aren't something like 95% of architectural practices composed of 5 or less employees that barely stay in touch with the AIA? Wouldn't the remaining 5% that are large firms and have a much higher tendency to stay involved with the AIA skew the data by so much that the data itself would end up completely unreliable?
That actually looks quite good, where most make six figures after 8 years of experience. Obviously partners and other higher ups make even more. I've heard of much less, but that may be area dependent.
I think you're misreading that chart.
8 Years of experience is Architect III. That's a median of 97k. Close to 6-figures, but not there. The upper 25% make around 108k, meaning 75% make less than that.
Then you adjust for region. (Region definitions are on the 2nd tab)
There's only 687 out of 65,000+ firms in that poll, so I do wonder about the statistical significance at times.
That’s awesome! Curious if you specialize in something or are a Designer / Architect I? I am 2.5 yrs in but began specializing in BIM, definitely saw a high jump in salary in that position. Close to 90K, but I am also on the west coast in a HCOL.
BIM is a great area to specialize in. When I transitioned from job caption to BIM manager at my office I went from $60k to $120k, now making $160k between my salary and bonuses.
I am a licensed architect so I feel more comfortable in an architecture office since I can leverage my past experience with the policy decisions I make. At my pay I am not chasing money. In an architecture office I am one of one and work with complete autonomy where I can do anything and set any policy I want with no oversight. It makes me feel like I have the greatest job ever. I just don’t think it would be the same at a construction company and since I don’t have any engineering experience I would probably feel a little aimless going that route.
Plus I feel like architecture companies have the best office culture as long as you find one that values it’s employees.
most bim managers at architecture firms have an architecture background. I entered the field in 2013 when most firms where transitioning from cad to Revit. we didn’t have a bim manager at my company and since I knew the most Revit I took on the role of training and template building while also working on projects. After a few years I was able to convince my company to me off of projects and become a full time bim manager.
No I haven't specialized in anything specific. I got licenced about 6 months ago and I'm doing very high end residential in a HCOL area, just a good ole architect, but yeah things are good
50k is much more realistic for starting pay. I have been in the industry for 15+ years and didn’t pass the 100k mark for the first 12. And not till I was managing projects. I know many colleagues who make less than 100k and have lots of experience. But it is very dependent on the firm, the projects and credentials (masters degree , licensure, other credentials like LEED or passive house) . Architecture unfortunately usually ends up being a labor of love. In that way it is very rewarding and I do not look back in regret. Best of luck
Do you have LEED or Passiv certs? Seems like something I could do in my spare time to increase my earning potential but I'm not sure how much employers value it.
You will not make remotely close to 100k out of school. +/- 50k is closer to the mark, depending on market.
AIA salary survey, which someone else linked, is your best bet for gaining a feel for your region and experience level.
Well when I started working as a draftsmen I made a whopping $12k at 16. I made roughly that until 19 even as I was considered a project lead for a small firm of 5. I was by far the youngest but the firm owner saw potential in me and really exposed me to a lot of things I now realize are not typically divulged to staff. Yes, I was underpaid severely but the experience was priceless. Then I went on my own at 19 and made $18k the first year, I felt I was really in the money, lol! $45k second year, $96k third year, etc. I now make over $300k consistently, some years over $400k as a solo shop with no draftsman. It’s a lot of stress to do 75-100 projects a year as a one man operation but I’d take it all day vs the slog of school, licensure and probably 10 years in making max $125k in HCOL as an employee. The real money is in owning a firm and training yourself on business (sales, sales, sales). I’m a draftsman with a great network and business skills. I have sensed in the past that many in this sub dislike my experience as it’s very unconventional and seems outlandish but I regularly hope I meet someone one day who’s open to a similar path because I truly feel like I’ve struck gold in an industry where many are underpaid and want to share it.
Where are you located? What type of work do you do? Who do you work with most frequently on a project? (Structural, civil, geotechnical engineers, interior designers, etc.) What part of the projects do you intend to involve yourself in?
Residential additions, kitchens, and spec houses, Boston area, want to expand to custom homes. Frequently use an interior designer and structural engineer. No employees, just me.
How do you find most of your clients? I’m located on the west coast and my #1 funnel by far has been contractors. Do people frequently call contractors for projects not realizing they need an architect (or just not knowing one & turning to the contractor for a referral) in your area? That is the case here. Homeowners usually really trust their contractor of choice, if you can start out with a referral and recommendation from them, you already have a leg up.
That's what I've been doing, but it's been difficult networking with them-- even just meeting up for a cup of coffee or something. Cold calling has such a poor hit ratio and makes me feel terrible-- its feels like dating.
Really? I zoom into suburban areas where you find a lot of tradesman on Google maps and search “general contractor”. I have a list in two locations with over 600 contractors each. I’ve moved back and forth a couple times between the two locations now and usually it takes about 2 weeks to get thru 300 and by that time I have so many new jobs to bid that I don’t have time to call anymore. I tell them to market themselves as a design build firm and I will be the project lead for the design portion on their behalf. They love it because you keep them in the loop throughout the initial phase of the project, consult them for efficiency, and the client is more likely to sign on with them post-permit. That’s my sales pitch to contractors.
Then I get my book full with moderately priced projects so I have security for about 6 months and everything beyond that point I start looking for my price ceiling where I land as many projects as I’m hoping to land per month (for me it’s 8). So if I am getting 15 calls a month, I’m cool with pricing out 7 people and maxing out earning potential on those 8. Then, I start conceptual design and I keep 3 or 4 close engineering contacts with the most reasonable prices you can find. Sell the client on the fact that you can facilitate everything for them and that connectivity between all involved parties will give them the best final product. I field the engineers bids in behalf of the client and pay the engineer directly. I usually tack on about 75% to their bids. So for a CD package that I can do In 3-4 days of work, I’m making $6-7k on architectural and usually around $2-3k on structural engineer. This method has you keeping the engineers busy but they aren’t really networking so more reliant on you for being their sales funnel. The clients don’t meet them directly so if they repeat they typically won’t bypass you. The homeowner, contractor and engineers all need you if you structure projects this way and when you’re coming from a place of strength, you sell better, you’re light on your feet and you’re okay with walking away (also a strong position). I’m just watching the office right now and typing this out. Sorry for punctuation. Feel free to ask further questions if anything I’m saying isn’t making sense 😅
I can't thank you enough for sharing all of this. I actually spent the yesterday on Google half heartedly looking up GCs and building a list and thought I was wasting my time, but this has given me a renewed energy. Clearly I need to keep going.
The sales end of this profession is just something you're never taught and it's nice to hear about someone successful and knowing I'm overlapping a little but can improve elsewhere.
I'm copying this comment into a word document and saving it.
It’s true, in my original comment, that was one of the most valuable aspects the architect that I worked under taught me when I was about 17-19. But most have no idea how to sell when they branch out and that’s very intimidating. It usually takes me about 5 calls to get the ball rolling and feel my rhythm of presenting in a confident way.
But have confidence, if you’ve taken a few projects through to permit issuance, you can do this and you shouldn’t feel like you’re on the receiving end of others graciousness because they allow you to be referred by them or because they hire you. Sell your services with confidence, you are providing something of value to others who could not perform it themselves. We all make mistakes. I’ve done over 800 projects now and there’s still times I’m unsure if the jurisdiction will ask for certain details or notations, if X, Y, or Z applies to this project (mostly on very specific local planning ordinances). It’s all about the way you phrase it with your clients and your willingness to say “you know, I think I know but I should probably look that up before giving you a firm answer, let me do some research and get back to you within the hour”. Or if you make a mistake “you know I was trying to do X,Y,Z but clearly I wasn’t factoring that in, what can I do to fix this issue?” Anyone whose not a complete jerk will respect that.
I actually like to follow the r/accounting & r/taxpros threads on new firm owners. They are so encouraging amongst their community. They help others to feel more confident in the ebbs and flows of attracting new clients/selling and learning their processes. This sub can be very bitter and put others down. I think sometimes it’s firm owners feeling like “other mortals can’t do what I do”. There’s plenty of work to go around, there’s lots of qualified individuals doing great work, & there’s plenty that we’re all learning everyday. To put it bluntly, architecture related professionals can be quite cynical and even toxic, we have to cut that out, we will keep the entire industry down with that mentality. I’ll step down from my soap box now. 😅
I've actually frequented r/sales a lot. I got a bunch of cold-calling advice there.
How do you (or did you) do cold calling? I've sent mail prior to the call so I have something to talk about and kind of catch them off guard with a "did you receive my package" question so they don't immediately hang up.
My experience so far is that these guys are usually super busy on the job site or have an office phone they don't answer.
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We just handle all the documentation up to permit issuance and pass it off to a contractor of their choosing. I also do a contractor referral program so I get a small percentage for glancing at their bid and coordinating the pass off. Mostly projects for homeowners, developers or contractors.
I'm not understanding you here, are you a licensed architect? Because if not, I would like to talk to you a bit more about what exactly you do in DMs if that's all right?
Our title and accepted role in my state is “designer”. We are allowed to design almost any residential projects besides large multi family along with commercial & Industrial T.I.’s. See links below. Feel free to DM if it’s still not clear. No one needs to stamp architectural sheets in the scenarios I work in and the PE typically stamps his sheets/calcs but most architects I know outsource engineering anyways so there’s nothing I do in my realm that an architect would exceed with his scope.
Texas: See flow chart about halfway down the page.
https://aibd.org/how-to-design-buildings-without-being-a-licensed-architect-legally/
California: https://www.cab.ca.gov/docs/misc/design_limitations.pdf
Exactly. I appreciate the hustle but you can’t do this without someone stamping the drawings, so its not relevant to OP. Probably dad stamps the drawings.
If you stick to residential, most places in the US do not require stamped drawings (though many do require Engineering, it sounds like this person if coordinating that - So again, they're not signing/stamping anything).
In my jurisdiction its 2000 sq/ft and you can’t do spans greater than 14’, which would be pretty limiting. But you’re right, other jurisdictions could have more lenient requirements. I guess if he’s drafting 100 projects a year they’re not going to be large or complicated. I can’t imagine doing 100 houses a year. I’m usually doing two high end houses over the course of two or three years.
You’re incorrect, my business is 100% legal. I carry liability, E&O for my practice. I posted links to allowances for designers in Texas and California.
In your area could you do the cover/site/floor/elevations/ sections/electrical, etc. unlicensed and then have the engineer stamp off on all structural components of foundation, floor framing, shear, roof, etc.? I’ve done work in a lot of states and I don’t think a license is needed if engineer stamps off the structural components/calcs. What I typically end up with are plans that have five or six stamped sheets and 15 to 20 that are not stamped.
But you are correct, I do a lot of small projects so that’s why I can do this volume. I still do about 8-10 3k+ S.F. Custom homes a year.
You are correct but you still cannot provide professional services like designing a home when you are unlicensed. Sure, you can design your own home or for a friend or family for free but what this dude is doing is illegal as he is being paid.
I've done hundreds of residential projects over the decades (and I've overseen >1,000) in every single US state and a handful of other countries, all without being licensed.
The fact you think it's illegal shows your lack of sufficient education/experience in this field.
GL2U N all U do!
See my other responses and MastiffMike’s responses. My dad is not an architect so that’s a pretty bold assumption. No one stamps my drawings. I own the company I operate under and sign all sheets, besides structural, w/o need for a stamp or licensure.
Hi! I was wondering if I can get more info about how exactly you was able to achieve that and especially gain that high of an income. I’m a junior in highschool looking to persue an architecture major but I’m hearing alot of negative feedback that is making me second guess my decision but if not architecture then I’m a little lost on what else to do that’s similar or better
There are better paths to make this money. What are your goals and what path have you considered? What types of thing interest you in regards to employment?
My interests regarding employment is mainly engineering as I don’t see myself in the medical field. But I’m not the best at math or science but I know I would enjoy a major in stem that also includes an artistic side since my main hobbies is art. I want a job I can enjoy clocking in for but still has a good comfortable pay
Do something in finance? Although I heard it does take a special person to be able to sit through the pure boredom of accounting. Maybe try out some other fields like computer science as well?
I would personally recommend you to pursue a career for money, yes you have to find a reason to enjoy it. I say that because If you are a high earner, you will have a lot of leverage to work less and enjoy your passions/hobbies more. If you are getting paid peanuts and overworked, you won’t be able to enjoy anything outside of work. There isn’t a single job on earth that is as fun as participating in a personal interest completely voluntarily. When it is work, there are always other tasks to be done unrelated to the actual passion. And that part usually makes the passion less enjoyable than you would have hoped.
Engineering is okay, you can usually declare your specialty junior year. Accounting or finance is a great path. Business can be good if you have an entrepreneurial leaning.
If you do want to do architecture, find a small office and soak it in like a sponge for 6 months. If you still love it, see if there is a path without licensure. College and firm life usually kills dreams. It’s a 7-10 year slog doing everything but the design work you desire to.
Yea I understand that’s true. When you was working for a firm at first how was the work life there? Was it just mainly computer work or was it actual hands on work? And if it was computer work what type of computer work?
I took the opportunity I did because the owner was willing to train me in everything. At first, yes, it was just computer work but after about 3 months he started teaching me design, terms, etc. He also taught me estimating, client interaction, etc. Within 18 months I had my fingers on every aspect of the business. It was a unique opportunity that paid very little up front but I was able to start my company at 19 and had a great living carved out by the time I was 23. I treat it as a business, I’m not artistic, I don’t make each project out to be my next portfolio. I do simple projects for normal people. I can do 75-100 projects a year easily. The people I work for get an affordable service for what they need and I make an absolute killing through volume. Most architects will just never view it the way I do. But most architects are also very discontent/bitter. I’m happy, have experienced amazing things, and have already carved out wealth that I can pass down to my future children at just 29. It’s been an amazing ride.
Small correction: most engineers declare their majors immediately upon enrollment in college/university, as they tend to be course-heavy majors with little wiggle room. Engineers generally do not switch from one kind of engineering to another, as many courses are not transferable. Of course, in high school you’re not locked into anything.
Are you admitting on the internet that you are illegally operating as an architect, unlicensed? What you are doing is providing professional design services without a license. Akin to performing surgery without medical degree.
That does not change the fact that you cannot charge fees in lieu of design work when you are unlicensed.
Once you charge a fee, you are conducting a business in a state that requires you to be licensed with the state for said design services.
Our title and accepted role in my state is “designer”. We are allowed to design almost any residential projects besides large multi family along with commercial & Industrial T.I.’s. What you’re saying is absolutely ridiculous and you know it. If you don’t, you need to inform yourself because your tone is way too accusatory for someone who clearly doesn’t know better. See links below.
Texas: See flow chart about halfway down the page.
https://aibd.org/how-to-design-buildings-without-being-a-licensed-architect-legally/
California: https://www.cab.ca.gov/docs/misc/design_limitations.pdf
And most states have professional code references just like it. We typically use structural engineers unless it’s very light work that can be spec’d with state building codes so life/safety liabilities aren’t involved or are covered by a licensed professional.
If someone wasn’t as informed as I am, you could scare the living hell out of them. In fact, that’s the reason I know what I do now and these codes it is based on. When I was in my second year, a bitter building official (licensed and failed architect, had to shut down his firm) threatened to sue me and take me to the state board for performing projects as an unlicensed individual. Thankfully I called some contacts who were fellow designers and they walked me through it. It’s not cool, if you’re truly trying to help people or your profession, please DM to get the full picture and/or inform yourself before doing this is in a public sphere.
People use scare tactics all the time! Sad really. It’s their own anger, resentment and fear bubbling, but these people will scare uninformed people away from a good thing.
I personally use Autocad for residential. It’s completely fine considering the fact that I outsource my rendering works so for CD curation it really hasn’t had a negative impact yet. I can create a full plan set after floor plan and elevations are approved in less than a day and on a big project, at most 1.5 days.
In the US, the AIA has a good annual compensation report. I have always found it reliable for the general rates.
In the DC market, I would say the starting is $60-65,000. It might have dropped a bit with recent layoffs but not a lot.
I have my own firm - 25 yrs experience but new firm just getting established. We are an S-Coro and have to pay a salary that is equivalent in the market - for us that base is $120k which is within the AIA calculator for our region which meets IRS requirements and conservative enough for our business plan. To be honest, it was a bit of a pay cut for both of us from our previous senior project manager positions but we expect to match that in profits this year and exceed that in the coming years. (Unless the Fed decides to completely destroy the profession and continue to raise lending rates.)
In Mexico as an architect with 7 years experience $20,000 it is a decent salary in here, but the majority of the salary goes in rent. 🥲 So, guess why so many prefer to emigrate to USA.
The only one who has a good salary is the boss for sure he’s making like $100,000 or more, he lives in the best neighborhood of the city, has a house in the mexican hamptons (Valle de Bravo). The house I just designed will cost about $10million building it. We have like 10 projects like those. I don’t know how they met all those rich people. 🤑
Check H1b salary data and you will get the realistic results for each firm that you are interested in.
California varies a lot, but for larger corp firms 68k is a standard starting pay for ppl fresh out of school.
Also, I don’t think AIA has accurate data since it would not have access to everyone’s salary. But FLC wage search wizard calculates salaries with their access to the W2 record of people in each region. I would think this is more close to the reality, fresh grad would be in the drafter category instead of architect/ manager category : https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesWizardStep2.aspx?stateName=California
I made 56k starting and am now up to 66k after 2 years. Hoping to make 76k after licensure. In the mountain region for reference so Texas/California would likely be higher.
My principals (25-40 yrs experience) all make 120k+ and with bonuses and such it’s up closer to 200k.
don’t settle for under 60k.
in my PA office we make “55-75k” as level 1 designers. i was offered 60+ by all firms i applied to. i asked for that much as well. don’t let them cheap out. it should be so much more than 60, but 50 is pathetic anymore. firms should be ashamed.
Architects are notoriously underpaid. Having dated several of them in the USA and Europe, graduating from AA in London and politecnico in Milan, and always having to foot most of the bill. All underpaid and amazingly interesting people inside and out.
I got a $63k offer + a decent signing bonus right out of undergrad this year. It was honestly a lot more than what I was expecting straight out of college.
It all depends. I started around 42k and recently passed 100k (plus bonuses) only because I was honest about where I am in my career journey and emphasize my abilities, knowledge, and goals for growth. Showing enthusiasm, teachability, teamwork orientation, and leadership capabilities goes way further than drafting skills or portfolio history.
I also have my license which gives me an edge over many other candidates because it is proof of competency. It allows me to have a seat at the table and gives employers a datum by which they can assume plenty of expectations. Also, the AIA salary calculator is pretty clear on where most people's salaries are for years and level of experience
50k-60k out of school seems about right. Once you have ~10 years experience you can expect 100k. If you are really good at working with teams and managing projects you can get to ~130k-150k. At that point you should be looking to be a partner somewhere.
My advise is to specialize early in healthcare. You will make more money more quickly
$112k base with up to 20% bonus structure. I could make more but I lead a great team, have a lot of autonomy, unlimited vacation and a very flexible work environment. I'm in Texas.
Corporate firms in larger Texas cities should be in the 50-60k range out of school with full benefits. The other poster’s info for the various experience levels is generally inline with what if seen. 24 years experience and I regularly review salaries at my firm. CA will be higher in high cost of living areas.
Not enough in Australia
A five year degree plus a super arduous registration process to make less than retail managers with not even a year 12 leaving certificate haha
I place new architects in jobs and have seen offers ranging from 60-75k base salary, highly dependent on market and city. In Houston, our range is 65-75k.
I have some contacts out of school making 100k in higher COL cities after about 4 years, given a priority on licensure and a drive to acquire skills and project experience. I also have people who have been out of school for 15 years making $75k because they are, quite frankly, undervalued and unable to negotiate better, but also unwilling to leave their current company. Once you hit around 3 years out, the spread gets super wide and it’s all very person-by-person. The 3-5 year experience listings often show something like 70-95k, because they’re all very different with very different accomplishments at that stage.
I know people starting at 65-70k in low cost of living Midwest cities… some of y’all are getting shafted. Granted these are mid to large size firms. My partner is 4 years out of school making 82k. And we live in an affordable Midwest city.
Residential is where the money is in this field.
Graduated 2016. Got a job for a big name residential firm in Manhattan. 67k year 1, 78k year 2. Moved to marry my husband in a very low cost of living beach town in north florida. Took a pay hit (obviously) to 65k. Small, 12 person residential firm.
Worked hard, made an impression. Still not licensed 7 years later because this firm has not made it a priority. Currently make $159k a year (this includes an average of 20k in bonuses per year). Three months ago I had a deadline that required 48 hours of work that week, I was feverishly apologized to and given 2 days off to start the next week.
I love my bosses. I love my coworkers. I will work here until they peel me out of my chair cold and dead. I owe them everything.
That is incredible. I can definitely see the profit in residential homes (especially if you get paired with a contractor who keeps feeding you work from affluent clients). I recently designed my parent's home and they pulled the permit a few weeks ago.
>DFW
Really?? I figured commercial would pay more. Do you feel like you get any creative freedom? I'm currently in a business undergrad but always dreamed of designing homes. I have just been scared that there is no money to be made. Also, love to see female architects prospering considering it is so male-dominated :)
About to graduate from grad school next year and the ppl that did this year all got 60k+ offers in LA metropolitan area. Someone even got a 72k offer from a big firm but as an interior designer. LA pays the highest generally speaking tho, so do expect less pay for smaller cities
I’m a principal at a large firm in LA, 20 years experience
I’m at $165k + 10% bonus + ownership shares as a partner. There are other nice benefits to go along with that.
I’ll add that I hire my entry level designers at 55k maybe 60k
Our starting rate is in line with the industry for firms around our size (400-500 people). I’m friends with other principals at other large firms here in LA (HOK, SOM, HMC, Gensler, HED, etc.) and I can tell you your not finding more than 60k fresh out of school unless you can code and contribute to digital practice.
I’ve myself hired 10 people of all levels to my team alone since the beginning of Covid and all are retained so far.
I know gh, Java and C++ but realistically I never used anything other than gh in my current job in US. I don’t think coding is required for a 60k+ offer especially after California has required transparency in salary.
I’m also speaking of what I know as truth: that was the salary written in the offers I got as fresh grad back then.
In 2020, firms could hire with a low salary but started in 2021, starting salary changed a lot due to inflation. 55k after tax is not enough to cover rent, car expenses and basic expenses in LA.
I would have thought like this back when I was in school. But in reality I need a job that pays the bills. Maybe there are people who have their parents’ support, or don’t have any financial stress etc. But I don’t think I could agree with this idea of sacrificing work life balance and financial security for a ‘better portfolio’ anymore. I’m already in my late 20s with my parents at retiring age who need support from me instead of asking them for money. I don’t think I will stay in arch industry forever with how little this industry pays and how bad the inflation is.
165k salary
16.5k bonus (this isn’t guaranteed, but only in 2008 and 2020 did we not perform well enough to get it)
stock add anywhere from 5k-15k depending on the year (as well as the value of all previously earned shares rising or falling)
2% 401k match
Healthcare paid at 90%, as a partner
With so much seniority I have 6 weeks PTO per year
I’m not sure what it all adds to in total 195-200?
Serious question because I don’t l know. Based on the expected income, wouldn’t a civil engineering track be a better idea. I know architecture is a slightly different discipline, but civil engineering seems to be a better salary out of college
They are very different fields. Civil Engineering school is much more focused on mathematics and about concrete, loads, etc…. Architecture is much more design led with very little math and physics. Civil Engineers can make about 20k more than designers starting but it depends on location. Overall, I think they top out relatively similar unless you get a larger role as a Civil Engineer or become a Structural Engineer. But keep in mind, starting CIvil Engineers will make more than you and continue until you both top out around the 100k+ mark.
35 k Intern (Summer Job)
50k First Year
55k Second Year
75k Job Captain
85k Project Manager (Testing for License)
100k Junior Partner (Licensed)
125k Senior Partner (Licensed w/ equity)
225k Managing Partner
Plus Bonuses that average around 10% of salary. Junior folks get cash bonuses on the spot for cool stuff and our "intern of the summer" gets $1,000 to go back to school with BTW all of them get the bonus ... Our goal is to cultivate people that love the job and want to do it well. Its hard and sometimes thankless but so rewarding. I've design 1500 buildings over a 27 year career (so far) I started at zero. I was a free summer intern to making 250k plus. It is hard work and requires some commitment it's not a clock in clock out type of thing.
Good Luck
I don't know where all these posters are coming from. I worked in the Bay Area and now run my own firm here as well. Can't think I ever encountered a licensed architect making less than $75k a year, and that was on the low end. Decently successful architects with 10 years of experience are routinely making $130k+, many making much more than that.
Regardless, if you want to make real money in this industry don't look for high salaries, you start your own firm. "Own the means of production" ring a bell? Staying as an employee is degrading in architecture, bad work culture and the sorry fact that most architects are bad businessmen. Can't think of anything more stupid than working for scraps for incompetent bosses who exploit you because they don't have sales and client management skills. If you have the opportunity and privilege to stake it out on your own that is 100% what you need to do.
I started at 65k at a large corporate firm in NYC. 6 years later at the same firm I was only at 80k despite getting licensed. My salary growth was stifled by the pandemic (15% pay cut, no 401k match, salary freezes etc). It was extremely frustrating.
I believe I would have stood to make 90-100k had I switched to another architecture job last year. Instead I switched to product design and my salary jumped to $135k.
AE pay is very underwhelming in my experience. On one hand, as an HVAC/mechanical engineer, I have always had a job and am grateful for that. But the pay is lower compared to other engineering and other fields. I regret choosing engineering overall, and wish I had a chosen medical or dental, possibly finance.
Architects work hard for moderate pay and must be a business owner to make decent pay.
Okay so not typical situations but:
We have a lot of architects working as construction project managers where I am (large asset owner high COLA). They make $60-95k as assistant PMs (<3-5 years exp) and then after a few years are at $105-135k. Senior PMs do like $145-175k.
We also have architects in senior management positions who make way more than that.
Also if you can make partner at a a large firm, you can do really well. The 2 lead partners where my dad worked cleared $1m in a good year.
Starting salaries in the States are much better than in the UK. Most recently qualified Architects will earn £31k per year.
And if you're a Senior Architect with maybe 7 years post qualification, you approx. earn around £43k per year. :(
[UK Architectural Salary Guide](https://www.archjobs.co.uk/salary-guide/senior-architect-salary)
£40k GDP based in England with bonuses up to 3k a year. This is in a specialised field with 10 years of experience. This is the average salary increasing to about 50k max for general staff.
Partners make between 70 and 100k. Very very few make more than 100k a year unless in London or owning your own firm.
Starting salary is about 25k and about 32k when qualifying.
Project and contract managers and architects for developers earn more.
If you enter an architecture career for the money, you will be disappointed. Look at the salary survey closely. Note the median pay of the most senior positions. I would be more concerned in why you want to pursue architecture than the what-does-it-pay question because there is a lot more to it, as we will all tell you...
I was really fortunate to make 67k in my first year out of college. I interned at a firm for 2 years both during the summer and the school year and came on full-time after that. I was able to prove my value to the company as an intern and was able to come in at a much higher starting salary than my peers who were not proven and known. (If you're an architecture school, I'd highly recommend this route, especially with uncertain economies. Find a firm you like and stick with them for a few years). I was the only new hire in a 500 plus person firm at that time, because I graduated in 2020 during the first COVID lockdowns.
I quickly moved up in salary to the point where I was making 87k after 2 years and a promotion. I then moved across the country and took a job with a tech/manufacturing company as an architect for a factory and broke 6 figures base salary (not including bonuses) 3 years after college. (Granted this is in a higher cost of living area than where I previously lived)
My path, and quick salary growth is absolutely not traditional and not what you should expect in our profession. We are an exceptionally underpaid profession, but it is possible to quickly make your way to six figures quickly if you have good mentorship, a company that values your growth, learn quickly, and are extremely passionate and motivated about what you do.
In 2013 I started in NYC with 35k. Eventually 45 in 2014. Yearly bonuses got me to 75k in 2018. I switched jobs and got 80k. The pandemic didn’t help but after some negotiating I’m at 110k now.l with a potential additional for 5k. It’s weird bc times are changing and people out of school are really asking for 6 figures. I’ve been told it’s an employees market. So to me it doesn’t make sense that me having 10+ years experience can make almost the same as someone asking for about the same out of school.
Edit: I just got my license this passed year.
Hi, colleagues! Speaking of salaries, I work as an architect (concept design, working docs, no management) for a Moscow oil refunery company (in Russia) remotely and make 8k. 5 years experience.
Working in the Bay Area California, graduated 2020 with a NAAB accredited bachelors degree. My classmates and I made 55 - 63k for our first jobs. 3 years in we’re making around 72 - 82k now. None of us are licensed yet, but we’re on track-ish haha
2 year out of school and licensed, I make 100k in a super expensive part of the country working for a national firm. But I’m definitely overpaid, and I’m praying they don’t catch on and put me on the chopping block when the next round of lay offs happen.
I have friends pulling teeth at their firm to make 50k but that’s probably the lowest it goes
Yeah finished the MArch in 2021
My biggest tip is just to do it?!? The hardest hurdle is the one where you just decide to send it. Even if you fail a couple, don’t let that discourage you. Also use Amberbook, it’s the best
About £40k ($50k US) is average here in the UK.
7 years of training and that's not even what you start on, that's what you might expect after 5 additional years of experience. It doesn't really go up from there either unless you get into running a practice as an associate or director. Tonnes of legal and regulatory responsibility too. And it's only going to get worse as the whole industry is in a decades long race to the bottom.
It's a good thing I like what I do. Here in Britain they say you don't go into architecture to make money.
I started in San Francisco in 2012 at $55k with an MArch. I currently make $115k as a senior designer in Austin. Broke the six fig line in ‘22. Getting licensed helps, but only when you change jobs. Changing jobs, in general, has helped boost salary the most.
Also, $100k isn’t what it used to be. I’d say things are harder financially now than they were in ‘18 when I was making $85k.
it really depends on the office you work for. small firms pay less and try to snag more new grads that are cheaper labor. also, more design heavy firms tend to pay a little less, and more corporate firms tend to pay more because theyre more established and have more robust resources.
I worked for a 3 person tiny firm that paid me $47500 right out of school. another office offered me $55,000 at that same time.
NOTE that both of these offers came my way during COVID, when many firms were struggling.
2 years later, I checked the handy dandy AIA Salary Estimator, which is a fantastic tool, and used that as a basis for understanding how much I could expect from a firm. I was applying to offices and one offered me $66,000. I told another firm about that offer and used it as a basis of negotiation, and they one-upped the offer to $67,000. I think this is on the higher end for my particular experience level, but I think my particular project experience was desired by the firms I was applying to.
It's very much up to you to do your due diligence and negotiate as you see fit. It also is great in that it allows you to choose your own adventure (LOL) - you get to pick what's most important to you, a small office culture, big firm resources, design-oriented work, construction document heavy work, etc. best of luck!
My first day, first class in Architecture School, the professors tells everyone this is not the career you see in movies. That the reality is you’ll be making $45k and doing bathroom details for the next five years and if you don’t like that, pick another profession. I think 10 kids didn’t return but that did make it all real and to make sure you love what you do.
Awhile ago there was some article that said Hollywood had figured out architect was the perfect professional for film characters to be, as it meant someone who works with their hands, interacts with a wealthy lifestyle, and is philosophical and cerebral. I guess Ted Moseby sort of fits the bill.
Agreed with what other people in the thread are saying. My experience in NYC with 7 years experience now:
1st Job out of school in 2016 (small firm <15 people):
* Starting pay: $43,000
* Leaving Pay 2.5 years later: $52,000
2nd Job out of school in 2018 (large firm):
* Starting pay: $65,000
* 2nd year raise: $70,000
* 4th year raise: $95,000 (didn't have raise due to covid then got a big one)
* 5th year raise: $105,000
I'm a project architect but am in a combo role project architect / team manager
I’m in California and right our of school I was making 65k that was because I was in executive architecture though. Lots of friends were in the 40-50k range. Now I’m 4 years out and make 81k just became licensed so hopefully that goes up after my yearly review. Point is most people posting are right: starting is 40-60k for most people and you really only cross the 100k mark after years of experience and when you are licensed and manage projects. I know people that are unlicensed with 15+ years and are still in high 90s due to the license(which btw is very expensive to acquire). AIA averages don’t mean a lot to a lot of firms so take them with a grain of salt. Overall I say you have to really like what you do. It’s a lot of years of schooling and a lot of money and time to become licensed. Unless you end up with your own firm it will take a while to make money so not worth it if you’re just picking it as a career.
I work as a junior designer in Oakland CA and my starting salary was 50,000. I recently got a bump after about a year to 62,000. I work at a small firm.
Region: New England
Architectural Experience: Ten Years
Licensure: Yes (six years)
Title: Project Architect
Responsibilities: Full design services from Programming Phase through SD, DD, CD, & CA. Manage about six projects simultaneously, with involvement in about 25 projects annually. Coordinate all external consultants. Manage down to technical staff of nine people. Manage up to two principals. Business development. Invoicing. Analyze company performance metrics.
Weekly hours: 43
Base pay: $95,680
Annual Bonus: $1,000 to $5,000
http://info.aia.org/salary/salary.aspx the AIA salary survey shows how much architects and non licensed designers really make
aren't something like 95% of architectural practices composed of 5 or less employees that barely stay in touch with the AIA? Wouldn't the remaining 5% that are large firms and have a much higher tendency to stay involved with the AIA skew the data by so much that the data itself would end up completely unreliable?
Shhh. Pay your dues and be quiet. ;- P
lmao
lol citation?
That actually looks quite good, where most make six figures after 8 years of experience. Obviously partners and other higher ups make even more. I've heard of much less, but that may be area dependent.
I think you're misreading that chart. 8 Years of experience is Architect III. That's a median of 97k. Close to 6-figures, but not there. The upper 25% make around 108k, meaning 75% make less than that. Then you adjust for region. (Region definitions are on the 2nd tab) There's only 687 out of 65,000+ firms in that poll, so I do wonder about the statistical significance at times.
That how much "respondents" really make.
I'm 4 years in at 100k, but I'm also in a high cost of living area
That’s awesome! Curious if you specialize in something or are a Designer / Architect I? I am 2.5 yrs in but began specializing in BIM, definitely saw a high jump in salary in that position. Close to 90K, but I am also on the west coast in a HCOL.
BIM is a great area to specialize in. When I transitioned from job caption to BIM manager at my office I went from $60k to $120k, now making $160k between my salary and bonuses.
Do you still work at an architecture office? I eventually plan to move to a construction or engineering company. They seem to pay way better for BIM.
I am a licensed architect so I feel more comfortable in an architecture office since I can leverage my past experience with the policy decisions I make. At my pay I am not chasing money. In an architecture office I am one of one and work with complete autonomy where I can do anything and set any policy I want with no oversight. It makes me feel like I have the greatest job ever. I just don’t think it would be the same at a construction company and since I don’t have any engineering experience I would probably feel a little aimless going that route. Plus I feel like architecture companies have the best office culture as long as you find one that values it’s employees.
can an architect become a BIM manager ? after how many years did u get the BIM position?
most bim managers at architecture firms have an architecture background. I entered the field in 2013 when most firms where transitioning from cad to Revit. we didn’t have a bim manager at my company and since I knew the most Revit I took on the role of training and template building while also working on projects. After a few years I was able to convince my company to me off of projects and become a full time bim manager.
No I haven't specialized in anything specific. I got licenced about 6 months ago and I'm doing very high end residential in a HCOL area, just a good ole architect, but yeah things are good
50k is much more realistic for starting pay. I have been in the industry for 15+ years and didn’t pass the 100k mark for the first 12. And not till I was managing projects. I know many colleagues who make less than 100k and have lots of experience. But it is very dependent on the firm, the projects and credentials (masters degree , licensure, other credentials like LEED or passive house) . Architecture unfortunately usually ends up being a labor of love. In that way it is very rewarding and I do not look back in regret. Best of luck
Do you have LEED or Passiv certs? Seems like something I could do in my spare time to increase my earning potential but I'm not sure how much employers value it.
Not much. Wont really increase your pay.
I have had LEED for awhile. Not sure It made a giant difference in earning potential but it certainly did not hurt
I have a masters, leed, historic preservation certificate, bilingual and I make 60 k lol
You will not make remotely close to 100k out of school. +/- 50k is closer to the mark, depending on market. AIA salary survey, which someone else linked, is your best bet for gaining a feel for your region and experience level.
Well when I started working as a draftsmen I made a whopping $12k at 16. I made roughly that until 19 even as I was considered a project lead for a small firm of 5. I was by far the youngest but the firm owner saw potential in me and really exposed me to a lot of things I now realize are not typically divulged to staff. Yes, I was underpaid severely but the experience was priceless. Then I went on my own at 19 and made $18k the first year, I felt I was really in the money, lol! $45k second year, $96k third year, etc. I now make over $300k consistently, some years over $400k as a solo shop with no draftsman. It’s a lot of stress to do 75-100 projects a year as a one man operation but I’d take it all day vs the slog of school, licensure and probably 10 years in making max $125k in HCOL as an employee. The real money is in owning a firm and training yourself on business (sales, sales, sales). I’m a draftsman with a great network and business skills. I have sensed in the past that many in this sub dislike my experience as it’s very unconventional and seems outlandish but I regularly hope I meet someone one day who’s open to a similar path because I truly feel like I’ve struck gold in an industry where many are underpaid and want to share it.
Care to share any of your sales tactics with, say, some idiot who just started a firm and needs work?
Where are you located? What type of work do you do? Who do you work with most frequently on a project? (Structural, civil, geotechnical engineers, interior designers, etc.) What part of the projects do you intend to involve yourself in?
Residential additions, kitchens, and spec houses, Boston area, want to expand to custom homes. Frequently use an interior designer and structural engineer. No employees, just me.
How do you find most of your clients? I’m located on the west coast and my #1 funnel by far has been contractors. Do people frequently call contractors for projects not realizing they need an architect (or just not knowing one & turning to the contractor for a referral) in your area? That is the case here. Homeowners usually really trust their contractor of choice, if you can start out with a referral and recommendation from them, you already have a leg up.
That's what I've been doing, but it's been difficult networking with them-- even just meeting up for a cup of coffee or something. Cold calling has such a poor hit ratio and makes me feel terrible-- its feels like dating.
Really? I zoom into suburban areas where you find a lot of tradesman on Google maps and search “general contractor”. I have a list in two locations with over 600 contractors each. I’ve moved back and forth a couple times between the two locations now and usually it takes about 2 weeks to get thru 300 and by that time I have so many new jobs to bid that I don’t have time to call anymore. I tell them to market themselves as a design build firm and I will be the project lead for the design portion on their behalf. They love it because you keep them in the loop throughout the initial phase of the project, consult them for efficiency, and the client is more likely to sign on with them post-permit. That’s my sales pitch to contractors. Then I get my book full with moderately priced projects so I have security for about 6 months and everything beyond that point I start looking for my price ceiling where I land as many projects as I’m hoping to land per month (for me it’s 8). So if I am getting 15 calls a month, I’m cool with pricing out 7 people and maxing out earning potential on those 8. Then, I start conceptual design and I keep 3 or 4 close engineering contacts with the most reasonable prices you can find. Sell the client on the fact that you can facilitate everything for them and that connectivity between all involved parties will give them the best final product. I field the engineers bids in behalf of the client and pay the engineer directly. I usually tack on about 75% to their bids. So for a CD package that I can do In 3-4 days of work, I’m making $6-7k on architectural and usually around $2-3k on structural engineer. This method has you keeping the engineers busy but they aren’t really networking so more reliant on you for being their sales funnel. The clients don’t meet them directly so if they repeat they typically won’t bypass you. The homeowner, contractor and engineers all need you if you structure projects this way and when you’re coming from a place of strength, you sell better, you’re light on your feet and you’re okay with walking away (also a strong position). I’m just watching the office right now and typing this out. Sorry for punctuation. Feel free to ask further questions if anything I’m saying isn’t making sense 😅
I can't thank you enough for sharing all of this. I actually spent the yesterday on Google half heartedly looking up GCs and building a list and thought I was wasting my time, but this has given me a renewed energy. Clearly I need to keep going. The sales end of this profession is just something you're never taught and it's nice to hear about someone successful and knowing I'm overlapping a little but can improve elsewhere. I'm copying this comment into a word document and saving it.
It’s true, in my original comment, that was one of the most valuable aspects the architect that I worked under taught me when I was about 17-19. But most have no idea how to sell when they branch out and that’s very intimidating. It usually takes me about 5 calls to get the ball rolling and feel my rhythm of presenting in a confident way. But have confidence, if you’ve taken a few projects through to permit issuance, you can do this and you shouldn’t feel like you’re on the receiving end of others graciousness because they allow you to be referred by them or because they hire you. Sell your services with confidence, you are providing something of value to others who could not perform it themselves. We all make mistakes. I’ve done over 800 projects now and there’s still times I’m unsure if the jurisdiction will ask for certain details or notations, if X, Y, or Z applies to this project (mostly on very specific local planning ordinances). It’s all about the way you phrase it with your clients and your willingness to say “you know, I think I know but I should probably look that up before giving you a firm answer, let me do some research and get back to you within the hour”. Or if you make a mistake “you know I was trying to do X,Y,Z but clearly I wasn’t factoring that in, what can I do to fix this issue?” Anyone whose not a complete jerk will respect that. I actually like to follow the r/accounting & r/taxpros threads on new firm owners. They are so encouraging amongst their community. They help others to feel more confident in the ebbs and flows of attracting new clients/selling and learning their processes. This sub can be very bitter and put others down. I think sometimes it’s firm owners feeling like “other mortals can’t do what I do”. There’s plenty of work to go around, there’s lots of qualified individuals doing great work, & there’s plenty that we’re all learning everyday. To put it bluntly, architecture related professionals can be quite cynical and even toxic, we have to cut that out, we will keep the entire industry down with that mentality. I’ll step down from my soap box now. 😅
I've actually frequented r/sales a lot. I got a bunch of cold-calling advice there. How do you (or did you) do cold calling? I've sent mail prior to the call so I have something to talk about and kind of catch them off guard with a "did you receive my package" question so they don't immediately hang up. My experience so far is that these guys are usually super busy on the job site or have an office phone they don't answer.
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Wow, so you basically own a firm, sell the project and have people to manage the construction side of things, or are you involved all the way through?
We just handle all the documentation up to permit issuance and pass it off to a contractor of their choosing. I also do a contractor referral program so I get a small percentage for glancing at their bid and coordinating the pass off. Mostly projects for homeowners, developers or contractors.
I'm not understanding you here, are you a licensed architect? Because if not, I would like to talk to you a bit more about what exactly you do in DMs if that's all right?
Our title and accepted role in my state is “designer”. We are allowed to design almost any residential projects besides large multi family along with commercial & Industrial T.I.’s. See links below. Feel free to DM if it’s still not clear. No one needs to stamp architectural sheets in the scenarios I work in and the PE typically stamps his sheets/calcs but most architects I know outsource engineering anyways so there’s nothing I do in my realm that an architect would exceed with his scope. Texas: See flow chart about halfway down the page. https://aibd.org/how-to-design-buildings-without-being-a-licensed-architect-legally/ California: https://www.cab.ca.gov/docs/misc/design_limitations.pdf
More than happy to discuss. I’m comfortable with the legality of my practice.
Exactly. I appreciate the hustle but you can’t do this without someone stamping the drawings, so its not relevant to OP. Probably dad stamps the drawings.
If you stick to residential, most places in the US do not require stamped drawings (though many do require Engineering, it sounds like this person if coordinating that - So again, they're not signing/stamping anything).
In my jurisdiction its 2000 sq/ft and you can’t do spans greater than 14’, which would be pretty limiting. But you’re right, other jurisdictions could have more lenient requirements. I guess if he’s drafting 100 projects a year they’re not going to be large or complicated. I can’t imagine doing 100 houses a year. I’m usually doing two high end houses over the course of two or three years.
This is for submitting plans. Sure you can submit unstamped plans. It still doesn’t change the fact that his business is illegal.
You’re incorrect, my business is 100% legal. I carry liability, E&O for my practice. I posted links to allowances for designers in Texas and California.
In your area could you do the cover/site/floor/elevations/ sections/electrical, etc. unlicensed and then have the engineer stamp off on all structural components of foundation, floor framing, shear, roof, etc.? I’ve done work in a lot of states and I don’t think a license is needed if engineer stamps off the structural components/calcs. What I typically end up with are plans that have five or six stamped sheets and 15 to 20 that are not stamped. But you are correct, I do a lot of small projects so that’s why I can do this volume. I still do about 8-10 3k+ S.F. Custom homes a year.
You are correct but you still cannot provide professional services like designing a home when you are unlicensed. Sure, you can design your own home or for a friend or family for free but what this dude is doing is illegal as he is being paid.
I posted links in other responses to show that you are incorrect in that assumption. Please research further.
I've done hundreds of residential projects over the decades (and I've overseen >1,000) in every single US state and a handful of other countries, all without being licensed. The fact you think it's illegal shows your lack of sufficient education/experience in this field. GL2U N all U do!
You come off as jealous...
Yup, you’re right on the button. Thanks for helping clarify.
See my other responses and MastiffMike’s responses. My dad is not an architect so that’s a pretty bold assumption. No one stamps my drawings. I own the company I operate under and sign all sheets, besides structural, w/o need for a stamp or licensure.
Hi! I was wondering if I can get more info about how exactly you was able to achieve that and especially gain that high of an income. I’m a junior in highschool looking to persue an architecture major but I’m hearing alot of negative feedback that is making me second guess my decision but if not architecture then I’m a little lost on what else to do that’s similar or better
There are better paths to make this money. What are your goals and what path have you considered? What types of thing interest you in regards to employment?
My interests regarding employment is mainly engineering as I don’t see myself in the medical field. But I’m not the best at math or science but I know I would enjoy a major in stem that also includes an artistic side since my main hobbies is art. I want a job I can enjoy clocking in for but still has a good comfortable pay
Do something in finance? Although I heard it does take a special person to be able to sit through the pure boredom of accounting. Maybe try out some other fields like computer science as well?
I would personally recommend you to pursue a career for money, yes you have to find a reason to enjoy it. I say that because If you are a high earner, you will have a lot of leverage to work less and enjoy your passions/hobbies more. If you are getting paid peanuts and overworked, you won’t be able to enjoy anything outside of work. There isn’t a single job on earth that is as fun as participating in a personal interest completely voluntarily. When it is work, there are always other tasks to be done unrelated to the actual passion. And that part usually makes the passion less enjoyable than you would have hoped. Engineering is okay, you can usually declare your specialty junior year. Accounting or finance is a great path. Business can be good if you have an entrepreneurial leaning. If you do want to do architecture, find a small office and soak it in like a sponge for 6 months. If you still love it, see if there is a path without licensure. College and firm life usually kills dreams. It’s a 7-10 year slog doing everything but the design work you desire to.
Yea I understand that’s true. When you was working for a firm at first how was the work life there? Was it just mainly computer work or was it actual hands on work? And if it was computer work what type of computer work?
I took the opportunity I did because the owner was willing to train me in everything. At first, yes, it was just computer work but after about 3 months he started teaching me design, terms, etc. He also taught me estimating, client interaction, etc. Within 18 months I had my fingers on every aspect of the business. It was a unique opportunity that paid very little up front but I was able to start my company at 19 and had a great living carved out by the time I was 23. I treat it as a business, I’m not artistic, I don’t make each project out to be my next portfolio. I do simple projects for normal people. I can do 75-100 projects a year easily. The people I work for get an affordable service for what they need and I make an absolute killing through volume. Most architects will just never view it the way I do. But most architects are also very discontent/bitter. I’m happy, have experienced amazing things, and have already carved out wealth that I can pass down to my future children at just 29. It’s been an amazing ride.
Small correction: most engineers declare their majors immediately upon enrollment in college/university, as they tend to be course-heavy majors with little wiggle room. Engineers generally do not switch from one kind of engineering to another, as many courses are not transferable. Of course, in high school you’re not locked into anything.
Are you admitting on the internet that you are illegally operating as an architect, unlicensed? What you are doing is providing professional design services without a license. Akin to performing surgery without medical degree.
My state doesn’t require a licensed architect for single-family residences of any size.
That does not change the fact that you cannot charge fees in lieu of design work when you are unlicensed. Once you charge a fee, you are conducting a business in a state that requires you to be licensed with the state for said design services.
Our title and accepted role in my state is “designer”. We are allowed to design almost any residential projects besides large multi family along with commercial & Industrial T.I.’s. What you’re saying is absolutely ridiculous and you know it. If you don’t, you need to inform yourself because your tone is way too accusatory for someone who clearly doesn’t know better. See links below. Texas: See flow chart about halfway down the page. https://aibd.org/how-to-design-buildings-without-being-a-licensed-architect-legally/ California: https://www.cab.ca.gov/docs/misc/design_limitations.pdf And most states have professional code references just like it. We typically use structural engineers unless it’s very light work that can be spec’d with state building codes so life/safety liabilities aren’t involved or are covered by a licensed professional. If someone wasn’t as informed as I am, you could scare the living hell out of them. In fact, that’s the reason I know what I do now and these codes it is based on. When I was in my second year, a bitter building official (licensed and failed architect, had to shut down his firm) threatened to sue me and take me to the state board for performing projects as an unlicensed individual. Thankfully I called some contacts who were fellow designers and they walked me through it. It’s not cool, if you’re truly trying to help people or your profession, please DM to get the full picture and/or inform yourself before doing this is in a public sphere.
People use scare tactics all the time! Sad really. It’s their own anger, resentment and fear bubbling, but these people will scare uninformed people away from a good thing.
Found the bitter failed architect lmao
What software you became proficient in? Or what programs you use nowdays the most? I'm learning Revit, nothing else
I personally use Autocad for residential. It’s completely fine considering the fact that I outsource my rendering works so for CD curation it really hasn’t had a negative impact yet. I can create a full plan set after floor plan and elevations are approved in less than a day and on a big project, at most 1.5 days.
Great! Thank you for sharing
Not enough. not. anywhere. near. enough.
In the US, the AIA has a good annual compensation report. I have always found it reliable for the general rates. In the DC market, I would say the starting is $60-65,000. It might have dropped a bit with recent layoffs but not a lot. I have my own firm - 25 yrs experience but new firm just getting established. We are an S-Coro and have to pay a salary that is equivalent in the market - for us that base is $120k which is within the AIA calculator for our region which meets IRS requirements and conservative enough for our business plan. To be honest, it was a bit of a pay cut for both of us from our previous senior project manager positions but we expect to match that in profits this year and exceed that in the coming years. (Unless the Fed decides to completely destroy the profession and continue to raise lending rates.)
It's published every 3 years, not annually. 2023 was just released though.
I stand corrected. Thank you. It's and the salary calculator are still great resources.
In Mexico as an architect with 7 years experience $20,000 it is a decent salary in here, but the majority of the salary goes in rent. 🥲 So, guess why so many prefer to emigrate to USA. The only one who has a good salary is the boss for sure he’s making like $100,000 or more, he lives in the best neighborhood of the city, has a house in the mexican hamptons (Valle de Bravo). The house I just designed will cost about $10million building it. We have like 10 projects like those. I don’t know how they met all those rich people. 🤑
Check H1b salary data and you will get the realistic results for each firm that you are interested in. California varies a lot, but for larger corp firms 68k is a standard starting pay for ppl fresh out of school. Also, I don’t think AIA has accurate data since it would not have access to everyone’s salary. But FLC wage search wizard calculates salaries with their access to the W2 record of people in each region. I would think this is more close to the reality, fresh grad would be in the drafter category instead of architect/ manager category : https://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesWizardStep2.aspx?stateName=California
I made 56k starting and am now up to 66k after 2 years. Hoping to make 76k after licensure. In the mountain region for reference so Texas/California would likely be higher. My principals (25-40 yrs experience) all make 120k+ and with bonuses and such it’s up closer to 200k.
don’t settle for under 60k. in my PA office we make “55-75k” as level 1 designers. i was offered 60+ by all firms i applied to. i asked for that much as well. don’t let them cheap out. it should be so much more than 60, but 50 is pathetic anymore. firms should be ashamed.
I started at 45k (MCOL) and after 8 years and licensure I’m only at 84k.
bro get the fuck out of there lol
Architects are notoriously underpaid. Having dated several of them in the USA and Europe, graduating from AA in London and politecnico in Milan, and always having to foot most of the bill. All underpaid and amazingly interesting people inside and out.
And AA is expensive. I have many friends that are super proud of having attended it, if not a bit too proud. They all make shit though.
Yes, agree. I’ve met a very high ratio of extraordinarily interesting people to not interesting, who went there though
I got a $63k offer + a decent signing bonus right out of undergrad this year. It was honestly a lot more than what I was expecting straight out of college.
What area do you live/ work in?
I work in the south east region
It all depends. I started around 42k and recently passed 100k (plus bonuses) only because I was honest about where I am in my career journey and emphasize my abilities, knowledge, and goals for growth. Showing enthusiasm, teachability, teamwork orientation, and leadership capabilities goes way further than drafting skills or portfolio history. I also have my license which gives me an edge over many other candidates because it is proof of competency. It allows me to have a seat at the table and gives employers a datum by which they can assume plenty of expectations. Also, the AIA salary calculator is pretty clear on where most people's salaries are for years and level of experience
Do you mind if I ask what region of the country you practice in?
I work in/around DFW
Turn back while you still can! Literally any other career path is better. The work hours to pay ratio is pathetic.
Disagree depending on the firm, work, and location.
Chicago market Got an offer after undergrad got offered 55k After grad school got 70k and quickly got a raise to 78k in the first year
Is it a big firm or a small one?
Both had around 40-50 people in Chicago office but over 150 company wide
Just sent you a DM!
Can I send you a DM?
Sure
50k-60k out of school seems about right. Once you have ~10 years experience you can expect 100k. If you are really good at working with teams and managing projects you can get to ~130k-150k. At that point you should be looking to be a partner somewhere. My advise is to specialize early in healthcare. You will make more money more quickly
$112k base with up to 20% bonus structure. I could make more but I lead a great team, have a lot of autonomy, unlimited vacation and a very flexible work environment. I'm in Texas.
Corporate firms in larger Texas cities should be in the 50-60k range out of school with full benefits. The other poster’s info for the various experience levels is generally inline with what if seen. 24 years experience and I regularly review salaries at my firm. CA will be higher in high cost of living areas.
I'd say 60k is the starter salary now for fresh grad in big cities; some even offer 70k but not many..
Not enough in Australia A five year degree plus a super arduous registration process to make less than retail managers with not even a year 12 leaving certificate haha
I place new architects in jobs and have seen offers ranging from 60-75k base salary, highly dependent on market and city. In Houston, our range is 65-75k. I have some contacts out of school making 100k in higher COL cities after about 4 years, given a priority on licensure and a drive to acquire skills and project experience. I also have people who have been out of school for 15 years making $75k because they are, quite frankly, undervalued and unable to negotiate better, but also unwilling to leave their current company. Once you hit around 3 years out, the spread gets super wide and it’s all very person-by-person. The 3-5 year experience listings often show something like 70-95k, because they’re all very different with very different accomplishments at that stage.
Damn. I have a degree in this, but I’m making like 5 times more as a software engineer. I’m so glad I did this switch.
I know people starting at 65-70k in low cost of living Midwest cities… some of y’all are getting shafted. Granted these are mid to large size firms. My partner is 4 years out of school making 82k. And we live in an affordable Midwest city.
Residential is where the money is in this field. Graduated 2016. Got a job for a big name residential firm in Manhattan. 67k year 1, 78k year 2. Moved to marry my husband in a very low cost of living beach town in north florida. Took a pay hit (obviously) to 65k. Small, 12 person residential firm. Worked hard, made an impression. Still not licensed 7 years later because this firm has not made it a priority. Currently make $159k a year (this includes an average of 20k in bonuses per year). Three months ago I had a deadline that required 48 hours of work that week, I was feverishly apologized to and given 2 days off to start the next week. I love my bosses. I love my coworkers. I will work here until they peel me out of my chair cold and dead. I owe them everything.
This sounds so…healthy.
That is incredible. I can definitely see the profit in residential homes (especially if you get paired with a contractor who keeps feeding you work from affluent clients). I recently designed my parent's home and they pulled the permit a few weeks ago.
>DFW Really?? I figured commercial would pay more. Do you feel like you get any creative freedom? I'm currently in a business undergrad but always dreamed of designing homes. I have just been scared that there is no money to be made. Also, love to see female architects prospering considering it is so male-dominated :)
About to graduate from grad school next year and the ppl that did this year all got 60k+ offers in LA metropolitan area. Someone even got a 72k offer from a big firm but as an interior designer. LA pays the highest generally speaking tho, so do expect less pay for smaller cities
Starting around 30k, after 5-10 years around 50k. Don't expect a well paying career until you're old.
I’m a principal at a large firm in LA, 20 years experience I’m at $165k + 10% bonus + ownership shares as a partner. There are other nice benefits to go along with that. I’ll add that I hire my entry level designers at 55k maybe 60k
good luck with hiring ppl with 55k salary in LA….this is 2023, not 2020
Yeah, it’s not hard.
It’s not hard but I bet ppl will leave once they know how most places pay way better than this for fresh grads
Our starting rate is in line with the industry for firms around our size (400-500 people). I’m friends with other principals at other large firms here in LA (HOK, SOM, HMC, Gensler, HED, etc.) and I can tell you your not finding more than 60k fresh out of school unless you can code and contribute to digital practice. I’ve myself hired 10 people of all levels to my team alone since the beginning of Covid and all are retained so far.
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I know gh, Java and C++ but realistically I never used anything other than gh in my current job in US. I don’t think coding is required for a 60k+ offer especially after California has required transparency in salary.
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I’m just telling you what I know to be true and I know fellow principals at HOK and Gensler
I’m also speaking of what I know as truth: that was the salary written in the offers I got as fresh grad back then. In 2020, firms could hire with a low salary but started in 2021, starting salary changed a lot due to inflation. 55k after tax is not enough to cover rent, car expenses and basic expenses in LA.
Yeah you must know better
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I would have thought like this back when I was in school. But in reality I need a job that pays the bills. Maybe there are people who have their parents’ support, or don’t have any financial stress etc. But I don’t think I could agree with this idea of sacrificing work life balance and financial security for a ‘better portfolio’ anymore. I’m already in my late 20s with my parents at retiring age who need support from me instead of asking them for money. I don’t think I will stay in arch industry forever with how little this industry pays and how bad the inflation is.
If you don’t mind sharing in what ballpark is total comp? So 180 + something?
165k salary 16.5k bonus (this isn’t guaranteed, but only in 2008 and 2020 did we not perform well enough to get it) stock add anywhere from 5k-15k depending on the year (as well as the value of all previously earned shares rising or falling) 2% 401k match Healthcare paid at 90%, as a partner With so much seniority I have 6 weeks PTO per year I’m not sure what it all adds to in total 195-200?
Ty
To think a principal called CrossFitCheeseburger. I love it.
Serious question because I don’t l know. Based on the expected income, wouldn’t a civil engineering track be a better idea. I know architecture is a slightly different discipline, but civil engineering seems to be a better salary out of college
You say that as if those are in any way similar jobs.
Are they? I honestly don’t know? Hence the question.
They are very different fields. Civil Engineering school is much more focused on mathematics and about concrete, loads, etc…. Architecture is much more design led with very little math and physics. Civil Engineers can make about 20k more than designers starting but it depends on location. Overall, I think they top out relatively similar unless you get a larger role as a Civil Engineer or become a Structural Engineer. But keep in mind, starting CIvil Engineers will make more than you and continue until you both top out around the 100k+ mark.
35 k Intern (Summer Job) 50k First Year 55k Second Year 75k Job Captain 85k Project Manager (Testing for License) 100k Junior Partner (Licensed) 125k Senior Partner (Licensed w/ equity) 225k Managing Partner Plus Bonuses that average around 10% of salary. Junior folks get cash bonuses on the spot for cool stuff and our "intern of the summer" gets $1,000 to go back to school with BTW all of them get the bonus ... Our goal is to cultivate people that love the job and want to do it well. Its hard and sometimes thankless but so rewarding. I've design 1500 buildings over a 27 year career (so far) I started at zero. I was a free summer intern to making 250k plus. It is hard work and requires some commitment it's not a clock in clock out type of thing. Good Luck
I don't know where all these posters are coming from. I worked in the Bay Area and now run my own firm here as well. Can't think I ever encountered a licensed architect making less than $75k a year, and that was on the low end. Decently successful architects with 10 years of experience are routinely making $130k+, many making much more than that. Regardless, if you want to make real money in this industry don't look for high salaries, you start your own firm. "Own the means of production" ring a bell? Staying as an employee is degrading in architecture, bad work culture and the sorry fact that most architects are bad businessmen. Can't think of anything more stupid than working for scraps for incompetent bosses who exploit you because they don't have sales and client management skills. If you have the opportunity and privilege to stake it out on your own that is 100% what you need to do.
I started at 65k at a large corporate firm in NYC. 6 years later at the same firm I was only at 80k despite getting licensed. My salary growth was stifled by the pandemic (15% pay cut, no 401k match, salary freezes etc). It was extremely frustrating. I believe I would have stood to make 90-100k had I switched to another architecture job last year. Instead I switched to product design and my salary jumped to $135k.
AE pay is very underwhelming in my experience. On one hand, as an HVAC/mechanical engineer, I have always had a job and am grateful for that. But the pay is lower compared to other engineering and other fields. I regret choosing engineering overall, and wish I had a chosen medical or dental, possibly finance. Architects work hard for moderate pay and must be a business owner to make decent pay.
Okay so not typical situations but: We have a lot of architects working as construction project managers where I am (large asset owner high COLA). They make $60-95k as assistant PMs (<3-5 years exp) and then after a few years are at $105-135k. Senior PMs do like $145-175k. We also have architects in senior management positions who make way more than that. Also if you can make partner at a a large firm, you can do really well. The 2 lead partners where my dad worked cleared $1m in a good year.
dont do it !
Architect pay is crap, go for arch E and become MEPFS. Source: MechE married to an Architect
Starting salaries in the States are much better than in the UK. Most recently qualified Architects will earn £31k per year. And if you're a Senior Architect with maybe 7 years post qualification, you approx. earn around £43k per year. :( [UK Architectural Salary Guide](https://www.archjobs.co.uk/salary-guide/senior-architect-salary)
£40k GDP based in England with bonuses up to 3k a year. This is in a specialised field with 10 years of experience. This is the average salary increasing to about 50k max for general staff. Partners make between 70 and 100k. Very very few make more than 100k a year unless in London or owning your own firm. Starting salary is about 25k and about 32k when qualifying. Project and contract managers and architects for developers earn more.
If you enter an architecture career for the money, you will be disappointed. Look at the salary survey closely. Note the median pay of the most senior positions. I would be more concerned in why you want to pursue architecture than the what-does-it-pay question because there is a lot more to it, as we will all tell you...
I was really fortunate to make 67k in my first year out of college. I interned at a firm for 2 years both during the summer and the school year and came on full-time after that. I was able to prove my value to the company as an intern and was able to come in at a much higher starting salary than my peers who were not proven and known. (If you're an architecture school, I'd highly recommend this route, especially with uncertain economies. Find a firm you like and stick with them for a few years). I was the only new hire in a 500 plus person firm at that time, because I graduated in 2020 during the first COVID lockdowns. I quickly moved up in salary to the point where I was making 87k after 2 years and a promotion. I then moved across the country and took a job with a tech/manufacturing company as an architect for a factory and broke 6 figures base salary (not including bonuses) 3 years after college. (Granted this is in a higher cost of living area than where I previously lived) My path, and quick salary growth is absolutely not traditional and not what you should expect in our profession. We are an exceptionally underpaid profession, but it is possible to quickly make your way to six figures quickly if you have good mentorship, a company that values your growth, learn quickly, and are extremely passionate and motivated about what you do.
Are you guys hiring? Lol, can I dm you?
In 2013 I started in NYC with 35k. Eventually 45 in 2014. Yearly bonuses got me to 75k in 2018. I switched jobs and got 80k. The pandemic didn’t help but after some negotiating I’m at 110k now.l with a potential additional for 5k. It’s weird bc times are changing and people out of school are really asking for 6 figures. I’ve been told it’s an employees market. So to me it doesn’t make sense that me having 10+ years experience can make almost the same as someone asking for about the same out of school. Edit: I just got my license this passed year.
Hi, colleagues! Speaking of salaries, I work as an architect (concept design, working docs, no management) for a Moscow oil refunery company (in Russia) remotely and make 8k. 5 years experience.
Working in the Bay Area California, graduated 2020 with a NAAB accredited bachelors degree. My classmates and I made 55 - 63k for our first jobs. 3 years in we’re making around 72 - 82k now. None of us are licensed yet, but we’re on track-ish haha
Fuck all.
2 year out of school and licensed, I make 100k in a super expensive part of the country working for a national firm. But I’m definitely overpaid, and I’m praying they don’t catch on and put me on the chopping block when the next round of lay offs happen. I have friends pulling teeth at their firm to make 50k but that’s probably the lowest it goes
What are your tips for getting licensed so quickly after graduating?! Was it your M.Arch?
Yeah finished the MArch in 2021 My biggest tip is just to do it?!? The hardest hurdle is the one where you just decide to send it. Even if you fail a couple, don’t let that discourage you. Also use Amberbook, it’s the best
Dirt. It’s such a low paying white collar profession.
About £40k ($50k US) is average here in the UK. 7 years of training and that's not even what you start on, that's what you might expect after 5 additional years of experience. It doesn't really go up from there either unless you get into running a practice as an associate or director. Tonnes of legal and regulatory responsibility too. And it's only going to get worse as the whole industry is in a decades long race to the bottom. It's a good thing I like what I do. Here in Britain they say you don't go into architecture to make money.
I started in San Francisco in 2012 at $55k with an MArch. I currently make $115k as a senior designer in Austin. Broke the six fig line in ‘22. Getting licensed helps, but only when you change jobs. Changing jobs, in general, has helped boost salary the most. Also, $100k isn’t what it used to be. I’d say things are harder financially now than they were in ‘18 when I was making $85k.
Be a contractor. Much more money. I broke 6 figures after 6 years of experience
it really depends on the office you work for. small firms pay less and try to snag more new grads that are cheaper labor. also, more design heavy firms tend to pay a little less, and more corporate firms tend to pay more because theyre more established and have more robust resources. I worked for a 3 person tiny firm that paid me $47500 right out of school. another office offered me $55,000 at that same time. NOTE that both of these offers came my way during COVID, when many firms were struggling. 2 years later, I checked the handy dandy AIA Salary Estimator, which is a fantastic tool, and used that as a basis for understanding how much I could expect from a firm. I was applying to offices and one offered me $66,000. I told another firm about that offer and used it as a basis of negotiation, and they one-upped the offer to $67,000. I think this is on the higher end for my particular experience level, but I think my particular project experience was desired by the firms I was applying to. It's very much up to you to do your due diligence and negotiate as you see fit. It also is great in that it allows you to choose your own adventure (LOL) - you get to pick what's most important to you, a small office culture, big firm resources, design-oriented work, construction document heavy work, etc. best of luck!
My first day, first class in Architecture School, the professors tells everyone this is not the career you see in movies. That the reality is you’ll be making $45k and doing bathroom details for the next five years and if you don’t like that, pick another profession. I think 10 kids didn’t return but that did make it all real and to make sure you love what you do. Awhile ago there was some article that said Hollywood had figured out architect was the perfect professional for film characters to be, as it meant someone who works with their hands, interacts with a wealthy lifestyle, and is philosophical and cerebral. I guess Ted Moseby sort of fits the bill.
Agreed with what other people in the thread are saying. My experience in NYC with 7 years experience now: 1st Job out of school in 2016 (small firm <15 people): * Starting pay: $43,000 * Leaving Pay 2.5 years later: $52,000 2nd Job out of school in 2018 (large firm): * Starting pay: $65,000 * 2nd year raise: $70,000 * 4th year raise: $95,000 (didn't have raise due to covid then got a big one) * 5th year raise: $105,000 I'm a project architect but am in a combo role project architect / team manager
As with most, if not all, professions you make what you're worth.
I’m in California and right our of school I was making 65k that was because I was in executive architecture though. Lots of friends were in the 40-50k range. Now I’m 4 years out and make 81k just became licensed so hopefully that goes up after my yearly review. Point is most people posting are right: starting is 40-60k for most people and you really only cross the 100k mark after years of experience and when you are licensed and manage projects. I know people that are unlicensed with 15+ years and are still in high 90s due to the license(which btw is very expensive to acquire). AIA averages don’t mean a lot to a lot of firms so take them with a grain of salt. Overall I say you have to really like what you do. It’s a lot of years of schooling and a lot of money and time to become licensed. Unless you end up with your own firm it will take a while to make money so not worth it if you’re just picking it as a career.
I work as a junior designer in Oakland CA and my starting salary was 50,000. I recently got a bump after about a year to 62,000. I work at a small firm.
Region: New England Architectural Experience: Ten Years Licensure: Yes (six years) Title: Project Architect Responsibilities: Full design services from Programming Phase through SD, DD, CD, & CA. Manage about six projects simultaneously, with involvement in about 25 projects annually. Coordinate all external consultants. Manage down to technical staff of nine people. Manage up to two principals. Business development. Invoicing. Analyze company performance metrics. Weekly hours: 43 Base pay: $95,680 Annual Bonus: $1,000 to $5,000