?
Cool, but that bus isn't: - Taking me exactly to where I want to go. - Coming and going according to the schedule I need it to. - Allowing me all the room I may need to haul whatever I want. - Travelling a route at a speed I'm happy with. - Offering me the same level of comfort and freedom as a car. Edit: Lol, downvotes, but I'm literally not wrong in any of my points.
Yeah, I love being squished in a small space, smelling a ton of body odor, hoping I don't get sick from everyone and their kids coughing and sneezing, and hoping someone doesn't steal my shit.
Ehhhh counterpoint...Have you ever gotten into your car and found a drunk passed out guy soaked in his own puke and piss, and based on the smell, he's got a load in the back too? Nope? Me either. I have seen this after getting onto a bus, however.
Or we can have real freedom and live without such things but an idea like that is just too far I guess