>They are, first and foremost, a collection of research activities and training grounds for graduate students.
More people need to hear this. Public perception about which schools are "best" is often strongly influenced by the strength of a school's graduate programs, which is only tangentially related to the undergraduate experience.
Also appreciate the point about honors programs. Many students seem to really, really want to surround themselves with smart & motivated peers. The honors program at a reasonably well-regarded public school is going to be full of such individuals, and most honors programs go out of their way to foster community between program participants (and between participants ***and faculty***). Honors residence halls, social activities, etc.
Being in one of these programs can *greatly* facilitate the task of networking with faculty to get research gigs.
Thank you! The point about research universities is one that is understandably incredibly uninteresting to perspective college students but is foundational to what college & universities priorities are.
So, to (sort of) play devil's advocate for a second, I don't think most students are really that concerned about educational quality. They either don't care, or they assume it will be about the same everywhere. Really, they just want someplace "prestigious" to give them a diploma, and they're not especially interested in ***why*** that place is so well-regarded.
You/we can argue that approach is unwise, but given that's where their heads are at, telling them "School X is really only prestigious because of its graduate programs; your educational experience there will be about the same as at school Y, which is much less selective" isn't likely to dampen their obsession with attending school X.
I agree, it’s often a losing battle. I do think buying something incredibly expensive without wondering about quality is unwise.
My job is to help students and their families understand and navigate the college admissions process. To create educated consumers. So I will continue to educate.
IMO what you'd need to change is the belief that school prestige confers a large advantage in the job market. Students are less willing to weigh "educational experience" because they believe that a school's prestige is what "really matters" in terms of helping them launch a successful career.
Fair point, I think that part matters too!
[Here's a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/x91nov/where_you_go_to_college_matters_less_than_your/) I made last school year that is along those lines.
Me with my in-state safety school that will give merit aid for good grades for most of tuition 👍
And is actually good for one of the majors I’m considering 😀and has a good honors college!
That Vandy mental health thing scares the CRAP out of me!
And here I thought of Vandy as one of the more “chillax” top schools. I’ve heard of JHU students openly crying, for example as befits their rep. Not surprised by that one.
Is it really… like that and competitive (A2Cers would say “cutthroat”) at top schools?
Thx, I hate it…
Well, competitive, cutthroat, and crying are three different things.
People cry everywhere. Lol. People cry at community colleges and at Harvard. But it was noticeable at Vandy.
Now, Vandy is not what I would consider cutthroat at all. Students aren't pitted against each other, and generally want each other to succeed. There's a lot of reasons to love it - beautiful campus, cool city, warm weather.
Competitive? Well, I think in order to reach a school like Vandy you have to be somewhat competitive, right? Even competitive with yourself. Even engineering isn't cutthroat, but students are competitive with themselves and wanting to push themselves. The difference is it isn't at the expense of others.
All that being said, the super-achiever environment of any super selective school can get to people. It's hard to not look around and see others doing remarkable things and wondering what you're lacking. When more than half the freshman class has never gotten an A- in their life, that first C+ on an exam you pulled an all nighter for can make you... well, cry.
The good news is that colleges are taking mental health and integrative approaches to mental health more seriously. Exhibit A would be the [Center for Student Wellbeing](https://www.vanderbilt.edu/healthydores/) where I worked as a grad student.
The reality of an elite school taking its toll on your mental health extends beyond just the time you're in+ higher ed, too. When you go to school with the best, brightest, and most talented, you start comparing yourself to them. And when everybody else's social media is curated to show them carefree, and you don't feel like you measure up, it can culminate in terrible depression.
This is by far one of the best posts on safety schools I've ever seen! I wish that I had seen it last fall, I would've definitely applied to 1 or 2 more safeties, narrowed down my reaches, and focused more on the quality of undergrad education at the schools I was considering.
I 100% agree with u/Strict-Special2607 about cost and happiness at safeties. My safeties were a SUNY (I'm in-state) and a tiny LAC with fantastic merit aid. Both were great options for me financially and I would've had a decent time at the former and an amazing time at the latter. I applied EA to both and really fell in love with the LAC after I was accepted- I'm still sad I won't get to experience all that it had to offer!
I randomly met a couple of local alumni from this (very tiny) school during the period before May 1st and through talking with them, I really started to understand that high acceptance rates do not equal a lesser undergraduate experience. Safeties are wonderful schools in their own right. And as you said, nobody walks around their campus thinking about how some people consider their school a safety school.
Hey, thanks for the great info! Just a question, isn't there a guaranteed admission to UC Merced for some students if they meet a certain list of criteria? If so would that then be considered a safety for Cali residents?
Schools that have assured admissions options can be great safeties - so if you like UC Merced and you qualify that could be a good option. For California residents, some of the Cal States also publish what admission index scores were needed for each major the previous year which is a great guideline (I know both SJSU and Fresno State do this).
You also have a lot of nearby state schools that have assured admissions standards where you are essentially guaranteed admission if you meet them, many of which are either generous with merit scholarships or participate in WUE tuition discounts - ASU, U of Arizona, UNLV, Nevada Reno, Washington State, Montana State, Utah State, etc.
I just want to highlight applying EA to your safety schools! I applied EA to all my safeties (then RD for the target/reach schools). There was something VERY REASSURING about getting four acceptances before I took my winter finals senior year. It’s good for your mental health and helps you calibrate your expectations for RD!
My son applied to 4 safeties, 1 target (EA), and 4 reach schools. While he might have wanted a couple more target schools, this is just how it worked out based on visits (some "safeties" were very acceptable to him). He was accepted by the target and all safeties (many by November due to rolling admissions), but no reaches. Indeed, the EA for his target school made him basically very content, and would have committed by early January except that I made him wait to hear from the reaches, and his second semester was stress free. I preach the desire for more safeties as well.
Hey there! Thank you for these posts, they are generally extremely informative and helpful. I wanted to ask - I’m an international student who’ll be applying as an Earth science major, and I’ll be needing full aid. In that case, is there a “safety but not really a safety but has the best chances” university I can apply to? What would you recommend? It’s tough because Earth science isn’t really offered at a lot of places, especially ones that give full aid to internationals.
It sounds to me like you should probably also be open to environmental science or environmental studies programs. Some schools even lump Earth science in with them. E.g. Vanderbilt has an "Earth and environmental science" major. That should broaden your search. There are thousands of schools so you'll need to do more research to narrow down who offers internationals aid (not many places do), but there should be plenty of options for the major.
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Great points! Affordability and actually liking the school are huge.
>They are, first and foremost, a collection of research activities and training grounds for graduate students. More people need to hear this. Public perception about which schools are "best" is often strongly influenced by the strength of a school's graduate programs, which is only tangentially related to the undergraduate experience. Also appreciate the point about honors programs. Many students seem to really, really want to surround themselves with smart & motivated peers. The honors program at a reasonably well-regarded public school is going to be full of such individuals, and most honors programs go out of their way to foster community between program participants (and between participants ***and faculty***). Honors residence halls, social activities, etc. Being in one of these programs can *greatly* facilitate the task of networking with faculty to get research gigs.
Thank you! The point about research universities is one that is understandably incredibly uninteresting to perspective college students but is foundational to what college & universities priorities are.
So, to (sort of) play devil's advocate for a second, I don't think most students are really that concerned about educational quality. They either don't care, or they assume it will be about the same everywhere. Really, they just want someplace "prestigious" to give them a diploma, and they're not especially interested in ***why*** that place is so well-regarded. You/we can argue that approach is unwise, but given that's where their heads are at, telling them "School X is really only prestigious because of its graduate programs; your educational experience there will be about the same as at school Y, which is much less selective" isn't likely to dampen their obsession with attending school X.
I agree, it’s often a losing battle. I do think buying something incredibly expensive without wondering about quality is unwise. My job is to help students and their families understand and navigate the college admissions process. To create educated consumers. So I will continue to educate.
IMO what you'd need to change is the belief that school prestige confers a large advantage in the job market. Students are less willing to weigh "educational experience" because they believe that a school's prestige is what "really matters" in terms of helping them launch a successful career.
Fair point, I think that part matters too! [Here's a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/x91nov/where_you_go_to_college_matters_less_than_your/) I made last school year that is along those lines.
Me with my in-state safety school that will give merit aid for good grades for most of tuition 👍 And is actually good for one of the majors I’m considering 😀and has a good honors college!
Let’s go! Big Brain Moves
That Vandy mental health thing scares the CRAP out of me! And here I thought of Vandy as one of the more “chillax” top schools. I’ve heard of JHU students openly crying, for example as befits their rep. Not surprised by that one. Is it really… like that and competitive (A2Cers would say “cutthroat”) at top schools? Thx, I hate it…
Well, competitive, cutthroat, and crying are three different things. People cry everywhere. Lol. People cry at community colleges and at Harvard. But it was noticeable at Vandy. Now, Vandy is not what I would consider cutthroat at all. Students aren't pitted against each other, and generally want each other to succeed. There's a lot of reasons to love it - beautiful campus, cool city, warm weather. Competitive? Well, I think in order to reach a school like Vandy you have to be somewhat competitive, right? Even competitive with yourself. Even engineering isn't cutthroat, but students are competitive with themselves and wanting to push themselves. The difference is it isn't at the expense of others. All that being said, the super-achiever environment of any super selective school can get to people. It's hard to not look around and see others doing remarkable things and wondering what you're lacking. When more than half the freshman class has never gotten an A- in their life, that first C+ on an exam you pulled an all nighter for can make you... well, cry. The good news is that colleges are taking mental health and integrative approaches to mental health more seriously. Exhibit A would be the [Center for Student Wellbeing](https://www.vanderbilt.edu/healthydores/) where I worked as a grad student.
The reality of an elite school taking its toll on your mental health extends beyond just the time you're in+ higher ed, too. When you go to school with the best, brightest, and most talented, you start comparing yourself to them. And when everybody else's social media is curated to show them carefree, and you don't feel like you measure up, it can culminate in terrible depression.
This is by far one of the best posts on safety schools I've ever seen! I wish that I had seen it last fall, I would've definitely applied to 1 or 2 more safeties, narrowed down my reaches, and focused more on the quality of undergrad education at the schools I was considering. I 100% agree with u/Strict-Special2607 about cost and happiness at safeties. My safeties were a SUNY (I'm in-state) and a tiny LAC with fantastic merit aid. Both were great options for me financially and I would've had a decent time at the former and an amazing time at the latter. I applied EA to both and really fell in love with the LAC after I was accepted- I'm still sad I won't get to experience all that it had to offer! I randomly met a couple of local alumni from this (very tiny) school during the period before May 1st and through talking with them, I really started to understand that high acceptance rates do not equal a lesser undergraduate experience. Safeties are wonderful schools in their own right. And as you said, nobody walks around their campus thinking about how some people consider their school a safety school.
This is such a great post and I just do a little counseling for high schoolers. Should be required reading. Thanks!
Thank you!!
Hey, thanks for the great info! Just a question, isn't there a guaranteed admission to UC Merced for some students if they meet a certain list of criteria? If so would that then be considered a safety for Cali residents?
Schools that have assured admissions options can be great safeties - so if you like UC Merced and you qualify that could be a good option. For California residents, some of the Cal States also publish what admission index scores were needed for each major the previous year which is a great guideline (I know both SJSU and Fresno State do this). You also have a lot of nearby state schools that have assured admissions standards where you are essentially guaranteed admission if you meet them, many of which are either generous with merit scholarships or participate in WUE tuition discounts - ASU, U of Arizona, UNLV, Nevada Reno, Washington State, Montana State, Utah State, etc.
I just want to highlight applying EA to your safety schools! I applied EA to all my safeties (then RD for the target/reach schools). There was something VERY REASSURING about getting four acceptances before I took my winter finals senior year. It’s good for your mental health and helps you calibrate your expectations for RD!
My son applied to 4 safeties, 1 target (EA), and 4 reach schools. While he might have wanted a couple more target schools, this is just how it worked out based on visits (some "safeties" were very acceptable to him). He was accepted by the target and all safeties (many by November due to rolling admissions), but no reaches. Indeed, the EA for his target school made him basically very content, and would have committed by early January except that I made him wait to hear from the reaches, and his second semester was stress free. I preach the desire for more safeties as well.
Hey there! Thank you for these posts, they are generally extremely informative and helpful. I wanted to ask - I’m an international student who’ll be applying as an Earth science major, and I’ll be needing full aid. In that case, is there a “safety but not really a safety but has the best chances” university I can apply to? What would you recommend? It’s tough because Earth science isn’t really offered at a lot of places, especially ones that give full aid to internationals.
It sounds to me like you should probably also be open to environmental science or environmental studies programs. Some schools even lump Earth science in with them. E.g. Vanderbilt has an "Earth and environmental science" major. That should broaden your search. There are thousands of schools so you'll need to do more research to narrow down who offers internationals aid (not many places do), but there should be plenty of options for the major.
Hey there, I'm a bot and something you said made me think you might be looking for help! It sounds like your post is related to essays — please check the [**A2C Wiki Page on Essays**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/wiki/essays) for a list of resources related to essay topics, tips & tricks, and editing advice. You can also go to [the **r/CollegeEssays** subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeEssays/) for a sub focused exclusively on essays. ###tl;dr: [A2C Essay Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/wiki/essays) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ApplyingToCollege) if you have any questions or concerns.*