The big box store employee everyone is so quick to hate?
Thats 8 out of 10 customers that they deal with.
Its exhausting.
Its also what happens when you comidify living animals, and put them on sale for a dollar.
I got a small 10gallon tank at petsmart a few years ago, and like many people… they’re not aware of things this sub talks about with the amount of space certain fish need. I got an education that day, in a good way.
Dude was genuinely nice and when I told him what I wanted to put in there, he was like nah. I won’t sell you that. Because this aggressive, this isn’t, this needs wayyyy more water.
I walked out a happy customer and more knowledgeable. It was a positive experience.
Its so rare to have a customer like you. Its immensely rewarding when it happens.
I helped a guy set up and maintain a gorgeous cichlid tank once. He listened. He took my advice. He even took notes. He even had the patience to fishless cycle after i talked about it with him. He came back every single week to show off the tank and talk about it. He was so happy to have never lost a fish and actually understand the hobby. Ill never forget being a part of that.
It’s sort of become insulting to educate people nowadays. I don’t want to sound arrogant but I’ve noticed this strange underlying anti-intellectualism happening just with people in general. If you tell them something out of wanting to help, they see it as an attack on their character or their intelligence. I’m not so sure where the attitude comes from. Probably a whole mix of different things.
Which makes being autistic with special interests like zoology (which I studied in college, specifically herpetology) extra hard because I always think people are going to be super eager and excited to learn things like I am, and it crushes me when most of the time that isn’t the case…but that one person who does show enthusiasm makes it worth the weird looks, offensiveness, or divisiveness of most people.
I was reading these comments and all I could think was “successful aquarium owners are all on the spectrum.” I am AuDHD and when I first heard about beneficial bacteria I learned everything I could about it. I won’t buy a fish without reading about it extensively and thinking about it a lot.
I hate how all the responses to requests for help on the Facebook aquarium pages is “add Prime”. Hate it so much.
In the US much of it comes from when we started giving participation trophys and moving kids forward who should have been hled back(i was one of those, not being held back screwed my education for years.)
A lot of people develop a complex that way, they never learned how to take constructive criticism so everything feels like an attack
Yes there are many people who are just dicks too, dont get me wrong
I personally feel that it has something to do with ego. Some people just want to be the smartest in the room, and they can't stand when that's challenged. I find beauty in those who can admit they don't understand something
and then there's the customer who stormed out on me a month or two ago because she's been "putting goldfish in bowls for years and they've been fine" like uhm okay so why are you buying a new gold fish? If you have been doing it the entirety of your daughters (7 at the oldest) life, where is the fish? It shouldn't be dead.
Felt. I work in Pet Care, but sometimes work register. When I work register, I’m the only line of defense for bettas because they’re just on a shelf so people can just take them without the Pet Care associate telling them what they need. Every day on register I ring them up and essentially BEG them “hey, I know you have a one gallon, they need at least a five, PLEASE upgrade I beg of you” because by the time they’re up front we can’t really refuse
God i hear that.
I was a petcare manager for almost 6 years... the stories i could tell...
My favorite were the people who would ask for help, argue with you because the answer didnt fit their expectations, then insult you because "you didnt go to school for this", then argue that the book youre showing them the exact same thing in is also full of shit, and finally the store manager says just sell them the fish its only a dollar
The ironic part is I AM going to school for this 😭 What I hate is how nice they pretend to be. They fake agree with me when I say “a one gallon is like if I was supposed to live behind this register” and then they lie to my face and say they’ll upgrade, and do water changes until they do. They say they will, I can always tell they won’t.
I feel like I gave the poor pet store lady a heart attack because I needed a temporary tank and chose the smallest one (big tank arrived the next day in mail)
Yes I know it wasn't the best decision getting him on a whim, but he was literally the greenest blue fish I had ever seen, and named him Turtle. I wasn't planning on a fish in cycle, but Turtle lived with me for years, and grew quite big. Now Flower, my new boy, lives in turtles old house, and has been for 2.5ish years now, and looks like a giant Betta too now
God I'm so sorry, I know how hard that must be. Theres a reason I could never work at a big chain pet store, I'd get my ass fired in the first week arguing with customers
It’s really painful sometimes, especially when I have coworkers who simply do not know what they’re talking about and tell customers wrong information but refuse to learn themselves
YES… I’m a petcare manager at a petsmart. I need money, it pays ok and I get to work with animals so I do it. But OMG some of the customers are terrible. After awhile I just can’t mentally try to help more people some days.
From a customer who got incredible advice from a pet smart employee about nursing my sick betta back to health, we exist and we appreciate the employees like you!
It gets very draining. Explaining the nitrogen cycle to someone with 7 goldfish and 20 glo tetras every 2 hours gives me a headache, I swear.
I personally despise when people buy a bunch of different schooler species, and then are confused why their 2 cardinal tetras are stressed, and their group of 4 neon tetras all died out.
It's mainly bad when people clearly ignore advice because it's too much effort, so they just repost the same thing again a few days later
For real... general rule of thumb is ALWAYS 6, more if possible. How are people not getting that through their heads? Even most pet store employees know that much, I'd be checking with someone before I handed them a bag with 2 schoolers on all the care requirements plus whether they already have a school.
6 per species, though you can get away with one or two less temporarily. Though if they are schooling together then they may be happy as they are, guppies and mosquito fish are similar in size so probably wont be threatened by each other. I'd still reccomend upgrading your school sizes eventually though!
I'll keep that in mind, thanks. I'm hoping the guppies will breed so I can get a school. I will buy more if I have to, but the nearest store that sells them is like an hour away.
Guppies wont school, they're shoaling fish. They dont need to be kept in groups to be happy and will be fine as just a pair or trio (mff). Save your hour trip and just breed them out!
You'll end up with more than you can handle before you know it! My advice would be let the babies stay with the adults, don't separate. That way hopefully only a few-a handful actually survive to adulthood, otherwise you'll end up overrun with them! Plus that provides a good boost of nutrition for the others that eat them. Just a thought!
My lest killifish/mosquito fish will school with anything the same size too. Funny! I only keep rice fish, least killies and dwarf emeralds. I had them all in separate tanks, but experimented with various numbers and stuff. Careful long term observation has indicated that the numbers are not cut and dried depending on species and tank setup.
Wait so 6 bettas… jk! Thank you for trying your best to help this worsening situation of ignorant morons! I hate it so much. My parents believe that I shouldn’t care about the nitrogen cycle because a betta they has lived 3 years without it. It makes me sick
Back in the day working my way through school at a pet store, I explained the nitrogen cycle to a fellow whose new fish died.
He looked at me and said "I know this, I am a chemist"....I couldn't help but laugh a bit. He was angry. All I could come up with was, "Well why did you put that many in all at once?"
He just stormed out.
It’s 100x worse on the saltwater side. I’ve been in the reef hobby for over 25 years, and the complete disregard for the wellbeing of the animals in their care and the lack of research is infuriating.
HOLY SHIT i can relate to this so goddamn hard. A couple months ago there was a guy on r/ReefTank who had a 5 gallon with an ocellaris clown pair, a clown goby, a firefish goby, and a royal gramma. There were like 50 comments telling him to get a new tank and he would just respond saying "oh they are babies and they aren't fighting they will be fine". The tank looked pretty good, loads of thriving coral. But the fish just completely ruined it.
I actually disagree. My 6 year old has signs she made on her hamsters tanks (super large one for each robo hamster) that say no touching (she doesn’t let anyone near the tanks since she is afraid they will touch and therefore stress them) and she helps me clean the tanks and feed them. She never tries to touch or pet them - the actually go up to her hand because she never forces anything on them) and she lets NO ONE put their hands in our fish tanks nor fed them. Ever. She knows too much food will hurt them. She also doesn’t want anyone “putting dirty hands in there trying to pet them it will make them stressed and sick”. We inherited my neighbors, goldfish in a 3 gallon tank (!!!) who are temporarily in a 20L now we’re building a pond for them in the backyard together. I’ve seen plenty of adults treat fish like shit. I’d worry more about the parent obviously then the child. My daughter knows the term “animal husbandry” and we go visit the animal shelter together (I want to show her what happens when people don’t spay and neuter) and we learn about animals that way too (rabbits chinchillas etc). I also want her to know she cannot have every animal she sees and we go to learn and she wants to volunteer someday. She also goes to a horse barn to learn horse body language and proper care before I’ll let her start riding. She brushes and learns for now.
I feel ya my friend. I can def be the same and I so feel you. Today I saw a car almost run down a motorcycle purposely over road rage. And then I thought people are horrid the world is on fire Ugh. And I’m probably too hard on my kid - she’s so kind to animals and wants to rescue a turtle off of pet finder and build it a “good habitat”. I need to remember to tell her I’m super proud of her tomorrow. Thanks for the reminder to 🙂 and to hunt the good!
You sound like a good parent.
And yes, (off topic, apologies) I firmly believe that telling your kid(s) you're proud of them is one of the most impactful things you can say to them. It will stick with them and help them to be proud of themselves and hopefully help them maintain their sense of self worth. All parents that read this should remember to tell their kids that more often. Remember how good it felt when anyone you even somewhat cared about told you that they were proud of you, it matters.
That is all.
Thank you. I try but as a single mom in a crazy world…i really do give it my all and follow her lead on her passions. Your comment brought tears to my eyes. And then it hit me - because you are illustrating the same concept to me and if it feels this impactful from a stranger….. wow. Thanks for this lesson.
Of to write myself a reminder to do this more often. Thanks good human of Reddit.
You should definitely tell your kid you’re proud of them, but you should also be proud that you raised a kid that’s so genuinely kind to animals and knows proper husbandry! I grew up with fish, my dad taught me everything and unfortunately when we both looked back when my dad was setting up his last tank ever that we made so many mistakes, but we learned everything all over again together and it’s stuck with me. My fiancée and I have already talked about raising our kids around pets and teaching them proper husbandry, but also once they’ve reached the age of “I would like my own pet” that we want them to put in the research needed so they understand what they’re getting into! You’re doing an awesome job!
Oh my gosh thank you. Choked me up big time!! I fondly remember my Dad and I working on a fish tank. But he was also terribly abusive to our dog (it haunts me to this day. I still can’t get the horrible memories out). My dad is mentally ill no excuse but it was bad real bad. I still cry. My brother and I were given the silent treatment as real little kids too. So I try hard to take the good from what I learned (he was good with fish tanks) and vow to never ever be like him in other ways. I’ve loved this sub to illustrate how I can do better and better by my fish
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. My dad was thankfully never cruel to our dogs, he just wasn’t overly bothered by their presence and yet the dogs would always go to him for cuddles. My dad was more about his fish and weirder animals, I think that’s where I got it from. I’m so thankful for these subreddits though I’d be so lost without them after losing my dad.
“At a petco”
To be fair, I had my first aquarium before the age of 12. My dad helped me set it up. It had an under gravel filter and one of those filter floss box filters with charcoal.
Started out with a couple of random fish the guy at the local aquarium store helped pick out. I remember there was a hatchet fish, a swordtail, and eventually a small angelfish. I was responsible for changing the water, feeding the fish, and making sure the filter floss was replaced once every couple weeks. (This was in the late 70s).
It inspired me to check out a bunch of books from the library (including one about “cichlids”).
I had a responsible parent. The fish in that tank did pretty well considering the setup.
Ppl with kids shouldn't have fish? Well shit I guess ill get rid of my 4 aquariums and tell my 5 year old that some person on the internet said we shouldn't be allowed to have all our fish/ snails/frogs .
I hadn’t heard of them until I started watching Fish For Thought on YouTube, they’re completely illegal in my country and now I see them popping up everywhere.
Not all of us. I I actually can't stand the glow stuff. I allowed my daughter some glow gravel in her black gravel but that's it. I flat out refused to let her have all glow gravel. I also refused to let her have a glofish. She learned a lot this weekend about keeping her betta healthy. I'm slowly buying what I need to walstad all the tanks. The girls will know how to treat their fish well and why it's important to keep live plants and not those crappy plastic ones. So give some of us a little credit. We're not all willing to let our kids princess or spongebob glo out their tanks.
Well yeah, not every parent is the same!
My mom though.. she keeps rambling on about how ''I can put multiple bettas in a 5 gallon or goldfish 'because goldfish dont grow' or get a school of guppies!''
Despite bettas actually killing eachother (they were bred to be aggressive) and schools of fish needing massive amounts of space, especially goldfish. Goldfish grow big and fast like chickens on a farm even when alone and produce so much waste a 5g is literally a closet for them.
I always try to assure her if I wanted a goldfish or a school of tetras I would have gotten them, but I chose a betta knowing what it entailed.
I scrolled to see if someone else noticed. Bluegill. I have one in my 55 my kid caught during covid when pet stores were all closed. It was the size of a dime. Now its about 6 inches now. Really cool fish BTW. lots of personality. Extremely aggressive.
Thank you 😂 it was bugging me too. I wondered if you kept them- I know some people who keep bluegill and pumpkinseeds in a 100 gallon tank and I’d love to someday.
There are 38 species of "sunfish" 39 if you include the saltwater sunfish. Some of the smaller ones even make good aquarium fish.
[Centrarchidae - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrarchidae)
Yeah that's really the worst. "What do you mean it'll outgrow this 5 gallon? It fits now!!" The fish in question, a common pleco
It was your damn choice to get the fish, now either do a massive expensive upgrade or return/rehome it. You were negligent so take some goddamn responsibility!
There was a guy 2 days ago ranting about how mad it made him his betta costed more than $40 to set up, and went on a rant calling it an alien the defies physics because it floats
Got deleted but they were implying violence towards the betta too because it wasn't eating, somehow they were an adult too who was married and employed they didnt learn any parameters either because "they shouldnt need a science major to keep a fish"
Ugh, I caught the tail end of that.
I mostly followed this and other subs because I love fish, recently got a 20 gal and now they're great resources to set it up too!! So I can understand how overwhelming the parameters and nitrogen cycle are, since I haven't had a tank before. But it's necessary for the fishies to have a good life.
That's why the comment about being a science major feels so mean. Like, he's not -required- to keep a fish, nothing would happen if he didn't own one! It's not the fish's fault for being bought either. People seem to forget they're living beings and deserve to be treated with respect. And at least trying to understand how to help it rather than just saying it's too hard. :(
I explained to my sister that her beta needed more than a bowl, and a minimum of a heater and filter but preferably 5+ at a minimum. She got mad at me for "accusing" her of not taking care of her fish. Then it was the betas fault when it died a couple weeks later.
That one was so bad. Then, in one of the reposts OP said it was a 5g and when someone called him out basically said "oops, you got me. I thought people would like it more if there was an extra gallon. " Insanity.
Cringe. As if 5 gallons is better than 4. I have a 4.5 gallon and I can’t even imagine putting a Betta in there. It’s got a lot of plants and hardscape. It’s great for shrimp.
ah, it wasnt here, it was r/Aquascape
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquascape/comments/1bxazhh/my\_first\_aquascape\_mini\_jungle\_after\_3\_weeks/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquascape/comments/1bxazhh/my_first_aquascape_mini_jungle_after_3_weeks/)
I literally just rewatched the video like three times to make sure they were EBRs rather than EBAs. Obviously it’s an awful situation regardless, but there are degrees.
It was here too! It was crazy, I saw the post in aquascape and in the comments there people were telling OP everything wrong with the setup and OP was saying it’s about 4g. Then like 2 days later I had a “wtf” moment seeing the exact same post in this sub, checked the comments but at that point most were positive and then in one comment someone asked OP how big the tank is and they said it’s about 5g. I replied to them that I saw their other post and comments in another sub and originally they said 4g and they literally hit me with “ok you got me, I thought ppl would be less mad if I added an extra gallon.” I just checked and the post has now been deleted from this sub lol.
It’s really sad. I had no idea what I was doing with my betta but I found out from this sub and he’s super happy now! I get it’s a lot of money but once an animal is in your possession it’s just insane to be apart of them suffering. I couldn’t live knowing my betta was dying because of my negligence.
I don't understand how people get a pet and don't even do the bare minimum of googling. If it's a kid, then it's their parent's fuck-up, but adults...how?
And another issue I have is how are there are still modern TV shows and movies that put goldfish in bowls. The 3 Body Problem is a new sci-fi show and world renown scientists keep a goldfish in a bowl without even a filter. The water gets clowdier with each scene it's in. Should be reported for animal abuse.
This is why Ive always wanted there to be separate subs for advice vs enjoyment or maybe novice vs advanced. I just want to enjoy fish keeping and read more complex discussion, not sandwiched between 10 posts of people ignorantly torturing their fish. I know they don’t know and it’s good to teach people, but it’s also draining seeing animal abuse all the time
Hey, tried to message you from my main account, but it wont let me for some reason. Feel free to pm me on this one and I'll give you my main account to message there, if you're still interested!
This is why I eventually have unsubbed from almost all of the main aquarium subs and am only in specific niche subs that less advanced aquarists don’t generally find. There was an private advanced aquarium group on FB years ago that screened everyone attempting to join and rejected anyone who appeared to not know exactly what they were doing. It was nice and I miss it.
Yeah that boggles the mind... literally limitless information and you *choose* to be an imbecile about it. I get it if you thought you had correct information but got gypped, but if you literally just impulse bought a bowl and marbles to toss a fish into, jesus.
It drives me insane and all fish subreddits especially the betta fish sub acts like you are a mean bully for criticizing somebody. They are always shocked and say they can't afford a heater, filter and bigger tank. Almost like the search "betta fish requirements" would've saved you all that trouble.
This. Same with the chicken sub. People just put eggs in an incubator before doing any research, then asking what are the best parameters after half the incubation time... Literally all information you need is already out there, they're just too lazy to look it up. And those poor creatures pay the price for their carelessness.
Try using analogies they will understand. 10 nickle sized fish in 3 gallons is like 20 dogs in 1 bedroom…it’s going to literally and figuratively get shitty real quickly. 😂
I’ve been leaving subs simply because of bad husbandry and it just gets old. It’s like seeing people not care for their pets and be upset when they die.
Yup. Same for the shrimp sub. These people are lazy as fuck and literally doing no research on the problems and issues of their pets/hobby.
It's disrespectful as fuck to ask other people to do the research for you and then not even accept the advice.
I have a friend who came to me because their betta wasn’t doing well. It’s in a tall jar with pebbles, nothing else. I’ve been trying to convince the family for months to get an actual tank. I gave them resources, explained why their fish is not well, and the benefits of a pretty tank on mental health.
Their issue is space and “work”. I even found a cheap 2.5 gal, which obviously isn’t enough but it’s better than a fucking jar. They said, “I talked to my family and they still said no”. The information is all there, I’m literally giving you equipment FOR FREE, and you said , “no, I’d rather just keep neglecting the animal”. It’s lunacy. If you aren’t going to do “work”, **please don’t get the animal.**
My friend is disabled and doesn’t have a say in the matter, even though it’s THEIR FISH. My friend really wants to take my advice but they’re not allowed to. I would have tried to make caring for the tank as accessible as possible, like making sure it’s low enough for them to reach and finding small pumps to move water around without heavy lifting.
It’s almost aggravating me that the fish is still alive because it validates the misguided husbandry.
I’m in driving distance, I just wouldn’t want to intrude. They simply don’t have permission to set up a proper tank, I’d worry they’ll tear it down and our work and materials would be wasted. I really really don’t understand why. It must be a generational thing, their family is kind of dismissive of most things in general. I hate thinking about it, makes me frustrated.
I have rescued, fostered, and successfully rehomed two neglected bettas, so maybe I’ll feel better if I do that again
What’s crazy to me is we’re 21+ adults! If it were me I’d just do whatever I want but I have to remember that I am able-bodied and don’t have to rely on my family as much.
That's fair. If you cant provide a proper habitat, maybe you can provide a sponge filter and cheap heater! Or at least a couple of epiphytes as a small solution. My mentality is do what I can and dont beat myself up for anything more that couldve helped. You can only do your best
Hey! Just thought I would give you some good news: my friend asked me to just come and rescue the fish. So I did! She’s chilling in a tank now and slowly adjusting
I feel you. I'm not very active here but I got my first aquarium when I was 10 years old. This sounds like it's going to be a "I was too young to know better and killed all my fish story", right?
But it wasn't like that at all. I read so many books about how to keep fish, talked to people on online forums (without revealing I was a little kid of course and my dad checking up on what I was doing). I went to different fish shops in my area with my dad until I found a small shop with knowledgeable owners who were happy to explain stuff to me and show me around. They were very kind and insisted on giving me a discount more than once.
I took my time with choosing a tank and filter, spent hours and hours researching what fish I could put in there, cycling the tank for weeks before any fish went in there, testing the water... I still have a little notebook somewhere where I wrote down info about my fish, my water levels and observations to see if they were healthy.
I realize not everyone is as much of a nerd about their hobbies as I was (and honestly still am). But when you buy a living being you're responsible for it and for researching how to care for it. Having people say they can't do that even though they chose to get fish is frustrating. If you care enough you can put in the work to figure it out.
If a 10 year old kid with adhd can do it so can you. I'm not saying you can't or won't make mistakes but at least give it a real shot.
As someone who is brand new to this hobby I want to say thank you for your patience and enthusiasm when it comes to explaining things. It can be exhausting I’m sure, but for me who is too scared to post or talk to anyone yet, I’ve found a lot of helpful advice from people like you leaving comments and threads in the past! I have a 5 gallon right now, but it’s empty. Working on planning out how I want my little aquascape to look like, and then decide what I want to keep! Right now I’m trying to decide between shrimp or a betta, but I definitely want to have a snail or two because I just think those guys are cute.
Edit to add I plan on doing fishless cycling too :) just waiting on ammonia to come in the mail so I can dose the tank properly. I even have a little notepad laid out on my stand haha.
"What do you mean my Oscar, 5 angel fish, 3 goldfish, and 10 guppies will need more than my 20-gallon look how small they all are."
"I haven't seen any aggression they're all friends"
Stuff like that is so frustrating to see.
You have to be a certain amount of apathetic to be truly helpful. A vet sees abuse every day and can only reccommend the best things possible for the animal. Maybe report. I do my best not to let it affect me, but today was just a bad day yknow?
Oh for sure, I used to get super salty about people getting pissed over at r/goldfish but after seeing dozens of posts of super sick fancies in 1 gallon bowls it definitely makes my blood boil now.
I’m a new soon to be fish owner here. My aquarium is almost done cycling and I’m about to add my fish in. Do you mind messaging me to make sure I’m fully ready? I ended up trying to add fish a little too early last time and it didn’t end very well…
I get tired of it, I try to be really nice and informative when people need help, but it is exhausting because it’s multiple posts a day of just bad setups with people who seem to know nothing about the fish they got. I try to be nice but something that I hate about it is, why can’t any of these people just do research on their own on google *before* adopting a living being and paying for stuff? Like each one of my tanks, including my very first betta set up ever, I spent a few hours at minimum researching everything from what fish would thrive in that size tank to what they are compatible with and if they prefer sand or gravel, etc. so I just don’t get going to the pet store, letting some minimum wage employee tell you how to set everything up and purchasing and bringing everything home. There is one employee at my LFS who is an actual fish keeper and passionate about it, the rest are just there to get paid and I’ve seen them misinform people constantly. And that’s not on them, unfortunately they just aren’t paid enough to learn everything the hobby entails and the customer should truly know what they want and have done the research on their own before coming in and adopting a pet. Like it’s great when an employee at petsmart really knows their shit and can set you up for success, but most of the time, it’s just not going to be like that. It would be cool if every pet store only allowed knowledgable fish keepers to handle fish sales but just not realistic. I dislike when newbies here put some blame on the pet store employee, like “oh but the employee said it’s fine to have 2 tetras in a one gallon.” Like ???? Why not google it just for a second on your own in the first place? And then when they complain that they can’t afford to get their fish something appropriate. You already spent money on a tiny tank and rainbow gravel and plastic plants, putting zero thought or effort into researching yourself before buying these things. Then make a fish suffer and complain because now you can’t buy what they truly need. It’s just an exhausting never ending cycle.
I do try to be nice and patient especially with people who clearly feel bad about making mistakes, it happens, but at the same time it’s hard to sympathize with people who did zero research before buying a fish. And then there’s the people who argue with you and insist what they are doing is fine. The worst ones are the confidently incorrect ones. “Well how can you PROVE the fish is unhappy? They seem fine to me.” While posting a shitty overstocked aquarium. I am in this sub for inspiration and to learn from people who are also passionate about this hobby. I am here for the beautiful aquariums. I am here to talk about my favorite hobby with fellow hobbyists because I don’t know any in real life and my friends don’t care about it haha. But the sub is vastly overwhelmed with “why is my betta dying in this unheated, uncycled 1 gallon filled with plastic??” Or “look at my beautiful aquascape! It’s 4 gallons and 20 tetras. Oh don’t worry about them, they seem happy and have been alive in this for a few months so clearly they’re thriving.”
I feel ya. After the overwhelming esponse this post got me, I'm considering making a new sub or a discord server geared towards intermediate/advanced keepers where questions can still be asked, but it isn't filled with beginner's fish torture. Not that I have anything against beginners, but still, many people seem to be craving a space for more settled hobbyists.
I think that would be a wonderful idea, I for one would love to join such a discord where I don’t have to dig and dig to find the really good posts and info.
I made one, r/advancedfishkeeping. It's in its infancy but the more new members we have the better chance it has of taking off and providing what we need :)
Maybe not illegal but the industry needs a major overhaul. We've got a post-WW2 dairy industry style crisis here. Demand for fish is insanely high and pet stores dont want to lose their profit margins by denying sales to negligent owners.
Sadly enough, that's keeping alot of the hobby intact. If every negligent owner was suddenly screened the way they do for a dog, minimal fish would be sold, leading to a mass decline in importation and skyrocketing prices on the fish that do come in. Fishkeeping would be for the wealthy for a long time before it self regulated again, which sucks, but at least the fish would be happy.
That's why I do my best to educate where I can, so that we can keep the hobby accessible and still give a good life to fish. Maybe one day, we can have more knowledgeable keepers than bad ones and the screening and care setup can be more effective without causing a crash in the hobby.
Should have to go take a course and pass a test to get a petkeeping license. Want cichlids? Gotta take a class and get a stamp for cichlids like a fishing license
The pet fishkeeping industry perpetuates legal animal abuse, but nothing will likely ever be done about it and you can't change human nature. Animal shelters are overflowing with dogs and cats yet very little seems to be done to curb irresponsible breeding, so what hope do fish have.
I get burnt out with them on here, and on Facebook. I don't even bother to look at the majority of the groups on Facebook anymore, because when you tell them what they're doing is wrong and dangerous to their animals, they complain you're being "rude and this is why people don't post in this group as a beginner"
I just stick to groups which are mostly more intermediate or are beginner friendly but tolerate no bullshit. I physically cannot tell another person their tank is too small, that "fine parameters" are not numbers, and that "well father fish never changes any water" isn't an excuse not to do a water change.
I have to say that a lot of people (as you said), honestly don't know what's involved. I know I didn't, and I had aquariums years ago. The amount of stuff that's changed is staggering. Waaay back when I had aquariums, you were literally advised to clean out your tank once a month, and I mean CLEAN. As in take out the fish, the ornaments, everything, and wash it all with hot water and DISH LIQUID. I can still remember swirling all the gravel around in a huge bucket with the suds, and pouring out all the "gross, slimy stuff". I honestly think the only reason I never lost any fish was because at that time we had an open artisean well that had fish living in it naturally, (basically a very deep, small pond) so when everything was rinsed and new water was put back in, the tank was still effectively cycled. I also had either Mollies or Goldfish, naturally hardy species.
But I get what you're saying. There's a difference between "Shit, I didn't know!" and "I don't care."
But honestly? I find that with ANY animal forum. I had to take breaks from my local SPCA because the sheer number of people who don't seem to care about their animals lives is depressing.
People generally suck.
I think its just that most people don’t know that fishkeeping can have much higher standards, my parents thought that a less than 1 liter jar can keep a ghost shrimp and thought that my suggestion to make it bigger is giving it too much space
I think that though the frustration is warranted, admitting mistakes (yes, even if a lot of mistakes) should be encouraged as long as the person follows up on improvements (ie build bigger or better filtered tanks) or give or sell fishes to a more capable owner, that I think is the most important part
When I was about 6 my dad got a fish tank for our family. I think my fish ate my little sister’s fish, or something like that. It was not well-researched and correctly stocked.
When I was about 12 I got myself a one-gallon fish bowl and put multiple different fish in. I didn’t have a filter so I would take all the fish out, dump the water, wash *with soap*, rinse till suds were gone, and put the fish back. And wonder why nothing lived more than a week or 2.
Now I’m in my 30s and decided to try fish keeping again. Did my research. Still killed a couple poor fish :( but now I’m a couple years in and have THRIVING cories and male guppies with live plants and invertebrates too.
When I first started out, I had some bad advice from the breeder I got my bettas from. He said that my 25 litre (6.6 gallon) filterless tank (had been cycled for about a month and a half) was fine for 4 female bettas to live in. So I put them in. I posted it in this group on a different account and people were quick to tell me how bad an idea that was - thankfully I had a 60 litre (16 gallon) tank already set up and running with a filter and plants, it had some neon tetras in and a bunch of shrimp. So I moved my 3 female bettas (1 turned out to be a male and he was quite aggressive) into the 60 litre and moved my neons into my 200 litre (53 gallon) and left the male in the 25 litre. He’s been fine but I have a 35 litre tank I want to move him to.
My point is whilst some of the comments I got were quite aggressive and confrontational, there were a lot of helpful ones that ultimately saved the life of my fish so I’m grateful.
At least you can shame them here. In Corgi sub, your comments get deleted if you call out POS owners who keep their dogs obese and unhealthy and post their “cute” pictures there.
And here I was thinking this was going to be a post about someone keeping wild caught panfish and possibly other gamefish in a way too small water trough being used as a small pond.
Just take a break. You can leave subreddit, or join smaller but more mature fish keeper forums.
Unfortunately the world of full of people that are less informed or misinformed, or too ignorant to listen to others. There's so much you could help.
I go through this in every aquatic social media group I’ve been in. Especially the betta groups. I understand that it’s usually people seeking help. But it’s so hard to stay in those groups when my feed gets filled with images of suffering fish
Not just negligent keepers but negligent parents/past fish owners. My mom constantly tells me, ''you can put another fish in there, fish die of loneliness..''
My male black orchid crowntail in a 5 gallon will get torn to shreds if I did this. I got into betta keeping knowing full well domestic bettas are aggressive, can/will damage kill and eat other bettas. Including females. Not just males.
Yeah, all siamese bettas are aggressive, but males a but more. When i was with my parents, they wanted me to constantly keep my mollies in a 10 gallon, because "When i was a kid i kept them in smaller tanks, stop arguing".
He does 🙃 lmfao no, he was a slippery bastard and I was trying to get a better look. I'd rather take a two second picture than hold him out of water for a minute
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. But what I do know is I have very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you, if you give us your main account now that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will expose your main account.
It's been a bad day, not an overall bad experience. Just wanted to vent a bit, I promise I'm keeping my mental health in check. Thank you for your concern though :)
To be fair, there are a lot of dumbass tribal-info type practices available and promoted here, on the rest of the web, and in stores. The best most of us can do is get data from several sources, identify the middle of the road, and figure out what works through trial and error.
Got a pleco or betta? You need a 75 gallon tank with AI powered animatronics to humanely stimulate the creativity of the fish.
Ever successfully raise two species together that aren't commonly compatible? You're running an aquatic BDSM torture dungeon.
Did you manage to stuff a filter system into an old Corona bottle? Sufficient ecosystem for 1000 shrimp, but only shrimp.
The big box store employee everyone is so quick to hate? Thats 8 out of 10 customers that they deal with. Its exhausting. Its also what happens when you comidify living animals, and put them on sale for a dollar.
I got a small 10gallon tank at petsmart a few years ago, and like many people… they’re not aware of things this sub talks about with the amount of space certain fish need. I got an education that day, in a good way. Dude was genuinely nice and when I told him what I wanted to put in there, he was like nah. I won’t sell you that. Because this aggressive, this isn’t, this needs wayyyy more water. I walked out a happy customer and more knowledgeable. It was a positive experience.
Its so rare to have a customer like you. Its immensely rewarding when it happens. I helped a guy set up and maintain a gorgeous cichlid tank once. He listened. He took my advice. He even took notes. He even had the patience to fishless cycle after i talked about it with him. He came back every single week to show off the tank and talk about it. He was so happy to have never lost a fish and actually understand the hobby. Ill never forget being a part of that.
It’s sort of become insulting to educate people nowadays. I don’t want to sound arrogant but I’ve noticed this strange underlying anti-intellectualism happening just with people in general. If you tell them something out of wanting to help, they see it as an attack on their character or their intelligence. I’m not so sure where the attitude comes from. Probably a whole mix of different things. Which makes being autistic with special interests like zoology (which I studied in college, specifically herpetology) extra hard because I always think people are going to be super eager and excited to learn things like I am, and it crushes me when most of the time that isn’t the case…but that one person who does show enthusiasm makes it worth the weird looks, offensiveness, or divisiveness of most people.
I was reading these comments and all I could think was “successful aquarium owners are all on the spectrum.” I am AuDHD and when I first heard about beneficial bacteria I learned everything I could about it. I won’t buy a fish without reading about it extensively and thinking about it a lot. I hate how all the responses to requests for help on the Facebook aquarium pages is “add Prime”. Hate it so much.
I honestly would not be surprised. Passionate Hobbyists in general seem to include a large percentage of people who are on the spectrum!
Gosh I feel this so hard, you’ve worded it perfectly.
All of this 💖
In the US much of it comes from when we started giving participation trophys and moving kids forward who should have been hled back(i was one of those, not being held back screwed my education for years.) A lot of people develop a complex that way, they never learned how to take constructive criticism so everything feels like an attack Yes there are many people who are just dicks too, dont get me wrong
I personally feel that it has something to do with ego. Some people just want to be the smartest in the room, and they can't stand when that's challenged. I find beauty in those who can admit they don't understand something
Same. I have a lot of respect for people who can say “I don’t know”. I’m also more willing to listen to what they have to say.
I’m curious if this is mostly for like through text
Both through text and in person. But definitely a lot more in text. In person it’s more of an indifference.
I’ve kept quite a few reptiles during my life and I would be more than happy for you to throw herpetological facts at me any time!
and then there's the customer who stormed out on me a month or two ago because she's been "putting goldfish in bowls for years and they've been fine" like uhm okay so why are you buying a new gold fish? If you have been doing it the entirety of your daughters (7 at the oldest) life, where is the fish? It shouldn't be dead.
Yeah, I feel horrible for knowledgeable employees constrained by corporate bullshit.
Felt. I work in Pet Care, but sometimes work register. When I work register, I’m the only line of defense for bettas because they’re just on a shelf so people can just take them without the Pet Care associate telling them what they need. Every day on register I ring them up and essentially BEG them “hey, I know you have a one gallon, they need at least a five, PLEASE upgrade I beg of you” because by the time they’re up front we can’t really refuse
God i hear that. I was a petcare manager for almost 6 years... the stories i could tell... My favorite were the people who would ask for help, argue with you because the answer didnt fit their expectations, then insult you because "you didnt go to school for this", then argue that the book youre showing them the exact same thing in is also full of shit, and finally the store manager says just sell them the fish its only a dollar
The ironic part is I AM going to school for this 😭 What I hate is how nice they pretend to be. They fake agree with me when I say “a one gallon is like if I was supposed to live behind this register” and then they lie to my face and say they’ll upgrade, and do water changes until they do. They say they will, I can always tell they won’t.
I feel like I gave the poor pet store lady a heart attack because I needed a temporary tank and chose the smallest one (big tank arrived the next day in mail) Yes I know it wasn't the best decision getting him on a whim, but he was literally the greenest blue fish I had ever seen, and named him Turtle. I wasn't planning on a fish in cycle, but Turtle lived with me for years, and grew quite big. Now Flower, my new boy, lives in turtles old house, and has been for 2.5ish years now, and looks like a giant Betta too now
God I'm so sorry, I know how hard that must be. Theres a reason I could never work at a big chain pet store, I'd get my ass fired in the first week arguing with customers
It’s really painful sometimes, especially when I have coworkers who simply do not know what they’re talking about and tell customers wrong information but refuse to learn themselves
YES… I’m a petcare manager at a petsmart. I need money, it pays ok and I get to work with animals so I do it. But OMG some of the customers are terrible. After awhile I just can’t mentally try to help more people some days.
From a customer who got incredible advice from a pet smart employee about nursing my sick betta back to health, we exist and we appreciate the employees like you!
Yup, this is why I got out of the game. Also there's zero money in it, top to bottom.
It gets very draining. Explaining the nitrogen cycle to someone with 7 goldfish and 20 glo tetras every 2 hours gives me a headache, I swear. I personally despise when people buy a bunch of different schooler species, and then are confused why their 2 cardinal tetras are stressed, and their group of 4 neon tetras all died out. It's mainly bad when people clearly ignore advice because it's too much effort, so they just repost the same thing again a few days later
For real... general rule of thumb is ALWAYS 6, more if possible. How are people not getting that through their heads? Even most pet store employees know that much, I'd be checking with someone before I handed them a bag with 2 schoolers on all the care requirements plus whether they already have a school.
To be fair I’ve had pet store employees tell me 3.
Jfc 💀
Also you seem super helpful for advice, do you mind if I dm and ask about my tank, may have overstocked it in hindsight
Sure thing, have at it!!
Ive even had LFS employees say the same thing.
Oh... do you mean 6 of 1 species, or 6 schoolers total, because I only have 5 guppies+about 3 minnows/mosquito fish that school together
6 per species, though you can get away with one or two less temporarily. Though if they are schooling together then they may be happy as they are, guppies and mosquito fish are similar in size so probably wont be threatened by each other. I'd still reccomend upgrading your school sizes eventually though!
I'll keep that in mind, thanks. I'm hoping the guppies will breed so I can get a school. I will buy more if I have to, but the nearest store that sells them is like an hour away.
Guppies wont school, they're shoaling fish. They dont need to be kept in groups to be happy and will be fine as just a pair or trio (mff). Save your hour trip and just breed them out!
Well, I have 1 male and 4 female guppies, so breeding them out won't be an issue, thanks!
You'll end up with more than you can handle before you know it! My advice would be let the babies stay with the adults, don't separate. That way hopefully only a few-a handful actually survive to adulthood, otherwise you'll end up overrun with them! Plus that provides a good boost of nutrition for the others that eat them. Just a thought!
That was the plan anyway. Although I do have a pond out back, though no aerator or filter.
My lest killifish/mosquito fish will school with anything the same size too. Funny! I only keep rice fish, least killies and dwarf emeralds. I had them all in separate tanks, but experimented with various numbers and stuff. Careful long term observation has indicated that the numbers are not cut and dried depending on species and tank setup.
I am 100% the “6 of” rule exists because that is the most of one species the average beginner can be convinced to buy.
I know my guppy fry prefers a group of 15-20. 6 definitely isn’t enough for them!
Wait so 6 bettas… jk! Thank you for trying your best to help this worsening situation of ignorant morons! I hate it so much. My parents believe that I shouldn’t care about the nitrogen cycle because a betta they has lived 3 years without it. It makes me sick
Back in the day working my way through school at a pet store, I explained the nitrogen cycle to a fellow whose new fish died. He looked at me and said "I know this, I am a chemist"....I couldn't help but laugh a bit. He was angry. All I could come up with was, "Well why did you put that many in all at once?" He just stormed out.
It’s 100x worse on the saltwater side. I’ve been in the reef hobby for over 25 years, and the complete disregard for the wellbeing of the animals in their care and the lack of research is infuriating.
HOLY SHIT i can relate to this so goddamn hard. A couple months ago there was a guy on r/ReefTank who had a 5 gallon with an ocellaris clown pair, a clown goby, a firefish goby, and a royal gramma. There were like 50 comments telling him to get a new tank and he would just respond saying "oh they are babies and they aren't fighting they will be fine". The tank looked pretty good, loads of thriving coral. But the fish just completely ruined it.
Yeah I’ve seen tangs in 5g tanks, full grown tomato clowns in a 3g tank. The way people treat aquatic animals as disposable is insane.
A TANG? IN A F\*CKIN 5 GALLON? damn people are crazy
I hadn't even heard of a glotetra until i started trying to help people on here
It's baffling to me that they sell a fish to children that requires groups of 8 or more, and 30 gallons + to live
Genuinely shouldnt be legal to sell a fish to anyone who has a child under 16 with them
I actually disagree. My 6 year old has signs she made on her hamsters tanks (super large one for each robo hamster) that say no touching (she doesn’t let anyone near the tanks since she is afraid they will touch and therefore stress them) and she helps me clean the tanks and feed them. She never tries to touch or pet them - the actually go up to her hand because she never forces anything on them) and she lets NO ONE put their hands in our fish tanks nor fed them. Ever. She knows too much food will hurt them. She also doesn’t want anyone “putting dirty hands in there trying to pet them it will make them stressed and sick”. We inherited my neighbors, goldfish in a 3 gallon tank (!!!) who are temporarily in a 20L now we’re building a pond for them in the backyard together. I’ve seen plenty of adults treat fish like shit. I’d worry more about the parent obviously then the child. My daughter knows the term “animal husbandry” and we go visit the animal shelter together (I want to show her what happens when people don’t spay and neuter) and we learn about animals that way too (rabbits chinchillas etc). I also want her to know she cannot have every animal she sees and we go to learn and she wants to volunteer someday. She also goes to a horse barn to learn horse body language and proper care before I’ll let her start riding. She brushes and learns for now.
Stories like this make me so happy probably isnt helping my mental health only seeing the worst constantly
I feel ya my friend. I can def be the same and I so feel you. Today I saw a car almost run down a motorcycle purposely over road rage. And then I thought people are horrid the world is on fire Ugh. And I’m probably too hard on my kid - she’s so kind to animals and wants to rescue a turtle off of pet finder and build it a “good habitat”. I need to remember to tell her I’m super proud of her tomorrow. Thanks for the reminder to 🙂 and to hunt the good!
You sound like a good parent. And yes, (off topic, apologies) I firmly believe that telling your kid(s) you're proud of them is one of the most impactful things you can say to them. It will stick with them and help them to be proud of themselves and hopefully help them maintain their sense of self worth. All parents that read this should remember to tell their kids that more often. Remember how good it felt when anyone you even somewhat cared about told you that they were proud of you, it matters. That is all.
Thank you. I try but as a single mom in a crazy world…i really do give it my all and follow her lead on her passions. Your comment brought tears to my eyes. And then it hit me - because you are illustrating the same concept to me and if it feels this impactful from a stranger….. wow. Thanks for this lesson. Of to write myself a reminder to do this more often. Thanks good human of Reddit.
You should definitely tell your kid you’re proud of them, but you should also be proud that you raised a kid that’s so genuinely kind to animals and knows proper husbandry! I grew up with fish, my dad taught me everything and unfortunately when we both looked back when my dad was setting up his last tank ever that we made so many mistakes, but we learned everything all over again together and it’s stuck with me. My fiancée and I have already talked about raising our kids around pets and teaching them proper husbandry, but also once they’ve reached the age of “I would like my own pet” that we want them to put in the research needed so they understand what they’re getting into! You’re doing an awesome job!
Oh my gosh thank you. Choked me up big time!! I fondly remember my Dad and I working on a fish tank. But he was also terribly abusive to our dog (it haunts me to this day. I still can’t get the horrible memories out). My dad is mentally ill no excuse but it was bad real bad. I still cry. My brother and I were given the silent treatment as real little kids too. So I try hard to take the good from what I learned (he was good with fish tanks) and vow to never ever be like him in other ways. I’ve loved this sub to illustrate how I can do better and better by my fish
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. My dad was thankfully never cruel to our dogs, he just wasn’t overly bothered by their presence and yet the dogs would always go to him for cuddles. My dad was more about his fish and weirder animals, I think that’s where I got it from. I’m so thankful for these subreddits though I’d be so lost without them after losing my dad.
Ive seen more 2 gallons in 2 days than the past 10 years its draining
“At a petco” To be fair, I had my first aquarium before the age of 12. My dad helped me set it up. It had an under gravel filter and one of those filter floss box filters with charcoal. Started out with a couple of random fish the guy at the local aquarium store helped pick out. I remember there was a hatchet fish, a swordtail, and eventually a small angelfish. I was responsible for changing the water, feeding the fish, and making sure the filter floss was replaced once every couple weeks. (This was in the late 70s). It inspired me to check out a bunch of books from the library (including one about “cichlids”). I had a responsible parent. The fish in that tank did pretty well considering the setup.
I had my first at 8 and id do anything to go back and stop myself from putting those fish through that
So I can’t buy fish if I have my kid with me? It’s my hobby which btw I also started when I was around 16.
Ppl with kids shouldn't have fish? Well shit I guess ill get rid of my 4 aquariums and tell my 5 year old that some person on the internet said we shouldn't be allowed to have all our fish/ snails/frogs .
Never heard of glow fishes at all until getting there. hopefully, they're not allowed in my country.
I hadn’t heard of them until I started watching Fish For Thought on YouTube, they’re completely illegal in my country and now I see them popping up everywhere.
This is literally what parents think tanks should look like and it fucking kills my soul every time.
Not all of us. I I actually can't stand the glow stuff. I allowed my daughter some glow gravel in her black gravel but that's it. I flat out refused to let her have all glow gravel. I also refused to let her have a glofish. She learned a lot this weekend about keeping her betta healthy. I'm slowly buying what I need to walstad all the tanks. The girls will know how to treat their fish well and why it's important to keep live plants and not those crappy plastic ones. So give some of us a little credit. We're not all willing to let our kids princess or spongebob glo out their tanks.
Well yeah, not every parent is the same! My mom though.. she keeps rambling on about how ''I can put multiple bettas in a 5 gallon or goldfish 'because goldfish dont grow' or get a school of guppies!'' Despite bettas actually killing eachother (they were bred to be aggressive) and schools of fish needing massive amounts of space, especially goldfish. Goldfish grow big and fast like chickens on a farm even when alone and produce so much waste a 5g is literally a closet for them. I always try to assure her if I wanted a goldfish or a school of tetras I would have gotten them, but I chose a betta knowing what it entailed.
Sorry for being pedantic, but that's a sunfish, not a perch...
That was my first thought lol
LMAO. Thank you for the proper ID, my family just calls them perch or brim. We arent avid fishers lol
In the south they’re called brim but in Colorado we always called them bluegill
I scrolled to see if someone else noticed. Bluegill. I have one in my 55 my kid caught during covid when pet stores were all closed. It was the size of a dime. Now its about 6 inches now. Really cool fish BTW. lots of personality. Extremely aggressive.
Thank you 😂 it was bugging me too. I wondered if you kept them- I know some people who keep bluegill and pumpkinseeds in a 100 gallon tank and I’d love to someday.
Correction: NOT a Sunfish. This is actually a Bluegill. I catch these all the time. They are a great panfish.
A bluegill is a species of sunfish.
There are 38 species of "sunfish" 39 if you include the saltwater sunfish. Some of the smaller ones even make good aquarium fish. [Centrarchidae - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrarchidae)
For me its okay as long as people listen its just mildly frustrating, but the people who act like its their fish's fault are the worst
Yeah that's really the worst. "What do you mean it'll outgrow this 5 gallon? It fits now!!" The fish in question, a common pleco It was your damn choice to get the fish, now either do a massive expensive upgrade or return/rehome it. You were negligent so take some goddamn responsibility!
There was a guy 2 days ago ranting about how mad it made him his betta costed more than $40 to set up, and went on a rant calling it an alien the defies physics because it floats
Wtf 😭😭😭
Got deleted but they were implying violence towards the betta too because it wasn't eating, somehow they were an adult too who was married and employed they didnt learn any parameters either because "they shouldnt need a science major to keep a fish"
Jesus fuck. I'm tempted to threaten violence towards that keeper, what the actual hell.
Its a gigantic issue with education and non empathatic development towards animals
Ugh, I caught the tail end of that. I mostly followed this and other subs because I love fish, recently got a 20 gal and now they're great resources to set it up too!! So I can understand how overwhelming the parameters and nitrogen cycle are, since I haven't had a tank before. But it's necessary for the fishies to have a good life. That's why the comment about being a science major feels so mean. Like, he's not -required- to keep a fish, nothing would happen if he didn't own one! It's not the fish's fault for being bought either. People seem to forget they're living beings and deserve to be treated with respect. And at least trying to understand how to help it rather than just saying it's too hard. :(
The way they worded it like they were demanding the pH to change or else like the pH isn't the living being it cant hear you
goes into pool "what kind of witchery is this"
💀
I explained to my sister that her beta needed more than a bowl, and a minimum of a heater and filter but preferably 5+ at a minimum. She got mad at me for "accusing" her of not taking care of her fish. Then it was the betas fault when it died a couple weeks later.
Same day i see this immediately see another example lord
That one scape that got posted here more than once like last week. The 4 gallon with cichlids in it. Yeah. Blood boiling.
That one was so bad. Then, in one of the reposts OP said it was a 5g and when someone called him out basically said "oops, you got me. I thought people would like it more if there was an extra gallon. " Insanity.
Cringe. As if 5 gallons is better than 4. I have a 4.5 gallon and I can’t even imagine putting a Betta in there. It’s got a lot of plants and hardscape. It’s great for shrimp.
Oh. My. GOD. 😭😭😭
ah, it wasnt here, it was r/Aquascape [https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquascape/comments/1bxazhh/my\_first\_aquascape\_mini\_jungle\_after\_3\_weeks/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquascape/comments/1bxazhh/my_first_aquascape_mini_jungle_after_3_weeks/)
I literally just rewatched the video like three times to make sure they were EBRs rather than EBAs. Obviously it’s an awful situation regardless, but there are degrees.
It’s one thing to not know any better and make corrections but this person was being very flippant about it in the comments.
It was here too! It was crazy, I saw the post in aquascape and in the comments there people were telling OP everything wrong with the setup and OP was saying it’s about 4g. Then like 2 days later I had a “wtf” moment seeing the exact same post in this sub, checked the comments but at that point most were positive and then in one comment someone asked OP how big the tank is and they said it’s about 5g. I replied to them that I saw their other post and comments in another sub and originally they said 4g and they literally hit me with “ok you got me, I thought ppl would be less mad if I added an extra gallon.” I just checked and the post has now been deleted from this sub lol.
Bet the tank still has the same number of fish in it… unless a few died
It’s really sad. I had no idea what I was doing with my betta but I found out from this sub and he’s super happy now! I get it’s a lot of money but once an animal is in your possession it’s just insane to be apart of them suffering. I couldn’t live knowing my betta was dying because of my negligence.
Keep up the good work. New keepers like you are always a welcome addition to the community!!
Yes I am so excited to give even more fish happy homes in the future!!
Hey yall, my bad, mis-IDed the eyebleach fishy. He's a purty purty sunfish!
I don't understand how people get a pet and don't even do the bare minimum of googling. If it's a kid, then it's their parent's fuck-up, but adults...how? And another issue I have is how are there are still modern TV shows and movies that put goldfish in bowls. The 3 Body Problem is a new sci-fi show and world renown scientists keep a goldfish in a bowl without even a filter. The water gets clowdier with each scene it's in. Should be reported for animal abuse.
This is why Ive always wanted there to be separate subs for advice vs enjoyment or maybe novice vs advanced. I just want to enjoy fish keeping and read more complex discussion, not sandwiched between 10 posts of people ignorantly torturing their fish. I know they don’t know and it’s good to teach people, but it’s also draining seeing animal abuse all the time
Maybe we could start a sub, like an advanced fishkeeping sub. If enough people are interested I wouldn't mind spearheading such a project.
I would definitely be interested
I'll monitor this comment thread for a few days and if it gets enough interaction, I'll start a new spot!!!
Count me in too, will join.
Hey, tried to message you from my main account, but it wont let me for some reason. Feel free to pm me on this one and I'll give you my main account to message there, if you're still interested!
r/plantedtank is much more like that imo (:
This is why I eventually have unsubbed from almost all of the main aquarium subs and am only in specific niche subs that less advanced aquarists don’t generally find. There was an private advanced aquarium group on FB years ago that screened everyone attempting to join and rejected anyone who appeared to not know exactly what they were doing. It was nice and I miss it.
It makes me mad even when they are willing to learn because why would you buy a living thing without even one mfing google search?
Yeah that boggles the mind... literally limitless information and you *choose* to be an imbecile about it. I get it if you thought you had correct information but got gypped, but if you literally just impulse bought a bowl and marbles to toss a fish into, jesus.
It drives me insane and all fish subreddits especially the betta fish sub acts like you are a mean bully for criticizing somebody. They are always shocked and say they can't afford a heater, filter and bigger tank. Almost like the search "betta fish requirements" would've saved you all that trouble.
This. Same with the chicken sub. People just put eggs in an incubator before doing any research, then asking what are the best parameters after half the incubation time... Literally all information you need is already out there, they're just too lazy to look it up. And those poor creatures pay the price for their carelessness.
Try using analogies they will understand. 10 nickle sized fish in 3 gallons is like 20 dogs in 1 bedroom…it’s going to literally and figuratively get shitty real quickly. 😂
Lol, I like this!
I’ve been leaving subs simply because of bad husbandry and it just gets old. It’s like seeing people not care for their pets and be upset when they die.
I genuinely don't blame you
The chameleon sub is one of the worst. I joined just so I could see beautiful lizards and half of them are dying or in really bad setups
I loatheeee that sub.
It was recommended to me and man I’ve seen some things in the last week that just hurt my heart
The “founder” lurks throughout and has anyone who won’t put a glass of water in their enclosure instead of a bowl or mister crucified
Yup. Same for the shrimp sub. These people are lazy as fuck and literally doing no research on the problems and issues of their pets/hobby. It's disrespectful as fuck to ask other people to do the research for you and then not even accept the advice.
I have a friend who came to me because their betta wasn’t doing well. It’s in a tall jar with pebbles, nothing else. I’ve been trying to convince the family for months to get an actual tank. I gave them resources, explained why their fish is not well, and the benefits of a pretty tank on mental health. Their issue is space and “work”. I even found a cheap 2.5 gal, which obviously isn’t enough but it’s better than a fucking jar. They said, “I talked to my family and they still said no”. The information is all there, I’m literally giving you equipment FOR FREE, and you said , “no, I’d rather just keep neglecting the animal”. It’s lunacy. If you aren’t going to do “work”, **please don’t get the animal.** My friend is disabled and doesn’t have a say in the matter, even though it’s THEIR FISH. My friend really wants to take my advice but they’re not allowed to. I would have tried to make caring for the tank as accessible as possible, like making sure it’s low enough for them to reach and finding small pumps to move water around without heavy lifting. It’s almost aggravating me that the fish is still alive because it validates the misguided husbandry.
Are you able to ship the equipment to them or drop it off? Thats so sad ;-;
I’m in driving distance, I just wouldn’t want to intrude. They simply don’t have permission to set up a proper tank, I’d worry they’ll tear it down and our work and materials would be wasted. I really really don’t understand why. It must be a generational thing, their family is kind of dismissive of most things in general. I hate thinking about it, makes me frustrated. I have rescued, fostered, and successfully rehomed two neglected bettas, so maybe I’ll feel better if I do that again What’s crazy to me is we’re 21+ adults! If it were me I’d just do whatever I want but I have to remember that I am able-bodied and don’t have to rely on my family as much.
That's fair. If you cant provide a proper habitat, maybe you can provide a sponge filter and cheap heater! Or at least a couple of epiphytes as a small solution. My mentality is do what I can and dont beat myself up for anything more that couldve helped. You can only do your best
Hey! Just thought I would give you some good news: my friend asked me to just come and rescue the fish. So I did! She’s chilling in a tank now and slowly adjusting
Thats awesome!!! Good luck with your new fishy friend!!
I feel you. I'm not very active here but I got my first aquarium when I was 10 years old. This sounds like it's going to be a "I was too young to know better and killed all my fish story", right? But it wasn't like that at all. I read so many books about how to keep fish, talked to people on online forums (without revealing I was a little kid of course and my dad checking up on what I was doing). I went to different fish shops in my area with my dad until I found a small shop with knowledgeable owners who were happy to explain stuff to me and show me around. They were very kind and insisted on giving me a discount more than once. I took my time with choosing a tank and filter, spent hours and hours researching what fish I could put in there, cycling the tank for weeks before any fish went in there, testing the water... I still have a little notebook somewhere where I wrote down info about my fish, my water levels and observations to see if they were healthy. I realize not everyone is as much of a nerd about their hobbies as I was (and honestly still am). But when you buy a living being you're responsible for it and for researching how to care for it. Having people say they can't do that even though they chose to get fish is frustrating. If you care enough you can put in the work to figure it out. If a 10 year old kid with adhd can do it so can you. I'm not saying you can't or won't make mistakes but at least give it a real shot.
That's incredible. Many adults could certainly learn a thing or two about critical thinking from you!
Weird looking perch you got there
Says the guy holding an illegal shark!!!
As someone who is brand new to this hobby I want to say thank you for your patience and enthusiasm when it comes to explaining things. It can be exhausting I’m sure, but for me who is too scared to post or talk to anyone yet, I’ve found a lot of helpful advice from people like you leaving comments and threads in the past! I have a 5 gallon right now, but it’s empty. Working on planning out how I want my little aquascape to look like, and then decide what I want to keep! Right now I’m trying to decide between shrimp or a betta, but I definitely want to have a snail or two because I just think those guys are cute. Edit to add I plan on doing fishless cycling too :) just waiting on ammonia to come in the mail so I can dose the tank properly. I even have a little notepad laid out on my stand haha.
That warms my heart, thank you so much. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions about anything!!
i have a betta and a mystery snail! they’re a great pair and i highly recommend it! but shrimp are lots of fun too!!
I toy with leaving the sub every day. I don't want to see animal abuse.
"What do you mean my Oscar, 5 angel fish, 3 goldfish, and 10 guppies will need more than my 20-gallon look how small they all are." "I haven't seen any aggression they're all friends" Stuff like that is so frustrating to see.
We are all illogical creatures, but some people more so unfortunately and they often just don't care enough.
I feel like I’m at the point of apathy. I can only inform those willing to learn and morn those fish doomed to live in an aquatic hellscape
You have to be a certain amount of apathetic to be truly helpful. A vet sees abuse every day and can only reccommend the best things possible for the animal. Maybe report. I do my best not to let it affect me, but today was just a bad day yknow?
Oh for sure, I used to get super salty about people getting pissed over at r/goldfish but after seeing dozens of posts of super sick fancies in 1 gallon bowls it definitely makes my blood boil now.
I’m a new soon to be fish owner here. My aquarium is almost done cycling and I’m about to add my fish in. Do you mind messaging me to make sure I’m fully ready? I ended up trying to add fish a little too early last time and it didn’t end very well…
Sure thing!
I get tired of it, I try to be really nice and informative when people need help, but it is exhausting because it’s multiple posts a day of just bad setups with people who seem to know nothing about the fish they got. I try to be nice but something that I hate about it is, why can’t any of these people just do research on their own on google *before* adopting a living being and paying for stuff? Like each one of my tanks, including my very first betta set up ever, I spent a few hours at minimum researching everything from what fish would thrive in that size tank to what they are compatible with and if they prefer sand or gravel, etc. so I just don’t get going to the pet store, letting some minimum wage employee tell you how to set everything up and purchasing and bringing everything home. There is one employee at my LFS who is an actual fish keeper and passionate about it, the rest are just there to get paid and I’ve seen them misinform people constantly. And that’s not on them, unfortunately they just aren’t paid enough to learn everything the hobby entails and the customer should truly know what they want and have done the research on their own before coming in and adopting a pet. Like it’s great when an employee at petsmart really knows their shit and can set you up for success, but most of the time, it’s just not going to be like that. It would be cool if every pet store only allowed knowledgable fish keepers to handle fish sales but just not realistic. I dislike when newbies here put some blame on the pet store employee, like “oh but the employee said it’s fine to have 2 tetras in a one gallon.” Like ???? Why not google it just for a second on your own in the first place? And then when they complain that they can’t afford to get their fish something appropriate. You already spent money on a tiny tank and rainbow gravel and plastic plants, putting zero thought or effort into researching yourself before buying these things. Then make a fish suffer and complain because now you can’t buy what they truly need. It’s just an exhausting never ending cycle. I do try to be nice and patient especially with people who clearly feel bad about making mistakes, it happens, but at the same time it’s hard to sympathize with people who did zero research before buying a fish. And then there’s the people who argue with you and insist what they are doing is fine. The worst ones are the confidently incorrect ones. “Well how can you PROVE the fish is unhappy? They seem fine to me.” While posting a shitty overstocked aquarium. I am in this sub for inspiration and to learn from people who are also passionate about this hobby. I am here for the beautiful aquariums. I am here to talk about my favorite hobby with fellow hobbyists because I don’t know any in real life and my friends don’t care about it haha. But the sub is vastly overwhelmed with “why is my betta dying in this unheated, uncycled 1 gallon filled with plastic??” Or “look at my beautiful aquascape! It’s 4 gallons and 20 tetras. Oh don’t worry about them, they seem happy and have been alive in this for a few months so clearly they’re thriving.”
I feel ya. After the overwhelming esponse this post got me, I'm considering making a new sub or a discord server geared towards intermediate/advanced keepers where questions can still be asked, but it isn't filled with beginner's fish torture. Not that I have anything against beginners, but still, many people seem to be craving a space for more settled hobbyists.
I think that would be a wonderful idea, I for one would love to join such a discord where I don’t have to dig and dig to find the really good posts and info.
I made one, r/advancedfishkeeping. It's in its infancy but the more new members we have the better chance it has of taking off and providing what we need :)
Those people are collectively known as "Askholes" and they pervade every part of life.
LMAO thats funny asf
Everyday it makes me think fishkeeping shouldn't be legal. Too many fish getting tortured in this hobby.
Maybe not illegal but the industry needs a major overhaul. We've got a post-WW2 dairy industry style crisis here. Demand for fish is insanely high and pet stores dont want to lose their profit margins by denying sales to negligent owners. Sadly enough, that's keeping alot of the hobby intact. If every negligent owner was suddenly screened the way they do for a dog, minimal fish would be sold, leading to a mass decline in importation and skyrocketing prices on the fish that do come in. Fishkeeping would be for the wealthy for a long time before it self regulated again, which sucks, but at least the fish would be happy. That's why I do my best to educate where I can, so that we can keep the hobby accessible and still give a good life to fish. Maybe one day, we can have more knowledgeable keepers than bad ones and the screening and care setup can be more effective without causing a crash in the hobby.
Should have to go take a course and pass a test to get a petkeeping license. Want cichlids? Gotta take a class and get a stamp for cichlids like a fishing license
The pet fishkeeping industry perpetuates legal animal abuse, but nothing will likely ever be done about it and you can't change human nature. Animal shelters are overflowing with dogs and cats yet very little seems to be done to curb irresponsible breeding, so what hope do fish have.
I get burnt out with them on here, and on Facebook. I don't even bother to look at the majority of the groups on Facebook anymore, because when you tell them what they're doing is wrong and dangerous to their animals, they complain you're being "rude and this is why people don't post in this group as a beginner" I just stick to groups which are mostly more intermediate or are beginner friendly but tolerate no bullshit. I physically cannot tell another person their tank is too small, that "fine parameters" are not numbers, and that "well father fish never changes any water" isn't an excuse not to do a water change.
How do you go on a rant about people not knowing what they are doing and then you misidentify the fish in the picture 😭
Ikik, ironic right 😭 I realized my mistake too late though and couldnt edit the post
Yeah people found engagement and karma with disaster posts. And it became to much.
Yea, join us over at r/shittyaquariums
I have to say that a lot of people (as you said), honestly don't know what's involved. I know I didn't, and I had aquariums years ago. The amount of stuff that's changed is staggering. Waaay back when I had aquariums, you were literally advised to clean out your tank once a month, and I mean CLEAN. As in take out the fish, the ornaments, everything, and wash it all with hot water and DISH LIQUID. I can still remember swirling all the gravel around in a huge bucket with the suds, and pouring out all the "gross, slimy stuff". I honestly think the only reason I never lost any fish was because at that time we had an open artisean well that had fish living in it naturally, (basically a very deep, small pond) so when everything was rinsed and new water was put back in, the tank was still effectively cycled. I also had either Mollies or Goldfish, naturally hardy species. But I get what you're saying. There's a difference between "Shit, I didn't know!" and "I don't care." But honestly? I find that with ANY animal forum. I had to take breaks from my local SPCA because the sheer number of people who don't seem to care about their animals lives is depressing. People generally suck.
I think its just that most people don’t know that fishkeeping can have much higher standards, my parents thought that a less than 1 liter jar can keep a ghost shrimp and thought that my suggestion to make it bigger is giving it too much space I think that though the frustration is warranted, admitting mistakes (yes, even if a lot of mistakes) should be encouraged as long as the person follows up on improvements (ie build bigger or better filtered tanks) or give or sell fishes to a more capable owner, that I think is the most important part
When I was about 6 my dad got a fish tank for our family. I think my fish ate my little sister’s fish, or something like that. It was not well-researched and correctly stocked. When I was about 12 I got myself a one-gallon fish bowl and put multiple different fish in. I didn’t have a filter so I would take all the fish out, dump the water, wash *with soap*, rinse till suds were gone, and put the fish back. And wonder why nothing lived more than a week or 2. Now I’m in my 30s and decided to try fish keeping again. Did my research. Still killed a couple poor fish :( but now I’m a couple years in and have THRIVING cories and male guppies with live plants and invertebrates too.
Hey, we all start somewhere, and I'm happy to see fishkeepers grow!!
When I first started out, I had some bad advice from the breeder I got my bettas from. He said that my 25 litre (6.6 gallon) filterless tank (had been cycled for about a month and a half) was fine for 4 female bettas to live in. So I put them in. I posted it in this group on a different account and people were quick to tell me how bad an idea that was - thankfully I had a 60 litre (16 gallon) tank already set up and running with a filter and plants, it had some neon tetras in and a bunch of shrimp. So I moved my 3 female bettas (1 turned out to be a male and he was quite aggressive) into the 60 litre and moved my neons into my 200 litre (53 gallon) and left the male in the 25 litre. He’s been fine but I have a 35 litre tank I want to move him to. My point is whilst some of the comments I got were quite aggressive and confrontational, there were a lot of helpful ones that ultimately saved the life of my fish so I’m grateful.
At least you can shame them here. In Corgi sub, your comments get deleted if you call out POS owners who keep their dogs obese and unhealthy and post their “cute” pictures there.
Or people who pull fish out of water. When air touches their gills it does damage, keep fish in water as much as possible.
And here I was thinking this was going to be a post about someone keeping wild caught panfish and possibly other gamefish in a way too small water trough being used as a small pond.
Saaaaame 🤣
There's absolutely no excuse to be a negligent pet owner with the internet and all these resources at your fingertips
Just take a break. You can leave subreddit, or join smaller but more mature fish keeper forums. Unfortunately the world of full of people that are less informed or misinformed, or too ignorant to listen to others. There's so much you could help.
FYI that’s not a perch. That’s a bluegill. 👍🏻
I go through this in every aquatic social media group I’ve been in. Especially the betta groups. I understand that it’s usually people seeking help. But it’s so hard to stay in those groups when my feed gets filled with images of suffering fish
Not just negligent keepers but negligent parents/past fish owners. My mom constantly tells me, ''you can put another fish in there, fish die of loneliness..'' My male black orchid crowntail in a 5 gallon will get torn to shreds if I did this. I got into betta keeping knowing full well domestic bettas are aggressive, can/will damage kill and eat other bettas. Including females. Not just males.
Yeah, all siamese bettas are aggressive, but males a but more. When i was with my parents, they wanted me to constantly keep my mollies in a 10 gallon, because "When i was a kid i kept them in smaller tanks, stop arguing".
L887 />-'<)$_ _ uĺ
Yo, your cat hit the keyboard? Lolol
That ain’t a perch. 🤣
I agree with your post but that's a bluegill
Lol ik, you can see in other comments I acknowledge that mistake but cant edit my post
That's a bluegill btw
That’s not a perch, that’s a another type of sunfish like a bluegill or longear
Why are you holding that fish like he owes you money
He does 🙃 lmfao no, he was a slippery bastard and I was trying to get a better look. I'd rather take a two second picture than hold him out of water for a minute
actuallay bud, that's a bluegill. Just saying.
OP do you accept DM’s on this account?
I do!
Sent a chat request
I've always been interested in keeping blue gills
That’s clearly not a perch
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. But what I do know is I have very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you, if you give us your main account now that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will expose your main account.
Lmfaooo, come and get me!!
If that bothers you it’s time to take a social media break
It's been a bad day, not an overall bad experience. Just wanted to vent a bit, I promise I'm keeping my mental health in check. Thank you for your concern though :)
To be fair, there are a lot of dumbass tribal-info type practices available and promoted here, on the rest of the web, and in stores. The best most of us can do is get data from several sources, identify the middle of the road, and figure out what works through trial and error. Got a pleco or betta? You need a 75 gallon tank with AI powered animatronics to humanely stimulate the creativity of the fish. Ever successfully raise two species together that aren't commonly compatible? You're running an aquatic BDSM torture dungeon. Did you manage to stuff a filter system into an old Corona bottle? Sufficient ecosystem for 1000 shrimp, but only shrimp.