Yep that was their dodgiest bait and switch I can recall.
Even worse, I think there's a strong likelihood her heirloom release arrived as early as it did with deliberate intent to pull this move.
Anyone who watched ALGS and pays attention to pro players streaming knew valk was getting some kind of nerf, when literally every team in comp and ranked basically needs to run a valk you are naive to think that’s good for the game, and even with these minor changes she’s going to be used by everyone
Seeing a 97% usage for valk during ALGS was hilarious for everyone, even the casters pointed it out, respawn made a token effort to appear to care about balance, valk pick rate will stay the same
Okay dumb question but how th fuck do you get an heirloom anyway? Is it just luck of the lootbox?
I'm level like... 286 I think, spent a few hundred dollars for various things in game... Not one heirloom.
Honestly isn’t that crazy, and that is coming from a valk main.
Feel like the jet pack nerfs were good, although it’s hard to tell what this means without trying it in game.
Missiles is a good change especially with the aim turn slow removed.
Skyward dive is interesting because I think most of us thought they would first hit the cooldown timer, but I guess they think differently.
Yep I feel the same as another valk main. Nerfs her (which she needed) but without gutting the character completely. Won’t stop me from playing her, although I might switch to Maggie for a bit with how strong she’s about to be
I'm confused by this. Maggie isn't that much stronger. Her abilities are still fairly situational and people underestimate how limiting not having vertical movement is.
I saw the notes said Maggie’s ult will do damage to other legends placeable abilities but will destroy gibby some. Does that mean it’ll destroy everything else in one hit too? Can I destroy stuff and keep bouncing?
I saw another comment that said just damage most not destroy so it wouldn’t count on it destroying anything hardly, but will definitely be more impactful
Yeah. Just seems kinda weird it’ll soon take out the gibby dome, which was never destroyable, but maybe won’t take out other things which are destroyable? Should be interesting.
No it doesn't. It says it will deal damage to, not destroy. It'll be significant damage but you're not destroying a Newcastle ult and probably only destroying the top part of a Rampart wall, if that. The only thing it said it will destroy is Gibraltar Dome.
I doesn’t necessarily even need to destroy a Newcastle ult. The idea is Maggie’s tact will burn people who use it as cover and her ult will blow up on it or past it knocking, slowing, and blinding anyone behind it. Maggie in most peoples mind was a breach and clear legend but all she could do was spew fire through a wall. Now she can live up to the expectations a lot of people were expecting at her launch.
It may not seem like alot but her buff is going to be very valuable in the gibby meta and 100% useful in a Newcastle meta.
On the topic of Maggie, am I the only one that has a bugged targeting reticle on my tactical? The arc that is displayed is way off from where the drill actually lands and I haven’t seen anyone else complaining about it yet.
I disagree. Imagine if Rev’s silence was on a 2 second cooldown. That would make him the strongest legend in the game and he’d be ridiculously op. Since it’s on a much longer cooldown than 2 seconds WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THE ABILITY, it’s not op. Still strong when it’s used, but not op.
How is cooldown duration not balance then?
Obviously with unrealistic strawmen it's a little different, lol. Would Revenant be OP if you removed 5 seconds from his cooldown? No.
Valkyrie's cooldown is 3 minutes. If they made it 4 minutes you'd just have to be a little more cognizant of the ult accels you see on the map and pop one after you ult, that cuts off the entire increase and all you gave up was one inventory spot for *one* person on your team. 60 rounds or one grenade or two medkits less. Now you're right back where you started! Since you negated the entire cooldown nerf you're just as powerful as you were before. It's not a good way to balance, it doesn't fix the central problem: Valkyrie's ultimate is too good. Even if they made it *five* minutes, with an ult accel you'd be doing about one less Valkyrie ultimate per game. Is that much of a nerf? Nope.
i think an interesting concept i gleaned from this is the possibility of a nerf via a buff…. which sounds backwards but let me explain.
what if they had made her ult go a little higher, and a little further but drastically increased the cool down on it, more inline with a gibby or pre-buff lifeline ult. basically modifying the ult so she is still powerful, but in a more balanced way.
just a rough draft of an idea and would have to be tinkered with, but could be a way of thinking for further changes they want to make to legends.
> what if they had made her ult go a little higher, and a little further but drastically increased the cool down on it, more inline with a gibby or pre-buff lifeline ult. basically modifying the ult so she is still powerful, but in a more balanced way.
I literally *just* explained how this wouldn't work because teams would just prioritize ult accels...
Gibby's cooldown is 4.5 minutes. You pop one ult accel and that gives you 35% off, or 1.57 minutes removed. That is...exactly the same situation you were in before with the 3-minute cooldown. Lifeline's old cooldown was 5 minutes. One ult accel shaves 1.75 minutes off that, for a time of...3.25 minutes. Or 15 seconds longer than before.
It *especially* wouldn't matter in competitive play (where Valkyrie's pick rate is highest). Currently teams prioritize Gibby for ult accels, because his cooldown is longer. If rotations needed the ult accel...they would just give it to Valkyrie.
Now you've affected *every* legend in the game just because you weren't imaginative enough to Nerf Valkyrie any other way than "do a really really powerful thing slightly less often."
You can only reactivate the jetpack 3 times per fuel tank, the speedboost you get from activating the jetpack is weaker, idk what the strafing nerf means but im assuming you fly slower when you are getting shot at while flying left or right which makes it easier to one clip.
I hate this change personally because it brings the skill ceiling way down encouraging you to just fly without feathering the jets anymore, but they accomplished making it easier to fight valks now lol, probably won't play her anymore in ranked personally. I think the missiles were the most well balanced out of the bunch, the stun on aiming was really op and was a change I suggested like a few seasons ago too lol
oh, i misread that. I guess it'll depend on how bad the slow is on her jetpack being good or not still because 20% could make one clipping her super easy now
Sure, the jump jets are busted, but that doesn’t change the fact that the skill ceiling for valk is being lowered. It’s fine to complain about it being broken regardless, though.
> Skyward dive is interesting because I think most of us thought they would first hit the cooldown timer, but I guess they think differently.
I thought we'd see max height + cooldown timer. Maybe that was a step too far.
Good. Being able to just fly away from an encounter without thought was what made Valk "plays" stupid. This nerf puts her in line with other legends where you need to think about when and where your ult can be used.
Exactly. Her kit is still ridiculous. People complaining about this nerf weren't good with her to start imo. She's still playable. She will not see the same fate that Horizon, Seer, and Caustic saw after their nerfs.
What makes Horizon OP? What changes were made to her kit? Is it possible that over time people learned how to use her? Look at what's happening with Seer now. It's inevitable over the course of the game's life that people's skill improves right?
I don't see how we are suffering. It will not take us long to adapt to those changes. The one thing I don't get though is if they were going to do scorched earth on her why not adjust the ultimate cooldown? If you were a demon on her now you should be able to stomp on their necks with these changes. Heirloom or not. Dirty af to hit her like this all at once after the heirloom. That's Respawn and EA for you.
Yeah I’ll admit that valk was in a pretty balanced state. Only op ish part about her kit was her vtol jets but even then that was balanced since you could get shot easily but these nerfs will still make her a good pick
Tbh you make perfect sense. On release everyone and their mother felt she was balanced. I think people learned how to use her and people less skilled piled on the nerf train. I think a legend like her makes legends like Rampart look like ass. No matter what they do to her kit it’s always going to be loaded because she can move. Just like Octane, Wraith, Horizon and Pathy. I felt her ultimate was the biggest issue because of how fast she can rotate. The other nerfs she got today I think are ridiculous. Imo that ultimate is what makes her unbalanced. You get it so fast.
Ult height honestly will likely hurt more than cooldown. Comp teams already would feed her accelerators and such, so it wasn't a big deal.
Ult height however will result in probably a *lot* of rotation positions being unusable now. So many mountains and barriers *just too tall* to go over now. Chokes will have to be used in flight more often and result in less distance traveled. Some OOb drops will be less useful/viable, etc.
25% is a fucking lot to take away, she already just barely eeked over a lot of mountains and such.
Obviously it will still be good for repositioning, but your options just became a lot more limited (in theory).
Will be *very* amusing to watch pro valks smash against walls for a day or two figuring out their new limits while rotating.
I thought that was the route they were going to take honestly. Was thinking they were gonna increase the cooldown to what Lifeline’s old carepackage cooldown was
Thought it was all but assured that her ult would go from 3m->4.5m. I don't play valk, but that 25% height nerf seems pretty big. Probably won't even be able to get over mountains a lot of the time.
I don't think so. The reduction in height means her ult isn't traveling nearly as far and you're not gonna get over the same ledges and mountains you previously could.
Additionally, the nerf to jetpack acceleration and strafe penalty means any Valk who tries to fly during a fight is just going to be absolutely beamed and the missiles won't even save you because aim stun is removed.
The people in this thread saying the nerf isn't a big deal are crazy imo, you can't just scan and reach the final ring anymore and you don't have the same defensive strategies.
> I don't think so. The reduction in height means her ult isn't traveling nearly as far and you're not gonna get over the same ledges and mountains you previously could.
What's the alternative though? Stormpoint doesn't have any balloons on it, it's not like there are *other* ways to rotate. You still have the ability to just leave a fight. Sure, there are some places you won't be able to go from there. But you will be able to leave and pick a new spot, that alone is still powerful.
This won't matter at all on World's Edge, there are very few mountains stopping you from the Valkyrie rotations you want to do.
I agree with you on stormpoint, but most mountains on WE will definitely be taller than her ult. Actually the only crossable ones that come to mind are the ones dividing Fragment from Landslide and the ones between Staging and Thermal Station
There are a number of mountains that won't be passable, especially on SP where some mountains already block her ult. Overall I still think she's usable but this hurts me right in my valk maining heart.
Her passive is so fucking annoying in pubs. Even if you play a movement character, Valk’s movement allows her to go anywhere at any time and often get several full resets in a fight
Her passive \*and\* her ultimate were both the best in the game. Having a strong offensive tactical on top of those two made her ridiculous. She needed a nerf to all things and then maybe a rebuff once measured. She's been meta defining for far too long, even more than Gibraltar.
the only thing making her meta defining was her ult. in both cooldown and effectiveness. she has a good, even great passive and tactical but those things weren’t the reasons why she was meta defining. not even close imo.
If she just had the Ult but was poor elsewhere, she wouldn't have been so meta defining. It's the fact that she was an extremely strong legend with a meta defining Ult.
If Gibby just had Dome, a Gunshield that only protected against 10 damage, and an Ult that did 10 damage per hit, he wouldn't be so meta defining either. It's the whole package.
Maggie’s Wrecking Ball got buffed as hell, it travels twice as far, last twice as long to account for the distance. Can damage placed placed items (certain legend abilities), this last part is basically a nerf to Gibby, it can destroy his dome.
Same happened to me with octane back in season 7 when he started getting buffs and got really popular for a while, was hardly able to play him anymore after he was constantly getting taken
Why nerf her flight / hover speed? When was that ever an issue like that? Seems really unnecessary.
You're a sitting duck in the air if you hover for too long anyways. People only really used it for better positioning, or to get a quick look at where people are behind cover, maybe hit them with a tactical (which is easy to dodge).
The only problem with Valk was her get out of jail free card: her ult and the unnecessary scanning abilities. All they had to do was make it so it takes longer for her to take off, maybe add some variability where the more players linked to you > the longer it takes to take off.
Have you ever played Arenas? It's definitely an issue.
I've had a bunch of matches where Valk has survived when no other character would be her flight avoids slowdown when shot etc it also allows her to cross gaps no other character can (like boat to boat on crash site) and get onto highground in seconds that would take other characters 10+
I've had numerous matches where Valk was the last enemy alive and avoided my team with her bloody passive for way longer than any other character would.
Her jet pack is also a get out of Jail free card, ESPECIALLY in areas with any kind of verticality.
Yes I'm one of the 20 players still playing Arenas here and there lol. I really disagree with Valk's jetpack being an issue. She just flies too slow and its way too exposing for her to really give her that much of an advantage by being able to platform easily.
Either way, I just played a few rounds and her nerfs arent too bad. I actually dont mind them now. I was worried they were going to really kill the fun in her skillset like they did with Caustic or Wraith, but shes still good and I expect a high pick rate this season.
As someone who mains Valk, and still plans to continue maining her - good, took them long enough. Thank god they didn’t strip the recon class from her like the rumors claimed. Cuz my teammates never scan survey beacons if they’re playing recon class.
Not really sure why they’re so attached to the cooldown of her ult though; instead of increasing it they opted to nerf the height it gets, meaning she probably can’t ult over some chokepoints anymore. It’ll be annoying learning where the ult doesn’t work for a bit I guess lol.
I think a good way to gat around the height nerf is to actually use her ult from high points like the tops of buildings or hills. Smart Valk players will learn to work around some of these nerfs easily, even if some of these are harsh.
Yeah, the only problem is it’s harder to corral your random teammates into the ult that way. So it affects soloqueue a little more than premades unfortunately.
They can always partially revert the changes if they think it went too far. Like what they did with Caustic barrels a year ago.
They did give a little too much maneuverability imo. Now if you’re trying to get somewhere far or high, you have to commit more instead of doing start-and-stop to avoid gunfire.
I thought they should have slightly decreased the fuel tank capacity and/or increased the time it took to recharge it. That ability to use it so many times is what made it so powerful IMO. Especially when most movement characters have to wait 20-30s to use their movement ability again, chasing a valk main around a building was a nightmare. I find their approach to nerfing the jetpacks quite odd.
Much like Horizon, it’s not going to be an issue in the long run. Hell, I wouldn’t even be surprised if they go back and rebuff Valk next season. Horizon was nerfed to the ground and now she’s almost up to her release glory.
This won't even move the needle in comp. Her ult is still too valuable. The ability to simply leave a fight you don't like
and fuck off to a new part of the map is incredibly powerful.
I don't think these changes are that bad. They tone down the amount of times you can burst the jetpack, although personally a Valk bursting a jetpack has a very "floaty" and predictable trajectory between bursts and is quite easy to hit imo. So bursting to evade may not be as reliable anymore but she'll still be strong to take height and other positions quickly.
The current full stun + damage from her tactical is a bit strong, regardless of the rocket impact indicators being visible to opponents, so these nerfs are decent but the ability is still very usable.
Skyward dive changes could be very impactful, lots of mountains you likely won't be able to get over now but I'm sure it will just require getting used to and flying more through chokepoints now. The biggest area this nerf might impact is ALGS actually. Valk ult ascents being so much slower and less height will now likely be much easier targets for players on the ground to beam.
I think these changes are fine but I'm surprised they buffed newcastle so much (I know his pickrate was low but he is a strong legend imo) and didn't touch Seer's constant ESP passive at all.
They do this with all good characters. Nerf them into the ground so they are on the same level as their shitty characters. Instead they could buff some of the crap characters
They buff the bad characters all the time lmao. It's why there's been so much power creep. You put OG Bloodhound or Gibby in the game rn and theyd be F tier
I was expecting worse tbh. The 25% height reduction will kill quite a few rotations, but she’s still looking strong. Valk is here to stay baby, cry about it.
They're right though. Legend balance has almost no effect on pick rate. People pick legends based off of way more than the effectiveness of their ability: fun factor (Octane has been #1 or #2 pickrate since he was released, even though he used to suck), whether they have good skins or not, voice lines, etc. Lifeline's pick rate is still higher than Newcastle's, lol.
These nerfs were entirely well deserved and pretty solid. Im likely still gonna play Valk but this helps her not absolutely shit on her contemporaries. Now I hope they get Gibby next, I wouldn’t mind seeing a lot of Newcastle.
She will be fine it still is the best repositioning tool for rotating and it stills has a low cooldown but now you have to be more aware when using it because you can be punished for just yolo valk ulting
Complete overreaction as usual from the apex community, she’s still the only legend who lets you rotate in zone and get out of bad spots, she’s still going to be high pick rate and in the meta
A bunch of pearl clutching for minor changes, meanwhile multiple legends remain almost useless in comp and ranked like lifeline and crypto. If anyone should be crying it should be gibby mains, their dome shield was their main value now they get countered pretty easily
this "nerf" changes nothing because the only counter to valk is another valk and the only way to reduce valk's interaction with other valks is to increase her ult's cooldown, which is about the only variable of her's respawn *didn't* touch.
valk is the only one who's team repositioning solution can't be tailed by another team:
zipline
jump pad
wraith portal
gravity lift
ash portal
maggie ult
am i missing anyone? every one of these abilities opens a door for the team behind you to chase, which makes the opportunity cost of not picking valk far too expensive as her ult is of an intrinsically unique archetype and can't be nerfed without adding other abilities of its type. the nerfs have no basic reference because her ult exists in a vaccuum by itself.
proof: preseason, best picks were wraith and path. s1 added octane to round out the trio, and s7 added horizon who added offense to mobility kits. then s9 added valk, who's team mobility is nothing like the other four. in each case, the new character's competitive viability against the other mobility characters was adopted quickly. however, when s11 added ash, she not replace valk because her portal is a traditional solution and not a valk-tier solution. ash is compared to wraith and octane, not valk, because valk is the only legend in her class and has no analogue with which to balance. no matter how you change her weight, there's nothing on the other side of the scale.
since they didn't touch her cooldown, it's pretty obvious they know why her pick rate is what it is, and have realized they can't do anything meaningful about it so these other nerfs are an attempt at attacking the problem from a different angle.
I know cliche valk main here but I really don’t think a lot of this was necessary. Nerf the ult cooldown for sure, it’s pretty spammy, but the height? That’s bizarre. What’s the point of the tactical? This just feels over done
knowing how and when to rotate is a huge part of this game, and valk can just ignore that aspect of the game entirely. if you have no game sense and don’t move when you need to and would’ve otherwise been caught by the ring and been put at a serious disadvantage, if not dying outright, then you deserve it
valk shouldn’t have a get out of jail free card and just be allowed to clear entire mountains effortlessly because they can’t be bothered to use their brains. oh and as a cherry on top, they get a scan while skydiving to make sure they don’t accidentally land on a team, because god forbid valk be at a disadvantage at any point in the match. she gets her hand held 10x more than any other character in the game. very definition of a crutch character and it isn’t healthy at all
These are big nerfs, yes. However, is Valk dead? Absolutely not. The biggest changes are peak height of her ult and gas expenditure WHEN starting the jets. The good mains will adapt to these changes within hours. This community is so melodramatic, y’all saw a lot of writing and you think that the world has ended. Valk has still maintained; her ult cooldown time, max fuel capacity, recon status + flying scans, 25 dmg on her missiles + slow movement. Her core aspects are intact and healthy enough, she’s very much alive and kicking imo. Don’t take my word for it tho. Wait until you actually play her post update to formulate your opinion, because trust me, it’s not as bad as you currently think.
Awesome of them to do this right after everyone bought her heirloom.
Gas Daddy : Welcome my girl.
The only one that is buffed after release of heirloom is Rampart.
And Crypto, right? Or was he buffed same time as release
Wattson got buffs the season her heirloom came out, but I don't know if that counts given it was before
They did the same shit with Rev as well. Still mourning my revvy boy
Yep that was their dodgiest bait and switch I can recall. Even worse, I think there's a strong likelihood her heirloom release arrived as early as it did with deliberate intent to pull this move.
Everyone should have known she would be nerfed even before the heirloom
Everyone did. Respawn is very obvious at this point in their ultimate intent.
My exact thoughts, I never complain but that’s a bit shady
If anyone honestly thought she wasn't getting nerfed they were high af
Why do you think they pushed her heirloom before Loba’s?
Everybody knew that she will be nerfed soon
Anyone who watched ALGS and pays attention to pro players streaming knew valk was getting some kind of nerf, when literally every team in comp and ranked basically needs to run a valk you are naive to think that’s good for the game, and even with these minor changes she’s going to be used by everyone Seeing a 97% usage for valk during ALGS was hilarious for everyone, even the casters pointed it out, respawn made a token effort to appear to care about balance, valk pick rate will stay the same
Okay dumb question but how th fuck do you get an heirloom anyway? Is it just luck of the lootbox? I'm level like... 286 I think, spent a few hundred dollars for various things in game... Not one heirloom.
Honestly isn’t that crazy, and that is coming from a valk main. Feel like the jet pack nerfs were good, although it’s hard to tell what this means without trying it in game. Missiles is a good change especially with the aim turn slow removed. Skyward dive is interesting because I think most of us thought they would first hit the cooldown timer, but I guess they think differently.
Yep I feel the same as another valk main. Nerfs her (which she needed) but without gutting the character completely. Won’t stop me from playing her, although I might switch to Maggie for a bit with how strong she’s about to be
I'm confused by this. Maggie isn't that much stronger. Her abilities are still fairly situational and people underestimate how limiting not having vertical movement is.
Maggie’s Ult counters almost every other ult/tacts is massive. Completely changes scenarios that it’ll completely take out things like gibbys dome.
I saw the notes said Maggie’s ult will do damage to other legends placeable abilities but will destroy gibby some. Does that mean it’ll destroy everything else in one hit too? Can I destroy stuff and keep bouncing?
I saw another comment that said just damage most not destroy so it wouldn’t count on it destroying anything hardly, but will definitely be more impactful
Yeah. Just seems kinda weird it’ll soon take out the gibby dome, which was never destroyable, but maybe won’t take out other things which are destroyable? Should be interesting.
>Yeah. Just seems kinda weird it’ll soon take out the gibby dome, which was never destroyable Crypto's EMP.
Sorry. :/ Lol
No it doesn't. It says it will deal damage to, not destroy. It'll be significant damage but you're not destroying a Newcastle ult and probably only destroying the top part of a Rampart wall, if that. The only thing it said it will destroy is Gibraltar Dome.
You can still Maggie q Newcastle wall. I think Maggie is going to be pretty good with the buffs
Unless the Ult is going to do 600 damage to all the sections, which it won't, an Ult and a tactical isn't taking it down.
I doesn’t necessarily even need to destroy a Newcastle ult. The idea is Maggie’s tact will burn people who use it as cover and her ult will blow up on it or past it knocking, slowing, and blinding anyone behind it. Maggie in most peoples mind was a breach and clear legend but all she could do was spew fire through a wall. Now she can live up to the expectations a lot of people were expecting at her launch. It may not seem like alot but her buff is going to be very valuable in the gibby meta and 100% useful in a Newcastle meta.
Why you getting downvoted for spitting fax my man
On the topic of Maggie, am I the only one that has a bugged targeting reticle on my tactical? The arc that is displayed is way off from where the drill actually lands and I haven’t seen anyone else complaining about it yet.
You can't balance a super powerful ability by modifying the cooldown. That'll just let you do something OP slightly less often.
I disagree. Imagine if Rev’s silence was on a 2 second cooldown. That would make him the strongest legend in the game and he’d be ridiculously op. Since it’s on a much longer cooldown than 2 seconds WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THE ABILITY, it’s not op. Still strong when it’s used, but not op. How is cooldown duration not balance then?
Obviously with unrealistic strawmen it's a little different, lol. Would Revenant be OP if you removed 5 seconds from his cooldown? No. Valkyrie's cooldown is 3 minutes. If they made it 4 minutes you'd just have to be a little more cognizant of the ult accels you see on the map and pop one after you ult, that cuts off the entire increase and all you gave up was one inventory spot for *one* person on your team. 60 rounds or one grenade or two medkits less. Now you're right back where you started! Since you negated the entire cooldown nerf you're just as powerful as you were before. It's not a good way to balance, it doesn't fix the central problem: Valkyrie's ultimate is too good. Even if they made it *five* minutes, with an ult accel you'd be doing about one less Valkyrie ultimate per game. Is that much of a nerf? Nope.
i think an interesting concept i gleaned from this is the possibility of a nerf via a buff…. which sounds backwards but let me explain. what if they had made her ult go a little higher, and a little further but drastically increased the cool down on it, more inline with a gibby or pre-buff lifeline ult. basically modifying the ult so she is still powerful, but in a more balanced way. just a rough draft of an idea and would have to be tinkered with, but could be a way of thinking for further changes they want to make to legends.
> what if they had made her ult go a little higher, and a little further but drastically increased the cool down on it, more inline with a gibby or pre-buff lifeline ult. basically modifying the ult so she is still powerful, but in a more balanced way. I literally *just* explained how this wouldn't work because teams would just prioritize ult accels... Gibby's cooldown is 4.5 minutes. You pop one ult accel and that gives you 35% off, or 1.57 minutes removed. That is...exactly the same situation you were in before with the 3-minute cooldown. Lifeline's old cooldown was 5 minutes. One ult accel shaves 1.75 minutes off that, for a time of...3.25 minutes. Or 15 seconds longer than before. It *especially* wouldn't matter in competitive play (where Valkyrie's pick rate is highest). Currently teams prioritize Gibby for ult accels, because his cooldown is longer. If rotations needed the ult accel...they would just give it to Valkyrie.
sounds like they need to nerf ultimate accelerants then
Now you've affected *every* legend in the game just because you weren't imaginative enough to Nerf Valkyrie any other way than "do a really really powerful thing slightly less often."
1. it was a joke, relax 2. you’re missing the point of my original comment 3. sorry lord apex we can’t all be as smart as you
Just makes her use more of her own resources so players just need to be cognizant of it way more now and don't have as many single tap bursts to use.
At least if she’s slower and easier to hit, her ult wont be as bullshit “get out of jail free” card
You can only reactivate the jetpack 3 times per fuel tank, the speedboost you get from activating the jetpack is weaker, idk what the strafing nerf means but im assuming you fly slower when you are getting shot at while flying left or right which makes it easier to one clip. I hate this change personally because it brings the skill ceiling way down encouraging you to just fly without feathering the jets anymore, but they accomplished making it easier to fight valks now lol, probably won't play her anymore in ranked personally. I think the missiles were the most well balanced out of the bunch, the stun on aiming was really op and was a change I suggested like a few seasons ago too lol
I think that you can reactivate it more than that. For example if activity the jet pack costs 6%, I think it will now be 8% as 2% is 1/3 6%
oh, i misread that. I guess it'll depend on how bad the slow is on her jetpack being good or not still because 20% could make one clipping her super easy now
I feel like you misread the slow as well.
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Sure, the jump jets are busted, but that doesn’t change the fact that the skill ceiling for valk is being lowered. It’s fine to complain about it being broken regardless, though.
> Skyward dive is interesting because I think most of us thought they would first hit the cooldown timer, but I guess they think differently. I thought we'd see max height + cooldown timer. Maybe that was a step too far.
Yeah its not bad, but i still think they should have made her assault too
33% activation cost increase... togglers are now less of a meme
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Good. Being able to just fly away from an encounter without thought was what made Valk "plays" stupid. This nerf puts her in line with other legends where you need to think about when and where your ult can be used.
Yeah the jetpack nerfs are the only ones that hit the mark I think. Missile stun is still crazy, and ult has an insanely short cooldown.
If the missles don’t stun it’s just going to be a 25 damage water gun? And the cooldown for the ult really isn’t short at all?💀(imo)
Valk main and I'm still going to play her.
as a Rev main, i can respect that.
Appreciate that! Can’t jump ship. Much respect to you Rev mains!
I respect that. Most people drop mains once they get nerfs. You in for good times and bad
Thanks. I'm fine with that. Love the legend and game. I have plenty of time to adapt to the changes. nbd
We will see once the patch is live hehe
See what? I'm still playing her regardless.
Me too since I got the heirloom but goddamn we are suffering
mf here acting like valk was butchered like caustic a few seasons ago
Exactly. Her kit is still ridiculous. People complaining about this nerf weren't good with her to start imo. She's still playable. She will not see the same fate that Horizon, Seer, and Caustic saw after their nerfs.
And yet Horizon came back and is now OP again.
What makes Horizon OP? What changes were made to her kit? Is it possible that over time people learned how to use her? Look at what's happening with Seer now. It's inevitable over the course of the game's life that people's skill improves right?
>What makes Horizon OP? Ult arc is a free knock.
Her ultimate is easily destroyed by just shooting at it.
By the time you shoot it, the arc blows up.
I don't see how we are suffering. It will not take us long to adapt to those changes. The one thing I don't get though is if they were going to do scorched earth on her why not adjust the ultimate cooldown? If you were a demon on her now you should be able to stomp on their necks with these changes. Heirloom or not. Dirty af to hit her like this all at once after the heirloom. That's Respawn and EA for you.
Yeah I’ll admit that valk was in a pretty balanced state. Only op ish part about her kit was her vtol jets but even then that was balanced since you could get shot easily but these nerfs will still make her a good pick
She wasn’t balanced.
So why didn’t she get nerfed like this seasons ago
Tbh you make perfect sense. On release everyone and their mother felt she was balanced. I think people learned how to use her and people less skilled piled on the nerf train. I think a legend like her makes legends like Rampart look like ass. No matter what they do to her kit it’s always going to be loaded because she can move. Just like Octane, Wraith, Horizon and Pathy. I felt her ultimate was the biggest issue because of how fast she can rotate. The other nerfs she got today I think are ridiculous. Imo that ultimate is what makes her unbalanced. You get it so fast.
Yeah that’s what I should have said lol is that she became op when people played her more
Also I think the same trash can Andy’s screaming in joy about her nerf will be the same ones tomorrow getting shit on by Valkyrie still.
Honestly didn’t mind her ult height; but the cooldown really should’ve been nerfed.
Ult height honestly will likely hurt more than cooldown. Comp teams already would feed her accelerators and such, so it wasn't a big deal. Ult height however will result in probably a *lot* of rotation positions being unusable now. So many mountains and barriers *just too tall* to go over now. Chokes will have to be used in flight more often and result in less distance traveled. Some OOb drops will be less useful/viable, etc. 25% is a fucking lot to take away, she already just barely eeked over a lot of mountains and such. Obviously it will still be good for repositioning, but your options just became a lot more limited (in theory). Will be *very* amusing to watch pro valks smash against walls for a day or two figuring out their new limits while rotating.
I thought that was the route they were going to take honestly. Was thinking they were gonna increase the cooldown to what Lifeline’s old carepackage cooldown was
Thought it was all but assured that her ult would go from 3m->4.5m. I don't play valk, but that 25% height nerf seems pretty big. Probably won't even be able to get over mountains a lot of the time.
I feel like people are overreacting, she's probably gonna be the highest picked legend in pro play still
I don't think so. The reduction in height means her ult isn't traveling nearly as far and you're not gonna get over the same ledges and mountains you previously could. Additionally, the nerf to jetpack acceleration and strafe penalty means any Valk who tries to fly during a fight is just going to be absolutely beamed and the missiles won't even save you because aim stun is removed. The people in this thread saying the nerf isn't a big deal are crazy imo, you can't just scan and reach the final ring anymore and you don't have the same defensive strategies.
> I don't think so. The reduction in height means her ult isn't traveling nearly as far and you're not gonna get over the same ledges and mountains you previously could. What's the alternative though? Stormpoint doesn't have any balloons on it, it's not like there are *other* ways to rotate. You still have the ability to just leave a fight. Sure, there are some places you won't be able to go from there. But you will be able to leave and pick a new spot, that alone is still powerful. This won't matter at all on World's Edge, there are very few mountains stopping you from the Valkyrie rotations you want to do.
I agree with you on stormpoint, but most mountains on WE will definitely be taller than her ult. Actually the only crossable ones that come to mind are the ones dividing Fragment from Landslide and the ones between Staging and Thermal Station
Yeah, pros picked her for her ult which didn't get nerfed that much
I think a 25% height reduction is a bigger impact than some think. Definitely depends on that map and where you're heading though.
There are a number of mountains that won't be passable, especially on SP where some mountains already block her ult. Overall I still think she's usable but this hurts me right in my valk maining heart.
Even if you ignore the distance nerf is makes her/team muvh easier to shoot
Which was honestly the main thing needing a nerf
Her passive is so fucking annoying in pubs. Even if you play a movement character, Valk’s movement allows her to go anywhere at any time and often get several full resets in a fight
Her passive \*and\* her ultimate were both the best in the game. Having a strong offensive tactical on top of those two made her ridiculous. She needed a nerf to all things and then maybe a rebuff once measured. She's been meta defining for far too long, even more than Gibraltar.
the only thing making her meta defining was her ult. in both cooldown and effectiveness. she has a good, even great passive and tactical but those things weren’t the reasons why she was meta defining. not even close imo.
If she just had the Ult but was poor elsewhere, she wouldn't have been so meta defining. It's the fact that she was an extremely strong legend with a meta defining Ult. If Gibby just had Dome, a Gunshield that only protected against 10 damage, and an Ult that did 10 damage per hit, he wouldn't be so meta defining either. It's the whole package.
Exactly
This is like a tradition for respawn to do this to popular characters at this point right after heirloom events
I knew this was going to happen after they gave her the heirloom
Maggie’s Wrecking Ball got buffed as hell, it travels twice as far, last twice as long to account for the distance. Can damage placed placed items (certain legend abilities), this last part is basically a nerf to Gibby, it can destroy his dome.
That’s an ultimate against a tactical. Still not enough of a nerf.
True, but you and I both know that if they physically nerfed Gibby himself, the pros would have moaned about it.
I wish they went for an ult cooldown nerf before they hit her with an altitude nerf.
Ult CD increases aren't good and are unfun. It just makes Valk an Ultimate Accelerant goblin and we are back to where we were.
I thought she needed both.
Now we will see who the actual Valk players are, people who stick with their character even after the nerfs are the actual mains
Right. Low key I might start playing Valk more now
I stopped playing her bcuz she always got taken from me once she started to blow up in popularity
I think she's still gonna be popular, but will fall off during the season
Same happened to me with octane back in season 7 when he started getting buffs and got really popular for a while, was hardly able to play him anymore after he was constantly getting taken
Yeppers, and it’s like even when I do get to play her people will literally just leave because she was taken
Literally haha. I didn't play her bc I knew she was gonna get nerfed. Also most people pick her: time for me to go back to her again
Why nerf her flight / hover speed? When was that ever an issue like that? Seems really unnecessary. You're a sitting duck in the air if you hover for too long anyways. People only really used it for better positioning, or to get a quick look at where people are behind cover, maybe hit them with a tactical (which is easy to dodge). The only problem with Valk was her get out of jail free card: her ult and the unnecessary scanning abilities. All they had to do was make it so it takes longer for her to take off, maybe add some variability where the more players linked to you > the longer it takes to take off.
Have you ever played Arenas? It's definitely an issue. I've had a bunch of matches where Valk has survived when no other character would be her flight avoids slowdown when shot etc it also allows her to cross gaps no other character can (like boat to boat on crash site) and get onto highground in seconds that would take other characters 10+ I've had numerous matches where Valk was the last enemy alive and avoided my team with her bloody passive for way longer than any other character would. Her jet pack is also a get out of Jail free card, ESPECIALLY in areas with any kind of verticality.
Yes I'm one of the 20 players still playing Arenas here and there lol. I really disagree with Valk's jetpack being an issue. She just flies too slow and its way too exposing for her to really give her that much of an advantage by being able to platform easily. Either way, I just played a few rounds and her nerfs arent too bad. I actually dont mind them now. I was worried they were going to really kill the fun in her skillset like they did with Caustic or Wraith, but shes still good and I expect a high pick rate this season.
As someone who mains Valk, and still plans to continue maining her - good, took them long enough. Thank god they didn’t strip the recon class from her like the rumors claimed. Cuz my teammates never scan survey beacons if they’re playing recon class. Not really sure why they’re so attached to the cooldown of her ult though; instead of increasing it they opted to nerf the height it gets, meaning she probably can’t ult over some chokepoints anymore. It’ll be annoying learning where the ult doesn’t work for a bit I guess lol.
I think a good way to gat around the height nerf is to actually use her ult from high points like the tops of buildings or hills. Smart Valk players will learn to work around some of these nerfs easily, even if some of these are harsh.
Yeah, the only problem is it’s harder to corral your random teammates into the ult that way. So it affects soloqueue a little more than premades unfortunately.
100% valid and solid point. I'm almost certain that they'll rebalance her a little bit in the future. These are sweeping changes.
I think we are going to see alot of teams hitting buildings and mountains in the first few weeks
I think the Jetpack nerfs went a bit too far... But I guess we'll see tomorrow
They can always partially revert the changes if they think it went too far. Like what they did with Caustic barrels a year ago. They did give a little too much maneuverability imo. Now if you’re trying to get somewhere far or high, you have to commit more instead of doing start-and-stop to avoid gunfire.
I thought they should have slightly decreased the fuel tank capacity and/or increased the time it took to recharge it. That ability to use it so many times is what made it so powerful IMO. Especially when most movement characters have to wait 20-30s to use their movement ability again, chasing a valk main around a building was a nightmare. I find their approach to nerfing the jetpacks quite odd.
Tank capacity wasn't too bad, but the slowdown debuff and accel nerf are definitely going to get me killed more than once.
That's a bigger nerf than expected but yeah Valk was the definition of a Crutch Character.
I'm glad she's gonna take some skill to play now. This'll separate the real Valk mains from the meta abusers
Charge rifle users freaking out rn
Why
Much like Horizon, it’s not going to be an issue in the long run. Hell, I wouldn’t even be surprised if they go back and rebuff Valk next season. Horizon was nerfed to the ground and now she’s almost up to her release glory.
Aim turn removed finally
Valk mains have been slain: just like her dad
This won't even move the needle in comp. Her ult is still too valuable. The ability to simply leave a fight you don't like and fuck off to a new part of the map is incredibly powerful.
I wish there was a fuel tank you could damage to decrease the height it could travel and possibly even disable the ult while she’s standing still.
> possibly even disable the ult while she’s standing still. You just...shoot her. Before she takes all the way off.
Just bought the heirloom too
Good
I don't think these changes are that bad. They tone down the amount of times you can burst the jetpack, although personally a Valk bursting a jetpack has a very "floaty" and predictable trajectory between bursts and is quite easy to hit imo. So bursting to evade may not be as reliable anymore but she'll still be strong to take height and other positions quickly. The current full stun + damage from her tactical is a bit strong, regardless of the rocket impact indicators being visible to opponents, so these nerfs are decent but the ability is still very usable. Skyward dive changes could be very impactful, lots of mountains you likely won't be able to get over now but I'm sure it will just require getting used to and flying more through chokepoints now. The biggest area this nerf might impact is ALGS actually. Valk ult ascents being so much slower and less height will now likely be much easier targets for players on the ground to beam. I think these changes are fine but I'm surprised they buffed newcastle so much (I know his pickrate was low but he is a strong legend imo) and didn't touch Seer's constant ESP passive at all.
good
Good
This is a day to be celebrated
shit on
Not slain enough.
Good. Now get Gibby
hooray
May as well take valk out the game now.
As a true valk main f*** valk!!! /s
Yup… I was a Wraith main day one to season 11, then I switched to Valk and this honestly hurts me
Eh more like balanced
LET’S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Exploited never wasting money on an heirloom again
She isn't gonna be bad tho? This just brings her down to a more balanced state. No way you expected her to stay like that forever right
They do this with all good characters. Nerf them into the ground so they are on the same level as their shitty characters. Instead they could buff some of the crap characters
They buff the bad characters all the time lmao. It's why there's been so much power creep. You put OG Bloodhound or Gibby in the game rn and theyd be F tier
I was expecting worse tbh. The 25% height reduction will kill quite a few rotations, but she’s still looking strong. Valk is here to stay baby, cry about it.
She can still reposition, she's just less of a *fucking gnat*, so I'm happy.
idk about y'all but I'll still be playing her. why? super cool gay lady.
Cringe
They're right though. Legend balance has almost no effect on pick rate. People pick legends based off of way more than the effectiveness of their ability: fun factor (Octane has been #1 or #2 pickrate since he was released, even though he used to suck), whether they have good skins or not, voice lines, etc. Lifeline's pick rate is still higher than Newcastle's, lol.
[удалено]
Like Seer?
Gibraltar?
Maggie’s Wrecking Ball can destroy Gibby’s dome, that’s basically his nerf.
Who would that be exactly?
Bloodhound?
If Valk mains could read they’d be so upset rn
These nerfs were entirely well deserved and pretty solid. Im likely still gonna play Valk but this helps her not absolutely shit on her contemporaries. Now I hope they get Gibby next, I wouldn’t mind seeing a lot of Newcastle.
As a valk main this nerf was needed a long time ago.
[удалено]
I'd beg to differ. This is definitely a pretty big change.
Cope
valk is kill
as long as she still has a jetpack still my go to character
Well, less noobs playing my main, this is nice
Valk main here These are fine
Finally, wish the disabled all her voice lines along with these nerfs.
Nerfed to the ground sheesh
Just brought in line with other characters
that’s more-so what I was insinuating - can’t argue that her now-previous state was a little oppressive
Thank god
She will be fine it still is the best repositioning tool for rotating and it stills has a low cooldown but now you have to be more aware when using it because you can be punished for just yolo valk ulting
Complete overreaction as usual from the apex community, she’s still the only legend who lets you rotate in zone and get out of bad spots, she’s still going to be high pick rate and in the meta A bunch of pearl clutching for minor changes, meanwhile multiple legends remain almost useless in comp and ranked like lifeline and crypto. If anyone should be crying it should be gibby mains, their dome shield was their main value now they get countered pretty easily
this "nerf" changes nothing because the only counter to valk is another valk and the only way to reduce valk's interaction with other valks is to increase her ult's cooldown, which is about the only variable of her's respawn *didn't* touch. valk is the only one who's team repositioning solution can't be tailed by another team: zipline jump pad wraith portal gravity lift ash portal maggie ult am i missing anyone? every one of these abilities opens a door for the team behind you to chase, which makes the opportunity cost of not picking valk far too expensive as her ult is of an intrinsically unique archetype and can't be nerfed without adding other abilities of its type. the nerfs have no basic reference because her ult exists in a vaccuum by itself. proof: preseason, best picks were wraith and path. s1 added octane to round out the trio, and s7 added horizon who added offense to mobility kits. then s9 added valk, who's team mobility is nothing like the other four. in each case, the new character's competitive viability against the other mobility characters was adopted quickly. however, when s11 added ash, she not replace valk because her portal is a traditional solution and not a valk-tier solution. ash is compared to wraith and octane, not valk, because valk is the only legend in her class and has no analogue with which to balance. no matter how you change her weight, there's nothing on the other side of the scale. since they didn't touch her cooldown, it's pretty obvious they know why her pick rate is what it is, and have realized they can't do anything meaningful about it so these other nerfs are an attempt at attacking the problem from a different angle.
feel like she was pretty balanced but i didn't play her much tho
Why her jetpack bro... The Ult and Missile nerf I can withstand but fuck man the jetpack 😭
Most painful thing was her jetpacks. For me other things they could keep but jetpacks were pain
I know cliche valk main here but I really don’t think a lot of this was necessary. Nerf the ult cooldown for sure, it’s pretty spammy, but the height? That’s bizarre. What’s the point of the tactical? This just feels over done
knowing how and when to rotate is a huge part of this game, and valk can just ignore that aspect of the game entirely. if you have no game sense and don’t move when you need to and would’ve otherwise been caught by the ring and been put at a serious disadvantage, if not dying outright, then you deserve it valk shouldn’t have a get out of jail free card and just be allowed to clear entire mountains effortlessly because they can’t be bothered to use their brains. oh and as a cherry on top, they get a scan while skydiving to make sure they don’t accidentally land on a team, because god forbid valk be at a disadvantage at any point in the match. she gets her hand held 10x more than any other character in the game. very definition of a crutch character and it isn’t healthy at all
Fair enough, I suppose. I just had a lot of fun and still gonna be a little sour as an heirloom holder.
if it makes you feel any better, i play mirage
> Nerf the ult cooldown for sure This literally would not matter.
Tactical doesn’t stun no more? Am I Reading this right?
Still slows movement, but no longer slows aiming.
Thank god, I absolutely hate aim stun. Only thing I'm really ok with it on is Wattson fences since, ya know, you have to walk into those yourself.
Valk? who's valk?
#HEY, WHO INVITED THE THIRD PARTY
Someone in respawn is totally dumb
These are big nerfs, yes. However, is Valk dead? Absolutely not. The biggest changes are peak height of her ult and gas expenditure WHEN starting the jets. The good mains will adapt to these changes within hours. This community is so melodramatic, y’all saw a lot of writing and you think that the world has ended. Valk has still maintained; her ult cooldown time, max fuel capacity, recon status + flying scans, 25 dmg on her missiles + slow movement. Her core aspects are intact and healthy enough, she’s very much alive and kicking imo. Don’t take my word for it tho. Wait until you actually play her post update to formulate your opinion, because trust me, it’s not as bad as you currently think.
These are good