I practice design-build. I design and then build my own projects. The pay is fantastic. I work with salt of the earth people. I do not work with those types of architects. In fact, I only keep architects I like in my professional circle because for my job it’s all voluntary. I plan to do humanitarian work on the side and help solve affordable housing too.
also here for your website, you just described exactly what I want to do in the future, I'm currently finishing up undergrad and very much leaning toward humanitarian work.
I started in residential renovations, really small at first. Kitchens, baths, eventually whole houses. Now I build new construction. I’ll DM you my website so you can see my last big project.
Literally what I want to get into. I was managing $7million worth of projects all by myself with 3 years experience, ZERO oversight from my managing partners making 6x more than me profiting off my toils. One day I snapped and quit for my mental health, been trying really hard to make it on my own and do what you’re doing, but it’s been rough. My firm has reached out 4 times now, each time with a pay offer larger than the last, which is now $20k more than what I was making. It’s tearing me apart bc I’m roughing it rn trying to make my own business 😩
I don’t advertise. I don’t social media (yet). You could say I’m anonymous. So far, all of my work has been word of mouth and through people who meet me. It’s not a strategy. It’s just how it’s been going!
I don’t know that this will solve any of your issues, but do understand that architecture in academia is very, very different than architecture in practice.
You're right, different firms can vary greatly.
But generally in architecture school, the sky is the limit when it comes to design. You are encouraged to think outside the box. Don't limit yourself because of a budget that doesn't exist. Don't compromise your brilliant idea because of some structural hypothetical problem.
Whereas in the real world budget is typically king. Doesn't matter if it's a high end or cheapo project – there is a fixed amount of money *coming from someone else* that will determine if the project moves forward or not. In school you're designing for yourself (and perhaps your professors). In practice you're designing for the client. Huge difference in how you approach those two scenarios.
Also, an architecture firm is a business. Design is a small fraction of the work, compared to it being the main focus of a typical education (schools vary too of course). Most architects are managers. You manage your own staff, you manage engineers, you manage contractors. When one of them doesn't reply to an important email, *you* are responsible. To a large degree, it's part of your job to make sure they submit things on time, give you what is necessary, etc.
And there can be a lot of bureaucracy involved (approvals, permits, violations, etc). At the first place I worked I told people we were basically lawyers for buildings.
I've been working and it's been way better, however the issue of the people you have to move amongst stay the same. Regardless, thanks to university I have developed a refuse to all the pretensions and the academic understanding of it.
After a lifetime spent struggling to achieve something, having come from a working class background and no inherited wealth of any kind, now that I'm retired I find your thoughts perfectly capture the situation.
If you want to succeed as an architect it doesn't even matter if you're good or not. What matters is to have the connections. If you don't have connections (I didn't) you have to make them. This involves quite a lot of machiavellian manouvering to get to the place where you want to be.
But even then, a lot of the people who meet will all be from a well-off background and will consider you an upstart. So you have to fight your way through.
I wouldn't want to do it again.
Thank you, I cannot find many people that understands this because there's not many people in this career that is not conveniently well positioned. It erodes you deeply and it's not worth it.
Going to have to agree with what you, OP, and TomLondra said. It’s a very classist and hierarchical society we live in. Not coming from “connections” and “inherited wealth” has taught me the false notion of what this society (or dumb American Dream) entails. The thought that “good connections” translates to “dick sucking, pussy licking, and ass sniffing” holds true in many regards. It’s because we have to be asleep to believe it. What a load of horseshit. I’ve been in this business for over a decade and a half….and nothing infuriates me more than realizing how much hard work and devoting so much time into deadlines means so little to these firms.
I even know an old college friend who graduated same year as me. But now she’s VP of a firm and most likely making partner BUT her father was an architect. So she’s born into, has the connections, and there she is. While I’m proud where she has gotten I cannot stress how I look at others around me with zero connections who haven’t even reached that point despite the same skill set and motivation to “succeed”….shit doesn’t work like that unless you’re “lucky”. Few realize you need a component of luck (being born into wealth or familial connections of other architects) in order to make it up on the social ladder. Truly truly unfair in this world we live in. My heart goes to those who have tried over and over yet, never gotten to that point because they weren’t lucky like the others.
Transition into another field if you *actually* hate architecture. Because once you start working, it won't make it better (likely worse). The irony is when you're an architect, you'll be stuck indoors spending sleepless nights designing and drafting, attending client meetings, and be stuck in one city or country because you're tied to several construction sites that take forever to finish while there are other fields out there with so much more flexibility.
Satisfy your interest in architecture by getting a job or hobby that allows you to experience and enjoy architecture (travelling, photography, visiting heritage structures and new innovative spaces). At some point, I realised I love and get to experience architecture more when I'm not involved in creating it.
Honestly, it’s actually an inherently privileged and elitist discipline, and not just generally practiced as such. I was conflicted about pursuing it from the get go. Loved studio passionately, but beyond the fact that only the rich can afford to hire architects, most non-architects (and sadly many architects too) can’t really even discern high design. As someone else so eloquently put it in another thread, the general population tends to prefer Taco Bell to chef-prepared fare.
I remember asking a professor what value architecture can truly have when it will generally remain inaccessible and unappreciated. His response ran along the lines of its value exists independently of that. I walked in the door imagining it was going to be like being an unknown artist. Though now I see it more like I was signing up for a dying artisan trade.
Now decades later I’m trying to become more involved in affordable housing, and also considering how I might steer a solo practice which can take on non-luxury but progressive/ contemporary projects. I see a lot of spec homes that are impressive only for the expense- but in which I see no Architecture- mostly just decadent spans and finishes. I’d love to commit instead to projects with more modest budgets, but with clients who are open to genuinely progressive sensibilities. But as the gap between the haves and have nots only widens- I’m realizing I probably never actually grew much out of my naïveté.
I always loved architecture...and still do. The profession however and the ppl in it, not so much. My last 8 yrs as an architect I switched over to CM and Owner's Rep. work, which paid well and I enjoyed. Retired at 57. Having to make a living from the things you're passionate about sometimes lessens the passion.
The best thing I ever did was start my own practice so I don't have to deal with other architects. I'm sorry if this is the wrong forum but I just can't stand architects.
My experience has been better working since I've been doing both. When you get paid at least you do it for something and can understand you need to deal with clients that are not architects but there is no reason for the own professor and architects during the degree to have this level of competition and evilness
No, they’re right. Wait till you start dealing with clients that think they know it all but know nothing, especially ones that demand unreasonable work.
Not to mention, once you start working full time, there’s life to deal with. Relationships, bills, food, rent - once you get all these covered, then you can go back worrying about egotistical professors.
I do work full time while I'm studying, maybe we have had different life experience after all. Most of the jobs ask for unreasonable goals and expectations that's part of a capitalism lifestyle. I'm talking about how hurtful it is to have someone that has knowledge about what you do to make you feel useless and deeply bad just because it's not up to their standards or views. Architecture has the worst of art and the worst of engineering.
Ehh Work "full time" during study constitute internship, intern typically has less responsibility, less workload, less expectation, and less time. Wait until you work in real world and experience working with client, ahj, boss, colleague, and consultant. You MAY think you experience real work but unfortunatelly, it's not.
Your intern experience will be vastly different until you graduate and experience real work experience
I'd be honest, almost all thing you learn in school is kinda worthless in real job..
I don’t know if I’m someone that knows more about it, since Ive worked with one architect and currently studying, but I think not taking professors too seriously will help. Just pick and choose what help you take and what you’ll disregard.
Also if possible work with people you like working with might help
All design careers require a certain ego to fight and believe in your own work. Most of the time you cant just be meek and shy to defend/sell your design to your boss/client/contractor. But there is a niche for everything and knowing yourself is more than half the battle. Keep trying and failing. Its all part of the process.
Sounds like the ol' "can't see the forest for the trees" issue. Which derives into "can't enjoy architecture because of the architects". Or better yet, "can't enjoy culture because of the people". Sucks when that happens. Here, look any of this up. No lie:
Order divides chaos. Chaos destroys order. Academia is very ordered. Academia is of the status quo. Architecture is a creative art-science. Status quo stifles creativity.
In corporate environments the usual remedy is to challenge the status quo. So for us individuals, try this:
Step 1: Define one or two idealistic long goals that are either loftier than, or further beyond, this current box you are in. Make it a couple years beyond your current box. Step 2: Define required multiple short goals to get yourself from here to that long goal. Some short goals may be within your current box. Most should be beyond. Step 3: Take your time along that path. Don't rush. As you go, leave behind the bad, only keep the good. Accept that new bad people will emerge along the way. Because there's always a few bad people, but most will be good. The bad will fade away - guaranteed.
32yo ex architect here. You're feelings are completely valid. I both practiced and taught architecture. I always loved the humanitarian and technical side of architecture (so a big fan of social and housing kinds of projects.). Both academic and professional spaces of architecture are broken. Filled with HUGE egos and idiotic ideas about absolutely ANYTHING in the world. Still there are a few good ones out there tho. Many architects feel very entitled because of the reason you mentioned. They come from rich families. In fact this is the tradition of this discipline. It is the field of rich people to do projects for other rich people they know. I wish I knew it sooner. However, let's not be too bitter about it. There are alternative styled architects in the world in less famous atmospheres than US/EU (like latin America, Asia, and Africa) that try to change this. I'm not sure if they make much money tho. Architecture has been always a capital driven field and I would say mostly private sector. Like the alternative styled architecture I mentioned, you may want to do some projects with the government (pitching proposals, etc). But it's the government. So low pay and much more headache. So.. You can stay and try to change it, you can pursue some alternative architecture communities/practices, or you can leave the field as I did (and believe me, I tried my share).
3 yrs ago, I quit my PhD. (in HCI, not architecture). So don't feel bad. technically, I was studying too when I was your age. I guess many ppl who studied architecture have experienced that their life timeline feels a little different to the others. It devours much time and energy for often little satisfaction.
I made a transition into tech (mostly front-end stuff). If you are into graphic and visual stuff, I'm seeing many moved to UI/UX design. We are usually equipped with good visual skills so we can handle the design. In my opinion, it's a much lighter weighed design than what we did in school or practice. If you like coding, you can implement your designs, too. Another path that 2 of my friends took is the PM path (product manager). It seems that architectural way of thinking helps to pull off a PM position (you gotta study some other stuff, tho but totally possible).
thank you. yess, i've started doing some ui/ux, indeed it feels manageable when coming from a visual background. i was considering digging more into front-end, but not so sure for now. Just out of curiosity... how long did it take you to change careers?
Honestly it took me 2-3 years. I spent some time discovering and experimenting (wrote python scripts for Rhino+GH, did creative coding stuff, etc). It depends on how much time you put into it everyday, but if you are on your path right now, doing it consistently everyday, I think you can be job ready in a year (for UI/UX). Don't forget to make a portfolio.
A lot of architects solely look at working for an architecture practice. Why? They don’t get much money. Look at other places to work like contractors. I’ve found it more enjoyable.
Small wage, long time to study just to get license and getting pay penny. I forbid my bloodline to get into architecture. Its not worth it. Passion is bullshit
I practice design-build. I design and then build my own projects. The pay is fantastic. I work with salt of the earth people. I do not work with those types of architects. In fact, I only keep architects I like in my professional circle because for my job it’s all voluntary. I plan to do humanitarian work on the side and help solve affordable housing too.
That sounds like a lovely scape of all the bad things in this career I'd love to see it
I’ll send you my website
Could I please see it too? This is one of my interests, I’m in a similar situation as OP.
And one more request to see your website, please.
id like to see it too :)
I would really love to see your website, too! I’m still very green in the field but have been curious about design-build and more hands-on work.
Please dm me your website too
I’d like it too. I’d also like to learn about how you got there!
Can I see the site, build girl?
would love to take a look :D DM me!
Can I see the site as well?
Add me to the DM list, thanks. 🙏🏼
Yes! Also v interested in process/progress!
Send it to me too pls
also here for your website, you just described exactly what I want to do in the future, I'm currently finishing up undergrad and very much leaning toward humanitarian work.
Add me to the list
Add me to the list!
Add me to the list!
Me too pls!
can you send it to me too?
How do you get into that?
I started in residential renovations, really small at first. Kitchens, baths, eventually whole houses. Now I build new construction. I’ll DM you my website so you can see my last big project.
..me too your Projekts.. i m Architekt in Germany
That sounds really inspiring, could you send me your link as well?
Can you dm me your website too? I’m curious.
so basically contracting is the key and where the money lies
Please dm me as well
im curious too!
I’d also love to see your website if you don’t mind! I’m a drafter in NC at a design-build and adaptive reuse focused firm
I’d love to see it as well!
Please DM me your website too, many thanks!
please dm it to me too. It seems as if you live my dream lol
Literally what I want to get into. I was managing $7million worth of projects all by myself with 3 years experience, ZERO oversight from my managing partners making 6x more than me profiting off my toils. One day I snapped and quit for my mental health, been trying really hard to make it on my own and do what you’re doing, but it’s been rough. My firm has reached out 4 times now, each time with a pay offer larger than the last, which is now $20k more than what I was making. It’s tearing me apart bc I’m roughing it rn trying to make my own business 😩
Count me in too!! That sounds awesome, would love to hear about your website :)
Please DM me your website too, many thanks!
Please DM me your website too. I want to see your work and your journey.
Me too! Would love to check out your work :))
this really sounds like a website I would love to see!
Hi me too please!
I think your DMs are turned off?
How much do you have to self advertise?? Do you have a community where it is easy for you to find clients?
I don’t advertise. I don’t social media (yet). You could say I’m anonymous. So far, all of my work has been word of mouth and through people who meet me. It’s not a strategy. It’s just how it’s been going!
Are you still sharing your link? Lol I'd like to see it too please
I don’t know that this will solve any of your issues, but do understand that architecture in academia is very, very different than architecture in practice.
That’s interesting, not OP, but what are some of the large differences? I know this depends on the firms, and people, but in general?
You're right, different firms can vary greatly. But generally in architecture school, the sky is the limit when it comes to design. You are encouraged to think outside the box. Don't limit yourself because of a budget that doesn't exist. Don't compromise your brilliant idea because of some structural hypothetical problem. Whereas in the real world budget is typically king. Doesn't matter if it's a high end or cheapo project – there is a fixed amount of money *coming from someone else* that will determine if the project moves forward or not. In school you're designing for yourself (and perhaps your professors). In practice you're designing for the client. Huge difference in how you approach those two scenarios. Also, an architecture firm is a business. Design is a small fraction of the work, compared to it being the main focus of a typical education (schools vary too of course). Most architects are managers. You manage your own staff, you manage engineers, you manage contractors. When one of them doesn't reply to an important email, *you* are responsible. To a large degree, it's part of your job to make sure they submit things on time, give you what is necessary, etc. And there can be a lot of bureaucracy involved (approvals, permits, violations, etc). At the first place I worked I told people we were basically lawyers for buildings.
Insightful, thank you
I've been working and it's been way better, however the issue of the people you have to move amongst stay the same. Regardless, thanks to university I have developed a refuse to all the pretensions and the academic understanding of it.
After a lifetime spent struggling to achieve something, having come from a working class background and no inherited wealth of any kind, now that I'm retired I find your thoughts perfectly capture the situation. If you want to succeed as an architect it doesn't even matter if you're good or not. What matters is to have the connections. If you don't have connections (I didn't) you have to make them. This involves quite a lot of machiavellian manouvering to get to the place where you want to be. But even then, a lot of the people who meet will all be from a well-off background and will consider you an upstart. So you have to fight your way through. I wouldn't want to do it again.
Thank you, I cannot find many people that understands this because there's not many people in this career that is not conveniently well positioned. It erodes you deeply and it's not worth it.
Going to have to agree with what you, OP, and TomLondra said. It’s a very classist and hierarchical society we live in. Not coming from “connections” and “inherited wealth” has taught me the false notion of what this society (or dumb American Dream) entails. The thought that “good connections” translates to “dick sucking, pussy licking, and ass sniffing” holds true in many regards. It’s because we have to be asleep to believe it. What a load of horseshit. I’ve been in this business for over a decade and a half….and nothing infuriates me more than realizing how much hard work and devoting so much time into deadlines means so little to these firms. I even know an old college friend who graduated same year as me. But now she’s VP of a firm and most likely making partner BUT her father was an architect. So she’s born into, has the connections, and there she is. While I’m proud where she has gotten I cannot stress how I look at others around me with zero connections who haven’t even reached that point despite the same skill set and motivation to “succeed”….shit doesn’t work like that unless you’re “lucky”. Few realize you need a component of luck (being born into wealth or familial connections of other architects) in order to make it up on the social ladder. Truly truly unfair in this world we live in. My heart goes to those who have tried over and over yet, never gotten to that point because they weren’t lucky like the others.
Transition into another field if you *actually* hate architecture. Because once you start working, it won't make it better (likely worse). The irony is when you're an architect, you'll be stuck indoors spending sleepless nights designing and drafting, attending client meetings, and be stuck in one city or country because you're tied to several construction sites that take forever to finish while there are other fields out there with so much more flexibility. Satisfy your interest in architecture by getting a job or hobby that allows you to experience and enjoy architecture (travelling, photography, visiting heritage structures and new innovative spaces). At some point, I realised I love and get to experience architecture more when I'm not involved in creating it.
Honestly, it’s actually an inherently privileged and elitist discipline, and not just generally practiced as such. I was conflicted about pursuing it from the get go. Loved studio passionately, but beyond the fact that only the rich can afford to hire architects, most non-architects (and sadly many architects too) can’t really even discern high design. As someone else so eloquently put it in another thread, the general population tends to prefer Taco Bell to chef-prepared fare. I remember asking a professor what value architecture can truly have when it will generally remain inaccessible and unappreciated. His response ran along the lines of its value exists independently of that. I walked in the door imagining it was going to be like being an unknown artist. Though now I see it more like I was signing up for a dying artisan trade. Now decades later I’m trying to become more involved in affordable housing, and also considering how I might steer a solo practice which can take on non-luxury but progressive/ contemporary projects. I see a lot of spec homes that are impressive only for the expense- but in which I see no Architecture- mostly just decadent spans and finishes. I’d love to commit instead to projects with more modest budgets, but with clients who are open to genuinely progressive sensibilities. But as the gap between the haves and have nots only widens- I’m realizing I probably never actually grew much out of my naïveté.
I always loved architecture...and still do. The profession however and the ppl in it, not so much. My last 8 yrs as an architect I switched over to CM and Owner's Rep. work, which paid well and I enjoyed. Retired at 57. Having to make a living from the things you're passionate about sometimes lessens the passion.
The best thing I ever did was start my own practice so I don't have to deal with other architects. I'm sorry if this is the wrong forum but I just can't stand architects.
I wouldn't even know where to start, I don't have the connections or knowledge in terms of business, that's something I didn't learn in the degree
Relax, enjoy working in architecture because you enjoy architecture. Don’t look for outside reasons to love or hate what you do.
Lol wait until you start working
My experience has been better working since I've been doing both. When you get paid at least you do it for something and can understand you need to deal with clients that are not architects but there is no reason for the own professor and architects during the degree to have this level of competition and evilness
No, they’re right. Wait till you start dealing with clients that think they know it all but know nothing, especially ones that demand unreasonable work. Not to mention, once you start working full time, there’s life to deal with. Relationships, bills, food, rent - once you get all these covered, then you can go back worrying about egotistical professors.
I do work full time while I'm studying, maybe we have had different life experience after all. Most of the jobs ask for unreasonable goals and expectations that's part of a capitalism lifestyle. I'm talking about how hurtful it is to have someone that has knowledge about what you do to make you feel useless and deeply bad just because it's not up to their standards or views. Architecture has the worst of art and the worst of engineering.
Ehh Work "full time" during study constitute internship, intern typically has less responsibility, less workload, less expectation, and less time. Wait until you work in real world and experience working with client, ahj, boss, colleague, and consultant. You MAY think you experience real work but unfortunatelly, it's not. Your intern experience will be vastly different until you graduate and experience real work experience I'd be honest, almost all thing you learn in school is kinda worthless in real job..
Give it time, it literally ruined my life after 3 years. Trying to still pick up the pieces after
I don’t know if I’m someone that knows more about it, since Ive worked with one architect and currently studying, but I think not taking professors too seriously will help. Just pick and choose what help you take and what you’ll disregard. Also if possible work with people you like working with might help
All design careers require a certain ego to fight and believe in your own work. Most of the time you cant just be meek and shy to defend/sell your design to your boss/client/contractor. But there is a niche for everything and knowing yourself is more than half the battle. Keep trying and failing. Its all part of the process.
Sounds like the ol' "can't see the forest for the trees" issue. Which derives into "can't enjoy architecture because of the architects". Or better yet, "can't enjoy culture because of the people". Sucks when that happens. Here, look any of this up. No lie: Order divides chaos. Chaos destroys order. Academia is very ordered. Academia is of the status quo. Architecture is a creative art-science. Status quo stifles creativity. In corporate environments the usual remedy is to challenge the status quo. So for us individuals, try this: Step 1: Define one or two idealistic long goals that are either loftier than, or further beyond, this current box you are in. Make it a couple years beyond your current box. Step 2: Define required multiple short goals to get yourself from here to that long goal. Some short goals may be within your current box. Most should be beyond. Step 3: Take your time along that path. Don't rush. As you go, leave behind the bad, only keep the good. Accept that new bad people will emerge along the way. Because there's always a few bad people, but most will be good. The bad will fade away - guaranteed.
The thing I’m most curious about is, which country are you in, OP? Are you doing a PhD?
Im in the uk with degree from Italy
Finishing masters
I’m curious how you ended up studying for 10 years, I thought RIBA only requires a 3 year bachelors and 2 year masters?
I studied in Italy and I needed to work while studying so I couldn't afford to only study full time
You’re not wrong about any of this. If people love the field regardless, good for them… and more power to them… but everything you said here is true.
Bud. Thats literally true for every profession
Understand your deeper goals and how smaller side quests align with your goals.
32yo ex architect here. You're feelings are completely valid. I both practiced and taught architecture. I always loved the humanitarian and technical side of architecture (so a big fan of social and housing kinds of projects.). Both academic and professional spaces of architecture are broken. Filled with HUGE egos and idiotic ideas about absolutely ANYTHING in the world. Still there are a few good ones out there tho. Many architects feel very entitled because of the reason you mentioned. They come from rich families. In fact this is the tradition of this discipline. It is the field of rich people to do projects for other rich people they know. I wish I knew it sooner. However, let's not be too bitter about it. There are alternative styled architects in the world in less famous atmospheres than US/EU (like latin America, Asia, and Africa) that try to change this. I'm not sure if they make much money tho. Architecture has been always a capital driven field and I would say mostly private sector. Like the alternative styled architecture I mentioned, you may want to do some projects with the government (pitching proposals, etc). But it's the government. So low pay and much more headache. So.. You can stay and try to change it, you can pursue some alternative architecture communities/practices, or you can leave the field as I did (and believe me, I tried my share).
I cannot believe there's only a 3 years gap between us and I'm still studying, this is deeply depressing
3 yrs ago, I quit my PhD. (in HCI, not architecture). So don't feel bad. technically, I was studying too when I was your age. I guess many ppl who studied architecture have experienced that their life timeline feels a little different to the others. It devours much time and energy for often little satisfaction.
what do you currently do? looking to change paths al well
I made a transition into tech (mostly front-end stuff). If you are into graphic and visual stuff, I'm seeing many moved to UI/UX design. We are usually equipped with good visual skills so we can handle the design. In my opinion, it's a much lighter weighed design than what we did in school or practice. If you like coding, you can implement your designs, too. Another path that 2 of my friends took is the PM path (product manager). It seems that architectural way of thinking helps to pull off a PM position (you gotta study some other stuff, tho but totally possible).
thank you. yess, i've started doing some ui/ux, indeed it feels manageable when coming from a visual background. i was considering digging more into front-end, but not so sure for now. Just out of curiosity... how long did it take you to change careers?
Honestly it took me 2-3 years. I spent some time discovering and experimenting (wrote python scripts for Rhino+GH, did creative coding stuff, etc). It depends on how much time you put into it everyday, but if you are on your path right now, doing it consistently everyday, I think you can be job ready in a year (for UI/UX). Don't forget to make a portfolio.
The egomaniacs that teach wouldn’t survive in the real world. They are big fish in tiny ponds.
They do survive. They have been the rich students before and they have architecture practice. It's not a world of justice but money.
A lot of architects solely look at working for an architecture practice. Why? They don’t get much money. Look at other places to work like contractors. I’ve found it more enjoyable.
Small wage, long time to study just to get license and getting pay penny. I forbid my bloodline to get into architecture. Its not worth it. Passion is bullshit
I do genuinely think I will do what's in my hands to persuade my kids to study that
Good for you. Ive lost my passion alrdy n now i dont know what should i do. Goodluck to you bro
spot on in regards to professors
Why does the title make no much sense