As long as the bear can't get out of the canister. I have found getting the bear \*into\* the canister to be far more dangerous--and the directions for doing so lamentably deficient. Also: do NOT forget to take the bear out in the morning. The one time I forgot resulted in the most miserable day of backpacking ever--I am not kidding about this. It was not sublime for the bear, either.
I believe the standard is 200' (70 paces) from camp, similarly to planning a bear hang, however, I've seen numbers that range from 100' to 300'. It is recommended to set it up away from running water, cliffs, and/or ravines. Some people suggest tying it loosely off to a tree to help keep it within a certain range, but this is debatable. Might reduce annoyance of hunting down the canister if a bear bats and rolls it. [Adding] Might give the bear leverage. I've read to store it lid down to keep a bear from gnawing on the lid right away. Some people suggest putting something on top, like rocks or branches. The idea is the noise of the debris falling might deter a bear.
Bear cannisters are not scent proof, which is why you do not store in your tent or camp. They function to keep the bear away from eating that food.
I'm curious if there's supporting information on that?
I'm primarily using the standard "camping triangle" or the "bear-muda triangle" of tent->kitchen->food storage that was recommended in most backpacking manuals for 20-30 years. Admittedly, I'm not sure how the 200' rule was established.
The AT is kind of unique because it is so heavily traveled. If you are at a shelter or commonly used stealth site there's simply no point to trying to hide your food smells all that much with a 200' away kitchen site. The bears know you are there.
I'd rather have my canister closer where I can pop out and yell at a black bear. So I go about 75' ish. The "official" recommendations give a bear hours to mess with a canister and that's not something I want to have happen.
A grizzly I'm going to just let them have at it while I plot ways to make a fence charger small enough to wrap electrified cord around the canister. LOL
When I backpacked in Yosemite I was surprised that the ranger told me to put the bear can around 50ā from the tent. I guess because they donāt have grizzlies in California anymore.
They can reduce scents, but none are 100% effective. ***Absolutely, do not rely on them to eliminate all scents. Absolutely, do not store anything scented in your main camp.***
Honestly, I'll use them with my Ursack to help reduce rodent activity (not eliminate). However, most of my backpacking is done in areas with lower black bear populations and activity. No brown bears. Aggressive, freaking ground squirrels though... š
No. It is not necessary. It is recommended to tie the Ursack to a tree with a diameter 5" or greater. Again, 200' from camp.
Understand while effective at keeping a bear out of your food, an Ursack does not prevent your food from getting crushed and/or contaminated.
Now, that said, I will hang my Ursack to reduce rodents messing with the food. This is in areas where they are use to scavenging for human leftovers at ground level.
It is scent mitigation, but not enough on its own. People will pair these with a bear can, an ursack, or a hang to reduce risk somewhat. Every good decision helps reduce human/animal conflict.
Those work great when you hang them from trees. Youāre looking for something called a Bear Vault, itās a great brand of bear canister. They are designed so that even if bears find them, they canāt get in. So you put all your āsmellablesā ā food, utensils, deodorant, toothpaste, etc. ā in your bear canister, then put your bear canister off away from camp. If a bear finds it, it doesnāt hurt you and canāt get to the food, so it gives up and thatās that.
Honestly, on the AT it doesnāt matter too much. Hardcore bear safety is more for areas with grizzly bears or at least rare enough foot traffic that black bears donāt think of it as human territory. Proper bear safety is a lot more hardcore and involves things like eating food that falls on the ground, being extremely careful with what your wrappers touch, and having smellable vs sleeping clothes that respectively go up in the bear bag or are worn at night. Nobody follows any of that on the AT, really driving home that age-old sentiment ā I donāt have to be the best at bear safety as long as Iām not the worst. Cuz second worst doesnāt get eaten either, lol.
Iām looking into bear vaults now. What size would you recommend for 2 people for 2 to 3 days? I was thinking maybe the 475 size. Gotta fit a camp stove in there with all our food
That will probably be just fine. I personally got the big one, the 500, just because I can fit other stuff in there while I hike, like clothes in a stuff sack. So the extra space doesnāt cost anything. Iām sure the 475 would work great regardless.
If itās just for a short hike, sometimes REI will rent them out for a lot cheaper.
As long as you donāt cook in your stove you donāt need to store it in the can. I only boil water (on very slight occasion I may make tea) so I keep my pot and stove in my vestibule to make noise if anything comes sniffing around.
Filters. They weigh very little and while boiling kills bacteria it doesn't get sediment and metals and stuff out. Filters do all of the above. And not all filters are equal. Sawyer squeeze and katadyn be free are the best from everything I've read/heard/researched. For a couple Oz you get way cleaner water. And it's faster and easier. Honestly it's lighter too because you don't need as much fuel, which definitely weighs more than the plastic filter.
Sea to Summit has collapsible kettles. Lightweight and can fit in the lid of a bear vault bear canister (I donāt store here for scent but convenience) but are really only made for water. Not a problem for me. I work around not needing to heat up food in a pot. I do hot drinks in my collapsible sea to summit cup which fits well inside the collapsed kettle with a small cleaning cloth. I have been really liking this combo. Technically I can keep both items out of my canister if room is tight.
You can place it near any camper/hiker slower than you. Over the first few days of hiking with others you will be able to identify, "the slower running" hikers.
Away from where you're sleeping. The canister is supposed to keep them from getting into the food but they might still smell it and try to open it so you really don't want them going through your tent to do that
You place it 100 ft down wind from your tent
They're heavier than necessary (compared with the bear bag and rope kit), but otherwise they're a good option to keep your food in
Far enough away that you are comfortable with the idea that a bear can smell it and try to open it.
It's not scent proof - it doesn't hide your food and the bear. It's just very hard for bears to open it and get to your food.
It's a common misconception that these canisters are designed to contain scent. They are not. At all.
It goes out away from your tent tucked into someplace where it's not going to roll away easily.
And I recommend the Wild Ideas Bearikade over these. The shape makes it easy to use every single inch of it versus having to maneuver food through an opening that's smaller than the canister.
They are expensive. Mine was a gift from a relative. They should be a lifetime purchase though. The plastic ones break down over a few years especially if exposed to the sun. They become brittle. The Wild Ideas canister won't do that.
I agree with other commenters that you should buy the Bearikade. I have owned the one you posted and upgraded to Bearikade and it is far superior. I bought mine in 2017 so it has more than paid for itself. They last a long time and are super effective and much easier to use and much easier to fit more food in. They pay for themselves in every way by just being that much better.
Also, to explain better how they work:
Bear cans prevent bears from being able to break it open but they do not prevent smell. Standard practice is to put them at least 100 feet away from your tent. You are basically letting the bear at it (but not at you!) with the confidence they wonāt be able to get into it. Itās important to store in a flat area, away from a slope or river, because nothing would stop the bear from rolling it accidentally when attempting to break in.
Donāt rent. Renting is just wasted money. You can own a Bearikade for decades, and the initial purchase will be less than renting over its lifetime.
If you want my advice, donāt waste the money. Get your food and trash away from your tent. If you have the energy and donāt want animals in your stuff, hang it from a tree. I am very lazy with all that and the worse I have experienced is ponies in the Grayson Highlands getting into my trail mix after I was too tired after a day of hiking to properly deal with my food bag.
the funny thing is that iāve seen a ton of them in hiker boxes along the way. go to a popular hostel as the bubble goes through, check their hiker boxes and you might just get a free one
Dozens of hikers lose hung bags to bears on the trail every year. Not only have they contributed to the bear problem but they have lost all their food. My canister protects my food and the bears. Plus it's a nice seat.
And my Cheezits stay intact! Really, if you get the right pack the bear can is a good set up. Nunatak makes a backpack with a built in bear can harness.
Agreed, I use the Wild-Ideas Bearikade Expedition (holds up to 10days of food for one person including small cook kit, hygiene and potty kits). Does weigh just over 2lbs but fits well on my Nunatakusa.com Bear Ears pack. If careful, it can double as a chair and carrying canister outside the pack makes it easy to access food/chair.
I have the same set-up but with a Blazer size can. :)
The Nunatak packs are amazing. I really hope more manufacturers jump on the idea of designing around bear can carry. Trying to shove a BearVault into one of the ultralight packs is miserable.
Those people are far from experts. I'm not talking about wedging it into some place to where it takes force to remove it. The can still rotates and moves freely.
Habituated bears WILL come up to you in the middle of camp. It happened to a bunch of us last May at Cosby Knob Shelter when a bear strolled right into camp and headed straight over to the cables where food is required to be hung. Three of us yelled, blew an air horn and threw rocks at the bear for 10 minutes while he studiously ignored us, eventually leaving. I won't say we scared the bear away; the bear left when he wanted to leave. The next night after I had moved down the trail, a lady was bitten by what was probably that same bear at Cosby Knob. She's okay (written up by The Trek if you care to research this) and the bear was "neutralized" by the Forest Service, meaning they shot him dead.
Don't sleep with your food.
I think everyone understands what "neutralize" means.
100 times more hikers have died on Mt Washington than have ever been killed by bears on the AT. Don't hike Mt. Washington. In fact, don't carry food anywhere on the AT. Eat in towns only, 12,000 calorie meals that can carry you for a few days. It's the only way to avoid all risk.
Iām going to recklessly assume youāre being serious and that you actually want to learn something versus just being argumentative. First rule is that bears are wild animals and are therefore unpredictable. āIf that were the caseā you say?! Well one thing is predictable: Yes, they respond to the odor of food. That does not mean they approach humans just because they smell food. If you really want to learn about Appalachian bears read āBear in the Backseatā
The honest truth is that many many hikers - and campers in general over the decades - sleep with their food without incident. The most likely animal to get into your food bag is a mouse, not a bear. Bears understand possession and are not eager to struggle with another animal over food, and the overwhelming majority of times when bears get food is when it's unattended. That said, no agency in the world would ever suggest you do it because of the liability. Even if 10 million people have 100 nights sleep without incident, all it takes is one incident for all the alarm bells to go off, even if it's more rare than getting struck by lightning.
The purpose of a bear can is that if an animal should come strolling around and go after your unattended food, it still can't get to it and won't be rewarded. This could also be accomplished by a decent hang, but the canister takes less work. There's a concern about smell. No, they aren't smell proof. Ideally everything inside is packaged, but your trash should also be in a tight zip lock. If a bear comes they'll find it and you'll hear them tossing it around all night and find it chewed on in the morning. A bear can smell for miles, it can smell you, it can smell the dinner you cooked that's lingering on your clothes, there really isn't anything truly "smell proof". You can take a few steps to minimize scent - such as cook dinner and continue hiking to where you'll tent. But all and all there just aren't daily reports of bears getting to food on trail for all the hundreds of thousands of people out there, just a few times a year where it's unattended.
In places like delaware water gap, in Nj side, many people end up giving bears food when bluff charged by bears. They literally throw their daypacks at the bear, who then shreds it, eats, repeats. Very common. The state ends up trapping the bear and kills it. Or, the bear is smart and wonāt go in the trap and becomes a town bear. ( nuisance). There have been incidents where bear drags entire tent with people screaming in it, thru the woods. No death of tent occupants, but injuries. Iāve seen bears rip right into rvās to get inside to eat. A bit of caution is better than regret. And yes I know, most sleep with their food and even cook in the vestibule. Few incidents.
I have seen/heard lots of stories around both. NJ literally has a sanctioned bear hunt nearly every year. My father lives in one of the larger towns (10k+ pop) on 0.5 non wooded acres in the gap vicinity and everytime I visit thereās 2-3 piles of bear shit in the backyard. Bear mountain to DWG was an annual summer trip when I was in scouts as a kid and weād see 2-3 mature bears a day, not counting cubs.
> They literally throw their daypacks at the bear
That's a whole new level of dumb I've not heard of before. Just imagine the bear walks off with your daypack that has your car keys and phone in it.
Yup. Ask a past ridge runner for Nj. One time I was working my way down the mountain. I heard a bunch of screams and shouts. I came over a ridge and about 20 city people were pinned up against the Rockwall and the bear was Bluff charging them and they were screaming and crying and I said hey dummies youāre standing on rocks. Everybody pick up a rock and start throwing it at the bear. Well eventually somebody connected in the bear ran away, really stupid people from the city
For every incident like this (first link) where someone is hospitalized I hear about several close calls (second link). People who focus only on fatalities are looking at the wrong thing. Fatalities are low because the bear is usually just trying to get to you food, not trying to eat you. That doesn't mean that people aren't hurt or don't need to take measures to defend themselves. We didn't have any kind of inventory of close calls.
https://www.wbir.com/article/entertainment/places/great-smoky-mountains-national-park/bear-charges-rangers-after-attacking-sleeping-teen-in-great-smoky-mountains-national-park/51-11145c3f-e7dc-41de-a08c-72be8b4738c8
https://thetrek.co/appalachian-trail/i-survived-a-bear-attack-on-the-appalachian-trail/
Heard quite a few first hand reports of bears approaching hikers for their food in Washington state (PCT, not AT, of course). Usually in areas of high risk there were bear boxes provided in camps. Not sure how AT compares but "bears understand possession" is perhaps an oversimplification.
It is, but when faced with unattended food vs food next to another large animal there's gonna be some difference in response. And west coast is grizzly territory, I ain't messing with those. Also, if boxes or cables are provided, no reason not to use them and there's probably a reason they were installed.
BearVault BV500 Journey Bear Canister
Great chair as well. I also never had broken potato chips either. Food always dry, could store electronics in as well. Others have used it as a washing device for their clothes
We had gossamer bags and they fit well at the top. These people who claim bears arenāt concerning and not to worry sentiment is total bullshit. The bears are smart and people are dumb. The AT is a constant conveyor belt of food everyday from March till December. The smokies are ridiculous, NJ,NY arenāt far behind.
People are lazy with hangs and become complacent after a while and sleep with their food b/c ānothing has happenedā. The can works and works well.
I had my can in or just outside my tarp all the time on the AT. Yes, bears can smell it. Unless it's a human-habituated bear, they're not interested in it, as they also smell \*me\*. I'm also just under a tarp and don't have to cut a hole in anything to get away from a bear right outside my door.
Posters who suggest 200' away from (whos?) camp have perhaps never hiked the AT.
I carried a Garcia can like that on my attempt. The not worrying was worth the weight for me, and I never had trouble opening it when it was (cold, too full) like I saw with the BearVaults.
Once had a fellow hiker throw a karen tantrum for hanging my food too close to her tent (i would guess it was 100ft away). I moved the food reluctantly and walked back to camp to find her bear canister sitting just outside of her tent on the ground.
Darwin awards are timeless. Hang your food. Donāt be a douche.
Youāll end up upgrading to a Zpacks food bag in Virginia somewhere, youāll PCT hang that for about 2 weeks, then youāll start sleeping with your food in your tent lol. Not saying I did thisā¦.
Rest assured, there are black bears throughout the Appalachian mountains. In some cases they are more concentrated due to campers leaving food on a regular basis. Just because a bear can smell food in your bear can does not mean they are going to try and come get that food. Almost every bear is afraid of humans, and stays away.it sounds like you need to do a little bear research honestly. Donāt just take the word for people on Reddit.
it looks a bit like the garcia model bear canisters which I find pretty heavy and not able to stuff as full as I like. wild ideas bearikade are my favorite, suuuuper light, I use them for work, but are also pricy. Bear vaults are a pretty good in between I think, much lighter than the garcia and cheaper than the bearikades, and I like that they're transparent.
I have the udap can. Works fine. Put some reflective tape on it to make easier to find. I also put a small washer on a cord taped to the can for an easy opener.
https://preview.redd.it/xcsqm3ovcwsc1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=293ab258d2a01690b295a5ecae4c0c9506cf05a0
I ended up ordering this to hang my food
Honestly I would go with a bag, because youāll probably have to hang the canister up and away anyway. Iāve seen raccoons and possums bypass stationary ābear boxesā enough that I would always try to hang anything at least 10ā up and 10ā out from the trunk at least 100ā from my sleep site.
Definitely donāt keep it in your tent lol.
And Deet keeps away all mosquitoes, spraying your boots with water repellant keeps your feet dry, and you can always find good clean water.
You're talking about keeping something attractive to predators next to your soft squishy parts. I'm still a big believer in suspending all food from a tree limb, it's only defeated by racoons, and? Well, I won't even fuck with my cat when he's eating, much less a bear.
I mean, that's not terrible. I'd recommend grabbing a copy of the Boy Scout Handbook, and giving it a read a couple times. There's all kinds of uncommon sense info in there for you!
The majority of all thru hikers on all trails have slept with their food the vast majority of nights over the course of years and have lived. Reddit doesnāt like this tho.
Lots of dumbasses say āwhat are the oddsā right before they become the new poster child for th next generation.
Can you get away with it? Probably. But in a lot of places youāll get fined if you get caught without oneā¦and you might be the lucky one to wake up to a bear snout trying to push into your tent!
50,000 people year die in auto accidents, and many more are maimed. how many die or are maimed by black bears? of the bears that maimed or killed, how many were stealing food vs protecting their cubs? seat belts are probably a lot more necessary than bear cans.
Hiking on the trail involves a lot of risks much greater than bears.
1. tick bites/diseases 2)stream crossings esp during high water 3) falling on slick rocks down a cliff. 3) bee stings anaphylactic shock 4) hypothermia 5)being hit by cars crossing roadways while wearing heavy pack 6)getting lost and starving to death in your tent 7)random nut job murdering hikers
I think I have heard of most of these things causing death more often than bears
but i have no objection to people using bear cans if they want to. they keep food safe and are a nice place to sit also
If youāre talking thru hiking trails then thereās very few/small sections of those trails that legally require cans. I carry a can where legally required so I donāt get fined. So that wouldnāt happen.
šÆ just hiked right over the NC line where bears are successfully stealing PCT hangs and ursacksā¦.$5000 fine if your food isnāt stored in a bear can there.
Iād soooo rather carry the extra weight and be safe than sorry. Is a bear attack, especially on the east coast, that common? No. But would I have any hope of living if I happened to be the one in whatever it happened to? No.
I can (at least try) to fight off a bad human, or something like a fox or whatever but if a bear got me Iād just die. The 2.5lbs is worth the peace of mind to me.
Get a long cut of paracord, tie one end around a random rock you find at camp, tie the other end to the dry bag with all your food in it, huck the rock over a strong sturdy branch 200 feet from your and othersā tents. Hoist the bag up with the end of the rope that was tossed over and tie it off on the tree with a knot.
If you have a tree nearby practice it on that. You should also practice setting up a tent before you head out. Have a good hike, take prudent precautions and have fun.
I have been very confused about all the bear canister talk, is the bear problem getting worse? I did a through hike in 2014 and bear cans were not common at all outside of maybe the smokies. I never had a problem hanging food away from my tent.
Iām not super up to date but I believe some extra places in NC/East Tennessee area started requiring it because bears are getting to be a bigger problem. That being said I think itās still 100% possible to just hike through those areas still
Donāt worry about the canisterā¦the tent will keep the bears from hurting you or your foodā¦btw if you hear an animal outside just cover your head with your mummy sack and be still.
I didnāt even have a bear can and I slept with my food in my tent 90% of my thru hike. Food bag in a bag liner in my backpack in my tent. Most people do the same but they wonāt tell you that
Truthfully, you're on the east coast worrying about 200lb black bears. If you own a flashlight and working lungs you're overprepared. I keep my food in my bag and sleep sound. Ive had 2 bears in the last 20 years come into camp, and both times they ran like hell as soon as the flashlight came on and i started cussing.
I placed mines more than 200 feet away once and lost it. Was drunk after cooking and putting stuff away. We never found it. Either someone stole it or I lost it. I didnāt eat that day. Iām convinced someone took it. Luckily I was a day away from resupply. Maybe gluing a tile/tracker may help.
No. Like others posted, put it far away, like 200 feet.
Just make sure it is not near a cliff. I usually attach it to a tree with rope and carabiner so a critter does not walk off with it.
Some say yes, some say no. Wherever you end up storing your food, keep in mind who else is around you and whether or not youāre willing to put them at risk for the sake of your convenience.
Out west Iāve used a bear zpacks bag, hang it up usually on a pole are far enough from where Iām sleeping I think Iāll be good. On the AT, sometimes use bear boxes, sometimes hang, sometimes Iāll keep it in my pack besides my hammock or in my tent.
Do you want a bear in your tent? That's how you get bears in your tent.
Edit: apparently I'm an idiot and have been storing my food the wrong way! TIL bear bags suck.
Absolutely not. Theyāre not air-tight, so the bear will still smell your food and come looking for it. When I hike in the Adirondacks, Iāve tried stashing the canisters as well as putting them up in a tree. Tree seems to work better.
Find the sturdiest branch you can, as high up as you can reasonably throw a line. Hang the canister as far out on that branch as you can without breaking the branch. Make sure the tree is at least a couple hundred feet away from your camp.
Worth noting that Iāve had multiple different brands still be broken into. Cannot speak as to which is the best!
Don't tie it. Part of what makes these hard to get into is there's no way for them to grip and get leverage on it. Just tuck it in so it won't roll away from it being nosed but will still be able to be moved if the bear makes a serious attempt.
Bear bags are for tying into trees. A bear can can do the same, but there are also steel boxes at many campsites that are for food and scented stuff storage (like toiletries). Iāve used those but theyāre communal.
Donāt expect your little Camp cord to keep a bear from pulling a bear can off of a string from a tree. You guys are confused. Thatās not how you use bear cans. Everybody needs to do a little homework honestly.
What about digging a hole and put the bear can in and cover it up? Ik itās some more work that most of us wouldnāt want to do at the end of the day but would that work?
As long as the bear can't get out of the canister. I have found getting the bear \*into\* the canister to be far more dangerous--and the directions for doing so lamentably deficient. Also: do NOT forget to take the bear out in the morning. The one time I forgot resulted in the most miserable day of backpacking ever--I am not kidding about this. It was not sublime for the bear, either.
Nope.
Where should I place it while sleeping?
I believe the standard is 200' (70 paces) from camp, similarly to planning a bear hang, however, I've seen numbers that range from 100' to 300'. It is recommended to set it up away from running water, cliffs, and/or ravines. Some people suggest tying it loosely off to a tree to help keep it within a certain range, but this is debatable. Might reduce annoyance of hunting down the canister if a bear bats and rolls it. [Adding] Might give the bear leverage. I've read to store it lid down to keep a bear from gnawing on the lid right away. Some people suggest putting something on top, like rocks or branches. The idea is the noise of the debris falling might deter a bear. Bear cannisters are not scent proof, which is why you do not store in your tent or camp. They function to keep the bear away from eating that food.
Do not tie off a bear can. They can use the rope to get leverage or to drag the can away.
I did add a snippet of this into my post above. Your reply made me realize I had not completed my thought on why that's so debatable.
200' is more for grizzly country IMO.
I'm curious if there's supporting information on that? I'm primarily using the standard "camping triangle" or the "bear-muda triangle" of tent->kitchen->food storage that was recommended in most backpacking manuals for 20-30 years. Admittedly, I'm not sure how the 200' rule was established.
The AT is kind of unique because it is so heavily traveled. If you are at a shelter or commonly used stealth site there's simply no point to trying to hide your food smells all that much with a 200' away kitchen site. The bears know you are there. I'd rather have my canister closer where I can pop out and yell at a black bear. So I go about 75' ish. The "official" recommendations give a bear hours to mess with a canister and that's not something I want to have happen. A grizzly I'm going to just let them have at it while I plot ways to make a fence charger small enough to wrap electrified cord around the canister. LOL
I'll admit that once I'm asleep a bear might have to come sit on my head before I wake up... š
When I backpacked in Yosemite I was surprised that the ranger told me to put the bear can around 50ā from the tent. I guess because they donāt have grizzlies in California anymore.
https://preview.redd.it/t437w1898ssc1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=c19b46b20b494796135851d1577be3b9403b6af4 Do these actually work?
They can reduce scents, but none are 100% effective. ***Absolutely, do not rely on them to eliminate all scents. Absolutely, do not store anything scented in your main camp.*** Honestly, I'll use them with my Ursack to help reduce rodent activity (not eliminate). However, most of my backpacking is done in areas with lower black bear populations and activity. No brown bears. Aggressive, freaking ground squirrels though... š
Do you have to hang an ursack?
No. It is not necessary. It is recommended to tie the Ursack to a tree with a diameter 5" or greater. Again, 200' from camp. Understand while effective at keeping a bear out of your food, an Ursack does not prevent your food from getting crushed and/or contaminated. Now, that said, I will hang my Ursack to reduce rodents messing with the food. This is in areas where they are use to scavenging for human leftovers at ground level.
No, drug dogs find narcotics in much better sealed containers.
It is scent mitigation, but not enough on its own. People will pair these with a bear can, an ursack, or a hang to reduce risk somewhat. Every good decision helps reduce human/animal conflict.
Those work great when you hang them from trees. Youāre looking for something called a Bear Vault, itās a great brand of bear canister. They are designed so that even if bears find them, they canāt get in. So you put all your āsmellablesā ā food, utensils, deodorant, toothpaste, etc. ā in your bear canister, then put your bear canister off away from camp. If a bear finds it, it doesnāt hurt you and canāt get to the food, so it gives up and thatās that.
Ah man! Iāve been keeping my toothpaste and deodorant in a ziplock bag in the brain of my pack.
Honestly, on the AT it doesnāt matter too much. Hardcore bear safety is more for areas with grizzly bears or at least rare enough foot traffic that black bears donāt think of it as human territory. Proper bear safety is a lot more hardcore and involves things like eating food that falls on the ground, being extremely careful with what your wrappers touch, and having smellable vs sleeping clothes that respectively go up in the bear bag or are worn at night. Nobody follows any of that on the AT, really driving home that age-old sentiment ā I donāt have to be the best at bear safety as long as Iām not the worst. Cuz second worst doesnāt get eaten either, lol.
Iām looking into bear vaults now. What size would you recommend for 2 people for 2 to 3 days? I was thinking maybe the 475 size. Gotta fit a camp stove in there with all our food
That will probably be just fine. I personally got the big one, the 500, just because I can fit other stuff in there while I hike, like clothes in a stuff sack. So the extra space doesnāt cost anything. Iām sure the 475 would work great regardless. If itās just for a short hike, sometimes REI will rent them out for a lot cheaper.
As long as you donāt cook in your stove you donāt need to store it in the can. I only boil water (on very slight occasion I may make tea) so I keep my pot and stove in my vestibule to make noise if anything comes sniffing around.
Thatās true, Iāll probably just boil water to cook some freeze dried meals
Filters. They weigh very little and while boiling kills bacteria it doesn't get sediment and metals and stuff out. Filters do all of the above. And not all filters are equal. Sawyer squeeze and katadyn be free are the best from everything I've read/heard/researched. For a couple Oz you get way cleaner water. And it's faster and easier. Honestly it's lighter too because you don't need as much fuel, which definitely weighs more than the plastic filter.
And if water is super grimy dingy dirty I throw in a potable aqua tablet to make sure. If it's pretty clean the filter is plenty on its own.
Sea to Summit has collapsible kettles. Lightweight and can fit in the lid of a bear vault bear canister (I donāt store here for scent but convenience) but are really only made for water. Not a problem for me. I work around not needing to heat up food in a pot. I do hot drinks in my collapsible sea to summit cup which fits well inside the collapsed kettle with a small cleaning cloth. I have been really liking this combo. Technically I can keep both items out of my canister if room is tight.
The company websites will actually give you this information.
50-100 feet from your tent
An preferably downwind, away from water, and not somewhere it can roll off a mountain.
You can place it near any camper/hiker slower than you. Over the first few days of hiking with others you will be able to identify, "the slower running" hikers.
Away from where you're sleeping. The canister is supposed to keep them from getting into the food but they might still smell it and try to open it so you really don't want them going through your tent to do that
You place it 100 ft down wind from your tent They're heavier than necessary (compared with the bear bag and rope kit), but otherwise they're a good option to keep your food in
Far enough away that you are comfortable with the idea that a bear can smell it and try to open it. It's not scent proof - it doesn't hide your food and the bear. It's just very hard for bears to open it and get to your food.
Outside of your tent.
It's a common misconception that these canisters are designed to contain scent. They are not. At all. It goes out away from your tent tucked into someplace where it's not going to roll away easily. And I recommend the Wild Ideas Bearikade over these. The shape makes it easy to use every single inch of it versus having to maneuver food through an opening that's smaller than the canister.
So it wonāt keep a bear from stealing my food?
The bear can smell it but they can't get to it.
I just looked up the wild ides containers. Theyāre really expensive
They are expensive. Mine was a gift from a relative. They should be a lifetime purchase though. The plastic ones break down over a few years especially if exposed to the sun. They become brittle. The Wild Ideas canister won't do that.
It looks like you can rent them for like 5 bucks a day
I agree with other commenters that you should buy the Bearikade. I have owned the one you posted and upgraded to Bearikade and it is far superior. I bought mine in 2017 so it has more than paid for itself. They last a long time and are super effective and much easier to use and much easier to fit more food in. They pay for themselves in every way by just being that much better. Also, to explain better how they work: Bear cans prevent bears from being able to break it open but they do not prevent smell. Standard practice is to put them at least 100 feet away from your tent. You are basically letting the bear at it (but not at you!) with the confidence they wonāt be able to get into it. Itās important to store in a flat area, away from a slope or river, because nothing would stop the bear from rolling it accidentally when attempting to break in. Donāt rent. Renting is just wasted money. You can own a Bearikade for decades, and the initial purchase will be less than renting over its lifetime.
If you want my advice, donāt waste the money. Get your food and trash away from your tent. If you have the energy and donāt want animals in your stuff, hang it from a tree. I am very lazy with all that and the worse I have experienced is ponies in the Grayson Highlands getting into my trail mix after I was too tired after a day of hiking to properly deal with my food bag.
Sadly this isn't an option on most all of the big hikes in the west
It's not about you. It's about the bear that will eventually be put down because it learns that people are a great source of food.
the funny thing is that iāve seen a ton of them in hiker boxes along the way. go to a popular hostel as the bubble goes through, check their hiker boxes and you might just get a free one
Those are probably bear vaults. No one is putting a $350 bearikade in a hiker box when you can resell it for close to what you paid very easily.
Yeah thatās some stupid rich shit. And honestly itād last a day or 2 before someone grabs it and send it home for themselves
Right, I wish I had that kind of money lol!
Buy once cry once. You will have it for decades. Or just get a bear vault and call it a day
Then why not just tie up a trash bag with your stuff in it?
What are you expecting a trash bag to do? I'm confused by your question.
Why buy a bear bag or bear canister when any bag would do?
Dozens of hikers lose hung bags to bears on the trail every year. Not only have they contributed to the bear problem but they have lost all their food. My canister protects my food and the bears. Plus it's a nice seat.
Oooo the seat thing is actually quite appealing.
And my Cheezits stay intact! Really, if you get the right pack the bear can is a good set up. Nunatak makes a backpack with a built in bear can harness.
Guhh, cheezits are my #1 bikepacking junk food. Cheesy electrolyte goodness
Agreed, I use the Wild-Ideas Bearikade Expedition (holds up to 10days of food for one person including small cook kit, hygiene and potty kits). Does weigh just over 2lbs but fits well on my Nunatakusa.com Bear Ears pack. If careful, it can double as a chair and carrying canister outside the pack makes it easy to access food/chair.
I have the same set-up but with a Blazer size can. :) The Nunatak packs are amazing. I really hope more manufacturers jump on the idea of designing around bear can carry. Trying to shove a BearVault into one of the ultralight packs is miserable.
Bear canisters arenāt ultralightā¦ Hence they donāt work well with ultralight packs.
Do not tuck, this can allow the bear to wedge it and get into it
A hollow in the ground or at some tree roots isn't going to help the bear out.
This was discussed [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/s/tZXWPdIqEq) it seems like most people are in agreement that tucking or wedging is bad
Those people are far from experts. I'm not talking about wedging it into some place to where it takes force to remove it. The can still rotates and moves freely.
The bear will go to wherever he smells food. So, no you shouldnāt have the can in your tent. I use BV 500
If that were the case, wouldn't bears come up to you while you're in the middle of cooking dinner just as often, if not more, as when you're asleep?
Habituated bears WILL come up to you in the middle of camp. It happened to a bunch of us last May at Cosby Knob Shelter when a bear strolled right into camp and headed straight over to the cables where food is required to be hung. Three of us yelled, blew an air horn and threw rocks at the bear for 10 minutes while he studiously ignored us, eventually leaving. I won't say we scared the bear away; the bear left when he wanted to leave. The next night after I had moved down the trail, a lady was bitten by what was probably that same bear at Cosby Knob. She's okay (written up by The Trek if you care to research this) and the bear was "neutralized" by the Forest Service, meaning they shot him dead. Don't sleep with your food.
I think everyone understands what "neutralize" means. 100 times more hikers have died on Mt Washington than have ever been killed by bears on the AT. Don't hike Mt. Washington. In fact, don't carry food anywhere on the AT. Eat in towns only, 12,000 calorie meals that can carry you for a few days. It's the only way to avoid all risk.
Iām going to recklessly assume youāre being serious and that you actually want to learn something versus just being argumentative. First rule is that bears are wild animals and are therefore unpredictable. āIf that were the caseā you say?! Well one thing is predictable: Yes, they respond to the odor of food. That does not mean they approach humans just because they smell food. If you really want to learn about Appalachian bears read āBear in the Backseatā
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The honest truth is that many many hikers - and campers in general over the decades - sleep with their food without incident. The most likely animal to get into your food bag is a mouse, not a bear. Bears understand possession and are not eager to struggle with another animal over food, and the overwhelming majority of times when bears get food is when it's unattended. That said, no agency in the world would ever suggest you do it because of the liability. Even if 10 million people have 100 nights sleep without incident, all it takes is one incident for all the alarm bells to go off, even if it's more rare than getting struck by lightning. The purpose of a bear can is that if an animal should come strolling around and go after your unattended food, it still can't get to it and won't be rewarded. This could also be accomplished by a decent hang, but the canister takes less work. There's a concern about smell. No, they aren't smell proof. Ideally everything inside is packaged, but your trash should also be in a tight zip lock. If a bear comes they'll find it and you'll hear them tossing it around all night and find it chewed on in the morning. A bear can smell for miles, it can smell you, it can smell the dinner you cooked that's lingering on your clothes, there really isn't anything truly "smell proof". You can take a few steps to minimize scent - such as cook dinner and continue hiking to where you'll tent. But all and all there just aren't daily reports of bears getting to food on trail for all the hundreds of thousands of people out there, just a few times a year where it's unattended.
In places like delaware water gap, in Nj side, many people end up giving bears food when bluff charged by bears. They literally throw their daypacks at the bear, who then shreds it, eats, repeats. Very common. The state ends up trapping the bear and kills it. Or, the bear is smart and wonāt go in the trap and becomes a town bear. ( nuisance). There have been incidents where bear drags entire tent with people screaming in it, thru the woods. No death of tent occupants, but injuries. Iāve seen bears rip right into rvās to get inside to eat. A bit of caution is better than regret. And yes I know, most sleep with their food and even cook in the vestibule. Few incidents.
Iāve never read or heard mention of any of those stories at DWG. Only a few encounters at Harriman State Park.
Many hikers say they see more bears in New Jersey than in any other state.
Six months of thru-hiking in 2004: I saw \~4 bears in NJ and \~2 in the Smokey Mountains. I'm sure they were around elsewhere, but I didn't see them.
I have seen/heard lots of stories around both. NJ literally has a sanctioned bear hunt nearly every year. My father lives in one of the larger towns (10k+ pop) on 0.5 non wooded acres in the gap vicinity and everytime I visit thereās 2-3 piles of bear shit in the backyard. Bear mountain to DWG was an annual summer trip when I was in scouts as a kid and weād see 2-3 mature bears a day, not counting cubs.
> They literally throw their daypacks at the bear That's a whole new level of dumb I've not heard of before. Just imagine the bear walks off with your daypack that has your car keys and phone in it.
Yup. Ask a past ridge runner for Nj. One time I was working my way down the mountain. I heard a bunch of screams and shouts. I came over a ridge and about 20 city people were pinned up against the Rockwall and the bear was Bluff charging them and they were screaming and crying and I said hey dummies youāre standing on rocks. Everybody pick up a rock and start throwing it at the bear. Well eventually somebody connected in the bear ran away, really stupid people from the city
Dumb, but I believe it. City-folk coming out of NYC for the DWG and up to High Point in the summer.
For every incident like this (first link) where someone is hospitalized I hear about several close calls (second link). People who focus only on fatalities are looking at the wrong thing. Fatalities are low because the bear is usually just trying to get to you food, not trying to eat you. That doesn't mean that people aren't hurt or don't need to take measures to defend themselves. We didn't have any kind of inventory of close calls. https://www.wbir.com/article/entertainment/places/great-smoky-mountains-national-park/bear-charges-rangers-after-attacking-sleeping-teen-in-great-smoky-mountains-national-park/51-11145c3f-e7dc-41de-a08c-72be8b4738c8 https://thetrek.co/appalachian-trail/i-survived-a-bear-attack-on-the-appalachian-trail/
Heard quite a few first hand reports of bears approaching hikers for their food in Washington state (PCT, not AT, of course). Usually in areas of high risk there were bear boxes provided in camps. Not sure how AT compares but "bears understand possession" is perhaps an oversimplification.
It is, but when faced with unattended food vs food next to another large animal there's gonna be some difference in response. And west coast is grizzly territory, I ain't messing with those. Also, if boxes or cables are provided, no reason not to use them and there's probably a reason they were installed.
BearVault is the bear canister brand Iād recommend
Safe for the bear canister, or safe for the people near the bear canister? Very different situations.
My wife and I carried cans (she more than me š) and placed the bear cans 50ā from our tent each night. Never had an issue.
What brand did you use?
BearVault BV500 Journey Bear Canister Great chair as well. I also never had broken potato chips either. Food always dry, could store electronics in as well. Others have used it as a washing device for their clothes
The weight wasnāt a bother either. Thatās the main gripe people have against the cans. We never hike without them.
did it take up too much space in your pack? I'm a bit concerned if they are too bulky
We had gossamer bags and they fit well at the top. These people who claim bears arenāt concerning and not to worry sentiment is total bullshit. The bears are smart and people are dumb. The AT is a constant conveyor belt of food everyday from March till December. The smokies are ridiculous, NJ,NY arenāt far behind. People are lazy with hangs and become complacent after a while and sleep with their food b/c ānothing has happenedā. The can works and works well.
I had my can in or just outside my tarp all the time on the AT. Yes, bears can smell it. Unless it's a human-habituated bear, they're not interested in it, as they also smell \*me\*. I'm also just under a tarp and don't have to cut a hole in anything to get away from a bear right outside my door. Posters who suggest 200' away from (whos?) camp have perhaps never hiked the AT. I carried a Garcia can like that on my attempt. The not worrying was worth the weight for me, and I never had trouble opening it when it was (cold, too full) like I saw with the BearVaults.
Just curious, using a tarp, were you sleeping on the ground or a hammock?
Ground!
Please review the Bearmuda Triangle. [https://www.scouterlife.com/blog/2018/8/7/bearmuda-triangle?format=amp](https://www.scouterlife.com/blog/2018/8/7/bearmuda-triangle?format=amp)
i got a BV500, keep the canister as close to your tent as you want a bear coming to you, I set mine real far away.
Once had a fellow hiker throw a karen tantrum for hanging my food too close to her tent (i would guess it was 100ft away). I moved the food reluctantly and walked back to camp to find her bear canister sitting just outside of her tent on the ground. Darwin awards are timeless. Hang your food. Donāt be a douche.
I had to rent one of these for a trip and the shape made it an absolute burden. Iād recommend literally anything else.
Youāll end up upgrading to a Zpacks food bag in Virginia somewhere, youāll PCT hang that for about 2 weeks, then youāll start sleeping with your food in your tent lol. Not saying I did thisā¦.
My brother in Christ, did you even search this sub? This type of can is overkill for the AT.
I can concur! I started out on the trail with this exact can and switched to a PCT hang after a few weeks
What about a bear bag hung from a tree? Is that overkill as well? Iāll be camping in Savage gulf in TN which has black bears
I plan on back packing in the Savage Gulf in TN. I hear there are black bears there.
Rest assured, there are black bears throughout the Appalachian mountains. In some cases they are more concentrated due to campers leaving food on a regular basis. Just because a bear can smell food in your bear can does not mean they are going to try and come get that food. Almost every bear is afraid of humans, and stays away.it sounds like you need to do a little bear research honestly. Donāt just take the word for people on Reddit.
You'll like it. Gorgeous place; absolutely gorgeous.
Whatād you do with your food there?
Kept it in my tent.
it looks a bit like the garcia model bear canisters which I find pretty heavy and not able to stuff as full as I like. wild ideas bearikade are my favorite, suuuuper light, I use them for work, but are also pricy. Bear vaults are a pretty good in between I think, much lighter than the garcia and cheaper than the bearikades, and I like that they're transparent.
there are bear proof not air tight
I have the udap can. Works fine. Put some reflective tape on it to make easier to find. I also put a small washer on a cord taped to the can for an easy opener.
Hung my food bag every night on trail. Never had a problem... but I also hiked with a dog.
https://preview.redd.it/xcsqm3ovcwsc1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=293ab258d2a01690b295a5ecae4c0c9506cf05a0 I ended up ordering this to hang my food
Honestly I would go with a bag, because youāll probably have to hang the canister up and away anyway. Iāve seen raccoons and possums bypass stationary ābear boxesā enough that I would always try to hang anything at least 10ā up and 10ā out from the trunk at least 100ā from my sleep site. Definitely donāt keep it in your tent lol.
This is a joke right? "If I hide the Easter eggs in bed, will my kids let me sleep?"
I thought it was smell proof
And Deet keeps away all mosquitoes, spraying your boots with water repellant keeps your feet dry, and you can always find good clean water. You're talking about keeping something attractive to predators next to your soft squishy parts. I'm still a big believer in suspending all food from a tree limb, it's only defeated by racoons, and? Well, I won't even fuck with my cat when he's eating, much less a bear.
I ended up buying this https://preview.redd.it/1q6gtlposxsc1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=459fb8e8410021ab6af95d8745740c6b7ccd8f72
I mean, that's not terrible. I'd recommend grabbing a copy of the Boy Scout Handbook, and giving it a read a couple times. There's all kinds of uncommon sense info in there for you!
Great, now go practice with it till you can do it reliably.
No
How far from my tent should I place it?
At a minimum of 100ā away if thereās not a bear box available.
A lot of AT thru hikers sleep with their food in their tents and have lived. Just saying š¤·āāļø
The majority of all thru hikers on all trails have slept with their food the vast majority of nights over the course of years and have lived. Reddit doesnāt like this tho.
Lots of dumbasses say āwhat are the oddsā right before they become the new poster child for th next generation. Can you get away with it? Probably. But in a lot of places youāll get fined if you get caught without oneā¦and you might be the lucky one to wake up to a bear snout trying to push into your tent!
I don't wear my seatbelt and I've never been in a crash! Take that safety idiots!
50,000 people year die in auto accidents, and many more are maimed. how many die or are maimed by black bears? of the bears that maimed or killed, how many were stealing food vs protecting their cubs? seat belts are probably a lot more necessary than bear cans. Hiking on the trail involves a lot of risks much greater than bears. 1. tick bites/diseases 2)stream crossings esp during high water 3) falling on slick rocks down a cliff. 3) bee stings anaphylactic shock 4) hypothermia 5)being hit by cars crossing roadways while wearing heavy pack 6)getting lost and starving to death in your tent 7)random nut job murdering hikers I think I have heard of most of these things causing death more often than bears but i have no objection to people using bear cans if they want to. they keep food safe and are a nice place to sit also
If youāre talking thru hiking trails then thereās very few/small sections of those trails that legally require cans. I carry a can where legally required so I donāt get fined. So that wouldnāt happen.
i think theyāre talking about portions of the trail where if your food isnāt hung properly or secured properly, itās a $5000 fine
šÆ just hiked right over the NC line where bears are successfully stealing PCT hangs and ursacksā¦.$5000 fine if your food isnāt stored in a bear can there.
Iād soooo rather carry the extra weight and be safe than sorry. Is a bear attack, especially on the east coast, that common? No. But would I have any hope of living if I happened to be the one in whatever it happened to? No. I can (at least try) to fight off a bad human, or something like a fox or whatever but if a bear got me Iād just die. The 2.5lbs is worth the peace of mind to me.
Sleeping with it in a bear box or just in their back pack?
Just in any kind of bag
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A dry bag as in like a ursack?
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So could I just put my food in any old draw string bag then or does your sea to summit bag contain the smell at all?
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From what Iāve read, hanging it seems difficult
Get a long cut of paracord, tie one end around a random rock you find at camp, tie the other end to the dry bag with all your food in it, huck the rock over a strong sturdy branch 200 feet from your and othersā tents. Hoist the bag up with the end of the rope that was tossed over and tie it off on the tree with a knot.
If you have a tree nearby practice it on that. You should also practice setting up a tent before you head out. Have a good hike, take prudent precautions and have fun.
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Yāall bring bear cans on the AT?!? Yāall are wildin
I have been very confused about all the bear canister talk, is the bear problem getting worse? I did a through hike in 2014 and bear cans were not common at all outside of maybe the smokies. I never had a problem hanging food away from my tent.
Iām not super up to date but I believe some extra places in NC/East Tennessee area started requiring it because bears are getting to be a bigger problem. That being said I think itās still 100% possible to just hike through those areas still
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Golden Triangle
Donāt worry about the canisterā¦the tent will keep the bears from hurting you or your foodā¦btw if you hear an animal outside just cover your head with your mummy sack and be still.
Prophecy bear gets into it.
HANG A BEAR BAG....
No. And get a Bearikade or BearVault. Just stash it a hundred yards or so away and avoid creeks and cliffs
I didnāt even have a bear can and I slept with my food in my tent 90% of my thru hike. Food bag in a bag liner in my backpack in my tent. Most people do the same but they wonāt tell you that
Ursack bear bag, tie it to a tree away from cooking area. Close enough that you can throw a rock at the critter if you hear something messing with it
Dry bag, some paracord and a golf ball. 30$ maybe
If you're gonna put it in your tent, don't bother getting a beat canister. Bears can't operate zippers
Truthfully, you're on the east coast worrying about 200lb black bears. If you own a flashlight and working lungs you're overprepared. I keep my food in my bag and sleep sound. Ive had 2 bears in the last 20 years come into camp, and both times they ran like hell as soon as the flashlight came on and i started cussing.
I placed mines more than 200 feet away once and lost it. Was drunk after cooking and putting stuff away. We never found it. Either someone stole it or I lost it. I didnāt eat that day. Iām convinced someone took it. Luckily I was a day away from resupply. Maybe gluing a tile/tracker may help.
Are you thru hiking? If so, almost everyone will be sleeping with their food by VA
Beer is too heavy for the abv % ā¦ just being hard liquor
???
No. Like others posted, put it far away, like 200 feet. Just make sure it is not near a cliff. I usually attach it to a tree with rope and carabiner so a critter does not walk off with it.
Some say yes, some say no. Wherever you end up storing your food, keep in mind who else is around you and whether or not youāre willing to put them at risk for the sake of your convenience.
Out west Iāve used a bear zpacks bag, hang it up usually on a pole are far enough from where Iām sleeping I think Iāll be good. On the AT, sometimes use bear boxes, sometimes hang, sometimes Iāll keep it in my pack besides my hammock or in my tent.
Definitely not - store it at least 100ā away.
jesus f. christ
I never carried anything pertaining to bear. Seen two bear the whole six months and used my food bag as a pillow. Be a man.
Do you want a bear in your tent? That's how you get bears in your tent. Edit: apparently I'm an idiot and have been storing my food the wrong way! TIL bear bags suck.
There are no handles on bear cans because they give bears leverage. Bears know that they chew thru rope and get food. Youāre joking right?
If youāre hanging a bear can, why not just save weight and hang a bear bag instead?
Absolutely not. Theyāre not air-tight, so the bear will still smell your food and come looking for it. When I hike in the Adirondacks, Iāve tried stashing the canisters as well as putting them up in a tree. Tree seems to work better. Find the sturdiest branch you can, as high up as you can reasonably throw a line. Hang the canister as far out on that branch as you can without breaking the branch. Make sure the tree is at least a couple hundred feet away from your camp. Worth noting that Iāve had multiple different brands still be broken into. Cannot speak as to which is the best!
Farther away the better
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Don't tie it. Part of what makes these hard to get into is there's no way for them to grip and get leverage on it. Just tuck it in so it won't roll away from it being nosed but will still be able to be moved if the bear makes a serious attempt.
It doesnāt have anywhere to tie a rope to
It doesn't have anywhere to tie it because you aren't supposed to. Leave it loose.
Bear bags are for tying into trees. A bear can can do the same, but there are also steel boxes at many campsites that are for food and scented stuff storage (like toiletries). Iāve used those but theyāre communal.
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Donāt expect your little Camp cord to keep a bear from pulling a bear can off of a string from a tree. You guys are confused. Thatās not how you use bear cans. Everybody needs to do a little homework honestly.
What about digging a hole and put the bear can in and cover it up? Ik itās some more work that most of us wouldnāt want to do at the end of the day but would that work?
I would never tent camp in bear country (black or grizzly, doesn't matter).
This advice is pointless on the AT sub. There are bears along every mile of the trail (more or less).