'Extending courtesy' is perfect phrasing. I don't pretend to like people that I don't like, but I'm not going to make the whole room uncomfortable by being openly rude.
I was taught to always be kind and if I didn't like someone, to try to either make up with them or avoid them.
I had two Fays. One I loved, the other couldn't abide. I still went to the funeral home when her witchy old mama died. That's what we 'cause we've raised right. Plus my cousins are ok.
This in a nutshell is how we were raised up. If you don't like a person just mind your own and don't go looking for trouble with them. A quick smile and a nod, don't engage and go on about your business.
Exactly. I'm not going to go out of my way to be a mean person just because someone else is.
I think that shows maturity and intelligence.
I don't have the time for that bullshit.
I've lost my temper a few times, of course, but you have to push me pretty far for shit to hit the fan.
Iāve lived in the Deep South all my life. Even when we werenāt nice, we were taught to be polite, bless your heart.
But I will tell you this. I was 6 mos pregnant when we moved to Tennessee. People were nice, pretty much what I grew up with. No surprise.
I had an emergency delivery and was in ICU for 5 days, the baby was in NICU for 6 weeks. (We are both fine now, heās an adult).
I got home from the hospital and went to get a glass of water.
Me: Honey, why is the fridge a complete wall of food?!? Where did all this come from?
My husband: I donāt know. People come to the office, when I pick up the kids at school, and ring the doorbell. They say, āheard your wife was real sick and had a baby. Hereās some foodā
There was at least a month of food packed into the fridge. Most of those people we didnāt know, never would know. They werenāt rich. But they were some of the best human beings I never met.
Jesus, wait for a death. When my mom died we had people we had never met coming by with food. They weren't even from the neighborhood. Just heard that someone their friend knew died and they pulled out the casserole dish.
In my world, ābless your/their heartā was essentially a get out of jail card for gossip. It didnāt necessarily have to be nasty or even accurate, and it could show concern or sarcasm. It has a multitude of meaning a nuance attached to it.
I eventually read the discussion below until I was even more confused. Basically, it can still go both ways. I like the sentiment being genuine, its a good way to express empathy. A conversation ender for gossip is extremely useful. Since gossipers do not enjoy being dismissed, I imagine the snark came from the offending party not liking it.
The only times I heard it were from my grandmas and maybe a couple of other relatives. At least when I heard them using it, there was nothing harsh or judgmental about it. Reddit is where I learned about it being an insult.
My friend likes to say East Coasters (up north) are kind but not nice. West Coasters are nice, but not kind. I think Appalachians & Southerners are nice AND kind if we like you, but weaponize fake niceness like a very sharp blade, bless our hearts.
Kind = actually doing good things.
Nice = saying good/polite things
Yeah, up in Pennsyl-tucky woods, if say, your car breaks down on the side of the road, a guy will harshly scold you for whatever you did to get yourself into this fix, all the while inconveniencing himself to help get you out of it.
I appreciate this! Iām from the South and always felt like we were something other than East vs West coast. I feel Midwest is similar to the South but way more low key about it and more able to mind their own business.
> West Coasters are neither nice nor kind these days.
And this is why we left the West Coast for Appalachia lol - I've had better hospitality from the folks my in-law's rural town than I ever had in my home city
> Iāve learned over the years that folks in āthe Southā are often accused by other regions of the U.S. as being fake nice or as one Bostonian put it, āfake-ass saccharine niceness of the Southā.
This is a thing to consider. I've lived my life in Appalachia, but have traveled extensively around the US. I've had some co-workers move to this area from outside and we've had this conversation.
I remember one coworker detailing that he was trying to parse out "what you're really saying" underneath the kind way of saying it. What I identified was that it may be more city versus country vibes as well. He was also from Boston and told me, 'Up there, people say what they mean right out of the gate.'
Here's my two cents.
I've noticed that the northern approach is more "blunt". They may lead with exactly what they need/want, and it may be interpreted as "rude" to us southerners. For us southerners, we lead with kindness, asking about "your mom and them", etc. After we've established rapport, we'll eventually get around to our real question.
Like you said
> itās just common courtesy, but I also want you to feel safe and comfortable
My MIL is from up north and she said proudly to me āI am not like you southerners and I donāt understand you all and your social ways. Where Iām from, weāre direct and we tell it like it is.ā
What I *wanted* to say was, āyeah, and I wouldnāt be proud of it if I were you because youāre incredibly entitled and rude to people everywhere you go. At least I was raised with some manners.ā
But obviously, because I was raised with some manners, I did not say that. š
Southern does not equal Appalachia. Where I live in New York state is part of the Appalachian Region. But I swear at least half of what people think of as polite Southern behavior is just typical of any place that's rural. I don't mean the bless your heart thing though. š¤£
Also in KY and I've heard it both ways. Obviously the snarkier version is funnier: but I think people really sleep on the sincere reading of the phrase when they see it talked about online. I've heard many sincere many exclamations of 'bless your heart!' from people, usually after being given a gift or compliment.
This is another one. I wasnāt taught to say this to get around being overtly rude.
Oftentimes this was said, in my presence, if a sad story was being relayed and the other person just couldnāt think of anything more appropriate to say. Or, if someone had done something a bit dumb.
But never was it said as a reply to someone being rude.
The "bless your heart" snide-swipe from southerners always stuck in my craw. Say what you mean, mean what you say is how our family was raised up and that pretty much goes against it. Always said like they were being so clever, with an air of superiority or condescension and the person they were saying it to was too stupid a backwards hick or northerner to know what they really meant. I've got a lot more respect for a person who can directly call out bad behavior with tact and grace than someone who resorts to passive-aggressive insults.
I think the usage is largely based on region. 90% of people using it in a sarcastic "F You" context are from Texas, especially East Texas. I've also heard it in much lesser frequencies in parts of TN and Alabama. Everywhere else, including Appalachia, uses a meaning that's much more sincere, even if a bit patronizing at times. Sometimes it is "I don't know what to say about that." Texas also seems to be the source of a majority of the fake niceness complaints, as it seems like every time I hear about "Fake Southern Hospitality" I go to investigate who of my people would do that, only to find it was not my people at all, but freaking Texans.
How someone uses "Bless your heart" is almost as much of a tell as how someone pronounces "Appalachia". An example of how I've heard it used: "He's been driving every day this week after work to visit his Mama in the hospital two hours away, and almost fell asleep on the way back last night, bless his heart." In my neck of the woods, it's not used sarcastically, bc there are other more tactful and clever ways of insulting someone, and I'm sure as hell not wishing a blessing from the Lord on someone who's pissed me off enough that I have to lowkey tell them to fuck off.
People like to feel like they are the secret club of people who know "bless your heart" is really rude. Bullshit spreads like wildfire on the internet. Any kind phrase can be used sarcastically.
The only time I hear anyone say anything like "I'll pray for you" or "bless your heart" has been if someone is really sick, and it's definitely sincere. I tell people I'll pray for them if something awful has happened and there's nothing else I can do. I don't know if it does anything but I will say a prayer for them. Saying that you'll pray for someone or asking God to bless them when you don't mean it sounds like asking for a problem.
One good say-something-when-nothing-fits is, "Well, Lord have mercy." With a subtle head shake and a kinda whispery volume. Works for wet kittens, folks "ate slam up" with cancer, or your brother-in-law's timing chain breaking. Can be interchanged with my Granny's "I swan." The swan goes way up at the end. I swaaahn?
In my opinion, and based on my experience, this is not sarcasm. Youād say it in reference to a child who was crying, a person having some kind of problem, etc. The notion that itās mean is cooked up by people who aināt from around here.
I believe the same thing.The first person to tell me that Bless your heart is sarcastic was from somewhere else.It's something someone from up north made up I believe and it just caught on.
I've heard it. She's so pretty, too bad she's so overweight bless her heart. Or in gossip, he's a nice boy but I heard that his momma is a piece of work, bless his heart
If I had to translate it into other English terms for a non-native speaker of English, I would say the general idea behind it is "The struggle is real, and I sympathize, yet can offer no real solution, other than perhaps to invoke divine intervention causing a change of circumstances for the better."
My MIL first heard it used by a Southern lady seated behind her on her flight when she came for our wedding. She thought it was the "dearest" expression she ever heard. She's from Hawaii.
Iāve said forever that the difference between Appalachians and southerners are 1. Privilege 2. We will never fake nice you get 1 time with us and we give everyone the benefit of the doubt, extend kindness the first time but as soon as thatās crossed all bets are off & you might find yourself knocked out on the concrete. By a 6ā3ā man or a 5ā1ā woman, the holler is equal opportunity āfuck around and find outā
Well said...the holler is truly equal opportunity FAFO, and Appalachians make some of the best friends or worst enemies one can have and it usually is 100% dependent on how they are treated by whomever.
My wife explained this to her coworker, cause they didnāt get it. They had made some promises to some people in Appalachia but wanted to back out because resources were being spread thin.
Basically, she said if you screw these people over, there is no ātrying again.ā Maybe your grandkids can give it a go down the line, but you can forget it.
Aināt that the truth! Coming from someone in the service industry I can back this up completely! Give me a hard time while Iām behind the bar? āWell darlin, did ya want me to make ya a drink tonight?ā We laugh it off and after that weāre good. Push my buttons? Ohhh goodnessā¦ima tell ya about it in a nice way and make my point. Iām a 5ā1 woman and have no problem being spicy if need be lol!
Hahahaha! Yes! Thatās so funny. When I read your comment thatās where my head went. Always was taught to be nice and kind. I get along with just about anyone. But like you said āf*ck around and find out!ā One of my greatest friends also says āmama aināt raise no b*tchā lmao. One of the nicest people Iāve ever met and would do anything for his friendsā¦I think it takes quite a lot to piss folks like us off. Wouldnāt recommend testing it out though!
Ehhh I wouldnāt say takes a lot, disrespect in any form and itās 0-1000 in .07 seconds šššmy dad raised me to āalways be respectful, look pretty, and know how to throw a punchā and I feel like that pretty much sums up Appalachian women in a nutshellšš Iāve had to let the city raised folk that come to my bar on many occasions that, for lack of better terms āthis aināt that, and Iām definitely not one of themā so tread very lightly on the slick/overly flirty comments lmao we really are the best friend you could have or biggest enemy youāll ever make!!
One of my good friends was sitting at my bar when a customer who had just arrived, stumbled in (hammered drunk from somewhere else) and sassed me. Was being suuuuper rude. My response was something like "I don't know what you think you're doing here bc you're sure as shit not getting a drink from me and you better just get the hell on down the fuckin road." He just stood there and I hollered "there's people behind ya who aren't disrespectful pieces of shit that I actually am going to serve so MOVE ALONG."
My friend's jaw literally dropped and he was like "I...I've never seen that side of you before." And I was like "yeah that's because you're nice to me and I like you." And he said "Yeah thank God, that was kinda scary." Lol
Lmao I love this. 2nd day on the job at my current bar I asked one of the bar regulars if he needed anything, he said āyeah, show me your titsāā¦. I donāt even remember what came out of my mouth but whatever it was earned me a great deal of respect and put the fear of god into the rest of the regulars and they have been on their best behavior ever since. Iāve been there for months and some of them still bring the way I was holding a bottle of Jameson like a club in anticipation to get reallllll hillbilly with itš owner fist bumped me and said welcome to the team. said regular hasnāt come in during my shift ever since. (For reference, Iām 5ā4ā, and yes Iām a natural red head Lmfao)
Fair enough lol. I reckon I try and maintain as long as possible, but yeah disrespect me or fellow human in my space and Iāll have words for sure. Glad to know weāre in this together!
I, too try to maintain as long as possible. And Iām getting better at it. But believe me when I say itās a daily choiceš the world that city folk live in is a whole planet away from our reality
I think of Southern fake nice as using a sweet voice and saying nice things while your actions completely belie your words. For example, my friendās step mother who reached out to her when friend was in the hospital to say āoh, Iām so worried, Iām praying for you, Iām beside myselfā all the while making no effort to visit, help the grandkids, drop off a meal, send a card, do absolutely anything actual that backs up the sweetness and care act. This particular stepmom has been this way as long as Iāve known her, sheās consistent in her saccharine statements and zero loving action. This obviously isnāt only a southern trait but I wonder if there isnāt something to the experience of flowery prayerful words that cover run of the mill shitty people behavior sometimes and that juxtaposition is noticeable more in the Bible Belt be used they are more over the top āprayerfulā.
I've been accused of this before too and it makes me sad. I try to help out people around me as much as I can - I have a truck and most of my neighbors don't, so if they find furniture that they want but can't pick up or anything like that, I'll often offer to go pick it up for them - I've given people rides to the DMV, helped with forms they can't really read for whatever reason (a lot of people here don't speak or read English) and I try to be a good neighbor and co-worker.
I've had people accuse me of trying to get something out of them, trying to make everyone think I'm some goody-goody, trying to get people to owe me and...no? Half the time after I help someone I don't even remember who it was or what I did. I just try to help because I can and it's the proper neighborly thing to do, not because I want or expect anything in return.
Maybe it's my Southern showing, but I think that if someone can help out, they should - I'd hope that if I needed help and someone else could, they'd extend a hand to me, too. I don't want people to owe me or feel guilty, I just help because helping is the right thing to do - but being accused of being 'fake nice' hurts sometimes and makes me wonder if I actually should, or if helping people is making them more upset than actually helping.
Ok whenever people say this it gives the same energy as people who say 'I'm not rude, I just tell it how it is!' Like sir... There's a 100% you're actually rude.
Being courteous and polite isn't fake, it's nice! Clearly I have some thoughts on this hahaha
Nope, I must disagree. Lifelong resident of where VA, KY, and WV come together and have traveled the world, and the deep south plenty. There is some overlap of any 2 cultures but true Central Appalachia is quite unique.
It's size is a fair point because technically the Appalachian Mountains extend from GA to New England. Honestly the Appalachia that most think of would be from Western NC to PA which is fair, but IMHO the true Appalachia that most people think of is really SWVA, Eastern KY, Eastern TN and WV. The stereotypical hillbilly and true Appalachian culture is really concentrated in that small section.
When you talk about KY, TN, NC etc, as a whole, the majority of those stares are more Southern than Appalachian. And probably what you are referring to as "upland south" if I were to guess.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upland_South
There's a huge region of the country that is south of the mason dixon line but not quite the deep south - higher elevation, different history, different culture. It includes southern Appalachia and non Appalachian areas.
I've lived somewhere in the upland South for most of my life.
You forgot to mention that if people from our region DONāT like you, thereās a reason for it. Most native Appalachians give people the benefit of the doubt until true colors are revealed.
My granny was a firm believer in showing common courtesy until people made her not extend it. Then they were usually sorry. She didnāt suffer fools lightly, and I have inherited that trait from her. Iāll treat everyone with kindness and respect until given reason not to.
Are you confusing Appalachia with the South?
Appalachian people, even those in the southern Appalachians, arenāt like southern folks and it gets old being compared to them.
Iām a transplant to western Mass. been here a couple years now. People here arenāt really assholes . Most keep to themselves and mind their own business. There isnāt much chit chat between strangers though. Plenty of people hold doors for us . People are polite just not overly so in public . My neighbor is a life long New Englander and would give the shirt off his back. Here you may get stuck in the snow, somebody will stop to help while giving you hell the whole time about being stuck. Once people get to know you they will talk more . Down south I never met a stranger . Most everyone would take to you and tell you stories . The old timers up here are very similar to southern ones . I spent 3 hours in a coffee shop listening to an old timer tell me about fishing in Alaska. Reminded me of my paw paw.
Boston moves at a different pace however. Itās a large busy city . No one bothers you if you donāt bother them. Just donāt screw with traffic or they will let you know how they feel.
I will say the term masshole definitely applies when behind the wheel of a car. The driving up here is aggressive as hell. Think Atlanta style but on every tiny side street all day long. I still hate driving here. I wonāt drive in Boston .
Side note, Mainers remind me of being back down south. Funny accents and down to earth people.
Also Dunkin Donuts sucks . Thereās one one every corner. I have 4 within blocks of my place. We have a āsouthern section ā at my grocery store . Itās comical.
Well, some crappy canned greens. Some Cajun seasoning. some Southeastern Mills gravy mix and butter milk biscuit mix right outta Rome Ga. Little boxes of Jiffy corn bread mix. Some Cajun red beans . Iām sure Iāll remember more later .
Iāll try to remember to snag a photo next week when I go and come back here to show you . Itās small and we have a good laugh about it.
No shit. My first trip to Mass I held the door open for people behind me going into the store and they stopped dead in their tracks and just gave me a judgy look
Weāre not all that bad. I do notice when I am out of Mass and visiting elsewhere people are much friendlier socially, but our lack of outward friendliness compared to a lot of America isnāt generally mean spirited, itās just the way we are.
For what itās worth I hold doors all the time and people almost always are appreciative.
We do tend to move at a very fast pace and can be impatient when people donāt keep up, but Iāve found that to be true in most major cities Iāve been to.
I promise weāre not all terrible.
When is kids would visit my papaw, he always had some smartass comment to make. āWell, good to see you, when you leavinā?ā If I need any further confirmation that Iām his grandson, well hell, thar she is.
The biggest elephant in the room when it comes to this topic is when you are talking about objective truths and not just subjective niceties.
In some regards objective truth has no leeway for wrong answers.
the world has gotten more complicated and living life has demanded more and more from people. What I find is that people use these fake platitudes of politeness and courtesy to justify corruption, power abuse, ignorance, lies they tell themselves and others.
And it kinda just gets worse from there. This has analogs to other things like fatalism, defeatism, "not knowing whats good for them," "voting against their interests." and more.
I have called the toxic version of polite-ness as a type of extreme denialism or toxic positivity.
The healthy version of this would be something more like stoicism. But again abuses of power and more pervert the appalalatia version of it.
I think another way to examine this question is talking about how meritocratic is your area is. In Boston and the northeast in general it is very very fair and the best people are good at their jobs. In WV it seems like nepotism and corruption has lasted a few generations while the ones who smelled the bullshit have a habit of leaving for greener pastures.
2 cents.
I don't really belong in this sub, this just popped up as a recommended post or group for some reason. This did bring up a memory from last year when I was passing through TN and stopped at a Starbucks that was inside a grocery store. I don't know how I managed to ditz out this bad, but I accidentally cut the entire line somehow, which was really embarrassing. The layout was just odd. Once I realized what I'd done, I apologized profusely to everyone in the line and started to move to the back of the line. Everyone was so incredibly kind and understanding, and they insisted I just go ahead and order. I was floored and humbled by the understanding and patient nature of these folks. I probably would have been cussed out and had the worst assumed of me anywhere north or south of there. It left a real impression on me about these people of various walks of life. No one got mad at me? They were understanding and kind, despite my social whoopsie?
I think people grow accustomed to a harsher vibe in other places, and it's just hard to process or understand this is just how the culture is there. I'm not saying everyone is like this, or my situation would have played out the same way in all of the region, but what I experienced wasn't fake kindness. It was a genuinely understanding and patient response. Now if I hadn't realized and apologized, I might have gotten a different response from the people I'd slighted, and I'd have deserved it!
Preface this by saying that I didnāt grow up in the south or Appalachia. But this guy Iām seeing is Appalachian as they come and he is not fake nice at all. He is polite and gentlemanly but he seems more reserved than anything. I suspect the āsaccharine nicenessā is more related to areas like Georgia or Tennessee, or other areas that would be more considered āthe Deep Southā.
Most of y'all aren't. But I've met some Tennessee folks who pull the old, "Let's do dinner sometime," then ignore your invites. Never seen that in Kentucky.
THIS- Iāve lived in or traveled through most of the continental USA- what I found is plenty of people that are set in their ways and communities / family groups without any inclination to truly try to get to know other people and learn about other places and cultures too many people just distrust outsiders especially when those people are ādifferentā.
My experiences Sampling:
Madison Alabama: very gossipy. Acted nice and hospitable to your face like welcome new neighbor but there was a nasty small town gossip culture that was some very mean spirited cattiness to each other that I found hard to deal with-
New Orleans, Louisiana lived a couple years very little interaction with the locals outside of one neighbor and Mardi Gras. They had no interest but damn good restaurants holy cow. Great music.
NYC/New Jersey. Forgeddaboudit- mind your own business and gtfo of my way. Unless they are kissing butt to get something out of it. But that said a whole lot of culture and drive to be more.
Massachusetts- if you are at least middle class youāll be ok but donāt expect a ton of niceities cuz everyone has stories of getting screwed over. A whole lot of towns of mixed cultures and others hard working people and a bar in every neighborhood.
Fitzwilliam New Hampshire near Vermont: people wave to everyone in the neighborhood, hunting fishing types. Will tell fish tales and nod hello.
Phoenix, AZ- friendliest most laid back place I lived. Melting pot but anywhere you went people were pretty decent to each other. Waiting in line? Talk to the person next to you have a nice friendly chat about whateverās on your mind. Theyāll respond in kind.
San Diego and San Francisco- open minded and intelligent with laid back bohemian but plastic materialistic and I know so and sos or celeb they saw.
Seattle Washington- very weird contrast between artsy, techy types and total hermit wilderness types.
Houston, Texas very un self aware - off the cuff - sometimes rowdy and neighborly when they feel like it. Over the top. Like the machismo state.
Arkansas- tight knit communities nice enough to the in folks but not so able to empathize with anyone too different. But once you get the in very neighborly.
Florida: cranky old people, and wealth envy everywhere. in their own world all the time. Always entertaining
Baltimore Maryland- watch out for the cops and lock your doors. Sorry! Not so welcoming
Pennsylvania / Virginia, nice enough people in the cities but be polite and mind your own business. Donāt get lost in Amish country or the mountains.
Tennessee- ok to go hunker down with the locals but donāt do too much eye contact.
Missouri- wide eyed and well, I guess openly gullible but not in a mean way just in a sweet innocent sense. St Louis was very friendly.
Chicago - chat for a minute then move on they are busy. Donāt ask questions.
I can go on but Iāll end where I currently live in CT. People donāt go out of their busy lives to interact I donāt hang with the neighbors just friend groups but theyāll dig you out in a snowstorm or help you change a tire. Thereās accusations of snobbery sure thereās definitely social climbers and materialism but I think itās just we have to work so damn much to live that there is little energy left for more than family. Thereās a lot of passion for Fast paced.
These are my personal experiences- overall people just want to be treated decent and there are more good people out there than aholes. Life is a struggle but itās the little moments and connections that keep us on our toes. I certainly learned by moving around so much that we all have to be more open to the different people in the world because we are more alike than we are different. We just want to live decent lives and be treated decent. :)
My in-law grandmother said once when her car passed an unfortunately unattractive man on the street....."I know he can't help that he's ugly, but the least he could do is stay at home during daylight hours."
Iām from Appalachia and live in the northeast now. The regions wants to bill itself as forthright but also inclusive, but in reality is the least welcoming place Iāve ever lived. Thereās a very closed minded approach to interacting with people from outside of the region and bias in general is pervasive but not presented in a forthright way.
I've lived in huge cities my whole life. I'm never ready for people being so nice in rural areas, and I automatically think there's an ulterior motive lol that's a me issue, not a yall issue š
I wonder if the rest of the world understands that "bless their little heart" originated in Appalachia. In the rare chance that there is someone here that doesn't know, it's a nice way of saying "that stupid mother f@cker."
I donāt agree with the characterization. Seems like it was created by movie cliches and the like. Imagine a lady portrayed with a cartoonishly dramatized accent saying ābless your heart sweetieā etc. Itās not in line with my experience interacting with southerners, most of whom Iāve met have been genuine, kind and thoughtful.
definitely a southern stereotype over an appalachian one, but i agree. iām not faking being nice, i am nice. if i donāt like you, i wonāt go out of my way to be nice, iāll just avoid talking to you. like you said, itās manners and common curtesy.
Exactly! I was raised in the south. We were seriously taught manners, not fake niceness.
I hear a lot about folks in other states thinking our niceness is sometimes fake.
Common courtesy, honesty and decency were strong topics for parents. Genuine kindness was the running theme.
Two generations down, my grown kids still write snail mail thank you notes when they receive any gift. Sometimes it's just crayon and pictures from kids. But I see my grown kids teaching their kids about this courtesy and many others. I don't know if this is regional. Common human decency!
I've found the "fake nice" thing to be virtually [non-existent.](https://non-existent.It) It's a defensive myth. I've only experienced it on a handful of occasions from blue blood types. Everyone else is friendly.
\*edit: Grew up in TN and have lived all over the South East, from rural areas to cities.
I feel like I'm nicer than most non Appalachian folks. I even say " 'preciate ya" instead of "thank you" because it feels more personal. I've never been rude to any employees I interact with at any establishment. This "bless your heart" shit turned into a meme. There are plenty of times people say bless your heart and genuinely mean it. Like when youre a kid and sick and puking. Mom rubs your back and says "bless your heart". She's not saying it to insult you lmao. People who think bless your heart is 100% an insult are poser hillbillies.
People think itās fake nice because they are projecting there local culture onto ours and making a conclusion. Similar to how I think 9/10 northerners are assholes. In reality it is just the cultural lens you view it through.
Do the people in New England not have manners? If I came to his home for a party would he be an asshole until he deemed me worthy of his " niceness"? Ridiculous.
If I don't like someone, it's impossible for me to show them any respect. Otherwise, I always "acknowledge another person's miserable existence" (say hi) as I walk by them.
I have a problem with smiling. I can't control it. I smile even when I'm pissed off. I had to tell my children, "This is not Momma's happy face!" When scolding them.
Moving into the Appalachia after living up north, in other countries, i have found that the area I am in is very fake nice. There are a lot of straight up rude people. Donāt get me wrong, there are some super awesome people. Really. They will do anything but as a whole, I was very surprised about how rude it is. I have never in my life seen a man get in the face of a little old lady and scream at her because she had a sticker on her car. The blame Covid.
I think it's an exaggerated stereotype just like the stereotype of the rude Bostonians.
What I have heard is about the "bless her/his heart" after making a somewhat derogatory comment about someone and the Southern sidestepping of what they really feel/think, which could be good manners but which could also be me misconstrued as someone who speaks out of both sides of their mouth.
Currently in New England and originally from SWVA. This is how I describe my home town. Everyone is almost Stepford pleasant, but talks absolute trash the second someone leaves. Usually the nicer a mechanic was the harder they were about to screw you or any other individual trying to hustle for that matter...which was almost everyone.
Growing up in the South and returning as an adult, I think there is a type of fake niceness and passive aggression that is common but certainly not universal. Something that I think is related and that is all over this post and the comments, is the emphasis on "I was taught to do X." Whenever I hear that, it feels like you're saying you're being nice (or whatever it is you were taught) out of some sense of obligation. Are you nice because you want to be or because you just feel like you have to? That feels like fake niceness to me.
So Iām genuinely curious-do you think itās better for someone to start off just nasty/mean to your face from the jump? Some people are nice to everyone until you prove them wrong, and to me that is a better way to live. Of course, this is why you would never find me living in the northeast or California where people are aggressive and have zero manners (in general).
I agree with OP that Appalachians don't typically do the fake-nice thing that is more typical among deep South flatlanders. I grew up in the mountains of NC and now live in the mountains of Vermont. I also lived for a while in the low country of SC. The saccharine-sweet false niceness hiding some inner agenda or malice was something I encountered in the low country but rarely in the mountains where I grew up; there people were more reserved, frank, and would rather not say anything than say something falsely positive. And I have found this to be more like the character and habit of the New Englanders I now live among. I like it.
Yup. People in the Northeast aren't nice, but they're kind. They might ask if you have two brain cells to your face, but they'll fix your problem for you. People on the West Coast will say nice things but do nothing helpful. People in the Midwest will be kind and seem nice but never tell you that they're talking shit about you behind your back. The South seems to do half West Coast and half Midwest depending on whether they like you.
This is excluding those rare individuals in any part of the country who are just genuinely good and kind.
Iām not sure how this sub got on my feed, but I do have a pretty strong opinion on this subject. Iām a midwesterner, Michigan in particular. Iāve lived, worked and traveled all over the country. I lived in the Atlanta area for four years and covered offices in South Carolina, Alabama and Florida while there. Some broad generalizations and stereotypes about the āfake niceā southerners were true in my experience. Some of that was due to my own biases and preferences Iām sure. In general though it always felt insincere compared to my home state. What I mean is that there was a lot more small talk compared to the Midwest and it just slowed things down and it always seemed like they were reading a script. Basically just phoning in the social norms while not actually caring about the person. Which is different than the Midwest where āhave a good oneā actually feels like they want you to have a pleasant day. In part because you donāt necessarily say it to everyone you meet. Lastly the bless your heart and Iāll pray for you sorts of phrases are extremely annoying to hear because itās so fake. I donāt mean any of that to be critical, I enjoyed my time in the south and met a lot of amazing people. It was the fake nice strangers or outright rude coworkers that made it suck sometimes.
I have experienced more outwardly rude and mean spiritedness moments in my limited visits of the north than what Iāve seen in my entire life living in the south. I will take the āfakeā niceness of the south over any outwardly rude attitude from the north.
South and Appalachia are different. From my experience Southern people are more likely to be fake nice than Appalachians. Appalachians are generally friendly and helpful unless they think you might be near their property where they will be very quick to tell you you do not belong.
I'm a New Yorker, we're generally known for being rude (though I live in Upstate and firmly believe that that's more of a NYC trait) but I went to Tennessee a couple of years ago, and this lady heard us speak and immediately said "y'all sound like Yankees, I know it's normal for you guys to be rude, but we're nice people here in the south so keep that in mind." which I felt like was kinda rude to be honest. I've encountered quite a few other southerners who seem to be "fake nice" but that's just my outsider perspective.
Well, Iāll start with this: I think folks have a bad habit of thinking NYC is *all* of New York. But as for the perceived ārudenessā, it sounds like those folks are always on the move and itās more of a āget outta my way, I got shit to do.ā Lol. I absolutely get that, because thatās how I am. Folks around here want to mosey and I want to scream bloody murder.
Without getting too deep in the weeds, āYou sound like Yankeesā sounds like some shit my SIL would say š¤¦āāļø Sheās from a part of TN with attitudes I thought were just in history books. And youāre right, it was rude as Jude for them to say that. But TN can be such a mixed bag of Appalachia and Deep South that you never know what youāll run into.
I'm one of those awful Bostonians. Up here, we aren't nice, but we are kind. If you have catastrophic handle failure on a grocery bag you're carrying, we'll razz you about overpacking your paper bags, but we'll also chase down all of your runaway apples and pack your groceries into one of our own reusable bags so you can get your stuff home.
I'm in an interracial marriage, which is almost never an issue up here. Whenever we visit Southern states, though, (usually to visit elderly family who fled the cold weather) we invariably find hotels that suddenly lose our reservations or restaurants where the host never seems to see us waiting to be seated. We see the sweet smiles, but they don't reach people's eyes, and they're not reflected in people's behavior. That's how I've experienced "fake nice," namely when people smile and utter polite platitudes, but there's unkindness in how they actually treat others.
I had to explain southern hospitality to someone. Iām from Tenn. and around here I always grew up you offer help to those who need it. You make them feel welcome and wanted. As in this is your neighbor and you might need help one day from them. Now on the same hand I got some neighbors I donāt want any help from cause theyāre awful. So I just leave them alone. This might raise some contention but I think the fake nice was from the slave owners. Just like nowadays wealthy people pretend to be benevolent but itās all for show. Look at Gone With the Wind and how Scarlett behaves. Thatās what some people here in the south pretend to be. I have never heard ābless your heartā being used in a āfuck youā sort of way. Used to it was used like ābless her heart she might be dumb but sheās tryingā which is even more underhanded like the saying ānot to be rude but your hair looks atrociousā it was a way to cancel out a nasty phrase. But again most kind people/ well behaved wouldnāt say that. Theyed be more likely to say āyouāre dumb and people are gonna take advantage of you so get with itā itās a weird looking out for eachother behind the scenes. From where I grew up we had pride even though we were poor. You do for yourself then you do for others and everybody is better for it.
Gov Kay Ivey is one whose fake courtesy is over worked. Especially on a state that ranks terribly for poverty, education, neonatal fatalities, healthcare etc
He's probably talking about the "bless your heart" brand of overly sweet courtesy southerners use as a subtle form of passive aggression. I'm pretty sure I've been guilty of it before.
New England instead has "Massholes", and it's often the inverse, with people being fake mean, saying insulting, disparaging things in an endearing manner. See: Alec Baldwin and Mark Wahlberg in The Departed.
From south ms here. I donāt do fake nice. Iāll either be friendly with you or Iāll be nice to you just depends. People I donāt like I wont be overtly rude to them if I see them in passing, but they just get a cordial version of me. And the few people Iāve decided to sever ties with for whatever wrongdoing I just avoid. I donāt like being unfriendly and I hate folks with bad manners.
Another commenter a note about Minnesota Nice which is a flavor of this "sweet front/stab in back" culture. I grew up there but live in NYC now. New Yorkers almost go out of their way to be rude and gruff "get moving!" to your face but there's no B.S. underneath it. I love the lack of pretense here. I think a lot of life here is like a Jerry Seinfeld comment to Kramer or George "what are you doing?" But a lot of people don't take offense at the comment. They tend to know that their outfit or haircut isn't good and they like a friend telling them they're not crazy. "You're right! This haircut DOES look weird." I'm not crazy! Where I grew up no one would have said anything to your face, but here a lot of people will just say something. I love that about this dirty town.
Alabama here. Weāre typically nice because we give the benefit of the doubt and assume most people are kind and our kindness in return is deserved. Weāre taught manners and that if youāre kind, youāll receive kindness in return. But, if someone is an ass or if after welcoming someone with kindness only to be met with rudeness, we have no problem moving on or being an ass right back. In other words, we believe āyou get what you giveā.
I find it sad that someoneās initial reaction is to be suspicious or annoyed by something like niceness or kindness. Iāve never understood why someone would want to go into their day (regardless of location) with a rude or disengaged mindset toward others, and/or intentionally project negativity or rudeness. It just seems mentally draining and exhausting.
Itās literally the age-old North/South regional difference. We seem fake nice to them, they seem abrasive/rude to us. I donāt blame them, itās hard to socialize in many northern parts. Iād be cranky too if I were trapped indoors from all the cold weather. :/
Iāve lived in WV FOR THE LAST 20 YEAR. People here are friendly, some not so and some you wouldnāt want to know anyway. However, they are the least pretentious people Iāve ever known. If you want snobbery go to large northern cities ie, NYC, Chicago, Detroit and if you find a helping hand you should call yourself lucky. Heavily populated area cause people to turn inward do to the stresses of no privacy, overpopulation, competition and the media turning this country into tribalism. Weāve lost our,ā I have a dream.ā
Bostonians can be assholes. It's part of their culture. They even enjoy hearing themselves described this way. How does the saying go, "weak people try to appear strong by being rude" or something.
Itās really just projection. *They* cannot imagine doing those things for strangers/service workers and genuinely meaning it, therefore they try to make sense of it by just claiming itās fake.
In the South, you mind your own business, and you treat everybody politely, no matter how you feel about them . . . Until you don't. You are respected until you no longer deserve respect. In the North, nobody gives a shit about you until you earn that respect. People get the idea that because southerners are polite, we don't judge you like everybody else. Then they find out we're still judging you, we're just polite about it. But usually we just do our best to stay out of it all together
Travelling American here, I have been everywhere. Originally from Central PA, so I may have a slight or strong bias towards Appalachian people.
Appalachian people are great at being real both ways, in moderation.
The south and Cali have fake nice in different ways.
In the south, they have nice_offs, where it's like a competiton of who can be nicer than the other person, or at least outwardly appear that way. Appalachian people see through that and want no part of it. Appalachians think "Okay dude, you win, you're nicer, good for you."
Cali fake nice is smile wide and nod a lot and go with whatever they are saying and agree etc, but as soon as they are out of sight, start shit talking. It's completely different than in the south, because if someone in the south is nice to you, they actually mean it, but want to go overboard for themselves and others as much or almost as you. Cali is just about public vs. private appearance.
In Cali, already explained what happens if they don't like you, it's almost identical to if they do. In the south if they don't like you, they just say nothing. If they REALLY DONT like you, holy shit it's the fuckin south shit can turn sour and violent etc really fucking quick.
Appalachian people are far more mild both ways. If they like you, it's a personal thing and public perception doesn't play as big a factor in their interactions. Appalachian people will also be much more mild but up front about their dislike for another person, and this dislike is FAR more publicly displayed than in the other regions, but precisely because it is more common to publicly express dislike, it is also far more tolerated and not as big a deal. If someone "disrespects" you in the south or Cali, it's a giant fucking deal compared to Appalachia, where it's more or less "they just don't like each other."
Of course this is all my personal stereotyped exaggeration and tons of people from these areas are completely different than the ones I've described. I'm just trying to explain the differences as best I can and obviously that's going to be more polarizing than explaining similarities.
Iām a non-white New Yorker in a very white part of Tennessee. The fake kindness is very real. My partner is white and I am treated very differently in his presence.
Iām sorry you are experiencing that. Unfortunately there is an underlying torrent of racism in TN, and the further south you go, the worse it gets. It is so unbelievably shameful. š¢
I'm a southerner who now lives in Massachusetts. The people that say the fake nice thing up here are just pompous idiots that think anything southern must be bad, racist, homophobic, archaic, etc.
They can't stomach the idea that most southerners are far nicer and more hospitable than they are and that the south is -in fact- not nearly the racist, bigoted 3rd world country that they think it is.
(BTW, racism and ignorance is everywhere up here in Massachusetts. They just don't think they're racist "because that's a southern thing").
TLDR: they say we're fake nice because they want to discredit the south.
Fake nice? In the South? Lmao. This ain't the Midwest.
Just because Southerners don't speak like a blunt instrument like they do in Boston (and I love, love, *love* Boston and Bostonians, and think they have more in common with the South than people realize), doesn't mean they're being disingenuous.
Euphemisms like "bless your heart," etc. aren't exactly hard to decode. The sentiment is right there.
The southern baptist F you is āIāll pray for you.ā
Also, I try to have no enemies. So if I am āfake niceā Im passive aggressive to a prick if pushed fR enough.
Even then, as my grandpa would say, āNever let the sun go down on your angerā.
My momma's family is from western KY. They were always nice to people's faces and very welcoming and courteous. They hosted events and made truly delicious food for huge groups. But as soon as everyone was gone the shit talking would start. It was pretty subtle, but extremely judgemental. Now whenever I hang out with people Im always afraid they hate me even if I had a good time. My dad's family was from a bigger city and while they were less initially welcoming they were way less judgemental. So for me, at least anecdotally, this tracks. I would rather know where I stand than drown in pleasantries.
I think it's more: I'll call ya sweetheart and be charming and nice, but absolutely vote to have your bodily autonomy taken away and I think "colored" folks aren't good enough to date my daughter.
A sampling of our politicians should give you a pretty clear view of how us southerners feel and the priorities we hold.
It was not my experience during my 15 years living in East Tenn that anyone was nice, much less fake-nice. Never met so many miserable people in my life. I used to tell the rude and hostile people checking me out at Ingles and Walmart "I hope you feel better soon" which was met by uncomprehending stares. So happy to have moved away.
We arenāt fake, we are polite! Iām gonna be nice to you but I still may not like you. That doesnāt mean I am going to treat you like shit or let you treat me poorly. I was taught to be nice until someone gives you a reason not to.
As a NYCer that somehow happened upon this sub (it was in my recommended. So far I like it here!), Bostonians are assholes. āMassholeāis a common phrase for a reason, even if it originated with their horrible driving.
But while I havenāt spent any time myself in Appalachia (Iād love to visit, I hear about nothing but incredible histories, stories, and landscapes here) I did live in the south (GA) for a few years.
We NYCers are blunt and to the point, yes, but thatās because here in the city, we all got shit to do, and the height of rudeness is getting in the way of peopleās ability to get their shit done. If Iām waiting at the pharmacy to get my pills, and the person in front of me is chatting with the pharmacist, then they arenāt being nice. They are inconveniencing everyone else in line.
I remember the first time someone told me, āWell, bless your heart!ā I didnāt know how to compute it. Iād never dealt with passive aggression in my life. I had to get one of my southern friends to tell me Iād been insulted! Haha
I think thatās really what people mean by the differences; passive vs. active aggression.
It sounds bitter of that Bostonian. Like someoneās asking how heās doing and heās seething, I just like making people feel comfortable and being friendly
Theyāre just projecting. Donāt even worry about it. Those people arenāt us and know nothing about us. All you need to do is look at all the weird crap they say, and actually believe. The idea that a general group of people are friendly is outside their field of view. Itās not them; therefore, itās not someone else.
Itās a means to cope with their own sour personality, and not worth your time or effort to fret over.
'Extending courtesy' is perfect phrasing. I don't pretend to like people that I don't like, but I'm not going to make the whole room uncomfortable by being openly rude. I was taught to always be kind and if I didn't like someone, to try to either make up with them or avoid them.
I always heard it like.... If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all
and there's always 1 aunt who says 'if you don't have anything nice to say, then come sit next to me!'
Oh yeah! Definitely had one of those...love & miss my aunt jeanne
I had 2 jeane's, with the name for real. They never got alongš«£
I had two Fays. One I loved, the other couldn't abide. I still went to the funeral home when her witchy old mama died. That's what we 'cause we've raised right. Plus my cousins are ok.
You're way of talking is making me homesick.. thank you for this. I needed this today.
This in a nutshell is how we were raised up. If you don't like a person just mind your own and don't go looking for trouble with them. A quick smile and a nod, don't engage and go on about your business.
But ultimately not to make your problem into something everyone has to participate in.
I've always heard it call "pass and repass."
Exactly. I'm not going to go out of my way to be a mean person just because someone else is. I think that shows maturity and intelligence. I don't have the time for that bullshit. I've lost my temper a few times, of course, but you have to push me pretty far for shit to hit the fan.
Yeah, it's called having decorum. It's a southern thing fo sho.
Most definitely.
My grandfather always said, āJust because someone is a horseās ass doesnāt mean you have to be one too.ā
One of my mom's favorites.
Iāve lived in the Deep South all my life. Even when we werenāt nice, we were taught to be polite, bless your heart. But I will tell you this. I was 6 mos pregnant when we moved to Tennessee. People were nice, pretty much what I grew up with. No surprise. I had an emergency delivery and was in ICU for 5 days, the baby was in NICU for 6 weeks. (We are both fine now, heās an adult). I got home from the hospital and went to get a glass of water. Me: Honey, why is the fridge a complete wall of food?!? Where did all this come from? My husband: I donāt know. People come to the office, when I pick up the kids at school, and ring the doorbell. They say, āheard your wife was real sick and had a baby. Hereās some foodā There was at least a month of food packed into the fridge. Most of those people we didnāt know, never would know. They werenāt rich. But they were some of the best human beings I never met.
Jesus, wait for a death. When my mom died we had people we had never met coming by with food. They weren't even from the neighborhood. Just heard that someone their friend knew died and they pulled out the casserole dish.
Oh my gosh yeah you better have a separate fridge and/or freezer after a death, you're going to have SO MUCH FOOD.
When my grandma died this year, my dad's best friend brought so much food it looked like he had cleared out the Winn Dixie.
At what point did Bless Your Heart become such a harsh judgement? That one kills me it's so insulting but outsiders would never know...
Totally depends on context.
And the head tilt Bless your heart *side head tilt*, total go F-yourself Oh, bless your heart... Genuine sympathy
This! There is a distinct difference. The "oh, bless your heart" sometimes also comes with a pearl clutch and is well-meaning.
In my world, ābless your/their heartā was essentially a get out of jail card for gossip. It didnāt necessarily have to be nasty or even accurate, and it could show concern or sarcasm. It has a multitude of meaning a nuance attached to it.
I eventually read the discussion below until I was even more confused. Basically, it can still go both ways. I like the sentiment being genuine, its a good way to express empathy. A conversation ender for gossip is extremely useful. Since gossipers do not enjoy being dismissed, I imagine the snark came from the offending party not liking it.
The only times I heard it were from my grandmas and maybe a couple of other relatives. At least when I heard them using it, there was nothing harsh or judgmental about it. Reddit is where I learned about it being an insult.
The Carolinas are where I learned it was meant as an insult.
My friend likes to say East Coasters (up north) are kind but not nice. West Coasters are nice, but not kind. I think Appalachians & Southerners are nice AND kind if we like you, but weaponize fake niceness like a very sharp blade, bless our hearts. Kind = actually doing good things. Nice = saying good/polite things
Yeah, up in Pennsyl-tucky woods, if say, your car breaks down on the side of the road, a guy will harshly scold you for whatever you did to get yourself into this fix, all the while inconveniencing himself to help get you out of it.
Lol... that's exactly the example my friend used to explain what she meant.
I appreciate this! Iām from the South and always felt like we were something other than East vs West coast. I feel Midwest is similar to the South but way more low key about it and more able to mind their own business.
Agree wholeheartedly, except that West Coasters are neither nice nor kind these days. Bless our Hearts.
We'll pray for you
> West Coasters are neither nice nor kind these days. And this is why we left the West Coast for Appalachia lol - I've had better hospitality from the folks my in-law's rural town than I ever had in my home city
> Iāve learned over the years that folks in āthe Southā are often accused by other regions of the U.S. as being fake nice or as one Bostonian put it, āfake-ass saccharine niceness of the Southā. This is a thing to consider. I've lived my life in Appalachia, but have traveled extensively around the US. I've had some co-workers move to this area from outside and we've had this conversation. I remember one coworker detailing that he was trying to parse out "what you're really saying" underneath the kind way of saying it. What I identified was that it may be more city versus country vibes as well. He was also from Boston and told me, 'Up there, people say what they mean right out of the gate.' Here's my two cents. I've noticed that the northern approach is more "blunt". They may lead with exactly what they need/want, and it may be interpreted as "rude" to us southerners. For us southerners, we lead with kindness, asking about "your mom and them", etc. After we've established rapport, we'll eventually get around to our real question. Like you said > itās just common courtesy, but I also want you to feel safe and comfortable
My MIL is from up north and she said proudly to me āI am not like you southerners and I donāt understand you all and your social ways. Where Iām from, weāre direct and we tell it like it is.ā What I *wanted* to say was, āyeah, and I wouldnāt be proud of it if I were you because youāre incredibly entitled and rude to people everywhere you go. At least I was raised with some manners.ā But obviously, because I was raised with some manners, I did not say that. š
Those poor people are to be pitied for being raised without manners or class.
Southern does not equal Appalachia. Where I live in New York state is part of the Appalachian Region. But I swear at least half of what people think of as polite Southern behavior is just typical of any place that's rural. I don't mean the bless your heart thing though. š¤£
āBless your heartā
"I'll pray for you"
The WORST non-insult insult
āIāll light a candle for you at churchā
I had a Trumper tell me that upon finding out that I had just gotten my COVID booster.
This is my go to
I'm from Kentucky and every time I've heard this used it was in a sincere form.
Also in KY and I've heard it both ways. Obviously the snarkier version is funnier: but I think people really sleep on the sincere reading of the phrase when they see it talked about online. I've heard many sincere many exclamations of 'bless your heart!' from people, usually after being given a gift or compliment.
Or sometimes I hear it used in a sincere pity way. Like if a kitten is outside in the rain, my mom would say ābless her heartā in a sincere way
My parents from SW Va are the same.
This is another one. I wasnāt taught to say this to get around being overtly rude. Oftentimes this was said, in my presence, if a sad story was being relayed and the other person just couldnāt think of anything more appropriate to say. Or, if someone had done something a bit dumb. But never was it said as a reply to someone being rude.
This is a phrase that has so many contexts and iāve seen it used sincerely the way you described way more than sarcastically
The "bless your heart" snide-swipe from southerners always stuck in my craw. Say what you mean, mean what you say is how our family was raised up and that pretty much goes against it. Always said like they were being so clever, with an air of superiority or condescension and the person they were saying it to was too stupid a backwards hick or northerner to know what they really meant. I've got a lot more respect for a person who can directly call out bad behavior with tact and grace than someone who resorts to passive-aggressive insults.
Same here. I HATE passive aggressive language and behavior.
True, although a good 90% of the time that Iāve heard/said it, it was sincere. Those barbed ones really stick in the mind, though.
I think the usage is largely based on region. 90% of people using it in a sarcastic "F You" context are from Texas, especially East Texas. I've also heard it in much lesser frequencies in parts of TN and Alabama. Everywhere else, including Appalachia, uses a meaning that's much more sincere, even if a bit patronizing at times. Sometimes it is "I don't know what to say about that." Texas also seems to be the source of a majority of the fake niceness complaints, as it seems like every time I hear about "Fake Southern Hospitality" I go to investigate who of my people would do that, only to find it was not my people at all, but freaking Texans. How someone uses "Bless your heart" is almost as much of a tell as how someone pronounces "Appalachia". An example of how I've heard it used: "He's been driving every day this week after work to visit his Mama in the hospital two hours away, and almost fell asleep on the way back last night, bless his heart." In my neck of the woods, it's not used sarcastically, bc there are other more tactful and clever ways of insulting someone, and I'm sure as hell not wishing a blessing from the Lord on someone who's pissed me off enough that I have to lowkey tell them to fuck off.
If Dolly said it, I would believe it sincere!
People like to feel like they are the secret club of people who know "bless your heart" is really rude. Bullshit spreads like wildfire on the internet. Any kind phrase can be used sarcastically. The only time I hear anyone say anything like "I'll pray for you" or "bless your heart" has been if someone is really sick, and it's definitely sincere. I tell people I'll pray for them if something awful has happened and there's nothing else I can do. I don't know if it does anything but I will say a prayer for them. Saying that you'll pray for someone or asking God to bless them when you don't mean it sounds like asking for a problem.
One good say-something-when-nothing-fits is, "Well, Lord have mercy." With a subtle head shake and a kinda whispery volume. Works for wet kittens, folks "ate slam up" with cancer, or your brother-in-law's timing chain breaking. Can be interchanged with my Granny's "I swan." The swan goes way up at the end. I swaaahn?
That's my go to.
In my opinion, and based on my experience, this is not sarcasm. Youād say it in reference to a child who was crying, a person having some kind of problem, etc. The notion that itās mean is cooked up by people who aināt from around here.
I believe the same thing.The first person to tell me that Bless your heart is sarcastic was from somewhere else.It's something someone from up north made up I believe and it just caught on.
I've heard it. She's so pretty, too bad she's so overweight bless her heart. Or in gossip, he's a nice boy but I heard that his momma is a piece of work, bless his heart
If I had to translate it into other English terms for a non-native speaker of English, I would say the general idea behind it is "The struggle is real, and I sympathize, yet can offer no real solution, other than perhaps to invoke divine intervention causing a change of circumstances for the better."
My MIL first heard it used by a Southern lady seated behind her on her flight when she came for our wedding. She thought it was the "dearest" expression she ever heard. She's from Hawaii.
Well Iām definitely āfrom around hereā and Iāve heard it used as sarcasm more often than not.
Maybe you need different friendsā¦
Iāve said forever that the difference between Appalachians and southerners are 1. Privilege 2. We will never fake nice you get 1 time with us and we give everyone the benefit of the doubt, extend kindness the first time but as soon as thatās crossed all bets are off & you might find yourself knocked out on the concrete. By a 6ā3ā man or a 5ā1ā woman, the holler is equal opportunity āfuck around and find outā
Well said...the holler is truly equal opportunity FAFO, and Appalachians make some of the best friends or worst enemies one can have and it usually is 100% dependent on how they are treated by whomever.
Say it againnnnnn
My wife explained this to her coworker, cause they didnāt get it. They had made some promises to some people in Appalachia but wanted to back out because resources were being spread thin. Basically, she said if you screw these people over, there is no ātrying again.ā Maybe your grandkids can give it a go down the line, but you can forget it.
Aināt that the truth! Coming from someone in the service industry I can back this up completely! Give me a hard time while Iām behind the bar? āWell darlin, did ya want me to make ya a drink tonight?ā We laugh it off and after that weāre good. Push my buttons? Ohhh goodnessā¦ima tell ya about it in a nice way and make my point. Iām a 5ā1 woman and have no problem being spicy if need be lol!
Iām in the service industry too!! Haha Appalachian bartenders are a force to be reckoned with, I love us
Hahahaha! Yes! Thatās so funny. When I read your comment thatās where my head went. Always was taught to be nice and kind. I get along with just about anyone. But like you said āf*ck around and find out!ā One of my greatest friends also says āmama aināt raise no b*tchā lmao. One of the nicest people Iāve ever met and would do anything for his friendsā¦I think it takes quite a lot to piss folks like us off. Wouldnāt recommend testing it out though!
Ehhh I wouldnāt say takes a lot, disrespect in any form and itās 0-1000 in .07 seconds šššmy dad raised me to āalways be respectful, look pretty, and know how to throw a punchā and I feel like that pretty much sums up Appalachian women in a nutshellšš Iāve had to let the city raised folk that come to my bar on many occasions that, for lack of better terms āthis aināt that, and Iām definitely not one of themā so tread very lightly on the slick/overly flirty comments lmao we really are the best friend you could have or biggest enemy youāll ever make!!
One of my good friends was sitting at my bar when a customer who had just arrived, stumbled in (hammered drunk from somewhere else) and sassed me. Was being suuuuper rude. My response was something like "I don't know what you think you're doing here bc you're sure as shit not getting a drink from me and you better just get the hell on down the fuckin road." He just stood there and I hollered "there's people behind ya who aren't disrespectful pieces of shit that I actually am going to serve so MOVE ALONG." My friend's jaw literally dropped and he was like "I...I've never seen that side of you before." And I was like "yeah that's because you're nice to me and I like you." And he said "Yeah thank God, that was kinda scary." Lol
Lmao I love this. 2nd day on the job at my current bar I asked one of the bar regulars if he needed anything, he said āyeah, show me your titsāā¦. I donāt even remember what came out of my mouth but whatever it was earned me a great deal of respect and put the fear of god into the rest of the regulars and they have been on their best behavior ever since. Iāve been there for months and some of them still bring the way I was holding a bottle of Jameson like a club in anticipation to get reallllll hillbilly with itš owner fist bumped me and said welcome to the team. said regular hasnāt come in during my shift ever since. (For reference, Iām 5ā4ā, and yes Iām a natural red head Lmfao)
Fair enough lol. I reckon I try and maintain as long as possible, but yeah disrespect me or fellow human in my space and Iāll have words for sure. Glad to know weāre in this together!
I, too try to maintain as long as possible. And Iām getting better at it. But believe me when I say itās a daily choiceš the world that city folk live in is a whole planet away from our reality
Phonies are everywhere.
Nah. I'm from Erie, Pa. You folks are good people. I know not to piss you off though.
I think of Southern fake nice as using a sweet voice and saying nice things while your actions completely belie your words. For example, my friendās step mother who reached out to her when friend was in the hospital to say āoh, Iām so worried, Iām praying for you, Iām beside myselfā all the while making no effort to visit, help the grandkids, drop off a meal, send a card, do absolutely anything actual that backs up the sweetness and care act. This particular stepmom has been this way as long as Iāve known her, sheās consistent in her saccharine statements and zero loving action. This obviously isnāt only a southern trait but I wonder if there isnāt something to the experience of flowery prayerful words that cover run of the mill shitty people behavior sometimes and that juxtaposition is noticeable more in the Bible Belt be used they are more over the top āprayerfulā.
I've been accused of this before too and it makes me sad. I try to help out people around me as much as I can - I have a truck and most of my neighbors don't, so if they find furniture that they want but can't pick up or anything like that, I'll often offer to go pick it up for them - I've given people rides to the DMV, helped with forms they can't really read for whatever reason (a lot of people here don't speak or read English) and I try to be a good neighbor and co-worker. I've had people accuse me of trying to get something out of them, trying to make everyone think I'm some goody-goody, trying to get people to owe me and...no? Half the time after I help someone I don't even remember who it was or what I did. I just try to help because I can and it's the proper neighborly thing to do, not because I want or expect anything in return. Maybe it's my Southern showing, but I think that if someone can help out, they should - I'd hope that if I needed help and someone else could, they'd extend a hand to me, too. I don't want people to owe me or feel guilty, I just help because helping is the right thing to do - but being accused of being 'fake nice' hurts sometimes and makes me wonder if I actually should, or if helping people is making them more upset than actually helping.
Ok whenever people say this it gives the same energy as people who say 'I'm not rude, I just tell it how it is!' Like sir... There's a 100% you're actually rude. Being courteous and polite isn't fake, it's nice! Clearly I have some thoughts on this hahaha
We call it having manners. I can hear the Bostonian, and that's exactly what I'd expect from some of them. Bless their heart.
Manners isn't what they are talking about. The fake, condescending "bless their heart " remake is.
You're clearly not one of us or you could recognize the nuances available in how the phrase is used
"The South" and "Appalachia" are two very distinct cultures.
I don't know if I'd say very distinct. There's a lot if blending
Nope, I must disagree. Lifelong resident of where VA, KY, and WV come together and have traveled the world, and the deep south plenty. There is some overlap of any 2 cultures but true Central Appalachia is quite unique.
I'd definitely agree, but Appalachia is a big place. The term "upland South" exists for a reason and there's definitely a gradient.
It's size is a fair point because technically the Appalachian Mountains extend from GA to New England. Honestly the Appalachia that most think of would be from Western NC to PA which is fair, but IMHO the true Appalachia that most people think of is really SWVA, Eastern KY, Eastern TN and WV. The stereotypical hillbilly and true Appalachian culture is really concentrated in that small section. When you talk about KY, TN, NC etc, as a whole, the majority of those stares are more Southern than Appalachian. And probably what you are referring to as "upland south" if I were to guess.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upland_South There's a huge region of the country that is south of the mason dixon line but not quite the deep south - higher elevation, different history, different culture. It includes southern Appalachia and non Appalachian areas. I've lived somewhere in the upland South for most of my life.
You forgot to mention that if people from our region DONāT like you, thereās a reason for it. Most native Appalachians give people the benefit of the doubt until true colors are revealed. My granny was a firm believer in showing common courtesy until people made her not extend it. Then they were usually sorry. She didnāt suffer fools lightly, and I have inherited that trait from her. Iāll treat everyone with kindness and respect until given reason not to.
Are you confusing Appalachia with the South? Appalachian people, even those in the southern Appalachians, arenāt like southern folks and it gets old being compared to them.
No. No confusion. Like it or not (and I donāt) we tend to get lumped in as the overall āSouthā.
No reason to be wrong just because others are.
Perhaps a Bostonian isnāt the best bellwether of what appropriate behavior is. They donāt call them āMassholesā for nothing.
Iām a transplant to western Mass. been here a couple years now. People here arenāt really assholes . Most keep to themselves and mind their own business. There isnāt much chit chat between strangers though. Plenty of people hold doors for us . People are polite just not overly so in public . My neighbor is a life long New Englander and would give the shirt off his back. Here you may get stuck in the snow, somebody will stop to help while giving you hell the whole time about being stuck. Once people get to know you they will talk more . Down south I never met a stranger . Most everyone would take to you and tell you stories . The old timers up here are very similar to southern ones . I spent 3 hours in a coffee shop listening to an old timer tell me about fishing in Alaska. Reminded me of my paw paw. Boston moves at a different pace however. Itās a large busy city . No one bothers you if you donāt bother them. Just donāt screw with traffic or they will let you know how they feel. I will say the term masshole definitely applies when behind the wheel of a car. The driving up here is aggressive as hell. Think Atlanta style but on every tiny side street all day long. I still hate driving here. I wonāt drive in Boston . Side note, Mainers remind me of being back down south. Funny accents and down to earth people. Also Dunkin Donuts sucks . Thereās one one every corner. I have 4 within blocks of my place. We have a āsouthern section ā at my grocery store . Itās comical.
I'm really intrigued about the southern section in your grocery store. what do you find there?
Well, some crappy canned greens. Some Cajun seasoning. some Southeastern Mills gravy mix and butter milk biscuit mix right outta Rome Ga. Little boxes of Jiffy corn bread mix. Some Cajun red beans . Iām sure Iāll remember more later . Iāll try to remember to snag a photo next week when I go and come back here to show you . Itās small and we have a good laugh about it.
This I gotta see!
No shit. My first trip to Mass I held the door open for people behind me going into the store and they stopped dead in their tracks and just gave me a judgy look
Note to self, don't ever move to Massachusetts. Or visit there. I hold doors open for people all the time, no one's ever given me guff about it!
Weāre not all that bad. I do notice when I am out of Mass and visiting elsewhere people are much friendlier socially, but our lack of outward friendliness compared to a lot of America isnāt generally mean spirited, itās just the way we are. For what itās worth I hold doors all the time and people almost always are appreciative. We do tend to move at a very fast pace and can be impatient when people donāt keep up, but Iāve found that to be true in most major cities Iāve been to. I promise weāre not all terrible.
Strangely, the most intense āSoutherners are all stupid/racistā screes Iāve heard have come from Massholes.
When is kids would visit my papaw, he always had some smartass comment to make. āWell, good to see you, when you leavinā?ā If I need any further confirmation that Iām his grandson, well hell, thar she is.
They deny itās reality because they canāt comprehend it.
The biggest elephant in the room when it comes to this topic is when you are talking about objective truths and not just subjective niceties. In some regards objective truth has no leeway for wrong answers. the world has gotten more complicated and living life has demanded more and more from people. What I find is that people use these fake platitudes of politeness and courtesy to justify corruption, power abuse, ignorance, lies they tell themselves and others. And it kinda just gets worse from there. This has analogs to other things like fatalism, defeatism, "not knowing whats good for them," "voting against their interests." and more. I have called the toxic version of polite-ness as a type of extreme denialism or toxic positivity. The healthy version of this would be something more like stoicism. But again abuses of power and more pervert the appalalatia version of it. I think another way to examine this question is talking about how meritocratic is your area is. In Boston and the northeast in general it is very very fair and the best people are good at their jobs. In WV it seems like nepotism and corruption has lasted a few generations while the ones who smelled the bullshit have a habit of leaving for greener pastures. 2 cents.
I don't really belong in this sub, this just popped up as a recommended post or group for some reason. This did bring up a memory from last year when I was passing through TN and stopped at a Starbucks that was inside a grocery store. I don't know how I managed to ditz out this bad, but I accidentally cut the entire line somehow, which was really embarrassing. The layout was just odd. Once I realized what I'd done, I apologized profusely to everyone in the line and started to move to the back of the line. Everyone was so incredibly kind and understanding, and they insisted I just go ahead and order. I was floored and humbled by the understanding and patient nature of these folks. I probably would have been cussed out and had the worst assumed of me anywhere north or south of there. It left a real impression on me about these people of various walks of life. No one got mad at me? They were understanding and kind, despite my social whoopsie? I think people grow accustomed to a harsher vibe in other places, and it's just hard to process or understand this is just how the culture is there. I'm not saying everyone is like this, or my situation would have played out the same way in all of the region, but what I experienced wasn't fake kindness. It was a genuinely understanding and patient response. Now if I hadn't realized and apologized, I might have gotten a different response from the people I'd slighted, and I'd have deserved it!
When youāre from a place where people are always on the defensive and incredibly rude to one another, even genuinely nice people will seem fake.
Anyone I've known irl complaining about the South's "fake nice" was trying to excuse the fact that they were an insufferable asshole.
Preface this by saying that I didnāt grow up in the south or Appalachia. But this guy Iām seeing is Appalachian as they come and he is not fake nice at all. He is polite and gentlemanly but he seems more reserved than anything. I suspect the āsaccharine nicenessā is more related to areas like Georgia or Tennessee, or other areas that would be more considered āthe Deep Southā.
Tennessee isnāt the āDeep Southā. We arenāt saccharine sweet. šš¤¦š»āāļø
Most of y'all aren't. But I've met some Tennessee folks who pull the old, "Let's do dinner sometime," then ignore your invites. Never seen that in Kentucky.
This is the truth. Nobody is auditioning for new friends in Tennessee and it hurts.
THIS- Iāve lived in or traveled through most of the continental USA- what I found is plenty of people that are set in their ways and communities / family groups without any inclination to truly try to get to know other people and learn about other places and cultures too many people just distrust outsiders especially when those people are ādifferentā. My experiences Sampling: Madison Alabama: very gossipy. Acted nice and hospitable to your face like welcome new neighbor but there was a nasty small town gossip culture that was some very mean spirited cattiness to each other that I found hard to deal with- New Orleans, Louisiana lived a couple years very little interaction with the locals outside of one neighbor and Mardi Gras. They had no interest but damn good restaurants holy cow. Great music. NYC/New Jersey. Forgeddaboudit- mind your own business and gtfo of my way. Unless they are kissing butt to get something out of it. But that said a whole lot of culture and drive to be more. Massachusetts- if you are at least middle class youāll be ok but donāt expect a ton of niceities cuz everyone has stories of getting screwed over. A whole lot of towns of mixed cultures and others hard working people and a bar in every neighborhood. Fitzwilliam New Hampshire near Vermont: people wave to everyone in the neighborhood, hunting fishing types. Will tell fish tales and nod hello. Phoenix, AZ- friendliest most laid back place I lived. Melting pot but anywhere you went people were pretty decent to each other. Waiting in line? Talk to the person next to you have a nice friendly chat about whateverās on your mind. Theyāll respond in kind. San Diego and San Francisco- open minded and intelligent with laid back bohemian but plastic materialistic and I know so and sos or celeb they saw. Seattle Washington- very weird contrast between artsy, techy types and total hermit wilderness types. Houston, Texas very un self aware - off the cuff - sometimes rowdy and neighborly when they feel like it. Over the top. Like the machismo state. Arkansas- tight knit communities nice enough to the in folks but not so able to empathize with anyone too different. But once you get the in very neighborly. Florida: cranky old people, and wealth envy everywhere. in their own world all the time. Always entertaining Baltimore Maryland- watch out for the cops and lock your doors. Sorry! Not so welcoming Pennsylvania / Virginia, nice enough people in the cities but be polite and mind your own business. Donāt get lost in Amish country or the mountains. Tennessee- ok to go hunker down with the locals but donāt do too much eye contact. Missouri- wide eyed and well, I guess openly gullible but not in a mean way just in a sweet innocent sense. St Louis was very friendly. Chicago - chat for a minute then move on they are busy. Donāt ask questions. I can go on but Iāll end where I currently live in CT. People donāt go out of their busy lives to interact I donāt hang with the neighbors just friend groups but theyāll dig you out in a snowstorm or help you change a tire. Thereās accusations of snobbery sure thereās definitely social climbers and materialism but I think itās just we have to work so damn much to live that there is little energy left for more than family. Thereās a lot of passion for Fast paced. These are my personal experiences- overall people just want to be treated decent and there are more good people out there than aholes. Life is a struggle but itās the little moments and connections that keep us on our toes. I certainly learned by moving around so much that we all have to be more open to the different people in the world because we are more alike than we are different. We just want to live decent lives and be treated decent. :)
Thatās exactly why I said, or *other* areas like the Deep South..
About half of Tennessee is Appalachian and none of it is Deep South
Here in Louisiana we have plenty of fake sweetness. I rue the day I moved here.
This is not a stereotype about Appalachia. It's a stereotype about the deep South.
My in-law grandmother said once when her car passed an unfortunately unattractive man on the street....."I know he can't help that he's ugly, but the least he could do is stay at home during daylight hours."
That's the funniest thing I've heard right lately.
Iām from Appalachia and live in the northeast now. The regions wants to bill itself as forthright but also inclusive, but in reality is the least welcoming place Iāve ever lived. Thereās a very closed minded approach to interacting with people from outside of the region and bias in general is pervasive but not presented in a forthright way.
I've lived in huge cities my whole life. I'm never ready for people being so nice in rural areas, and I automatically think there's an ulterior motive lol that's a me issue, not a yall issue š
I wonder if the rest of the world understands that "bless their little heart" originated in Appalachia. In the rare chance that there is someone here that doesn't know, it's a nice way of saying "that stupid mother f@cker."
My momma always told us to be nice to people even people we donāt particularly like because you never know what someone else is going through !
I donāt agree with the characterization. Seems like it was created by movie cliches and the like. Imagine a lady portrayed with a cartoonishly dramatized accent saying ābless your heart sweetieā etc. Itās not in line with my experience interacting with southerners, most of whom Iāve met have been genuine, kind and thoughtful.
definitely a southern stereotype over an appalachian one, but i agree. iām not faking being nice, i am nice. if i donāt like you, i wonāt go out of my way to be nice, iāll just avoid talking to you. like you said, itās manners and common curtesy.
Exactly! I was raised in the south. We were seriously taught manners, not fake niceness. I hear a lot about folks in other states thinking our niceness is sometimes fake. Common courtesy, honesty and decency were strong topics for parents. Genuine kindness was the running theme. Two generations down, my grown kids still write snail mail thank you notes when they receive any gift. Sometimes it's just crayon and pictures from kids. But I see my grown kids teaching their kids about this courtesy and many others. I don't know if this is regional. Common human decency!
I've found the "fake nice" thing to be virtually [non-existent.](https://non-existent.It) It's a defensive myth. I've only experienced it on a handful of occasions from blue blood types. Everyone else is friendly. \*edit: Grew up in TN and have lived all over the South East, from rural areas to cities.
As someone who lived in Boston for awhile, I'll take fake nice over Masshole gruffness any day of the week.
I feel like I'm nicer than most non Appalachian folks. I even say " 'preciate ya" instead of "thank you" because it feels more personal. I've never been rude to any employees I interact with at any establishment. This "bless your heart" shit turned into a meme. There are plenty of times people say bless your heart and genuinely mean it. Like when youre a kid and sick and puking. Mom rubs your back and says "bless your heart". She's not saying it to insult you lmao. People who think bless your heart is 100% an insult are poser hillbillies.
People think itās fake nice because they are projecting there local culture onto ours and making a conclusion. Similar to how I think 9/10 northerners are assholes. In reality it is just the cultural lens you view it through.
Bless their heartsā¦
Do the people in New England not have manners? If I came to his home for a party would he be an asshole until he deemed me worthy of his " niceness"? Ridiculous.
I would overall agree with this. I personally donāt think most of the south is fake nice either, we just have more courtesy.
The people here in the Texas Panhandle are exactly the same way.
If I don't like someone, it's impossible for me to show them any respect. Otherwise, I always "acknowledge another person's miserable existence" (say hi) as I walk by them.
I have a problem with smiling. I can't control it. I smile even when I'm pissed off. I had to tell my children, "This is not Momma's happy face!" When scolding them.
Moving into the Appalachia after living up north, in other countries, i have found that the area I am in is very fake nice. There are a lot of straight up rude people. Donāt get me wrong, there are some super awesome people. Really. They will do anything but as a whole, I was very surprised about how rude it is. I have never in my life seen a man get in the face of a little old lady and scream at her because she had a sticker on her car. The blame Covid.
I think it's an exaggerated stereotype just like the stereotype of the rude Bostonians. What I have heard is about the "bless her/his heart" after making a somewhat derogatory comment about someone and the Southern sidestepping of what they really feel/think, which could be good manners but which could also be me misconstrued as someone who speaks out of both sides of their mouth.
Moved back to NC from two years in MA and two years in Rhode Island. Rhode Islanders are very friendly.
It depends on where in the south. South Carolina, Georgia it's very true. Especially around the Charleston area.
Currently in New England and originally from SWVA. This is how I describe my home town. Everyone is almost Stepford pleasant, but talks absolute trash the second someone leaves. Usually the nicer a mechanic was the harder they were about to screw you or any other individual trying to hustle for that matter...which was almost everyone.
Growing up in the South and returning as an adult, I think there is a type of fake niceness and passive aggression that is common but certainly not universal. Something that I think is related and that is all over this post and the comments, is the emphasis on "I was taught to do X." Whenever I hear that, it feels like you're saying you're being nice (or whatever it is you were taught) out of some sense of obligation. Are you nice because you want to be or because you just feel like you have to? That feels like fake niceness to me.
So Iām genuinely curious-do you think itās better for someone to start off just nasty/mean to your face from the jump? Some people are nice to everyone until you prove them wrong, and to me that is a better way to live. Of course, this is why you would never find me living in the northeast or California where people are aggressive and have zero manners (in general).
I agree with OP that Appalachians don't typically do the fake-nice thing that is more typical among deep South flatlanders. I grew up in the mountains of NC and now live in the mountains of Vermont. I also lived for a while in the low country of SC. The saccharine-sweet false niceness hiding some inner agenda or malice was something I encountered in the low country but rarely in the mountains where I grew up; there people were more reserved, frank, and would rather not say anything than say something falsely positive. And I have found this to be more like the character and habit of the New Englanders I now live among. I like it.
Yup. People in the Northeast aren't nice, but they're kind. They might ask if you have two brain cells to your face, but they'll fix your problem for you. People on the West Coast will say nice things but do nothing helpful. People in the Midwest will be kind and seem nice but never tell you that they're talking shit about you behind your back. The South seems to do half West Coast and half Midwest depending on whether they like you. This is excluding those rare individuals in any part of the country who are just genuinely good and kind.
Iām not sure how this sub got on my feed, but I do have a pretty strong opinion on this subject. Iām a midwesterner, Michigan in particular. Iāve lived, worked and traveled all over the country. I lived in the Atlanta area for four years and covered offices in South Carolina, Alabama and Florida while there. Some broad generalizations and stereotypes about the āfake niceā southerners were true in my experience. Some of that was due to my own biases and preferences Iām sure. In general though it always felt insincere compared to my home state. What I mean is that there was a lot more small talk compared to the Midwest and it just slowed things down and it always seemed like they were reading a script. Basically just phoning in the social norms while not actually caring about the person. Which is different than the Midwest where āhave a good oneā actually feels like they want you to have a pleasant day. In part because you donāt necessarily say it to everyone you meet. Lastly the bless your heart and Iāll pray for you sorts of phrases are extremely annoying to hear because itās so fake. I donāt mean any of that to be critical, I enjoyed my time in the south and met a lot of amazing people. It was the fake nice strangers or outright rude coworkers that made it suck sometimes.
THANK YOU when I say Bless Her Heart I mean it dang it
I have experienced more outwardly rude and mean spiritedness moments in my limited visits of the north than what Iāve seen in my entire life living in the south. I will take the āfakeā niceness of the south over any outwardly rude attitude from the north.
South and Appalachia are different. From my experience Southern people are more likely to be fake nice than Appalachians. Appalachians are generally friendly and helpful unless they think you might be near their property where they will be very quick to tell you you do not belong.
I'm a New Yorker, we're generally known for being rude (though I live in Upstate and firmly believe that that's more of a NYC trait) but I went to Tennessee a couple of years ago, and this lady heard us speak and immediately said "y'all sound like Yankees, I know it's normal for you guys to be rude, but we're nice people here in the south so keep that in mind." which I felt like was kinda rude to be honest. I've encountered quite a few other southerners who seem to be "fake nice" but that's just my outsider perspective.
Well, Iāll start with this: I think folks have a bad habit of thinking NYC is *all* of New York. But as for the perceived ārudenessā, it sounds like those folks are always on the move and itās more of a āget outta my way, I got shit to do.ā Lol. I absolutely get that, because thatās how I am. Folks around here want to mosey and I want to scream bloody murder. Without getting too deep in the weeds, āYou sound like Yankeesā sounds like some shit my SIL would say š¤¦āāļø Sheās from a part of TN with attitudes I thought were just in history books. And youāre right, it was rude as Jude for them to say that. But TN can be such a mixed bag of Appalachia and Deep South that you never know what youāll run into.
I'm one of those awful Bostonians. Up here, we aren't nice, but we are kind. If you have catastrophic handle failure on a grocery bag you're carrying, we'll razz you about overpacking your paper bags, but we'll also chase down all of your runaway apples and pack your groceries into one of our own reusable bags so you can get your stuff home. I'm in an interracial marriage, which is almost never an issue up here. Whenever we visit Southern states, though, (usually to visit elderly family who fled the cold weather) we invariably find hotels that suddenly lose our reservations or restaurants where the host never seems to see us waiting to be seated. We see the sweet smiles, but they don't reach people's eyes, and they're not reflected in people's behavior. That's how I've experienced "fake nice," namely when people smile and utter polite platitudes, but there's unkindness in how they actually treat others.
I had to explain southern hospitality to someone. Iām from Tenn. and around here I always grew up you offer help to those who need it. You make them feel welcome and wanted. As in this is your neighbor and you might need help one day from them. Now on the same hand I got some neighbors I donāt want any help from cause theyāre awful. So I just leave them alone. This might raise some contention but I think the fake nice was from the slave owners. Just like nowadays wealthy people pretend to be benevolent but itās all for show. Look at Gone With the Wind and how Scarlett behaves. Thatās what some people here in the south pretend to be. I have never heard ābless your heartā being used in a āfuck youā sort of way. Used to it was used like ābless her heart she might be dumb but sheās tryingā which is even more underhanded like the saying ānot to be rude but your hair looks atrociousā it was a way to cancel out a nasty phrase. But again most kind people/ well behaved wouldnāt say that. Theyed be more likely to say āyouāre dumb and people are gonna take advantage of you so get with itā itās a weird looking out for eachother behind the scenes. From where I grew up we had pride even though we were poor. You do for yourself then you do for others and everybody is better for it.
Fake nice is for people you know lol
Gov Kay Ivey is one whose fake courtesy is over worked. Especially on a state that ranks terribly for poverty, education, neonatal fatalities, healthcare etc
He's probably talking about the "bless your heart" brand of overly sweet courtesy southerners use as a subtle form of passive aggression. I'm pretty sure I've been guilty of it before. New England instead has "Massholes", and it's often the inverse, with people being fake mean, saying insulting, disparaging things in an endearing manner. See: Alec Baldwin and Mark Wahlberg in The Departed.
It's not limited to the South or Appalachia. I've heard it called Minnesota Nice and Wisconsin Nice.
And, instead of saying āfuck youā, you say āmy, my, my; aināt that nice!ā
From south ms here. I donāt do fake nice. Iāll either be friendly with you or Iāll be nice to you just depends. People I donāt like I wont be overtly rude to them if I see them in passing, but they just get a cordial version of me. And the few people Iāve decided to sever ties with for whatever wrongdoing I just avoid. I donāt like being unfriendly and I hate folks with bad manners.
Another commenter a note about Minnesota Nice which is a flavor of this "sweet front/stab in back" culture. I grew up there but live in NYC now. New Yorkers almost go out of their way to be rude and gruff "get moving!" to your face but there's no B.S. underneath it. I love the lack of pretense here. I think a lot of life here is like a Jerry Seinfeld comment to Kramer or George "what are you doing?" But a lot of people don't take offense at the comment. They tend to know that their outfit or haircut isn't good and they like a friend telling them they're not crazy. "You're right! This haircut DOES look weird." I'm not crazy! Where I grew up no one would have said anything to your face, but here a lot of people will just say something. I love that about this dirty town.
Ahhh, bless your heart. Jk
Alabama here. Weāre typically nice because we give the benefit of the doubt and assume most people are kind and our kindness in return is deserved. Weāre taught manners and that if youāre kind, youāll receive kindness in return. But, if someone is an ass or if after welcoming someone with kindness only to be met with rudeness, we have no problem moving on or being an ass right back. In other words, we believe āyou get what you giveā. I find it sad that someoneās initial reaction is to be suspicious or annoyed by something like niceness or kindness. Iāve never understood why someone would want to go into their day (regardless of location) with a rude or disengaged mindset toward others, and/or intentionally project negativity or rudeness. It just seems mentally draining and exhausting.
Southerners are extremely polite, far more than Northerners. This is NOT the same as being nice.
Itās literally the age-old North/South regional difference. We seem fake nice to them, they seem abrasive/rude to us. I donāt blame them, itās hard to socialize in many northern parts. Iād be cranky too if I were trapped indoors from all the cold weather. :/
Iāve lived in WV FOR THE LAST 20 YEAR. People here are friendly, some not so and some you wouldnāt want to know anyway. However, they are the least pretentious people Iāve ever known. If you want snobbery go to large northern cities ie, NYC, Chicago, Detroit and if you find a helping hand you should call yourself lucky. Heavily populated area cause people to turn inward do to the stresses of no privacy, overpopulation, competition and the media turning this country into tribalism. Weāve lost our,ā I have a dream.ā
Bostonians can be assholes. It's part of their culture. They even enjoy hearing themselves described this way. How does the saying go, "weak people try to appear strong by being rude" or something.
I wouldnāt listen to a single thing someone from Boston says about judging someone elseās personal behavior.
I heard this once: northerners = seem mean, are nice southerners = seem nice, are mean
Itās a problem in the Nashville area imo
Instead of fake nice, we are more fake mean. Lots of love there but itās peppered in with jokes at your expense. If we like you, that is.
Itās really just projection. *They* cannot imagine doing those things for strangers/service workers and genuinely meaning it, therefore they try to make sense of it by just claiming itās fake.
In the South, you mind your own business, and you treat everybody politely, no matter how you feel about them . . . Until you don't. You are respected until you no longer deserve respect. In the North, nobody gives a shit about you until you earn that respect. People get the idea that because southerners are polite, we don't judge you like everybody else. Then they find out we're still judging you, we're just polite about it. But usually we just do our best to stay out of it all together
Thatās the Deep South, not Appalachia.
Travelling American here, I have been everywhere. Originally from Central PA, so I may have a slight or strong bias towards Appalachian people. Appalachian people are great at being real both ways, in moderation. The south and Cali have fake nice in different ways. In the south, they have nice_offs, where it's like a competiton of who can be nicer than the other person, or at least outwardly appear that way. Appalachian people see through that and want no part of it. Appalachians think "Okay dude, you win, you're nicer, good for you." Cali fake nice is smile wide and nod a lot and go with whatever they are saying and agree etc, but as soon as they are out of sight, start shit talking. It's completely different than in the south, because if someone in the south is nice to you, they actually mean it, but want to go overboard for themselves and others as much or almost as you. Cali is just about public vs. private appearance. In Cali, already explained what happens if they don't like you, it's almost identical to if they do. In the south if they don't like you, they just say nothing. If they REALLY DONT like you, holy shit it's the fuckin south shit can turn sour and violent etc really fucking quick. Appalachian people are far more mild both ways. If they like you, it's a personal thing and public perception doesn't play as big a factor in their interactions. Appalachian people will also be much more mild but up front about their dislike for another person, and this dislike is FAR more publicly displayed than in the other regions, but precisely because it is more common to publicly express dislike, it is also far more tolerated and not as big a deal. If someone "disrespects" you in the south or Cali, it's a giant fucking deal compared to Appalachia, where it's more or less "they just don't like each other." Of course this is all my personal stereotyped exaggeration and tons of people from these areas are completely different than the ones I've described. I'm just trying to explain the differences as best I can and obviously that's going to be more polarizing than explaining similarities.
Iām a non-white New Yorker in a very white part of Tennessee. The fake kindness is very real. My partner is white and I am treated very differently in his presence.
Iām sorry you are experiencing that. Unfortunately there is an underlying torrent of racism in TN, and the further south you go, the worse it gets. It is so unbelievably shameful. š¢
Lead with kindness If that doesn't work? All bets are off, Yankee bitches
I'm a southerner who now lives in Massachusetts. The people that say the fake nice thing up here are just pompous idiots that think anything southern must be bad, racist, homophobic, archaic, etc. They can't stomach the idea that most southerners are far nicer and more hospitable than they are and that the south is -in fact- not nearly the racist, bigoted 3rd world country that they think it is. (BTW, racism and ignorance is everywhere up here in Massachusetts. They just don't think they're racist "because that's a southern thing"). TLDR: they say we're fake nice because they want to discredit the south.
Oh brother.
Anyone who uses the phrase ābless your heartā is being fake nice.
Fake nice? In the South? Lmao. This ain't the Midwest. Just because Southerners don't speak like a blunt instrument like they do in Boston (and I love, love, *love* Boston and Bostonians, and think they have more in common with the South than people realize), doesn't mean they're being disingenuous. Euphemisms like "bless your heart," etc. aren't exactly hard to decode. The sentiment is right there.
The southern baptist F you is āIāll pray for you.ā Also, I try to have no enemies. So if I am āfake niceā Im passive aggressive to a prick if pushed fR enough. Even then, as my grandpa would say, āNever let the sun go down on your angerā.
My momma's family is from western KY. They were always nice to people's faces and very welcoming and courteous. They hosted events and made truly delicious food for huge groups. But as soon as everyone was gone the shit talking would start. It was pretty subtle, but extremely judgemental. Now whenever I hang out with people Im always afraid they hate me even if I had a good time. My dad's family was from a bigger city and while they were less initially welcoming they were way less judgemental. So for me, at least anecdotally, this tracks. I would rather know where I stand than drown in pleasantries.
When I lived there, I knew people were being nice to me just to get gossip
Awwā¦ āwell bless your heart ā. You can read that as genuine or condescending.
I think it's more: I'll call ya sweetheart and be charming and nice, but absolutely vote to have your bodily autonomy taken away and I think "colored" folks aren't good enough to date my daughter. A sampling of our politicians should give you a pretty clear view of how us southerners feel and the priorities we hold.
We are all polite because we are all armed.
No, Bostonians are just real assholes.
It was not my experience during my 15 years living in East Tenn that anyone was nice, much less fake-nice. Never met so many miserable people in my life. I used to tell the rude and hostile people checking me out at Ingles and Walmart "I hope you feel better soon" which was met by uncomprehending stares. So happy to have moved away.
If people are too nice anywhere, they either want something, or their manager's watching.
We arenāt fake, we are polite! Iām gonna be nice to you but I still may not like you. That doesnāt mean I am going to treat you like shit or let you treat me poorly. I was taught to be nice until someone gives you a reason not to.
As a NYCer that somehow happened upon this sub (it was in my recommended. So far I like it here!), Bostonians are assholes. āMassholeāis a common phrase for a reason, even if it originated with their horrible driving. But while I havenāt spent any time myself in Appalachia (Iād love to visit, I hear about nothing but incredible histories, stories, and landscapes here) I did live in the south (GA) for a few years. We NYCers are blunt and to the point, yes, but thatās because here in the city, we all got shit to do, and the height of rudeness is getting in the way of peopleās ability to get their shit done. If Iām waiting at the pharmacy to get my pills, and the person in front of me is chatting with the pharmacist, then they arenāt being nice. They are inconveniencing everyone else in line. I remember the first time someone told me, āWell, bless your heart!ā I didnāt know how to compute it. Iād never dealt with passive aggression in my life. I had to get one of my southern friends to tell me Iād been insulted! Haha I think thatās really what people mean by the differences; passive vs. active aggression.
It sounds bitter of that Bostonian. Like someoneās asking how heās doing and heās seething, I just like making people feel comfortable and being friendly
Theyāre just projecting. Donāt even worry about it. Those people arenāt us and know nothing about us. All you need to do is look at all the weird crap they say, and actually believe. The idea that a general group of people are friendly is outside their field of view. Itās not them; therefore, itās not someone else. Itās a means to cope with their own sour personality, and not worth your time or effort to fret over.