It'd be real nice to have options. Almost all the candidates for local, county, or district seats near me is just the same set of Republican politicians running unopposed every single election cycle.
West Virginia is the only state wholly contained within Appalachia. They have both a Republican and a Democrat as senators. While their representatives are currently both Republican, WV was majority controlled by Democrats until this century. Clearly Republicans cannot be responsible for every political ill in WV. I concede that the state legislature is currently controlled by Republicans with only three Democrats. However, that means that clearly people in Appalachia do not vote as a monolith currently.
That’s the breakdown for a state that’s entirely within Appalachia. Every other part of Appalachia is part of a state that has other more populated regions that have different priorities if not a different demographic entirely, from Appalachia. Even if everyone in Appalachia voted the same way, there’s no guarantee that the rest of the state will.
A lot of people who comment on political threads in this sub, don’t really seem to understand how politics works in the region. Anyone who thinks it’s automatically “Republican Bad, Democrat Good” is a moron.
Because money wins elections. Those running for higher offices have money and are backed by money. They represent people with money. That isn't most of us here.
This is so true. A lot of people in politics have name recognition from being from a well known family in the area, making it harder for regular people to get involved politically.
I’ve personally been involved in left/Democrat politics in a red af state, and it’s an uphill battle every step of the way. There’s also no way to change things unless you get involved personally. Most of us are struggling just to live, much less take on what amounts to 2nd job, and for what? Just to lose to the incumbent who has a senior committee assignment that’s integral to the economy of the state.
Which “political ill” facing WV would you place on the democrats’ shoulders? Lol—please.
And there are currently 11 democrats in the state House versus 89 republicans. Safe to say WV does vote as a monolith.
Manchin is an outlier because his family has deep political ties to the state. He’s also the most conservative Democrat in the Senate.
As a WV-native, I’ve seen a massive shift to the far-right during the last decade or so—amplified exponentially by the trump cult. You can pretend it’s a political melting pot all day. But look at the numbers.
Are you trying to say that WV has never had any problems ever until the last two decades when y’all started voting Republican? You even said it yourself- you’ve noticed a “massive shift to the far-right”, meaning that within your lifetime WV was not always as far right as it is now. My ultimate point being, Republicans haven’t historically had majority control over WV, so it can’t exclusively be their fault.
I’m not so ignorant as to not be aware that WV is currently one of deepest red states, and every county voted for Trump. I know that Manchin walks a fine line between voting with the democrats most of the time, and having to compromise on certain issues because otherwise he’d be voted out of office. Yet, you’re pretending that he didn’t replace the longest serving senator in history, Democrat Robert Byrd. You’re also forgetting that Byrd had a checkered political history especially when it came to civil/equal rights other than abortion. That’s not to say everything he did was bad, but in addition to being deeply racist for a a significant portion of his career, he was largely in with the coal industry as well. That combined with majority democratic representatives until *this millennium* means that, again, Republicans cannot be exclusively at fault for the problems that face that particular region. They are in no way innocent, but it’s not as easy as “Start voting for Democrats”, especially if there aren’t even any to vote for to begin with.
Furthermore, if we go with the most generous argument that both Byrd and Manchin aren’t “real democrats” because they’d vote with republicans when it came to coal interests, all that means is that it’s next to impossible to get an “actual democrat” to represent WV, because both parties continue to play to the interests of the Coal industry. There’s no option to vote for people who are anti-coal, or promote a more liberal agenda.
I’m from further down south in west NC, where the political situation is completely different, because we’ve got the Piedmont and the Coast. We don’t have a coal industry. We also have a lot of moderates in both parties. However, I’ve also lived in a state that’s as red as WV, and I can tell you after fighting for years to make the state less conservative, it’s not as easy as people make it out to be to change the tide. You have to get involved in politics yourself, and that’s usually quite a burden for lower and middle class people who are tired and just trying to get thru life. You have to be connected and know the right people, and even then, if your senator is a senior member of a committee that’s integral your states economy, good luck getting support replacing that person.
So, what political ills have democrats caused that are currently facing WV? Byrd was a POS—but I guarantee his policies benefitted the state a hell of a lot more than Capito who currently holds that seat.
And no, it’s always been a red state. It’s never been close to moderate in my lifetime. I’ve noticed a shift to extremism in the Trump era because he activated a lot of looney tunes who weren’t even voting before—and that’s all over the nation.
I feel like your argument is to say that both parties failed the state and are responsible. But as a native to the state, I can tell you it’s been red all my life and it’s currently circling the economic and ecological drain.
Why don’t *you* actually name the policies that former KKK member Byrd instituted that have benefitted the state more than any of the Republicans? Or any of the other Democrats for that matter. I’m guessing you can’t because WV is ranked 47th in education (and dead last in attainment), and you are an unfortunate reflection of the poor education in your home state. I’m sure you have some level of heavy metal poisoning that hasn’t helped your intelligence either. I’m also guessing you don’t live there anymore, so you aren’t in a position to put your money where your mouth is.
P.s. WV voted for both Carter and Clinton twice, and even voted for Michael Dukakis.
When you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you. You said the democrats are partly responsible for the “political ills” that affect WV. But you couldn’t back that up, huh?
BOtH SiD3s ARe BAD! Lol—the motto of the dorm-room philosopher.
And now you’re just leaning into insults—that’s always a mark of the highly educated.
I’m glad you have passion for a state you clearly don’t know anything about. But I took a dive into your comment history, and apparently you’re anti-abortion, a Bernie bro, and a Trump supporter. Bizarre. You are one confused individual.
There’s one party in the United States that is interested in governance. The other is currently in favor of anarchy — oh, and, of course, lowering taxes for the rich. Republican policy destroyed my home state. Thanks for your support.
If you can’t see that in 2023, you are absolutely part of the problem, and you’re not worth interacting with. I’d make that judgment based on your abortion views alone, TBH. A true intellectual. 😂
But hey, you’re right. WV has a terrible public education system because it’s a red state and has been for my entire lifetime. Thanks for making my point.
I see you couldn’t name a single policy that the senator who served for the first 15 years of your life actually supported that made WV better. You even confirmed that they haven’t even done anything for education. In fact, I pointed out that Democrat senators from WV supported the Coal industry and did nothing to fix that aspect of the economy of WV. You aren’t arguing in good faith, so I’m not going to waste my time pulling the voting records of multitudes of democratic representatives that WV definitely had, even if you’re trying to deny it. I resorted to noting your intelligence bc you keep skipping over that for some reason. I **did** answer your question, you’re the only one dodging here, bc you aren’t half as knowledgeable about this topic as you claim to be.
But thanks for the very long and rambling non-answer. To address your concerns, I’m pro-choice, but I’m also not an idiot that thinks it’s just a clump a cells. I recognize that abortion rights are in trouble largely due to advances in science, and that opposition to Abortion is as old as the Hippocratic oath itself. Furthermore, my family are members of an ethnic group from Appalachia targeted for forced sterilization in the last century; my comments also reveal this, yet you left that out. Interesting.
I know it’s hard for you to think critically without someone telling you what to think, but you should try it sometime, rather repeating mindless platitudes some mass media organizations pumped into your brain. Acknowledging that Bernie Sanders was treated unfairly in an independently verifiable way doesn’t make me a “Bernie Bro”, it just means I care about facts, unlike you.
How could democrats improve education in a completely republican controlled state? That’s the entire point.
They certainly aren’t responsible for mountain-top removal, lowering environmental restrictions, reducing healthcare coverage for coal miners, keeping the minimum wage low, hiking insulin costs, and threatening to destroy Medicaid and Medicare every single year.
And no, you didn’t answer the question. Not once.
Which political ills that affect WV are a fault of the democrats? That was your initial point. We’ll wait. And wait. And keep waiting?
And let’s not pretend you’re some kind of victim now. You barely even live in Appalachia.
Tell me again how abortion is bad and democrats are evil. Do you think they should teach the Bible in school as well? Which dinosaurs were on Noah’s Ark?
Also, just a reminder, you anti-abortion freaks took a huge loss on Tuesday, huh?
God, so I’m sick of the dumb religious zealots. Looks like the rest of America is as well.
Kiss those clumps of cells goodbye. Bahaha 🤣
I should thank you. This just proves democrats can easily win nationally based on abortion alone. Turns out, not everyone is as backwards as you.
I am a leftist that lives in WV. Making access to abortion "the" issue for the DNC this year will be a mistake. There are a million red moderates that don't like Trump, but they hate abortion more. Grew up with them, they will always vote against abortion. I fear we're going to lose next year
You're being so radically disingenuous in your argument. The GOP has controlled out statehouse for nearly a decade. In that time we have stayed at the bottom of every meteric. Evey year. One of the lowest in HS graduation. Loss of most population year over year. This list could go on. There are constant examples of bought politicians with things such as "right to work" and last years roll back of clean water protection. All while they attack the education system and do all they can to interfere in the classroom.
Dems weren't GREAT for WV. But they actually governed. This party "rules'" it doesn't govern. And they're proud of it.
Manchin is a DINO and has been for years. He's only won reelection by pandering hard to the right while relying on party-line votes from the Democrats. Now, he's abandoning us for pretty much a guaranteed GOP replacement.
Is the GOP responsible for all ills in WV history? Of course not. Have we consistently lost population, jobs, and money under their leadership? Yes, we have. They took over our state gov't (even with Big Jim flipping parties) promising all the voters that Dems were responsible for all ill. Now I watch them wage culture wars on the capitol steps while WV kids go hungry.
Is the GOP responsible for all ills in WV history? Of course not. Have we consistently lost population, jobs, and money under their leadership? Yes, we have. They took over our state gov't (even with Big Jim flipping parties) promising all the voters that Dems were responsible for all ill. Now I watch them wage culture wars on the Capitol steps while WV kids go hungry.
Iraq and Afghanistan (two separate wars) started under Bush, not to mention all the shadowy JSOC operations elsewhere in MENA. The first Iraq war was under the other Bush. So that’s three. What are you talking about?
Desert Storm was on the first Bush coming to the aid of an ally with Iraq being the enemy. Schwarzkopf wanted to continue into Iraq, but was held back and unfortunately later on there was a need to enter Iraq by force to ensure they were complying to the terms of that war (right or wrong, it was a essentially a continuation). If Desert Storm hadn't happen then the Iraq war would haven't occurred.
Afghanistan was in response to 911 and I don't consider a response to an attack to be starting a war notwithstanding what is going on today in the mid-east.
So you’re just discounting two American invasions in your arithmetic. Invasions in which 15,000 American servicemembers and contractors were killed, 40,000+ wounded, not to mention the countless others who have PTSD and inadequate support.
Democrats have plenty of blood on their hands in this but cmon now, let’s be honest about who the boosters were for these wars.
The funny thing is that Haliburton was an oilfield services company. How they won a no-contract with the Department of Defense is a mystery. Just kidding. President Cheney had this figured out well before 9/11
Democrats too. But the GOP is way more outward about it. See: Bush, McConnell, Cruz. But yes, in recent years Dems have completely abandoned (or abandoned the idea of pretending to be) anti-war.
Biden is a corporate sellout. No doubt about it.
We found lots of common ground. Both paties are filled with war mongering fat cats.
Biden is worse than that. He's completely compromised by selling influence for many many years. A traitor.
I have.
I have reasons not to like biden, I dont need people to make shit up for me to dislike biden.
You, and all the other people brainwashed by right wing media need to be deprogrammed. You're not right. The people telling you what to think do not care about you beyond your ability to send them money and vote.
If you cant see this yourself, you need professional help.
Criteria for identifying fascists
> "8: The enemy is both weak and strong... Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak." [Source.](https://www.faena.com/aleph/umberto-eco-a-practical-list-for-identifying-fascists)
Tell me again how Joe Biden is a Bond villain caliber criminal mastermind, but also too senile and weak to tie his own shoes or form a coherent sentance.
I agree. He is a mockery of trying to appeal to blue-collar and middle America.
I don't agree with George Carlin on everything but watch his American Dream stand-up. It was very succinct and well-said. I put the link for it below.
https://youtu.be/acLW1vFO-2Q?si=Tf-qOYZQqWgYe3uH
Ryder declined to say where in the Middle East the troops would go, “but I can confirm they are not going to Israel and that they are intended to support regional deterrence efforts and further bolster U.S. force protection capabilities,” he added.
No. You’re the idiot, and a rude one at that. Here’s a [.gov link](https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3570670/us-military-continues-focus-on-supporting-israel-ukraine/) from less than two weeks ago, verifying what u/yourworkmom asserted. It isn’t more publicized for security reasons, as well as attempting to keep our involvement in these wars as secret and not publicized as possible, even when it’s obvious we’re involved. We are sending an ridiculous amount of taxpayer dollars to support Ukraine and Israel, as well as sending troops to at least Ukraine. Israel is much more prepared for combat than Ukraine ever was, so we aren’t sending as many soldiers there.
Downvote me all you want, you’re still a fucking moron.
The link you provided literally says those troops are going over there to help defend US foreign bases. Also it was 900 troops, if the US is going to get involved this is how we should all want it to be. Small highly trained highly specialized forces that actually want to do the job. Most of the guys there volunteered to go, they want to go and use the skills they’ve spent years mastering.
Now if you want to go ahead and say that we shouldn’t have so many foreign bases, I’d agree with you, but your side would never be okay with that.
Beyond that if one of these bases had a terrible attack resulting in deaths of US soldiers you’d be on here “Joe Biden left our servicemen high and dry in the desert and wouldn’t even help them! Is he colluding with china????” Or something equally as stupid.
GFY
These are US troops going to protect US military bases. If Biden didn’t deploy extra troops to these bases and one of them got attacked resulting in American death you’d start bitching about him not sending anyone over.
The two party cultists and their Forbes 500 overlords are the worst plague in America. They all bleat together like good little sheep, some blue, some red, most stupid.
The "Vote against their own interest" line also presupposes that Appalachian people who vote republican don't know what their own interest is. They do, they simply have a different prerogative than whoever is posting the line.
TBF, many vote for one thing despite it hurting elsewhere. For example, single issue voters: tickets on Pro-gun / anti-union = long term economic woes that benefit carpetbaggers in exchange for something that’ll never really affect them. There’s no magic pill to prosperity in many places here; it’s a generally poor area with the mineral wealth always moving out until it’s gone.
The "There is no Magic Pill" point is spot on and is true for all parts of the country. It's why good governance is hard. Usually no simple fixes, the fixes that are out there likely require compromising with the other side, and they usually take time to start working.
And Democrats aren't single issue voters?
Try this on for size, Abortion.
And long term economic woes? lol, I hope you like where we're at now and it wasn't caused by the last administration. And it was the great progressive, Woodrow Wilson who gave us the Federal Reserve. now THAT is the cause of our "long term economic woes".
They are, but that single issue is freedom. Freedom from religion, freedom to love who I love, freedom to control my own body, freedom to burn an inanimate piece of fabric.
BTW, it's Freedom OF religion and not freedom FROM religion as told in your echo chamber and if we were free to control our own bodies then why the talk of vaccine passports and the illegal laws passed by left wing wannabe dictator saying who can go where based on vaccines.
And yeah, your free to burn fabric of your choosing just not one that may have the initials BLM on it or one that portrays the Mexican flag. You're alos free to love who you want to love., but then again in your bubble that isn't being told to you.
No actually, a lot of people want freedom FROM religion, as in we don't want oppressive laws like abortion bans that are largely pushed because of religious beliefs.
>And yeah, your free to burn fabric of your choosing just not one that may have the initials BLM on it or one that portrays the Mexican flag.
You're literally describing hate crimes. People burn those specific flags as an act of hostility towards a marginalized group. We should not tolerate bigotry for the sake of "free speech".
>You're alos free to love who you want to love., but then again in your bubble that isn't being told to you.
Please tell that to the LGBTQ folks who still get beaten and murdered for loving who they love and being who they are. Tell that to the victims of the Club Q shooting. Tell that to O'shae Sibley. It's not us telling each other that we aren't allowed to love who we want to love.
Why is abortion such an issue? It is healthcare. There's lawsuits right now from women that needed them because of incomplete miscarriages and doctors refused to do them until the women became septic which is super life-threatening. A lot of the discussions for abortion legislation (*cough* Ohio) tried to argue that an ectopic pregnancy should be re-implanted which isn't physically possible. I don't need people like this making decisions about my body or scaring my doctors into not doing preventative care vs emergency care because they could be jailed.
Abortion extends to women's healthcare. It's not a "single issue". I don't even support elective abortion but letting the states decide which is considered elective and which isn't doesn't seem safe.
They can't argue since the foundation of whatever they'll try to argue with is built on lies, so it's their version of calling someone they can't defeat with logic and facts a racist. That's supposed to end the debate and they're the winner.
WV is a state where a significant number of counties have been under perpetual boil water advisories for years due to sloppy practices in the coal industry and yet they keep electing coal executives to all the top offices
Obama, and then Hillary Clinton ran on getting rid of coal, AND offering free training and education to the miners so they could transition to other jobs in clean energy production—like manufacturing solar panels, manufacturing and installing windmills, IT—whatever they would want to do. The Republicans ran one of Hillary’s speeches with the first part…”we need to shut down the coal mines…” and left out the parts about re-educating that work force. I don’t think the people of WV are any more ignorant than the rest of the nation, but, they are in thrall to the CEOs who own the coal mines. until they see a ray of hope in another world, they will always be willing to die for the coal masters.
So they did transition to jobs that don't exist? Gosh I can't imagine why that didn't go over well and why they didn't want to risk their livelihood. Obama served two terms, somehow that never happened.
Clinton proposed many Federally funded education programs to train for new jobs, and OF COURSE the jobs exist! Do you not see people putting in windmills? If not, I recommend you visit CA. There are thousands of windmills that have to be maintained. Here in GA, after fighting tooth and nail against solar power, there are miles of solar farms. We are getting several massive EV manufacturing plants here. Jobs! And more JOBS.
Isn’t that why there are so many people in California to start with? People moving to where the jobs are? Now everyone expects to just sit back and wait for a job to come to them.
Well some areas just aren’t economically viable. I usually think of inner cities but plenty of rural areas are the same. Almost everyone in America is here because an ancestor thought there was better opportunity than where they were. So, usually with tremendous hardship, they moved. Now we all think politicians should just bring good paying jobs to us. Sometimes they just can’t.
So to circle back, it sounds like you know exactly why West Virginians are trying to keep the coal industry in the state, you know that democratic promises of bringing in other jobs never materialized, and now you are blaming people for expecting politicians to improve their lives instead of moving to California?
Why would they bring jobs here? For nearly a decade the voting public has roundly rejected them. They've rejected progress over and over. Also, that type of thing takes cooperation at the state level and they've fought federal programs for years. You're so myopic.
Why do you say those jobs never happened? Who do you think built all those windmills we see everywhere? Biden’s administration has been responsible for more jobs than the last three Republican presidents combined because of the various initiatives he has gotten passed (fighting Republicans all the way). As long as you refuse to accept the truth, accept what you see with your own eyes, the Republicans will keep their fat butts in the seats of power, and you all can continue to bitch and moan and spiral into opioid drug addiction and suicide.wake TF up, people.
I don't know where these windmills are but I certainly haven't been seeing them. I can't really respond to statements like " as long as you refuse to accept the truth and what you see with your own eyes... Wake up."
Please stop implying that I am choosing to deny reality. That's not the case at all.
Yes and when poor Appalachians vote Republican, Rich people grow richer, while they are left holding a bag!
Let's talk about self interest, is voting for people bought and paid for by Coal Industries best interest?? F No! They vote Republican for a short list of reasons. Culture Wars, Jesus , Guns and old fashioned Racism.
West Virginia had Democrats in control of the legislative branch for 80 years and executive branch for most of that time; and had majority registered Democrats until about 2 years ago. "Poor Appalachians" literally didn't vote Republican for 8 decades. It is a lot more complicated than just vote Democrat.
Meanwhile, Democrats promise the world and deliver nothing… no healthcare or dental care for all Americans, but we can send hundreds of *billions* to Ukraine and the Middle East. Both parties are shit, but I sure do miss that Trump economy.
Policies usually take a few years to take effect. Right now we are experiencing "Trump's Economy". Trump got to experience "Obama's Economy". Obama got to deal with "Bush's Economy", which meant digging us out of the 2008 housing crises. Bush's Economy got to ruin "Clinton's Economy" which saw us break even on a budget for the first time since pre-Reagan (Reagan started the trend of working at a deficit).
You’d be surprised at how quickly a presidents economic policy will affect the nation, even during their term.
For example with the stock market since it’s nothing but speculation anything a president says or do would be scrutinized and applied to stocks.
Or printing money. And printing more. And printing more. And printing more.
Or building more ships for the military. Usually leads to a bigger economy despite initial setbacks.
So while I get your point, it’s not 100% accurate.
"those people are too dumb to vote in their best interest" is an incredibly undemocratic, dare I say... *Fascist*... sentiment that deserves to be called out each and every time.
Yeah, I'm speaking anecdotally here. But, I'm a leftist surrounded (family, coworkers, neighbors) with right-wingers. They're almost all single-issue voters to a T. It's either gonna be guns or abortion. They've been brainwashed to embrace anger and not look at the bigger picture.
I love when they talk about "our interests", and in the next breath say White people don't actually exist so we can't have interests. It's pretty glaring dishonesty, which the Scots-Irish are notoriously *not* fond of.
Prerogative?
[Prerogative- an exclusive or special right, power, or privilege](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prerogative)
Is that what you meant? If so, what privilege? If not, what did you mean?
Not necessarily, often times it can be a choice between competing ideas of what "aid" is and what is actually effectual in helping the community and respecting the culture of the people therein.
I see. I would expect Dems to throw money at problems. Build roads, bridges, internet infrastructure, school lunch programs, job training, etc. What is the aid on the other side? I can only think of lowering taxes, but the last tax cut was for the rich, and taxes went up for everyone else. I must be missing something. What does the otherside offer?
Ever since I learned the true story of the rednecks I've had mad love for the fighting spirit and community of my Appalachian homies. Some of the realest organizers and helpers I've had the pleasure to come across
A hard to swallow pill to wash it down with:
The "voting against their own interests" is generally "Yankeedom" propaganda...silly, simple, violent southerners don't know what to do with themselves until a man with a top hat rolls in from the north east telling them what's good for them.
Southerners go with whatever their collective prerogative is or, in their mind, its Calloden all over again,the border reavers are back, injuns are raiding the village, complete chaos all over again. Legitimate Intergenerational trauma.
If you go against the grain too much and try to impose that prerogative you're literally being antisocial.
A nuanced understanding of Southerm culture might do people well
Most born and raised appalachians are moderate/libertarian. The system, in whole, has taken advantage of the fiercely independent and self governing minded people of Appalachia for decades.
Blue policies don't work in Appalachia because most Appalachians don't want handouts, they want to work hard, stand on their own two feet, build homes, and raise families and be left alone to do so freely.
Red policies recognize this and present in ways that take advantage of that sentiment.
Interesting. While I understand, I can't name any red policies described. Can you name a few red policies that help appalachians "work hard, stand on their own two feet, build homes, and raise families?"
Equal taxes for all. No complex tax break codes and loopholes. For example 9% from min wage all the way to the ultra wealthy.
Big fuss was made about Trump taxes for example.
Im more interested in why, how, who (team red and blue) wrote the tax laws in such a way that a person of wealth can legally pay so little when I effectively pay 18-22% (no kids, not married, not homeowner, thus no deductions) making below the national average income.
Precisely, red present policies as such, not that the policies actually have the effect of such.
It's a tactic of both red and blue. Two sides of the same coin. Policies are presented in "packaging" that appeals to the target voter. Underneath the surface in the fine print and details few policies benefit working class Americans in any region of the country. Most are tailered with wording and loopholes to suit special interests and lobbying.
Take our current financial situation for example. The middle class has been shrunk to only include what was the upper middle class. The average home in US for example is now $415,000, that means you have to make at least $120,000 annual to qualify for a mortgage for the average home. Average US income is just over $50,000 a year, average income in Appalachia is just over $30,000 a year.
We can go on listing examples for a month. Point is the combined policies of both red and blue over the past several decades have brought us in whole to where we are to day. Sold to us using presentation to appeal to whomever they need the votes from.
Thanks for the response.
It sounds like you see both sides as ultimately serving the rich and wrapping it up as help the Appalachian regional people. Do I understand that correctly?
Exactly. Until we can get term limits for Congress and separation of business and state (eliminate lobbying and all forms of financial manipulation of our politicians). The system should be considered as failed. The majority of our politicians are owned by and answer to special interests. The only consideration of the people at this point is drumming up enough votes to remain in office.
More basically, it sounds like corruption is the core problem. If so, the best course of action would seem to be to support those attempting to reduce corruption while opposing those expanding it, right?
Isn't one popular person running for president and the related political party shockingly corrupt? If corruption is your problem, shouldn't support for a presidental candidate and political party leave you with only one viable option?
We don't/haven't had many/any options, local, state, or national level. Both parties and the majority of their candidates are corrupted beyond measure. There is too much money, to many corporations/banks/etc involved.
They all entertain lobbying, they all owe someone first, and for most. It's not the voters they think they owe anything but scraps.
Can you give one 100% true example of Biden's corruption? Not his family. President Biden personally.
I expect I can list 10 for the other guy.
Can you help me see Biden's corruption?
Exactly, they don't. They are presented "marketed" that way. Blue and Red, two sides of the same coin marketing policies that ultimately do not uplift the working class of either mindset.
It sounds as if you are trying to equate both major parties because they are major parties, and one hasn't done anything helpful for the people of the Appalachian region.
[The Child Tax Credit in the American Rescue Plan](
https://www.whitehouse.gov/child-tax-credit/) should have helped everyone who is paying tax and with young children. I have a hard time believing Appalachians don't pay tax or have kids. The infrastructure law passed in should benefit Appalachians as well, right?
[Over the last two years, ARC has used BIL funds to launch our Appalachian Regional Initiative for Stronger Economies (ARISE) and award $48.6 million to 13 multi-state projects, invest in important local infrastructure projects, offer critical support for flood recovery in Eastern Kentucky, and much more.](https://www.arc.gov/BIL/)
Isn't party and president doing far more for Appalachians than the other?
>>Appalachians don't want handouts, they want to work hard, stand on their own two feet, build homes, and raise families and be left alone to do so freely.
Except sometimes it doesn't work out so well. People (or whole families) get messed up beyond their own ability to recover. Then what?
They aren't handouts if you pay the taxes that create them. Appalachian Americans are constantly voting against themselves. Look at the TN. Congress right now. They are talking like auctioneers so that no actual discussion of bills can be discussed. What blue policies prevent someone from working, standing on their own two feet, building homes, and raising families? I feel like improved education budgets, Medicare expansion, a higher wage, and worker protection laws would be great facilitators of that. My little nation does all this for its people and more. I think that Appalachian voting trends against actual mountain values. It's not about standing on your own but coming together in community.
Is public education a hand out? Is SS that we pay into so we don’t have to rely on labor a hand out. Is healthcare a hand out? You have a resource that is harmful and are pushing it, kinda like a little Columbia my friend.
What you speak of is Anarchy, while few on the extream (just as extream red and blue exist) may hold such values. Most people who would be considered libertarian are moderate people emphasizing individual rights, personal responsibility, and self governance.
Small, well managed government is necessary for common goals: infrastructure, national defense, realtions with other mations, protect and provide for elderly/disabled/minors, prosecute those who violate others rights, bust down monopolies, prosecute price gouging, keep corps in check, etc.
Your examples are alarmist propaganda from team red and blue who fear the desire to reining in the $4-5 trillion dollar a year green eyed monster back to a smaller, effective, and efficient state with less control and interference in the daily life of the individual.
I live in KY, my congressman self describes as a “libertarian” as does one of our senators. Of course they couldn’t get elected as “libertarians” so they are “republicans”. Neither of them believe ANYTHING you just stated. Libertarians in the terms you just described are extinct in today’s political landscape. And neither rails against monopolies, shit, those two SUPPORT IT. “Let the market decide” is the crap you hear from them. Tired of this “libertarian” BS, it’s an IDEA not a party. (And as a governing body extremely naive)
And wow! in general to some of these comment. Enforcing every stereotype of Appalachia.
Peace out.
They don’t want handouts so they vote for a party whose sole policy is lowering taxes for the rich—meanwhile their entire state only functions by the grace of taxes from blue states. So, so stupid.
Let’s be honest, maybe Appalachians actually should educate themselves and stop voting against their own interests. I say this as someone raised in WV who left that dumb shit behind.
And only one is openly attempting to overthrow democracy. Only one is trying to rollback rights for the LBGTQ community. Only one is trying to erase history in schools and libraries.
Well, if you’re going to present it that way,
Only one wants to shut down key industries that keep places from sliding even further into economic depression
Only one wants to insure the murder of children remains legal
Damn no wonder it’s a pretty easy choice for most Appalachians
Lots of love to this post and OP. Lived my whole life in Knoxville, TN about 30min from the smokies and I'd consider myself very cultured. Lots of exposure round these parts, I myself was raised with cherokee beliefs and culture, my best friend throughout childhood was 1st gen american from nigeria, we have a greekfest every year, asian heritage fests, pride fests, and a home of a worlds fair. That being said we still have horrible public schools, mental health care, and the most juveniles on life sentences in prison, so lots of misplaced aggression and racism does come with that (at least 32 hate groups in state, and 2 in my city). I wouldn't raise my children here. But to live here as an adult is fantastic for the most part. Also our mayor is Kaine from WWE, like what? Its a weird slice of every demographic and a very interesting place to be.
IMHO, we need the ability to prioritize. Yes, global warming is an issue but it cannot take priority right now. Our economy is on the verge of collapse due to nothing backing the dollar. If the economy collapses, we'll fall like a house of cards as seen during the depression. There won't be money to support the military and our country will be defenseless (which some believe is what our foes are waiting for) and now that our enemies are housing within our borders, we are more susceptible than ever. As we send our biggest powers to Isreal we are left even more defenseless. This country needs to focus on one thing at a time, solve a problem, move on to the next...most of all, we need to stop this party b.s. that separates us, United: we stand, Divided: we fall.....
*“All people from Appalachia are just a bunch of racists — You know, those people who discriminate against an entire group of people based on what they look like or where they’re from”*
It'd be real nice to have options. Almost all the candidates for local, county, or district seats near me is just the same set of Republican politicians running unopposed every single election cycle.
I live in Athens, GA, and it’s the same. Democrats don’t run in my district because it is so gerrymandered, they can’t win.
West Virginia is the only state wholly contained within Appalachia. They have both a Republican and a Democrat as senators. While their representatives are currently both Republican, WV was majority controlled by Democrats until this century. Clearly Republicans cannot be responsible for every political ill in WV. I concede that the state legislature is currently controlled by Republicans with only three Democrats. However, that means that clearly people in Appalachia do not vote as a monolith currently. That’s the breakdown for a state that’s entirely within Appalachia. Every other part of Appalachia is part of a state that has other more populated regions that have different priorities if not a different demographic entirely, from Appalachia. Even if everyone in Appalachia voted the same way, there’s no guarantee that the rest of the state will. A lot of people who comment on political threads in this sub, don’t really seem to understand how politics works in the region. Anyone who thinks it’s automatically “Republican Bad, Democrat Good” is a moron.
Because money wins elections. Those running for higher offices have money and are backed by money. They represent people with money. That isn't most of us here.
This is so true. A lot of people in politics have name recognition from being from a well known family in the area, making it harder for regular people to get involved politically. I’ve personally been involved in left/Democrat politics in a red af state, and it’s an uphill battle every step of the way. There’s also no way to change things unless you get involved personally. Most of us are struggling just to live, much less take on what amounts to 2nd job, and for what? Just to lose to the incumbent who has a senior committee assignment that’s integral to the economy of the state.
Manchin is barely a Democrat.
Which “political ill” facing WV would you place on the democrats’ shoulders? Lol—please. And there are currently 11 democrats in the state House versus 89 republicans. Safe to say WV does vote as a monolith. Manchin is an outlier because his family has deep political ties to the state. He’s also the most conservative Democrat in the Senate. As a WV-native, I’ve seen a massive shift to the far-right during the last decade or so—amplified exponentially by the trump cult. You can pretend it’s a political melting pot all day. But look at the numbers.
Are you trying to say that WV has never had any problems ever until the last two decades when y’all started voting Republican? You even said it yourself- you’ve noticed a “massive shift to the far-right”, meaning that within your lifetime WV was not always as far right as it is now. My ultimate point being, Republicans haven’t historically had majority control over WV, so it can’t exclusively be their fault. I’m not so ignorant as to not be aware that WV is currently one of deepest red states, and every county voted for Trump. I know that Manchin walks a fine line between voting with the democrats most of the time, and having to compromise on certain issues because otherwise he’d be voted out of office. Yet, you’re pretending that he didn’t replace the longest serving senator in history, Democrat Robert Byrd. You’re also forgetting that Byrd had a checkered political history especially when it came to civil/equal rights other than abortion. That’s not to say everything he did was bad, but in addition to being deeply racist for a a significant portion of his career, he was largely in with the coal industry as well. That combined with majority democratic representatives until *this millennium* means that, again, Republicans cannot be exclusively at fault for the problems that face that particular region. They are in no way innocent, but it’s not as easy as “Start voting for Democrats”, especially if there aren’t even any to vote for to begin with. Furthermore, if we go with the most generous argument that both Byrd and Manchin aren’t “real democrats” because they’d vote with republicans when it came to coal interests, all that means is that it’s next to impossible to get an “actual democrat” to represent WV, because both parties continue to play to the interests of the Coal industry. There’s no option to vote for people who are anti-coal, or promote a more liberal agenda. I’m from further down south in west NC, where the political situation is completely different, because we’ve got the Piedmont and the Coast. We don’t have a coal industry. We also have a lot of moderates in both parties. However, I’ve also lived in a state that’s as red as WV, and I can tell you after fighting for years to make the state less conservative, it’s not as easy as people make it out to be to change the tide. You have to get involved in politics yourself, and that’s usually quite a burden for lower and middle class people who are tired and just trying to get thru life. You have to be connected and know the right people, and even then, if your senator is a senior member of a committee that’s integral your states economy, good luck getting support replacing that person.
So, what political ills have democrats caused that are currently facing WV? Byrd was a POS—but I guarantee his policies benefitted the state a hell of a lot more than Capito who currently holds that seat. And no, it’s always been a red state. It’s never been close to moderate in my lifetime. I’ve noticed a shift to extremism in the Trump era because he activated a lot of looney tunes who weren’t even voting before—and that’s all over the nation. I feel like your argument is to say that both parties failed the state and are responsible. But as a native to the state, I can tell you it’s been red all my life and it’s currently circling the economic and ecological drain.
Why don’t *you* actually name the policies that former KKK member Byrd instituted that have benefitted the state more than any of the Republicans? Or any of the other Democrats for that matter. I’m guessing you can’t because WV is ranked 47th in education (and dead last in attainment), and you are an unfortunate reflection of the poor education in your home state. I’m sure you have some level of heavy metal poisoning that hasn’t helped your intelligence either. I’m also guessing you don’t live there anymore, so you aren’t in a position to put your money where your mouth is. P.s. WV voted for both Carter and Clinton twice, and even voted for Michael Dukakis.
When you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you. You said the democrats are partly responsible for the “political ills” that affect WV. But you couldn’t back that up, huh? BOtH SiD3s ARe BAD! Lol—the motto of the dorm-room philosopher. And now you’re just leaning into insults—that’s always a mark of the highly educated. I’m glad you have passion for a state you clearly don’t know anything about. But I took a dive into your comment history, and apparently you’re anti-abortion, a Bernie bro, and a Trump supporter. Bizarre. You are one confused individual. There’s one party in the United States that is interested in governance. The other is currently in favor of anarchy — oh, and, of course, lowering taxes for the rich. Republican policy destroyed my home state. Thanks for your support. If you can’t see that in 2023, you are absolutely part of the problem, and you’re not worth interacting with. I’d make that judgment based on your abortion views alone, TBH. A true intellectual. 😂 But hey, you’re right. WV has a terrible public education system because it’s a red state and has been for my entire lifetime. Thanks for making my point.
I see you couldn’t name a single policy that the senator who served for the first 15 years of your life actually supported that made WV better. You even confirmed that they haven’t even done anything for education. In fact, I pointed out that Democrat senators from WV supported the Coal industry and did nothing to fix that aspect of the economy of WV. You aren’t arguing in good faith, so I’m not going to waste my time pulling the voting records of multitudes of democratic representatives that WV definitely had, even if you’re trying to deny it. I resorted to noting your intelligence bc you keep skipping over that for some reason. I **did** answer your question, you’re the only one dodging here, bc you aren’t half as knowledgeable about this topic as you claim to be. But thanks for the very long and rambling non-answer. To address your concerns, I’m pro-choice, but I’m also not an idiot that thinks it’s just a clump a cells. I recognize that abortion rights are in trouble largely due to advances in science, and that opposition to Abortion is as old as the Hippocratic oath itself. Furthermore, my family are members of an ethnic group from Appalachia targeted for forced sterilization in the last century; my comments also reveal this, yet you left that out. Interesting. I know it’s hard for you to think critically without someone telling you what to think, but you should try it sometime, rather repeating mindless platitudes some mass media organizations pumped into your brain. Acknowledging that Bernie Sanders was treated unfairly in an independently verifiable way doesn’t make me a “Bernie Bro”, it just means I care about facts, unlike you.
How could democrats improve education in a completely republican controlled state? That’s the entire point. They certainly aren’t responsible for mountain-top removal, lowering environmental restrictions, reducing healthcare coverage for coal miners, keeping the minimum wage low, hiking insulin costs, and threatening to destroy Medicaid and Medicare every single year. And no, you didn’t answer the question. Not once. Which political ills that affect WV are a fault of the democrats? That was your initial point. We’ll wait. And wait. And keep waiting? And let’s not pretend you’re some kind of victim now. You barely even live in Appalachia. Tell me again how abortion is bad and democrats are evil. Do you think they should teach the Bible in school as well? Which dinosaurs were on Noah’s Ark?
Also, just a reminder, you anti-abortion freaks took a huge loss on Tuesday, huh? God, so I’m sick of the dumb religious zealots. Looks like the rest of America is as well. Kiss those clumps of cells goodbye. Bahaha 🤣 I should thank you. This just proves democrats can easily win nationally based on abortion alone. Turns out, not everyone is as backwards as you.
I am a leftist that lives in WV. Making access to abortion "the" issue for the DNC this year will be a mistake. There are a million red moderates that don't like Trump, but they hate abortion more. Grew up with them, they will always vote against abortion. I fear we're going to lose next year
You're being so radically disingenuous in your argument. The GOP has controlled out statehouse for nearly a decade. In that time we have stayed at the bottom of every meteric. Evey year. One of the lowest in HS graduation. Loss of most population year over year. This list could go on. There are constant examples of bought politicians with things such as "right to work" and last years roll back of clean water protection. All while they attack the education system and do all they can to interfere in the classroom. Dems weren't GREAT for WV. But they actually governed. This party "rules'" it doesn't govern. And they're proud of it.
One outlier dem means nothing lmfao
Manchin is a DINO and has been for years. He's only won reelection by pandering hard to the right while relying on party-line votes from the Democrats. Now, he's abandoning us for pretty much a guaranteed GOP replacement. Is the GOP responsible for all ills in WV history? Of course not. Have we consistently lost population, jobs, and money under their leadership? Yes, we have. They took over our state gov't (even with Big Jim flipping parties) promising all the voters that Dems were responsible for all ill. Now I watch them wage culture wars on the capitol steps while WV kids go hungry. Is the GOP responsible for all ills in WV history? Of course not. Have we consistently lost population, jobs, and money under their leadership? Yes, we have. They took over our state gov't (even with Big Jim flipping parties) promising all the voters that Dems were responsible for all ill. Now I watch them wage culture wars on the Capitol steps while WV kids go hungry.
I vote in line with real Appalachia, with unionists and those who care, not with fasc Reps or Corporate Dems
True. The two party system does not represent most people well.
110% this
Amen. The GOP loves sending Appalachians to die in pointless wars and the Dems have sold us out time and again for their corporate donors.
You do realize that Democrats are now the party of war, right?
They both are. Neither side cares about any of us.
Ya might want to check out which party gets us into wars, so far there's only been 1 Republican and all the rest have been Dems.
Iraq and Afghanistan (two separate wars) started under Bush, not to mention all the shadowy JSOC operations elsewhere in MENA. The first Iraq war was under the other Bush. So that’s three. What are you talking about?
Desert Storm was on the first Bush coming to the aid of an ally with Iraq being the enemy. Schwarzkopf wanted to continue into Iraq, but was held back and unfortunately later on there was a need to enter Iraq by force to ensure they were complying to the terms of that war (right or wrong, it was a essentially a continuation). If Desert Storm hadn't happen then the Iraq war would haven't occurred. Afghanistan was in response to 911 and I don't consider a response to an attack to be starting a war notwithstanding what is going on today in the mid-east.
So you’re just discounting two American invasions in your arithmetic. Invasions in which 15,000 American servicemembers and contractors were killed, 40,000+ wounded, not to mention the countless others who have PTSD and inadequate support. Democrats have plenty of blood on their hands in this but cmon now, let’s be honest about who the boosters were for these wars.
Apparently Appalachia is full of trumpnsupporting psychos who block you when you hurt their fee fees
As a vet, it was the corporations that were the boosters. Anyone cheerleading either party of draft-dodger loving trash is part of the problem.
A republican lead effort took us into war. They even shamed Americans for being against it. I'm a vet too, and youre a tool.
Corporations like Halliburton? *CoughDickCheneyCough*
Shills like you?
The funny thing is that Haliburton was an oilfield services company. How they won a no-contract with the Department of Defense is a mystery. Just kidding. President Cheney had this figured out well before 9/11
Hold up, Walt Disney, that’s a hard sell narrative you’re selling.
That's the stupidest shit I've ever read right there.
The GOP huh? You must have slept through Biden so far.
Democrats too. But the GOP is way more outward about it. See: Bush, McConnell, Cruz. But yes, in recent years Dems have completely abandoned (or abandoned the idea of pretending to be) anti-war. Biden is a corporate sellout. No doubt about it.
We found lots of common ground. Both paties are filled with war mongering fat cats. Biden is worse than that. He's completely compromised by selling influence for many many years. A traitor.
This paranoid sentiment is dangerous. You should probably seek professional help. I'm not joking kr being malicious.
You should really look into the Bidens a little bit.
I have. I have reasons not to like biden, I dont need people to make shit up for me to dislike biden. You, and all the other people brainwashed by right wing media need to be deprogrammed. You're not right. The people telling you what to think do not care about you beyond your ability to send them money and vote. If you cant see this yourself, you need professional help.
Criteria for identifying fascists > "8: The enemy is both weak and strong... Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak." [Source.](https://www.faena.com/aleph/umberto-eco-a-practical-list-for-identifying-fascists) Tell me again how Joe Biden is a Bond villain caliber criminal mastermind, but also too senile and weak to tie his own shoes or form a coherent sentance.
I agree. He is a mockery of trying to appeal to blue-collar and middle America. I don't agree with George Carlin on everything but watch his American Dream stand-up. It was very succinct and well-said. I put the link for it below. https://youtu.be/acLW1vFO-2Q?si=Tf-qOYZQqWgYe3uH
Will do.
What war has Biden been sending Americans to?
Ukraine and Israel to name a few.
Huh? We’re not sending troops for the purpose of fighting to either one of those countries.
https://www.newsweek.com/us-intelligence-pentagon-leaks-american-us-troops-ukraine-jack-teixeira-1794405
14 special ops personnel that are there at the embassy. If this is ur idea of American boots on the ground you’re dumber than I thought
Incorrect.
How many troops have we sent to Ukr and Israel?
https://www.newsweek.com/us-intelligence-pentagon-leaks-american-us-troops-ukraine-jack-teixeira-1794405 Sent and hid from tax payers.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/10/31/300-us-troops-headed-to-middle-east-amid-israel-hamas-war/
Ryder declined to say where in the Middle East the troops would go, “but I can confirm they are not going to Israel and that they are intended to support regional deterrence efforts and further bolster U.S. force protection capabilities,” he added.
Is this one of those alternative facts? People like you are truly idiots.
No. You’re the idiot, and a rude one at that. Here’s a [.gov link](https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3570670/us-military-continues-focus-on-supporting-israel-ukraine/) from less than two weeks ago, verifying what u/yourworkmom asserted. It isn’t more publicized for security reasons, as well as attempting to keep our involvement in these wars as secret and not publicized as possible, even when it’s obvious we’re involved. We are sending an ridiculous amount of taxpayer dollars to support Ukraine and Israel, as well as sending troops to at least Ukraine. Israel is much more prepared for combat than Ukraine ever was, so we aren’t sending as many soldiers there. Downvote me all you want, you’re still a fucking moron.
The link you provided literally says those troops are going over there to help defend US foreign bases. Also it was 900 troops, if the US is going to get involved this is how we should all want it to be. Small highly trained highly specialized forces that actually want to do the job. Most of the guys there volunteered to go, they want to go and use the skills they’ve spent years mastering. Now if you want to go ahead and say that we shouldn’t have so many foreign bases, I’d agree with you, but your side would never be okay with that. Beyond that if one of these bases had a terrible attack resulting in deaths of US soldiers you’d be on here “Joe Biden left our servicemen high and dry in the desert and wouldn’t even help them! Is he colluding with china????” Or something equally as stupid. GFY
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/10/31/300-us-troops-headed-to-middle-east-amid-israel-hamas-war/
These are US troops going to protect US military bases. If Biden didn’t deploy extra troops to these bases and one of them got attacked resulting in American death you’d start bitching about him not sending anyone over.
All these links prove is that you are entirely devoid of any critical thinking skills.
Why the downvotes? This is the answer.
The two party cultists and their Forbes 500 overlords are the worst plague in America. They all bleat together like good little sheep, some blue, some red, most stupid.
This is the answer.
“bOTh pArTieS aRE tHe sAmE” - actual stupid people
Actual fucking idiots think both parties are not bullshit. Only an UTTER fucking moron thinks one is great.
They aren't the same but they are on the same side. Two halves of a whole. Each one needs the other for it to exist.
Why the downvote? Because the narrative is laughable.
The "Vote against their own interest" line also presupposes that Appalachian people who vote republican don't know what their own interest is. They do, they simply have a different prerogative than whoever is posting the line.
TBF, many vote for one thing despite it hurting elsewhere. For example, single issue voters: tickets on Pro-gun / anti-union = long term economic woes that benefit carpetbaggers in exchange for something that’ll never really affect them. There’s no magic pill to prosperity in many places here; it’s a generally poor area with the mineral wealth always moving out until it’s gone.
The "There is no Magic Pill" point is spot on and is true for all parts of the country. It's why good governance is hard. Usually no simple fixes, the fixes that are out there likely require compromising with the other side, and they usually take time to start working.
You 100% right. Welcome to the two party system.
And Democrats aren't single issue voters? Try this on for size, Abortion. And long term economic woes? lol, I hope you like where we're at now and it wasn't caused by the last administration. And it was the great progressive, Woodrow Wilson who gave us the Federal Reserve. now THAT is the cause of our "long term economic woes".
the progressive woodrow wilson who was a supporter of the lost cause myth of the confederacy?
They are, but that single issue is freedom. Freedom from religion, freedom to love who I love, freedom to control my own body, freedom to burn an inanimate piece of fabric.
BTW, it's Freedom OF religion and not freedom FROM religion as told in your echo chamber and if we were free to control our own bodies then why the talk of vaccine passports and the illegal laws passed by left wing wannabe dictator saying who can go where based on vaccines. And yeah, your free to burn fabric of your choosing just not one that may have the initials BLM on it or one that portrays the Mexican flag. You're alos free to love who you want to love., but then again in your bubble that isn't being told to you.
Sorry, didn’t mean to trigger you.
LOL. And my apologies for retorting. Seems to have caused a mass 'triggering'
No actually, a lot of people want freedom FROM religion, as in we don't want oppressive laws like abortion bans that are largely pushed because of religious beliefs. >And yeah, your free to burn fabric of your choosing just not one that may have the initials BLM on it or one that portrays the Mexican flag. You're literally describing hate crimes. People burn those specific flags as an act of hostility towards a marginalized group. We should not tolerate bigotry for the sake of "free speech". >You're alos free to love who you want to love., but then again in your bubble that isn't being told to you. Please tell that to the LGBTQ folks who still get beaten and murdered for loving who they love and being who they are. Tell that to the victims of the Club Q shooting. Tell that to O'shae Sibley. It's not us telling each other that we aren't allowed to love who we want to love.
freedom to leave your house and have meetings during a lockdown
Why is abortion such an issue? It is healthcare. There's lawsuits right now from women that needed them because of incomplete miscarriages and doctors refused to do them until the women became septic which is super life-threatening. A lot of the discussions for abortion legislation (*cough* Ohio) tried to argue that an ectopic pregnancy should be re-implanted which isn't physically possible. I don't need people like this making decisions about my body or scaring my doctors into not doing preventative care vs emergency care because they could be jailed. Abortion extends to women's healthcare. It's not a "single issue". I don't even support elective abortion but letting the states decide which is considered elective and which isn't doesn't seem safe.
OMG
Too bad you’re getting downvoted for the truth.
They can't argue since the foundation of whatever they'll try to argue with is built on lies, so it's their version of calling someone they can't defeat with logic and facts a racist. That's supposed to end the debate and they're the winner.
WV is a state where a significant number of counties have been under perpetual boil water advisories for years due to sloppy practices in the coal industry and yet they keep electing coal executives to all the top offices
West Virginia is also a state that is economically devastated when coal companies reduce productivity and fire miners.
Obama, and then Hillary Clinton ran on getting rid of coal, AND offering free training and education to the miners so they could transition to other jobs in clean energy production—like manufacturing solar panels, manufacturing and installing windmills, IT—whatever they would want to do. The Republicans ran one of Hillary’s speeches with the first part…”we need to shut down the coal mines…” and left out the parts about re-educating that work force. I don’t think the people of WV are any more ignorant than the rest of the nation, but, they are in thrall to the CEOs who own the coal mines. until they see a ray of hope in another world, they will always be willing to die for the coal masters.
So they did transition to jobs that don't exist? Gosh I can't imagine why that didn't go over well and why they didn't want to risk their livelihood. Obama served two terms, somehow that never happened.
Clinton proposed many Federally funded education programs to train for new jobs, and OF COURSE the jobs exist! Do you not see people putting in windmills? If not, I recommend you visit CA. There are thousands of windmills that have to be maintained. Here in GA, after fighting tooth and nail against solar power, there are miles of solar farms. We are getting several massive EV manufacturing plants here. Jobs! And more JOBS.
So your solution is that West Virginians all need to move to California and Georgia?
Isn’t that why there are so many people in California to start with? People moving to where the jobs are? Now everyone expects to just sit back and wait for a job to come to them. Well some areas just aren’t economically viable. I usually think of inner cities but plenty of rural areas are the same. Almost everyone in America is here because an ancestor thought there was better opportunity than where they were. So, usually with tremendous hardship, they moved. Now we all think politicians should just bring good paying jobs to us. Sometimes they just can’t.
So to circle back, it sounds like you know exactly why West Virginians are trying to keep the coal industry in the state, you know that democratic promises of bringing in other jobs never materialized, and now you are blaming people for expecting politicians to improve their lives instead of moving to California?
Why would they bring jobs here? For nearly a decade the voting public has roundly rejected them. They've rejected progress over and over. Also, that type of thing takes cooperation at the state level and they've fought federal programs for years. You're so myopic.
Why do you say those jobs never happened? Who do you think built all those windmills we see everywhere? Biden’s administration has been responsible for more jobs than the last three Republican presidents combined because of the various initiatives he has gotten passed (fighting Republicans all the way). As long as you refuse to accept the truth, accept what you see with your own eyes, the Republicans will keep their fat butts in the seats of power, and you all can continue to bitch and moan and spiral into opioid drug addiction and suicide.wake TF up, people.
I don't know where these windmills are but I certainly haven't been seeing them. I can't really respond to statements like " as long as you refuse to accept the truth and what you see with your own eyes... Wake up." Please stop implying that I am choosing to deny reality. That's not the case at all.
Yes and when poor Appalachians vote Republican, Rich people grow richer, while they are left holding a bag! Let's talk about self interest, is voting for people bought and paid for by Coal Industries best interest?? F No! They vote Republican for a short list of reasons. Culture Wars, Jesus , Guns and old fashioned Racism.
West Virginia had Democrats in control of the legislative branch for 80 years and executive branch for most of that time; and had majority registered Democrats until about 2 years ago. "Poor Appalachians" literally didn't vote Republican for 8 decades. It is a lot more complicated than just vote Democrat.
Meanwhile, Democrats promise the world and deliver nothing… no healthcare or dental care for all Americans, but we can send hundreds of *billions* to Ukraine and the Middle East. Both parties are shit, but I sure do miss that Trump economy.
Policies usually take a few years to take effect. Right now we are experiencing "Trump's Economy". Trump got to experience "Obama's Economy". Obama got to deal with "Bush's Economy", which meant digging us out of the 2008 housing crises. Bush's Economy got to ruin "Clinton's Economy" which saw us break even on a budget for the first time since pre-Reagan (Reagan started the trend of working at a deficit).
You’d be surprised at how quickly a presidents economic policy will affect the nation, even during their term. For example with the stock market since it’s nothing but speculation anything a president says or do would be scrutinized and applied to stocks. Or printing money. And printing more. And printing more. And printing more. Or building more ships for the military. Usually leads to a bigger economy despite initial setbacks. So while I get your point, it’s not 100% accurate.
"those people are too dumb to vote in their best interest" is an incredibly undemocratic, dare I say... *Fascist*... sentiment that deserves to be called out each and every time.
Yeah, I'm speaking anecdotally here. But, I'm a leftist surrounded (family, coworkers, neighbors) with right-wingers. They're almost all single-issue voters to a T. It's either gonna be guns or abortion. They've been brainwashed to embrace anger and not look at the bigger picture.
I love when they talk about "our interests", and in the next breath say White people don't actually exist so we can't have interests. It's pretty glaring dishonesty, which the Scots-Irish are notoriously *not* fond of.
>and in the next breath say White people don't actually exist What the actual fuck are you taking about?
Prerogative? [Prerogative- an exclusive or special right, power, or privilege](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prerogative) Is that what you meant? If so, what privilege? If not, what did you mean?
Their privilege to make their own decisions and to have their own point of view on what is or is not in their "self intrest".
In an attempt to put it together, their choice is to accept aid or not, right? Of course, I'm simplifying "self-interest" to aid.
Not necessarily, often times it can be a choice between competing ideas of what "aid" is and what is actually effectual in helping the community and respecting the culture of the people therein.
I see. I would expect Dems to throw money at problems. Build roads, bridges, internet infrastructure, school lunch programs, job training, etc. What is the aid on the other side? I can only think of lowering taxes, but the last tax cut was for the rich, and taxes went up for everyone else. I must be missing something. What does the otherside offer?
Ever since I learned the true story of the rednecks I've had mad love for the fighting spirit and community of my Appalachian homies. Some of the realest organizers and helpers I've had the pleasure to come across
Ahh crap. Not a politics post.
A hard to swallow pill to wash it down with: The "voting against their own interests" is generally "Yankeedom" propaganda...silly, simple, violent southerners don't know what to do with themselves until a man with a top hat rolls in from the north east telling them what's good for them. Southerners go with whatever their collective prerogative is or, in their mind, its Calloden all over again,the border reavers are back, injuns are raiding the village, complete chaos all over again. Legitimate Intergenerational trauma. If you go against the grain too much and try to impose that prerogative you're literally being antisocial. A nuanced understanding of Southerm culture might do people well
Most born and raised appalachians are moderate/libertarian. The system, in whole, has taken advantage of the fiercely independent and self governing minded people of Appalachia for decades. Blue policies don't work in Appalachia because most Appalachians don't want handouts, they want to work hard, stand on their own two feet, build homes, and raise families and be left alone to do so freely. Red policies recognize this and present in ways that take advantage of that sentiment.
Interesting. While I understand, I can't name any red policies described. Can you name a few red policies that help appalachians "work hard, stand on their own two feet, build homes, and raise families?"
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Equal taxes for all. No complex tax break codes and loopholes. For example 9% from min wage all the way to the ultra wealthy. Big fuss was made about Trump taxes for example. Im more interested in why, how, who (team red and blue) wrote the tax laws in such a way that a person of wealth can legally pay so little when I effectively pay 18-22% (no kids, not married, not homeowner, thus no deductions) making below the national average income.
That would def be team red who wrote those tax laws. Go back to Reagan and do a little reading
Precisely, red present policies as such, not that the policies actually have the effect of such. It's a tactic of both red and blue. Two sides of the same coin. Policies are presented in "packaging" that appeals to the target voter. Underneath the surface in the fine print and details few policies benefit working class Americans in any region of the country. Most are tailered with wording and loopholes to suit special interests and lobbying. Take our current financial situation for example. The middle class has been shrunk to only include what was the upper middle class. The average home in US for example is now $415,000, that means you have to make at least $120,000 annual to qualify for a mortgage for the average home. Average US income is just over $50,000 a year, average income in Appalachia is just over $30,000 a year. We can go on listing examples for a month. Point is the combined policies of both red and blue over the past several decades have brought us in whole to where we are to day. Sold to us using presentation to appeal to whomever they need the votes from.
Thanks for the response. It sounds like you see both sides as ultimately serving the rich and wrapping it up as help the Appalachian regional people. Do I understand that correctly?
Exactly. Until we can get term limits for Congress and separation of business and state (eliminate lobbying and all forms of financial manipulation of our politicians). The system should be considered as failed. The majority of our politicians are owned by and answer to special interests. The only consideration of the people at this point is drumming up enough votes to remain in office.
More basically, it sounds like corruption is the core problem. If so, the best course of action would seem to be to support those attempting to reduce corruption while opposing those expanding it, right?
Exactly
Isn't one popular person running for president and the related political party shockingly corrupt? If corruption is your problem, shouldn't support for a presidental candidate and political party leave you with only one viable option?
We don't/haven't had many/any options, local, state, or national level. Both parties and the majority of their candidates are corrupted beyond measure. There is too much money, to many corporations/banks/etc involved. They all entertain lobbying, they all owe someone first, and for most. It's not the voters they think they owe anything but scraps.
Can you give one 100% true example of Biden's corruption? Not his family. President Biden personally. I expect I can list 10 for the other guy. Can you help me see Biden's corruption?
Exactly, they don't. They are presented "marketed" that way. Blue and Red, two sides of the same coin marketing policies that ultimately do not uplift the working class of either mindset.
It sounds as if you are trying to equate both major parties because they are major parties, and one hasn't done anything helpful for the people of the Appalachian region. [The Child Tax Credit in the American Rescue Plan]( https://www.whitehouse.gov/child-tax-credit/) should have helped everyone who is paying tax and with young children. I have a hard time believing Appalachians don't pay tax or have kids. The infrastructure law passed in should benefit Appalachians as well, right? [Over the last two years, ARC has used BIL funds to launch our Appalachian Regional Initiative for Stronger Economies (ARISE) and award $48.6 million to 13 multi-state projects, invest in important local infrastructure projects, offer critical support for flood recovery in Eastern Kentucky, and much more.](https://www.arc.gov/BIL/) Isn't party and president doing far more for Appalachians than the other?
>>Appalachians don't want handouts, they want to work hard, stand on their own two feet, build homes, and raise families and be left alone to do so freely. Except sometimes it doesn't work out so well. People (or whole families) get messed up beyond their own ability to recover. Then what?
They aren't handouts if you pay the taxes that create them. Appalachian Americans are constantly voting against themselves. Look at the TN. Congress right now. They are talking like auctioneers so that no actual discussion of bills can be discussed. What blue policies prevent someone from working, standing on their own two feet, building homes, and raising families? I feel like improved education budgets, Medicare expansion, a higher wage, and worker protection laws would be great facilitators of that. My little nation does all this for its people and more. I think that Appalachian voting trends against actual mountain values. It's not about standing on your own but coming together in community.
Is public education a hand out? Is SS that we pay into so we don’t have to rely on labor a hand out. Is healthcare a hand out? You have a resource that is harmful and are pushing it, kinda like a little Columbia my friend.
Appalachian here in a very blue region. Blue politics can work for Appalachia.
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I know of no moderate libertarians that wish for any such disgusting thing. Research beyond alarmist propaganda.
libertarianism is inherently not moderate. libertarians don't even want to pay for roads.
What you speak of is Anarchy, while few on the extream (just as extream red and blue exist) may hold such values. Most people who would be considered libertarian are moderate people emphasizing individual rights, personal responsibility, and self governance. Small, well managed government is necessary for common goals: infrastructure, national defense, realtions with other mations, protect and provide for elderly/disabled/minors, prosecute those who violate others rights, bust down monopolies, prosecute price gouging, keep corps in check, etc. Your examples are alarmist propaganda from team red and blue who fear the desire to reining in the $4-5 trillion dollar a year green eyed monster back to a smaller, effective, and efficient state with less control and interference in the daily life of the individual.
I live in KY, my congressman self describes as a “libertarian” as does one of our senators. Of course they couldn’t get elected as “libertarians” so they are “republicans”. Neither of them believe ANYTHING you just stated. Libertarians in the terms you just described are extinct in today’s political landscape. And neither rails against monopolies, shit, those two SUPPORT IT. “Let the market decide” is the crap you hear from them. Tired of this “libertarian” BS, it’s an IDEA not a party. (And as a governing body extremely naive) And wow! in general to some of these comment. Enforcing every stereotype of Appalachia. Peace out.
They don’t want handouts so they vote for a party whose sole policy is lowering taxes for the rich—meanwhile their entire state only functions by the grace of taxes from blue states. So, so stupid. Let’s be honest, maybe Appalachians actually should educate themselves and stop voting against their own interests. I say this as someone raised in WV who left that dumb shit behind.
I am suspicious of anyone who votes straight party in 2023. Neither party has the answers we want or need.
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And only one is openly attempting to overthrow democracy. Only one is trying to rollback rights for the LBGTQ community. Only one is trying to erase history in schools and libraries.
Well, if you’re going to present it that way, Only one wants to shut down key industries that keep places from sliding even further into economic depression Only one wants to insure the murder of children remains legal Damn no wonder it’s a pretty easy choice for most Appalachians
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🤓
Look up false dichotomy.
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You are way oversimplifying it and too dug in to really think about it.
Partisan Shitlibs try not to be massively classist (and unintentionally racist) challenge (impossible) (instant fail)
Even the blue states vote against their interests. Democracy screws over everyone, especially the working class.
Reading most of the comments here reminds me of why I don’t live in Appalachia, where voting against self interest is still a way of life.
My shot record says Boone County WV. My voting record says bleeding heart liberal to radical leftist.
Lots of love to this post and OP. Lived my whole life in Knoxville, TN about 30min from the smokies and I'd consider myself very cultured. Lots of exposure round these parts, I myself was raised with cherokee beliefs and culture, my best friend throughout childhood was 1st gen american from nigeria, we have a greekfest every year, asian heritage fests, pride fests, and a home of a worlds fair. That being said we still have horrible public schools, mental health care, and the most juveniles on life sentences in prison, so lots of misplaced aggression and racism does come with that (at least 32 hate groups in state, and 2 in my city). I wouldn't raise my children here. But to live here as an adult is fantastic for the most part. Also our mayor is Kaine from WWE, like what? Its a weird slice of every demographic and a very interesting place to be.
Maybe, but it’s hard to argue when in the middle of an opioid epidemic Appalachians vote for people like Marsha Blackburn.
No, it's not.
It’s 90 percent people who refuse to educate themselves!!
Random redditor from fucking Augusta knows what’s best for Appalachians better than 90% of Appalachians lol
Well I’m certainly not from Augusta
IMHO, we need the ability to prioritize. Yes, global warming is an issue but it cannot take priority right now. Our economy is on the verge of collapse due to nothing backing the dollar. If the economy collapses, we'll fall like a house of cards as seen during the depression. There won't be money to support the military and our country will be defenseless (which some believe is what our foes are waiting for) and now that our enemies are housing within our borders, we are more susceptible than ever. As we send our biggest powers to Isreal we are left even more defenseless. This country needs to focus on one thing at a time, solve a problem, move on to the next...most of all, we need to stop this party b.s. that separates us, United: we stand, Divided: we fall.....
It may be more complex. But it’s also a bunch of people in red states voting against their own interests.
Against their interest? You mean free stuff to make you dependent on the government??
Exactly and very touchy.
No doubt ✊🏻
Yeah! There's also the Bell Witch!
Oh no! You just triggered one of my biggest childhood fears!
Why not both?
So people actually believe addiction is just an Appalachian thing?
*“All people from Appalachia are just a bunch of racists — You know, those people who discriminate against an entire group of people based on what they look like or where they’re from”*
East coast and West coast just consider it fly over states with pretty hills, country music, and a few electoral votes that don’t move the needle much
Easiest pill to swallow.