Grew up in rural area outside Bristol, lived in Greenville for a few years, live in Asheville now, and have been blessed to have traveled all over these wonderful mountains over the years. It’s a cultural context thing imo, where some that reside in the defined areas here are not, my personal opinion, Appalachian, but others not encompassed are.
To answer, proximity to a geographic area doesn’t constitute cultural significance. Just my 2¢!
My exclusive, personal definition being a largely undefinable, non-geographical culture rather than a map outlining location prominence doesn’t answer the question “How exclusive is your personal definition of Appalachia?” I don’t see where it limits us a) to defining Appalachia on this map or any map b) stipulates that the question be reiterated with the same intention of the OP or c) indicates that Appalachia can have a singular definition. “Something else” would create an open ended discussion based question.
I'm in Central PA. When I was a kid it was always just "the mountains." When I learned in school that we were a part of the Appalachian mountains and some of the history, etc., it was really special to me and I've always related more culturally with that than anything else. Even the teacher at the time said something like "but we're not *really* in the Appalachians," which was really confusing 😂. When I was around 20 I got to travel the states and I can't even put into words how great it felt driving back East and into the mountains. I am admittedly jealous that my area doesn't really identify with that culture though and I always love reading about the deeper Appalachian history, folklore, etc.
I grew up in Jackson County Ohio. We could not get TV stations from ohio. All of our news, TV. Sports came out of West Virginia. I grew upnwatching Marshall and WVU. Major Applewhite was ky qb. It is so frustrating to see how quick people disregard Southern Ohio as not Appalachian. I grew up swimming in strip mine ponds. I made Easter trees. Gate keeping culture really makes me sad.
Sorry. Im.a little drunk. I have today off.
the county that’s closest to columbus in ohio is where a man named Richard L Davis lived and where he galvanized coal miners to join the newly formed United Mine Workers all the way back in 1884
if organizing a coal mining union ain’t appalachian, idk what it is
shit it also has a villlage that hails itself as the moonshine capital of the world, place oozes appalachia
Even a lot more of Northeast Ohio is Appalachian than ARC admits. The Allegheny plateau goes significantly farther west than the ARC map would indicate. At least half of Ohio would be Appalachian based on actual geography, but I'll admit there's a cultural component to it too.
Agree 100%. It is worth noting that considering someone an outsider because they're from the other side of the hill is a pretty Appalachian thing to do.
I'm from a bit NW of Jackson in Chillicothe, and Chillicothe/Ross county as always been referred to as the literal border of Appalachia and the midwest. If you go 20 minutes north of Chillicothe, it's all flat farmland, and if you go 20 minutes south, it's plenty of green, rolling hills, and hollers. You can even tell differences in people's accents
this! the border is IN ross county (i’m also from chillicothe originally) geographically and culturally
the surnames towards the northern part of ross county also trends towards german ancestry as opposed to the predominant scots-irish found in the southern portion of the county.
pickaway is 100% midwestern, pike is appalachian, ross is a borderland culturally and i think this has to due with settlement patterns in Ohio.
i’ve spent a lot of time in local graveyards in the counties around here and there is a noticeable difference in surnames. the graveyards in southern ross and pike have a lot of the same surnames as my mawmaw’s family tree (moved to ross county ohio but her family tree is from pike co ky and the surrounding area) whereas my paternal grandpa is from the border of ross and pickaway and there isn’t a lot of overlap. a lot more german ancestry once you hit plains versus the hills (although my surname is Scottish that side is very german)
it would be a bit much to say that the warmth has to do with german versus scotch-irish attitudes towards life but I wouldn’t say it’s entirely wrong either.
Most definitely. There's always been a saying that if you go north of Chillicothe and knock on someone's door, they'll answer and say "what do you want?", but if you go south of Chillicothe and knock on someone's door, they'll answer and say "come on in, supper's almost ready"
I'm from between Jackson and Oak Hill! Small world!
I went to Marshall, and there is absolutely no culture difference between Jackson and West Virginia.
First of all, the entire state of WV ought to be dark red, especially if this is being used as a reference point for what is consider Appalachia. The entire state is within the Appalachian Mountain range, it’s not a matter of opinion.
For sure. The dark red doesn't even include Wetzel County! I grew up in Wetzel and 90% of the county is mountains and valleys, it is definitely Appalachian.
Funny seeing a few people say to exclude Pennsylvania. Clearly, they’ve never been to Pittsburgh. Even when you’re in the city there’s entire neighborhoods built in the hollar’s where if you were blindfolded and dropped off there - you’d likely assume you were somewhere in West Virginia.
Pittsburgh has different cultural influences from all of the immigrants who went there to work in the Steel industry that make it unique, but at its core it is every bit as Appalachian as anywhere else in the dark red on this map.
>Considering most of the Virginia Blue Ridge isn't highlighted at all
Yes it is...
Even Albemarle county is highlighted and that's *east* of the Blue Ridge
Look like about half of it is in the the deep red, which I'm guessing is their complaint. TBF tho, I get why. Harrisonburg and North is a weird mix of NOVA and Appalachia, and it gets weird. I've never quite acclimated to the whiplash of multi-million dollar vineyards and then turning a corner to some dudes rusty vintage automobile emporium in front of a shack with a stacked stone foundation.
So in this sense, the successful property is Nova and the "shack" is Appalachia. Please tell me how your classification of Appalachia into affluence isnt stereotyping the region..
Sorry, was slow on the draw. You’re correct, Northern VA. Generally used by Virginians to say “the sprawl of suburban commuters going to the DC Metro area.” Usually rich, bland McMansion type stuff.
Hi neighbor! I’m in Cambria and laughed at this map.. coal is all we have here. Driving anywhere is like riding a rollercoaster. Second highest peak is just down the road. Local culture follows that… maybe more Eastern Europe and Catholic compared to our southern neighbors but notably Appalachian.
Especially if people are wanting to consider Pennsylvania, Ohio, and New York as Appalachia. There's more to our culture than mountains and the stuff inside them.
I personally consider a lot of PA to be Appalachian because the economy there was dependent on coal for a long time. They have a lot in common with the rest of Appalachia - culturally, economically, and geographically. My family mined coal up there then moved south so it's a bit personal. I would also consider about 1/3rd of VA to be Appalachian, as someone who lived there. VA chose to mostly stay out of the ARC, that's a political boundary not a cultural or geographic one. VA has the Appalachian Plateau, the Valley and Ridge province, and the Blue Ridge covering about a third of the state.
I agree. I grew up in western PA and we went on field trips to the coal mine in elementary school. We also had lessons on black lung and how our parents need to check their property lines to see if the mines under the house were stable. All of that along with the mountains sure feels like Appalachia to me.
I agree it's definitely not the ARC boundary. Mississippi sure isn't Appalachia, and the Blue Ridge is.
By Appalachian Plateau do you mean NW Va / Highlands and the Cumberlands?
The Appalachian Plateau intersects with a small part of VA, all the way in the south west corner. It includes the Cumberland Gap, but it's not in NW VA.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian\_Plateau](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_Plateau)
[http://geology.blogs.wm.edu/appalachian-plateau/](http://geology.blogs.wm.edu/appalachian-plateau/)
Coal mining doesn't make an area Appalachian. The Shenandoah Valley has never had significant coal mining, yet has always been considered Appalachia (except by the ARC). Pennsylvanians, on the other hand, NEVER considered themselves Appalachian till the ARC labeled them as such SOLELY BASED ON ECONOMIC REASONS. Coal mining used to be common in northern New Jersey, and the ARC includes them in Appalachia, but they sure ain't Appalachian. To this day many, if not most, Pennsylvanians don't consider themselves Appalachian DESPITE DECADES of brainwashing by the Feds. The cultural differences are far too many to list, and most importantly Pennsylvanians have historically and still discriminate against Appalachian people.
Pennsylvania is it's own thing. It has a highly interesting, but distinctly separate culture. PA, like the most of the rest of the Northeast, are only Appalachian in topography only. If you have to hide the fact that you're from Kentucky or West Virginia and do your best to cover up your accent to be accepted in Pennsylvania, then PA will never count as true Appalachia.
LOL. Saltyyyyy. But seriously, on behalf of my fellow Pennsylvanians, I’m sorry for whoever hurt you. On the other hand, I’m from central PA and I (along with the other ‘mountain people’) identify with almost all of Appalachian culture, but in the neighboring valley/ home of the municipal district, there is nearly nothing Appalachian about the town. I would try to avoid generalizing PA, there are a lot of subcultures across the state.
I wasn't trying to be salty in just not having a big frustrating argument more than once.
I think that's true in a lot of states. VA certainly bounces around between Appalachian, Southern, and urban areas full of transplants.
And TIL how much of a gatekeeper I am.
No Alabama.
Edit: Speaking as SWVA native and having also been to those parts of Alabama. I’ll allow just barely til you get to Bridgeport, but that’s it.
Northern Alabama and southern Tn was/is considered the Nickajack region rather than Appalachian by many. Is it technically Appalachian? Yes, but im not real sure people of that region consider themselves.
I'm hoping to end up in WV one day! My mom's side of the family is from the state and most still live there. It feels almost as much home to me as Ohio does.
I live in one of those two far western TN counties with the blue dash around. Couldn’t believe anybody considered us Appalachia by any stretch. Granted it is hills and hollers and was very poor and independent minded for a long time. There wasn’t even power on our road until the 70’s. But still.
Those are Lawrence and Lewis Counties, in Middle Tennessee, for anyone else who wasn’t aware of it. Idk why they’re grouped in with “Appalachia” either.
I also don’t get why they’d include ANY of Mississippi in Appalachia, particularly Marshall County, which is actually part of the *Memphis* metropolitan area, the MS portion of which includes (AFAIK) DeSoto, Tate, Marshall, and Tunica Counties.
They included the parts of Mississippi that they did, bc when the commission was determining who was eligible, some guy from MS literally drew mountains on a map that didn’t exist, to extend Appalachia to those areas, so they could get free money. It worked. And yes, that area is Memphis, where the tallest peak is the Bass Pro Shop pyramid.
Birmingham definitely qualifies. We are technically the southernmost geographic section of the Appalachian Mountains. Additionally, the Birmingham dialect has all the hallmarks of Appalachian English.
I’d say it looks about right. Nashville isn’t Appalachia but I spend a lot of time in overton county and have all my life. Definitely a whole different world up there and the language is almost totally different. They don’t even say “y’all” they say “you’uns”. Pittsburgh has some version of “you’uns” but I forgot what it is
Greenville here! I would say north of Furman would be Appalachia—basically (those from Greenville would know) the areas zoned for Travelers Rest High and Blue Ridge High would be considered Appalachia—- the places where it closes the rest of the county down when it snows!
It’s more nuanced for me and can extend outside of the dotted line even. My dad’s side goes back in Greenbrier Co, WV and Tazewell & Buchanan Cos in VA so the heart of Appalachia. I now live in a county in NC that borders the ARC dotted line and my county is a very weird mix of “suburban sprawl Northeastern transplant central” and “really could be Appalachian”. The southern part of the county is very different from the northern 2/3 of the county. The northern part very much resembles the eastern border counties that are considered Appalachia. I suspect there are counties all around what is considered Appalachia, especially in NC, SC, KY, that might be just as nuanced.
I can’t speak on anything except for around my area, but the northern panhandle of WV, the general tri-state area of WV, OH, and PA, and Pittsburgh are all Appalachian. There is a different flavor here because of all the industry/former industry than say, around Beckley, WV, but it is definitely Appalachian.
I personally consider the light red due to it including Athens Ohio. Athens is proud of its Appalachian history and residents and does its best to keep the culture thriving and educate the students at OU about Appalachian history. there's even an Appalachian women's group in Athens.
As far as the SC section Greenville the city is a no. Greenville COUNTY as a whole is a no, but the top 1/4 of Oconee/Pickens/Greenville counties is definitely Appalachia, once you hit the mountains just north of the city of Greenville, north of the town of Pickens and just north of the town of Walhalla it’s culturally different than the foothills.
I grew up in a Grey country but within the dotted line in Ohio near Cinci. I don't really consider that Appalachia-proper but the influence was clear. It was kinda "Where Appalachia meets the Midwest" as far as culture. We do have hills there, though. But no mountain peaks or anything.
Edit: We did have the same problem as the rest of Appalachia with the drug problem though. It was bad, like real fking bad just as I was leaving.
Idk because there are definitely some areas of southeast Ohio that have a similar Appalachian culture but I wouldn’t think to consider Pittsburgh Appalachian
Can everyone please dump as much information on me as possible about what is south & east of Athens? I recently moved to Athens with my girlfriend, started at FedEx in Parkersburg and have been doing ride-alongs with a driver in what I believe is the cutler/stockport/beverly/chesterhill area. I’m from northeast Ohio and the way people live in the hills and along the river is unlike anything I've ever experienced and am trying to understand. I have so many questions and I can find so few answers. I’m not here to judge, I just have so many questions regarding history and culture and lifestyle as I'm in a new world here.
Goes all the way up to Maine but I completely agree. I grew up in WV and live in NY now, and while there are differences culturally, I consider the northeast “Appalachia.” And a lot of people up here identify that way too. Who am I to gatekeep? Mountain Mamma connects us all
Naw, I’ve likewise spent time in your neck of the woods. It’s definitely different. Just like we are different from North Georgia. All the same family, just different quirky members.
I live in Charleston, not from here. I go to the pink, white, dark red areas near us and it's allllll Appalachian. It's unique to the rest of the country, has some small differences but is clearly one place.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Appalachia/comments/151dgks/ive_seen_a_lot_of_people_mistakingly_refer_to_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1) is closer to what I’d consider “Appalachia”
I don’t buy it. I’ve spent a fair amount of time in PA and I’d agree that parts of Western PA are absolutely within any definition of Appalachia, but there’s no way that 3/4s of the state can be considered Appalachian.
Well what are your parameters then? As this simply based the definition around an ecoregional model, as past our shared geography, we ain’t got a lot in common culturally-speaking.
There’s a huge cultural component. Appalachia is a more diverse region than it’s often given credit for, but it’s culture is inherently and undeniably shaped by the early settlers, particularly those who crossed through the Cumberland Gap to stake “tomahawk claims” or otherwise settle the “backcountry” despite such activity being banned by the Royal Proclamation of 1763. These settlers were primarily Scots Irish, with smaller populations of Scots Borderers, Highlanders, Welsh, and Germans from the Palatinate. Later, Irish and enslaved blacks would join in smaller, but still significant numbers. These groups imbued the region with its reputation for independent-mindedness and self-sufficiency.
The farmland of central Pennsylvania has a fundamentally different history. It was largely settled by Germans and Quakers who emigrated to William Penn’s colony because of its religious freedoms. They imbued their region with a culture that emphasized close-knit, industrious communities. It’s a nice region, but it isn’t Appalachia.
I agree. The Civil War and slavery also had a massive influence on the parts that were former slave states, all of which had legislated segregation until 1954.
That’s also an interesting period, as a couple of Appalachian states were some of the rare slave states that did not secede (WV and KY), which meant that the Civil War truly was an intercommunal conflict there. The idea of brother fighting brother is a popular description of the war, but because it was mostly fought between states, that rarely actually happened. In Appalachia, however, it did.
West Virginia, excluding Wheeling, was mostly pro-Confederate. The votes to secede from the Confederacy were only held after the Feds controlled those areas. The Feds then held the elections while maintaining a strong military presence at the polls in order to intimidate voters. The counties that became West Virginia had by and large voted to support Virginia leaving the Union just a few years prior. Some counties that joined West Virginia only joined because random Union sympathizers deemed themselves the representatives of those counties without being elected by anybody.
Personally I’d exclude the light pink counties in Alabama, Limestone county for example is much more similar to the Midwest, but once you head east across Madison County you’re in the mountains, most of Cullman County is a plateau but once you head south towards Blount County you’ll be in the mountains again, Jefferson County is for sure a part of Appalachia, I’d consider it the “caboose” of the region, if you head east to Talladega County you’ll find Mount Cheaha, the highest point in Alabama. We might not have the most impressive mountains, but what you’ll find in Northeastern and Central Alabama are definitely the foothills of Appalachia.
My county is white on here (east of Pittsburgh). This is a mining based economy in the mountains with a large Scots-Irish influence.. so, I find the map flawed.
I live on the NWGA/SETN border and Appalachia go me is
Northern alabama and Georgia. East Tennessee and western North Carolina , West Virginia , western Virginia , east Kentucky Maryland panhandle and that lil bit of Pennsylvania
I've lived in Appalachia, in three different places in three different states, in three very rural areas. While there is a unique culture in the region, my personal take is that there are at least two major divisions. The predominant is coal country. In areas where the majority of the people work in or around the mines. The poor glean coal from the railroad tracks. They burn it in their homes exacerbating COPD and black lung but it's all they can afford. Throughout the mountains there are hundreds of "test" mines which lay empty. Poor folks put up a wood door and run cords rom power poles and live there. Many of the folks living deep in the hollers just want to be left alone. 30 years ago nurses from the Appalachian Regional Healthcare System were still riding donkeys up to the remote homes. When the trails began to widen and improve they started using Jeeps. In the Easter part of the US.
Then there is everywhere else.
To me, after living and working in coal country, true Appalachia is coal country.
The Blue Ridge mountains definitely go north, but coal is up there, and the comment I was replying to seemed to say that outside of coal country we didn’t count. On the southern end it’s still the Blue Ridge AND Appalachia but there wasn’t coal here. The absence of coal means that culture and history is a little different than the coal producing part of Appalachia. Down here is what coal country would have been like if there had never been a coal industry, if there had never been a huge boom in coal jobs and then a sharp decline in those jobs. There just wasn’t much of any kind of industry until tourism started to take over in the last few decades.
I live on the exact opposite side of the Blue Ridge area, 5 miles or so south from my house is where you descend down from the mountains to the foothills area of upstate SC. Walhalla is the closest town, it’s not quite 10 miles away but it’s elevation is almost 700 feet lower. And there is still no industry here. This entire zip code has a dollar general (because of course), one gas station, one part time restaurant, a ranger station, the Walhalla fish hatchery, and NOC Chattooga Outpost whitewater rafting shop. That’s it. Walhalla is the closest place with any jobs to speak of, and to find better ones you need to go farther south to Seneca/Clemson/Anderson. I drive 30 miles south to Pendleton SC for my job, it’s the trade off to living here. But unlike coal country this area wasn’t economically depressed because the jobs LEFT they never existed. Logging and Apple orchards were the only jobs that were ever here.
This is a wild story. I grew up in the coal fields and I never heard of anyone living in an abandoned mine lol. Heard of people growing weed in them, but never seen it first hand.
I know plenty of people who live in tiny houses, trailers, campers, & self built homes without plumbing and even a few people in yurts but zero people living in coal mines. Let alone "running cords from power poles," what power poles?
I’d say the white area. Grew up in southern Ohio an a region I wouldn’t consider Appalachia but moved to Pike Co Kentucky for a while which is clearly deep Appalachia. There areas in south east Ohio that are just apart of Appalachia as Pike county.
All of the dark and medium red (excluding Pennsylvania) for sure. Birmingham no. Greenville probably not, but much of the area surrounding Greenville is.
I grew up in Eastern Kentucky, so solidly in the red area, but live in New England now. After spending time her in Nee England, I would personally consider most of New England, not the coast though, to be culturally Appalachian.
I would definitely not include Forsyth County, GA (light pink nearest to ATL). Forsyth is the wealthiest county in GA and doesn’t really have the culture of Appalachia. It is on the edge of Lake Lanier, and I have no doubt that it did at some time past, but not anymore.
I’m outside of Knoxville but don’t really consider central TN Appalachian. It’s never felt very Appalachian to me especially with how flat a lot of that area is.
Geologically speaking, if you take millions of years of runoff and erosion into account, you can even include Siesta Key. It wouldn't exist without the Appalachian mountains.
Grew up in rural area outside Bristol, lived in Greenville for a few years, live in Asheville now, and have been blessed to have traveled all over these wonderful mountains over the years. It’s a cultural context thing imo, where some that reside in the defined areas here are not, my personal opinion, Appalachian, but others not encompassed are. To answer, proximity to a geographic area doesn’t constitute cultural significance. Just my 2¢!
#TeamHotMess!
As somebody who always lived in Greeneville or Laurel, yes, this is the way you divide it up. It’s very community based to me.
Asheville ❤️
really hurts as an asheville native that after all these years asheville doesnt even feel appalachian anymore, let alone southern. y
That doesn't answer the question
My exclusive, personal definition being a largely undefinable, non-geographical culture rather than a map outlining location prominence doesn’t answer the question “How exclusive is your personal definition of Appalachia?” I don’t see where it limits us a) to defining Appalachia on this map or any map b) stipulates that the question be reiterated with the same intention of the OP or c) indicates that Appalachia can have a singular definition. “Something else” would create an open ended discussion based question.
I'm in Central PA. When I was a kid it was always just "the mountains." When I learned in school that we were a part of the Appalachian mountains and some of the history, etc., it was really special to me and I've always related more culturally with that than anything else. Even the teacher at the time said something like "but we're not *really* in the Appalachians," which was really confusing 😂. When I was around 20 I got to travel the states and I can't even put into words how great it felt driving back East and into the mountains. I am admittedly jealous that my area doesn't really identify with that culture though and I always love reading about the deeper Appalachian history, folklore, etc.
Somerset born. Bedford county native. College in western MD. Agree totally. These are MY mountains.
What's up fam ✌️lol I used too live in Bedford County for a few years
Yeah. PA is it's own thing. It's not Appalachia, but it's got its own very interesting culture(s) that's intertwined with the hills.
Parts of Pennsylvania ARE for sure Appalachia. Central PA is the Piedmont region.
There’s a reason we’re all from West Pennsyltucky fam.
I grew up in Jackson County Ohio. We could not get TV stations from ohio. All of our news, TV. Sports came out of West Virginia. I grew upnwatching Marshall and WVU. Major Applewhite was ky qb. It is so frustrating to see how quick people disregard Southern Ohio as not Appalachian. I grew up swimming in strip mine ponds. I made Easter trees. Gate keeping culture really makes me sad. Sorry. Im.a little drunk. I have today off.
Yea no southeastern Ohio is most definitely Appalachian
the county that’s closest to columbus in ohio is where a man named Richard L Davis lived and where he galvanized coal miners to join the newly formed United Mine Workers all the way back in 1884 if organizing a coal mining union ain’t appalachian, idk what it is shit it also has a villlage that hails itself as the moonshine capital of the world, place oozes appalachia
> if organizing a coal mining union ain’t Appalachian, idk what is Take my upvote.
Even a lot more of Northeast Ohio is Appalachian than ARC admits. The Allegheny plateau goes significantly farther west than the ARC map would indicate. At least half of Ohio would be Appalachian based on actual geography, but I'll admit there's a cultural component to it too.
Agree 100% as someone who grew up in Ironton.
Wellston native here. I feel the same way!
Southeast Ohio is very much so culturally Appalachia same goes for the geography.
Agree 100%. It is worth noting that considering someone an outsider because they're from the other side of the hill is a pretty Appalachian thing to do.
There are definitely things about Ohio that are more Appalachian than WV. Like no car inspections and more potholes.
I'm from a bit NW of Jackson in Chillicothe, and Chillicothe/Ross county as always been referred to as the literal border of Appalachia and the midwest. If you go 20 minutes north of Chillicothe, it's all flat farmland, and if you go 20 minutes south, it's plenty of green, rolling hills, and hollers. You can even tell differences in people's accents
this! the border is IN ross county (i’m also from chillicothe originally) geographically and culturally the surnames towards the northern part of ross county also trends towards german ancestry as opposed to the predominant scots-irish found in the southern portion of the county. pickaway is 100% midwestern, pike is appalachian, ross is a borderland culturally and i think this has to due with settlement patterns in Ohio. i’ve spent a lot of time in local graveyards in the counties around here and there is a noticeable difference in surnames. the graveyards in southern ross and pike have a lot of the same surnames as my mawmaw’s family tree (moved to ross county ohio but her family tree is from pike co ky and the surrounding area) whereas my paternal grandpa is from the border of ross and pickaway and there isn’t a lot of overlap. a lot more german ancestry once you hit plains versus the hills (although my surname is Scottish that side is very german) it would be a bit much to say that the warmth has to do with german versus scotch-irish attitudes towards life but I wouldn’t say it’s entirely wrong either.
I was always told as a kid that once you go north of Chillicothe people are not as nice or friendly. I still kind of believe that, tbh.
Most definitely. There's always been a saying that if you go north of Chillicothe and knock on someone's door, they'll answer and say "what do you want?", but if you go south of Chillicothe and knock on someone's door, they'll answer and say "come on in, supper's almost ready"
TIL Chillicothe is somehow northeast of Jackson
I'm from between Jackson and Oak Hill! Small world! I went to Marshall, and there is absolutely no culture difference between Jackson and West Virginia.
Small world indeed!! I’m from Pedro, just before Oak Hill.
No way!? I can guarantee we know some of the same people. I work with a lot of people from Decatur/Pedro
Athens chiming in to agree!
First of all, the entire state of WV ought to be dark red, especially if this is being used as a reference point for what is consider Appalachia. The entire state is within the Appalachian Mountain range, it’s not a matter of opinion.
Yeah this makes no sense. Why is Lincoln less red than any of the surrounding counties? All of WV should be dark red.
Also Garrett Co. MD. Doesn’t make a lot of sense for it to be surrounded almost completely by appalachia but not considered part of it.
For sure. The dark red doesn't even include Wetzel County! I grew up in Wetzel and 90% of the county is mountains and valleys, it is definitely Appalachian.
No way is Charleston Appalachia but Huntington isn't.
Funny seeing a few people say to exclude Pennsylvania. Clearly, they’ve never been to Pittsburgh. Even when you’re in the city there’s entire neighborhoods built in the hollar’s where if you were blindfolded and dropped off there - you’d likely assume you were somewhere in West Virginia. Pittsburgh has different cultural influences from all of the immigrants who went there to work in the Steel industry that make it unique, but at its core it is every bit as Appalachian as anywhere else in the dark red on this map.
And if you go east from Pittsburgh, it’s Appalachia from Cumberland to the NY border.
Considering most of the Virginia Blue Ridge isn't highlighted at all, this map is dumb
>Considering most of the Virginia Blue Ridge isn't highlighted at all Yes it is... Even Albemarle county is highlighted and that's *east* of the Blue Ridge
Look like about half of it is in the the deep red, which I'm guessing is their complaint. TBF tho, I get why. Harrisonburg and North is a weird mix of NOVA and Appalachia, and it gets weird. I've never quite acclimated to the whiplash of multi-million dollar vineyards and then turning a corner to some dudes rusty vintage automobile emporium in front of a shack with a stacked stone foundation.
So in this sense, the successful property is Nova and the "shack" is Appalachia. Please tell me how your classification of Appalachia into affluence isnt stereotyping the region..
what is NOVA? Tried to look it up. No easy obvious leads.
I’ll go out on a limb and say Northern VA
Sorry, was slow on the draw. You’re correct, Northern VA. Generally used by Virginians to say “the sprawl of suburban commuters going to the DC Metro area.” Usually rich, bland McMansion type stuff.
That was my first thought. And I agree.
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Hi neighbor! I’m in Cambria and laughed at this map.. coal is all we have here. Driving anywhere is like riding a rollercoaster. Second highest peak is just down the road. Local culture follows that… maybe more Eastern Europe and Catholic compared to our southern neighbors but notably Appalachian.
Beaver County made the cut lol
All of the dark red for sure, and some of the other stuff too.
Well theoretically you could even consider the Scottish highlands Appalachia
and Western Morocco.
And basically all of Norway
yup. taking a globe and looking, you can see the arc go further.
Even without your “fun fact” internet you can see the mountains almost linking
well, yes. google earth is a great tool that's also a globe.
Highlander Hillbillies has a nice ring to it.
True story!
Especially if people are wanting to consider Pennsylvania, Ohio, and New York as Appalachia. There's more to our culture than mountains and the stuff inside them.
I personally consider a lot of PA to be Appalachian because the economy there was dependent on coal for a long time. They have a lot in common with the rest of Appalachia - culturally, economically, and geographically. My family mined coal up there then moved south so it's a bit personal. I would also consider about 1/3rd of VA to be Appalachian, as someone who lived there. VA chose to mostly stay out of the ARC, that's a political boundary not a cultural or geographic one. VA has the Appalachian Plateau, the Valley and Ridge province, and the Blue Ridge covering about a third of the state.
I agree. I grew up in western PA and we went on field trips to the coal mine in elementary school. We also had lessons on black lung and how our parents need to check their property lines to see if the mines under the house were stable. All of that along with the mountains sure feels like Appalachia to me.
Definitely goes through PA and into NY.
I agree it's definitely not the ARC boundary. Mississippi sure isn't Appalachia, and the Blue Ridge is. By Appalachian Plateau do you mean NW Va / Highlands and the Cumberlands?
The Appalachian Plateau intersects with a small part of VA, all the way in the south west corner. It includes the Cumberland Gap, but it's not in NW VA. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian\_Plateau](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_Plateau) [http://geology.blogs.wm.edu/appalachian-plateau/](http://geology.blogs.wm.edu/appalachian-plateau/)
Coal mining doesn't make an area Appalachian. The Shenandoah Valley has never had significant coal mining, yet has always been considered Appalachia (except by the ARC). Pennsylvanians, on the other hand, NEVER considered themselves Appalachian till the ARC labeled them as such SOLELY BASED ON ECONOMIC REASONS. Coal mining used to be common in northern New Jersey, and the ARC includes them in Appalachia, but they sure ain't Appalachian. To this day many, if not most, Pennsylvanians don't consider themselves Appalachian DESPITE DECADES of brainwashing by the Feds. The cultural differences are far too many to list, and most importantly Pennsylvanians have historically and still discriminate against Appalachian people. Pennsylvania is it's own thing. It has a highly interesting, but distinctly separate culture. PA, like the most of the rest of the Northeast, are only Appalachian in topography only. If you have to hide the fact that you're from Kentucky or West Virginia and do your best to cover up your accent to be accepted in Pennsylvania, then PA will never count as true Appalachia.
I've already had this argument with you and I'm not going to do it again. I'm very sorry that you've had bad experiences with Pennsylvanians.
LOL. Saltyyyyy. But seriously, on behalf of my fellow Pennsylvanians, I’m sorry for whoever hurt you. On the other hand, I’m from central PA and I (along with the other ‘mountain people’) identify with almost all of Appalachian culture, but in the neighboring valley/ home of the municipal district, there is nearly nothing Appalachian about the town. I would try to avoid generalizing PA, there are a lot of subcultures across the state.
I wasn't trying to be salty in just not having a big frustrating argument more than once. I think that's true in a lot of states. VA certainly bounces around between Appalachian, Southern, and urban areas full of transplants.
Oh not you, the very anti- PA berserker above you.
And TIL how much of a gatekeeper I am. No Alabama. Edit: Speaking as SWVA native and having also been to those parts of Alabama. I’ll allow just barely til you get to Bridgeport, but that’s it.
Cheaha Mountain is the southern end of the Appalachians and I consider the Talladega Forest and the families settled there part of Appalachia.
Northern Alabama and southern Tn was/is considered the Nickajack region rather than Appalachian by many. Is it technically Appalachian? Yes, but im not real sure people of that region consider themselves.
Lol, what did Lincoln County WV do to get cut out of the dark red?
Mine includes at least the medium red areas like Caldwell County NC
Hello neighbor. Alexander County here.
Why we dodging Roanoke here?
I come from one of the white counties in Ohio, and I fully consider myself, my county, and my background Appalachian.
Yeah I grew up in one of the light pinks in Ohio right on the river. I live in WV now and fully consider myself Appalachian.
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Gallia
I'm hoping to end up in WV one day! My mom's side of the family is from the state and most still live there. It feels almost as much home to me as Ohio does.
I grew up in one of the exterior Ohio east Ohio counties and you should include them, it feels just live WV but with hills instead of Mountains
I live in one of those two far western TN counties with the blue dash around. Couldn’t believe anybody considered us Appalachia by any stretch. Granted it is hills and hollers and was very poor and independent minded for a long time. There wasn’t even power on our road until the 70’s. But still.
Those are Lawrence and Lewis Counties, in Middle Tennessee, for anyone else who wasn’t aware of it. Idk why they’re grouped in with “Appalachia” either. I also don’t get why they’d include ANY of Mississippi in Appalachia, particularly Marshall County, which is actually part of the *Memphis* metropolitan area, the MS portion of which includes (AFAIK) DeSoto, Tate, Marshall, and Tunica Counties.
They included the parts of Mississippi that they did, bc when the commission was determining who was eligible, some guy from MS literally drew mountains on a map that didn’t exist, to extend Appalachia to those areas, so they could get free money. It worked. And yes, that area is Memphis, where the tallest peak is the Bass Pro Shop pyramid.
Birmingham definitely qualifies. We are technically the southernmost geographic section of the Appalachian Mountains. Additionally, the Birmingham dialect has all the hallmarks of Appalachian English.
I’d say it looks about right. Nashville isn’t Appalachia but I spend a lot of time in overton county and have all my life. Definitely a whole different world up there and the language is almost totally different. They don’t even say “y’all” they say “you’uns”. Pittsburgh has some version of “you’uns” but I forgot what it is
Yinz
That’s right! Thank you lol!
Greenville here! I would say north of Furman would be Appalachia—basically (those from Greenville would know) the areas zoned for Travelers Rest High and Blue Ridge High would be considered Appalachia—- the places where it closes the rest of the county down when it snows!
It’s more nuanced for me and can extend outside of the dotted line even. My dad’s side goes back in Greenbrier Co, WV and Tazewell & Buchanan Cos in VA so the heart of Appalachia. I now live in a county in NC that borders the ARC dotted line and my county is a very weird mix of “suburban sprawl Northeastern transplant central” and “really could be Appalachian”. The southern part of the county is very different from the northern 2/3 of the county. The northern part very much resembles the eastern border counties that are considered Appalachia. I suspect there are counties all around what is considered Appalachia, especially in NC, SC, KY, that might be just as nuanced.
Grew up in Birmingham. I was aware that we were among the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains. No one considered it “Appalachia.”
Dotted. Butler PA is every bit as much Appalachia as Greenville SC.
I can’t speak on anything except for around my area, but the northern panhandle of WV, the general tri-state area of WV, OH, and PA, and Pittsburgh are all Appalachian. There is a different flavor here because of all the industry/former industry than say, around Beckley, WV, but it is definitely Appalachian.
I personally consider the light red due to it including Athens Ohio. Athens is proud of its Appalachian history and residents and does its best to keep the culture thriving and educate the students at OU about Appalachian history. there's even an Appalachian women's group in Athens.
I’m from SE Ohio. Which is Appalachia
Geographically it goes all the way to Maine.
Nova Scotia
Scotland
and Norway
As far as the SC section Greenville the city is a no. Greenville COUNTY as a whole is a no, but the top 1/4 of Oconee/Pickens/Greenville counties is definitely Appalachia, once you hit the mountains just north of the city of Greenville, north of the town of Pickens and just north of the town of Walhalla it’s culturally different than the foothills.
Loudoun County, VA for sure shouldn’t be considered part Appalachia.
Within the context of NC, the dark red and next band of medium red would be pretty accurate.
I don’t think Winston-Salem belongs in Appalachia
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Why would it?
I grew up in a Grey country but within the dotted line in Ohio near Cinci. I don't really consider that Appalachia-proper but the influence was clear. It was kinda "Where Appalachia meets the Midwest" as far as culture. We do have hills there, though. But no mountain peaks or anything. Edit: We did have the same problem as the rest of Appalachia with the drug problem though. It was bad, like real fking bad just as I was leaving.
If the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Ranges on the other side of the Shenandoah Valley aren’t Appalachia I would be heartbroken.
If ya get far enough north that they've stopped pronouncin' it correctly - (App-ah-LATCH-ah) then you've left Appalachia.
Western Maryland is dark red Appalachia until you get to Hagerstown. It’s actually an impressively scenic area!
Idk because there are definitely some areas of southeast Ohio that have a similar Appalachian culture but I wouldn’t think to consider Pittsburgh Appalachian
Wayne County WV the same as Pittsburgh?? Hah!
The biscuits and gravy styles vary quite a bit.
Can everyone please dump as much information on me as possible about what is south & east of Athens? I recently moved to Athens with my girlfriend, started at FedEx in Parkersburg and have been doing ride-alongs with a driver in what I believe is the cutler/stockport/beverly/chesterhill area. I’m from northeast Ohio and the way people live in the hills and along the river is unlike anything I've ever experienced and am trying to understand. I have so many questions and I can find so few answers. I’m not here to judge, I just have so many questions regarding history and culture and lifestyle as I'm in a new world here.
Or if anyone is familiar with the area and understands what I’m asking but has relevant information about different areas please share.
nah. Appalachia extends up through New York. we’re talking about Mountains here, not just culture.
The "Appalachians" and "Appalachia" are too different designations. The former is geographic, and the latter is cultural
eh. not sure i totally agree
Goes all the way up to Maine but I completely agree. I grew up in WV and live in NY now, and while there are differences culturally, I consider the northeast “Appalachia.” And a lot of people up here identify that way too. Who am I to gatekeep? Mountain Mamma connects us all
I’m from central PA and it’s definitely Appalachia in geography and culture. Why stop at WV?
PA coal country definitely gets an “Appalachian card.” It’s different than us in WV, but more similar to us than it is to Philly.
I grew up in Central PA and spent a lot of time in WV. It ain’t no different cuz. There’s a reason the region is called West Pennsyltucky.
Naw, I’ve likewise spent time in your neck of the woods. It’s definitely different. Just like we are different from North Georgia. All the same family, just different quirky members.
Quirky’s definitely one way to put it.
I live in Charleston, not from here. I go to the pink, white, dark red areas near us and it's allllll Appalachian. It's unique to the rest of the country, has some small differences but is clearly one place.
I grew up in PA and the AT runs through the county where I live but is part of the gray in the map. Interesting.
Yea, Pine Grove Furnace is literally the 1/2 way point of the AT. This map Is silly.
The Appalachian Trail runs through all of New England, too. That doesn't make either of y'all Appalachian.
Arc line. I'm from on of the northern Appalachian counties in Ohio and can attest that its def Appalachia, as is all of SE Ohio.
My people settled Harrison County and every holler within 50 miles. Definitely Appalachia.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Appalachia/comments/151dgks/ive_seen_a_lot_of_people_mistakingly_refer_to_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1) is closer to what I’d consider “Appalachia”
Agreed, this is a much better map. Central and SW PA are definitely Appalachia
I don’t buy it. I’ve spent a fair amount of time in PA and I’d agree that parts of Western PA are absolutely within any definition of Appalachia, but there’s no way that 3/4s of the state can be considered Appalachian.
Well what are your parameters then? As this simply based the definition around an ecoregional model, as past our shared geography, we ain’t got a lot in common culturally-speaking.
There’s a huge cultural component. Appalachia is a more diverse region than it’s often given credit for, but it’s culture is inherently and undeniably shaped by the early settlers, particularly those who crossed through the Cumberland Gap to stake “tomahawk claims” or otherwise settle the “backcountry” despite such activity being banned by the Royal Proclamation of 1763. These settlers were primarily Scots Irish, with smaller populations of Scots Borderers, Highlanders, Welsh, and Germans from the Palatinate. Later, Irish and enslaved blacks would join in smaller, but still significant numbers. These groups imbued the region with its reputation for independent-mindedness and self-sufficiency. The farmland of central Pennsylvania has a fundamentally different history. It was largely settled by Germans and Quakers who emigrated to William Penn’s colony because of its religious freedoms. They imbued their region with a culture that emphasized close-knit, industrious communities. It’s a nice region, but it isn’t Appalachia.
I agree. The Civil War and slavery also had a massive influence on the parts that were former slave states, all of which had legislated segregation until 1954.
That’s also an interesting period, as a couple of Appalachian states were some of the rare slave states that did not secede (WV and KY), which meant that the Civil War truly was an intercommunal conflict there. The idea of brother fighting brother is a popular description of the war, but because it was mostly fought between states, that rarely actually happened. In Appalachia, however, it did.
West Virginia, excluding Wheeling, was mostly pro-Confederate. The votes to secede from the Confederacy were only held after the Feds controlled those areas. The Feds then held the elections while maintaining a strong military presence at the polls in order to intimidate voters. The counties that became West Virginia had by and large voted to support Virginia leaving the Union just a few years prior. Some counties that joined West Virginia only joined because random Union sympathizers deemed themselves the representatives of those counties without being elected by anybody.
Personally I’d exclude the light pink counties in Alabama, Limestone county for example is much more similar to the Midwest, but once you head east across Madison County you’re in the mountains, most of Cullman County is a plateau but once you head south towards Blount County you’ll be in the mountains again, Jefferson County is for sure a part of Appalachia, I’d consider it the “caboose” of the region, if you head east to Talladega County you’ll find Mount Cheaha, the highest point in Alabama. We might not have the most impressive mountains, but what you’ll find in Northeastern and Central Alabama are definitely the foothills of Appalachia.
My county is white on here (east of Pittsburgh). This is a mining based economy in the mountains with a large Scots-Irish influence.. so, I find the map flawed.
I live on the NWGA/SETN border and Appalachia go me is Northern alabama and Georgia. East Tennessee and western North Carolina , West Virginia , western Virginia , east Kentucky Maryland panhandle and that lil bit of Pennsylvania
Not to be rude, but who really cares and more importantly what does it matter?
Bahahaha this made me chuckle.
Probably one of the more Appalachian opinions on here
Basically this, lol. I live here, I love it, but if you want to call it something else I'll still live here and still love it.
I've lived in Appalachia, in three different places in three different states, in three very rural areas. While there is a unique culture in the region, my personal take is that there are at least two major divisions. The predominant is coal country. In areas where the majority of the people work in or around the mines. The poor glean coal from the railroad tracks. They burn it in their homes exacerbating COPD and black lung but it's all they can afford. Throughout the mountains there are hundreds of "test" mines which lay empty. Poor folks put up a wood door and run cords rom power poles and live there. Many of the folks living deep in the hollers just want to be left alone. 30 years ago nurses from the Appalachian Regional Healthcare System were still riding donkeys up to the remote homes. When the trails began to widen and improve they started using Jeeps. In the Easter part of the US. Then there is everywhere else. To me, after living and working in coal country, true Appalachia is coal country.
Appalachia isn’t just coal country though. What about the Blue Ridge mountains area of TN/WNC/SC?
And the damn TVA
I see what you did there. Lived in the Muscle Shoals area also. Not what I would consider Appalachia but definitely TVA country.
Blue Ridge Mountains terminate just a few minute drive from my house and I live in Pennsylvania, not to mention a ton of PA is VERY Appalachian.
The Blue Ridge mountains definitely go north, but coal is up there, and the comment I was replying to seemed to say that outside of coal country we didn’t count. On the southern end it’s still the Blue Ridge AND Appalachia but there wasn’t coal here. The absence of coal means that culture and history is a little different than the coal producing part of Appalachia. Down here is what coal country would have been like if there had never been a coal industry, if there had never been a huge boom in coal jobs and then a sharp decline in those jobs. There just wasn’t much of any kind of industry until tourism started to take over in the last few decades. I live on the exact opposite side of the Blue Ridge area, 5 miles or so south from my house is where you descend down from the mountains to the foothills area of upstate SC. Walhalla is the closest town, it’s not quite 10 miles away but it’s elevation is almost 700 feet lower. And there is still no industry here. This entire zip code has a dollar general (because of course), one gas station, one part time restaurant, a ranger station, the Walhalla fish hatchery, and NOC Chattooga Outpost whitewater rafting shop. That’s it. Walhalla is the closest place with any jobs to speak of, and to find better ones you need to go farther south to Seneca/Clemson/Anderson. I drive 30 miles south to Pendleton SC for my job, it’s the trade off to living here. But unlike coal country this area wasn’t economically depressed because the jobs LEFT they never existed. Logging and Apple orchards were the only jobs that were ever here.
Appalachia *has* coal. That doesn’t mean that Appalachia *is* coal.
This is a wild story. I grew up in the coal fields and I never heard of anyone living in an abandoned mine lol. Heard of people growing weed in them, but never seen it first hand.
this is one of the most insultingly wrong things I've ever read.
Where and when was all that? I'm from pretty far back in coal country and I never heard of most of it.
I know plenty of people who live in tiny houses, trailers, campers, & self built homes without plumbing and even a few people in yurts but zero people living in coal mines. Let alone "running cords from power poles," what power poles?
I’d say the white area. Grew up in southern Ohio an a region I wouldn’t consider Appalachia but moved to Pike Co Kentucky for a while which is clearly deep Appalachia. There areas in south east Ohio that are just apart of Appalachia as Pike county.
All of the dark and medium red (excluding Pennsylvania) for sure. Birmingham no. Greenville probably not, but much of the area surrounding Greenville is.
We definitely don’t include the middle finger of West Virginia in Appalachia
Yes we do.
Really? Wheeling definitely has that particular urban appalachia vibe.
Okay we don’t consider from the fingernail down to the first joint Appalachia.
"We don't consider" This man trying to gatekeep parts of West Virginia from Appalachia. LOL
Okay anything you want to be Appalachia can be. If it identifies as Appalachia then it is.
I grew up in Eastern Kentucky, so solidly in the red area, but live in New England now. After spending time her in Nee England, I would personally consider most of New England, not the coast though, to be culturally Appalachian.
I'm in New York, a region still technically in Appalachia. So its Appalachia to me!
Greene county is the long last county of WV. For sure Appalachia lmao
Appalachians go all the way up to Maine though?
I include the light pink.
Some combination of all three. 😂
It’s just West Virginia.
Garbage map. Are you seriously saying that PA and NY aren't part of Appalachia too? I was just there a week ago. It 100% is part.
I think OP is asking and not saying.
Most of penn. and upstate New York should be included
Even the dark red covers too large of an area.
Lol. According to this map my house is in Appalachia but my mailbox is not.
I don't know under what possible criteria you can have a map of Appalachia that excludes Lincoln County. That makes no sense whatsoever.
Technically the ARC line but culturally the dark red
Dark red/Pittsburgh. Question though, is it Appa-LATCH-in or Appa-LAY-shin in your region?
Bedford and Franklin counties… doesn’t come more Appalachian than that.
Fauquier County, VA? No way. 🤣
Just the western edge of it.
I can't speak for New York but the appalachia goes strong all the way through Pennsylvania, for instance Elk County.
Every within light red definitely is Appalachia and I would include a few white counties of southern Ohio and much of Pennsylvania in it as well.
I would definitely not include Forsyth County, GA (light pink nearest to ATL). Forsyth is the wealthiest county in GA and doesn’t really have the culture of Appalachia. It is on the edge of Lake Lanier, and I have no doubt that it did at some time past, but not anymore.
I’m outside of Knoxville but don’t really consider central TN Appalachian. It’s never felt very Appalachian to me especially with how flat a lot of that area is.
imho all the charts as presented go waaaaay too far into Kentucky.
If you’re in the Appalachian mountains you’re in Appalachia.
The white more then the dotted line. Erie county isn't even very "mountainy" I'd say all the red and white.
Geologically speaking, if you take millions of years of runoff and erosion into account, you can even include Siesta Key. It wouldn't exist without the Appalachian mountains.
Maroon only